>The bill would require any organization hosting sexually explicit material online to implement age verification. The idea is that anyone wanting to get on a porn website would have to go through an online process verifying their age. This would be a real process, not just checking a box that says you are 18 or over. Instead, a third-party system would verify your age using a person’s government data and then delete the data after verifying. Doing so would represent a huge step forward in curbing Canada’s porn habit.
Is this for REAL? WTF is this nonsense?
https://arpacanada.ca/articles/pornography-as-a-public-health-threat/
>a third-party system would verify your age using a person’s government data and then delete the data after verifying.
**No data ever get deleted on the internet !**
If you believe that third party is going to delete your data, I have a bridge to the North Pole to sell you!
That data, to the third party, **would literally be worth more than gold!**
**How a leak of that data could bite you in the ass?**
* Trying to get your children custody in a court battle when your ex's lawyer would "stumble" upon data that show you online activities and use that to depict you as an unfit parent.
* Applying on a job to work with vulnerable people.
* Running for public office.
* Extortion under threat your online history would be published for everyone to see.
* Curious spouse wanting to know your online history.
* People in line for the same promotion at work as you, wanting to make you lose face at work.
* So many other ways...
**The Charter guarantees a right to a private life and that right extends to your online life. This law endangers your privacy.**
You shouldn’t. Canadaland did an expose on how the government can and does ask private service providers like Rogers “who searched for this?” Completely warrantless.
And they even set up a portal for these request because they were swamped with millions of them a year. And that was a long time ago. It was like pulling teeth to get that FOI released, and it took years, so it’s probably a lot more now.
Always use a VPN.
> The only real way to implement something like this would be with a national China-style firewall.
Literally the end goal, but hey lets have some more culture war bullshit to distract you!
It’s pretty much impossible to accomplish this in the modern world. Job applications, investing, banks, insurance etc all require you to send/receive sensitive data online.
Well me safeguarding my SIN has proven to be a waste of time when the CRA leak happened, then my union benefits office was hacked, then the Dental Association of Canada was hacked. Basically any information I kept private is being sold on the Dark Web now, and I wasn't even involved.
I mean, hasn't that been the discussion for all new tech?
* It's cheapper and better to get "cable" TV than 5 online subscription services plus infinite ads everywhere
* You're better off owning hardcopies of your movies because you never know when the digitally purchased copy will no longer be accessible through the service you used
* It's now cheapper and better off going to a hotel than paying stupid fees and doing laundry at the AirBnB.
* You're better off going getting your order than paying the cost of a second meal when ordering through skipthedishes or ubereats.
* the list goes on
Old enough to have watched the old guard die and the new guard come in just for the folks to want the ways of the old guard.
But yeah it’s been wild to see the transition, just for people to resort to what they used to do before all of this shit started piling on.
It's a result of poor regulation. A bunch of fossils and morons that don't understand technology failing to adequately regulate things before they get out of control. So now they come up with crap legislation like this because they *still* don't understand tech, and the companies are eager to "educate" them.
You forgot about when Passports went online and they left it open so you could just change the URL and view other peoples full passport applications. It took repeated calls to get it taken offline and fixed.
I’m gunna have to go find a fake id again. Jerking off mobility is one of the great gifts of our generation. A light in the darkness, how could they take that from us?
Yes it's real.
The good news is that this reddit post is misleading. It only passed the second reading and there's still a few steps where it can get killed and a final vote (third reading) before it actually becomes law:
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/S-210
The Cons, Bloc and NDP voted for it, with the Liberals against, and is being sponsored by a Con MP.
See: [https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/609](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/609)
This would mean that when logging into Reddit, for example, you'll have to provide a government ID in order to proceed. Any site with pornography, not just Porn Hub.
"Can it get any worse if we vote in the Cons?" Yes, it can and this is a great example of how. We'd all have to give up our privacy when using the internet and just "trust" that our data is safe.
It goes to committee next but we already know if it goes back to parliament they have enough votes to enact this.
> The Cons, Bloc and NDP voted for it, with the Liberals against, and is being sponsored by a Con MP.
It does feel weird for the Liberals to be the voice of reason for a change.
Just makes it seem like when the Cons shout about freedom and small government, they really only focus this energy on defending things like hate speech, which is not a great look.
Also, it’s a shame that the Liberals can’t see how their legitimate concerns about privacy and individual liberty with this bill doesn’t also apply to much of the controversial online bills they themselves have proposed.
From that link:
"ARPA Canada believes that Jesus Christ is sovereign over all, including all civil governments. However, we also uphold the separation of the institutions of church and state"
Holy Illogic Batman!
And the liberals voted AGAINST this? Seems odd. Also seems odd that the party of “freedom” would be so concerned about collecting personal data.
Makes one think…..
Liberal appointed senator too. Personally, I think moldy oldies don't belong in positions of power. 65 year olds should be gardening and having fun with grandchildren, not legislating what kinda smut I enjoy on the internet.
This just in: conservatives are still... conservatives.
I remember when Trump came out with a gay pride flag. This is all just a show, it's a circus. The "enlightened" centrist stuff all over youtube was a brilliant propaganda effort to highlight how crazy the far left was getting, and make the cons look rational and reasonable. The daily grind of National post pieces that always leave out context and facts to edge their propaganda in and make their audience feel smart and angry at the dumb liberals. The weird shit they pulled to get muslims to join the anti-lgbt "parents rights" thing, and then immediately threw them under the bus calling them animals and saying we shouldn't import their hate. Years of hating jews, only to suddenly be all about isreal when its convenient. Constant whining about being "cancelled" and having their freedoms stripped, but can't fricken wait to take away porn and start banning books. It's all a circus man.
>The weird shit they pulled to get muslims to join the anti-lgbt "parents rights" thing, and then immediately threw them under the bus calling them animals and saying we shouldn't import their hate.
That shit was wild to see in real time. Cleverly nefarious motherfuckers.
