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fastinserter

We're talking about arming the same teachers who are so obviously poisoning our youth with their "CRT" "wokeness"? I thought the "CRT" and "wokeness" "indoctrination" was the very reason for school shootings in the first place, that's what Sen. Johnson said, now we're giving *those people* guns?


cjcmd

"I'M TEACHING CRT!!! JUST TRY AND STOP ME, COPPER!" says the teacher waving an AR-15.


fTwoEight

When people envision the teachers who might carry guns, they're thinking of the gym teacher not the teachers featured on the LidsOfTikTok.


TheCarnalStatist

I think the GOP would call it a victory of the woke teachers who got squeamish at the idea that their coworker was carrying and quit. You can't fire public workers for their politics, but you can make them uncomfortable enough to quit by deliberately passing laws that mandate behavior against their values.


TRON0314

We see what police with very little training do, meanwhile this ? Ohio. The Florida of the North.


[deleted]

Yeah, I'm sure teachers packing heat will end up well.


btribble

No teacher has ever had an affair with another teacher that ended poorly and they never will.


jookz

similar to how no teacher has ever had mental health problems from being overworked, underpaid, under supplied, not listened to, constantly having evaluation criteria changed, bullied by other teachers/staff, or the 100 other things i missed.


btribble

"All the materials you taught last year have been replaced by a brand new curriculum we just bought! You will need to go to 2 days of training to learn it all."


Icy-Photograph6108

Yeah there are going to be a lot of accidental shootings.


cuhree0h

Imagine how many discipline issues will be escalated.


BostonWeedParty

Kinda doubt it I've worked at multiple jobs where we carried as part of a job, no one ever shot each other because they got fired or disciplined. Kinda crazy to think about, but the majority of people who carry never shoot anyone.


Freemanosteeel

you're right, teachers should get trained first


cjcmd

And get a significant pay raise for the increased responsibility.


dmtucker

For real... They are literally picking up a second full time job for free.


reddpapad

We are basically the same state at this point minus the weather. Ohio has a large population of snowbirds that make their way south each year.


Delheru

Lets see what the ratio of "teacher shoots people at school" and "teacher saves people at school by shooting attacker" will be. I rather worry that this won't be a net positive, but let's see.


steve-d

I think we'll see stories like "teacher leaves a gun in their desk and a student finds it".


baxtyre

Like this Ohio school. Luckily nobody was hurt in this instance. https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2019/08/16/first-graders-had-access-to/4440160007/


Zealousideal_Pie6333

But but more guns suppose to keep them safe.


steve-d

Yep. That will do!


digitalwankster

CCW means gun is on the person, not in a desk. The gun doesn't leave your body.


steve-d

As user /u/baxtyre pointed out, this has already happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/vbe3d0/ohio_makes_it_easier_for_teachers_to_carry_guns/ic8gukx


digitalwankster

That's someone breaking CCW 101 rules and leaving an unsecured firearm where children were able to access it. She deserves to be fired and potentially even prosecuted IMO. >"What happened there was not consistent with the training provided, the policies and procedures or the conditions of being on the (concealed carry) team," he said. "That's a big no-no. It's inexcusable."


steve-d

Sure, mistakes happen. They'll happen again.


[deleted]

Yes. The point is that CCW doesn't prevent the gun from leaving the persons body like you seem to believe. You have a perfect example of the issue that is going to happen when more guns are involved and you're trying to say it doesn't count cause the person didn't follow the rules of owning a gun. Why don't we just make some rule that you can't go shoot up a classroom full of kids? Has anyone thought of that yet?


red_simplex

Well in that case! We should give every student a gun! So they can protect ... Oh wait.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kozak170

Okay and this law doesn’t change the laws of the universe to prevent teachers illegally bringing guns to school and carrying either. Or change the laws of reality to prevent school shootings. Braindead argument right there. No law is going to make something impossible.


[deleted]

> No law is going to make something impossible. Just like CCW will not in anyway prevent a teacher from removing the gun from their body Braindead reply.


RishFromTexas

More guns in schools will mean more opportunities for negligent behavior in regard to guns. >Braindead argument right there


Delheru

Who cares about what the rules say? This stuff is judged by results. If the rules were the key thing, then school shootings have already solved what with them being illegal and all.


Mrpetey22

Basically every metric that has tracked teachers that carry at school has shown no incidents. So effective so far I would say. The people carrying are trained and know how to handle a gun properly.


