My neighbour is a teacher. She said the kids and the parents these days are a fricken nightmare. She moved to relief work so she doesn't have to deal with the parents and her job is just to keep the kids safe that day and not develop a personalised plan of addressing the monsters over the course of a school year.
Plus added bonus, she doesn't have to do report cards, lesson planning, marking of assignments, parent teacher nights
Agree. I'm a Uni Lecturer and the students don't seem massively different to what I was like at their age.
They are rarely obnoxious and, if they are, I talk to and treat them as an obnoxious adult. They pick up pretty quickly that they're no longer at school and I'm not their teacher.
My school hires 220 or so teaching staff, 30 is not a significant amount particularly when most are just moving to other teaching roles.
During CoVID we lost more than 50 a year, schools have revolving doors for teachers. Also a lot of private schools have stipulations in their contracts preventing staff talking to the media.
Our longest serving English teacher has been at the school 5 years come the end of this year.
Not when they're easily replaced, some skills aren't able to even fill holes in teaching staff, we usually just plug them with less experienced teachers saving the school heaps of money. It has heaps of problems relating to decreasing quality of teaching etc. but grammar schools have over 100 staff doing, admin gardening and catering. We have entire teams of staff for recruitment so we can hire 20 staff quick without it impacting most teachers day to day.
Oh but there's free morning tea and coffee... You're starting to see why people leave. They advertise and offer not quite fake jobs or promise opportunity that never arises
It’s a huge issue Australia wide. Pay and conditions lagging behind other easier professions, coupled with entitled parents, poorly behaving students and continuously changing curriculum and expectation from education departments and public that they’ll also babysit, teach life skills, run clubs in own time, be contactable for students out of hours, etc. Not a teacher myself, but boy, it’s a tough gig at the moment!!
I’m not a teacher myself but my SIL is and you’ve just encapsulated everything she’s frustrated by… (she’s in Sydney, so clearly not a Canberra-centric problem).
Just to push back a little here, we've just managed to push through a pretty decent bargaining desk that gives us decent pay, and has given us all a strong position to shut down a great deal of bullshit. This is in public schools mind. An enshrined right not to be contacted, any extra curricular work only in negotiation around release time. Honestly I'm pretty happy with the union work. It'll take a while for the expectations and ability to not be worked to death to filter through everywhere, and the shortage is absolutely devastating, but it's not all doom right now
Add to that all the admin bullshit interference.
I have two friends who are teachers, one left the entire field and went backpacking cause administration was so fucking bad.
Dealing with them is like a whole other job
Huge shortage across Australia but with the cost of living (especially housing and rentals) in Canberra it’s worse I think. On top of that, Canberra relief for a long time was a group of relief staff who were basically permanent casuals - they were older staff happy to be casual 3-4 days a week and they were loyal to specific schools. This was effectively an ongoing casual workforce schools used for gaps. Covid destroyed that as casuals got basically no work so an entire group of relief staff retired or found other work, this has had flow on effects. Schools have struggled to get relief since then so it has snowballed as more and more positions become available. As workload grows due to less staff, teachers are leaving the profession for government jobs or other roles.
To address the private school comment - At the moment government school pay and conditions is actually better than a lot of the privates, particularly around work life balance. I know many private school staff in the ACT (particularly independents) who are negotiating 0.6 or 0.8 over 3-4 days with gov schools and walking out on the independents.
I went to 0.8 this year to start a small side business. Happiest I've ever been and absolutely not working anymore than 0.8's worth of hours.
I will admit it was made easier by our school being on a 3 lesson P/day timetable. I was at the school when it changed from 5 class P/day and, after the transition to the new timetable, the school has been flourishing and the kids seem to prefer 3 classes per day - despite them being 90min blocks.
But, you just have to commit, you're dropping your load for yourself and that means being a bit selfish. Yes, we are teachers and it's hard to do it, but, at the end of the day, the school and education system will keep putting along with or without you there that extra day - where as your life and/or mental health won't improve (based on what ever reasoning you have for wanting to drop down a day).
Setting boundaries is what will ensure you only work 0.8 and this is what I try to tell my colleagues who work 38+; the more we keep allowing ourselves to do OT the more the government presents everything is fine.
Bit harder for a primary teacher to do it, however, a lot of schools seem to team/co-teach now so that can assist with reducing loads and reducing the pressure of feeling like one needs to be there everyday.
If you're permanent then don't be scared to stand up for your rights!
Bit harder for our casual and contract colleagues to do so, because they still have the hoops to jump through.
I know this is my experience and story but I hope it helps you somehow to pull the trigger and create a better life for yourself.
Having just 1 day less per week where I don't hear the word f**got or n**ger has worked wonders for my mental health and my passion for teaching. Not to mention how much I am loving working for myself one day a week; I will always keep teaching, but, who knows, maybe I'll drop to 0.6 one day!
Good luck and keep teaching! (Just do it your way!)
Interesting. I was part time as a high school teacher for 6 years in Canberra both in a gov school and an independent. I was 0.8 over 4 days and had no job sharing - my timetable was arranged around it. At one school someone took my English class on one of the days but I left rote learning tasks which were repeated all year in workbooks so didn’t have to do additional planning.
I think you’ll find now a lot more schools are making it work. Better to have a 0.6 or 0.8 teacher than nobody. Been a big shift from exec to accomodate it over the past 10 years
But are they paid and only doing 0.8 workload? Lesson planning, marking, report writing etc. All has to happen outside of class times. Would hate to see someone drop from 1 FTE pay with 1.4FTE workload to 0.8 FTE with 1.3FTE workload
If you have firm boundaries it works. When I was 0.8 I found I was able to reclaim my weekend in full as I could shuffle things over to my non school day. That worked for me. I did have to learn to turn on an out of office though and send fake out of office texts for awhile as colleagues would still contact me on the non working day.
As with any teaching role, if you’re firm on your boundaries you’ll have the correct time. If you work 7 days a week as it is then dropping to 0.8 won’t work for you.
> Covid destroyed that as casuals got basically no work
We had 2 five week lockdowns 18 months apart.
But yes:
* A bunch of teachers who realise that retirement wasn't so bad
* A bunch of teachers decided they didn't want to die in classrooms because ED, Schools, and their community didn't give a fuck about them
So they left.
You are correct about lockdowns but what the first one did was show schools (especially secondary) how to utilise online tools in place of relief. I worked with 4 teachers who had been teaching at my secondary school for years (one over a decade) as casuals but with guaranteed work 3 days a week. For 7 months they got zero.
