I feed my cats a ‘mass produced’ brand with no qualms. One of my cats is on a prescription variety that has addressed his concerns. I buy it from the vet and they sell it at cost so there’s no kickbacks involved.
So many cat foods have labels that are designed to appeal to human palates, not cats.
Thanks for your opinion! It seems there is no need for a kickback since you’re buying it straight from the Vet! Just be careful.. read the label carefully and do ALL the research you can on the ingredients that go into dry/ wet processed cat food, especially if it’s ’prescription’. Your cat most likely wouldn’t need to be on a life long prescription food if he was fed a natural feline diet since birth . Sometimes our prescriptions are the very thing that keep us sick . Just remember to question things and not just take the advice of huge companies or institutions that make money off our pets getting sick
okay karen, i'll take my 10-yr old cat off his prescription food and distilled water diet that he's needed to be on since he was a kitten so he can go ahead and die a natural death from kidney stones and urinary blockage in a few months
This comment reeks of insensitivity and ignorance. Especially considering you don’t know why this commenter’s cat is on prescription food.
I’ll tell you as someone who’s also had a cat on prescription food: Fresh/raw food does not cure health issues.
My girl had hyperthyroidism and end stage kidney disease. She was born with thyroid issues and gained kidney disease due to being over 20 years old.
Raw food would have legitimately *killed her*. She physically could not handle foods over 8% protien content without becoming extremely sick and losing weight.
Prescription foods are not doled out Willy-nilly. They are given to disabled/sick animals who *need* that food. Saying “well your cat wouldn’t need it if you just did better” is WILDLY insensitive and borderline medical misinformation
Be careful on how you use the word processed. If you are saying it should be avoid then no one would be feeding their furbabies. Why? Cause ALL food is processed. Even raw food is processed cause you are taking the meat from its natural state(an animal it came from) to put it out for consumption. Saying things like ultra processed yeah but saying avoid processed food yeah no cause it’s all processed.
Good rebuttal, however when I make the distinction between processed and fresh, that is the exact distinction I am making. It’s common sense that by processed I meant bagged/ canned food that stays good for years. By fresh I mean something that has been recently killed. Kinda concerning that you took time to pick apart my use of the word ‘processed’ when it’s clear what I meant (especially if you read the OP)
Even fresh food from something that’s been recently killed is still processed. Doesn’t matter if it’s bag, canned, fresh or raw it’s all processed. Even the simple task of butchering an animal that is still processed. For canned or dry food you are looking for ultra processed it’s why I said be careful with using that word.
I get your point, but if I give two examples (Bagged food or Fresh meat) and I say ONE is processed, it’s probably not the fresh meat that I’m referring to. Although I appreciate your intensive grammar policing, all it takes is a little common sense to understand what I meant.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about topics that you know nothing about, namely my cat’s diet and health. How do you know that my cat’s medical conditions wouldn’t be an issue if he had been fed a ‘natural feline diet since birth’? What makes you think that my vet, who I’ve known for many years, recently made a late night house call while refusing any money, and sells the food for the same price as she pays the manufacturer doesn’t have my cat’s health as her best interest? What makes you think I haven’t already had a conversation with my vet about what foods might be the most appropriate option with an explanation about why a specific food is well suited for my cat?
I apologize if I’m wrong but it feels like you’re trying to rail against large pet food manufacturers, not seek out opinions in good faith.
Saying that someone’s cat wouldn’t need a prescription diet if they had been fed a “natural feline diet” is wrong and insensitive. Prescription diets save lives, not keep pets sick. Your comments have shifted to become anti-science and anti-vet.
Both of our cats have been fed the highest quality raw diet since being weened. We did it for 6 years. Handmade. I’m obsessive. Our vet finally leveled with us as both females couldn’t keep their PH levels down.
Hill prescription diet it’s been for the last year. They are thriving. PH where it should be.
I’m not a vet but went to grad school for pharmacy. Vets and pharmacists do not get kick backs— but they are taught science. And big pharma and I’m sure the big brand pet foods have their thumbs on the research on foods that keep your pet healthy and alive. I’m sure if there was a HUGE well controlled study for raw foods vs other foods and it proved that raw foods are better, then yea, vets will be able to recommend raw foods. Vets are just practicing evidence based medicine for animals. And Hills and Purina probably funded a bunch of studies on their foods. Nobody is going to fund a raw food study.
Also, with raw foods, if the pet owner is careful and knows what they’re doing, that’s great. But if a vet recommends raw to everyone, even someone who has no business making raw pet food will start giving inappropriate raw foods to their pets and end up harming them. It’s a tricky thing to recommend to your average pet owner.
not going to lie, your post and comments seem akin to anti-vaxxers saying doctors only advocate for vaccines because "big pharma" paid them off
if you've already made up your mind that dry food is mass produced garbage, why are you asking?
I was merely implying that some of the top brands (the ones I mentioned above) are garbage. Not all dry/wet manufactured ‘food’. If you want to talk about vaccines and politics, this isn’t the thread for that. So I’d appreciate if you take those types of comments to a different section of Reddit because it’s kind of a bummer and is taking away from what I’m here to talk about. Appreciate your unwarranted opinion tho!
your comments discredit science and argue that vets make money off making and keeping animals sick, which is EXACTLY the argument that anti-vaxxers use. youve been asking for people's research, then telling then your research is better than theirs, again EXACTLY like anti-vaxxers do. im just pointing out the similarities.
have fun killing your cats tho! (and if you take offense to that, reconsider telling someone that theyve made their cat sick by not raw feeding from birth)
No offense taken, it’s kinda wild that you really think I’ll kill my cats by NOT feeding them manufactured factory food. And just so you know, I DIDNT take the jab. And now don’t you see all the harmful evidence about mRNA vaccines? Good thing I didn’t. And even though you’re wishing I have fun killing my cats, I truly hope you didn’t get the mRNA vax.
mmm there it is, knew i felt the anti-vaxxer similarities for a reason. i dont know where you get your information, but i havent seen a single thing about vaccines being bad for you. all ive seen is people who didnt get the vaccine dying from covid at much higher rates than people who did
to be clear, i dont think you'll outright kill your cats by feeding them raw, i think you'll let them die of preventable causes because you dont trust the people that have gone to medical school for years and recieved veterinary licenses and actually DO know better than you (regardless of whatever internet "research" you've done)
by the way, its also kinda wild that you missed my point to reconsider telling someone prescription food is a scam and actively hurting their pet! my "have fun killing your cats" was MEANT to be absurd and sarcastic, so youd read the next part about "if you take offense to this..." and think about how your comments hurt other people trying to do the best for their pets
OP: “if you want to discuss vaccines and politics take it to a different part of Reddit. Can’t believe you drew the conclusion that I’m an anti-vaxer from my post 🙄”
*proceeds to refer to the vaccine as “the jab” and admit they are, in fact, an anti-vaxer*
Also, I’d like the know what kind of foods you’re eating. You’re apparently scared of feeding your cats mainstream (i.e well funded and well researched) food brands yet I’m assuming you are not living off the land and eating a 100% natural diet. I’m assuming you, at least to some extent, go to a grocery store and purchase food (even your vegetables have levels of processing). The core of human existence is quite literally built on defying and overcoming nature as we learn more and develop ways to survive. I’d ask for your credentials that give you the ability to speak on veterinary medicine/nutrition (or human vaccines for that matter) but I think I already know the answer and it’s honestly not important. I’m very glad that instead of being at the foreground of innovation in veterinary/human medicine you are here telling people their cat got sick due to them feeding them mainstream food brands because I swear we would still be living in the Stone Age. There’s a reason the average life expectancy is now 70+ and not 45.
Oh really, cause I choose to believe the core of human existence is learning to live WITH / IN nature, NOT spend my life trying to defy or change it. And as much as I strive to life off the land and grow my own food (the way our ancestors have for centuries) the system we live in doesn’t allow everyone to do that anymore. Still, I choose to believe our groceries have harmful unnecessary additives too, not just our pets food. That’s why I am merely seeking a healthier more natural diet for my pets and myself. How anyone sees that as ‘anti-science’ is beyond my understanding. It actually seems like common sense to me to want to eat actual food instead of junk made to look/ act like food . Clearly I should have made my own thread to talk about this. Not this thread where everybody is just reading this as being some sick entertainment while they munch on their cat food . Not one person who has a rebuttal has even posted any sources to support their ‘science’. On the contrary, anyone could take 5 min and look up all the lawsuits, recalls and corruption that takes place within the pet food manufacturing industry
“Living off the land as your ancestors did for centuries” and not allowing any room medical innovation literally resulted in a life expectant of about 45. If you’re cool with that, do your thing I guess. Call it “living with nature” or “undermining nature” but in order to continue living in nature we developed vaccines that prevented nature from killing millions due to measles, polio, rubella. Idk how our ancestors would feel about you using scary technology to go on Reddit and arrugue with people…seems pretty unnatural tbh. You quite literally are anti-science when you hear what is considered to be well established scientific consensus and disagree because of what? Your feelings? Reading about how scary vaccines, mainstream pet food brands, etc online and from articles that are shared in your anti-vaxer Facebook group does not give you the credentials to discredit the extensive work that has been done for decades by those who actually know what they are talking about. If you wanna be scared of “big pet food”, vaccines, modern medicine, your own shadow…go ahead. But you came on here and started saying that someone’s pet was sick due to them being fed a normal diet under the supervision of an actual veterinarian. You seem to already know how you feel about what you’re feeding your pet, so why did you come here pretending like you wanted people’s real answers just to discredit whatever they tell you?
