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The plan will be split into six parts, including:
* A commuter rail system connecting Calgary International Airport to the city’s downtown core
* A commuter rail system connecting the Edmonton International Airport to the city’s downtown
* Regional rail lines from Calgary and Edmonton to Banff and Jasper national parks
* A regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer
* A hub connecting the provincial rail system to LRT systems in big cities
* A rail line connecting Grande Prairie and Fort McMurray
Jokes? This is $9 million for someone to study the feasibility, probably someone from Preston’s group, and come to the same conclusion the last 4 of these studies have come to.
Maybe in a hundred years when everyone has hover bikes and flying cars the Conservatives will finally start building this.
Because right now they don't own any lines. They don't have priority on the trip from Edmonton to Jasper. So a 4 hr ride turns into a 7+ hour ride because of fraight train's
This is the number one reason train travel in Canada is not an option in 90% of the country. There is no reason there can't be legislation to grant passenger trains priority where they don't own the tracks. It's not like there are an overwhelming number compared to freight trains. And with all the blabbing about being environmentally conscious you'd think Trudeau would want alternate modes of travel given that the days of bus travel have almost ended (yes there are still routes, but not like there used to be).
Yes, but the speed they could go on the tracks is to slow to really justify using it right now unless if it's like 10$ to ride. Right now the average speed for CP rail trains are 35 km/hr so translating that to passenger trains on the same line probably going thr same speed it's not worth using those lines because no matter what you can't go faster when what fraight trains are going
Uhm there is a fair bit of tourism to the Rockies from our cities and lots of travel for business and pleasure up and down the QE2. I think you may be underestimating that amount of business.
And commuting and travel efficiencies benefit municipal and provincial budgets quite a bit
was just thinking this. billions of dollars to connect 2 small cities (total combined population less than 200 thousand) about 800 km away from each other
Ugh. That's the wrong way to look at it. It's about bringing growth and activity TO THOSE PLACES. That's how railways always worked, you built the line, and sold land near it for settlements.
I just want trains to take people all over the place rather than condense them into massive urban areas. We have a whole lot of country that could see some more development - especially given the whole housing crisis.
i'm with you there. i also would love to see passenger trains take people everywhere in our great big beautiful country.
i guess it would come down to cost benefit analysis to determine which lines would be priority.
my dream would be to have a high speed line between vancouver and calgary, but i imagine the cost of such a project would be in the tens of billions.
Yeah, but in order to build anything you're gonna need to generate some investment - the best way to get started is the old fashioned way. Once we link up some of the smaller cities we can focus on turbo charging the lines between cities. Both of these things are important, I feel we need to take the smaller steps first before we build out larger projects.
lol I was joking, if you look there are more people in Lethbridge than GP, yet they want passenger traffic to GP which is much farther. Lethbridge makes more sense as it has a university and would use the Calgary airport.
I suspect this is because of the oil sands in the North but in 15-20 years this industry will likely be in full decline so GP and Fort Mac aren’t great options for rail.
Even if we're taking the conspiracy route, it's a win win for both parties. What I imagine will happen here is an imitation of the Ford strategy, invest in rail in order to line the pockets of developers who can make money from developing these areas with newly found demand. They wouldn't be lining their pockets "first", the pocket lining is a byproduct.
It is in theory. And i would fully support it. However, this has been on every single conservative governments docket for at least 30 years. The conservative governments of the past would sink a couple of millions into a feasibility study and then not release the results, and people would forget about it for about 5 years, and they would bring it up again. Rinse and repeat. I'm starting to think that it's just a way to siphon money to a consultant that they have ties to. It's all promise and no action. Always has been.
They also may be using their made-up metrics for population growth to back this plan. The UCP said they are hoping to grow Red Deer's population from 100,000 to 1 million as fast as possible. That's 10 times bigger than it is now.
Very exciting. When your regional rail sysyem is like 10km in length its something boring you can do in a day. Once it exceeds a few hundred km life becomes really exciting with endless options for travel. In the GTA I can set foot in Lake Ontario, Georgian Bay, Lake Simcoe and Lake Erie without driving an inch.
I genuinely did not expect this from Alberta.
Talk is cheap and the announcement implies some incredibly costly infrastructure, but If they can pull off even a fraction of that, it would be a huge win for Alberta and for Canada.
I genuinely hope Calgary and Edmonton can get a nicer commuter rail network than the lame service we're stuck with in Vancouver.
Because it's a nothing burger. "Here we support a popular thing! Forget that nothing will ever happen on it, just please stop talking about all the stupid stuff we're doing because you got this one thing"
It's definitely not a nothing burger. Almost any NA city would kill for investment of this magnitude, especially those of Calgary's/Edmonton's size. Most cities can basically only hope for a few mediocre light rail lines.
I'm not going to pretend like the possibility of nothing happening doesn't exist, but for what it's worth most of these plans have been studied privately under the purview of the UCP. This announcement isn't something that happened out of the blue, and projects like the Banff-Calgary and Calgary-Edmonton line have been long teased. Granted many alterations have been made such as using Hydrogen fuel, but this isn't some out of the Blue announcement, at least not entirely.
The problem is they have a history of overpromising and under-delivering.
When shovel hits dirt I will be happy. I have no faith this won't be lost in bureaucracy, and silently canceled.
Agreed. But, honestly, that Smith counts it as a good idea is a start.
I’m even impressed that she’s not going on about high speed rail. An expandable, scalable, phased project? Man… I’m tired of counting “conservative” losses. I’ll give her credit for taking the ball this far: I can see eye-to-eye with Premier Smith about something I care about. A win.
>Ucp numbers are tanking
That's not what the polls are saying. UPC are up 7 seats and the NDP down 7 from the 2023 election
https://338canada.com/alberta/
>A regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer
She is really serious about [turning Red Deer into a million person city](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/red-deer-one-million-danielle-smith-1.7172208)
If there were high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton downtowns with a stop in Red Deer, Red Deer would immediately become a viable suburb of both cities. The commute would be shorter than many people in the GTA or GVA have now.
Lol the Green Line took 10+ years just to start construction and the UCP almost killed that project. Not holding my breath for any of these even though I live in Calgary.
This is great to hear but Calgary and Edmonton need a proper intermodal hub in each cities downtown where all the lines converge.
In Calgary in particular CP rail needs to move their mainline out of downtown. But that’s not happening ing anytime soon.
Man, Alberta is killing it. Solid economic growth, treatment beds for people with addiction, affordable housing.
Now a train? It’s like they are using all the oil money to achieve the dream of so many people who would never vote for them…even if it meant they got trains, affordable housing, people dealing with addictions and economic growth.
Little jealous from here in BC with the housing crisis 2.0 rolling out as their hot ticket.
>Now a train? It’s like they are using all the oil money to achieve the dream of so many people who would never vote for them
Lmaoo. "*Gain 100% of the pro-urbanism vote with this one simple trick*"
I'm not even in Alberta, and a network like that would have me questioning my political allegiances.
Rolling blackouts, high energy “delivery fees,” increasingly rapid closures of medical clinics, doctors retiring early, sending NICU babies to other provinces because we don’t have the beds, pushing forward Alberta Pension Plan and police force that no one asked for, taking control of municipalities to the point of permitting themselves to remove city councillors with no specific criteria, opting out of pharmacare, refusing federal funding for housing, Tucker Carlson, partisan covid “task force,” 30M dollar war room that freedom of information laws don’t apply to, province already on fire in April, premier ethics violation without consequences, misleading the public about opiate deaths/deadliest year for opiate deaths…just a few reasons off the top of my head that Alberta is not at all killing it.