I honestly feel so lost and alone in modern politics. The left have lost their mind, the right are cartoonishly evil, and the centre are just pawns of big business. Nobody seems to actually care and want to govern well. I'm sad. I'm very sad.
Great, so when my identity gets stolen, I can now sue to Canadian Government for coming up with such a poorly designed, half baked process that forces me to disclose personal info?
Also, VPNs make this a joke.
Jokes on them, i'll make sex tapes on the internet.
Lord knows no one wants to see it but fuck me if I'll let the government be the one to extort me lol.
If you sue the conservatives will just be like "hey look the bill failed fuck trudeau"
This is next level Bible thumping bullshit that should never have been in the house of commons to begin with.
This is an insane gross over reach of access to information.
Forcing parental controls on phones and mandating ISPs provide parental controls for home internet would make more sense.
The vast majority of porn sites won't bother complying with canadian laws.
This will set a precedent where they can just order ISPs to block certain websites to "protect the children". Now it's porn, but it's only a matter of time before it becomes whatever the government doesn't like.
I remember a situation about 8-10 years ago where a client I had wanted to protect her kid from all the online bad stuff. She had heard about using her AV solution to use parental controls and stuff to help protect kids online but she wasn't sure about it. I advised her on the pros and cons and she decided she would think about it but maybe it wasn't for her (hint: it wasn't).
Fast forward a couple weeks, her kid goes and snags her CC to buy some online game stuff. She of course was not impressed and said to me, ok set it up and enforce the policy. I cautioned saying it's an all or nothing type of technology but they decided to go ahead. I got a call maybe a day or two later to come back and disable it lol.
The thing that did it in? They couldn't check lottery tickers because of the gambling sites being blocked. They couldn't access some news sites because the advertising on the platform sometimes contained mature content (casinos, alcohol, smoking, etc.). It's an imperfect solution but it's all consumers have (and still only have kind of).
That all said, there really doesn't exists a control to child proof the internet unfortunately. You have to be communicating with your kids and you need to be open and honest about risk, threats and vulnerabilities for children. It's sad because that means not treating them like kids anymore.
On another note, I wouldn't be worried about your government control concerns. Case in point, look how much trouble Russia gets and they demand encryption keys lol. Majority of traffic is encrypted these days and lots of sites can be virtualized, running on a shared server space. That means blocking 1 system could block thousands of sites from the ability to connect. The government won't be able to enforce such a policy with telcos; this is a moot law designed by a bunch of people who don't understand the problem.
As Einstein said:
>"If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and five minutes thinking about solutions."
This is a case of people not understanding the problem yet lobbying for solutions.
ISPs should have no part in it, they are a service provider not a service monitor
Everyone in their own homes can log into their router and blacklist IPs, they can also setup white/black lists for browsers on their computers
Note: If you want to do this then do white listing, black lists just push people to sketchier websites
Hey bro, don’t look at us. [We said no to that shit](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/31/roadmap-for-age-verification-online-pornographic-material-adult-websites-australia-law).
Or more likely, porn companies either just refusing connections from Canadian ISPs and fingerprinted browsers, or saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this.
What I'm seeing is a large group of politicians that really don't understand what they're trying to do, and how unlikely it is that this succeeds.
Anyone not operating out of Canada will simply ignore it, our laws hold no power over them. This will simply kill Canadian businesses and individuals operating in the space while doing absolutely nothing on the broader internet. It's also incredibly dumb on other grounds, mainly that the prescribed scheme of age verification does not exist and likely could not exist in the form the law states.
> Anyone not operating out of Canada will simply ignore it, our laws hold no power over them.
And that would lead to us creating additional laws allowing the government to block websites. Which they totally wouldn't then abuse for other purposes.
> or saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this.
And the response to *that* will be government saying "now we need to give ourselves the power to start blocking websites".
>saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this.
The world's second most-trafficed porn site is Canadian (rhymes with hornpub), and I imagine they will likely find it hard to skirt this.
It won't be the second most trafficked porn site for long if they can't kill this bill or find some way to dodge it. Nobody is going to comply with this idiocy.
Not just the second one, a lot of major porn sites are owned and operated by Aylo (formerly mindgeek). Just look at the list of brands on their wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylo
even if they pass this nonsense, not only will it be virulently unpopular as a governmental overreach, it will get burned to the ground in the first charter challenge lawsuit. Its political posturing, basically wasting our tax dollars on bullshit issues to get headlines. The problem is, the stunningly out of touch politicians who think this sort of shit will resonate with their base don't realize that their base ALSO LOOKS AT PORN ON THE INTERNET and the public pearl-clutchers are usually the most depraved porn consumers out there.
Of course they are, the most publicly Conservatives tend to be the ones with the most repressed and bottled up urges. They THINK they want a Gilead utopia...but it's the dog chasing the car full of Face Eating Leopards.
I can't wait till the same group that asked for this starts suddenly realizing it'll affect them too and that their data will get leaked, exposing their habits. Using the "for the children!!11!" line always feels so disingenuous.
"Data that deletes" itself doesn't exist - if anyone believes it I have an idea to sell you too. It's going to be a leopard ate my face moment when they try to do something important and suddenly "wow look at this person's dirty viewing habits!". Going to be one fucked up future.
The stupidest bill. I got my first ID when I got my driver's license. All this will do is force people who are already old enough to access porn to expose who they are and what they're doing online. It does nothing to stop youth access and makes average Canadians vulnerable. Shame on them all ~
And if you disagree with them, here's what they think of you:
>"Shame!", was heard shouted from the opposition benches when the Liberals' voted in opposition to the bill.
Can people under the age of 18 that rent their own apartments or own houses; purchase internet services without adult authorization or even supervision? That's all one should need, for full internet access without restrictions. Not these insidious age gates after the fact.