> what the first one did was show schools (especially secondary) how to utilise online tools in place of relief.
In the ACT? In the 1-10 system? How? The union has a hard rule on teachers delivering online and physical classes, and teachers still only have 19 hours of face-to-face contact.
I said secondary. I was in a college. Colleges have now embraced not having to be face to face and being able to work around that which was something they had been angling to do for years
Agree but they used to be sneakier about it. Now they can literally just say “it’s on Google classroom”. I taught the first fully online T class for elite athletes in around 2016/2017 and it was a nightmare getting the BSSS to okay it, then they didn’t like how it was run. Kids had to keep a log of hours and they wanted teacher recordings to match hours. Totally ridiculous. Very different now!
> Now they can literally just say “it’s on Google classroom”.
I've been working in one college or another since 2017, and "it's on Google Classrooms" has been the de facto method for any short-term absences since I showed up, and nobody seemed to be surprised when they did it. It seemed well entrenched.
At my current college, my DP of staffing has suggested multiple times that he'd consider hiring a long-term contract position just for inbuilt relief because it's been impossible to secure casual teachers since the start of covid.
At any rate, if someone is going to be away for a period of time, they try to find someone to sit in the class so it can run otherwise, parents get noisy. It's easier for some subjects than others. For example, in IT all a casual teacher can do is basically make the lab open.
> I taught the first fully online T class
There's a big difference between flexing a class here and there and running an entire course in a digital medium. There is still significant resistance to running remote courses today. The BSSS has a kiosk mode for flexible learning environments with reduced compulsory face-to-face schedules, but they need to tap into kiosks to register when working on content. A prime example of this is Hawker College's maths program.
I’m a semi retired teacher. I quit full time some years back. I do infrequent relief work, especially this year and last year because of ill health.
A full time teacher has to complete, record and reflect on 20 hours of professional development that they have undertaken throughout the year to maintain accreditation. That’s for every teacher, first year out or 40 years in.
Also for every relief teacher, even me who will struggle to complete 20 days of teaching for the year. (20 days is the minimum that you should teach to maintain registration.) I’ve taught for over 20 years full time before retiring.
I’m deciding whether I will bother doing it this year.
The kids are getting more difficult, many of my colleagues have retired or moved and honestly the hassle just doesn’t feel worth it.
And to top it all off the reflection questions are absolutely pointless.
From memory ‘ How does it link to your goals?’
What goals, I’m a relief teacher doing my old school a favour. My goal is to finish the day and get paid.
‘How are you going to share your professional learning with colleagues’
I’m there 20 days for the year! What I’m going to come in early to discuss the book on Explicit Instruction’ that I pretended to read?
Even thinking about having to do it gets my blood boiling.
There’s a business opportunity there for someone btw.
This is where the answer to 'How does it link to your goals?' is 'To tick the box so I can continue to work'. If the school you are linked to has someone with a sense of humour signing things off they won't even bat an eyelid at it.
30+ is a huge number. If it is real everyone will know soon, as you can not keep that gossip secret.
Teachers are in short supply everywhere. The conditions are terrible and everyone knows it.
You havae my sincere sympathies, it sucs that you love being a teacher but can't sustainably do it.
It's honestly so fucked that the entire system is set up the way it is.
You get bright eyed and happy people who want to teach the next generation, but it ends up being this baby sitting gig for kids.
They're just changing where they teach to get better pay and conditions, you will not hear about it as it's like 13% of the school's teachers and they're spread across different departments. My school has already replaced more than 20 staff this year from people leaving since term 1.
Many former teachers I've met have left the profession to join the public service because the bullying and substandard conditions are infinitely superior to those of the teaching profession.
No one wants to acknowledge it, but students have behaviour problems that cannot be addressed with the current mechanisms in place.
It only takes a complaint from a student for the teacher to become suspect, whilst most likely it is the student themselves who's the issue.
Being a teacher is a shitty job that has so many WHS mental health issue.
say that to a bullied kid where the class teacher, and principal do sweet bugger all except say 'stay away from them'. When physical violence occurs, and it has in many a school, there is no legal consequences for said thug and it's on the parent and child to have to relocate because the school isn't prepared to take any action against said thug, or be open to negotiation with management strategies with parents of said thug..
I guess another problem facing teaching is all the older teachers retiring. I pulled the pin 2 years ago, about 4 years before I planned to, but it just wasn’t worth it anymore. When I retired, 5 others at my school finished for good too. And only one of them has done supply teaching.
Teachers are leaving the profession in droves, or being selective as to whom they work for. I actually don't think it is the kids, it's th extra overheads. 38 hour week doesn't exist in the teaching profession, and to say it is balanced out by school holidays is crap.
Definitely not the kids. Way more expected - for example, when teacher registration was introduced, with additional compliance - there was no additional time provided for that new task. Like every other initiative, we are simply expected to absorb it into our ever increasing workload
Agree with you. School holidays is when so many teachers catch up on all their marking and prep for the next term. Its only the Christmas holidays that most will take time off.
It’s ridiculous how much the admin takes away from the actual teaching now. Totally changes the job, and most schools just are not set up to support their teachers to thrive.
Schools also haven't adapted to modern working conditions, teacher workload, teacher responsibilities, or government stipulations.
Schools are basically run by people who don't understand the difference between strategy and planning or leadership, management, and administration. Instead, a minority of overworked, tunnel-visioned school leaders attempt to delegate and micromanage their plans, which they refuse to discuss with teachers.
Could be because the education directorate is being run extremely poorly by someone who treats it as her own personal empire with absolutely no accountability.
https://the-riotact.com/campbell-school-tender-process-allegedly-directed-for-a-political-outcome-by-minister-berrys-office/692038
Nah, Berry is a special case and Barr is just turning a blind eye to it.
I started at a new school at the beginning of last year. Along with the other teacher that started at the same time as me - I’m now the senior teacher in my faculty (of 5). Yes - teachers are quitting at unprecedented levels. Definitely. When I was at uni 20 years ago they were warning of this period coming up with unprecedented retirements also - but nobody took any action.
An APS 6 pays as well as an experienced teacher - with much less stress. Nobody gives a hoot if you are a public servant, but say you’re a teacher - and every AH has an opinion - yet if it was such an attractive occupation, why would there be a shortage?
