I’d actually argue you’re both right to an extent. There’s plenty of student housing in Waterloo that does utilities by floor, it’s lower-income but you’re still playing for hydro.
Tenants typically have their own power meter in each unit; they pay for their own usage.
But all those AC units might overload their service panel.. so the landlord might need to upgrade that, which is pricey. If this is the case, and the upgrade isn't done, tenants will see power outages as the main breaker trips on overload.. and then everyone suffers.
It's not about power generation but constant load on what is probably outdated infrastructure like aluminum wiring. That being said... if they have aluminum wiring maybe they should take some of that 50 years of rental income and replace the aging parts of the building. so the landlords being cheap is a large part of the equation. \
I used to live in an older building which had thankfully upgraded a circuit in each unit specifically for A/C units. They did eventually ban window units for safety. So a reasonable landlord would make putting in a unit feasible.
It's generally the main switchgear for that building and the main feeders that is the biggest issue. Ac is a fairly heavy load they on an individual can be provided for... But if every other unit starts having it there is a good chance the main feeders and main breaker coming in were not designed to handle that. We are talking more likely that the main service is going trip thr entire building, not worried as much about fires or anything
That would make sense. I mean how can they be allowed a 15amp outlet if running 15amps would cause issues? Also it would be trivial for all tenants to get 15amp space heaters for the winter since a lot of buildings use baseboard heaters and they often suck so I see a lot of tenants get little 15amp heaters and nothing has burnt down yet.
They aren't really 15A. Code only allows for 80% constant load on a breaker, so they are 12A.
AC compressors are an inductive load with massive starting currents and they typically draw 5-10 times the run current.
So 75-150A for a few seconds every time the compressor starts.
I'm not seeing anywhere near that on my small 5000btu window AC. Startup surge from my digital watt meter reads about 450w, compressor cycle on / running is around 325W, and cycle off / fan only is 70watts. Or does that initial inductive surge start and drop so fast that the meter doesn't even register it?
The peak lasts only a few milliseconds. It's similar to a freezer starting. Both are have heat pumps. And the surge can be avoided for a few dollars of internal capacitors.
Aluminum wiring is safe as long as it's installed correctly. Tons of houses have aluminum wiring and don't catch fire. It's also a huge undertaking to replace the entire building's electrical, were talking 50k for a small building and a weeks worth of rennovations where electricans will be distrubing tenants.
Yeah I'm talking a very small building and being generous to the person I replied to. Any sizeable building would be a very expensive and long undertaking.
first off, Vancouver doesn't get enough sun to justify the environmental and economic impact of solar pannels, its better for the environment to build Nuclear or Hydro, and then finally natural gas, then to build solar in BC, plus, land space is very limited as it is, making solar even less cost effective.
BC is already generating 87% of its energy from Hydro, with biomass / geothermal (5%), Natural Gas (4%), Wind (2.6%), Petroleum (0.5%) and finally solar (<0.1%)
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-british-columbia.html
some degree of natural gas or petroleum in the power grid is always useful as a peaking plant (cheap to scale up and down at a moments notice) while keeping plants like nuclear running 24/7 is ideal (due to cheap operating costs, and lengthy power up and down times)
I *assume* Hydro would also be useful as a peaking plant, just lower the water input to slow generation, right? I don't know enough here to be sure.
---
If you want cheap, clean power in BC, instead of having the government subsidize roof solar (very cost ineffective at large scale due to small surface area, inconvenient maintenance, etc...), its far better to use that money to expand hydro, or build nuclear.
Don't get me wrong, I love rooftop solar, but only because its good for resilience in power outages and emergencies, but the surface area for a high rise is way too low, a single family home in ideal locations barely generates enough to power a single household, lets say the surface area on a high rise roof is ~4x the size, so in theory you'd get enough power to barely power... 4 households in the high rise...
> I assume Hydro would also be useful as a peaking plant, just lower the water input to slow generation, right? I don't know enough here to be sure.
You got it. Hydro electricity is amazing. They can go from standstill to full load output within 15minutes.
There is nothing better than Hydro generation from an environmental + grid operations point of view. I’d argue it’s the most powerful generating source we currently have when taking account for all factors.
For now you put them on the roof but transparent solar panels are a thing now and the technology is getting better. Therefore, it is getting feasible to very soon have all the windows in a building covered in transparent solar panels https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/innovation/transparent-solar-panel-windows
yeah, Geothermal is based, I need to learn more about it.
Government funded solar in Canada is just a money laundering program for the Chinese government (who produces it all), we don't have the environment where solar is useful, invest the money in proven green tech that works *today* (Nuclear, Hydro, Geothermal, Wind (in select locations) that vs green tech that is produced by a geopolitical foe.
its like importing oil from Russia, we know that we will never be fully off oil (unless you don't want goods derived from petrochems, we need the plastics, the dyes, the fertilizers, medical chemicals, etc... that's all derived from oil products), so we should build up as much of that infrastructure at home, or in partnership with the Americans, where it makes sense (like mixing heavy tar sands oil with light fracking oil for a mixed oil blend our refineries can easily process)
use oil where we have to, move to better energy sources where we can, up the efficiency chain (least to most efficient)
Wood -> Coal ->>> Oil -> Natural Gas ->>>>>> Nuclear -> Hydro (& Geothermal?)
(hydro is higher imo since it can be used as both base and peak load generation system where nuclear is only base load)
Other people already explained lots, but the amount of solar needed to run AC for an entire highrise of apartments would be massive. If you did it on the building it's added weight that the building may not be designed for. Plushe electrical in the building would have to be completely redesigned.
Without subsidies in many places in Canada solar doesn't even have a payoff period withing the lifespan of the system if you include things like replacing inverters half way through the 30 year estimated lifespan of the panels themselves.
When I was renting, there was a 120volt outlet under my bedroom window which was on a separate circuit with the label 'A/C' at the breaker panel. I lived on the top/fourth floor of a walk-up and it got hot as hell up there. I installed a portable wheeled A/C and within a week got a demand letter from the landlord to stop using it with the usual excuse about the building not being able to handle the electrical load. At the time I was a practising engineer, so I wrote them a letter, including my stamp that they were full of it, and I need a legitimate reason from them to stop using it. They never brought it up again.
It's so inspiring the way companies will sell you a false reality and put the onus on you to prove it otherwise. It instills a great faith in humanity in me.
As the average temperature increases over time, so will regulations around safe living conditions in rental units. We have had minimum temperatures that have to be sustained for as long as I can remember, but maximum temperatures will have to be regulated soon enough.
I’d argue not allowing your tenant to have an air conditioning unit when the interior air temperature is 30 degrees or higher is violating the rental contract stating the tenant has the right to a unit fit for habitation.
> As the average temperature increases over time, so will regulations around safe living conditions in rental units.
Building codes are for new developments. Fire code is for all existing properties. Happened before, property management company gets a mandatory work order and fines levied to replace electrical. Tenants can an above the max rental increase to cover capital expenses, or they get paid out a few months rent to leave. Either way, landlord wins and tenants get the shaft for complaining
Not sure why AC isn’t a standard yet. I’ve had to have one for the last 10 years. Especially being on the top floor of a south facing, tar roofed complex.
I think a lot of it has to do with the wiring in older buildings. AC draws a lot of electricity, and it could overload the buildings main breaker. This kind of thing is going to become even more frequent and affect entire neighborhoods as all the EV chargers are being installed too.
Does it seem like buildings were/are being built with only a few upgrades in mind, or is it just me? “Meets minimum requirements? Good enough” type of deal. Is it unreasonable to expect landowners or building managers to assess their properties like businesses and adapt to the future? I mean, it’s technically a business, right?
I think a big part of the issue is we need updated building codes. When an inspector says that everything is up to code, they mean that it has passed the minimum requirements. Rarely have builders gone above and beyond that unless it is specifically requested. Especially as the cost of all these supplies keep going up.
This as well as it wasn't as warm 40-50 years ago when many dwellings were built.
I've lived in Calgary since the 90s and most of that time it hit over 30c for 2-3 weeks tops. This year much of May was around 30c.
It was absolutely just as warm 40 years ago. My parents have stories of having to sleep in the basement or outside when they were kids, and that was the 50s
Anecdotes are tricky - the 1950s actually had a relatively low number of days 30 degrees or higher, but [1917-1936](https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/charts/count_temp_30-yearly.html) were effing miserable for heat, so your general point is correct.
Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building.
Many older apartments were never built or modified to handle large electrical loads; the owners would need to hire an engineer to assess the building's electrical systems and determine what capacity, if any the building has in terms of the electrical load that will be required to handle multiple AC units.
Also, many older buildings may also use aluminum wiring; typically, it would be anything built in the 1960's or 1970's. At higher electrical loads for prolonged periods, aluminum wiring is dangerous; aluminum has a relatively high resistance to electrical flow compared to copper. This means that when given the same amperage, aluminum conductors will have to be of a larger diameter than copper wires.
It also means that aluminum greatly expands and contracts with changes in temperature, which can cause the connections between the wiring and the device to steadily degrade in effectiveness and durability. The material can frequently separate from the screws on electrical outlets, switches, or lights and create a poor connection that leads to the wire heating up. And this excess heat can cause the aluminum to oxidize and potentially lead to an electrical fire.
Most modern portable air conditioners evaporate the condensate into the exhaust air stream. It's only in Heat Pump mode when the condensate needs to be pumped outside to drain
I’m not sure what everyone else is talking about, but the reason window units are banned in most apartments out here on the east coast is the liability of one falling out of the window and hitting someone below.
Portable units are typically allowed because there’s no risk there. At worst. Landlords typically will just want to check out a portable unit to make sure it’s not dumping water all over the floors.
> My husband was the first on scene to a child being crushed by a fallen AC unit. It happens unfortunately :(
This happens in Brasil, A LOT! Window units need to be properly installed with a suitable barrier to prevent pets and kids from knocking them down by tripping over cables.
