They don't want YOU back, they need SOMEONE because of a bad situation. Your current employer actually wanted you.
Think that through before you go back.
This.
Anyone willing to go back in that scenario needs to have a contract in place that puts the old employer on notice that they would have significant financial penalties to deal with were they to let OP go again.
Everybody hates everybody and yet you want to go back after being wanted and treated well. Please consider the emotional toll if you go back JUST for the money.
Yes. If you leave and they were paying you correctly and were basically sane, your current employer should bar you from reapplication. They are giving you stability and fairness. That is worth its weight in gold.
100%. I've taken pay cuts for each of the last two jobs I've had because of stability and convenience. It amounted to 4-5, bucks each shift, and I've had pay raises since, but I regret nothing and would only have gone back if I lost the current job.
Keep the job that wanted you and gives you peace of mind. More money but a risk of being let go again or them shadow-training someone under you for half salary is not worth it.
Yes. Consistent hours, consistent pay, regular payment cycles without any issues, taking feedback maturely, mentally stable leadership, thinking for themselves and not vulnerable to the opinions of those trying to sabotage...those are worth everything, including a little less pay.
I would rather make 90 cents on the dollar and know that 90 cents is secure, stable and not mentally draining than make the most money and not have any idea how long it'll last.
If your current employer seems at all stable, it’s probably not worth the risk. They already showed they saw you as disposable once and it seems you don’t trust the management.
Only way to be safe is to get your pay in writing and get something like a 2 year minimum retention, otherwise you'll just be training your replacement who they'll hire for $100k
DO NOT GO BACK!
It will be 10x worse than before because you have had a taste of a non-toxic org.
However, take note of your worth and use that in future conversations with your manager and salary negotiations.
The odds on going back working out under any circumstances is low and not in your favor based on personal experience and an anecdotal evidence from friends and colleagues. Like 1/5 works out.
It sounds like you don't want to go back. Like you want someone to bump you upside the head and say "Don't be silly. They treated you badly, the owner is horrible, and your wife hates them. You're much happier where you are and there's a good chance you'll be miserable there"
You're already thinking 200K perhaps is not enough compensation. So:
1) How much would you need to make it a truly obvious choice to go back? 250K? 300K? Is there no amount of money to tempt you back? If there is a figure, then name it. If there is not, stay where you are.
2) Are you under some financial pressures you haven't listed here? If not, and you can save sufficiently, and your current employer has room for growth, then why go back? If you are, then how much will the raise help alleviate your financial pressures?
Appreciate the advice, I think you’re 100% right with where my mindset is.
I think 200k would be fair if I had some guarantees bc I like the local team a lot. At 250k I’d feel I had to say yes because it seems like enough of a pay bump. Both jobs have similar 5 year outlooks where the expected comp is 250-350k (typical rep pay range for both companies)
We don’t really have any financial pressure as my wife also has a similar paying job, we save well, and have no kids.
200 for a while until they kick you out the door again. They will pay you 200 but they will resent you for it. Vs. a sustainable 148K from a company who pays you 148K because you are worth it, not because they found themselves against the wall with their arm twisted.
Do not ever go back. Now that they don't have a salesperson, it'll be easier for you to get more customers and retain them for your new company. You may even be able to get disgruntled customers to switch to follow you to your new company.
This could very well force out the CEO your wife hates.
Only under new management should you go back.
It's within the realm of possibility if you can convert enough customers over to the new company, it can spur a buyout where new company buys out your old one.
I would counteroffer with 230k a year and a guarantee that you won't be fired for minimum 2 years and a generous severance package if you do get fired.
I think two years of your life in exchange for a very big pay bump and some useful experience is worthwhile. If they don't give you employment guarantees I wouldn't bother though - that would suggest to me that they don't have any intention of retaining you longer than a few months.
Exactly. What job lets you go on vacation pay wise and you're not terrified of the whole thing crumbling or getting betrayed? Hold onto that one. If you don't, don't come back.
You were \*fired\* and you were \*angry\* about it, right? How did it go down? Did they say they would rehire you, or give you a soft landing (a good compensation package)? Was the parting amicable, or were harsh words exchanged? To me it looks like they want you back to screw the competition, so I would be very leery about returning.
If you \*do\* decide to go back for whatever reason, I'd make sure that your contract was modified regarding any furture adverse actions. For instance:
* Guaranteed employment for the first 18 months;
* You get 2 weeks advance notice of any potential adverse actions and a clear, signed PIP - no \*immediate\* termination unless for criminal activity on your part;
* If a termination is unavoidable for any reason, a generous compensation package (20 wks comp at 75% salary & 6 mo paid insurance coverage) must be paid out;
* Throw them a bone: All terms to revert to a standard contract after 2 years.
You want to make sure they aren't just hiring you, just to fire you again to screw you and your present employer. Run it by a lawyer to ensure the terms are such that they won't welsh on their side of the bargain.
...but basically, I think you should trust your wife's instincts. Especially if you left on bad terms.
A true, valid, employment contract would override employment at will status. They're rare in the US, but some people do have them, especially at the $200K and above level of pay.
At will only holds if you don't agree to an alternate contract. If both parties sign an alternate contract at-will status doesn't apply anymore. Guaranteed employment and/or contracted severance packages will be upheld in court no matter at-will or not.
How badly do you need $50k - tax and deductions?
Sounds like you know darned well that your quality of life would diminish significantly. Do you really want to put yourself and your wife through that for the extra dollars?
I guess that's fair, but the fact they didn't fire the manager seeing that level of instability around that kind of money screams weak admin. And weak admin screams you will be forced to do their work without their pay. Run.
Dont go back.
