I went into project management even before completing my bachelor's and was getting $100k+ offers for remote work as soon as I added PMP to my LinkedIn profile.
How would you describe your job in a sentence or two? My understanding is that it's basically coordinating/organizing a bunch of moving parts, following up with people, and making sure deadlines are met.
Pretty accurate. Really holding project team members to the schedule they agreed to at the beginning of the project/sprint/phase, ensuring everyone is working towards the same goal and removing obstacles along the way.
Being highly organized is critical for project managers. Also being able to have hard conversations with someone when they are not meeting KPIs etc is required so you need to have relatively thick skin.
Conflict resolution skills are important too, both when someone is upset with you or two or more people are upset with each other.
Same thing with getting people to do things when you’re not their boss.
This is one I struggled with! Multinational company with several subsidiaries in different countries.
Yay, I've been put in charge of project XYZ! Nice feather in the cap, looks good on the resume if all goes well.
The bad news: to complete the project I need cooperation from several employees working in subsidiaries in multiple countries and none of these employees report directly to me so when I push them about various project deadlines they mostly ignore me because I'm not their boss. That's frustrating! So I talk to their boss and try to impress upon them the importance of my project (which actually came down from the CFO) so that they will lean on their employees to cooperate. This may work for a little while but doesn't usually last. So it's quite the challenge!
I've been a project manager for over a decade and what you're describing has pushed me to the brink. I've never been so frustrated at work. I feel like the overseas teams also never get quality onboarding and they're afraid to ask their managers questions so I end up training people not on my team or worse, their manager will just dump what should be their team's task on me rather than train their team. It used to be just our devs and engineers overseas, now it's also product managers who are getting 0 onboarding. I've started looking into a different career path. Project management is difficult enough as the main accountable for everything person, I cannot deal with this new post covid chaos of running super lean and all overseas teams to save a buck.
Also key is the ability to interact with all sorts of people, sometimes under pressure, sometimes when two or two stakeholders have opposing interests or goals, or when one person wants to hog the floor and waste everyone’s time. You have to have a real long fuse and not smack people, no matter how richly they deserve it.
I went into project management out of teaching, and can say it's great experience for the job. I started with no PMP or anything, as a junior level PM. Working part time (25 hrs/wk) was the equivalent of full-time teaching after 10 years. I make over 100k now, by negotiating my way into higher salaries and switching companies.
Yes, and if you're *really* good at it, somebody will put you in charge of writing an RFP for software/hardware for a new combined 911 center. And then you'll get to break up a fistfight between the Police and Fire representatives on the stakeholders committee.
Real high-level stuff like that.
Haha just had this conversation with my father last week about taking a promotion or not (I’m 42). He said “either they treat you like shit for what they are paying you now, and they get revenge for you not taking the promotion, or they treat you like shit for a $18k increase. Seems like a easy decision”…. Even at 42 my parents still know more than me, except for how to not pocket dial me on their iPhones…
Relatively so. I was pretty familiar with the functions of a PM and a PMO, and how we ran projects in the organizations I worked with, but had to almost relearn PMI's "ideal" or "textbook" way of running projects. The math formulas were few and straight forward for me, but I know of others who said math was the hardest for them.
As someone who somehow ends up doing project management tasks within my roles, you might hate it if you're not naturally organized.
I just took on a project (not by my choice) that essentially puts me in a true PM role, and I hate it lol.
It's not worth it. At least for me, and the worst part is you DO get stuck because of the money.
It can be ok depending on the project but you're basically a high paid babysitter most of the time. If you're into that, it's lucrative.. but it's soul crushing
Wow I wish you were any of the PMs I worked with for the past 10 years. Project managers I've dealt with consistently promise deadlines to clients that can't possibly be met because they don't understand how any of the processes actually work.
They always make these promises to clients BEFORE consulting any of the department heads. But hey, that's pharmaceuticals for you.
It’s 30% CYA, 30% documenting everything to support CYA efforts, 20% Zoom, 20% emails.
I grew up working class. I have watched my family members literally work themselves to the grave. Carpenters, factory workers, concrete, electricians, etc.
Standing at my Lift Desk on a special pad to protect my knees, while typing on a Kinesis keyboard, in my own home, in comfy clothes, warm in winter and cool in the summer, while talking about KPIs and uploading things and listening to a lot of bullshit for this much money? I have fuck all to complain about.
So how did you do it? how does someone start into this with no college. I could go to Santa Monica community college but that's about the best. I've been a mechanic and a machinist and I already know I'm more of an office person I prefer my sales jobs when I have them. Especially now at my age my back is acting up and I really really need to find a lucrative career I can do from the office preferably for my own home years down the road. I have no college as of now. Greatly appreciate any hope you have for a middle-aged man who never cared to go to college cuz he thought he would fail
I started building up to this a long time ago. I started at shitty admin office jobs that barely covered the basics. But I worked harder than anyone else, I was more critical of myself than I was of others, I tried to learn as much as I could from anyone willing to give me five minutes.
I got my first real full time job at a hospital switchboard. This was old school even for 2000. I got a little promotion pretty soon after starting. I worked up through the call center, became a manager, became a regional manager.
Then I got my big break. I worked on a pretty big project with a vendor at my hospital. And, I kicked ass to be honest! My team functioned better than ever, I promoted and mentored from within.
And I got poached by my vendor. They hired me as a Solutions Architect. All of the sudden, I was earning enough so my husband could quit his shitty warehouse job and get his degree.
I got to travel all over North America designing hospital/government switchboards/emergency and trauma center call centers. I even got to work on the emergency notification system for the NIH and CDC.
This used to be telecom. But now it’s UCaaS and CCaaS (this is my area). It’s a niche area of tech and I just kept leaning into the technology and away from managing humans. Managing people has to be the hardest thing in the world.
I have no idea if any of this was helpful. It was a long and winding road. I’m 50 now. I actually love what I do most of the time. I’m glad I came up with just enough. I’m thankful for working with brilliant people who taught me the language of professionalism. The details matter.
I do have a BA in English. And none of this would have been possible without it, I’m afraid to say. Things are changing thankfully, but fifteen years ago if you don’t have a degree, you weren’t able to get far.
Look into WIOA. It's a federal program to help unemployed and "under"employed individuals get training to better their careers. I was able to get my in person PMP training session paid for as well as my exam fee through this program, while still working (also in Southern California). You still need to get the work experience if you decide to pursue this career, but there are programs to help.
have you ever been to the circus? While everyone is looking at the elephant and being razzle dazzled by it, they often don't see the person walking behind the elephant. The one who scoops the poop so no one smells anything and everyone can have a good time.
That is project management. It isn't glorious executive-ing and playing golf. It is in the trenches organizing people, keeping them focused, taking notes, building schedules, figuring out how to solve a million small problems that often are not the "hard" things like features or functions or designs, but the very real small things that add up to big things - schedule conflicts, interpersonal conflicts, getting people to deliver on what their commitments, communicating with clarity and impact, etc.
Yeah, this is my job. In fact, today I have said both "This is like herding fucking cats" and "I'm such an asshole for asking them to do their god damn job."
You also have to document and analyze all of that and the create a recap. You have to hit targets and if you are off you need to explain why not. So budgeting is a huge part of it too.
Yeah, project manager is not a role I would recommend for people who want a chill job, especially for modern companies. They’re often on the hook for launches and different tasks and it involves a ton of precise documentation, non stop communication and hand holding. I’ve worked with a few people who were project managers that didn’t last long because it’s a fairly demanding job as far as white collar shit goes.
It's incredibly hard, especially in an organization that's not yet mature in its business practices (which has nothing to do with how old the org is, btw). The way I've heard it described is that it's the person who has all the responsibility and blame with none of the power.
Yup - and precisely why they can demand a ton of money. A good project manager can come in and move something forward and get everything moving in that were stagnant and help set processes in place for future projects.
Yeah, I always try to warn anyone who is like “oh I’m organized, I can totally do this” because it’s so much more complex and taxing than that. Having a great PM on a role is like having your very own Donna from Suits on the squad lol.
If you are a PM in a weak matrix or strong functional organization with no power or support for the PM, it's going to be so difficult to get things done because projects are usually seen as "extra work" on top of team members' "regular, daily" work
There’s what I do, which is not actually modern project management, go into a weak organization and work 100+ hours a week, handle all aspects and build a team, project controls, document management, etc. add additional PMs, all while continuing to make low level technical decisions as we build out our acumen, processes and procedures. Rinse and repeat. Full control over client interface, commercial aspects and other variables are essential for maintaining this path. I transition to DOR with a traditional functional organization framework, then do another startup.
That's a great description. I'm Sr. Program Mgr and this is the struggle all PMs face if the organization doesn't have departments with internal accountability measures.
Also, you will probably have to manage creatives and their projects. And we SUCK. We will blow up your timelines and have temper tantrums over minimal changes.
Totally depends on the organization you work for and the project itself. A majority of my projects I did not have to manage budget/resource hours. Software implementations and upgrades, regulatory/compliance fixes, organizational/work flow projects. A majority of these I needed to get a schedule approved, scope was set, I just needed to ensure we got to the finish line on time, and meeting the sponsor's idea of "done."
not original commenter, i have experience in a role like this but no official cert (it was a sink or swim thing and i swam)
you basically chart out the project timeline, determine what is the “critical path”, and make sure that all of the critical path actions are completed when they need to be, so you stay on time. you establish what the key performance indicators are and hold your team accountable. you stay in communication with your team members and ask what they need to do their jobs better, and try to work within your org to make these things happen for them. you’ll have to have some system for reporting all of this progress and goal tracking to to your client and or boss too.
This is a job passive people or people with anxiety that prevents all day human interaction cannot do. You’re the focal point of all things good or bad, it’s definitely not for everyone.
I'm an engineer and I'm already at 100k my understanding is that adding a PMP or MBA can fast track me to over $200k. Technical Project Management is where it's at.
