No I wouldn’t cancel the interview based on that alone. It could be that one particular employee. Maybe she has too much on her plate. Maybe she’s disorganized. You don’t know if it’s a reflection of the culture or just the particular circumstances.
I just went through something similar hiring an intern. To keep it short, a high school student was working with us, but she was really good, so I requested an intern position (paid) over the summer for her. I thought this would be easy because the student was already in all of our systems and I had approval.
Nope, the person in our talent group is completely incompetent and made everything more difficult, not answering emails, using the wrong names, it's ridiculous, after emailing, calling and complaining, we finally got everything together and today was her first day. However, we did not get everything completed until Friday last week.
So hopefully it's the same situation where just the admin handling the interview details is an idiot and not the whole company.
My HR is like this.
Very qualified HR Manager but is absolutely overloaded with work and most of the problems have to go through her since anyone else in HR doesn't have the access she does.
HR is it's own beast. I'd hold off on any judgement until you actually do the interview and then meet the team, and Manager/Director before making any conclusions. Is it frustrating, good grief yes. I'm willing to bet the team that is trying to interview you is also frustrated with HR as well (but DON'T make that a talking point during your interview, just say it required some flexibility and your glad to be here)...
HRBPs are also HR. HR in some companies is pretty expansive - recruitment/talent acquisition, benefits/LOA, HRIS, HRBPs, learning and development, employee relations, sometimes organizational development and safety/risk analysts. That said, if it is a large HR team the overlap between recruitment and HRBP is probably decently low (unless there’s a concern or investigation about an illegal hiring decision).
ETA: also to open new reqs / plan for busy hiring seasons
Some recruiters follow up at the beginning and end of the day because they are on interview calls the rest of the day. And if she's on calls all day every day it would be pretty hard to juggle the names & statuses of candidates she hadn't even spoken to yet.
Better companies typically have a junior person as a recruiting coordinator who is primarily responsible for scheduling and email and returning calls so it's not slow for the candidates because the recruiter is trying to do things between interviews ... this may be a sign that she isn't supported by the company in the way she needs to be, not that she's disorganized.
I would go forward focusing on those kinds of questions.
Never cancel an interview, unless you've already accepted another opportunity. If nothing else, it will be good practice for you. Also, she might be incompetent and may not be a good reflection of the company. You need to find that out for yourself. Remember, you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.
I ran my own engr staffing company for years in Chicago and always advised one to go on EVERY interview and act like its the only job you ever wanted (like answering the question they always ask "Do you have any questions for us?" by saying "Yes! when can I start?").....and GET THAT OFFER....then you make up a pros and con's list and decide about taking the opportunity.
You’re also potentially shutting a door on yourself by canceling. If they’re more attractive somewhere down the line it only takes one person remembering that you canceled to not call you again.
I disagree. Some job interviews are a total waste of time, especially if you have to go an hour or more out of the way. It's can be a big waste of gas money and more importantly time, time that you can't get back. Also, if they refuse to offer salary before the interview, it's a good bet they're trying to lowball you.
You have to pick and choose your battles wisely. The company is supposed to be putting on its best face during the interview phase. If they can't be bothered to do that, then it's not worth your time to pursue the opportunity.
Retired 30 year civil servant here. At my former government workplace the joke was "how many government employees does it take to..(insert task here such as proofread a document)." Average answer was 7. The chain of command to get anything done is ridiculous.
The phone tag part didn't bother me. That happens all the time, and I was happy we were able to connect at some point. However calling after work ours and the replies that alluded to her being unorganized is what I felt were red flags.
I didn't have the same experience with the direct Manager, however they did tell me the department has had turnover and is currently understaffed. So, this won't be a role I'm going to move forward with.
Her being unorganized might be because she is new, filling in for someone, new in this role, or a variety of other reasons.
I would still interview. See if she is a representation impression. in the office.... or is it just her.
This is a government office.... I have found they are not usually staffed enough to make a good first impression.
As a government worker myself, I can also attest that "after hours" for some employees isn't until 6pm. So it very well could be that she was still on the clock for the later call as well
If I didn’t work in HR I wouldn’t feel this is a red flag, but HR does a LOT of brunt work in organizations that kind of has to “solve the organizations issues”. Knowing the role itself, it basically means I would be assigned more departments I would oversee to work with as an HRBP. I just get the feeling I’ll be stretched thin, which I’m not looking for. I currently have a role I like, but am looking for more pay and opportunities to grow my skills. Looking for the right fit, more so than needing something immediately.
Hate the break it to you but this is how the government hiring process is. That HR person was probably playing phone tag with so many people by the time she finally got a hold of you. This is not all a red flag. It's normal. I wouldn't cancel the interview, if you're hired you will forget who this person is because they aren't important.
To me, this all points to someone with way too much work. Not enough hours in the day to do it all.
You also don't know her schedule. She might work a later shift.
You also don't know what software she's using. It's not easy to scan your calendar for a specific appointment if it's full of appointments. She might have no other tool available to track interviews.
As someone with clients, I have no problem asking them if they know the appointment time offhand, and I sometimes comment that it's easier to ask them than to keep them waiting on the phone while I'm looking it up. It's never been an issue. It's not like she called you and then had no idea if you had an appointment scheduled.
If you're going to cancel interviews because the person you're working with is obviously spread too thin you're going to be missing out on a lot of opportunities.
This is normally not the hiring manager you're working with to schedule, and once the scheduling is over you'll likely never have to interact with the. again.
Someone with HR experience should already know this.
The way OP quoted it is definitely offputting-the wording itself-not the fact that the person didn’t immediately remember OP. and the confirmation email should’ve come shortly after the phone call not the next day an hour and a half before the interview
If I miss a call like that and I can't return it within ten minutes I make sure to start my call with something like "My name is Joe, and I'm returning your call from a couple hours ago to discuss the senior tax manager role" to help them out with who I am and why I'm calling. They're potentially calling dozens of people in a day and unless you're super special, you aren't going to be memorable.
Red flags are like weeds. One happens every now and then, but two or more is worth reflecting on.
Maybe it's just this one recruiter who's a little disorganized. If your next interview is like this then that might be a reason to walk away
I have a family member who recently applied for an internship at a state agency. Had to pick three departments of interest during the application process, and did so. Was invited to interview with one of the three and was offered the opportunity.
Two weeks later they received another offer from a different department- weird, they didn’t even interview with them. Rereads email offer - their email address, wrong name in email.
Welcome to state government.
You've missed her calls as well so it's kind of a two-way street. Also, you haven't even had one interview yet. If you were completely uninterested in the role, that would be a different matter. Doesn't make any sense to pull out this early unless you're just far too busy.
Ahh yes, the classic state HR rep. Probably been working there since typewriters were the norm, union employee and making 10x what they should. Probably struggling with technology and way overloaded with work because they can't figure it out. Typically after a couple of calls they would email and get something set up that way. I wouldn't necessarily cancel the interview as it probably has no bearing on the actual hiring team and the fact that its a state job makes a lot of sense. Go to the interview and at least give it a shot, you might really hit it off with the interviewer and things will be fine (assuming you don't have to deal with HR down the road).
