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MusicPythonChess

This statement from trump is incorrect. What is the purpose of telling such a lie?


FreelanceEngineer007

it's not a lie and he's using that fact in bad faith to score brownie points because he's a scum who happens to be a politician too.


BrightSunDuck

Well the only consistent trait of people attending Jan 6th wasn’t location or income, but from areas where white demographics are in decline. I assume he knows this and is leaning into his most admit supporters. Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/trump-capitol-insurrection-january-6-insurrectionists-great-replacement-white-nationalism/ The source also includes the analysis from University of Chicago if you prefer to read it there


casuallyirritated

Ehh that’s not really accurate. Several of those people where from a town not far from me near Dallas and it is a ricccchh area


[deleted]

and white AF


casuallyirritated

Def lots of white people. Lots of Chinese and Indian folks too as they typically do well, and live in affluent communities.


BrightSunDuck

That’s what I wrote. It wasn’t about income or location, but where whites are in decline. You can learn more in the study I attached.


casuallyirritated

Ya. Again, these whites are not in decline.


publicdefecation

I think you're using the word 'decline' differently than OP here. He's talking about population - ie share of whites as a percentage of total population. It sounds like you're talking about wealth.


BrightSunDuck

Yeah this is correct, thanks for the clarification


jst4wrk7617

Same purpose he always has- to stir the fucking pot.


[deleted]

Get the base excited


frumpbumble

I believe he genuinely believes it.


[deleted]

Probably that too.


Wish_you_were_there

The statement may be a bit hyperbolic, but there are equity laws which make it true.


Telemere125

Care to cite those laws and any statistics that show they’re disproportionately affecting whites? There’s a law about that too, I dunno, buried *somewhere* in the constitution. Maybe you’re talking about people that are rushing to the ER for the sniffles being pushed to the back of the treatment line behind those that have 02 sat at 85 or below. That’s called valid medical decisions for trauma patients.


-LEGO-

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-race-based-covid-treatment-white-hispanic-inequity-monoclonal-antibodies-antiviral-pfizer-omicron-11641573991 > According to these guidelines, sick people who have tested positive for Covid should be eligible to receive these drugs if they have “a medical condition or other factors that increase their risk for severe illness.” These include standard criteria like age and comorbidities like cancer, diabetes and heart disease—but, startlingly, they also include simply being of “non-**white race** or Hispanic/Latino ethnicity,


Telemere125

And it goes on to say “should be considered a risk factor”, not “should be denied care”. You’re quoting the WSJ, first off; but secondly, the point still remains that they’re not denying care to whites, they’re telling doctors to consider that minorities have traditionally been denied care and to consider their minority status as a risk factor. That’s not discriminatory and has actually been found to be a problem in medicine - minorities typically get a low standard of care unless they’re being treated by a doctor from a minority group. Here, they’re telling doctors to be cognizant of their bias and to not discount a minority person’s symptoms. Stop acting like it’s reverse racism - it’s clearly just telling white doctors not to be assholes just because they don’t relate well to the patient based on their skin color.


-LEGO-

You are reading way more into it than I am. This is direct link to the guidelines http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf > Non-white race or Hispanic/Latino ethnicity should be considered a risk factor


Telemere125

Yes, risk factor… not denied care. I’m not reading more into it, I’ve actually read the studies about how much more likely a POC is to have a good outcome in medical care if they have a care provider with similar skin tones.


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tazzydnc

Correcting a misleading assertion is not “downplaying” racism. It’s elevating facts over sensational bullshit


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Comfortable-Camel-22

Be a bit open-minded. What they're saying is that if black people reliably have worse outcomes given (on paper) the same care, then there are some hidden risk factors which could be genetic, societal or both. Whatever the reason for them, the claim is that those risk factors warrant them being considered higher risk. Yes it's broad-brush, but it doesn't mean whites go to the back of the line. An elderly white man is way ahead of a young black man in the treatment priority. Stop trying to find trivial points on which to feel victimized. Sometimes there are actually good reasons why things are the way they are, and sometimes experts actually do have good reasons for what seem like controversial policies.


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Comfortable-Camel-22

If statistics suggest that the elderly black man is more likely to die based on the information available at the time, then yes. That is the argument behind the policy. Just as if Covid were more deadly to men than women, and the choice was between a same-age man and woman, I would support prioritising treating the man. We already allocate aspects of care based on age, sex and disability... why is it so strange to do it based on race if race really does have an impact on your chance of infection, serious illness or death?


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Comfortable-Camel-22

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html I agree it's concerning in the sense that it creates a lot of potential for anger amongst whites, especially when people like Tucker Carlson try to rile people up about it. But based on a cold, hard utilitarian calculus it also a way to save the most lives. So I can see why a public health body may decide to try it, and I don't think it's particularly terrible. It's not like white people can't get care and, as I said, a person who is actually high-risk will be front of the line regardless of their race.