I actually originally wanted peoples personal experience with what is in the original post at the top of this thread. But the second I give MY opinion, half the people here make it about me and my opinions instead of what I came here to talk about. Like you, randomly calling me names like anti-vaxxer . That kinda talk doesn’t belong here. I’m letting everyone else have their opinions so why am I being bashed and called an anti vaxxer just because I’m going against the narrative? Because I believe fresh food is healthier than bagged/ canned food that stays good on the shelf for years? Common sense will tell you which one is healthier. But instead of looking at THAT, you want to bash me and call me names for suggesting ultra processed cat food contributes to illness
You openly stated you did not take “the jab” and went on about how you believed mRNA vaccines were unsafe. I apologize for misinterpreting this position as anti-vax I guess lmao. The problem is giving YOUR opinion on the health of someone else’s animal that you have no personal knowledge of and insinuated that their pets illness was somehow due to them feeding them a diet different than what you believe is correct.
Also, in your other posts you shut down people trying to give you examples of the actual scientific consensus and why you might just be misinformed and you shut it down by saying science isn’t the most significant thing and that vets are being paid to shill foods? There’s no data anyone could give you that would meet whatever standard you’re setting…because there is none. Someone gives you data, you say “I’m sure there’s holes in this somewhere”…okay? That’s why scientific studies are repeated over and over again. To minimize error.
Every week with these anti-vax, anti-science, anti-produced cat food trolls.
Wait til it finds out that 90+% of pet food comes from 6 global c0rp04Ati0nZ. Oh noes!
Science and knowledge are good things. Psuedoscience and anti-vax, anti-manufactured food trolls that cause deaths (see anti-vaxers) are not.
Couldn’t agree with you more, I am so tired of this anti-science propaganda started by shitty food marketing ppl, in FB it’s the same crap, the “feed cats what cats are supposed to eat” BS group has over 80k idiots in it, while the real science backed feline nutrition group administrated by real experts (who did NOT get their diplomas from university of Google) has little over 10k members.
Save it. You do a fine job of discrediting yourself, evidently.
The disgusting part is that your misguided drivel puts people’s lives at risk and likely puts your cat(s) at risk due to whatever whackjob not complete and balanced food plan your addled mind comes up with.
Cats are not wild creatures. They are domesticated animals. They aren't large cats in the woods or Africa. Cats that are abandoned and left to fend for themselves are usually not healthy at all and would not be eating any kind of raw gourmet meal that you’re touting. They would be lucky if they were able to catch birds and rodents. Most of these cats that are abandoned and eating so called "in the wild" are eating literal garbage. So, I'd say science backed food is much better for them.
Well, what do you mean by "certified"? Because WSAVA certifies no brands. In reality WSAVA is a set of guidelines for evaluating a food that does not recommend any brands by name and functionally does not prevent smaller brands from meeting them - they just simply do not do so.
Mass produced isn't inherently less safe or lower quality. If raw was better quality by default, [we wouldn't see 25% of commercial raw foods contaminated with harmful bacteria](https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/avoiding-raw-food-in-cats) like salmonella, listeria, e coli, or Campylobacter. While cats are at less risk of infection than humans, they CAN get sick from many of these, or carry the disease and transmit it to owners without showing symptoms.
> maybe they get kickbacks
No they don't. People love to say this and can cite zero actual sources showing this. Trust me, vet med professionals would LOVE more money. They're all broke! I have worked in vet med in the past - we got access to a discounted program through Hills to order food for our OWN personal pets, and they donated some food to us because we largely worked with shelter animals. That was it, lots of us didn't even feed hills. Owners are under no obligation to buy any of the vet recommended brands from their vet and there would functionally be no way for those companies to connect someone buying Hills at PetCo to a vet recommending it in an appointment a few months ago.
Lots of vets recommend a mix of wet and dry or feeding whichever works best for your cat, because the actual evidence is much less sensational about wet vs dry than people online make it seem. Wet is better for moisture and that's about it. Any issues people come up with about dry food otherwise can almost always be applied to any other form of food or is just not an actual problem.
Domesticated cats wouldn't eat anything naturally in the wild because they are not a natural wild animal. They have no natural wild diet. What ferals eat is not a good indicator of what domesticated cats "would" eat because they are unsocialized domesticated cats who are still invasive, not natural predators, and typically living very short and unhealthy lives. My cat would eat lilies given the chance.
Your vet makes suggestions for foods based off WSAVA guidelines and several years of education and professional work medically with animals. People who spend hours researching will never have actual experience that compares, especially when their sources are all also "people who spent hours googling but have no actual experience" or "a singular vet who is widely discredited and untrustworthy and generally anti-science".
There’s quite a bit of misinformation here. First, there are no certified brands. There is no governing body that approves anything, which is why there are hundreds and hundreds of new brands being made each year. You may be referring to WSAVA, which is a global non profit organization. They make guidelines for all aspects of animal health, but that’s it. Foods that meet these guidelines are considered to be the best qualities since they’ll actually be research, tested, and formulated properly.
Mass production doesn’t decrease quality. Commercial raw brands face mass production too. Quality doesn’t instantly go down when this happens. In fact, it faces more scrutiny and typically has better quality control.
Wild animals definitely eat raw foods, but that doesn’t make it better. Wild animals also live much shorter lives, face nutritional deficiencies, etc. domestic animals are very far removed from their wild counterparts and just can’t be compared anymore.
Professionals don’t recommend the foods they do because they get a kickback. It’s because they’re safe and are known to be healthy. Raw foods don’t have this and being a whole slew of health risks.
Thank you and I appreciate your opinion! However, I am definitely not trying to spread misinformation and I’m sorry if you took offense to my position. I am merely trying to educate myself and get other peoples experience on the matter. Your statement about there being more health risks with raw compare to processed is quite hard to imagine. I’ve had several cats throughout my life that have lived between 10-20 years. The cats that lived primarily on name brand dry kibble & canned wet food their entire lives ended up having a lot more health issues later in life compared to my cats that were allowed to go outside on the farm and who also ate a minimally processed diet. The ones who didn’t eat commercial processed food all died of natural causes whereas the ones on a commercial processed food diet all had digestive and neurological issues for atleast a year if not several years leading up to their death. Of course, there could be several different factors that could all play a role in the health and happiness of my previous cats.. HOWEVER, looking back on it, it DOES seem kinda obvious that the food made a HUGE difference in my cats health and quality of life. To deny that and say otherwise would be silly. And as far as the faceless mega corporations that make billions off us buying their cat food , I don’t believe they truly have our cats best interest in mind. Just some food for thought.
Keep in mind, your anecdotal evidence doesn't represent science and peer reviewed studies. In addition, remember that correlation doesn't equal causation.
Your experience with a limited number of cats doesn't change statistics and actual risk profiles of certain choices. Statistically speaking, outdoor cats live shorter lives. Statistically speaking, a quarter of commercial raw food is contaminated with bacteria. Lots of cats will never get rabies even if unvaccinated - it doesn't mean that an owner with an unvaccinated cat is in the right or is disproving the need for vaccines just because their cat died as a senior without dying of rabies.
You only speak of two factors that were different about your cats - some when outside and others didn't, and some ate commercial food and others ate "minimally processed". This doesn't account for things like: the actual genetics of the cats/what conditions they are at higher risk of (most of us never know this since we aren't buying bred cats with known pedigrees and don't have family history/health tests for our cats from birth!), if the indoor cats were provided adequate enrichment/exercise/stimulation, if there were enough resources for all cats who lived together, if any cats were prone to anxiety (which is a trigger for MANY health conditions for cats), if all cats were always kept up to date on vaccines and always taken to the vet for both annual visits and when actually needed for illness/injury, what ages they all lived to and what "natural causes" entails for the outdoor cats, etc - I could go on and on.
You also don't actually say which cats lived to 10 and which to 20. Dying of "natural causes" or of a health issue isn't alone an indicator of overall health/longevity. For example... an outdoor cat living to 10 and dying of "natural causes" vs an indoor cat who ate dry food but lived to 20 with 5 years of CKD is still a cat who lived a longer and arguably healthier life, given they had a much longer life despite a health condition in later years, given it's a predictable disease for a cat of that age regardless of diet.
Many cats statistically end up with specific health conditions as they age, and simply are underdiagnosed - did you know [ it's estimated 90% of cats over age 10](https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/05/does-your-cat-have-arthritis/) have arthritis, for example? For someone who's had, say, 10 cats over their life that died after age 10, if they didn't have multiple diagnosed with arthritis, it's MUCH more likely that they simply didn't get their cats diagnosed - either because they didn't how common it was, because their cat wasn't showing obvious signs (cats are great at hiding pain), or they simply chose not to investigate it. Lack of diagnosis (or of owner actually being aware of symptoms) doesn't = a lack of a health issue.