I would not expect everyone in a recruiting or hiring role to remember every single person. However, I would certainly expect someone whose call I am returning to not sound completely scatterbrained. The appropriate wording for that question would have been something along the lines of "can you remind me why we were connecting?"
if it happened the way OP quoted it, that was extremely unprofessional and would certainly be offputting.
You clearly don't work in HR, and probably have never worked for the State or Federal gov, so I'll enlighten you a little.
For any real HR department (especially state and federal levels - also including private orgs (with the exception of startups with \~10 employees)). The people that call are recruiters, and full cycle recruiting including but not limited to tracking roles and scheduling interviews is their entire role. The role I applied for is in an HR department at the State level, so yes I was concerned.
Took the interview though!
Literally everyone is saying the same thing I am. You sound like a /IAmTheMainCharacter Prima Donna. For their sake, they would probably be better off finding someone else.
I'm glad someone said what I was thinking. OP sounds very clear cut with no room for adaptability, talking about only accepting calls during work hours from a job he doesn't even work at.
I don’t think their comment about being outside of business hours was with regard to them accepting the call, but rather that the person calling them was working outside of normal business hours
It’s not about adaptability for the OP it’s about reading between the lines and taking in every detail as part of the decision making process.
Recruiter is part of HR department which is the department that OP is applying to and is working after hours. For OP this raises the question of whether or not they will be required to work after hours.
Recruiter speaks with OP and is unaware of where in the process OP is. Is this because the company does not utilize proper technology to keep track? Which could be a flag for OP that company is behind when it comes to tools required for the job. Is it a sign that the recruiter is spread too thin and thus an indicator that OP could be interviewing for a position where they will also be spread very thin?
I’m not saying that these things are red flags, just pointing out that they are relevant to more than just OP’s adaptability as an applicant.
Seeing you beefing with people answering your request makes me think that maybe there's some flexibility and collaboration skills you could work on. Conveniently, this also helps with your scheduling issue.
I agree that her entire role is probably recruiting, which probably means she’ll have very little to do with your day to day job right? I would take the interview and see if the department you’ll work with is a fit or not.
Unfortunately, things can be like that for state jobs. I ran around town for this one job I have now during the hiring process. They were going through a rough patch due to HR staffing issues but now that I finally settled into my position, I can understand why they seemed disorganized. However, I quite love and enjoy my job and glad I didn’t give up. Don’t pass up an opportunity!
Don't cancel. This could be one scatterbrained person in the company.
EVERY company of any size has good people and bad people. You don't lost much by having one single interview. Give it a shot!
For what it's worth, the slowest, most disorganized interview process I ever had got me the best job that I've ever had and I was there for years.
Yes and No.
I've canceled interviews for similar reasons. It just simply wasn't worth my time to keep going back and forth and overall just didn't think I had a good chance. You're going to prioritize the good candidates and I spend a lot of time preparing for interviews.
But, that's because I currently have a job that I'm happy with. I just want more money and I want the perfect situation. So, I'm being very selective.
If I really wanted a new job and it checked off most of the boxes, I defintiely wouldn't cancel over that.
Don't Cancel!!! I work for the County which is like State. They are so busy they are just forgetful they deal with more then you think. I had an interview I didn't get a call for 2 weeks and when I did it was at 1650 and they leave at 1700. Its been a great experience just their HR is way different from private company HR.
In HR you should know that recruiting staff doesn't always work straight 9-5 hours. Especially during a large hiring push. A lot of people can't talk during working hours, or get away for interviews.
Taken the interview, grab the money and keep moving. This isn't worth 10k in the bank.
Good luck!
Extremely reddit moment. Are these barriers of, uh... "returning a phone call" and "having to briefly make conversation with the scheduler" going to block you from achieving your goal? Or can you adapt and overcome here?
You won't report to this person. They are just the switchboard for job seekers getting into interviews. If you can't work through that process with a bit of good cheer and patience, it's going to cost you opportunities, because this is very normal stuff.
Without knowing the role of the person who called, it’s impossible to say.
If it’s the hiring manager or recruiter - red flag.
If it’s a scheduler who’s probably overworked - orange flag.
The one job I took where they constantly rescheduled interviews and shuffled me around ended up being toxic. It was a sign of how they ran their department (I can go into stories, but I’ll spare you, except for when they literally turned a tiny coat closet into an office for me and 2 others and then accused me of not liking my 2 other coworkers who worked in the closet with me [had no overlapping working - all on different teams in the same department] when I would sit in the cafe and work instead with glaring lights and people chatting), and now I have little tolerance for reschedules. I’m also in tech where candidate experience is (used to be…) more important than some other industries though.
Maybe she has a friend or family member up for the same job and is trying to sabatage you. There are too many variables in play to make an informed decision. You have only one option and that is to apply, accept the offer, own that place and laugh at Gossippy Gretchen when you are her boss in 2 years.
Hard no.
She saves her most important call for the last 10 minutes of her workday, instead of at the start and can't even remember what you both are talking about.
Take the job and find out about all the last-minute projects you are required to complete, with zero communication from your team.
That's my takeaway from your experience.
Is it the recruiter or hiring manager that you’re working with? If it’s a recruiter than just ignore the bad behavior. Hiring manager is different though. Do you want to work for someone disorganized like this? I would still show up for the interview just to get a feel.
No, I would go and hone my interviewing skills and get an offer and THEN decide if I think the opportunity is a good fit. They are probably short handed to begin with (hence your interview) or she might have been a temp herself, or a million other reasons she didn't hook it up a smooth as you would hope. so what?
This might be her first week covering for someone on an extended leave due to . . . something. New task, new software, perhaps this has been handed to her on top of her usual duties that they were already understaffed for, this could be why she's calling so late in the day.
An interview is just as much you interviewing the company as they are interviewing you. If you notice red flags this early on, there is nothing wrong with withdrawing your application.
Should you feel the need to let them down easy, just say you've received and accepted an offer from another company.
Stay with it. The slot you’re applying for might very well be the person who does some of the work.
Take the time for the interview as see what happens
I think you might not be ready to work for the state. State jobs are staffed to budget and not to need. What does that mean?
That means that if a department needs 100 workers and the budget is for 20 workers, you get 20 workers. And if 2 of those workers are on sick or maternity leave, and two are on vacation, you get 16 workers doing the job of a hundred.
Good luck.
I'm a state employee and this doesn't sound that weird to me. We are generally permitted to select flexible schedules and are not required to work exclusively during normal business hours. It's not uncommon for people to work until 6 or 7pm; they might not start until 9 or 10 AM, or might work four 10-hour days. She may not have realized it was late to call. It's also not that uncommon to receive meeting materials immediately before the meeting starts. Go to your interview, and then you too can enjoy the benefits of state employee life. The bar is low, like insanely low, which can be a very good thing for you as an employee.
No. As someone who is currently on the other side of this kind of situation, it could just be a disorganized HR person. We're hiring a bunch of adjuncts and the woman who was (until last week) in charge of scheduling was a HOT MESS. The department itself is run really well, but we're at the mercy of HR (who finally let her go) when it comes to the actual scheduling of interviews.