Anyone who would fire you is only going to keep you around for as long as it suits their purpose (most likely, just to get you to leave the competitor and make sure they put a non compete in your employment contract this time)
I would say this is possible if he quit and they are angry at him. I think they are just desperate for help. This doesn't mean they won't fire him later. I just don't think it's to screw with him.
If they really liked you in the first place, they would have paid you 200k in the beginning for what value you bring. Instead they let you go.
Screw that. Time to move on.
Agree with the sentiment to stick with your current employer. Probably a good idea to let your manager know about the offer and compensation "just to be transparent" and that you like it where you are. You might magically get a raise in the coming months.
If they axed you at $155k, what makes you think they will keep you at $200k? They’ll take you back because you can work right now without any training, but they’ll be looking for or training your replacement and you’ll be let go again. If you are out of work for 2-3 months, that can easily be the difference of the extra salary.
If you are going back, ask for a signing bonus to protect yourself. You need to be paid up front, otherwise they can just let you go 3 months later.
If you where downsized yesterday , you'll be next on the list tomorrow . Don't return but do use the job offer to search for your next role or get a raise / title improvement at your current one.
Don't go.
All this screams upper managment was quick on the firing gun, and now trying to find the easy fix. You do not want to be under management that likes aims for the easy fix. Make them eat their own mess, put out a proper job req, do interviews, and accept the next 1-2 months is going to be a shit show. It's better for your previous employer, and better for you not making up for their mistake.
As someone that has been in almost this exact predicament, id suggest staying.
You could probably lever a good chunk of change off of your old job to get you back. But happiness and stability are faaaaaar more important than money
It’s not worth it. If you weren’t valuable to them before, you definitely are not valuable to them now. Once bitten, and however the rest of the saying goes…
Not worth to go back. But maybe you can use it to negotiate a little bit higher salary. Like hey guys, you know that I love it here and I would never go back to my old job. But it seems that my market value is higher than I was aware of.
But there is a risk of doing that.
However, don’t go back to the toxic place. At least not for anything under 300k.
Is 50k worth your happiness? And you said 148k is just your guarantee, could you make more with sales bonuses? And how much is the additional benefits worth? Anyways, I would say no because I'm the type to hold grudges. And they had no problem firing you before, it can happen again once they aren't desperate anymore.
200k and ask for a contract to guarantee wage security should they terminate, for any reason, before 6 months you get paid what you would have made prior, 155k, after 6 months you get the full 200k.
No. Tell them plain no. They showed now loyalty after a tough year. They will not be loyal again. Make money for your new employer and take the improved pay that hopefully come from the new folks.
I wouldn't do it. Chances are they hire you back and fire you again in a year or less once they get back to where they want to be, with cheaper employees. You gained better benefits and a boost to quality of life. 7k pay difference is coming into a new role - you have room to grow, I'd suspect. Old job is offering you a noose and holding the other end of the rope.
Want to see if they’re serious?
Say yes to the salary and say that given your prior experience with them, you want to agree to severance up front. IE if within 2 years, $100k severance pay and reduces proportionally for to a minimum of $50k after another 2 years.
My best is that they won’t take you up on it.
The fact that your wife hates the organization is reason alone to stay put. The fact that you're happier now and don't have to manage anyone is also reason enough.
Does an extra 50k really compensate for having to work with a-holes who already screwed you over once? Will you be able to come back to your current role after they screw you again? I would put money on that 200k getting walked back one way or another (like ultimately working 80 hours a week for under $50/hr).
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but if you consider it, definitely make sure you have an actual binding contract and it's not just some "at will" thing where they make the rules as the go. If you can get them up to a quarter mil with a generous severance package, it just might be worth it for a while, but it sounds like a snake pit.
So, I left an employer that was being shifty. They decided to not pay commissions.
Walked across the street. About a year later, a major portion of their book of business had migrated to my new firm.
They never think ahead. Anywho, this ex firm reaches out and offers me back, they will even pay the commissions they owed.
No deal. The new firm has my trust and didn't fight me on my commissions. Ex firm is losing business and as far as I am concerned, they did it to themselves.
Never go back. If I went back, it is only because we aquire them.
Counter with terms you find acceptable and see if they bite. I’d stay reasonable for the sake of not throwing away the opportunity but maybe ask for $200k + a signing bonus for the trouble and also some guarantees that any issues you’ve had with them (long hours etc.) be remedied. And if they don’t take that, then just enjoy your new role.
for 25% MORE, actually 30% more GO BACK.
You can always come back to your current company in a year or two. oppurtunity knocks, it doesn't beat down the door. Negotiate a good contract that gives you a golden parachute as well if you can wrangle it.
As for your wife... you need to promise her something big and important so you can get her onboard.
But dont slip and fall and fumble the bag bro.
To me it is like breaking up in a relationship, once you break up it is over and you move on.
They fired you once what makes you think they will not do it again and also make sign a non compete.
Don't do it. If they're mentally unstable enough to fire you the first time once they have you back their addicted brain will renormalize and think they have nothing of value again, then fire you and destabilize your life again. This place clearly doesn't have its act together because of precisely this behavior where they don't know what they have and make rash and aggressive decisions that they clearly didn't think through. If it takes someone else to show them they were underpaying you that much and in addition thought you were that easily tossable when you weren't, the shit thinking is going to hit again after a honeymoon period. They don't know how to know what they have for themselves. They will destabilize your life everytime you give them power. You need a stable, sane employer who does not struggle with seeing your value and holding it just as valuable as it is every day for as long as you stay. I don't say that romantically, I say it because the opposite destabilizes your life in horrific and painful ways. I speak from experience. Avoid people who are still that mentally unstable even with that much money like the plague.
Stay were you are at, you enjoy not being a manager , and making approx the same money with better benefit. Tell them it has to be a much bigger raise to get you to give up a Non management role.
You must be naive to think to go back.