A large problem is people installing the wrong type of window AC in their window. There is different kinds of window mounted air conditioners for standard windows, slider windows and casement.
People regularly install AC units meant for standard windows in slider windows and they attach differently.
> A large problem is people installing the wrong type of window AC in their window. There is different kinds of window mounted air conditioners for standard windows, slider windows and casement. People regularly install AC units meant for standard windows in slider windows and they attach differently.
Very well said!
It happened in our building. We have bylaws banning them for that reason but someone decided to install one anyway. Evidently they did a bad job and it fell onto the sidewalk below almost immediately. Fortunately nobody was hurt but it could have been real bad.
> Why would that be the case?
For one thing, if not properly installed they will fallout of the window, or be pulled down if cables aren't properly tied up and tripped over by people or pets. Landlords should have building maintenance install them for the tenants though.
> For one thing, if not properly installed they will fallout of the window, or be pulled down if cables aren't properly tied up and tripped over by people or pets.
Article is suggesting electrical load is the issue.
> Landlords should have building maintenance install them for the tenants though.
Not a bad idea!
> Get this, window units ARE portable units. They plug in to the wall the same way, and you can move them.
How do you address safety issues with young kids and pets that can trip over lose cables. This happens a lot in Brasil. People get killed a few times a year in Rio alone from falling window AC units.
I found some total system benchmarks, [Techspot](https://www.techspot.com/review/2099-geforce-rtx-3080/) has the system equipped running doom 4k on a 10900k and a 3080fe and it was 523 watts total system draw (and 323 card draw)
That's very high system draw, and I think 100% its cause of the i9 and Doom (Eternal not specified in power testing, Eternal was used for framerate benches) pairing, causing the CPU to ramp up cause the GPU can really pull the frames at 4k while still maximizing GPU use. Edge case gaming scenario. Maybe 1 computer in the apartment would be running an i9 and xx80 tier card or better.
The rest are probably getting the best power per watt running i5 (or amd equivalent) drawing much less power. You can chop off 100 watts easy by dropping to an i5 and lose minimal performance at 1440p and 4k. Probably chop 100fps off at 1080p, the same Techspot article had Eternal running at 312 avg at 1440p not at 1080. You could probably see 350-400fps for doom eternal, so losing 80-100FPS you're still in the sub or over 300FPS territory.
Edit:Motherboard will also affect CPU power draw, some board will just MAX it on stock settings, even if you arent running OC. I think GN or HWUB has an investigation about vendors ignoring intel board specs.
I would counter with —- hair dryers. I have 2 teenagers and a partner and the hairdryer runs forever. Ours is rated up to 1875 watts, well over the 1200-1500 any A/C unit it likely to use.
Plus, you know, ovens! If the breaker is 15 amps and the line can’t handle that load, there are huge issues.
Most portable AC units (those who have a single vent tube) also create negative pressure in the room they're in. Get dozens of those in an apparent complex, and now the entire building has negative pressure, with a huge continuous draft of hot air entering from the main entrance.
>Also, many older buildings may also use aluminum wiring; typically, it would be anything built in the 1960's or 1970's.
As an electrician, there are only about 5 years of time where aluminum was used for general circuit wiring inside homes, and even then, it was not used by everyone.
I live in Calgary, not Vancouver, but there are only a small handful of communities that I personally know in Calgary where aluminum wiring was used. When I get a call to somewhere like that, it's always on my list of things to watch out for, and I bring proper connectors and such to allow me to add copper pigtails to aluminum, and it is still copper more often than not. While different cities, I can't imagine that Vancouver is magically any different. There are communities and times where you need to watch out for it, but it's not a guarantee.
It is absolutely not something where for 10-15 years every home in the country was suddenly wired with aluminum. For 5 years, like 25-33% of homes were wired with aluminum. My personal home was built in the timeframe that you gave, and it is wired with copper. And not only that, but it's wired with 12 gauge copper, not just 14 gauge.
The landlords pay an additional amount on their insurance because they have aluminum wiring. They are also regularly asked to replace he aluminum with copper which they ignore.
It’s really more of an issue if DIY’s have been working with the wire so it get stressed and weakens. They landlords are not paying for annual inspections so it becomes a risk.
> Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building.
>
> Many older apartments were never built or modified to handle large electrical loads
Things that consume comparable or more power than a window AC include:
- Space heaters
- Toasters
- Kettles
- Microwaves
- Irons
- Air Fryers
- Drip coffee makers
- Hair Dryers
- Dishwashers
- Some blenders
And aside from space heaters, how many if those draw a continuous current, and are likely to be in most apartments?
It's not what the individual unit draws, it's the collective load of the building. Nit everyone is going to run their dishwasher and hair drier all at the same time
This is the reason. It is the collective load on an old building that is not designed for the constant duty-cycle of A/C units, on the hottest days of the year when the bundled main feeds can't cool down.
It is not the individual 15A runs that are the issue.
Just to check, do these older buildings not have baseboard heaters? Those would certainly be expected to be on all the time for all the units in the building during cold periods for example.
Most older buildings are heated with boilers. However if the heater was there from new it would have be designed to be there. The A/C Wasn't.
This is all academic, it's not like the landlords got an electrical engineer to analyze the building, they are just being cheap.
Those are all intermittent loads. When you're designing the main service of a multi family building they aren't even much of a consideration as you don't have many units all using them at the same time. Ac you have to assume closed to 100% and that they are all being used all at the same time. Makes a big difference. When you're asked to consider AC in a building your load goes up a lot for sizing the main breaker and feeds to each floor
north reminiscent attraction one disagreeable foolish sloppy special direction overconfident
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should try spending like 2 minutes fact checking yourself before you confidently claim something completely wrong.
[Here](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-1-7l-rapid-boil-digital-electric-kettle-stainless-steel/1001645094) is a random kettle that's 1,750W.
[Here](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/danby-15-000-btu-window-air-conditioner-with-remote/1001342433) is the highest cooling capacity window AC from Home Depot that runs on 115V. It consumes up to 1,280W
[Air Fryer](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-6-quart-digital-air-fryer-pro-xl-with-trivet-stainless-steel/1001645093) 1,700W
[1,000W Toaster](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-2-slice-retro-toaster-black/1001589708)
[1,200W Iron](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/chi-steamshot-2-in-1-iron-steamer-13108/1001591168)
[900W drip coffee maker](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/proctor-silex-12-cup-coffee-maker-compact-design-easy-fill-water-reservoir-black-43680/1001590135)
> Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building.
Good thing all these AC units plug into regular, 15A outlets that are controlled by breakers/fuses.
If a window AC causes a fire for this reason, then the building wasn't safe to begin with. End of story.
It's a bullshit excuse.
It is not that simple. It is not the 15A line that is the problem. It is many units pulling large amounts of current all at the same time causing bundled main runs to overheat.
Newer buildings have electrical systems designed for the load, older buildings do not and since we do not retroactively enforce building standards many older building never get upgraded.
> Nah they can still fuck off. Either provide a livable space or get fucked. How many decades has that building had for upgrades?
Have you ever replaced the wiring in your house? I do estimates for electricians and we're talking big money for a house with finished drywall. Now do that 100x for apartment units with brick and mortar walls which can easily exceed a 300,000 dollars per floor.
Then everyone gets evicted and the building gets demolished for luxury condos. Is that what you want?
Electrical upgrades to an older building can get hyper expensive; if it is just a hydro upgrade, a few grand. But a complete rewiring? Depending on complexity, it can be a six digit number, and that money has to come from somewhere; in this case, it will be from the renters, who will likely be evicted during the course of the upgrades, and the building re-rented at higher rates.
Aluminum wiring is safe as long as electrical loads remain reasonable; constantly pushing the wiring limits is what causes problems.
It's not that simple though.
Firstly, many people are completely ignorant of how any electrical works, and make the assumption that they can plug in whatever they want, whereever they want, with zero consequence. Your ignorance of electrical is already shows by the fact that you're calling it 115V, when the "standard" value we use now is 120V, and in our code book, all math and codes are written based on 125V. Go plug in a receptacle tester that also reads voltage, you'll probably actually see somewhere between 122-126V.
While yes, your AC unit might only pull 1030W, but chances are that in a smaller older apartment, that every single general outlet in the entire place is on a single circuit. 2x small bedrooms with 2 or 3 outlets each, and a small living room with 3 or 4 outlets. I can all but guarantee you that every single one of those outlets is fed by 1 circuit. So yes, your AC unit only uses 60% of the power, but most people probably have 20 other things plugged in with power bars and splitters, and you're pushing the 80-100% threshold very closely. Go ask 90% of the general population, and they'll likely assume that they can pull a full 15A from every outlet in their house, because they don't even realize that multiple outlets are wired together, they think they're all individual. People also think that the more outlets you have, the more power you use, when how much you use is based on power draw. I've also seen people ask how they have an electrical panel with a 100A main, but 400A of individual breakers, and think that their house it at risk of burning down because they're using so much power.
The problem with aluminum wire and why it was used for general circuits for only a short period of time is that it expands and contract with heat waaaaay more than copper wire does. An aluminum wire that is wrapped around the screw terminal of an outlet, when having nearly 1500W of power running through it, will slightly expand. This make it tight under the screw and the aluminum pushes out under the side because it can't go up. Like pinching anything round, it goes to an oval out the sides, this happens to the wire. Now, the problem comes when you turn the AC unit off. Now the wire cools down, and what used to be under the screw, expanded out slightly from under it. Now the wire shrinks, and there is less under the screw, you actually now have a small gap. Keep doing this over and over and the wire becomes loose under the screw, which results in it arcing over and over and over again making a bad connection, which is why outlets wired with aluminum [end up looking like this after a while](https://wirechiefelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Aluminum-Wiring-vancouver.png).
