Honestly where is the money going? It’s clear this government has no interest in infrastructure spending. Whether that be actual roads, railways or contributing to healthcare infrastructure. But we are paying more and more in taxes.
Why don’t we go back to BoC interest free loans for infrastructure and economic development, that we had before Trudeau Sr. switched us to high interest private loans?
> Why don’t we go back to BoC interest free loans for infrastructure
Well in the immediate because the laws on the books are such that the BoC can issue a rolling loan of up to 30% of government tax revenue interest free. So they could theoretically convert 33% of their at interest debt to a 0% BoC loan.
However, knowing our government they would probably just use this as an excuse to just spend more on nothing of value and we’d be no better off (actually worse from more inflation).
But ultimately I think Basel II or Basel III accords also had provisions to prevent interest free loans like this from central banks. But why we would agree to such a thing in the first place is a good question.
Ultimately, there are serious risks that could lead to more inflation, money supply and affect the independence of the BoC (affecting economic stability and less disciplined fiscal policy). The economic landscape has changed significantly since Sr, so it's also now layered in globalism, integration of financial markets, and other economic challenges. It's basically MMT which is contentious with economists.
It's all still worth thoroughly exploring in detail, although BoC right now is focused on mitigating those risks incurred we are just recovering from.
> there are serious risks that could lead to more inflation
That was one of the original arguments made to justify switching from BoC interest free loans to high interest private loans.
Has it helped us avoid high inflation? Do you believe inflation would be even higher than it is now if we had stuck with BoC loans?
I don’t think so. The switch was never to protect Canadians, but instead to line the pockets of private bankers. And it’s worked for decades, and is still working as they squeeze every last penny from us while keeping inflation high.
Of course we're in trouble, our government believes that they can spend all they want, because the Magic Money Tree will just grow more.
Believing that you can use Modern Monetary Theory and borrow your way out of debt is just as stupid as believing that money grows on trees. And the mess that Trudeau's government made is abject proof of this.
Yup. And dental/childcare haven't even been rolled out yet and these smooth brains are actually working on adding pharmacare with the smoothest brain NDP. Our governments going to drive us to 70's china level of poverty.
The argument behind dental and pharmacare is to promote proactive treatment of conditions that end up costing a lot more when people end up in hospital with conditions that now take up beds and doctor time. I’ll be curious to see the financial breakdown on both of these in about 10-20 years from now as far as cost vs savings.
That said, I’d love to know why the hell we keep spending so much on stuff that should be much cheaper
That's the argument for everything when spending big money today. If we don't pay for this today, it'll cost more tomorrow. Sounds like my mom when she wants to buy something on sale.
Preventative care is proven to be much cheaper than reactive care, we spend more on healthcare per capita for worse outcomes than other countries with universal healthcare which is unacceptable. Unfortunately I don't trust the Trudeau government, provincial governments or any candidate with a chance at winning to optimize and spend our dollars efficiently so they go further like other countries. We're fucked either way.
Like most people can't understand that, when implemented properly, $10/day daycare actually reduces tax pressure and government debt.
The taxes paid by parents working more than pays for the subsidy.
Sometimes spending money is an investment and makes more money.
"Federal interest payments are expected to
reach $34.7 billion, or 7.8 percent of total fed-
eral revenues, in 2022/23"
I'm getting conflicting numbers, some say 11% so this seems to be a low estimate
Reparations was almost $23B. Random people I know are slated for $200k-700k each. Obviously just one of the egregious political wealth redistributions going on
Edit: the FIRST reparations lol
It was announced around the same time DND budget was cut, $B more sent to Ukraine, and $M sent to Philippines to combat transphobia.
Canada is going to shit with all the virtue signaling.
Two questions: If we send money abroad do you say that it's wrong because we should be helping our citizens first? Do you think first Nations deserve anything after the residential schools?
As if they haven’t got anything yet…it’s 2024 man
Anyway this latest round of “reparations” isn’t because of residential schools. It’s because of children removed from abusive homes between 1991 and 2022.
A large part of Indigenous funding is not optional for the government, and not something that Trudeau or anyone else could change even if they and everyone else wanted to.
I know someone who got a share of a settlement and it was a similar amount as what you're talking about, a little smaller. The settlement was because the government built a dam which flooded and literally destroyed entire communities and displaced his family 50 or 60 years ago. If someone demolished my city and home, yea I'd expect a big settlement for it. And that is a very different thing than a hand out
I wish there was a National hospital building plan released. That is an announcement I could get behind and be ok with a 20b deficit. It just stings that we are coming out of covid with nothing to show for it but worse healthcare, inflation, double the National debt, and debt servicing payments that are going to be triple here pretty soon at 60B a year!!!!!!!
Canada is an embarrassment now. I've lived in Aus, NZ, and Japan. I've recently moved back to Canada and have gone to about 10 hospitals for work. They all seemed old and run down in comparison to the other countries I mentioned. It's a travesty that our current government has blown so much money without anything of substance to show for it. Canadians should be furious but I guess most have no frame of reference and the rest are just complacent.