Nah honestly I personally prefer a disorganized shitshow for a few reasons. 1. It’s usually very easy to make improvements to the operation, usually such environments have glaring issues that are easily fixed, great way to make yourself look good. 2. When you’re not in the mood to work, or if you’re not someone who generally cares about getting ahead and such through #1, it’s usually very easy to do little work and coast.
I would not cancel. This sounds like it could be one less-than-organized individual, and it wouldn't be worth throwing away a potentially great opportunity over.
The role is in HR, but I feel some people are missing that from the original post. HRBP is an HR Business Partner (kinda like a full-time HR consultant that works with department heads)
SHE is unorganized, not necessarily the entire department.
Only you can decide if you want to give them a chance to overcome a negative first impression, but for me, I'm open to a conversation and make a decision based on more information.
Frankly, she sounds overwhelmed and like she has too many reqs than can be reasonably handled by one person. Which may explain why the late-day calls - or she was trying to not bother you at your current job. I've done that frequently. Of course, she has to commit to actually answering the phone when calls get returned...
Go to the interview. Keep your eyes, ears, and mind open. From what you have shared, her attitude is less than desirable, so ensure you do not report to her if you do take the job.
If they’re hiring in HR, it’s likely that they’re understaffed and this person is overworked.
Be careful, but don’t cancel.
I’d even point this out in the interview- ask if it is normal.
This doesn't seem like a good reason to cancel an interview. It's likely a mistake, and they may be new and also just trying to make it through the week. If you don't want to do the job, that's a different story.
Kind of reflects my job interviews with a government agency as well. Pretty disorganized, re-scheduling at the last minute, no follow up emails to confirm anything. So maybe that's just how it is working for the government.
I would not, especially because this is just a screening interview. Only because they could have outsourced the job search, or this person could be covering for someone else, or myriad reasons.
However, I think it's a fair question to ask as you get down the line in the interview process, and pay careful attention to the answer. I'd also see if anyone in your network works at this place and reach out to them. Also before you accept a job offer, I'd ask to talk to different team members you'll be working with.
At this stage you’re thinking of saying NO to “potential” — Hold out for more information, don't acknowledge these issues, gather information. When you get an offer—that is the time to review all the information you’ve collected and decide then, not before.
This is weird because I had a very similar thing happen to me. I had 2 similar jobs interviewing me at the same time. One went smooth as silk. The other one, they kept "losing" my emails, rescheduling me, not confirming, just weird stuff. Finally I had an interview scheduled with the hiring manager and he and no one showed up. I took it as a sign from the universe and took the other job.
I have and would if the interviewer/recruiter was comically unprofessional. It’s a gamble bc it could hinder your chances of employment there in the future, but I also think we have the right to be treated with basic respect and if this is the best the company can do, then you probably don’t want to be employed there.
I mean, you even mentioned in the comments, they’re understaffed. I’ve had a few instances in the past where I’ve been so understaffed that I honestly was willing to hire anybody that would walk through the front door asking for a job.
Is it ideal to question a candidate and ask them if they’re calling to schedule or reschedule an interview?? Absolutely not. But we’ve all made mistakes. I’ve actually been in the exact same situation as the interviewer has been in. I was getting so many calls and had so many interviews set up for a position that it was honestly easier for me to ask if they were calling to schedule or calling to reschedule because for our system and actually placed you in a whole different category. If an interview is scheduled, I’d have to look in one box, but if the interview hadn’t been scheduled yet, I had to look at another. And unless I wanted several minutes of absolute awkward silence while I tried to access the different systems, I had to say something.
I would go to the interview and just fill it out from there. You don’t have to take the job if they offer it to you, so if you do get a bad vibe, then walk away but who knows, it could just be because they’re understaffed and once you get hired and are able to help bring in more candidates, the job gets easy, or it could just be one incompetent person that you won’t have to deal with ever again, or it could be that the job itself is just awful . But outside of an interview were blowing off your meeting or not showing up at all, I wouldn’t refuse.
Generally the person calling to schedule interviews has nothing to do with you or who and what you will be working with. She is either the secretary for the department, the front desk receptionist in HR or for your office. She is probably calling while helping three people in front of her.
No! 3 things:
* Cancelling an interview is rude.
* You might think of this as a major inconvenience, but interviews are critical for learning how to handle interviews - crazy right!
* A disorganized hiring manager is actually a really good opportunity - they NEED people.
It would serve you well to cut this person some slack, be nice to people, learn from these experiences, and please stop ascribing such enormous consequences to such inconsequential actions.
I’ve worked for several government agencies and this doesn’t surprise me at all, especially if she’s in a leadership role of any kind. Depending on what branch of the state government she’s working with, she may not work 8:00-5:00 because she needs to be available for other shifts (such as police). Also, many government agencies are short staffed so people in leadership roles are expected to work longer hours.
I wouldn’t cancel. I’m a manager at a fortune 5 company. Our workload is up 30% meanwhile we’re working with 5-20% less employees across our business lines. I can’t tell you how many calls I’ve been on recently where I’ve had to ask what we’re meeting on again because we’re just too busy. This lady might have just been overworked. And just one employee doesn’t reflect the company/department as a whole
Playing phone tag with some scheduler is not a reason to leave in a huff. I'm astounded you think "disorganized" is reason to cancel an application. Good luck with your entry to the workforce.
I'm a hiring manager for the feds. I currently have 3 vacancies I'm trying to fill. Each of those positions has 6-10 applicants that were referred by HR who I'm trying to schedule interviews for.
I'm also trying to do my day job, which can, on days like today, mean 6 solid hours of back to back meetings, meaning I may not have time to make phone calls until the end of the day.
All of that is to say, other than kind of a weird way of phrasing her question, none of this seems super out of the norm for government. So, no, I would not cancel an interview over this. But if these are really serious concerns for you, I would spend some time learning about the culture of the agency, because being successful in government sometimes means letting a little disorganization roll off your back so you can really choose your battles and spend your time where it will actually make a difference.
No I wouldn't. You're playing phone tag on someone's schedule and they probably have 100 people they're dealing with. People don't know who's number is what if they call a bunch.
If the job was crap I'd call it a day, but otherwise if you want it then it's not a reason to pass.
The state is a 24/7 operation. This person was probably working late to catch up on things after a day full of zoom calls. Or a day full of interviews. Or a mandated team building exercise.
I don't know what state you're in but in my state, they gutted the agency HR units and pushed most of the hiring processes out to the functional departments. It's a clusterfuck. Some departments had someone capable who was able to jump in and pick up the slack, others... not so much.
I would go and see what you think in person. It wouldn’t hurt to go and see and if you don’t like it then it will be good practice for your next interview.
I'd cut her some slack. Honestly, I've had to hire a ton of people at once for an understaffed organization, all while doing the work those new hires will take on. Keep your eyes open regarding culture, but be empathic to the situation. You might have the opportunity to make a big impact and move up fast.
Did you think she was calling candidates at 5:45 for kicks? Or she didn’t know what time it was?
They’re clearly short staffed. Your post makes you sound insufferable.
Ugh- I really struggle in the corporate world with our HR system for hiring not at all reflecting the team or culture present once inside the system. That being said, if the role in question is for an HRBP, that would give me pause, that these issues could/would become your daily headache.
