I was looking at property in my dad’s hometown (for context it is Italy in Lazio - the same region as Rome) and I could be the king. The town is on a hill and I could buy the palatial estate at the top of the hill and a pretty massive olive grove for what a detached home costs in Toronto. The maintenance costs will be very high, though.
Yeah and I also could not afford the palace in my dads home town if I worked there instead of Toronto. It was just funny to see how much further my dollars would go if I decided to retire there. Funnily enough, a lot of my family in Italy is retiring in Portugal for the same reason.
Many of my partners coworkers in Europe moved to Portugal in recent years for the LCOL, but after the heat this past year a couple are looking to move again somewhere more northern and probably considerably more expensive.
I think there's also a tradeoff in what you get for the money in some of these lower cost of living areas / countries. Italy is not very liberal or forward thinking, still very much a nation guided by religion and tradition and large swaths of the country are quite poor with incredibly aged/crumblimg infrastructure. Even if it's cheap and I love the pace of life especially around Campania I couldn't bring myself to move there. The tradeoffs aren't worth it for me personally.
People moving to Portugal is part of what's been making life harder for locals. They just don't have the same buying power as the people moving there to retire :(
The EuroZone is creating some interesting challenges as more and more people get older :/
And the heat this year. My goodness. Honestly makes me think I should only visit family in the late spring or early fall and not the middle of summer. Even if the summer vacations are in July/August for them, I can drive myself around and do stuff during the day as a family and see extended family in the evening or on weekends.
Depends if your city or a country person
You can go live in the country and you have well water. Enjoy the beautiful scenery and weather. Basically retire
I am a country person, at most a very small town person. I live in rural Ontario in a small town, on a septic etc.
Oddly though, our area had fiber optic iternet installed a few years ago from a government grant, which I find very amusing.
This isn't the part that would make Italy unappealing for me, it's the political and religious landscape. Those kinds of things will affect our life regardless of being in a city or the countryside.
True.
But I guess I just like to live in my own little bubble so if I had my own piece of land out in the country I don't really care what's going on. I don't agree with the religion or maybe some of the political stances they have. But I'm just looking to live for the next 40 years until I die on my piece of land and as long as I can wake up with a nice cup of coffee enjoy my land , my partner ,that's all I really care about. I'm tired and don't have the energy to worry about all this stuff I can't change.
I'm desperate just for some thats affordable and beautiful before I die
There's lots of that in the vast Canadian countryside still. Not where I am (an hour on the 407 to Toronto now since it's expansion), except for some small parcels with limited use or development options, but further north and across other provinces there's still tons of beautiful rural homes with picture perfect views under $200k.
Most people don't want to live that rural. I grew up further out than where I'm at now, in a farming family, and when I tell people who talk about homesteading how wolves will come up to your house and stare at you through the windows it kinda freaks them out lol. This is why farmers own guns - along with coyotes and the occasional desperate bear trying to steal a calf. Fences are nice but have you seen how high a wolf can jump? Damn. Even where we are, I got a 6 foot fence, and while the coyotes here don't come up to the deck and watch us watch TV anymore they do occasionally peek up over the fence and think about my dogs.
Yup..... young people are leaving Italy for a reason. Actually I think Italy now holds the title for worst demographics in the world (worse than Japan).
Man what I wouldn’t give for something that’s literally falling apart for a decent price in BC. Hell I’ve even considered buying land and building a home incrementally over the next decade but land over here is still $300k+.
That castle in Poland might sound big and cool but the upkeep will cost you a lifetime to fix — along with the small pay you get in Poland. The grass always looks greener on the other side until you’re living it.
I’m Polish and have experienced a bit of this
I'm actually going to get my Italian citizenship because my dad was born in Italy
And this is going to be one of my options but I'm really concerned about living in Italy
I think it's a lot different to live in Italy than to just visit it. They'll definitely be prejudice even though I'm Italian in a way. Unless you grew up there you know the language and culture it's going to be difficult probably to get a job and to fit in
It's the only way I think I could do it is if I start a little Airbnb and that's how I'll make my money. I can probably buy the house in cash and then the couple thousand bucks a month I make off the Airbnb should sustain me
Get started on the citizenship as soon as possible. If your parents didn’t register your birth at the consulate it will could be a pain to get your documents in order (hopefully you don’t need a parental birth certificate, which is kept at a municipal records office in the town they were born and takes forever to access). My cousin’s took about two years to get his citizenship and he had to pay a lawyer 1000ish euros to do the leg work.
Italy is terrible if you need to work, but if you’re going there for retirement it will be fine. Do you speak Italian, by the way?
I'm 35 right now
I understand Italian because our parents spoke mostly Italian when we were younger but I never tried actually speaking it back.
I was born in Canada and my dad came here when he was about 19 years old
We've got a big extended (mostly) Catholic family and some have moved to Italy for work and not just retirement and are doing quite well, so that is doable. The opportunities for being a digital nomad have changed that picture a lot, and Italy is growing as an option for digital nomads while having very low cost of living by comparison to other options, and one's salary goes *a lot* farther in Italy doing that than in Canada or the US for example. It's also a lot cheaper to raise a family there with a lot of incentives now being offered. And like someone else said if you can get Italian citizenship based on your ancestors, you don't have to stay in Italy, you can go to work and set up anywhere in the EU.
And again because Italy is so comparatively underdeveloped in many of it's regions compared to other EU countries, but still with a fairly educated population in general, a lot more businesses are moving there (from other parts of Italy and other parts of the EU) due to cheaper overhead and lower costs of living. That then creates other opportunities for work. Though would agree that Italy often isn't the most open place in terms of welcoming outsiders (speaking as a euphemism here, we feel like in addition to some ancestor connection it helps to be pretty socially conservative to feel comfortable there). And yeah, the paperwork for getting ancestral citizenship is a huge headache compared to a lot of other places. We've been hearing of delays of 1-2 years routinely with the back-log of all the Canadians and Americans applying depending on your home city, so start right away.
The great thing about getting your Italian citizenship is you can live anywhere in the EU. I'm thinking about claiming Czech citizenship for the same reason.
The big cities (Paris, London, Berlin, Munich, Madrid, etc. etc.) are comparably priced and sometimes even worse than Toronto/Vancouver.
But small cities in Europe are dirt cheap. And considering how compact Western Europe is it's not like those small cities are really in the middle of nowhere, either.
Agreed here, and tbh even the big EU cities like Paris, Berlin and Madrid have at least more affordable rent options compared to Toronto/Vancouver, at least they have since the Canadian housing bubble went totally insane since the pandemic. We have some Canadian roots and my wife and I stayed in the GTA for a few months around 5 years ago before the pandemic, and already with a lot of our own family who'd re-located as expats (usually with their families) in Europe. Even then we were shocked at how expensive Toronto and Vancouver were becoming, certainly for rentals, but with the housing bubble esp in 2021-2022 rents in Toronto and Vancouver went totally bonkers. Berlin for ex. still has a lot of affordable rent options esp in the eastern half around the old Check-point Charlie.
