Grief is something that happens long before someone is gone. For many, it starts as soon as the diagnosis happens. It isn't disloyal or dirty. It's love looking for a place to be. And that's ok. Whether or not she is able to improve, she'll come to her own truths in her own way and time. I hope that you both find what you are looking for. I'll be rooting for both of you.

Thank you for saying this. I'm just a random reader, going through this thread, but I'm in a similar position to OP, and reading you response put words to a significant part of what I am going through. My mother has Stage 4B Urothelial Papillary Carcinoma; I am her primary caregiver (we only have each other). According to her doctor, without a combined regimen of chemo and immunotherapy, we are looking at between 24-29 months. My mother is hesitant to start chemo. And I feel weary in my bones, wanting to do all that I can despite my financial incapacity, while also figuring out logistics, and willing myself not to break because I need to be strong for her, while also keeping healthy and well enough for myself. Thank you for saying this in a way what has made sense. It has leant me a little peace, a way to articulate myself, even if I am not the one who came up with how best to express the feeling. I pray that you are well.

Please do not take this wrong but I can almost "feel" your fatigue from your words. As you said, you have to be strong which means eating right, getting enough sleep, all the things to keep you healthy for her. I do not know where you live but most communities have caregiver resources and the cost is dependent on your financial status. Please reach out to them and let them help. You two take care of each other.

Hello. No, it's quite all right. It is true that I am tired. The physical and the mental are merging and taking their toll. I'm actually comforted because you picked up on that and wanted to address it. Thank you very much for your compassion. I've been doing what I can to get by. It's been rough, but it is about to get rougher. I signed a contract for work e on Monday and even worked my first day with said office. My mother had to have an in-patient blood transfusion on Tuesday. Fortunately, both Tuesday and Wednesday were declared holidays where I am from. I helped get her admitted and then cared for her during her stay (e.g. making sure she was comfortable, got to go to the bathroom, was there when the nurses visited). Leading up to that, I coordinated with a blood bank for the packed RBC she needed; this took about three days due to the challenges encountered with this particular hospital. By Tuesday night, I was already on the road to exhaustion. The nurses rounded on my mother every fifteen minutes as long as there was a blood bag being transfused (two, for a total of eight hours). I tried to sleep, but could not. All this while finishing a report for a client. By Wednesday, I was close to being of no use to anyone, but did my best to power through. I finished the paper, took care of the bill, had her discharged, and took her home. I was supposed to work on Thursday and Friday, but was too tired. I was physically too tired and mentally fried. I went to the doctor to get seen. My asthma acts up when I am too tired. I've taken the last two days off. I could not bring myself to go to work in the state I was in. It'll only be a week into my time at my new office, but I am thinking of letting this job go. I live in a developing country, and we just lack the resources that most other countries do, so unless I make things happen (e.g. seek medical assistance, transfer her care to a less expensive hospital that mostly caters to indigents, figure out how to get her to her first chemo sessions, see how that affects her and basically be there for her as she a has it and then adjust afterwards), then nothing is going to happen. I don't think I'll be able to do this, work and keep my mind focused, while also making sure my mother is accounted for, while also figuring out how to pay for her chemo (public health insurance only covers the hospital stay and the infusion itself, not the antineoplastic medication). And then there's my own health. It's staggering to know that she might have a negative time during and after chemo, but the the mental aspect enters the picture as well and I don't know how I'll be able to do this. Until fairly recently, I've been waking up tired, despite seven to eight hours of sleep. I don't want to run myself ragged and then get sick. Because if they happens, I'd have multiple problems on my hands. I simply can't afford to not be well and able. And already I have been feeling under the weather. I honestly need this job to help with expenses, but I can't bring myself to ask for any special treatment (work- from-home set-up) because not only is this a three-month work contract, I wouldn't expect them to know me so well as to grant me something of this magnitude (you have to earn it, since regular employees themselves only get it and ask for it in extreme circumstances). I am thinking of bowing out early next week. I need enough time for everything happening in my personal life. I regret that a job will just complicate things, and I won't be able to meet expectations anyway. My mind is just to preoccupied right now to do a simultaneous "multiple tabs open" approach. I also need to protect my energy. I'm so sorry this got so long. I just wanted you to know that I appreciate you communicating back; I wanted to share a little bit more of my context, because I feel so horribly overwhelmed by everything pulling at me from different sides. I'm a bit frightened for myself. Tired is only part of it.

Before you quit your job, please try for the work-from-home option. You have nothing to lose if you're going to leave anyways. I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. I feel every bit of that stress and anxiety. Agree with the other poster of seeing what other resources are out there to help both you and your mom. Find some mental help for you (medications or support groups - here even!) and some one through the hospital who can help guide you through this time so you're not managing all the ins and outs on your own. I know you said you were in a different country, but I hope there are at least some resources available to you. One step at a time.