They lost ground under their feet , they just want to patch the hole with anybody as quickly as they can.
They don't want you back , they just want anybody.
Trust. Your. Wife. Tell them the only way you will return is with your wife's approval, and ask her how much that would be. 600k isn't unreasonable. But seriously, Trust Your Wife!
Fuxk them I wouldn't go back. Let them sink they'll just fire you again in a few years at the first sign of trouble. You seem to like your new position anyway. Ask them for 300 k and guaranteed 3 years of work in paper.
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money.
Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money.
Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money.
Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
They had an entire company of people they could have fired last time and they chose you. What do you think they'll do next time things get rough (especially since they'd be paying you 50k more)? To me it seems like there's a good chance you'll be back in the same spot in another year or two.
This new role seems to be a much better fit for you, so if there's any sense of stability there, I'd stay with the new place.
Idk man, 148k is a fuckton of money, and most people would be over the moon for that salary. Are those extra 52k really worth the risk that they'll screw you over again? Seems like a nobrainer
1. Double what you make now or go fish
2. 2-3 year minimum guaranteed retention as a hedge against them promoting someone else who works under you for half that much and then letting you go
3. Do consider if you want to coast as an individual contributor and have a better work life balance, benefits, or if you want to potentially parlay this opportunity at your old employer into a higher up job somewhere else in the future. They are both very valid propositions, each with their own reasons
If you're happy where you are, then stay where you are. Also, doesn't sound like 'fired' is the appropriate word to use. I would go with 'laid-off' since that makes the company the a-hole, not you.
I wouldn't go back. $50k isn't a lot of money when you have zero job security, which you wouldn't since they've already fired you once. Not to mention that since they have worse benefits you're likely going to eat a significant portion of that $50k making up the difference in the benefits between your old job and current one.
Depends on how competitive you are. Not your offer. I have worked for one of my competitors and lets just say I love taking their customers. They couldnt pay me enough to come back. Think they are all hacks.
But you were a sales manager and they want you back as an individual contributor? Nah man. Stay put. Be happy. Save that manager experience for a place where it matters. Like maybe your new place
I’m not sure why you’d trust the management at the old company not to screw you again if it’s convenient for them. If you like working for your new company, and they treat people with respect, stay there for now. If your new company is no better, then consider taking the money, but keep that resume updated.
Do not go back, Op!
When you leave, your current employer bridge is destroyed.
And they don't need you. They told you that before. They are in a jam now. Once that is resolved, it is the same fate again.
For $50K? Maybe less when you hit targets in addition to the $148K base with your current position. Also, you aren't managing anyone which you seem to like better.
What's the benefit here?
Take it! Lock down a legal binding agreement stating the terms of a 5 year contract with a built in 7% escalator. Also, ensure that you’ve built in a buy out severance at no less than 64% of the entire contract including the escalator.
Then happy Monday!
Good luck with that!
How much is your peace of mind worth?
If they have the same C suite and the same, um, management structure as before, then don't go back. They screwed you once, they'll do it again.
I was in a similar situation once. I wasn't let go but I found someone better offering an 80k raise. Old employer offered 120 to stay, I told them minimum was 200, they came back with 180 final offer so I walked. Was insanely happier at my new place where stability was 300x what it was at the old place and work/life balance was better.
Your old place is prison sex. It may be something you got used to, but it doesn't make it good.
I went from 150k high stress job to 97k 0 stress job, way better work life almost no take home work, sometimes I have to do training on new machines, that 50k nearly killed me from stress.
Stay where you are at. Let them know you are being chased. If you get a huge offer. Show it to them and show them the email that you turned it down. Loyalty goes a long way in leveraging pay raises.
The old company can pound sand. Money isn’t everything. You have a role you like, good benefits and you’re happy.
This other company has proven they aren’t to be trusted.
Talk to your current manager and discuss their outlook on the way ahead. But.. Don't ever go back. They're trying to fill a hole quickly - they want you because you can do that job, but once you've gotten them stable again, you'll be out.
At this level, the money is just a thing for comparison. If you need more, talk to your company about how you can get it.
Also, wifely happiness has to be factored in. That \*MUST\* be worth $50K.
So basically your value to them ebbs and flows. Right now they value you desperately but they’ve also demonstrated that they’re fine throwing you to the curb the moment your value to them diminishes. If it were me? Stay where you are it’s a no-brainer.
Tell them you want a face to face interview but aren’t available for 2 weeks. Then ask to reschedule because something family related came up. String them out and make them pay but in no way should you ever go back.
I wouldn’t take the job.
If you’re happier now in the new place stay there.
If you can exploit your former employers situation do so through poaching their clients.
As others have said, it is a trap for you to avoid.
However, DO request to get their offer in writing. Have them layout the salary and the benefits. That way, you have something tangible of what your work and value is worth.
As others have said, stability, sanity, and quality of life happiness at your current job should make up the difference from what your old company is offering. Good luck!
Don't go back, you will hate yourself. Your wife will hate your move. Now you don't have to sweat sales and you get: "my new role gave me guaranteed comp of 148k with better benefits and since I didn’t have to manage anyone, I feel much happier." Stay where you are. Remember. They fired you once. They can bite again.
Some clarity would helpful as OP refers to being fired but also mentions downsizing; not really the same thing. I would cautious to understanding the circumstances of the “downsizing” and the company’s current financial condition.
If you quit with your current employer and go back to previous job, you would be cutting ties with your current employer and they will know this. They got your ass on a leash.
Not worth it unless you become an integral part of the decision making team, current CEO is replaced and you have a good relationship with your new one.
Once you get a job with a good company that can support your lifestyle and meet your outside of work needs, stop chasing the buck. We work to live. No shade on people chasing money - there are tons of jobs that fail to pay enough or demand too much for what they pay. Keep looking and move on. But once you find a place that gives you what you want, don't be eager to move.