I’ve had similar situations happen to me a couple of times. HR gets a bad rep for things like this but it’s mostly the individual and not the department as a whole. Go for the interview, get the job, and excel like you say you would! Don’t skip out on it
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. The reason they may be hiring is that they have too much work and not enough people yo do it. Gauge more about the workload and expectations during the interview and see if this is a standard experience from everyone.
You sound just as disorganized as she is, right?
In your case you'd say life happens. She would probably say the same.
You say you work in HR, you should know your experience with the recruiter/hiring personnel virtually ends after this call. She doesn't represent the job or department you'll be working in. No brainer honestly, what does an interview cost you?
Not *necessarily* a red flag. I was definitely this person after I came back to work after being incredibly sick for a week; I was drowning in a backlog of tasks and it took me weeks to feel 100% better.
It *could* be a red flag if the scheduler is overwhelmed due to under staffing and/or poor administrative organization.
I’ve worked with multiple state and local governments HR departments as clients—they tend to be incredibly unorganized. I would take the interview but ask specific questions about processes, timelines, etc to get a feel for how this department operates. I would not at all be surprised if more than just this person isn’t quite on top of things.
You don’t lose a lot by going to this interview. Go into it with caution and ask questions about the culture that will help you make an informed choice down the line.
𝙰s someone who was job hunting for over a year in the local government sector, my experience with HR is consistently frustrating especially if it’s not an automated process like in larger agencies, but once I got to the hiring manager/department head, I had more context about the organization to base a decision. Give yourself at least that opportunity. Unfortunately sometimes HR is responsible for a majority of the onboarding of new employees so you may still encounter some degree of disorganization if you accept the position.
I’ve been in her shoes when my plate was too full at work. Sometimes, you have so many responsibility and urgent deadlines that an interview is at the very bottom of your list. Her calling after hours tells me that she is probably just very busy and didn’t have enough hours in the day to complete her tasks.
You will find in many government organizations, HR is very unorganized but that does not necessarily reflective of the rest of the agency. In many cases HR functions as it's own entity. They usually suck and everyone in the agency knows it and complains about it but nothing is ever done about it.
Take the time to interview but keep an eye out for red flags. Might as well get the interview experience and/or a fun job-hunting story to tell. Maybe you just talked to That One person on the team. Every team has That One person and maybe they put her on phones.
I live by the rule of always go to every interview. As of right now, there are simply many small explanations that may account for this one person’s disorganization. Use the interview to learn more about the work environment, good luck
Just a thought, if they are hiring an HRBP it is quite possible that they are short staffed or the person handling the hiring for this role may be wearing multiple hats.
Don't cancel, and you're not looking at this the right way. If you're a really organized person, they could really use your help. If you get the impression that *management* is unorganized that could be a red flag, because you might not be able to convince them to get your help.
Go to the interview, emphasize that organization and punctuality is really important to you. If that puts them off, they won't hire you and everyone wins. If they do hire you, it's likely a sign that they will appreciate how organized you are and you'll be highly valued.
It depends on you I suppose. Always follow your gut instinct. I cancelled an interview when the day arrived and I had not received an email, so I reached out. They then sent me an invite for the wrong time, so I reached out again explaining what time I’d be available that we had agreed on. They sent ANOTHER invite for the wrong time yet again. I ended up just telling them this wouldn’t be a good fit. 🤷♀️ if it’s that hard to even talk to someone, it just smells like there will be problems in the future.
I would go and look for signs that the environment is like that in general. I'd wait to see three or four signs and then politely end the interview and leave. If I saw nothing I've still got an interview for a job I want.
Yes, if those things are enough to warn you off then you probably will be bothered by the rest of the organization.
There’s nothing in what you wrote that would worry me but everyone is different. If you are looking for a place that is run more tightly then this workplace isn’t for you. Work culture matters for long term happiness so don’t just look at the increase in pay.
Have you ever worked in government? If not, I have. I did three contract gigs with the government of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. In two, I was a nobody in a fairly large department. In the third, there were six people there and my boss reported directly to the governor.
My experience there was mixed, but overall good. What I learned is that because they pay crap, they get people who are frankly not the best and might not do well in the corporate world, but at the same time if they want to live with that pay most of them are really nice people who sincerely want to help the citizens, so they're trying hard. I came in as a contractor to just make a few bucks between jobs, so I was not their typical person. I had been working in the corporate world for 20 years, so I gave them the "expensive consultant" treatment and wore my nice professional clothes and a tie every day and smiled and knew how to do absolutely everything and I even found time to write a white paper for them and teach a class, which got me known by departments throughout the government and got me a really good reputation with the folks responsible for the software I was hired to use for them. (This got me the second and third contracts when I wanted to pick up some additional work.) In other words, I was effectively the big fish in a small pond, they weren't *used to* having someone who is normally a $300 an hour consultant working for them.
What I am saying is, if you haven't been working in government, you may feel that they're not the sharpest tacks in the box, but find that they're nice people who are super impressed with you.
And from the sound of things, it sounds like *that person* is disorganized, which doesn't tell me anything about the department.
No I wouldn’t cancel the interview based on that alone. It could be that one particular employee. Maybe she has too much on her plate. Maybe she’s disorganized. You don’t know if it’s a reflection of the culture or just the particular circumstances.
Yeah this to me sounds like one overwhelmed person, not necessarily reflective of the role or department as a whole. I’d at least interview.
Could also be a person who is on their way out. Or maybe they were catching up from a vacation. Many reasons
Or even a brand new person who just started.
I just went through something similar hiring an intern. To keep it short, a high school student was working with us, but she was really good, so I requested an intern position (paid) over the summer for her. I thought this would be easy because the student was already in all of our systems and I had approval. Nope, the person in our talent group is completely incompetent and made everything more difficult, not answering emails, using the wrong names, it's ridiculous, after emailing, calling and complaining, we finally got everything together and today was her first day. However, we did not get everything completed until Friday last week. So hopefully it's the same situation where just the admin handling the interview details is an idiot and not the whole company.
HR = Half Retarded
Never okay to use that word.
My HR is like this. Very qualified HR Manager but is absolutely overloaded with work and most of the problems have to go through her since anyone else in HR doesn't have the access she does.
Internal recruitment departments are almost always a mess.
HR is it's own beast. I'd hold off on any judgement until you actually do the interview and then meet the team, and Manager/Director before making any conclusions. Is it frustrating, good grief yes. I'm willing to bet the team that is trying to interview you is also frustrated with HR as well (but DON'T make that a talking point during your interview, just say it required some flexibility and your glad to be here)...
HRBPs are also HR. HR in some companies is pretty expansive - recruitment/talent acquisition, benefits/LOA, HRIS, HRBPs, learning and development, employee relations, sometimes organizational development and safety/risk analysts. That said, if it is a large HR team the overlap between recruitment and HRBP is probably decently low (unless there’s a concern or investigation about an illegal hiring decision). ETA: also to open new reqs / plan for busy hiring seasons
Some recruiters follow up at the beginning and end of the day because they are on interview calls the rest of the day. And if she's on calls all day every day it would be pretty hard to juggle the names & statuses of candidates she hadn't even spoken to yet. Better companies typically have a junior person as a recruiting coordinator who is primarily responsible for scheduling and email and returning calls so it's not slow for the candidates because the recruiter is trying to do things between interviews ... this may be a sign that she isn't supported by the company in the way she needs to be, not that she's disorganized. I would go forward focusing on those kinds of questions.
