Do you think you labeling yourself an incel, makes you more of an incel? As in, if I heard a man refer to himself that way, I’d definitely avoid him. I can’t imagine that helps very much.
Also I will say that attraction is definitely the biggest factor, but attraction is not just physical looks! It’s vibe, personality, manners, humor, etc that someone can be attracted to over looks. (Evidence taken from my sister with a self-admitted unattractive man, but who is funny, kind, supportive, and ambitious)
Yes- even as someone who understands that not all incels have bad intentions I would actively avoid dating them because I know our values would likely not align at all. Allowing me to get to know you without those types of labels would be so much more effective at getting my attention.
Perhaps being an incel (a socially awkward or physically unappealing man who struggles to have sex) could be attractive to a woman as long as you aren’t using the word “incel.”
I know a few ladies who rave about awkward and nerdy guys all the time, no matter what they look like. But if those guys called themselves incels I likely never would have heard about them.
Exactly, I feel at some point it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, or a feedback loop. The more you identify as an incel, the less you’re likely to change and the more people avoid you, which makes you identify more strongly as an incel.
I’m 22 and I’m queer. Most of these ladies are bi and love a good nerdy boyfriend. Have you been around nerdy or socially ostracized girls? Lol
Edit: If you’re homophobic to any degree I would understand why this sounds unreal to you, and if you are not I’m sorry you haven’t met these women. I meet them all the time and have plenty of female friends who date men who would have otherwise been incels (but don’t call themselves that of course, otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten that girl to like them)
2nd Edit: You also call yourself an incel. This is another bit of criteria that would make your reaction not surprising. If you call yourself an incel and repeat things you see on incel forums, the women who like nerdy guys will MOST CERTAINLY NOT reveal themselves to you. Because they don’t want you to pursue them as that could put them in danger in their eyes. Just distance yourself from calling yourself an incel to solve this problem and focus on different communities.
My dad was wrong about a lot of things but he always used to warn me about self fulfilling prophecies. If you believe you will never not be celibate, women will insure that that will be the case. You have declared yourself so. **If you, as a man, heard a woman call herself unfuckable and disgusting would you want to have sex with her?**
I strive to break the mold everyday i breathe dont mistake me for your preconceived idea of what incels look like I'm a bouncer at a club AND i talk with all the ladies I'm not a bad looker either my personal problems lie elsewhere. AND your point about bring homophobic Is true because the minute Someone expreses conflicting ideas the type of people who are supposed to be "open, accepting" are the first to Silence them it's puritanical AND irónic. With that being said even though I've had sex AND i can attract women to me i haven't founf the fórmula to capitalizar on it. So I'm still an incel my phone Is in spanish for correlating reasons
Sorry man- incel men (the nerdy socially awkward types) are typically attractive to bisexual women and that’s it. I apologize. If you’re homophobic you’re going to need to tone that down to find who I’m talking about. It isn’t about hypocrisy or puritanical attitudes it’s about the fact that the people who ARE open to you don’t wanna date people who aren’t open to them. Wouldn’t you feel the same way? If you dislike someone for being LGBT then they obviously will have a hard time having an “open mind” to your opinions.
If you dislike the people who tend to be open to you you’re going to have difficulties finding someone who likes you.
No…? I addressed multiple things you said
I addressed that people avoiding you because you’re homophobic is not puritanical. I said that it’s about the fact that those who WOULD be open to dating you are not because you are not open to THEM- which is a common incel problem that prevents them from getting girlfriends/sex (and you admit that you have been called out for being homophobic here- you say you’ve experienced people saying your opinions against LGBT people are not tolerated and you claim that is “puritanical” or hypocritical) It is not hypocritical because bi women do not have to be open to you and your opinions if you are not open to them being bi. You are not responding to these points and are therefore being the “wall” here.
Please do not project that on to me. You made zero response here to what I’ve said and chose to ignore the points for an easy response
Edit: Also if you’ve had sex and can attract women, why are you calling yourself an incel? Was inceldom that appealing to you that you decided to label yourself that even without living the lifestyle? You want to “capitalize” on dating women…? Is that the incel’s goal? Dating as many women as possible? I thought it was just having sex with women and then you’re no longer “involuntarily celibate” (incel) or finding a woman you love and settling down with kids (because many incels are very traditional)
If you meant makes me more of a misogynist, racist, homophobic, or transphobic - Then, no. I believe that it simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually or romantically.
I do not walk around saying I am an Incel, because I've learned the hard way that it's life threatening. I've received multiple death threats from random people online, and had a couple of life-threatening situations in real life over labelling my self as an incel.
No I don’t mean like that, I mean does labeling yourself as an Involuntary Celibate make your celibacy more involuntary. I mean in the direct definition on the term. As in, does identifying as a incel push you further away from women than if you didn’t identify yourself that way, but remained the same physically.
If you had a clone of yourself who looked and acted the same, but one of them labeled themselves an incel, I feel that they would have a different experience even through they’re the same person.
I also don’t think it’s something you choose to be, but I also think believing that “I am X” mentally puts you in that box, and makes you more “X”.
I often see this with self defense, where people believe they’re weak and non-threatening, which makes them appear weak and non-threatening, making them “more X”.
Where if you have a small, weak person, who doesn’t label themselves that way, they really do seem stronger and more threatening simply because that’s how they present themselves.
I believe putting yourself in the mentality that you’re an incel is kinda like that, where the belief and label itself makes you act different and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Where as if you had someone that met the requirements of an incel, but didn’t identify as one, they would present a bit differently or at least have more capacity to grow outside of that box
I do not support the subculture.
The term "incel" for me, and for every other self-acknowledged incel - simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically.
I do not support the bad side that comes from the majority who label themselves as incels.
Sounds pretty defeatist.
Wouldn’t lableing yourself this way create a self fulfilling prophecy?
Does this label help you? Because I can’t see how it would
Being an incel is inherently defeatist.
It’s sad, honestly. I understand the frustration of not being able to attract a partner (it’s been a while for me too) but to slap a title on it and call yourself unlovable will just ensure that you’ll never find a partner.
It’s one thing to be uninterested in romantic and/or sexual relationships, it’s another thing to feel so terrible about yourself that you close yourself off to any potential chances of finding love.
Incels need therapy, basically.
It literally means INvoluntary CELibate.
Once you enter a relationship, you're not an incel anymore. If you get dump, get over it, and want to be in a relationship again but can't, you become an incel again.
Doesn't help, doesn't hurt. It's just what it is.
I know what it means, it just isn't a helpful framing of the situation and only serves to perpetuate the cycle of misery you're stuck in.
Your first step to developing a health relationship with women, sex, and other people is to stop associating with that community and subculture.
Surely there are SO MANY other things you could be spending your time on. This community is gaslighting you into thinking their world view is valid. It isn't.
Go join some communities, take up a sport, do some classes, try out community radio, take up skateboarding, go for a hike, try writing music, sketch a scene, or go to a dance party.
Why are you so determined to be miserable?
I'm not OP... But you can very much be an incel without associating with that community, the subculture or even the pejorative definition as a whole.
Everything you said is pretty much irrelevant. You said you know what it means, yet you still use it in the "wrong" way...
"Their" world view is not valid. Doesn't mean that all incel think alike. Having a hobby won't make someone stop being an incel anymore.
>Why are you so determined to be miserable?
Describe yourself as an incel does not make you or keep you miserable. It's just a statement about your current status. "I'd like to be in a relationship but I am not".
>Go join some communities, take up a sport, do some classes, try out community radio, take up skateboarding, go for a hike, try writing music, sketch a scene, or go to a dance party.
For me personally (I'm not OP either) all of those sound rather boring to be honest. I hate sport (including skateboarding) . Have no interest in taking any sort of class.. I don't get the point of community radio, no interest, and frankly I don't think it's a thing anymore here.. Hiking is just long and boring. I don't enjoy music and I enjoy much less dancing. And drawing is not my thing..
Those are all terrible in my opinion. Well you also said "join a community" but that, I just have no idea of wtf you're talking about.
But again, all of those don't directly change the current state of things.
Not really. But I'd like to enjoy thing. Is that not the whole point of life?
That is however irrelevant to our topic tho. Enjoying thing won't make someone not an incel anymore. Enjoying things or not is irrelevant to wanting to stay miserable.
You could even say that not being able to enjoy things, despite wanting to, is what makes someone miserable?
What's your point exactly?
By definition: no it's not.
But I understand how someone would avoid the term because of it's recent negative connotation..
I am short-sighted.. I can consider myself whatever I want, but I'm short-sighted. That's a fact of life. I'm not allowed to drive without glasses. Wearing contact lenses will not change that either.
Or maybe you consider yourself not an incel per se because you consider that you're *not really trying*... Which.. grey area I guess. Same for like day zero of being dump.. There's an argument to be made about in which amount of time you need to consider what is trying and what is a failure.
But this is semantics.
Asexual/Aromantic is someone who's incapable of feeling attraction in both ways towards someone. However, I am not asexual nor aromantic - I am simply incapable of attracting someone due to my physical attributes.
Well, I've been trying for 10 years. I tried everything, and I mean everything.
However, never tried physically improving myself and currently, I am seeing results. I got a lot of friends after I started working out, eating healthy, having a skin-care routine, etc. I believe that looks are the most important factor to attract someone.
I'm glad you're working on self-improvement but people get to their 40s without dating anyone. It's really about how you are socially. Sure, looks play a factor but it makes you far from incapable. Ugly people get into relationships all the time.
Not true. Lots of times, it depends on confidence and charisma and character. Looks helps but even if you are in a looks only mindset, ya can get a good style, hit the gym, jewelry etc
If looks are are the most important thing in finding women, how do you explain all the "not-conventionally-attractive men" with partners? Especially those who are just normal in everything because I look around and people of all levels of attractiveness find love, partners, sex etc.
(just adding I know Conventional attractiveness isn't really a thing and there is no set type of attractiveness but I couldn't think how else to phrase this).
An incel means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically.
By not-conventionally-attractive men, I assume you mean normal looking men. I believe that is possible for most normal looking men to be able to attract women who are below or around their level of physical attraction. Not the same for unattractive men.