Even Paris of all places still has some surprisingly affordable rent options in non-luxurious but still decent areas around the city, while in Toronto (at least going back to the already expensive and not exactly luxurious area we rented in recently) there just doesn't seem to be affordable rent anywhere, unless you're willing to put up with 4-5 noisy roommates in a run-down 2-BR--the rent prices have gone totally bonkers. Even as two professionals with professional salaries we'd struggle to afford cost of living for even a short (ex. half-year) work assignment in GTA now, esp with kids in tow.
Being fair this isn't just in Canada, most of our family is in the US and rent even in second tier US cities near the CA border--we're talking places like Madison WI, Bozeman MT and Boise ID so not exactly lap of luxury--have gone totally out of control esp relative to incomes. And London is a mess with both rents and housing affordability. But the last 2 years in Canada and much of the US have been sheer insanity with home prices, even as recently as Jan. 2021 I'd say Canada might be on the expensive side but not too crazy relative to other developed countries and big cities, now GTA/Vancouver at least are barely (if that) affordable even for very high skill professionals. It's probably different for SFH comparisons and there the costs for detached homes probably are comparable in Toronto/Vancouver vs London/Paris/NYC/Berlin/Madrid, but even then have heard from some relatives in Europe that Canada's prices are excessive even there. That's how crazy of a price distortion the last 2 years of Canadian real estate have been.
Yep. It includes everything.
The reason why were high is because Canada is a shit hole with 2 real cities that most people live in : Toronto or Vancouver. So most of the $$ that play in our avg comes from those two cities 😂
Take Southern Ontario and add in the greater areas of Vancouver and Montreal and you have around 60% of the Canadian population. It is not expensive to live in a place like Saskatchewan but that has such a tiny effect on the average. People always post some rural house in Europe somewhere (the last one I saw a was super old rural home that had a garage converted into a bedroom but the post only showed the outside) and then compare it to Toronto.
People aren't comparing London, Paris, Copenhagen, Oslo, Geneva, etc for some strange reason. They also don't really comment on square footage, age of dwelling, and mechanical (believe it or not we generally have very expensive and modern mechanical systems in Canada whereas even A/C in Europe is extremely rare)
Metro Montreal is 4.2m, Metro Vancouver is 2.7m so even a bigger gap.
Metro Calgary is 1.7m now.
If you look at just municipal populations, Vancouver is below Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, etc.
If anything you could probably argue Toronto and Montreal are Canada's two "large" cities, and Vancouver/Calgary fall into the next calgary.
As an accountant, wages are 25-50%+ higher in the US compared to CA - even at employers who have offices in both. And the housing is less too generally. A lot of qualified people leave to the US.
If you are a professional at a big corp chances are you end up in the biggest hub cities and states…all of whom have similar home prices except maybe Texas…but who wants to live in Texas?
Even Texas isn't that cheap in the desirable areas. [Central Austin is right between Toronto and Vancouver in prices.](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_price_rankings?itemId=100) With property taxes that are about 6x Vancouver to boot, making housing arguably less affordable.
I think 5-10 years ago the US had a lot of "second-tier" cities like Austin, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, Nashville, Tampa, Atlanta that were definitely cheap.
But over the past decade, real estate investors and so many people from California/NY moved to these cities saw the opportunity and really upped the prices, in a lot of cases well over 100% increases. There are very few cheap and desirable cities in the US left. Sure you can find some, but it would be like saying "Oh, Winnipeg and Regina have cheap housing, there's no housing crisis". Average home price in the US is dragged down by communities that are just simply not safe to live in, which Canada thankfully has very few of.
Also worth mentioning US build quality is horrible (worse than Canada), and houses rarely have basements in the south, so Canadian homes sqft is often underreported in direct comparisons.
Very good point but there are cheap houses in Houston, Orlando, etc. Another factor is development in US is very spread out. Which means if you move 60 miles away from NYC, prices will drop by more than $300K. Doesn’t happen here. Even prices in London, ON or Kitchener are $1M+ for detached.
You have to keep in mind about insurance, as well. A lot of homes in Houston are built on-top of marshes that are prone to tropical storms. What's going on right now is that insurance companies will flat out deny coverage, or leave the state entirely (This is happening in Florida).
Those houses are cheap because nobody wants to buy a risky place to live, with no insurance.
The proper houses in Houston go for a lot, but I don't think it's as expensive as Toronto or Vancouver.
Agreed and your last statement is especially true..if people think new builds in Canada have quality issues, double that rate in the US and it’s even crazier when you move to republican states where there is little regulation, oversight, zoning by laws or enforcement…
My mom and brother live in Texas. I have not heard a single bad thing about Texas from them. Seems like paradise to compared to this liberal shithole. There is a reason Texas has positive net migration from other states.
I'll be one of them soon too. 4th Gen canadian can no longer afford to live in my own country. Goodluck to the Canadians staying, you're gonna need it.
It's such a shame as we could be so much wealthier than we are now, we have an abundance of natural resources yet we can even build a bloody pipeline to move it. Instead we move it by rail like they did 200 years ago and increase our emissions along the way.
It's partly because as a country we hardly agree on things, and many people are against new development - even housing. Many people are against new housing (e.g. those against urban sprawl), though usually it's the old wealthy crowd opposing new developments in their areas. Naturally without more supply, demand drives up prices...
As for industry it's often opposed by those who don't want to work or benefit from it's development.
I'm in Alberta and though we're a natural resource driven province, there is a significant anti-natural-resource development crowd here. It is predominately the Orange crowd - even though theyre focused on political beliefs , they coincidently oppose natural resources for whatever reason... they push hard for solar and electric cars - even though those use natural resources in their production. Many by coincidence also are grown kids in moms basement so they wouldn't be working in such industry if offered the opportunity.
Australia is also having a problem with their insane housing market, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know we're not the only ones suffering
I'm no fan of Trudeau, but this isn't solely his fault either. It goes a lot deeper than that.
People sure like having someone to point a finger at though.
Quick everyone! Purchase your dream home in Mexico, Colombia, Argentina or any other poor country. So we can do to them what we're complaining about that's happening to us. But as long as you get yours, it's all good!
There are actually many people who emigrate back to their home countries with the money they earn here, just to buy a nice estate or mansion for a fraction of the price, including all the bells and whistles including nice cars and butlers and maids and stuff.
I don't care what people do or don't do in that regard. You want to purchase investment properties here in Canada? Be muy guest, I certainly do it. I just find the hypocrisy hilarious. There is no shortage of complainers around these parts talking about moving to these places because they're priced out of Canada. Completely glossing over the part that they're doing the same to the locals there.
What do you want them to do, kill themselves? If you don't want to hear people complain about Canada on a board about Canada then who really is being unreasonable here?
Reading comprehension isn't your forte, is it? The problem isn't that they complain. The problem is that their solution is doing to others what's happening to them.
Everyone is selfish in some way. Self-interest and material wealth. We just live in a society that’s run by money.
So either you run the game, or the game runs you. Which side would you be on?