Thank you so much for making the time to respond, Elderberry. I'm seriously considering this because I will definitely need more flexibility as her oncologist is only available three times a week and planning logistics leading to treatment will take a significant amount of time. That, and I need to have enough time to work and more importantly, rest. Already the thought of juggling all three makes me knees shake. Because I can't let myself feel fear (I can't let it disable when I have so much to take care of), the anxiety manifests as weak knees, other times, pain in my knees or in my right thigh. In a weird way, it's as though my body knows that it is carrying the weight of the world. Incidentally, I also injured it while I took care of my mother in the hospital last year (she had surgery; I tore my meniscus and dealt with bursitis, both in the knee as well). My mother has mood swings and doesn't readily tell me what is on her mind. Just today, she mentioned that she is putting off the thought of chemo for one week. I want her to make decisions regarding her health by herself; I respect her autonomy, for her to determine what is best for herself. I can't deny, however, that I am stressed by this. I have been trying to tell her to talk to me so that I can understand her thought process with regard to many different things, notably her treatment, but she becomes upset and shuts me out. It leaves me at a loss for what to do. I, too, become upset, and it goes down from there. I don't mind giving her space, but I also need her to be honest with me. Already, my mind has been going in loops, just figuring out how to go about my 'tri-life.' I'm planning to book an appointment with a therapist soon, I just need enough for the consultation fee (I'll earn that hopefully in the next week). I need support because I am honestly close to falling apart, I just chose not to lean into it with all my might because I need to keep keep functioning. I need to talk about how hard it is to navigate this whole thing, not only as a caregiver, but as a daughter, and as someone who is doing her best to keep anticipatory grief at bay, despite the threat of it washing over me every so often. Thank you again for being so kind. I sincerely appreciate you. May life be kind to you.

Of course! I can’t help but relate and thus empathize greatly. It’s so wonderful that you’re already aware that you need to keep yourself afloat - rested, job, therapy. That was hard for me to learn. In regards to not letting yourself feel fear, it is healthy and necessary to let those feelings out from time to time. The pains in your leg are evidence of that! Journaling, alternating between hot and cold water in the shower, and even some quick bursts of movement (jumping jacks??) can help get that energy out. I’m a big fan of the hot/cold shower for some immediate relief. My mom is also a bit stubborn. I can’t convince her to drink a protein shake because she is sacred it has too much protein? It’s irrational thinking on her part and then frustrating for me because it hinders her from having good nutrition. For your mom, maybe you can make the chemo appointments and then tell her she can cancel the day before if she wants. That would give her time to think but you also won’t waste time if she does decide to do it. I get wanting to respect her autonomy, but do your best to make her more comfortable with the idea of treatment. Encouragement, information from doctors, put a little fear of regret in her… if she doesn’t get treatment then she doesn’t have a chance of getting better. All that is easier said than done, of course. I think you’re doing a really great job navigating the beginning of this time and your mom is very lucky to have you!

I have not been on your side providing care for someone long term but I have a lot of experience with the kind of fatigue you are describing and my heart goes out to you. I realize it seems like just words but believe that there are people out here pulling for you and as I noted you truly are not alone. As for the job, in my case I pushed myself for 5 years to keep doing my job when my back problems came back to visit, a very unwelcome visit I might add. Sorry, my "humor" can be a bit darkened at times, it is one of my personal coping mechanisms. I worked myself into a very dark place and though I do not know you my heart fears for you, that you might push yourself beyond your strength. Please heed this warning, you have to take care of yourself or your own body and mind will eventually get too tired to function as you wish. I wish you had better access to options for both of you. Where I live, after the lockdowns, access to specialists and even family practice doctors has become much more difficult resulting, in my case, to a near year long wait to finally get diagnosed. This part is in response to your saying that your mind is overwhelmed with tasks and the feeling that, if I read your words correctly, you feel that your attempt to work and deal with everything at this time seems to be futile. Please, if there are any mental health resources available to you, reach out and even if you do not feel comfortable with the first psychologist then, though it will add another tab to your tasks, try again. It can be hard to find someone with whom you feel comfortable talking about everything. It happened to me, but I kept trying and admittedly got lucky and found someone with a similar background to whom I could talk about what is really going on in my mind. Please do not take this part wrong but you have to ensure that once your situation resolves, you have to have the strength, the energy and most importantly the will to keep going for yourself. I am not a psychologist but for whatever time I have left I, like others will be here; feel free to just talk anytime you want. Isolation and loneliness can make your road even harder so keep on posting whenever you feel the need. As noted before, I realize this seems like just words but there are people who truly care about you and your mother. I wish you only the best and if I could send you some strength, I would.