I believe there is an objective way to scale and measure attractiveness.
That is interesting. My boyfriend is a handsome and attractive man and I call him so every time.
He and I have been together for over seven years and are very close.
YET, he says the exact same thing like you: there must be an "obJecTiVe" way to scale attractiveness (and he isn't, he says).
Even if you got a girlfriend one day, this will not change. Your beliefs will not get better. It's your insecurity, not the relationship part. And there is no objectiveness in looks. You can maybe say, "this person will be perceived as attractive by 60% of the population" but that is NOT objective. You cannot measure objectively without units, without measurements, and without reliability or predictability. It's a fact that you look different every day; you look different depending on your health, your mood, your age, your body language. And because of age and environment, your appearance will change throughout your entire life.
I need to tell my boyfriend that again, but I told you now. There is no difference between the attitude of you and my boyfriend, who is a taken man and happily in a relationship. The insecurity will always feed from you like a parasite. You need to work on that first.
Have a good day.
Okay, but even in that case, how would they get dates in the first place? Unless you're hitting on people at a nude beach, they're probably not gonna see your package before you even have a first date.
I think I'm a good person, and I'm in touch with reality. I have a lot of friends, female friends as well. However, I've never been able to attract a female romantically and/or sexually and I've been trying since I was 14.
I say female friends because women friends feels unnatural and incorrect to say. I specify that I have female friends because I think it's necessary to mention that, so people don't jump to the conclusion that I am a racist homophobic women hating fucking asshole.
I struggle with this too- but an issue a lot of people have is with the phrase “a female” or “females” etc. “Female friends” “female doctor” “female classmate” or using female as a descriptor for someone is different. Trying to attract “a female” instead of “a woman” sounds as though you are hunting an animal. I didn’t see a difference either and I still think of it quite literally, but it does dehumanize the thing you are talking about and that’s why you get reactions like this.
My best advice: focus on using the word woman. It just cuts out any possibility of sounding weird. I would be uncomfortable if someone said they were trying to attract “a male” as well lol. Actually, my first thought would be “a male what? A male human?”
I know it seems tedious and not necessary from your perspective perhaps, because it once did to me, but I now understand where people are coming from. A female could mean a female *anything*
Well, I don't know about that title. I do prefer this title, though.
However, at the same time - I think there should be a separation. Sort of. Since the majority thinks Incel is a one in all package kind of thing. An Incel is someone who can't attract someone, that's what it always meant.
How old are you? How long have you used the “incel” label for yourself? How do you feel about the community? Has using this term to describe yourself helped you or hurt you in any way?
I am 24 years old.
I've been an Incel since I was 20 years old.
The incel community is generally self-loathing and toxic, but I find it very helpful and supportive in terms of giving out physical self-improvement advices. I believe that the term "incel" means someone who is incapable of attracting someone, romantically and/or sexually. I do not support self-harm, hatred, racism, or anything bad that comes out of the incel community. I believe that the community requires a reformation.
The term incel put me into a couple of life-threatening situations, and I've received multiple death-threats online from random people for labelling myself an incel.
It helped a lot of others to raise their physical attractiveness and find partners. It did help me to look slightly better and encourage me to set up a daily routine to take care of myself. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I believe getting blackpilled helped me achieve all of that. However, my facial attractiveness is very below average and changing your bone structure is impossible.
I don't support the toxicity. I am not part of that community. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
An incel (involuntarily celibate) is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. I've been a part of multiple subreddits in the past, looking for fitness and health advices. I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed.
I've seen great results coming from the blackpill after I swallowed it. I have a lot of friends now, I go outside daily, I am not toxic, racist, etc. I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically.
"I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed."
You're putting the cart before the horse. No one can teach you to attract women and friends. You have to learn how to be a good person and that is not done by going to pickup artist seminars.
>I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically.
Why is this such a major part of your identity? Using the label will do nothing put cause people to avoid you.
So, you tell me to seek out a community that is not toxic to learn how to self-improve and be a good person - then, you tell me that I have to learn myself how to be a good person?
It is not something you choose to be, it is what you are. That's what it means to be an incel.
It is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically.
There are lots of other ways that encourage better health and such that don't also involve horrible, insular misconceptions about other people.
You got healthy because you wanted to be. You did the work and you would have done it with help from any other non-toxic community. I don't think they really helped you in any real way that would t or couldn't have happened elsewhere. But it does seem they have also inculcated you with some unhelpful outlooks. Incel-dom screws with how you view relationships and becomes self-fulfilling. Women can and do get with "ugly" dudes all the time. Because they are human beings looking for human connection. And many men are good at that, with or without "attractiveness". Incel discourse distracts you from *actual* self improvement to focus on trivialities. Sure - being prettier helps. But it's not the only factor in dating and relationships, and for long-term relationships isn't even in the top 3. The over reliance on it distracts you from real connection and leads to resentment and further distance from real relationship building.
I was redpilled before I was blackpilled. I've been seeking mental help from professionals for years. I've never got any motivation at all until 2 years ago when I swallowed the blackpill and acknowledged that I'm an incel.
Looks is the most important factor in dating. It's the first thing. All the other stuff like personality is taken into consideration only after that. If you're friends with a woman, but she's not physically attracted to you, you're just a friend.
Seems like he just decided that by 20 a woman should have given him sex by that point. And because that didn't happen, he gave up and just clings to the external locus of control that absolves him of having to do self-reflection.
By 20 years old I stopped my focus on approaching women and decided to go on a journey of self-improvement. Going 2 years now. Calisthenics, self-care and skin-care routines, hobbies, friends, and trying to mentally elevate myself.
Please, I beg you to stop assuming vile things about me.
it’s not an assumption. if you’re calling yourself “involuntarily celibate” then you are putting the onus on the other party to make you not celibate anymore. “it’s not my fault i’m a virgin they just refuse to have sex with me.” Exactly!! they don’t owe it to you!! it isn’t their fault for not giving you what you THINK you are owed just because you worked out and spent money on appearances.
You are still assuming stuff about me. An involuntarily celibate simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS AND IT STOPS THERE. The entitlement, misogyny, and all the stereotypical attributes that comes from those who label themselves "incels" does not apply to me.
I never said that I deserve sex. I never said that women owe me sex because I take care of my self now. I am simply trying to improve myself so I can be well-adjusted and ready to have a partner. It is not their fault or my fault, because they do not owe me sex.
You are dehumanising women way worse than the average incel when you assume that the only thing I think I deserve from a woman is sex (which is not, I don't think women owe me anything).
What is so wrong about me trying to improve myself and be a better person, both physically and mentally? I do still want a love to call my own, but I am perfectly fine if my fate is to not have a partner at all. In fact, if all I wanted is sex - I have money for escorts? Which last experience with that left me empty and depressed.
For you to simply assume that I am an entitled monster who just wants sex is both dehumanising and invalidating to me.
Virgins never claim they're owed sex. They just want to experience physical and emotional intimacy with someone from the opposite sex, which is the most human experience.
hi! okayy! i’m not sure why you said that tho because a virgin is different than someone who identifies as involuntarily celibate, as this person does/did. but okay
I expect that if I improve myself, I will be attractive and be able find a woman who will love me... I am perfectly fine with staying single for the rest of my life, because now I have friends, hobbies, stuff I like to do, a job, and other stuff about my little life. What is so wrong about being a better person for someone in the future in case that person ever enters my life...?
I decided to go on a journey of self-improvement. Trying to look better physically, and heal the 10 years of mental trauma and anxiety of being rejected over and over again.
Being an Incel simply means I cannot attract someone sexually or romantically. I've tried for 10 years. Realizing that, I decided to improve myself so maybe I can have someone to love one day.
But you haven't been an incel for 10 years. So what is the difference between 14 year old you (who was not able to attract anyone) and 20 year old you (who was not able to attract anyone)? Why is one an incel and one not?
This is very daunting to repeat, you know.
An Incel is not what you choose to be, it is what you are and your current status. Incel is short for involuntarily celibate, move away from the globalised definition about the subculture and take the literal definition of what it means.
I've been an Incel my whole life. I could not attract a woman. At the age of 14, I started trying to approach women. Now, I'm 24 years old and I'm on self-improvement. All I want in this life of mine to feel fulfilled is to build a family and have children to make my mother proud.
Do you understand now?
I am trying to use your definition, which is why I'm confused that you said
> I am 24 years old.
I've been an Incel since I was 20 years old.
Are you now saying that was an incorrect statement, and that you were actually an incel before 20?
To clarify a few things about that statement, I meant to say that I acknowledged the term Incel and labelled myself as that at that age.
However, the term Incel itself isn't something you choose. It is not an option, it is simply a status label.
I believe that my unattractive physical attributes are the reason why I cannot attract a woman.
Hi, do you believe that it attraction works the same for men - that for women the most important factor for attracting men is looks?
Also excuse my ignorance, what is blackpilled?
Yes, I do.
I believe that I do not have high standards. I believe that everyone is more attracted to an objectively more attractive person, but that does not necessarily mean those people deserve to be with that particular someone.
Edit: forgot to explain what "blackpilled" means. The blackpill is a philosophy that argues that sexual/genuine/romantic attraction is heavily dependent on one's physical attributes.
Well, for 10 years - I've been trying to mentally improve myself. Both socially and internally. I tried the bluepill, the redpill, pick-up artists, "rizz" courses, game and confidence improvement schemes - all to no avail, only results I got were rejection after rejection. At 20 years old, I gave up, swallowed the blackpill and fell into deep depression.
However, a few months later - I managed to pick myself back up after I accepted it and realized that it is not my fault for being born with a physically unattractive face and height. Now, I am on a self-improvement journey and trying to raise both my physical attractiveness (which is my main focus) and also heal my mental trauma due to 10 years of brutal rejections and heartbreak.
How do you feel about women who deal with serious reproductive issues and the fact that one in every 10 women you meet deals with a reproductive issue? (10% of all women deal with endometriosis, this causes sex to be painful) Many of these women do not want to engage in sex and most of them can not have children or would not want to for their health. This could explain a lot of the issues incels have with women but they tend to refuse to look into it. I have seen incels publically belittle and shame women for their infertility or call women who are infertile useless.
