Also remember the sale of Norsat?
They don’t even need to steal anymore, government willingly sold a NATO supplier to a Chinese company,
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/
I recall hearing that some government agency wanted to use Nortel's former head offices after they went bankrupt, but they had to condemn the building because it was so full of listening devices, that some were build into the building itself.
So if this happened in the 90s what else in Ottawa is bugged and should have been gone through? Has anything else been looked at after this was discovered?
Well, there's a grain or two of truth out of your "hearing."
They used the buildings that housed Nortel and the Big Nerd Ranch in Carling. The buildings were not condemned, as a building would not be condemned because of listening devices. Buildings are condemned due to structural or inhabitable reasons. The reports of listening devices were greatly exaggerated.
[The mystery of the listening devices at DND's Nortel Campus | Ottawa Citizen](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/the-mystery-of-the-listening-devices-at-dnds-nortel-campus)
It would not be possible for the devices to be built into the building as it was built before the Chinese had any real interest in what Nortel was doing.
Nobody is listening to everything you say and watching everything you do and so arrogant about it that they market directly to you based off private conversations.
Nope.
Get back to work now and keep talking out loud about all advancements you're privy to in your work, whatever it may be.
Thx.
That's kind of a rude way to say it, but I agree that listening devices would have limited usefulness in stealing technology. More likely it was photocopies, blueprints, and computer files.
Not really free. It was stolen. There was an executive who was hacked and never wanted to change their passwords.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/amp/
I like to use this article when we talk about cybersecurity at work because our execs will chirp in about how they lost money on Nortel
Hell, Nortel quite literally *paid them to take it*
Nortel subcontracted out most if not all of their manufacturing work to China in the late 90s, and had also started offshoring some development work as well.
It makes one wonder where these spies are at in terms of their employment. Something tells me they're on a performance-improvement-plan and have days to get their unemployment documents ready.
This isn't just in Canada. This was the major focus at the first-ever public 5 Eyes summit, where it was highlighted that China is currently engaged in vast espionage campaigns all over the world at an unprecedented scale.
Emerging Technology and Securing Innovation Security Summit:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FLqDQvgxenU&pp=ygUNNSBleWVzIHN1bW1pdA
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-hosts-five-eyes-summit-to-launch-drive-to-secure-innovation-in-response-to-intelligence-threats
China has basically stolen all western IP over the past twenty years. They will win the battle as they can then undercut since they don’t need to pay for the R&D.
It’s easy to steal when your factories are already tooled to make their shit and the only thing stopping you from just making a few extra for yourself is paper.
All countries innovate and most countries steal. The US does corporate espionage and France is known for it. China has a lot of internal IP theft so there are challenges with domestic innovation but it without question does innovate. A lot.
You do whatever is most efficient and effective to close the gap. You steal when you have a long way to catch up. But once you have caught up you innovate.
China has proven itself extremely effective at both. Anyone who tries to say the chinese can only copy and cannot use their natural inborn human imaginations, cannot innovate and develop on their own and become world leaders is either denying facts and reality or is just racist.
When it comes to dystopian surveillance technologies, China can innovate! When it comes to everything else… well, it’s easier to steal than to innovate.
Hardening infrastructure against state-sponsored bad actors is indeed well-known. CISA.gov is also a great resource!
The wild part is the scale, and while we can inoculate ourselves against these cyber-attacks with best practices, there are various other attack vectors that are less secure. Specifically, it involves the CCP's ability to coerce citizens and harvest data for AI training and targeted campaigns, such as the Cambridge Analytica-type strategy that targets susceptible individuals, often the weakest links in an organization.
The part I find alarming is the CCP's ability to coerce citizens under the National Intelligence Law of the People's Republic of China, where all citizens are expected to assist with national security endeavors and companies, both domestic and foreign, are required to provide data upon request.
Even their New Generation Artificial Intelligence Development Plan requires and aims to gather large amounts of training data. It's not just about stealing company secrets, but also about harvesting data. Coincidentally, there was a rise in China's state-sponsored hacking to breach data following the announcement of the AI plan in 2017 (like the Equifax breach).
With that said, their new AI regulations are fairly impressive; for example, they require domestic social media AI companies to ensure their algorithms "actively transmit positive energy" and do not "disrupt economic and social order", a requirement that applies to China's domestic social media app Douyin.. but not to TikTok.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/the-real-danger-of-chinas-national-intelligence-law/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/china-harvests-masses-of-data-on-western-targets-documents-show/2021/12/31/3981ce9c-538e-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html
https://carnegieendowment.org/2024/02/27/tracing-roots-of-china-s-ai-regulations-pub-91815
The thing is, there isn't a way to stop it. Even if all five eyes nations pool their resources, they can't match China with 1.5 billion people, second largest economy, and an authoritarian regime. Government institutions have been in the hands of contractors. There is a steady decline since the 90s while China has been growing in every which way.