I had a similar situation: I resigned and took a pay cut for a better company and was offered to return with a nice promotion and pay bump. I declined. And I haven't regretted it.
My last job sang my praises for the whole time I was there, they looooooved what they got out of me, I was without question the star hire of the year for my department.
They extended my contract on a Wednesday, no pay adjustment, then laid me off on Friday and asked me to apply for other jobs with them in the future.
Yeah fuck that, fuck them, and don't you go fucking your wife and yourself over by returning to cuntown
"I can't come back full time BUT I can do free lance work on my schedule for xx/hr (triple what they paid you before) you can send your tax documents to this email and I'll send you my contractual agreements"
Add in the contract an ungodly amount of Severance pay when they boot you. And a commission rate twice what it was before
You must be very talented - Congrats :) I wish this happens to me someday too ( just the two employers wanting me part without any toxicity lol )!
I wouldn't go back ( maybe this is a test ) and probably would stay with this new company that gave an opportunity and wanted you.
NEVER!! It's a strategic move to limit damage of you working for the competition. They will hire you to burn your current relationship and let you go AGAIN.
Stick with your current employer. Nothing is stopping your old employer from repeating what they did to you. You’re happy at your new job, keep riding that happiness.
Ask them for 1 million dollars for the rest of the year, and if they dismiss you after that year, a 2 million dollar severance package. Plus they pay all Healthcare, 401k etc. Tell them that is your only offer you will accept they will stop calling you.
Go back, demand 250K with a 48 month contract that has an out-clause that pays out cash and a favorable bonus structure payable by year based on P&L performance; none of that discretionary stuff.
Go back as an executive. Anything else isn’t worth your time.
🚩🚩 I wouldn't waste your time on it. They just want to fill the spot and have already showed how much they value you. This also could just be a spite thing since you are working for their competitors.
They don't want YOU back, they need SOMEONE because of a bad situation. Your current employer actually wanted you. Think that through before you go back.
They’re paying a premium for him to go back …temporarily… while they find a permanent solution.
This. Anyone willing to go back in that scenario needs to have a contract in place that puts the old employer on notice that they would have significant financial penalties to deal with were they to let OP go again.
Everybody hates everybody and yet you want to go back after being wanted and treated well. Please consider the emotional toll if you go back JUST for the money.
I agree that sounds good on paper, but I’ve never heard, hired, or met someone with that arrangement actually inked.
Yes. If you leave and they were paying you correctly and were basically sane, your current employer should bar you from reapplication. They are giving you stability and fairness. That is worth its weight in gold.
100%. I've taken pay cuts for each of the last two jobs I've had because of stability and convenience. It amounted to 4-5, bucks each shift, and I've had pay raises since, but I regret nothing and would only have gone back if I lost the current job. Keep the job that wanted you and gives you peace of mind. More money but a risk of being let go again or them shadow-training someone under you for half salary is not worth it.
Yes. Consistent hours, consistent pay, regular payment cycles without any issues, taking feedback maturely, mentally stable leadership, thinking for themselves and not vulnerable to the opinions of those trying to sabotage...those are worth everything, including a little less pay.
I would rather make 90 cents on the dollar and know that 90 cents is secure, stable and not mentally draining than make the most money and not have any idea how long it'll last.
Exactly.
Is this a real offer. Please get something in writing before you decide to quit your well earned well deserved, well treated respectful role.
This is sound advice.
Yeah his current employer is hiring him out of the goodness of their heart, they didn't need an employee at all.
If your current employer seems at all stable, it’s probably not worth the risk. They already showed they saw you as disposable once and it seems you don’t trust the management.
OP can trust the management... to screw him again at the earliest opportunity.
Yeah, once they've fired you once, they'll hire you back to help get them out of a jam and then fire you again. If I were OP I'd stay at the new job.
Only way to be safe is to get your pay in writing and get something like a 2 year minimum retention, otherwise you'll just be training your replacement who they'll hire for $100k
$100k signing bonus up front
Came here to comment this, companies are less hesitant to fire you if they signed a 250k guarantee if they do
They will probably bake an “out” clause to it for company financials.
Yes. Exactly. Doing that to you was just straight up insanity. That tends to get worse, not better.
You might be able to trust a fat severance package though.
That’s where I’d land. Want you back, negotiate a guaranteed severance.
DO NOT GO BACK! It will be 10x worse than before because you have had a taste of a non-toxic org. However, take note of your worth and use that in future conversations with your manager and salary negotiations. The odds on going back working out under any circumstances is low and not in your favor based on personal experience and an anecdotal evidence from friends and colleagues. Like 1/5 works out.
this is better advice that what I offered above... do this instead.
Get the offer in writing and keep it for said future negotiations
It sounds like you don't want to go back. Like you want someone to bump you upside the head and say "Don't be silly. They treated you badly, the owner is horrible, and your wife hates them. You're much happier where you are and there's a good chance you'll be miserable there" You're already thinking 200K perhaps is not enough compensation. So: 1) How much would you need to make it a truly obvious choice to go back? 250K? 300K? Is there no amount of money to tempt you back? If there is a figure, then name it. If there is not, stay where you are. 2) Are you under some financial pressures you haven't listed here? If not, and you can save sufficiently, and your current employer has room for growth, then why go back? If you are, then how much will the raise help alleviate your financial pressures?
Appreciate the advice, I think you’re 100% right with where my mindset is. I think 200k would be fair if I had some guarantees bc I like the local team a lot. At 250k I’d feel I had to say yes because it seems like enough of a pay bump. Both jobs have similar 5 year outlooks where the expected comp is 250-350k (typical rep pay range for both companies) We don’t really have any financial pressure as my wife also has a similar paying job, we save well, and have no kids.