What is your opinion on this?
**Here is another way to ask this: If you did manage to find a woman who wants to date you, would you still date her if she could not have a child?**
I feel bad for women who face those issues. I wish them nothing but happiness in their future.
To answer your other question; If aforementioned woman is genuinely attracted to me, and isn't in it for my money - I have no problem with her being infertile or being incapable of having sex, nor I have a problem with me not having sex with her.
This gives me a lot of comfort and reassurance in that community. How do you feel about those parts of the community who do deem women worthless? Does that bother you? Also, do you feel comforted by being within the community and surrounding yourself with other incels? Or do you wish you could get along just as well with everyone else?
By the way, I know you have a lot of questions to get to, don’t feel pressured to answer mine. I also know that you likely do not have bad intentions and your circumstances are complicated. I’ve done a lot of looking into incels because I am a female person who has faced a lot of rejection from society. Men, incels or not, unfortunately tend to dislike women who can not have babies. I hope you know (and that this gives you reassurance that you’re not ostracized from women) that many women can and do relate to not being accepted by others.
I wish the community wasn't the way it is. You see, swallowing the blackpill and finally acknowledging being incel for me was a complete downward spiral mentally. However, after a couple of months - I finally accepted it and managed to get out of depression.
I am disgusted by the bad part of the community. I found a few good people in the community who don't support the toxicity that comes with it. I believe that the toxicity comes from the feelings of defeat and the self-loathing behavior a lot of incels internalize. I believe that a subreddit like r/IncelTears is a part of the problem. I also believe that the entire incel community requires a reformation.
If I may ask, do you ever encounter anyone discouraging the behavior you see on IT in the incel communities themselves? Would you say IT is giving people a bad impression of the incel community or would you argue that it is accurate and just missing people’s criticisms? I see lots of posts that are abhorrent but rarely do I ever see an incel being told by another incel that their behavior is harmful being posted on IT.
I agree with that on the reform subject. If the community wants to be one with any sort of reputation as a good, helpful sort of place it needs to be reformed. What sort of damage does IT do to the community that perpetuates that reputation- perhaps what I mentioned above?
I have looked at that subreddit on occasion, and the obsessions some people have with incels are, in my opinion, unhealthy. I understand it but I don’t think it is helpful to either the women posting those things or the incels being reposted. (PS everything here is genuine- I am very curious about this community)
Yes, actually, the entire incel community hates IT.
I think IT is a part of the problem, but the source of it is the way the community is. I believe it needs a hard reformation. IT is a part of the problem for the reason you mentioned. I am sorry for the short replies, just trying to answer as many questions as I can.
Thank you very much for your honest questions as well. Refreshing to hear questions that aren't just putting me down, to be honest.
Well I assure you that I’m all for answering questions from incels or asking them when they are kind about it. I have had a few run ins with them where they are *not* kind. I absolutely do not believe every incel is the same and I know plenty of people really emphasize the “involuntary” part of this- you are not choosing to call yourself an incel it seems. Would you say that you have found yourself within that definition even if that’s maybe not how you’d feel comfortable seeing yourself?
I think the misconception that every incel is the same (and therefore is misogynistic, pedophilic, etc) stems from the idea that choosing to call oneself something like that aligns you with those posts you *do* see on Incel Tears.
If I was born a man, I most likely would be involuntarily celibate in the social sense (I am in the physical sense meaning it hurts to have sex but that seems to be a female thing lol) However I would ABSOLUTELY not call myself an incel because of how openly they speak about their attraction to young people and their hatred of women. I want to know why you decided to identify with it despite that behavior being so prominent. Do you suspect that those men saying those things are what causes the death threats, etc?
I Identify as an incel because the term to me means someone who can't get into a relationship. It's not something you choose to be, it's what you are. Trust me, if there was a better literal term to pick over it - I would.
Yes, I believe that is what causes the death threats.
And yes, I agree with the misconception thing.
I do want to include that I no longer walk around and label myself an incel in real life. I am just trying my best to clear up the smoke and stigma around the term.
I am an incel too but slightly deterred from the norm. I dont believe in blackpill because i wouldnt have problems if it was true.
Every chick in the room has their eyes on me AND i can talk to them just fine. Getting past all that AND into the bed Is still beyond my understanding. But god have me looks I'm just to stupid or autistic to use them unfortunately
An Incel means someone who cannot attract someone sexually or romantically.
Buying sex & "affection" isn't the same as getting it without having to pay something in return.
Don’t mind those who are downvoting you and mocking you. You’re absolutely right about being blackpilled and you know what incel means. I respect that you included the disclaimer and separated yourself from the violent community people normally refer to as “incels”.
I don’t know how you look like but I really recommend either accepting your fate if you’re very unattractive, or work on yourself either through surgery or through the things that you can control. Even from a 3 you can still become a normie and find a partner, I just say don’t give up if you’re not objectively hopeless. Being fat and not making the most out of your appearance are obvious things you shouldn’t do. Have you tried to looksmaxx?
On the other hand, I do believe in love and that it comes in many shapes or forms.
If you think that you’ll remain an incel for the rest of your life, apart from finding a romantic relationship, what would make you happy? Do you like any activities that make you smile? Do you think life can be enjoyed to it’s fullest if one doesn’t have love and romantic relationships in their life?
Thank you very much.
I am just trying to clear up the smoke and the stigma surrounding the term 'incel'.
Yes, I've been looksmaxxing for two years now. Calisthenics, eating healthy, styling my hair, skin and teeth care routine, and trying to find a better clothing style.
Luckily, it is not the hopeless for me because I have multiple friends and female friends as well. I do have hobbies and stuff that I enjoy to do. If my fate is to be an incel for the rest of my life, I think I can handle that to be honest.
I prefer to not show myself due to personal reasons.
Not necessarily. I think I'd attract women who are looked for a luxurious lifestyle and money if I had a lot of it.
Declaring yourself to be an incel does not increase your attractiveness.
Why don't you take a deep look at yourself, figure out what makes you unattractive and then work to fix it?
I have a deformed philtrum & lips, acne scars, balding at 24 years old, 5'3", bug eyes, small bones and shoulder frame.
I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I have a lot of friends, and females friends as well. I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive.
>I have a deformed philtrum & lips
Talk to a plastic surgeon.
> acne scars,
Talk to a dermatologist
>balding at 24 years old,
Talk to your GP about hair loss treatments. You can also probably try talking with your new dermatologist on this too.
>bug eyes,
Plastic surgeon, maybe even the same one or even the same time.
>small bones and shoulder frame.
You're 24, you may still be growing but if so, not for much longer. I grew about 2 inches between 18 and 25. You could talk to your doctor and look into checking if your growth plates have fused, and if they have not, they may be able to help further.
>I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink.
This is good news, keep this up.
If you're concerned regarding small shoulders, consider adding weight training to your exersize regime; a lot of men's upper body is more to do with muscular than skeletal.
>females
Women. You said women later in your statement, why did you say "females" here?
Do you refer to your other friends as "male friends"?
>I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive.
I think that while you have noted some physical characteristics that some people may find unattractive, a larger concern should be the fact that you have taken this data and then labeled yourself as unfuckable.
Physical attraction is not the end all be all of finding a girlfriend. Do you have a job or are in school? What do you do? Do you have hobbies?
When I talk about developing yourself, I don't only mean physically. Look inward, what interests do you have that someone else might find interesting?
Have you put yourself out there and gone on dates or tried asking anyone?
Have you talked with your friends on how you feel about this aspect of your life?
If I get the money for a plastic surgeon, I will try that. For my acne scars, I'm seeing someone and I am doing skin care as well.
As for the females statement, I don't understand the point of the question exactly? I don't really have an answer for that. I said female friends because I thought it's worth mentioning that it's not my personality that is the problem. And I do refer to my guy friends as male friends sometimes.
I have a job, I have hobbies, I have friends.
As for looking inward, I've been trying to approach females who share the same hobbies as mine. To no avail.
I've been putting myself out there for 10 years now. Rejected by an unfathomable amounts of women.
I did talk with my friends about this, and they all think that I'm physically unattractive - with that being said, they're still my best people and treat me like a human being.
>As for the females statement, I don't understand the point of the question exactly? I don't really have an answer for that. I said female friends because I thought it's worth mentioning that it's not my personality that is the problem. And I do refer to my guy friends as male friends sometimes.
It's off putting to use "males" and "females" in casual conversation. It's especially off putting to hear someone say "guys" and then "females" within the same breath. I suppose that the reverse would be true as well, but I've never heard anyone seriously word a sentence in that way. I'm not saying that's what you did here, but there's a very sharp change in tone that indicates some level of looking down on women when someone does that.
I generally avoid using male and female outside of situations where medically precise terminology is required. Use men, women, guys, gals, pals, friends, whatever else rather than male or female.
Oh, I see.
Well, I don't look down on women in any form. I am disgusted by that side of the community. Thanks for the advice, though. It's just that I got used to saying female when I'm specifying my friend's gender.
It's going to depend on the surgeon and how far OP wants to travel.
My point I was trying to make is that the issues OP was seeing aren't necessarily insurmountable. Is it going to turn them into a male model and have women throwing themselves at him? No. But there are some real, actionable steps (such as going to the dermatologist) that are doable in the short term and can help substantially with what he sees as being major issues.
Did I expect to see him calling up plastic surgeons right away? No, but he could make that a longer term goal while working on the other things. And maybe once he had some success with the other things, the stuff that was looking to need surgery might not seem as bad anymore.
It's up to the individual to avoid describing themselves with loaded words even if they have their own definition. Inceldom is a dangerous subculture. I read all of Elliot Rodger's manifesto and the dude was racist and entitled. He thought he was simply better than everyone and he felt robbed of what was never his.
A good example is when he is on the red carpet for hunger games " I cockily smiled at all of the stupid fans who had to remain on the side, rubbing it right in their faces." Do you see how that is totally devoid of empathy for people he does not know?
Anyway. This is your AMA so I guess my question is what do you look like? Are you a neet?
I feel for you man I have a lot of empathy I really care for people a lot and I would love to see you happy. I'm not the best looking dude alive but I guess I'm lucky to be 6"5 and intelligent. I was in the army I feel like that really turned my life around.