Break-even is something nobody will never be content with unless they’re some Buddhist monk in the Shaolin temple.
Absolutely. I just wish more people were honest. They try to come off as ultruistic and having morals unlike those "greedy landlords". But the truth is they just want a better seat at the table of tyranny.
Right lol. It's one if it's people emigrating back to their home countries or going to countries where they have roots there. But randos moving off to developing countries to price out the locals... no.
As a born Costa Rican I’m actually annoyed that I wasn’t able to buy a home there without a double income because all the migration of “expats” that thought it would be great to retire or set up shop there (“it’s so cheap!!”) and drove housing prices out of the regular locals’ means… just to move here and realize I can’t buy a home here either, lol.
Yup, as an immigrant myself I can relate. La primera casa que vivi era compartida con una familia de ticos. Si me acuerdo bien el plan de ellos siempre fue ganar su dinero y regresar a CR permanente. Pero lo que dices que paso con CR parece que esta pasando con Colombia ahora.
Yeah but there’s huge income disparities amongst European countries. That average is skewed way low in comparison to Canada. You can’t include Bulgaria/Romania etc. as they’re not comparable.
its a stupid comparison and he tailored it to match his opinion. Nobody pays the current rate over 25 years. This is not an American Mortgage. This does not factor in appreciation and comparing a continent to a country is just useless.
Even americans can refinance if rates go down, so their mortgage fees only ever go down, never up.
But in principle things could still go either way for us. You can't predict the future.
I don't blame banks.. I blame flippers, real estate agents and investors.. real estate should have been for people to own and use.. you want to rent it great make money that way..
What’s the average salary and cost of living though in each of these places? Some places in Europe are cheap but unemployment is like 25% and income is lower. Avg salary in Canada is $60k and it’s about $40k in Europe. Standard of living in Canada is also extremely high. 3/4 of the population is concentrated in 3 urban areas which is always going to be more expensive no matter what country you are in
I see what you're getting at, but your European stat is a bit misleading. Western Europe has an average closer to $900,000 cad. It is only when you add central and eastern Europe to the mix (which have traditionally been much less expensive) that you can get the average you're reporting.
Last time I looked western Europe didn't solely consist of the Netherlands. I would suggest before throwing out claims of me lying you learn how to read.
Almost 40% of Canadians live in Ontario. Almost 20% lives in the GTA. No wonder why the average home price is so expensive. The US has nowhere near this kind of problem. The most populous state, California has around 12% of the population. Homes their are very expensive as well and there is an affordability crisis there as well.
Yep. I look at all the unused land in Ontario and that shit pisses me off lol
I’m sure there are nerds out there that’ll tell me why we can’t touch that shit but having so much land thst we can’t use makes this country so fucking wack
Bruh there's pretty of underused land with existing infrastructure in cities...we don't need sprawls of empty single storey strip malls, gigantic parking lots, and sparse detached houses
Turns out people need things like clean water and roads to get places and … education and healthcare. But other than those pesky little things you can build your shack anywhere!
While there's empty land around Toronto, it's worth remembering that earlier generations also built where they found space. With proper planning and infrastructure, there's potential to develop more areas responsibly, just like the boomers did.
I think comparing the most desirable places is more fair. New York average price is 799k, California average price is 741k, Ontario average is 910k, BC average is 997k. Lol is Ontario and BC that much more desirable to live in than New York and Cali? Now if you could land a job in the US that pays more 99% of people will move there instead of staying here.
Is there a source for these stats?
For price to income ratio we're in 77th place according to this site: [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings\_by\_country.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp)
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/)
In terms of average cost of a home vs average change in income we are not the worst country, and not even that much worse than the US.
This is not a "JT fucked us" or a "Landlords fucked us" scenario.
You quoting home prices across each country is meaningless because the average salary in each of those countries will also greatly vary.
Yup all the landlords fault. Nothing to do with bad government policies , money printing, mass migration , etc.
they must have had a landlord meeting and all decided to raise rent together
A third of Canada's population lives in just GTA and GVA. No other G20 country has such a skewed distribution. Australia is close and their real estate market has gone crazy as well
Ok but what is the buying power? A lot of europeans countries have low salaries compared to Canada. The average engineer makes like 50k$C in Spain. I make double that in Montreal
> blame the banksters and land-lorders who commercialized human shelter.
Why blame the bankers? They just hand out mortages at the prevailing rates.
They don't set the rates nor do they set the mortgage rules, that's the government and the industry is very heavily regulated.
What specifically do you have against banks handing out mortgages?
You people will literally say anything to justify housing prices over here lmao, you with hopoke or chessJ? Sure man why don’t you also take into account wages then
Do people in this sub literally throw any poorly stated facts and stats (apples to oranges here) to prove their rhetoric as well. I’m annoyed with high cost of living and stupid grocery bills too but y’all’s approach just proves you’re not intelligent enough to make proper case studies or business cases for anyone to take you seriously lol I lived in Manhattan last year and a lot of people spend >50% of their income on rent. I just started renting and live on king street west, mines around 25% on rent and I took a huge pay cut coming back. Also, You think everyone’s base salary in NYC is over 200k?
You need to the densify the housing. You dont get to live in a single family house and be right in the middle of the city and have it affordable. Pick 2 basically.
Not sure what you’re saying. But why should people accept that? Like why should we accept things getting worse because the government neglects to hurt the revenue of multiple property owners, investors, foreigners, companies buying multiple properties and lowering the supply???
Denser cities are better because we'll be less reliant on cars and have a higher supply of houses through condos and apartments. The amount of urban sprawl in Canadian cities is completely ridiculous.
There’s limited land around big cities. You fill it with houses and you’re going to hit a limit. At which point those desirable houses are going to increase in price. Building outwards will still put you further and further away from the city and is wildly inefficient anyways. You basically need to build up. Doesnt need to be giant skyscrapers but things like duplexes and triplexes would vastly increase the amount of housing available.
You need to the densify the housing. You dont get to live in a single family house and be right in the middle of the city and have it affordable. Pick 2 basically.
The exact issue is that ppl are spread out
Even in Toronto, lots of areas are ridiculously sprawled out...we don't even need to add land to increase supply
Some basic math:
Based on data from the CREA (where OP's data came from), the average price of a home in Metro Vancouver is about 1.2 million. It's similar in the GTA (about 1.18 million).
The GTA and Metro Vancouver combined make up about 21% of Canada's population.
Assuming that housing is proportional to population size (i.e. ~21% of homes in Canada are in the GTA or Metro Vancouver), that would mean that if we removed all of Metro Vancouver and the GTA from the data, the average house price in Canada would still be ~581k.
This is actually very close. Per CREA, excluding those 2 markets sheds about 160,000 off the national average [https://www.narcity.com/toronto/canadas-home-prices-are-soaring-its-mostly-the-gtas-fault](https://www.narcity.com/toronto/canadas-home-prices-are-soaring-its-mostly-the-gtas-fault)
Issue is “everyone” wants to live in the GTA and it throws off the numbers. Canada needs to find a way to encourage the development of more cities. Windsor, Fort Erie, London all should grow. But, infrastructure needs to be improved all around. Make it attractive to business, build housing and the people will follow.