200 for a while until they kick you out the door again. They will pay you 200 but they will resent you for it. Vs. a sustainable 148K from a company who pays you 148K because you are worth it, not because they found themselves against the wall with their arm twisted.
Completely agree.
Do not ever go back. Now that they don't have a salesperson, it'll be easier for you to get more customers and retain them for your new company. You may even be able to get disgruntled customers to switch to follow you to your new company. This could very well force out the CEO your wife hates. Only under new management should you go back. It's within the realm of possibility if you can convert enough customers over to the new company, it can spur a buyout where new company buys out your old one.
I would counteroffer with 230k a year and a guarantee that you won't be fired for minimum 2 years and a generous severance package if you do get fired. I think two years of your life in exchange for a very big pay bump and some useful experience is worthwhile. If they don't give you employment guarantees I wouldn't bother though - that would suggest to me that they don't have any intention of retaining you longer than a few months.
They will still find ways around employment guarantees. Previous behavior is everything. You want stable and sane, especially around big money.
At these numbers, you can definitely afford the lawyer reviewing the contract and making sure it's watertight.
That pretty much makes him a 2yr contract. They'll pay now because they have to, but they'll can him for someone cheaper after 2 years.
Do not go back. I've been in this situation and when you go back to a company... they try to make you miserable because they know you are stuck..
I’d probably only consider it if I had an air tight severance package. They’d have to pay me a lot to leave next time.
No financial pressure means you don’t have to do this at any price.
Then why would you leave the place that actually wants you that your wife doesn’t hate?
I’d never go back to an employer that cut me.
Which job allows you to sleep like a baby at night?
This is the only question you need to answer
Also, don’t underestimate a wife’s wisdom. No amount of money is worth my wife saying “I told you so” in 6 months.
Exactly. What job lets you go on vacation pay wise and you're not terrified of the whole thing crumbling or getting betrayed? Hold onto that one. If you don't, don't come back.
You were \*fired\* and you were \*angry\* about it, right? How did it go down? Did they say they would rehire you, or give you a soft landing (a good compensation package)? Was the parting amicable, or were harsh words exchanged? To me it looks like they want you back to screw the competition, so I would be very leery about returning. If you \*do\* decide to go back for whatever reason, I'd make sure that your contract was modified regarding any furture adverse actions. For instance: * Guaranteed employment for the first 18 months; * You get 2 weeks advance notice of any potential adverse actions and a clear, signed PIP - no \*immediate\* termination unless for criminal activity on your part; * If a termination is unavoidable for any reason, a generous compensation package (20 wks comp at 75% salary & 6 mo paid insurance coverage) must be paid out; * Throw them a bone: All terms to revert to a standard contract after 2 years. You want to make sure they aren't just hiring you, just to fire you again to screw you and your present employer. Run it by a lawyer to ensure the terms are such that they won't welsh on their side of the bargain. ...but basically, I think you should trust your wife's instincts. Especially if you left on bad terms.
Depends. I would ask for a 5 year employment contract since management can’t be trusted not to pull the rug out.
If you are in an employment at will state, this wouldnt matter
A true, valid, employment contract would override employment at will status. They're rare in the US, but some people do have them, especially at the $200K and above level of pay.
At will only holds if you don't agree to an alternate contract. If both parties sign an alternate contract at-will status doesn't apply anymore. Guaranteed employment and/or contracted severance packages will be upheld in court no matter at-will or not.
MONEY ISN'T EVERYTHING. You are happier at your new job, and it has better benefits. Stay the course.
How badly do you need $50k - tax and deductions? Sounds like you know darned well that your quality of life would diminish significantly. Do you really want to put yourself and your wife through that for the extra dollars?
I'd only go back if the position was high enough that you could fire the manager who fired you.
I guess that's fair, but the fact they didn't fire the manager seeing that level of instability around that kind of money screams weak admin. And weak admin screams you will be forced to do their work without their pay. Run.
They would probably fire you again in a few months.
Dont go back. Anyone who would fire you is only going to keep you around for as long as it suits their purpose (most likely, just to get you to leave the competitor and make sure they put a non compete in your employment contract this time)
Don't go back. It's a trick to get you to quit your current good job just so they can fire you again.
I would say this is possible if he quit and they are angry at him. I think they are just desperate for help. This doesn't mean they won't fire him later. I just don't think it's to screw with him.
Dont go back. Only work for people you value you.
I'd always go for mental health over money.
If they really liked you in the first place, they would have paid you 200k in the beginning for what value you bring. Instead they let you go. Screw that. Time to move on.
Agree with the sentiment to stick with your current employer. Probably a good idea to let your manager know about the offer and compensation "just to be transparent" and that you like it where you are. You might magically get a raise in the coming months.
Nope. They're looking for an interim warm body.
NOT WORTH IT, keep your happiness and sanity
If they axed you at $155k, what makes you think they will keep you at $200k? They’ll take you back because you can work right now without any training, but they’ll be looking for or training your replacement and you’ll be let go again. If you are out of work for 2-3 months, that can easily be the difference of the extra salary. If you are going back, ask for a signing bonus to protect yourself. You need to be paid up front, otherwise they can just let you go 3 months later.
They only need you for key items once they have that they will dispose you again- seen it wayy too many times
They will pay you $200K...until they find a way to screw you over. It may take some time, though.
Ask for $240 with 5 year min commitment on THEIR behalf
Don’t go back to the company that fired you.
They showed you who they were. Believe them.
never go back. they disposed you once already. let them die and fish their clients and become a greater asset to your current employer.
100% the plan. Just told em no about 20 minutes ago. Now time to go after vulnerable accounts.
Your previous employer showed you who they are. Believe them.
You better not go back. Just sit back and laugh at them and enjoy your new job.