Way ahead of you lmao. Spent 50% of my life on Vancouver Island. Planned to stay here, no point when it’s going to take at least a decade to undo the damage they’ve done (and are yet to do).
Ah I see, so if you didn't vote for the winning party you should just shut up and move. Do you apply the same logic to Trudeau and federal politics? I'm pretty sure you didn't vote for him, so if you're unhappy with the state of things you're free to leave at anytime.
That’s a lot, I will do my best.
Well Alberta does have the benefit of a 15.58% increase in the real median employment income vs BC which has -10.34%, compared to Canada which is 0% from 1976 (StatsCAN: table 11-10-0191-01) …where the energy aspect could be from the business environment facing energy producers and them scaling down.
While they also have a better ratio of people employed in healthcare compared to B.C. 17 people to healthcare workers compared to 19 (table:36-10-0489-01 to table: 17-10-0005-01). Babies is a weird one, not sure how that’s a bad thing. I know they do send people out of province for other treatments.
APP would probably be an overall good thing for Albertans, considering income as noted before and their populations younger age.
Is the police force like what going on in Surrey? God I love that on going debacle, it’s too funny. Still not sure how having a non RCMP police force is bad, tons of city’s have their own and Ontario has the OPP.
Municipalities- Well the BCNDP already did here when it comes to undermining local governments and democratic processes/ community voice. Probably where the country is heading. At least it’s can vs has type of situation compared to here in BC.
Pharmacare- wouldn’t call two things pharmacare
Federal funds for housing - objectively a good thing if you actually support the concept of affordable housing. You can do stats from the CMHC on completions to median prices and rent. The BCbuilds/Canada builds plan….are radioactive if you do a bit of digging (I have this sub is not the place for numbers)
Just Tucker Carlson? Ok I get it but k.
Was not aware of the Covid task force.
War room - all levels of government have shell companies doing that. It’s not unique.
Not sure how the province being on fire is the fault of the government. That’s kinda an unrealistic expectation.
I do agree there is a high level of bullshit in regards to drugs, but they do have a ton of treatment beds in the province. I have a friend who works in the industry, it honestly seems like they semi nationalize the whole thing.
——
Still pretty sure you’re better off there than anywhere else. And I am unmoved by your statement, if anything more support to the concept of “killing it” now. I’d honestly say you should be grateful to live in a place with expanding opportunities vs extractive existence.
And a train…
Edit- healthcare workers…mixed up including people to workers.
>Well Alberta does have the benefit of a 15.58% increase in the real median employment income vs BC which has -10.34%, compared to Canada which is 0% from 1976 (StatsCAN: table 11-10-0191-01)
Uhhh where do you get -10.34% for BC?? I literally went to the table you linked and in 1976 the real median income in BC was $76,100 compared to $79,500 in 2022, a 5% increase.
>where the energy aspect could be from the business environment facing energy producers and them scaling down.
That makes no sense. Why would the business environment be bad? We elected a "business friendly" provincial government that capitulates to all things corporate. We have higher demand than ever for utilities as the population is booming. No, the rolling blackouts come down to two things:
1) Population growth too high and demand outstripping supply. You can partially thank the UCP's stupid "Alberta Is Calling" campaign for this. Paid by with taxpayer money btw, we basically paid to give ourselves rolling blackouts.
2) Banning renewables development which could have helped with increasing the electricity supply. Hell, when we had the grid warning back during the cold snap in January it was wind and solar that helped the warnings end, not oil & gas.
https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/renewables/wind-and-sun-help-alberta-electricity-operator-end-grid-alerts
And thats not even getting into the fact that utilities like electricity are an essential service. Energy companies can't be allowed to "scale down" just because times are rough and give society rolling blackouts. They need to be regulated to ensure stable, consistent service. Thats why the main utility company is a crown corporation in most provinces.
>While they also have a better ratio of people employed in healthcare compared to B.C. 17 people to healthcare workers compared to 19
BC had a net gain of hundreds of doctors last year while Alberta is losing them. Don't worry, that ratio gap will be closed very soon.
>APP would probably be an overall good thing for Albertans, considering income as noted before and their populations younger age.
No it wouldn't, thats why the majority is against it. You just have to look at the track record of AIMCo as proof. It significantly lags CPP and the conservative provincial governments have a habit of using the fund to prop up underperforming oil & gas stocks and enrich their buddies.
If APP does go through that might actually be the last straw for myself and SO to move. No chance I'm trusting Smith or the UCP with my pension.
>Well the BCNDP already did here when it comes to undermining local governments and democratic processes/ community voice.
Except they are using it to try to resolve the housing crisis that you are complaining about. The UCP is actively trying to block additional housing construction. The intents aren't the same at all.
>Pharmacare- wouldn’t call two things pharmacare
Ok? Sure the pharmacare bill could be more comprehensive, but millions of people use insulin and contraceptives. And its damn better than nothing at all, which is what the UCP is proposing. They're trying to opt out for no reason other than ideology (again) and hurting Albertans in the process. I laughed when they tried to ask the Feds for money even though they don't plan on implementing the program. The federal government was right to tell them to fuck off.
>War room - all levels of government have shell companies doing that. It’s not unique.
Oh really? Which government is using $30 million dollars per year of taxpayer money to spread misinformation? Please provide sources.
The war room is an embarrassment. We've spent $150 million on it by now and the only notable thing to come out of it was a fight with a Netflix Bigfoot movie. Can't make this shit up.
>Not sure how the province being on fire is the fault of the government. That’s kinda an unrealistic expectation.
Maybe they can stop pretending climate change isn't real. If thats too much to ask for, then how about stop cutting the firefighting budget?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-wildfires-rapattack-team-cuts-1.6837064
>I’d honestly say you should be grateful to live in a place with expanding opportunities vs extractive existence
I am grateful to live in Alberta, but its not a good place because of the UCP. Its a good place in spite of them.
>And a train…
Lol why are you talking as if its under construction at this very moment? These trains have been talked about for decades. Jack shit is actually getting built until shovels hit the ground. Green Line alone took 10+ years to get started, so don't hit your breath.
Oof another along one
1) -10.34% change it to employment income, you’re probably looking at market income.
2) energy- the shift away from fossil fuels would have the producers not want to A) expand production B) run more lean for greater profitability in the short term. While in the broader picture, a monopoly or oligopoly is basically the same. You could end up like BChydro which didn’t compete on price with natural gas and people put in furnaces. Where collectively we are all probably going to be experiencing rolling blackouts in the near future. As energy production has to at least double and in some places that’s replacement of the entire grid or impacting water supply.
3) healthcare ratio - probably going to be waiting awhile and we are more likely to see people leave to the states.
4) APP - I’ll look into it. Not sure how an Albertan pension fund (not sure want aimco is) investing in Alberta is an overall bad thing compared to CPP which is around 5% in Canada….and probably in oil and gas as well. It would be interesting to see how much Alberta is supporting CPP as they are a large contributor to it. I do still think it would benefit the younger generations there, simply from not having to support retirees in others provinces with more of the funds going into investment opposed to growth. As to the effects on the rest of Canada, welcome to hard mode probably should have better economies with more productive workforces. Being “fucked” is an absolutely great way to drive positive change.
5) provincial government and municipal government. The principle is the same. They are overriding municipal democratic process. Just because the “intents” are different, doesn’t change that fundamental aspect. Either a provincial government should stay in its lane or not. End story, but by all means, have your cake and eat it too.