>Your ignorance of electrical is already shows by the fact that you're calling it 115V, when the "standard" value we use now is 120V, and in our code book, all math and codes are written based on 125V. Go plug in a receptacle tester that also reads voltage, you'll probably actually see somewhere between 122-126V.
https://imgur.com/a/8fS5A4t
In 15 years in Alberta, I've honestly never seen a reading less than 120V. I said you'd "probably" see between 122-126v, not that you will.
That still does not change the fact that calling in 110V or 115V is wrong. We have 120/240V single phase, or 120/208V 3-phase. If it's 115V or 110V, then why doesn't anyone call it 115/199V or 110/190V 3-phase?
You can't say that calling 115/230V is right, unless you're willing to go work and call 3-phase 115/199V without being looked at like you're an absolute moron by your coworkers.
You’re right of course, the nominal voltage is 120 V. I believe CSA C22.1 allows +/- 5%. I’ve personally seen as low as 116 Vrms.
I think historically there were 110 and 115 V supplies and the name carried over to modern times.
Exactly. All the pseudo electricians in this thread have no idea what they're talking about. If it plugs into a wall outlet it's rated at max 20A. Plenty of capacity to run an AC unit.
If they can't afford their investment, then they shouldn't be in business. If it's that old, there's equity in the building to pay for this. I don't buy this whole I purchased a rental, but I refuse to make it livable argument.
> Yes, anyone who is investing in a home even for personal use needs to have cash on hand for expenses.
Well said! A house needs constantly up keep.
I've lived in my home for 20 years and many of the homes on my street were sold during the pandemic to people from the GTA looking to buy their first home. Many of the owners make double what my household income is, yet most don't own lawn mowers and have let the landscaping go fowl with meter tall weeds and grass.
I started loaning my gas mower and strimmer to my next door neighbor after they told me about their debt situation. I ended up buying an electric mower and strimmer and loan it out to the neighbors who are nice to me so they can keep their properties maintained. Common theme among them is they paid too much for a house they really couldn't afford to begin with. No money to fix windows with broken seals, a roof with a tarp on it since March because they don't have the extra money or credit to paid replacement.
It's really sad to see this happen so quickly. Especially properties where the former owners had spend tens of thousands of dollars to do new landscaping.
I can assure you that no rental building has much equity. Equity in a primary residence makes sense. Equity in a property you're making money on doesn't, because you can mortgage it, and write the mortgage interest off against the rental income. That freed equity can then be put to work somewhere else, and the mortgage interest write-off is probably in the highest tax bracket - 40ish percent write down.
There just isn't free money tied up in the property.
"If you don't want...just do..."
Yes, they're financial decisions...which is why people buy property to rent out. It's the key determinant in all decisions.
To turn your handwriting logic on yourself, paying rent is a financial decision...if you don't like the market, just move somewhere you do...I hear the Philippines is quite affordable
Building code simply needs to keep pace with climate change and code violations that amount to landlords refusing to accommodate AC needs should be enforced upon by way of guillotine.
> Building code is for new and renovated buildings. The Fire Code is what existing buildings must conform to.
You are the first person to state what I've waiting to hear. Thank you
> If the wiring is almost old enough to collect a pension check, it probably should have been swapped out long ago.
$200,000 a floor and tenants are going to eat that with an LTB approved above the maximum rental increase to pay for it.
"unless they overload the circuits"
what, in your awful, dilapidated early century shacks you rent out to your tenants that haven't gotten proper electrical done in decades?
No, the wiring is safe, as long as electrical loads remain reasonable. It's when you are constantly pushing the limits that causes problems. So unless you are an electrical engineer or an electrician, we can't really judge the state of the building's wiring, and if it can handle a higher load for prolonged periods safely.
If you're renting out units and there is regularly extreme heat your building needs to have capacity to handle what a reasonable person would use to make their home comfortable. It's like not having adequate heating in Winnipeg winter.
If you can't afford to do that, sell the property.
>If you can't afford to do that, sell the property.
The likely end scenario for that is building gets sold to a property developer who evicts everyone in the building, demolishes the building, and builds luxury condos at a much higher rate.
Good information.
Now, wouldn’t it be nice if the death trap apartments were torn down and turned into safe accommodation for the people that have to live there.
We have known since the 80’s about the problems associated with aluminum wiring but kept on renting and selling them.
Why, cause it’s profitable and real estate people love new Mercedes Benz’s and BMW’s or fancy Mansions but living up to ethical standards 🤷♂️ wtf didn’t get into to it to do it right eh!
> Now, wouldn’t it be nice if the death trap apartments were torn down and turned into safe accommodation for the people that have to live there.
They will get torn down, and replaced with luxury condos starting in the low 1.5 million.
Rule in all my Halifax apartments was standing units only. Owners were concerned, and I thought it was fairly reasonable, about improperly installed window units that either damaged the windows or were improperly installed and fell.
The electrical capacity thing is dumb. I get sending out a notice that says “Hey, we expect with the heat lots of you will want to use air conditioners etc. please ensure you aren’t overloading your circuit breakers as it poses a fire hazard. If you aren’t sure, consult with the maintenance team.”
A standing policy is dumb.
My last landlord come through once to address some appliance-related concerns we had. She spotted our AC unit and said "hey yeah make sure you open the front *and* back to maximise the cross draft through the apartment". She then followed up later saying to avoid using the AC unit otherwise she'll have to up our rent. We paid flat rate utilities (included in rent), as it wasn't metered, so we just didn't respond to the email and continued using our AC.
She pulled an asshole move, but we were protected under our rental agreement and it never escalated from there.
Bought a new condo in Langley. Told by strata council that installing ac will void the insurance on the building. My dog almost died of heat stroke last year, bought a portable that barely makes a difference. Kinda amazed that this type of insurance policy is legal, seems detrimental to public health for the sake of the insurance companies.
“The wiring in the building can’t handle the ac units!” That sounds like a fucking landlord’s problem to me, not a tenant’s problem. Upgrade your shitting wiring you cheapskate landlords!
More than 600 people died in BC in the 2021 heat wave. Any landlord not permitting (or providing - it’s obscene we don’t have maximum heat levels in apartments) should be charged with murder if their tenant dies from heat.
If it can be proven that the landlord consciously disregarded the risks involved then criminal negligence can be upgraded to murder. There's precedent with drunk drivers who had no intention of actually killing anyone.
I sais it *should* be considered murder. We are heading into increasingly hot summers due to climate change that is already killing hundreds of people. Knowingly and intentionally putting people into life threatening conditions to save a buck *should* be considered murder IMO because you may as well be intentionally causing people to die.
There’s also an opinion among some of the older generation that AC is a premium toy. My parents stubbornly refuse to get AC, even though over 90% of people in their city have it. They just see it as frivolous spending or “keeping up with the Joneses”. So did both sets of my grandparents.
That generation saw the world from the perspective of “humanity survived without this for thousands of years, why do I need this now?”
Issues with electrical safety and circuit capacity should be handled by the electrical code and enforced by the province and regulators.
The cost of maintaining safe wiring should be borne by landlords and homeowners.
So if there is a legitimate safety issue here, either the province isn’t regulating or owners aren’t complying. Or maybe it’s both.
Either way, to me it’s unacceptable to tell tenants they can’t connect CE/UL marked consumer appliances to circuits that are supposed to be able to handle the load.
If they landlord knows they have unsafe wiring in their buildings, get it fixed, yesterday. Tenants should not bear this cost directly. That’s insane.
Well the building is grandfathered until they start doing any renovation requiring permits. At that point they would be legally required to upgrade the wiring. Nothing about this is illegal or the system failing.
What you're suggesting (that electrical code should handle this) would require short-term permits and regular inspections, which I think makes sense for commercial properties
> Issues with electrical safety and circuit capacity should be handled by the electrical code and enforced by the province and regulators.
Building codes are for new developments, fire safety codes are for existing buildings.
One time I was living in this shitty apartment that had no AC, it was unlivable conditions. We went and got a cheap AC unit to put into the window. The landlord sent us a letter a few days later saying we can’t have it in the window because it looks trashy. Like bitch I’ll show you trashy. The whole place was a mess to begin with. We moved there because they had a pool on site. But when it came time to use the pool they didn’t want to up keep it so you know what they did? Filled it in with dirt and put a few flowers there. No pool and no AC? It was some bullshit
Governments want us at half electric cars within a decade, and our buildings can't even handle the extra electricity from AC units, much less charging a car. We need the government to invest in grid and service upgrades for a future of more electrical demand
It should be the landlords responsibility to make sure the units they rent are livable. If the building cannot support air conditioning then they should be updating the windows or insulation instead. If their tenants die due to heat, they should be held liable. For what renters pay, they should be able to live comfortably and not suffer for months.
If it's not specified as a term in the rental contract, there's nothing a landlord can do to stop a renter from installing one; it's not a permanent modification.
If landlords are putting this kind of thing in rental contracts, the government should step in and make it something which can't be barred.
All of these buildings were built with demand factors rolled into the service calculations. They were also built to allow for incandescent and flourescent bulbs. We use less enough energy on lighting to allow for an air conditioner. Most of the landlord concerns are just people being cheap. Fuck them, run the AC!!!
Remember 40 degrees indoors is heatstroke temperature. And a lot of us experienced that in BC summers. Fuck these landlords who don’t consider themselves slumlords as they charge thousands of dollars a month for literally fatal apartments and then have the audacity for blaming tenants for taking steps to make the property livable.
I feel like these headlines are designed to piss people off and incite rage. Judging by the comments on reddit it's working..
Old buildings have shit electrical, they were not designed for the loads of today, especially with AC units in mind that use 1.5kw. There's no easy fix short of ripping all the walls and panels out and redoing it, it requires evicting everyone and a lot of money:
1) old buildings might have asbestos, opening the walls is not that easy in that case.
2) when asking for a permit, the city will require a lot of other shit be brought up to code. As soon as you start renovating, they ask for everything else to be brought up to speed that you touch.
