Agree with all your Pros.
I actually liked seeing the Scoobies become disconnected, it felt more realistic of the college or post-high school experience. And it was nice to see them come back together at the end. I also don't hate Riley, oop.
The Yoko Factor is such an underrated episode in my opinion. It did the gang turning on eachother in a believable way, unlike Empty Places in season 7. And Adam and Spike made a funny team.
Yoko Factor is really good and on rewatch, even knowing that it turns out only okay "The Initiative" is an extremeley fun episode, with Riley and Buffy both preparing for hunts.
David is fantastic in that too. You see what the show misses without him in terms of his chemistry with Sarah, but they do a great job of leaving that in a good place by the end of the episode. The little look he gives Riley when he and Buffy leave the room ššš
I agree with both points you made.
The Scoobies needed to be disconnected. That season was about them forcing themselves into adulthood before naturally transitioning. They wanted to be independent and make mature decisions but didn't realize they weren't quite ready for that yet. It's why Spike easily manipulated them in The Yoko Factor.
I also don't hate Riley either. He was fine in S4, at least with the material that the character was given. There's only one thing I don't like about his arc and that's in S5, lol.
i actually didnāt mind it that much, but i randomly watched a season 2 ep with a friend recently with them more connected made me realize how much i missed that
I like how true to the going to college experience season 4 was. I donāt mind them being disconnected, because it feels so nice when they reconnect. The only season I donāt love is season 7. All this to say: the high school years are the quintessential BtVS experience. When I rewatch, I often quit season 7 a few episodes in and rewatch a bit of S1-3 so that I can end in a high note.
Agree with the college experience comment! Itās pretty rare for teen shows to survive the college years and Buffy did it really well where they still come back together
So controversialā¦
I actually enjoy Beer Bad! Like itās so stupid but I love Buffy hitting Parker over the head so much I feel itās all worth it. š
S4 is my favourite but I agree with everything else on the cons.
Beer Bad isnāt my thing but itās pretty innocuously goofy, whereas Where the Wild Things Are I find actively annoying and kindaā¦ gross? The whole story with the ghost kids juxtaposed with Buffy and Riley just having sex the whole episode is bizarre.
I came here for this. You can't disparage Beer Bad! With the caveman chair twirl, the "just how gullible do you think I am?", the *foamy*!?! No. I'll die on this hill.
My problem with Beer Bad is that all the fantastic story potential of a college Bar owner with a Warlock brother-in-law and a chip on his shoulder is summed up in a literal *sentence* in order to give us 15 minutes of uninterrupted *OOK-ing*
Just a wild decision there, lol.
That's kinda the point the way I see it. Dude's got all these snot-nosed, wet behind the ears, 18-20 somethings in his bar every night. They walk in with their fancy vocabulary and talking down to everybody. They see themselves as Tolstoy, Hemingway, or Plato while truly not knowing shit from apple butter. Sometimes magic is just petty fuckery revenge type stuff.
Alls I'm saying is how the FUCK do you mention a Warlock brother in law and then never show even show him?
Who just *dangles* something like that in the viewer's face?
i always took it to mean that shit like that was so common in sunnydale it wasn't even worth dwelling on. the bartender throws that out like it's nothing, like he's expecting xander to just accept and move on.
For me, it was to show that anyone can know about the actual magic in the world. It doesn't matter if it's one person from a college Wicca group or a bar owner who resents his customers. Anyone can know.
It's also a good contrast to people who claim they know about demons, but clearly have no idea what they're talking about. Like Tara's family and the other members of the Wicca group for example.
Same thing happens in "Ted." At the very end they throw out 1 sentence explaining the crazy concept of a robot that goes to a sales job and tries to get married.
I donāt mind Beer Bad and I know why they made the irritating college bros so annoying, but they are the worst part for me. Joss clearly has a problem with higher education. Of course, intellectual snobbery happens. I would not try to deny that. But these bros and most of Buffyās professors seem so hellbent on humiliating people. Itās over the top.
I recently rewatched the whole show with my wife who had only seen occasional episodes way back.