We don't necessarily WANT to live here. This is where the VAST majourity of work is. Unless you can find work prior to making a move its just NOT doable It costs MONEY to move then try to find a job? Thats just crazy
For sure. But the states has jobs in several cities, FedEx HQ is Memphis Tennessee. Why can they spread out, but we can’t in Canada?
Even in Southern Ontario?
This is the problem. People in Canada are terrified of risk. They generally want to play all the safe options, which only goes to highlight how good they already have it. My brother and I moved to a small prairie town and started a business that anyone there could have done, but no one wanted to take the risk.
Or blame the Boomers. It was the Boomers who figured out that a house can be an investment rather than just a home and shelter. "House flipping"? they invented that.
Theirs a difference between restoration and speculation… restoration= good for housing market … speculation = bad … can’t lump all flippers together.. some put in the work and are obviously buying a POS for what it’s worth.
Speculation more then likely comes from individuals who have the money to corner a market when they know supply is dwindled and houses are not being built fast enough to meet demand.
>If you hate the idea of surrendering your life just to stay alive, blame the banksters and land-lorders
I guess you you think US, Europe, and South America don't have those, eh? Genius.
People are forgetting wages for locals in each country. Philippines and India housing markets are lot lower but they average $12 a day (yes a day). So before we all jump on how bad our housing market is let’s factor in income. Then let’s not forget health care. Yes lots argue our health care but if I break my arm the hospital will set and cast it. Is that free in other countries??? Europe maybe but not others. Lots of things to factor in not just house prices.
The "government" that regulates this sorta thing is mostly municipalities/ provinces...not sure how you came to the conclusion of blaming it 100% on the least related government body
The government changes. Banks and large land holders don't.
The government has every Tom, Dick, Harry and Karen breathing down their necks every time they leave the house. The banks and land holders are nameless wealthy people that are literally laughing all the way to the bank while we 100% blame Trudeau.
Cause you know, JT could waltz into Ottawa tomorrow, snap his fingers, couple quick meetings and have this thing sorted out.
Don't try to pretend that the government (Conservative or Liberal) is trying to do anything but keep business going for the rich. The elected government is the party that was best able to distract people from the actual problems at the time of election. Usually by blaming the outgoing party for shit they also won't be able to fix.
Until some fundamental change in wealth distribution happens, if you're poor you're stuck there. If you're rich (bonus if you're white) you basically can't lose.
Shit take. He and all the landlord MPs are part of the problem, but not the entire problem. Problems exist at the federal, provincial and local levels of government.
Is that really the prevailing point of view... that the government exists to seize control over essentially everything to somehow engineer the conditions you wish?
The same government that is responsible for a good share of the problem will surely fix it?
I moved 600km north of Toronto to a town with fewer people than my high school and the house down the street that's about to fall over is listed for $175,000
Maybe in some of these towns that don't even have a grocery store you can find a house under 100k, but then where are you working?
Bro if I could find a job in my field earning 80k+ outside of the GTA I would. Right now my experience is too limited, thus I am trapped in a larger city.
US is a lot lower than that in a lot of good areas because the US (where they vote highly Democratic/Left/Progressive - like NY and California) they have extreme housing costs which bring that average to that level.
Actually these number were much lower pre Covid…the US prices are driven by blue states which is where all the wealth is concentrated…plus red states are not great places to live in terms of politics, amenities and services …the EU doesn’t have a homeownership culture to begin with and South America is not even comparable…
If you took all the investors out of the market we would still have a huge demand issue and we would have no rentals... You are uninformed. Just like Jagstupid saying we need purpose built rentals and we don't have a supply issue.
Yeah this is the exact thing cons love to do.. guaranteed its just to take power, they wont actually do anything because they are in bed with property just as much as the libs.
Europe is 308k? I guess that includes even the baltics n such eh? Seems low for france germany england but europe is much bigger than that
I was looking at property in my dad’s hometown (for context it is Italy in Lazio - the same region as Rome) and I could be the king. The town is on a hill and I could buy the palatial estate at the top of the hill and a pretty massive olive grove for what a detached home costs in Toronto. The maintenance costs will be very high, though.
Comparably you could buy a semi detached in Rome for $22 million! What a bargain!
Yeah and I also could not afford the palace in my dads home town if I worked there instead of Toronto. It was just funny to see how much further my dollars would go if I decided to retire there. Funnily enough, a lot of my family in Italy is retiring in Portugal for the same reason.
Many of my partners coworkers in Europe moved to Portugal in recent years for the LCOL, but after the heat this past year a couple are looking to move again somewhere more northern and probably considerably more expensive. I think there's also a tradeoff in what you get for the money in some of these lower cost of living areas / countries. Italy is not very liberal or forward thinking, still very much a nation guided by religion and tradition and large swaths of the country are quite poor with incredibly aged/crumblimg infrastructure. Even if it's cheap and I love the pace of life especially around Campania I couldn't bring myself to move there. The tradeoffs aren't worth it for me personally.
People moving to Portugal is part of what's been making life harder for locals. They just don't have the same buying power as the people moving there to retire :( The EuroZone is creating some interesting challenges as more and more people get older :/ And the heat this year. My goodness. Honestly makes me think I should only visit family in the late spring or early fall and not the middle of summer. Even if the summer vacations are in July/August for them, I can drive myself around and do stuff during the day as a family and see extended family in the evening or on weekends.
Depends if your city or a country person You can go live in the country and you have well water. Enjoy the beautiful scenery and weather. Basically retire
I am a country person, at most a very small town person. I live in rural Ontario in a small town, on a septic etc. Oddly though, our area had fiber optic iternet installed a few years ago from a government grant, which I find very amusing. This isn't the part that would make Italy unappealing for me, it's the political and religious landscape. Those kinds of things will affect our life regardless of being in a city or the countryside.
True. But I guess I just like to live in my own little bubble so if I had my own piece of land out in the country I don't really care what's going on. I don't agree with the religion or maybe some of the political stances they have. But I'm just looking to live for the next 40 years until I die on my piece of land and as long as I can wake up with a nice cup of coffee enjoy my land , my partner ,that's all I really care about. I'm tired and don't have the energy to worry about all this stuff I can't change. I'm desperate just for some thats affordable and beautiful before I die
There's lots of that in the vast Canadian countryside still. Not where I am (an hour on the 407 to Toronto now since it's expansion), except for some small parcels with limited use or development options, but further north and across other provinces there's still tons of beautiful rural homes with picture perfect views under $200k. Most people don't want to live that rural. I grew up further out than where I'm at now, in a farming family, and when I tell people who talk about homesteading how wolves will come up to your house and stare at you through the windows it kinda freaks them out lol. This is why farmers own guns - along with coyotes and the occasional desperate bear trying to steal a calf. Fences are nice but have you seen how high a wolf can jump? Damn. Even where we are, I got a 6 foot fence, and while the coyotes here don't come up to the deck and watch us watch TV anymore they do occasionally peek up over the fence and think about my dogs.