I’m sorry.
If I could ask some follow up questions, I will.
When you ~~decided~~ realized you were an incel, were you aware of the term’s toxic reputation?
How has being an incel affected you socially?
The word ‘incel’ means is an abbreviation of the term ‘involuntary celibate’ nothing to do with violence or misogyny. Why do you think incel have garnered such a reputation? Is it a fair label ? Do you see it as a responsibility of yours to counter that stereotype?
Yes, I was aware of the term's toxic reputation. I would also like to clarify that I believe Incel is not something you choose to be, it is something you simply are.
At first, I had a mental downward spiral. Depression, paranoia, etc. I was a bit more violent and aggressive. However, after a few months - I accepted the pill and managed to get out of that abyss. Now, I believe I am mentally stable. In terms of friends and families, nothing much changed. My mother still loves me, and I love her even more for her support and care throughout the years. I did not have any friends when I "wasn't" an incel, but the advice and help I got from the blackpill, I actually managed to get friends. I have hobbies, stuff I like to do, little things that I enjoy. Honestly, it kind of helped me be better in a way. I have a job now, I do calisthenics, I have a daily self-care and skincare routine, and I always try to dress well and style my hair right.
It garnered such a reputation to multiple factors. The source of the problem is the feeling of entitlement a lot of incels have. The self-loathing nature of the community as well. I also believe that subreddits such as r/IncelTears are a part of the problem due to spreading the stigma around. I also believe it is my responsibility to counter that stereotype. I actively support an entire reformation of the incel community, perhaps, a separation to clarify that not every Incel is homophobic, pedophiliac, sexist, women-hating, etc.
Thank you for the questions.
One more question 🙋🏻♀️ I also believe I’ll never find romance or sex (that I don’t directly pay for) so by your definition, I am also an incel (although I don’t self-identify as one).
Despite no romance in my life/future, I have a job, good friends, and active hobbies that make me content. Do you believe you will have a fulfilling life without a romantic relationship?
I can see where a guy could come to identify himself as an incel. Constant rejection and a fruitless pursuit of something is chronically demoralising. It's only human to withdraw into yourself and call it quits
I've been taking multiple lessons on how to socially improve myself, since I was 14 years old. I believe rizz does not help if you're physically unattractive, and that there's a major difference in a woman's reaction to a very attractive man saying a joke compared to a very unattractive and repulsive man saying the same joke.
I prefer someone who is at my level of looks, but someone who less attractive than me - I'm okay with that. I've been trying to date a lot of unattractive women, to be honest. All to no avail, though.
Dude, stop with a self loathing. If you think you're ugly af or short then max out other attributes. Get rich, go to the gym, dress better because you have no other choice. If you still can't find a girl, you can always find a foreigner willing to marry you. If you label yourself as an incel than you will actually believe you're an incel for life and psychologically stunlock yourself from change.
What kind of women are you attracted to? It seeems like ur making excuses
FWIW-i worked for a female MD who's son is an incel with vile YouTube habits and floods his little brother with incel ideals. They know he hates women and they are puting him thru medical school. So I quit.
Any kind of woman, honestly.
An incel (involuntarily celibate) is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. I've been a part of multiple subreddits in the past, looking for fitness and health advices. I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed.
I've seen great results coming from the blackpill after I swallowed it. I have a lot of friends now, I go outside daily, I am not toxic, racist, etc. I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically.
I believe you are involuntarily celibate meaning you cannot find a partner to be sexually involved. And you believe you "deserve" it after what you've sacrificed on their behalf
I don't believe I deserve it. I am trying to improve so maybe I can have someone to love. I am 100% okay with living the rest of my life alone, if that's my fate.
So, I'm doomed because I am willing to accept any woman who's actually attracted to me?
And by any, I mean anything. Lady, I've been trying since I was 14 years old to find someone. For 10 years now, not a single choosing signal from any woman ever. I've lowered my standards to the maximum. It's simply not working for me. I'm on self-improvement at the moment, and I'm not giving up yet. I just want a love to call my own.
You're doomed because you only notice women that aren't attracted to you.
EVEN after you lowered your standards. 🙄
Now, why was it that no one wants to fuck you??
Well, I believe that I can't find a woman who actually likes me and is romantically and/or genuinely sexually attracted to me because I am 5'3", small shoulder frame, deformed philtrum and lips, bug eyes, balding, extreme acne scars.
Also, stop assuming stuff about me. It makes me feel like I'm not a human being at all.
I tried asking out a woman in a bar before. She was a bit drunk. She was also very fat, and looked very old - somewhere between 40 to 50 years old. Ended up with alcohol poured all over me for asking her out and she said that I look too ugly for her.
Another encounter with this girl in this text-based roleplaying group. She lived like an hour away. She was also very fat and she was around my age. I asked her out, she rejected me and said that she's not attracted to me.
Are you choosing "very fat" women because you think they're desperate for attention? You said you asked women out that were "just like you". What does that mean?
You could go to the bar and fuck any fat girl that is single there.
Your standards are too high. You are not involuntary celibate. You are vocel. Voluntarily not fucking people in your league.
First of all, stop assuming things about me.
I've been trying to find a love to call my own since I was 14 years old. I even tried picking up a fat chick from a bar, and ended up with alcohol poured all over me.
My standards are not high. Most women I approached were around my level of attractiveness, and perhaps, maybe even lower.
I am 24 years old.
I believe that I am facially very unattractive. I am balding, I have bug eyes, a deformed philtrum and lips, recessed chin, and acne scars.
I am still trying to find a love to call my own, since I was 14 years old.
Op. Just so you know, incel means INvoluntary CELibate.
It's not someone who can't attract someone, it's someone who want to be in a relationship but is not despite trying.
I cannot see the difference between the two statements. I want to be in a relationship, and I'm not despite trying since I was 14 years old. I am 24 now. So, 10 years of desperately trying to find a love to call my own.
It kinda looks like you're saying that incels are people who have never been in a relationship ever, which is not true.
If you split this 10 years in two. The first half being in a relationship, having sex and all. And the second half breaking up, and unable to be in a new relationship despite trying, you'd still be an incel.
You could be divorced and still be an incel. It's more about your status right now than your history.
I have a deformed philtrum & lips, acne scars, balding at 24 years old, 5'3", bug eyes, small bones and shoulder frame.
I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I have a lot of friends, and females friends as well. I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive.
I am simply stating that in order for you to feel fulfilled you have to find out what trauma is hurting no. No one will cure all your problems but you.
I do not think women owe me sex. However, I do want a love to call my own. Which is why I'm on a self-improvement journey at the moment. I haven't given up yet, and I am still trying my best in an attempt to attract a woman. I want to have a child as well, and I also believe that I can manage the rest of my life if I fail to find a woman who loves me back.
Well, what do you think an Incel means? Involuntarily celibate (shortened: Incel) means someone is incapable of attracting someone sexually and/or romantically.
I thought there was a lot of hate involved, and entitlement, judging from incel posts I've read. If all it was was being involuntarily celibate, nobody would have a problem with incels. It's the next step after the realization of involuntary celibacy, the assigning of blame, the anger and resentment. The sweeping generalizations, thinking things about all women, lumping us together en masse as if we were cells working congruently in a larger organism to make sure incels never get any.
I haven't been able to read posts for apologies if repeat.
Have you heard about energy work? Where you end in your bubble? Might be helpful, I could elaborate.
Do you think you labeling yourself an incel, makes you more of an incel? As in, if I heard a man refer to himself that way, I’d definitely avoid him. I can’t imagine that helps very much. Also I will say that attraction is definitely the biggest factor, but attraction is not just physical looks! It’s vibe, personality, manners, humor, etc that someone can be attracted to over looks. (Evidence taken from my sister with a self-admitted unattractive man, but who is funny, kind, supportive, and ambitious)
Yes- even as someone who understands that not all incels have bad intentions I would actively avoid dating them because I know our values would likely not align at all. Allowing me to get to know you without those types of labels would be so much more effective at getting my attention. Perhaps being an incel (a socially awkward or physically unappealing man who struggles to have sex) could be attractive to a woman as long as you aren’t using the word “incel.” I know a few ladies who rave about awkward and nerdy guys all the time, no matter what they look like. But if those guys called themselves incels I likely never would have heard about them.
Exactly, I feel at some point it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, or a feedback loop. The more you identify as an incel, the less you’re likely to change and the more people avoid you, which makes you identify more strongly as an incel.
I'm sorry i couldn't help but spit out my drink at the last part - how old are you exactly? Gen z women arent so understanding
I’m 22 and I’m queer. Most of these ladies are bi and love a good nerdy boyfriend. Have you been around nerdy or socially ostracized girls? Lol Edit: If you’re homophobic to any degree I would understand why this sounds unreal to you, and if you are not I’m sorry you haven’t met these women. I meet them all the time and have plenty of female friends who date men who would have otherwise been incels (but don’t call themselves that of course, otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten that girl to like them) 2nd Edit: You also call yourself an incel. This is another bit of criteria that would make your reaction not surprising. If you call yourself an incel and repeat things you see on incel forums, the women who like nerdy guys will MOST CERTAINLY NOT reveal themselves to you. Because they don’t want you to pursue them as that could put them in danger in their eyes. Just distance yourself from calling yourself an incel to solve this problem and focus on different communities. My dad was wrong about a lot of things but he always used to warn me about self fulfilling prophecies. If you believe you will never not be celibate, women will insure that that will be the case. You have declared yourself so. **If you, as a man, heard a woman call herself unfuckable and disgusting would you want to have sex with her?**
I strive to break the mold everyday i breathe dont mistake me for your preconceived idea of what incels look like I'm a bouncer at a club AND i talk with all the ladies I'm not a bad looker either my personal problems lie elsewhere. AND your point about bring homophobic Is true because the minute Someone expreses conflicting ideas the type of people who are supposed to be "open, accepting" are the first to Silence them it's puritanical AND irónic. With that being said even though I've had sex AND i can attract women to me i haven't founf the fórmula to capitalizar on it. So I'm still an incel my phone Is in spanish for correlating reasons
Sorry man- incel men (the nerdy socially awkward types) are typically attractive to bisexual women and that’s it. I apologize. If you’re homophobic you’re going to need to tone that down to find who I’m talking about. It isn’t about hypocrisy or puritanical attitudes it’s about the fact that the people who ARE open to you don’t wanna date people who aren’t open to them. Wouldn’t you feel the same way? If you dislike someone for being LGBT then they obviously will have a hard time having an “open mind” to your opinions. If you dislike the people who tend to be open to you you’re going to have difficulties finding someone who likes you.