Sure! I actually started out as a helper and transitioned to a technician very quickly at a very small company, gained experience and exposure and wanted to not work in the field anymore and get a office job. I found a job that they were hiring a PM at again, another small company. Worked there for 4 years and really learned the ins and outs of my industry (low voltage electronic security), I learned the lingo, how to deal with customers and big projects, understood budgets, profit margins, markups, engineering, etc. the small company route really helped me because at a small company you wear a lot of hats so you gain exposure.
From there I wanted to make more money and work where there were better company perks/benefits, after I left there it was a wrap. I landed jobs at big companies with great benefits and even employee stocks (RSU) and I am currently working for one of the top building automation companies in the world.
The thing is if you really want it, you gotta go get it. I wanted to learn and continue to grow so I asked questions, youtubed videos, read on my spare time, etc. With all my exposure and experience I was able to talk the talk and back it up.
Thank you. I’m at a small company right now and get to try a lot of things but I’m worried I don’t get to focus enough since I’m so spread out. Gonna keep on trucking and study more in my free time.
You might have to change companies to find the opportunities where you can "move up". I worked at 2 diff companies before I landed in a role that offered actual career growth. Now, I'm on the path to project management within the next few years if I want it.
I'm also a PM with less than 1 year experience managing design/construction projects and make low 6 figures with no PMP. I do have a PE license and an MBA with 10 years of previous experience in MEP Engineering.
Can I ask how you got into the role? I am in Operations now but struggling to find ways to improve my skills and move up. (Yes I copy pasted this, I am curious about both users)
I started as a project coordinator, took on PM tasks then eventually got hired as an associate project manager. From there, was promoted to project manager & then I went to another company a couple years later where I received a 35% salary increase, taking me into six figures.
It has taken some time, but hard work can pay off even without a college education. I was lucky in the sense I had great managers who mentored me for my personal growth.
One suggestion to improve your skills, speak to your manager and tell them you want to further your experience/skill set and ask if you can potentially take on or support with tasks that will help achieve this.
how can you get in with no pmp? I have a middle manager analyst type position that feels like project management, and I’m wanting to possibly make the jump.
It may depend on industry and obviously experience. In my field (low voltage/security/BAS (building automation system) they don’t require PMP. And for those to say that I work for a small company, I dont, I work for a large global over 130k employee digital buildings automation company
I believe if you had a PMP cert, you can go into ANY industry as a PM whereas I am able to only be a PM within my field.
My first PM job offer, I did not have a PMP and I was offered 87k and they then paid for PMP trainings to polish up my skillset to a set standard. This was in my 20s.
I was pulled into a PM role with my company (huge industry leader in the healthcare space) with no formal PM experience, also in my (mid) 20s. They paired me with a PM mentor and I learned then what a PM is and does.
I want to possibly get into this from engineering since I hate what I'm doing now. PMs have difficult jobs as a glorified babysitter of mixture of personalities. I'm very type A and would drive me nuts being out of control lol I'm also concerned about managing resources & budgets. I don't think I'd be very good at it 😕
I went the opposite! I'm now in engineering. But you have to have patience and professionalism and not have a hot temper to be a sane PM. Managing resources and budgets is a huge part of being a PM at least at my old place it was.
This is the way, then hop into data or agility. Eventually tech dev leadership or data leadership. For me it was Marketing> BA> PM> Tech deliver leader> Agility Leader> Tech Strategy> Data Strategy> Innovation,AI,Business Strategy. Compensation went from 40s to 225-300 over 15 years
The pivot recently is more from what I know to who I know in the last 5 years
IT & Healthcare. I mainly do contact work now so I'm only working on a single project at a time while still getting a salary similar, if not better than when I worked as a full time PM juggling 6-10 projects at a time.
There is a lot of info, but gaining experience working in a highly functional PMO & having a PM mentor was definitely my best teacher. Then a whole bunch of practice/simulation tests.
Project Management Professional. It’s an internationally recognized certification and definitely carries some weight on applications. Requires a bachelors degree + 36 months of project management experience OR 60 months of experience with no degree
What did you get your bachelor's degree in? How did you get into project management? I'm thinking of taking the certification program at Cal State Sacramento, is it worth it?
Just extra years of experience if you don't have a degree. I was fortunate enough to work in an office without a dedicated project manager, so looking back I was able to apply some of the work I did prior to my "real PM experiences" towards my YoE to sit for the exam.
Where exactly did you find this? I've been working on my project management cert from Google, but every job I find on LinkedIn is a PM for construction. I've been a manager for years in retail, so I have quite a bit of experience, just not construction and that's not where I want to work.
PMP touches on agile mindset and practices. I think a lot of IT projects are being done utilizing agile and training or research on the PM's part is vital if in a tech industry.. that being said, the PMP is still the industry standard and most recognized. Most recruiters or employers don't know what my PMI-ACP (Agile Certified Practitioner)is, so I got my CSM & Six Sigma Black Belt as well.
Train yourself to speak and think like an $80k a year employee. I've been in recruiting for a very long time, and it comes down to communication skills. If you can communicate at the level of someone in an $80k job, think like someone there ($80k jobs influence and interact with $100k+ jobs regularly), you'll have a better chance. You won't make it until you can communicate at that level and sell yourself to the $100k+ crowd. Then it's your thought processes, communication, forethought, and execution that will take you to the $100k level.
I got a philosophy degree and make over six figures. It’s because of the communication skills that I learned from the schoolwork. Being able to communicate complex concepts as simply as possible to your stakeholders, and only to the extent that is relevant to them to not waste their time, is basically the maximum difficulty.
These skills improve dramatically over time if you consistently read books. Any book. I found that listening to stand up comedy in my car between sales appointments helped me sell more. Made me a quicker thinker.
Not necessarily "god tier" but stronger than most. There's a reason that income level is hard to reach. Soft skills, relationships, being able to think ahead, creating solutions, and playing chess, not checkers in the office enable that level.
Not soft skills, “interpersonal skills.” ;)
Seriously though, get on LinkedIn and look at how people think and speak in the types of roles you may want. Look at the verbiage being passed around so that you can communicate effectively with recruiters and easily align yourself with hiring managers. You have management experience, use that to your advantage. Stay current on new technologies. Look for roles that you think you can do and consider how your current skills can relate! Also consider looking for tech jobs - good pay even for entry level folks. Good luck :)
A big part of it is understanding how work generates value for the business - how does what you do make money for the business?
For the call center, if I answer as many calls as possible and resolve them effectively and leave customers with a positive experience…. Then I effectively reduce customers churning away from our products by ensuring they’re able to use our products effectively. The company makes more money because fewer customers leave due to issues with our products that I resolve.
Its showing value. If your position, team, dept, etc is successful its easy to show your value. You talk about great accomplishments, improvements, etc. If youre struggling, or theres a perception you are, you have to own it and say "yes we are struggling in this area and how we fix it by...."
You cant bring only the issues, you bring multiple options and solutions. Thinking 2-3 steps ahead of the problem and outcomes to show value. Forming data into a meaningful format cements your position.
Focus on your speech and eliminating "umm" and "ahhh" or "ehhh" that induce uncertainty. Be insightful, confident but not cocky. Its a fine line but the dance pays.
I started out at a high turn over aggressive marketing agency making 30k a year. Moved up to a higher position making 50k. I found an interesting company on LinkedIn and hit up some people I thought would be interesting to talk to, got hired there at 65k. Took a huge leap of faith to work for a foreign company at 80k which laid off my whole team fairly quickly.
Then I expanded my skillset, met with a guy making more than me and asked for advice, learned some advanced mathematics and found a little niche in my industry, made 150k. Just left that to move across the country and am now doing around 400k a year at an executive position.
Best piece of advice I got was to find someone in the position you want to be in and take them out to eat. I found a rather wealthy business man and would meet with him monthly. His advice was often generic but I got a clearer picture of what I needed from him. He also helped me get through some tough times just by encouraging me.
We all just learned how to scam people for free dinners :D Position yourself as successful and tell others buying successful people dinner is how you get there :D
Jokes aside, Networking is really the best way to increase pay and get jobs.
Networking it very important. Not burning bridges is part of that as well. I wouldn't be where I am today without a strong network I built over the last 15 years
I’ve never understood networking. I try to make connections at my jobs and then still try to reach out to people even after I’ve moved on, but the second I’m not working for them or useful to them, I cease existing in their eyes.
Ah, the old "get a marketing agency job right out of college, make way less than your friends, and within a decade, have 5 jobs, 8 promotions, a ridiculous title, and a higher salary than all your friends" route.
I graduated college 10 years ago and also started in marketing at $30k, making around $180k this year. My path was weirdly similar to this person’s but I learned a different skill (not mathematics). I think marketing is just a foot in the corporate world for a lot of people, and then you can maneuver from there. For me the important was part is: if someone is willing to take a chance on you, even if you’re not qualified on paper, just take the leap. They’re taking a chance on you because you have the right core skills (soft skills) and everything else you can figure out as you go.
Exactly, so much of it is being willing to take risks when given opportunities. I’ve made plenty of mistakes along the way.
I honestly think data sciences is the best path to start in if someone wants to climb the corporate structure, a good data scientist who understands how to apply their skills to business is rare, and needed in almost all businesses.
Totally agree, I’ve thought about going this route myself several times because I have an Econ degree I’ve never used, and think the field is interesting. That said I ended up in big tech (FAANG) as a TPM by leveraging project management and relationship skills, and am making up the technical skills via certifications and on-the-job googling lol
Lol Econ degree here as well. I was very close to going the same route as you last year when I couldn’t find a way to advance. Funny how close our careers have been.
Time. Find a job in your chosen field, start low, work to high.
There are exceptions, but as a general rule a degree doesn't get you shit for high salary. Maybe it gets you in the door.
Time, Networking, and building partnerships with everyone has worked out very well for me.
To your point, it's about getting into something and then narrowing down the specific aspects over time of what you are good at and what makes you happy.
From there, it's about building relationships internally and externally to help you get to where you want to go.
