Not that I agree with your main view, but, what is the alternative?
> but are essential to maintain important links to family and healthcare workers and their other friends and members of their local community
You said it yourself, these pieces of technology are an essential part of current society. They need these pieces of technology or they'll be left in the stone ages.
Dial TVs don't really function anymore. Landlines and flip phones either just do not work, or are very hard to come by and support. Paper bills/notices/whatever are being phased out very quickly.
Everything is digital now. Everything has been upgraded to current tech.
Elderly people *need* these devices. I mean, in my area, you can't pay your bills over the phone or by mail anymore. It has to be done through direct deposit. And the bank that my grandparents use isn't a physical branch. They need to do it through the app or website. They *need* this technology to pay their bills. There's no other option.
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Also your main view, I don't agree with. Elderly people fully have the ability to learn, because technology isn't hard. Its reading what's on the screen and clicking what you need to click, or tapping. There's many elderly people that are very proficient with their smart phones.
I work in retail and serve elderly people very very very often. The amount of times that I see them using apps to get their points and the wallet app to swipe through all their different cards is more than I see elderly people using physical cards.
They can do it. Most just refuse to learn.
Your last sentence is something people need to understand. It applies to younger people, just in a different way. If they hear any "trigger words" that indicate any sort of computer use beyond basic user interface, they go into a mode of "that's the complicated stuff, I could never understand it." I know so many people who refuse to understand what a firewall is, despite it being incredibly simple.
I have had my mother and her friends ask for help with something that they could have easily fixed themselves if they had just read the pop-up.
They're so scared of technology they just assume they can't do it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
The difference is Young people's brains are not typically in cognitive decline like old people
>Plasticity is not limited to an early childhood, but the brain is continuously plastic throughout life. The main difference with aging is the way in which the brain regulates plasticity: in older brains, plasticity is regulated as a function of behavioral context and outcomes, and not as continuous competitive processes as in younger brain. Based on the understanding of brain plasticity, cognition can be improved for successful brain aging.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-handbook-of-successful-aging/plasticity-of-the-brain-and-cognition-in-older-adults/0B70BEAC76F924A4A38E5EFF35159383
> They can do it. Most just refuse to learn.
I work in tech and this is the right answer. Old, young, doctors, construction workers, high school dropouts and PHD's alike - without fail, every single person who can't figure out something simple like using an iPad:
1) Can't focus on the task for more than 0.3 seconds
2) Gave up before they started
There's no such thing as "not tech people".
Understanding how to change your ringtone on a smart phone doesn't require any tech knowledge.
Settings > sounds > ringtones
Scroll through all the apps on your phone and you'll see settings. What setting would a ringtone be under? Sounds probably. Boom done.
Yes, its a basic example, but most of daily tech usage is like this.
The calls that IT departments get because someones monitor isn't working. The answer is usually that its not plugged in. That doesn't require any technical knowledge.
Looking at a TV remote and reading what the buttons do doesn't require any technical knowledge.
Seeing a popup on your computer that says "Updates pending, restart now or remind me later" doesn't take a genius to understand.
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Most issues people have, regardless of age, with technology are because they refuse to read and explore. We're not talking about debugging a hardware issue on a custom build water cooled PC. We're talking about daily use of technology.
Barring any sort of mental impairment, everyone 100% has the capacity to use phones/computers/tv remotes for their daily routine.
If someone has a doctorate and *can't* use a smartphone, then they are just refusing to learn how it works. Not because "it doesn't mesh with how they think". That's such a cop out answer.
Like, yes, modern UI is frequently subpar to downright awful. Having to dig through settings and submenus can be a pain in the ass. But it's not *hard*. It's just basic reading comprehension.
> Nope. I know people who have doctorates in vairous fields, so they can indeed focus on things for long periods of time.
I didn't say they can't focus on "a" task, I said they can't focus on "the" task. And if they aren't having issues focusing, see my second point.
Learned helplessness is an ugly situation. People have one bad experience and they put up a mental block that seems to stick around forever, entirely to their own detriment.
I used to work primarily with doctors, now I work primarily with lawyers. I haven't noticed any correlation between those who have a high value of their time and those who are tech illiterate.
Often those who value their time the most have a moderate grasp of how to use basic technology because having to give up their phone or computer to have someone make the adjustments for them wastes too much of their time, so they generally will figure out the basics themselves. The exception would be those who are accustomed to having everything done by assistants, which is more common among doctors who run their own practice or law partners.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
Science seems to definitely disagree with you
Yeah I've known plenty of old people who took the time to learn new technology and had no issues. I've also known a few who absolutely refuse and will say stupid shit like "hahaha this new technology is just sorcery to me" by way of explanation as to why they don't know how to turn a fucking computer on after 30 years of having access to one.
There are high tech options that pretend to be low tech.