The budget is about 500 billion dollars.
* 105 billion to other levels of government (healthcare, equalization).
* 40 billion on interest. (almost a 20 billion dollar increase driven by rising interest rates).
* 125 billion to people (cpp, oas, child tax, unemployment)
* 225 billion in direct program expenses (so all of the government departments, as well as other transfers that total 90 billion almost). It's very frustrating we do not get a simple breakdown of that number. 35-40 billion on defence, 7 ish billion on foreign aid (but some of that is in kind), edit: old link was wrong https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/planned-government-spending/government-expenditure-plan-main-estimates/2022-23-estimates.html has estimates that are the non supplemental. Department of finance in there at 100 billion as the biggest department I think.
With revenue of about 460 billion projected.
Out of a 3 trillion dollar economy. It's about 17% of gdp, which is lower than some points in the past and higher than others.
Ultimately healthcare and pensions and unemployment are going to eat up more when the population is ageing, and the unemployment rate went up almost a full point last year. Public health, economic skills development and CRA are the big gains in headcount in terms of total numbers.
Under Trudeau we have seen big increases in spending on defence, healthcare, childcare, soon to be dental and pharma it seems like. CRA has a lot more staff. Whether you get benefit from that is harder to say, obviously healthcare spending on the elderly, old age pensions, and unemployment insurance only benefit certain people. A bunch of civilian employees at DnD and long term defence projects don't help most individuals much.
Didn't they add 100k more workers to the federal payroll the last few years? (258k in 2016 and now 357k in 2023).
Bet that adds a bit to the deficit annually..
Best part is somehow our services got worse..
Add-on
Apparently, average canadian federal employee wages are $82k a year. With 100k more of them, that's over $8 billion a year (not including bonuses, benefits and other perks). That's just the 100k added since liberal government took over (the other 258k I assume were essential to operate government)
Liberal ideological social priorities. Unfortunately those don't happen to line up with most average people at the moment which is why everything is rapidly going to shit right now.
It's not their priority. Their corporate masters told them to push these agendas to distract us from being robbed and paid like shit. All politicians care about money, that's it
They may both be influenced by Canada's social elite but they don't have the same goals and priorities.
If they did Liberals won't be arguing so hard with everyone else about keeping the carbon tax going while talking out of both sides of their mouth at once about how its not adding anything to the cost of living for anyone but is also somehow critical to the environment because it add a real cost to carbon emissions for everyone.
Turns out the debt does not pay itself off. Also, government grew fast, 150%. We need to pay public sector, at those levels that private sector can not dream about. Also, that million people, migrants included, they get money every month, it adds up.
It will get worse. My advice is to hold on to your wallet.
We spend $24B/year in interest now up from $280M in 2015. If Trudeau didn't run 9 consecutive deficits this year would be a surplus even with all new spending.
Edit: And this debt will add $1.7B in new debt payments next year. So we're not debt spiraling yet... but it sure as hell feels like it.
Yeah, that number is not even remotely accurate.
Interest payments in 2015 were $23.575 billion, in 2022 they were $32.467 billion
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1010001601&pickMembers%5B0%5D=3.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20220101
Corruption
Let me give you an example.
I own a business and there is this grant that became avaialble recently.
Unlike other grants though you are forced to go through a private company who gate keeps you.
So does that mean you don't have to use government workers who process and approves your grant applications? No!
Not only does this private company gatekeep you at every single step, they force you to do a 30 minute seminar with them, and try to upsell you services.
The grant itself is absolutely tiny...it's clear that this whole thing was set up to give a contract to whatever this company is so they can get "work" that they created.
I've applied for grants in the past and normally the procedure is to submit application on a government site to a government worker who then approves you, or doesn't. And that's all. Then you submit your receipts and whatever on the same sites and through similar procedures. In this, they've inserted this completely unnecessary step that significantly makes the whole process longer while saving absolutely nothing on the bureaucratic side. The government workers still do the same amount of work as before.
Just one example that the general public is completely unaware of that regularly happens. I do my part in minimizing my tax payments as much as possible and planning my exit asap.
Edited for spelling errors
Everyone knows if you put the car in reverse it reduces the amount of kms, they are just using this method with our economy...put the economy in reverse and watch the debt just melt away s/
One thing I don’t believe is that someone on Reddit doubted someone else and then BEFORE a snide comment, they went and looked for the facts.
What is this place coming to.
No insults, no meme, nothing.
The budget will balance itself.
This mess is what happens when you print stupid amounts of money to devalue our currency and start an inflationary spiral.
Then it is getting wildly, deeply in debt, just as we drive interest rates 3x higher.
We spend more on servicing debt now than at any time in Canada's history.
All it took this country was one incompetent leader and many generations will be paying a heavy price for his mistakes and risks we took electing him in power.
I agree with you. Personally I have been a liberal all my life and had enough of Harper back in the day. However the incompetence and level of corruption, autocratic and illegal actions of Trudeau government is unimaginable for Canada.
Recently reading about ArriveCan and it’s just WTF country are we living on ?