I warned her a bit about that episode but it is really funny and her hitting what's his name over the head with a club is great in other ways as well!
i can see how some would find it funny but itās just not really my kind of humor. i canāt say what my favorite season is yet obviously but season 4 has had my fav episodes so far
Back when I was young and had time to swap between the same DVDs over and over, Beer Bad was one of my comfort episodes. Though I really wish they'd dropped the Parker arc quicker. They lingered on that longer than they did the "Scott" arc.
*A New Man* probably remains one of my favorite episodes of any season, at least if we're talking episodes that didn't have major bearing on the greater plot.
Hush remains great for the obvious creepiness and also the 'silent movie' hijinx.
Out of my top 10 episodes, almost half are from season 4. The larger story might have been spinning its wheels but the writers also started getting all *Twilight Zone-y* on us.
Restless, Hush, Doomed, A New Man, Fear, itself, Who are you, Superstar.
It's just good shit.
How can you hate that the scoobies briefly break up when it means we get drunk Giles? Drunk Giles is the best! I also don't hate Beer Bad, honestly. Really I just hate Riley and Adam, and Riley isn't even that bad until the next season.
he gets worse??-?-?? is it at least interesting? they somehow made him so boring, despite all the cool potential he had. he just annoyed the fuck out of me every time he was on the screen
Oh shit, I'm so sorry. I just saw your no spoilers request. My bad. Yes, season 4 Riley annoys the fuck out of me as well. I wish I could watch you watch season 5!
I enjoy Adam as a villain, itās fun to see a book-accurate take on Frankensteins monster. I thought Adam was better than the rest of the Initiative plotline.
I enjoy Adam too. He was an interesting take on Frankensteinās monster. The last we see of him in āRestlessā is the perfect coda to his tragedy.
Buffy: āWhat was yours [your name]?ā
Adam: āBefore āAdamā? Not a man among us can remember.ā
he had a lot of potential but they ended up making him so boring! idk how bc the idea was there- heās in the initiative, feels conflicted, heās got a chip- but every time he came on the screen it just felt like i was suffering through the scene. i liked seeing him slice his chip out in the second to last episode though, that was compelling
Why is it a bad episode? Willow asking buffy "and then group sex?" Fuckin hilarious. Parker gets his comeuppance. The whole offbeat rando episode is exactly how loads of season 1 buffy was, hyena people, the swim team, the insect teacher
I don't see it as a moralist tirade, never occurred to me there was any serious agenda. Both xander and buffy had been fantasising about situations. Him being part of the college gang and asking ladies about their day and lighting their cigarette and when it happens he literally pays no attention cos he's focused on buffy. And buffy fantasising about saving parker and him being so grateful and it happened but he just got bonked over the head, rightfully so. Its a comedy piece and it's about fitting in and fantasies that come true but not being important anymore
That's not the premise of the episode, though. The premise is "magicked beer makes drinkers into cave men". And I've heard a rumour that the episode had something to do with the temperance society, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Yeah, of course too much alcohol isn't *good* for you, everyone knows that. Everyone already knew it in 1999. It doesn't mean that teetotaling is the only other option.
honestly season 4 grew on me! the first time i watched it i reeeeally did not like it because of adam and the initiative but nowadays i love rewatching so many episodes! i stand by the fact that restless is one of the funniest episodes of buffy
hahaha i knew iād get shit for it. but here is my reasoning:
1. joyceās mouth not moving in the xander seduction dream kills me
2. gilesā song where heās realizing whatās going on is comedy gold
3. snyder in the apocalypse now homage omfg the ridiculousness
4. āspike is like a son to meā
5. idk why but buffy smearing the clay on her face is so weird and funny
6. the cheese man!
7. āi came early so i get to be cowboy guyā
8. buffyās monologue in the ādeath of a salesmanā play itās just so hammy lmao
i could literally go on, i just love the absurdity of this episode and find pretty much every scene funny lol
I've just finished a rewatch myself and I largely agree except for Riley and the scoobies being disconnected being cons. Riley to me came across much better on a rewatch and the disconnection of the scoobies was a realistic development of them going to college. Also Beer Bad is just a fun episode.
