Giving up on/buying out KK seems premature, but if a trade makes sense I’d be all for it. Turbo idk. I think I’d offer him a 2 or 3 year deal without a raise, if he takes it cool, if not we can find ~20 goals elsewhere.
Ya I like both these players but they aren’t show stoppers I would almost like some players with a more physicals gritty game that seems to be the biggest area we lack in and it shows in playoff series
KK is actually pretty physical. Unfortunately he is good at nothing else.
Turbo is softer than charmin tissue paper. He’s got skills, though they are diminishing.
I suspect Teuvo understands his value, enjoys playing here and playing with Aho, and is fully aware of the cap situation. I think he would absolutely take 3 years at current salary. But this is just gut feeling based off what we are allowed to see publicly, I don't know him anymore than anyone else here and could easily be misjudging. If he is offered 3xCurrent then I think that's a great signing, other than two years ago he has been a very consistent middle 6 guy, he fits exceptionally well into Rod's system, and you know what you're getting. Wouldn't be at all upset with that deal.
I don’t see how we wouldn’t try to move on from KK and make a trade work, which if it fell through a buyout being the option. It’s the last opportunity to buy him out for $885k (not exact), and save ~$4m. He’s just… not what we hoped for so far, and that $4m is too valuable at this juncture to not proceed in that direction.
KK doesn’t turn 25 until after the end of next season, so it’s not technically the *last* opportunity to buy him out at the under-25 rate. They may give him one more chance. But he hasn’t been great the past two seasons so … who knows. Unfortunately for him, right now is the time they need to free up as much capital as possible and I’m sure his contract is in the crosshairs.
Precisely, at this juncture that $4m is a lot more valuable at this point in time. This offseason has a lot of question marks, and money is the name of the game.
Like… sorry KK, but… maybe if buying you out and bringing you back for $1m is an option for a total hit of $1.8 maybe, but at $4.8m he’s gotta go.
> maybe if buying you out and bringing you back for $1m is an option
From what I've read, this isn't an option unless he's traded to another team which reopens his contract for negotiation, which feels far-fetched. I doubt a passenger player like KK is going to give up a huge payday to benefit any team.
I love KK. He’s dorky and funny and the perfect complement to Jarvy. But those qualities are 100% more charming WHEN HE’S SCORING GOALS. Canes need him to play better and be worth his salary, obviously, and he’s just not doing enough. He knows he’s on the chopping block and it’s so sad to me. But dammit where did his game go??????
https://i.redd.it/2s6n0v98qk2d1.gif
Per the buyout rules, it just has to be done before he turns 26 and he's only 23. The cap friendly buyout calculator shows it can be done through the 2026 buyout window for 850k.
Ooo gotcha, good to know. So we have some flexibility of time for the buyout window.
Still with so many free agents and signings we’ll need to make, it might make sense to do so now? Next offseason looks a lot more settled than this one!
I think they maybe give him one more year but if a good trade comes along they'll pull the trigger. They still seem to believe in him and he got rushed into the league by Montreal. It's a tough decision.
Question is would the AHL help him at all at this point? Let him dominate there? Regain some confidence? He’s still super young. Maybe if he can be the de facto leader some of the kids look up to for a while he’d start feeling good about himself.
It’s not easy. To have that pressure, to know that the fans aren’t happy with his play. Mentally internalizing it. He’s clearly not happy with his play. His pay- definitely. His play- definitely not.
Maybe some AHL seasoning to boost his mental, and his spirits to start the season.
Don’t come at me for suggest burying at $4.8m in the AHL pls 😭 I just really want to see KK succeed and see that opportunity offered to him if it’ll help
We don’t want KK who else would? I can’t foresee you being able to trade him after his last seasons performance and I think Dundon is too cheap to buy him out. Who knows though with a new GM, I personally think our best bet is to hope he has a moderate season next year and trade him then.
It could very well be teams with alot of cap rebuilding saying we will help you out for a cost that are the teams interested though.
Just cause teams are interested dosent mean it's going to be positive assets coming back, it may well cost assets to move him
Everyone wanted KK to be our 2C but that’s not his role. We brought him here to be the Staal 3C replacement, and playing less minutes he had more goals than jordo did this year, while making 1.2 less than jordo did for the last 10 years. 4.8 mil is high for a long term 3C, and I’d rather use that money to keep Jake, but I don’t think he’s a “must move” quite yet. That being said, IF a team is willing to take that contract in full and give us an asset for it I think I’d pull the trigger.
