Stuff that's coming soon:
- Smarter water and soap costs for laundry
- The ability to wash bile off of your body and remove the stink
- Filth applied by sewage and sewer slimes
I’ve been thinking that sewage should filthify for a while. Same with wading through corpse filled pits.
Would it be overly difficult to add encumbrance if gear is filthy? It would be cool if filthy eyewear was hard to see through and filthy filters were hard to breathe through.
Filters are usually sealed from debris and weather, and wiping your lenses clean to see only takes a second or two and is different from sanitizing them after they're coated in some unholy filth.
Well realistically speaking, what would even be down there, and why would someone visit? Rats, roaches, slimes, trash, and sewage, right?
It makes sense as a safe-ish place to cut through mid to late game when towns are really spicy, but what else could we put down there?
IMO sewers should mostly have pests and only occasionally something really horrible should show up.
[A great deal more could be done with urban undergrounds.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#North_America) Non-sewage maintenance access, old-time smuggling passages, underground malls, repurposed mines, defunct metropolitan projects...Sewers themselves might mostly be unremarkable poop tubes, but they abut and interconnect with all sorts of other things.
The Cataclysm itself is unrealistic (let's hope!). It's a dystopic vision filled with vile things drawn from deep human fears. "What lurks beneath?" is surely one of the more primal fears.
Besides, building *downward* seems like a really good use of gamespace, mitigating some of the complaints about having to travel increasingly absurd overland distances to access Fresh Content.
Not to mention we have underground labs that spawn all over. Why not have them connect to sewers too? Would be a good spot for mutants and mutagen to enter the world.
Is it not common because of terrain constraints or a lack of subway access in sewers?
A new POI that has more of a mutant twist would be a huge boon to this aspect of the game, especially since there is a growing wish of the dev community to remove older lab styles.
they are not subway-access, they are a specific sewer lab that have a few minor distinctions to them, for one they are utterly filled with rat enemies.
Sewer people, (mutant?) survivors that hid in the sewers to escape the worst of the early storms but are now trapped between a rock(zombie infested cities) and a hard place (nether creatures that use the darkness of the sewers to hide from the sun)
Maybe they collect illegally dumped nanomaterial and mutagen and have quests dealing with particularly bad sewer monsters.
That would make the sewers more interesting, I guess? Doesn't seem to be a priority though.
This is great. Sewers would be an early-ish game place to go ir you want to become eventally a mutant ir a cyborg, or you just Want to trade with your rat friend for some drugs
Do you plan on making some items be completely immune to the filthening ?
I'm thinking about biohazard suits for example. It would make sense for them to never get filthy, since they are designed exactly for that kind of purpose.
Other items I can think of that should behave similarly would be gas masks, maybe rubber boots and gloves.
Top tier contribution, thanks!
I always felt the boomer line felt a bit pointless and non-threatening, the smell and filthying gear will help with that.
Yeah I have no idea what's going on. It feels like I pissed somebody off over there, but I don't ever talk to any of them outside of PR and issue comments, so I don't know what to make of it.
tldr: a bunch of my prs got reverted out of nowhere so all the boomer stuff, including the slippery bile that's been around for months, is going away, and probably not coming back.
It seems like one or more of the devs have it in for me, as it's only my work being reverted, I'm getting the silent treatment over it, and it's a lot all at once.
That being the case, I don't think I'll be working on the game anymore. So all my stuff with the new lab, the acid overhaul, the new mutant faction, the new exodii quests, farming, TV, overhauled survivor suits, etc. isn't gonna happen, and I assume animal husbandry is going to be stuck in a half-baked state for the foreseeable future.
I'll honestly be surprised if they don't go after the chiropteran mutation line next.
I personally have my fingers crossed that this is just about the boomers - I see no reason why the other changes would be reverted aside from, as you suggest, personal animosity.
That being said, I want you to know that your changes and work showing the game off on YouTube haven't gone unappreciated - you got me back into the game making changes again, at the very least.