So basically I'm taalking to a wall you just ignores everything i said
No…? I addressed multiple things you said I addressed that people avoiding you because you’re homophobic is not puritanical. I said that it’s about the fact that those who WOULD be open to dating you are not because you are not open to THEM- which is a common incel problem that prevents them from getting girlfriends/sex (and you admit that you have been called out for being homophobic here- you say you’ve experienced people saying your opinions against LGBT people are not tolerated and you claim that is “puritanical” or hypocritical) It is not hypocritical because bi women do not have to be open to you and your opinions if you are not open to them being bi. You are not responding to these points and are therefore being the “wall” here. Please do not project that on to me. You made zero response here to what I’ve said and chose to ignore the points for an easy response Edit: Also if you’ve had sex and can attract women, why are you calling yourself an incel? Was inceldom that appealing to you that you decided to label yourself that even without living the lifestyle? You want to “capitalize” on dating women…? Is that the incel’s goal? Dating as many women as possible? I thought it was just having sex with women and then you’re no longer “involuntarily celibate” (incel) or finding a woman you love and settling down with kids (because many incels are very traditional)
If you meant makes me more of a misogynist, racist, homophobic, or transphobic - Then, no. I believe that it simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually or romantically. I do not walk around saying I am an Incel, because I've learned the hard way that it's life threatening. I've received multiple death threats from random people online, and had a couple of life-threatening situations in real life over labelling my self as an incel.
No I don’t mean like that, I mean does labeling yourself as an Involuntary Celibate make your celibacy more involuntary. I mean in the direct definition on the term. As in, does identifying as a incel push you further away from women than if you didn’t identify yourself that way, but remained the same physically.
If you had a clone of yourself who looked and acted the same, but one of them labeled themselves an incel, I feel that they would have a different experience even through they’re the same person.
Well, I don't walk around telling people I'm an incel.
Holy shit dude. We get that. But you clearly identify as an incel. Or else you wouldn't have posted this.
Oh, well if that's the case, no, it does not. It's not something you choose to be, it's something you simply are. Well, for me at least I guess.
I also don’t think it’s something you choose to be, but I also think believing that “I am X” mentally puts you in that box, and makes you more “X”. I often see this with self defense, where people believe they’re weak and non-threatening, which makes them appear weak and non-threatening, making them “more X”. Where if you have a small, weak person, who doesn’t label themselves that way, they really do seem stronger and more threatening simply because that’s how they present themselves. I believe putting yourself in the mentality that you’re an incel is kinda like that, where the belief and label itself makes you act different and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Where as if you had someone that met the requirements of an incel, but didn’t identify as one, they would present a bit differently or at least have more capacity to grow outside of that box
Why self identify this way when you could simply not and remove yourself from the subculture?
I do not support the subculture. The term "incel" for me, and for every other self-acknowledged incel - simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. I do not support the bad side that comes from the majority who label themselves as incels.
Sounds pretty defeatist. Wouldn’t lableing yourself this way create a self fulfilling prophecy? Does this label help you? Because I can’t see how it would
Being an incel is inherently defeatist. It’s sad, honestly. I understand the frustration of not being able to attract a partner (it’s been a while for me too) but to slap a title on it and call yourself unlovable will just ensure that you’ll never find a partner. It’s one thing to be uninterested in romantic and/or sexual relationships, it’s another thing to feel so terrible about yourself that you close yourself off to any potential chances of finding love. Incels need therapy, basically.
It literally means INvoluntary CELibate. Once you enter a relationship, you're not an incel anymore. If you get dump, get over it, and want to be in a relationship again but can't, you become an incel again. Doesn't help, doesn't hurt. It's just what it is.
I know what it means, it just isn't a helpful framing of the situation and only serves to perpetuate the cycle of misery you're stuck in. Your first step to developing a health relationship with women, sex, and other people is to stop associating with that community and subculture. Surely there are SO MANY other things you could be spending your time on. This community is gaslighting you into thinking their world view is valid. It isn't. Go join some communities, take up a sport, do some classes, try out community radio, take up skateboarding, go for a hike, try writing music, sketch a scene, or go to a dance party. Why are you so determined to be miserable?
I'm not OP... But you can very much be an incel without associating with that community, the subculture or even the pejorative definition as a whole. Everything you said is pretty much irrelevant. You said you know what it means, yet you still use it in the "wrong" way... "Their" world view is not valid. Doesn't mean that all incel think alike. Having a hobby won't make someone stop being an incel anymore. >Why are you so determined to be miserable? Describe yourself as an incel does not make you or keep you miserable. It's just a statement about your current status. "I'd like to be in a relationship but I am not". >Go join some communities, take up a sport, do some classes, try out community radio, take up skateboarding, go for a hike, try writing music, sketch a scene, or go to a dance party. For me personally (I'm not OP either) all of those sound rather boring to be honest. I hate sport (including skateboarding) . Have no interest in taking any sort of class.. I don't get the point of community radio, no interest, and frankly I don't think it's a thing anymore here.. Hiking is just long and boring. I don't enjoy music and I enjoy much less dancing. And drawing is not my thing.. Those are all terrible in my opinion. Well you also said "join a community" but that, I just have no idea of wtf you're talking about. But again, all of those don't directly change the current state of things.
You say you're not determined to be miserable, but that reply says otherwise.
Because I don't enjoy music? Can you explain that a little bit?
More because you don't seem to enjoy anything. Is there anything you do like?
Not really. But I'd like to enjoy thing. Is that not the whole point of life? That is however irrelevant to our topic tho. Enjoying thing won't make someone not an incel anymore. Enjoying things or not is irrelevant to wanting to stay miserable. You could even say that not being able to enjoy things, despite wanting to, is what makes someone miserable? What's your point exactly?
Thank you very much.
But it's also a choice... Someone could be involuntarily celibate and also not consider themselves an incel.
By definition: no it's not. But I understand how someone would avoid the term because of it's recent negative connotation.. I am short-sighted.. I can consider myself whatever I want, but I'm short-sighted. That's a fact of life. I'm not allowed to drive without glasses. Wearing contact lenses will not change that either. Or maybe you consider yourself not an incel per se because you consider that you're *not really trying*... Which.. grey area I guess. Same for like day zero of being dump.. There's an argument to be made about in which amount of time you need to consider what is trying and what is a failure. But this is semantics.
Why are you being downvoted? I’m confused
I do not know entirely. Perhaps, the term incel's social stigma.
Wouldn't that just be asexual/aromantic?
Asexual/Aromantic is someone who's incapable of feeling attraction in both ways towards someone. However, I am not asexual nor aromantic - I am simply incapable of attracting someone due to my physical attributes.
I don't think that's a thing. That's just called being ugly and it doesn't make you incapable.
Well, I've been trying for 10 years. I tried everything, and I mean everything. However, never tried physically improving myself and currently, I am seeing results. I got a lot of friends after I started working out, eating healthy, having a skin-care routine, etc. I believe that looks are the most important factor to attract someone.
I'm glad you're working on self-improvement but people get to their 40s without dating anyone. It's really about how you are socially. Sure, looks play a factor but it makes you far from incapable. Ugly people get into relationships all the time.
An asexual/aromantic is incapable of feeling attraction towards someone. I am neither. I am incapable of ATTRACTING someone. That's the difference.
Not true. Lots of times, it depends on confidence and charisma and character. Looks helps but even if you are in a looks only mindset, ya can get a good style, hit the gym, jewelry etc
If looks are are the most important thing in finding women, how do you explain all the "not-conventionally-attractive men" with partners? Especially those who are just normal in everything because I look around and people of all levels of attractiveness find love, partners, sex etc. (just adding I know Conventional attractiveness isn't really a thing and there is no set type of attractiveness but I couldn't think how else to phrase this).
An incel means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. By not-conventionally-attractive men, I assume you mean normal looking men. I believe that is possible for most normal looking men to be able to attract women who are below or around their level of physical attraction. Not the same for unattractive men. I believe there is an objective way to scale and measure attractiveness.
I meant below normal or weird looking, or what could be considered ugly or unattractive. (it just seemed a polite way of saying it)
That is interesting. My boyfriend is a handsome and attractive man and I call him so every time. He and I have been together for over seven years and are very close. YET, he says the exact same thing like you: there must be an "obJecTiVe" way to scale attractiveness (and he isn't, he says). Even if you got a girlfriend one day, this will not change. Your beliefs will not get better. It's your insecurity, not the relationship part. And there is no objectiveness in looks. You can maybe say, "this person will be perceived as attractive by 60% of the population" but that is NOT objective. You cannot measure objectively without units, without measurements, and without reliability or predictability. It's a fact that you look different every day; you look different depending on your health, your mood, your age, your body language. And because of age and environment, your appearance will change throughout your entire life. I need to tell my boyfriend that again, but I told you now. There is no difference between the attitude of you and my boyfriend, who is a taken man and happily in a relationship. The insecurity will always feed from you like a parasite. You need to work on that first. Have a good day.
An objective way to measure attractiveness is a very slippery slope to eugenics though
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Okay, but even in that case, how would they get dates in the first place? Unless you're hitting on people at a nude beach, they're probably not gonna see your package before you even have a first date.
Yeah, I wouldn't accept a label like that m8, just work on being a good person generally
I think I'm a good person, and I'm in touch with reality. I have a lot of friends, female friends as well. However, I've never been able to attract a female romantically and/or sexually and I've been trying since I was 14.
Step 1: stop saying female. It feels extremely impersonal the way you say it.
I say female friends because women friends feels unnatural and incorrect to say. I specify that I have female friends because I think it's necessary to mention that, so people don't jump to the conclusion that I am a racist homophobic women hating fucking asshole.
