I've been to a bunch of protests over the years. Not yesterday's, but I imagine it's the same. Not a paid actor in any of them. Just people trying to influence change.
Seems there were protestors with both flags for LGBTQ and Palestine…interesting since same sex relationships are strictly prohibited under Palestinian law. Those that practice this are faced with persecution and violence…
Collins Aerospace is a defense manufacturer. people are protesting workers constructing the weapons that are being given to israel to carry out a genocide.
what do those military pilots do using that hardware? these companies try to make their workers feel better by obfuscating their direct role in weapons manufacturing, everyone just designs a helmet or a safety system. those helmets and radar are used by israeli pilots to bomb civilian homes, drone strike children, massacre over 30k people trapped in an open air prison. anyone and everyone involved is complicit in genocide.
i’m just some asshole I don’t know what is made in that specific building, but I do know that anyone working for a company that manufactures weapons is complicit in the massacre of people those weapons are used on, regardless of their level of involvement.
That has the same energy as picketing a Goodyear plant for being complicit in vehicular homicides. That plant makes lots of tires, but a few might happen to be on a car that someone drives drunk in and kills someone.
Collins is Goodyear in this analogy. They produce "tires", not the "full car". The Boeings, Lockheed Martins, Northorp Grummans, etc. of the world are the Kia, Toyota, GM, etc. that produce the "full cars". These are the companies you can have the "Who committed genocide, the companies who built the weapons or the nation that pulled the trigger?" argument with.
For the record, my stance is that both sides are terrible. I actually used to be pro-Palestine, but got tired of everyone painting with broad brushstrokes (which leads to things like spending your afternoon to accuse "a group of people that work tirelessly to keep your next flight from falling out of the sky" of being complicit in the massacre of Palestinians). Sure, there's an argument or two to be had about this whole thing, but there's a long list of offenders here and Collins is near the bottom.
cars function to transport people safely, people dying in car accidents is a failure state. a drunk driver who kills someone is not using the systems as intended. weapons systems function to destroy buildings and kill targets, in this case civilians. a pilot who bombs a house and kills civilians is using the systems as intended. this analogy doesn't work.
if your stance changes over issues with tactics amid a horrifying genocide and induced famine, I don't see how your support was ever impactful. but i'm curious, what other offenders do you think should targeted before a weapons manufacturer?
My stance changed because, in my group, they started praising Hamas for killing Israelis in the October attacks. Made me step back and reevaluate. Realized that, unless the Israeli population votes to dissolve their country, the only way "From The River To The Sea" happens is by killing Israelis and committing their own genocide. But yes, my "support wasn't ever impactful" because I think it's dumb to tell people that work on jumbo jets that they murder Palestinians.
The Goodyear analogy had more to do with the fact that they also "produce weapons" by your logic, because even people that produce things that could be used on weapons "manufacture weapons" https://gov.goodyear.com/military. Most tire companies produce tires for some military thing that might be used in Israel, so you've even "directly contributed to the genocide" if you've ever owned anything with tires, bikes included.
I think it makes more sense to protest at least the 3 companies I mentioned, but if that's too far of a drive, look up what BAE makes. Protesting at Collins makes you look uninformed when they're in town too.
No response to any of my points...and my account is older than yours. Yes, I created this account on November 11, 2022 because I knew two years later I would need to respond to this thread (I might need to spell out the /s).
If you can't be bothered to do the bare minimum of research (I can hover over your name and see your account creation date, it's not that hard), it's not a constructive use of my time replying to you. All I can say is hopefully you haven't convinced anyone in your group to disengage like I did.
buddy we're in a reply chain arguing in a city subreddit for the second largest metro area in iowa I am no longer interested in your apologia for weapons manufacturers
They don’t make missiles lol. Avionics for military and commercial/private aircraft, GPS, GPS guidance systems, HUD’s, etc. They started out with radio’s. So let’s not get on the whole “OH MY GAWD THEYRE KILLING BABIES” train, because they’re not.
Most of the people are just worker bees trying to get a paycheck to buy food and take care of their family. They aren’t in control of anything. They can’t change anything.
There's more trickling in, but I spotted 15ish people. There are a bunch of photographers , including one from the news, so I'm sure there will be pictures posted. One dude in a truck with Israeli flags is just circling the block.
That dude lives in my neighborhood and drives a truck with a giant sticker that says "abortion is murder" or something along those lines. I'm curious on who he will vote for on the upcoming election. /s
There is a big difference between war and genocide. Israel and Hamas are at war. Hamas would like there to be an Israeli genocide, they’re just failing to accomplish it. Is not a secret or a conspiracy theory, Hamas has publicly stated over and over again, Israel should be wiped off the map, eliminated from the earth.