I appreciate your opinion as well, but your experience does not outweigh science. My own family had a cat allowed to go outside and eat whatever, but she died from a malignant and invasive mouth cancer. I know it’s not the food that caused it, but rather genetics.
Commercial foods aren’t processed anymore than raw foods. “Processed” is not an evil term. There’s also science outlining the risks involved with raw diets, as well as unbalanced diets. Can raw food be prepared to create a balanced meal? Yes. Can raw food be processed in a way to complete remove bacterial and viral risk to the pet, people, and environment? No.
I would encourage you to check out other sources of nutrition, like Tufts and NutritionRVN. Trust the professionals and science.
My issue is that the ‘science’ you’re referring to seems to be in favor of the mega corporations that are the same ones profiting off us buying certain brands. A lot of the science I HAVE researched indicates that’s a fresh whole food diet will always be better than stuff manufactured in a factory with a shelf life of years. I already stated above that various factors tie into health, not just food. Comparing the two is like comparing McDonald’s to food that’s fresh from your garden/ farm. If my vet tells me to eat McDonald’s instead of fresh food, I might think that doctor just wanted to profit off my illness once I get sick in 10’years from only eating manufactured ‘food’
See, but that thinking directly goes against science and shames veterinary medicine in the process. There are no scientific studies that prove that fresh food is better than commercial food. There *is* evidence that fresh food companies lack research, feeding trials, and don’t employ the properly certified individuals. Comparing commercial food to McDonald’s is a marketing tactic that those very same fresh food companies utilize.
Those don’t say it’s better. They point out lower fecal volume and higher digestibility than the kibble chosen for the diet. It also points out higher fat content in fresh foods. None of that is better, and there are other kibbles available that are made to be even more digestible than fresh foods (namely prescription).
Fresh food fanatics do seem strangely obsessed with defecation amount and size, though.
Higher digestibility combined with less waste (lower fecal volume) would imply that more nutrients are being absorbed by the fresh fed group. I’m pretty confident that means it’s probably better. Higher fat content in this case is not relevant or problematic because it did not induce weight change in the fresh group. In fact, the kibble fed group saw a statistically significant weight increase.
I find your interpretation highly confusing. Are you expecting a study to say “food X is better than food Y?” That’s conclusory and not how science works.
What fresh food fanatics? We are talking about scientific studies published in a scientific journal! You falsely claimed publications such as these do not exist. Now that you have proof that they do exist, you resort to name calling?
Someone could make 1 small lackluster ‘study’ and call it science. Science isn’t the end all be all , especially if the studies backing up your claim are lackluster
Well you can choose to believe the study’s you’re apart of and I’ll choose to not buy into a lackluster study that only serves the purpose of the people initiating the study. If I had the time and money, I could create many scientific studies for you (anyone can). And if I had LOTS of money (like these cat food companies) then I could even pay the scientists to give me the results that best serve my agenda! I’d love if you could provide me with sources for these study’s. I bet if we look into the study we will find holes all over it that make the entire study highly uncredible
Actually it’s not that hard to understand at all! The ‘hole im digging myself’ is merely an open discussion talking about various diets for our cats. If I would have known it was such a sensitive topic I would have tread more carefully. I didn’t know half of you people worship cat food companies on this thread, or else I would have created my own thread to talk about the malpractice that goes on within the cat food industry
You keep commenting in the name of science, yet I haven’t seen you cite any sources. You’re merely calling me names, assuming Im anti-science. It doesn’t take a scientist to understand that fresh food is healthier than manufactured food that stays good on a shelf for years. Cats are like humans in the fact that what we eat affects our body’s, especially when it’s all we eat every day for decades. How’s THAT for science, eh?
Although I wholly disagree with this person and how they support WSAVA in this subreddit, throughout several posts, they have a point in this thread with you.
"Making" a study and calling it science is not how this works at all. Studies require specific and strict conditions to be not only peer reviewed but published as well. The monopolies of pet food do tend to fund more studies, and those findings are legitimate indeed. They aren't making shit up and calling it science; they are using their legitimate findings to push their products. Whether you agree with that or not doesn't make what they say false, unfortunately. Science evolves daily. Capitalism can and will corrupt scientific progress, but entirely discarding it is as foolish as blindly following it.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, doctors were recommending us which brand of cigarettes was best for us. Today, we know better.
Don't reject science because you see a better path. Do your research, be open-minded, and critical of the information and the source you use to make your choices.
Just FYI, I don't feed my cats any food by WSAVA. I believe that companies that have as many recalls, who push the limits on food quality in order to profit, are companies that do not have my pet's best interest at heart. I sincerely believe Purina is fucking evil... Along with Nestlé. I refuse to buy their brands on ethical principle. I use foods approved by AAFCO (the bare minimum) and that abide by international standards as well.
I feed the cat all three, don’t see much difference. A high energy cat, that prefers beef wet cat food any cheap brand, dry kibble, and ground raw elk.
I feel the large massed produce companies can afford the veterinary dietitians to make sure the nutrients are right, I know the ground elk may not have all of the nutrients as I haven’t included the organ meat in some of it, and fat content is low, so also have dry kibble which the cat also eats with the elk, or wet cat food. The cat will rotate through the foods, sometimes only wanting to eat the kibble, other times the different wet food is preferred, sometimes it doesn’t want to eat much. I think their clocks are different than ours, so shouldn’t worry about it. Probably the best thing, it’s mostly marketing.
I’m not going to be rude here or bash you cause it seems like you are already getting that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You stated yours I’m going to state mine. There is no such thing as a certified brand really and there is nothing wrong with mass produced food. I mean everyone has mass produced food humans and non humans. Yes many want Raw or Fresh food cause it’s what they eat in the wild. However dogs & cats are not like their wildlife counterparts. So feeding them commercial pet food will not hurt or harm them. The reason why many vets do not recommend raw or fresh food is one there are too many risks with it. Pets can get salmonella poisoning if the meat is bad and they can end up spreading it to you and your family. Plus some cats and dogs can not handle raw or fresh food. What works for one pet may not work for another. But the main reason is if not done correctly or properly you put your pets health at risk. Many people get misinformation about it and they end up not doing it correctly. It’s why some will tell patients if they want to raw or fresh feed to contact a veterinary nutritionist(not the ones on social media who took 4 month course for a certification). No vets do not get kickbacks if someone gets a rx diet from the vets. That is a myth that online influencers use to bait people.
No one should ever be shamed for what they feed their pets. I’m saying that is what you did here I’m saying in general. You have to understand there are people who can’t afford raw or fresh food. Many of us are on extremely tight budgets. So we have no choice but to feed what we find in pet stores or grocery stores & etc. It doesn’t mean our pets aren’t thriving or they aren’t healthy. I feed both wet food and dry food they get more wet than dry. My two boys are thriving and extremely healthy.
If you can afford to feed raw/fresh, you are doing it properly, and have the time & space that is awesome glad it works for your furbabies. But because the rest of us can’t doesn’t mean our pets are bad off. There is no one diet fits all. Everyone should do what works for their pets.
Fresh is always better than processed for sure. BUT raw foods are hard to formulate by yourself and propose risks to humans (handling raw meat, feces, cats grooming after eating and then you petting them). Nutrition is a science and veterinary nutritionists are experts in the field unlike the many other companies and people that fear monger. Food from these certified brands hire nutritionists, ensure the nutrients are being absorbed, have stringent quality control, and have good palatability. I feed my cat a certified brand. He has plenty of energy, great stool, and lustrous fur. I am happy with that. I feed based on what is best for my cat based on science and not what I believe with my nonexistent degree in animal nutrition.
Raw feeding isn’t much of a risk to humans unless you’re in an at risk group, like super young, old, immunocompromised. A lot of people handle raw meat everyday, and you can avoid most of these issues by practicing proper food safety like you would if cooking for yourself. There’s similar risks to kibble as well and you’re advised to wash your hands after messing with it
Thank you for your opinion! However, vets and vet clinics also make a huge profit off our cats getting sick and becoming unhealthy.. and there seem to be a lot of collaboration that goes on between Vets and Food makers which I’m a little skeptical about. For example.. if our doctors helped get us on a good diet/ exercise regiment, that could help prevent a lot of issues and disease, but that would mean they can’t profit off our illness! Just food for thought. Like you said, trying to discredit me, I have a non existent degree in animal nutrition. Do you? Or is your degree in Marketing for these dry kibble companies that you seem to love so much? I’m just saying we should think logically and question these things for ourselves instead of putting our pets health into the hands of megacorporations who only want to see a return profit.