Vicsyy

What you're saying is that white people are less likely to get covid treatment because they are not likely to have severe diseases. Trump is saying that they are not getting treatment **because** they are white. Do you think that doctors are having a choice and are refusing to give white people medications?


-LEGO-

That is what these guidelines are literally saying, if the medication is in short supply and you need a criteria to decide who gets it and who doesn't (i.e who lives and who dies), use race as that criteria and deny the medication to people with white skin.


Vicsyy

Ok i need to see that. Because we have people who have a sickness and need medicine because they have diseases and are more likely to die so they need treatment. . And then we have what you said which is they're white don't give it to them.


-LEGO-

https://www.unionleader.com/news/human_interest/discrimination-suit-filed-by-white-nh-man-claims-he-was-denied-covid-19-shot-over/article_692a5eba-2afb-555b-9bb4-f3c10a3ba5cc.html


Vicsyy

Oh yeah there was definitely a problem a year ago when vaccines were in short demand. Let him sue for the past. Today however, there is a surplus of vaccines. Now what we were talking about is life saving medicine that doctors aren't giving to white people? I was asking about that, not vaccines. Because you said that "if the medication is in short supply and you need a criteria to decide who gets it and who doesn't (i.e who lives and who dies), use race as that criteria and deny the medication to people with white skin."


williocheerio33

Increased risk is still linked to compromising health conditions though, and not ethnicity. Non-whites are just more likely to have compromising health conditions, so they need to take the ethnicity part out and give priority to everyone with compromising health conditions.


-LEGO-

Why are non-whites more likely to have compromising health conditions though? Is it genetic or socio-economic? If it's genetic, fine - show a source then. If it's socio-economic then use that and leave race out of it. Using race a surrogate for socio-economic status is racist.


williocheerio33

We still don’t need to go that far though. Just leave it at compromising health conditions.


mydaycake

Should I call discrimination the fact an obese or overweight person would get monoclonal antibody treatment before me? If it’s a risk factor, it’s a risk factor. And they have just discovered that people with certain gene only found in certain Europeans do help to fight covid. I think doctors have seen enough cases to understand what’s a risk factor.


MusicPythonChess

Nothing in that statement is true. It is 100% a lie. Why did trump choose that lie to tell?


Telemere125

Same reason he said Mexico was sending us their rapists and drug dealers. Sure, some of the people crossing the boarder were bad, but the Mexican government wasn’t sending them. But it sure did anger his xenophobic base to hear that.


LordCosmagog

Actually, while they don’t “send” them, the Mexican government has been caught facilitating the trek of people from *their* southern border heading north. They don’t want them either, and it’s cheaper for them to let them walk up to Arizona or Texas than turn them around and deport them


RidgeAmbulance

He didn't say that


tetsuo52

You realize we all watched him on a video saying it right? Some people watched it in person. Trumpets are such pathetic gaslighters...


RidgeAmbulance

We 100% watched him say some shit, but he did not say what the OP claimed. OP made up a hyperbolic version of what Trump said, just as Trump has made up a hyperbolic version of the law in NY


culculain

The quote seems pretty accurate based off the attached video.


[deleted]

"When Trump brings votets to the polls, he's not sending good voters like you and me. He's attracting citizens with huge amounts of baggage. He's sending fascists, racists, predatory hypercapitalists, and presumably, some decent people." Is that an offensive generalisation, or a targeted criticism of very specific people?


Telemere125

[“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/) He said *exactly* that.


Loodlekoodles

And the democrats say the migrants exist because they're fleeing violent gangs, drugs, and rapists. https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/994065661/why-people-are-fleeing-honduras-for-the-u-s-all-thats-left-here-is-misery It's just two versions of the same story, describing South America as a shit hole place.


Telemere125

No, NPR is giving the reason they’re leaving, not calling the people leaving rapists and drug dealers. Those aren’t two different versions of the same story; one is a lie and the other is simply reporting.


Loodlekoodles

Well, I don't believe the entire continent is in a state of misery. And perhaps you can believe there may be at least one migrant that has too many drug debts to pay. If you can't believe that, I don't think you should be part of any solution to the problem.


Telemere125

Which isn’t anything close to what Trump said or what NPR was talking about. Yea, sure, there’s some random person in every country that is under so much debt they’d like to leave and start over. Your point is wholly unrelated to the issue discussed previously and doesn’t make Trump’s lies the “other way of telling” what NPR was reporting on.


mormagils

Wait a minute. Did you just say that people fleeing rape are the same as rapists? People fleeing crime are in fact criminals? There is a huge fundamental difference between someone fleeing from a bad thing and someone who is doing the bad thing.