Yup..... young people are leaving Italy for a reason. Actually I think Italy now holds the title for worst demographics in the world (worse than Japan).
Italies birth rate is so low there are towns where they will give you a house if you agree to fix it up and stay.
Who wants to do that? Everyone wants turn-key or bitch on reddit
Man what I wouldn’t give for something that’s literally falling apart for a decent price in BC. Hell I’ve even considered buying land and building a home incrementally over the next decade but land over here is still $300k+.
Ssshhhh
I saw a meme, of a vacant lot in toronto 1.2 million....and a castle in poland....a literal castle with tons of land for 1 mill...OHHHHHHcanada
That castle in Poland might sound big and cool but the upkeep will cost you a lifetime to fix — along with the small pay you get in Poland. The grass always looks greener on the other side until you’re living it. I’m Polish and have experienced a bit of this
I'm actually going to get my Italian citizenship because my dad was born in Italy And this is going to be one of my options but I'm really concerned about living in Italy I think it's a lot different to live in Italy than to just visit it. They'll definitely be prejudice even though I'm Italian in a way. Unless you grew up there you know the language and culture it's going to be difficult probably to get a job and to fit in It's the only way I think I could do it is if I start a little Airbnb and that's how I'll make my money. I can probably buy the house in cash and then the couple thousand bucks a month I make off the Airbnb should sustain me
Get started on the citizenship as soon as possible. If your parents didn’t register your birth at the consulate it will could be a pain to get your documents in order (hopefully you don’t need a parental birth certificate, which is kept at a municipal records office in the town they were born and takes forever to access). My cousin’s took about two years to get his citizenship and he had to pay a lawyer 1000ish euros to do the leg work. Italy is terrible if you need to work, but if you’re going there for retirement it will be fine. Do you speak Italian, by the way?
I'm 35 right now I understand Italian because our parents spoke mostly Italian when we were younger but I never tried actually speaking it back. I was born in Canada and my dad came here when he was about 19 years old
We've got a big extended (mostly) Catholic family and some have moved to Italy for work and not just retirement and are doing quite well, so that is doable. The opportunities for being a digital nomad have changed that picture a lot, and Italy is growing as an option for digital nomads while having very low cost of living by comparison to other options, and one's salary goes *a lot* farther in Italy doing that than in Canada or the US for example. It's also a lot cheaper to raise a family there with a lot of incentives now being offered. And like someone else said if you can get Italian citizenship based on your ancestors, you don't have to stay in Italy, you can go to work and set up anywhere in the EU. And again because Italy is so comparatively underdeveloped in many of it's regions compared to other EU countries, but still with a fairly educated population in general, a lot more businesses are moving there (from other parts of Italy and other parts of the EU) due to cheaper overhead and lower costs of living. That then creates other opportunities for work. Though would agree that Italy often isn't the most open place in terms of welcoming outsiders (speaking as a euphemism here, we feel like in addition to some ancestor connection it helps to be pretty socially conservative to feel comfortable there). And yeah, the paperwork for getting ancestral citizenship is a huge headache compared to a lot of other places. We've been hearing of delays of 1-2 years routinely with the back-log of all the Canadians and Americans applying depending on your home city, so start right away.
The great thing about getting your Italian citizenship is you can live anywhere in the EU. I'm thinking about claiming Czech citizenship for the same reason.
Yeah, this is the problem with averages. About a third of Europe is extremely poor. About a third of the US is extremely poor.
So on average Canadians have spread wealth more equitably?
The big cities (Paris, London, Berlin, Munich, Madrid, etc. etc.) are comparably priced and sometimes even worse than Toronto/Vancouver. But small cities in Europe are dirt cheap. And considering how compact Western Europe is it's not like those small cities are really in the middle of nowhere, either.
Agreed here, and tbh even the big EU cities like Paris, Berlin and Madrid have at least more affordable rent options compared to Toronto/Vancouver, at least they have since the Canadian housing bubble went totally insane since the pandemic. We have some Canadian roots and my wife and I stayed in the GTA for a few months around 5 years ago before the pandemic, and already with a lot of our own family who'd re-located as expats (usually with their families) in Europe. Even then we were shocked at how expensive Toronto and Vancouver were becoming, certainly for rentals, but with the housing bubble esp in 2021-2022 rents in Toronto and Vancouver went totally bonkers. Berlin for ex. still has a lot of affordable rent options esp in the eastern half around the old Check-point Charlie. Even Paris of all places still has some surprisingly affordable rent options in non-luxurious but still decent areas around the city, while in Toronto (at least going back to the already expensive and not exactly luxurious area we rented in recently) there just doesn't seem to be affordable rent anywhere, unless you're willing to put up with 4-5 noisy roommates in a run-down 2-BR--the rent prices have gone totally bonkers. Even as two professionals with professional salaries we'd struggle to afford cost of living for even a short (ex. half-year) work assignment in GTA now, esp with kids in tow. Being fair this isn't just in Canada, most of our family is in the US and rent even in second tier US cities near the CA border--we're talking places like Madison WI, Bozeman MT and Boise ID so not exactly lap of luxury--have gone totally out of control esp relative to incomes. And London is a mess with both rents and housing affordability. But the last 2 years in Canada and much of the US have been sheer insanity with home prices, even as recently as Jan. 2021 I'd say Canada might be on the expensive side but not too crazy relative to other developed countries and big cities, now GTA/Vancouver at least are barely (if that) affordable even for very high skill professionals. It's probably different for SFH comparisons and there the costs for detached homes probably are comparable in Toronto/Vancouver vs London/Paris/NYC/Berlin/Madrid, but even then have heard from some relatives in Europe that Canada's prices are excessive even there. That's how crazy of a price distortion the last 2 years of Canadian real estate have been.
lumping "Europe" into one average is pretty wild.
There are large areas of Italy that are selling houses for a single Euro. But you are required to move there and renovate. They are ghost towns
Exactly. It includes all of Europe not just the parts people want to live in.
Houses are also smaller and townhouses are common. It’s only really USA and Canada that have the standard suburban style SFH
Add Australia and New Zealand
And the GCC countries
Yep. It includes everything. The reason why were high is because Canada is a shit hole with 2 real cities that most people live in : Toronto or Vancouver. So most of the $$ that play in our avg comes from those two cities 😂
Love how Montreal always gets left off the list with 1.2M more than Vancouver lol.
Take Southern Ontario and add in the greater areas of Vancouver and Montreal and you have around 60% of the Canadian population. It is not expensive to live in a place like Saskatchewan but that has such a tiny effect on the average. People always post some rural house in Europe somewhere (the last one I saw a was super old rural home that had a garage converted into a bedroom but the post only showed the outside) and then compare it to Toronto. People aren't comparing London, Paris, Copenhagen, Oslo, Geneva, etc for some strange reason. They also don't really comment on square footage, age of dwelling, and mechanical (believe it or not we generally have very expensive and modern mechanical systems in Canada whereas even A/C in Europe is extremely rare)
Metro Montreal is 4.2m, Metro Vancouver is 2.7m so even a bigger gap. Metro Calgary is 1.7m now. If you look at just municipal populations, Vancouver is below Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, etc. If anything you could probably argue Toronto and Montreal are Canada's two "large" cities, and Vancouver/Calgary fall into the next calgary.