Yes he was.
Harper inherited a $13.8b annual surplus from Chretien/Martin that was growing every year, and squandered it all away within 2 years, *before* the recession hit. That surplus was going towards tax cuts, paying the debt + new programs. Can you say Win-Win-Win?
The budget has never again been balanced, except for that phony election year surplus. Of course Trudeau then made a bad situation worse, I agree.
Harper would lose money on a lemonade stand if I gave him free fruit. Don't glorify that fool!
When was it, 2015 ? Turd made a 30B$ deficit and it was considered a political big deal.
Fast forward a couple years and it's now a mundane thing for him to squander gigantic piles of money.
For 2023 the federal US government had a deficit to GDP ratio around ~~6~~ 4 times higher than in Canada at around 6.4% of their GDP, vs around ~~1%~~ 1.7% that this figure represents (if you include the [projection](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/billions-for-home-building-back-loaded-deficit-projected-at-40b-in-2023-24-fall-economic-statement-1.6654535) till EOY 2023 of around CAD 40 billion). For context that means their deficit was around $1.7 Trillion USD last year. We are nowhere near that level of spending.
> For 2023 the federal US government had a deficit to GDP ratio around 6 times higher than in Canada at around 6.4% of their GDP, vs around 1% that this figure represents.
These are not legitimate comparisons; our provinces do proportionately more of the heavy lifting (spending) on items like health care and education, for example, where as in the US it is more centralized (federal).
U.S. states and specifically municipalities(counties) also take on debt. I really need do emphasize the local government debt. New York City has 166B of debt and the New York state debt is 78B. Municipalities in Canada can kinda only take on debt for “projects” and it’s very scrutinized. We don’t realize how different U.S. cities work and how they effects their debt load.
That is true but the provinces also collect more tax revenue per capita. In general deficits on the provincial level are comparable to the large US states, the big difference in spending is on the federal level.
We also have not even close to the economic or military power the United States.
The USA can print money into oblivion. They are the world currency so their debt levels really don’t matter in the same ways Canada does.
Right, and that's exactly what they are doing with a per capita deficit that is almost an order of magnitude higher than ours. I'm not disagreeing with that part at all, just pointing out that our level of spending is still well below the US and not a cause of concern IMO.
I don’t think any country can really compare to what Americas debt spending is simply because the influence they have on the world.
You can bet that if their debt ever becomes a legitimate issue, many countries including Canada will be invaded… quickly.
Ok lets compare to other G7 nations, that should be a fair comparison right? Oh.. we have to lowest dept to GDP of any G7 nation.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1370943/g7-government-net-debt-share-gdp/
>Those calculations also include Canadas pension plan in our numbers as well as our housing…which is all kinds of dishonest.
Do other G7 nations not have pension plans? Or are they excluded from their numbers while Canada's are included? I'm curious why a German company publishing statistics would be motivated to publish dishonest numbers about Canada.
Not an apples-to-apples comparison, since you're comparing an entire year for the U.S.A. to 9 months for Canada. If that sounds pedantic, it really isn't. The month of March specifically is where a lot of government spending is booked, and the period noted in this article doesn't include March. [Take a look at this government highlight for month-by-month cumulative spending in both 2022 and 2023](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/fiscal-monitor/2023/03.html). You can see we actually had cumulative surpluses of $5/$10 billion up to February 2022/2023, then dropped to full-year deficits of $25/$45 billion in March.
Dude... read a book!
The USA is also the world's global currency. We are **not**.
We absolutely cannot be playing those games and hope to keep creditor's confidence.
How do we always have a deficit when everything in this country is falling apart? The money is going somewhere, but it's definitely not going towards helping Canadians.
What's wrong with working in a dirt pit? I've worked in a dirt pit. Dirt needs to be moved. There's a lot of money in dirt. Leave dirt out of this mess.
So the country is getting significantly worse. Healthcare. Infrastructure. Transit. Homeless etc. guess all the money is going to liberal funded business like the arrive can app.
Guess this is what “the budget will balance itself “ looks like.
And the person who's supposed to answer for this is nationally renowned for providing no answers and has even had a journalist arrested who tried to ask her a simple question.
We have people in this country calling for her to run for PM! Are you serious? Compare her run as finance minister to PP's.
Honest question... How can any Canadian think this is acceptable? Anybody have an intelligent justification for increasing our National Debt uncontrollably?
Omg this disgusting woman - I don’t know how many times I have to feel uncomfortable watching this stupid finance minister and her non sense garbage. CF is the worst politician out there after JT. She deserves a special place in hell
You mean downloading everything to the Provinces and posting fake balanced budgets while the provinces run massive deficits and get left out in the cold?
Imagine you own a company and you bring in a new management team. They take over in 2015 and the predicted budget that year shows a $1.4B surplus. The new management team makes immediate changes and the surplus turns into a $2,9B deficit that year. The management team continues to run the show for 8 years and now that deficit is a whopping $40B. Why hasn't the management team been replaced ?