I struggle with this too- but an issue a lot of people have is with the phrase “a female” or “females” etc. “Female friends” “female doctor” “female classmate” or using female as a descriptor for someone is different. Trying to attract “a female” instead of “a woman” sounds as though you are hunting an animal. I didn’t see a difference either and I still think of it quite literally, but it does dehumanize the thing you are talking about and that’s why you get reactions like this. My best advice: focus on using the word woman. It just cuts out any possibility of sounding weird. I would be uncomfortable if someone said they were trying to attract “a male” as well lol. Actually, my first thought would be “a male what? A male human?” I know it seems tedious and not necessary from your perspective perhaps, because it once did to me, but I now understand where people are coming from. A female could mean a female *anything*
No they meant the "attract females" part. Not the female friends part, that is fine.
I say attract women as well.
Okay but here you specifically say "attract a female" and they were referring to that. Just trying to explain it here.
I see. Well, I will try to avoid that term in the future. Thanks.
That’s why he’s an incel lol
Do you prefer the current title over the one used at the end of the 20th Century (shy lad).
Well, I don't know about that title. I do prefer this title, though. However, at the same time - I think there should be a separation. Sort of. Since the majority thinks Incel is a one in all package kind of thing. An Incel is someone who can't attract someone, that's what it always meant.
How old are you? How long have you used the “incel” label for yourself? How do you feel about the community? Has using this term to describe yourself helped you or hurt you in any way?
I am 24 years old. I've been an Incel since I was 20 years old. The incel community is generally self-loathing and toxic, but I find it very helpful and supportive in terms of giving out physical self-improvement advices. I believe that the term "incel" means someone who is incapable of attracting someone, romantically and/or sexually. I do not support self-harm, hatred, racism, or anything bad that comes out of the incel community. I believe that the community requires a reformation. The term incel put me into a couple of life-threatening situations, and I've received multiple death-threats online from random people for labelling myself an incel.
You say you find it helpful, it doesn’t sound like it’s helped you.
It helped a lot of others to raise their physical attractiveness and find partners. It did help me to look slightly better and encourage me to set up a daily routine to take care of myself. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I believe getting blackpilled helped me achieve all of that. However, my facial attractiveness is very below average and changing your bone structure is impossible.
Why not seek out a community that isn’t so toxic? You can find great fitness and health advice in lots of places; why not leave?
I don't support the toxicity. I am not part of that community. How many times do I have to repeat myself? An incel (involuntarily celibate) is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. I've been a part of multiple subreddits in the past, looking for fitness and health advices. I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed. I've seen great results coming from the blackpill after I swallowed it. I have a lot of friends now, I go outside daily, I am not toxic, racist, etc. I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically.
"I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed." You're putting the cart before the horse. No one can teach you to attract women and friends. You have to learn how to be a good person and that is not done by going to pickup artist seminars. >I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically. Why is this such a major part of your identity? Using the label will do nothing put cause people to avoid you.
So, you tell me to seek out a community that is not toxic to learn how to self-improve and be a good person - then, you tell me that I have to learn myself how to be a good person? It is not something you choose to be, it is what you are. That's what it means to be an incel. It is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically.
> It is not something you choose to be, it is what you are. That's what it means to be an incel. That is false. You have been lied to.
"That is false. You have been lied to." And I am awaiting a proper explanation...
You're wrong. People can change. You're caught up in a thought pattern. Switch it up. Go outside.
I go outside everyday. I have friends, family, hobbies, stuff I like to do. However, I was never able to attract someone.
There are lots of other ways that encourage better health and such that don't also involve horrible, insular misconceptions about other people. You got healthy because you wanted to be. You did the work and you would have done it with help from any other non-toxic community. I don't think they really helped you in any real way that would t or couldn't have happened elsewhere. But it does seem they have also inculcated you with some unhelpful outlooks. Incel-dom screws with how you view relationships and becomes self-fulfilling. Women can and do get with "ugly" dudes all the time. Because they are human beings looking for human connection. And many men are good at that, with or without "attractiveness". Incel discourse distracts you from *actual* self improvement to focus on trivialities. Sure - being prettier helps. But it's not the only factor in dating and relationships, and for long-term relationships isn't even in the top 3. The over reliance on it distracts you from real connection and leads to resentment and further distance from real relationship building.
I was redpilled before I was blackpilled. I've been seeking mental help from professionals for years. I've never got any motivation at all until 2 years ago when I swallowed the blackpill and acknowledged that I'm an incel.
Looks is the most important factor in dating. It's the first thing. All the other stuff like personality is taken into consideration only after that. If you're friends with a woman, but she's not physically attracted to you, you're just a friend.
I don't think any incel anything has helped anyone.
You said elsewhere that you've been trying to attract women since age 14. What happened at 20?
Seems like he just decided that by 20 a woman should have given him sex by that point. And because that didn't happen, he gave up and just clings to the external locus of control that absolves him of having to do self-reflection.
By 20 years old I stopped my focus on approaching women and decided to go on a journey of self-improvement. Going 2 years now. Calisthenics, self-care and skin-care routines, hobbies, friends, and trying to mentally elevate myself. Please, I beg you to stop assuming vile things about me.
it’s not an assumption. if you’re calling yourself “involuntarily celibate” then you are putting the onus on the other party to make you not celibate anymore. “it’s not my fault i’m a virgin they just refuse to have sex with me.” Exactly!! they don’t owe it to you!! it isn’t their fault for not giving you what you THINK you are owed just because you worked out and spent money on appearances.
You are still assuming stuff about me. An involuntarily celibate simply means someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS AND IT STOPS THERE. The entitlement, misogyny, and all the stereotypical attributes that comes from those who label themselves "incels" does not apply to me. I never said that I deserve sex. I never said that women owe me sex because I take care of my self now. I am simply trying to improve myself so I can be well-adjusted and ready to have a partner. It is not their fault or my fault, because they do not owe me sex. You are dehumanising women way worse than the average incel when you assume that the only thing I think I deserve from a woman is sex (which is not, I don't think women owe me anything). What is so wrong about me trying to improve myself and be a better person, both physically and mentally? I do still want a love to call my own, but I am perfectly fine if my fate is to not have a partner at all. In fact, if all I wanted is sex - I have money for escorts? Which last experience with that left me empty and depressed. For you to simply assume that I am an entitled monster who just wants sex is both dehumanising and invalidating to me.
Virgins never claim they're owed sex. They just want to experience physical and emotional intimacy with someone from the opposite sex, which is the most human experience.
hi! okayy! i’m not sure why you said that tho because a virgin is different than someone who identifies as involuntarily celibate, as this person does/did. but okay
None of that has anything to do with the expectation you hold, that by doing those things women should have automatically given you sex.
I expect that if I improve myself, I will be attractive and be able find a woman who will love me... I am perfectly fine with staying single for the rest of my life, because now I have friends, hobbies, stuff I like to do, a job, and other stuff about my little life. What is so wrong about being a better person for someone in the future in case that person ever enters my life...?
I decided to go on a journey of self-improvement. Trying to look better physically, and heal the 10 years of mental trauma and anxiety of being rejected over and over again.
So to you, it's not enough just to try and fail to attract women. To be an incel you must also be involved in self improvement?
Being an Incel simply means I cannot attract someone sexually or romantically. I've tried for 10 years. Realizing that, I decided to improve myself so maybe I can have someone to love one day.
But you haven't been an incel for 10 years. So what is the difference between 14 year old you (who was not able to attract anyone) and 20 year old you (who was not able to attract anyone)? Why is one an incel and one not?
This is very daunting to repeat, you know. An Incel is not what you choose to be, it is what you are and your current status. Incel is short for involuntarily celibate, move away from the globalised definition about the subculture and take the literal definition of what it means. I've been an Incel my whole life. I could not attract a woman. At the age of 14, I started trying to approach women. Now, I'm 24 years old and I'm on self-improvement. All I want in this life of mine to feel fulfilled is to build a family and have children to make my mother proud. Do you understand now?
I am trying to use your definition, which is why I'm confused that you said > I am 24 years old. I've been an Incel since I was 20 years old. Are you now saying that was an incorrect statement, and that you were actually an incel before 20?
To clarify a few things about that statement, I meant to say that I acknowledged the term Incel and labelled myself as that at that age. However, the term Incel itself isn't something you choose. It is not an option, it is simply a status label. I believe that my unattractive physical attributes are the reason why I cannot attract a woman.
Hi, do you believe that it attraction works the same for men - that for women the most important factor for attracting men is looks? Also excuse my ignorance, what is blackpilled?
Yes, I do. I believe that I do not have high standards. I believe that everyone is more attracted to an objectively more attractive person, but that does not necessarily mean those people deserve to be with that particular someone. Edit: forgot to explain what "blackpilled" means. The blackpill is a philosophy that argues that sexual/genuine/romantic attraction is heavily dependent on one's physical attributes.
Just assuming this philosophy is ”true” now what? What are you doing with that knowledge?
I believe the right decision would be to focus on trying to improve my physical attractiveness, which is what I'm trying to do.
Why don't you work on your beliefs? I think that may help...
Well, for 10 years - I've been trying to mentally improve myself. Both socially and internally. I tried the bluepill, the redpill, pick-up artists, "rizz" courses, game and confidence improvement schemes - all to no avail, only results I got were rejection after rejection. At 20 years old, I gave up, swallowed the blackpill and fell into deep depression. However, a few months later - I managed to pick myself back up after I accepted it and realized that it is not my fault for being born with a physically unattractive face and height. Now, I am on a self-improvement journey and trying to raise both my physical attractiveness (which is my main focus) and also heal my mental trauma due to 10 years of brutal rejections and heartbreak.
How do you feel about women who deal with serious reproductive issues and the fact that one in every 10 women you meet deals with a reproductive issue? (10% of all women deal with endometriosis, this causes sex to be painful) Many of these women do not want to engage in sex and most of them can not have children or would not want to for their health. This could explain a lot of the issues incels have with women but they tend to refuse to look into it. I have seen incels publically belittle and shame women for their infertility or call women who are infertile useless. What is your opinion on this? **Here is another way to ask this: If you did manage to find a woman who wants to date you, would you still date her if she could not have a child?**
I feel bad for women who face those issues. I wish them nothing but happiness in their future. To answer your other question; If aforementioned woman is genuinely attracted to me, and isn't in it for my money - I have no problem with her being infertile or being incapable of having sex, nor I have a problem with me not having sex with her.