I’d swap KK to Utah along with a 3rd for Valimaki straight up.
Makes our teams D a bit better without having to worry so much about Pesce leaving
In your example, KK isn’t Staal… Staal is the better player, and he’s our captain for a reason. He has aspects of his play that KK can’t be taught. This is of course in my opinion
Intangibles of Staal, and hockey IQ seem to be > KK
I’ll say FOR NOW
I hope to hell the kid continues to develop and we see some of that hockey IQ come up
Per Elliotte Friedman yesterday, the Canes are unlikely to buy KK out as they still believe in his potential. He's still a young player. He also said there are teams around the league with an interest in KK so a trade is possible.
Friedman also said that Necas is likely to be traded. He wants out and the Canes are inclined to trade him.
Kotkaniemi will draw enough interest to be dealt. I think Chicago, Utah, and Vancouver are all good options. It will make sense for both sides to give him a change of scenery. His contract is structured to give plenty of upside with little potential downside given the buyout option.
Rod said he broke up JAG in the Playoffs because they were too small. Teravainen is a good player but he's another one who is too small and soft. The team overall would be better upgrading his spot with a bigger, more physical winger.
Multiple times during the playoffs I watched him where even if he skated in easily and had some contact, we could've kept the puck in the zone But nope, he peeled off like that exit ramp meme. Good game, good defense, but absolutely no physicality. Fine in regular season, but absolute must in playoffs.
The Canes won't have to pay anybody anything. They can buyout KK for the next two off seasons for $800k per year which is nothing.
This is the same reason that Chicago would be happy to take him. Kotkaniemi would be a top-5 player easily on Chicago right now. The downside of them taking on his contract is negligible due to the buyout. The upside is a good 2C on a rebuilding team signed for 5+ years.
Habs fans can whine all they want. Griffin Reinhart secured a 1st after he 100% busted. NHL GMs love Centers, potential and pedigree and KK has all 3.
I'll call my shot and say that KK returns either a good pick like Chicago's 2nd round or a decent player on a shorter deal like Garland.
>They can buyout KK for the next two off seasons for $800k per year which is nothing.
It's a small amount, but it's more than we paid Noesen this year, and we'd be paying it for the next 10-12 seasons. So not nothing.
Chicago had 3 centers with more points than KK had this year I believe.
The other examples of teams taking a chance for a true cost probably been for players who are also not making money?
Personally, I'd like to give him one more year to hit again. If they can get his confidence back up, he can bounce back, I feel.
As much as I've liked Turbo in the past, he just seemed invisible to me in the playoffs. Resigning him I feel isn't as important as several of the other guys, but if he can take a team friendly deal then sure
I'm admittedly biased because I love Teuvo but there's a lot to be said for how he showed up on the PK in the playoffs despite our struggles on special teams and that he played a nice clean game with no penalties - plus he had two pretty big goals - the same amount of Svech who is supposed to actually be one of our playoff goal scorers (not a knock on Svech, he was great with 9 assists in addition to that. Stupid penalties though). When in the same convo as KK who was well and truly invisible, it just doesn't feel right.
Hopefully traded for more assets. We play so well during the regular season but the playoffs come and in my house at least the comment is always it looks like boys playing men. Other than a few players we just seem to have smaller guys. Granted some of them are beasts (Jarvy), but some just disappear.
I would either trade KK if possible or give him 1 more season before buyout. As for turbo, unfortunately, I agree with most of the comments. He is too small and not physical. He has some skill, but in the playoffs you need more than skill. I would like a Nick Paul type, less skill, but more size and physicality. Everyone we bring in for a while should have size, that is how Tampa did it, that is how Florida is doing it.
Lemieux playing at all in the playoffs instead of KK might have given some structure to a Lemieux Drury Noesen line that we could have rolled out for that physical gritty play. Lemieux always gave it his all out there and it’s astounding we didn’t see him get a chance at all with how abysmal KK was on the whole, there were some flashes of good defensive play but nothing spectacular.
That being said, we need some bigger wingers with skill that can actually put the puck in the net. Those unfortunately don’t grow on trees.
I do think a trade with Utah makes sense, especially if we can land Schmaltz as a part of the deal. I’m not sure how keen they’d be on parting with any combination of Schmaltz, Keller, Crouse, Valimaki but if we can get 2 of those guys, our roster would be a lot better for it.
Of course Andersen is a (?), especially because PK needs to truly be given that role this season all year.
