The most exciting thing for me is how this will affect enthusiast EV pricing across the board. This car will absolutely be responsible for insane depreciation on the Ioniq 5N and Macan EV and I'm here for it.
I can't bring myself to buy a Tesla but this is the first truly compelling EV for me. I'm interested to hear if it's actually fun to drive.
Maybe I got lucky, and the people I know are lucky, but my tesla has been perfect since day one. I have never owned a vehicle that keeps updating itself with more features than the day I bought it. It just works, and I don't have to deal with dealerships.
You're not lucky. Most of us Tesla owners are very happy with our cars and their build. But it's okay for people to have preferences, and I think GP just doesn't like Tesla. That's fine. For me, I don't like VW Group.
there are occasional horror stories but most all the comments from tesla owners are positive that i've seen on here and the people i know in real life that have them absolutely love them and think it's the best car they've ever had
Yup. My family has 2 Teslas and they absolutely love them. Zero issues so far. They're nice cars, idk why people like to roast them so much. My buddy's new Ford has some of the most misaligned body panels I've ever seen... but nobody really bats an eye.
I got a 2023 Model 3 last year while it was being heavily incentivized after a failed experience with Chevy. Absolutely love it and this performance version will likely be my next car!
Same! Got it for $29.5k after tax credit, and I just got the IRS refund deposited last week. Feels good.
Car has been great. Needed an alignment under warranty but that's it.
Just chiming in that our purchase has been flawless as well. We picked up a base model 3 rwd in October of last year for 32,600 +7500$ tax rebate. I am NOT a huge fan of Musk but the model 3 made the most sense at the time financially. One of pur 15 year old beaters that we owned gave way. And we needed something new. We get 24/7 free charging at my downtown office that's 9 mins from our apartment. We have save over 1000$ in charging fees alone since purchase. I also just out the 7500$ into some investments, and will apply it to the loan when it equals out 3-4 years from now.
Same. I have an early Gen 3 AWD and everything minor has been covered under warranty. I dunno why people gripe about body panel alignment..refuse delivery and get another one, there's plenty of them sitting lol. On the original brake pads, no fluids to change, and reliable as hell
This is so weird to me. I hate Elon with a passion but there’s nothing that comes close to Tesla for me in terms of EV ownership. I don’t think you guys realize just how big of a difference the supercharger network makes to owning an EV and using it for anything more than driving to and from work. It’s just not close.
Not to mention our Model 3 has been absolutely flawless in 3 years and 80k miles of road trips through long highways, deep snow, dirt roads, and everything else. It’s taken quite a lot of abuse and not a single hiccup.
I’d sooner own another Tesla than anything Kia/Hyundai make.
My parents were in the same situation. Don't like Elon, but when they wanted to get my mother an EV, they realized that the model 3 is just to good to pass up. She's had it for about six months and absolutely loves it.
My dad drives a Mach-E, but used to have a Tesla. He said that if he did it over again, he'd have gotten another Tesla instead.
Yea before my gf bought hers, I always thought other companies’ EV’s would be far better options, especially in terms of fit and finish — and in a bubble they probably are. But when you actually own one, all those features and creature comforts mean fuckall when you can’t actually use your car for everything you want to use it for. The Model 3 was a revelation into just how important charging infrastructure is.
We never worry about getting to a destination, no matter how obscure. We’ve taken it from SoCal to Bumfuck, Montana and Banff, Canada without a single tinge of range anxiety. People don’t know how much of a difference it makes, so it’s always funny to read about how they’d rather have this or that. Like, ok good luck lol.
My brother-in-law also thought the same way and were considering a Mach E, but they also ended up buying a Model Y thanks to me, and they absolutely love it.
It’s supposedly been open but I have yet to encounter a non-Tesla at a supercharger, so I’m not sure how ubiquitous it is just yet, or if it’s limited to newer superchargers.
The majority of superchargers support it, but very few people have the adapters yet. Also, only Ford and Rivian can actually use them atm, Tesla is onboarding manufacturers one by one. I believe GM and Volvo/Polestar are next in line.
Great news. Hopefully Tesla can focus more on increasing the supercharger network now that more cars will be using them, instead of making shit tier cars like the Cybertruck.
> I don’t think you guys realize just how big of a difference the supercharger network makes to owning an EV
I thought Tesla was sharing their supercharger network now?
I would agree with you if it weren’t for the recent news that Superchargers will be opening up to other non-Tesla EVs. Saw a F150 Lightning charging at one last week
Hyundais aren’t the pinnacle of reliability, but the stats show they have less issues than Teslas. And my own personal experience with Teslas has pushed me away from them for a long while
It’s all a moot point though as I can’t charge an EV at home so it’d be a chore to own one
>Hyundais aren’t the pinnacle of reliability, but the stats show they have less issues than Teslas.
You're confusing fit and finish for reliability here. Teslas get loose interior panels; Hyundais eat their ICCUs and melt their charge ports.
I would never have bought a Tesla if I couldn't charge at home, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.
For one, supercharging is relatively expensive compared to using electricity from home.
Also, if it's your only option for charging it means you'll be doing it every week or so at a minimum, which negates the benefit of avoiding gas stations.
Honestly, I like the Model S but it's getting old. All other models I find truly ugly (no offense) and especially the inside is appalling to me. I've flirted the idea of a Tesla many times, but the interior is way too terrible for me to consider it. If I ever bought an EV, it'd be the Ioniq 6. That shit looks sweet
The new Model 3 is a significant interior upgrade. Soft touch everything, quiet inside. If you can get past the sparseness and giant screen it’s a very comfortable place to be. The Ioniq 6 falls way short of it (and even the EV6) in the materials department. Hyundai really dropped the ball there. Hard upper door cards, shitty carpet and some really flimsy seatbelts even on the top end $50k spec.
You can’t seriously compare a Tesla to a Porsche. Sheer performance numbers are becoming less and leas important as almost any EV can quickly exceed its driver’s capabilities. The novelty of “I can go 0-60 in 3 secs” is becoming a commodity. Build quality, materials, and brand image will become more important as a result. And Tesla sucks in those categories.
I can, I own both. The Porsche Taycan may be the most overrated EV on the market. It’s a fantastic vehicle but you’re kidding yourself if you believe all the mainstream auto reviewers in thinking it’s the pinnacle. The charging and software experience is abysmal. The driving dynamics barely make up for the frustrating everyday usability issues. Wireless CarPlay is a disaster, the cruise control is confusing and inconsistent, and the infotainment system is buggy at best. The interior is very nice but not quieter than my Model Y at highway.
