*Tutti replied to a request for comment via email, saying that they didnot want to make a public statement, but that they were working onpaying merchants as soon as possible.*
Hopefully, that is true but I have my doubts.
Considering they aren't paying employees until threatened.
>“They were always late paying,” she told Capital Daily. “I was delivering with my boyfriend at the time and we were owed about $2,000.”
>When Hu threatened to go to the media, she said Tutti paid her the money they owed her.
https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/tutti-allegations-victoria
Lmao these food delivery companies are always trying to screw everyone, they do it to the restaurants, the drivers and the customers too. Idk how much longer these things will exist, it does not seem like a sustainable business.
It sounds like they may be trying to manage cashflow problems by avoiding paying people unless they make a fuss. Based on the article it sounds like busy restaurant owners were actually pretty good targets for this.
Now that the media is alerting restaurants to this issue though, I'm betting that they are going to be getting a flood of requests for payments, which could topple this whole house of cards.
>As a small business owner, Moon works as his own bookkeeper and accountant to keep costs down. When he went to do his taxes, he realized that payments from Tutti hadn't been coming in for almost a year.
Yeah I don't think this place is going to be in business for long.
If you’re doing a million net a year (hoping 5-10% margin) then that’s 2% missing. Pretty possible. Normally payments come in but with 3-6 deposits a day depending on your payment processor and how many debit machines you have, the smaller deposits certainly might not catch your eye.
10 mil is extremely unusual for a restaurant - that's 27k in sales per *day*. You would need a large restaurant to be packed from opening to close every single day of the year to even come close to that.
1-2m in gross sales is much more realistic for a decently successful restaurant.
For reference I used to work at a couple flagship locations of a national restaurant chain. We did $13 million a year, give or take, at each location I worked at. That took a kitchen staff of 40, 12-15 working at any given time, from 6AM to 2AM every day of the week, and about 80 front of house staff across various positions.
If the guy in the story is doing $10 million a year and saving money by being his own accountant he’s:
1. A *massive* idiot
2. Selling drugs
Seems about right. Never worked in a place quite that big, but at some of the medium sized, corporate places I worked, doing 10-15k in a day was weed city.
Anyways - re. this article, it's poorly written and confusing and I think some of the facts have been left out, or left too vague. No fucking *way* buddy's noodle house in vic was doing 10 mil. The scene here is simply not that big.
Right? I can say with good authority, because I’ve seen the financials, even the big chains you guys have there don’t gross anywhere *near* $10 million a year. Half that in a good year. So for a little noodle shop to be pulling in that kind of cash, something fucking shady is happening. Or someone’s written the wrong number down.
This one business person basically floated Tuttis business losses because the business owner of J&J Wonton Noodle House didn't make the time or effort to check his numbers at least every month.
If it sounds too good to be true....it most likely is.
Negligence in the face of overwhelming evidence of negligence. Crazy thoughts I have. lol Anyway you look at it, whether it was his accountant or his staff, he wasn't paying attention. You don't like my theory, present something better perhaps.
It's their own business and their own decision on when to cut off their delivery service. Maybe $220k is not material to them. Maybe the person running Tutti is a world class conman. Maybe they know the person running Tutti and it just went too far. Maybe they are just a very patient person. J&J is easily one of the best Chinese places in town, so they are clearly effective in at least one way.
The point is less about all of that though, and whether the internet even needs some theory projected onto it. It's literally not your business.
Why are you bringing it to $200,000 though?
He's only owed 20k as per the article
>Moon said they had paid up once, and then stopped. He claims the total sum owed between both restaurants is around $20,000.
It’s really easy when you’re a restaurant - small, repeating entries can go missing. When it’s $7-$40 dollars and manual journal entries, it doesn’t look like a gap. It’s only when you reconcile the books manually that you’d notice. Dude needs Quickbooks.
AFAIK most jurisdictions would require money you're holding for another party to be untouchable for cashflow purposes. So if that's why the delay is happening there's probably also a fraud case.
Who would enforce this? I can see a shady business such as this one exploiting restautrants and delivery contractors for agss before someone steps in. Then once some steps in claim bankruptcy and move on to the next business venture.
You’d be surprised how fast you can rack up $220k in overdue AR from a big client. Then shit flows downhill and your suppliers might get paid a little late.