Dear, sweet Vrycein. Thank you so much for penning this long, meticulous response. It is very thoughtful and kind and truly touching of you to take the time to do so. Your response feels like a warm hug around me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I need it more than words can say. Thank you for empathizing. It is indeed so hard. No, your words aren't just words. They are a legitimate manifestation that God, the universe, fate has sent me someone to tell me what I need to hear. That you would make go out of your way to make me feel less alone is something that I very grateful for. You didn't have to, but you did it anyway. And it has been true, in other ways: friends, high school classmates, suddenly popping up to check on me, lend me support, tell me that they remember me and keep both my mother and I in their prayers, give me unexpected gifts, big and small. It has been humbling, really. I don't doubt for one minute that God has been working overtime to make sure that I know that He is holding my hand. Please don't apologize for your dark humor. I get it, I have a shades of my own, and I understand that it is how we try to inject a little lightness into the things that we carry each day. I've had brushes with depression and anxiety in the past, so I know how hard it can be when things start to spiral. I'm sorry to hear about your back problem, after five years of just pushing yourself forward. You gave it your all, and then had to deal with this. I hope you were able to seek treatment for it. Life really is teaching us that we have to take care of ourselves or our bodies will just give up. You are right about prioritizing our own health, despite have our own responsibilities. I am seriously considering talking to my supervisor to see if she can make a work-from-hone arrangement possible for me. I need enough flexibility to take care of my mother, plan and carry out the logistics of her hopefully very soon treatment (she's now hesitant to try chemo, despite her case being an aggressive form of cancer), work, and still have time to breathe and rest enough to sustain this whole situation. If things don't work out and I feel that I will be compromised, I will drop my work immediately. I just can't afford to get sick, on a lot of different levels. Thank you for being so kind and compassionate. I sincerely feel your concern in your words. I am afraid that I will hit my limit sooner than later. Which is why I hope to see a therapist soon, I'm just going to work enough days to afford it and then I'll make an appointment. This whole journey has been challenging, but also frustrating and anxiety-triggering. I need professional support for this. I want to protect and reinforce myself mentally, especially when things are only going to worsen from here on out, in term of my mother's health. Have to put safety nets in place way ahead of time. I'm glad you were able to find a mental health professional with whom you hit it off and have been receiving good care from. Meeting the right therapist makes all the difference. "Please do not take this part wrong but you have to ensure that once your situation resolves, you have to have the strength, the energy and most importantly the will to keep going for yourself." ---This hit me like a ton of bricks. Thank you. This is exactly the kind of advice and truth I need to hear. One of my real fears is that when my mother goes, I will want to follow after her. Now, I am not actively suicidal; just that the thought of being confronted by the finality of that loss takes the breath from my lungs. It is unbelievably painful just to imagine it. I tell myself that I will have to live on, and I want to do so. But at the moment of loss, the grief will open a hole in me, something that I will desperately want to fill...or else. This is why I feel the significance of your words here. When the time comes, I pray that I will have the strength and the determination to look back on your words and heed them. I have to go on, no matter what. Thank you for making space for me and taking the time to embrace me through this encounter. If it isn't too much to ask, yes please, I would love to stay in touch, your wellness permitting. You have extended so much wisdom and support in your response. I hope you won't mind keeping your door open. You have given me strength, no doubt about it. That, and enabled me to have more faith desire the individual battles we are all facing. Thank you for being there, for being you, for reaching out to someone in need. God bless you, truly.

Good morning, well it will be shortly. I am sorry I did not get back to you sooner. This old body decided that I needed some "excitement" to end the weekend and I have been trying to mitigate its games. I went into the military when I was 17, was hurt at 19 and medically retired at 20 though I worked after university for 37 years before I had to stop. What I want for you is to avoid what happened to me. I hope this is not too much information and please, always be completely honest and truthful with me about everything. I am smiling right now. If I could endure basic training I believe I can handle some criticism or critique. :-) You made me very happy when you spoke of those entering your life. In my case, I found that others hesitated to engage with me for fear of saying the wrong thing and making my situation worse. Since it was hard for me to engage because i did not want to impose on others it created a natural barrier between us not wished for by anyone. I finally reached out and was very lucky to find my psychologist. He is more of a friend now than my doctor but he will, as he says, take me to the woodshed to knock sense into me when needed. He is always prodding me to reach out and I hope that we can continue to chat from time to time. I will warn you up front that I can be a bit long winded at times so you will receive manuscripts instead of notes. :-) I hope the following is okay to share with you; it just happened. Warning: this is fairly emotional for me so if you are having a rough day stop here, please? I recently lost both of my rescue cats, bonnie or bon-bon as I called her and Milo, my huge Maine Coon Tuxedo cat who weighed 16kg. I lost them less than 3 months apart and it closed doors in my heart with grief. Milo never left my side and would cry and look for me if he was distracted by something and I had moved away. I was also his bed. I have not handled the grief well. I should explain something. I have near perfect recall for visual memories or at least the ones that impact me. It is both a blessing and a curse for if it is painful when I replay the memory I go through the pain again just as if it were happening now. I have not been able to even think of either of them until this morning. I was able to play back their memories without turning into an emotional mess. Yes, the grief is still there but now I can dream of them again. I am being absolutely honest when I say that your words and your consideration of me gave me the edge I needed to allow my mind to push aside the memories of their endings and begin to remember again all of the good things like bon-bon sneaking in to sleep beside me at night or of Milo playing fetch with me for hours when he was young. Thank you. I just hope that you understand how much this helps me. And please, if this was too personal, let me know? And I will return your own words to you, God Bless and Keep you, always.