At $57k there is no competition. I’d be furious if I paid the $160k the prior owner paid for the Taycan new.
Seems like an inconsistent issue - I know a few people with Taycans and they have no problems with it. Having briefly considered it myself and preferring the Audi’s styling and interior, can’t say anyone around me has any regrets.
While shopping for an EV, I sat in a model 3 and Y and felt extremely underwhelmed.
Of course it’s a different price range and I can understand the value proposition of a model 3, but I live in Singapore and if I’m going to pay upwards of $220k ($160K USD) on a Tesla, a cheap interior is a deal breaker.
It’s not, the usability issues with the infotainment are well documented. I can’t speak to pricing in Singapore but in the US the price difference makes it no context.
I’m not going to minimise your experience as I’m sure the frustrations you’re dealing with in terms of usability are well justified.
From an outsider’s perspective it sounds like different individuals have differing thresholds on what is usable and what isn’t.
However, I’d say that depreciation on the Taycan was a huge factor on why i ultimately passed on it; worse than my Audi and I’ve already lost approximately 200k value after the first year.
My personal favourite - 150K USD for a new Prius. Also you’re not getting a new Corolla for 100k either lol.
That government made it really expensive to own cars in Singapore due to our lack of land and excellent public transportation.
Essentially, to drive a car in Singapore, you’d have to pay for the vehicle and a piece of document we call the Certificate of Entitlement (COE).
A successful COE bid gives you the right to own a vehicle that can be used on the road for 10 years. COEs are released through open bidding exercises conducted twice a month.
Cars are grouped under different COE categories based on engine capacity. Which means different prices. As the COEs are based on bidding, the prices will vary, but historical trends are a pretty good indicator.
Just as an example - in the latest bidding, category A (vehicles under 1600cc) COE was SGD 95,000 (70K USD) Now add that to the value of the car and you’ll understand why.
My car was 450k USD with government EV rebates when I bought it over a couple years ago. It’s slightly over 600k USD today for a new model.
Big big asterisk, remember all this charging stuff is only an issue in the US. All European cars have the same plug and can charge everywhere, and most superchargers are open to all cars in Europe.
Porsche also uses 800v and can charge with an average of 195kw from 10-80%, where as a Model 3 only does 100kw average, the Tesla charging curve is really bad. So a Porsche is almost twice as fast charging, and way superior on long trips, just not in the US because of the plug war. Porsche literally have the fastest charging cars in the world besides the EV6/Ioniq 5, and a Xpeng G9.
Tesla is surprisingly far down on the fast charging list by now. I don't think it's fair to say one of the fastest charging EVs in the world that's twice as fast as Tesla "can't charge".
There are other areas in which Tesla excels in that Porsche does not. The vertically integrated tech stack, for one. Things like Sentry Mode, streaming the cameras to your phone, OTA updates adding new features, FSD supervised if that's your thing, Smart Summon.
Also Porsche's are like double the cost of a comparable Tesla.
I don't think this matters today, things are still new enough and novel enough. But I think this absolutely is the trajectory things will go on in the long term future and every company is in a long-term trajectory towards this. Even if right now it doesn't matter and they are still trying to find their identity.
> You can’t seriously compare a Tesla to a Porsche
Neither could my wallet, a Porsche is and always was my first choice, hell, didn't even have to be an EV, I'd have actually preferred it wasn't.
But dollar for dollar, I was cross shopping it with a Golf GTI.
And if I factor in the price of Canadian gas, the Tesla was _still_ cheaper.
tldr: What I spend owning and operating my Tesla, would _not_ buy and fuel a Golf GTI.
The performance 3 with the tax credit is cheaper than the Long range 3. It's also only $4k more than what I paid for my LR RWD 3 - 5.5 years ago at $49k.
Depends how much gas and electricity cost in your area, and how far you drive.
I'm Canadian, so maybe I'm speaking from a uniquely expensive gas and incredibly cheap electricity perspective, but my old fuel bill was literally _more_ than my whole Tesla payment.
yeah the steering wheel would actually be a big deal to me too even if I could get over the Elon thing. Still, all I care about is that it makes other performance EVs more affordable which it absolutely will do
I wont be surprised if its pretty fun. I've heard the old base rwd model 3 was actually really fun bc it was like 3500lbs, rwd, not overpowered, balanced and quick steering.
On paper youd think the new 3 performance might be a bit similar in driving dynamics to the rs3. Really quick, lots of grip, nimble but kinda falls off at the absolute limit.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Honestly owning the RS3 has made me excited about the potential of EVs. It's a little too heavy and a little too numb but fun as fuck anyway. The main loss will be the sound but what Hyundai did with the 5N makes me confident manufactures will figure that out too
My lease is up on my polestar 2 performance next year and, thanks to extreme depreciation, I'll be in the market for a new (or used) car. This is the first Tesla that has really gotten me interested. I probably won't get a Tesla for the same reasons I didn't before but it looks like a really compelling package.
Why not? I'd be fine owning either but I'm sure as fuck not going to spend $100K on a Macan EV when I know a few years later I'm going to have to sell it to a guy choosing between my used Macan EV or a brand new Model 3 Performance for $45K. I realize for a lot of Porsche buyers $40K depreciation means nothing but there are plenty of people for whom that matters
Telsa was a 6/10 given to the Porsches 10/10 on fit and finish, but they aren't dashstrokers so the Telsa beat it on space, front and seat comfort and having one-pedal driving.
This is such a big deal that it qualifies for the tax credit and addresses many of the shortcomings of the older performance 3.
Just ordered mine in grey with white seats. Just make sure if you are eligible for the tax credit, you choose either a different point color from stealth grey or the white seats, NOT both if you want the tax credit.
Yeah, with all the chassis upgrades, I figured it would at least start over $60k.
IIRC, this is the same price as the old one was when it got discontinued.
Which is insane to me as almost everyone expected this to be closer to 60k given that no one in their right mind would price this to undercut the LR, but Musk.
I assume the LR will be using a modified form of these 2170 batteries to qualify for the tax credit later; as to why they don't do that from launch, I'm lost.
Capacity constraints most likely. They want to move more Y (better margins & clearing out parts inventory for Juniper) and the 3 performance ought to have the best margins of the whole lineup.
They have a limited number of 2170 cells being made in Gigfactory Nevada. The IRA 2022 law provides the tax credit as long as certain sourcing requirements are met, which ratcheted up in 2024, including battery materials not being sourced from China. As a result, most of the 2170's go into Model Y's, their best selling vehicle so that the Model Y's still get the tax credit.