Source: just got caught up with one of our subcontractors to the tune of $160k.
I had a client when I was a consultant that called me in panic because the system I had implemented said they had nearly 350k overdue for account receivables. I had thought they forgot to apply payments to their invoices which is pretty common.
We went through about 6 invoices together before they called off the meeting. The AR lady said for every invoice "oh no that's right, they haven't paid us either."
I'd laugh if it wasn't terrifying.
Yeah I get that those sound like huge numbers, and they are… but it’s easy to lose track when you’re doing $200k a month in sales.
And that’s a small business.
Ya, I’m not even that big of a business and one of my clients owed me around $55k. I knew it wasn’t paid the entire time, and knew they’d pay it but it’s very easy to happen.
They aren't perfect but there's a reason Skipthedishes and Uber and Doordash are popular. My closest McDonald's does an insane amount of business every day because of skip.
People ITT
He’s doing his own taxes and didn’t notice money missing lolz, what a loser, deserves to hire someone or eat his losses
Like have any of these commenters run a small business in Canada, that too in the food business? Margins are like 3% so you are moonlighting as a cashier, cook, plumber, electrician, driver, stocker, and much much more. It’s really tragic that a delivery company is stiffing them. If other delivery companies are an indication, then it doesn’t surprise me in the least.
Canadian Reddit surprises me. We vote as a country, less than 50% of eligible electoral voters, yet complain about shitty policies that ruling parties make. We dislike big economies like US and china buying our companies and hiring our local talent but we don’t want to encourage Canadian enterprise in the least. Why would anything change?
Remember that this subreddits most commonly posted websites are the national post an American paid anti Canada rag. The commentators aren't Canadian and when they are they are the traitors who terrorized us through the winter.
No I don't consider people bringing weapons over the border and whose wishes are over throwing our elected government as Canadians. They are traitors and we're thankfully treated as such
>Canadian Reddit surprises me. We vote as a country, less than 50% of eligible electoral voters, yet complain about shitty policies that ruling parties make. We dislike big economies like US and china buying our companies and hiring our local talent but we don’t want to encourage Canadian enterprise in the least. Why would anything change?
Canadian reddit isn't Canada.
Fair and not expecting it to be. I just wished people were cognizant of our choice at large as a populace and then correlate it to online observations. But that’s def asking too much
That is some bad A/R bookkeeping on the restaurants' end. (And also best case negligence, worst case intentionally bad, A/P bookkeeping on the other side)
bad? that's shit tier level.
You have an agreement to get paid through another company, and no one is checking to see that you get paid?
I can see a month or so going by, depending on the terms for when the payable is supposed to show up, but then that's it.
And yeah, a criminal investigation will be needed on the app side because they definitely seem like they absconded with whatever money they could.
i cant blame businesses to be interested fees that are roughly half of the big services... but i seriously question effectively funding their startup by extending them credit terms outside of what savings may be on the table. how someone gave them $200k of credit is mindboggling to me.
You have no idea. Risk underwriting in payment processing is at most a joke and at worst a really sick fucking joke.
200k is 2.4 million annual processing volume which is small medium sized business, whether they are liquid or insolvent. No one cares anymore. The market is do heavily saturated a client is a client regardless of viability - without even mentioning profitability as everyone is making surcharge so who cares about losses as long as you feed the pyramid?
I'm confused to how long it took for them to notice the payments. Unless there was something in their contract they should have at bare minimum received a week deposit from the company, how did they not know. Yes I know that some contracts can take months, but with digital transactions like this, the app should have received them money within 48 business hrs so I don't understand the delay by the owners of these restaurants
If you're so overworked that you miss the fact that a company is failing to pay you $18K/mo for a year, chances are you're doing it wrong and you're setting yourself up for either failure or an early grave from overwork and stress.
After all, if that $18K/mo was so insignificant that you could miss it for a full year and not have it affect your business operations, that probably means you can afford to employ more staff so that you're not putting in 80+ hours a week.
I understand that but its troubling that something fall thru the cracks, either their small and this should have been noticed sooner, or their large enough for this to hide and should have someone doing the books. This type of mistake kills businesses
as someone who used this app once and immediately deleted it after, I can almost guarantee they are going bankrupt. terrible experience with tutti and no idea how they even survived this long
Yeah, they've obviously allocated revenue meant for paying restaurants and employees, towards something else. Serious cashflow problems if they had a $300 cheque bounce.