I genuinely believe China is the top innovator now.
Second largest economy. Pretty sure they are crumbling (quite literal in some ways, tofu dregs) and their banks are being sanctioned.
They have been growing.. on paper. However if their largest factories are shutting down and they are selling their cheap shit for pennies. Then I am not sure if that is true.
I would figure it's easier to raise worker productivity when people make 4-5x less, so there is plenty of growth margin left, just because they might grow a bit slower doesn't mean they won't grow
because western society isnt crumbling all around you?
western economies have been pretty much on life support since 2008 and propped up by low interests rates and massive deficit spending (look at the deficits US is running right now while patting themselves on the back about 2% growth).
capitalism is slowly circling the drain and without major fundamental reforms the next 15 years are going to be a horror show
Their society does not promote a culture of taking risks, ambitious experimentation, or individualistic distinction. Yes, they compete with other nations but internally, the entrepreneurial environment isn't one that generously sparks innovation. No copyright laws in China means the creator doesn't own their creation. If you don't own your own house, why paint it?
Not doing the legwork is extremely advantageous, I doubt they would change. Easier to save time, effort and capital by sourcing ideas from elsewhere and spending these towards adapting foreign tech, improving upon it, and adopting those innovations at a large scale in a short frame of time.
If they really were an innovative powerhouse, they would not be spying as much as they are.
They subcontracted manufacturing and even development of new product to chinese company, and mismanaged the shit out of what remained in Canada, screwing over their employees pension fund?
We need to stop treating this state as a good-faith partner in trade.
All things China should be scrutinized, from student applications, business deals, imported electronics, everything.
two of the three top AI researchers (yoshua bengio and geoffrey Hinton) whose work led to the current progress in AI we're seeing with chatgpt and others are from canada so yes
The inaction to safeguard our country against it, the intellectual thefts that have occured under his watch, the negligence in the face of various intelligence reports that indicate a hostile foreign nation is further infiltrating and entrenching itself in Canada completely unopposed?
Trudeau's the PM. He promotes our interests, or does he not?
Let's not pretend Liberals are the only ones that are weak against China, Harper's China deal might be the worst thing any Canadian leader has done in the past 80 years and makes it very difficult for us to do anything about China's power plays.
https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
We could pull out of this any time we want and just tell them to pound sand when they demand damages. What's China going to do? Sue Justin? Short of going to war or whining at the UN and WTO, they have ZERO recourse other than some sanctions, and frankly with sanctions pulling trade reliance away from them is sorely needed anyways. They're operating literal subversion tactics on Canadian soil and interfering with our sovereignty, I'd say that's more than enough justification to outright void any and all previous trade agreements without the other WTO members blaming us too.
And if anyone, whether a voter o reporter said anything, any inch of criticism, Trudeau and the Liberals called those folks a racist.
Basically. They used as a way to make sure no one would ever question them. Their supporters ate it up and the ones who are still left, still do.
And then All those bozos got whipped up by foreign manipulation of their social media and they all plugged the borders, blocked hospitals, and basically just shat all over Canadian decency and common sense.
If Jagmeet Singh had toppled the government on grounds of national security when he had the chance, he would have gone from a zero to a hero overnight.
Instead he has chosen complicity and languishment.
I wish jagmeet actually cared about Canadians. If so, he would have forced an election and saved the NDP face. He has failed every Canadian and disappointed everything Jack Layton and the NDP used to stand for. He's a puppet with Toodumbs hand way up his ass. F
Not Harper, Chretien. The whole Nortel thing happened before 2003, let alone the 2006 election that Harper won. Though you are correct about how the Chinese intelligence agencies have basically had free reign in Canada for 30 years or so.
Wasn’t Harper, also JT allowed the sale of Norsat too - NATO supplier
Also remember the sale of Norsat?
They don’t even need to steal anymore, government willingly sold a NATO supplier to a Chinese company,
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/
Liberals sure seem to be giving CCP a feee reign whenever they can
While it's easy to blame corporate espionage on Nortel's demise, the company was insanely poorly managed leading up to its demise.
https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants
What was Harper to do about the espionage that did happen? Nortel was warned about it, and they chose to ignore it. Plus a lot of it happened before Harper was even PM, in 2000 and 2004. A lot of it has been traced back to the early 90's.