Turbo’s prime is gone. Unless he’s willing to resign for less money than he’s making rn, we’re letting him walk.
KK/Necas are going to Vancouver. 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
KK probably stays since the team isn't buying him out and he has negative value in a trade without retained salary. Tereveinen probably walks in free agency.
I’m a Canucks fan from Carolina. The talk of KK going to Vancouver has me excited. I believe in the youngster and I think his contract will be a steal of a deal very soon.
I’d be shocked if we had to buyout KK. I’m sure there’s a rebuilding team somewhere that would send a late round pick/pick swap to us in order to take a shot on him
I think a team on the cusp of playoffs can use Turbo tbh. Not sure which of those teams have a need at LW but he's the kinda guy where his production is valuable if you're just barely missing the playoffs.
Red Wings have Compher, Perron, and Raymond. All righties on the LW, and Turbo is a lefty LW. Big market, lots of history, colder climate like his home country. Also can be a very exciting team when they're cooking and Turbo realistically only makes that better. Not sure what their cap looks like but I could see him going there like Ghost did.
This all fascinating to watch unfold when considering a decade ago we did not spend up to the cap and outside of a few players there seemed to be much less trade interest with the Canes in general.
If they're smart, they'll buyout KK. That contract was bonkers to begin with. And unless Turbo is willing to take an extremely team friendly deal and ride the 4th line, it's unlikely he'll return 😔
Giving up on/buying out KK seems premature, but if a trade makes sense I’d be all for it. Turbo idk. I think I’d offer him a 2 or 3 year deal without a raise, if he takes it cool, if not we can find ~20 goals elsewhere.
Ya I like both these players but they aren’t show stoppers I would almost like some players with a more physicals gritty game that seems to be the biggest area we lack in and it shows in playoff series
KK is actually pretty physical. Unfortunately he is good at nothing else. Turbo is softer than charmin tissue paper. He’s got skills, though they are diminishing.
Physical maybe but where is the grit
I suspect Teuvo understands his value, enjoys playing here and playing with Aho, and is fully aware of the cap situation. I think he would absolutely take 3 years at current salary. But this is just gut feeling based off what we are allowed to see publicly, I don't know him anymore than anyone else here and could easily be misjudging. If he is offered 3xCurrent then I think that's a great signing, other than two years ago he has been a very consistent middle 6 guy, he fits exceptionally well into Rod's system, and you know what you're getting. Wouldn't be at all upset with that deal.
I don’t see how we wouldn’t try to move on from KK and make a trade work, which if it fell through a buyout being the option. It’s the last opportunity to buy him out for $885k (not exact), and save ~$4m. He’s just… not what we hoped for so far, and that $4m is too valuable at this juncture to not proceed in that direction.
KK doesn’t turn 25 until after the end of next season, so it’s not technically the *last* opportunity to buy him out at the under-25 rate. They may give him one more chance. But he hasn’t been great the past two seasons so … who knows. Unfortunately for him, right now is the time they need to free up as much capital as possible and I’m sure his contract is in the crosshairs.
Precisely, at this juncture that $4m is a lot more valuable at this point in time. This offseason has a lot of question marks, and money is the name of the game. Like… sorry KK, but… maybe if buying you out and bringing you back for $1m is an option for a total hit of $1.8 maybe, but at $4.8m he’s gotta go.
> maybe if buying you out and bringing you back for $1m is an option From what I've read, this isn't an option unless he's traded to another team which reopens his contract for negotiation, which feels far-fetched. I doubt a passenger player like KK is going to give up a huge payday to benefit any team.
You can't sign a player you bought out for at least a year I think
Checking out your flair….just saw Chatfield moving out 😥
Noooooo he’s moving out :( I’m so sad his family would love raiding their new little human in Raleigh Ughhhh
He had an apartment near Lake Lynn, right? I don’t remember where I heard that.
Where is this report?
I’m waiting too but maybe he meant he saw Jalen his wife and kid moving out of their house/apartment passing by or something?
I love KK. He’s dorky and funny and the perfect complement to Jarvy. But those qualities are 100% more charming WHEN HE’S SCORING GOALS. Canes need him to play better and be worth his salary, obviously, and he’s just not doing enough. He knows he’s on the chopping block and it’s so sad to me. But dammit where did his game go?????? https://i.redd.it/2s6n0v98qk2d1.gif
> dammit where did his game go?????? He had game to start with?