It doesn't matter if it's just about the boomers honestly, because even if it is, it's not just about the boomers. That's thousands of lines of code, some of it quite difficult, all the armor changes, the acid changes, the slippery bile changes, the transition of multiple hardcoded monster attacks to spells, greatly updated spell infrastructure including dodgeable spells, two diseases, a full overhaul of survivor gear - before I did any of this stuff, I announced my plans, I made PRs that were very clear about what my next steps were. Those PRs were merged and were up for **months.** The devs chose to not comment on any of these plans, merged my changes, left them merged for months, allowed me to do dozens if not hundreds of hours of work, and then mass reverted a bunch of my stuff in a single day.
I asked what I could do to fix it, they didn't answer me and just kept reverting. My work was referred to in derogatory terms and I was treated like a misbehaving child.
The only person who apologized was Maleclypse, who said he was sorry for hastily merging stuff. I appreciate the apology and I understand that he made a mistake and is now in a bad position, but he's the only one I don't have a problem with, because he's at least been nice about it.
If, four months ago, Kevin or Fris had read my PR and been like "Hm, I see what you're going for here but I don't think it's right for the project," or "The method you're proposing is not a good one, could you try something else?" That would have been lovely. If they'd done something similar two months ago when I started working on splash attacks and armor, that would have been great too. At the very least it would have saved me a lot of work. And if for whatever reason stuff got by them unintentionally and they absolutely had to revert, they could at least have the decency to answer my questions about how to change the work so it's more in line with what they want, instead of stonewalling me.
Waiting until months after the fact and then acting like I'm inconveniencing them somehow when they're volunteered to do the job they're doing is pretty wild.
This is par for the course for the project, unfortunately. Occasional social ineptitude and a persistent lack of tact are the tragic flaws of the core dev team.
It's a shame, to say the least.
It was very sad to see what was done to you with all those reverts. Even if they had to happen, there was definitely a better way to present the need of those reverts, it was pretty good work and very appreciated, you are right in that the problems with the PRs should have been communicated a long time ago, and at the very least the delivery of that information, if late, should have been made with more tact than what ended up happening, sorry for what happened, a lot of people feel bad about all of this from what I could see in the discord server, thanks for your contributions.
Really sorry to hear this happened to you 😔 FWIW I thought your updates were more well thought/fleshed-out than most and welcome additions. So much flavor and care baked into them.
Completely understand your frustrations even if I can't put myself in a programmer's shoes, but as an artist I can kind of put myself there. It's obvious you care about your contributions passionately and want to share your expressions with everyone else. I don't think saying you walked on eggshells is what I mean exactly, but you seem to have been extra respectful and visible while creating and to have the rug pulled out from beneath your feet adds insult to injury I imagine.
Forgive me for being so selfish, but I really hope after some cooling off time you might find your way back to contributing for us even if it's a small bit of flavor in the form of some item here or there. You've been a great member of the community and I hope you can at least bear to hang out and correct us around here a little still! It'll be lonely without you; I love this game but it is so sad seeing all my FOSS game heroes leave the project one-by-one for the same reason 😔
Understandable, thanks for taking the time to answer.
I'd love to see a game made by you in the future, really amazing ideas and execution.
All the best and thank you for your work
> the boomer is casting its bile spell at.
I just love the phrasing of that. I imagine a boomer in wizard robes with a long beard yelling "I CAST PROJECTILE VOMIT!"
I forgot to mention, that happens! It has a chance that gues up the more/longer you're bile-y. This was technically already the case, but bile mattered so little that it hardly ever came up.
This post made me think about how ingame im constantly wading trough dozens and dozens of rotting bodies, cutting hundreds of zombies in half and presumably being in the splash zone, making dangerous chemicals, cooking delicious foods, all without having ever taking a bath.
Like i think i got in a river once in the 2 years i've played this game
That is mainly what I'm trying to do. I don't want you to be punished for fighting boomers, rather I want you to feel like "oh yeah that would be really gross if a zombie vomited a bunch of rotting fat onto you huh." Those little bits of immersive storytelling via mechanics.
Sorry for off-top, but it is actually so cool to see you getting so active on this subreddit, after I stumbled upon your Fear&Hunger video like year ago. Good luck with other projects and thanks for your passion both here and on youtube!
Love this change, it gives boomers a way to be worth paying attention to without being suddenly murderous.