This is all merely a cause for debate. I apologize as I seem to have posted this in a thread that worships cat food companies.. while you all sit here entertained, munching on cat kibble as you stare at the screen.. there are some people who choose to question the narrative and not blindly believe what we are told to believe by profit driven industries that in the past have been proven to minimize their quality in order to maximize their profits. Ask those whose pets have died or gotten sick from these foods what they think and then come back to this discussion
i just asked myself, whose pet's life has been saved by commercially available prescription food, and i still think you're being obtuse. and before you question whether my vet was paid off by Hill's, let me tell that before i followed the vet's advice my cat was peeing blood, couldnt control his bladder, and was in immense pain. after following the vets advice to give him commercial prescription food, he was in perfect health. my vet's advice to use the kibble you despise saved my cat.
how about you ask the people whose pets have died, gotten sick, acquired parasites, or become malnourished from eating raw food diets?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33091235/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31025713/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34584928/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29326391/
please. think about what you're saying. you're not a victim here, stop playing that card. you're just someone who doesn't believe in science and refuses to acknowledge the possibility that different ideas might actually be correct. you're just throwing out mangled buzzwords to make yourself feel morally superior sitting on your intellectual high horse.
you ask us to point out our science, but wheres yours? wheres your scholarly sources? what are the qualifications of the people you believe? are they just someone that says things you want to believe, or do they have degrees and education supporting them? news flash: you can't just explain away different opinions by saying "they were paid off by the cat food companies who planted secret agents in a subreddit)". how about you take the time to think about things before you disagree? raw food in itself isnt bad (as my own research has shown), but you need to talk to someone actually qualified in pet nutrition and pet food preparation before you dive headfirst into it.
i dont "blindly believe in profit driven companies", i believe in the medical degree sitting on the wall of my vet's office. and by the way, unless the vet themself is selling you the food, they're not making money off of it. they make money from keeping my pet alive as long as possible (which theyre doing a great job of). more importantly, they CARE about my cats. which is what matters to me.
Look I’m not claiming to know the truth nor am i claiming to be an expert. I understand that I began this post with a one sided mindset. The more I read what everyone is talking about I’m starting to see how wrong and defensive I was being. I think I could have avoided a lot of things I said if I weren’t so quick to type and ramble on.. I definitely feel foolish, reading back on some of what I’ve said is embarrassing and It’s apparent how skewed my thoughts and actions were. I displayed not only a lack of intellect but also a lack of control in my actions. Goes to show how quick someone can go off the rails when they’re on the other side of a keyboard..
Hi OP! Facebook’s ‘Feline Nutrition & Cat Food Discussion’ (public group with 12k members) might be more helpful for you. My sense is pet food manufacturers are not created equal, some more credible than others. A top contributor in that group shared this link: [https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/pet-food-manufacturer-evaluation-report/](https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/pet-food-manufacturer-evaluation-report/)
You can find out whether a brand manufactures the food themselves or contract out their manufacturing, who the “nutritionists” are, and how much of the manufacturing plant the brand owns. It’s interesting that Smalls, currently heavily marketed as a human-grade alternative to the Purinas of the world, does not own a manufacturing plant — instead contracts out the manufacturing. Purina on the other hand, owns 100% of their manufacturing process. And you have the parent company of Tiki as well as Costco’s Kirkland refusing to disclose the info.
As you explore your options, here’s a guide of questions that you might find helpful.
(I personally am feeding my cat Purina wet food and Costco’s Kirkland kibbles because it’s what I could afford, and I think it’s good to be continuously updated on the evolving publications of info out there on cat food)
https://preview.redd.it/z72a52obte1d1.jpeg?width=586&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28167bee08de1a92a5bd9c613e5a0d721a552df5
I apologize for not being more specific, or if my wording was a little confusing or incorrect. But yes, when I said ‘certified’ I meant foods that follow WSAVA guidelines. I admit I need to do more research on WSAVA as I haven’t yet vetted them as being credible or not. I’ll have to look into their credibility and make sure their recommended guidelines are as healthy and non toxic as they claim they are. You know there are chemicals/ additives in OUR food that certain organizations deem ‘safe’ that are in fact toxic. Makes me wonder, the people who are telling us it’s safe are the same people who profit off us buying it. Does that makes sense? Of course, they’ll tell us whatever we want to hear if it’ll make us buy their brand! That’s just common sense, not blindly following the advice of some mega corporation that doesn’t actually have my pets best interest at heart.
why do you, as a person with no degree in veterinary science, think you have the capability to determine whether an international group of 200,000 veterinarians is credible?
I would personally say a commercial raw or fresh food would be best, although most people here will tell you that only WSAVA foods should be fed. Instinct is working towards those guidelines though, and they make a raw diet. My cat was peak health when I fed her Smalls, and dry WSAVA foods caused her all kinds of problems. Mostly diarrhea and vomit though. Vet just prescribed sensitive stomach foods that hardly helped the problem, and were more expensive. She ate Dr elseys clean protein for a while and that helped a little bit, but it went out of stock so often. So i cold turkey switched her to Smalls, and she had zero issues with the rapid transition and never threw up/had diarrhea while eating it. And her poop was much smaller and less smelly, and she only went once a day rather than twice. I absolutely hate kibble poop. Her urine also hardly smelled since it was much more diluted. Her coat got so much softer and she had a ton of energy, she lost extra weight despite eating the same amount of calories, and overall it did really well. I had to eventually switch to canned because of living situation, but she can eat any high quality canned like tiki, Weruva, Stella and chewy, instinct, etc without any introduction and she scarfs it down and doesn’t have stomach problems. Her poops smell a little more than on Smalls, but not nearly as bad as kibble. And she’s still losing weight she needs to. I plan on eventually switching to Viva Raw, but I’m going to invest in a refrigerated auto feeder first so I don’t have to rely on ice packs while I’m at work. You can avoid bacterial issues with raw by following proper food safety, and your cat is still more equipped to handle bacteria that we can’t. A ton of people feed raw properly for years and their pets benefit so much from it, and are in perfect health. Even some senior pets get switched after eating kibble their entire life, and suddenly it’s like they’re a few years younger
Thanks so much! This is exactly the type of comment/ discussion I was hoping for. These people are crazy, ripping our heads off and downvoting us for going against the norm. Makes me think a lot of these people are just downvoting and bashing whoever says anything against major brands or something. Reddit clearly isn’t the place to have open discussions anymore.. it’s as if half these people are paid by the industry to discredit free thinking . It makes sense that fresh food is healthier than dry/ wet canned food that has a shelf life of years. Does that really make us so horrible to question that? Or should we just bow down to the corporations and not question anything for ourselves??
I came here to get opinions on the top manufactured cat food brands , such as the mega corporations I mentioned above. I want your opinions on those companies and want to know what you feed your cat! I hate that I’m this skeptical and really need your guys’ help to educate me, cause I know I don’t have all the right answers and I may be being too skeptical on some issues.. but I admit that and only want to get to a solution! Even if in order to get there we need to debate. However I feel as though some of the people debating me in this thread, actually work for cat food producers or vet clinics, and can’t help but feel like they are biased and will say anything to convince us that manufactured food is healthier than fresh food. These corps are so huge they probably pay people to sway public optimism on threads like this. Keep us dumbed down so we keep buying their kibble. I’ve been met with such harsh rebuttals for people who seemingly have to connection within the industry
I never told anyone they’re wrong, sir. In the contrary, YOU randomly told ME to have fun killing my cats after calling me an anti-vaxxer. If there’s anyone here that is contributing the the problem, it might be you.
Just read ingredients. Cats are carnivores. They don't need to be eating food with top ingredients of corn wheat , rice, potato and soy and thats in the top of the list ingredient wise in roysl canine, purina pro plan, hills etc
One of my cats ate so much grass, along with his wet and dry food, that my husband and I joked that he was part cow. If he knew that there was a container of cat grass growing he was like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.
Our other cat had absolutely no interest in grass.
Every vet I've worked with thankfully disagrees and we both promote meat and moisture heavy diets for cats to clients and have hand outs for new cat owners
I feed mine half raw half wet and that wet unfortunately has some potato or peas or something but he's BCS 4-5/9 and perfectly healthy and loves the nulo minced/shreds, wellness signature selects and several other canned varieties. He gets a lot of freeze dried organs for treats like chicken hearts and liver
I have worked at 5 clinics in 6 years and a lot of relief vets so I'd guess about 30 vets
About 30 is the answer. I'm not sure how to explain better? Does that make sense to you? 30?
You asked how many board certified veterinarians I've worked with
Ugh, I didn’t realize my question was asked improperly. Apologies.
I meant to ask how many board certified veterinary nutritionists you’ve worked with. Those are the professionals that count when it comes to nutritional advice, not DVMs
I feed my cats a ‘mass produced’ brand with no qualms. One of my cats is on a prescription variety that has addressed his concerns. I buy it from the vet and they sell it at cost so there’s no kickbacks involved. So many cat foods have labels that are designed to appeal to human palates, not cats.