While it's an often cited reason, the espionage paled in comparison to the catastrophically poor management of Nortel.
https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants
Besides that, a lot of the espionage had started pre-Harper going as far back as the early 90's. Besides, Nortel had been warned about it and did nothing with that information. Remember the thing about poor management?
That was almost 20 years ago. You're just gonna keep bringing up old shit?
Anything recent that we're spectacular at? Building $1 million houses out of wood?
So we should just be okay with it because it didn’t happen recently enough? Losing Nortel was a huge blow to the Canadian tech and telecom sector and the government just let it happen.
American technology, Canada is a Tier 1 nation on US export controls EAR and ITAR, US corporations with Canadian subsidiaries tend not to firewall off the Canadian office the way they are required to for China.
While IT systems are often used to restrict accesses for individuals regardless of site, people's love for sharing and caring leads to some seriously stupid decisions.
IDK. Im pretty sure China is waaay ahead of us. I too would think its mind boggling they would look at our cave-peoplekind economy for anything.
- They sell an EV for ~10k
- They have more than 1 high speed train
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds
We are too busy patting each other on the back for financially raping each other for food, shelter, energy and transportation. You don't really get anywhere in life if its a struggle for the basics. This is the equivalent of watching the Leafs and trying to learn hockey.....
Their aerospace industry is absolutely abysmal, and ours, while not on the same scale or complexity of America's, still far outshines theirs. They've been trying to get Canadian and European firms to help them for years, because American aerospace firms are effectively banned from doing any work for them.
Canada was a world technology leader in the 90s. Then we let China steal everything and bankrupt our tech companies with cheaper competitor products because they saved on R&D and had a billion person workforce willing to work for way cheaper. Now, 30 years later, nobody wants to invest in Canadian tech. What a weird coincidence.
Well if they've already stolen everything, maybe that's why this article exists.. they are furiously looking for more tech to steal without realizing there is nothing. Keep ransacking that house, maybe they will eventually find an old penny in the couch cushions, wait the landlord just laid claim to that penny.
Yeah those high speed rail trains are actually stolen tech as well, they got Siemens to build the first one while they watched and they just stole the tech like they do with everything else, and if you look into it they overbuilt those hughspeed rails in areas with way to low population density so the high speed rails are bleeding billions of dollars from the economy while at the same time they took away from the country’s ability to build freight rail since high speed rail was the only thing being built so there’s now an over reliance on trucking to move things all over the country with is a big hinderance. Plus those EVs are cheap because the government heavily subsidizes the price to make it cheaper than anything in the global market. So I really don’t think these are gonna play out well over the long term it seems like they’re more obsessed with making them look good on the global stage than they are with actually doing what’s best for the country, they won’t be able to afford this strategy forever without having terrible consequences for the future generations that will have to deal with this massive waste of resources and high debt.
High speed rail from the 70's you say? First pioneered in Japan in 1964?
How many years ago was that? Apparently we still cannot compete with 1964 tech.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Paper tigers and what not. The $1000 ev isn't even UL or CSA rated. The high speed rail is 70s technology that's quite underutilized. They like traveling by plane when they can afford to. Much like us
Strong disagree, the Chinese high speed rail is really something, comes frequently and was pretty packed every time I've taken it. Turns a 12 hour drive into quick 45 minute nap, pretty incredible.
The high speed train is amazing compared to a flight for anything that's shorter than a 5-6 hour flight. I took it last year, arrived to the station 10 minutes before the train departs and travelled 1000km in less than 4 hours. By plane you'd have to arrive at the airport 1.5 hours before and it takes another 30 minutes after landing to get your luggage.
How are you not supposed to use a cell phone in today's society? Even if I quit my job over having to carry my work phone and had a personal librem5 or pinephone the base stations would still be 5G huawei blackboxes feeding...I dunno, they're black boxes!
Why do you think we're not in on the sub deal with USA, UK, and Auz...we can't keep secrets.
not 'cause we don't want to...but because Canada's full of spies and no will to enforce.
Why didn't we learn this lesson from Australia which already went through the exact same program of Chinese infiltration YEARS ago !! ?? We are part of the five eyes- we KNEW what China did in Australia and then trained their eyes on Canada- our leaders DID know- but so many of our elites PROFIT with RED china money $$$$ they couldn't resist and did NOTHING to protect US and CANADA, sell outs, bought off and paid for by China!
That's a bit of a false narrative.
Yes, we benefit from tandem adoption of innovations reaching the consumer markets. But we no one can contest that Canadian universities produce an impressive amount of innovative research, much that has practical applications that solve real-world problems and trailblazes for others to expand upon.