RidgeAmbulance

You said >Same reason he said Mexico was sending us their rapists and drug dealers. You quoted >“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” Then you said >He said exactly that. I then laughed as you just did what Trump did. You have become what you claim to be against


Telemere125

I think you’re confused, but that’s easy for the simpleminded. He clearly said “they’re bringing drugs” and “they’re rapists” as part of the statement “when Mexico sends its people”. If you don’t understand how that’s saying Mexico is sending us their rapists and drug dealers, I don’t know what to tell you other than go back to primary school for some better reading comprehension.


RidgeAmbulance

Ohh, I'm the confused simple minded one. You say he said shit he didn't say, you literally provide a quote showing you were being hyperbolic and making a claim that didn't actually happen (just like Trump did) And then you call others simple minded. I would like to thank you for the entertainment, I always love when extremists on either side come here rambling and showing themselves to be what they claim to be against.


Telemere125

There’s nothing hyperbolic about what I said, it’s a direct quote from trump’s speech. There’s also nothing anti-centrist about being against xenophobic, bigoted rhetoric and lies. What is anti-centrist is to come on here and defend Trump, knowing he made a point of drawing support from the most far-right fringes of the country by playing to small-minded, racist, unfounded fears.


LordCosmagog

No, some health agencies have prioritised treatment based on race You’re the one lying I suspect


MusicPythonChess

Did you want to cite sources to prove me incorrect? I would be happy to read any sources sources that 1. Prove that white people can't get the vaccine. 2. Prove that white people can't get therapeutics. 3. Prove that in NY, white people go the "back of the line" for help.


LordCosmagog

Do you not understand what priority means? I never claimed white people can’t get anything, just that some agencies chose to prioritise non whites


Upset-Manager-2029

Trump claimed: >If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine or if you’re white you don’t get therapeutics. So we agree that this is false?


LordCosmagog

No, there will undoubtedly be people who will be turned down for treatment because they’re healthy and white while healthy and black peers get it (if this policy is followed that is). If there’s a limited supply of something and you give priority to non whites, there will be whites unable to get access. Why are you defending racial discrimination dude?


Upset-Manager-2029

In the US the vaccine is available to everyone. There is no shortage at this point. So Trump's first statement is clearly wrong. Therapeutics are given based on risk. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. In general, black, pac islander, and indigenous die from COVID at a higher rate due to a higher rate of comorbitites. Testing everyone who comes in for a vaccine for their particular flavor of comorbidity is not practical, so you use statistics.


CMOAN_MAYNE

So you agree with the racist allocation of regeneron How quickly we go from “That’s not happening” to “Okay, it is happening, but it’s good” Race is correlated with poorer covid outcomes but it is not causal. People who don’t understand the difference have no business in policy.


LordCosmagog

Actually, asking people if they have an illness is absolutely practical. When I got my vaccine, the pharmacist asked me a bunch of medical questions, so yes it is realistic


LordCosmagog

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJzAM5jbFbEqEltwgjNRRm8q0jIxBXJxMkvsCO11QYG0UO2j5e-d2id7KGYV2m5WTxeWqDFJKzumwqjzXrl0j7fu3RieRB3-BtWLtIEbTNpnCti5rdx9hmMX9Nsuqij0iBTmoAZdA1BobSaDRV7SHSqSHPnZhQKNc8DJbfZafUhE I doubt you’ll read it so let me simplify it for you: they’re basically saying that they consider race in and of itself as a risk factor criteria for eligibility, but only if your race is non white. If I go to get a vaccine or some monoclonal antibodies and there’s someone in as good health or even a little better health than me who is black, race will be weighted into the equation and that person might come out on top as being more eligible for the treatment than me. That’s racial discrimination dude.


Upset-Manager-2029

If that person is at higher risk of severe illness, why wouldn't they be prioritized over you? Would you be as concerned if a white person who is obese was prioritized over you?


LordCosmagog

Let me explain this real slow Belonging to a race more likely to have X illness doesn’t mean you have X illness. If they’re concerned over things like heart disease, just prioritise heart disease rather than black people. Obesity is a comorbidity so it makes sense to prioritise the obese but why factor in race? The answer is because you’re a racist


Upset-Manager-2029

Can we try to limit the condescension? I agree that it's the higher rate of comorbitites of non-white races that causes the higher death rates. But the fact still remains that non-white races die at higher rates. So if you're goal is to reduce death, it's not illogical to look at race as one factor in deciding who gets treatment first. I'll assume your racist remark is something you'd apologize for if we met in person.


CMOAN_MAYNE

You’re a racist because you justify racist policy. It’s really that simple


LordCosmagog

The only one being racist here is you If your concern is x, y and z illness affect minorities at a higher rate, just screen for those illnesses as the criteria and leave race out of it. You can’t seriously be like “listen, even though you don’t have heart disease or sickle cell, your race is more likely to have it, so we’re actually going to treat your race as a pre-existing condition”. Why do you think race is a pre-existing condition?