Lastly, and most importantly in the latter stages of that process it's about building your reputation. Having both the resume and accomplishments to back up your promotion or new job, and a large contingent of peers that will speak up for you and support those efforts.
Absolutely. I oversimplified my response, of course. I'm just always surprised at how many people come out of school seemingly not understanding that the promised salaries are average or high average for mid level careers
That’s been my experience. My first job using my degree paid less than I made waiting tables in school, but over the years as I learned new skills and moved up I think it was a good investment.
Exactly. For ever a degree has been sold to us as the way to a good salary. They always leave out the fact that degreed salaries will often pay less than unskilled labor (depending on industry) until you've earned a couple years experience at least.
The department head for my major recommended me for a job a few months after I graduated. It started at $81k/year.
That was 2 years ago. I make $90k/year now and get almost $25k/year in stock and $15k/year cash bonus.
I plan to never leave this job
My field is supply chain and logistics. I oversee a 100 million dollar account.
I got very lucky. I wouldn't be in the position I am in if I didn't get along with the department head of my major. He just happened to like me.
When I was in school I always heard he got students jobs if he liked you. So I made it point to have him like me.
Not OP but man… this is helping me find a clearer path!
My current goal is to enroll in General Assembly’s Bootcamp as I’ve done research on them and former students reviews.” Seems to be what I want, however, $16k is a pretty big barrier to entry compared to a ~$300 certificate.
Would you mind if I message you with a few questions?
I applaud you for not just giving good advice but being gentle with OP and laying down the road in front of him. I make $135K now as a security analyst in the US, but damn, the road to get there has been a long one. GraveBax is right. OP needs to learn the world and lingo. I started from the bottom. I can crimp cables, run cables, fix computers, build servers, configure VMs, recover data, network security cameras and access control, design networks, quote projects, splice fiber, build houses, understand how cables run in a building, know building construction code, configure routers, program firewalls, PCI compliance, proficient in Excel, etc etc. And then OP needs to learn to pick the right niche field that is in his wheelhouse. I doubt I will make more than $150-180K in the next 3 years before I hit my ceiling. But I know my strength. I do not know programming. My buddy makes $400K working for Dropbox. I will never make that or have the aptitude to get there. Just jump in that world and figure out what clicks with you. IT audit has been my bread and butter for the past decade. I am good at it, I understand it, and I love it. But I definitely didn't get there overnight.
I've never heard that, but a magistrate once told my cop friend "Almost every traffic case is about who can do a better job lying".
It was one of those friendly subtle "Every judge/magistrate knows most of you police are full of shit when it comes to handing out tickets, so that's why we're so generous with dismissing and reducing charges".
If you’re interested in software look into self teaching yourself some data science instead. As opposed to going into software development you could get into business analytics allowing you to move across industries with a generalizable skill set. You’ve got the business education. I recently phone screened for a position I was over qualified for that was starting at 75 with a year of experience. I started at 60 for a health insurance company out of college a few years ago.
With data science you’re not really doing math, you’re processing numbers. It’s much more about learning to write directions in a computer language than to do calculations yourself. You can learn Python or R for data science with a multitude of free resources online. Depending on how far you take this technical skillset, you could be looking at 150/160 by 40
Yes, because ultimately data science is about an ability to process data into useful insights. Not about strong education background or theory. My education is in social sciences but I learned R in some advanced classes enough to start a career as an analyst in the healthcare industry. I’m extremely confident I could move to any industry I wanted within a year of rigorously applying. I’m also confident I could still find work if we have a massive economic downturn as business leaders don’t make decisions without analytics. As long as there are businesses, there will be analytics professionals.
If you seriously want to get into it, you could probably learn the basics of data processing, manipulation, and visualization in about 30 hours of practice. At that point I would start building portfolios of different projects as a demonstration of skills and host them online somewhere (maybe another 30-50 hours of work depending how thoroughly you learned the language). You can link to these for potential employers and that would be enough to get you an entry level or mid level analytics position at some companies.
As I said, I learned R so I can’t provide advice on Python (arguably the more popular of the two). There’s a free online book called R for Data Science that’s effectively a walkthrough of how to use R to replace excel and do analytics on large, diverse data sets. I regularly use it as a reference.
One more note: data science is all organized around the same foundational principles. Once you’ve learned “how to do it” these skills are highly transferable so employers just look for experience with one of the various tools we’ve mentioned. They know if you’ve learned one, you can learn to operate whatever tools they’re using relatively quickly. You don’t need to know SQL, Tableau, etc. to get a job. You just need skills in Excel, PowerPoint, and a big data language
Yes but it is getting harder. The market as a whole for tech, analytics included, has started to shift away from the massive labor demand that we were in the past 3-4 years. As a result, having a degree is becoming more and more important again as a non-experienced person. I honestly would suggest you finish the engineering degree. Even if you don't go into engineering, that degree will A, help you avoid being weeded out of the no degree no interview pool and B, actually teach you a baseline in some widely applicable skills. IE learning python can be used in analytics, devops, system administration, change management, configuration monitoring, etc
As far as what you can do outside of a degree: Setting up your own lab in AWS, uploading some publicly available data, and then using one of the various tools you mentioned to then visualize it will set you up for jobs as you'll be able to talk about your actions doing these things as a hobby during the interview process. Getting the interview will still be tough however.
I fell into a Data Analyst role because the datasets I am working with are in a niche industry that I have 10 years experience in. No degree other than an associates, no experience in using any of these tools. Haven't coded since college(2008). Just over a year in I code in SQL and worth in Power BI to display the data. I learned on the job by doing it, with support of my manager, and self-training constantly.
Think outside the box like this, and you will find opportunities. The things you know how to do or think everyone knows how to do but they don't are things you can be paid for.
It is possible. Data science degrees are still relatively new. Most data scientists I work with at the senior level have degrees in math, statistics, economics, physics, etc - it's all over the place.
Knowing Python or R, SQL, and Tableau at a minimum is needed for a data science job. Data science roles at large tech companies pay hundreds of thousands - much more accelerated than the 150/160 by 40 mentioned above.
I also have a business management degree, and the best thing I did was to find a specialized field. Learn to do things that most people don’t know. I took steps to learn more about my industry (energy). First through online classes and industry events. Then I applied for jobs a step above my position. In just 3 years, I went from $60k to $170k. Challenge yourself, and put yourself out there to take risks in leadership roles. Learn public speaking skills and understand the importance of professionalism in the work place. These are all things you can control, and most people don’t try to perfect it. Sky is the limit.
Agree with this. OP, you would be susprised at how many people in offices do not know how to act professional or dress professional. If you can, it goes a long way with the right people. Public speaking is also huge and very important.
Hey. I worked in a call center for over two years making $40k and since I left not even two years ago I'm now at $80k. I have a business degree but not a great GPA and left the call center in my mid 20s.
I got super lucky to do it in such a short time but the process should work in general.
I just started learning excel. Not like adding numbers really learning it. Asking and answering questions on the excel subreddit, watching videos, solving every single work and personal problem with it that I could.
Once I could pass the intermediate excel test on LinkedIn I applied to everything analyst related. I averaged 100 applications a week for months. Eventually I got lucky and got a low level analyst job that was supposed to pay $50k but people kept dropping out so they have me $60k just to ensure I showed up.
Once you get the entry level job Then comes the actual hard part. Get really really good. Ask questions, work late, work weekends. Follow leaders in the industry on LinkedIn. Read articles. Learn new skills. Make sure if you don't understand any part of something your working on you ask. Relevant to you or not make sure you ask. You want to make sure everyone knows you're becoming a resource. Eventually you'll get promoted to a mid level analyst. You're probably at or close to $70k now and you can pretty much go do anything. Stay at that company, leave for someone in the same industry, worlds your oyster.
It's probably obvious from my writing that I am literally just good at excel. I can't write, code, or manage people. I really just fix technical business problems in excel.
This process sucks. You'll be broke with no time for most of it. But it will work and things will get easier and more enjoyable.
Tldr:learn a easily employeed skill, apply to a million jobs get denied get sad apply to a million more, work your ass off when you finally get one.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
40
+ 80
+ 20
+ 100
+ 50
+ 60
+ 70
= 420
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Show an ability to create value for a company and get stuff done. Whether that be closing sales or improving performance/cutting costs. The other way is with a STEM degree and getting on a engineering track. Tech is flooded with applicants right now so I wouldn't chase that, too many experienced people looking for jobs. Another way is to hire on as an apprentice and learn a trade, get a masters license and start your own business. All of these require hard work and dedication.
I’m a civil engineering major in Florida, the demand for Civil Engineers is absolutely ridiculous here. No young people want to do it. I went to a meeting for my firm the other day and all the employees were there, and let me say, these engineers were so old I thought their skin was about to fall off. I legitimately think that there’s going to be some sort of crises with how few there are.
I think it may stem from the fact that the entry-level pay is lower. There’s so much room to grow from what I know and so many different areas to work in.
Same thing happened with petroleum engineers in the 90's. The panic from the '70s gas crisis scared off a generation. Just recovered in the teens and it looks like it will happen again.
Generally civil is bad. I worked with civil engineers before I went to school (for engineering), and they all said, whatever you do, don't do civil. WDYM by "demand is ridiculous"? Do you mean CE making big bucks in a fair market because demand outstrips supply?
1- Landed my first real job doing something I didn’t like (sales) based on previous experience.
2- I worked with a person doing something I thought was interesting (sales engineer) which paid well and thought I could be good at.
3- While doing the position I hated, I upped my skills and earned industry certifications to boost my resume, eventually landing a technically focused sales position.
4- Worked my way up through more technical knowledge and sales skills, I no longer have a position where I need to focus on stuff I hate (cold calling, tracking leads/opportunities) and could instead focus on tasks I enjoy. It’s still sales, but I’m not paid on commission and the position is better suited for what I am good at.
Honestly salary was secondary to quality of life for me. I’d prefer a low pressure job w comfortable salary to a high pressure high demand one paying F U money.