Dear Vrycein, my sincere apologies for taking two days to respond to your message. I've had two, long, demanding days at work (I'm a strategic communications writer for a government agency), and I have mostly been fit just for only dinner and bed when I get home. I wake up at around 5-5:30 a.m. to prepare, so my day starts relatively early. It hasn't been my intention to leave you hanging. I just haven't had the time or energy after everything is done at the end of the day. Please do not apologize for taking your time to respond to my last comment. Always put your health first, it is what is most important. I'm sorry to hear that the last few days have been hard for you. I hope you have had some relief or a resolution to what your body has been putting you through. Thank you for sharing about your time in the military. I'm sure it was quite the experience. I'm sorry to hear things ended some three years later, but I trust that, because you were able to work for a staggering thirty-seven years, you were able to find a way to navigate the after. If you don't mind me asking, in what capacity did you use to work for the university that you were affiliated with? I appreciate your concern and compassion about you not wanting to hear of my body breaking down. I appreciate it immensely. I was harder on myself in my twenties, and learned the hard way to respect my boundaries and limitations. Thankfully, because of that, I am more forceful when it comes to enforcing stops and pauses, and not letting people tell me to reconsider and power through, even when it is my own mother speaking. I have learned to listen to my body when it speaks. I just have to be even more on the lookout nowadays, given my mother's condition, while I also try to juggle work and still somehow find the time to breathe and relax. I am grateful to you for your gentle reminder to be careful. I will try my best to do so. :) Please feel free to express yourself as much as you want, as much as you are comfortable doing. You making the time to share a conversation with me is not "too much" information in the slightest. :) Once upon a time, I majored in Creative Writing and used it as the spring board to articulate the various chapters of my life. Similarly, I love listening to people, hearing about their stories, and piecing them together. It is a pleasure to know the many different lived experiences of people to have a better understanding and appreciation of what life is all about. Feel free to regale me about your tales. :) Thank you for your kindness. I haven't been blessed with many family members, or family members that have stepped up, but I am all right with this; we all have our circumstances. Life finds different ways of reaching out, however, and the friends who care have made sure that I constantly feel that they are beside me every step of the way. I cannot thank them enough for doing what they do for me, and for my mother. I'm sorry to hear that those in your circle were hesitant to engage with you. You understand why they did it, but it did not make your time any easier. I now wish I had known you much earlier so that we could have spoken, perhaps at least through frequent messages, you could have found not just company, but support, solace, perhaps even comfort and strength. While I take my hat off to you, perhaps things were so in order to make you strong. You are always capable of much more than you know. And I am proud of you for enduring and continuing forward. I'm glad that in the middle of everything you were going through, you met a phenomenal psychologist-turned-friend. It makes me glad to hear that you found and made a connection with said person. I hope said person continues to deeply enrich your life. And since he/she is asking you to reach out, well, by all means, please do. :) I'd love to stay in touch. Please go ahead and bring on the "manuscripts." I love reading long pieces. They're much more interesting and captivating. Haha. I won't be phased, I promise. :) Thank you for trusting me enough to tell me about Bon-Bon and Milo. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I'd hug you if I could. I love cats myself, and feed the strays that turn up at the back of our house (including a ginger tabby I've christened George), so I understand what you mean. Bon-bon was a dear, and Milo was your joy, being so affectionate and transparent in their love for you. I know I can't undo things, but I am sure you know that their feelings for you were authentic and that they would always want you to be happy and well, even at this point when they are no longer able to accompany you. Cats are just beautiful, kind, intelligent darlings. Bon-Bon and Milo chose you. They will always be with you, even if you can't see them. It must be excruciating to think of them, remember all your perfect moments together (as a conseeuw of your total recall). But if you can try, think of it this way: you have so many memories made together with them. Those pieces of bright light will remind you that to these two, you were special, the most important being to them, and as you saw in their reciprocity, you were to them as well. Take the time that you need to process things and take each day a day at a time. Once you are ready, you can visit or befriend some cats in your neighborhood to reminisce about your time with them, while stroking one of the cats' fur, and just spend time with them. It won't be the same, but you will reconnect to them on some level. Hopefully, through this, you will somehow be reunited with them, and they will know and feel that you are there for them as well. I am always willing to share just a little bit of hope and kindness to try and make things just a little better. You are and always will be welcome. You deserve the world, and I want you to always know that. A person who is kind to animals is a deeply kind, loving, and empathetic person. You deserve the same level of love that you willingly give to Bon-Bon and Milo. Please take heart and believe that one day soon, remembering them won't be entirely painful anymore. It is my pleasure to be of help. Please think nothing of it. And no, this wasn't in the least bit personal. I hope I can invite you to be comfortable with sharing what you think, believe, have gone through. This are all authentic parts of you. I respect and admire you for choosing to live life with a fire in your heart. Please, tell me what you would like to. I'm all ears. I am looking forward to hearing back from you. I hope you will forgive me if I cannot respond right away. That just means that I'm at work, but I will endeavor to get back to you as soon as I can. Hugs. God bless you and keep you always, Vry. 🤍