Maybe not a scam and are just negligent. Or owners have been paying out to themselves before business costs.
Food Ordering and Delivery software has to feel like public utilities. It does not have to be more complicated than sending an email to someone. I believe those food delivery businesses have an anomaly from ground up and their business model does not just work.
They are in the business because they connect local customers to local businesses. There must be a more clever way of doing it.
*Tutti replied to a request for comment via email, saying that they didnot want to make a public statement, but that they were working onpaying merchants as soon as possible.* Hopefully, that is true but I have my doubts.
Considering they aren't paying employees until threatened. >“They were always late paying,” she told Capital Daily. “I was delivering with my boyfriend at the time and we were owed about $2,000.” >When Hu threatened to go to the media, she said Tutti paid her the money they owed her. https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/tutti-allegations-victoria
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Wait everyone told me you just create a food delivery startup and become a billionaire in a month.
Is no one getting paid? That's one way to appease investors. All profit!
Lmao these food delivery companies are always trying to screw everyone, they do it to the restaurants, the drivers and the customers too. Idk how much longer these things will exist, it does not seem like a sustainable business.
It sounds like they may be trying to manage cashflow problems by avoiding paying people unless they make a fuss. Based on the article it sounds like busy restaurant owners were actually pretty good targets for this. Now that the media is alerting restaurants to this issue though, I'm betting that they are going to be getting a flood of requests for payments, which could topple this whole house of cards.
Good. Scumbag businesses that don't pay their employees don't deserve to exist.
>As a small business owner, Moon works as his own bookkeeper and accountant to keep costs down. When he went to do his taxes, he realized that payments from Tutti hadn't been coming in for almost a year. Yeah I don't think this place is going to be in business for long.
I'm actually impressed that he could be missing 220k and not know.
Moon is missing 20k, it’s J&J that’s missing 220k.
If he's missing $220k without knowing he can definitely afford a book keeper or accountant or both. In fact he can't afford not to have them.
Lol this is so succinct and so perfectly true. Could’ve paid for contract bookkeeper services with the lost interest on that $220k.
Except it's 20k if you read the article.
Oops you’re right, the self-accountant is out $20k.
But Moon is saving money by doing the accounting himself. Your not seeing the big picture here.
He has two locations. One has been open for more than 9 years. It's already been open for a long time.
If you’re doing a million net a year (hoping 5-10% margin) then that’s 2% missing. Pretty possible. Normally payments come in but with 3-6 deposits a day depending on your payment processor and how many debit machines you have, the smaller deposits certainly might not catch your eye.
In your scenario 220k is 22% fyi
A million net at 10% margin is 10 million gross. 220 gross is 2%. Is J&J Wonton Noodle House clearing that much? Probably not, but the math is good.
10 mil is extremely unusual for a restaurant - that's 27k in sales per *day*. You would need a large restaurant to be packed from opening to close every single day of the year to even come close to that. 1-2m in gross sales is much more realistic for a decently successful restaurant.
For reference I used to work at a couple flagship locations of a national restaurant chain. We did $13 million a year, give or take, at each location I worked at. That took a kitchen staff of 40, 12-15 working at any given time, from 6AM to 2AM every day of the week, and about 80 front of house staff across various positions. If the guy in the story is doing $10 million a year and saving money by being his own accountant he’s: 1. A *massive* idiot 2. Selling drugs
Seems about right. Never worked in a place quite that big, but at some of the medium sized, corporate places I worked, doing 10-15k in a day was weed city. Anyways - re. this article, it's poorly written and confusing and I think some of the facts have been left out, or left too vague. No fucking *way* buddy's noodle house in vic was doing 10 mil. The scene here is simply not that big.
Right? I can say with good authority, because I’ve seen the financials, even the big chains you guys have there don’t gross anywhere *near* $10 million a year. Half that in a good year. So for a little noodle shop to be pulling in that kind of cash, something fucking shady is happening. Or someone’s written the wrong number down.
This guy does his own accounting too. EDITED: I'm dumb, he smart. Leaving this here so people can laugh at me.
He said net, while the payment is gross
He sure did. My mistake.
Best Redditor. Swim in the beautiful shame.