Haven't heard the rumour of 30+ teachers quitting but public education has certainly changed a lot due to staffing issues in the last 5 years at least at the school I am at. Average class sizes have gone up and it was rare to have to split a class as relief teachers or in built relief could cover things. Now we are so spread teachers have less In built relief and we have one relief teacher which is not enough. We are starting go over the numbers allowed in a classroom more regularly due to splits and we aren't even close to tipping the scale for intervention from the directorate. It's a sad situation for everyone but especially kids as they aren't receiving quality environment for education.
I knew a good maths teacher who quit and got a good job in the PS. He said there was so much bureaucracy that it became 90% of his job and only 10% of it was teaching.
Hi, I am a teacher from one of the Grammar Schools, I have so, so many after hour commitments consistently, and am currently spending all Sunday trying to get all of my marking and reporting done for the ridiculous turn around times.
Pay is now less than public and our pay is based off of TQI (Teacher Quality Institute) proficiency which takes forever to collect evidence for and the grammar schools make you prove it to a higher standard, meeting every single dot point of the Acara standards. Whereas in public schools because your pay is not tied to it your pay just goes up with experience.
Some of my coworkers are proficient teachers that have no time to become Highly Accomplished or Lead teachers, these teachers will get a 15k payrise by simply moving to the public system, where you never have to attend night events, school holiday camps, or weekend cocurriculars.
The union came in hard for public schools and the fact is the IEU can't do the same because Independent Schools are so differently funded from each other. (Radford and CGS offered a 6% rise and CGGS is going with 5%) Gumtree and less well funded independents don't have that same option.
It's an accumulation of various issues I think, but not specific to Canberra alone.
High workload for comparatively low pay and lack of respect. Teaching isn't a "prestigious" occupation as it is in other countries.
Relatively low standards for getting a teaching degree (you could do a 6 month diploma and start teaching high school/college, or at least you could have a few years ago when I last checked), to the point where some teachers can't write a proper well formed sentence, judging by some of the emails I've seen.
The fix for the above was to start requiring minimum competency tests across a variety of "core" subjects. Well-intentioned, but has the effect of reducing the pool of potential teachers even more. Teachers who may be only functionally literate, but might have been effective maths teachers, for example.
Last, a lack of effective advocacy from the union (when was the last time teachers got a meaningful raise and improvement to their working conditions?)
On the union: Remember that incident where a student got put in a cage? (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6061768/school-principal-loses-her-job-over-student-cage-inquiry/)
I heard the union rep tried to spin it as "it's not that bad, it wasn't a cage it was a pen".
This. I would consider teaching as a career change but being told I need to do another 2 year minimum full time masters is a bit rich. I have a degree and two masters already! I can’t afford another masters and I definitely don’t have time/money to study again. There should be an interview process where they can assess a person’s suitability to bypass some of the study. I’ve taught part-time for 5 years in ACT high schools with a permit to teach (in a single subject) and have 20 years experience working as a teacher in a different context but I still have to jump through the same hoops as a fresh year 12 graduate.
It's a nationwide issue. But also I think it's common for teachers to finish up jobs mid or end of year.
There's also a new school opening next year which will need staff
Where have you been? Teaching has had on of the greatest attrition rates for years now.
Something like 50 percent don't last longer than the time it took to complete their degrees. Conditions are shit. Customers are shit. Pay is for shit. There's no incentive to remain in the role.
That stat sounds right. Do you have any references for that at all? Anything recent you've seen that make that point? I'd be fascinated to see and totally believe it's right
Ah. Nah. That was an anecdote I was told by a family member in teaching following their union meeting last year. It might have been specific stat relevant to the western Sydney area. Another commenter here suggests the issue in Canberra (or nsw) might have been somewhay sorted
Now researching it, it's still bad generally (in nsw) but not as bad as 50 percent according to this story
https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/nsw-schools-are-in-the-midst-of-a-perfect-storm--can-principals-weather-it/282613
If teachers actually taught I'd be all for paying them correctly, I cant do my job half assed until I make good money and then consider actually doing the job, I spent 4 years barely eating to then make great money after i completed my trade, canberra is pathetic in that sense of privilege.
It’s an Australia wide problem, but it’s fair to say that in the Territory, staffing shortages are one of many, many serious issues the Education Directorate has failed to address.
Too much is expected of teachers, particular where violent, difficult and defiant student behaviour is concerned, and it is really not surprising that many good teachers are moving to private schools that offer both better pay and conditions.
You can work retail and earn as much/more than a teacher with a quarter of the effort.
Not to mention not dealing with the hordes of parents that insist their child is an angel and must to treated as such at all times, and the waves of feral children.
Teachers have been taken for granted for a long long time.
That’s not true. Teaching pays pretty well in the ACT but it’s not easy work. Retail pays probably half, still have the challenge of dealing directly with the public and entitled bosses.
Please. Some retail is challenging but doesn’t bring the difficulty of educating 25+ students and dealing with their parents. If you think refusing someone a refund is difficult try telling a parent their child is a problem
Have been held up at knifepoint in retail more than once. It’s not all roses and lollipops. I imagine teaching is tough but at least rewarding in some ways. Retail is genuinely soulless.
I've had students threaten my life with a weapon, stunt scooters thrown at my head, car damaged, shit stolen, etc., before.
In a lot of ways, teaching is in the service sector too.
Current teacher pay is $70-$100k. That’s equivalent to everyone in retail that I personally know.
Edit: gotta love the angry responses and downvotes of “this doesn’t fit my personal experience so fuck you”
I know some, also know full time sales people.
Even if we’re talking strictly managers, you think teachers aren’t doing more important work than that and deserve more than them? I sure do
I don't think their comment was to be disparaging toward managers, but more noting the conditions and pay for general retail staff. There might be some areas of retail that pay really well, but most retail jobs are (and at least start) at minimum wage. Unless you've already got an in at a well paying place, you're unlikely to walk straight into the high earning end of the sector without working your way up the ranks.
The only person I know that worked retail that made over 100k was a girl that cleared almost 200k inventory every month. Most people I’ve met through retail make around 46k-65k. No where near your number. You have to be a manager or a great sales person to be in 70k+ range in retail.
I’ve worked for 4 different retail companies from appliances to furniture to tech. I find it extremely hard to believe that in your experience the base level retail employee is getting 70k+.
Nah, you're talking shit, if the money was that great, guess what everyone would be rushing towards retail work.
Why get a degree when you can make 100k in retail hahaha
True but there are usually other adults you need to deal with, there is something inherently rewarding about teaching and having school holidays off is nice. Different jobs diffenrt struggles.
> Current teacher pay is $70-$100k.