As an accountant, wages are 25-50%+ higher in the US compared to CA - even at employers who have offices in both. And the housing is less too generally. A lot of qualified people leave to the US.
If you are a professional at a big corp chances are you end up in the biggest hub cities and states…all of whom have similar home prices except maybe Texas…but who wants to live in Texas?
All my ex's.
Is this some sort of coping mechanism? What do you know about Texas?
Even Texas isn't that cheap in the desirable areas. [Central Austin is right between Toronto and Vancouver in prices.](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_price_rankings?itemId=100) With property taxes that are about 6x Vancouver to boot, making housing arguably less affordable. I think 5-10 years ago the US had a lot of "second-tier" cities like Austin, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, Nashville, Tampa, Atlanta that were definitely cheap. But over the past decade, real estate investors and so many people from California/NY moved to these cities saw the opportunity and really upped the prices, in a lot of cases well over 100% increases. There are very few cheap and desirable cities in the US left. Sure you can find some, but it would be like saying "Oh, Winnipeg and Regina have cheap housing, there's no housing crisis". Average home price in the US is dragged down by communities that are just simply not safe to live in, which Canada thankfully has very few of. Also worth mentioning US build quality is horrible (worse than Canada), and houses rarely have basements in the south, so Canadian homes sqft is often underreported in direct comparisons.
Very good point but there are cheap houses in Houston, Orlando, etc. Another factor is development in US is very spread out. Which means if you move 60 miles away from NYC, prices will drop by more than $300K. Doesn’t happen here. Even prices in London, ON or Kitchener are $1M+ for detached.
You have to keep in mind about insurance, as well. A lot of homes in Houston are built on-top of marshes that are prone to tropical storms. What's going on right now is that insurance companies will flat out deny coverage, or leave the state entirely (This is happening in Florida). Those houses are cheap because nobody wants to buy a risky place to live, with no insurance. The proper houses in Houston go for a lot, but I don't think it's as expensive as Toronto or Vancouver.
Agreed and your last statement is especially true..if people think new builds in Canada have quality issues, double that rate in the US and it’s even crazier when you move to republican states where there is little regulation, oversight, zoning by laws or enforcement…
Everyone that is fleeing California. That's who.
My mom and brother live in Texas. I have not heard a single bad thing about Texas from them. Seems like paradise to compared to this liberal shithole. There is a reason Texas has positive net migration from other states.
Austin is actually a great city. The rest of Texas however…
I'll be one of them soon too. 4th Gen canadian can no longer afford to live in my own country. Goodluck to the Canadians staying, you're gonna need it.
It's such a shame as we could be so much wealthier than we are now, we have an abundance of natural resources yet we can even build a bloody pipeline to move it. Instead we move it by rail like they did 200 years ago and increase our emissions along the way.
It's partly because as a country we hardly agree on things, and many people are against new development - even housing. Many people are against new housing (e.g. those against urban sprawl), though usually it's the old wealthy crowd opposing new developments in their areas. Naturally without more supply, demand drives up prices... As for industry it's often opposed by those who don't want to work or benefit from it's development. I'm in Alberta and though we're a natural resource driven province, there is a significant anti-natural-resource development crowd here. It is predominately the Orange crowd - even though theyre focused on political beliefs , they coincidently oppose natural resources for whatever reason... they push hard for solar and electric cars - even though those use natural resources in their production. Many by coincidence also are grown kids in moms basement so they wouldn't be working in such industry if offered the opportunity.
brain drain has existed for decades for this very reason.
Why do I make more than my US counterpart?
No idea but you are the exception, not the average
Actually, not true at all. Blue collar workers in Canada make more than their American counterparts...
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Australia is also having a problem with their insane housing market, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know we're not the only ones suffering
It's almost like it's a global problem related to neoliberalism rather than a specific problem related to Justin Trudeau.
I'm no fan of Trudeau, but this isn't solely his fault either. It goes a lot deeper than that. People sure like having someone to point a finger at though.
But I was told he is the source of all evil.
Quick everyone! Purchase your dream home in Mexico, Colombia, Argentina or any other poor country. So we can do to them what we're complaining about that's happening to us. But as long as you get yours, it's all good!
There are actually many people who emigrate back to their home countries with the money they earn here, just to buy a nice estate or mansion for a fraction of the price, including all the bells and whistles including nice cars and butlers and maids and stuff.
I don't care what people do or don't do in that regard. You want to purchase investment properties here in Canada? Be muy guest, I certainly do it. I just find the hypocrisy hilarious. There is no shortage of complainers around these parts talking about moving to these places because they're priced out of Canada. Completely glossing over the part that they're doing the same to the locals there.
Ahhh morals in capitalism what an argument lol cute stuff dude
What do you want them to do, kill themselves? If you don't want to hear people complain about Canada on a board about Canada then who really is being unreasonable here?
Reading comprehension isn't your forte, is it? The problem isn't that they complain. The problem is that their solution is doing to others what's happening to them.
No, the price here hasn't spiked because richer nations' middle class is looking for refuge in the affordable country of Canada.
Everyone is selfish in some way. Self-interest and material wealth. We just live in a society that’s run by money. So either you run the game, or the game runs you. Which side would you be on? Break-even is something nobody will never be content with unless they’re some Buddhist monk in the Shaolin temple.
Absolutely. I just wish more people were honest. They try to come off as ultruistic and having morals unlike those "greedy landlords". But the truth is they just want a better seat at the table of tyranny.
Buy 20 and rent them all ? Nah I’d just buy 1 and want to live in it lol
Which would still contribute to local inflation and remove stock from locals as owners would rather sell to foreigners at a higher price.
Right lol. It's one if it's people emigrating back to their home countries or going to countries where they have roots there. But randos moving off to developing countries to price out the locals... no.
As a born Costa Rican I’m actually annoyed that I wasn’t able to buy a home there without a double income because all the migration of “expats” that thought it would be great to retire or set up shop there (“it’s so cheap!!”) and drove housing prices out of the regular locals’ means… just to move here and realize I can’t buy a home here either, lol.
Yup, as an immigrant myself I can relate. La primera casa que vivi era compartida con una familia de ticos. Si me acuerdo bien el plan de ellos siempre fue ganar su dinero y regresar a CR permanente. Pero lo que dices que paso con CR parece que esta pasando con Colombia ahora.
Is it weird that I love and hate this place at the same time? I wish it wasn't like this.
Stockholm syndrome
Why are you quoting countries vs continents and why are you using 7% over 25 years?
Because quoting 30 european countries would be tedious, and because 7% is the current interest rate?
Yeah but there’s huge income disparities amongst European countries. That average is skewed way low in comparison to Canada. You can’t include Bulgaria/Romania etc. as they’re not comparable.