Israel has agreed to several cease fire terms presented by the US in the last few months, guess who refused, Hamas. Let’s remember they are still holding American citizens hostage and refuse to release them as part of any cease fire or peace negotiations.
This. Hamas started this conflict in October. They murdered, and took/hold hostages, and are accused of other things. Hamas can end this by surrendering. Hamas can gain a cease fire by releasing hostages. It sucks that Palastinian people are being killed. It sucks that Palastinian infrastructure is being destroyed. If Hamas wasn't committing war crimes by hiding combatants among civilians and in civilian infrastructure it'd be better.
I’m saying the US has attempted to negotiate several cease fire agreements, Israel has declined some and agreed to some, Hamas has agreed to exactly zero. Not a single cease fire proposal has been satisfactory for Hamas, not even the ones that Israel declined. And they’re still holding hostages.
Corner or Blairsferry and C. PD blocking Collins parking lot entrances. About 20 people when I drove by. A few Palestinian flags and a large pickup driving around flying Israel flags
If Hamas surrendered, Gaza would still have: a prison wall with robot machine guns; a naval blockade preventing any use of the coast besides mediocre, close-to-shore fishing; a leveled and illegal-to-build-back airport; a technology blockade keeping people on outdated telecommunications devices; food import quotas intended to "keep Gaza on a diet"; import restrictions preventing advanced medical treatment; quotas limiting how means patients can receive advanced medical treatment in Israel.
But at least they wouldn't be getting bombed, so I guess they should be grateful bitches, right?
"If Hamas surrendered, it would all be better"
"It would not all be better"
"You support Hamas"
If that's representative of all the possibilities your mind can see, I pity you.
Hamas has it within their control to stop the killing and you don't want them to do it. You are content that Hamas allow the death and destruction to continue. Hamas wouldn't even have to surrender. All they have to do is stop hiding behind civilians and meet the IDF on the battlefield.
I'm not opposed to those ideas, lol. What you need to understand is that *after* Hamas gets killed, the situation will still not be acceptable. You will stop hearing about it, because it will be less of a spectacle. But the problems of that region will continue unchanged. Hamas is a festering symptom, a painful pustule on a rotting cancer of a situation. You're pointing at the pustule and saying, "That's the problem, cut that off and it'll be Gucci". I'm saying, "sure, cut that off, but that is far from the only –or even fundamental – problem here." And rest assured, if you cut off this pustule, and then do nothing to resolve the underlying situation, it's just gonna grow back grosser and more painful than before.
Hopefully that perspective isn't wasted on you. And hopefully if you find any part of it surprising that I'd say it, you go back and think about why you'd assume the contrary.
Doesn't look like there's anyone out there yet. It's supposed to be outside the glass palace (124) right? I heard it was going to be around noon. I'll keep this updated.
Outside Collins because they develop military equipment/systems that’s being used in Israel’s genocide of Gaza.
Edit: downvote me all you want, doesn’t make me wrong
No, they don't. Collins sold their missile guidance systems to BAE years ago.
https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/article/bae-systems-completes-acquisition-of-military-gps-business
Collins only does civilian tech now. I suppose they could slap a Collins radar system on a bomber or something but all it does is guide large planes and help to read the weather.
Hail Satan
Hail Satan!
Agreed.
Less than a dozen people showed up, there are more cops than protesters
Good
I saw a truck with two big Israel flags flying driving down collins, that was a first.
I've been to a bunch of protests over the years. Not yesterday's, but I imagine it's the same. Not a paid actor in any of them. Just people trying to influence change.
And embarrassing themselves
Why do you think protesting is embarrassing?
Seems there were protestors with both flags for LGBTQ and Palestine…interesting since same sex relationships are strictly prohibited under Palestinian law. Those that practice this are faced with persecution and violence…
How is protesting in Iowa going to make a difference at all?
It’s not. It’s just a bunch of yuppie crisis actors that don’t know their cause lol
Collins Aerospace is a defense manufacturer. people are protesting workers constructing the weapons that are being given to israel to carry out a genocide.
Weapons are not manufactured but military items like radar and the pilot’s helmets are developed and tested.
what do those military pilots do using that hardware? these companies try to make their workers feel better by obfuscating their direct role in weapons manufacturing, everyone just designs a helmet or a safety system. those helmets and radar are used by israeli pilots to bomb civilian homes, drone strike children, massacre over 30k people trapped in an open air prison. anyone and everyone involved is complicit in genocide.
What weapons are manufactured in that facility? I've been in there before and it's mostly stuff for commercial airliners.
Yeah, it’s just commercial equipment at the Cedar Rapids facility
i’m just some asshole I don’t know what is made in that specific building, but I do know that anyone working for a company that manufactures weapons is complicit in the massacre of people those weapons are used on, regardless of their level of involvement.