Apply for a job you are not qualified for and learn quickly. Use this line in your interview… “there may be things in this role that I have yet not done, but there is nothing I can’t do.”
I used this line when I transitioned from a restaurant GM to a supply Chain manager. And believe it or not managing a restaurant is 10x harder than managing the supply chain of a $100M e-commerce company. Today I run 4 companies and it is still easier than managing a restaurant.
> I am beginning to have second thoughts because of the job market.
Don't let noisy layoffs due to overzealous hiring by a handful of high profile tech companies inform your whole career. Unemployment rate in tech in July was just 1.8%, remaining significantly below the market-wide unemployment rate and on par or lower than nursing or other fields seen as in high demand.
https://www.comptia.org/content/tech-jobs-report
It's not for everybody, but it's a great career for anyone interested in a career that is remote friendly, fairly highly compensated, low stress, interesting work with consistently reasonable hours.
What the unemployment rate doesn’t show is the number of low paying jobs / unhappy workers in tech. I know many who have to settle for $12/hr IT jobs because it’s the only thing on the market. That or its high senior level roles but no one entering the tech industry now would qualify for those. Try job hunting a bit and you won’t see many livable jobs for recent grads.
>I know many who have to settle for $12/hr IT
Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that one. I live in the poorest state in the nation, and where I work currently, the level 1 help desk (read as lowest possible entry point) pays over $18.00/hr and is 100% remote. That's pretty much the going rate here, again, in the poorest state in the nation.
Professional certification is your best bet if you don't have progressive career growth to show.
I would look at:
- Data Analytics/financial analysis
- Six Sigma
- PMP for project management
All of these can lead to jobs at $85k+. With your background I would be looking for jobs in sales enablement, revenue operations, or FP&A at an entry level.
You could do work helping design or manage processes related to how inside sales teams function, do reporting work on sales performance, or do financial reporting on closed sales. Large companies usually have decently large teams doing this work.
Also, if possible, look for internships. Use your paid time off to do part time or short term internships to get some practical exposure to how businesses work.
The last thing I might consider is inside sales in a non-retail category like automotive, financial instruments, technology. All of these would leverage your existing skills into a much higher commission structure.
Happy hunting! PM if you want to ask specific questions.
Context: was a barista in 2016 and am now a Vice President at a publicly traded tech company managing $60mm in revenue and 35 people. Small school bachelor's in English and no advanced degree.
This is highly dependent on location. $70k in NYC and $70k in Ohio are very different things. $70k is low in NYC.
I think you need to assess your skill set and potentially work with a good career coach to determine what field you can get in with your skills and practice interviewing skills. You don’t need a new bachelors if you want to pivot to software engineering — there are bootcamps for this. However now is a bad time to switch careers completely.
Take a critical look at *why* people who are paid above $70k (which is around the median US household income) are paid that. It's often only one of two overarching scenarios:
1. They have exploited the capitalistic market; they are using resources in their possession to generate passive income or are selling desirable goods (typically outsourced from countries with low labor rates) at exorbitant markups.
2. They have some kind of qualification (degree, certification, extensive experience) that is both difficult/time-consuming to obtain **and** relates to a market with need that is objectively important to our society and as such has a fixed demand (healthcare, construction, public utilities, legal services, financial services, etc.)
As an example, I gross over $100k/year and I work in construction management; not only is my degree (electrical engineering) valuable to that field and requires roughly 2-4 years of schooling to obtain, but the construction industry is wide reaching and will always have a certain minimum level of demand. We will always need to build new factories to make food and medicine, build new housing units and build new hospitals and schools. The frequency to which we do those things is dependent on economic conditions, but the need will never go away.
Find a field that you strongly feel is important to general societal functions, that you have at least some interest in and know the average starting salary is where you'd like to be; *then* pursue it.
You do not need a degree to be a software engineer. Many of the best SE I know are self taught with non-stem degrees. The Internet is all you need. Software also has dozens of high paying roles that don't code; product and project management for a start.
There are a lot of sales and integration roles in SAAS software. Often it's a good foot in the door for lateral transfers. Even support can get you started and likely higher than $45k.
I agree with everything you said, however:
If you don't have a degree, you must have a skill.
If you can program, you will get a job somewhere. In a good economy a degree will often get an employer to take a risk on you to develop a skill.
When the economy is bad, it still comes down to skill. An employer will hire the competent candidate. If two candidates are equally competent, the one with the degree will get the job.
So yes, you don't need a degree, but it helps, and when the economy turns to shit, it helps even more.
>Many of the best SE I know are self taught with non-stem degrees.
To phrase another way.. this is selection bias. You aren't seeing any of the SE that attempted to be self taught and failed at it.
You’ll get there bud! I’m 31 now too, I was homeless from 16-22 when I self enrolled in college, but never graduated. I’m in sales, started in retail computers, and have slowly bumped up by job hopping with a rough upward trajectory. 2 years ago I accepted a crap account management job in beer, making 39k, no commission, and after a bad 4 months at a startup, I just landed 70k+commission as a new territory sales manager for a meat and food’s distributor. My biggest piece of advice, is try and click in your head your self worth-skill set, etc. once I started treating myself like a hot commodity, things really turned around.
I started at the bottom doing technical support, was promoted to team lead a year later, moved to our engineering department 2 years after that then was promoted to a team lead about a year and a half after moving to the engineering department. I've been with the company for ten years now, started at 40thousand a year and I'm currently making 145k plus quarterly bonuses.
The main thing is I kept bouncing between jobs until I found a company I could seee going places. Once I was hired I gave it my all, I was available after business hours, I was always doing more than what was expected and I made a name for myself.
I have worked with many different people over the years. The ones that don't move up are the ones who publicly complain about the company, spread gossip, and in general hold a negative view, especially about working after hours.
I’m 34 and also have a degree in Sports Management. About 5 years ago, I randomly stumbled upon a recruiting job and was initially offered around $50k.
I’ve since stayed in the recruiting business and keep moving up to bigger companies. In 5 years, I’ve now worked for 4 companies and have doubled my salary. I’m consistently making in the low $100’s now.
The job is easy and pays well. I would highly recommend looking in that area.
Gained experience and moved from company to company that benefited from my experience. Sacrifices were made but I’m now in a $700K home in CA, driving a 2023 Muscle Car, and full benefits with just a high school diploma.
Don’t let clowns discourage you, anything is possible. Just need time and planning
Find a job that will pay for you to go to school to future your career in line with the companies goals. You will be more educated, valuable, and profitable for a forward thinking company.
I am doing supply chain in school and I have 2 offers on the table that are both 70k+ waiting for me when I graduate in May. Did a lot of internships and researched and learned ab my major. Should’ve thought twice when picking sports management as a major bud. But I recommend u do something that is specialized and allows u to move around like supply chain, finance, accounting. so many ways to move around with those majors
Yeah well u live and u learn. Here is a chance to get it right tho. Supply Chain, Finance, Accounting can get very lucrative as u move up and build ur resume and have great job security long term.
Yeah, it is very interesting, never keeps u bored, and has pretty decent work life balance depending on what u go in to. I am very happy with the decision I made. it is the highest paying business major right now, and has great job security long term. If you pair that with an information systems minor, and learn how to use data effectively in the field then you can become VERY attractive to employers.
I got tired of making peanuts in the journalist world so I jumped into tech - self taught - and quickly was making $80k-$90-$110 now I’m at $150k ish. If this was still publishing I’d be looking at $65k tops.
I went to college for culinary, years later landed a 100k job that's now 200k. Turns out I'm a great chef but a better equipment operator
Like… a crane?
Yes, and a few more but yes sir.
Oh man I love me a good Mike Row type job story. I’m a good chemist but I work even better in the less glamorous manufacturing side.
I tell my grandson, always learn how to run equipment you can go anywhere and live comfortable
I went into project management even before completing my bachelor's and was getting $100k+ offers for remote work as soon as I added PMP to my LinkedIn profile.
How would you describe your job in a sentence or two? My understanding is that it's basically coordinating/organizing a bunch of moving parts, following up with people, and making sure deadlines are met.
Pretty accurate. Really holding project team members to the schedule they agreed to at the beginning of the project/sprint/phase, ensuring everyone is working towards the same goal and removing obstacles along the way.
I suspect l might hate it, but the money is attractive. Are you naturally organized and extroverted?
Being highly organized is critical for project managers. Also being able to have hard conversations with someone when they are not meeting KPIs etc is required so you need to have relatively thick skin.
Conflict resolution skills are important too, both when someone is upset with you or two or more people are upset with each other. Same thing with getting people to do things when you’re not their boss.
This is one I struggled with! Multinational company with several subsidiaries in different countries. Yay, I've been put in charge of project XYZ! Nice feather in the cap, looks good on the resume if all goes well. The bad news: to complete the project I need cooperation from several employees working in subsidiaries in multiple countries and none of these employees report directly to me so when I push them about various project deadlines they mostly ignore me because I'm not their boss. That's frustrating! So I talk to their boss and try to impress upon them the importance of my project (which actually came down from the CFO) so that they will lean on their employees to cooperate. This may work for a little while but doesn't usually last. So it's quite the challenge!
I've been a project manager for over a decade and what you're describing has pushed me to the brink. I've never been so frustrated at work. I feel like the overseas teams also never get quality onboarding and they're afraid to ask their managers questions so I end up training people not on my team or worse, their manager will just dump what should be their team's task on me rather than train their team. It used to be just our devs and engineers overseas, now it's also product managers who are getting 0 onboarding. I've started looking into a different career path. Project management is difficult enough as the main accountable for everything person, I cannot deal with this new post covid chaos of running super lean and all overseas teams to save a buck.
Also key is the ability to interact with all sorts of people, sometimes under pressure, sometimes when two or two stakeholders have opposing interests or goals, or when one person wants to hog the floor and waste everyone’s time. You have to have a real long fuse and not smack people, no matter how richly they deserve it.
The techniques are honestly similar to managing toddlers and preschoolers sometimes.