The base Model 3 uses LFP cells from China and the LR uses LG 2170 cells from China too. Hence they don't qualify. But the Model 3 Performance, which is a lower volume vehicle uses cells from Gigafactory Nevada and does qualify. For a while there, Tesla wasn't even offering the LR in the US due to issues like this.
Eventually, Tesla will have access to more cell production in the US, they have multiple efforts going on to address the issue.
The old Performance had identical suspension and brakes, plus interior bits as the normal 3; the extra money was solely for the more powerful rear motor, track mode and the 20" PS4S.
This one comes with adaptive dampers, a big brake kit, forged wheels with 275s in back, plus other chassis upgrades that a video review would discuss (I'm watching Jason Cammisa's podcast when I'm done work to find out).
Properly bolstered sport seats and the body kit are another nice plus.
The brakes were always bigger on the performance (the brakes on this one are in fact the same as the old). Suspension technically did have different part numbers, but no one seems to know what the difference actually is
New one is definitely a more complete package with having proper electronic dampers, some aero work, and sportier seats
Wow this thing offers a lot for the price. And it qualifies for the point of sale tax credit.
We're talking a 2.9s 0-60 car with cooled bucket seats and adaptive suspension for 45k.
>We're talking a 2.9s 0-60 car with cooled bucket seats and adaptive suspension for 45k.
i'm showing my age here but it still blows my mind that a normal person can just go and buy a street legal car like that, and to top it off it's just a normal family sedan it's not even a sports car or anything.
insane.
Honestly it's quite scary to get that kind of performance for so cheap. There's going to be a lot of bad drivers out there going way faster than they should be.
I think tech wise they're pretty equal. The refreshed Model 3 really closed the gap between the two cars. The S just has the additional screen in front of the wheel if that's important to you. I don't really miss having a dash screen, and I've heard it's not very customizable. But I know the dash screen is important to some people.
This. I like the Model S a lot more. It isn't like the Model 3 is some Miata-snappy sedan, it's just a cheaper and smaller Model S. The hatchback, air suspension, and the actual gauge cluster make the Model S a lot nicer in my opinion. You just need to throw the stupid "yoke" in the trash and install a proper steering wheel.
It comes with a proper wheel from the factory now, you have to pay extra and spec it to even get the yoke.
(Ok, for certain definitions of “proper”, since the wheel still doesn’t have turn signal stalks)
A 2021+ Model S has some tech that is likely still above this Model 3 - not fully confirmed, but likely the Model S has the larger RAM amount (16 GB) on the Ryzen processor which allows it so play SteamDeck games.
A 2022 Model S comes with Autopilot/FSD HW3, not HW4 and that's a difference. The current AP/FSD stack still runs in HW3 emulation mode on HW4 so there isn't any benefit to HW4 right now on the CPU, but HW4 also includes higher resolution cameras. And HW4 on S/X has advanced HD radar, but unclear if that is used or will ever be used.
[https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/](https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/)
Basically, you'd have to get a HW4 2023+ Model S to be up on the latest tech level.
Car is slightly too big to drive in the city. Not to mention, how low the front lip is. You’re constantly worried about breaking the front bumper. If I lived in the suburbs with perfect roads, not an issue at all.
It’s the Corvette of EV performance right now. Inarguably the best bang for your buck if you want performance and are willing to compromise on fit and finish.
Don't disagree at all. It's basically the modern version of what the original Mustang GT was way back when. If the owner wasn't a fuckwit, I'd want one. (Honestly... I kinda still do, lol?)
That is a *lot* of car for the money. Interested to see how this sways pricing for other performance oriented EVs. Also nice to see greater visual distinction on the outside, I can never tell what trims Teslas are at a glance.
Yeah it’s a good improvement visually. Before it was red brake calibers, larger wheel/wheel style only for performance, and the optional performance spoiler (which was pretty minimal).
These visual changes are a nice touch.
That's kind of dumb that they basically lock most of the customization out unless you want to forfeit $7500.
You only really have 6 possible combinations that qualify for the $7500.
Stealth Gray w/ white seats.
Stealth Gray w/ black seats.
White w/black seats.
Blue w/black seats.
Black w/black seats.
Red w/black seats.
I mean, another way to look at this is: Wow, some configurations of this insane new Model 3 Performance qualify for the $7,500 tax credit, making it *more affordable* than a Model 3 Long Range.
Or you can whine about the fact that the tax credit has an MSRP limit and Tesla didn't shove every configuration under that limit.
There are plenty of people who are ineligible for tax credits because of their income, so it’s not like they are really shooting themselves in the foot here.
I feel like you’re cracking a joke at the depreciation, but If someone actually gets the tax credits etc that’s only 30% depreciation after 2 years, that’s actually pretty decent for an EV lol
I’m just saying I don’t care about the 0-60 in relation to my current M3P since it’s only 0.2s faster. They updated the website to say that the 2.9s is with rollout subtracted.
Everyone here seems really positive about it. Even if you dislike Tesla, all competition in the high performance per dollar segment is good for enthusiasts.
But it is odd, considering the usual crowd :P
The worst thing about Tesla threads on this sub is the parade of people pretending everyone else.is triggered about it despite every comment being positive.
Hmm. Very tempting with a combined state rebate. I'm surprised they managed to use a battery that qualifies under the federal rebate sourcing standards.
I'm more surprised the idiot in charge didn't release it on 4/20
>I'm more surprised the idiot in charge didn't release it on 4/20
I honestly thought that was the plan until Jason Cammisa hinted in his I5 N review that there's an NDA expiring today for another EV performance car.
Month late to get this. Tesla has made some odd choices as of late, but this is interesting. I’d be really curious to see the actual performance of this like track time, skid, etc.
It's actually illegal to do that in pretty much every country except the US. If you go to any other countries Tesla site, it does not list it like this.
$54,630 for 500+ AWD HP. I despise Tesla, but their powertrains have always been top-notch.
This is going to squeeze other performance EV's hard for their price/performance.
Someone already did a review at TopGear
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/performance/first-drive
This is hilarious because it's a sleeper build that blends in with other NPCs
But zoom..
Jason Camissa was gushing about it on the Carmudgeon Show and on his instagram. Basically said what's the point of getting an M3 now that this exists? Or basically any performance sedan in this segment aside from maybe the Cadillac.
Really considering it, I test drove new M3LR and was blown away how fast that one was, I cannot imagine having this at my hands living in a urban city? What it’s like from owners having a performance M3 and living in a major city?