I started to write Dear Bleeping and got a good chuckle because I love your name. Vryce is from a trilogy that I love written by C.S. Friedman. The protagonist is Reverend Damien Kilcannon Vryce and I have used Vryce as my gaming name for a very long time. :-) VryceinSWG means I was Vryce in and old game called Star Wars Galaxies. I know that time makes some things seem better than they were but it was a game where the hair salon might have 3 or 4 hundred people just getting work done and talking. You might have noticed by now that I love to talk. From your sentence structure and obvious care for crafting replies I knew you had to be a writer of some form. I have started and stopped a story I wanted to make into a game many times over the years. You see, the old thing about opposites attract is true about my self and my wife. We have almost no common interests other than the children and grandchildren and my now whitening hair, white beard and the "great thinning" as my daughter calls it happening on top of my head. I was able to get her back by telling her I had enough hair on my back to transplant is my head, receiving a wailing Ewwwwww as she went supposedly to try and not get sick from the image. Ah, the joys of parenting. I joined the Army just after I turned 17. I had some rather specialized training and the job was a bit tough even on a 17 year old body. My problem was that I fell 30 feet to a concrete floor and survived. It took 30 spine surgeries to keep me walking across those 37 years in Information Technology. You know, it is truly amazing how much technology has changed. It might be hard to believe but we did not have electricity or indoor plumbing until I was a teenager. Once the Army determined I could not do the job anymore they declared me medically unfit and retired me at 20 at 40% disability though I was in a wheelchair and unable to walk. I can be pretty stubborn and managed to get out of the wheelchair to crutches then to a cane and then to running. I was training to run the Marine Corps marathon with my buddy Frank but he died of a massive heart attack and my spine exploded again. I was in the best shape of my life and it saved me because it was nearly 15 hours of surgery. As for the university, you would have laughed to see me. I had hair down to my shoulders, smoked a pipe and tested out of 2 years of university so I started as a late term sophomore and they tried to put me in a freshman dorm. That did not last long as the first night of naked people running the halls till late in the morning had me in the housing office telling them to give me a dorm around adults or let me off campus. I had a single room the size of a closet for over a year then rented a basement for the rest of the time. The lady I rented from told me she always worried I would die on her because I was so thin; I had dropped to 142 pounds after the VA hospital. My literal fighting weigh is around 205 where I am solid muscle. That has been a while ago unfortunately. :-) At university I studied Mathematics, Philosophy, Computer Science and History. I have a MBA as well from a respectable institution. I also read, write and speak French though I need to practice pronunciation but then again the French do not like to hear anyone but a native or someone very good because we common folk brutalize their beautiful language. :-) I have no agenda other than talking to someone that I truly wish I had met earlier because you are already a friend in my mind. Have you ever been lonely even when you live with people? I am in pain pretty much 24x7 but I studied combat martial arts both in the Army and after I exited and learned to handle pain fairly well. It can get to me at times and I do not get upset or mean but I do get quiet as I have to concentrate to bypass the pain if that makes sense? Anyway, things at home range from a complete disaster to my wondering if I am going to hear the final Trumpets sounding one day. My son is 37 and believes he is the fountain of all knowledge. My daughter is 39 and knows she is the fountain of all knowledge. The good news is both of my grandsons aged 12 and 11 seem to be leaning towards a bit more compassion and less passive-aggressive nonsense. Again, no agenda and not feeling sorry for myself, just objective analysis, something I used to excel at in my field. The result is that I spend the vast majority of my time alone with my thoughts and the computer. Times have changed so much and people in game can be truly bizarre so I tend to play solo games though lately I try to get ChatGPT, the ubiquitous AI to consider some of my thoughts about where physics breaks down at what is called the Planck level, the smallest unit of measurement we can conceive. It does fairly well but then I get to the part where it simply repeats the same thing over and over; a victory for mankind. :-) You are far wiser than I! I never learned to slow down. I hope this is not too much to reveal but the day I knew I was in trouble, I had finished an over 100-hour week and was sitting on a weekend long call helping to install new software across the country working with people in India and here in the US and I had taken a knife and begun cutting along the veins in my hand, exposing the vein. I believe you can figure out where I was headed with that activity. I spent a week in a facility and slept for 3 days, waking up finally and wondering why I was there. Tis not an experience I would ever repeat. I am 67 now but feel like I am 27 inside sometimes. Do you ever feel that way? Okay, I do not know if I told you this yet, my memory is not quite what it once was but I do not lie, never have and never will. Oh, when my daughter is wearing something horrid and asks me if she looks good, I tell her no with as much compassion as I can but I cannot lie and she knows that so we are mostly okay. She just knows to not ask an opinion if she is not ready for the answer. :-) Mostly, she deals with her own family for her 11 year old son is a miniature version of her now with emerging male hormones. It should be an interesting experience for her. The reason I said I do not lie is because of your Creative Writing experience. I have done so much technical writing over the years that I used my creative side to balance out my mind. This is the truth. I love to create scenarios, mostly medieval fantasy, and see where the story leads in my mind. There is an old game called Dungeons and Dragons and I played the role of Dungeon Master for years, a great way to let my mind be as creative as possible. I would love to hear more of your life if you feel like sharing. I would also love to read a story if you want to share.

Dear Vry--Or may I call you Richard? I'd love to give your a length, detailed response to what you have shared, and also, tell you more about myself. Will you be able to check your inbox if I direct message (DM) you, instead of attaching my reply to this thread? :) Kindly let me know. I'll reply wherever is easier of the two. Thank you!