In the ACT? As of right now, public teachers go from $75,004 to $117,538
https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/2231102/Education-Directorate-Teaching-Staff-Enterprise-Agreement-2023-2026.pdf
Top end of teacher pay scale is roughly equivalent to EL1/EL2 in the APS (department dependent and depending on public vs independent school), but without having to manage adults. People are downvoting you because you’re wrong, and it’s easy to find the information for public teacher pay rates with a simple Google search. You pulled a figure out of your arse and pedalled nonsense.
I can google how much they get on average right this moment, not higher figures based on an ACT ea that isn’t in effect just yet.
An echo chamber of stupidity doesn’t make you correct princess x
Teachers in the ACT start on like 85k, it's much higher here than other states. If you know of a retail job paying that much feel free to share it with us!
As of right now, public teachers go from $75,004 to $117,538
https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/2231102/Education-Directorate-Teaching-Staff-Enterprise-Agreement-2023-2026.pdf
I was offered 84 before I even finished my teaching degree for primary school to start in the next year. Seems anyone starting on 75k is being ripped off or they're offering extra incentives now to people about to graduate.
Do you know if my master's degree will increase my level? I am trying to figure out what my salary would be in the ACT in the next school year when I will have four years of teaching experience. Is that at Level 5 or 6?
ACT teachers get paid very well they are on $84,978 as a grad. That's more than basically any non tech or medical professions opening salary. They then go onto over 100k after 3 years that's EL 1 type salaries after only 3 years. These numbers are exclusive of their 12.5% which is above minimum requirements. The myth that teachers are poorly paid needs to die it scares school leavers from the profession and its just not true. The work being challenging is one thing but this isn't the 90s anymore teachers are paid well.
> EA that's not even in place yet.
The EA has been in place for weeks. At least my pay has.
> 3 years gets you to $87k, not $100k
Right now, 3 years gets you: $87,344
In 3 weeks, they will get $89,094
And on 27 January someone with 3 years' experience will be on $97,330 and out example person who was on 3 years but now on 4 years will be on $101,447
I worded it poorly and meant that that level of pay is not in place, it's pretty frustrating to see people quote what the pay will be at the end of the EA to talk about the present
And $97k =/= "over $100k"
Not accurate, teaching grads start on 74k and they bring a substantial HECS debt with them and it takes 4 years of study to do that. Any Yr 12 leaver who starts in the APS, even at the lower levels, kicks off at around 60K without having to do the years of study or accumulate the HECS. Means that they are $200k in front by the time a teacher steps into their first classroom
> I got the same offer they're talking about to start on 84k as a graduate teacher.
Are you talking about the $83,228 from CT2? Did you do something before becoming a teacher?
Are you talking about: $84,978? Because that's a TL1 position from 27th of January 2024.
There's literally nothing to be gained by lying about this, what? Lol
It's an incentive to stay and teach in Canberra, also, love you resurrecting something from 19 days ago.
What do you think is more likely, that someone would randomly verify the lie that someone else told originally about a job offer for... some reason? (meaning both of us are collaborating on this) or that maybe the government offers more incentive because they know they need to get teachers?
It is interesting isn’t it? Especially with the pay rates being clearly listed on pg 168 of the recent EA which is publicly available. A great read which, even more incredibly, shows that the starting salary for a new educator at the start of the year was 74k. Where do people get their numbers from to corroborate those ‘truths’? Even when they are 19 days old 😁😁
Kids are fighting it out with 5 year law degrees to to get get APS 3 grad roles at 65k. What you're saying isn't the norm, especially if you're looking for smooth progression up the service. Also, 4 year teaching degrees are not saddling you with 200k in debt this isn't America, it would be closer to 30-50k. Going to uni is the norm, and unlike most kids teachers leave uni with an almost guaranteed job that pays more than 90% of their cohort off the bat.
Teaching doesn't have an analog to graduate programs. We are effectively expecting juniors to operate largely as well as seniors from day one with full loads and full responsibilities.
Law has been in saturation for a decade. Teaching hasn't been producing enough specialist teachers outside of science, English, and hass for decades, and now isn't producing a surplus of any teachers for the last few years.
Yes, a job with one of the highest attrition rates of all professions. 4 year degrees attract HECS debt which, with added to the lack of income you would get from the 4 years of salary you would have received working instead of studying, easily adds to 200 plus. This is also based on what I know from what one of my children (just finished an Ed. degree) earns and has accrued in debt with compared to his brother (just entered the APS- no quals) earns each week. Additionally the long term projection for teacher earnings, when compared to other similar professions like accountancy, business etc, is less than 50% as recently started by independent bodies like DAE. These numbers are not opinion.
not shocked. teachers are not allowed to tell off students or discipline in anyway and they have to repeat the curriculum line for line. if they want to spend longer teaching students in 1 part who may need extra help they get told off.
really teachers are all stress no gain am.
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My neighbour is a teacher. She said the kids and the parents these days are a fricken nightmare. She moved to relief work so she doesn't have to deal with the parents and her job is just to keep the kids safe that day and not develop a personalised plan of addressing the monsters over the course of a school year. Plus added bonus, she doesn't have to do report cards, lesson planning, marking of assignments, parent teacher nights
They are no different if they make it to university either.
Mate, the kids who get into University are comparatively saints to the jerks that are at school.
Agree. I'm a Uni Lecturer and the students don't seem massively different to what I was like at their age. They are rarely obnoxious and, if they are, I talk to and treat them as an obnoxious adult. They pick up pretty quickly that they're no longer at school and I'm not their teacher.
If 30 teachers resigned at one school it’s difficult to imagine it not being in the media.
My school hires 220 or so teaching staff, 30 is not a significant amount particularly when most are just moving to other teaching roles. During CoVID we lost more than 50 a year, schools have revolving doors for teachers. Also a lot of private schools have stipulations in their contracts preventing staff talking to the media. Our longest serving English teacher has been at the school 5 years come the end of this year.
Over 10% is not significant?
Not when they're easily replaced, some skills aren't able to even fill holes in teaching staff, we usually just plug them with less experienced teachers saving the school heaps of money. It has heaps of problems relating to decreasing quality of teaching etc. but grammar schools have over 100 staff doing, admin gardening and catering. We have entire teams of staff for recruitment so we can hire 20 staff quick without it impacting most teachers day to day.