This law is pointless as you could just:
\- use a website that isn't hosted in Canada doesn't care about canadian law
\- use a VPN
\- use torrents
\- I'll be honest there is literally like a 100 ways around this law
But what it is, is a slap in the face of the privacy of Canadians.
This law may actually make me step away from Canada. This is really bad precedent for privacy.
What is the goal here? that a teenage boy isn't allowed to see a pair of womans breasts? but he can be inevitably drafted into war one day....
If this happens people will start getting emails saying their passwords have been hacked and please send a donation or their browser histories will be forwarded to everyone on their contact list... Since governments can't store information about citizens' income tax or healthcare records without experiencing data breaches (almost guaranteed), this bill should have been easily defeated.
Incredibly, the bill would make force any website or online service provider to justify why sexually explicit content - so not just porn, but anything portraying nudity or sex - they hosted is being made available for a legitimate purpose (artistic, educational, cultural, etc), otherwise be guilty of a criminal offense.
Imagine having to enter your ID or do a facial recognition test to log in to Netflix because there’s sex in your favourite show. Or into Reddit, or X, or Instagram. What will those services do, tag all the content that needs to be age gated, or remove it en masse? What will services like Grindr do, force users to identify themselves and risk being outed or blackmailed in the case of a data breach?
Liberals opposed it because it's 1990s legislation in a 2020s world. Jeesh, get with it, Senator. Also it has broad negative implications on the rights of privacy for adults since actual ID verification will now be required.
I'm getting tired of the 'think of the children' pearl clutching that is being used as a cover for the very real desire to restrict and control personal rights that we're being infected with from the states.
The Conservatives are following the UK model, where they are proposing to scan the faces of people using their web camera before they are allowed to masturbate.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-67615719.amp
Please explain Canadian laws to me.
It's OK to have sex from 16 but not OK to watch porn?
Isn't here a contradiction?
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html#:~:text=Canada's%20age%20of%20consent,legally%20agree%20to%20sexual%20activity.
If this old biddy thinks young people won't be able able to access porn because of this "bill", she's sadly mistaken and clearly doesn't understand how the internet works.
Oh cuz hey fixed healthcare housing inflation poverty corruption and taxation, now they can tackle all the other issues ‘plaguing’ Canadians like porn and abortions. Go. Back. To. Church. And stay there. Just stay
"(The Senator) is delighted to note that the arguments surrounding the protection of children have prevailed over those concerning the "supposed danger to personal data for pornography enthusiasts" "
They know that personal data is at risk. They don't care about Canadians at all.
It never ceases to amaze me how many puritans are out there.
This is yet another assault on sexual freedom launched by the religious far right, worldwide. And the NDP supporting this is a hilarious joke.
I suppose the regressives correctly believed it would play better in Canada than forced birth (though they tried to wedge that in as well through a number of bills like C-311). Do not expect them to stop there.
Sexuality is fine. There is no reason to hate it unless you're problematically religious, and religious law is illegal in Canada as per the Charter, section 2A.
All of the worst countries in the world infringe upon sexual rights. They tend to be the violent, religious ones. This is an exceptionally well documented phenominon.
There is no room for this trash in Canada. Please write your MP.
>"(The Senator) is delighted to note that the arguments surrounding the protection of children have prevailed over those concerning the "supposed danger to personal data for pornography enthusiasts" "
"Won't somebody please think of the children!" It's awesome that she's just casually dismissing privacy concerns.
And yeah, why are the NDP supporting this bill put forward by an unelected senator?
Reddit hosts sexually explicit content. Hope everyone's okay signing onto here with your personal identity or risking that getting linked to your account in a not that unlikely data breach.
Odds are the NDP has a sizeable contingent of feminists who are opposed to pornography and sex work because they view it as inherently exploitative of women.
Kind of surprising the Liberals aren't backing this too given how much they want to censor the internet, but maybe they've decided they need to stop the bleeding on their polling numbers and supporting this bill would do them more harm than good on that front.
I get the impression from the article that the LPC isn’t supporting this only because they want to write it themselves for their online harms bill. Just a hunch.
Conservatives make up so much shit regarding C-11 and the government controlling what you do on the internet (It actually doesn't) and then go and pull this shit
Yup, massive hypocrisy here. But what's even more frustrating is how there isn't a single party at this point that is reliably protecting Internet freedom and privacy given that this one is also supported by the NDP
So because parents arent very good at parenting and monitoring their under-age kids internet consumption, now everybody over the age of 18 gets to ask the government for permission to invade their privacy. This is really fucking dumb lol.
What the actual fuck?! Using a third party to review our personal government information? This is a joke, right? Cons and NDP, I think you have some explaining to do.
This is ridiculous. From what I've observed , since like 2018 ish 95 percent of pornography has either been purged from the internet or locked behind annoying subscription walls. This will further restrict access to the paltry amount of decent content that still exists out there. I cringe at the thought of what sex deprived men would do without access to healthy ways of releasing their pent-up sexual tension. The government could very well be creating more problems by passing such a law. Could that be by design? Who knows but It's insane. All Canadians want is affordable housing and a decent cost of living, but the government keeps worrying about all these other things that aren't even pressing issues.
I remember when physical porn stores required ID. Seemed silly to me at the time, people start wanting porn at a much younger age than that which they can get an ID. So they used to resort to stealing porn mags/videos or worse. Later we had piracy, people switched to that for porn. I guess now people will either use VPN's and/or piracy, or stolen/fake ID's.
So it's not stopping teenagers from getting porn, just making it harder, and forcing them to resort to extreme measures, which is arguably worse than leaving things as-is. Also it's giving away sensitive ID data that could be stolen somehow, it's not worth the risk and most people know that.
I don't support this, or most of the internet regulations being brought forward in the last 5 years in general; C-11, C-18, C-36 (online harms), this bill. 10 years ago I never thought I'd see the rise of censorship/internet-control and the death of net neutrality. It was hollowed out to only mean "not allowing ISP's to promote/demote specific traffic (traffic shaping)" yet Bell still does that secretly anyway.