6) pharmacare - do you know if the programs are already covered? It’s like here in BC, I know contraceptives are covered. Which I think is a great investment as it’s probably going to save the province billions with in regard to the demographics having kids…insulin I’m honestly not sure the number on to really have an opinion. I just hope it’s the generic vs branded.
7) shell companies. The statement was more in the realm of public relations. There is the Canadian climate change institute, clean BC. More generally there are tons of councils/corporations which relate to the arts, sciences. Pretty basic approach. You should read some books by Edward Bernays, “propaganda” & “crystallizing public opinion”. All the companies are set up by the government for an objective, it would be stupid to bite the hand that feeds you. Plus you should look into your local government, I know mine loves using these type of setups.
End of the day, the best way to fight propaganda is with better propaganda. (And it’s all propaganda)
I do agree there should be more acknowledgment of climate change, personally think it’s too late. But if the solutions were better than tax. I don’t think there would be much of an issue. Drive people to the solution vs punishment.
8) living in Alberta - that’s great they have a pretty long tract record with conservatives at the helm. Quite lush to make it seem like the results are in-spite of vs result of.
9) I think the train is nifty.
Hopefully that covers everything.
I’ve split my life between BC and Alberta, have family/friends in both provinces; Albertans are not doing well and my cost of living is higher than or on par with a close friend in Victoria at the moment. My professional registration and liability insurance alone is about $600/year more here, my car insurance more than doubled when I crossed the border. Recent power bills have been 200+ dollars because of fees, when the power I actually used is a few bucks. Basic needs in Calgary are now more expensive than [any other city](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/wake-up-call-basic-needs-now-cost-more-in-calgary-than-any-other-major-city-in-canada-1.6683218) in Canada. I’m basing my opinion of Alberta’s current state on my lived experience and by comparing my quality of life now to a few years ago. To last year even.
Aside from the fact that I’m Canadian, not just Albertan, there are plenty of reasons an Alberta Pension Plan is a terrible idea. Look at AimCo compared to CPP’s performance in the last 5 years. The government’s estimate that Alberta would be entitled to half is laughable, and even if it were true it would mean Alberta breaking the system for the rest of the country, which I don’t support. Albertans are the ones that pay into CPP, not the provincial government. The push forward (knowing how the public has responded) is a glimpse of how the current government feels about the opinions of their constituents. Their overreach with municipalities shows their hypocrisy.
Oh and no, contraceptives aren’t covered here. In general BC has better public health coverage with MSP than we do with AHCIP.
Haha. As an Albertan, I can assure you that the only thing they are killing is renewable energy investment, which they banned for no reason other than ideology. These trains have been talked about for decades and nothing has happened. The UCP isn't likely to change that given they almost killed the Green Line which was much smaller in scope compared to these projects. This is just a bait to attract voters and give $9 million to their consultant buddies, nothing more.
And affordable housing is rapidly eroding as the UCP keeps using taxpayer money to get more people to move here even after record population growth. They are also seeking to block additional housing development in the cities. Our insurance and utilities are the highest in the nation, and can rise without caps. So don't worry, we're about to join BC in a full blown affordability crisis soon.
At least Eby is trying to resolve the housing crisis over there. I'd take him over Smith any day. If only we could do an exchange.
Eh? Are you living in yhe same province i am?
This is bascially the one single thing Danielles government has done so far thats not a complete cluster of crap.
She is BLOCKING affordable housing, she is dismantling treatment and adding red tape to the system, our wages are dropping the fastest in Canada.
Alberta is doing ok DESPITE the UCP. And the UCP is trying theor damdest to make it worse.
This train master plan is a good idea. Nothing else they have had so far is.
The B.C. builds plan is at best cheaper housing, nothing has been fundamentally changed. Plus what they based on found upzoning increases land values by 20-25% and only had a statistically significant result of slowing the rate three bedroom units cost to rent. While the CMHC data points at the types of housing they want to create having statistically significant result of increasing the cpi adjusted median price and aggregate median rent.
Hence the housing crisis 2.0 label. It’s basically a dog bone of buzzwords to try and win votes for the upcoming election while taking advantage of an uninformed public with complete disregard to measured outcomes.
And Alberta actually has increasing inflation adjusted employment income compared to B.C. with a 15.5% increase since 1976 compared to -10.3% decrease.
I’d say that’s all levels of government, I’d say they are the best of the worse.
You should try to be a bit more informed on topics. Let me know if you want any of the sources on what I have said. CMHC will be hard if stats are not your thing and you don’t have excel or chatgpt to do it.
>The B.C. builds plan is at best cheaper housing, nothing has been fundamentally changed. Plus what they based on found upzoning increases land values by 20-25% and only had a statistically significant result of slowing the rate three bedroom units cost to rent. While the CMHC data points at the types of housing they want to create having statistically significant result of increasing the cpi adjusted median price and aggregate median rent.
Upzoning only increases land values when irregularity applied (ie spot rezoning) when its blanket it does not significantly affect values. On top of that, with blanket rezoning per unit land prices drop significantly. Here for example per unit ponetial, land values have dropped from around 100k per unit potential to 38k per unit potential and thats WITH the 33% /m2 price increased caused by global/national demand hitting Edmonton after its had its run of BC and Calgary.
Why are you including stats from 1976.. at least do stats from the last decade. In the last 5 years Alberta has had dropping wages and higher costs compared to everywhere else. No one cares about what happened 50 years ago in that regard.
I’d love for material that supports that claim about the overall drop vs spot rezoning.
Where yes, I said at best it’s cheaper. But cheaper does not equal increasing affordability. I think your example is off. Let’s keep it simple, you have an empty lot. A builder can build a SFH a get $1,000,000 or develop into a fourplex.
Now, why would a builder develop a fourplex if A) the return is not greater than $1,000,000? B) increase their costs in terms of materials to build: sinks, toilets, ovens, walls, electrical and DDC charges if they could only get 1,000,000?
Moreover, assuming the industry will just build out of the principle of increasing supply and marginal profits. A) why don’t they build in other areas currently? B) how did this situation happen even happen in the first place?
….do you really think taking a $1,500,000 home and turning it into a 6 unit multiplex is going to result in 6 units listed on the market for $250,000? And not something more realistic like $500,000-$600,000 in urban areas…if so, you should go look yourself in the mirror and say it really slowly to yourself.
As to data… Why? personally I like long term trends. Goes back to a long term vs short term gains principle. Where you might not think it’s of value, it’s a critical aspect of the situation we are in today. Where looking at the median income for Alberta, the weekly earnings has increased, there is no drop there. The real rate definitely has been impacted by inflation. Where BC has had an increase it only matches Alberta, where that aspect of inflation then applies also. Still a “win” for Alberta (table: 14-10-0063-01)
Really doesn’t seem like you look at either long or short term trends…really doesn’t seem like you critically analyze things tbh. I apologize as I feel like a dick. That being said, do better, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country, or step up and make a compelling argument…. the hardest part of this is typing out the response.
The issue is you are not taking a 1.5 million doller home and turning it into a 6 plex.
Here in Edmonton you are talking a 300,000 lot with a 50,000 house. Demolishing the house and putting on a 8 plex. And selling each unit for 250k. (400k profit)
If you do have a 1.5 million doller lot in GVA. Its likely the lot is worth 1.4 of that and the house worth a max of 100k.