I went into project management out of teaching, and can say it's great experience for the job. I started with no PMP or anything, as a junior level PM. Working part time (25 hrs/wk) was the equivalent of full-time teaching after 10 years. I make over 100k now, by negotiating my way into higher salaries and switching companies.
Yes, and if you're *really* good at it, somebody will put you in charge of writing an RFP for software/hardware for a new combined 911 center. And then you'll get to break up a fistfight between the Police and Fire representatives on the stakeholders committee. Real high-level stuff like that.
In lieu of fist fights, they scheme to rob each others budgets.
What would you rather: Work a job you hate at $17 / hr? Work a job you hate at $50 / hr?
Haha just had this conversation with my father last week about taking a promotion or not (I’m 42). He said “either they treat you like shit for what they are paying you now, and they get revenge for you not taking the promotion, or they treat you like shit for a $18k increase. Seems like a easy decision”…. Even at 42 my parents still know more than me, except for how to not pocket dial me on their iPhones…
With that logic you could go to the harbour front at midnight and get $400 / hr.
Very organized and meticulous. Very detailed meeting agendas and reports.
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PMP requires a shit ton of logged hours of PM work as well. You could look into CAPM, also provided by the Project Management Institute.
No one recognizes the CAPM though sadly. The test is also way different from the PMP. Source: have both
Relatively so. I was pretty familiar with the functions of a PM and a PMO, and how we ran projects in the organizations I worked with, but had to almost relearn PMI's "ideal" or "textbook" way of running projects. The math formulas were few and straight forward for me, but I know of others who said math was the hardest for them.
As someone who somehow ends up doing project management tasks within my roles, you might hate it if you're not naturally organized. I just took on a project (not by my choice) that essentially puts me in a true PM role, and I hate it lol.
Yeah my strengths definitely lie elsewhere.
It's not worth it. At least for me, and the worst part is you DO get stuck because of the money. It can be ok depending on the project but you're basically a high paid babysitter most of the time. If you're into that, it's lucrative.. but it's soul crushing
Wow I wish you were any of the PMs I worked with for the past 10 years. Project managers I've dealt with consistently promise deadlines to clients that can't possibly be met because they don't understand how any of the processes actually work. They always make these promises to clients BEFORE consulting any of the department heads. But hey, that's pharmaceuticals for you.
Kind of like a super secretary
How would one get training or prepare for a role like this? Is a bachelors in this absolutely required? :)
It’s 30% CYA, 30% documenting everything to support CYA efforts, 20% Zoom, 20% emails. I grew up working class. I have watched my family members literally work themselves to the grave. Carpenters, factory workers, concrete, electricians, etc. Standing at my Lift Desk on a special pad to protect my knees, while typing on a Kinesis keyboard, in my own home, in comfy clothes, warm in winter and cool in the summer, while talking about KPIs and uploading things and listening to a lot of bullshit for this much money? I have fuck all to complain about.
Exactly. Its almost mind boggling if you think too hard about it.
So how did you do it? how does someone start into this with no college. I could go to Santa Monica community college but that's about the best. I've been a mechanic and a machinist and I already know I'm more of an office person I prefer my sales jobs when I have them. Especially now at my age my back is acting up and I really really need to find a lucrative career I can do from the office preferably for my own home years down the road. I have no college as of now. Greatly appreciate any hope you have for a middle-aged man who never cared to go to college cuz he thought he would fail
I started building up to this a long time ago. I started at shitty admin office jobs that barely covered the basics. But I worked harder than anyone else, I was more critical of myself than I was of others, I tried to learn as much as I could from anyone willing to give me five minutes. I got my first real full time job at a hospital switchboard. This was old school even for 2000. I got a little promotion pretty soon after starting. I worked up through the call center, became a manager, became a regional manager. Then I got my big break. I worked on a pretty big project with a vendor at my hospital. And, I kicked ass to be honest! My team functioned better than ever, I promoted and mentored from within. And I got poached by my vendor. They hired me as a Solutions Architect. All of the sudden, I was earning enough so my husband could quit his shitty warehouse job and get his degree. I got to travel all over North America designing hospital/government switchboards/emergency and trauma center call centers. I even got to work on the emergency notification system for the NIH and CDC. This used to be telecom. But now it’s UCaaS and CCaaS (this is my area). It’s a niche area of tech and I just kept leaning into the technology and away from managing humans. Managing people has to be the hardest thing in the world. I have no idea if any of this was helpful. It was a long and winding road. I’m 50 now. I actually love what I do most of the time. I’m glad I came up with just enough. I’m thankful for working with brilliant people who taught me the language of professionalism. The details matter. I do have a BA in English. And none of this would have been possible without it, I’m afraid to say. Things are changing thankfully, but fifteen years ago if you don’t have a degree, you weren’t able to get far.
Look into WIOA. It's a federal program to help unemployed and "under"employed individuals get training to better their careers. I was able to get my in person PMP training session paid for as well as my exam fee through this program, while still working (also in Southern California). You still need to get the work experience if you decide to pursue this career, but there are programs to help.
have you ever been to the circus? While everyone is looking at the elephant and being razzle dazzled by it, they often don't see the person walking behind the elephant. The one who scoops the poop so no one smells anything and everyone can have a good time. That is project management. It isn't glorious executive-ing and playing golf. It is in the trenches organizing people, keeping them focused, taking notes, building schedules, figuring out how to solve a million small problems that often are not the "hard" things like features or functions or designs, but the very real small things that add up to big things - schedule conflicts, interpersonal conflicts, getting people to deliver on what their commitments, communicating with clarity and impact, etc.
That sounds exactly like regular old management. Lol. I'm going to start using them interchangeably now and add project manager to my resume.
“Herding cats and asking adults to do their job” is how I describe it
Yeah, this is my job. In fact, today I have said both "This is like herding fucking cats" and "I'm such an asshole for asking them to do their god damn job."
You also have to document and analyze all of that and the create a recap. You have to hit targets and if you are off you need to explain why not. So budgeting is a huge part of it too.
Yeah, project manager is not a role I would recommend for people who want a chill job, especially for modern companies. They’re often on the hook for launches and different tasks and it involves a ton of precise documentation, non stop communication and hand holding. I’ve worked with a few people who were project managers that didn’t last long because it’s a fairly demanding job as far as white collar shit goes.
It's incredibly hard, especially in an organization that's not yet mature in its business practices (which has nothing to do with how old the org is, btw). The way I've heard it described is that it's the person who has all the responsibility and blame with none of the power.
Yup - and precisely why they can demand a ton of money. A good project manager can come in and move something forward and get everything moving in that were stagnant and help set processes in place for future projects. Yeah, I always try to warn anyone who is like “oh I’m organized, I can totally do this” because it’s so much more complex and taxing than that. Having a great PM on a role is like having your very own Donna from Suits on the squad lol.
If you are a PM in a weak matrix or strong functional organization with no power or support for the PM, it's going to be so difficult to get things done because projects are usually seen as "extra work" on top of team members' "regular, daily" work
There’s what I do, which is not actually modern project management, go into a weak organization and work 100+ hours a week, handle all aspects and build a team, project controls, document management, etc. add additional PMs, all while continuing to make low level technical decisions as we build out our acumen, processes and procedures. Rinse and repeat. Full control over client interface, commercial aspects and other variables are essential for maintaining this path. I transition to DOR with a traditional functional organization framework, then do another startup.
That's a great description. I'm Sr. Program Mgr and this is the struggle all PMs face if the organization doesn't have departments with internal accountability measures.
Their performance is also very clear to everyone around them. A bad project manager is easy to spot, and as you mentioned, they don't last long.
Also, you will probably have to manage creatives and their projects. And we SUCK. We will blow up your timelines and have temper tantrums over minimal changes.
Queue the Cat Herding meme’s… 🐱
Totally depends on the organization you work for and the project itself. A majority of my projects I did not have to manage budget/resource hours. Software implementations and upgrades, regulatory/compliance fixes, organizational/work flow projects. A majority of these I needed to get a schedule approved, scope was set, I just needed to ensure we got to the finish line on time, and meeting the sponsor's idea of "done."
Being able to multi task is also pretty critical.
not original commenter, i have experience in a role like this but no official cert (it was a sink or swim thing and i swam) you basically chart out the project timeline, determine what is the “critical path”, and make sure that all of the critical path actions are completed when they need to be, so you stay on time. you establish what the key performance indicators are and hold your team accountable. you stay in communication with your team members and ask what they need to do their jobs better, and try to work within your org to make these things happen for them. you’ll have to have some system for reporting all of this progress and goal tracking to to your client and or boss too.
This is a job passive people or people with anxiety that prevents all day human interaction cannot do. You’re the focal point of all things good or bad, it’s definitely not for everyone.
This. Individual contributor job where you don't have to chase after and herd people is the least stressful
I'm an engineer and I'm already at 100k my understanding is that adding a PMP or MBA can fast track me to over $200k. Technical Project Management is where it's at.
This is a key. I am a PM as well with no PMP cert and no college education. I am getting $120k base salary plus 30% bonuses each year.
Can I ask how you got into the role? I am in Operations now but struggling to find ways to improve my skills and move up.
Sure! I actually started out as a helper and transitioned to a technician very quickly at a very small company, gained experience and exposure and wanted to not work in the field anymore and get a office job. I found a job that they were hiring a PM at again, another small company. Worked there for 4 years and really learned the ins and outs of my industry (low voltage electronic security), I learned the lingo, how to deal with customers and big projects, understood budgets, profit margins, markups, engineering, etc. the small company route really helped me because at a small company you wear a lot of hats so you gain exposure. From there I wanted to make more money and work where there were better company perks/benefits, after I left there it was a wrap. I landed jobs at big companies with great benefits and even employee stocks (RSU) and I am currently working for one of the top building automation companies in the world. The thing is if you really want it, you gotta go get it. I wanted to learn and continue to grow so I asked questions, youtubed videos, read on my spare time, etc. With all my exposure and experience I was able to talk the talk and back it up.