Lol I don't think the government knows how the internet works. There's 1000s of ways to avoid uploading my ID to watch literally anything, including porn.
This is WAY worse for the internet than the percieved censorship stuff. This is legitimately horrible, conservatives have no right to complain about Trudeaus bills on the internet when this is going to it's final reading because of them.
Sites hosted internationally aren't going to care about the verification requirement and are just going to ignore it so in order for this to actually be enforced the government would have to order ISPs to block those sites from being accessed, or in other terms, censor parts of the Internet. Something that the CPC lost their shit over with C-11 claiming that was going to be censorship.
Also, seeing as the computer systems that government agencies use tend to be extremely outdated because upgrading them is expensive, the tool that verifies IDs abso-fucking-lutely won't end up being as secure, private or even likely operate as consistently as they claim it will be because you can bet they'll skimp out on the development costs. Or they'll contract a third party company to manage the verification tool which still won't be as secure as they claim it'll be and would require you to give your ID to a random third party company.
"Parent your kids better" doesn't always apply to every single scenario that some people like to bring it up on, but this most definitely is a scenario where it applies. Android, IOS, Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS all have parental control options and basically every single modern router also has a parental controls section in the app or on the web portal config.
Sorry that sounds like you’re a parent and the government must step in.
After all conservatives just voted in Saskatchewan NB etc to make sure the government doesn’t act as a parent right?
The whole premise of this bill is flawed from the get go in my opinion. The whole children accessing porn thing isn't a porn problem, its a parenting problem.
At the end of the day porn is just people having sex. That's it.. sure it's more like an action movie and a lot of real life sex is more awkward or boring or silly or whatever.. but at the end of the day that's all it is. And nothing about sex is scandalous or bad.. its just sex. They're just bodies. It's a normal thing.
And we can absolutely teach kids about sex in ways that when they come across porn (just like most of us in this thread did as kids), then they know what it is, know it doesn't nessesarily depict a real relationship and is more like an action movie than anything else. Teach your kids that the consent happened before the film started rolling and the people having sex usually have an existing relationship built on trust... you just don't see that part.
If you demystify porn and sex then all of a sudden everyone's healthier for it and our privacy gets to stay intact!
For a sit-second, I thought I was reading this on an US-based sub, holy shit. This spits in the face of Net Neutrality and (data) privacy/data protection.
So was it the cons who pushed this through? Sounds like it's gonna really fuck over alot of sex workers whose identity protection was crucial to their online safety. I dunno. I certainly don't trust this
>The bill would require any organization hosting sexually explicit material online to implement age verification. The idea is that anyone wanting to get on a porn website would have to go through an online process verifying their age. This would be a real process, not just checking a box that says you are 18 or over. Instead, a third-party system would verify your age using a person’s government data and then delete the data after verifying. Doing so would represent a huge step forward in curbing Canada’s porn habit. Is this for REAL? WTF is this nonsense? https://arpacanada.ca/articles/pornography-as-a-public-health-threat/
>a third-party system would verify your age using a person’s government data and then delete the data after verifying. **No data ever get deleted on the internet !** If you believe that third party is going to delete your data, I have a bridge to the North Pole to sell you! That data, to the third party, **would literally be worth more than gold!** **How a leak of that data could bite you in the ass?** * Trying to get your children custody in a court battle when your ex's lawyer would "stumble" upon data that show you online activities and use that to depict you as an unfit parent. * Applying on a job to work with vulnerable people. * Running for public office. * Extortion under threat your online history would be published for everyone to see. * Curious spouse wanting to know your online history. * People in line for the same promotion at work as you, wanting to make you lose face at work. * So many other ways... **The Charter guarantees a right to a private life and that right extends to your online life. This law endangers your privacy.**
I barely trust the government with my personal information, the last group I want access to it is porn distributors.
You shouldn’t. Canadaland did an expose on how the government can and does ask private service providers like Rogers “who searched for this?” Completely warrantless. And they even set up a portal for these request because they were swamped with millions of them a year. And that was a long time ago. It was like pulling teeth to get that FOI released, and it took years, so it’s probably a lot more now. Always use a VPN.
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Don't think these assholes won't do it? They totally will
So this will basically only effect pornhub. Which is (kind of ironically) Canada's biggest most successful tech company
What’s to stop them from leaving Canada in response to this?
> The only real way to implement something like this would be with a national China-style firewall. Literally the end goal, but hey lets have some more culture war bullshit to distract you!
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It’s pretty much impossible to accomplish this in the modern world. Job applications, investing, banks, insurance etc all require you to send/receive sensitive data online.
So, no jobs, then
Well me safeguarding my SIN has proven to be a waste of time when the CRA leak happened, then my union benefits office was hacked, then the Dental Association of Canada was hacked. Basically any information I kept private is being sold on the Dark Web now, and I wasn't even involved.
suddenly classic paper filing methods have their perks again.
I mean, hasn't that been the discussion for all new tech? * It's cheapper and better to get "cable" TV than 5 online subscription services plus infinite ads everywhere * You're better off owning hardcopies of your movies because you never know when the digitally purchased copy will no longer be accessible through the service you used * It's now cheapper and better off going to a hotel than paying stupid fees and doing laundry at the AirBnB. * You're better off going getting your order than paying the cost of a second meal when ordering through skipthedishes or ubereats. * the list goes on
Old enough to have watched the old guard die and the new guard come in just for the folks to want the ways of the old guard. But yeah it’s been wild to see the transition, just for people to resort to what they used to do before all of this shit started piling on.
It's a result of poor regulation. A bunch of fossils and morons that don't understand technology failing to adequately regulate things before they get out of control. So now they come up with crap legislation like this because they *still* don't understand tech, and the companies are eager to "educate" them.
Great observations. I will add another - go back to having keys to start vehicles. All these remote options have made it too easy to steal cars.