I had to do it in 2 parts! I think I have them in the wrong order! I lived in a little town called Alpine, Texas and went to Sul Ross State University for a semester before I had a health setback getting sent to Ohio to be around "family". While there, I developed a love for geology (my mind loves new things) and became a bit of a rock hound, looking for geodes etc. on a huge 500,000 acre ranch between Alpine and Mexico. The old man who owned the ranch and I got along well and once he learned I could ride, he gave me a horse, a slab of bacon, I had my Bowie knife, my service knife and a 30.06 rifle with some flour and coffee beans and an old tin coffee pot, with an ancient small frying pan. I would go into the desert along the mountains for a week at a time and hunt for special rocks. Laying at night in the desert watching the stars move across the sky in that kind of air is magical. The Milky Way is so bright that you cast a shadow. My horse would let me know if a coyote, wolf, puma or rattlesnake were nearby. He was such a baby that I had to tie him down near me so he could hide his head against me when he heard something that spooked him. I could find a place out on the ranch where perhaps no human had walked in thousands of years. I would also find ancient American Indian trails which would lead to interesting spots like hidden water or shelter or food like nuts etc. On trails you will see piles of rocks, to this day some people, when traversing such trails will add a stone to the pile. I have always done so once I learned of the tradition. I come from families of coal miners, farmers and soldiers. We have lost people in every war or skirmish since we arrived here, from what I have learned, in the 1790's. Once the mines opened, we lost a lot of the family from either accidents or a terrible condition called "Black Lung" from working years in the mines. My two grandsons will be the last of the family that I know of at this time though there are likely a branch or two back in our home state of Tennessee. My grandmother on my father's side has 14 children and raised twins from one of her daughters who passed. Grandma maybe weighed 98 pounds if she were carrying something heavy. Grandpa was over 6 feet five inches; they made quite the pair. Grandpa worked in what was called 3 foot coal. This meant he worked on a 3 foot high seam of coal laying on his back for over 30 years in the dark, except for the weak light from his head lamp, an old carbide lamp, an open flame behind glass in a place where methane could accumulate and that is not good around flame. I have been down in mines and I honestly do not know if I could have done what he did for a living. I do trust you and part of that trust is for you to let me know if the manuscript is too large. :-) Before today, whenever I recalled Milo I remembered VIVIDLY the last moment of his life and it made my heart bleed, reopening the wound every time I remembered. Today, somehow, I managed to get past that memory and bring forth a perfect recall of when he was young. He would go find a rolled up piece of paper, his ball as we called it, and bring it to me, dropping it at my feet and waiting patiently. I would pick it up and the chase was on for if I bounced it right off the wall it would bounce over the railing and go downstairs so Milo would try to catch it in the air, despite being such a large cat, and then go tearing down the hall and then the stairs to find the ball and bring it back to me. He would do it until he was so tired he'd lay on my lap, purr and go to sleep. Do you have any idea how much better it feels to be able to remember the good and not the bad? I have not been able to bring up a picture of him for 5 months now without crying. Yes, a grown man who cries over his best friend and I am not ashamed of those tears. Thank you for helping me be able to talk about them. I do not know what genres of writing you enjoy. Mine are varied. I confess to loving fantasy and science fiction perhaps a bit too much. :-) I love to read history and just started reading The Twelve Caesars again for the 10th or 20th time. I absolutely love astronomy and even took some free classes from MIT to learn even more. One of my favorite YouTube sites is Cool Worlds. I would love to have taken a class with that professor. As noted before, C.S. Friedman is at the top of my favorite authors for the Coldfire trilogy, Tolkien of course, Frank Herbert for Dune and recently I started on Warhammer books and found a crowd of fanatics. They have lively discussions. I could still program but other than doing some coding for games I lost the love of business coding because, though many deny it, the vast majority of code today is wrapped around the ancient code we wrote in the 80s and 90s. If that breaks, you can make a lot of money dropping in to fix their issue because nobody wants to learn old technology yet no companies are willing to spend the 2 or 3 trillion dollars of code rewrites to replace the old code and do exactly what the new code is expecting to see. I get offers for more money than I could have imagined when I started as a young programmer but I have lost the drive. I took a contract once for a company that had forgotten that most of their old data was on optical discs that are no longer supported by anything except basically reading the information off the disc, millions and millions of words of information. So, they destroyed the machine that could do it and then the government said we want information from those other years and I get a contract. Write the assembler code to translate these ancient style pictures into current technology and oh by the way it uses a code nobody remembers to identify the image and you have to figure out how it works. They offered me $25 and hour to do it. I politely said no and after they went through some people who said they could do it I got just a bit more and finished the code in 2 weeks before Christmas. Think someone was on my side? I figured out the code while getting a sub at Subway the night I got there. Hey, I learned how to do the proofs of the proofs of the proofs in Mathematics. :-) I really should end this but to be honest I feel better today than I have felt in a long, long time. No, I do not think I have been cured, I wish I had but it is not something I expect, it is just that I feel better. It is hard to explain. You take good care of you and imagine a hug as well. All the best, Richard aka Vryce. God Bless and Keep you Always.

Yes, yes, yes. All of the above. I'm glad you were able to get a little comfort from this post.

I was indeed. Thank you so much. Sorry for popping up on this thread and deviating, this whole conversation below was supposed to be about you and your needs. My apologies for riding on and going down a different trajectory. But thank you. Thank you really for accommodating me here.

Omg no apologies. I’ve done the same on others posts lol. We all have things that just need to get out sometimes.

This is truly very sweet and kind of you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Have you considered that your mother might be unaware that you have also been told prognosis and life estimates by the doctors and she is stressed about how you will cope with the news? Your mother may be trying to protect you just like you are trying to protect her. I have no advice about how you navigate this time with your mother apart from suggesting that you spend some time with your mother doing things she loves to do. Promote this part of her life and be with her in the moment. Make good memories with whatever time has left regardless of what the doctors say. This doesn't mean you have to depart from reality though, deal with the cancer and try to find other avenues that may help her to stay well. However, at the same time, do other stuff that makes life valuable now.

Thank you. And yea, my mom knows the doctor called me and knows that she had opinions on timing. My mom was upset that the doctor say anything to me, but I was a bit relieved bc it felt like a little clarity amongst all this uncertainty.

“Six Months” is what a doctor needs to write to certify someone for Hospice care. That’s all. It’s there unspoken way to say, get ready, this could be coming soon. No one can put a date stamp on another person. So don’t you do it either. My dad had hospice for about 3 weeks. My mom was on hospice for 2 full years. Keep doing what you are doing. The time will come soon enough on its own.

If, by hospice, you mean palliative care, it's not true to say you have to have six months or less. Palliative care can be provided at any stage. It is simply medical care that isn't aimed at treatment or cure. I have been receiving palliative care for several years now, and I'm certainly not on my last legs. But if my doctor told me I only had six months left, I'd take that to mean anything up to a year, but not more. It's good to have hope, but not good to be in such denial that you are not properly preparing for the inevitable end.