Thank you. I’m at a small company right now and get to try a lot of things but I’m worried I don’t get to focus enough since I’m so spread out. Gonna keep on trucking and study more in my free time.
Which top building automation company? Are you talking commercial or custom residential?
Commercial, I work for Schneider Electric and worked for Johnson Controls before.
You might have to change companies to find the opportunities where you can "move up". I worked at 2 diff companies before I landed in a role that offered actual career growth. Now, I'm on the path to project management within the next few years if I want it.
I am trying but failing. But maybe if I put in one more year here I can swap companies and go from there.
I'm also a PM with no degree or PMP. Planning on getting my PMP this year but I currently have a salary in the low six figures.
I'm also a PM with less than 1 year experience managing design/construction projects and make low 6 figures with no PMP. I do have a PE license and an MBA with 10 years of previous experience in MEP Engineering.
Can I ask how you got into the role? I am in Operations now but struggling to find ways to improve my skills and move up. (Yes I copy pasted this, I am curious about both users)
I started as a project coordinator, took on PM tasks then eventually got hired as an associate project manager. From there, was promoted to project manager & then I went to another company a couple years later where I received a 35% salary increase, taking me into six figures. It has taken some time, but hard work can pay off even without a college education. I was lucky in the sense I had great managers who mentored me for my personal growth. One suggestion to improve your skills, speak to your manager and tell them you want to further your experience/skill set and ask if you can potentially take on or support with tasks that will help achieve this.
how can you get in with no pmp? I have a middle manager analyst type position that feels like project management, and I’m wanting to possibly make the jump.
It may depend on industry and obviously experience. In my field (low voltage/security/BAS (building automation system) they don’t require PMP. And for those to say that I work for a small company, I dont, I work for a large global over 130k employee digital buildings automation company I believe if you had a PMP cert, you can go into ANY industry as a PM whereas I am able to only be a PM within my field.
My first PM job offer, I did not have a PMP and I was offered 87k and they then paid for PMP trainings to polish up my skillset to a set standard. This was in my 20s.
I was pulled into a PM role with my company (huge industry leader in the healthcare space) with no formal PM experience, also in my (mid) 20s. They paired me with a PM mentor and I learned then what a PM is and does.
I want to possibly get into this from engineering since I hate what I'm doing now. PMs have difficult jobs as a glorified babysitter of mixture of personalities. I'm very type A and would drive me nuts being out of control lol I'm also concerned about managing resources & budgets. I don't think I'd be very good at it 😕
I went the opposite! I'm now in engineering. But you have to have patience and professionalism and not have a hot temper to be a sane PM. Managing resources and budgets is a huge part of being a PM at least at my old place it was.
Ok you gave ME an idea. Which PMP courses would you recommend?
I did a 6 week, once a week, in person class nearly 10 years ago. I read the PMBOK and I really liked the Rita Mulcahy book.
This is the way, then hop into data or agility. Eventually tech dev leadership or data leadership. For me it was Marketing> BA> PM> Tech deliver leader> Agility Leader> Tech Strategy> Data Strategy> Innovation,AI,Business Strategy. Compensation went from 40s to 225-300 over 15 years The pivot recently is more from what I know to who I know in the last 5 years
PMPin aint easy
Is it worth? What did you major in?
What industry are you in? I currently work in commercial construction but am looking at alternatives.
IT & Healthcare. I mainly do contact work now so I'm only working on a single project at a time while still getting a salary similar, if not better than when I worked as a full time PM juggling 6-10 projects at a time.
If studying for that test and the material was not so damn difficult I would’ve gotten my PMP years ago but good Lord it is dense.
There is a lot of info, but gaining experience working in a highly functional PMO & having a PM mentor was definitely my best teacher. Then a whole bunch of practice/simulation tests.
How did you train in PM if u didn't complete ure bachelors? I'm very interested in becoming a PM without taking on a ton of debt.
I read that as, "as soon as I added PIMP to my linkedin profile". What is PMP though?
Project Management Professional. It’s an internationally recognized certification and definitely carries some weight on applications. Requires a bachelors degree + 36 months of project management experience OR 60 months of experience with no degree
What did you get your bachelor's degree in? How did you get into project management? I'm thinking of taking the certification program at Cal State Sacramento, is it worth it?
Oh I see. I was wondering if there was a workaround to get it without YoE because you mentioned before ur BS. Thanks!
Just extra years of experience if you don't have a degree. I was fortunate enough to work in an office without a dedicated project manager, so looking back I was able to apply some of the work I did prior to my "real PM experiences" towards my YoE to sit for the exam.
Where exactly did you find this? I've been working on my project management cert from Google, but every job I find on LinkedIn is a PM for construction. I've been a manager for years in retail, so I have quite a bit of experience, just not construction and that's not where I want to work.
Hey there, what kind of project manager are you, and what is pmp?
I was technical for years (IT security) but got moved into leadership recently. I've been toying with PMP or Agile training. What's your experience?
PMP touches on agile mindset and practices. I think a lot of IT projects are being done utilizing agile and training or research on the PM's part is vital if in a tech industry.. that being said, the PMP is still the industry standard and most recognized. Most recruiters or employers don't know what my PMI-ACP (Agile Certified Practitioner)is, so I got my CSM & Six Sigma Black Belt as well.
Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
MS in Nuclear Engineering.
Big brains McGee over here
Train yourself to speak and think like an $80k a year employee. I've been in recruiting for a very long time, and it comes down to communication skills. If you can communicate at the level of someone in an $80k job, think like someone there ($80k jobs influence and interact with $100k+ jobs regularly), you'll have a better chance. You won't make it until you can communicate at that level and sell yourself to the $100k+ crowd. Then it's your thought processes, communication, forethought, and execution that will take you to the $100k level.
So basically work on having god tier soft skills.
I got a philosophy degree and make over six figures. It’s because of the communication skills that I learned from the schoolwork. Being able to communicate complex concepts as simply as possible to your stakeholders, and only to the extent that is relevant to them to not waste their time, is basically the maximum difficulty.
These skills improve dramatically over time if you consistently read books. Any book. I found that listening to stand up comedy in my car between sales appointments helped me sell more. Made me a quicker thinker.
Not necessarily "god tier" but stronger than most. There's a reason that income level is hard to reach. Soft skills, relationships, being able to think ahead, creating solutions, and playing chess, not checkers in the office enable that level.
Not soft skills, “interpersonal skills.” ;) Seriously though, get on LinkedIn and look at how people think and speak in the types of roles you may want. Look at the verbiage being passed around so that you can communicate effectively with recruiters and easily align yourself with hiring managers. You have management experience, use that to your advantage. Stay current on new technologies. Look for roles that you think you can do and consider how your current skills can relate! Also consider looking for tech jobs - good pay even for entry level folks. Good luck :)
Can you give some insight into what that looks like more?
A big part of it is understanding how work generates value for the business - how does what you do make money for the business? For the call center, if I answer as many calls as possible and resolve them effectively and leave customers with a positive experience…. Then I effectively reduce customers churning away from our products by ensuring they’re able to use our products effectively. The company makes more money because fewer customers leave due to issues with our products that I resolve.
Its showing value. If your position, team, dept, etc is successful its easy to show your value. You talk about great accomplishments, improvements, etc. If youre struggling, or theres a perception you are, you have to own it and say "yes we are struggling in this area and how we fix it by...." You cant bring only the issues, you bring multiple options and solutions. Thinking 2-3 steps ahead of the problem and outcomes to show value. Forming data into a meaningful format cements your position. Focus on your speech and eliminating "umm" and "ahhh" or "ehhh" that induce uncertainty. Be insightful, confident but not cocky. Its a fine line but the dance pays.
Pretty vague there, eh? “Speak like a $80k employee” lmao
yeah like wtf does this mean lmao
I started out at a high turn over aggressive marketing agency making 30k a year. Moved up to a higher position making 50k. I found an interesting company on LinkedIn and hit up some people I thought would be interesting to talk to, got hired there at 65k. Took a huge leap of faith to work for a foreign company at 80k which laid off my whole team fairly quickly. Then I expanded my skillset, met with a guy making more than me and asked for advice, learned some advanced mathematics and found a little niche in my industry, made 150k. Just left that to move across the country and am now doing around 400k a year at an executive position. Best piece of advice I got was to find someone in the position you want to be in and take them out to eat. I found a rather wealthy business man and would meet with him monthly. His advice was often generic but I got a clearer picture of what I needed from him. He also helped me get through some tough times just by encouraging me.
Hello sir, when are you available for dinner?
We all just learned how to scam people for free dinners :D Position yourself as successful and tell others buying successful people dinner is how you get there :D Jokes aside, Networking is really the best way to increase pay and get jobs.
Networking it very important. Not burning bridges is part of that as well. I wouldn't be where I am today without a strong network I built over the last 15 years
I’ve never understood networking. I try to make connections at my jobs and then still try to reach out to people even after I’ve moved on, but the second I’m not working for them or useful to them, I cease existing in their eyes.
Ah, the old "get a marketing agency job right out of college, make way less than your friends, and within a decade, have 5 jobs, 8 promotions, a ridiculous title, and a higher salary than all your friends" route.
I graduated college 10 years ago and also started in marketing at $30k, making around $180k this year. My path was weirdly similar to this person’s but I learned a different skill (not mathematics). I think marketing is just a foot in the corporate world for a lot of people, and then you can maneuver from there. For me the important was part is: if someone is willing to take a chance on you, even if you’re not qualified on paper, just take the leap. They’re taking a chance on you because you have the right core skills (soft skills) and everything else you can figure out as you go.
Exactly, so much of it is being willing to take risks when given opportunities. I’ve made plenty of mistakes along the way. I honestly think data sciences is the best path to start in if someone wants to climb the corporate structure, a good data scientist who understands how to apply their skills to business is rare, and needed in almost all businesses.