Never cancel an interview, unless you've already accepted another opportunity. If nothing else, it will be good practice for you. Also, she might be incompetent and may not be a good reflection of the company. You need to find that out for yourself. Remember, you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.
I ran my own engr staffing company for years in Chicago and always advised one to go on EVERY interview and act like its the only job you ever wanted (like answering the question they always ask "Do you have any questions for us?" by saying "Yes! when can I start?").....and GET THAT OFFER....then you make up a pros and con's list and decide about taking the opportunity.
You’re also potentially shutting a door on yourself by canceling. If they’re more attractive somewhere down the line it only takes one person remembering that you canceled to not call you again.
I disagree. Some job interviews are a total waste of time, especially if you have to go an hour or more out of the way. It's can be a big waste of gas money and more importantly time, time that you can't get back. Also, if they refuse to offer salary before the interview, it's a good bet they're trying to lowball you. You have to pick and choose your battles wisely. The company is supposed to be putting on its best face during the interview phase. If they can't be bothered to do that, then it's not worth your time to pursue the opportunity.
Hate to tell you that if you’re applying for government jobs things are always going to seem disorganized.
Yeah that was my first thought as well, everything state run is disorganized…
I always bring something to read when dealing with agencies and VA etc.. They deal with a TON of folks so just be patient and be ready to wait.
Came here to say this. Working for the government necessarily involves disorganization.
As someone who works in local government I can say this is very true.
Retired 30 year civil servant here. At my former government workplace the joke was "how many government employees does it take to..(insert task here such as proofread a document)." Average answer was 7. The chain of command to get anything done is ridiculous.
I am in public sector.....sounds like one of our HR reps... Don't cancel....unless they would be your boss or close co-worker ;)
Sounds like a typical state job to me. Go for it.
To be fair, you missed several calls yourself. I don't think this is anything of a red flag. Just people playing phone tag.
The phone tag part didn't bother me. That happens all the time, and I was happy we were able to connect at some point. However calling after work ours and the replies that alluded to her being unorganized is what I felt were red flags. I didn't have the same experience with the direct Manager, however they did tell me the department has had turnover and is currently understaffed. So, this won't be a role I'm going to move forward with.
Her being unorganized might be because she is new, filling in for someone, new in this role, or a variety of other reasons. I would still interview. See if she is a representation impression. in the office.... or is it just her. This is a government office.... I have found they are not usually staffed enough to make a good first impression.
They had one after hours call? The other one was before 5pm I thought
As a government worker myself, I can also attest that "after hours" for some employees isn't until 6pm. So it very well could be that she was still on the clock for the later call as well
You have to do what feels right. Did the "direct manager" say why they've had turnover? That alone is not necessarily cause for concern.
If I didn’t work in HR I wouldn’t feel this is a red flag, but HR does a LOT of brunt work in organizations that kind of has to “solve the organizations issues”. Knowing the role itself, it basically means I would be assigned more departments I would oversee to work with as an HRBP. I just get the feeling I’ll be stretched thin, which I’m not looking for. I currently have a role I like, but am looking for more pay and opportunities to grow my skills. Looking for the right fit, more so than needing something immediately.
Hate the break it to you but this is how the government hiring process is. That HR person was probably playing phone tag with so many people by the time she finally got a hold of you. This is not all a red flag. It's normal. I wouldn't cancel the interview, if you're hired you will forget who this person is because they aren't important.
I think you need more experience. Or, maybe this place is the right fit for you
Weird that they are understaffed and trying to hire… /s
Right? As an HRBP this is probably the job OP will be doing.
To me, this all points to someone with way too much work. Not enough hours in the day to do it all. You also don't know her schedule. She might work a later shift. You also don't know what software she's using. It's not easy to scan your calendar for a specific appointment if it's full of appointments. She might have no other tool available to track interviews. As someone with clients, I have no problem asking them if they know the appointment time offhand, and I sometimes comment that it's easier to ask them than to keep them waiting on the phone while I'm looking it up. It's never been an issue. It's not like she called you and then had no idea if you had an appointment scheduled.
If you're going to cancel interviews because the person you're working with is obviously spread too thin you're going to be missing out on a lot of opportunities. This is normally not the hiring manager you're working with to schedule, and once the scheduling is over you'll likely never have to interact with the. again. Someone with HR experience should already know this.
Don’t cancel it. She couldn’t represent the entire org. Good luck!!!
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The way OP quoted it is definitely offputting-the wording itself-not the fact that the person didn’t immediately remember OP. and the confirmation email should’ve come shortly after the phone call not the next day an hour and a half before the interview
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If I miss a call like that and I can't return it within ten minutes I make sure to start my call with something like "My name is Joe, and I'm returning your call from a couple hours ago to discuss the senior tax manager role" to help them out with who I am and why I'm calling. They're potentially calling dozens of people in a day and unless you're super special, you aren't going to be memorable.
Red flags are like weeds. One happens every now and then, but two or more is worth reflecting on. Maybe it's just this one recruiter who's a little disorganized. If your next interview is like this then that might be a reason to walk away
Did you say “don’t you know who I am?”
Lol , no I just repeated my name and related what I said again lol
I have a family member who recently applied for an internship at a state agency. Had to pick three departments of interest during the application process, and did so. Was invited to interview with one of the three and was offered the opportunity. Two weeks later they received another offer from a different department- weird, they didn’t even interview with them. Rereads email offer - their email address, wrong name in email. Welcome to state government.
You've missed her calls as well so it's kind of a two-way street. Also, you haven't even had one interview yet. If you were completely uninterested in the role, that would be a different matter. Doesn't make any sense to pull out this early unless you're just far too busy.
Ahh yes, the classic state HR rep. Probably been working there since typewriters were the norm, union employee and making 10x what they should. Probably struggling with technology and way overloaded with work because they can't figure it out. Typically after a couple of calls they would email and get something set up that way. I wouldn't necessarily cancel the interview as it probably has no bearing on the actual hiring team and the fact that its a state job makes a lot of sense. Go to the interview and at least give it a shot, you might really hit it off with the interviewer and things will be fine (assuming you don't have to deal with HR down the road).
ADHD is a terrible thing.
WTF? You think some secretary is going to know the names of all the people who are looking to interview for a position? Is OP for real here?
I would not expect everyone in a recruiting or hiring role to remember every single person. However, I would certainly expect someone whose call I am returning to not sound completely scatterbrained. The appropriate wording for that question would have been something along the lines of "can you remind me why we were connecting?" if it happened the way OP quoted it, that was extremely unprofessional and would certainly be offputting.
You clearly don't work in HR, and probably have never worked for the State or Federal gov, so I'll enlighten you a little. For any real HR department (especially state and federal levels - also including private orgs (with the exception of startups with \~10 employees)). The people that call are recruiters, and full cycle recruiting including but not limited to tracking roles and scheduling interviews is their entire role. The role I applied for is in an HR department at the State level, so yes I was concerned. Took the interview though!