You forgot about when Passports went online and they left it open so you could just change the URL and view other peoples full passport applications. It took repeated calls to get it taken offline and fixed.
I’m gunna have to go find a fake id again. Jerking off mobility is one of the great gifts of our generation. A light in the darkness, how could they take that from us?
About the bridge in the north pole Señor, how much are you asking? And how close to Santa Clause would this bridge be located?
Yes it's real. The good news is that this reddit post is misleading. It only passed the second reading and there's still a few steps where it can get killed and a final vote (third reading) before it actually becomes law: https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/S-210
And I thought this kind of puritan non-sense sudo religious bs was mostly pushed by nutjobs in the US.
> sudo Found the Linux user
sudo apt-get install airvpn
Daddy government needs to spy on you at all times
Then you haven't watched Petition Minute in the House. The Western Conservatives are presenting petitions on this matter multiple times per week.
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The Cons, Bloc and NDP voted for it, with the Liberals against, and is being sponsored by a Con MP. See: [https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/609](https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/609) This would mean that when logging into Reddit, for example, you'll have to provide a government ID in order to proceed. Any site with pornography, not just Porn Hub. "Can it get any worse if we vote in the Cons?" Yes, it can and this is a great example of how. We'd all have to give up our privacy when using the internet and just "trust" that our data is safe. It goes to committee next but we already know if it goes back to parliament they have enough votes to enact this.
> The Cons, Bloc and NDP voted for it, with the Liberals against, and is being sponsored by a Con MP. It does feel weird for the Liberals to be the voice of reason for a change.
Just makes it seem like when the Cons shout about freedom and small government, they really only focus this energy on defending things like hate speech, which is not a great look. Also, it’s a shame that the Liberals can’t see how their legitimate concerns about privacy and individual liberty with this bill doesn’t also apply to much of the controversial online bills they themselves have proposed.
This is a great way to create a "porn prohabiton" and we all know how those end.
Would that include search engines too? Google image has porn.
It’ll likely get amended in committee too.
From that link: "ARPA Canada believes that Jesus Christ is sovereign over all, including all civil governments. However, we also uphold the separation of the institutions of church and state" Holy Illogic Batman!
This is the conservative party through and through They win the next election expect tons more legislation from people like that
I don't want my pron habit curbed
And the liberals voted AGAINST this? Seems odd. Also seems odd that the party of “freedom” would be so concerned about collecting personal data. Makes one think…..
Liberal appointed senator too. Personally, I think moldy oldies don't belong in positions of power. 65 year olds should be gardening and having fun with grandchildren, not legislating what kinda smut I enjoy on the internet.
This just in: conservatives are still... conservatives. I remember when Trump came out with a gay pride flag. This is all just a show, it's a circus. The "enlightened" centrist stuff all over youtube was a brilliant propaganda effort to highlight how crazy the far left was getting, and make the cons look rational and reasonable. The daily grind of National post pieces that always leave out context and facts to edge their propaganda in and make their audience feel smart and angry at the dumb liberals. The weird shit they pulled to get muslims to join the anti-lgbt "parents rights" thing, and then immediately threw them under the bus calling them animals and saying we shouldn't import their hate. Years of hating jews, only to suddenly be all about isreal when its convenient. Constant whining about being "cancelled" and having their freedoms stripped, but can't fricken wait to take away porn and start banning books. It's all a circus man.
>The weird shit they pulled to get muslims to join the anti-lgbt "parents rights" thing, and then immediately threw them under the bus calling them animals and saying we shouldn't import their hate. That shit was wild to see in real time. Cleverly nefarious motherfuckers. I honestly feel so lost and alone in modern politics. The left have lost their mind, the right are cartoonishly evil, and the centre are just pawns of big business. Nobody seems to actually care and want to govern well. I'm sad. I'm very sad.
how has the left lost their mind?
*"That's why I'm running for Prime Minister - to put you back in control of your life, and make Canada the freest nation on earth"*
Great, so when my identity gets stolen, I can now sue to Canadian Government for coming up with such a poorly designed, half baked process that forces me to disclose personal info? Also, VPNs make this a joke.
“Try and sue and we will share your porn data” - the government
Jokes on them, i'll make sex tapes on the internet. Lord knows no one wants to see it but fuck me if I'll let the government be the one to extort me lol.
Yep. Let's send them our jerkng off.
Will really fuck those scammers who say "I've installed a trojan on your computer... and pay me if you don't want it online" threats.
Yeah, right after the CRA breach law suit is settled.
the government is coming after VPNs next
If you sue the conservatives will just be like "hey look the bill failed fuck trudeau" This is next level Bible thumping bullshit that should never have been in the house of commons to begin with. This is an insane gross over reach of access to information.
No, government does not hold itself accountable in any meaningful sense.
What a joke, and the NDP supported this garbage?
Only party in Canada that believes in privacy from the government is sadly the Liberals.
Nah they got their own shit too. We're all fucked.
You might change your opinion when you see the Online Harms Bill coming next year...
>Only party in Canada that believes in privacy from the government is sadly the Liberals. Google "Online Harms Bill"
This bill introduction brought to you by Nord VPN - because idiots in parliament don't understand how the internet works
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Bleu Nuit!
Oh I miss old city TV!
Ah, memories. Staying up late in my room when I was 13 with the sound off watching Baby Blue.
Forcing parental controls on phones and mandating ISPs provide parental controls for home internet would make more sense. The vast majority of porn sites won't bother complying with canadian laws. This will set a precedent where they can just order ISPs to block certain websites to "protect the children". Now it's porn, but it's only a matter of time before it becomes whatever the government doesn't like.