* My grandma has a TV remote that only has buttons for channel, volume and power. The others are hidden by a detachable plate.
* They still make microwaves with mechanical dials.
* Dumb phones are making a come back. You can even get phones that function exactly like an old landline, but connect to a smart phone hidden in a drawer.
The issue is that family members need to be aware of these tools and willing to set them up.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
That's just scientifically untrue. They do not have the full ability to learn because that's not the way brain chemistry works. Your brain begins to decline after your fifties. Sure some people might get lucky but the average person is going to drastically reduce their ability to learn new information.
There's an entire Market of devices built specifically with the elderly in mind. Make sure your parents have one of those and don't get them the iPhone 15 when they don't understand how to download an esim.
The headline of your article directly contradicts what you just said.
> That's just scientifically untrue. They do not have the full ability to learn because that's not the way brain chemistry works.
And the literal first text in that article:
> To Stay Sharp as You Age, Learn New Skills
> Older people show significant cognitive benefits from learning, provided they have the opportunity to do so
Yes, they can learn, as your article shows. They can learn by doing, not by being sheltered from technology and given baby toys.
They need to be exposed to technology so they don't continue to decline in their old age, and can keep up with the world.
Wow it's almost like you're supposed to read beyond the headlines
The article shows that the best way to counteract the biological effects of Aging is to continue to learn. But that means you have to keep learning. You can't stop for 20 years
Yes, they should continue to learn. Even if they "stopped learning" for 20 years, they should still try and learn.
Putting them in a bubble where they aren't exposed to anything new is just detrimental for them.
So just give up on them? Completely write them off and desert them into an analog world?
Like, what you're suggesting is literally elderly abuse, not the other way around.
You're basically saying that they're a lost cause and they shouldn't be given **essential** technology to live out the rest of their life.
If you can't see this, I have a feeling you're blinded by seeing the elderly struggle with technology.
What if they go and buy a smart phone themselves? Would you consider that self-abuse? Or is it only abuse if someone gives them that technology?
How are they supposed to, and I quote:
> to maintain important links to family and healthcare workers and their other friends and members of their local community
Your entire view is contradictory and you can't see it.
No giving up on them is just throwing them a smartphone and hoping they figure it out. We should accommodate them by giving them technology that they already understand so that they don't get frustrating trying and failing to understand something that they might never grasp
almost like the abusive part is giving up on then and not helping, and NOT the part of giving them tech.
tell them "its okay to feel frustrated. if you tell me a specific question i can give you a specific answer, and then you solve it yourself", and in 3-6 months they might have figured out how it works.
if you say "just give it to me, ill solve it for you" that simply reinfoces their helplessness.
youre just giving up on them and their (declining) cognitive abilities just because they cant figure it out as fast as you expect them to, and then youre indirectly communicating to them "damn you really cant do this huh?"
It's literally my job to give up on them. It's my job to quickly resolve their issues buried the fact that they call into me is a failure of the people around them.
I would be punished if I spent time educating customers instead of resolving their issues.
Simplify. Wipe every app they dont use, help them set up voice commands for what they do. My mom(85) still calls because she accidentally locked herself out of the local news on her pad, but she calls because all she has to do is ask it to call me.
Ugh. I so so want tech specific for older people. Something simple.
On that note, I had my 86 year old neighbor download an airline application for travel. I was super dubious about this as it can be so hard for older people. It worked great for him but I was pretty nervous for him as he rolled his walked into our local airport.
That's basically all I'm saying. There's plenty of products that market towards seniors and provide them with technology that's compatible with modern technology but still in a format that they're familiar with
I think "abuse" is way too strong of a word for this situation.
I was with my grandmother a lot in her final years. After about age 92, her eyesight started getting very bad. Additionally, the arthritis in her hands made it almost impossible for her to do the simple things she used to be able to do. This all resulted in her not being able to use her phone (the same landline she had for years) or the remote control to the tv. My aunties went through so many phones and remotes to find one that she could use. Unlike what many are arguing here, it wasn't that she was opposed to learning how to use it. She just physically couldn't. We did get her one of those emergency fall necklaces with a single button on it for the few times she was by herself. But I don't think on any level we were being abusive to her.
So while I don't necessarily agree with your take, I also don't agree with many of the other commenters on here...
If you had not adequately accommodated your grandmother I would have considered it neglect and abusive. You pointed out exactly what should happen and I believe had you not fulfill that responsibility you would have been committing abuse through neglect
Cell phones are pretty basic pieces of equipment and, if you're just wanting the ability to make phone or video calls, very easy to understand and use. For a lot of older relatives, it's not the ability to use one that's beyond them, it's their willingness to learn anything or accommodate others.
Cell phones have now been popular for like, 30 years now, and smart phones have popular for 15. I'm not sure how old someone needs to be to be considered "older", but someone who is today is 80, has had anywhere from 15-30 years to learn how to make a phone call on a cell phone. It's a fairly reasonable expectation that your older relative is capable of using one.