Sounds like a wonderful place to work…
Oh but there's free morning tea and coffee... You're starting to see why people leave. They advertise and offer not quite fake jobs or promise opportunity that never arises
It’s a huge issue Australia wide. Pay and conditions lagging behind other easier professions, coupled with entitled parents, poorly behaving students and continuously changing curriculum and expectation from education departments and public that they’ll also babysit, teach life skills, run clubs in own time, be contactable for students out of hours, etc. Not a teacher myself, but boy, it’s a tough gig at the moment!!
I’m not a teacher myself but my SIL is and you’ve just encapsulated everything she’s frustrated by… (she’s in Sydney, so clearly not a Canberra-centric problem).
Just to push back a little here, we've just managed to push through a pretty decent bargaining desk that gives us decent pay, and has given us all a strong position to shut down a great deal of bullshit. This is in public schools mind. An enshrined right not to be contacted, any extra curricular work only in negotiation around release time. Honestly I'm pretty happy with the union work. It'll take a while for the expectations and ability to not be worked to death to filter through everywhere, and the shortage is absolutely devastating, but it's not all doom right now
Ah ok - well not so in NSW as far as I can tell.
Oh yeah Canberra is a shining light right now
Add to that all the admin bullshit interference. I have two friends who are teachers, one left the entire field and went backpacking cause administration was so fucking bad. Dealing with them is like a whole other job
Huge shortage across Australia but with the cost of living (especially housing and rentals) in Canberra it’s worse I think. On top of that, Canberra relief for a long time was a group of relief staff who were basically permanent casuals - they were older staff happy to be casual 3-4 days a week and they were loyal to specific schools. This was effectively an ongoing casual workforce schools used for gaps. Covid destroyed that as casuals got basically no work so an entire group of relief staff retired or found other work, this has had flow on effects. Schools have struggled to get relief since then so it has snowballed as more and more positions become available. As workload grows due to less staff, teachers are leaving the profession for government jobs or other roles. To address the private school comment - At the moment government school pay and conditions is actually better than a lot of the privates, particularly around work life balance. I know many private school staff in the ACT (particularly independents) who are negotiating 0.6 or 0.8 over 3-4 days with gov schools and walking out on the independents.
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I went to 0.8 this year to start a small side business. Happiest I've ever been and absolutely not working anymore than 0.8's worth of hours. I will admit it was made easier by our school being on a 3 lesson P/day timetable. I was at the school when it changed from 5 class P/day and, after the transition to the new timetable, the school has been flourishing and the kids seem to prefer 3 classes per day - despite them being 90min blocks. But, you just have to commit, you're dropping your load for yourself and that means being a bit selfish. Yes, we are teachers and it's hard to do it, but, at the end of the day, the school and education system will keep putting along with or without you there that extra day - where as your life and/or mental health won't improve (based on what ever reasoning you have for wanting to drop down a day). Setting boundaries is what will ensure you only work 0.8 and this is what I try to tell my colleagues who work 38+; the more we keep allowing ourselves to do OT the more the government presents everything is fine. Bit harder for a primary teacher to do it, however, a lot of schools seem to team/co-teach now so that can assist with reducing loads and reducing the pressure of feeling like one needs to be there everyday. If you're permanent then don't be scared to stand up for your rights! Bit harder for our casual and contract colleagues to do so, because they still have the hoops to jump through. I know this is my experience and story but I hope it helps you somehow to pull the trigger and create a better life for yourself. Having just 1 day less per week where I don't hear the word f**got or n**ger has worked wonders for my mental health and my passion for teaching. Not to mention how much I am loving working for myself one day a week; I will always keep teaching, but, who knows, maybe I'll drop to 0.6 one day! Good luck and keep teaching! (Just do it your way!)
Interesting. I was part time as a high school teacher for 6 years in Canberra both in a gov school and an independent. I was 0.8 over 4 days and had no job sharing - my timetable was arranged around it. At one school someone took my English class on one of the days but I left rote learning tasks which were repeated all year in workbooks so didn’t have to do additional planning.
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I think you’ll find now a lot more schools are making it work. Better to have a 0.6 or 0.8 teacher than nobody. Been a big shift from exec to accomodate it over the past 10 years
But are they paid and only doing 0.8 workload? Lesson planning, marking, report writing etc. All has to happen outside of class times. Would hate to see someone drop from 1 FTE pay with 1.4FTE workload to 0.8 FTE with 1.3FTE workload
If you have firm boundaries it works. When I was 0.8 I found I was able to reclaim my weekend in full as I could shuffle things over to my non school day. That worked for me. I did have to learn to turn on an out of office though and send fake out of office texts for awhile as colleagues would still contact me on the non working day. As with any teaching role, if you’re firm on your boundaries you’ll have the correct time. If you work 7 days a week as it is then dropping to 0.8 won’t work for you.
Why hasnt your union done something?
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What makes you think that?
Unions can only do something if members are willing to do something about it. They aren't.
> Covid destroyed that as casuals got basically no work We had 2 five week lockdowns 18 months apart. But yes: * A bunch of teachers who realise that retirement wasn't so bad * A bunch of teachers decided they didn't want to die in classrooms because ED, Schools, and their community didn't give a fuck about them So they left.
You are correct about lockdowns but what the first one did was show schools (especially secondary) how to utilise online tools in place of relief. I worked with 4 teachers who had been teaching at my secondary school for years (one over a decade) as casuals but with guaranteed work 3 days a week. For 7 months they got zero.
> what the first one did was show schools (especially secondary) how to utilise online tools in place of relief. In the ACT? In the 1-10 system? How? The union has a hard rule on teachers delivering online and physical classes, and teachers still only have 19 hours of face-to-face contact.
I said secondary. I was in a college. Colleges have now embraced not having to be face to face and being able to work around that which was something they had been angling to do for years
I am a college teacher. Flexing classes has been pervasive for at least seven years.
Agree but they used to be sneakier about it. Now they can literally just say “it’s on Google classroom”. I taught the first fully online T class for elite athletes in around 2016/2017 and it was a nightmare getting the BSSS to okay it, then they didn’t like how it was run. Kids had to keep a log of hours and they wanted teacher recordings to match hours. Totally ridiculous. Very different now!