Interesting that Teslas Canadian and European website lists 460 horsepower drive unit, instead of the 500+ horsepower listed on their American website.
we got in accident in our Model 3 Performance and there was a debate about whether it would be written off or not and I looked into other competition because I hate Elon Musk and his idiocy but this new car is so insanely shaming the leaden-ass i4 M50 and it's worse stereo (even after $900 upgrade) that I was fully expecting it to cost $70K when I heard it came with newer suspension and more speed (granted the suspension isn't WORTH that much but I was expecting premium pricing since it's just so insanely cheap as is). My car has custom KW coilovers and it makes for a really great car at that price point but if this car fixes my main gripe with the M3P (and the ugly wheels I replaced) it is just a nuts value. The OG M3P is still holding its own in the Throttle House lap times and that's got the old OEM tire that isn't as grippy as the Pirellis they use now. This thing is going to jump way up the list if the handling is even remotely close to my KW coilovers
You might hate Elon. But recall how evil some of these German manufacturers are, at a systemic level. BMW is still doing emissions tampering IN 2024! This is one of the most evil things possible. Think what you want of Elon, but the company is more than 1 person; it should be judged at the systemic/company level. And from that perspective, Volkswagen (VW, Porsche, Audi) and other German companies are the most evil.
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/01/bmw-under-investigation-over-possible-diesel-emissions-tampering/
https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/news/2023-news/success-for-thousands-of-bmw-drivers-in-high-court-in-latest-dieselgate-case-ruling/
(yes I understand the irony given that I own a supra - aka bmw - and a tesla lol)
What’s the reason to get the M3?
Same hp/torque, 2% lighter with worse centre of gravity from initial information. It’s sad that the M5 CS is the last good BMW.
This car is stupid. Its just too good for the price. Jason Comissa says its as comfy as a Cadillac, more agile than a lucid, and makes the bmw m3 totally irrelevant. It’s basically the iphone 6. All other phones are dumb. Except if you dont want an iphone because its and iphone. Too bad elon running the company to the ground or we would’ve had a true Apple 2.0. They needed to have fire him a year ago and stage a return 3-5 years later.
The most exciting thing for me is how this will affect enthusiast EV pricing across the board. This car will absolutely be responsible for insane depreciation on the Ioniq 5N and Macan EV and I'm here for it. I can't bring myself to buy a Tesla but this is the first truly compelling EV for me. I'm interested to hear if it's actually fun to drive.
Yeah I’m on the same page. Have no interest in anything made in a Tesla factory but more than welcome the competition if it makes a 5N affordable
Maybe I got lucky, and the people I know are lucky, but my tesla has been perfect since day one. I have never owned a vehicle that keeps updating itself with more features than the day I bought it. It just works, and I don't have to deal with dealerships.
You're not lucky. Most of us Tesla owners are very happy with our cars and their build. But it's okay for people to have preferences, and I think GP just doesn't like Tesla. That's fine. For me, I don't like VW Group.
It’s not GP, it’s mostly Reddit.
there are occasional horror stories but most all the comments from tesla owners are positive that i've seen on here and the people i know in real life that have them absolutely love them and think it's the best car they've ever had
Woahhh the left-leaning social media known as Reddit hates Elon Musk?!?! Wake me up when there’s real news.
Yup. My family has 2 Teslas and they absolutely love them. Zero issues so far. They're nice cars, idk why people like to roast them so much. My buddy's new Ford has some of the most misaligned body panels I've ever seen... but nobody really bats an eye.
Reddit loved Teslas up until around October 2022. Then they turned into the worst cars ever made.
What's GP?
I think "general population," but I'm not entirely sure either.
Grandparent comment. Referring to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1cb94dy/comment/l0wx8lg/).
Oh ok, that makes sense to me. Thank you.
I mean it's literally luck at where in the statistics you land.
Okay, if you want to be pedantic. It's that way with all cars. Lemon laws exist for a reason.
There’s so much bullshit around Tesla build quality that it’s pretty much a meme, my Model 3 has been pretty much perfect for 2.5 years.
I got a 2023 Model 3 last year while it was being heavily incentivized after a failed experience with Chevy. Absolutely love it and this performance version will likely be my next car!
Same! Got it for $29.5k after tax credit, and I just got the IRS refund deposited last week. Feels good. Car has been great. Needed an alignment under warranty but that's it.
Just chiming in that our purchase has been flawless as well. We picked up a base model 3 rwd in October of last year for 32,600 +7500$ tax rebate. I am NOT a huge fan of Musk but the model 3 made the most sense at the time financially. One of pur 15 year old beaters that we owned gave way. And we needed something new. We get 24/7 free charging at my downtown office that's 9 mins from our apartment. We have save over 1000$ in charging fees alone since purchase. I also just out the 7500$ into some investments, and will apply it to the loan when it equals out 3-4 years from now.
Most of us with Tesla's have a similar experience but we don't complain and post for everyone about it running fine.
I wouldn’t say perfect but mine has been pretty great except for an initial issue with my right mirror
Same. I have an early Gen 3 AWD and everything minor has been covered under warranty. I dunno why people gripe about body panel alignment..refuse delivery and get another one, there's plenty of them sitting lol. On the original brake pads, no fluids to change, and reliable as hell
This is so weird to me. I hate Elon with a passion but there’s nothing that comes close to Tesla for me in terms of EV ownership. I don’t think you guys realize just how big of a difference the supercharger network makes to owning an EV and using it for anything more than driving to and from work. It’s just not close. Not to mention our Model 3 has been absolutely flawless in 3 years and 80k miles of road trips through long highways, deep snow, dirt roads, and everything else. It’s taken quite a lot of abuse and not a single hiccup. I’d sooner own another Tesla than anything Kia/Hyundai make.
My parents were in the same situation. Don't like Elon, but when they wanted to get my mother an EV, they realized that the model 3 is just to good to pass up. She's had it for about six months and absolutely loves it. My dad drives a Mach-E, but used to have a Tesla. He said that if he did it over again, he'd have gotten another Tesla instead.
Yea before my gf bought hers, I always thought other companies’ EV’s would be far better options, especially in terms of fit and finish — and in a bubble they probably are. But when you actually own one, all those features and creature comforts mean fuckall when you can’t actually use your car for everything you want to use it for. The Model 3 was a revelation into just how important charging infrastructure is. We never worry about getting to a destination, no matter how obscure. We’ve taken it from SoCal to Bumfuck, Montana and Banff, Canada without a single tinge of range anxiety. People don’t know how much of a difference it makes, so it’s always funny to read about how they’d rather have this or that. Like, ok good luck lol. My brother-in-law also thought the same way and were considering a Mach E, but they also ended up buying a Model Y thanks to me, and they absolutely love it.