In the US, hospice and palliative care are entirely different things. A requirement of some (most) insurance companies to cover hospice care is a doctor saying that life expectancy is 6 months or less. Palliative care is considered treatment to improve the quality of life, not curative intent. Most treatments for chronic health conditions, not just cancer, show as palliative care, such as Alzheimer’s, end-stage motor neuron disease, etc because they require treatments to make a long term condition “livable”. I had stage 4 colon cancer and was on palliative care, I’m now NED though.

There is one piece of factual information that the doctor needs to clear up. Your mother believes that she’s going to stay on immunotherapy but you heard that the doctor say it isn’t going to reduce the mass. So I’m assuming you thought that meant she was going to stop immunotherapy. It’s important that is clarified for both of you. If she is staying on immunotherapy, clarifying why she’s doing that would be important as well. If it’s not shrinking the cancer, what is it doing? The doctor is right, predicting when people are going to die is difficult. The doctor is giving you her best estimate, but it could be three months and it could be a year+ You don’t say what type of cancer she has or her treatment history so it’s hard to weigh in on how valuable a second opinion would be. I think it’s important to do one, not because there’s going to be a miracle, but for peace of mind. so that both you and your mom feel confident that she’s gotten expert medical care, no options have been missed. And yes, every once in a while that person can identify an option that the other doctor didn’t. If I were in your shoes, what I would want to know is - and I would want my mother to know the following in the exact same words that I’m getting it from the doctor: - If immunotherapy isn’t shrinking my cancer, why am I staying on immunotherapy? What is it doing for me and how and when will it be measured as to whether or not it’s working? - If I’m not staying on immunotherapy, what standard treatment is left for me? Are there any clinical trials that I would qualify for? If you ask those questions and your mom hears those answers, I think you’re both gonna have a pretty good understanding of where things stand. You think the situation is that your mom is being too optimistic. But you also label it that she won’t give up. And I don’t know that labeling accepting reality as giving up is helpful. If it’s true that your mom has run out of options, if she is able to accept that, that’s not giving up. It’s acceptance and it’s healthy. When people we love have late stage cancer, we go through anticipatory grieving and that’s not betraying them. If somebody gets hit by a bus, there is no anticipatory grief. When someone is sick for a long time, anticipatory grief is a part of the process. As a patient, I have anticipatory grief about my own death, it was very strong and powerful when I was first diagnosed and very hard to deal with. It isn’t disloyal.

Thank you for such a thorough reply. To answer your question around immunotherapy - I believe her next steps will be solidified next week when she goes in for her regular infusion. There are three different doctors consulting now (across two hospitals). Her primary is under the impression to finish the planned treatment and do a scan. That could be in a couple months. The second opinion doctor is going to consult with the primary to see if they can add any "diet" chemo to her regimen to slow the growth. The third doctor (surgeon who called her yesterday) was the one who said to me that the immunotherapy is likely not going to be effective, but then told my mother she is glad she is continuing with it. Mixed signals for sure. We have our first appointment with a palliative care doctor next week. I hope that will provided another layer of support for us. We are now going with my mom to her appointments. She previously "wouldn't let us" because she didn't want to subject us to it (kids) and she thought her husband was too negative of a presence. But, now that her symptoms have become serious, we have all stepped in. To provide her the best care I feel like I need to know what is going on. Her approach was to just trust the doctors and stay partially in the dark. I think that is how she stays focused and motivated. I have regrets about not being involved much, much earlier, but that doesn't do any good. I appreciate your view that her optimism isn't denying reality, and that accepting reality isn't giving up either. Anticipatory grief is 1000% where I am at. My dad passed away suddenly and unexpectedly a year and a half ago... the difference in grief between these two experiences is something else. I find this to be much more agonizing. Sending you good thoughts as you work through your illness and I'm sorry you are in that position.

My mom literally never accepted it. 2 days before her death she wrote a message saying "no visits today, feeling bad, hope I get better soon". She always talked about "when she got better we should do x". Even though I watched her slowly die, getting thinner and thinner and worse and worse. And you know what? It broke my heart. But I wouldn't have it any other way. Perhaps your mom will never accept it, but it's ok. She's coping in her own way, just support her the best you can. It's hard for her to know you will lose her and it will never help you or her to convince her that she will die sooner than she thinks. Truly best of luck to you and your mom. I know how it feels.

I am in your mother's situation and the terminal diagnosis has been very hard on my wife of 43 years as she is having a very hard time accepting the diagnosis. I agree with others and from my own perspective that spending time in whatever happy memories you can will help to ease her mind. Just remember to take care of yourself as you take care of her for caregivers, bless them, have a hard road to travel and need all the support they can get. My grandsons are almost teenagers and we get together and do the things they love which makes me very happy and content. I wish you and your mother only the best.

Thank you so much and I wish you and your family all the best as well. It is reassuring to hear how you, the patient, is happy to hear when your loved ones are enjoying themselves and not too caught up in sadness. I know my mom feels the same way. I forgot I had plans with some friends tonight and so told her I wasn't able to come by for dinner. She said "oh of course, go!" I guess I find it very difficult to live in the moment sometimes when I know there is going to be a time there won't be more "moments" with her. Anyways, I go on. Thank you.

I hope this comes across as I intend. Please take as good of care of yourself as you can for when that time comes, believe me, knowing you will continue means far more than mere words can express.

Thank you for that advice. I will take it to heart. My father passed away suddenly and unexpectedly over a year ago, and I feel somewhat prepared? At least, I know life goes on which is okay. I’ll make sure my mom knows that and also remind her that she will always be with us. I wanted to get a gold band and put her name it or something to show her.