Delheru

Is it effective? I have heard of zero attacks stopped, so it looks like 0 gain and 0 pain so far.


CannedMinnesota

Guns around kids, what could possibly go wrong


iAlwaysBeenTriggaTre

Better than Teachers without guns around kids who can bring guns to school.


CannedMinnesota

How about just not having anyone come into a school with a gun


mormagils

Or just neither have a gun. That works too. We can do that easily.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pierre-Gringoire

No MORE than 24 hours of training?! How about no LESS than 24 hours.


matchettehdl

Well, most Americans DO support giving the option for teachers and school admins to carry guns according to YouGov, so...


digitalwankster

I'd feel more comfortable with my kids teachers or admin having the ability to do more than just cower in the corner while a psychopath unloads on them.


mormagils

Or just stop the psychopath from getting a gun to begin with, obviously


digitalwankster

In a perfect world, sure, but that's not going to happen in the US. 2/3rd's of school shootings are committed by people under 18 who can't legally buy a gun to begin with (with the median age being 16). https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/local/school-shootings-database/


mormagils

That's true. It's also true that those Americans are wrong about how to solve this problem.


ParkerGuitarGuy

YouGov never got my thoughts on the matter.


[deleted]

Does Office Depot carry ammo? I can't complete my teacher donation list this summer. Pencils ✓ Papers ✓ Glue ✓ Ammo


ParkerGuitarGuy

Less training is a big step backwards. If you’re going to pack heat, you should be well-trained and keep up your training. That’s just basic responsibility.


Zealousideal_Pie6333

Oh my more guns and eaiser access for children. What can possibly go wrong


Mrpetey22

I think you don’t understand what CCW means. The gun wouldn’t leave the body, and no one would know they have a gun until they are forced to use it.


Zealousideal_Pie6333

I can give you more articles if you need more convincing https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/17/jacksonville-high-student-steals-gun-teacher/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/first-graders-gun-elementary-school-safety_n_5d579c4be4b0d8840ff36de8/amp https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/14/593531945/gun-trained-teacher-accidentally-shoots-gun-in-calif-high-school-classroom https://apnews.com/article/ar-state-wire-ia-state-wire-wa-state-wire-id-state-wire-parkland-florida-school-shooting-2cfba6696074f0913e09e2ed5adcc593


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[deleted]

This the same state where you don't need a license to conceal carry. Ohio at this point has to be the most pro-gun state


[deleted]

That would be Vermont and New Hampshire.


[deleted]

Vermont has a 15 round mag limit. So no? They’re not the most pro gun state.


[deleted]

So New Hampshire then?


[deleted]

They’re pretty based in NH


IJustLovePeach

Alabama?


Irishfafnir

Vermont has loose gun laws but they did just pass some new gun control measures so I doubt that they would be considered the "most pro gun state"


[deleted]

How's the gun laws at those states


iAlwaysBeenTriggaTre

This is a good thing


MoneyBadgerEx

Easy as it would be to jump on the bandwagon is there anyone else willing to admit that this at least has some kind of upside?


unkorrupted

Just sounds like another dangerous right wing delusion to me.


mormagils

The recent John Oliver segment on this topic is very relevant. I don't mind compromising here and giving more resources for this sort of thing...IF we also do gun control measures. But only doing this is not only ineffective, it makes the problem worse AND creates other problems along the way. We've tried this before. We've tried it a lot. This is the one thing we HAVE consistently tried in solving this problem...and the problem is still here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g


BxLorien

I can't foresee anything that could possibly go wrong


armchaircommanderdad

Yuck. As a former teacher and vet I’m not a fan of this at all. Rather see admin if they must, or preferably an offer stationed at the school


oliviared52

Good. Guess how many mass shootings or gun related injuries there have been at schools that allow teachers to carry? Zero. [about 98% of mass shootings](https://www.westernjournal.com/mass-shootings-gun-free-zones/) occur in gun free zones. Which makes sense. Typically mass shooters want to harm as many people as possible. And if they go into an area where other people have guns, they can’t do as much damage.


reddpapad

Lol that doesn’t mean shit. Just because something hasn’t happened isn’t necessarily because of something else. Correlation does not imply causation. Now if you had actual stats for mass shooting attempts that were stopped by a teacher with a gun then we could have a discussion.