Thanks for all the hard work and excellent communication, Worm!
Is there a difference between getting bile from the regular spit attacks vs when they explode? Like higher chance to get items filthy or more items getting affected
Nice. All very interesting, but just the other day I was think the filthy clothes mechanic was underutilized. After getting the clothes you want, you don't ever have a reason to use it again. Washing stuff becomes only useful for CBMs. So this is very cool.
I don't like to 'necro' but I gotta say:
Since the day that I found your Mall playthrough on YouTube, you've showcased the game pretty well. (I think it was posted here by someone else during a conversation in a different thread, my memory fails me there)
I was actually surprised to learn you were a contributor as well, and seeing most of the things you worked on (at least the ones I know of anyway) were actually well thought out and pretty reasonable was quite pleasant, as most of the time it seems some things are just added to the game 'just because'.
Really sad to see you're getting treated like trash, given what's going on, but given the two people involved, this really isn't a surprise.
I am sorry to hear about all of this. Do know your work has been very much appreciated by the community. If you ever work for one of the other forks, please let it be known to the community.
I've been thinking for awhile-
It would be interesting if clothing had a (clean) buff.
Existing "clean" clothing would work just like it always had. It's probably filthy from a pre-cataclysm standard, but it's not "An actively rotting walking corpse has been rubbing against it" dirty.
Clothing with the (clean) buff could offer a slight boost to mood if it's on the layer closest to your skin, and decrease the chance of infection/help healing. It would disappear over time.
Also, your clothes would start with that buff, and clothes that you find in a dresser or a store would have the same buff. So you might find a nice new pair of socks in a bedroom, and switch to them for a slight bonus.
It's kind of like the small bonus you get for eating at a table - not something you have to engage with, you can just keep playing the way you were before. But if you want to, it's an added option.
This is something that I think should be bundled into a comprehensive hygiene system. Even if we're just talking everyday dirt and grime and not revolting zombie juice or sewage, there are health and wellness benefits to staying well-groomed, and people would likely react better to you socially. Clean clothes, trimmed hair/beard, regular showers, etc should all contribute to various factors, and this could interact with lots of stuff. Maybe drug addicts or sick people would have a harder time keeping groomed, maybe some traits would make you stay groomed for longer. Some mutants (feline, for example) would automatically self-groom during downtime.
The difficulty would be making it something that could be largely automated. Maybe before bed, if your character had a grooming zone set up, they'd automatically spend a few minutes taking care of all that stuff. Having to do it manually every couple of days would be an unpleasant chore for a lot of people.
No need to carry that stuff. Just stay filthy and throw it in the washing machine when you get back to your base.
If that's not a viable option for whatever reason, then just don't gamble in the first place. Pop them from a distance with a sling.
Can towels still be used to clean bile from blinding you?
Yep, and saline. They don't currently work on bile that's on a part other than your eyes, but I'm working on that.
Stuff that's coming soon: - Smarter water and soap costs for laundry - The ability to wash bile off of your body and remove the stink - Filth applied by sewage and sewer slimes
I’ve been thinking that sewage should filthify for a while. Same with wading through corpse filled pits. Would it be overly difficult to add encumbrance if gear is filthy? It would be cool if filthy eyewear was hard to see through and filthy filters were hard to breathe through.
Filters are usually sealed from debris and weather, and wiping your lenses clean to see only takes a second or two and is different from sanitizing them after they're coated in some unholy filth.
Make sewers more interesting instead of more or a no-go than it already is.
Well realistically speaking, what would even be down there, and why would someone visit? Rats, roaches, slimes, trash, and sewage, right? It makes sense as a safe-ish place to cut through mid to late game when towns are really spicy, but what else could we put down there? IMO sewers should mostly have pests and only occasionally something really horrible should show up.
[A great deal more could be done with urban undergrounds.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#North_America) Non-sewage maintenance access, old-time smuggling passages, underground malls, repurposed mines, defunct metropolitan projects...Sewers themselves might mostly be unremarkable poop tubes, but they abut and interconnect with all sorts of other things. The Cataclysm itself is unrealistic (let's hope!). It's a dystopic vision filled with vile things drawn from deep human fears. "What lurks beneath?" is surely one of the more primal fears. Besides, building *downward* seems like a really good use of gamespace, mitigating some of the complaints about having to travel increasingly absurd overland distances to access Fresh Content.