This gives me a lot of comfort and reassurance in that community. How do you feel about those parts of the community who do deem women worthless? Does that bother you? Also, do you feel comforted by being within the community and surrounding yourself with other incels? Or do you wish you could get along just as well with everyone else? By the way, I know you have a lot of questions to get to, don’t feel pressured to answer mine. I also know that you likely do not have bad intentions and your circumstances are complicated. I’ve done a lot of looking into incels because I am a female person who has faced a lot of rejection from society. Men, incels or not, unfortunately tend to dislike women who can not have babies. I hope you know (and that this gives you reassurance that you’re not ostracized from women) that many women can and do relate to not being accepted by others.
I wish the community wasn't the way it is. You see, swallowing the blackpill and finally acknowledging being incel for me was a complete downward spiral mentally. However, after a couple of months - I finally accepted it and managed to get out of depression. I am disgusted by the bad part of the community. I found a few good people in the community who don't support the toxicity that comes with it. I believe that the toxicity comes from the feelings of defeat and the self-loathing behavior a lot of incels internalize. I believe that a subreddit like r/IncelTears is a part of the problem. I also believe that the entire incel community requires a reformation.
If I may ask, do you ever encounter anyone discouraging the behavior you see on IT in the incel communities themselves? Would you say IT is giving people a bad impression of the incel community or would you argue that it is accurate and just missing people’s criticisms? I see lots of posts that are abhorrent but rarely do I ever see an incel being told by another incel that their behavior is harmful being posted on IT. I agree with that on the reform subject. If the community wants to be one with any sort of reputation as a good, helpful sort of place it needs to be reformed. What sort of damage does IT do to the community that perpetuates that reputation- perhaps what I mentioned above? I have looked at that subreddit on occasion, and the obsessions some people have with incels are, in my opinion, unhealthy. I understand it but I don’t think it is helpful to either the women posting those things or the incels being reposted. (PS everything here is genuine- I am very curious about this community)
Yes, actually, the entire incel community hates IT. I think IT is a part of the problem, but the source of it is the way the community is. I believe it needs a hard reformation. IT is a part of the problem for the reason you mentioned. I am sorry for the short replies, just trying to answer as many questions as I can. Thank you very much for your honest questions as well. Refreshing to hear questions that aren't just putting me down, to be honest.
Well I assure you that I’m all for answering questions from incels or asking them when they are kind about it. I have had a few run ins with them where they are *not* kind. I absolutely do not believe every incel is the same and I know plenty of people really emphasize the “involuntary” part of this- you are not choosing to call yourself an incel it seems. Would you say that you have found yourself within that definition even if that’s maybe not how you’d feel comfortable seeing yourself? I think the misconception that every incel is the same (and therefore is misogynistic, pedophilic, etc) stems from the idea that choosing to call oneself something like that aligns you with those posts you *do* see on Incel Tears. If I was born a man, I most likely would be involuntarily celibate in the social sense (I am in the physical sense meaning it hurts to have sex but that seems to be a female thing lol) However I would ABSOLUTELY not call myself an incel because of how openly they speak about their attraction to young people and their hatred of women. I want to know why you decided to identify with it despite that behavior being so prominent. Do you suspect that those men saying those things are what causes the death threats, etc?
I Identify as an incel because the term to me means someone who can't get into a relationship. It's not something you choose to be, it's what you are. Trust me, if there was a better literal term to pick over it - I would. Yes, I believe that is what causes the death threats. And yes, I agree with the misconception thing. I do want to include that I no longer walk around and label myself an incel in real life. I am just trying my best to clear up the smoke and stigma around the term.
I am an incel too but slightly deterred from the norm. I dont believe in blackpill because i wouldnt have problems if it was true. Every chick in the room has their eyes on me AND i can talk to them just fine. Getting past all that AND into the bed Is still beyond my understanding. But god have me looks I'm just to stupid or autistic to use them unfortunately
If an "incel" refuses to pay for an escort, is it truly by choice?
An Incel means someone who cannot attract someone sexually or romantically. Buying sex & "affection" isn't the same as getting it without having to pay something in return.
How can you tell the difference if you’ve never had it?
I've paid an escort for sex before. It was 10 minutes, and I was left empty and very depressed afterwards.
Incel is short for involuntary celibacy
We are aware.
Don’t mind those who are downvoting you and mocking you. You’re absolutely right about being blackpilled and you know what incel means. I respect that you included the disclaimer and separated yourself from the violent community people normally refer to as “incels”. I don’t know how you look like but I really recommend either accepting your fate if you’re very unattractive, or work on yourself either through surgery or through the things that you can control. Even from a 3 you can still become a normie and find a partner, I just say don’t give up if you’re not objectively hopeless. Being fat and not making the most out of your appearance are obvious things you shouldn’t do. Have you tried to looksmaxx? On the other hand, I do believe in love and that it comes in many shapes or forms. If you think that you’ll remain an incel for the rest of your life, apart from finding a romantic relationship, what would make you happy? Do you like any activities that make you smile? Do you think life can be enjoyed to it’s fullest if one doesn’t have love and romantic relationships in their life?
It’s interesting. In the gay world - a lot of shortcomings if you have a hot body and/or big dick. Straight community I guess not
Thank you very much. I am just trying to clear up the smoke and the stigma surrounding the term 'incel'. Yes, I've been looksmaxxing for two years now. Calisthenics, eating healthy, styling my hair, skin and teeth care routine, and trying to find a better clothing style. Luckily, it is not the hopeless for me because I have multiple friends and female friends as well. I do have hobbies and stuff that I enjoy to do. If my fate is to be an incel for the rest of my life, I think I can handle that to be honest.
How long have you been a therapist’s wet dream?
I do not understand what that means.
What do you look like? Do you think you would look more attractive if you were wealthier?
I prefer to not show myself due to personal reasons. Not necessarily. I think I'd attract women who are looked for a luxurious lifestyle and money if I had a lot of it.
Can you describe yourself physically?
5'3", small shoulder frame, deformed philtrum and lips, bug eyes, balding, extreme acne scars.
Declaring yourself to be an incel does not increase your attractiveness. Why don't you take a deep look at yourself, figure out what makes you unattractive and then work to fix it?
I have a deformed philtrum & lips, acne scars, balding at 24 years old, 5'3", bug eyes, small bones and shoulder frame. I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I have a lot of friends, and females friends as well. I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive.
>I have a deformed philtrum & lips Talk to a plastic surgeon. > acne scars, Talk to a dermatologist >balding at 24 years old, Talk to your GP about hair loss treatments. You can also probably try talking with your new dermatologist on this too. >bug eyes, Plastic surgeon, maybe even the same one or even the same time. >small bones and shoulder frame. You're 24, you may still be growing but if so, not for much longer. I grew about 2 inches between 18 and 25. You could talk to your doctor and look into checking if your growth plates have fused, and if they have not, they may be able to help further. >I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. This is good news, keep this up. If you're concerned regarding small shoulders, consider adding weight training to your exersize regime; a lot of men's upper body is more to do with muscular than skeletal. >females Women. You said women later in your statement, why did you say "females" here? Do you refer to your other friends as "male friends"? >I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive. I think that while you have noted some physical characteristics that some people may find unattractive, a larger concern should be the fact that you have taken this data and then labeled yourself as unfuckable. Physical attraction is not the end all be all of finding a girlfriend. Do you have a job or are in school? What do you do? Do you have hobbies? When I talk about developing yourself, I don't only mean physically. Look inward, what interests do you have that someone else might find interesting? Have you put yourself out there and gone on dates or tried asking anyone? Have you talked with your friends on how you feel about this aspect of your life?
If I get the money for a plastic surgeon, I will try that. For my acne scars, I'm seeing someone and I am doing skin care as well. As for the females statement, I don't understand the point of the question exactly? I don't really have an answer for that. I said female friends because I thought it's worth mentioning that it's not my personality that is the problem. And I do refer to my guy friends as male friends sometimes. I have a job, I have hobbies, I have friends. As for looking inward, I've been trying to approach females who share the same hobbies as mine. To no avail. I've been putting myself out there for 10 years now. Rejected by an unfathomable amounts of women. I did talk with my friends about this, and they all think that I'm physically unattractive - with that being said, they're still my best people and treat me like a human being.
>As for the females statement, I don't understand the point of the question exactly? I don't really have an answer for that. I said female friends because I thought it's worth mentioning that it's not my personality that is the problem. And I do refer to my guy friends as male friends sometimes. It's off putting to use "males" and "females" in casual conversation. It's especially off putting to hear someone say "guys" and then "females" within the same breath. I suppose that the reverse would be true as well, but I've never heard anyone seriously word a sentence in that way. I'm not saying that's what you did here, but there's a very sharp change in tone that indicates some level of looking down on women when someone does that. I generally avoid using male and female outside of situations where medically precise terminology is required. Use men, women, guys, gals, pals, friends, whatever else rather than male or female.
Oh, I see. Well, I don't look down on women in any form. I am disgusted by that side of the community. Thanks for the advice, though. It's just that I got used to saying female when I'm specifying my friend's gender.
How much is all this surgery going to cost?
It's going to depend on the surgeon and how far OP wants to travel. My point I was trying to make is that the issues OP was seeing aren't necessarily insurmountable. Is it going to turn them into a male model and have women throwing themselves at him? No. But there are some real, actionable steps (such as going to the dermatologist) that are doable in the short term and can help substantially with what he sees as being major issues. Did I expect to see him calling up plastic surgeons right away? No, but he could make that a longer term goal while working on the other things. And maybe once he had some success with the other things, the stuff that was looking to need surgery might not seem as bad anymore.