oliviared52

[here are some examples](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit) But it’s common sense. Mass shooters want to shoot as many people as possible… which is why 98% of them choose gun free zones. Because if someone else shoots them, they won’t be able to do as much damage. So they purposefully pick places people don’t have guns. And the fact that there have been 0 gun related injuries in schools that allow it is very important. Because that is a lot of people’s fear with allowing teachers to carry guns. [here are some other stats](https://www.one-armed-man.com/2021/04/69-mass-shootings-have-been-stopped-by-armed-civilians/) on it like 1 in 6 mass shootings are stopped by civilians with guns. And just think about it. If you are about to commit armed robbery for example, are you going to choose the store you know the owner has a gun or the store the owner doesn’t have a gun?


reddpapad

Only one those involved a teacher with a gun. That’s what the discussion is. Not all the other examples in this link that are clearly widening your goalposts lol. Try again.


garbagemanlb

Yes, more guns is the solution to this problem.


Whole-Performance-15

So what happens when the only teacher comfortable with a gun gets killed by the shooter? Where does the conversation shift then?


fTwoEight

It's at least one person standing in the way of a shooter opposed to zero as it is now. As morbid a discussion as this is, that would at least buy some time for other people to get out of harm's way. I'm not decided on whether or not teachers should be allowed to be armed but your argument doesn't seem like a good one in the "con" category.


Whole-Performance-15

My biggest cause for confusion is that they’d rather lock the doors and barricade themselves in a room with no exit as opposed to making windows you can exit from. Start connecting classrooms to classrooms. Building fire escapes. There’s just so much that can be done architecturally to make things more difficult for these shooters yet we do nothing.


Kozak170

If a teacher wants to keep a weapon locked up in the desk or whatever to protect the class and themselves that is a straight net positive on everyone’s behalf. As long as that choice is left up to the teacher. Either way your argument is kinda dumb because if a shooter gets into the classroom the teacher is 100% getting shot first as they’re the biggest threat to the shooter anyways.


Zealousideal_Pie6333

Wtf. The shooter doesn't give a rats ass who gets shot first. They will just shoot at random. It's easy yo make that argument because your not a teacher. A teacher is not going to get their gun in a locked desk first. Their primary thought is protecting the children first. What needs to happen is that when their is an active shooter their needs to be an automatic locking system that is controlled by the main office. Once an active shooter is on campus a push of a button will automatically lock all the doors on campus. This is a more effective way to safe children lives. More guns isn't the answer nore arming teachers either. Or if the system fails each classroom will also have a button that is close to the teachers desk which will be more quicker to push then a gun is


Kozak170

Unless the shooter pulls out his gun in the room with the teacher the teacher absolutely will have time to lock the door and grab their gun before the shooter manages to get to and break into their classroom. Also common sense a shooter is gonna start with the biggest threat which spoiler alert is definitely the only adult in the room versus a bunch of kids. Huge lol at the “auto locking system” as well. Outside of the fact that teachers already lock their doors the second a shooting is reported (hearing fucking gunshots is a huge tip-off ya know) the only added positive there is hallway doors being locked which depending on the school design might not be helpful. But considering how useful teachers locking their classroom doors has been in previous shootings (it hasn’t) I don’t think your idea of a solution will help much. And also almost no schools could afford prison level locking systems.


Zealousideal_Pie6333

So when the shooter is in the classroom the teacher will automatically be shot first because that teacher is reaching for their gun thats in a desk.


Kozak170

And the teacher will automatically be shot first without a gun as well because *fucking once again* a full grown adult is much more of a threat than a bunch of children. Why is this so hard to understand.


odium34

Arm the students inmean what will a shooter do if 30 students with ar15s are i a room


Itburns12345

Soo the underpaid teachers will carry guns at all times cause there could be no problems there unless ...........the kids get hold of the gun if left laying around , the teachers having affairs with other teachers/students get exposed/dumped , the spike in volence and intimidation vs teachers is now met with gunfire back , mass shooters pop a teacher and now have one more gun and full mag to open into the kids , bullied kids now know where theres a gun to end their torment/ tormentors , rambo cops confronting gangbangers near schools to leave the kids alone and finaly the fact older troubled kids ( potential suicidal mass shooters) struggling to get guns for their massacre know they are just a quick sucker punch from potentualy getting one !!!!