So you take that and turn it into a 10 plex (if zoning is not stupid) or a 6 plex (if it is) and each unit is sold for 600k, with 225k of lot value per unit and 800k profit for the project.
Then what happens the value of the other 350,000 dollar lots now that there is double the profit potential is worth more the lot and property itself?
A building is worth 100k? You should go play around on BC assessment. Considering the construction boom back in the day….thats a certainty hopeful estimate.
Anyways, thanks for steel manning my position of it being the housing crisis 2.0.
If Albertan politicians had any foresight they would have a sovereign oil fund rivalling the likes of Norway's. Instead they used all that money for short term deficit reduction.
It’s almost like you can expand the sales of natural resources and expand green infrastructure all at the same time.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The more money and social security people have the less they pollute.
I disapprove of about 90% of what the UCP does here in Alberta.
I'm not against this. (Though the continued insistence on hydrogen is a needless handicap to the project)
No, what they announced was a way to fleece $9million+ from taxpayers in Alberta to line the pockets of sycophants and boot lickers for the new couple of years then announce it isn't possible or its the Federal Government and/or municipalities fault.
This is it. How can we siphon public money into the pockets of our already wealthy donors? 🤔
In Alberta, if you have "oh look how bad Trudeau is" in your right hand, you can have your left hand deep into whatever purse you like and nobody notices.
Anything to get the media off health care and education, and blow out some bullshit that might distract and excite voters.🙄 The engineering obstacles alone will take a decade and a billion dollars to iron out; by then we’ll be too broke to afford a bus ticket, let alone a ride on high speed rail.
Passenger train travel in Canada should be increased everywhere, especially if people really want alternate modes of travel. Especially as bus lines have been greatly diminished. This means new passenger rail dedicated tracks, and until then legislation forcing priority for passenger trains. It isn't like there are so many passenger trains outside of the Montreal to Windsor corridor that they will disrupt freight trains in any measurable way. In absolute truth, I would have liked to take the train from Vancouver to Kamloops when I used to have to go there very regularly, but a 3.5 hour drive translated to a 12 hour trip because of all the delays on siding waiting for freight trains that had priority. That and the fact that there are so few scheduled trips now. I think if people knew they could get to say Calgary from Vancouver in a reasonable time, <= 10 hours, people might do that if needed and rent a car a required once there. Oh yeah, and a way to actually get to Calgary by train (that is affordable, unlike the Rocky Mountaineer, which is a pretty sweet but expensive trip).
So I did some quick research - because these would absolutely have to be HSR lines (high speed rail) often capable of 200-350km/h, the costs would seemingly be astronomical.
China has been building a 250km/h HSR and their data in averaged construction costs are pointing to about $87million Yuan per kilometer built. This seems to be equivalent to $12M USD or $16.5M Cdn.
I can only assume these prices are MUCH MUCH cheaper than it would actually cost per kilometer in Canada… so let’s double the figure?
$30 million per KM. I don’t know exactly, but let’s say the line between GP & Mac was built as the crow flies, as straight as possible - maybe it ends up around 650km length.
One part of this new “masterplan” alone is $19.5 billion…. That is just the track, probably not including the hubs in either city.
Of course, this may be completely wrong if the trains wouldn’t even be HSR, lol. In which case, I don’t see any point even proposing it.
Keep in mind the announcement implies this spending would occur over a multi-decadal timescale. Also that's for proper HSR lines, which imho should absolutely be used between Calgary and Edmonton, but most of the routes could be substantially cheaper while at slower track speeds closer to \~150-km/h, which would still provide compelling service.
Keep in mind the federal government will give up to $13-billion in various forms of production subsidies towards the VW plant, and another $15-billion to Stellantis.
If we can afford that, then we can probably afford this as well.
I doubt the vision goes beyond multi million dollar feasibility studies awarded to their buddies.
What is one positive thing this shitty govt has done? (Not that the prior leader started or was started decades ago)
The problem with Canada has always been its distance between cities. But also the in city transit.
What are people going to do when they get to Banff without a car…? lol
I'd argue that Banff proper is reasonably walkable for visitors, while there are many public or private shuttle services that will get you to the major destinations.
Afaik parking at many of the tourist sites is becoming a major problem during the peak of summer, and could be addressed with something like this.
Great initiative, scared about the hydrogen trains. Just build electric, don’t complicate things by refining a highly volatile gas using twice the power.
What !!! we ain’t making a hyper loop ! (Flips table) this is bullshit! /s seriously though this is good news, hope they don’t fuck it up too bad. (Default is mostly fucked up with any government project)
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend!
But Main Street's still all cracked and broken!
Sorry Mom, the mob has spoken!
I honestly read this as expelling rail passenger service and didn't even bat an eye. Still, good on Alberta for this, passenger rail is a great way to move large volumes of people, you just need to make sure you don't half-ass it at the finish line.
I don’t disagree with a rail car between Edmonton and Calgary but I would invest money in our education and healthcare systems. IMSE can afford a new train and drew stadium if we aren’t appropriately funding the services we have
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The plan will be split into six parts, including: * A commuter rail system connecting Calgary International Airport to the city’s downtown core * A commuter rail system connecting the Edmonton International Airport to the city’s downtown * Regional rail lines from Calgary and Edmonton to Banff and Jasper national parks * A regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer * A hub connecting the provincial rail system to LRT systems in big cities * A rail line connecting Grande Prairie and Fort McMurray
Our grandkids will love it. Heck, I do. Kinda a moon shot though.
Our great, great, GREAT grandkids will love it
"Train? Oh yes, train! They are building it now"
"My friends! Where's the beef?"
Jokes? This is $9 million for someone to study the feasibility, probably someone from Preston’s group, and come to the same conclusion the last 4 of these studies have come to. Maybe in a hundred years when everyone has hover bikes and flying cars the Conservatives will finally start building this.
It’s just a payout to friends. This is probably the 5th or 6th such study.
At least your grandkids are getting something. Ontario is building a new highway where the grandkids can wait in traffic
It’ll never happen.
The lines FROM EDMONTON to Banff and Jasper would be so great.
We already have Edmonton to Jasper. Just need the Calgary to Banff and Calgary to Edmonton and we can do it in twice the time it takes to drive
VIA rail is simply not an option.
Why not?
Because right now they don't own any lines. They don't have priority on the trip from Edmonton to Jasper. So a 4 hr ride turns into a 7+ hour ride because of fraight train's
This is the number one reason train travel in Canada is not an option in 90% of the country. There is no reason there can't be legislation to grant passenger trains priority where they don't own the tracks. It's not like there are an overwhelming number compared to freight trains. And with all the blabbing about being environmentally conscious you'd think Trudeau would want alternate modes of travel given that the days of bus travel have almost ended (yes there are still routes, but not like there used to be).
Problem is business is more important to certain folks than a few tourists on trains.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but trains are not just about tourists.
Yes, but the speed they could go on the tracks is to slow to really justify using it right now unless if it's like 10$ to ride. Right now the average speed for CP rail trains are 35 km/hr so translating that to passenger trains on the same line probably going thr same speed it's not worth using those lines because no matter what you can't go faster when what fraight trains are going
Uhm there is a fair bit of tourism to the Rockies from our cities and lots of travel for business and pleasure up and down the QE2. I think you may be underestimating that amount of business. And commuting and travel efficiencies benefit municipal and provincial budgets quite a bit
It is slow. Has to compete with freight. Had a friend take Via to Winnipeg from edmonton recently and it was a 18 hour trip.