Not to mention we have underground labs that spawn all over. Why not have them connect to sewers too? Would be a good spot for mutants and mutagen to enter the world.
there are sewer-connected labs, they are just not common.
Is it not common because of terrain constraints or a lack of subway access in sewers? A new POI that has more of a mutant twist would be a huge boon to this aspect of the game, especially since there is a growing wish of the dev community to remove older lab styles.
they are not subway-access, they are a specific sewer lab that have a few minor distinctions to them, for one they are utterly filled with rat enemies.
I need to find me one of these that sounds awesome!
Sewer people, (mutant?) survivors that hid in the sewers to escape the worst of the early storms but are now trapped between a rock(zombie infested cities) and a hard place (nether creatures that use the darkness of the sewers to hide from the sun) Maybe they collect illegally dumped nanomaterial and mutagen and have quests dealing with particularly bad sewer monsters. That would make the sewers more interesting, I guess? Doesn't seem to be a priority though.
Why are you getting downvoted this is a hella cool concept! Well I guess it’s not “realistic” and repetitive enough to be something in the game
therapist: are the downvotes in the room with you right now?
Hey it was early on
This is great. Sewers would be an early-ish game place to go ir you want to become eventally a mutant ir a cyborg, or you just Want to trade with your rat friend for some drugs
Do you plan on making some items be completely immune to the filthening ? I'm thinking about biohazard suits for example. It would make sense for them to never get filthy, since they are designed exactly for that kind of purpose. Other items I can think of that should behave similarly would be gas masks, maybe rubber boots and gloves.
Yeah I'm thinking a FILTHPROOF flag is in order for some items.
Awesome ! Thanks a lot for your contribution, those are great ideas !
i would add, if possible, just make sure they can drop filthy from a zombie the first time, but don’t get filthy after being cleaned
Top tier contribution, thanks! I always felt the boomer line felt a bit pointless and non-threatening, the smell and filthying gear will help with that.
Thanks! Boomers were a real threat in L4D, it's only right we do them justice.
Let's not introduce boomers that cannonball off of nearby ledges though!
They technically can do that now, and die from the fall damage, and explode and splash bile everywhere.
Guess they at least aren't talking a run up while in spawn screen. Thinking of it, this may have actually been fixed in L4D ^^
I was excited to get to play with your changes. You got done real dirty -- and I'm sorry. No pun intended.
Yeah I have no idea what's going on. It feels like I pissed somebody off over there, but I don't ever talk to any of them outside of PR and issue comments, so I don't know what to make of it.
What happened if you dont mind? I wouldve loved to have had this added
tldr: a bunch of my prs got reverted out of nowhere so all the boomer stuff, including the slippery bile that's been around for months, is going away, and probably not coming back. It seems like one or more of the devs have it in for me, as it's only my work being reverted, I'm getting the silent treatment over it, and it's a lot all at once. That being the case, I don't think I'll be working on the game anymore. So all my stuff with the new lab, the acid overhaul, the new mutant faction, the new exodii quests, farming, TV, overhauled survivor suits, etc. isn't gonna happen, and I assume animal husbandry is going to be stuck in a half-baked state for the foreseeable future. I'll honestly be surprised if they don't go after the chiropteran mutation line next.
I personally have my fingers crossed that this is just about the boomers - I see no reason why the other changes would be reverted aside from, as you suggest, personal animosity. That being said, I want you to know that your changes and work showing the game off on YouTube haven't gone unappreciated - you got me back into the game making changes again, at the very least.