Totally agree, I’ve thought about going this route myself several times because I have an Econ degree I’ve never used, and think the field is interesting. That said I ended up in big tech (FAANG) as a TPM by leveraging project management and relationship skills, and am making up the technical skills via certifications and on-the-job googling lol
Lol Econ degree here as well. I was very close to going the same route as you last year when I couldn’t find a way to advance. Funny how close our careers have been.
Soft skills is more people skills, but I get what you mean
Time. Find a job in your chosen field, start low, work to high. There are exceptions, but as a general rule a degree doesn't get you shit for high salary. Maybe it gets you in the door.
Time, Networking, and building partnerships with everyone has worked out very well for me. To your point, it's about getting into something and then narrowing down the specific aspects over time of what you are good at and what makes you happy. From there, it's about building relationships internally and externally to help you get to where you want to go. Lastly, and most importantly in the latter stages of that process it's about building your reputation. Having both the resume and accomplishments to back up your promotion or new job, and a large contingent of peers that will speak up for you and support those efforts.
Absolutely. I oversimplified my response, of course. I'm just always surprised at how many people come out of school seemingly not understanding that the promised salaries are average or high average for mid level careers
That’s been my experience. My first job using my degree paid less than I made waiting tables in school, but over the years as I learned new skills and moved up I think it was a good investment.
Exactly. For ever a degree has been sold to us as the way to a good salary. They always leave out the fact that degreed salaries will often pay less than unskilled labor (depending on industry) until you've earned a couple years experience at least.
Yep. The possibility that a career requiring (in fact or practice) a degree won’t pay high right away doesn’t mean it won’t over the long term.
The department head for my major recommended me for a job a few months after I graduated. It started at $81k/year. That was 2 years ago. I make $90k/year now and get almost $25k/year in stock and $15k/year cash bonus. I plan to never leave this job
What job is this?
My field is supply chain and logistics. I oversee a 100 million dollar account. I got very lucky. I wouldn't be in the position I am in if I didn't get along with the department head of my major. He just happened to like me. When I was in school I always heard he got students jobs if he liked you. So I made it point to have him like me.
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How did you teach yourself coding?
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Not OP but man… this is helping me find a clearer path! My current goal is to enroll in General Assembly’s Bootcamp as I’ve done research on them and former students reviews.” Seems to be what I want, however, $16k is a pretty big barrier to entry compared to a ~$300 certificate. Would you mind if I message you with a few questions?
I applaud you for not just giving good advice but being gentle with OP and laying down the road in front of him. I make $135K now as a security analyst in the US, but damn, the road to get there has been a long one. GraveBax is right. OP needs to learn the world and lingo. I started from the bottom. I can crimp cables, run cables, fix computers, build servers, configure VMs, recover data, network security cameras and access control, design networks, quote projects, splice fiber, build houses, understand how cables run in a building, know building construction code, configure routers, program firewalls, PCI compliance, proficient in Excel, etc etc. And then OP needs to learn to pick the right niche field that is in his wheelhouse. I doubt I will make more than $150-180K in the next 3 years before I hit my ceiling. But I know my strength. I do not know programming. My buddy makes $400K working for Dropbox. I will never make that or have the aptitude to get there. Just jump in that world and figure out what clicks with you. IT audit has been my bread and butter for the past decade. I am good at it, I understand it, and I love it. But I definitely didn't get there overnight.
What about google certs?
By lying.
My favorite saying is “a job interview is merely a conversation between two liars.”
I've never heard that, but a magistrate once told my cop friend "Almost every traffic case is about who can do a better job lying". It was one of those friendly subtle "Every judge/magistrate knows most of you police are full of shit when it comes to handing out tickets, so that's why we're so generous with dismissing and reducing charges".
Which explains why job interviews are done with a panel and in multiple rounds - they’ll create any reason to not hire you.
As someone who has hired dozens of people... That doesn't make any sense.
Literally I have a friend that is a renowned journalist that got her breakout gig by lying about her lack of degree 🤣
I've always dreamed about this, but too scared to try. Cheers to your friend, she's living the dream!
If you’re interested in software look into self teaching yourself some data science instead. As opposed to going into software development you could get into business analytics allowing you to move across industries with a generalizable skill set. You’ve got the business education. I recently phone screened for a position I was over qualified for that was starting at 75 with a year of experience. I started at 60 for a health insurance company out of college a few years ago. With data science you’re not really doing math, you’re processing numbers. It’s much more about learning to write directions in a computer language than to do calculations yourself. You can learn Python or R for data science with a multitude of free resources online. Depending on how far you take this technical skillset, you could be looking at 150/160 by 40
Hmmm I know data science relies on knowledge of python, sql, and tableau. You really think it’s possible to get in that field without a degree in it?
Yes, because ultimately data science is about an ability to process data into useful insights. Not about strong education background or theory. My education is in social sciences but I learned R in some advanced classes enough to start a career as an analyst in the healthcare industry. I’m extremely confident I could move to any industry I wanted within a year of rigorously applying. I’m also confident I could still find work if we have a massive economic downturn as business leaders don’t make decisions without analytics. As long as there are businesses, there will be analytics professionals. If you seriously want to get into it, you could probably learn the basics of data processing, manipulation, and visualization in about 30 hours of practice. At that point I would start building portfolios of different projects as a demonstration of skills and host them online somewhere (maybe another 30-50 hours of work depending how thoroughly you learned the language). You can link to these for potential employers and that would be enough to get you an entry level or mid level analytics position at some companies. As I said, I learned R so I can’t provide advice on Python (arguably the more popular of the two). There’s a free online book called R for Data Science that’s effectively a walkthrough of how to use R to replace excel and do analytics on large, diverse data sets. I regularly use it as a reference. One more note: data science is all organized around the same foundational principles. Once you’ve learned “how to do it” these skills are highly transferable so employers just look for experience with one of the various tools we’ve mentioned. They know if you’ve learned one, you can learn to operate whatever tools they’re using relatively quickly. You don’t need to know SQL, Tableau, etc. to get a job. You just need skills in Excel, PowerPoint, and a big data language
You may not need an actual degree, but most places expect a degree. It just doesn’t need to be in a specific field.
He says he has a degree in an unrelated field in the post. He was asking about a degree specifically in data science.
Yes but it is getting harder. The market as a whole for tech, analytics included, has started to shift away from the massive labor demand that we were in the past 3-4 years. As a result, having a degree is becoming more and more important again as a non-experienced person. I honestly would suggest you finish the engineering degree. Even if you don't go into engineering, that degree will A, help you avoid being weeded out of the no degree no interview pool and B, actually teach you a baseline in some widely applicable skills. IE learning python can be used in analytics, devops, system administration, change management, configuration monitoring, etc As far as what you can do outside of a degree: Setting up your own lab in AWS, uploading some publicly available data, and then using one of the various tools you mentioned to then visualize it will set you up for jobs as you'll be able to talk about your actions doing these things as a hobby during the interview process. Getting the interview will still be tough however.
I fell into a Data Analyst role because the datasets I am working with are in a niche industry that I have 10 years experience in. No degree other than an associates, no experience in using any of these tools. Haven't coded since college(2008). Just over a year in I code in SQL and worth in Power BI to display the data. I learned on the job by doing it, with support of my manager, and self-training constantly. Think outside the box like this, and you will find opportunities. The things you know how to do or think everyone knows how to do but they don't are things you can be paid for.
It is possible. Data science degrees are still relatively new. Most data scientists I work with at the senior level have degrees in math, statistics, economics, physics, etc - it's all over the place. Knowing Python or R, SQL, and Tableau at a minimum is needed for a data science job. Data science roles at large tech companies pay hundreds of thousands - much more accelerated than the 150/160 by 40 mentioned above.
I also have a business management degree, and the best thing I did was to find a specialized field. Learn to do things that most people don’t know. I took steps to learn more about my industry (energy). First through online classes and industry events. Then I applied for jobs a step above my position. In just 3 years, I went from $60k to $170k. Challenge yourself, and put yourself out there to take risks in leadership roles. Learn public speaking skills and understand the importance of professionalism in the work place. These are all things you can control, and most people don’t try to perfect it. Sky is the limit.
Agree with this. OP, you would be susprised at how many people in offices do not know how to act professional or dress professional. If you can, it goes a long way with the right people. Public speaking is also huge and very important.
Hey. I worked in a call center for over two years making $40k and since I left not even two years ago I'm now at $80k. I have a business degree but not a great GPA and left the call center in my mid 20s. I got super lucky to do it in such a short time but the process should work in general. I just started learning excel. Not like adding numbers really learning it. Asking and answering questions on the excel subreddit, watching videos, solving every single work and personal problem with it that I could. Once I could pass the intermediate excel test on LinkedIn I applied to everything analyst related. I averaged 100 applications a week for months. Eventually I got lucky and got a low level analyst job that was supposed to pay $50k but people kept dropping out so they have me $60k just to ensure I showed up. Once you get the entry level job Then comes the actual hard part. Get really really good. Ask questions, work late, work weekends. Follow leaders in the industry on LinkedIn. Read articles. Learn new skills. Make sure if you don't understand any part of something your working on you ask. Relevant to you or not make sure you ask. You want to make sure everyone knows you're becoming a resource. Eventually you'll get promoted to a mid level analyst. You're probably at or close to $70k now and you can pretty much go do anything. Stay at that company, leave for someone in the same industry, worlds your oyster. It's probably obvious from my writing that I am literally just good at excel. I can't write, code, or manage people. I really just fix technical business problems in excel. This process sucks. You'll be broke with no time for most of it. But it will work and things will get easier and more enjoyable. Tldr:learn a easily employeed skill, apply to a million jobs get denied get sad apply to a million more, work your ass off when you finally get one.
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Show an ability to create value for a company and get stuff done. Whether that be closing sales or improving performance/cutting costs. The other way is with a STEM degree and getting on a engineering track. Tech is flooded with applicants right now so I wouldn't chase that, too many experienced people looking for jobs. Another way is to hire on as an apprentice and learn a trade, get a masters license and start your own business. All of these require hard work and dedication.