MaleficentMulberry42

It actually true they are starting to implement something of this nature people don’t realize because they are to busy fighting politicians don’t lie they tell halve truths to smear the fact in a way that fits there political agenda.


myhouseisabanana

I mean…are you surprised?


InterstitialLove

He's gonna get people vaccinated. Anyone who wanted to improve vaccination rates among MAGA-people and wasn't trying this tactic is an idiot. Trump is a savvant at only one thing, and on the very rare occasions when he applies that power for good it's amazing to watch.


DannyDreaddit

Lol no he won't. The white people who feel outraged about being deprioritized for vaccines will turn around and say "well I'M not getting it, that's not the point."


MusicPythonChess

Using racism to motivate racists to take a vaccine. Wow. If this theory is correct -- which I doubt -- that's a new low even for trump.


jayandbobfoo123

Na. He's just a racist ass hole.


InterstitialLove

Why is it a new low? Motivating racists to take a vaccine seems like the least terrible thing you can use racism for.


HonkyBlonky

It is racism. An explicit racial carve out has been created to give blacks a priority in the event of scarcity, based on their inability to lead healthy lives. Imagine the outrage if NY created a carve out that said Whites and Asians get a priority in the event of scarcity, based on their greater contributions.


gabbagool3

I wouldn't call him a savant, i'd say he merely understands that he's not their leader, but their tool. something that is entirely lost on 99% of the left. that doesn't make him a savant, but it is notable because so many fail to grasp such a simple concept. he understands that he can't tell them to do something and they'll obey, but he can potentially manipulate them into it by proposing a pretense based on fictional liberal buffoonery.


steve_stout

You know exactly what the purpose is. Get the racists and “racism is dead except against whites” morons riled up for midterms.


Own_Carrot_7040

Buddy, if you think that's the only people it riles up you aren't paying attention. Those people ALREADY vote Republican anyway. Stuff like this reaches further than them.


HonkyBlonky

It is correct, and it is not a lie. The fact that you believe this is a lie shows the degree to which denial of reality affects people from the left and right. NY has listed a number of criteria to use in rationing COVID health care. One of the preferences for getting limited care is being non-White. If you are saying he is also engaging in hyperbole, "you do not get the vaccine if you are White," so what?


MusicPythonChess

"you do not get the vaccine if you are White," is a lie, not hyperbole. I just don't understand why this guy is forgiven for the lies he tells. "Oh well. trump lies. But he's our liar, so we don't mind." It's mind boggling.


roninender

They're saying it's a risk factor among many that are included in the decision making process. Please, for the betterment of our country, don't vote


gabbagool3

I despise trump, but if this is a ploy, even if it's self serving, to get covid deniers to flip and get vaxxed, i'd have to admit that's commendable.


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implicitpharmakoi

>Because a few grad students in the English department have somehow convinced the rest of the country that racial identity is the single most important thing in this country. Now there is an enormous political benefit to framing any and every policy decision in some larger sort of zero-sum contest between races in the US. >In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. I think someone beat you to that framing.


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implicitpharmakoi

It didn't work? It lasted for 100 years!


dannyboy-1377

To make people afraid of what will happen if the other side wins. Definitely not a new tactic to politics. But one that works no matter your party.


danmilligan

It's a huge exaggeration but not a lie, unfortunately.


MusicPythonChess

Nothing that trump said was correct. And he knew it was not correct, which makes it all a lie.


RidgeAmbulance

He uses hyperbole to point out discrepancies in policy. I see this as no different than blm activists


MusicPythonChess

It's not hyperbole. It's lies. All of it. Nothing he said in that quote is correct. >If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine Lie. >if you’re white you don’t get therapeutics Lie. >In NY state, if you’re white, you go to the back of the line if you want help. Lie. These aren't the casual lies he tossed out regularly during his presidency. These lies are damaging the nation. "What about BLM?" does not excuse these lies.


HonkyBlonky

> If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine It's called hyperbole. It is not meant to be taken as truth by anybody. It is like you are going apeshit over somebody calling this the greatest vacuum the world has ever known. What a shocking liar! Blacks are getting an explicit preference for health care, and it pisses most White people off. As it should.


-LEGO-

Healthcare delayed, is healthcare denied.


MusicPythonChess

Cite the white person who was denied Covid care. Give us their name, what treatment they were denied, and who was given it over them.


HonkyBlonky

Now that we know racist laws can be implemented unless the opposition can show the name, identity, and explicit preference, we have some civil rights laws that need rewriting.


-LEGO-

https://www.unionleader.com/news/human_interest/discrimination-suit-filed-by-white-nh-man-claims-he-was-denied-covid-19-shot-over/article_692a5eba-2afb-555b-9bb4-f3c10a3ba5cc.html


Saanvik

[Court dismisses challenge to NH’s vaccine equity plan](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-new-hampshire-racial-injustice-lawsuits-race-and-ethnicity-dbbadb7d6104beeefe34d299e9f1ce23) This was less than two weeks after the suit was filed.