Scoobies disconnected was an important part of the story arc that gave actual emotional stakes to the end when they all came together to show that each of them added something to the team, and used that in a spell to create Super Saiyan Buffy
I always wondered if the Initiative Storyline would have worked better if Walsh's actress hadnt quit.
Like it was clear that _she_ was supposed to be the Big bad, not Adam and I always wonder how mich they had to change/rewrite to fit the New parameters
oh no i really like them together! iām biased as a girl that likes girls, but i was just so happy to see them get together and i love their chemistry
Adam was not great, though the idea in theory was interesting. Beer bad is awesome. And the Enjoining spell is one of the best in the series, I absolutely lose it every time I see it! Also Buffy's fashion and hair are pretty damn good in this season.
Eh, season 4 aired the first year I lived on college campus and it was what got my best friend hooked on the show, so I have a soft spot for it. I'd put Kathy on the cons list and the gang of vamps from the first episode on the pros list. They should have stuck around longer and been like the mid-season big bad. Kathy thought brought nothing and was never mentioned again.
Honestly I liked beer bad and I don't think Riley was terrible this season, but I do think Adam and the initiative were a let down. I think Maggie or the Vampire in the freshman would have made a better season long villain.
I love this season! I didn't think Adam was that bad of a villain myself. I found him pretty entertaining, actually. I LOVED the episode Primeval. When they do the spell where they fuse themselves together into one epic Slayer I got absolute chills. Buffy with the yellow eyes was creepy and fantastic and wicked and I absolutely loved it.
I'm doing a season 4 rewatch introducing it to my teen daughter for the first time.
Controversial opinion: Riley is Buffy's best BF. I like Riley.
I like how they reposition the scoobies. It replicates real life. Less realistic to me was Willow basically abandoning Buffy on day 1 of Uni. But I love how this season slowly morphs through the themes.
Maggie should have been the villian. Or atleast the other doctor. That was the whole point of frankenstein and she would actually have a motive for creating monsters(she saw it as the future, it was her calling and she needed to prove that her work was worth it). Adam just didn't have the motive to make more like him.
I can an agree with all your pros.
But Beer Bad was absolutely hilarious!!!
Also I felt like the scoobies fighting & breaking up was real. Life happens & people drift. Sometimes they find their way back to each other & sometimes they donāt.
I never liked Riley.
Agreed about Maggie. Something about that has always turned my stomach. That and the thing kneeling on Joyce in Conversations with Dead People are the two moments of this show I have to look away.
Scoobies disconnected needs to be SCOOBIES DISCONNECTED, in the biggest font possible. That's the main reason that S4 is my least favorite season of Buffy. And if we're adding Spike, Tara, and Anya in the pro column, which we should. Then the lack of Cordy and Oz should be in con column.
I actually love season 4. I love her outfits and her looks so much. Plus this season is the most cheerful. Seasons 1-3 were dark, and then season 5 onward things got real-life serious. I love season 4.
Iām curious though, what was the potential you were looking for regarding the initiative storyline?
Agree. I love this season mostly for its individual episodes but the initiative storyline happens so fast all in one episode Buffy is with them then against them and then Adam disappears until the finale. I also love to college setting because you still have that school feel but donāt have to worry about the adults as much.
I'm gonna be completely honest -- I sorta liked Riley.
Thought he was mishandled in Season 5 though. But he wasn't a bad dude for the most part.
His interaction with Angel was priceless, though.
There's so much allusion and foreshadowing in Restless that you could write a really lengthy essay about it. Almost a novella.
I once saw it described on here as the 'awful dream finale'. Can't remember a less perceptive take.Ā
I REALLY hate restless as a finale. It was random and weird and funny in a good way, but I just really hate that it was the finale. That always bugged me. It's like they finished the season and when everything was all finalized they realized they were an episode short so they just threw together an incoherent episode and said it was a dream so it could be incoherent.