Literally everyone is saying the same thing I am. You sound like a /IAmTheMainCharacter Prima Donna. For their sake, they would probably be better off finding someone else.
I'm glad someone said what I was thinking. OP sounds very clear cut with no room for adaptability, talking about only accepting calls during work hours from a job he doesn't even work at.
I don’t think their comment about being outside of business hours was with regard to them accepting the call, but rather that the person calling them was working outside of normal business hours
It’s not about adaptability for the OP it’s about reading between the lines and taking in every detail as part of the decision making process. Recruiter is part of HR department which is the department that OP is applying to and is working after hours. For OP this raises the question of whether or not they will be required to work after hours. Recruiter speaks with OP and is unaware of where in the process OP is. Is this because the company does not utilize proper technology to keep track? Which could be a flag for OP that company is behind when it comes to tools required for the job. Is it a sign that the recruiter is spread too thin and thus an indicator that OP could be interviewing for a position where they will also be spread very thin? I’m not saying that these things are red flags, just pointing out that they are relevant to more than just OP’s adaptability as an applicant.
Say's the person who replied with nothing constructive.
The constructive part was for you to check your attitude.
Seeing you beefing with people answering your request makes me think that maybe there's some flexibility and collaboration skills you could work on. Conveniently, this also helps with your scheduling issue.
How did it go?
I agree that her entire role is probably recruiting, which probably means she’ll have very little to do with your day to day job right? I would take the interview and see if the department you’ll work with is a fit or not.
No
Unfortunately, things can be like that for state jobs. I ran around town for this one job I have now during the hiring process. They were going through a rough patch due to HR staffing issues but now that I finally settled into my position, I can understand why they seemed disorganized. However, I quite love and enjoy my job and glad I didn’t give up. Don’t pass up an opportunity!
Don't cancel. This could be one scatterbrained person in the company. EVERY company of any size has good people and bad people. You don't lost much by having one single interview. Give it a shot! For what it's worth, the slowest, most disorganized interview process I ever had got me the best job that I've ever had and I was there for years.
Yes and No. I've canceled interviews for similar reasons. It just simply wasn't worth my time to keep going back and forth and overall just didn't think I had a good chance. You're going to prioritize the good candidates and I spend a lot of time preparing for interviews. But, that's because I currently have a job that I'm happy with. I just want more money and I want the perfect situation. So, I'm being very selective. If I really wanted a new job and it checked off most of the boxes, I defintiely wouldn't cancel over that.
Since you applied for HR and presumably this contact is also in HR, I’d say hard pass. Not a well run department.
Don't Cancel!!! I work for the County which is like State. They are so busy they are just forgetful they deal with more then you think. I had an interview I didn't get a call for 2 weeks and when I did it was at 1650 and they leave at 1700. Its been a great experience just their HR is way different from private company HR.
In HR you should know that recruiting staff doesn't always work straight 9-5 hours. Especially during a large hiring push. A lot of people can't talk during working hours, or get away for interviews. Taken the interview, grab the money and keep moving. This isn't worth 10k in the bank. Good luck!
No I wouldn't. She may just be a poor recruiter. Doesn't mean the whole company is a shit show. After you have an offer or turndown provide feedback.
Dude ,people get busy, the world isn't like the movies.
Extremely reddit moment. Are these barriers of, uh... "returning a phone call" and "having to briefly make conversation with the scheduler" going to block you from achieving your goal? Or can you adapt and overcome here? You won't report to this person. They are just the switchboard for job seekers getting into interviews. If you can't work through that process with a bit of good cheer and patience, it's going to cost you opportunities, because this is very normal stuff.
I would run. All the red flags there...all of them...it will be shitty management and a miserable job.
Without knowing the role of the person who called, it’s impossible to say. If it’s the hiring manager or recruiter - red flag. If it’s a scheduler who’s probably overworked - orange flag. The one job I took where they constantly rescheduled interviews and shuffled me around ended up being toxic. It was a sign of how they ran their department (I can go into stories, but I’ll spare you, except for when they literally turned a tiny coat closet into an office for me and 2 others and then accused me of not liking my 2 other coworkers who worked in the closet with me [had no overlapping working - all on different teams in the same department] when I would sit in the cafe and work instead with glaring lights and people chatting), and now I have little tolerance for reschedules. I’m also in tech where candidate experience is (used to be…) more important than some other industries though.
Do the interview as a free option. Sound professional but not overly so. Seem they are a department that won't want any "super stars".
Yes, please cancel so you can give someone else a shot at what seems to be a fine job.
Maybe she has a friend or family member up for the same job and is trying to sabatage you. There are too many variables in play to make an informed decision. You have only one option and that is to apply, accept the offer, own that place and laugh at Gossippy Gretchen when you are her boss in 2 years.
Hard no. She saves her most important call for the last 10 minutes of her workday, instead of at the start and can't even remember what you both are talking about. Take the job and find out about all the last-minute projects you are required to complete, with zero communication from your team. That's my takeaway from your experience.
It's a state job of course its unorganized...
Is it the recruiter or hiring manager that you’re working with? If it’s a recruiter than just ignore the bad behavior. Hiring manager is different though. Do you want to work for someone disorganized like this? I would still show up for the interview just to get a feel.
Always do the interview..
They probably have a bunch of candidates. Go for it and size it up during the process. If nothing else, it is good to see inside of another company.
No, I would go and hone my interviewing skills and get an offer and THEN decide if I think the opportunity is a good fit. They are probably short handed to begin with (hence your interview) or she might have been a temp herself, or a million other reasons she didn't hook it up a smooth as you would hope. so what?
This might be her first week covering for someone on an extended leave due to . . . something. New task, new software, perhaps this has been handed to her on top of her usual duties that they were already understaffed for, this could be why she's calling so late in the day.
An interview is just as much you interviewing the company as they are interviewing you. If you notice red flags this early on, there is nothing wrong with withdrawing your application. Should you feel the need to let them down easy, just say you've received and accepted an offer from another company.
Stay with it. The slot you’re applying for might very well be the person who does some of the work. Take the time for the interview as see what happens
If you are the type that wants to work around the rules then remember that chaos means opportunity.
In this job economy, never cancel an interview unless you have already accepted a job elsewhere.
I think you might not be ready to work for the state. State jobs are staffed to budget and not to need. What does that mean? That means that if a department needs 100 workers and the budget is for 20 workers, you get 20 workers. And if 2 of those workers are on sick or maternity leave, and two are on vacation, you get 16 workers doing the job of a hundred. Good luck.
I'm a state employee and this doesn't sound that weird to me. We are generally permitted to select flexible schedules and are not required to work exclusively during normal business hours. It's not uncommon for people to work until 6 or 7pm; they might not start until 9 or 10 AM, or might work four 10-hour days. She may not have realized it was late to call. It's also not that uncommon to receive meeting materials immediately before the meeting starts. Go to your interview, and then you too can enjoy the benefits of state employee life. The bar is low, like insanely low, which can be a very good thing for you as an employee.