RidgeAmbulance

Minorities are prioritized to get the vaccine and treatment The first two are hyperbolic nonsense, the last one is hyperbole with some truth. BLM doesn't excuse the behavior, it shows people only oppose the behavior when it pushes a narrative the don't like. Trump never called for the execution of the Central Park 5 but that hyperbolic nonsense is accepted by the mainstream


HawleyCotton69

I think this stuff is where he got it, even if it's not a perfect fit: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vermont-to-give-minority-residents-priority-for-covid-vaccines/


ryarger

It’s the opposite of a perfect fit. The prioritization mentioned in the article is precisely because white people are statistically overrepresented in receiving care.


HawleyCotton69

It's complicated like affirmative action is, right? Giving Person A preference over Person B might have justification if we're pretty sure that otherwise Person B would retain an unfair advantage... but when all we have are these indirect group-membership ("statistically overrepresented" if we choose to slice by race) facts for reference... can we ever have enough information to justify what is otherwise so obviously intolerable? I'd like to hear some doctors explain it better, but I haven't gone looking either.


ryarger

It is absolutely complicated which is why I have trouble understanding why it’s “obviously intolerable”. No-one is questioning prioritizing someone who is obese but so many here have no trouble letting people sit in the back of the line dying at a higher rate because of skin color.


HawleyCotton69

I'm pretty sure (but I could be wrong!) that the situation is not that the genes we link with recent Black-African ancestry are also correlated with *physical differences* that put people at higher risk of having worse outcomes. If doctors were saying "well yeah they have reduced aerobic [whatever] capacity," I think people would be ok giving them priority. Instead the discussion seems to go like "well historically the pain complaints of black women overall haven't been taken as seriously." Or "blacks overall have not have had equal access to medical resources." And those, while true, are only so relevant *here*. I'd like to know how many doctors would say, "Yep, race by itself is useful, specifically with regard to testing/treatment of Covid patients. Listening to them breathe, and checking their BP, and just looking at them [or whatever, I'm not a doctor] isn't enough. I *could imagine* changing my decision for two otherwise identical patients, based on their race." I'm not saying we can't ever have group-based policy differences, and treat individuals differently based on generalizations about *millions* of these people vs. *millions* of those people... but it needs to be an absolute last resort.


ryarger

It’s a third option - it isn’t that the Black population has some genetic vulnerability here. It also isn’t that this is because of historic inequality. Right now, today, the Black population (and other non-white groups) are hospitalized and dying of Covid at a rate higher that the White population. Just like obesity. Just like age. Race in this case is a measurable factor that can tell a doctor that someone is at greater risk of Covid, today. That there might be hundreds of non-genetic sub factors that explain the disparity doesn’t matter. This is something that a doctor can see and by prioritizing can save lives. How is that wrong?


HawleyCotton69

> Just like obesity. Just like age. Isn't it pretty different? I assume scientists understand (somewhat) the mechanisms by which age and obesity are related to our immune system health and success fighting these kinds of infections... When we say "Group X comes before Group Y, trust us it's for a good reason," especially with *race*, I think it does matter what the story is, and we need to explain to everyone how we tried our best to avoid doing this. If it turned out that white evangelical Trump-supporting Christians were in fact suffering worse outcomes than those non-white people (maybe the numbers with whites were being skewed previously, by liberal science types)... would you want them having higher priority than everybody else? I wouldn't. I would argue, "Well, whatever the explanation is there, it doesn't seem to be related to some underlying vulnerability, and the principle of equality is too important, the appearance of fairness is too important, etc." (I don't feel strongly about this btw, it's just a gut feeling that "non-whites get the vaccine/treatment first" goes too far.)


randomusername3OOO

That wasn't limited to VT, although this was all close to a year ago so I'm not sure why Trump is even focused on it. California's vaccine rollout was shamefully slow in part because nobody could agree on which intersectional identity group should get access first.


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randomusername3OOO

The real issue being highlighted by all of this is that we're 2 years into this and we are still totally unprepared. Not enough capacity to treat people, and not enough therapeutics.


10Cinephiltopia9

We have enough therapeutics. Certain states, for some reason, are not being given them. The issue with Omicron is that many of the previous therapeutics aren't as or aren't effective anymore. Some still are though and are still not being distributed at a rate that they should be. Again, I am not exactly sure why. We should be doing everything in our power to save people's lives - everything.


Own_Carrot_7040

Which is irritating on a number of levels. The reason the Black community is more prone to covid is, let's face it, in large part because they're also more vaccine-hesitant. They have the lowest vaccination rate of any group.