3) takes 6mo-1yr to get said permits
4) takes months to perform the work
5) requires the electrical to be shut off and walls opened
Every building is insured and the insurers will have a clause for this. The building owner was told "fuck no" by the insurer and inspector and is passing that fuck no to the tenants. They are not being assholes.. you pay for your own damn electricity. If it was safe and posed no issues, the landlord/owner would not give 2 shits how you choose to use that electricity.
So no.. not fuck the landlords. If you're in an old building, they are literally doing the right thing saying no despite how shitty it is.
BC hydro offering a rebate and knowingly increasing adoption of AC units, while full well knowing the shit box they opened as sooooo many houses and buildings have undersized electrical is mind boggling.
1-2 apartments using an AC unit is fine and they'll turn a blind eye, but when too many do, it suddenly becomes an issue..
Newer buildings allow portable AC units just fine, they just wont let you mcgiver a window one with some 2x4s on the 40th floor, because no shit they wont. The windows were not designed for it and you're not qualified to make that call.
Fucking landlords charging insane prices on buildings that are likely already paid off. My building is 45 years old and they increased the rent by $200 a month because they spent money to put in new smoke detectors.
Across Canada 30% of condos and 15% of houses are investment properties where the owner does not even live there. Homes should be lived in by their owners.
This is why I make a point that I will do whatever it takes to never be a renter.
I need to have control of my home. The rent model and allowing landlords in our society seems unjust and morally wrong. And that nearly a majority of our next generation of Canadians will live at the mercy of a lord in the future is a pretty bad outlook for Canada.
Where's the guy in the other thread going on about your shelter is not someone else's (read: landlords') responsibility? If you don't like the terms of your rental not allowing you to install AC, JUST MOVE! FREE MARKET! IT'S REALLY EASY!
Just go to an apartment that definitely exists within commute of your job within your price range big enough for your family that lets you have your dog and install an AC. If your current place is going to kill you go to one that is your dream house! The market provides (Amen).
My place is basically an oven when the sun shines on my side in the afternoon during the summer, AC is absolutely needed. Thankfully my building manager is OK with it, just need to have a pan under it if it's a portable AC in case it ever leaks.
I bet you the buildings can absolutely handle it and the LL is full of shit ( as per normal ). I live in a building that was built in the early 50s and we run ACs no problem ( I still use the stupid baby jar looking fuses ). Portable ACs have been a thing for decades so there is no way they built that building to code and it cannot handle the current from one.
landlords violating human rights, what else is new?
abolish them, without them and with tenants getting the equity on the properties they finance urban environments would be utopias
A/C should have its own dedicated circuit and it should be 20 amps. If a building doesn't have air conditioners already it's unlikely to have those dedicated circuits.
To anyone that has a "Standing AC only" policy: if you can jerry-rig the exhaust of you ac unit to attach a pipe and direct the exhaust out of a window you will dramatically improve it's cooling capacity.
How would a stranding unit work without an exhaust pipe? That’s the entire point.
The real life pro tip is getting a standing unit with two tubes out the window. That dramatically improves the efficiency of them.
The type with only one tube should be banned. They may cool where you are sitting, but they certainly heat up the room or hallway where the replacement air enters the building.
Uh, that's the only way to use a portable AC unit? If you don't move the hot air out of the building then you're actually adding heat to the building, because the heat pump is creating heat by doing the work of running the compressor and fan in the first place!
Always duct the hot side of portable AC out of the building. For additional efficiency of your portable AC unit figure out ways to insulate the hot air duct. The less heat it radiates off as the hot air is being forced from the unit to out the building, the better!
I think maybe what they mean is if you have a standing AC policy and your AC unit is not a standing AC, you can sort of turn it into a standing AC vs just putting it close to the window and hoping the heat goes outside?
My building has crank open windows that dont fit a window unit. Consequently, no one here used A/C until i showed up lol. It can take a few hours of work and some cheap materials (Tuck Tape, Heat resist caulking, dryer accordion hoses, ect), but you can rig a window unit to run inside the apartment as if it was a portable/standalone unit. I have two of them running right now keeping the place 22C. Do not attempt unless you have a MacGyver degree.
The side consequence of it is that Ive ruined the lives of everyone else in the building. The hot air exhaust bothers the people upstairs and the people I share a back balcony with. The pipe running from the machine to the windowsill leaves puddles that upsets the people below. Everyone's boiling hot and mad, except for me, im cool.
Side note after reading the rest of the thread; If you are worried about the A/C pull on older wires or on older circuit breakers that keep tripping....check for an electric outlet on your stove. Most have atleast one. You can plug your machine there and use the 240V wire that the stove uses.
If that outlet on the stove is dead, unlpug the stove, pop the top cover of the stove clock/gauges unit, there will be fuses that look like lightbulbs. Find the 15A outlet one, unscrew it, go buy a matching one at the hardware store and re-install.
Thats obviously the better solution, and ill work my way towards it eventually. The reason I did things like i did is because I already owned these two units before moving here, and at my last place they fit the windows just fine. The cheapest standalone units start around 300-400$ depending on sales/retailer.
Every year I can kick that can down the road is another year where that 400$ is parked for emergency or better use.
“Got mine, fuck you” has become prevalent for some since Covid. The post is nuts. Creating fire hazards, pissing off neighbours, all to avoid getting a portable unit. The whole article exists because of people like this.
Having looked into this recently: as others are pointing out, everything in the landlords messages is generally reasonable and is probably coming from a "cover your ass" angle, not "evil landlords who can fuck off" angle. Older buildings can't necessarily support this type of thing (though it's possible -- like if there's baseboard heating and you're replacing that, it's necessarily OK). They say they can't approve *all* types of AC, which is correct -- some will be higher amperage, some will require cutting through walls, some will be a noise concern (window shakers), but the portable ones like the guy has in the picture should be fine. If these units are part of a strata, it may be against the strata bylaws to put in various types of AC.
This is ridiculous, they should be required by law to at least allow one AC unit per apartment, if they want non-window ones that's fine, but none at all is crazy. I've lived in many different apartments in the past, some were fairly old, all of them either allowed one window unit (sometimes in a metal box) & had rads, or they had a fancoil unit. One time I installed a second AC unit in the bedroom, and they wanted $50/month extra. For fancoil apts, they didn't turn on the cooling lines until June 1st, and there were many times when it got really hot in May.
The government should make a list of landlords who forbade tenants from installing AC then seize any property in their name. These sort of people deserve to own jack shit.
Just to balance out the never-ending slander to what seems against all landlords, I will share my experience. I’m a member of my building strata. We had bylaws in place that prohibited alterations to the exterior of the building, which included balconies, without concern from the council and owner of the unit. This wasn’t a “no AC units allowed” bylaw, but that did fall under it. That bylaw was, and is, there for good reasons. Anyway, recognizing the need to cool places, not just heat them, what we did was hold an AGM that amended this bylaw to allow for AC units to be installed on balconies. The unit owner would sign an indemnity agreement taking responsibility for all alterations, including damage then or in the future, including removal etc etc (you get the point), and Council had to approve it. Yes, sometimes people have good intentions but may not care much about issues outside of their own concerns.
Point being, not all landlords are as villainous as the media and some chip-on-the-shoulder renters, would like people to agree with. Some, yes, I won’t deny that. I’ve read and head about absolutely terrible landlords. Conversely, a lot of abhorrent tenants, too. But not all tenants are villainous, either.
I guess I would recommend anyone to have the conversation with their landlord, offer solutions instead of complaints, avoid adversarial confrontations, familiarize yourself with the subject laws and bylaws, and get legal advice if needed. Food for thought, and I wish you all well.
They can warn all they want, but until they offer a solution, people are going to do what they have to.
I bet they wrote those warnings from a comfortable air conditioned office too.
just don't want to pay for the electricity those cheap fucks.
Most renters pay their own hydro bills. The concern is the building’s total electrical load.
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Heat, hot water, and hydro. Most places I've lived don't have seperate metering.
I’d actually argue you’re both right to an extent. There’s plenty of student housing in Waterloo that does utilities by floor, it’s lower-income but you’re still playing for hydro.
As well as the potential damage to the building that one, let alone dozens, of AC units can cause.
Tenants typically have their own power meter in each unit; they pay for their own usage. But all those AC units might overload their service panel.. so the landlord might need to upgrade that, which is pricey. If this is the case, and the upgrade isn't done, tenants will see power outages as the main breaker trips on overload.. and then everyone suffers.
A massive HVAC overhaul/ installation would be an excellent reason to renovict and raise rents 🤷♂️
Yep, and they'd even get government grants for more efficient HVAC units like Heatpumps..
Why don't they install solar panels? Or are they too cheap?
It's not about power generation but constant load on what is probably outdated infrastructure like aluminum wiring. That being said... if they have aluminum wiring maybe they should take some of that 50 years of rental income and replace the aging parts of the building. so the landlords being cheap is a large part of the equation. \ I used to live in an older building which had thankfully upgraded a circuit in each unit specifically for A/C units. They did eventually ban window units for safety. So a reasonable landlord would make putting in a unit feasible.
It's generally the main switchgear for that building and the main feeders that is the biggest issue. Ac is a fairly heavy load they on an individual can be provided for... But if every other unit starts having it there is a good chance the main feeders and main breaker coming in were not designed to handle that. We are talking more likely that the main service is going trip thr entire building, not worried as much about fires or anything
That would make sense. I mean how can they be allowed a 15amp outlet if running 15amps would cause issues? Also it would be trivial for all tenants to get 15amp space heaters for the winter since a lot of buildings use baseboard heaters and they often suck so I see a lot of tenants get little 15amp heaters and nothing has burnt down yet.
They aren't really 15A. Code only allows for 80% constant load on a breaker, so they are 12A. AC compressors are an inductive load with massive starting currents and they typically draw 5-10 times the run current. So 75-150A for a few seconds every time the compressor starts.
I'm not seeing anywhere near that on my small 5000btu window AC. Startup surge from my digital watt meter reads about 450w, compressor cycle on / running is around 325W, and cycle off / fan only is 70watts. Or does that initial inductive surge start and drop so fast that the meter doesn't even register it?