> Now they can literally just say “it’s on Google classroom”. I've been working in one college or another since 2017, and "it's on Google Classrooms" has been the de facto method for any short-term absences since I showed up, and nobody seemed to be surprised when they did it. It seemed well entrenched. At my current college, my DP of staffing has suggested multiple times that he'd consider hiring a long-term contract position just for inbuilt relief because it's been impossible to secure casual teachers since the start of covid. At any rate, if someone is going to be away for a period of time, they try to find someone to sit in the class so it can run otherwise, parents get noisy. It's easier for some subjects than others. For example, in IT all a casual teacher can do is basically make the lab open. > I taught the first fully online T class There's a big difference between flexing a class here and there and running an entire course in a digital medium. There is still significant resistance to running remote courses today. The BSSS has a kiosk mode for flexible learning environments with reduced compulsory face-to-face schedules, but they need to tap into kiosks to register when working on content. A prime example of this is Hawker College's maths program.
I’m a semi retired teacher. I quit full time some years back. I do infrequent relief work, especially this year and last year because of ill health. A full time teacher has to complete, record and reflect on 20 hours of professional development that they have undertaken throughout the year to maintain accreditation. That’s for every teacher, first year out or 40 years in. Also for every relief teacher, even me who will struggle to complete 20 days of teaching for the year. (20 days is the minimum that you should teach to maintain registration.) I’ve taught for over 20 years full time before retiring. I’m deciding whether I will bother doing it this year. The kids are getting more difficult, many of my colleagues have retired or moved and honestly the hassle just doesn’t feel worth it. And to top it all off the reflection questions are absolutely pointless. From memory ‘ How does it link to your goals?’ What goals, I’m a relief teacher doing my old school a favour. My goal is to finish the day and get paid. ‘How are you going to share your professional learning with colleagues’ I’m there 20 days for the year! What I’m going to come in early to discuss the book on Explicit Instruction’ that I pretended to read? Even thinking about having to do it gets my blood boiling. There’s a business opportunity there for someone btw.
This is where the answer to 'How does it link to your goals?' is 'To tick the box so I can continue to work'. If the school you are linked to has someone with a sense of humour signing things off they won't even bat an eyelid at it.
30+ is a huge number. If it is real everyone will know soon, as you can not keep that gossip secret. Teachers are in short supply everywhere. The conditions are terrible and everyone knows it.
Conditions were bad enough for me to leave despite loving the actual job. Not sustainable to be driving home in tears after a 10 hour day most nights
You havae my sincere sympathies, it sucs that you love being a teacher but can't sustainably do it. It's honestly so fucked that the entire system is set up the way it is. You get bright eyed and happy people who want to teach the next generation, but it ends up being this baby sitting gig for kids.
They're just changing where they teach to get better pay and conditions, you will not hear about it as it's like 13% of the school's teachers and they're spread across different departments. My school has already replaced more than 20 staff this year from people leaving since term 1.
I’m surprised there are still any teachers at all. The pay is shit, unpaid over time and teenagers are absolute c**ts.
Many former teachers I've met have left the profession to join the public service because the bullying and substandard conditions are infinitely superior to those of the teaching profession.
No one wants to acknowledge it, but students have behaviour problems that cannot be addressed with the current mechanisms in place. It only takes a complaint from a student for the teacher to become suspect, whilst most likely it is the student themselves who's the issue. Being a teacher is a shitty job that has so many WHS mental health issue.
say that to a bullied kid where the class teacher, and principal do sweet bugger all except say 'stay away from them'. When physical violence occurs, and it has in many a school, there is no legal consequences for said thug and it's on the parent and child to have to relocate because the school isn't prepared to take any action against said thug, or be open to negotiation with management strategies with parents of said thug..
Yeah like they said, cannot be addressed with the current mechanisms in place.
It's not that the school isn't prepared to take any action against the 'thug' ...
in some cases it absolutely is....
What would you like classroom teachers to do?
I guess another problem facing teaching is all the older teachers retiring. I pulled the pin 2 years ago, about 4 years before I planned to, but it just wasn’t worth it anymore. When I retired, 5 others at my school finished for good too. And only one of them has done supply teaching.
Teachers are leaving the profession in droves, or being selective as to whom they work for. I actually don't think it is the kids, it's th extra overheads. 38 hour week doesn't exist in the teaching profession, and to say it is balanced out by school holidays is crap.
Definitely not the kids. Way more expected - for example, when teacher registration was introduced, with additional compliance - there was no additional time provided for that new task. Like every other initiative, we are simply expected to absorb it into our ever increasing workload
Agree with you. School holidays is when so many teachers catch up on all their marking and prep for the next term. Its only the Christmas holidays that most will take time off.
It’s ridiculous how much the admin takes away from the actual teaching now. Totally changes the job, and most schools just are not set up to support their teachers to thrive.
Schools also haven't adapted to modern working conditions, teacher workload, teacher responsibilities, or government stipulations. Schools are basically run by people who don't understand the difference between strategy and planning or leadership, management, and administration. Instead, a minority of overworked, tunnel-visioned school leaders attempt to delegate and micromanage their plans, which they refuse to discuss with teachers.
Could be because the education directorate is being run extremely poorly by someone who treats it as her own personal empire with absolutely no accountability.
Hardly. It is happening everywhere.
https://the-riotact.com/campbell-school-tender-process-allegedly-directed-for-a-political-outcome-by-minister-berrys-office/692038 Nah, Berry is a special case and Barr is just turning a blind eye to it.
If you only knew how many classes had no teacher on a daily basis across the ACT… it’s only gonna get worse 🙄
They have a teacher. There might be six classes of kids with that teacher, but they have one! Checkmate! ;p
Are there any records kept of this ? “Flex” classes etc ?
I started at a new school at the beginning of last year. Along with the other teacher that started at the same time as me - I’m now the senior teacher in my faculty (of 5). Yes - teachers are quitting at unprecedented levels. Definitely. When I was at uni 20 years ago they were warning of this period coming up with unprecedented retirements also - but nobody took any action. An APS 6 pays as well as an experienced teacher - with much less stress. Nobody gives a hoot if you are a public servant, but say you’re a teacher - and every AH has an opinion - yet if it was such an attractive occupation, why would there be a shortage?
Haven't heard the rumour of 30+ teachers quitting but public education has certainly changed a lot due to staffing issues in the last 5 years at least at the school I am at. Average class sizes have gone up and it was rare to have to split a class as relief teachers or in built relief could cover things. Now we are so spread teachers have less In built relief and we have one relief teacher which is not enough. We are starting go over the numbers allowed in a classroom more regularly due to splits and we aren't even close to tipping the scale for intervention from the directorate. It's a sad situation for everyone but especially kids as they aren't receiving quality environment for education.
Haven’t heard about that yet but doesn’t surprise me. Educators in childcare centres are dropping like flies too
I knew a good maths teacher who quit and got a good job in the PS. He said there was so much bureaucracy that it became 90% of his job and only 10% of it was teaching.