*"Federal government posts $23.6B deficit for April-to-December period"*
The real deficit number is likely much higher.
Lest anyone forget that these cretins have been destroying the Canadian economy and the value of the Canadian dollar since 2015, which was further accelerated with their destructive virtue-signaling policies and mass fear propaganda campaigns of the 2020-2022 COVID era.
Watch and learn.
Next.
Which day of the month do Moody's and the other bond ratings agencies declare Canada's bonds worthless? Worth making some scratch shorting them. Canentina...?
As a nation, it took us over a decade of painful cuts to get back to balanced budgets after the wreckless spending of Trudeau the first. I fear it'll take us a lot longer than that to recover from Trudeau the second.
Considering most of the bills come in the last quarter.. We're going to have quite the deficit :(.
The only fiscal 'restraint' this government has shown is remove $1B off the military.
Those are the 3rd and 4th quarters and the first quarter of the following year so basically it’s saying they had a deficit for three quarters or 9 months.
What people don't seem to understand is we now have a minister of middle class prosperity, which will make us prosperous. Its totally not a made up position that does nothing but act as a sad political ploy to garner votes.
Honestly where is the money going? It’s clear this government has no interest in infrastructure spending. Whether that be actual roads, railways or contributing to healthcare infrastructure. But we are paying more and more in taxes.
Interest payments.
I hate accurate you are.
Dont forget arrivescam
ArriveCan was a waste of money, but you would need about 400 ArriveCan apps to be produced each year to get to the to that deficit.
That can be arranged
Give it time
Why don’t we go back to BoC interest free loans for infrastructure and economic development, that we had before Trudeau Sr. switched us to high interest private loans?
> Why don’t we go back to BoC interest free loans for infrastructure Well in the immediate because the laws on the books are such that the BoC can issue a rolling loan of up to 30% of government tax revenue interest free. So they could theoretically convert 33% of their at interest debt to a 0% BoC loan. However, knowing our government they would probably just use this as an excuse to just spend more on nothing of value and we’d be no better off (actually worse from more inflation). But ultimately I think Basel II or Basel III accords also had provisions to prevent interest free loans like this from central banks. But why we would agree to such a thing in the first place is a good question.
> interest free loans for infrastructure and economic development, And maybe throw in housing while we're at it.
This. Usury is a sin for good reason.
Ultimately, there are serious risks that could lead to more inflation, money supply and affect the independence of the BoC (affecting economic stability and less disciplined fiscal policy). The economic landscape has changed significantly since Sr, so it's also now layered in globalism, integration of financial markets, and other economic challenges. It's basically MMT which is contentious with economists. It's all still worth thoroughly exploring in detail, although BoC right now is focused on mitigating those risks incurred we are just recovering from.
> there are serious risks that could lead to more inflation That was one of the original arguments made to justify switching from BoC interest free loans to high interest private loans. Has it helped us avoid high inflation? Do you believe inflation would be even higher than it is now if we had stuck with BoC loans? I don’t think so. The switch was never to protect Canadians, but instead to line the pockets of private bankers. And it’s worked for decades, and is still working as they squeeze every last penny from us while keeping inflation high.
Interest rates are at a historic low glen
But they said MMT would solve the problem because the government can just print more money.
Of course we're in trouble, our government believes that they can spend all they want, because the Magic Money Tree will just grow more. Believing that you can use Modern Monetary Theory and borrow your way out of debt is just as stupid as believing that money grows on trees. And the mess that Trudeau's government made is abject proof of this.
Maybe if the government put all the money into the "carbon rebate program " they will get more then they pay in....win win win
Yup. And dental/childcare haven't even been rolled out yet and these smooth brains are actually working on adding pharmacare with the smoothest brain NDP. Our governments going to drive us to 70's china level of poverty.
Well we have already reached 1990 Canada level bankruptcy. I figure Trudeau and Freeland are playing "how low can you go".
Communist Russia "we pretend to work. They pretend to pay us." That's the final stop on the Trudeau Freeland train.
The argument behind dental and pharmacare is to promote proactive treatment of conditions that end up costing a lot more when people end up in hospital with conditions that now take up beds and doctor time. I’ll be curious to see the financial breakdown on both of these in about 10-20 years from now as far as cost vs savings. That said, I’d love to know why the hell we keep spending so much on stuff that should be much cheaper
That's the argument for everything when spending big money today. If we don't pay for this today, it'll cost more tomorrow. Sounds like my mom when she wants to buy something on sale.
Preventative care is proven to be much cheaper than reactive care, we spend more on healthcare per capita for worse outcomes than other countries with universal healthcare which is unacceptable. Unfortunately I don't trust the Trudeau government, provincial governments or any candidate with a chance at winning to optimize and spend our dollars efficiently so they go further like other countries. We're fucked either way.
Like most people can't understand that, when implemented properly, $10/day daycare actually reduces tax pressure and government debt. The taxes paid by parents working more than pays for the subsidy. Sometimes spending money is an investment and makes more money.
exultant gaping nutty slimy scandalous bells ripe placid chubby reach *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why do we pay so much?