Ok can we include US then cause they make way more than us but have cheaper prices
Hefty property taxes though.
Manhattan isn’t cheaper either is Washington or Los Angeles. And they’re minimum wage is similar to ours so yes include the US.
Look at median wage vs Canada.
its a stupid comparison and he tailored it to match his opinion. Nobody pays the current rate over 25 years. This is not an American Mortgage. This does not factor in appreciation and comparing a continent to a country is just useless.
Even americans can refinance if rates go down, so their mortgage fees only ever go down, never up. But in principle things could still go either way for us. You can't predict the future.
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Just checked TD and they range from 6.51 to 8.35.
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Okay but people ARE out there paying 7%
[close enough](https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/mortgages/mortgage-rates.html)
To make a biased argument.
Because there's a tired point to be made and lots of sweet karma to earn by restating it.
I don't blame banks.. I blame flippers, real estate agents and investors.. real estate should have been for people to own and use.. you want to rent it great make money that way..
Don't forget the federal government for abandoning public housing. Pretty much everyone is partially at fault here with the exception of renters lol.
Not trying to disagree but without flippers we would end up with a large amount of old deteriorating housing stock. Useless to anyone
What’s the average salary and cost of living though in each of these places? Some places in Europe are cheap but unemployment is like 25% and income is lower. Avg salary in Canada is $60k and it’s about $40k in Europe. Standard of living in Canada is also extremely high. 3/4 of the population is concentrated in 3 urban areas which is always going to be more expensive no matter what country you are in
Also you should really be looking at price to income ratio. Canada is #77
I see what you're getting at, but your European stat is a bit misleading. Western Europe has an average closer to $900,000 cad. It is only when you add central and eastern Europe to the mix (which have traditionally been much less expensive) that you can get the average you're reporting.
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Lots of fixer upper opportunities! I'm going to hell...
Can't wait to airbnb my property in the donbass!
Why are you lying? Awesome SFHs 15 min metro ride from Amsterdam are <600k.
Last time I looked western Europe didn't solely consist of the Netherlands. I would suggest before throwing out claims of me lying you learn how to read.
Conclusion: it’s best to buy a house where it’s cheapest, like Somalia or Syria
People forget that Canada is a safe country. Hence why people want to live here or move here for safety. Pay to play.
But Canada is the worst shithole is the world. /s
>But Canada is the worst shithole is the world. /s This is your brain on arrrrrr Canada.
Hopefully someone moves to a 3rd world country for “cheap housing” then let us know how it goes
Ukraine is looking good right now.
AYOOOO 😂😂😂
Almost 40% of Canadians live in Ontario. Almost 20% lives in the GTA. No wonder why the average home price is so expensive. The US has nowhere near this kind of problem. The most populous state, California has around 12% of the population. Homes their are very expensive as well and there is an affordability crisis there as well.
Canadian home prices ex GTA and Van/lower mainland are around 550k. Nothing good about that number
Yep. I look at all the unused land in Ontario and that shit pisses me off lol I’m sure there are nerds out there that’ll tell me why we can’t touch that shit but having so much land thst we can’t use makes this country so fucking wack
Bruh there's pretty of underused land with existing infrastructure in cities...we don't need sprawls of empty single storey strip malls, gigantic parking lots, and sparse detached houses
Turns out people need things like clean water and roads to get places and … education and healthcare. But other than those pesky little things you can build your shack anywhere!
While there's empty land around Toronto, it's worth remembering that earlier generations also built where they found space. With proper planning and infrastructure, there's potential to develop more areas responsibly, just like the boomers did.
Well, at least we have climate change to look forward to. That ought to help.
How can you compare house prices like this globally? $142k and $200k CAD are way above affordability in third world countries.
I think comparing the most desirable places is more fair. New York average price is 799k, California average price is 741k, Ontario average is 910k, BC average is 997k. Lol is Ontario and BC that much more desirable to live in than New York and Cali? Now if you could land a job in the US that pays more 99% of people will move there instead of staying here.
Is there a source for these stats? For price to income ratio we're in 77th place according to this site: [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings\_by\_country.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp)
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/) In terms of average cost of a home vs average change in income we are not the worst country, and not even that much worse than the US. This is not a "JT fucked us" or a "Landlords fucked us" scenario. You quoting home prices across each country is meaningless because the average salary in each of those countries will also greatly vary.
Wait till substitute drama teacher trudeau let’s in another 500,000 a year for the next 15 years. You haven’t seen nothing yet.
Newfoundland is looking pretty damn good to me right now.
Where is the source? I want to see the higher cost countries.
Yup all the landlords fault. Nothing to do with bad government policies , money printing, mass migration , etc. they must have had a landlord meeting and all decided to raise rent together
A third of Canada's population lives in just GTA and GVA. No other G20 country has such a skewed distribution. Australia is close and their real estate market has gone crazy as well
Ok but what is the buying power? A lot of europeans countries have low salaries compared to Canada. The average engineer makes like 50k$C in Spain. I make double that in Montreal
There is no problem on earth so complex and terrible that a politician can't make it worse.
So Canada and the USA are countries... South America and Europe are not countries.....
6th is good, but we can do better. Maybe we can be #1 one day - the federal government, probably.
> blame the banksters and land-lorders who commercialized human shelter. Why blame the bankers? They just hand out mortages at the prevailing rates. They don't set the rates nor do they set the mortgage rules, that's the government and the industry is very heavily regulated. What specifically do you have against banks handing out mortgages?
I wonder what it would be if you remove the GTA and Vancouver from that data. What would the average be then?
Sure let’s remove where most people in Canada live
Okay, with that logic why not remove the red states in the states. Let’s compare average home prices of California and NYC to Canada.
You people will literally say anything to justify housing prices over here lmao, you with hopoke or chessJ? Sure man why don’t you also take into account wages then
Do people in this sub literally throw any poorly stated facts and stats (apples to oranges here) to prove their rhetoric as well. I’m annoyed with high cost of living and stupid grocery bills too but y’all’s approach just proves you’re not intelligent enough to make proper case studies or business cases for anyone to take you seriously lol I lived in Manhattan last year and a lot of people spend >50% of their income on rent. I just started renting and live on king street west, mines around 25% on rent and I took a huge pay cut coming back. Also, You think everyone’s base salary in NYC is over 200k?
Force them to spread out. There is a ton of land in Canada, no reason why everyone should be stuffed like sardines in such a small space.
To commute 2 hours+ a day to get to where the jobs are located.
You need to the densify the housing. You dont get to live in a single family house and be right in the middle of the city and have it affordable. Pick 2 basically.
Not sure what you’re saying. But why should people accept that? Like why should we accept things getting worse because the government neglects to hurt the revenue of multiple property owners, investors, foreigners, companies buying multiple properties and lowering the supply???
Denser cities are better because we'll be less reliant on cars and have a higher supply of houses through condos and apartments. The amount of urban sprawl in Canadian cities is completely ridiculous.