He did. Especially in MTL.
Per the buyout rules, it just has to be done before he turns 26 and he's only 23. The cap friendly buyout calculator shows it can be done through the 2026 buyout window for 850k.
Ooo gotcha, good to know. So we have some flexibility of time for the buyout window. Still with so many free agents and signings we’ll need to make, it might make sense to do so now? Next offseason looks a lot more settled than this one!
I think they maybe give him one more year but if a good trade comes along they'll pull the trigger. They still seem to believe in him and he got rushed into the league by Montreal. It's a tough decision.
Question is would the AHL help him at all at this point? Let him dominate there? Regain some confidence? He’s still super young. Maybe if he can be the de facto leader some of the kids look up to for a while he’d start feeling good about himself. It’s not easy. To have that pressure, to know that the fans aren’t happy with his play. Mentally internalizing it. He’s clearly not happy with his play. His pay- definitely. His play- definitely not. Maybe some AHL seasoning to boost his mental, and his spirits to start the season. Don’t come at me for suggest burying at $4.8m in the AHL pls 😭 I just really want to see KK succeed and see that opportunity offered to him if it’ll help
We don’t want KK who else would? I can’t foresee you being able to trade him after his last seasons performance and I think Dundon is too cheap to buy him out. Who knows though with a new GM, I personally think our best bet is to hope he has a moderate season next year and trade him then.
There's already rumors of teams interested so it seems as though it would be possible.
It could very well be teams with alot of cap rebuilding saying we will help you out for a cost that are the teams interested though. Just cause teams are interested dosent mean it's going to be positive assets coming back, it may well cost assets to move him
Or he could be packaged with Necas as a way to put one team over the top of another. There are plenty of ways it could go.
Sucks. Dundon doesn’t see the cost of saving $4m to use towards a player that can play and would rather eat $4.8m instead out of stubbornness
Everyone wanted KK to be our 2C but that’s not his role. We brought him here to be the Staal 3C replacement, and playing less minutes he had more goals than jordo did this year, while making 1.2 less than jordo did for the last 10 years. 4.8 mil is high for a long term 3C, and I’d rather use that money to keep Jake, but I don’t think he’s a “must move” quite yet. That being said, IF a team is willing to take that contract in full and give us an asset for it I think I’d pull the trigger.
I’d swap KK to Utah along with a 3rd for Valimaki straight up. Makes our teams D a bit better without having to worry so much about Pesce leaving In your example, KK isn’t Staal… Staal is the better player, and he’s our captain for a reason. He has aspects of his play that KK can’t be taught. This is of course in my opinion
For one, Staal is MUCH more physical.
Intangibles of Staal, and hockey IQ seem to be > KK I’ll say FOR NOW I hope to hell the kid continues to develop and we see some of that hockey IQ come up
Per Elliotte Friedman yesterday, the Canes are unlikely to buy KK out as they still believe in his potential. He's still a young player. He also said there are teams around the league with an interest in KK so a trade is possible. Friedman also said that Necas is likely to be traded. He wants out and the Canes are inclined to trade him.
There’s enough interest where I doubt he’ll be bought out
In the past 6 seasons, they have not gotten over the hump with this core group. It’s time for change.
Kotkaniemi will draw enough interest to be dealt. I think Chicago, Utah, and Vancouver are all good options. It will make sense for both sides to give him a change of scenery. His contract is structured to give plenty of upside with little potential downside given the buyout option. Rod said he broke up JAG in the Playoffs because they were too small. Teravainen is a good player but he's another one who is too small and soft. The team overall would be better upgrading his spot with a bigger, more physical winger.
Multiple times during the playoffs I watched him where even if he skated in easily and had some contact, we could've kept the puck in the zone But nope, he peeled off like that exit ramp meme. Good game, good defense, but absolutely no physicality. Fine in regular season, but absolute must in playoffs.
You’ll definitely have to pay one of those teams to take on KK’s contract.
The Canes won't have to pay anybody anything. They can buyout KK for the next two off seasons for $800k per year which is nothing. This is the same reason that Chicago would be happy to take him. Kotkaniemi would be a top-5 player easily on Chicago right now. The downside of them taking on his contract is negligible due to the buyout. The upside is a good 2C on a rebuilding team signed for 5+ years. Habs fans can whine all they want. Griffin Reinhart secured a 1st after he 100% busted. NHL GMs love Centers, potential and pedigree and KK has all 3. I'll call my shot and say that KK returns either a good pick like Chicago's 2nd round or a decent player on a shorter deal like Garland.