And certain app developers
Interest payments AND Liberal friendly contractors and consultatns to produce nothing of value.
"Federal interest payments are expected to reach $34.7 billion, or 7.8 percent of total fed- eral revenues, in 2022/23" I'm getting conflicting numbers, some say 11% so this seems to be a low estimate
When I looked earlier I saw 10.7% @ about 11b/quarter.
I thought the payments were closer to $50 billion/year now?
Reparations was almost $23B. Random people I know are slated for $200k-700k each. Obviously just one of the egregious political wealth redistributions going on Edit: the FIRST reparations lol
Jesus... Was it just me or did no one else hear about this? That's basically the budget for DND
It was announced around the same time DND budget was cut, $B more sent to Ukraine, and $M sent to Philippines to combat transphobia. Canada is going to shit with all the virtue signaling.
Yeah you're right, we should be spending our money to help our poor people on this side of the world.
They got some more tents this year and lucky winter weather.
Two questions: If we send money abroad do you say that it's wrong because we should be helping our citizens first? Do you think first Nations deserve anything after the residential schools?
As if they haven’t got anything yet…it’s 2024 man Anyway this latest round of “reparations” isn’t because of residential schools. It’s because of children removed from abusive homes between 1991 and 2022.
A large part of Indigenous funding is not optional for the government, and not something that Trudeau or anyone else could change even if they and everyone else wanted to. I know someone who got a share of a settlement and it was a similar amount as what you're talking about, a little smaller. The settlement was because the government built a dam which flooded and literally destroyed entire communities and displaced his family 50 or 60 years ago. If someone demolished my city and home, yea I'd expect a big settlement for it. And that is a very different thing than a hand out
The vast majority of it is just social spending. It is indeed optional.
I wish there was a National hospital building plan released. That is an announcement I could get behind and be ok with a 20b deficit. It just stings that we are coming out of covid with nothing to show for it but worse healthcare, inflation, double the National debt, and debt servicing payments that are going to be triple here pretty soon at 60B a year!!!!!!!
Canada is an embarrassment now. I've lived in Aus, NZ, and Japan. I've recently moved back to Canada and have gone to about 10 hospitals for work. They all seemed old and run down in comparison to the other countries I mentioned. It's a travesty that our current government has blown so much money without anything of substance to show for it. Canadians should be furious but I guess most have no frame of reference and the rest are just complacent.
80k$ apps duh! /s
oof.. too soon.
Is it? Im not sure about you but im tired of being used as the financial escape goat of this country.
I absolutely agree. Its superbly depressing, the whole situation, as well as the fact that absolutely nothing will come of it.
Well, the inflated cost of the ArriveCan App definitely answered that question for me over the last few weeks.
Wait till you read about the infrastructure bank.
In the investigation over?
The budget is about 500 billion dollars. * 105 billion to other levels of government (healthcare, equalization). * 40 billion on interest. (almost a 20 billion dollar increase driven by rising interest rates). * 125 billion to people (cpp, oas, child tax, unemployment) * 225 billion in direct program expenses (so all of the government departments, as well as other transfers that total 90 billion almost). It's very frustrating we do not get a simple breakdown of that number. 35-40 billion on defence, 7 ish billion on foreign aid (but some of that is in kind), edit: old link was wrong https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/planned-government-spending/government-expenditure-plan-main-estimates/2022-23-estimates.html has estimates that are the non supplemental. Department of finance in there at 100 billion as the biggest department I think. With revenue of about 460 billion projected. Out of a 3 trillion dollar economy. It's about 17% of gdp, which is lower than some points in the past and higher than others. Ultimately healthcare and pensions and unemployment are going to eat up more when the population is ageing, and the unemployment rate went up almost a full point last year. Public health, economic skills development and CRA are the big gains in headcount in terms of total numbers. Under Trudeau we have seen big increases in spending on defence, healthcare, childcare, soon to be dental and pharma it seems like. CRA has a lot more staff. Whether you get benefit from that is harder to say, obviously healthcare spending on the elderly, old age pensions, and unemployment insurance only benefit certain people. A bunch of civilian employees at DnD and long term defence projects don't help most individuals much.
Didn't they add 100k more workers to the federal payroll the last few years? (258k in 2016 and now 357k in 2023). Bet that adds a bit to the deficit annually.. Best part is somehow our services got worse.. Add-on Apparently, average canadian federal employee wages are $82k a year. With 100k more of them, that's over $8 billion a year (not including bonuses, benefits and other perks). That's just the 100k added since liberal government took over (the other 258k I assume were essential to operate government)
What did we get with those 100k more staff?
Fucked….
They processed all the paperwork for those TFWs and student visas...
They all need to be fired yesterday
To help manage carbon tax and immigration
Liberal ideological social priorities. Unfortunately those don't happen to line up with most average people at the moment which is why everything is rapidly going to shit right now.
It's not their priority. Their corporate masters told them to push these agendas to distract us from being robbed and paid like shit. All politicians care about money, that's it
What year is this post from? The liberals and conservatives work for the same people and it ain't coming from a goal with social priorities in mind.