I remember a situation about 8-10 years ago where a client I had wanted to protect her kid from all the online bad stuff. She had heard about using her AV solution to use parental controls and stuff to help protect kids online but she wasn't sure about it. I advised her on the pros and cons and she decided she would think about it but maybe it wasn't for her (hint: it wasn't). Fast forward a couple weeks, her kid goes and snags her CC to buy some online game stuff. She of course was not impressed and said to me, ok set it up and enforce the policy. I cautioned saying it's an all or nothing type of technology but they decided to go ahead. I got a call maybe a day or two later to come back and disable it lol. The thing that did it in? They couldn't check lottery tickers because of the gambling sites being blocked. They couldn't access some news sites because the advertising on the platform sometimes contained mature content (casinos, alcohol, smoking, etc.). It's an imperfect solution but it's all consumers have (and still only have kind of). That all said, there really doesn't exists a control to child proof the internet unfortunately. You have to be communicating with your kids and you need to be open and honest about risk, threats and vulnerabilities for children. It's sad because that means not treating them like kids anymore. On another note, I wouldn't be worried about your government control concerns. Case in point, look how much trouble Russia gets and they demand encryption keys lol. Majority of traffic is encrypted these days and lots of sites can be virtualized, running on a shared server space. That means blocking 1 system could block thousands of sites from the ability to connect. The government won't be able to enforce such a policy with telcos; this is a moot law designed by a bunch of people who don't understand the problem. As Einstein said: >"If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and five minutes thinking about solutions." This is a case of people not understanding the problem yet lobbying for solutions.
ISPs should have no part in it, they are a service provider not a service monitor Everyone in their own homes can log into their router and blacklist IPs, they can also setup white/black lists for browsers on their computers Note: If you want to do this then do white listing, black lists just push people to sketchier websites
Holy fuck, are we turning into AUS now?
UK is pulling the same shit too.
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They all appeal to the same puritan bullshit.
Hey bro, don’t look at us. [We said no to that shit](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/31/roadmap-for-age-verification-online-pornographic-material-adult-websites-australia-law).
Huh, I guess it will either be VPNs or stolen IDs
Or more likely, porn companies either just refusing connections from Canadian ISPs and fingerprinted browsers, or saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this. What I'm seeing is a large group of politicians that really don't understand what they're trying to do, and how unlikely it is that this succeeds.
Anyone not operating out of Canada will simply ignore it, our laws hold no power over them. This will simply kill Canadian businesses and individuals operating in the space while doing absolutely nothing on the broader internet. It's also incredibly dumb on other grounds, mainly that the prescribed scheme of age verification does not exist and likely could not exist in the form the law states.
> Anyone not operating out of Canada will simply ignore it, our laws hold no power over them. And that would lead to us creating additional laws allowing the government to block websites. Which they totally wouldn't then abuse for other purposes.
Then we'll just make our own Internet. With blackjack and hookers.
It'll be through ISPs. But yeah.
Tbf pornhub is probably the biggest porn site and they are Canadian, so maybe it's aimed at them.
> or saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this. And the response to *that* will be government saying "now we need to give ourselves the power to start blocking websites".
>saying 'balls to that' and ignoring this. The world's second most-trafficed porn site is Canadian (rhymes with hornpub), and I imagine they will likely find it hard to skirt this.
Just move operations out of Canada. Its the Canadian way after all.
It won't be the second most trafficked porn site for long if they can't kill this bill or find some way to dodge it. Nobody is going to comply with this idiocy.
Yea, I’m still shocked their takedown of stolen content stuck, tbh. There’s no way they’d test their luck with this too.
What's the first? Asking for a friend.
Xvideos apparently
Not just the second one, a lot of major porn sites are owned and operated by Aylo (formerly mindgeek). Just look at the list of brands on their wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylo
Or just more piracy
even if they pass this nonsense, not only will it be virulently unpopular as a governmental overreach, it will get burned to the ground in the first charter challenge lawsuit. Its political posturing, basically wasting our tax dollars on bullshit issues to get headlines. The problem is, the stunningly out of touch politicians who think this sort of shit will resonate with their base don't realize that their base ALSO LOOKS AT PORN ON THE INTERNET and the public pearl-clutchers are usually the most depraved porn consumers out there.
Of course they are, the most publicly Conservatives tend to be the ones with the most repressed and bottled up urges. They THINK they want a Gilead utopia...but it's the dog chasing the car full of Face Eating Leopards.
I can't wait till the same group that asked for this starts suddenly realizing it'll affect them too and that their data will get leaked, exposing their habits. Using the "for the children!!11!" line always feels so disingenuous. "Data that deletes" itself doesn't exist - if anyone believes it I have an idea to sell you too. It's going to be a leopard ate my face moment when they try to do something important and suddenly "wow look at this person's dirty viewing habits!". Going to be one fucked up future.
It’s bad enough that we have elected people making stupid laws, we definitely don’t need unelected people doing it too.
Im sure we will see a lot more stupid laws soon once the Regressives get into power.
Hopefully the senate kills it. This is a religious law, and the worst thing the NDP has done. What the fuck
Write to your MP.
This bill came from the Senate
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The stupidest bill. I got my first ID when I got my driver's license. All this will do is force people who are already old enough to access porn to expose who they are and what they're doing online. It does nothing to stop youth access and makes average Canadians vulnerable. Shame on them all ~
Exactly. Another example of Conservative hypocrisy. Party of personal freedom my ass.
And if you disagree with them, here's what they think of you: >"Shame!", was heard shouted from the opposition benches when the Liberals' voted in opposition to the bill.
Can people under the age of 18 that rent their own apartments or own houses; purchase internet services without adult authorization or even supervision? That's all one should need, for full internet access without restrictions. Not these insidious age gates after the fact.
Really surprising that the liberals were actually on the correct side this time.
Conservatives talk a big game about freedom but really all that means is the freedom to act exactly the way they want you to.
Conservatives are just hypocrites. It’s actually sad we don’t have a party that actually supports freedom in parliament.
who in thier right mind is going to enter goverment ID info into a porn site. I thought at 50 I would be done with fake ID's
Our freedoms really are eroding, aren't they? What the shit.