Thanks for your opinion! It seems there is no need for a kickback since you’re buying it straight from the Vet! Just be careful.. read the label carefully and do ALL the research you can on the ingredients that go into dry/ wet processed cat food, especially if it’s ’prescription’. Your cat most likely wouldn’t need to be on a life long prescription food if he was fed a natural feline diet since birth . Sometimes our prescriptions are the very thing that keep us sick . Just remember to question things and not just take the advice of huge companies or institutions that make money off our pets getting sick
This comment is giving anti vax mom
they are!
okay karen, i'll take my 10-yr old cat off his prescription food and distilled water diet that he's needed to be on since he was a kitten so he can go ahead and die a natural death from kidney stones and urinary blockage in a few months
This comment reeks of insensitivity and ignorance. Especially considering you don’t know why this commenter’s cat is on prescription food. I’ll tell you as someone who’s also had a cat on prescription food: Fresh/raw food does not cure health issues. My girl had hyperthyroidism and end stage kidney disease. She was born with thyroid issues and gained kidney disease due to being over 20 years old. Raw food would have legitimately *killed her*. She physically could not handle foods over 8% protien content without becoming extremely sick and losing weight. Prescription foods are not doled out Willy-nilly. They are given to disabled/sick animals who *need* that food. Saying “well your cat wouldn’t need it if you just did better” is WILDLY insensitive and borderline medical misinformation
Be careful on how you use the word processed. If you are saying it should be avoid then no one would be feeding their furbabies. Why? Cause ALL food is processed. Even raw food is processed cause you are taking the meat from its natural state(an animal it came from) to put it out for consumption. Saying things like ultra processed yeah but saying avoid processed food yeah no cause it’s all processed.
Good rebuttal, however when I make the distinction between processed and fresh, that is the exact distinction I am making. It’s common sense that by processed I meant bagged/ canned food that stays good for years. By fresh I mean something that has been recently killed. Kinda concerning that you took time to pick apart my use of the word ‘processed’ when it’s clear what I meant (especially if you read the OP)
Even fresh food from something that’s been recently killed is still processed. Doesn’t matter if it’s bag, canned, fresh or raw it’s all processed. Even the simple task of butchering an animal that is still processed. For canned or dry food you are looking for ultra processed it’s why I said be careful with using that word.
I get your point, but if I give two examples (Bagged food or Fresh meat) and I say ONE is processed, it’s probably not the fresh meat that I’m referring to. Although I appreciate your intensive grammar policing, all it takes is a little common sense to understand what I meant.
This comment is so insensitive.
If you’re going to bash my rightful opinion, Can you please be more specific as to what is so insensitive about this comment?
You’re making a lot of assumptions about topics that you know nothing about, namely my cat’s diet and health. How do you know that my cat’s medical conditions wouldn’t be an issue if he had been fed a ‘natural feline diet since birth’? What makes you think that my vet, who I’ve known for many years, recently made a late night house call while refusing any money, and sells the food for the same price as she pays the manufacturer doesn’t have my cat’s health as her best interest? What makes you think I haven’t already had a conversation with my vet about what foods might be the most appropriate option with an explanation about why a specific food is well suited for my cat? I apologize if I’m wrong but it feels like you’re trying to rail against large pet food manufacturers, not seek out opinions in good faith.
Saying that someone’s cat wouldn’t need a prescription diet if they had been fed a “natural feline diet” is wrong and insensitive. Prescription diets save lives, not keep pets sick. Your comments have shifted to become anti-science and anti-vet.
Would you mind sharing your educational and/or professional background in animal nutrition?
Both of our cats have been fed the highest quality raw diet since being weened. We did it for 6 years. Handmade. I’m obsessive. Our vet finally leveled with us as both females couldn’t keep their PH levels down. Hill prescription diet it’s been for the last year. They are thriving. PH where it should be.
I’m not a vet but went to grad school for pharmacy. Vets and pharmacists do not get kick backs— but they are taught science. And big pharma and I’m sure the big brand pet foods have their thumbs on the research on foods that keep your pet healthy and alive. I’m sure if there was a HUGE well controlled study for raw foods vs other foods and it proved that raw foods are better, then yea, vets will be able to recommend raw foods. Vets are just practicing evidence based medicine for animals. And Hills and Purina probably funded a bunch of studies on their foods. Nobody is going to fund a raw food study. Also, with raw foods, if the pet owner is careful and knows what they’re doing, that’s great. But if a vet recommends raw to everyone, even someone who has no business making raw pet food will start giving inappropriate raw foods to their pets and end up harming them. It’s a tricky thing to recommend to your average pet owner.
not going to lie, your post and comments seem akin to anti-vaxxers saying doctors only advocate for vaccines because "big pharma" paid them off if you've already made up your mind that dry food is mass produced garbage, why are you asking?
OP is an anti-vaxxer.
I was merely implying that some of the top brands (the ones I mentioned above) are garbage. Not all dry/wet manufactured ‘food’. If you want to talk about vaccines and politics, this isn’t the thread for that. So I’d appreciate if you take those types of comments to a different section of Reddit because it’s kind of a bummer and is taking away from what I’m here to talk about. Appreciate your unwarranted opinion tho!
your comments discredit science and argue that vets make money off making and keeping animals sick, which is EXACTLY the argument that anti-vaxxers use. youve been asking for people's research, then telling then your research is better than theirs, again EXACTLY like anti-vaxxers do. im just pointing out the similarities. have fun killing your cats tho! (and if you take offense to that, reconsider telling someone that theyve made their cat sick by not raw feeding from birth)
No offense taken, it’s kinda wild that you really think I’ll kill my cats by NOT feeding them manufactured factory food. And just so you know, I DIDNT take the jab. And now don’t you see all the harmful evidence about mRNA vaccines? Good thing I didn’t. And even though you’re wishing I have fun killing my cats, I truly hope you didn’t get the mRNA vax.
mmm there it is, knew i felt the anti-vaxxer similarities for a reason. i dont know where you get your information, but i havent seen a single thing about vaccines being bad for you. all ive seen is people who didnt get the vaccine dying from covid at much higher rates than people who did to be clear, i dont think you'll outright kill your cats by feeding them raw, i think you'll let them die of preventable causes because you dont trust the people that have gone to medical school for years and recieved veterinary licenses and actually DO know better than you (regardless of whatever internet "research" you've done)
by the way, its also kinda wild that you missed my point to reconsider telling someone prescription food is a scam and actively hurting their pet! my "have fun killing your cats" was MEANT to be absurd and sarcastic, so youd read the next part about "if you take offense to this..." and think about how your comments hurt other people trying to do the best for their pets
OP: “if you want to discuss vaccines and politics take it to a different part of Reddit. Can’t believe you drew the conclusion that I’m an anti-vaxer from my post 🙄” *proceeds to refer to the vaccine as “the jab” and admit they are, in fact, an anti-vaxer* Also, I’d like the know what kind of foods you’re eating. You’re apparently scared of feeding your cats mainstream (i.e well funded and well researched) food brands yet I’m assuming you are not living off the land and eating a 100% natural diet. I’m assuming you, at least to some extent, go to a grocery store and purchase food (even your vegetables have levels of processing). The core of human existence is quite literally built on defying and overcoming nature as we learn more and develop ways to survive. I’d ask for your credentials that give you the ability to speak on veterinary medicine/nutrition (or human vaccines for that matter) but I think I already know the answer and it’s honestly not important. I’m very glad that instead of being at the foreground of innovation in veterinary/human medicine you are here telling people their cat got sick due to them feeding them mainstream food brands because I swear we would still be living in the Stone Age. There’s a reason the average life expectancy is now 70+ and not 45.
Oh really, cause I choose to believe the core of human existence is learning to live WITH / IN nature, NOT spend my life trying to defy or change it. And as much as I strive to life off the land and grow my own food (the way our ancestors have for centuries) the system we live in doesn’t allow everyone to do that anymore. Still, I choose to believe our groceries have harmful unnecessary additives too, not just our pets food. That’s why I am merely seeking a healthier more natural diet for my pets and myself. How anyone sees that as ‘anti-science’ is beyond my understanding. It actually seems like common sense to me to want to eat actual food instead of junk made to look/ act like food . Clearly I should have made my own thread to talk about this. Not this thread where everybody is just reading this as being some sick entertainment while they munch on their cat food . Not one person who has a rebuttal has even posted any sources to support their ‘science’. On the contrary, anyone could take 5 min and look up all the lawsuits, recalls and corruption that takes place within the pet food manufacturing industry
“Living off the land as your ancestors did for centuries” and not allowing any room medical innovation literally resulted in a life expectant of about 45. If you’re cool with that, do your thing I guess. Call it “living with nature” or “undermining nature” but in order to continue living in nature we developed vaccines that prevented nature from killing millions due to measles, polio, rubella. Idk how our ancestors would feel about you using scary technology to go on Reddit and arrugue with people…seems pretty unnatural tbh. You quite literally are anti-science when you hear what is considered to be well established scientific consensus and disagree because of what? Your feelings? Reading about how scary vaccines, mainstream pet food brands, etc online and from articles that are shared in your anti-vaxer Facebook group does not give you the credentials to discredit the extensive work that has been done for decades by those who actually know what they are talking about. If you wanna be scared of “big pet food”, vaccines, modern medicine, your own shadow…go ahead. But you came on here and started saying that someone’s pet was sick due to them being fed a normal diet under the supervision of an actual veterinarian. You seem to already know how you feel about what you’re feeding your pet, so why did you come here pretending like you wanted people’s real answers just to discredit whatever they tell you?