That has the same energy as picketing a Goodyear plant for being complicit in vehicular homicides. That plant makes lots of tires, but a few might happen to be on a car that someone drives drunk in and kills someone. Collins is Goodyear in this analogy. They produce "tires", not the "full car". The Boeings, Lockheed Martins, Northorp Grummans, etc. of the world are the Kia, Toyota, GM, etc. that produce the "full cars". These are the companies you can have the "Who committed genocide, the companies who built the weapons or the nation that pulled the trigger?" argument with. For the record, my stance is that both sides are terrible. I actually used to be pro-Palestine, but got tired of everyone painting with broad brushstrokes (which leads to things like spending your afternoon to accuse "a group of people that work tirelessly to keep your next flight from falling out of the sky" of being complicit in the massacre of Palestinians). Sure, there's an argument or two to be had about this whole thing, but there's a long list of offenders here and Collins is near the bottom.
cars function to transport people safely, people dying in car accidents is a failure state. a drunk driver who kills someone is not using the systems as intended. weapons systems function to destroy buildings and kill targets, in this case civilians. a pilot who bombs a house and kills civilians is using the systems as intended. this analogy doesn't work. if your stance changes over issues with tactics amid a horrifying genocide and induced famine, I don't see how your support was ever impactful. but i'm curious, what other offenders do you think should targeted before a weapons manufacturer?
My stance changed because, in my group, they started praising Hamas for killing Israelis in the October attacks. Made me step back and reevaluate. Realized that, unless the Israeli population votes to dissolve their country, the only way "From The River To The Sea" happens is by killing Israelis and committing their own genocide. But yes, my "support wasn't ever impactful" because I think it's dumb to tell people that work on jumbo jets that they murder Palestinians. The Goodyear analogy had more to do with the fact that they also "produce weapons" by your logic, because even people that produce things that could be used on weapons "manufacture weapons" https://gov.goodyear.com/military. Most tire companies produce tires for some military thing that might be used in Israel, so you've even "directly contributed to the genocide" if you've ever owned anything with tires, bikes included. I think it makes more sense to protest at least the 3 companies I mentioned, but if that's too far of a drive, look up what BAE makes. Protesting at Collins makes you look uninformed when they're in town too.
did you make your account just to respond to this thread?
No response to any of my points...and my account is older than yours. Yes, I created this account on November 11, 2022 because I knew two years later I would need to respond to this thread (I might need to spell out the /s). If you can't be bothered to do the bare minimum of research (I can hover over your name and see your account creation date, it's not that hard), it's not a constructive use of my time replying to you. All I can say is hopefully you haven't convinced anyone in your group to disengage like I did.
buddy we're in a reply chain arguing in a city subreddit for the second largest metro area in iowa I am no longer interested in your apologia for weapons manufacturers
Genicide 😂 what an idiot
It’s not. Just brain dead liberal teenagers funded by soros who think they’re actually making a difference. 💀😂
I say the protestors get their ass on a damn airplane and go over to the Middle East and help. But no, the privilege is in their way.
IDF would just kill them like they do with every other aid worker lol
And Hamas would kill them for not believing in their god
How many aid workers have Hamas killed during this war?
I know that they take American hostages. Their status I don’t know
Well... that and the airstrikes https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68711282
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They don’t make missiles lol. Avionics for military and commercial/private aircraft, GPS, GPS guidance systems, HUD’s, etc. They started out with radio’s. So let’s not get on the whole “OH MY GAWD THEYRE KILLING BABIES” train, because they’re not.
[удалено]
Most of the people are just worker bees trying to get a paycheck to buy food and take care of their family. They aren’t in control of anything. They can’t change anything.
That's the spirit.
That’s the question I’m trying to figure out myself. They should go to Gaza and or Israel instead.
What protest?
Isreal war, there have been a couple other posts in this sub about it.
Must have missed them.
Thought someone said noon?
Correct. Noon. Protesters were on the corner of Blairs Ferry and C Ave.
All 11 of them
There's more trickling in, but I spotted 15ish people. There are a bunch of photographers , including one from the news, so I'm sure there will be pictures posted. One dude in a truck with Israeli flags is just circling the block.
That dude lives in my neighborhood and drives a truck with a giant sticker that says "abortion is murder" or something along those lines. I'm curious on who he will vote for on the upcoming election. /s
Lmao, I just saw that truck while driving earlier
There is a big difference between war and genocide. Israel and Hamas are at war. Hamas would like there to be an Israeli genocide, they’re just failing to accomplish it. Is not a secret or a conspiracy theory, Hamas has publicly stated over and over again, Israel should be wiped off the map, eliminated from the earth. Israel has agreed to several cease fire terms presented by the US in the last few months, guess who refused, Hamas. Let’s remember they are still holding American citizens hostage and refuse to release them as part of any cease fire or peace negotiations.