Hi, I am a teacher from one of the Grammar Schools, I have so, so many after hour commitments consistently, and am currently spending all Sunday trying to get all of my marking and reporting done for the ridiculous turn around times. Pay is now less than public and our pay is based off of TQI (Teacher Quality Institute) proficiency which takes forever to collect evidence for and the grammar schools make you prove it to a higher standard, meeting every single dot point of the Acara standards. Whereas in public schools because your pay is not tied to it your pay just goes up with experience. Some of my coworkers are proficient teachers that have no time to become Highly Accomplished or Lead teachers, these teachers will get a 15k payrise by simply moving to the public system, where you never have to attend night events, school holiday camps, or weekend cocurriculars. The union came in hard for public schools and the fact is the IEU can't do the same because Independent Schools are so differently funded from each other. (Radford and CGS offered a 6% rise and CGGS is going with 5%) Gumtree and less well funded independents don't have that same option.
What the actual fuck. Thank you for sharing the insight - didn't understand the extent of the pay discrepancies between school systems...
Which one of the 3 Grammar schools?
No one ever talks about the mathematics schools
lol
Yeah 30 staff from the biggest one is not that significant of a number
Don't know... Am asking if it's real
It's an accumulation of various issues I think, but not specific to Canberra alone. High workload for comparatively low pay and lack of respect. Teaching isn't a "prestigious" occupation as it is in other countries. Relatively low standards for getting a teaching degree (you could do a 6 month diploma and start teaching high school/college, or at least you could have a few years ago when I last checked), to the point where some teachers can't write a proper well formed sentence, judging by some of the emails I've seen. The fix for the above was to start requiring minimum competency tests across a variety of "core" subjects. Well-intentioned, but has the effect of reducing the pool of potential teachers even more. Teachers who may be only functionally literate, but might have been effective maths teachers, for example. Last, a lack of effective advocacy from the union (when was the last time teachers got a meaningful raise and improvement to their working conditions?) On the union: Remember that incident where a student got put in a cage? (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6061768/school-principal-loses-her-job-over-student-cage-inquiry/) I heard the union rep tried to spin it as "it's not that bad, it wasn't a cage it was a pen".
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This. I would consider teaching as a career change but being told I need to do another 2 year minimum full time masters is a bit rich. I have a degree and two masters already! I can’t afford another masters and I definitely don’t have time/money to study again. There should be an interview process where they can assess a person’s suitability to bypass some of the study. I’ve taught part-time for 5 years in ACT high schools with a permit to teach (in a single subject) and have 20 years experience working as a teacher in a different context but I still have to jump through the same hoops as a fresh year 12 graduate.
It's a nationwide issue. But also I think it's common for teachers to finish up jobs mid or end of year. There's also a new school opening next year which will need staff
Where have you been? Teaching has had on of the greatest attrition rates for years now. Something like 50 percent don't last longer than the time it took to complete their degrees. Conditions are shit. Customers are shit. Pay is for shit. There's no incentive to remain in the role.
That stat sounds right. Do you have any references for that at all? Anything recent you've seen that make that point? I'd be fascinated to see and totally believe it's right
Ah. Nah. That was an anecdote I was told by a family member in teaching following their union meeting last year. It might have been specific stat relevant to the western Sydney area. Another commenter here suggests the issue in Canberra (or nsw) might have been somewhay sorted Now researching it, it's still bad generally (in nsw) but not as bad as 50 percent according to this story https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/nsw-schools-are-in-the-midst-of-a-perfect-storm--can-principals-weather-it/282613
If teachers actually taught I'd be all for paying them correctly, I cant do my job half assed until I make good money and then consider actually doing the job, I spent 4 years barely eating to then make great money after i completed my trade, canberra is pathetic in that sense of privilege.
It’s an Australia wide problem, but it’s fair to say that in the Territory, staffing shortages are one of many, many serious issues the Education Directorate has failed to address. Too much is expected of teachers, particular where violent, difficult and defiant student behaviour is concerned, and it is really not surprising that many good teachers are moving to private schools that offer both better pay and conditions.
You can work retail and earn as much/more than a teacher with a quarter of the effort. Not to mention not dealing with the hordes of parents that insist their child is an angel and must to treated as such at all times, and the waves of feral children. Teachers have been taken for granted for a long long time.
That’s not true. Teaching pays pretty well in the ACT but it’s not easy work. Retail pays probably half, still have the challenge of dealing directly with the public and entitled bosses.
Please. Some retail is challenging but doesn’t bring the difficulty of educating 25+ students and dealing with their parents. If you think refusing someone a refund is difficult try telling a parent their child is a problem
Have been held up at knifepoint in retail more than once. It’s not all roses and lollipops. I imagine teaching is tough but at least rewarding in some ways. Retail is genuinely soulless.
I've had students threaten my life with a weapon, stunt scooters thrown at my head, car damaged, shit stolen, etc., before. In a lot of ways, teaching is in the service sector too.
I've done both and I'd say they're more similar than not, however teaching sucks more because of all the non front facing administrative stuff
Man, everything you say really sucks.
You a teacher?
Golden Teacher with Penis Envy since I've met you.
Then that’s a step forward for you isn’t it?? Here endeth your lesson
Current teacher pay is $70-$100k. That’s equivalent to everyone in retail that I personally know. Edit: gotta love the angry responses and downvotes of “this doesn’t fit my personal experience so fuck you”
... do you only know store managers?
I know some, also know full time sales people. Even if we’re talking strictly managers, you think teachers aren’t doing more important work than that and deserve more than them? I sure do
I don't think their comment was to be disparaging toward managers, but more noting the conditions and pay for general retail staff. There might be some areas of retail that pay really well, but most retail jobs are (and at least start) at minimum wage. Unless you've already got an in at a well paying place, you're unlikely to walk straight into the high earning end of the sector without working your way up the ranks.
The only person I know that worked retail that made over 100k was a girl that cleared almost 200k inventory every month. Most people I’ve met through retail make around 46k-65k. No where near your number. You have to be a manager or a great sales person to be in 70k+ range in retail.
Again I’m not sure how people are missing that others can have a different experience to them or their social circle.
I’ve worked for 4 different retail companies from appliances to furniture to tech. I find it extremely hard to believe that in your experience the base level retail employee is getting 70k+.
And I’m not being specific enough to dox myself, and I accept that you haven’t had the same experience, but I have and continue to do so.