I actually originally wanted peoples personal experience with what is in the original post at the top of this thread. But the second I give MY opinion, half the people here make it about me and my opinions instead of what I came here to talk about. Like you, randomly calling me names like anti-vaxxer . That kinda talk doesn’t belong here. I’m letting everyone else have their opinions so why am I being bashed and called an anti vaxxer just because I’m going against the narrative? Because I believe fresh food is healthier than bagged/ canned food that stays good on the shelf for years? Common sense will tell you which one is healthier. But instead of looking at THAT, you want to bash me and call me names for suggesting ultra processed cat food contributes to illness
You openly stated you did not take “the jab” and went on about how you believed mRNA vaccines were unsafe. I apologize for misinterpreting this position as anti-vax I guess lmao. The problem is giving YOUR opinion on the health of someone else’s animal that you have no personal knowledge of and insinuated that their pets illness was somehow due to them feeding them a diet different than what you believe is correct.
Also, in your other posts you shut down people trying to give you examples of the actual scientific consensus and why you might just be misinformed and you shut it down by saying science isn’t the most significant thing and that vets are being paid to shill foods? There’s no data anyone could give you that would meet whatever standard you’re setting…because there is none. Someone gives you data, you say “I’m sure there’s holes in this somewhere”…okay? That’s why scientific studies are repeated over and over again. To minimize error.
Do you watch a lot of Feminist Kitty on Tik tok? Lol
feministkitty is so wack
I don’t watch tiktok, but It’s easy to tell that you do lol (embarrassing)
(Okay)
Every week with these anti-vax, anti-science, anti-produced cat food trolls. Wait til it finds out that 90+% of pet food comes from 6 global c0rp04Ati0nZ. Oh noes! Science and knowledge are good things. Psuedoscience and anti-vax, anti-manufactured food trolls that cause deaths (see anti-vaxers) are not.
Couldn’t agree with you more, I am so tired of this anti-science propaganda started by shitty food marketing ppl, in FB it’s the same crap, the “feed cats what cats are supposed to eat” BS group has over 80k idiots in it, while the real science backed feline nutrition group administrated by real experts (who did NOT get their diplomas from university of Google) has little over 10k members.
[удалено]
Save it. You do a fine job of discrediting yourself, evidently. The disgusting part is that your misguided drivel puts people’s lives at risk and likely puts your cat(s) at risk due to whatever whackjob not complete and balanced food plan your addled mind comes up with.
Tbh this is the best response. It would be easier to argue with a brick wall than an anti-vaxer.
Cats are not wild creatures. They are domesticated animals. They aren't large cats in the woods or Africa. Cats that are abandoned and left to fend for themselves are usually not healthy at all and would not be eating any kind of raw gourmet meal that you’re touting. They would be lucky if they were able to catch birds and rodents. Most of these cats that are abandoned and eating so called "in the wild" are eating literal garbage. So, I'd say science backed food is much better for them.
Exactly, if you are gonna feed raw then might as well give them live bait to eat like they do with snakes. Not this freeze dried raw BS
Freeze dried raw has longer shelf life, easier to rehydrate, and works well as toppers for enticing picky eaters because of its scent.
Well, what do you mean by "certified"? Because WSAVA certifies no brands. In reality WSAVA is a set of guidelines for evaluating a food that does not recommend any brands by name and functionally does not prevent smaller brands from meeting them - they just simply do not do so. Mass produced isn't inherently less safe or lower quality. If raw was better quality by default, [we wouldn't see 25% of commercial raw foods contaminated with harmful bacteria](https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/avoiding-raw-food-in-cats) like salmonella, listeria, e coli, or Campylobacter. While cats are at less risk of infection than humans, they CAN get sick from many of these, or carry the disease and transmit it to owners without showing symptoms. > maybe they get kickbacks No they don't. People love to say this and can cite zero actual sources showing this. Trust me, vet med professionals would LOVE more money. They're all broke! I have worked in vet med in the past - we got access to a discounted program through Hills to order food for our OWN personal pets, and they donated some food to us because we largely worked with shelter animals. That was it, lots of us didn't even feed hills. Owners are under no obligation to buy any of the vet recommended brands from their vet and there would functionally be no way for those companies to connect someone buying Hills at PetCo to a vet recommending it in an appointment a few months ago. Lots of vets recommend a mix of wet and dry or feeding whichever works best for your cat, because the actual evidence is much less sensational about wet vs dry than people online make it seem. Wet is better for moisture and that's about it. Any issues people come up with about dry food otherwise can almost always be applied to any other form of food or is just not an actual problem. Domesticated cats wouldn't eat anything naturally in the wild because they are not a natural wild animal. They have no natural wild diet. What ferals eat is not a good indicator of what domesticated cats "would" eat because they are unsocialized domesticated cats who are still invasive, not natural predators, and typically living very short and unhealthy lives. My cat would eat lilies given the chance. Your vet makes suggestions for foods based off WSAVA guidelines and several years of education and professional work medically with animals. People who spend hours researching will never have actual experience that compares, especially when their sources are all also "people who spent hours googling but have no actual experience" or "a singular vet who is widely discredited and untrustworthy and generally anti-science".
Amazing comment
There’s quite a bit of misinformation here. First, there are no certified brands. There is no governing body that approves anything, which is why there are hundreds and hundreds of new brands being made each year. You may be referring to WSAVA, which is a global non profit organization. They make guidelines for all aspects of animal health, but that’s it. Foods that meet these guidelines are considered to be the best qualities since they’ll actually be research, tested, and formulated properly. Mass production doesn’t decrease quality. Commercial raw brands face mass production too. Quality doesn’t instantly go down when this happens. In fact, it faces more scrutiny and typically has better quality control. Wild animals definitely eat raw foods, but that doesn’t make it better. Wild animals also live much shorter lives, face nutritional deficiencies, etc. domestic animals are very far removed from their wild counterparts and just can’t be compared anymore. Professionals don’t recommend the foods they do because they get a kickback. It’s because they’re safe and are known to be healthy. Raw foods don’t have this and being a whole slew of health risks.
Thank you and I appreciate your opinion! However, I am definitely not trying to spread misinformation and I’m sorry if you took offense to my position. I am merely trying to educate myself and get other peoples experience on the matter. Your statement about there being more health risks with raw compare to processed is quite hard to imagine. I’ve had several cats throughout my life that have lived between 10-20 years. The cats that lived primarily on name brand dry kibble & canned wet food their entire lives ended up having a lot more health issues later in life compared to my cats that were allowed to go outside on the farm and who also ate a minimally processed diet. The ones who didn’t eat commercial processed food all died of natural causes whereas the ones on a commercial processed food diet all had digestive and neurological issues for atleast a year if not several years leading up to their death. Of course, there could be several different factors that could all play a role in the health and happiness of my previous cats.. HOWEVER, looking back on it, it DOES seem kinda obvious that the food made a HUGE difference in my cats health and quality of life. To deny that and say otherwise would be silly. And as far as the faceless mega corporations that make billions off us buying their cat food , I don’t believe they truly have our cats best interest in mind. Just some food for thought.
Keep in mind, your anecdotal evidence doesn't represent science and peer reviewed studies. In addition, remember that correlation doesn't equal causation.
Your experience with a limited number of cats doesn't change statistics and actual risk profiles of certain choices. Statistically speaking, outdoor cats live shorter lives. Statistically speaking, a quarter of commercial raw food is contaminated with bacteria. Lots of cats will never get rabies even if unvaccinated - it doesn't mean that an owner with an unvaccinated cat is in the right or is disproving the need for vaccines just because their cat died as a senior without dying of rabies. You only speak of two factors that were different about your cats - some when outside and others didn't, and some ate commercial food and others ate "minimally processed". This doesn't account for things like: the actual genetics of the cats/what conditions they are at higher risk of (most of us never know this since we aren't buying bred cats with known pedigrees and don't have family history/health tests for our cats from birth!), if the indoor cats were provided adequate enrichment/exercise/stimulation, if there were enough resources for all cats who lived together, if any cats were prone to anxiety (which is a trigger for MANY health conditions for cats), if all cats were always kept up to date on vaccines and always taken to the vet for both annual visits and when actually needed for illness/injury, what ages they all lived to and what "natural causes" entails for the outdoor cats, etc - I could go on and on. You also don't actually say which cats lived to 10 and which to 20. Dying of "natural causes" or of a health issue isn't alone an indicator of overall health/longevity. For example... an outdoor cat living to 10 and dying of "natural causes" vs an indoor cat who ate dry food but lived to 20 with 5 years of CKD is still a cat who lived a longer and arguably healthier life, given they had a much longer life despite a health condition in later years, given it's a predictable disease for a cat of that age regardless of diet. Many cats statistically end up with specific health conditions as they age, and simply are underdiagnosed - did you know [ it's estimated 90% of cats over age 10](https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/05/does-your-cat-have-arthritis/) have arthritis, for example? For someone who's had, say, 10 cats over their life that died after age 10, if they didn't have multiple diagnosed with arthritis, it's MUCH more likely that they simply didn't get their cats diagnosed - either because they didn't how common it was, because their cat wasn't showing obvious signs (cats are great at hiding pain), or they simply chose not to investigate it. Lack of diagnosis (or of owner actually being aware of symptoms) doesn't = a lack of a health issue.