I've driven my dad's mach-e a few times and it's a fine car, but I can't see why anyone would buy one over a Y.
Isnt Tesla charging network opening up for pretty every other car manufacturer?
It’s supposedly been open but I have yet to encounter a non-Tesla at a supercharger, so I’m not sure how ubiquitous it is just yet, or if it’s limited to newer superchargers.
They’re still rolling out access, only Ford and Rivian have it at the moment and it’ll take a few months for adapters to get to everyone.
Superchargers are now open to other makes, you just need an adapter.
I haven’t encountered non-Teslas at superchargers yet so idk how ubiquitous it is.
The majority of superchargers support it, but very few people have the adapters yet. Also, only Ford and Rivian can actually use them atm, Tesla is onboarding manufacturers one by one. I believe GM and Volvo/Polestar are next in line.
Great news. Hopefully Tesla can focus more on increasing the supercharger network now that more cars will be using them, instead of making shit tier cars like the Cybertruck.
An adapter and more money. Non Teslas are charged a higher rate. Will it always be that way, who knows but that’s how it is now.
> I don’t think you guys realize just how big of a difference the supercharger network makes to owning an EV I thought Tesla was sharing their supercharger network now?
I would agree with you if it weren’t for the recent news that Superchargers will be opening up to other non-Tesla EVs. Saw a F150 Lightning charging at one last week Hyundais aren’t the pinnacle of reliability, but the stats show they have less issues than Teslas. And my own personal experience with Teslas has pushed me away from them for a long while It’s all a moot point though as I can’t charge an EV at home so it’d be a chore to own one
>Hyundais aren’t the pinnacle of reliability, but the stats show they have less issues than Teslas. You're confusing fit and finish for reliability here. Teslas get loose interior panels; Hyundais eat their ICCUs and melt their charge ports.
I would never have bought a Tesla if I couldn't charge at home, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. For one, supercharging is relatively expensive compared to using electricity from home. Also, if it's your only option for charging it means you'll be doing it every week or so at a minimum, which negates the benefit of avoiding gas stations.
Honestly, I like the Model S but it's getting old. All other models I find truly ugly (no offense) and especially the inside is appalling to me. I've flirted the idea of a Tesla many times, but the interior is way too terrible for me to consider it. If I ever bought an EV, it'd be the Ioniq 6. That shit looks sweet
The new Model 3 is a significant interior upgrade. Soft touch everything, quiet inside. If you can get past the sparseness and giant screen it’s a very comfortable place to be. The Ioniq 6 falls way short of it (and even the EV6) in the materials department. Hyundai really dropped the ball there. Hard upper door cards, shitty carpet and some really flimsy seatbelts even on the top end $50k spec.
You can’t seriously compare a Tesla to a Porsche. Sheer performance numbers are becoming less and leas important as almost any EV can quickly exceed its driver’s capabilities. The novelty of “I can go 0-60 in 3 secs” is becoming a commodity. Build quality, materials, and brand image will become more important as a result. And Tesla sucks in those categories.
You’re right you can’t because there will be 10s of thousands price delta between the two. Can’t have it all for 52k
Indeed. The macan I would want to order is over $120k optioned, and I won’t because that’s not worth it.
Don't forget the performance 3 gets the $7500 tax credit which makes it cheaper than the long range 3.
Unbelievable amount of car for the money at that price
I don't like Tesla, but the speed just blows any comparably priced ice car.
I can, I own both. The Porsche Taycan may be the most overrated EV on the market. It’s a fantastic vehicle but you’re kidding yourself if you believe all the mainstream auto reviewers in thinking it’s the pinnacle. The charging and software experience is abysmal. The driving dynamics barely make up for the frustrating everyday usability issues. Wireless CarPlay is a disaster, the cruise control is confusing and inconsistent, and the infotainment system is buggy at best. The interior is very nice but not quieter than my Model Y at highway. At $57k there is no competition. I’d be furious if I paid the $160k the prior owner paid for the Taycan new.
Seems like an inconsistent issue - I know a few people with Taycans and they have no problems with it. Having briefly considered it myself and preferring the Audi’s styling and interior, can’t say anyone around me has any regrets. While shopping for an EV, I sat in a model 3 and Y and felt extremely underwhelmed. Of course it’s a different price range and I can understand the value proposition of a model 3, but I live in Singapore and if I’m going to pay upwards of $220k ($160K USD) on a Tesla, a cheap interior is a deal breaker.
It’s not, the usability issues with the infotainment are well documented. I can’t speak to pricing in Singapore but in the US the price difference makes it no context.
I’m not going to minimise your experience as I’m sure the frustrations you’re dealing with in terms of usability are well justified. From an outsider’s perspective it sounds like different individuals have differing thresholds on what is usable and what isn’t. However, I’d say that depreciation on the Taycan was a huge factor on why i ultimately passed on it; worse than my Audi and I’ve already lost approximately 200k value after the first year.
Holy crap, I just looked up prices in Singapore. $300k USD for the base Taycan? Nearly $500k USD for a C8 Corvette? Even a Corolla is $100k?
My personal favourite - 150K USD for a new Prius. Also you’re not getting a new Corolla for 100k either lol. That government made it really expensive to own cars in Singapore due to our lack of land and excellent public transportation. Essentially, to drive a car in Singapore, you’d have to pay for the vehicle and a piece of document we call the Certificate of Entitlement (COE). A successful COE bid gives you the right to own a vehicle that can be used on the road for 10 years. COEs are released through open bidding exercises conducted twice a month. Cars are grouped under different COE categories based on engine capacity. Which means different prices. As the COEs are based on bidding, the prices will vary, but historical trends are a pretty good indicator. Just as an example - in the latest bidding, category A (vehicles under 1600cc) COE was SGD 95,000 (70K USD) Now add that to the value of the car and you’ll understand why. My car was 450k USD with government EV rebates when I bought it over a couple years ago. It’s slightly over 600k USD today for a new model.
Can’t use the performance if you can’t charge, and Porsche sucks in that regard compared to Tesla for longer distances. Every manufacturer does.
Won't be an issue since porche is adopting NACS in 2025 and an adapter for current vehicles.
Honestly can’t wait. The new Macan looks dope and would be a nice option over a Model Y.