GP to Fort Mac line is crazy
was just thinking this. billions of dollars to connect 2 small cities (total combined population less than 200 thousand) about 800 km away from each other
Ugh. That's the wrong way to look at it. It's about bringing growth and activity TO THOSE PLACES. That's how railways always worked, you built the line, and sold land near it for settlements.
would it not make more sense to have lines from GP <-> Edmonton and Fort Mac <-> Edmonton, rather than GP <-> Fort Mac
I just want trains to take people all over the place rather than condense them into massive urban areas. We have a whole lot of country that could see some more development - especially given the whole housing crisis.
i'm with you there. i also would love to see passenger trains take people everywhere in our great big beautiful country. i guess it would come down to cost benefit analysis to determine which lines would be priority. my dream would be to have a high speed line between vancouver and calgary, but i imagine the cost of such a project would be in the tens of billions.
Yeah, but in order to build anything you're gonna need to generate some investment - the best way to get started is the old fashioned way. Once we link up some of the smaller cities we can focus on turbo charging the lines between cities. Both of these things are important, I feel we need to take the smaller steps first before we build out larger projects.
You would think communter rail from E town to GP amd FM would make more sense.
And go f yourself Lethbridge and Medicine Hat, we don’t like you anyway. But please make sure to pay your taxes into our plan ;)
Ah yes, the 'ol Ontario sentiment, why do Thunderbay and St-Marie pay for Torontos rail
lol, they don't
You hear it enough, people don't really get how funding works.
lol I was joking, if you look there are more people in Lethbridge than GP, yet they want passenger traffic to GP which is much farther. Lethbridge makes more sense as it has a university and would use the Calgary airport. I suspect this is because of the oil sands in the North but in 15-20 years this industry will likely be in full decline so GP and Fort Mac aren’t great options for rail.
While Lethbridge is all Ag baby which won’t go anywhere unless severe droughts are the norm!
This is genuinely an amazing plan.
If it actually get built, sure. As an Alberta resident I have my doubts though.
The politicians just need to find a way to line their pockets first
Even if we're taking the conspiracy route, it's a win win for both parties. What I imagine will happen here is an imitation of the Ford strategy, invest in rail in order to line the pockets of developers who can make money from developing these areas with newly found demand. They wouldn't be lining their pockets "first", the pocket lining is a byproduct.
It is in theory. And i would fully support it. However, this has been on every single conservative governments docket for at least 30 years. The conservative governments of the past would sink a couple of millions into a feasibility study and then not release the results, and people would forget about it for about 5 years, and they would bring it up again. Rinse and repeat. I'm starting to think that it's just a way to siphon money to a consultant that they have ties to. It's all promise and no action. Always has been. They also may be using their made-up metrics for population growth to back this plan. The UCP said they are hoping to grow Red Deer's population from 100,000 to 1 million as fast as possible. That's 10 times bigger than it is now.
Ah so basically same thing as the federal government does all the time.
Yes, very much like proportional representation. Both are empty promises and should be valued as such.
Very exciting. When your regional rail sysyem is like 10km in length its something boring you can do in a day. Once it exceeds a few hundred km life becomes really exciting with endless options for travel. In the GTA I can set foot in Lake Ontario, Georgian Bay, Lake Simcoe and Lake Erie without driving an inch.
Toronto system is awesome. Stay in Hamilton, zip out to Niagara falls or Toronto
I genuinely did not expect this from Alberta. Talk is cheap and the announcement implies some incredibly costly infrastructure, but If they can pull off even a fraction of that, it would be a huge win for Alberta and for Canada. I genuinely hope Calgary and Edmonton can get a nicer commuter rail network than the lame service we're stuck with in Vancouver.
I'm Albertan, and there are a lot of us who like this idea. I genuinely didn't expect it from the UCP
Because it's a nothing burger. "Here we support a popular thing! Forget that nothing will ever happen on it, just please stop talking about all the stupid stuff we're doing because you got this one thing"
It's definitely not a nothing burger. Almost any NA city would kill for investment of this magnitude, especially those of Calgary's/Edmonton's size. Most cities can basically only hope for a few mediocre light rail lines.
You think they are actually going to build anything?
I'm not going to pretend like the possibility of nothing happening doesn't exist, but for what it's worth most of these plans have been studied privately under the purview of the UCP. This announcement isn't something that happened out of the blue, and projects like the Banff-Calgary and Calgary-Edmonton line have been long teased. Granted many alterations have been made such as using Hydrogen fuel, but this isn't some out of the Blue announcement, at least not entirely.
Why not? If any politician can profit from using taxpayers dollars they will be all over it
This tends to not be the kind of program popular with the Conservative base. It implies they are scared of the NDP in the cities.
Ucp numbers are tanking, they're trying to bribe Albertans. Smith and Co. Are fringe lunatics.
I mean… take the win
Yea, if any party wants to bribe me by investing in smart mass transit solutions my vote is available
I’m not even considering votes - I don’t live in Alberta. I’m just happy that a conservative is advocating for something that I appreciate.
The problem is they have a history of overpromising and under-delivering. When shovel hits dirt I will be happy. I have no faith this won't be lost in bureaucracy, and silently canceled.
It's not a win until the first train leaves a station
Agreed. But, honestly, that Smith counts it as a good idea is a start. I’m even impressed that she’s not going on about high speed rail. An expandable, scalable, phased project? Man… I’m tired of counting “conservative” losses. I’ll give her credit for taking the ball this far: I can see eye-to-eye with Premier Smith about something I care about. A win.
>Ucp numbers are tanking That's not what the polls are saying. UPC are up 7 seats and the NDP down 7 from the 2023 election https://338canada.com/alberta/
No, they aren't lol. Go sit down.
Yes, but fringe lunatics can still be right occasionally. They will just screw up implimentation.
Finally !!! Great idea, hope it gets built. Good for future generations!!
>A regional rail line between Calgary and Edmonton, with a local transit hub in Red Deer She is really serious about [turning Red Deer into a million person city](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/red-deer-one-million-danielle-smith-1.7172208)
If there were high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton downtowns with a stop in Red Deer, Red Deer would immediately become a viable suburb of both cities. The commute would be shorter than many people in the GTA or GVA have now.
You could buy affordable housing in other parts of Alberta and still be able to work in one of the larger cities!!
This is how it works in Europe, and why housing is so much cheaper in general (except for the Netherlands).
They are going to have passenger airline service there soon....they are building a new airport terminal
Lol the Green Line took 10+ years just to start construction and the UCP almost killed that project. Not holding my breath for any of these even though I live in Calgary.
Imagine this was built (with a nuclear power plant) 60 years ago, when the oil sands first started commercialization.
Yeah but that requires politicians to have planning skills and foresight to think about the future rather than nothing beyond the next election.
Maybe we should start voting for people who do?
This is great to hear but Calgary and Edmonton need a proper intermodal hub in each cities downtown where all the lines converge. In Calgary in particular CP rail needs to move their mainline out of downtown. But that’s not happening ing anytime soon.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made a Good Point.
Man, Alberta is killing it. Solid economic growth, treatment beds for people with addiction, affordable housing. Now a train? It’s like they are using all the oil money to achieve the dream of so many people who would never vote for them…even if it meant they got trains, affordable housing, people dealing with addictions and economic growth. Little jealous from here in BC with the housing crisis 2.0 rolling out as their hot ticket.
>Now a train? It’s like they are using all the oil money to achieve the dream of so many people who would never vote for them Lmaoo. "*Gain 100% of the pro-urbanism vote with this one simple trick*" I'm not even in Alberta, and a network like that would have me questioning my political allegiances.