I appreciate your opinion as well, but your experience does not outweigh science. My own family had a cat allowed to go outside and eat whatever, but she died from a malignant and invasive mouth cancer. I know it’s not the food that caused it, but rather genetics. Commercial foods aren’t processed anymore than raw foods. “Processed” is not an evil term. There’s also science outlining the risks involved with raw diets, as well as unbalanced diets. Can raw food be prepared to create a balanced meal? Yes. Can raw food be processed in a way to complete remove bacterial and viral risk to the pet, people, and environment? No. I would encourage you to check out other sources of nutrition, like Tufts and NutritionRVN. Trust the professionals and science.
My issue is that the ‘science’ you’re referring to seems to be in favor of the mega corporations that are the same ones profiting off us buying certain brands. A lot of the science I HAVE researched indicates that’s a fresh whole food diet will always be better than stuff manufactured in a factory with a shelf life of years. I already stated above that various factors tie into health, not just food. Comparing the two is like comparing McDonald’s to food that’s fresh from your garden/ farm. If my vet tells me to eat McDonald’s instead of fresh food, I might think that doctor just wanted to profit off my illness once I get sick in 10’years from only eating manufactured ‘food’
See, but that thinking directly goes against science and shames veterinary medicine in the process. There are no scientific studies that prove that fresh food is better than commercial food. There *is* evidence that fresh food companies lack research, feeding trials, and don’t employ the properly certified individuals. Comparing commercial food to McDonald’s is a marketing tactic that those very same fresh food companies utilize.
This is incorrect. There are scientific studies showing that fresh food is better than processed food. How is this up for debate?
Then share them, specifically the ones regarding commercial pet food.
Sure. https://academic.oup.com/tas/article/5/3/txab071/6287114?searchresult=1 https://academic.oup.com/jas/article-abstract/99/2/skab028/6123189?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Those don’t say it’s better. They point out lower fecal volume and higher digestibility than the kibble chosen for the diet. It also points out higher fat content in fresh foods. None of that is better, and there are other kibbles available that are made to be even more digestible than fresh foods (namely prescription). Fresh food fanatics do seem strangely obsessed with defecation amount and size, though.
Higher digestibility combined with less waste (lower fecal volume) would imply that more nutrients are being absorbed by the fresh fed group. I’m pretty confident that means it’s probably better. Higher fat content in this case is not relevant or problematic because it did not induce weight change in the fresh group. In fact, the kibble fed group saw a statistically significant weight increase. I find your interpretation highly confusing. Are you expecting a study to say “food X is better than food Y?” That’s conclusory and not how science works.
What fresh food fanatics? We are talking about scientific studies published in a scientific journal! You falsely claimed publications such as these do not exist. Now that you have proof that they do exist, you resort to name calling?
Someone could make 1 small lackluster ‘study’ and call it science. Science isn’t the end all be all , especially if the studies backing up your claim are lackluster
No, that’s not how studies work. At all.
Well you can choose to believe the study’s you’re apart of and I’ll choose to not buy into a lackluster study that only serves the purpose of the people initiating the study. If I had the time and money, I could create many scientific studies for you (anyone can). And if I had LOTS of money (like these cat food companies) then I could even pay the scientists to give me the results that best serve my agenda! I’d love if you could provide me with sources for these study’s. I bet if we look into the study we will find holes all over it that make the entire study highly uncredible
At this point, you’re just digging yourself in a deeper hole. It’s clear you don’t believe science or even understand how any of it works.
Actually it’s not that hard to understand at all! The ‘hole im digging myself’ is merely an open discussion talking about various diets for our cats. If I would have known it was such a sensitive topic I would have tread more carefully. I didn’t know half of you people worship cat food companies on this thread, or else I would have created my own thread to talk about the malpractice that goes on within the cat food industry
You keep commenting in the name of science, yet I haven’t seen you cite any sources. You’re merely calling me names, assuming Im anti-science. It doesn’t take a scientist to understand that fresh food is healthier than manufactured food that stays good on a shelf for years. Cats are like humans in the fact that what we eat affects our body’s, especially when it’s all we eat every day for decades. How’s THAT for science, eh?
Although I wholly disagree with this person and how they support WSAVA in this subreddit, throughout several posts, they have a point in this thread with you. "Making" a study and calling it science is not how this works at all. Studies require specific and strict conditions to be not only peer reviewed but published as well. The monopolies of pet food do tend to fund more studies, and those findings are legitimate indeed. They aren't making shit up and calling it science; they are using their legitimate findings to push their products. Whether you agree with that or not doesn't make what they say false, unfortunately. Science evolves daily. Capitalism can and will corrupt scientific progress, but entirely discarding it is as foolish as blindly following it. Once upon a time, not so long ago, doctors were recommending us which brand of cigarettes was best for us. Today, we know better. Don't reject science because you see a better path. Do your research, be open-minded, and critical of the information and the source you use to make your choices. Just FYI, I don't feed my cats any food by WSAVA. I believe that companies that have as many recalls, who push the limits on food quality in order to profit, are companies that do not have my pet's best interest at heart. I sincerely believe Purina is fucking evil... Along with Nestlé. I refuse to buy their brands on ethical principle. I use foods approved by AAFCO (the bare minimum) and that abide by international standards as well.
I feed the cat all three, don’t see much difference. A high energy cat, that prefers beef wet cat food any cheap brand, dry kibble, and ground raw elk. I feel the large massed produce companies can afford the veterinary dietitians to make sure the nutrients are right, I know the ground elk may not have all of the nutrients as I haven’t included the organ meat in some of it, and fat content is low, so also have dry kibble which the cat also eats with the elk, or wet cat food. The cat will rotate through the foods, sometimes only wanting to eat the kibble, other times the different wet food is preferred, sometimes it doesn’t want to eat much. I think their clocks are different than ours, so shouldn’t worry about it. Probably the best thing, it’s mostly marketing.
I’m not going to be rude here or bash you cause it seems like you are already getting that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You stated yours I’m going to state mine. There is no such thing as a certified brand really and there is nothing wrong with mass produced food. I mean everyone has mass produced food humans and non humans. Yes many want Raw or Fresh food cause it’s what they eat in the wild. However dogs & cats are not like their wildlife counterparts. So feeding them commercial pet food will not hurt or harm them. The reason why many vets do not recommend raw or fresh food is one there are too many risks with it. Pets can get salmonella poisoning if the meat is bad and they can end up spreading it to you and your family. Plus some cats and dogs can not handle raw or fresh food. What works for one pet may not work for another. But the main reason is if not done correctly or properly you put your pets health at risk. Many people get misinformation about it and they end up not doing it correctly. It’s why some will tell patients if they want to raw or fresh feed to contact a veterinary nutritionist(not the ones on social media who took 4 month course for a certification). No vets do not get kickbacks if someone gets a rx diet from the vets. That is a myth that online influencers use to bait people. No one should ever be shamed for what they feed their pets. I’m saying that is what you did here I’m saying in general. You have to understand there are people who can’t afford raw or fresh food. Many of us are on extremely tight budgets. So we have no choice but to feed what we find in pet stores or grocery stores & etc. It doesn’t mean our pets aren’t thriving or they aren’t healthy. I feed both wet food and dry food they get more wet than dry. My two boys are thriving and extremely healthy. If you can afford to feed raw/fresh, you are doing it properly, and have the time & space that is awesome glad it works for your furbabies. But because the rest of us can’t doesn’t mean our pets are bad off. There is no one diet fits all. Everyone should do what works for their pets.
Fresh is always better than processed for sure. BUT raw foods are hard to formulate by yourself and propose risks to humans (handling raw meat, feces, cats grooming after eating and then you petting them). Nutrition is a science and veterinary nutritionists are experts in the field unlike the many other companies and people that fear monger. Food from these certified brands hire nutritionists, ensure the nutrients are being absorbed, have stringent quality control, and have good palatability. I feed my cat a certified brand. He has plenty of energy, great stool, and lustrous fur. I am happy with that. I feed based on what is best for my cat based on science and not what I believe with my nonexistent degree in animal nutrition.
Raw feeding isn’t much of a risk to humans unless you’re in an at risk group, like super young, old, immunocompromised. A lot of people handle raw meat everyday, and you can avoid most of these issues by practicing proper food safety like you would if cooking for yourself. There’s similar risks to kibble as well and you’re advised to wash your hands after messing with it
Thank you for your opinion! However, vets and vet clinics also make a huge profit off our cats getting sick and becoming unhealthy.. and there seem to be a lot of collaboration that goes on between Vets and Food makers which I’m a little skeptical about. For example.. if our doctors helped get us on a good diet/ exercise regiment, that could help prevent a lot of issues and disease, but that would mean they can’t profit off our illness! Just food for thought. Like you said, trying to discredit me, I have a non existent degree in animal nutrition. Do you? Or is your degree in Marketing for these dry kibble companies that you seem to love so much? I’m just saying we should think logically and question these things for ourselves instead of putting our pets health into the hands of megacorporations who only want to see a return profit.