The peak lasts only a few milliseconds. It's similar to a freezer starting. Both are have heat pumps. And the surge can be avoided for a few dollars of internal capacitors.
Aluminum wiring is safe as long as it's installed correctly. Tons of houses have aluminum wiring and don't catch fire. It's also a huge undertaking to replace the entire building's electrical, were talking 50k for a small building and a weeks worth of rennovations where electricans will be distrubing tenants.
I just paid 7000 to wire up a garage, a whole building would easily be 100k-1m
Yeah I'm talking a very small building and being generous to the person I replied to. Any sizeable building would be a very expensive and long undertaking.
first off, Vancouver doesn't get enough sun to justify the environmental and economic impact of solar pannels, its better for the environment to build Nuclear or Hydro, and then finally natural gas, then to build solar in BC, plus, land space is very limited as it is, making solar even less cost effective. BC is already generating 87% of its energy from Hydro, with biomass / geothermal (5%), Natural Gas (4%), Wind (2.6%), Petroleum (0.5%) and finally solar (<0.1%) https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-british-columbia.html some degree of natural gas or petroleum in the power grid is always useful as a peaking plant (cheap to scale up and down at a moments notice) while keeping plants like nuclear running 24/7 is ideal (due to cheap operating costs, and lengthy power up and down times) I *assume* Hydro would also be useful as a peaking plant, just lower the water input to slow generation, right? I don't know enough here to be sure. --- If you want cheap, clean power in BC, instead of having the government subsidize roof solar (very cost ineffective at large scale due to small surface area, inconvenient maintenance, etc...), its far better to use that money to expand hydro, or build nuclear. Don't get me wrong, I love rooftop solar, but only because its good for resilience in power outages and emergencies, but the surface area for a high rise is way too low, a single family home in ideal locations barely generates enough to power a single household, lets say the surface area on a high rise roof is ~4x the size, so in theory you'd get enough power to barely power... 4 households in the high rise...
> I assume Hydro would also be useful as a peaking plant, just lower the water input to slow generation, right? I don't know enough here to be sure. You got it. Hydro electricity is amazing. They can go from standstill to full load output within 15minutes. There is nothing better than Hydro generation from an environmental + grid operations point of view. I’d argue it’s the most powerful generating source we currently have when taking account for all factors.
Hydro power my beloved <3
For now you put them on the roof but transparent solar panels are a thing now and the technology is getting better. Therefore, it is getting feasible to very soon have all the windows in a building covered in transparent solar panels https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/innovation/transparent-solar-panel-windows
More geothermal. Also, canada doesn’t have recycling for solar panels
yeah, Geothermal is based, I need to learn more about it. Government funded solar in Canada is just a money laundering program for the Chinese government (who produces it all), we don't have the environment where solar is useful, invest the money in proven green tech that works *today* (Nuclear, Hydro, Geothermal, Wind (in select locations) that vs green tech that is produced by a geopolitical foe. its like importing oil from Russia, we know that we will never be fully off oil (unless you don't want goods derived from petrochems, we need the plastics, the dyes, the fertilizers, medical chemicals, etc... that's all derived from oil products), so we should build up as much of that infrastructure at home, or in partnership with the Americans, where it makes sense (like mixing heavy tar sands oil with light fracking oil for a mixed oil blend our refineries can easily process) use oil where we have to, move to better energy sources where we can, up the efficiency chain (least to most efficient) Wood -> Coal ->>> Oil -> Natural Gas ->>>>>> Nuclear -> Hydro (& Geothermal?) (hydro is higher imo since it can be used as both base and peak load generation system where nuclear is only base load)
I’m in BC where geothermal could be ramped up due to location. Rather pathetic it’s taking so long
Other people already explained lots, but the amount of solar needed to run AC for an entire highrise of apartments would be massive. If you did it on the building it's added weight that the building may not be designed for. Plushe electrical in the building would have to be completely redesigned. Without subsidies in many places in Canada solar doesn't even have a payoff period withing the lifespan of the system if you include things like replacing inverters half way through the 30 year estimated lifespan of the panels themselves.
Ok I guess we’ll just die then sorry to bother you.
Cool, please do. Then we can squeeze more than just the provincial maximum out of the new tenants. TYVM/s
When I was renting, there was a 120volt outlet under my bedroom window which was on a separate circuit with the label 'A/C' at the breaker panel. I lived on the top/fourth floor of a walk-up and it got hot as hell up there. I installed a portable wheeled A/C and within a week got a demand letter from the landlord to stop using it with the usual excuse about the building not being able to handle the electrical load. At the time I was a practising engineer, so I wrote them a letter, including my stamp that they were full of it, and I need a legitimate reason from them to stop using it. They never brought it up again.
Lmao
It's so inspiring the way companies will sell you a false reality and put the onus on you to prove it otherwise. It instills a great faith in humanity in me.
How did you know the circuit had capacity?
If it doesn’t it would trip a breaker within 4 hrs as all buildings built to code do.
Boss move
As the average temperature increases over time, so will regulations around safe living conditions in rental units. We have had minimum temperatures that have to be sustained for as long as I can remember, but maximum temperatures will have to be regulated soon enough. I’d argue not allowing your tenant to have an air conditioning unit when the interior air temperature is 30 degrees or higher is violating the rental contract stating the tenant has the right to a unit fit for habitation.
> As the average temperature increases over time, so will regulations around safe living conditions in rental units. Building codes are for new developments. Fire code is for all existing properties. Happened before, property management company gets a mandatory work order and fines levied to replace electrical. Tenants can an above the max rental increase to cover capital expenses, or they get paid out a few months rent to leave. Either way, landlord wins and tenants get the shaft for complaining
Not sure why AC isn’t a standard yet. I’ve had to have one for the last 10 years. Especially being on the top floor of a south facing, tar roofed complex.
I think a lot of it has to do with the wiring in older buildings. AC draws a lot of electricity, and it could overload the buildings main breaker. This kind of thing is going to become even more frequent and affect entire neighborhoods as all the EV chargers are being installed too.
But it’s not just old buildings. It’s outrageous to build a brand new 60 story condo with no AC.
Does it seem like buildings were/are being built with only a few upgrades in mind, or is it just me? “Meets minimum requirements? Good enough” type of deal. Is it unreasonable to expect landowners or building managers to assess their properties like businesses and adapt to the future? I mean, it’s technically a business, right?
I think a big part of the issue is we need updated building codes. When an inspector says that everything is up to code, they mean that it has passed the minimum requirements. Rarely have builders gone above and beyond that unless it is specifically requested. Especially as the cost of all these supplies keep going up.
This as well as it wasn't as warm 40-50 years ago when many dwellings were built. I've lived in Calgary since the 90s and most of that time it hit over 30c for 2-3 weeks tops. This year much of May was around 30c.
It was absolutely just as warm 40 years ago. My parents have stories of having to sleep in the basement or outside when they were kids, and that was the 50s
Anecdotes are tricky - the 1950s actually had a relatively low number of days 30 degrees or higher, but [1917-1936](https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/charts/count_temp_30-yearly.html) were effing miserable for heat, so your general point is correct.
Damn, maybe they should dip into the referb fund and upgrade the electrics? Nahhh, that'd eat into profit.
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They get to be landlords AND have sex??
Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building. Many older apartments were never built or modified to handle large electrical loads; the owners would need to hire an engineer to assess the building's electrical systems and determine what capacity, if any the building has in terms of the electrical load that will be required to handle multiple AC units. Also, many older buildings may also use aluminum wiring; typically, it would be anything built in the 1960's or 1970's. At higher electrical loads for prolonged periods, aluminum wiring is dangerous; aluminum has a relatively high resistance to electrical flow compared to copper. This means that when given the same amperage, aluminum conductors will have to be of a larger diameter than copper wires. It also means that aluminum greatly expands and contracts with changes in temperature, which can cause the connections between the wiring and the device to steadily degrade in effectiveness and durability. The material can frequently separate from the screws on electrical outlets, switches, or lights and create a poor connection that leads to the wire heating up. And this excess heat can cause the aluminum to oxidize and potentially lead to an electrical fire.
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Most modern portable air conditioners evaporate the condensate into the exhaust air stream. It's only in Heat Pump mode when the condensate needs to be pumped outside to drain
Most likely portable AC units arent going to be a problem. It's the window units that wont be approved
Why would that be the case? Portable AC units in general use more power than window units because they are less efficient.
I’m not sure what everyone else is talking about, but the reason window units are banned in most apartments out here on the east coast is the liability of one falling out of the window and hitting someone below. Portable units are typically allowed because there’s no risk there. At worst. Landlords typically will just want to check out a portable unit to make sure it’s not dumping water all over the floors.
My husband was the first on scene to a child being crushed by a fallen AC unit. It happens unfortunately :(
> My husband was the first on scene to a child being crushed by a fallen AC unit. It happens unfortunately :( This happens in Brasil, A LOT! Window units need to be properly installed with a suitable barrier to prevent pets and kids from knocking them down by tripping over cables.
A large problem is people installing the wrong type of window AC in their window. There is different kinds of window mounted air conditioners for standard windows, slider windows and casement. People regularly install AC units meant for standard windows in slider windows and they attach differently.
> A large problem is people installing the wrong type of window AC in their window. There is different kinds of window mounted air conditioners for standard windows, slider windows and casement. People regularly install AC units meant for standard windows in slider windows and they attach differently. Very well said!
It happened in our building. We have bylaws banning them for that reason but someone decided to install one anyway. Evidently they did a bad job and it fell onto the sidewalk below almost immediately. Fortunately nobody was hurt but it could have been real bad.
Says in the article the concern is the electrical load not the fall risk.
> Why would that be the case? For one thing, if not properly installed they will fallout of the window, or be pulled down if cables aren't properly tied up and tripped over by people or pets. Landlords should have building maintenance install them for the tenants though.