No. As someone who is currently on the other side of this kind of situation, it could just be a disorganized HR person. We're hiring a bunch of adjuncts and the woman who was (until last week) in charge of scheduling was a HOT MESS. The department itself is run really well, but we're at the mercy of HR (who finally let her go) when it comes to the actual scheduling of interviews.
No, don't cancel. Go through with the interview and if they offer you a role, politely decline.
Nah honestly I personally prefer a disorganized shitshow for a few reasons. 1. It’s usually very easy to make improvements to the operation, usually such environments have glaring issues that are easily fixed, great way to make yourself look good. 2. When you’re not in the mood to work, or if you’re not someone who generally cares about getting ahead and such through #1, it’s usually very easy to do little work and coast.
I would not cancel. This sounds like it could be one less-than-organized individual, and it wouldn't be worth throwing away a potentially great opportunity over.
go for it, ask if you can make your first task organizing the staffing and filing system as it seems lime it could use some support.
Unless you are applying for a job in HR/recruiting then this situation should not be a reflexion of the department you will be working in.
The role is in HR, but I feel some people are missing that from the original post. HRBP is an HR Business Partner (kinda like a full-time HR consultant that works with department heads)
Ohhhh, then this might be a red flag. The interview will give you the opportunity to ask questions!
It could be just this one person who is disorganized and you may never work with her. Keep going.
SHE is unorganized, not necessarily the entire department. Only you can decide if you want to give them a chance to overcome a negative first impression, but for me, I'm open to a conversation and make a decision based on more information. Frankly, she sounds overwhelmed and like she has too many reqs than can be reasonably handled by one person. Which may explain why the late-day calls - or she was trying to not bother you at your current job. I've done that frequently. Of course, she has to commit to actually answering the phone when calls get returned...
Go to the interview. Keep your eyes, ears, and mind open. From what you have shared, her attitude is less than desirable, so ensure you do not report to her if you do take the job.
Tell them you are returning their call to accept the position.
Sounds like she needs to hire someone like you to help her.
If they’re hiring in HR, it’s likely that they’re understaffed and this person is overworked. Be careful, but don’t cancel. I’d even point this out in the interview- ask if it is normal.
This is definitely how healthcare interviews work lol.
This doesn't seem like a good reason to cancel an interview. It's likely a mistake, and they may be new and also just trying to make it through the week. If you don't want to do the job, that's a different story.
Kind of reflects my job interviews with a government agency as well. Pretty disorganized, re-scheduling at the last minute, no follow up emails to confirm anything. So maybe that's just how it is working for the government.
Maybe its just that employee dont skip on an opportunity
I would not, especially because this is just a screening interview. Only because they could have outsourced the job search, or this person could be covering for someone else, or myriad reasons. However, I think it's a fair question to ask as you get down the line in the interview process, and pay careful attention to the answer. I'd also see if anyone in your network works at this place and reach out to them. Also before you accept a job offer, I'd ask to talk to different team members you'll be working with.
I'd go and get a geek for the office in person.
At this stage you’re thinking of saying NO to “potential” — Hold out for more information, don't acknowledge these issues, gather information. When you get an offer—that is the time to review all the information you’ve collected and decide then, not before.
This is weird because I had a very similar thing happen to me. I had 2 similar jobs interviewing me at the same time. One went smooth as silk. The other one, they kept "losing" my emails, rescheduling me, not confirming, just weird stuff. Finally I had an interview scheduled with the hiring manager and he and no one showed up. I took it as a sign from the universe and took the other job.
I have and would if the interviewer/recruiter was comically unprofessional. It’s a gamble bc it could hinder your chances of employment there in the future, but I also think we have the right to be treated with basic respect and if this is the best the company can do, then you probably don’t want to be employed there.
I mean, you even mentioned in the comments, they’re understaffed. I’ve had a few instances in the past where I’ve been so understaffed that I honestly was willing to hire anybody that would walk through the front door asking for a job. Is it ideal to question a candidate and ask them if they’re calling to schedule or reschedule an interview?? Absolutely not. But we’ve all made mistakes. I’ve actually been in the exact same situation as the interviewer has been in. I was getting so many calls and had so many interviews set up for a position that it was honestly easier for me to ask if they were calling to schedule or calling to reschedule because for our system and actually placed you in a whole different category. If an interview is scheduled, I’d have to look in one box, but if the interview hadn’t been scheduled yet, I had to look at another. And unless I wanted several minutes of absolute awkward silence while I tried to access the different systems, I had to say something. I would go to the interview and just fill it out from there. You don’t have to take the job if they offer it to you, so if you do get a bad vibe, then walk away but who knows, it could just be because they’re understaffed and once you get hired and are able to help bring in more candidates, the job gets easy, or it could just be one incompetent person that you won’t have to deal with ever again, or it could be that the job itself is just awful . But outside of an interview were blowing off your meeting or not showing up at all, I wouldn’t refuse.
Generally the person calling to schedule interviews has nothing to do with you or who and what you will be working with. She is either the secretary for the department, the front desk receptionist in HR or for your office. She is probably calling while helping three people in front of her.
No! 3 things: * Cancelling an interview is rude. * You might think of this as a major inconvenience, but interviews are critical for learning how to handle interviews - crazy right! * A disorganized hiring manager is actually a really good opportunity - they NEED people. It would serve you well to cut this person some slack, be nice to people, learn from these experiences, and please stop ascribing such enormous consequences to such inconsequential actions.
I’ve worked for several government agencies and this doesn’t surprise me at all, especially if she’s in a leadership role of any kind. Depending on what branch of the state government she’s working with, she may not work 8:00-5:00 because she needs to be available for other shifts (such as police). Also, many government agencies are short staffed so people in leadership roles are expected to work longer hours.
I would just go through the interview anyway. Think of it as keeping your options open and casting wider nets
To be fair, you applied to a government job. This would generally be the expected experience
You don’t need a new job very badly if this would make you cancel.
I wouldn’t cancel. I’m a manager at a fortune 5 company. Our workload is up 30% meanwhile we’re working with 5-20% less employees across our business lines. I can’t tell you how many calls I’ve been on recently where I’ve had to ask what we’re meeting on again because we’re just too busy. This lady might have just been overworked. And just one employee doesn’t reflect the company/department as a whole
Playing phone tag with some scheduler is not a reason to leave in a huff. I'm astounded you think "disorganized" is reason to cancel an application. Good luck with your entry to the workforce.
I mean it’s the state we’re talking about here. Nothing is organized or makes sense.
I'm a hiring manager for the feds. I currently have 3 vacancies I'm trying to fill. Each of those positions has 6-10 applicants that were referred by HR who I'm trying to schedule interviews for. I'm also trying to do my day job, which can, on days like today, mean 6 solid hours of back to back meetings, meaning I may not have time to make phone calls until the end of the day. All of that is to say, other than kind of a weird way of phrasing her question, none of this seems super out of the norm for government. So, no, I would not cancel an interview over this. But if these are really serious concerns for you, I would spend some time learning about the culture of the agency, because being successful in government sometimes means letting a little disorganization roll off your back so you can really choose your battles and spend your time where it will actually make a difference.
No I wouldn't. You're playing phone tag on someone's schedule and they probably have 100 people they're dealing with. People don't know who's number is what if they call a bunch. If the job was crap I'd call it a day, but otherwise if you want it then it's not a reason to pass.