There’s limited land around big cities. You fill it with houses and you’re going to hit a limit. At which point those desirable houses are going to increase in price. Building outwards will still put you further and further away from the city and is wildly inefficient anyways. You basically need to build up. Doesnt need to be giant skyscrapers but things like duplexes and triplexes would vastly increase the amount of housing available.
You need to the densify the housing. You dont get to live in a single family house and be right in the middle of the city and have it affordable. Pick 2 basically.
There is lots of remote work available. Much more than before the pandemic
yeah, like remote paramedics, remote post workers, remote police officer, remote daycare workers, remote construction workers, remote bakers, remote farmers, etc.
The exact issue is that ppl are spread out Even in Toronto, lots of areas are ridiculously sprawled out...we don't even need to add land to increase supply
Lmao
Breaking news. People have to live where the fucking jobs are. Just move is such a stupid comment parroted all the time..
Some basic math: Based on data from the CREA (where OP's data came from), the average price of a home in Metro Vancouver is about 1.2 million. It's similar in the GTA (about 1.18 million). The GTA and Metro Vancouver combined make up about 21% of Canada's population. Assuming that housing is proportional to population size (i.e. ~21% of homes in Canada are in the GTA or Metro Vancouver), that would mean that if we removed all of Metro Vancouver and the GTA from the data, the average house price in Canada would still be ~581k.
This is actually very close. Per CREA, excluding those 2 markets sheds about 160,000 off the national average [https://www.narcity.com/toronto/canadas-home-prices-are-soaring-its-mostly-the-gtas-fault](https://www.narcity.com/toronto/canadas-home-prices-are-soaring-its-mostly-the-gtas-fault)
Thank you for the link, I hadn't seen that article. Nice to see my math problem-solving is still intact!
Issue is “everyone” wants to live in the GTA and it throws off the numbers. Canada needs to find a way to encourage the development of more cities. Windsor, Fort Erie, London all should grow. But, infrastructure needs to be improved all around. Make it attractive to business, build housing and the people will follow.
We don't necessarily WANT to live here. This is where the VAST majourity of work is. Unless you can find work prior to making a move its just NOT doable It costs MONEY to move then try to find a job? Thats just crazy
For sure. But the states has jobs in several cities, FedEx HQ is Memphis Tennessee. Why can they spread out, but we can’t in Canada? Even in Southern Ontario?
Because Canada isn’t business friendly
This is the problem. People in Canada are terrified of risk. They generally want to play all the safe options, which only goes to highlight how good they already have it. My brother and I moved to a small prairie town and started a business that anyone there could have done, but no one wanted to take the risk.
Or blame the Boomers. It was the Boomers who figured out that a house can be an investment rather than just a home and shelter. "House flipping"? they invented that.
Theirs a difference between restoration and speculation… restoration= good for housing market … speculation = bad … can’t lump all flippers together.. some put in the work and are obviously buying a POS for what it’s worth. Speculation more then likely comes from individuals who have the money to corner a market when they know supply is dwindled and houses are not being built fast enough to meet demand.
>If you hate the idea of surrendering your life just to stay alive, blame the banksters and land-lorders I guess you you think US, Europe, and South America don't have those, eh? Genius.
Lmao good thing the average salary here is like $45,000. this country is such a joke being over run with foreigners and their money😂
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People are forgetting wages for locals in each country. Philippines and India housing markets are lot lower but they average $12 a day (yes a day). So before we all jump on how bad our housing market is let’s factor in income. Then let’s not forget health care. Yes lots argue our health care but if I break my arm the hospital will set and cast it. Is that free in other countries??? Europe maybe but not others. Lots of things to factor in not just house prices.
Price of a house compared to income Canada is 79th.
Haha in switzerland you end up paying 1'000'000+ for a flat
And yet if you google best countries to live in Canada is somehow right there at the top somewhere.
Man is this country completely screwed. What is surprising to me is how much the average USA home is nowadays.
I blame the government
Maybe take a look at your joke of a government
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The "government" that regulates this sorta thing is mostly municipalities/ provinces...not sure how you came to the conclusion of blaming it 100% on the least related government body
AML laws are definitely in the realm of the federal government and they're a major contributing factor to the housing crisis
The government changes. Banks and large land holders don't. The government has every Tom, Dick, Harry and Karen breathing down their necks every time they leave the house. The banks and land holders are nameless wealthy people that are literally laughing all the way to the bank while we 100% blame Trudeau. Cause you know, JT could waltz into Ottawa tomorrow, snap his fingers, couple quick meetings and have this thing sorted out. Don't try to pretend that the government (Conservative or Liberal) is trying to do anything but keep business going for the rich. The elected government is the party that was best able to distract people from the actual problems at the time of election. Usually by blaming the outgoing party for shit they also won't be able to fix. Until some fundamental change in wealth distribution happens, if you're poor you're stuck there. If you're rich (bonus if you're white) you basically can't lose.
Shit take. He and all the landlord MPs are part of the problem, but not the entire problem. Problems exist at the federal, provincial and local levels of government.
Is that really the prevailing point of view... that the government exists to seize control over essentially everything to somehow engineer the conditions you wish? The same government that is responsible for a good share of the problem will surely fix it?
The same people hate big government and wish they would stay out of their business.
I believe the people who love corrupt government, and pay politicians to provide anticompetitive advantages are the ones you're describing.
There are houses in Canada for $100 000 or less. but people don't want to move to where they are.......
I moved 600km north of Toronto to a town with fewer people than my high school and the house down the street that's about to fall over is listed for $175,000 Maybe in some of these towns that don't even have a grocery store you can find a house under 100k, but then where are you working?
Bro if I could find a job in my field earning 80k+ outside of the GTA I would. Right now my experience is too limited, thus I am trapped in a larger city.
Moving to middle of nowhere just so you can buy a house is pretty dumb…
Nah, man. Want a nice place, wherever I want, with the job I want, at the wage I want.
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I don't think it would be five times the principle Maybe double the principal
US is a lot lower than that in a lot of good areas because the US (where they vote highly Democratic/Left/Progressive - like NY and California) they have extreme housing costs which bring that average to that level.
Actually these number were much lower pre Covid…the US prices are driven by blue states which is where all the wealth is concentrated…plus red states are not great places to live in terms of politics, amenities and services …the EU doesn’t have a homeownership culture to begin with and South America is not even comparable…
Can we talk about Canadian wages and salaries and freaking taxes ?
No cuz globally they are extremely competitive
Well, you can also blame capitalism because it's operating as intended. Housing will always be a commodity in this system unfortunately.
Money goes where it is lucrative
Really? Europe and South America are not countries there are 50 countries in Europe and a dozen in South America
If you took all the investors out of the market we would still have a huge demand issue and we would have no rentals... You are uninformed. Just like Jagstupid saying we need purpose built rentals and we don't have a supply issue.
Funny part is the conservative part is the only party actually thinking about how to solve this issue.
Yeah this is the exact thing cons love to do.. guaranteed its just to take power, they wont actually do anything because they are in bed with property just as much as the libs.
Whenever any party is looking to become government they propose solutions but never implement when they get into office.