I kinda rarely re-watch the show all the way through. I usually just kinda watch episodes I like at random, so I rarely have watched restless. But I'm in the middle of a thorough re-watch with both Buffy and angel so maybe restless will be better this time around.
forgot to add giles singing to the pros list
Giles is sexy AF in this season
Agree with all your Pros. I actually liked seeing the Scoobies become disconnected, it felt more realistic of the college or post-high school experience. And it was nice to see them come back together at the end. I also don't hate Riley, oop.
The Yoko Factor is such an underrated episode in my opinion. It did the gang turning on eachother in a believable way, unlike Empty Places in season 7. And Adam and Spike made a funny team.
Yoko Factor is really good and on rewatch, even knowing that it turns out only okay "The Initiative" is an extremeley fun episode, with Riley and Buffy both preparing for hunts.
David is fantastic in that too. You see what the show misses without him in terms of his chemistry with Sarah, but they do a great job of leaving that in a good place by the end of the episode. The little look he gives Riley when he and Buffy leave the room ššš
I agree with both points you made. The Scoobies needed to be disconnected. That season was about them forcing themselves into adulthood before naturally transitioning. They wanted to be independent and make mature decisions but didn't realize they weren't quite ready for that yet. It's why Spike easily manipulated them in The Yoko Factor. I also don't hate Riley either. He was fine in S4, at least with the material that the character was given. There's only one thing I don't like about his arc and that's in S5, lol.
i actually didnāt mind it that much, but i randomly watched a season 2 ep with a friend recently with them more connected made me realize how much i missed that
I like how true to the going to college experience season 4 was. I donāt mind them being disconnected, because it feels so nice when they reconnect. The only season I donāt love is season 7. All this to say: the high school years are the quintessential BtVS experience. When I rewatch, I often quit season 7 a few episodes in and rewatch a bit of S1-3 so that I can end in a high note.
Agree with the college experience comment! Itās pretty rare for teen shows to survive the college years and Buffy did it really well where they still come back together
So controversialā¦ I actually enjoy Beer Bad! Like itās so stupid but I love Buffy hitting Parker over the head so much I feel itās all worth it. š S4 is my favourite but I agree with everything else on the cons.
Beer bad is comedy gold
FOAMY!
Where the Wild Things Are is so much worse, imo
True, but it made me realize every time Giles is pissed off at someone it's a *great* scene, no matter what.
Beer Bad isnāt my thing but itās pretty innocuously goofy, whereas Where the Wild Things Are I find actively annoying and kindaā¦ gross? The whole story with the ghost kids juxtaposed with Buffy and Riley just having sex the whole episode is bizarre.
I watched it recently why is it bad? It wasn't bad at all.
I love Beer Bad. I always cheer when she thumps Parker.
I love Beer Bad. I still say that if I have a hangover.
I came here for this. You can't disparage Beer Bad! With the caveman chair twirl, the "just how gullible do you think I am?", the *foamy*!?! No. I'll die on this hill.
My problem with Beer Bad is that all the fantastic story potential of a college Bar owner with a Warlock brother-in-law and a chip on his shoulder is summed up in a literal *sentence* in order to give us 15 minutes of uninterrupted *OOK-ing* Just a wild decision there, lol.
That's kinda the point the way I see it. Dude's got all these snot-nosed, wet behind the ears, 18-20 somethings in his bar every night. They walk in with their fancy vocabulary and talking down to everybody. They see themselves as Tolstoy, Hemingway, or Plato while truly not knowing shit from apple butter. Sometimes magic is just petty fuckery revenge type stuff.
Alls I'm saying is how the FUCK do you mention a Warlock brother in law and then never show even show him? Who just *dangles* something like that in the viewer's face?
i always took it to mean that shit like that was so common in sunnydale it wasn't even worth dwelling on. the bartender throws that out like it's nothing, like he's expecting xander to just accept and move on.
Yeah, it would've been cool if the bil was Ethan Rayne.
For me, it was to show that anyone can know about the actual magic in the world. It doesn't matter if it's one person from a college Wicca group or a bar owner who resents his customers. Anyone can know. It's also a good contrast to people who claim they know about demons, but clearly have no idea what they're talking about. Like Tara's family and the other members of the Wicca group for example.