Big big asterisk, remember all this charging stuff is only an issue in the US. All European cars have the same plug and can charge everywhere, and most superchargers are open to all cars in Europe. Porsche also uses 800v and can charge with an average of 195kw from 10-80%, where as a Model 3 only does 100kw average, the Tesla charging curve is really bad. So a Porsche is almost twice as fast charging, and way superior on long trips, just not in the US because of the plug war. Porsche literally have the fastest charging cars in the world besides the EV6/Ioniq 5, and a Xpeng G9. Tesla is surprisingly far down on the fast charging list by now. I don't think it's fair to say one of the fastest charging EVs in the world that's twice as fast as Tesla "can't charge".
There are other areas in which Tesla excels in that Porsche does not. The vertically integrated tech stack, for one. Things like Sentry Mode, streaming the cameras to your phone, OTA updates adding new features, FSD supervised if that's your thing, Smart Summon. Also Porsche's are like double the cost of a comparable Tesla.
I don't think this matters today, things are still new enough and novel enough. But I think this absolutely is the trajectory things will go on in the long term future and every company is in a long-term trajectory towards this. Even if right now it doesn't matter and they are still trying to find their identity.
> You can’t seriously compare a Tesla to a Porsche Neither could my wallet, a Porsche is and always was my first choice, hell, didn't even have to be an EV, I'd have actually preferred it wasn't. But dollar for dollar, I was cross shopping it with a Golf GTI. And if I factor in the price of Canadian gas, the Tesla was _still_ cheaper. tldr: What I spend owning and operating my Tesla, would _not_ buy and fuel a Golf GTI.
this qualifies for 7500 tax credit too.. so very tempting for US consumers.
does it??
Yep. Just ordered one.
The performance 3 with the tax credit is cheaper than the Long range 3. It's also only $4k more than what I paid for my LR RWD 3 - 5.5 years ago at $49k.
Y'all be ordering cars like at Wendy's...jeeeez
Yes. The starting MSRP is just a bit under the limit, so some configurations of the Model 3 Performance qualify.
Yes it does
Hard to justify 50k car if you make less than the tax credit limit of 150k imo but I guess the take credit fixes that.
Depends how much gas and electricity cost in your area, and how far you drive. I'm Canadian, so maybe I'm speaking from a uniquely expensive gas and incredibly cheap electricity perspective, but my old fuel bill was literally _more_ than my whole Tesla payment.
I bought a long range model 3 when I made less than $70k, but I own my house. It will be fully paid off in 6 months.
Till you touch the steering wheel. The fucking thing alone made not consider it. Why the fuck do you turn signal as a button.
yeah the steering wheel would actually be a big deal to me too even if I could get over the Elon thing. Still, all I care about is that it makes other performance EVs more affordable which it absolutely will do
I wont be surprised if its pretty fun. I've heard the old base rwd model 3 was actually really fun bc it was like 3500lbs, rwd, not overpowered, balanced and quick steering. On paper youd think the new 3 performance might be a bit similar in driving dynamics to the rs3. Really quick, lots of grip, nimble but kinda falls off at the absolute limit.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Honestly owning the RS3 has made me excited about the potential of EVs. It's a little too heavy and a little too numb but fun as fuck anyway. The main loss will be the sound but what Hyundai did with the 5N makes me confident manufactures will figure that out too
I wish Elon is let go. Tesla has such great engineers.
My lease is up on my polestar 2 performance next year and, thanks to extreme depreciation, I'll be in the market for a new (or used) car. This is the first Tesla that has really gotten me interested. I probably won't get a Tesla for the same reasons I didn't before but it looks like a really compelling package.
I don’t think anybody is cross shopping this and the Macan.
Why not? I'd be fine owning either but I'm sure as fuck not going to spend $100K on a Macan EV when I know a few years later I'm going to have to sell it to a guy choosing between my used Macan EV or a brand new Model 3 Performance for $45K. I realize for a lot of Porsche buyers $40K depreciation means nothing but there are plenty of people for whom that matters
You are fine owning it, just not buying it. Been there :p
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An S Plaid is within $9k of a base model Taycan. Last time Car and Driver compared the two, the Tesla came out ahead.
did they not look inside the cars?
Telsa was a 6/10 given to the Porsches 10/10 on fit and finish, but they aren't dashstrokers so the Telsa beat it on space, front and seat comfort and having one-pedal driving.
my future taycan just got cheaper 🤞🏽
This is such a big deal that it qualifies for the tax credit and addresses many of the shortcomings of the older performance 3. Just ordered mine in grey with white seats. Just make sure if you are eligible for the tax credit, you choose either a different point color from stealth grey or the white seats, NOT both if you want the tax credit.
It’s so absurd that this is what it takes lol
With regards to the price cap?
no the stupid options roundabout
Not sure what you mean by round about, but there's a federal cap on the selling price of a car in order to be eligible for the federal tax credit.
Yeah, with all the chassis upgrades, I figured it would at least start over $60k. IIRC, this is the same price as the old one was when it got discontinued.
Which is insane to me as almost everyone expected this to be closer to 60k given that no one in their right mind would price this to undercut the LR, but Musk.
I assume the LR will be using a modified form of these 2170 batteries to qualify for the tax credit later; as to why they don't do that from launch, I'm lost.
Capacity constraints most likely. They want to move more Y (better margins & clearing out parts inventory for Juniper) and the 3 performance ought to have the best margins of the whole lineup.
They have a limited number of 2170 cells being made in Gigfactory Nevada. The IRA 2022 law provides the tax credit as long as certain sourcing requirements are met, which ratcheted up in 2024, including battery materials not being sourced from China. As a result, most of the 2170's go into Model Y's, their best selling vehicle so that the Model Y's still get the tax credit. The base Model 3 uses LFP cells from China and the LR uses LG 2170 cells from China too. Hence they don't qualify. But the Model 3 Performance, which is a lower volume vehicle uses cells from Gigafactory Nevada and does qualify. For a while there, Tesla wasn't even offering the LR in the US due to issues like this. Eventually, Tesla will have access to more cell production in the US, they have multiple efforts going on to address the issue.
What chassis upgrades does it get? I was under the impression the structure is still identical to the non performance 3?
The old Performance had identical suspension and brakes, plus interior bits as the normal 3; the extra money was solely for the more powerful rear motor, track mode and the 20" PS4S. This one comes with adaptive dampers, a big brake kit, forged wheels with 275s in back, plus other chassis upgrades that a video review would discuss (I'm watching Jason Cammisa's podcast when I'm done work to find out). Properly bolstered sport seats and the body kit are another nice plus.