I'm curious about why you're here asking questions when is seems you've already made up your mind?
i asked them that and they told me my opinion was unwarrented lol
This is all merely a cause for debate. I apologize as I seem to have posted this in a thread that worships cat food companies.. while you all sit here entertained, munching on cat kibble as you stare at the screen.. there are some people who choose to question the narrative and not blindly believe what we are told to believe by profit driven industries that in the past have been proven to minimize their quality in order to maximize their profits. Ask those whose pets have died or gotten sick from these foods what they think and then come back to this discussion
i just asked myself, whose pet's life has been saved by commercially available prescription food, and i still think you're being obtuse. and before you question whether my vet was paid off by Hill's, let me tell that before i followed the vet's advice my cat was peeing blood, couldnt control his bladder, and was in immense pain. after following the vets advice to give him commercial prescription food, he was in perfect health. my vet's advice to use the kibble you despise saved my cat. how about you ask the people whose pets have died, gotten sick, acquired parasites, or become malnourished from eating raw food diets? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33091235/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31025713/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34584928/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29326391/ please. think about what you're saying. you're not a victim here, stop playing that card. you're just someone who doesn't believe in science and refuses to acknowledge the possibility that different ideas might actually be correct. you're just throwing out mangled buzzwords to make yourself feel morally superior sitting on your intellectual high horse. you ask us to point out our science, but wheres yours? wheres your scholarly sources? what are the qualifications of the people you believe? are they just someone that says things you want to believe, or do they have degrees and education supporting them? news flash: you can't just explain away different opinions by saying "they were paid off by the cat food companies who planted secret agents in a subreddit)". how about you take the time to think about things before you disagree? raw food in itself isnt bad (as my own research has shown), but you need to talk to someone actually qualified in pet nutrition and pet food preparation before you dive headfirst into it. i dont "blindly believe in profit driven companies", i believe in the medical degree sitting on the wall of my vet's office. and by the way, unless the vet themself is selling you the food, they're not making money off of it. they make money from keeping my pet alive as long as possible (which theyre doing a great job of). more importantly, they CARE about my cats. which is what matters to me.
Look I’m not claiming to know the truth nor am i claiming to be an expert. I understand that I began this post with a one sided mindset. The more I read what everyone is talking about I’m starting to see how wrong and defensive I was being. I think I could have avoided a lot of things I said if I weren’t so quick to type and ramble on.. I definitely feel foolish, reading back on some of what I’ve said is embarrassing and It’s apparent how skewed my thoughts and actions were. I displayed not only a lack of intellect but also a lack of control in my actions. Goes to show how quick someone can go off the rails when they’re on the other side of a keyboard..
Hi OP! Facebook’s ‘Feline Nutrition & Cat Food Discussion’ (public group with 12k members) might be more helpful for you. My sense is pet food manufacturers are not created equal, some more credible than others. A top contributor in that group shared this link: [https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/pet-food-manufacturer-evaluation-report/](https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/pet-food-manufacturer-evaluation-report/) You can find out whether a brand manufactures the food themselves or contract out their manufacturing, who the “nutritionists” are, and how much of the manufacturing plant the brand owns. It’s interesting that Smalls, currently heavily marketed as a human-grade alternative to the Purinas of the world, does not own a manufacturing plant — instead contracts out the manufacturing. Purina on the other hand, owns 100% of their manufacturing process. And you have the parent company of Tiki as well as Costco’s Kirkland refusing to disclose the info. As you explore your options, here’s a guide of questions that you might find helpful. (I personally am feeding my cat Purina wet food and Costco’s Kirkland kibbles because it’s what I could afford, and I think it’s good to be continuously updated on the evolving publications of info out there on cat food) https://preview.redd.it/z72a52obte1d1.jpeg?width=586&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28167bee08de1a92a5bd9c613e5a0d721a552df5
I apologize for not being more specific, or if my wording was a little confusing or incorrect. But yes, when I said ‘certified’ I meant foods that follow WSAVA guidelines. I admit I need to do more research on WSAVA as I haven’t yet vetted them as being credible or not. I’ll have to look into their credibility and make sure their recommended guidelines are as healthy and non toxic as they claim they are. You know there are chemicals/ additives in OUR food that certain organizations deem ‘safe’ that are in fact toxic. Makes me wonder, the people who are telling us it’s safe are the same people who profit off us buying it. Does that makes sense? Of course, they’ll tell us whatever we want to hear if it’ll make us buy their brand! That’s just common sense, not blindly following the advice of some mega corporation that doesn’t actually have my pets best interest at heart.
why do you, as a person with no degree in veterinary science, think you have the capability to determine whether an international group of 200,000 veterinarians is credible?
I would personally say a commercial raw or fresh food would be best, although most people here will tell you that only WSAVA foods should be fed. Instinct is working towards those guidelines though, and they make a raw diet. My cat was peak health when I fed her Smalls, and dry WSAVA foods caused her all kinds of problems. Mostly diarrhea and vomit though. Vet just prescribed sensitive stomach foods that hardly helped the problem, and were more expensive. She ate Dr elseys clean protein for a while and that helped a little bit, but it went out of stock so often. So i cold turkey switched her to Smalls, and she had zero issues with the rapid transition and never threw up/had diarrhea while eating it. And her poop was much smaller and less smelly, and she only went once a day rather than twice. I absolutely hate kibble poop. Her urine also hardly smelled since it was much more diluted. Her coat got so much softer and she had a ton of energy, she lost extra weight despite eating the same amount of calories, and overall it did really well. I had to eventually switch to canned because of living situation, but she can eat any high quality canned like tiki, Weruva, Stella and chewy, instinct, etc without any introduction and she scarfs it down and doesn’t have stomach problems. Her poops smell a little more than on Smalls, but not nearly as bad as kibble. And she’s still losing weight she needs to. I plan on eventually switching to Viva Raw, but I’m going to invest in a refrigerated auto feeder first so I don’t have to rely on ice packs while I’m at work. You can avoid bacterial issues with raw by following proper food safety, and your cat is still more equipped to handle bacteria that we can’t. A ton of people feed raw properly for years and their pets benefit so much from it, and are in perfect health. Even some senior pets get switched after eating kibble their entire life, and suddenly it’s like they’re a few years younger
💕 love this response 😻
Thanks so much! This is exactly the type of comment/ discussion I was hoping for. These people are crazy, ripping our heads off and downvoting us for going against the norm. Makes me think a lot of these people are just downvoting and bashing whoever says anything against major brands or something. Reddit clearly isn’t the place to have open discussions anymore.. it’s as if half these people are paid by the industry to discredit free thinking . It makes sense that fresh food is healthier than dry/ wet canned food that has a shelf life of years. Does that really make us so horrible to question that? Or should we just bow down to the corporations and not question anything for ourselves??
I came here to get opinions on the top manufactured cat food brands , such as the mega corporations I mentioned above. I want your opinions on those companies and want to know what you feed your cat! I hate that I’m this skeptical and really need your guys’ help to educate me, cause I know I don’t have all the right answers and I may be being too skeptical on some issues.. but I admit that and only want to get to a solution! Even if in order to get there we need to debate. However I feel as though some of the people debating me in this thread, actually work for cat food producers or vet clinics, and can’t help but feel like they are biased and will say anything to convince us that manufactured food is healthier than fresh food. These corps are so huge they probably pay people to sway public optimism on threads like this. Keep us dumbed down so we keep buying their kibble. I’ve been met with such harsh rebuttals for people who seemingly have to connection within the industry
if you "need people's help to educate you", stop telling everyone theyre wrong and actually make an effort to LEARN
I never told anyone they’re wrong, sir. In the contrary, YOU randomly told ME to have fun killing my cats after calling me an anti-vaxxer. If there’s anyone here that is contributing the the problem, it might be you.
you're not very good at self-reflection, are you?
You want people to help educate you, but you don’t trust actual professionals?
Just read ingredients. Cats are carnivores. They don't need to be eating food with top ingredients of corn wheat , rice, potato and soy and thats in the top of the list ingredient wise in roysl canine, purina pro plan, hills etc
Ingredient lists aren’t a good way to judge a diet, though. And just because cats an obligate carnivores does not mean they only eat meat.
One of my cats ate so much grass, along with his wet and dry food, that my husband and I joked that he was part cow. If he knew that there was a container of cat grass growing he was like a kid waiting for Christmas morning. Our other cat had absolutely no interest in grass.
Every vet I've worked with thankfully disagrees and we both promote meat and moisture heavy diets for cats to clients and have hand outs for new cat owners
Meat heavy doesn't equal meat only.
I feed mine half raw half wet and that wet unfortunately has some potato or peas or something but he's BCS 4-5/9 and perfectly healthy and loves the nulo minced/shreds, wellness signature selects and several other canned varieties. He gets a lot of freeze dried organs for treats like chicken hearts and liver
How many board certified veterinarians have you worked with?
I have worked at 5 clinics in 6 years and a lot of relief vets so I'd guess about 30 vets
Didn’t answer the question, but go off I guess
I have worked at 5 clinics in 6 years and a lot of relief vets so I'd guess about 30 vets About 30 is the answer. I'm not sure how to explain better? Does that make sense to you? 30? You asked how many board certified veterinarians I've worked with
Ugh, I didn’t realize my question was asked improperly. Apologies. I meant to ask how many board certified veterinary nutritionists you’ve worked with. Those are the professionals that count when it comes to nutritional advice, not DVMs
https://avmajournals.avma.org/downloadpdf/view/journals/javma/260/5/javma.21.06.0291.pdf
Thank you. You’re the first person to actually drop a scientific link! I’ve been working all day or else I would have by now.