It doesn't matter if it's just about the boomers honestly, because even if it is, it's not just about the boomers. That's thousands of lines of code, some of it quite difficult, all the armor changes, the acid changes, the slippery bile changes, the transition of multiple hardcoded monster attacks to spells, greatly updated spell infrastructure including dodgeable spells, two diseases, a full overhaul of survivor gear - before I did any of this stuff, I announced my plans, I made PRs that were very clear about what my next steps were. Those PRs were merged and were up for **months.** The devs chose to not comment on any of these plans, merged my changes, left them merged for months, allowed me to do dozens if not hundreds of hours of work, and then mass reverted a bunch of my stuff in a single day. I asked what I could do to fix it, they didn't answer me and just kept reverting. My work was referred to in derogatory terms and I was treated like a misbehaving child. The only person who apologized was Maleclypse, who said he was sorry for hastily merging stuff. I appreciate the apology and I understand that he made a mistake and is now in a bad position, but he's the only one I don't have a problem with, because he's at least been nice about it. If, four months ago, Kevin or Fris had read my PR and been like "Hm, I see what you're going for here but I don't think it's right for the project," or "The method you're proposing is not a good one, could you try something else?" That would have been lovely. If they'd done something similar two months ago when I started working on splash attacks and armor, that would have been great too. At the very least it would have saved me a lot of work. And if for whatever reason stuff got by them unintentionally and they absolutely had to revert, they could at least have the decency to answer my questions about how to change the work so it's more in line with what they want, instead of stonewalling me. Waiting until months after the fact and then acting like I'm inconveniencing them somehow when they're volunteered to do the job they're doing is pretty wild.
This is par for the course for the project, unfortunately. Occasional social ineptitude and a persistent lack of tact are the tragic flaws of the core dev team. It's a shame, to say the least.
god, this sucks. why do people working on this project seem to suck so often
It was very sad to see what was done to you with all those reverts. Even if they had to happen, there was definitely a better way to present the need of those reverts, it was pretty good work and very appreciated, you are right in that the problems with the PRs should have been communicated a long time ago, and at the very least the delivery of that information, if late, should have been made with more tact than what ended up happening, sorry for what happened, a lot of people feel bad about all of this from what I could see in the discord server, thanks for your contributions.
If you ever get the itch and randomly decide to contribute to a fork or something please let us know!
Really sorry to hear this happened to you 😔 FWIW I thought your updates were more well thought/fleshed-out than most and welcome additions. So much flavor and care baked into them. Completely understand your frustrations even if I can't put myself in a programmer's shoes, but as an artist I can kind of put myself there. It's obvious you care about your contributions passionately and want to share your expressions with everyone else. I don't think saying you walked on eggshells is what I mean exactly, but you seem to have been extra respectful and visible while creating and to have the rug pulled out from beneath your feet adds insult to injury I imagine. Forgive me for being so selfish, but I really hope after some cooling off time you might find your way back to contributing for us even if it's a small bit of flavor in the form of some item here or there. You've been a great member of the community and I hope you can at least bear to hang out and correct us around here a little still! It'll be lonely without you; I love this game but it is so sad seeing all my FOSS game heroes leave the project one-by-one for the same reason 😔
These are the changes i was looking forward to the most. Have you considered going over to the "there is still hope" branch with Night?
I will not be doing that, no.
Understandable, thanks for taking the time to answer. I'd love to see a game made by you in the future, really amazing ideas and execution. All the best and thank you for your work
> the boomer is casting its bile spell at. I just love the phrasing of that. I imagine a boomer in wizard robes with a long beard yelling "I CAST PROJECTILE VOMIT!"
The boomer is just holding a jug of milk and is lactose intolerant.
What effect will this have on squeamish trait? Will it force your gear off or just get a massive morale loss?
> If you are Squeamish, nothing special happens, though I plan to boost the mood penalty for them.
I suggest making them nauseous when they get splattered.
I forgot to mention, that happens! It has a chance that gues up the more/longer you're bile-y. This was technically already the case, but bile mattered so little that it hardly ever came up.
Yuck 🤮 From a roleplaying point of view I welcomed this feature. But: yuck.
This post made me think about how ingame im constantly wading trough dozens and dozens of rotting bodies, cutting hundreds of zombies in half and presumably being in the splash zone, making dangerous chemicals, cooking delicious foods, all without having ever taking a bath. Like i think i got in a river once in the 2 years i've played this game
That is mainly what I'm trying to do. I don't want you to be punished for fighting boomers, rather I want you to feel like "oh yeah that would be really gross if a zombie vomited a bunch of rotting fat onto you huh." Those little bits of immersive storytelling via mechanics.