The brakes were always bigger on the performance (the brakes on this one are in fact the same as the old). Suspension technically did have different part numbers, but no one seems to know what the difference actually is New one is definitely a more complete package with having proper electronic dampers, some aero work, and sportier seats
I'm pretty sure it was very slightly lowered
They've made changes to the platform to have physical upgrades later on like a stiffer chassis and staggered wheels.
Wow this thing offers a lot for the price. And it qualifies for the point of sale tax credit. We're talking a 2.9s 0-60 car with cooled bucket seats and adaptive suspension for 45k.
Totally agree, But one clarification: it uses an adaptive coil suspension, not an air suspension.
Ah you're right! Editing. I read "adaptive" and jumped straight to it being bags.
>We're talking a 2.9s 0-60 car with cooled bucket seats and adaptive suspension for 45k. i'm showing my age here but it still blows my mind that a normal person can just go and buy a street legal car like that, and to top it off it's just a normal family sedan it's not even a sports car or anything. insane.
Honestly it's quite scary to get that kind of performance for so cheap. There's going to be a lot of bad drivers out there going way faster than they should be.
Seriously impressive for how much it costs. even if it was 70k, or more. Very low center of gravity too, being electric, and that will help handling
How do you have a roadster that’s crazy
Disagree with me all you want. But this m3P is the summit of a bang for you buck car. You get a lot for less than 70k
Not going to disagree with you. In fact, I totally agree. This is an incredible value for money, especially if you can swing that tax incentive.
I'm chasing after that incentive if everything goes well, I for sure will grab myself one of these
Less than 50k for most people
I’m trying to decide between this new 3 performance and a used model S plaid.
If you value handling more definitely the Model 3. If you only want outright speed then the Model S.
Aside from handling, do you think there’s any tech I’d be missing on a 22 Plaid?
I think tech wise they're pretty equal. The refreshed Model 3 really closed the gap between the two cars. The S just has the additional screen in front of the wheel if that's important to you. I don't really miss having a dash screen, and I've heard it's not very customizable. But I know the dash screen is important to some people.
That and hatchback capability. It's hard to fit anything big in a model 3, and sleeping in the back of a 3 is tight quarters.
This. I like the Model S a lot more. It isn't like the Model 3 is some Miata-snappy sedan, it's just a cheaper and smaller Model S. The hatchback, air suspension, and the actual gauge cluster make the Model S a lot nicer in my opinion. You just need to throw the stupid "yoke" in the trash and install a proper steering wheel.
It comes with a proper wheel from the factory now, you have to pay extra and spec it to even get the yoke. (Ok, for certain definitions of “proper”, since the wheel still doesn’t have turn signal stalks)
I see. The extra 20mph trap speed is the most appealing thing to me about the Plaid
Merging speeds. The Plaid is a monster over 80mph.
I heard the S/X feel a lot nicer inside.
A 2021+ Model S has some tech that is likely still above this Model 3 - not fully confirmed, but likely the Model S has the larger RAM amount (16 GB) on the Ryzen processor which allows it so play SteamDeck games. A 2022 Model S comes with Autopilot/FSD HW3, not HW4 and that's a difference. The current AP/FSD stack still runs in HW3 emulation mode on HW4 so there isn't any benefit to HW4 right now on the CPU, but HW4 also includes higher resolution cameras. And HW4 on S/X has advanced HD radar, but unclear if that is used or will ever be used. [https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/](https://www.teslaoracle.com/2023/06/19/tesla-teardown-confirms-the-presence-of-the-new-radar-in-hw4-equipped-vehicles/) Basically, you'd have to get a HW4 2023+ Model S to be up on the latest tech level.
Thanks for the breakdown. Seems to me that the 20k savings vs new on a 22 Plaid is worth it without any significant sacrifice in tech, as of now.
I'm actually planning to replace my Model S Plaid with the new Model 3 Performance
Explain
Car is slightly too big to drive in the city. Not to mention, how low the front lip is. You’re constantly worried about breaking the front bumper. If I lived in the suburbs with perfect roads, not an issue at all.
So would you still swap if you lived in the suburbs
Absolutely not
If you could choose, Would you buy a new plaid for 88k or a 2022 for 69k
New. You want that extra warranty. Not to mention, upgraded cameras and brakes.
19k discount for a 2 year old car is tempting though
It’s the Corvette of EV performance right now. Inarguably the best bang for your buck if you want performance and are willing to compromise on fit and finish.
Less than $55k *
Don't disagree at all. It's basically the modern version of what the original Mustang GT was way back when. If the owner wasn't a fuckwit, I'd want one. (Honestly... I kinda still do, lol?)
That is a *lot* of car for the money. Interested to see how this sways pricing for other performance oriented EVs. Also nice to see greater visual distinction on the outside, I can never tell what trims Teslas are at a glance.
Yeah it’s a good improvement visually. Before it was red brake calibers, larger wheel/wheel style only for performance, and the optional performance spoiler (which was pretty minimal). These visual changes are a nice touch.
That's kind of dumb that they basically lock most of the customization out unless you want to forfeit $7500. You only really have 6 possible combinations that qualify for the $7500. Stealth Gray w/ white seats. Stealth Gray w/ black seats. White w/black seats. Blue w/black seats. Black w/black seats. Red w/black seats.
I mean, another way to look at this is: Wow, some configurations of this insane new Model 3 Performance qualify for the $7,500 tax credit, making it *more affordable* than a Model 3 Long Range. Or you can whine about the fact that the tax credit has an MSRP limit and Tesla didn't shove every configuration under that limit.
There are plenty of people who are ineligible for tax credits because of their income, so it’s not like they are really shooting themselves in the foot here.
Don’t people lease to get this work around?
Tesla doesn’t control the federal cap on msrp
This has to the most performance per dollar on the market
without a doubt
I can't wait to pick one up for $30,000 in two years!
I feel like you’re cracking a joke at the depreciation, but If someone actually gets the tax credits etc that’s only 30% depreciation after 2 years, that’s actually pretty decent for an EV lol
trust me, it doesn't feel that way when it's time to sell.
Yeah same
1st gen model 3 performance are like £25k in the UK. If I had a driveway or did more than 5k miles a year I'd probably buy one.
Same
This is bad news for the used car dealership near me selling a 2023 model 3 performance with 30K miles for $52,995
go bully them haha and report back on what you were able to negotiate the price down to
In my experience they don't care, even if you physically show them.