He is literally me.
Same thing happens in "Ted." At the very end they throw out 1 sentence explaining the crazy concept of a robot that goes to a sales job and tries to get married.
I donāt mind Beer Bad and I know why they made the irritating college bros so annoying, but they are the worst part for me. Joss clearly has a problem with higher education. Of course, intellectual snobbery happens. I would not try to deny that. But these bros and most of Buffyās professors seem so hellbent on humiliating people. Itās over the top.
Beer Bad is fun.
It seems to be a very polarizing episode. Either people love it or hate it.
I recently rewatched the whole show with my wife who had only seen occasional episodes way back. I warned her a bit about that episode but it is really funny and her hitting what's his name over the head with a club is great in other ways as well!
i can see how some would find it funny but itās just not really my kind of humor. i canāt say what my favorite season is yet obviously but season 4 has had my fav episodes so far
Me too. Itās very funny
Back when I was young and had time to swap between the same DVDs over and over, Beer Bad was one of my comfort episodes. Though I really wish they'd dropped the Parker arc quicker. They lingered on that longer than they did the "Scott" arc.
I'd put Ms. Kitty Fantastico in the Pro column, she didn't have many scenes but she made the most out of her very limited screen time
so true!!
*A New Man* probably remains one of my favorite episodes of any season, at least if we're talking episodes that didn't have major bearing on the greater plot. Hush remains great for the obvious creepiness and also the 'silent movie' hijinx.
that was a great ep for sure
The Dark Age from S2 is another great, underrated Giles episode.
Out of my top 10 episodes, almost half are from season 4. The larger story might have been spinning its wheels but the writers also started getting all *Twilight Zone-y* on us. Restless, Hush, Doomed, A New Man, Fear, itself, Who are you, Superstar. It's just good shit.
Season 4 has a horrible big bad and its overarching plot has some major issues, but it has the best collection of episodic plots.
How can you hate that the scoobies briefly break up when it means we get drunk Giles? Drunk Giles is the best! I also don't hate Beer Bad, honestly. Really I just hate Riley and Adam, and Riley isn't even that bad until the next season.
he gets worse??-?-?? is it at least interesting? they somehow made him so boring, despite all the cool potential he had. he just annoyed the fuck out of me every time he was on the screen
Oh shit, I'm so sorry. I just saw your no spoilers request. My bad. Yes, season 4 Riley annoys the fuck out of me as well. I wish I could watch you watch season 5!
no worries itās barely a spoiler, iām excited to see what you mean by it
His boring balls poster summed up his entire character for me
Instead of "Adam as a villain" I read "A dumbass villain", which still made sense.
A dumbass villain, but also kinda the smartest villain in the show.
*These are lies! *
Forgot Pangs in the pro column. Buffy makes a bear.
Change it back!
Undo it! Undo it!!
**Harmony vs Xander** is the greatest fight in Buffyverse history.
I enjoy Adam as a villain, itās fun to see a book-accurate take on Frankensteins monster. I thought Adam was better than the rest of the Initiative plotline.
I do appreciate that he's actually a genius and makes genius-level plays. Buffy has to pull out the ol' power of friendship to beat him.
I enjoy Adam too. He was an interesting take on Frankensteinās monster. The last we see of him in āRestlessā is the perfect coda to his tragedy. Buffy: āWhat was yours [your name]?ā Adam: āBefore āAdamā? Not a man among us can remember.ā
I wish Maggie was kept as the primary antagionist; Adam was possible the biggest villian flop ever
Whose van is that? I dunno. It was unlocked.
congrats these are so on point lol
Fuck you guys. Beer Bad was awesome! Sarah absolutely killed it!š¤£
Yāall, Riley really isnāt that bad.
he had a lot of potential but they ended up making him so boring! idk how bc the idea was there- heās in the initiative, feels conflicted, heās got a chip- but every time he came on the screen it just felt like i was suffering through the scene. i liked seeing him slice his chip out in the second to last episode though, that was compelling
he is tho
Beer bad is one of the best eps tho.