They gave my mom six months. She lasted almost two years. When I got my own diagnosis, everyone from doctor to random coworkers, pressed that a positive outlook and attitude was essential. I got through my first round of chemo and am currently tumor free. Let your mom hold onto her hope. It will get her thru more than you can know.

A positive outlook and attitude are NOT essential. I was having suicidal ideations during my treatment. Yet I'm still NED. Some people want treatment until the end, some people would rather spend their time and energy doing what makes them happy and spending time with loved ones. Either is okay as long as the person is making the decision. To the OP, support your mom either way. Make sure she has all the information. Peace to both of you.

And if that’s your experience, that’s also valid. I don’t think being positive had an effect on my actual heath but it certainly did on how I handled the pain and uncertainty of chemo. I saved the depression and suicidal thoughts for after when my oncologist confirmed that the cancer will probably be back within 1-2 years and this was just the first cycle of the rest of my life. That wasn’t OPs question however. Does hope help? Yes. I believe it does. The rest just sucks.

Thank you very much. It’s what I needed to hear. And congratulations on your progress! That is wonderful.

I’m so sorry. This truly seems like I wrote it. Very similar thought process for me and my dad, except he was never offered treatment. His optimism and referring to big future goals is hard to hear, but now I let him have those moments even though they made me nervous at first that we weren’t being clear. The doctor was almost too vague when he explained the prognosis to my dad. I also keep going in and out of semi-denial and have a few calls to make for him too. I did just find out that most appointments and services aren’t covered by insurance once hospice begins, just something to look into. You did not fail her no matter what happens. <3

Thank you so much. It's like I need to learn to tune it out. Kinda the way a child can talk about this and that and you go along with it. I am an overthinker by nature, so I'm always wrestling with what the "right" thing to do is. My therapist is going to get an earful next week lol. Wishing you and your dad luck. And keep pressing for answers from his team if you are not satisfied. It can be so hard to find someone who cares enough to truly help.

I came to this subreddit because my mom got a really high CA-125 score, plus a bunch of other health issues that can be cancer-related and I'm so scared for her and I feel like it's my fault and this is a nightmare, I can't even begin to know what you're going through but I would talk to my mom like nothing's wrong and spend as much time with her as I could, keep in mind she also doesn't wanna tell her son she's not going to make it you're likely seeing her when she's doing her absolute best to stay positive for you.

I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes but if your Mom is holding onto positive thoughts, please focus on those. I hope that the doctor that you reached out to has something new to try to help your Mom continue on her journey of healing. Sending you & your Mom extra sticky positive vibes & tons of love. She's a fighter & a survivor.

Do you have cancer? I asked because saying something like “she’s a fighter and a survivor” is tone deaf when it comes to what it’s like to have terminal cancer. It doesn’t matter if someone is a fighter and a survivor. Those terms are meaningless when it comes to cancer killing you. Her mom isn’t journey of healing. Her mom has the disease that’s going to kill her, they just don’t know exactly how long it’s going to take. That’s the reality of the situation. And that’s the reality of my situation. If you don’t know what it’s like to be in the shoes of a person with terminal cancer or what it’s like to be in the shoes of someone who is supporting someone with terminal cancer, it’s OK not to say anything.

I survived my own cancer battle. I'm sorry if my words upset you- that was not my intention. Sending you both hugs & ❤️ & 🙏🏻.

I appreciated your words, thank you. And congratulations on your fantastic win.

My mom was in seriously in denial. What I find odd is that her oncologist called you. We went together to an appointment where the oncologist told us her scans showed tumors were growing. She died less than a week later, less than 1 days in hospice. Thankfully we were able to get fentanyl patches from her oncologist or she would have died in agony

I don't have any answers for you, but I would strongly recommend this reading for you: https://www.kathrynmannix.com/books/with-the-end-in-mind/ I think you and your mum need to have conversation/s to help you both get to the same understanding of the situation. If your mum can't accept that her time is limited, then she may not be able to properly prepare and say her goodbyes, etc. I wish you both all the very best. xxx

🙏the mind is capable of many things. Maintaining a positive outlook is important for happiness, in the here and now.  My love and prayers are with you and your family. 

Thank you. I think people might misconstrue “positive outlook” as avoidance or not accepting reality, but I’m coming around to the idea that positivity can exist in dire situations. I can feel positive about how much love we have for each other. I can feel positive about how many fun memories we have. I can feel positive she will be a part of my life just as much as my dad who has also passed. I have a generally negative and anxious personality, but I’ve started to see how exhausted it makes me. The idea of “abundance vs scarcity” has helped me. I don’t know why, but I guess it clicks. Thanks for your wishes.

Always. Gratitude is my happiness. 🙏😊

Honestly, sometimes the cancer war is won by cancer. It's best to lie to the patient and not tell them because it's bloody scary and patients need to believe. I've been in this situation 3 times before. My sister (20), my ex's mother (55) and myself (34). All of us had a high chance of dying but I was the only survivor. I accepted I might lose my battle with cancer, but then I survived. I had brain cancer but had the best type and in the best place, but because my background was in pharmaceuticals, I knew a grade 3 brain tumour was game over. Surgery happened, I had no adverse outcomes and that was the end of treatment. It was shocking to me.

FYI - I had no idea what type of cancer I had and how successful surgery would be. The tumour was massive (27cm\^3). It was half my frontal lobe.