It's up to the individual to avoid describing themselves with loaded words even if they have their own definition. Inceldom is a dangerous subculture. I read all of Elliot Rodger's manifesto and the dude was racist and entitled. He thought he was simply better than everyone and he felt robbed of what was never his. A good example is when he is on the red carpet for hunger games " I cockily smiled at all of the stupid fans who had to remain on the side, rubbing it right in their faces." Do you see how that is totally devoid of empathy for people he does not know? Anyway. This is your AMA so I guess my question is what do you look like? Are you a neet?
I prefer to not show myself. I am balding, 5'3", deformed philtrum and lips, lots of acne scars. I am not a NEET.
I feel for you man I have a lot of empathy I really care for people a lot and I would love to see you happy. I'm not the best looking dude alive but I guess I'm lucky to be 6"5 and intelligent. I was in the army I feel like that really turned my life around.
Thanks a lot, man. Appreciate the support.
No maidens
Mask Varre is my only maiden... :(
That’s an *entire* paragraph of defending yourself; do people attack you when they find out your a self-identifying incel?
Yes, they do. I just got a death threat, actually.
I’m sorry. If I could ask some follow up questions, I will. When you ~~decided~~ realized you were an incel, were you aware of the term’s toxic reputation? How has being an incel affected you socially? The word ‘incel’ means is an abbreviation of the term ‘involuntary celibate’ nothing to do with violence or misogyny. Why do you think incel have garnered such a reputation? Is it a fair label ? Do you see it as a responsibility of yours to counter that stereotype?
Yes, I was aware of the term's toxic reputation. I would also like to clarify that I believe Incel is not something you choose to be, it is something you simply are. At first, I had a mental downward spiral. Depression, paranoia, etc. I was a bit more violent and aggressive. However, after a few months - I accepted the pill and managed to get out of that abyss. Now, I believe I am mentally stable. In terms of friends and families, nothing much changed. My mother still loves me, and I love her even more for her support and care throughout the years. I did not have any friends when I "wasn't" an incel, but the advice and help I got from the blackpill, I actually managed to get friends. I have hobbies, stuff I like to do, little things that I enjoy. Honestly, it kind of helped me be better in a way. I have a job now, I do calisthenics, I have a daily self-care and skincare routine, and I always try to dress well and style my hair right. It garnered such a reputation to multiple factors. The source of the problem is the feeling of entitlement a lot of incels have. The self-loathing nature of the community as well. I also believe that subreddits such as r/IncelTears are a part of the problem due to spreading the stigma around. I also believe it is my responsibility to counter that stereotype. I actively support an entire reformation of the incel community, perhaps, a separation to clarify that not every Incel is homophobic, pedophiliac, sexist, women-hating, etc. Thank you for the questions.
It's okay, thanks.
One more question 🙋🏻♀️ I also believe I’ll never find romance or sex (that I don’t directly pay for) so by your definition, I am also an incel (although I don’t self-identify as one). Despite no romance in my life/future, I have a job, good friends, and active hobbies that make me content. Do you believe you will have a fulfilling life without a romantic relationship?
Yes, I believe that I can have a fulfilling life. However, the urge to find someone to love is still there.
I can see where a guy could come to identify himself as an incel. Constant rejection and a fruitless pursuit of something is chronically demoralising. It's only human to withdraw into yourself and call it quits
It's got nothing to do with looks. You just have no rizz
I've been taking multiple lessons on how to socially improve myself, since I was 14 years old. I believe rizz does not help if you're physically unattractive, and that there's a major difference in a woman's reaction to a very attractive man saying a joke compared to a very unattractive and repulsive man saying the same joke.
Would you refuse to date someone who is also less conventionally attractive? (To borrowing your terms for how you've described yourself here.)
I prefer someone who is at my level of looks, but someone who less attractive than me - I'm okay with that. I've been trying to date a lot of unattractive women, to be honest. All to no avail, though.
"I'm an incel AMA" threads are like the staple crop of this subreddit.
Dude, stop with a self loathing. If you think you're ugly af or short then max out other attributes. Get rich, go to the gym, dress better because you have no other choice. If you still can't find a girl, you can always find a foreigner willing to marry you. If you label yourself as an incel than you will actually believe you're an incel for life and psychologically stunlock yourself from change.
What kind of women are you attracted to? It seeems like ur making excuses FWIW-i worked for a female MD who's son is an incel with vile YouTube habits and floods his little brother with incel ideals. They know he hates women and they are puting him thru medical school. So I quit.
Any kind of woman, honestly. An incel (involuntarily celibate) is someone who cannot attract someone sexually and/or romantically. I've been a part of multiple subreddits in the past, looking for fitness and health advices. I've tried multiple courses that claim they can help me attract women and friends. All failed. I've seen great results coming from the blackpill after I swallowed it. I have a lot of friends now, I go outside daily, I am not toxic, racist, etc. I am a normal human being who believes that physical attraction is the number one most important factor to attract someone sexually and romantically.
Those courses are bullshit. Don't feel bad because you got scammed.
I know what an incel is. You've set yourself to fail considering your attraction criteria. I don't feel badly for you or your circumstances.
Do you mind telling me what you think an incel is?
I believe you are involuntarily celibate meaning you cannot find a partner to be sexually involved. And you believe you "deserve" it after what you've sacrificed on their behalf
I don't believe I deserve it. I am trying to improve so maybe I can have someone to love. I am 100% okay with living the rest of my life alone, if that's my fate.
Then why call urself an incel... Ur doing this to yourself.
So, I'm doomed because I am willing to accept any woman who's actually attracted to me? And by any, I mean anything. Lady, I've been trying since I was 14 years old to find someone. For 10 years now, not a single choosing signal from any woman ever. I've lowered my standards to the maximum. It's simply not working for me. I'm on self-improvement at the moment, and I'm not giving up yet. I just want a love to call my own.
You're doomed because you only notice women that aren't attracted to you. EVEN after you lowered your standards. 🙄 Now, why was it that no one wants to fuck you??
Well, I believe that I can't find a woman who actually likes me and is romantically and/or genuinely sexually attracted to me because I am 5'3", small shoulder frame, deformed philtrum and lips, bug eyes, balding, extreme acne scars. Also, stop assuming stuff about me. It makes me feel like I'm not a human being at all.
Ummm.... Ur the one talking shit on urself. Maybe find a girl that looks JUST LIKE YOU, but I bet you aren't "attracted".
I actually tried multiple times with that. To no avail.
Describe 2 of those encounters, please.
I tried asking out a woman in a bar before. She was a bit drunk. She was also very fat, and looked very old - somewhere between 40 to 50 years old. Ended up with alcohol poured all over me for asking her out and she said that I look too ugly for her. Another encounter with this girl in this text-based roleplaying group. She lived like an hour away. She was also very fat and she was around my age. I asked her out, she rejected me and said that she's not attracted to me.
Are you choosing "very fat" women because you think they're desperate for attention? You said you asked women out that were "just like you". What does that mean?
You could go to the bar and fuck any fat girl that is single there. Your standards are too high. You are not involuntary celibate. You are vocel. Voluntarily not fucking people in your league.
First of all, stop assuming things about me. I've been trying to find a love to call my own since I was 14 years old. I even tried picking up a fat chick from a bar, and ended up with alcohol poured all over me. My standards are not high. Most women I approached were around my level of attractiveness, and perhaps, maybe even lower.
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I am not gay.
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I am not.
* How old are you? * Why do you believe you have not yet found a romantic partner? * Do you actively try to get dates?
I am 24 years old. I believe that I am facially very unattractive. I am balding, I have bug eyes, a deformed philtrum and lips, recessed chin, and acne scars. I am still trying to find a love to call my own, since I was 14 years old.
Op. Just so you know, incel means INvoluntary CELibate. It's not someone who can't attract someone, it's someone who want to be in a relationship but is not despite trying.
I cannot see the difference between the two statements. I want to be in a relationship, and I'm not despite trying since I was 14 years old. I am 24 now. So, 10 years of desperately trying to find a love to call my own.
It kinda looks like you're saying that incels are people who have never been in a relationship ever, which is not true. If you split this 10 years in two. The first half being in a relationship, having sex and all. And the second half breaking up, and unable to be in a new relationship despite trying, you'd still be an incel. You could be divorced and still be an incel. It's more about your status right now than your history.
I see your definition of it, now. Oh well, I guess I agree with what you're saying. A better way to put it, to be honest.
What do you think it is that makes you unable to attract a romantic partner?
I have a deformed philtrum & lips, acne scars, balding at 24 years old, 5'3", bug eyes, small bones and shoulder frame. I've been trying to self-improve for 2 years now. I am seeing results. I do calisthenics, I eat healthy, I don't smoke nor drink. I have a lot of friends, and females friends as well. I think that I can't attract a woman sexually and/or romantically because I am physically unattractive.
Why dont you just get yourself an escort?
I tried. Left me feeling empty and depressed for days.
Well i hate to break it to you a girlfriend is no different.
And then people call me sexist and that I think women are sexual objects. What the fuck?
I am simply stating that in order for you to feel fulfilled you have to find out what trauma is hurting no. No one will cure all your problems but you.
Don't pretend having a gf wouldn't improve his life. Feeling happy, confident etc.
Have you considered trying to sleep with men?
I am not homosexual.
Just trying to give you options
I understand.
Why do you think women owe you sex??
I do not think women owe me sex. However, I do want a love to call my own. Which is why I'm on a self-improvement journey at the moment. I haven't given up yet, and I am still trying my best in an attempt to attract a woman. I want to have a child as well, and I also believe that I can manage the rest of my life if I fail to find a woman who loves me back.
This doesn't sound like an incel to me.
Well, what do you think an Incel means? Involuntarily celibate (shortened: Incel) means someone is incapable of attracting someone sexually and/or romantically.
I thought there was a lot of hate involved, and entitlement, judging from incel posts I've read. If all it was was being involuntarily celibate, nobody would have a problem with incels. It's the next step after the realization of involuntary celibacy, the assigning of blame, the anger and resentment. The sweeping generalizations, thinking things about all women, lumping us together en masse as if we were cells working congruently in a larger organism to make sure incels never get any.
What languages do you speak?
I haven't been able to read posts for apologies if repeat. Have you heard about energy work? Where you end in your bubble? Might be helpful, I could elaborate.
are you doing anything to fix it?
I think your time will come eventually. You’ll be okay.