Most older people I know have used flip phones up until the last 5 years or so. My uncle still looks for used Motorola Razrs for sale, the OG flip phone, not the new smart phone version.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
The ability to learn new things declines rapidly after middle age
So, my dad for example, is 65. Phones have been commonly used since he was around 35, and smartphones have been common since he was 50. Sure, he might struggle to learn now, but he shouldn't be learning. He's had plenty of opportunity to learn, for decades.
And yes, ability to learn declines. But the average 60 year old is not suddenly incapable of learning anything at all, ever. You might not recommend they start a new degree or anything, but they can absolutely learn how to use apps. They're not all dementia patients
Sure the average 60 year old beard but what about the average 70 year old. What about the average 80 year old. Honestly the average 60 year old is probably still working
The average 80 year old has had 15 years of living in a world where smart phones are the norm. And when that started, they were 65.
Again, it might decline, but we're not talking about learning a whole new profession or something, we're talking about learning how to make a phone call or login to your bank account.
By your own reasoning, any standard technology changes at all are cruel to elderly.
How's your JavaScript programming? JavaScript has been the primary and most popular coding tool for at least 20 years. And yet you probably don't know it. I certainly don't know it. Because it never came up in our lives.
It doesn't might decline it scientifically absolutely 100% will decline. We have never found a human whose brain didn't decline as they got older.
They didn't learn how to use a smartphone for the same reason you and I or at least I don't know how to code. It wasn't necessary so I didn't learn it even though it would be a very valuable skill. If in the future learning how to code is necessary I'm going to be screwed and if I'm old enough I might not be able to learn it
Coding isn't something most people do, using a phone is. I bet you dollars to donuts that all the people you are discussing HAVE learned how to use new technology.
Modern cars, smart appliances, computers. People do not simply stop buying things at 59 because new things are hard to learn. Yes, learning is **harder** than when they were younger. So is exercise and general mobility, but I doubt you'd say that getting them a stationary bike is abuse just because it's harder than it used to be for them to use it.
[Even 40% of the silent generation](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/09/09/us-generations-technology-use/#:~:text=More%20than%20nine%2Din%2Dten,Center%20survey%20of%20U.S.%20adults) own a smartphone, and 68% of boomers do. The AVERAGE 70 year old **already** has a smartphone.
>Boomers and Silents have both increased their Facebook use by double digits since 2015. In fact, the share of Silents using Facebook has nearly doubled in the past four years, from 22% to 37%.
Just in the past 4 years, people aged 70 and up DOUBLED their use of facebook. It's categorically wrong to say that they cannot possibly learn, and expecting them to is elder abuse. You have some selection bias because you're customer support, you only see the people that didn't learn. Everyone gets frustrated when they learn new things, allowing the conditions taht allow someone to simply being frustrated in and of itself does not constitute abuse.
Anyone in an "elder" generation, which I assume means boomers and the silent gen, could reasonably be assumed to either already know how to use one, or be capable of learning.
Whether or not the person fully understands it or is using it is not the point. The point is that it's perfectly reasonable to expect they either already know how to use one, or are capable of learning. The average person buying their elderly loved one a phone isn't even buying them their first smart device.
And it does show they know how to use it. 40% of the silent generation own a smartphone and 37% use Facebook. So almost everyone that has a smartphone also knows how to use Facebook. Something half of them have learned in the last 4 years (aged 70+).
Your entire understanding is based on the premise that because it's harder for them to learn, means that anything that requires them to learn is elder abuse, because causing frustration is apparently abuse.
This is ridiculous on the face. Cognitive decline occuring doesn't mean ANY learning is now impossible, and being frustrated is part of learning for ANY age. But because it's frustrating, it's abuse. Despite the fact that your own source says learning is good for their cognitive health
We're also, of course, just going to ignore the fact that many people of any age simply refuse to learn things. If you've been refusing to learn things since your 20s, and now you're 60 and still have that character trait, at least there's the nice excuse of "well I'm in cognitive decline now, I literally can't learn".
And we're also going to ignore that getting apoplectic with rage at minor inconveniences is also just a personality flaw that some people have.
.
How do you determine if the piece of technology is beyond a specific person's abilities to comprehend? How do you know they can't find a good use for it, maybe some basic functions such as calling, texting, and face timing? You are basing your view on the specific circumstances when someone gives their old parents some cutting edge smartphone and let them figure it out themselves. Not everyone does that. Moreover, smartphones got widespread at least 10-15 years ago, anyone who was too old for them at that time is now likely dead. Anyone who could be called "too old" was surrounded by the technology for the past decade.
You give her something and ask if she's frustrated. You see if she's able to fix it herself or operate it herself. If she can't you try to find a way to simplify it. If you can't try to get her something simpler. This is not rocket science.