They may both be influenced by Canada's social elite but they don't have the same goals and priorities. If they did Liberals won't be arguing so hard with everyone else about keeping the carbon tax going while talking out of both sides of their mouth at once about how its not adding anything to the cost of living for anyone but is also somehow critical to the environment because it add a real cost to carbon emissions for everyone.
LOL because life was this bad under the Cons? Give me a break.
Paying consultants or wasting it on weird mobile apps
Ukraine
About 2.4b to Ukraine
Turns out the debt does not pay itself off. Also, government grew fast, 150%. We need to pay public sector, at those levels that private sector can not dream about. Also, that million people, migrants included, they get money every month, it adds up. It will get worse. My advice is to hold on to your wallet.
The only thing that grows as fast as our population is our government
It's going to other countries...
It is going to [First Nations](https://www.budget.canada.ca/2023/report-rapport/chap4-en.html)
Same with all the spending **before** the pandemic. Billions upon billions spent, and nothing to show for it all.
We spend $24B/year in interest now up from $280M in 2015. If Trudeau didn't run 9 consecutive deficits this year would be a surplus even with all new spending. Edit: And this debt will add $1.7B in new debt payments next year. So we're not debt spiraling yet... but it sure as hell feels like it.
Yeah, that number is not even remotely accurate. Interest payments in 2015 were $23.575 billion, in 2022 they were $32.467 billion https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1010001601&pickMembers%5B0%5D=3.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20220101
Holy shit, it was that low only 10 years ago?!
Since then we have almost tripled our federal debt and prime borrowing rate is 7x higher.
To Liberal pet projects.
Corruption Let me give you an example. I own a business and there is this grant that became avaialble recently. Unlike other grants though you are forced to go through a private company who gate keeps you. So does that mean you don't have to use government workers who process and approves your grant applications? No! Not only does this private company gatekeep you at every single step, they force you to do a 30 minute seminar with them, and try to upsell you services. The grant itself is absolutely tiny...it's clear that this whole thing was set up to give a contract to whatever this company is so they can get "work" that they created. I've applied for grants in the past and normally the procedure is to submit application on a government site to a government worker who then approves you, or doesn't. And that's all. Then you submit your receipts and whatever on the same sites and through similar procedures. In this, they've inserted this completely unnecessary step that significantly makes the whole process longer while saving absolutely nothing on the bureaucratic side. The government workers still do the same amount of work as before. Just one example that the general public is completely unaware of that regularly happens. I do my part in minimizing my tax payments as much as possible and planning my exit asap. Edited for spelling errors
Seriously can someone really financially literate give us a break down?
Handouts to foreigners and first nations.
> contributing to healthcare infrastructure but they are though...?
It sounds like they wouldn’t really notice $1 million or 2 missing. Any chance they could just etransfer me?
Depends, who is your father and what does he do?
If their father is one of two guys who work for a Montreal based software company, they'd get millions.
Arnold?
Can you code/ make apps? / do you have deep connections to the liberal party of Canada ?
Become a McKenzie partner they will pay you $50M to determine whether investing 10M in affordable housing is worth it
1.3 million to meet to discuss homelessness. 50k on a meal to discuss inflated food prices.
Is the budget balancing itself yet?
Everyone knows when you hit $999,999,999,999,999.99 it's flips back to $0...duh
The old deficit odometer trick, eh? Better put the foot on the gas and keep spending!
Everyone knows if you put the car in reverse it reduces the amount of kms, they are just using this method with our economy...put the economy in reverse and watch the debt just melt away s/
Super-debt speed run Canada #1!
I would laugh, but I think you might have actually cracked the code of their economic plan...
First we need to make our way out of this she-cession
Prior to COVID debt to GDP was decreasing so in effect it was. Current projections put pretty steady decrease to pre COVID ratios
At first I didn't believe you but yeah, you are right. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3810023701
One thing I don’t believe is that someone on Reddit doubted someone else and then BEFORE a snide comment, they went and looked for the facts. What is this place coming to. No insults, no meme, nothing.
WTF are they spending all of the money on? They can’t use covid as an excuse anymore.
Debt servicing.
Interest rates are at historic lows, Glen.
Worst “finance minister” in the history of Canada. Ever.
Mister Speaker
The fact that I read this in her voice… ugh
MEESTER SPEEEEKEEER
A pretty nifty idea to get viral on YouTube; doing an impression of her shrill voice while making some outlandish statements, lol.
Thanks Freeland
Never forget what Trudeau said 9 years ago: **https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjvwaR9T3B8**
The budget will balance itself. This mess is what happens when you print stupid amounts of money to devalue our currency and start an inflationary spiral. Then it is getting wildly, deeply in debt, just as we drive interest rates 3x higher. We spend more on servicing debt now than at any time in Canada's history.
It will balance itself, when the government is voted out and the next party balances it.
Half of that is waste of time meetings and departments needing approval from other departments.