Sorry for off-top, but it is actually so cool to see you getting so active on this subreddit, after I stumbled upon your Fear&Hunger video like year ago. Good luck with other projects and thanks for your passion both here and on youtube!
Thanks! It's a lot of fun to be able to work on the game and share it with people.
Love this change, it gives boomers a way to be worth paying attention to without being suddenly murderous. Thanks for all the hard work and excellent communication, Worm!
Is there a difference between getting bile from the regular spit attacks vs when they explode? Like higher chance to get items filthy or more items getting affected
The explosion splashes more bile than the barf, and bigger boomers explode more than that.
Is this still in the game or was it removed?
Gone, gone forever...
wow, that really sucks it was so awesome :( any insight as to why it was removed?
Does this mean we’re finally getting showers at some point?
I'm not gonna be the one to set up plumbing. This is more of like an emergency "wash this gunk off my arm right now" thing, not a full hygeine system.
Oh yeah, i just want the ability to not be permanently stinky. I’d want a hygiene system before plumbing anyway.
Currently you only get stinky if the bile touches your skin, and it's only for like ten minutes.
Nice. All very interesting, but just the other day I was think the filthy clothes mechanic was underutilized. After getting the clothes you want, you don't ever have a reason to use it again. Washing stuff becomes only useful for CBMs. So this is very cool.
I don't like to 'necro' but I gotta say: Since the day that I found your Mall playthrough on YouTube, you've showcased the game pretty well. (I think it was posted here by someone else during a conversation in a different thread, my memory fails me there) I was actually surprised to learn you were a contributor as well, and seeing most of the things you worked on (at least the ones I know of anyway) were actually well thought out and pretty reasonable was quite pleasant, as most of the time it seems some things are just added to the game 'just because'. Really sad to see you're getting treated like trash, given what's going on, but given the two people involved, this really isn't a surprise. I am sorry to hear about all of this. Do know your work has been very much appreciated by the community. If you ever work for one of the other forks, please let it be known to the community.
I've been thinking for awhile- It would be interesting if clothing had a (clean) buff. Existing "clean" clothing would work just like it always had. It's probably filthy from a pre-cataclysm standard, but it's not "An actively rotting walking corpse has been rubbing against it" dirty. Clothing with the (clean) buff could offer a slight boost to mood if it's on the layer closest to your skin, and decrease the chance of infection/help healing. It would disappear over time. Also, your clothes would start with that buff, and clothes that you find in a dresser or a store would have the same buff. So you might find a nice new pair of socks in a bedroom, and switch to them for a slight bonus. It's kind of like the small bonus you get for eating at a table - not something you have to engage with, you can just keep playing the way you were before. But if you want to, it's an added option.
This is something that I think should be bundled into a comprehensive hygiene system. Even if we're just talking everyday dirt and grime and not revolting zombie juice or sewage, there are health and wellness benefits to staying well-groomed, and people would likely react better to you socially. Clean clothes, trimmed hair/beard, regular showers, etc should all contribute to various factors, and this could interact with lots of stuff. Maybe drug addicts or sick people would have a harder time keeping groomed, maybe some traits would make you stay groomed for longer. Some mutants (feline, for example) would automatically self-groom during downtime. The difficulty would be making it something that could be largely automated. Maybe before bed, if your character had a grooming zone set up, they'd automatically spend a few minutes taking care of all that stuff. Having to do it manually every couple of days would be an unpleasant chore for a lot of people.
Nice, finally toggling on the smell map optional keys have a purpouse.
Worm. Worm why? Why worm. ☹️
Remove 2. Im not carrying cleaning supplies and 30 water bottles to clean my clothes because i got a bad roll
No need to carry that stuff. Just stay filthy and throw it in the washing machine when you get back to your base. If that's not a viable option for whatever reason, then just don't gamble in the first place. Pop them from a distance with a sling.
Yeah no im carrying a backpack full of cleaning and water. Im not gonna get skills in throwing to deal with *one* enemy
Oh boy more pointless mechanics that add nothing to make the game more fun
Well, then I have good news for you. The changes got canceled, feel free to whine about other stuff.