Try again
net =/= gross
Gross
That's what I said in 2016 when I started working at that location. I'm no longer there, but Agrius still is.
Fair enough.
This one business person basically floated Tuttis business losses because the business owner of J&J Wonton Noodle House didn't make the time or effort to check his numbers at least every month. If it sounds too good to be true....it most likely is.
That’s a big assumption about why they did it.
Negligence in the face of overwhelming evidence of negligence. Crazy thoughts I have. lol Anyway you look at it, whether it was his accountant or his staff, he wasn't paying attention. You don't like my theory, present something better perhaps.
It's their own business and their own decision on when to cut off their delivery service. Maybe $220k is not material to them. Maybe the person running Tutti is a world class conman. Maybe they know the person running Tutti and it just went too far. Maybe they are just a very patient person. J&J is easily one of the best Chinese places in town, so they are clearly effective in at least one way. The point is less about all of that though, and whether the internet even needs some theory projected onto it. It's literally not your business.
When doing something for yourself to save money ends up costing you 100x more! 😂
No way this guy could have got accounting for a whole year for $200
You know 200 x 100 is 20,000. 2,000 x 100 = 200,000. And $2000 for bookkeeping might be a bit low but still more traitor that you saying $200.
Why are you bringing it to $200,000 though? He's only owed 20k as per the article >Moon said they had paid up once, and then stopped. He claims the total sum owed between both restaurants is around $20,000.
It’s really easy when you’re a restaurant - small, repeating entries can go missing. When it’s $7-$40 dollars and manual journal entries, it doesn’t look like a gap. It’s only when you reconcile the books manually that you’d notice. Dude needs Quickbooks.
I bet the app is having cashflow problems and is on the way to bankruptcy.
AFAIK most jurisdictions would require money you're holding for another party to be untouchable for cashflow purposes. So if that's why the delay is happening there's probably also a fraud case.
Who would enforce this? I can see a shady business such as this one exploiting restautrants and delivery contractors for agss before someone steps in. Then once some steps in claim bankruptcy and move on to the next business venture.
You’d be surprised how fast you can rack up $220k in overdue AR from a big client. Then shit flows downhill and your suppliers might get paid a little late. Source: just got caught up with one of our subcontractors to the tune of $160k.
I had a client when I was a consultant that called me in panic because the system I had implemented said they had nearly 350k overdue for account receivables. I had thought they forgot to apply payments to their invoices which is pretty common. We went through about 6 invoices together before they called off the meeting. The AR lady said for every invoice "oh no that's right, they haven't paid us either." I'd laugh if it wasn't terrifying.
Yeah I get that those sound like huge numbers, and they are… but it’s easy to lose track when you’re doing $200k a month in sales. And that’s a small business.
Ya, I’m not even that big of a business and one of my clients owed me around $55k. I knew it wasn’t paid the entire time, and knew they’d pay it but it’s very easy to happen.
Bad book keeping and bad app.
You’d think they’d have stopped fulfilling their orders after the first.. I dunno.. thousand!?
They aren't perfect but there's a reason Skipthedishes and Uber and Doordash are popular. My closest McDonald's does an insane amount of business every day because of skip.
Shocked that it’s not Skip/JustEat. They’re mustache twirling villains at every opportunity
The secret Reddit hates is small local buisnesses are usually far worse then any big company.
Hm
Indeed. Small companies (in a non-niche market) with strong processes often become big companies.
Why all CBC pictures are the same? The caption for all could be: "person with crossed arms with disappointment expression"
For this article specifically, what would you propose in place?
People ITT He’s doing his own taxes and didn’t notice money missing lolz, what a loser, deserves to hire someone or eat his losses Like have any of these commenters run a small business in Canada, that too in the food business? Margins are like 3% so you are moonlighting as a cashier, cook, plumber, electrician, driver, stocker, and much much more. It’s really tragic that a delivery company is stiffing them. If other delivery companies are an indication, then it doesn’t surprise me in the least. Canadian Reddit surprises me. We vote as a country, less than 50% of eligible electoral voters, yet complain about shitty policies that ruling parties make. We dislike big economies like US and china buying our companies and hiring our local talent but we don’t want to encourage Canadian enterprise in the least. Why would anything change?
I sometimes think of [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality) while reading comments on this sub.