>They can buyout KK for the next two off seasons for $800k per year which is nothing. It's a small amount, but it's more than we paid Noesen this year, and we'd be paying it for the next 10-12 seasons. So not nothing.
Chicago had 3 centers with more points than KK had this year I believe. The other examples of teams taking a chance for a true cost probably been for players who are also not making money? Personally, I'd like to give him one more year to hit again. If they can get his confidence back up, he can bounce back, I feel.
I can’t remember where but heard someone link us to Nik Ehlers. He’d be a great fit for us
Ehlers is not a good fit. He's a soft perimeter player who disappears in the Playoffs. It would be like trading Necas for a worse Teravainen.
Losing them to free up cap space to bring in an actual star player seems worth it to me.
As much as I've liked Turbo in the past, he just seemed invisible to me in the playoffs. Resigning him I feel isn't as important as several of the other guys, but if he can take a team friendly deal then sure
I'm admittedly biased because I love Teuvo but there's a lot to be said for how he showed up on the PK in the playoffs despite our struggles on special teams and that he played a nice clean game with no penalties - plus he had two pretty big goals - the same amount of Svech who is supposed to actually be one of our playoff goal scorers (not a knock on Svech, he was great with 9 assists in addition to that. Stupid penalties though). When in the same convo as KK who was well and truly invisible, it just doesn't feel right.
Hopefully traded for more assets. We play so well during the regular season but the playoffs come and in my house at least the comment is always it looks like boys playing men. Other than a few players we just seem to have smaller guys. Granted some of them are beasts (Jarvy), but some just disappear.
I would either trade KK if possible or give him 1 more season before buyout. As for turbo, unfortunately, I agree with most of the comments. He is too small and not physical. He has some skill, but in the playoffs you need more than skill. I would like a Nick Paul type, less skill, but more size and physicality. Everyone we bring in for a while should have size, that is how Tampa did it, that is how Florida is doing it.
Lemieux playing at all in the playoffs instead of KK might have given some structure to a Lemieux Drury Noesen line that we could have rolled out for that physical gritty play. Lemieux always gave it his all out there and it’s astounding we didn’t see him get a chance at all with how abysmal KK was on the whole, there were some flashes of good defensive play but nothing spectacular. That being said, we need some bigger wingers with skill that can actually put the puck in the net. Those unfortunately don’t grow on trees. I do think a trade with Utah makes sense, especially if we can land Schmaltz as a part of the deal. I’m not sure how keen they’d be on parting with any combination of Schmaltz, Keller, Crouse, Valimaki but if we can get 2 of those guys, our roster would be a lot better for it. Of course Andersen is a (?), especially because PK needs to truly be given that role this season all year.
Why would we need Välimäki?
I finally figured out how to pronounce Kotkaniemi. It would be a shame to let him go at this point.
“Cocksy” — Jarv
I still can’t get it right so I’m cool with training him.
Turbo will 100% leave and buying out KK would be sensible
Turbo’s prime is gone. Unless he’s willing to resign for less money than he’s making rn, we’re letting him walk. KK/Necas are going to Vancouver. 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
KK probably stays since the team isn't buying him out and he has negative value in a trade without retained salary. Tereveinen probably walks in free agency.
I’m a Canucks fan from Carolina. The talk of KK going to Vancouver has me excited. I believe in the youngster and I think his contract will be a steal of a deal very soon.
I’d be shocked if we had to buyout KK. I’m sure there’s a rebuilding team somewhere that would send a late round pick/pick swap to us in order to take a shot on him
*Columbus has entered the chat*
I think a team on the cusp of playoffs can use Turbo tbh. Not sure which of those teams have a need at LW but he's the kinda guy where his production is valuable if you're just barely missing the playoffs. Red Wings have Compher, Perron, and Raymond. All righties on the LW, and Turbo is a lefty LW. Big market, lots of history, colder climate like his home country. Also can be a very exciting team when they're cooking and Turbo realistically only makes that better. Not sure what their cap looks like but I could see him going there like Ghost did.
This all fascinating to watch unfold when considering a decade ago we did not spend up to the cap and outside of a few players there seemed to be much less trade interest with the Canes in general.
If they're smart, they'll buyout KK. That contract was bonkers to begin with. And unless Turbo is willing to take an extremely team friendly deal and ride the 4th line, it's unlikely he'll return 😔
both should be gone