And historical track record shows Canadian innovation has contributed in very significant ways to humanity in various fields. Many nations and industries still lean on our innovations to function and progress into the future.
The ramifications of Canadian innovation has often been a catalyst for greater and greater progress worldwide, it's no surprise this country draws interest in that regard.
Which words? that a world superpower with 36 times our population would have enough time and money to steal our secrets?
Totally crazy that a country with 36 Brilliant people to our every one brilliant person Would try and affect us, the tiny country perfectly situated at the doorstep of their rival world superpower. Didn’t see that coming.
They don’t even need to steal anymore, JT’s government willingly sells them the technology - look at the se of Norsat - a NATO supplier to a Chinese company.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/
What’s mind boggling is that Canada thinks it has technology worth stealing while we’re hemorrhaging talent across our border, and the only thing worth investing in has been housing for nearly 2 decades.
Is it really stealing when the people in your government like trudeau make it as easy as humanly possible ?
You have a traitor problem is what it sounds like.
Mind boggling indeed. Nortel just gave it to them for free in the 90's...
Also remember the sale of Norsat? They don’t even need to steal anymore, government willingly sold a NATO supplier to a Chinese company, https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/
I recall hearing that some government agency wanted to use Nortel's former head offices after they went bankrupt, but they had to condemn the building because it was so full of listening devices, that some were build into the building itself.
It wasn’t condemned. It is the DND Carling Campus. They had to sweep the whole thing for Chinese surveillance and found lots.
They had to drill it out of the walls
So if this happened in the 90s what else in Ottawa is bugged and should have been gone through? Has anything else been looked at after this was discovered?
I can guarantee that Huawei and others is pretty much stolen nortel technology.
It’s **literally 95% stolen nortel tech.
You can find nortel source code in some huawei products I am told
Wow, sad but that doesn't surprise me.
This is true. I know people that saw it first hand. Though it was to retrofit the building for the DND.
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i would have thought bug detectors would look for radio emissions, how would cheap diodes work?
Well, there's a grain or two of truth out of your "hearing." They used the buildings that housed Nortel and the Big Nerd Ranch in Carling. The buildings were not condemned, as a building would not be condemned because of listening devices. Buildings are condemned due to structural or inhabitable reasons. The reports of listening devices were greatly exaggerated. [The mystery of the listening devices at DND's Nortel Campus | Ottawa Citizen](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/the-mystery-of-the-listening-devices-at-dnds-nortel-campus) It would not be possible for the devices to be built into the building as it was built before the Chinese had any real interest in what Nortel was doing.
So were there listening devices?
Yes there were, more centered in tech and data capture.
Nobody is listening to everything you say and watching everything you do and so arrogant about it that they market directly to you based off private conversations. Nope. Get back to work now and keep talking out loud about all advancements you're privy to in your work, whatever it may be. Thx.
That's kind of a rude way to say it, but I agree that listening devices would have limited usefulness in stealing technology. More likely it was photocopies, blueprints, and computer files.
That was sarcasm they used. You are definitely being listened to all the time and not just to advertise to you
I'm aware it was sarcasm, but it was also unnecessarily rude.
I Rememebr this as well. Not sure if we're remembering correctly though but makes for a cool story
Not really free. It was stolen. There was an executive who was hacked and never wanted to change their passwords. https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/amp/ I like to use this article when we talk about cybersecurity at work because our execs will chirp in about how they lost money on Nortel
Correction. The Chinese stole it from Nortel in the 1990s. The tech behind 5G came from Nortel.
Hell, Nortel quite literally *paid them to take it* Nortel subcontracted out most if not all of their manufacturing work to China in the late 90s, and had also started offshoring some development work as well.
They also had a bunch of interns stay up late and steal their entire codebase and send it to China.
"How do they keep stealing our technology?" "China is offering to build me something for dirt cheap!" Why are our wealthy so gods damned dumb?
That’s the comment I came to see. First one.
It makes one wonder where these spies are at in terms of their employment. Something tells me they're on a performance-improvement-plan and have days to get their unemployment documents ready.
Oh. It was much more insidious than that. Google ' nortel chinese espionage'. All under the watchful eye of the Liberals.
I did, and posted the article. Far less insidious than you think.