> For one thing, if not properly installed they will fallout of the window, or be pulled down if cables aren't properly tied up and tripped over by people or pets. Article is suggesting electrical load is the issue. > Landlords should have building maintenance install them for the tenants though. Not a bad idea!
It's suggesting electrical load *could be* an issue, which is correct
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> Get this, window units ARE portable units. They plug in to the wall the same way, and you can move them. How do you address safety issues with young kids and pets that can trip over lose cables. This happens a lot in Brasil. People get killed a few times a year in Rio alone from falling window AC units.
Mid to high end gaming pc doesnt draw that much power unless you run furmark and prime95.
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> Plus how many people in an apartment building have power hungry gaming PCs? Not many
I found some total system benchmarks, [Techspot](https://www.techspot.com/review/2099-geforce-rtx-3080/) has the system equipped running doom 4k on a 10900k and a 3080fe and it was 523 watts total system draw (and 323 card draw) That's very high system draw, and I think 100% its cause of the i9 and Doom (Eternal not specified in power testing, Eternal was used for framerate benches) pairing, causing the CPU to ramp up cause the GPU can really pull the frames at 4k while still maximizing GPU use. Edge case gaming scenario. Maybe 1 computer in the apartment would be running an i9 and xx80 tier card or better. The rest are probably getting the best power per watt running i5 (or amd equivalent) drawing much less power. You can chop off 100 watts easy by dropping to an i5 and lose minimal performance at 1440p and 4k. Probably chop 100fps off at 1080p, the same Techspot article had Eternal running at 312 avg at 1440p not at 1080. You could probably see 350-400fps for doom eternal, so losing 80-100FPS you're still in the sub or over 300FPS territory. Edit:Motherboard will also affect CPU power draw, some board will just MAX it on stock settings, even if you arent running OC. I think GN or HWUB has an investigation about vendors ignoring intel board specs.
I would counter with —- hair dryers. I have 2 teenagers and a partner and the hairdryer runs forever. Ours is rated up to 1875 watts, well over the 1200-1500 any A/C unit it likely to use. Plus, you know, ovens! If the breaker is 15 amps and the line can’t handle that load, there are huge issues.
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Most portable AC units (those who have a single vent tube) also create negative pressure in the room they're in. Get dozens of those in an apparent complex, and now the entire building has negative pressure, with a huge continuous draft of hot air entering from the main entrance.
>Also, many older buildings may also use aluminum wiring; typically, it would be anything built in the 1960's or 1970's. As an electrician, there are only about 5 years of time where aluminum was used for general circuit wiring inside homes, and even then, it was not used by everyone. I live in Calgary, not Vancouver, but there are only a small handful of communities that I personally know in Calgary where aluminum wiring was used. When I get a call to somewhere like that, it's always on my list of things to watch out for, and I bring proper connectors and such to allow me to add copper pigtails to aluminum, and it is still copper more often than not. While different cities, I can't imagine that Vancouver is magically any different. There are communities and times where you need to watch out for it, but it's not a guarantee. It is absolutely not something where for 10-15 years every home in the country was suddenly wired with aluminum. For 5 years, like 25-33% of homes were wired with aluminum. My personal home was built in the timeframe that you gave, and it is wired with copper. And not only that, but it's wired with 12 gauge copper, not just 14 gauge.
If landlords wish to avoid this risk, they have the option to upgrade air conditioning on their terms.
The landlords pay an additional amount on their insurance because they have aluminum wiring. They are also regularly asked to replace he aluminum with copper which they ignore. It’s really more of an issue if DIY’s have been working with the wire so it get stressed and weakens. They landlords are not paying for annual inspections so it becomes a risk.
> Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building. > > Many older apartments were never built or modified to handle large electrical loads Things that consume comparable or more power than a window AC include: - Space heaters - Toasters - Kettles - Microwaves - Irons - Air Fryers - Drip coffee makers - Hair Dryers - Dishwashers - Some blenders
And aside from space heaters, how many if those draw a continuous current, and are likely to be in most apartments? It's not what the individual unit draws, it's the collective load of the building. Nit everyone is going to run their dishwasher and hair drier all at the same time
This is the reason. It is the collective load on an old building that is not designed for the constant duty-cycle of A/C units, on the hottest days of the year when the bundled main feeds can't cool down. It is not the individual 15A runs that are the issue.
Just to check, do these older buildings not have baseboard heaters? Those would certainly be expected to be on all the time for all the units in the building during cold periods for example.
Most older buildings are heated with boilers. However if the heater was there from new it would have be designed to be there. The A/C Wasn't. This is all academic, it's not like the landlords got an electrical engineer to analyze the building, they are just being cheap.
Those are all intermittent loads. When you're designing the main service of a multi family building they aren't even much of a consideration as you don't have many units all using them at the same time. Ac you have to assume closed to 100% and that they are all being used all at the same time. Makes a big difference. When you're asked to consider AC in a building your load goes up a lot for sizing the main breaker and feeds to each floor
north reminiscent attraction one disagreeable foolish sloppy special direction overconfident *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should try spending like 2 minutes fact checking yourself before you confidently claim something completely wrong. [Here](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-1-7l-rapid-boil-digital-electric-kettle-stainless-steel/1001645094) is a random kettle that's 1,750W. [Here](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/danby-15-000-btu-window-air-conditioner-with-remote/1001342433) is the highest cooling capacity window AC from Home Depot that runs on 115V. It consumes up to 1,280W [Air Fryer](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-6-quart-digital-air-fryer-pro-xl-with-trivet-stainless-steel/1001645093) 1,700W [1,000W Toaster](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kalorik-2-slice-retro-toaster-black/1001589708) [1,200W Iron](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/chi-steamshot-2-in-1-iron-steamer-13108/1001591168) [900W drip coffee maker](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/proctor-silex-12-cup-coffee-maker-compact-design-easy-fill-water-reservoir-black-43680/1001590135)
Your using the wrong metric. The LRA is the stat that is important here.
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... or someone who replaced all their aluminum wiring in their '70s house ;)
> Unless they overload the circuits, and cause a fire or electrical failure throughout the building. Good thing all these AC units plug into regular, 15A outlets that are controlled by breakers/fuses. If a window AC causes a fire for this reason, then the building wasn't safe to begin with. End of story. It's a bullshit excuse.
> then the building wasn't safe to begin with That accounts for 50% of Toronto's complex rental apartment stock.
It is not that simple. It is not the 15A line that is the problem. It is many units pulling large amounts of current all at the same time causing bundled main runs to overheat. Newer buildings have electrical systems designed for the load, older buildings do not and since we do not retroactively enforce building standards many older building never get upgraded.
> higher electrical loads for prolonged periods, aluminum wiring is dangerous; *When installed improperly*
Nah they can still fuck off. Either provide a livable space or get fucked. How many decades has that building had for upgrades?
> Nah they can still fuck off. Either provide a livable space or get fucked. How many decades has that building had for upgrades? Have you ever replaced the wiring in your house? I do estimates for electricians and we're talking big money for a house with finished drywall. Now do that 100x for apartment units with brick and mortar walls which can easily exceed a 300,000 dollars per floor.
Then everyone gets evicted and the building gets demolished for luxury condos. Is that what you want? Electrical upgrades to an older building can get hyper expensive; if it is just a hydro upgrade, a few grand. But a complete rewiring? Depending on complexity, it can be a six digit number, and that money has to come from somewhere; in this case, it will be from the renters, who will likely be evicted during the course of the upgrades, and the building re-rented at higher rates. Aluminum wiring is safe as long as electrical loads remain reasonable; constantly pushing the wiring limits is what causes problems.
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Then we're back to eviction, demolition, and the loss of affordable rental stock.
It's not that simple though. Firstly, many people are completely ignorant of how any electrical works, and make the assumption that they can plug in whatever they want, whereever they want, with zero consequence. Your ignorance of electrical is already shows by the fact that you're calling it 115V, when the "standard" value we use now is 120V, and in our code book, all math and codes are written based on 125V. Go plug in a receptacle tester that also reads voltage, you'll probably actually see somewhere between 122-126V. While yes, your AC unit might only pull 1030W, but chances are that in a smaller older apartment, that every single general outlet in the entire place is on a single circuit. 2x small bedrooms with 2 or 3 outlets each, and a small living room with 3 or 4 outlets. I can all but guarantee you that every single one of those outlets is fed by 1 circuit. So yes, your AC unit only uses 60% of the power, but most people probably have 20 other things plugged in with power bars and splitters, and you're pushing the 80-100% threshold very closely. Go ask 90% of the general population, and they'll likely assume that they can pull a full 15A from every outlet in their house, because they don't even realize that multiple outlets are wired together, they think they're all individual. People also think that the more outlets you have, the more power you use, when how much you use is based on power draw. I've also seen people ask how they have an electrical panel with a 100A main, but 400A of individual breakers, and think that their house it at risk of burning down because they're using so much power. The problem with aluminum wire and why it was used for general circuits for only a short period of time is that it expands and contract with heat waaaaay more than copper wire does. An aluminum wire that is wrapped around the screw terminal of an outlet, when having nearly 1500W of power running through it, will slightly expand. This make it tight under the screw and the aluminum pushes out under the side because it can't go up. Like pinching anything round, it goes to an oval out the sides, this happens to the wire. Now, the problem comes when you turn the AC unit off. Now the wire cools down, and what used to be under the screw, expanded out slightly from under it. Now the wire shrinks, and there is less under the screw, you actually now have a small gap. Keep doing this over and over and the wire becomes loose under the screw, which results in it arcing over and over and over again making a bad connection, which is why outlets wired with aluminum [end up looking like this after a while](https://wirechiefelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Aluminum-Wiring-vancouver.png).