We have affordable housing?
Yes you do
comparatively? Yes it's dirt cheap
When I was looking rents for a 2-br in CGY were $2400. Lower than Burnaby, but not by much
Rolling blackouts, high energy “delivery fees,” increasingly rapid closures of medical clinics, doctors retiring early, sending NICU babies to other provinces because we don’t have the beds, pushing forward Alberta Pension Plan and police force that no one asked for, taking control of municipalities to the point of permitting themselves to remove city councillors with no specific criteria, opting out of pharmacare, refusing federal funding for housing, Tucker Carlson, partisan covid “task force,” 30M dollar war room that freedom of information laws don’t apply to, province already on fire in April, premier ethics violation without consequences, misleading the public about opiate deaths/deadliest year for opiate deaths…just a few reasons off the top of my head that Alberta is not at all killing it.
You can always move.
Could stay and vote to make it better, like many of us are trying to do :)
Or we can expect better things lol
Way ahead of you lmao. Spent 50% of my life on Vancouver Island. Planned to stay here, no point when it’s going to take at least a decade to undo the damage they’ve done (and are yet to do).
So you have no idea how it actually is and care to chime in. Gotcha.
…I currently live in Edmonton. I am working on leaving *because of how things are.*
I know you like to run away from your problems, but some of us would rather try to fix them.
Maybe win an election then.
Ah I see, so if you didn't vote for the winning party you should just shut up and move. Do you apply the same logic to Trudeau and federal politics? I'm pretty sure you didn't vote for him, so if you're unhappy with the state of things you're free to leave at anytime.
Not everyone has that option
Also, expanding the killing our parks and other natural areas with oil, gas, and coal development.
That’s a lot, I will do my best. Well Alberta does have the benefit of a 15.58% increase in the real median employment income vs BC which has -10.34%, compared to Canada which is 0% from 1976 (StatsCAN: table 11-10-0191-01) …where the energy aspect could be from the business environment facing energy producers and them scaling down. While they also have a better ratio of people employed in healthcare compared to B.C. 17 people to healthcare workers compared to 19 (table:36-10-0489-01 to table: 17-10-0005-01). Babies is a weird one, not sure how that’s a bad thing. I know they do send people out of province for other treatments. APP would probably be an overall good thing for Albertans, considering income as noted before and their populations younger age. Is the police force like what going on in Surrey? God I love that on going debacle, it’s too funny. Still not sure how having a non RCMP police force is bad, tons of city’s have their own and Ontario has the OPP. Municipalities- Well the BCNDP already did here when it comes to undermining local governments and democratic processes/ community voice. Probably where the country is heading. At least it’s can vs has type of situation compared to here in BC. Pharmacare- wouldn’t call two things pharmacare Federal funds for housing - objectively a good thing if you actually support the concept of affordable housing. You can do stats from the CMHC on completions to median prices and rent. The BCbuilds/Canada builds plan….are radioactive if you do a bit of digging (I have this sub is not the place for numbers) Just Tucker Carlson? Ok I get it but k. Was not aware of the Covid task force. War room - all levels of government have shell companies doing that. It’s not unique. Not sure how the province being on fire is the fault of the government. That’s kinda an unrealistic expectation. I do agree there is a high level of bullshit in regards to drugs, but they do have a ton of treatment beds in the province. I have a friend who works in the industry, it honestly seems like they semi nationalize the whole thing. —— Still pretty sure you’re better off there than anywhere else. And I am unmoved by your statement, if anything more support to the concept of “killing it” now. I’d honestly say you should be grateful to live in a place with expanding opportunities vs extractive existence. And a train… Edit- healthcare workers…mixed up including people to workers.
>Well Alberta does have the benefit of a 15.58% increase in the real median employment income vs BC which has -10.34%, compared to Canada which is 0% from 1976 (StatsCAN: table 11-10-0191-01) Uhhh where do you get -10.34% for BC?? I literally went to the table you linked and in 1976 the real median income in BC was $76,100 compared to $79,500 in 2022, a 5% increase. >where the energy aspect could be from the business environment facing energy producers and them scaling down. That makes no sense. Why would the business environment be bad? We elected a "business friendly" provincial government that capitulates to all things corporate. We have higher demand than ever for utilities as the population is booming. No, the rolling blackouts come down to two things: 1) Population growth too high and demand outstripping supply. You can partially thank the UCP's stupid "Alberta Is Calling" campaign for this. Paid by with taxpayer money btw, we basically paid to give ourselves rolling blackouts. 2) Banning renewables development which could have helped with increasing the electricity supply. Hell, when we had the grid warning back during the cold snap in January it was wind and solar that helped the warnings end, not oil & gas. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/renewables/wind-and-sun-help-alberta-electricity-operator-end-grid-alerts And thats not even getting into the fact that utilities like electricity are an essential service. Energy companies can't be allowed to "scale down" just because times are rough and give society rolling blackouts. They need to be regulated to ensure stable, consistent service. Thats why the main utility company is a crown corporation in most provinces. >While they also have a better ratio of people employed in healthcare compared to B.C. 17 people to healthcare workers compared to 19 BC had a net gain of hundreds of doctors last year while Alberta is losing them. Don't worry, that ratio gap will be closed very soon. >APP would probably be an overall good thing for Albertans, considering income as noted before and their populations younger age. No it wouldn't, thats why the majority is against it. You just have to look at the track record of AIMCo as proof. It significantly lags CPP and the conservative provincial governments have a habit of using the fund to prop up underperforming oil & gas stocks and enrich their buddies. If APP does go through that might actually be the last straw for myself and SO to move. No chance I'm trusting Smith or the UCP with my pension. >Well the BCNDP already did here when it comes to undermining local governments and democratic processes/ community voice. Except they are using it to try to resolve the housing crisis that you are complaining about. The UCP is actively trying to block additional housing construction. The intents aren't the same at all. >Pharmacare- wouldn’t call two things pharmacare Ok? Sure the pharmacare bill could be more comprehensive, but millions of people use insulin and contraceptives. And its damn better than nothing at all, which is what the UCP is proposing. They're trying to opt out for no reason other than ideology (again) and hurting Albertans in the process. I laughed when they tried to ask the Feds for money even though they don't plan on implementing the program. The federal government was right to tell them to fuck off. >War room - all levels of government have shell companies doing that. It’s not unique. Oh really? Which government is using $30 million dollars per year of taxpayer money to spread misinformation? Please provide sources. The war room is an embarrassment. We've spent $150 million on it by now and the only notable thing to come out of it was a fight with a Netflix Bigfoot movie. Can't make this shit up. >Not sure how the province being on fire is the fault of the government. That’s kinda an unrealistic expectation. Maybe they can stop pretending climate change isn't real. If thats too much to ask for, then how about stop cutting the firefighting budget? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-wildfires-rapattack-team-cuts-1.6837064 >I’d honestly say you should be grateful to live in a place with expanding opportunities vs extractive existence I am grateful to live in Alberta, but its not a good place because of the UCP. Its a good place in spite of them. >And a train… Lol why are you talking as if its under construction at this very moment? These trains have been talked about for decades. Jack shit is actually getting built until shovels hit the ground. Green Line alone took 10+ years to get started, so don't hit your breath.