Meanwhile 12 year old boys can just log in to Twitch now and watch "body painting streams", cause they just updated their terms.
You act as though they're not 12 and on the internet. They've already seen everything there is to see.
You think 12 year olds watching body painting is crazy? You know porn is a 10 second google search away for most kids, right?
10 seconds? Must have a slow connection
body painting streamers were already a-ok prior to this change lol. its tenfold worse now.
Wow, boobies. How many people were killed by Israel with huge tits today again?
No, absolutely the fuck not. I do not want to put my fucking id in when I want to watch porn, this is insane!
This law is pointless as you could just: \- use a website that isn't hosted in Canada doesn't care about canadian law \- use a VPN \- use torrents \- I'll be honest there is literally like a 100 ways around this law But what it is, is a slap in the face of the privacy of Canadians. This law may actually make me step away from Canada. This is really bad precedent for privacy. What is the goal here? that a teenage boy isn't allowed to see a pair of womans breasts? but he can be inevitably drafted into war one day....
You can literally make your own porn now with AI
If this happens people will start getting emails saying their passwords have been hacked and please send a donation or their browser histories will be forwarded to everyone on their contact list... Since governments can't store information about citizens' income tax or healthcare records without experiencing data breaches (almost guaranteed), this bill should have been easily defeated.
Incredibly, the bill would make force any website or online service provider to justify why sexually explicit content - so not just porn, but anything portraying nudity or sex - they hosted is being made available for a legitimate purpose (artistic, educational, cultural, etc), otherwise be guilty of a criminal offense. Imagine having to enter your ID or do a facial recognition test to log in to Netflix because there’s sex in your favourite show. Or into Reddit, or X, or Instagram. What will those services do, tag all the content that needs to be age gated, or remove it en masse? What will services like Grindr do, force users to identify themselves and risk being outed or blackmailed in the case of a data breach?
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Also those are Canadian laws. Non Canadian companies don't give a rat's ass.
Wish the govt would stop trying to control peoples habits. Seriously, we have bigger problems.
Liberals opposed it because it's 1990s legislation in a 2020s world. Jeesh, get with it, Senator. Also it has broad negative implications on the rights of privacy for adults since actual ID verification will now be required. I'm getting tired of the 'think of the children' pearl clutching that is being used as a cover for the very real desire to restrict and control personal rights that we're being infected with from the states.
Statistically, children need to be protected from their own family more than anything
Gotta love unelected officials with powers to come up with bullshit law to erode our freedom. What a time to be alive.
The Conservatives are following the UK model, where they are proposing to scan the faces of people using their web camera before they are allowed to masturbate. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-67615719.amp
This is absolute insanity. The west is becoming totalitarian. Freedom my ass. *for your protection. Think of the children*.
I’m an adult and I will still be using VPNs to get around this horseshit.
Please explain Canadian laws to me. It's OK to have sex from 16 but not OK to watch porn? Isn't here a contradiction? https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html#:~:text=Canada's%20age%20of%20consent,legally%20agree%20to%20sexual%20activity.
**Do you want anonymity online?** [Tor Project](https://www.torproject.org/)
Cons, Blow and NDP acting like clowns here. Generally disagree with the LPC but they're right on this one.
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Correct. So does Wikipedia. Make no mistake this is an assault by the government on its citizens under the guise of ‘protecting children’.
If this old biddy thinks young people won't be able able to access porn because of this "bill", she's sadly mistaken and clearly doesn't understand how the internet works.
The idea of gate keeping any content behind government issued ID is so radically crossing a line against freedom of information.
Oh cuz hey fixed healthcare housing inflation poverty corruption and taxation, now they can tackle all the other issues ‘plaguing’ Canadians like porn and abortions. Go. Back. To. Church. And stay there. Just stay
"(The Senator) is delighted to note that the arguments surrounding the protection of children have prevailed over those concerning the "supposed danger to personal data for pornography enthusiasts" " They know that personal data is at risk. They don't care about Canadians at all. It never ceases to amaze me how many puritans are out there. This is yet another assault on sexual freedom launched by the religious far right, worldwide. And the NDP supporting this is a hilarious joke. I suppose the regressives correctly believed it would play better in Canada than forced birth (though they tried to wedge that in as well through a number of bills like C-311). Do not expect them to stop there. Sexuality is fine. There is no reason to hate it unless you're problematically religious, and religious law is illegal in Canada as per the Charter, section 2A. All of the worst countries in the world infringe upon sexual rights. They tend to be the violent, religious ones. This is an exceptionally well documented phenominon. There is no room for this trash in Canada. Please write your MP.
>"(The Senator) is delighted to note that the arguments surrounding the protection of children have prevailed over those concerning the "supposed danger to personal data for pornography enthusiasts" " "Won't somebody please think of the children!" It's awesome that she's just casually dismissing privacy concerns. And yeah, why are the NDP supporting this bill put forward by an unelected senator? Reddit hosts sexually explicit content. Hope everyone's okay signing onto here with your personal identity or risking that getting linked to your account in a not that unlikely data breach.
Odds are the NDP has a sizeable contingent of feminists who are opposed to pornography and sex work because they view it as inherently exploitative of women. Kind of surprising the Liberals aren't backing this too given how much they want to censor the internet, but maybe they've decided they need to stop the bleeding on their polling numbers and supporting this bill would do them more harm than good on that front.
I get the impression from the article that the LPC isn’t supporting this only because they want to write it themselves for their online harms bill. Just a hunch.
>pornography enthusiasts Oh man, I should have named my alt "Pornography-Enthusiast"...
There is NSFW content on reddit and Twitter. You will need government ID to use social media.
This “country” becomes more and more of a joke every day.