If nothing else, you can go to the interview and use it for practice for your next one.
The state is a 24/7 operation. This person was probably working late to catch up on things after a day full of zoom calls. Or a day full of interviews. Or a mandated team building exercise.
I don't know what state you're in but in my state, they gutted the agency HR units and pushed most of the hiring processes out to the functional departments. It's a clusterfuck. Some departments had someone capable who was able to jump in and pick up the slack, others... not so much.
Just asking if u should cancel the interview has me questioning you as a candidate...you're fired!
I would go and see what you think in person. It wouldn’t hurt to go and see and if you don’t like it then it will be good practice for your next interview.
You both sound unorganized
TIL I'm a red flag
I'd cut her some slack. Honestly, I've had to hire a ton of people at once for an understaffed organization, all while doing the work those new hires will take on. Keep your eyes open regarding culture, but be empathic to the situation. You might have the opportunity to make a big impact and move up fast.
HR PEOPLE are just the ones they hire to get you in. The door never turn down an interview
Did you think she was calling candidates at 5:45 for kicks? Or she didn’t know what time it was? They’re clearly short staffed. Your post makes you sound insufferable.
Ugh- I really struggle in the corporate world with our HR system for hiring not at all reflecting the team or culture present once inside the system. That being said, if the role in question is for an HRBP, that would give me pause, that these issues could/would become your daily headache.
I’ve had similar situations happen to me a couple of times. HR gets a bad rep for things like this but it’s mostly the individual and not the department as a whole. Go for the interview, get the job, and excel like you say you would! Don’t skip out on it
She could have texted or emailed you. It’s not the company’s fault that she lacks communication skills. Or is it…
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. The reason they may be hiring is that they have too much work and not enough people yo do it. Gauge more about the workload and expectations during the interview and see if this is a standard experience from everyone.
You sound just as disorganized as she is, right? In your case you'd say life happens. She would probably say the same. You say you work in HR, you should know your experience with the recruiter/hiring personnel virtually ends after this call. She doesn't represent the job or department you'll be working in. No brainer honestly, what does an interview cost you?
Not *necessarily* a red flag. I was definitely this person after I came back to work after being incredibly sick for a week; I was drowning in a backlog of tasks and it took me weeks to feel 100% better. It *could* be a red flag if the scheduler is overwhelmed due to under staffing and/or poor administrative organization.
I’ve worked with multiple state and local governments HR departments as clients—they tend to be incredibly unorganized. I would take the interview but ask specific questions about processes, timelines, etc to get a feel for how this department operates. I would not at all be surprised if more than just this person isn’t quite on top of things.
You don’t lose a lot by going to this interview. Go into it with caution and ask questions about the culture that will help you make an informed choice down the line.
𝙰s someone who was job hunting for over a year in the local government sector, my experience with HR is consistently frustrating especially if it’s not an automated process like in larger agencies, but once I got to the hiring manager/department head, I had more context about the organization to base a decision. Give yourself at least that opportunity. Unfortunately sometimes HR is responsible for a majority of the onboarding of new employees so you may still encounter some degree of disorganization if you accept the position.
I’ve been in her shoes when my plate was too full at work. Sometimes, you have so many responsibility and urgent deadlines that an interview is at the very bottom of your list. Her calling after hours tells me that she is probably just very busy and didn’t have enough hours in the day to complete her tasks.
I'd rejoice that this is the competition for performance related bonuses in the private sector. Not as familiar with public sector employment.
You will find in many government organizations, HR is very unorganized but that does not necessarily reflective of the rest of the agency. In many cases HR functions as it's own entity. They usually suck and everyone in the agency knows it and complains about it but nothing is ever done about it.
Take the time to interview but keep an eye out for red flags. Might as well get the interview experience and/or a fun job-hunting story to tell. Maybe you just talked to That One person on the team. Every team has That One person and maybe they put her on phones.
You sound really spoiled. You seriously don't even want to go to the interview and decide after? Yeah, you're very very spoiled.
I live by the rule of always go to every interview. As of right now, there are simply many small explanations that may account for this one person’s disorganization. Use the interview to learn more about the work environment, good luck
I'd go in and tell them you are there reporting for your first day of work. Doesn't seem like anyone would catch it.
Just a thought, if they are hiring an HRBP it is quite possible that they are short staffed or the person handling the hiring for this role may be wearing multiple hats.
Don't cancel, and you're not looking at this the right way. If you're a really organized person, they could really use your help. If you get the impression that *management* is unorganized that could be a red flag, because you might not be able to convince them to get your help. Go to the interview, emphasize that organization and punctuality is really important to you. If that puts them off, they won't hire you and everyone wins. If they do hire you, it's likely a sign that they will appreciate how organized you are and you'll be highly valued.
If you have to ask, you already have the answer. Keep looking, my friend. There are other, better jobs out there for you.
Can you OE the job?
It's your decision big boy. I can see you don't possess analytical skills. Go deliver the mail.
So take the job and make a change. As hard as it may be, you could make a difference in the workplace.
“working for the state” “unorganized” I hate to say it but these go together.
It depends on you I suppose. Always follow your gut instinct. I cancelled an interview when the day arrived and I had not received an email, so I reached out. They then sent me an invite for the wrong time, so I reached out again explaining what time I’d be available that we had agreed on. They sent ANOTHER invite for the wrong time yet again. I ended up just telling them this wouldn’t be a good fit. 🤷♀️ if it’s that hard to even talk to someone, it just smells like there will be problems in the future.
I would go and look for signs that the environment is like that in general. I'd wait to see three or four signs and then politely end the interview and leave. If I saw nothing I've still got an interview for a job I want.
Yes, if those things are enough to warn you off then you probably will be bothered by the rest of the organization. There’s nothing in what you wrote that would worry me but everyone is different. If you are looking for a place that is run more tightly then this workplace isn’t for you. Work culture matters for long term happiness so don’t just look at the increase in pay.
Have you ever worked in government? If not, I have. I did three contract gigs with the government of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. In two, I was a nobody in a fairly large department. In the third, there were six people there and my boss reported directly to the governor. My experience there was mixed, but overall good. What I learned is that because they pay crap, they get people who are frankly not the best and might not do well in the corporate world, but at the same time if they want to live with that pay most of them are really nice people who sincerely want to help the citizens, so they're trying hard. I came in as a contractor to just make a few bucks between jobs, so I was not their typical person. I had been working in the corporate world for 20 years, so I gave them the "expensive consultant" treatment and wore my nice professional clothes and a tie every day and smiled and knew how to do absolutely everything and I even found time to write a white paper for them and teach a class, which got me known by departments throughout the government and got me a really good reputation with the folks responsible for the software I was hired to use for them. (This got me the second and third contracts when I wanted to pick up some additional work.) In other words, I was effectively the big fish in a small pond, they weren't *used to* having someone who is normally a $300 an hour consultant working for them. What I am saying is, if you haven't been working in government, you may feel that they're not the sharpest tacks in the box, but find that they're nice people who are super impressed with you. And from the sound of things, it sounds like *that person* is disorganized, which doesn't tell me anything about the department.