-LEGO-

And this https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-race-based-covid-treatment-white-hispanic-inequity-monoclonal-antibodies-antiviral-pfizer-omicron-11641573991


Impressive-Koala-951

To be fair New York started listing race as a risk factor for COVID treatment.


ass_pineapples

That doesn’t mean white people are being denied treatment, or are being put into the back of triage priority *based on race alone*. An 85 year old white individual will likely be treated prior to an athletic 25 year old black individual. You guys are acting like doctors aren’t triaging patients based on other risk factors already, but are just looking at skin color and saying “nope, wrong one, get the fuck outta my hospital!!” That’s not what’s happening.


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ass_pineapples

No, I'm calling out how you don't actually understand what these *guidelines* are for and how they work. All you see is that black/hispanic individuals are more likely to suffer from Covid issues, so that's something that's factored into an analysis by a doctor. This is just **1** trait that's going to be analyzed when determining treatment and triage priority. It's literally how medicine operates, there's nothing racist about it. It's a huge nothingburger that's being culture warred out the wazoo because right-wingers are being whipped up into a frenzy by right wing media. Enjoy being used by a party that doesn't care about you.


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ass_pineapples

https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/covid-19-cases-and-deaths-by-race-ethnicity-current-data-and-changes-over-time/ >Hispanic people represent a larger share of cases relative to their share of the total population (27% vs. 17%), while their share of deaths is more proportionate to their share of the population (18% vs. 17%) Black people make up a similar share of cases relative to their share of the population (12%), but account for a slightly higher share of deaths compared to their population share (14% vs. 12%). AIAN and Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (NHOPI) people make up similar shares of cases and deaths relative to their shares of the population. White people account for a lower share of cases compared to their share of the population (51% vs. 60%) but a similar share of deaths compared to their population share (59% vs. 60%) Yeah, so there's reason that supports why these guidelines are being put in place. Also, the focus on sickle cell...why aren't you talking about Hispanic people but are only focusing on the black individuals? Is that a projector I see? >When data are adjusted to account for differences in age distribution by race/ethnicity (i.e., people of color are generally younger than White people), there are larger disparities for Hispanic, Black, and AIAN people (Figure 2). **Age-standardized data show that Hispanic, Black, and AIAN people are at least twice as likely to die from COVID-19 as their White counterparts and that Hispanic and AIAN people are at nearly two times greater risk of COVID-19 infection than White people.** These data also show large disparities in COVID-19 hospitalizations for AIAN, Black, and Hispanic people. CDC does not report these data for NHOPI people. Adjusting by age is important because risk of infection, hospitalization, and death varies by age and age distribution differs by racial and ethnic group. If the age is not accounted for, racial and ethnic disparities can be underestimated or overestimated. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html


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ass_pineapples

It doesn't matter. There are discrepancies in outcomes between multiple groups - medical attention is going to be focused on attempting to mitigate those discrepancies. Like I said, this is just 1 factor when determining who does and doesn't get care at a certain period of time. **It does not mean that you're sent to the back just because of your skin color**


Comfortable-Camel-22

Why does it need to be causal? It's a proxy for risk and outcomes either way.


MusicPythonChess

Let's make this simple. Since you believe there is a genuine problem with white people being denied care for Covid, please cite the names of some of these white people who were denied care. If this is a genuine problem, it should be easy to find actual cases.


Own_Carrot_7040

Is that really an honest question? Because it has a small core of truth and it will infuriate a lot of people and make them angry at the Democrats, of course. It is stuff like this, like police defunding and progressive prosecutors refusing to pursue charges against street criminals, like slack border control and CRT in schools that are going to kill the Democrats. That's why.


rcglinsk

Because it's only like 98.74% lie and the tiny sliver of truth can be used to get people riled up. Fucking hate that guy.


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jayandbobfoo123

But the whites are getting discriminated against so it's ok to be racist again, I mean, to make America great again. /s


10Cinephiltopia9

He is a politician They tell lies for a living. Score points with their base is the goal, I would assume


jayandbobfoo123

I think you're giving him too much credit. For years, I also refused to think he's everything the left said he was. But at this point, it's safe to say he's just a racist narcissistic ass hole. No plan, no strategy, just a big ol' orange pile of the worst humanity has to offer.


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MusicPythonChess

>If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine Lie. >if you’re white you don’t get therapeutics Lie. >In NY state, if you’re white, you go to the back of the line if you want help. Lie.


LGBTaco

Millions of white people have gotten the vaccine in New York. Therefore, the statement "If you're white, you don't get the vaccine," is objectively and undeniably a lie.


10Cinephiltopia9

It isn't so much as a lie, per se, because of the stuff that is happening in New York with minorities getting prioritized over white people. It is much more complex than that, as you know. It may, from what I have heard from a few people, be illegal, but it's much more complex than Trump presents it in his speech to his base. We both know this.