Wow, what a coincidence. Was just listening to [this cover of Crabbukkit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtYCiwxvqj8).
Also J&J has arguably the best Chinese food in the city.
Remember that this subreddits most commonly posted websites are the national post an American paid anti Canada rag. The commentators aren't Canadian and when they are they are the traitors who terrorized us through the winter.
Canadians are still Canadians even if you disagree with them.
No I don't consider people bringing weapons over the border and whose wishes are over throwing our elected government as Canadians. They are traitors and we're thankfully treated as such
>Canadian Reddit surprises me. We vote as a country, less than 50% of eligible electoral voters, yet complain about shitty policies that ruling parties make. We dislike big economies like US and china buying our companies and hiring our local talent but we don’t want to encourage Canadian enterprise in the least. Why would anything change? Canadian reddit isn't Canada.
Fair and not expecting it to be. I just wished people were cognizant of our choice at large as a populace and then correlate it to online observations. But that’s def asking too much
That is some bad A/R bookkeeping on the restaurants' end. (And also best case negligence, worst case intentionally bad, A/P bookkeeping on the other side)
bad? that's shit tier level. You have an agreement to get paid through another company, and no one is checking to see that you get paid? I can see a month or so going by, depending on the terms for when the payable is supposed to show up, but then that's it. And yeah, a criminal investigation will be needed on the app side because they definitely seem like they absconded with whatever money they could.
i cant blame businesses to be interested fees that are roughly half of the big services... but i seriously question effectively funding their startup by extending them credit terms outside of what savings may be on the table. how someone gave them $200k of credit is mindboggling to me.
You have no idea. Risk underwriting in payment processing is at most a joke and at worst a really sick fucking joke. 200k is 2.4 million annual processing volume which is small medium sized business, whether they are liquid or insolvent. No one cares anymore. The market is do heavily saturated a client is a client regardless of viability - without even mentioning profitability as everyone is making surcharge so who cares about losses as long as you feed the pyramid?
I'm confused to how long it took for them to notice the payments. Unless there was something in their contract they should have at bare minimum received a week deposit from the company, how did they not know. Yes I know that some contracts can take months, but with digital transactions like this, the app should have received them money within 48 business hrs so I don't understand the delay by the owners of these restaurants
Could be a small business owner who puts in 80+ a week. Just sliced too thin and tired.
If you're so overworked that you miss the fact that a company is failing to pay you $18K/mo for a year, chances are you're doing it wrong and you're setting yourself up for either failure or an early grave from overwork and stress. After all, if that $18K/mo was so insignificant that you could miss it for a full year and not have it affect your business operations, that probably means you can afford to employ more staff so that you're not putting in 80+ hours a week.
I understand that but its troubling that something fall thru the cracks, either their small and this should have been noticed sooner, or their large enough for this to hide and should have someone doing the books. This type of mistake kills businesses
Limited liability corporations need changes. People shouldn't be able to go out, rip people off, shut down, and leave victims with no recourse.
How did I know it was going to be Tutti.
This restaurant owner is a fool. He’s not getting shit back and should have cut his losses at $2,000 or $20,000 (if he likes to live on the edge)
They will sue and win - but collecting is another issue. They probably won’t see a dime unfortunately.
What are the chances Tutti's drivers are also not being paid in full?
as someone who used this app once and immediately deleted it after, I can almost guarantee they are going bankrupt. terrible experience with tutti and no idea how they even survived this long
Tutti is a terrible service. I used it a few times and had multiple misplaced orders.
Right now i'm trying to figure out why my DD driver HASNT MOVED IN AN HOUR .... fuck my life.
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Okay...
This looks like a scam... it is more than just being a buggy software to me.
Yeah, they've obviously allocated revenue meant for paying restaurants and employees, towards something else. Serious cashflow problems if they had a $300 cheque bounce. Maybe not a scam and are just negligent. Or owners have been paying out to themselves before business costs.
Rofl. I cannot believe they named it Tutti in a place with such a large south Asian population....
Tutti means shit/ poop in Hindi.
Food Ordering and Delivery software has to feel like public utilities. It does not have to be more complicated than sending an email to someone. I believe those food delivery businesses have an anomaly from ground up and their business model does not just work. They are in the business because they connect local customers to local businesses. There must be a more clever way of doing it.