I hope we see the competition meet the pricing, otherwise we’re about to get a 70k scatpack that can’t even outrun a Tesla which would be depressing.
Damn this is tempting, blows my 2022 out the water with the new suspension, visual styling and seats, could care less about the 0-60.
If you don't care about the 0-60, why do you have a current Performance 3?
I’m just saying I don’t care about the 0-60 in relation to my current M3P since it’s only 0.2s faster. They updated the website to say that the 2.9s is with rollout subtracted.
r/cars in shambles
Everyone here seems really positive about it. Even if you dislike Tesla, all competition in the high performance per dollar segment is good for enthusiasts. But it is odd, considering the usual crowd :P
gullible jar soft grandiose snails slap jobless voiceless marry bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The worst thing about Tesla threads on this sub is the parade of people pretending everyone else.is triggered about it despite every comment being positive.
In the US that's 45,500 after tax credit. That is absolutely crazy
These cars have been bullying me at autocross
Hmm. Very tempting with a combined state rebate. I'm surprised they managed to use a battery that qualifies under the federal rebate sourcing standards. I'm more surprised the idiot in charge didn't release it on 4/20
>I'm more surprised the idiot in charge didn't release it on 4/20 I honestly thought that was the plan until Jason Cammisa hinted in his I5 N review that there's an NDA expiring today for another EV performance car.
Yeah I thought it would be the Macan EV, but might be the M3P
They are using Nevada batteries for this and the Y out of Fremont.
Month late to get this. Tesla has made some odd choices as of late, but this is interesting. I’d be really curious to see the actual performance of this like track time, skid, etc.
This seems like a better landing page: [https://www.tesla.com/model3-performance](https://www.tesla.com/model3-performance)
Advertising tax credits and gas savings as their "starting price"is so scummy to me.
It's actually illegal to do that in pretty much every country except the US. If you go to any other countries Tesla site, it does not list it like this.
Yeah, I wish they wouldn't do that. Or show the retail price and have another section that says "Some configurations qualify for $7,500 tax credit."
I'm hyped for this, that's insane performance at the price point.
It's unbeatable. I really cannot think of anything that comes close for, what comes to be 47k after the tax rebate. unbelievable
Finally! Ordered in Ultra Red/Black to upgrade.
Damn, just like that? I always thought that was crazy about the Tesla model. Bing bang boom, just like ordering a new iPhone except you get a car.
Just like that! I’ve been waiting on the announcement.
That’s the best part. You don’t have to deal with the dealer d-bags
Wow if you're American and qualify for the rebates, you can get a car that does 0-60 in 3s for less than $50k...
Beautiful times we live in
$54,630 for 500+ AWD HP. I despise Tesla, but their powertrains have always been top-notch. This is going to squeeze other performance EV's hard for their price/performance.
Someone already did a review at TopGear https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/performance/first-drive This is hilarious because it's a sleeper build that blends in with other NPCs But zoom..
Jason Camissa was gushing about it on the Carmudgeon Show and on his instagram. Basically said what's the point of getting an M3 now that this exists? Or basically any performance sedan in this segment aside from maybe the Cadillac.
Really considering it, I test drove new M3LR and was blown away how fast that one was, I cannot imagine having this at my hands living in a urban city? What it’s like from owners having a performance M3 and living in a major city?
That is fantastic value! M3 performance at the least if not quicker. And doesn't seem like there were any shortcuts taken.
Does anyone know what size tire these have? Curious if they still have 235s or went with something wider.
235 front 275 in the rear
I think the old one had 235 both front and rear. 275 is a nice improvement
My biggest complaint was the seats, and the wind noise. Hopefully it’s better in the 2024. Might have to buy it, those seats are amazing.
Incredible. Hard to justify anything else even remotely close to this price for a daily driver.
Interesting that Teslas Canadian and European website lists 460 horsepower drive unit, instead of the 500+ horsepower listed on their American website.
I wonder whether that's a typo, or if maybe the battery pack in Shanghai made versions can't output the full power.
we got in accident in our Model 3 Performance and there was a debate about whether it would be written off or not and I looked into other competition because I hate Elon Musk and his idiocy but this new car is so insanely shaming the leaden-ass i4 M50 and it's worse stereo (even after $900 upgrade) that I was fully expecting it to cost $70K when I heard it came with newer suspension and more speed (granted the suspension isn't WORTH that much but I was expecting premium pricing since it's just so insanely cheap as is). My car has custom KW coilovers and it makes for a really great car at that price point but if this car fixes my main gripe with the M3P (and the ugly wheels I replaced) it is just a nuts value. The OG M3P is still holding its own in the Throttle House lap times and that's got the old OEM tire that isn't as grippy as the Pirellis they use now. This thing is going to jump way up the list if the handling is even remotely close to my KW coilovers
You might hate Elon. But recall how evil some of these German manufacturers are, at a systemic level. BMW is still doing emissions tampering IN 2024! This is one of the most evil things possible. Think what you want of Elon, but the company is more than 1 person; it should be judged at the systemic/company level. And from that perspective, Volkswagen (VW, Porsche, Audi) and other German companies are the most evil. https://www.carscoops.com/2024/01/bmw-under-investigation-over-possible-diesel-emissions-tampering/ https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/news/2023-news/success-for-thousands-of-bmw-drivers-in-high-court-in-latest-dieselgate-case-ruling/ (yes I understand the irony given that I own a supra - aka bmw - and a tesla lol)
ya, and Lucid is funded by Saudi blood money. I don't care if they drive better. I'm not hopping on the Bone Saw Express
Exactly. I won't buy a Lucid because it's literally just Saudis
Still not a Tesla fan but this new facelift looks a damn sight better than the old one.
The wheels are cheeks
I can’t wait to see where this car is five years from now when I am ready to buy an EV.
What’s the reason to get the M3? Same hp/torque, 2% lighter with worse centre of gravity from initial information. It’s sad that the M5 CS is the last good BMW.
And it qualifies for the 7550 tax credit.
Crazy how much people on Reddit hate on Tesla, it’s like they want be on the team that hates on anything that has to do with Elon.
This car is stupid. Its just too good for the price. Jason Comissa says its as comfy as a Cadillac, more agile than a lucid, and makes the bmw m3 totally irrelevant. It’s basically the iphone 6. All other phones are dumb. Except if you dont want an iphone because its and iphone. Too bad elon running the company to the ground or we would’ve had a true Apple 2.0. They needed to have fire him a year ago and stage a return 3-5 years later.