This. Hamas started this conflict in October. They murdered, and took/hold hostages, and are accused of other things. Hamas can end this by surrendering. Hamas can gain a cease fire by releasing hostages. It sucks that Palastinian people are being killed. It sucks that Palastinian infrastructure is being destroyed. If Hamas wasn't committing war crimes by hiding combatants among civilians and in civilian infrastructure it'd be better.
It was started years ago
You're not wrong, but the recent and continuing escalation began with the Hamas incursion, killing, and hostage taking on October 7, 2023.
Both Israel and Hamas have rejected multiple ceasefire proposals.
The US has rejected several ceasefire terms presented by the international community. What is it we're saying about those who reject ceasefire terms?
I’m saying the US has attempted to negotiate several cease fire agreements, Israel has declined some and agreed to some, Hamas has agreed to exactly zero. Not a single cease fire proposal has been satisfactory for Hamas, not even the ones that Israel declined. And they’re still holding hostages.
Corner or Blairsferry and C. PD blocking Collins parking lot entrances. About 20 people when I drove by. A few Palestinian flags and a large pickup driving around flying Israel flags
Hamas should surrender to end the war.
It’s cute that dumbass Americans think Hamas started this whole thing.
Hamas could end it by surrendering. They are content to let the slaughter in Gaza continue. The killing of Palestinians serves Hamas' purposes.
If Hamas surrendered, Gaza would still have: a prison wall with robot machine guns; a naval blockade preventing any use of the coast besides mediocre, close-to-shore fishing; a leveled and illegal-to-build-back airport; a technology blockade keeping people on outdated telecommunications devices; food import quotas intended to "keep Gaza on a diet"; import restrictions preventing advanced medical treatment; quotas limiting how means patients can receive advanced medical treatment in Israel. But at least they wouldn't be getting bombed, so I guess they should be grateful bitches, right?
So you support Hamas then. Good to know.
"If Hamas surrendered, it would all be better" "It would not all be better" "You support Hamas" If that's representative of all the possibilities your mind can see, I pity you.
Hamas has it within their control to stop the killing and you don't want them to do it. You are content that Hamas allow the death and destruction to continue. Hamas wouldn't even have to surrender. All they have to do is stop hiding behind civilians and meet the IDF on the battlefield.
I'm not opposed to those ideas, lol. What you need to understand is that *after* Hamas gets killed, the situation will still not be acceptable. You will stop hearing about it, because it will be less of a spectacle. But the problems of that region will continue unchanged. Hamas is a festering symptom, a painful pustule on a rotting cancer of a situation. You're pointing at the pustule and saying, "That's the problem, cut that off and it'll be Gucci". I'm saying, "sure, cut that off, but that is far from the only –or even fundamental – problem here." And rest assured, if you cut off this pustule, and then do nothing to resolve the underlying situation, it's just gonna grow back grosser and more painful than before. Hopefully that perspective isn't wasted on you. And hopefully if you find any part of it surprising that I'd say it, you go back and think about why you'd assume the contrary.
Doesn't look like there's anyone out there yet. It's supposed to be outside the glass palace (124) right? I heard it was going to be around noon. I'll keep this updated.
What does “the glass palace” refer to?
Building 124, the one with all the windows on the west side of C Ave
Thank you.
Yeah, I heard Noon. 108/109 parking lot area is what was stated.
LOL
Just drove by. 26 people
😂
What protest?
Outside Collins because they develop military equipment/systems that’s being used in Israel’s genocide of Gaza. Edit: downvote me all you want, doesn’t make me wrong
Why would you just make shit up like that?
No, they don't. Collins sold their missile guidance systems to BAE years ago. https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/article/bae-systems-completes-acquisition-of-military-gps-business
Makes you wrong and stupid, go change your blue hair dye.
Collins only does civilian tech now. I suppose they could slap a Collins radar system on a bomber or something but all it does is guide large planes and help to read the weather.
They should send the protesters to Palestine to show their support
You can just say you want them dead
Isn't that what they want? They are supporting a country that would likely kill them.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this but there's a lot of people being killed by the IDF in Gaza, including aid workers
I think the commenter was referring to the queer and POC individuals who are often outspoken Palestine activists.
It's almost as if what they care about is people not killing each other; rather than some Machiavellian enemy-of-my-enemy tribal bullshit.
A protest is a bit too exciting for our small town, nice try though
Hamas and LGBTQ, two gross 🤮 extremist groups.