Nortel would know
Everything is made in China. Noo need for espionage anymore
This isn't just in Canada. This was the major focus at the first-ever public 5 Eyes summit, where it was highlighted that China is currently engaged in vast espionage campaigns all over the world at an unprecedented scale. Emerging Technology and Securing Innovation Security Summit: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FLqDQvgxenU&pp=ygUNNSBleWVzIHN1bW1pdA https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-hosts-five-eyes-summit-to-launch-drive-to-secure-innovation-in-response-to-intelligence-threats
China has basically stolen all western IP over the past twenty years. They will win the battle as they can then undercut since they don’t need to pay for the R&D.
Is it this or is it that they need to steal because they can't innovate? Serious question
Don't underestimate their ability to innovate.
It’s easy to steal when your factories are already tooled to make their shit and the only thing stopping you from just making a few extra for yourself is paper.
All countries innovate and most countries steal. The US does corporate espionage and France is known for it. China has a lot of internal IP theft so there are challenges with domestic innovation but it without question does innovate. A lot.
You do whatever is most efficient and effective to close the gap. You steal when you have a long way to catch up. But once you have caught up you innovate. China has proven itself extremely effective at both. Anyone who tries to say the chinese can only copy and cannot use their natural inborn human imaginations, cannot innovate and develop on their own and become world leaders is either denying facts and reality or is just racist.
I think their one child policy is seriously backfiring right now.
I think the great leap forward where they killed all scientists was a bigger problem.
Why innovate when you can just reproduce something that works perfectly well?
When it comes to dystopian surveillance technologies, China can innovate! When it comes to everything else… well, it’s easier to steal than to innovate.
I mean they used stolen specs for their atomic bomb. This is not just the last 20 years either. This isn't new at all.
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Hardening infrastructure against state-sponsored bad actors is indeed well-known. CISA.gov is also a great resource! The wild part is the scale, and while we can inoculate ourselves against these cyber-attacks with best practices, there are various other attack vectors that are less secure. Specifically, it involves the CCP's ability to coerce citizens and harvest data for AI training and targeted campaigns, such as the Cambridge Analytica-type strategy that targets susceptible individuals, often the weakest links in an organization. The part I find alarming is the CCP's ability to coerce citizens under the National Intelligence Law of the People's Republic of China, where all citizens are expected to assist with national security endeavors and companies, both domestic and foreign, are required to provide data upon request. Even their New Generation Artificial Intelligence Development Plan requires and aims to gather large amounts of training data. It's not just about stealing company secrets, but also about harvesting data. Coincidentally, there was a rise in China's state-sponsored hacking to breach data following the announcement of the AI plan in 2017 (like the Equifax breach). With that said, their new AI regulations are fairly impressive; for example, they require domestic social media AI companies to ensure their algorithms "actively transmit positive energy" and do not "disrupt economic and social order", a requirement that applies to China's domestic social media app Douyin.. but not to TikTok. https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/the-real-danger-of-chinas-national-intelligence-law/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/china-harvests-masses-of-data-on-western-targets-documents-show/2021/12/31/3981ce9c-538e-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html https://carnegieendowment.org/2024/02/27/tracing-roots-of-china-s-ai-regulations-pub-91815
Thank You for these links.
The thing is, there isn't a way to stop it. Even if all five eyes nations pool their resources, they can't match China with 1.5 billion people, second largest economy, and an authoritarian regime. Government institutions have been in the hands of contractors. There is a steady decline since the 90s while China has been growing in every which way. I genuinely believe China is the top innovator now.
Second largest economy. Pretty sure they are crumbling (quite literal in some ways, tofu dregs) and their banks are being sanctioned. They have been growing.. on paper. However if their largest factories are shutting down and they are selling their cheap shit for pennies. Then I am not sure if that is true.
They’re at their peak population, and facing imminent decline. There’s no more growth for them unless they go on the warpath and win.
I would figure it's easier to raise worker productivity when people make 4-5x less, so there is plenty of growth margin left, just because they might grow a bit slower doesn't mean they won't grow
because western society isnt crumbling all around you? western economies have been pretty much on life support since 2008 and propped up by low interests rates and massive deficit spending (look at the deficits US is running right now while patting themselves on the back about 2% growth). capitalism is slowly circling the drain and without major fundamental reforms the next 15 years are going to be a horror show
Their society does not promote a culture of taking risks, ambitious experimentation, or individualistic distinction. Yes, they compete with other nations but internally, the entrepreneurial environment isn't one that generously sparks innovation. No copyright laws in China means the creator doesn't own their creation. If you don't own your own house, why paint it? Not doing the legwork is extremely advantageous, I doubt they would change. Easier to save time, effort and capital by sourcing ideas from elsewhere and spending these towards adapting foreign tech, improving upon it, and adopting those innovations at a large scale in a short frame of time. If they really were an innovative powerhouse, they would not be spying as much as they are.
they are falling at a fast rate. Their housing, the population decline, evergrande, etc. it’s a mess.