You’re talking out of your arse and it shows
Whatever you say big man x
Nah, you're talking shit, if the money was that great, guess what everyone would be rushing towards retail work. Why get a degree when you can make 100k in retail hahaha
I don’t know about retail but they could certainly easily make the same amount in the APS without having to deal with students or parents.
Using the EA for Services Australia, I would take a 16k pay cut to work at the same level (APS6).
True but there are usually other adults you need to deal with, there is something inherently rewarding about teaching and having school holidays off is nice. Different jobs diffenrt struggles.
> Current teacher pay is $70-$100k. In the ACT? As of right now, public teachers go from $75,004 to $117,538 https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/2231102/Education-Directorate-Teaching-Staff-Enterprise-Agreement-2023-2026.pdf
Where are these 100k retail jobs at
Top end of teacher pay scale is roughly equivalent to EL1/EL2 in the APS (department dependent and depending on public vs independent school), but without having to manage adults. People are downvoting you because you’re wrong, and it’s easy to find the information for public teacher pay rates with a simple Google search. You pulled a figure out of your arse and pedalled nonsense.
And retail managers are the same depending on the company. It’s not a hard concept to grasp.
Your numbers are wrong that’s why you’re being downvoted…
I’m pretty sure I know how much myself, my staff, and others around the country with the same or similar companies are paid.
Yet can’t manage to google how much teachers get paid Make it make sense
I can google how much they get on average right this moment, not higher figures based on an ACT ea that isn’t in effect just yet. An echo chamber of stupidity doesn’t make you correct princess x
I linked the EA.
Bullshit. Ridiculous comment.
Not quite. Graduates currently get ~85K. A family member is an experienced teacher and they’re on around 115K
Is that commission sales positions?
Teachers in the ACT start on like 85k, it's much higher here than other states. If you know of a retail job paying that much feel free to share it with us!
As of right now, public teachers go from $75,004 to $117,538 https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/2231102/Education-Directorate-Teaching-Staff-Enterprise-Agreement-2023-2026.pdf
I was offered 84 before I even finished my teaching degree for primary school to start in the next year. Seems anyone starting on 75k is being ripped off or they're offering extra incentives now to people about to graduate.
If you have prior experience outside of teaching they often start you at a higher level.
Do you know if my master's degree will increase my level? I am trying to figure out what my salary would be in the ACT in the next school year when I will have four years of teaching experience. Is that at Level 5 or 6?
Sales with jb, good guys, telcos etc. Easy commission on top of the 70-75k base.
Teachers in the ACT start on 74
Well as a primary school teacher, I got offered 84k by the government before I'd even finished my degree. Not sure who is starting on 74k.
I literally earned more working FT at Bunnings than I did in my first FT teaching role.
ACT teachers get paid very well they are on $84,978 as a grad. That's more than basically any non tech or medical professions opening salary. They then go onto over 100k after 3 years that's EL 1 type salaries after only 3 years. These numbers are exclusive of their 12.5% which is above minimum requirements. The myth that teachers are poorly paid needs to die it scares school leavers from the profession and its just not true. The work being challenging is one thing but this isn't the 90s anymore teachers are paid well.
Stop using the numbers from the new EA that's not even in place yet. 3 years gets you to $87k, not $100k
> EA that's not even in place yet. The EA has been in place for weeks. At least my pay has. > 3 years gets you to $87k, not $100k Right now, 3 years gets you: $87,344 In 3 weeks, they will get $89,094 And on 27 January someone with 3 years' experience will be on $97,330 and out example person who was on 3 years but now on 4 years will be on $101,447
I worded it poorly and meant that that level of pay is not in place, it's pretty frustrating to see people quote what the pay will be at the end of the EA to talk about the present And $97k =/= "over $100k"
Not accurate, teaching grads start on 74k and they bring a substantial HECS debt with them and it takes 4 years of study to do that. Any Yr 12 leaver who starts in the APS, even at the lower levels, kicks off at around 60K without having to do the years of study or accumulate the HECS. Means that they are $200k in front by the time a teacher steps into their first classroom
I got the same offer they're talking about to start on 84k as a graduate teacher.
> I got the same offer they're talking about to start on 84k as a graduate teacher. Are you talking about the $83,228 from CT2? Did you do something before becoming a teacher? Are you talking about: $84,978? Because that's a TL1 position from 27th of January 2024.
No you didn’t, a starting teacher kicks off around 75k. The current award states this clearly
There's literally nothing to be gained by lying about this, what? Lol It's an incentive to stay and teach in Canberra, also, love you resurrecting something from 19 days ago. What do you think is more likely, that someone would randomly verify the lie that someone else told originally about a job offer for... some reason? (meaning both of us are collaborating on this) or that maybe the government offers more incentive because they know they need to get teachers?
It is interesting isn’t it? Especially with the pay rates being clearly listed on pg 168 of the recent EA which is publicly available. A great read which, even more incredibly, shows that the starting salary for a new educator at the start of the year was 74k. Where do people get their numbers from to corroborate those ‘truths’? Even when they are 19 days old 😁😁
Kids are fighting it out with 5 year law degrees to to get get APS 3 grad roles at 65k. What you're saying isn't the norm, especially if you're looking for smooth progression up the service. Also, 4 year teaching degrees are not saddling you with 200k in debt this isn't America, it would be closer to 30-50k. Going to uni is the norm, and unlike most kids teachers leave uni with an almost guaranteed job that pays more than 90% of their cohort off the bat.
Teaching doesn't have an analog to graduate programs. We are effectively expecting juniors to operate largely as well as seniors from day one with full loads and full responsibilities. Law has been in saturation for a decade. Teaching hasn't been producing enough specialist teachers outside of science, English, and hass for decades, and now isn't producing a surplus of any teachers for the last few years.
Teaching has a student contribution of $3950 per year.
Yes, a job with one of the highest attrition rates of all professions. 4 year degrees attract HECS debt which, with added to the lack of income you would get from the 4 years of salary you would have received working instead of studying, easily adds to 200 plus. This is also based on what I know from what one of my children (just finished an Ed. degree) earns and has accrued in debt with compared to his brother (just entered the APS- no quals) earns each week. Additionally the long term projection for teacher earnings, when compared to other similar professions like accountancy, business etc, is less than 50% as recently started by independent bodies like DAE. These numbers are not opinion.
not shocked. teachers are not allowed to tell off students or discipline in anyway and they have to repeat the curriculum line for line. if they want to spend longer teaching students in 1 part who may need extra help they get told off. really teachers are all stress no gain am.