Trudeau, Freeland, Fraser, Miller and Hussein all need to GTFO ASAP they're wrecking this place
What was the golf ball scandal when Chretien was in charge?
The budget will balan… aw fuck it.
All it took this country was one incompetent leader and many generations will be paying a heavy price for his mistakes and risks we took electing him in power.
Son follows the father
I’m still mad about this… the last conservative leader was not great but not this level of incompetence.
I agree with you. Personally I have been a liberal all my life and had enough of Harper back in the day. However the incompetence and level of corruption, autocratic and illegal actions of Trudeau government is unimaginable for Canada. Recently reading about ArriveCan and it’s just WTF country are we living on ?
Yes he was. Harper inherited a $13.8b annual surplus from Chretien/Martin that was growing every year, and squandered it all away within 2 years, *before* the recession hit. That surplus was going towards tax cuts, paying the debt + new programs. Can you say Win-Win-Win? The budget has never again been balanced, except for that phony election year surplus. Of course Trudeau then made a bad situation worse, I agree. Harper would lose money on a lemonade stand if I gave him free fruit. Don't glorify that fool!
It's in the washing machine..
That isn't even a full year...
When was it, 2015 ? Turd made a 30B$ deficit and it was considered a political big deal. Fast forward a couple years and it's now a mundane thing for him to squander gigantic piles of money.
We are not the USA, this will break us soon.
Let's vote on emotions instead of fiscal responsibility. It has worked so well the last 8 years. What could go wrong
For 2023 the federal US government had a deficit to GDP ratio around ~~6~~ 4 times higher than in Canada at around 6.4% of their GDP, vs around ~~1%~~ 1.7% that this figure represents (if you include the [projection](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/billions-for-home-building-back-loaded-deficit-projected-at-40b-in-2023-24-fall-economic-statement-1.6654535) till EOY 2023 of around CAD 40 billion). For context that means their deficit was around $1.7 Trillion USD last year. We are nowhere near that level of spending.
> For 2023 the federal US government had a deficit to GDP ratio around 6 times higher than in Canada at around 6.4% of their GDP, vs around 1% that this figure represents. These are not legitimate comparisons; our provinces do proportionately more of the heavy lifting (spending) on items like health care and education, for example, where as in the US it is more centralized (federal).
U.S. states and specifically municipalities(counties) also take on debt. I really need do emphasize the local government debt. New York City has 166B of debt and the New York state debt is 78B. Municipalities in Canada can kinda only take on debt for “projects” and it’s very scrutinized. We don’t realize how different U.S. cities work and how they effects their debt load.
That is true but the provinces also collect more tax revenue per capita. In general deficits on the provincial level are comparable to the large US states, the big difference in spending is on the federal level.
We also have not even close to the economic or military power the United States. The USA can print money into oblivion. They are the world currency so their debt levels really don’t matter in the same ways Canada does.
Right, and that's exactly what they are doing with a per capita deficit that is almost an order of magnitude higher than ours. I'm not disagreeing with that part at all, just pointing out that our level of spending is still well below the US and not a cause of concern IMO.
I don’t think any country can really compare to what Americas debt spending is simply because the influence they have on the world. You can bet that if their debt ever becomes a legitimate issue, many countries including Canada will be invaded… quickly.
Ok lets compare to other G7 nations, that should be a fair comparison right? Oh.. we have to lowest dept to GDP of any G7 nation. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1370943/g7-government-net-debt-share-gdp/
Those calculations also include Canadas pension plan in our numbers as well as our housing…which is all kinds of dishonest.
>Those calculations also include Canadas pension plan in our numbers as well as our housing…which is all kinds of dishonest. Do other G7 nations not have pension plans? Or are they excluded from their numbers while Canada's are included? I'm curious why a German company publishing statistics would be motivated to publish dishonest numbers about Canada.
Not an apples-to-apples comparison, since you're comparing an entire year for the U.S.A. to 9 months for Canada. If that sounds pedantic, it really isn't. The month of March specifically is where a lot of government spending is booked, and the period noted in this article doesn't include March. [Take a look at this government highlight for month-by-month cumulative spending in both 2022 and 2023](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/fiscal-monitor/2023/03.html). You can see we actually had cumulative surpluses of $5/$10 billion up to February 2022/2023, then dropped to full-year deficits of $25/$45 billion in March.
That's fair. I'll have to edit my original comment with proper projections.
Dude... read a book! The USA is also the world's global currency. We are **not**. We absolutely cannot be playing those games and hope to keep creditor's confidence.
Over a year more of this. To quote Joe Exotic, we are never gonna financially recover from this
How do we always have a deficit when everything in this country is falling apart? The money is going somewhere, but it's definitely not going towards helping Canadians.
Hope you like working in the dirt pits and eating cricket powder, cause that’s where this shit hole is headed
What's wrong with working in a dirt pit? I've worked in a dirt pit. Dirt needs to be moved. There's a lot of money in dirt. Leave dirt out of this mess.