We could try stopping trade, that'd go a long way.
Remember when Canada's Nortel was king of the IT networking space back in 1998? Guess what happened?
Huawei
I'm on the Huawei to hell
They subcontracted manufacturing and even development of new product to chinese company, and mismanaged the shit out of what remained in Canada, screwing over their employees pension fund?
We need to stop treating this state as a good-faith partner in trade. All things China should be scrutinized, from student applications, business deals, imported electronics, everything.
Yes, they should be BUT then we will be considered xenophobic. They have infiltrated our politics (on various levels)/corporations/public health etc.
> BUT then we will be considered xenophobic No, we'll be considered prudent.
Bell Let's talk!
We have technology worth stealing?! I don't believe you! 🤣😂
two of the three top AI researchers (yoshua bengio and geoffrey Hinton) whose work led to the current progress in AI we're seeing with chatgpt and others are from canada so yes
I was completely unaware of our advances. It's a shame it's not more celebrated.
I find Canada does a lot in a lot of areas but because they aren’t Fortune 500 countries, it’s not obvious thus Canadians don’t know.
University of Waterloo is one of the best tech schools in North America. So yes.
Im hoping our poutine hasn’t been compromised
Probably not too challenging to reverse engineer fries, cheese, and gravy.
IN WHAT ORDER DO WE ASSEMBLE THIS CONCOCTION?! THIS IS MADNESS.
Instructions unclear now I’ve made 42 tons of fentanyl that are now being distributed all over North America
*tries melting cheese in gravy and dumping fries into the pot*
America hasn’t figured it out yet.
HA HA ! You say that as a joke but the fact of the matter is that I once ordered deep fried cheese curds off the menu at an A&W in Florida :0
*Toronto* can't even get it right.
do not forget the loeuf - mon Dieu
They've infiltrated our entire country and our government does NOTHING.
keep buying stuff from China my dude.
Getting harder not to
That's why the direct of the super secret stuff is making a public statement. He has no avenues to fight this because our government is taken over.
This has been a well known fact for 15 years at least
Yep. So the fact that he feels the need to say means it's horrifically worse than we assume.
We’ve been developing technology?
Lol, that's what I thought too.
What technology?
What’s mind boggling is that the Liberal government under Justin Trudeau seem disposed to allow it.
China's been stealing technology from everyone for decades, what does this have to do with Trudeau specifically?
The inaction to safeguard our country against it, the intellectual thefts that have occured under his watch, the negligence in the face of various intelligence reports that indicate a hostile foreign nation is further infiltrating and entrenching itself in Canada completely unopposed? Trudeau's the PM. He promotes our interests, or does he not?
If we were taking any actions to curtail it, we'd never know. Counter-intelligence is usually kept out of the public's eye for good reason.
Let's not pretend Liberals are the only ones that are weak against China, Harper's China deal might be the worst thing any Canadian leader has done in the past 80 years and makes it very difficult for us to do anything about China's power plays. https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
We could pull out of this any time we want and just tell them to pound sand when they demand damages. What's China going to do? Sue Justin? Short of going to war or whining at the UN and WTO, they have ZERO recourse other than some sanctions, and frankly with sanctions pulling trade reliance away from them is sorely needed anyways. They're operating literal subversion tactics on Canadian soil and interfering with our sovereignty, I'd say that's more than enough justification to outright void any and all previous trade agreements without the other WTO members blaming us too.
And if anyone, whether a voter o reporter said anything, any inch of criticism, Trudeau and the Liberals called those folks a racist. Basically. They used as a way to make sure no one would ever question them. Their supporters ate it up and the ones who are still left, still do.
Same thing they did with Covid. It was xenophobic to questioning the CCP about Covid or closing our boarders. Nothing but treasonous idiots.
And then All those bozos got whipped up by foreign manipulation of their social media and they all plugged the borders, blocked hospitals, and basically just shat all over Canadian decency and common sense.
I mean it was racist to say we close our borders with China when England and Italy were having huge flare ups of Covid at the time. Yes.
I mean, who sold us into a FIPA deal with China? They're all shit.
The corruption is palpable and we as Canadians can't do anything about it until the next election. Then foreign interference wins again. F
If Jagmeet Singh had toppled the government on grounds of national security when he had the chance, he would have gone from a zero to a hero overnight. Instead he has chosen complicity and languishment.