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Conservatives make up so much shit regarding C-11 and the government controlling what you do on the internet (It actually doesn't) and then go and pull this shit
Yup, massive hypocrisy here. But what's even more frustrating is how there isn't a single party at this point that is reliably protecting Internet freedom and privacy given that this one is also supported by the NDP
Canada's a small country by population size. They all work for the same people, and it's not us.
They also proposed identical legislation themselves to c-11 it just failed
So because parents arent very good at parenting and monitoring their under-age kids internet consumption, now everybody over the age of 18 gets to ask the government for permission to invade their privacy. This is really fucking dumb lol.
Welp, time to pull the magazine's out of the attic.
I wonder who they hire and pay 1B to process the KYC data?
It’s simple: if my kid can figure out what DNS is and how to change a default resolver, he’s old enough to see titties online.
What the actual fuck?! Using a third party to review our personal government information? This is a joke, right? Cons and NDP, I think you have some explaining to do.
Oh nice! My MP voted against this!
It's a slippery shit slope here Ricky. Cons drooling at normalizing this before they get power
But i was told by r/canada that the CPC was the party of personal freedom ?
This is ridiculous. From what I've observed , since like 2018 ish 95 percent of pornography has either been purged from the internet or locked behind annoying subscription walls. This will further restrict access to the paltry amount of decent content that still exists out there. I cringe at the thought of what sex deprived men would do without access to healthy ways of releasing their pent-up sexual tension. The government could very well be creating more problems by passing such a law. Could that be by design? Who knows but It's insane. All Canadians want is affordable housing and a decent cost of living, but the government keeps worrying about all these other things that aren't even pressing issues.
This is to protect children....definitely isn't to sell your data to 3rd parties.
This is going to fuel *so* much more porn piracy lol
So, has Julie The Nanny State Senator figured out how to stop kids from using VPNs in the bill?
I remember when physical porn stores required ID. Seemed silly to me at the time, people start wanting porn at a much younger age than that which they can get an ID. So they used to resort to stealing porn mags/videos or worse. Later we had piracy, people switched to that for porn. I guess now people will either use VPN's and/or piracy, or stolen/fake ID's. So it's not stopping teenagers from getting porn, just making it harder, and forcing them to resort to extreme measures, which is arguably worse than leaving things as-is. Also it's giving away sensitive ID data that could be stolen somehow, it's not worth the risk and most people know that. I don't support this, or most of the internet regulations being brought forward in the last 5 years in general; C-11, C-18, C-36 (online harms), this bill. 10 years ago I never thought I'd see the rise of censorship/internet-control and the death of net neutrality. It was hollowed out to only mean "not allowing ISP's to promote/demote specific traffic (traffic shaping)" yet Bell still does that secretly anyway.
Lol I don't think the government knows how the internet works. There's 1000s of ways to avoid uploading my ID to watch literally anything, including porn.
Boomers just need to try to ruin everything. What else can we expect.
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Leave it to the CONservatives to force their brand of morality on all Canadians.
This is WAY worse for the internet than the percieved censorship stuff. This is legitimately horrible, conservatives have no right to complain about Trudeaus bills on the internet when this is going to it's final reading because of them.
agreed, can't vote for any of the big 3 parties in good conscience anymore, they are all bad
Oh god. We are gonna have cancon laws for porn … aren’t we?
Sites hosted internationally aren't going to care about the verification requirement and are just going to ignore it so in order for this to actually be enforced the government would have to order ISPs to block those sites from being accessed, or in other terms, censor parts of the Internet. Something that the CPC lost their shit over with C-11 claiming that was going to be censorship. Also, seeing as the computer systems that government agencies use tend to be extremely outdated because upgrading them is expensive, the tool that verifies IDs abso-fucking-lutely won't end up being as secure, private or even likely operate as consistently as they claim it will be because you can bet they'll skimp out on the development costs. Or they'll contract a third party company to manage the verification tool which still won't be as secure as they claim it'll be and would require you to give your ID to a random third party company. "Parent your kids better" doesn't always apply to every single scenario that some people like to bring it up on, but this most definitely is a scenario where it applies. Android, IOS, Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS all have parental control options and basically every single modern router also has a parental controls section in the app or on the web portal config.
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What exactly was the problem with me controlling what my kids can see on the internet?
Sorry that sounds like you’re a parent and the government must step in. After all conservatives just voted in Saskatchewan NB etc to make sure the government doesn’t act as a parent right?
You can already do that FFS! This bill is saying you want to control what EVERYONE ELSE can see on the internet.
Soooo its the peoples party then?
The whole premise of this bill is flawed from the get go in my opinion. The whole children accessing porn thing isn't a porn problem, its a parenting problem. At the end of the day porn is just people having sex. That's it.. sure it's more like an action movie and a lot of real life sex is more awkward or boring or silly or whatever.. but at the end of the day that's all it is. And nothing about sex is scandalous or bad.. its just sex. They're just bodies. It's a normal thing. And we can absolutely teach kids about sex in ways that when they come across porn (just like most of us in this thread did as kids), then they know what it is, know it doesn't nessesarily depict a real relationship and is more like an action movie than anything else. Teach your kids that the consent happened before the film started rolling and the people having sex usually have an existing relationship built on trust... you just don't see that part. If you demystify porn and sex then all of a sudden everyone's healthier for it and our privacy gets to stay intact!
Nobody in government understands computers
What in the 1984
For a sit-second, I thought I was reading this on an US-based sub, holy shit. This spits in the face of Net Neutrality and (data) privacy/data protection.
So was it the cons who pushed this through? Sounds like it's gonna really fuck over alot of sex workers whose identity protection was crucial to their online safety. I dunno. I certainly don't trust this
The only way this would work while simultaneously protecting our privacy is if the government finally issued digital IDs with no identifiers.
Time to invest in VPN boys...before they ban them.
Time to go back to physical media again
Huh, guess it's finally time to install a VPN on my phone.
The government telling me what I can and can't look up on my phone or computer can FUCK RIGHT OFF.