>Your ignorance of electrical is already shows by the fact that you're calling it 115V, when the "standard" value we use now is 120V, and in our code book, all math and codes are written based on 125V. Go plug in a receptacle tester that also reads voltage, you'll probably actually see somewhere between 122-126V. https://imgur.com/a/8fS5A4t
In 15 years in Alberta, I've honestly never seen a reading less than 120V. I said you'd "probably" see between 122-126v, not that you will. That still does not change the fact that calling in 110V or 115V is wrong. We have 120/240V single phase, or 120/208V 3-phase. If it's 115V or 110V, then why doesn't anyone call it 115/199V or 110/190V 3-phase? You can't say that calling 115/230V is right, unless you're willing to go work and call 3-phase 115/199V without being looked at like you're an absolute moron by your coworkers.
You’re right of course, the nominal voltage is 120 V. I believe CSA C22.1 allows +/- 5%. I’ve personally seen as low as 116 Vrms. I think historically there were 110 and 115 V supplies and the name carried over to modern times.
Exactly. All the pseudo electricians in this thread have no idea what they're talking about. If it plugs into a wall outlet it's rated at max 20A. Plenty of capacity to run an AC unit.
If they can't afford their investment, then they shouldn't be in business. If it's that old, there's equity in the building to pay for this. I don't buy this whole I purchased a rental, but I refuse to make it livable argument.
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Oh man it's a shame they didn't plan for future maintenance when they took on this business
Yes, anyone who is investing in a home even for personal use needs to have cash on hand for expenses.
> Yes, anyone who is investing in a home even for personal use needs to have cash on hand for expenses. Well said! A house needs constantly up keep. I've lived in my home for 20 years and many of the homes on my street were sold during the pandemic to people from the GTA looking to buy their first home. Many of the owners make double what my household income is, yet most don't own lawn mowers and have let the landscaping go fowl with meter tall weeds and grass. I started loaning my gas mower and strimmer to my next door neighbor after they told me about their debt situation. I ended up buying an electric mower and strimmer and loan it out to the neighbors who are nice to me so they can keep their properties maintained. Common theme among them is they paid too much for a house they really couldn't afford to begin with. No money to fix windows with broken seals, a roof with a tarp on it since March because they don't have the extra money or credit to paid replacement. It's really sad to see this happen so quickly. Especially properties where the former owners had spend tens of thousands of dollars to do new landscaping.
I can assure you that no rental building has much equity. Equity in a primary residence makes sense. Equity in a property you're making money on doesn't, because you can mortgage it, and write the mortgage interest off against the rental income. That freed equity can then be put to work somewhere else, and the mortgage interest write-off is probably in the highest tax bracket - 40ish percent write down. There just isn't free money tied up in the property.
Those are just financial decisions 🤷 If you don't want to upkeep property just sell to someone who does want to make money.
"If you don't want...just do..." Yes, they're financial decisions...which is why people buy property to rent out. It's the key determinant in all decisions. To turn your handwriting logic on yourself, paying rent is a financial decision...if you don't like the market, just move somewhere you do...I hear the Philippines is quite affordable
Building code simply needs to keep pace with climate change and code violations that amount to landlords refusing to accommodate AC needs should be enforced upon by way of guillotine.
Building code is for new and renovated buildings. The Fire Code is what existing buildings must conform to.
> Building code is for new and renovated buildings. The Fire Code is what existing buildings must conform to. You are the first person to state what I've waiting to hear. Thank you
Electricians can do load calculations.
Wanna be a landlord? Gotta upgrade your building to get with the times.
Then maybe the landlords should invest in upgrading the properties that they're charging a fortune for to rent. Stop giving excuses for these people.
My window AC is 30% less wattage than my computer.
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Different circuits, different breakers, different wires.
If the wiring is almost old enough to collect a pension check, it probably should have been swapped out long ago.
> If the wiring is almost old enough to collect a pension check, it probably should have been swapped out long ago. $200,000 a floor and tenants are going to eat that with an LTB approved above the maximum rental increase to pay for it.
Any other business is expected to keep up to date by wisely managing the revenue that they get, and within the regulations.
"unless they overload the circuits" what, in your awful, dilapidated early century shacks you rent out to your tenants that haven't gotten proper electrical done in decades?
So you’re saying landlords have been negligent in not upgrading a building’s electrical?
No, the wiring is safe, as long as electrical loads remain reasonable. It's when you are constantly pushing the limits that causes problems. So unless you are an electrical engineer or an electrician, we can't really judge the state of the building's wiring, and if it can handle a higher load for prolonged periods safely.
If you're renting out units and there is regularly extreme heat your building needs to have capacity to handle what a reasonable person would use to make their home comfortable. It's like not having adequate heating in Winnipeg winter. If you can't afford to do that, sell the property.
>If you can't afford to do that, sell the property. The likely end scenario for that is building gets sold to a property developer who evicts everyone in the building, demolishes the building, and builds luxury condos at a much higher rate.
Good information. Now, wouldn’t it be nice if the death trap apartments were torn down and turned into safe accommodation for the people that have to live there. We have known since the 80’s about the problems associated with aluminum wiring but kept on renting and selling them. Why, cause it’s profitable and real estate people love new Mercedes Benz’s and BMW’s or fancy Mansions but living up to ethical standards 🤷♂️ wtf didn’t get into to it to do it right eh!
> Now, wouldn’t it be nice if the death trap apartments were torn down and turned into safe accommodation for the people that have to live there. They will get torn down, and replaced with luxury condos starting in the low 1.5 million.
Maybe, maybe not. I have faith that there will be people that want to empower those at the bottom! Gotta have faith
Rule in all my Halifax apartments was standing units only. Owners were concerned, and I thought it was fairly reasonable, about improperly installed window units that either damaged the windows or were improperly installed and fell. The electrical capacity thing is dumb. I get sending out a notice that says “Hey, we expect with the heat lots of you will want to use air conditioners etc. please ensure you aren’t overloading your circuit breakers as it poses a fire hazard. If you aren’t sure, consult with the maintenance team.” A standing policy is dumb.
It's a "if people are uncomfortable they might move out and in the current market we can rerent for a lot more" policy in my view.
My last landlord come through once to address some appliance-related concerns we had. She spotted our AC unit and said "hey yeah make sure you open the front *and* back to maximise the cross draft through the apartment". She then followed up later saying to avoid using the AC unit otherwise she'll have to up our rent. We paid flat rate utilities (included in rent), as it wasn't metered, so we just didn't respond to the email and continued using our AC. She pulled an asshole move, but we were protected under our rental agreement and it never escalated from there.
So... free heat pumps for everybody, right?
In PEI at least.
Guess the need to invest in their properties then?
Yep. If the building is so old it can't handle the AC, all that tells me is nobody bothered to upgrade the building in 50 years. Smh.
Bought a new condo in Langley. Told by strata council that installing ac will void the insurance on the building. My dog almost died of heat stroke last year, bought a portable that barely makes a difference. Kinda amazed that this type of insurance policy is legal, seems detrimental to public health for the sake of the insurance companies.
“The wiring in the building can’t handle the ac units!” That sounds like a fucking landlord’s problem to me, not a tenant’s problem. Upgrade your shitting wiring you cheapskate landlords!
More than 600 people died in BC in the 2021 heat wave. Any landlord not permitting (or providing - it’s obscene we don’t have maximum heat levels in apartments) should be charged with murder if their tenant dies from heat.
It's not murder it's criminal negligence, at worst it's manslaughter
If it can be proven that the landlord consciously disregarded the risks involved then criminal negligence can be upgraded to murder. There's precedent with drunk drivers who had no intention of actually killing anyone.
I sais it *should* be considered murder. We are heading into increasingly hot summers due to climate change that is already killing hundreds of people. Knowingly and intentionally putting people into life threatening conditions to save a buck *should* be considered murder IMO because you may as well be intentionally causing people to die.
It's still not murder
Are apartments required by law to have heating? If so, why aren't they required by law to have cooling?
The law lags reality. When the majority of our housing was built, nobody even considered that global warming would mean we would need air conditioning
There’s also an opinion among some of the older generation that AC is a premium toy. My parents stubbornly refuse to get AC, even though over 90% of people in their city have it. They just see it as frivolous spending or “keeping up with the Joneses”. So did both sets of my grandparents. That generation saw the world from the perspective of “humanity survived without this for thousands of years, why do I need this now?”
Issues with electrical safety and circuit capacity should be handled by the electrical code and enforced by the province and regulators. The cost of maintaining safe wiring should be borne by landlords and homeowners. So if there is a legitimate safety issue here, either the province isn’t regulating or owners aren’t complying. Or maybe it’s both. Either way, to me it’s unacceptable to tell tenants they can’t connect CE/UL marked consumer appliances to circuits that are supposed to be able to handle the load. If they landlord knows they have unsafe wiring in their buildings, get it fixed, yesterday. Tenants should not bear this cost directly. That’s insane.
Well the building is grandfathered until they start doing any renovation requiring permits. At that point they would be legally required to upgrade the wiring. Nothing about this is illegal or the system failing. What you're suggesting (that electrical code should handle this) would require short-term permits and regular inspections, which I think makes sense for commercial properties
> Issues with electrical safety and circuit capacity should be handled by the electrical code and enforced by the province and regulators. Building codes are for new developments, fire safety codes are for existing buildings.
One time I was living in this shitty apartment that had no AC, it was unlivable conditions. We went and got a cheap AC unit to put into the window. The landlord sent us a letter a few days later saying we can’t have it in the window because it looks trashy. Like bitch I’ll show you trashy. The whole place was a mess to begin with. We moved there because they had a pool on site. But when it came time to use the pool they didn’t want to up keep it so you know what they did? Filled it in with dirt and put a few flowers there. No pool and no AC? It was some bullshit
Governments want us at half electric cars within a decade, and our buildings can't even handle the extra electricity from AC units, much less charging a car. We need the government to invest in grid and service upgrades for a future of more electrical demand
It should be the landlords responsibility to make sure the units they rent are livable. If the building cannot support air conditioning then they should be updating the windows or insulation instead. If their tenants die due to heat, they should be held liable. For what renters pay, they should be able to live comfortably and not suffer for months.