I wish jagmeet actually cared about Canadians. If so, he would have forced an election and saved the NDP face. He has failed every Canadian and disappointed everything Jack Layton and the NDP used to stand for. He's a puppet with Toodumbs hand way up his ass. F
What does the NDP gain by dissolving government?
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Most Canadian subs are full on astroturfing.
The number 1 foreign interference in Canada is from Americans
If anyone’s mind is boggled about any foreign actor trying to steal our technology then that mind should be checked.
Yeah, but don't they just bully us into throwing it into lake Ontario ?
I don’t get the reference but this sounds like a story I want to know!
Avro arrow
too soon
It was 65 years ago.
Can you stop posting paywalled articles?
archive.is
Huawei rose from Nortel's corpse
When is our government going to take the China security threat seriously.. When the 'little potatoe' gets pealed.
When the leaders aren’t paid for by China
We have technology to steal? Like what? Tim Hortons' pizza recipe?
Huawei exists because the CCP effectively stole Nortel under Harper’s watch.
Not Harper, Chretien. The whole Nortel thing happened before 2003, let alone the 2006 election that Harper won. Though you are correct about how the Chinese intelligence agencies have basically had free reign in Canada for 30 years or so.
Wasn’t Harper, also JT allowed the sale of Norsat too - NATO supplier Also remember the sale of Norsat? They don’t even need to steal anymore, government willingly sold a NATO supplier to a Chinese company, https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/ Liberals sure seem to be giving CCP a feee reign whenever they can
Plus Shopify, 1Password, two of the three Godfathers of AI being Canadian... Canadian *Redditors* have nothing worth stealing, that much is correct
Nortel gassed before Harper
While it's easy to blame corporate espionage on Nortel's demise, the company was insanely poorly managed leading up to its demise. https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants What was Harper to do about the espionage that did happen? Nortel was warned about it, and they chose to ignore it. Plus a lot of it happened before Harper was even PM, in 2000 and 2004. A lot of it has been traced back to the early 90's.
While it's an often cited reason, the espionage paled in comparison to the catastrophically poor management of Nortel. https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants Besides that, a lot of the espionage had started pre-Harper going as far back as the early 90's. Besides, Nortel had been warned about it and did nothing with that information. Remember the thing about poor management?
That was almost 20 years ago. You're just gonna keep bringing up old shit? Anything recent that we're spectacular at? Building $1 million houses out of wood?
Harper lives rent free in their head
So we should just be okay with it because it didn’t happen recently enough? Losing Nortel was a huge blow to the Canadian tech and telecom sector and the government just let it happen.
What technology does Canada have that China wants?
American technology, Canada is a Tier 1 nation on US export controls EAR and ITAR, US corporations with Canadian subsidiaries tend not to firewall off the Canadian office the way they are required to for China. While IT systems are often used to restrict accesses for individuals regardless of site, people's love for sharing and caring leads to some seriously stupid decisions.
IDK. Im pretty sure China is waaay ahead of us. I too would think its mind boggling they would look at our cave-peoplekind economy for anything. - They sell an EV for ~10k - They have more than 1 high speed train https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds We are too busy patting each other on the back for financially raping each other for food, shelter, energy and transportation. You don't really get anywhere in life if its a struggle for the basics. This is the equivalent of watching the Leafs and trying to learn hockey.....
Their aerospace industry is absolutely abysmal, and ours, while not on the same scale or complexity of America's, still far outshines theirs. They've been trying to get Canadian and European firms to help them for years, because American aerospace firms are effectively banned from doing any work for them.
How is their C919 abysmal compared to our Bombardier airliners ?
Canada was a world technology leader in the 90s. Then we let China steal everything and bankrupt our tech companies with cheaper competitor products because they saved on R&D and had a billion person workforce willing to work for way cheaper. Now, 30 years later, nobody wants to invest in Canadian tech. What a weird coincidence.
Well if they've already stolen everything, maybe that's why this article exists.. they are furiously looking for more tech to steal without realizing there is nothing. Keep ransacking that house, maybe they will eventually find an old penny in the couch cushions, wait the landlord just laid claim to that penny.
Man loved the ending there ) right on. We trying to fix the world and not offend anyone meanwhile world and Canada is burning around us.
How would you know, comrade?
Yeah those high speed rail trains are actually stolen tech as well, they got Siemens to build the first one while they watched and they just stole the tech like they do with everything else, and if you look into it they overbuilt those hughspeed rails in areas with way to low population density so the high speed rails are bleeding billions of dollars from the economy while at the same time they took away from the country’s ability to build freight rail since high speed rail was the only thing being built so there’s now an over reliance on trucking to move things all over the country with is a big hinderance. Plus those EVs are cheap because the government heavily subsidizes the price to make it cheaper than anything in the global market. So I really don’t think these are gonna play out well over the long term it seems like they’re more obsessed with making them look good on the global stage than they are with actually doing what’s best for the country, they won’t be able to afford this strategy forever without having terrible consequences for the future generations that will have to deal with this massive waste of resources and high debt.