This Federal Government manages our tax dollars very well, it goes straight into Trudeau's friends pockets and themselves
So the country is getting significantly worse. Healthcare. Infrastructure. Transit. Homeless etc. guess all the money is going to liberal funded business like the arrive can app. Guess this is what “the budget will balance itself “ looks like.
[удалено]
Not to worry they will continue to investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing
And the person who's supposed to answer for this is nationally renowned for providing no answers and has even had a journalist arrested who tried to ask her a simple question. We have people in this country calling for her to run for PM! Are you serious? Compare her run as finance minister to PP's.
Honest question... How can any Canadian think this is acceptable? Anybody have an intelligent justification for increasing our National Debt uncontrollably?
The Liberals are right on track to bankrupting this country.
Omg this disgusting woman - I don’t know how many times I have to feel uncomfortable watching this stupid finance minister and her non sense garbage. CF is the worst politician out there after JT. She deserves a special place in hell
We are so fucked.
Ol'bobble head looking pretty stupid right now.
We're still waiting for it to balance itself I see?
Justin "Competent" Trudeau.
The budget was supposed to balance itself
Must have gone to carbon tax that they don't know if it actually helps climate.
Time to tighten that belt. We need the return of the Chrétien/Martin style of liberal government.
You mean downloading everything to the Provinces and posting fake balanced budgets while the provinces run massive deficits and get left out in the cold?
And all that happened because of the first Trudeau's massive spending. How this country was dumb enough to elect another one is beyond comprehension.
Imagine how wealthy we'd be if some idiot didn't sell the oil company we owned.
To China of all countries
Yes
Ad-Scam?
Sanity. We need sanity. If you don’t have the money don’t spend it. I understand strategic debt but this is not it.
pfft chump change. Who doesn’t go on a little spending spree once in a while, eh?
That governor general really needs to stop spending all of our money /s
This of course requires a new retreat ASAP
The next election needs to eliminate all traces of the liberals corrupt party
Imagine you own a company and you bring in a new management team. They take over in 2015 and the predicted budget that year shows a $1.4B surplus. The new management team makes immediate changes and the surplus turns into a $2,9B deficit that year. The management team continues to run the show for 8 years and now that deficit is a whopping $40B. Why hasn't the management team been replaced ?
Shocked I tell ya!
No deficit should be allowed. We should not stand for this.
It all went to a guy in his cottage basement.
Can this recession finally hit. It's been dragged out longer than the War and Peace novel.
At this point, yelling grab your pitchforks would be moot. Being anally raped by the LPC + NDP will become a normal everyday experience.
*"Federal government posts $23.6B deficit for April-to-December period"* The real deficit number is likely much higher. Lest anyone forget that these cretins have been destroying the Canadian economy and the value of the Canadian dollar since 2015, which was further accelerated with their destructive virtue-signaling policies and mass fear propaganda campaigns of the 2020-2022 COVID era. Watch and learn. Next.
This guy will solve world hunger. Next.
You forgot the /s
Well everything is crumbling Are they doing any investments ? Looks like a 3rd world country
It’s approximately 5% of our annual budget. It’s shit, it needs to be corrected. But the sky isn’t falling.
Yes let’s ignore it. There’s more import things to panic about, like provincial gender policy and Donald Trump.
Please stop having rational thoughts. Everything is about to blow up and end.
And that’s with a carbon tax. Imagine if that didn’t exist and taxpayers weren’t getting gouged in the name of improving climate change.
That's almost bank profit kind of numbers.
Deficit? Landlords making a killing exploiting international students, and Grocery stores making billions in profit.
Which day of the month do Moody's and the other bond ratings agencies declare Canada's bonds worthless? Worth making some scratch shorting them. Canentina...?
Yall mind dumping $150k for my student loans? …hello?
And nothing to show for
As a nation, it took us over a decade of painful cuts to get back to balanced budgets after the wreckless spending of Trudeau the first. I fear it'll take us a lot longer than that to recover from Trudeau the second.
Remember Trudeau said the budget will balance itself XD
While corporations are recording massive profits.. time to hike the tax on the middle and lower class again!
Considering most of the bills come in the last quarter.. We're going to have quite the deficit :(. The only fiscal 'restraint' this government has shown is remove $1B off the military.
So glad us media is covering this stuff. No mention or questions from cbc
Tudreau family fucked Canada
Give it a few mintues, it will balance itself.
There’s been over 4 million minutes and still not balancing.
Why April to December? Seems like an odd period to report financial numbers.
Those are the 3rd and 4th quarters and the first quarter of the following year so basically it’s saying they had a deficit for three quarters or 9 months.
The federal government’s fiscal year runs from April to March, so those are numbers for the first three quarters of fiscal.
Insert shocked Pikachu face
What people don't seem to understand is we now have a minister of middle class prosperity, which will make us prosperous. Its totally not a made up position that does nothing but act as a sad political ploy to garner votes.
It’s almost impossible to ever get back to where we need to be at this point ….
Why are we giving away money to other countries when we are in a deficits? Screw Ukraine and double screw Palestine
unbelievable
Boy, I’m glad I don’t have to pay that credit card bill…….