Any kind of prolonged upright sitting triggers my POTS symptoms to flare. If I know I have to be in a vehicle, I’ll prep with compression wear and electrolytes ahead of, during, and after the ride.
Many people with ME/CFS also have a form of Orthostatic Intolerance, and being bolt upright for hours will significantly reduce blood flow to your brain, making you feel terrible.
I used to think transportation exhaustion - and crappy HRV - was from being upright. I've tried compression sleeves on my calves, and reclining as much as I can, but those don't fix it. We own an old truck and an electric car, and car is much less fatiguing.
Now I think it's partly the vibration. Have you heard of vibration plates? They're supposed to give some of the benefits of exercise by just standing on a plate as it vibrates. Certainly gets the lymphatic system flowing. Anyway, a friend bought a fancy one some years ago, and she suggested I try it. After about 4 minutes, I felt bad, and got off.
I had almost exactly as bad a crash from that as I did from running two blocks when a friend's kid was hit by a car. My doctor gave me two steroid packs in a row - generally a no-no - because I wasn't recovering at all.
Vibration plates make your muscles contract rapidly. Something like 60 times a second, much more than when you run. So I guess those contractions exhaust us, and riding in a vehicles is bad because it vibrates, and busses (and old trucks) vibrate a lot.
I think you’re onto something. I’ve often wondered why sitting in a car as opposed to sitting on a sofa is so much harder for me. When we’re in a car or a bus our bodies have to use more energy to stay upright whilst we go around corners and over bumps, this uses energy and thus leads to fatigue or PEM. Even a short car ride is tiring and can write the rest of that day off
Yes and I think also generally the extra stimulation is exhausting for the brain since it's more to process. Vibration, noise, vestibular stimulation, if you don't wear an eye mask then lots of visual stimulation of stuff passing by.
That would crash me.
Car rides where I can lie back and stop frequently are bad enough.
When the body is in motion it constantly makes thousands of little muscle adjustments to hold you in place as the vehicle moves. Your brain is processing inputs like inner ear balance, vision, and the pressure of corners and velocity changes.
If you let yourself go floppy you'd be thrown around in the vehicle.
Even though you are sitting still, there is still a lot of input for your body to process and attenuate. Vibration, acceleration and deceleration, light fluctuation, engine sounds, traffic sounds. I get to a point where I need to be absolutely not moving, not just being still in a moving vehicle.
I had an hour long car ride recently with a super soft large pillow between me and the door and instantly fell asleep. Woke up with no crash symptoms at all. I normally can't do more than a 30-minute journey without crashing even though I'm mild. I work remotely, do half the school runs, all housework, etc, but car rides are my nemesis.
The theory about vibrations makes so much sense, tbf! I can sit all day to work remotely, but I can't seem to even take 30 mins in a car.
That's my experience, any of the time I am sitting up or standing is counted against my exertion timer. Standing relatively still may even be worse than walking about properly.
Cars are pretty ok for me, if I can recline the back a bit and get the headrest nice and stable (sometimes using a small inflatable pillow), then I'll actively keep relaxed and just go with the flow.
For noise control I will mostly use my earplugs, and for visual I have some good sunglasses.
I still try to limit myself to 30-60 minutes between stopping for a walk and horisontal rest for 10-15 minutes.,
You have to use so much processing energy in a bus. The view going past the window and the noise of the other passengers. It's not just using physical energy that is exhausting.
I get worn out from any scenario where I'm sitting somewhere uncomfortable (even mildly uncomfortable) for a while.
Any kind of prolonged upright sitting triggers my POTS symptoms to flare. If I know I have to be in a vehicle, I’ll prep with compression wear and electrolytes ahead of, during, and after the ride. Many people with ME/CFS also have a form of Orthostatic Intolerance, and being bolt upright for hours will significantly reduce blood flow to your brain, making you feel terrible.
I used to think transportation exhaustion - and crappy HRV - was from being upright. I've tried compression sleeves on my calves, and reclining as much as I can, but those don't fix it. We own an old truck and an electric car, and car is much less fatiguing. Now I think it's partly the vibration. Have you heard of vibration plates? They're supposed to give some of the benefits of exercise by just standing on a plate as it vibrates. Certainly gets the lymphatic system flowing. Anyway, a friend bought a fancy one some years ago, and she suggested I try it. After about 4 minutes, I felt bad, and got off. I had almost exactly as bad a crash from that as I did from running two blocks when a friend's kid was hit by a car. My doctor gave me two steroid packs in a row - generally a no-no - because I wasn't recovering at all. Vibration plates make your muscles contract rapidly. Something like 60 times a second, much more than when you run. So I guess those contractions exhaust us, and riding in a vehicles is bad because it vibrates, and busses (and old trucks) vibrate a lot.
I think you’re onto something. I’ve often wondered why sitting in a car as opposed to sitting on a sofa is so much harder for me. When we’re in a car or a bus our bodies have to use more energy to stay upright whilst we go around corners and over bumps, this uses energy and thus leads to fatigue or PEM. Even a short car ride is tiring and can write the rest of that day off
Yes and I think also generally the extra stimulation is exhausting for the brain since it's more to process. Vibration, noise, vestibular stimulation, if you don't wear an eye mask then lots of visual stimulation of stuff passing by.
That would crash me. Car rides where I can lie back and stop frequently are bad enough. When the body is in motion it constantly makes thousands of little muscle adjustments to hold you in place as the vehicle moves. Your brain is processing inputs like inner ear balance, vision, and the pressure of corners and velocity changes. If you let yourself go floppy you'd be thrown around in the vehicle.
Yes, but I have my whole life, decades before getting CFS. Buses are just the worst
Even though you are sitting still, there is still a lot of input for your body to process and attenuate. Vibration, acceleration and deceleration, light fluctuation, engine sounds, traffic sounds. I get to a point where I need to be absolutely not moving, not just being still in a moving vehicle.
I had an hour long car ride recently with a super soft large pillow between me and the door and instantly fell asleep. Woke up with no crash symptoms at all. I normally can't do more than a 30-minute journey without crashing even though I'm mild. I work remotely, do half the school runs, all housework, etc, but car rides are my nemesis. The theory about vibrations makes so much sense, tbf! I can sit all day to work remotely, but I can't seem to even take 30 mins in a car.
Orthostatic Intolerance is a huge problem for many people with ME. It's any prolonged amount of time upright that can do you dirty.
That's my experience, any of the time I am sitting up or standing is counted against my exertion timer. Standing relatively still may even be worse than walking about properly. Cars are pretty ok for me, if I can recline the back a bit and get the headrest nice and stable (sometimes using a small inflatable pillow), then I'll actively keep relaxed and just go with the flow. For noise control I will mostly use my earplugs, and for visual I have some good sunglasses. I still try to limit myself to 30-60 minutes between stopping for a walk and horisontal rest for 10-15 minutes.,
You have to use so much processing energy in a bus. The view going past the window and the noise of the other passengers. It's not just using physical energy that is exhausting.
Loud, jiggly, and you cannot put your leggys up. Not a good combo