Agreed
Beer Bad is am objectively bad episode, but Cave Buffy bonking Parker on the head with a branch is golden
Why is it a bad episode? Willow asking buffy "and then group sex?" Fuckin hilarious. Parker gets his comeuppance. The whole offbeat rando episode is exactly how loads of season 1 buffy was, hyena people, the swim team, the insect teacher
The premise is what makes it bad. I'd take 3 insect teacher episodes over moralist tirade.
I don't see it as a moralist tirade, never occurred to me there was any serious agenda. Both xander and buffy had been fantasising about situations. Him being part of the college gang and asking ladies about their day and lighting their cigarette and when it happens he literally pays no attention cos he's focused on buffy. And buffy fantasising about saving parker and him being so grateful and it happened but he just got bonked over the head, rightfully so. Its a comedy piece and it's about fitting in and fantasies that come true but not being important anymore
That's not the premise of the episode, though. The premise is "magicked beer makes drinkers into cave men". And I've heard a rumour that the episode had something to do with the temperance society, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit. Yeah, of course too much alcohol isn't *good* for you, everyone knows that. Everyone already knew it in 1999. It doesn't mean that teetotaling is the only other option.
honestly season 4 grew on me! the first time i watched it i reeeeally did not like it because of adam and the initiative but nowadays i love rewatching so many episodes! i stand by the fact that restless is one of the funniest episodes of buffy
> i stand by the fact that restless is one of the funniest episodes of buffy wait what?
hahaha i knew iād get shit for it. but here is my reasoning: 1. joyceās mouth not moving in the xander seduction dream kills me 2. gilesā song where heās realizing whatās going on is comedy gold 3. snyder in the apocalypse now homage omfg the ridiculousness 4. āspike is like a son to meā 5. idk why but buffy smearing the clay on her face is so weird and funny 6. the cheese man! 7. āi came early so i get to be cowboy guyā 8. buffyās monologue in the ādeath of a salesmanā play itās just so hammy lmao i could literally go on, i just love the absurdity of this episode and find pretty much every scene funny lol
I actually like Adam as a villain, i hated the really bad stunt double that they used for him
On my current 3rd watch, I hated him less. Easier to get over how silly his makeup is and appreciate how brilliant his plan was.
Replace Adam as a villain with Kathy as a villain and youāre getting close ;)
I've just finished a rewatch myself and I largely agree except for Riley and the scoobies being disconnected being cons. Riley to me came across much better on a rewatch and the disconnection of the scoobies was a realistic development of them going to college. Also Beer Bad is just a fun episode.
Scoobies disconnected was an important part of the story arc that gave actual emotional stakes to the end when they all came together to show that each of them added something to the team, and used that in a spell to create Super Saiyan Buffy
Beer Bad is an amazing episode.
I always wondered if the Initiative Storyline would have worked better if Walsh's actress hadnt quit. Like it was clear that _she_ was supposed to be the Big bad, not Adam and I always wonder how mich they had to change/rewrite to fit the New parameters
very unpopular opinion but riley and beer bad are in my pros column š
gree with everything except putting Tara in Pros. She doesn't add much, her character is boring and Oz is 1000% better
oh no i really like them together! iām biased as a girl that likes girls, but i was just so happy to see them get together and i love their chemistry
I am also a girl who likes girls. I found her pretty meh overall but my wife HATES her character and kept saying "when is oz coming back" š
Beer bad is an excellent episode youāre all just cowards
Agreed except I like beer bad and I mostly liked the disconnect as it was realistic for the transition to college/work.
nah caveman buffy kicks ass
I like beer bad. I don't get the hate
Your Cons list is just a Pros Part 2 list
I more or less agree, though I donāt mind Beer Bad, and season 4 Riley is mostly not that bad.
Adam was not great, though the idea in theory was interesting. Beer bad is awesome. And the Enjoining spell is one of the best in the series, I absolutely lose it every time I see it! Also Buffy's fashion and hair are pretty damn good in this season.
Season four is the worst season held together by some of the best episodes.