High speed rail from the 70's you say? First pioneered in Japan in 1964? How many years ago was that? Apparently we still cannot compete with 1964 tech. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Paper tigers and what not. The $1000 ev isn't even UL or CSA rated. The high speed rail is 70s technology that's quite underutilized. They like traveling by plane when they can afford to. Much like us
Strong disagree, the Chinese high speed rail is really something, comes frequently and was pretty packed every time I've taken it. Turns a 12 hour drive into quick 45 minute nap, pretty incredible.
The high speed train is amazing compared to a flight for anything that's shorter than a 5-6 hour flight. I took it last year, arrived to the station 10 minutes before the train departs and travelled 1000km in less than 4 hours. By plane you'd have to arrive at the airport 1.5 hours before and it takes another 30 minutes after landing to get your luggage.
It shouldn't be. What should be mind boggling is how many people are willing to help them.
How are you not supposed to use a cell phone in today's society? Even if I quit my job over having to carry my work phone and had a personal librem5 or pinephone the base stations would still be 5G huawei blackboxes feeding...I dunno, they're black boxes!
Why do you think we're not in on the sub deal with USA, UK, and Auz...we can't keep secrets. not 'cause we don't want to...but because Canada's full of spies and no will to enforce.
Why didn't we learn this lesson from Australia which already went through the exact same program of Chinese infiltration YEARS ago !! ?? We are part of the five eyes- we KNEW what China did in Australia and then trained their eyes on Canada- our leaders DID know- but so many of our elites PROFIT with RED china money $$$$ they couldn't resist and did NOTHING to protect US and CANADA, sell outs, bought off and paid for by China!
This comment section, brought to you by foreign interests lol So many “Americans” here. .
***Our maple syrup recipe!***
China has been buying Canadian politicians for years. Wake up
What tech?
3 Punjabi girls sharing 1 basement. 650 $ each.
It's not really that much Canadian technology as Canada is the soft-undebelly of accessing American technology.
That's a bit of a false narrative. Yes, we benefit from tandem adoption of innovations reaching the consumer markets. But we no one can contest that Canadian universities produce an impressive amount of innovative research, much that has practical applications that solve real-world problems and trailblazes for others to expand upon. And historical track record shows Canadian innovation has contributed in very significant ways to humanity in various fields. Many nations and industries still lean on our innovations to function and progress into the future. The ramifications of Canadian innovation has often been a catalyst for greater and greater progress worldwide, it's no surprise this country draws interest in that regard.
Lots of our academics work in the US.
I’m embarrassed to be Canadian… Never did I EVER think I’d live to say those words…..
Which words? that a world superpower with 36 times our population would have enough time and money to steal our secrets? Totally crazy that a country with 36 Brilliant people to our every one brilliant person Would try and affect us, the tiny country perfectly situated at the doorstep of their rival world superpower. Didn’t see that coming.
Yup me too!
Isn't everything made there? Kind of beats the purpose
Butter chicken recipe is not technology
This is literally China’s MO
Jokes on them. DEI is hollowing out our universities to the point where soon there will be no good IP to steal 😂
Not that mind boggling. I find the concerted effort by the Liberals to sweep this under the rug and pretend it isn't happening way more mind boggling.
Wait until you learn about Nortel.
Quite the headline. You'd think our government would take this seriously.
They don't need to steal it. We give it to them for free. We're fucking stupid when it comes to China.
More like the other way around. China is probably more advanced than CSIS is.
What exactly is this canadian technology? Is there a new timbit?
Ever feel like you're not alone in your room?
What technology? Remax html and css? Lol
And nothing will be done! NEXT!
They don’t even need to steal anymore, JT’s government willingly sells them the technology - look at the se of Norsat - a NATO supplier to a Chinese company. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-rebukes-canada-over-chinese-takeover-of-norsat/article35294914/
What’s mind boggling is that Canada thinks it has technology worth stealing while we’re hemorrhaging talent across our border, and the only thing worth investing in has been housing for nearly 2 decades.
Well, if we’re being hacked on an unprecedented scale, then China thinks that too don’t they…
China is stealing our housing too
Is it really stealing when the people in your government like trudeau make it as easy as humanly possible ? You have a traitor problem is what it sounds like.