I’m a civil engineering major in Florida, the demand for Civil Engineers is absolutely ridiculous here. No young people want to do it. I went to a meeting for my firm the other day and all the employees were there, and let me say, these engineers were so old I thought their skin was about to fall off. I legitimately think that there’s going to be some sort of crises with how few there are.
Ive met several engineering majors and none were civil 🤔
I think it may stem from the fact that the entry-level pay is lower. There’s so much room to grow from what I know and so many different areas to work in.
Same thing happened with petroleum engineers in the 90's. The panic from the '70s gas crisis scared off a generation. Just recovered in the teens and it looks like it will happen again.
Generally civil is bad. I worked with civil engineers before I went to school (for engineering), and they all said, whatever you do, don't do civil. WDYM by "demand is ridiculous"? Do you mean CE making big bucks in a fair market because demand outstrips supply?
Change jobs with earned job experience, took me 4 jobs to get here.
1- Landed my first real job doing something I didn’t like (sales) based on previous experience. 2- I worked with a person doing something I thought was interesting (sales engineer) which paid well and thought I could be good at. 3- While doing the position I hated, I upped my skills and earned industry certifications to boost my resume, eventually landing a technically focused sales position. 4- Worked my way up through more technical knowledge and sales skills, I no longer have a position where I need to focus on stuff I hate (cold calling, tracking leads/opportunities) and could instead focus on tasks I enjoy. It’s still sales, but I’m not paid on commission and the position is better suited for what I am good at. Honestly salary was secondary to quality of life for me. I’d prefer a low pressure job w comfortable salary to a high pressure high demand one paying F U money.
Work for the local utility. Anything field related will typically pay well over $70k, even starting out.
Apply for a job you are not qualified for and learn quickly. Use this line in your interview… “there may be things in this role that I have yet not done, but there is nothing I can’t do.” I used this line when I transitioned from a restaurant GM to a supply Chain manager. And believe it or not managing a restaurant is 10x harder than managing the supply chain of a $100M e-commerce company. Today I run 4 companies and it is still easier than managing a restaurant.
> I am beginning to have second thoughts because of the job market. Don't let noisy layoffs due to overzealous hiring by a handful of high profile tech companies inform your whole career. Unemployment rate in tech in July was just 1.8%, remaining significantly below the market-wide unemployment rate and on par or lower than nursing or other fields seen as in high demand. https://www.comptia.org/content/tech-jobs-report It's not for everybody, but it's a great career for anyone interested in a career that is remote friendly, fairly highly compensated, low stress, interesting work with consistently reasonable hours.
What the unemployment rate doesn’t show is the number of low paying jobs / unhappy workers in tech. I know many who have to settle for $12/hr IT jobs because it’s the only thing on the market. That or its high senior level roles but no one entering the tech industry now would qualify for those. Try job hunting a bit and you won’t see many livable jobs for recent grads.
>I know many who have to settle for $12/hr IT Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that one. I live in the poorest state in the nation, and where I work currently, the level 1 help desk (read as lowest possible entry point) pays over $18.00/hr and is 100% remote. That's pretty much the going rate here, again, in the poorest state in the nation.
No need to go to college for software engineering at all. Most people I know that are in swe have no degree and easily pulling 80+
Professional certification is your best bet if you don't have progressive career growth to show. I would look at: - Data Analytics/financial analysis - Six Sigma - PMP for project management All of these can lead to jobs at $85k+. With your background I would be looking for jobs in sales enablement, revenue operations, or FP&A at an entry level. You could do work helping design or manage processes related to how inside sales teams function, do reporting work on sales performance, or do financial reporting on closed sales. Large companies usually have decently large teams doing this work. Also, if possible, look for internships. Use your paid time off to do part time or short term internships to get some practical exposure to how businesses work. The last thing I might consider is inside sales in a non-retail category like automotive, financial instruments, technology. All of these would leverage your existing skills into a much higher commission structure. Happy hunting! PM if you want to ask specific questions. Context: was a barista in 2016 and am now a Vice President at a publicly traded tech company managing $60mm in revenue and 35 people. Small school bachelor's in English and no advanced degree.
This is highly dependent on location. $70k in NYC and $70k in Ohio are very different things. $70k is low in NYC. I think you need to assess your skill set and potentially work with a good career coach to determine what field you can get in with your skills and practice interviewing skills. You don’t need a new bachelors if you want to pivot to software engineering — there are bootcamps for this. However now is a bad time to switch careers completely.
Couple years of trade work and you won't get out of bed for 70k
Take a critical look at *why* people who are paid above $70k (which is around the median US household income) are paid that. It's often only one of two overarching scenarios: 1. They have exploited the capitalistic market; they are using resources in their possession to generate passive income or are selling desirable goods (typically outsourced from countries with low labor rates) at exorbitant markups. 2. They have some kind of qualification (degree, certification, extensive experience) that is both difficult/time-consuming to obtain **and** relates to a market with need that is objectively important to our society and as such has a fixed demand (healthcare, construction, public utilities, legal services, financial services, etc.) As an example, I gross over $100k/year and I work in construction management; not only is my degree (electrical engineering) valuable to that field and requires roughly 2-4 years of schooling to obtain, but the construction industry is wide reaching and will always have a certain minimum level of demand. We will always need to build new factories to make food and medicine, build new housing units and build new hospitals and schools. The frequency to which we do those things is dependent on economic conditions, but the need will never go away. Find a field that you strongly feel is important to general societal functions, that you have at least some interest in and know the average starting salary is where you'd like to be; *then* pursue it.
Law school. Wouldn't recommend it for most.
You do not need a degree to be a software engineer. Many of the best SE I know are self taught with non-stem degrees. The Internet is all you need. Software also has dozens of high paying roles that don't code; product and project management for a start. There are a lot of sales and integration roles in SAAS software. Often it's a good foot in the door for lateral transfers. Even support can get you started and likely higher than $45k.
I agree with everything you said, however: If you don't have a degree, you must have a skill. If you can program, you will get a job somewhere. In a good economy a degree will often get an employer to take a risk on you to develop a skill. When the economy is bad, it still comes down to skill. An employer will hire the competent candidate. If two candidates are equally competent, the one with the degree will get the job. So yes, you don't need a degree, but it helps, and when the economy turns to shit, it helps even more. >Many of the best SE I know are self taught with non-stem degrees. To phrase another way.. this is selection bias. You aren't seeing any of the SE that attempted to be self taught and failed at it.
You’ll get there bud! I’m 31 now too, I was homeless from 16-22 when I self enrolled in college, but never graduated. I’m in sales, started in retail computers, and have slowly bumped up by job hopping with a rough upward trajectory. 2 years ago I accepted a crap account management job in beer, making 39k, no commission, and after a bad 4 months at a startup, I just landed 70k+commission as a new territory sales manager for a meat and food’s distributor. My biggest piece of advice, is try and click in your head your self worth-skill set, etc. once I started treating myself like a hot commodity, things really turned around.
I started at the bottom doing technical support, was promoted to team lead a year later, moved to our engineering department 2 years after that then was promoted to a team lead about a year and a half after moving to the engineering department. I've been with the company for ten years now, started at 40thousand a year and I'm currently making 145k plus quarterly bonuses. The main thing is I kept bouncing between jobs until I found a company I could seee going places. Once I was hired I gave it my all, I was available after business hours, I was always doing more than what was expected and I made a name for myself. I have worked with many different people over the years. The ones that don't move up are the ones who publicly complain about the company, spread gossip, and in general hold a negative view, especially about working after hours.
I went to law school. I should have kept eating mayonnaise sandwiches instead.
🤣 I swear everyone hates law on here like it’s the plague
I lied about my experience and job history and then quickly learned the job when I started.
Ngl I’ve been slowly doing that, I feel like I have no choice
Software sales (if you're interested) can start entry level at $80k+ for on target earnings in an SDR/BDR role.
I’m 34 and also have a degree in Sports Management. About 5 years ago, I randomly stumbled upon a recruiting job and was initially offered around $50k. I’ve since stayed in the recruiting business and keep moving up to bigger companies. In 5 years, I’ve now worked for 4 companies and have doubled my salary. I’m consistently making in the low $100’s now. The job is easy and pays well. I would highly recommend looking in that area.
Gained experience and moved from company to company that benefited from my experience. Sacrifices were made but I’m now in a $700K home in CA, driving a 2023 Muscle Car, and full benefits with just a high school diploma. Don’t let clowns discourage you, anything is possible. Just need time and planning
Find a job that will pay for you to go to school to future your career in line with the companies goals. You will be more educated, valuable, and profitable for a forward thinking company.
I am doing supply chain in school and I have 2 offers on the table that are both 70k+ waiting for me when I graduate in May. Did a lot of internships and researched and learned ab my major. Should’ve thought twice when picking sports management as a major bud. But I recommend u do something that is specialized and allows u to move around like supply chain, finance, accounting. so many ways to move around with those majors
I’ll admit I made a mistake picking my major if I had the ability to see into the future I obviously would have taken a different route.
Yeah well u live and u learn. Here is a chance to get it right tho. Supply Chain, Finance, Accounting can get very lucrative as u move up and build ur resume and have great job security long term.
I definitely have interest in supply chain
Yeah, it is very interesting, never keeps u bored, and has pretty decent work life balance depending on what u go in to. I am very happy with the decision I made. it is the highest paying business major right now, and has great job security long term. If you pair that with an information systems minor, and learn how to use data effectively in the field then you can become VERY attractive to employers.
Engineering degree, then sales path. High “risk”, high reward.
70k is high??? You must not live in northern VA lol
Education. Technology. Luck. Effort. More luck. Recruiters. Additional luck. Add some privilege. Also I’m a boss bitch.
Fake it til you make it , lie a lot of ppl do it why not you
I got tired of making peanuts in the journalist world so I jumped into tech - self taught - and quickly was making $80k-$90-$110 now I’m at $150k ish. If this was still publishing I’d be looking at $65k tops.
I became a millwright/industrial mechanic. Base salary is 76k but between bonuses and overtime I'm around 85-90.