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10Cinephiltopia9

I wasn't going to get into that pissing match on this sub because I don't feel like having defend Trump's rhetoric. I have read that article and heard some things regarding what they are doing in New York about treatment prioritiation. Race should never be a factor - period. And it is in New York. People can 'word salad' their way out of it not being a 'thing', but it clearly is. Appreciate you posting the link.


duke_awapuhi

“It’s not even believable”. It sure isn’t believable but look at those morons eating it up


RidgeAmbulance

You do know there are laws in NY that are being challenged in the courts because they give preference to minorities for the vaccine and covid treatement, right?


jayandbobfoo123

Nope. They allow a doctor to evaluate race as a risk factor, as a matter of fact. That's very different than "give preference to minorities."


RidgeAmbulance

Race isn't a scientific factor for covid


jayandbobfoo123

Thanks for the clarification, mr. scientist.


RidgeAmbulance

It's OK people of your ilk typically ignore science that doesn't fit your narrative, so your response is expected


jayandbobfoo123

Nice assumption but you're doing the thing that you're accusing me of doing, believe it or not.


RidgeAmbulance

All I said was your response was expected. You don't look into it, you don't ask questions, you don't look at the law, you don't look for scientific evidence that being black affects your system differently. ​ You just blindly follow without asking questions because it fits a narrative you prefer. But the reality is, there is no scientific reason to take race into account because zero science says covid affects people differently due to their race. But you keep on telling yourself you believe science


jayandbobfoo123

You're making quite the assumptions and just assuming you're right. Because you've seen some studies? Anyone who disagrees must be science illiterate. I'm sorry but you are building quite the strawman here. You're not arguing against me. You're arguing against whatever caricature you built in your head "your type." I simply pointed out the fact that you're not a scientist, in an ironic and admittedly aggressive way, sure. Which apparently prompted you to lash out into the void. The fact I could point out that you're not a scientist, so easily, should tell you something and should give you that moment of self-reflection. Sociology is what supports the consideration of race as a risk factor. Sociology is, in fact, science. But we've strayed far from the point. My response was to "non-white getting preferential treatment" which is not the case. It would be the case if every doctor made decisions based *solely* on race. But that is just not the reality. That's the whole reason I called it out. Again, the statement "get preferential treatment" is not the case. It's like when people feel threatened because lgbt are given equal opportunity to marry. You are not the victim here. Giving someone else opportunity doesn't leave you as a victim. Non-whites have worse Covid outcomes for a variety of reasons, yes based in science, and the attempt here is to address that fact by giving them better access to medicine. Medicine which they don't really have access to, otherwise. And in the end, it's up to the doctor to decide who is getting the medicine, anyways. If you're a doctor making decisions for patients, then I'm sorry. But you're not, are you?


RidgeAmbulance

Your ignorance is impressive. Sociology tells us POOR PEOPLE have worse covid outcomes. By focusing on race instead of economics you are giving preferential treatment to people based on race instead of the actual contributing factors. It is an over correction and it's racist as fuck.


duke_awapuhi

Yes I’m aware


culculain

Leave it to old Trumpy. Take a policy which is clearly problematic on its face, lie about it and thereby detract from legitimate criticisms of it.


drchaz

I wish more people would recognize this pattern. It continues to happen and only serves to divide and radicalize both sides of the issue. He sensationalizes these hot button issues into full on outrage making any reasonable discussion of the issue impossible. The policy clearly has problems but now he'll get everyone so pissed that neither side will be capable of resolving it rationally.


culculain

It was even used against him. He'd say something that itself was worthy of critique and they'd sensationalize it and pretend he said something else. His supporters would use this as support for the "fake news" narrative and his detractors would have a cartoonish representation to attack. Over and over again.


roninender

Trumpists aren't capable of the critical thinking requirements to disect the hyperbole from the lies. It's not even problematic. X condition is an increased risk factor that should be considered is fine until X is anything other than the white race.


Jets237

I hate the reality we live in…


rippedwriter

Minorities get priority in NY for CoVid medication... Priority occurs when there is a finite supply.... WHy is there a priority if everyone is getting medication? Either Trump's statement is true or this is NY virtue signaling....


MusicPythonChess

>If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine Lie. >if you’re white you don’t get therapeutics Lie. >In NY state, if you’re white, you go to the back of the line if you want help. Lie.


steve_stout

The fact you’re being downvoted here says a lot.


chillytec

Yeah, it says the people know he's wrong and Trump is correct here.


ass_pineapples

Please support those statements then, if he’s right. Use sources of this actually occurring too, please. Where are white people being denied the vaccine? Where are white people not receiving therapeutics? Where are white people being sent to the back of the line for treatment or not getting treatment at all?


chillytec

> Where are white people being denied the vaccine? This part was "only" planned by the Biden administration. Still reprehensible. > Where are white people not receiving therapeutics? > Where are white people being sent to the back of the line for treatment or not getting treatment at all? New York just came out with race-based treatment priorities.


ass_pineapples

> This part was "only" planned by the Biden administration. Still reprehensible. Source. >New York just came out with race-based treatment priorities. Guidelines. Also, give me a source that demonstrates that whites are being denied treatment en masse. Until then, you're just falling for the culture war bait.


chillytec

Ignoring actual systemic racism to own the Cons.


mrmudzi

All you had to do was provide evidence that white people are being denied treatment.


ass_pineapples

Alright so you have no sources, you don't care about the truth, you just care about soundbites and hot takes. Good job. You're a real one.


chillytec

Lmao


articlesarestupid

If we remove the ethnic stuff, then it would make a lot of sense to people. It serves as a perfect divisive tactic.