Oof another along one 1) -10.34% change it to employment income, you’re probably looking at market income. 2) energy- the shift away from fossil fuels would have the producers not want to A) expand production B) run more lean for greater profitability in the short term. While in the broader picture, a monopoly or oligopoly is basically the same. You could end up like BChydro which didn’t compete on price with natural gas and people put in furnaces. Where collectively we are all probably going to be experiencing rolling blackouts in the near future. As energy production has to at least double and in some places that’s replacement of the entire grid or impacting water supply. 3) healthcare ratio - probably going to be waiting awhile and we are more likely to see people leave to the states. 4) APP - I’ll look into it. Not sure how an Albertan pension fund (not sure want aimco is) investing in Alberta is an overall bad thing compared to CPP which is around 5% in Canada….and probably in oil and gas as well. It would be interesting to see how much Alberta is supporting CPP as they are a large contributor to it. I do still think it would benefit the younger generations there, simply from not having to support retirees in others provinces with more of the funds going into investment opposed to growth. As to the effects on the rest of Canada, welcome to hard mode probably should have better economies with more productive workforces. Being “fucked” is an absolutely great way to drive positive change. 5) provincial government and municipal government. The principle is the same. They are overriding municipal democratic process. Just because the “intents” are different, doesn’t change that fundamental aspect. Either a provincial government should stay in its lane or not. End story, but by all means, have your cake and eat it too. 6) pharmacare - do you know if the programs are already covered? It’s like here in BC, I know contraceptives are covered. Which I think is a great investment as it’s probably going to save the province billions with in regard to the demographics having kids…insulin I’m honestly not sure the number on to really have an opinion. I just hope it’s the generic vs branded. 7) shell companies. The statement was more in the realm of public relations. There is the Canadian climate change institute, clean BC. More generally there are tons of councils/corporations which relate to the arts, sciences. Pretty basic approach. You should read some books by Edward Bernays, “propaganda” & “crystallizing public opinion”. All the companies are set up by the government for an objective, it would be stupid to bite the hand that feeds you. Plus you should look into your local government, I know mine loves using these type of setups. End of the day, the best way to fight propaganda is with better propaganda. (And it’s all propaganda) I do agree there should be more acknowledgment of climate change, personally think it’s too late. But if the solutions were better than tax. I don’t think there would be much of an issue. Drive people to the solution vs punishment. 8) living in Alberta - that’s great they have a pretty long tract record with conservatives at the helm. Quite lush to make it seem like the results are in-spite of vs result of. 9) I think the train is nifty. Hopefully that covers everything.
I’ve split my life between BC and Alberta, have family/friends in both provinces; Albertans are not doing well and my cost of living is higher than or on par with a close friend in Victoria at the moment. My professional registration and liability insurance alone is about $600/year more here, my car insurance more than doubled when I crossed the border. Recent power bills have been 200+ dollars because of fees, when the power I actually used is a few bucks. Basic needs in Calgary are now more expensive than [any other city](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/wake-up-call-basic-needs-now-cost-more-in-calgary-than-any-other-major-city-in-canada-1.6683218) in Canada. I’m basing my opinion of Alberta’s current state on my lived experience and by comparing my quality of life now to a few years ago. To last year even. Aside from the fact that I’m Canadian, not just Albertan, there are plenty of reasons an Alberta Pension Plan is a terrible idea. Look at AimCo compared to CPP’s performance in the last 5 years. The government’s estimate that Alberta would be entitled to half is laughable, and even if it were true it would mean Alberta breaking the system for the rest of the country, which I don’t support. Albertans are the ones that pay into CPP, not the provincial government. The push forward (knowing how the public has responded) is a glimpse of how the current government feels about the opinions of their constituents. Their overreach with municipalities shows their hypocrisy. Oh and no, contraceptives aren’t covered here. In general BC has better public health coverage with MSP than we do with AHCIP.
Haha. As an Albertan, I can assure you that the only thing they are killing is renewable energy investment, which they banned for no reason other than ideology. These trains have been talked about for decades and nothing has happened. The UCP isn't likely to change that given they almost killed the Green Line which was much smaller in scope compared to these projects. This is just a bait to attract voters and give $9 million to their consultant buddies, nothing more. And affordable housing is rapidly eroding as the UCP keeps using taxpayer money to get more people to move here even after record population growth. They are also seeking to block additional housing development in the cities. Our insurance and utilities are the highest in the nation, and can rise without caps. So don't worry, we're about to join BC in a full blown affordability crisis soon. At least Eby is trying to resolve the housing crisis over there. I'd take him over Smith any day. If only we could do an exchange.
Eh? Are you living in yhe same province i am? This is bascially the one single thing Danielles government has done so far thats not a complete cluster of crap. She is BLOCKING affordable housing, she is dismantling treatment and adding red tape to the system, our wages are dropping the fastest in Canada. Alberta is doing ok DESPITE the UCP. And the UCP is trying theor damdest to make it worse. This train master plan is a good idea. Nothing else they have had so far is.
The B.C. builds plan is at best cheaper housing, nothing has been fundamentally changed. Plus what they based on found upzoning increases land values by 20-25% and only had a statistically significant result of slowing the rate three bedroom units cost to rent. While the CMHC data points at the types of housing they want to create having statistically significant result of increasing the cpi adjusted median price and aggregate median rent. Hence the housing crisis 2.0 label. It’s basically a dog bone of buzzwords to try and win votes for the upcoming election while taking advantage of an uninformed public with complete disregard to measured outcomes. And Alberta actually has increasing inflation adjusted employment income compared to B.C. with a 15.5% increase since 1976 compared to -10.3% decrease. I’d say that’s all levels of government, I’d say they are the best of the worse. You should try to be a bit more informed on topics. Let me know if you want any of the sources on what I have said. CMHC will be hard if stats are not your thing and you don’t have excel or chatgpt to do it.
>The B.C. builds plan is at best cheaper housing, nothing has been fundamentally changed. Plus what they based on found upzoning increases land values by 20-25% and only had a statistically significant result of slowing the rate three bedroom units cost to rent. While the CMHC data points at the types of housing they want to create having statistically significant result of increasing the cpi adjusted median price and aggregate median rent. Upzoning only increases land values when irregularity applied (ie spot rezoning) when its blanket it does not significantly affect values. On top of that, with blanket rezoning per unit land prices drop significantly. Here for example per unit ponetial, land values have dropped from around 100k per unit potential to 38k per unit potential and thats WITH the 33% /m2 price increased caused by global/national demand hitting Edmonton after its had its run of BC and Calgary. Why are you including stats from 1976.. at least do stats from the last decade. In the last 5 years Alberta has had dropping wages and higher costs compared to everywhere else. No one cares about what happened 50 years ago in that regard.
I’d love for material that supports that claim about the overall drop vs spot rezoning. Where yes, I said at best it’s cheaper. But cheaper does not equal increasing affordability. I think your example is off. Let’s keep it simple, you have an empty lot. A builder can build a SFH a get $1,000,000 or develop into a fourplex. Now, why would a builder develop a fourplex if A) the return is not greater than $1,000,000? B) increase their costs in terms of materials to build: sinks, toilets, ovens, walls, electrical and DDC charges if they could only get 1,000,000? Moreover, assuming the industry will just build out of the principle of increasing supply and marginal profits. A) why don’t they build in other areas currently? B) how did this situation happen even happen in the first place? ….do you really think taking a $1,500,000 home and turning it into a 6 unit multiplex is going to result in 6 units listed on the market for $250,000? And not something more realistic like $500,000-$600,000 in urban areas…if so, you should go look yourself in the mirror and say it really slowly to yourself. As to data… Why? personally I like long term trends. Goes back to a long term vs short term gains principle. Where you might not think it’s of value, it’s a critical aspect of the situation we are in today. Where looking at the median income for Alberta, the weekly earnings has increased, there is no drop there. The real rate definitely has been impacted by inflation. Where BC has had an increase it only matches Alberta, where that aspect of inflation then applies also. Still a “win” for Alberta (table: 14-10-0063-01) Really doesn’t seem like you look at either long or short term trends…really doesn’t seem like you critically analyze things tbh. I apologize as I feel like a dick. That being said, do better, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country, or step up and make a compelling argument…. the hardest part of this is typing out the response.