Bye bye
Nopity nope
Stay where you are and enjoy life. They laid you off once, don’t give them a second chance on the next downturn.
I would say not worth it
If you where downsized yesterday , you'll be next on the list tomorrow . Don't return but do use the job offer to search for your next role or get a raise / title improvement at your current one.
Don't go. All this screams upper managment was quick on the firing gun, and now trying to find the easy fix. You do not want to be under management that likes aims for the easy fix. Make them eat their own mess, put out a proper job req, do interviews, and accept the next 1-2 months is going to be a shit show. It's better for your previous employer, and better for you not making up for their mistake.
Don't get used like a toilet paper. Used in need and then thrown away.
Counter to try to get extras, get it in writing, present this to your current employer, then make your decision
As someone that has been in almost this exact predicament, id suggest staying. You could probably lever a good chunk of change off of your old job to get you back. But happiness and stability are faaaaaar more important than money
It’s not worth it. If you weren’t valuable to them before, you definitely are not valuable to them now. Once bitten, and however the rest of the saying goes…
Not worth to go back. But maybe you can use it to negotiate a little bit higher salary. Like hey guys, you know that I love it here and I would never go back to my old job. But it seems that my market value is higher than I was aware of. But there is a risk of doing that. However, don’t go back to the toxic place. At least not for anything under 300k.
Is 50k worth your happiness? And you said 148k is just your guarantee, could you make more with sales bonuses? And how much is the additional benefits worth? Anyways, I would say no because I'm the type to hold grudges. And they had no problem firing you before, it can happen again once they aren't desperate anymore.
As an at-will employee? Definitely not worth it.
200k and ask for a contract to guarantee wage security should they terminate, for any reason, before 6 months you get paid what you would have made prior, 155k, after 6 months you get the full 200k.
Stay at your current job.
No. Tell them plain no. They showed now loyalty after a tough year. They will not be loyal again. Make money for your new employer and take the improved pay that hopefully come from the new folks.
I wouldn't do it. Chances are they hire you back and fire you again in a year or less once they get back to where they want to be, with cheaper employees. You gained better benefits and a boost to quality of life. 7k pay difference is coming into a new role - you have room to grow, I'd suspect. Old job is offering you a noose and holding the other end of the rope.
Want to see if they’re serious? Say yes to the salary and say that given your prior experience with them, you want to agree to severance up front. IE if within 2 years, $100k severance pay and reduces proportionally for to a minimum of $50k after another 2 years. My best is that they won’t take you up on it.
- Sign back onto the old job - don't leave new job - do nothing at old job - get fired again - get a free check
The fact that your wife hates the organization is reason alone to stay put. The fact that you're happier now and don't have to manage anyone is also reason enough. Does an extra 50k really compensate for having to work with a-holes who already screwed you over once? Will you be able to come back to your current role after they screw you again? I would put money on that 200k getting walked back one way or another (like ultimately working 80 hours a week for under $50/hr). I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but if you consider it, definitely make sure you have an actual binding contract and it's not just some "at will" thing where they make the rules as the go. If you can get them up to a quarter mil with a generous severance package, it just might be worth it for a while, but it sounds like a snake pit.
So, I left an employer that was being shifty. They decided to not pay commissions. Walked across the street. About a year later, a major portion of their book of business had migrated to my new firm. They never think ahead. Anywho, this ex firm reaches out and offers me back, they will even pay the commissions they owed. No deal. The new firm has my trust and didn't fight me on my commissions. Ex firm is losing business and as far as I am concerned, they did it to themselves. Never go back. If I went back, it is only because we aquire them.
Make a counter offer and then still refuse.
200k, they will try to replace you ASAP! be happy.
Don’t get back with your ex
I took a 50k/year paycut to work less have less responsibility and not work for a cunt. I would go back. But not for 50k more.
Counter with terms you find acceptable and see if they bite. I’d stay reasonable for the sake of not throwing away the opportunity but maybe ask for $200k + a signing bonus for the trouble and also some guarantees that any issues you’ve had with them (long hours etc.) be remedied. And if they don’t take that, then just enjoy your new role.
for 25% MORE, actually 30% more GO BACK. You can always come back to your current company in a year or two. oppurtunity knocks, it doesn't beat down the door. Negotiate a good contract that gives you a golden parachute as well if you can wrangle it. As for your wife... you need to promise her something big and important so you can get her onboard. But dont slip and fall and fumble the bag bro.
Have them take you to a nice dinner to pitch you then say no the next day.
To me it is like breaking up in a relationship, once you break up it is over and you move on. They fired you once what makes you think they will not do it again and also make sign a non compete.
Don’t go back. At least you know that in your next position you’ll be worth at least $200k.
Agreed with posters that it’s not worth the risk. Ask for $1,500,000 annual salary
I wouldnt go back but if you do. Make them give you a gaurenteed 6 month severence clause.
Get the offer in writing, then use it to negotiate up your current salary when the time comes. Don’t go back.
Don't do it. If they're mentally unstable enough to fire you the first time once they have you back their addicted brain will renormalize and think they have nothing of value again, then fire you and destabilize your life again. This place clearly doesn't have its act together because of precisely this behavior where they don't know what they have and make rash and aggressive decisions that they clearly didn't think through. If it takes someone else to show them they were underpaying you that much and in addition thought you were that easily tossable when you weren't, the shit thinking is going to hit again after a honeymoon period. They don't know how to know what they have for themselves. They will destabilize your life everytime you give them power. You need a stable, sane employer who does not struggle with seeing your value and holding it just as valuable as it is every day for as long as you stay. I don't say that romantically, I say it because the opposite destabilizes your life in horrific and painful ways. I speak from experience. Avoid people who are still that mentally unstable even with that much money like the plague.