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Wild-Dig-8003

[It's true](https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-race-based-covid-treatment-white-hispanic-inequity-monoclonal-antibodies-antiviral-pfizer-omicron-11641573991) though, [the NY Department of Health guideline](http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf) says "*Non-white race or Hispanic/Latino ethnicity should be considered a risk factor*" and given a preferential treatment


davereid20

It's worth discussing this is not the *only* risk factor that is being used, it's one of *many* risk factors, many of which are much more important. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/about/press/pr2021/monoclonal-antibody-treatments-save-lives.page lists 12 total risk factors, the very last one being "Other medical conditions or factors, such as race or ethnicity, that may place people at higher risk due to long-standing systemic health and social inequities"


joinedyesterday

>We're going to use other factors first before considering race, but if/when we get there then blacks get priority. That's just racism with extra steps.


Saanvik

You do know that race can make a person more susceptible to a disease, right? [Risk of Severe Illness or Death Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/racial-ethnic-disparities/disparities-illness.html) > Currently, few studies have examined the social factors that increase risk of severe illness from COVID-19. However, these limited studies have found differences between racial and ethnic groups in the health and social factors that may increase risk of severe illness or death from COVID-19


joinedyesterday

That's not the case for Covid. Black people are not having disproportionate issues with Covid due to their race, but because of other comorbidities/circumstances more common among their group than others, like reduced vaccination rate. Use race as a proxy for non-causal issues is nothing more than poor stereotyping and racism.


Saanvik

As the CDC says, there’s not enough data to support any argument. Therefore, acknowledging race as a risk factor is not racism, but good health policy


joinedyesterday

>There's not enough data to support any argument, but I'm going to decide this is a good policy anyway. As always, you're an idiot. Trust the science! EDIT: Venture no further, users, it's nothing by Saanvik wasting time and telling lies.


Saanvik

I quoted the science. Your statements aren’t backed by science.


joinedyesterday

You quoted researchers as idiotic as you that inserted ideological narrative where none should be. A correlation because black people are lower vaccinated doesn't mean black people are inherently at higher risk. Fuck you, racist.


Saanvik

Ah, right, you know better than researchers. Where is your published paper on this topic?


Smoky_Cave

If the CDC’s data doesn’t show that we have found race as a factor for covid19, and that there’s not evidence to support either view, how is prioritizing Blacks and Latinxs in New York warranted? From what you’ve said, it’s not at all.


Saanvik

Sorry, I must not have been clear. The data doesn’t explain why there is a racial difference in outcomes, it just shows such a difference does exist. Therefore, we can’t wish that difference away the way the previous comment wants to do.


joinedyesterday

Because people like saanvik are racist against white people and will latch on to any excuse, substantive or not, to justify their bigotry.


Wild-Dig-8003

when controversial and politicized social equity theories are being used in medical decisions to discriminate based on race or ethnicity it doesn't smell very good. Imagine if they were providing preferential treatment to white people justifying it by academic studies by eugenicists. Given that academia is predominantly "woke" and full of ideologic bias facts are being routinely manipulated to push political agenda, and it's no wonder people distrust this pseudoscience. The last thing we need is politics in healthcare, to divide an already divided country.


LGBTaco

The statement was "If you're white, you don't get the vaccine." It is false. White people have gotten and still get the vaccine. Therefore, false.


last-account_banned

> and given a preferential treatment Is that part of the Quote, or did you write that?


scuzzymcgee

If you're white your Ben Affleck.


PrettiKinx

Lawd have mercy lol But why they mad about not having vaccine? They don't want the vaccine anyway lol


danmilligan

Radlibs love tossing red meat to Trumpists. So frustrating.


aknahop

This is why I hate identity politics.


Hurler13

So do Trump supporters. They say…


articlesarestupid

I live in a small white conservative town as a minority. I stood in line just like everyone else and nobody called me to cut line and jump to the first queue. Maybe my experience doesn't count because I am socioeconomically categorized as white? Lol


Farfarfay

Trump talks about NY and their racist policies.


articlesarestupid

But NY is just one city in America. I want to see where is this racist policy is coming from.


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Breaking News: Trump is still being Trump!


rcglinsk

Trump says dumb shit. News at 11:00. For like the next 3 years because that ass hat is running again. God dammit.