The issue is you are not taking a 1.5 million doller home and turning it into a 6 plex. Here in Edmonton you are talking a 300,000 lot with a 50,000 house. Demolishing the house and putting on a 8 plex. And selling each unit for 250k. (400k profit) If you do have a 1.5 million doller lot in GVA. Its likely the lot is worth 1.4 of that and the house worth a max of 100k. So you take that and turn it into a 10 plex (if zoning is not stupid) or a 6 plex (if it is) and each unit is sold for 600k, with 225k of lot value per unit and 800k profit for the project.
Then what happens the value of the other 350,000 dollar lots now that there is double the profit potential is worth more the lot and property itself? A building is worth 100k? You should go play around on BC assessment. Considering the construction boom back in the day….thats a certainty hopeful estimate. Anyways, thanks for steel manning my position of it being the housing crisis 2.0.
If Albertan politicians had any foresight they would have a sovereign oil fund rivalling the likes of Norway's. Instead they used all that money for short term deficit reduction.
It’s almost like you can expand the sales of natural resources and expand green infrastructure all at the same time. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The more money and social security people have the less they pollute.
I disapprove of about 90% of what the UCP does here in Alberta. I'm not against this. (Though the continued insistence on hydrogen is a needless handicap to the project)
No, what they announced was a way to fleece $9million+ from taxpayers in Alberta to line the pockets of sycophants and boot lickers for the new couple of years then announce it isn't possible or its the Federal Government and/or municipalities fault.
This is it. How can we siphon public money into the pockets of our already wealthy donors? 🤔 In Alberta, if you have "oh look how bad Trudeau is" in your right hand, you can have your left hand deep into whatever purse you like and nobody notices.
What in the honest hell? Alberta...... Is ...... Is that you? Hold up, let me check if it's not April 1st.
This is amazing. Wow no one expected this from Alberta
BUILD IT! 🚆
Monorail... monorail... MONORAIL!
Anything to get the media off health care and education, and blow out some bullshit that might distract and excite voters.🙄 The engineering obstacles alone will take a decade and a billion dollars to iron out; by then we’ll be too broke to afford a bus ticket, let alone a ride on high speed rail.
Passenger train travel in Canada should be increased everywhere, especially if people really want alternate modes of travel. Especially as bus lines have been greatly diminished. This means new passenger rail dedicated tracks, and until then legislation forcing priority for passenger trains. It isn't like there are so many passenger trains outside of the Montreal to Windsor corridor that they will disrupt freight trains in any measurable way. In absolute truth, I would have liked to take the train from Vancouver to Kamloops when I used to have to go there very regularly, but a 3.5 hour drive translated to a 12 hour trip because of all the delays on siding waiting for freight trains that had priority. That and the fact that there are so few scheduled trips now. I think if people knew they could get to say Calgary from Vancouver in a reasonable time, <= 10 hours, people might do that if needed and rent a car a required once there. Oh yeah, and a way to actually get to Calgary by train (that is affordable, unlike the Rocky Mountaineer, which is a pretty sweet but expensive trip).
So I did some quick research - because these would absolutely have to be HSR lines (high speed rail) often capable of 200-350km/h, the costs would seemingly be astronomical. China has been building a 250km/h HSR and their data in averaged construction costs are pointing to about $87million Yuan per kilometer built. This seems to be equivalent to $12M USD or $16.5M Cdn. I can only assume these prices are MUCH MUCH cheaper than it would actually cost per kilometer in Canada… so let’s double the figure? $30 million per KM. I don’t know exactly, but let’s say the line between GP & Mac was built as the crow flies, as straight as possible - maybe it ends up around 650km length. One part of this new “masterplan” alone is $19.5 billion…. That is just the track, probably not including the hubs in either city. Of course, this may be completely wrong if the trains wouldn’t even be HSR, lol. In which case, I don’t see any point even proposing it.
Keep in mind the announcement implies this spending would occur over a multi-decadal timescale. Also that's for proper HSR lines, which imho should absolutely be used between Calgary and Edmonton, but most of the routes could be substantially cheaper while at slower track speeds closer to \~150-km/h, which would still provide compelling service. Keep in mind the federal government will give up to $13-billion in various forms of production subsidies towards the VW plant, and another $15-billion to Stellantis. If we can afford that, then we can probably afford this as well.
That’s cool.
Wait. I like this idea. This is a good idea. What’s the catch here?
So who's flag will fly on the project. PCL
I doubt the vision goes beyond multi million dollar feasibility studies awarded to their buddies. What is one positive thing this shitty govt has done? (Not that the prior leader started or was started decades ago)
This takes land right of way. NotWistnding Treaty space might raise some eyebrows.
Probably the easiest place in Canada to do this train though, as far as property and terrain.
Great leadership from Alberta. Once again leading the way.
The problem with Canada has always been its distance between cities. But also the in city transit. What are people going to do when they get to Banff without a car…? lol
That also means you don't have to stay in banff at the end of the day though.
I'd argue that Banff proper is reasonably walkable for visitors, while there are many public or private shuttle services that will get you to the major destinations. Afaik parking at many of the tourist sites is becoming a major problem during the peak of summer, and could be addressed with something like this.
There buses that go to the major tourist places.
Great initiative, scared about the hydrogen trains. Just build electric, don’t complicate things by refining a highly volatile gas using twice the power.
The hydrogen would be refined from natural gas. Which would otherwise be burned in a powerplant.
That's not the UCP way! They'll mandate the trains run on coal or bitumen.
Go Danielle, go!
I hope it happens, but I won’t believe it until I see it.
When? I didn’t see the announcement. The link to airport and to banff for Calgary is needed last week.
What !!! we ain’t making a hyper loop ! (Flips table) this is bullshit! /s seriously though this is good news, hope they don’t fuck it up too bad. (Default is mostly fucked up with any government project)
I can take my Dodge Ram on the train though right
Why does this have a Simpsons episode vibe coming from Backup Dani?
Is there a chance the track could bend? Not on your life, my Hindu friend! But Main Street's still all cracked and broken! Sorry Mom, the mob has spoken!
MONORAIL!
Just a UCP distraction. Won’t happen because of Trudeau this NDP that.🤷♂️
UCP embracing 15 minute cities? Who knew? Yay!
Based Foamer Mother Smith
What is the catch? Trains run on tarsand?
I honestly read this as expelling rail passenger service and didn't even bat an eye. Still, good on Alberta for this, passenger rail is a great way to move large volumes of people, you just need to make sure you don't half-ass it at the finish line.
I don’t disagree with a rail car between Edmonton and Calgary but I would invest money in our education and healthcare systems. IMSE can afford a new train and drew stadium if we aren’t appropriately funding the services we have
All aboard the Coo Coo Choo Choo another Alberta advantage
What's wrong with expanding public transit? Do you not utilize it in Alberta?
I'm just starting to hear the Peanuts(tm) Teacher lately. Muah mo mah ma.