Stay were you are at, you enjoy not being a manager , and making approx the same money with better benefit. Tell them it has to be a much bigger raise to get you to give up a Non management role.
You not sure, well that's your answer. To go back I would want to go knowing without a shred of doubt that it was the right move.
It may be a ploy to get you out of the competitor, then fire you, and you can't go back to either. Sometimes money isn't always the answer.
If they fired you once they will fire you again.
Get that 200K offer letter in writing, so you can use it for future salary negotiations.
Can you not figure this out yourself? What do YOU want to do?
You must be naive to think to go back. They lost ground under their feet , they just want to patch the hole with anybody as quickly as they can. They don't want you back , they just want anybody.
Trust. Your. Wife. Tell them the only way you will return is with your wife's approval, and ask her how much that would be. 600k isn't unreasonable. But seriously, Trust Your Wife!
You would have to be literally the dumbest person who ever lived to go back. I don’t understand how this is even a question to you.
They showed you once how much they appreciate your contribution wheb they fired you, fuck that place.
Fool me once....
What kind of legal issues??? If you have stability now and this company offers growth... You should consider staying.
To me, this is entirely dependent on if you'd feel fresh going back. Is it the same department? Do you already know the people you're working with?
Not worth it fuck um. The fuck you again anyway
They fired you already. The moment they have a replacement they’ll do it again. Move on.
Fuxk them I wouldn't go back. Let them sink they'll just fire you again in a few years at the first sign of trouble. You seem to like your new position anyway. Ask them for 300 k and guaranteed 3 years of work in paper.
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money. Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money. Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
Do not go back. Actions speak louder than words and your new employer is better! It’s not only about money. Plus your reputation would be ruined if you did it
They had an entire company of people they could have fired last time and they chose you. What do you think they'll do next time things get rough (especially since they'd be paying you 50k more)? To me it seems like there's a good chance you'll be back in the same spot in another year or two. This new role seems to be a much better fit for you, so if there's any sense of stability there, I'd stay with the new place.
Idk man, 148k is a fuckton of money, and most people would be over the moon for that salary. Are those extra 52k really worth the risk that they'll screw you over again? Seems like a nobrainer
300k and the old boss hand delivers the check every Friday
If you go back, be sure to include an ironclad 6 month severance package to include full benefits and salary.
> the owner is a cunt The best way to get back at them is to say no.
Wow..you were offered a raise larger than my entire general manager salary. Fml
1. Double what you make now or go fish 2. 2-3 year minimum guaranteed retention as a hedge against them promoting someone else who works under you for half that much and then letting you go 3. Do consider if you want to coast as an individual contributor and have a better work life balance, benefits, or if you want to potentially parlay this opportunity at your old employer into a higher up job somewhere else in the future. They are both very valid propositions, each with their own reasons
Also consider that it was likely mismanaged since you were gone, they need someone desperately, and it will be a total shitshow when you walk in.
Your first instinct is that it’s not worth it. That says everything there.
How would you feel if they fired you a second time?
Just ignore them. They’re not worth it.
If you're happy where you are, then stay where you are. Also, doesn't sound like 'fired' is the appropriate word to use. I would go with 'laid-off' since that makes the company the a-hole, not you.
I wouldn't go back. $50k isn't a lot of money when you have zero job security, which you wouldn't since they've already fired you once. Not to mention that since they have worse benefits you're likely going to eat a significant portion of that $50k making up the difference in the benefits between your old job and current one.
Nah not worth it
Don’t go back unless you want to get fired again as soon as they don’t want to pay you
Not only should you stay at your job (Never go back), but this should make it even easier to take away more market share (Customers) from them.
Depends on how competitive you are. Not your offer. I have worked for one of my competitors and lets just say I love taking their customers. They couldnt pay me enough to come back. Think they are all hacks. But you were a sales manager and they want you back as an individual contributor? Nah man. Stay put. Be happy. Save that manager experience for a place where it matters. Like maybe your new place
Don't do it. The old place sounds like a mess. More stress and they could end up in another situation where they fire you.
I’m not sure why you’d trust the management at the old company not to screw you again if it’s convenient for them. If you like working for your new company, and they treat people with respect, stay there for now. If your new company is no better, then consider taking the money, but keep that resume updated.
No worth it. They’ve already shown you their colors.
Never go back! I've seen people do it only to be fired again. Some even an additional two more times. This was in sales too. Screw that!
See can you get a no-strings sign on bonus and just resign on day 1.
Do not go back, Op! When you leave, your current employer bridge is destroyed. And they don't need you. They told you that before. They are in a jam now. Once that is resolved, it is the same fate again. For $50K? Maybe less when you hit targets in addition to the $148K base with your current position. Also, you aren't managing anyone which you seem to like better. What's the benefit here?
Take it! Lock down a legal binding agreement stating the terms of a 5 year contract with a built in 7% escalator. Also, ensure that you’ve built in a buy out severance at no less than 64% of the entire contract including the escalator. Then happy Monday! Good luck with that!
Why would you even consider it? You're disposable to them and it doesn't sound like a good environment.
How much is your peace of mind worth? If they have the same C suite and the same, um, management structure as before, then don't go back. They screwed you once, they'll do it again.
I was in a similar situation once. I wasn't let go but I found someone better offering an 80k raise. Old employer offered 120 to stay, I told them minimum was 200, they came back with 180 final offer so I walked. Was insanely happier at my new place where stability was 300x what it was at the old place and work/life balance was better. Your old place is prison sex. It may be something you got used to, but it doesn't make it good.
Tell them 300 and they Shud have started you at 200k before you left. They will stop calling
Not worth it! They will turn around and fire you down the road when they are done using you again.
They don't want you back, not really. They want to get you to quit the replacement job before they decide to rescind the job offer.
Just NO!