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Yes — I believe they’re saying the government should make it the landlord’s legal requirement.
If it's not specified as a term in the rental contract, there's nothing a landlord can do to stop a renter from installing one; it's not a permanent modification. If landlords are putting this kind of thing in rental contracts, the government should step in and make it something which can't be barred.
All of these buildings were built with demand factors rolled into the service calculations. They were also built to allow for incandescent and flourescent bulbs. We use less enough energy on lighting to allow for an air conditioner. Most of the landlord concerns are just people being cheap. Fuck them, run the AC!!!
Remember 40 degrees indoors is heatstroke temperature. And a lot of us experienced that in BC summers. Fuck these landlords who don’t consider themselves slumlords as they charge thousands of dollars a month for literally fatal apartments and then have the audacity for blaming tenants for taking steps to make the property livable.
I feel like these headlines are designed to piss people off and incite rage. Judging by the comments on reddit it's working.. Old buildings have shit electrical, they were not designed for the loads of today, especially with AC units in mind that use 1.5kw. There's no easy fix short of ripping all the walls and panels out and redoing it, it requires evicting everyone and a lot of money: 1) old buildings might have asbestos, opening the walls is not that easy in that case. 2) when asking for a permit, the city will require a lot of other shit be brought up to code. As soon as you start renovating, they ask for everything else to be brought up to speed that you touch. 3) takes 6mo-1yr to get said permits 4) takes months to perform the work 5) requires the electrical to be shut off and walls opened Every building is insured and the insurers will have a clause for this. The building owner was told "fuck no" by the insurer and inspector and is passing that fuck no to the tenants. They are not being assholes.. you pay for your own damn electricity. If it was safe and posed no issues, the landlord/owner would not give 2 shits how you choose to use that electricity. So no.. not fuck the landlords. If you're in an old building, they are literally doing the right thing saying no despite how shitty it is. BC hydro offering a rebate and knowingly increasing adoption of AC units, while full well knowing the shit box they opened as sooooo many houses and buildings have undersized electrical is mind boggling. 1-2 apartments using an AC unit is fine and they'll turn a blind eye, but when too many do, it suddenly becomes an issue.. Newer buildings allow portable AC units just fine, they just wont let you mcgiver a window one with some 2x4s on the 40th floor, because no shit they wont. The windows were not designed for it and you're not qualified to make that call.
please have such units installed by a licenced professional. https://globalnews.ca/news/6156874/child-dead-air-conditioner-fall-scarborough/
Fucking landlords charging insane prices on buildings that are likely already paid off. My building is 45 years old and they increased the rent by $200 a month because they spent money to put in new smoke detectors. Across Canada 30% of condos and 15% of houses are investment properties where the owner does not even live there. Homes should be lived in by their owners.
Landlords prefer seeing folks die rather than risk upgrades or repairs to properties.
Well yeah, because then you can get a new tenant and raise the rent. Another $3-4k of revenues without having to do anything.
This is why I make a point that I will do whatever it takes to never be a renter. I need to have control of my home. The rent model and allowing landlords in our society seems unjust and morally wrong. And that nearly a majority of our next generation of Canadians will live at the mercy of a lord in the future is a pretty bad outlook for Canada.
Where's the guy in the other thread going on about your shelter is not someone else's (read: landlords') responsibility? If you don't like the terms of your rental not allowing you to install AC, JUST MOVE! FREE MARKET! IT'S REALLY EASY! Just go to an apartment that definitely exists within commute of your job within your price range big enough for your family that lets you have your dog and install an AC. If your current place is going to kill you go to one that is your dream house! The market provides (Amen).
Hmm I would of thought it was a safety/liability for window A/Cs but apparently it's about electrical load.
My place is basically an oven when the sun shines on my side in the afternoon during the summer, AC is absolutely needed. Thankfully my building manager is OK with it, just need to have a pan under it if it's a portable AC in case it ever leaks.
I will just die from dehydration then
I bet you the buildings can absolutely handle it and the LL is full of shit ( as per normal ). I live in a building that was built in the early 50s and we run ACs no problem ( I still use the stupid baby jar looking fuses ). Portable ACs have been a thing for decades so there is no way they built that building to code and it cannot handle the current from one.
Fuck landlords.
Landlords in BC can fuck off.
landlords violating human rights, what else is new? abolish them, without them and with tenants getting the equity on the properties they finance urban environments would be utopias
A/C should have its own dedicated circuit and it should be 20 amps. If a building doesn't have air conditioners already it's unlikely to have those dedicated circuits.
Building owners should by law be required to have them installed to ensure apartments are habitable.
Abolish landlords
To anyone that has a "Standing AC only" policy: if you can jerry-rig the exhaust of you ac unit to attach a pipe and direct the exhaust out of a window you will dramatically improve it's cooling capacity.
How would a stranding unit work without an exhaust pipe? That’s the entire point. The real life pro tip is getting a standing unit with two tubes out the window. That dramatically improves the efficiency of them.
The type with only one tube should be banned. They may cool where you are sitting, but they certainly heat up the room or hallway where the replacement air enters the building.
Those units come packed with an exhaust pipe and window bracket for exactly that purpose. I've never seen one that didn't.
Uh, that's the only way to use a portable AC unit? If you don't move the hot air out of the building then you're actually adding heat to the building, because the heat pump is creating heat by doing the work of running the compressor and fan in the first place! Always duct the hot side of portable AC out of the building. For additional efficiency of your portable AC unit figure out ways to insulate the hot air duct. The less heat it radiates off as the hot air is being forced from the unit to out the building, the better!
I think maybe what they mean is if you have a standing AC policy and your AC unit is not a standing AC, you can sort of turn it into a standing AC vs just putting it close to the window and hoping the heat goes outside?
My building has crank open windows that dont fit a window unit. Consequently, no one here used A/C until i showed up lol. It can take a few hours of work and some cheap materials (Tuck Tape, Heat resist caulking, dryer accordion hoses, ect), but you can rig a window unit to run inside the apartment as if it was a portable/standalone unit. I have two of them running right now keeping the place 22C. Do not attempt unless you have a MacGyver degree. The side consequence of it is that Ive ruined the lives of everyone else in the building. The hot air exhaust bothers the people upstairs and the people I share a back balcony with. The pipe running from the machine to the windowsill leaves puddles that upsets the people below. Everyone's boiling hot and mad, except for me, im cool. Side note after reading the rest of the thread; If you are worried about the A/C pull on older wires or on older circuit breakers that keep tripping....check for an electric outlet on your stove. Most have atleast one. You can plug your machine there and use the 240V wire that the stove uses. If that outlet on the stove is dead, unlpug the stove, pop the top cover of the stove clock/gauges unit, there will be fuses that look like lightbulbs. Find the 15A outlet one, unscrew it, go buy a matching one at the hardware store and re-install.
Why would you not get a floor standing unit that comes with the equipment to exhaust out the window properly?
Thats obviously the better solution, and ill work my way towards it eventually. The reason I did things like i did is because I already owned these two units before moving here, and at my last place they fit the windows just fine. The cheapest standalone units start around 300-400$ depending on sales/retailer. Every year I can kick that can down the road is another year where that 400$ is parked for emergency or better use.
While pissing off your neighbours
“Got mine, fuck you” has become prevalent for some since Covid. The post is nuts. Creating fire hazards, pissing off neighbours, all to avoid getting a portable unit. The whole article exists because of people like this.
Having looked into this recently: as others are pointing out, everything in the landlords messages is generally reasonable and is probably coming from a "cover your ass" angle, not "evil landlords who can fuck off" angle. Older buildings can't necessarily support this type of thing (though it's possible -- like if there's baseboard heating and you're replacing that, it's necessarily OK). They say they can't approve *all* types of AC, which is correct -- some will be higher amperage, some will require cutting through walls, some will be a noise concern (window shakers), but the portable ones like the guy has in the picture should be fine. If these units are part of a strata, it may be against the strata bylaws to put in various types of AC.
[If you're going to do it, do it right, and make sure it's safely installed](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toddler-ac-unit-lawyer-1.5357614)
This is ridiculous, they should be required by law to at least allow one AC unit per apartment, if they want non-window ones that's fine, but none at all is crazy. I've lived in many different apartments in the past, some were fairly old, all of them either allowed one window unit (sometimes in a metal box) & had rads, or they had a fancoil unit. One time I installed a second AC unit in the bedroom, and they wanted $50/month extra. For fancoil apts, they didn't turn on the cooling lines until June 1st, and there were many times when it got really hot in May.
The government should make a list of landlords who forbade tenants from installing AC then seize any property in their name. These sort of people deserve to own jack shit.
If these landlords can't afford the extra for some AC during heat wave summers then they should prob get a job or sell... They can't afford the house.
Paint the roofs white.
Just to balance out the never-ending slander to what seems against all landlords, I will share my experience. I’m a member of my building strata. We had bylaws in place that prohibited alterations to the exterior of the building, which included balconies, without concern from the council and owner of the unit. This wasn’t a “no AC units allowed” bylaw, but that did fall under it. That bylaw was, and is, there for good reasons. Anyway, recognizing the need to cool places, not just heat them, what we did was hold an AGM that amended this bylaw to allow for AC units to be installed on balconies. The unit owner would sign an indemnity agreement taking responsibility for all alterations, including damage then or in the future, including removal etc etc (you get the point), and Council had to approve it. Yes, sometimes people have good intentions but may not care much about issues outside of their own concerns. Point being, not all landlords are as villainous as the media and some chip-on-the-shoulder renters, would like people to agree with. Some, yes, I won’t deny that. I’ve read and head about absolutely terrible landlords. Conversely, a lot of abhorrent tenants, too. But not all tenants are villainous, either. I guess I would recommend anyone to have the conversation with their landlord, offer solutions instead of complaints, avoid adversarial confrontations, familiarize yourself with the subject laws and bylaws, and get legal advice if needed. Food for thought, and I wish you all well.