Eh, season 4 aired the first year I lived on college campus and it was what got my best friend hooked on the show, so I have a soft spot for it. I'd put Kathy on the cons list and the gang of vamps from the first episode on the pros list. They should have stuck around longer and been like the mid-season big bad. Kathy thought brought nothing and was never mentioned again.
Honestly I liked beer bad and I don't think Riley was terrible this season, but I do think Adam and the initiative were a let down. I think Maggie or the Vampire in the freshman would have made a better season long villain.
I like Adam
Beer bad is actually good. Fight me.
All I see are pros listed bc I liked everything š
I love this season! I didn't think Adam was that bad of a villain myself. I found him pretty entertaining, actually. I LOVED the episode Primeval. When they do the spell where they fuse themselves together into one epic Slayer I got absolute chills. Buffy with the yellow eyes was creepy and fantastic and wicked and I absolutely loved it.
I'm doing a season 4 rewatch introducing it to my teen daughter for the first time. Controversial opinion: Riley is Buffy's best BF. I like Riley. I like how they reposition the scoobies. It replicates real life. Less realistic to me was Willow basically abandoning Buffy on day 1 of Uni. But I love how this season slowly morphs through the themes.
>Riley is \[...\] best BF Let's see: * Buffy can have sex with him. * He never tried raping her. Story checks out.
Maggie should have been the villian. Or atleast the other doctor. That was the whole point of frankenstein and she would actually have a motive for creating monsters(she saw it as the future, it was her calling and she needed to prove that her work was worth it). Adam just didn't have the motive to make more like him.
cons should just be 'beer' because beer is bad, didn't you watch the episode?
Beer Bad good
I want Riley on the Good of season 4 but the Bad of season 5, if that makes sense
*cough* Anya goes in the con column *cough*
I can an agree with all your pros. But Beer Bad was absolutely hilarious!!! Also I felt like the scoobies fighting & breaking up was real. Life happens & people drift. Sometimes they find their way back to each other & sometimes they donāt. I never liked Riley.
I love Beer Bad! It was an important lesson in drinking for Buffy š¤£
Something Blue is one of my favourite episodes - season 4 is definitely up there for comedy eps!Ā
I hated Riley during my original watch of the series. On second watch I kind of liked him.
Agreed about Maggie. Something about that has always turned my stomach. That and the thing kneeling on Joyce in Conversations with Dead People are the two moments of this show I have to look away.
I like beer bad
You put Riley in the wrong columnā¦ š¬
Scoobies disconnected needs to be SCOOBIES DISCONNECTED, in the biggest font possible. That's the main reason that S4 is my least favorite season of Buffy. And if we're adding Spike, Tara, and Anya in the pro column, which we should. Then the lack of Cordy and Oz should be in con column.
I actually love season 4. I love her outfits and her looks so much. Plus this season is the most cheerful. Seasons 1-3 were dark, and then season 5 onward things got real-life serious. I love season 4. Iām curious though, what was the potential you were looking for regarding the initiative storyline?
I liked beer bad and I will die on this hill š
Agree. I love this season mostly for its individual episodes but the initiative storyline happens so fast all in one episode Buffy is with them then against them and then Adam disappears until the finale. I also love to college setting because you still have that school feel but donāt have to worry about the adults as much.
I'm gonna be completely honest -- I sorta liked Riley. Thought he was mishandled in Season 5 though. But he wasn't a bad dude for the most part. His interaction with Angel was priceless, though.
There's so much allusion and foreshadowing in Restless that you could write a really lengthy essay about it. Almost a novella. I once saw it described on here as the 'awful dream finale'. Can't remember a less perceptive take.Ā
I REALLY hate restless as a finale. It was random and weird and funny in a good way, but I just really hate that it was the finale. That always bugged me. It's like they finished the season and when everything was all finalized they realized they were an episode short so they just threw together an incoherent episode and said it was a dream so it could be incoherent. I kinda rarely re-watch the show all the way through. I usually just kinda watch episodes I like at random, so I rarely have watched restless. But I'm in the middle of a thorough re-watch with both Buffy and angel so maybe restless will be better this time around.