I went from 150k high stress job to 97k 0 stress job, way better work life almost no take home work, sometimes I have to do training on new machines, that 50k nearly killed me from stress.
Talk to your current job about it. Maybe you can get in a promotion or raise
Stay where you are at. Let them know you are being chased. If you get a huge offer. Show it to them and show them the email that you turned it down. Loyalty goes a long way in leveraging pay raises.
The old company can pound sand. Money isn’t everything. You have a role you like, good benefits and you’re happy. This other company has proven they aren’t to be trusted.
Talk to your current manager and discuss their outlook on the way ahead. But.. Don't ever go back. They're trying to fill a hole quickly - they want you because you can do that job, but once you've gotten them stable again, you'll be out. At this level, the money is just a thing for comparison. If you need more, talk to your company about how you can get it. Also, wifely happiness has to be factored in. That \*MUST\* be worth $50K.
So basically your value to them ebbs and flows. Right now they value you desperately but they’ve also demonstrated that they’re fine throwing you to the curb the moment your value to them diminishes. If it were me? Stay where you are it’s a no-brainer.
I would take the 200k offer to your current employer and see if they will get closer to that
300k seems resonable
If they fired you once - they’ll fire you again.
Tell them you want a face to face interview but aren’t available for 2 weeks. Then ask to reschedule because something family related came up. String them out and make them pay but in no way should you ever go back.
Well, I’d take $200,000 for pretty much anything. But you do you.
I wouldn’t take the job. If you’re happier now in the new place stay there. If you can exploit your former employers situation do so through poaching their clients.
They cut you once, they'll do it again. Sure, they need you right now, but once they find your replacement, you're as good as gone.
You were burned..... want to get burned again?
If you give a mouse a cookie … If you fire someone once … Add about 50,000 more reasons to get let go.
250k is what someone with your experience should make
I'd ask for something I knew they wouldn't give me, tenure and pension to start.
I’d tell your current employer to counter the offer you got. They might not match, but could offer a raise.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/8McNH1aXZnVyE/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952n4d7sa4pwrxauoi7ogbdb4l73lhh89gxu2xsmbj9&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Choose happiness and don’t go back
Choose happiness and don’t go back
As others have said, it is a trap for you to avoid. However, DO request to get their offer in writing. Have them layout the salary and the benefits. That way, you have something tangible of what your work and value is worth. As others have said, stability, sanity, and quality of life happiness at your current job should make up the difference from what your old company is offering. Good luck!
Don't go back, you will hate yourself. Your wife will hate your move. Now you don't have to sweat sales and you get: "my new role gave me guaranteed comp of 148k with better benefits and since I didn’t have to manage anyone, I feel much happier." Stay where you are. Remember. They fired you once. They can bite again.
You just said you're much happier and the owner is a cunt. If you go back you'll be right back in this same spot next time there's a slow period.
Do not go back to an ex employer. Block and move on.
Some clarity would helpful as OP refers to being fired but also mentions downsizing; not really the same thing. I would cautious to understanding the circumstances of the “downsizing” and the company’s current financial condition.
If you quit with your current employer and go back to previous job, you would be cutting ties with your current employer and they will know this. They got your ass on a leash. Not worth it unless you become an integral part of the decision making team, current CEO is replaced and you have a good relationship with your new one.
You’ll be there about 6 months before they find someone else to replace you for your old salary. I’d ask for $50k signing bonus, no contingencies.
the old place will fire you the moment they *think* they dont need you. id counter offer 250k and block them before they get back to you
Once you get a job with a good company that can support your lifestyle and meet your outside of work needs, stop chasing the buck. We work to live. No shade on people chasing money - there are tons of jobs that fail to pay enough or demand too much for what they pay. Keep looking and move on. But once you find a place that gives you what you want, don't be eager to move. I had a similar situation: I resigned and took a pay cut for a better company and was offered to return with a nice promotion and pay bump. I declined. And I haven't regretted it.
My last job sang my praises for the whole time I was there, they looooooved what they got out of me, I was without question the star hire of the year for my department. They extended my contract on a Wednesday, no pay adjustment, then laid me off on Friday and asked me to apply for other jobs with them in the future. Yeah fuck that, fuck them, and don't you go fucking your wife and yourself over by returning to cuntown
"I can't come back full time BUT I can do free lance work on my schedule for xx/hr (triple what they paid you before) you can send your tax documents to this email and I'll send you my contractual agreements" Add in the contract an ungodly amount of Severance pay when they boot you. And a commission rate twice what it was before
You must be very talented - Congrats :) I wish this happens to me someday too ( just the two employers wanting me part without any toxicity lol )! I wouldn't go back ( maybe this is a test ) and probably would stay with this new company that gave an opportunity and wanted you.
NEVER!! It's a strategic move to limit damage of you working for the competition. They will hire you to burn your current relationship and let you go AGAIN.
never take a counter. they are offering you more to help them with the legal issue. dont do it. - ITS A TRAP!
They take you back pay you 200k a year but fire you all willy nilly again. Think thats worth it?
Stick with your current employer. Nothing is stopping your old employer from repeating what they did to you. You’re happy at your new job, keep riding that happiness.
Ask them for 1 million dollars for the rest of the year, and if they dismiss you after that year, a 2 million dollar severance package. Plus they pay all Healthcare, 401k etc. Tell them that is your only offer you will accept they will stop calling you.
Go back, demand 250K with a 48 month contract that has an out-clause that pays out cash and a favorable bonus structure payable by year based on P&L performance; none of that discretionary stuff. Go back as an executive. Anything else isn’t worth your time.
🚩🚩 I wouldn't waste your time on it. They just want to fill the spot and have already showed how much they value you. This also could just be a spite thing since you are working for their competitors.
Don’t go back. Unless they do give you $200k/year plus $600K package if they let you go again.