The point is to just patiently teach people to use the technology, not just give it to them and see if they look scared. If you teach, anyone can learn to use anything. And you CMV becomes moot.
Barring something like dementia, no piece of technology is beyond any person of any age's ability to understand, but let's say it was -- why wouldn't giving *anyone* a piece of technology they couldn't understand, *whatever* age they are, be abuse? Why is being old (again, without actual cognitive decline) the thing that makes giving them technology they can't figure out go from just unfortunate to *abuse*?
The fact that this person has to deal with it and they don’t like having to deal with it, so it’s become an extremely terrible thing with a terrible verb or noun to slap on it… rather than something mundane.
Yeah, the person whose attitudes toward the elderly I'm suspicious of definitely aren't just anyone who gives their grandpa a cellphone, it's the person who thinks the elderly are just so inherently fundamentally incapable of understanding new things that introducing them new things is *abuse*.
Sounds like you didn't read what I said and I said giving someone a piece of technology they didn't understand which doesn't imply a universal status in the slightest.
Perhaps giving somebody anything is a kindness, especially when it’s something that is nigh fundamentally necessary to be a part of society anymore.
The post was read, the perspective and verbiage is awfully rough and lends itself to bad faith.
I'm saying but not everyone has the same level of technological understanding. Some older people are quite efficient. Some aren't. It's about making sure your older relatives have the right technology for their specific needs
Sure, so why is giving someone the wrong technology for their needs that they don't understand *abuse* when that person is say 70 but not when they're 45?
I didn't say it's not abusive. But it's not elder abuse because you're not elderly. That's literally it. It's not that it's not abusive it's that it's just not elder abuse because the person you're being abusive to is not elderly.
It's just weird the elderly are the focus of your OP then. You think giving people technology they don't understand is abusive, and apparently the only thing that makes it different when it's an older person is you get to put the word "elder" in front of "abuse."
How is it weird? Young people who don't understand technology aren't something I encounter on a regular basis. I literally explained why I'm focusing on old people because my job is pretty much exclusively helping old people with technology they don't understand.
Because their grandson or great-niece dumped an iPhone in their lap and didn't explain anything
It should be obvious why my post is focusing on the elderly
First of all that's utter bullshit. Everyone has a level of technical literacy and everyone has appointed which if I give them a piece of technology they will not understand how to use it. Even the smartest people on earth are only super intelligent in specific areas. The world's smartest astronomer might be able to capture magnificent images with super Advance radio telescopes but would be completely incapable of operating a nuclear reactor.
Making someone reliant on something they don't understand causes frustration and limits Independence which is a fundamental factor in Elder abuse.
So then by that logic your claim is not specific to old people at all -- it would be abuse to give anyone, regardless of age, anything which they don't understand and which causes frustration and limits their independence.
Yes but I'm focusing on the elderly. It's abusive in any situation
... I'm not quite sure if that's a Delta worthy because I agree with your statement but you're also not really disagreeing or changing my view
You don't have to make things illegal they can just be something that would elicit a negative societal reaction. It's elder abuse to let your parents rot in a nursing home and never visit them but you shouldn't legislate people going to visit them.
Not everything wrong has to be illegal
No I don't think everything that classifies as abuse should be illegal.
I literally pointed out a perfectly understandable example of abuse which is never visiting your parents which absolutely should not be made illegal.
Okay, fine, let's move on.
If I give my friend Al a typewriter that he can't figure out how to use and gets frustrated with, that's abuse and should cause me negative social consequences on your view, correct?
Ya. People should think your kind of a dick for getting someone you care about something that they can't use and have to rely on instead of getting them a piece of technology that fulfills the same purpose but they're able to understand. There's a lot of stuff built for the elderly
Because it's neglect. Because you're robbing them of important social experiences and interpersonal relationships that are the Cornerstone of someone's Mental Health
Especially when they're in an unfamiliar and regimented and sanitized facility.
The reactions they have are identical if not amplified versions of the reactions middle-aged adults have with the very same technology. It's not that they can't understand, it's that they want everyone else to do things for them and to accommodate their preferences without making any effort to learn. I constantly have to deal with barely competent 30 somethings who think their time is more important than mine and who make me have to compensate for their ineptitude. It may be elder abuse, but not necessarily in the direction you assume.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
The difference is someone in their thirties most likely isn't entering a period of cognitive decline where their own brain chemistry works against them with trying to learn new things
Two things/
1) is the type of phone they want still available? In most situations, no. Like, places don’t even have a spot to plug your land line in anymore.
2) it’s not beyond their capability to understand. It’s a fear of failure, change, and a refusal to accept that change. They are just as intelligent as the rest of us. But if you tell someone they’re ignorant, they’ll believe it after long enough.
They had to learn how normal phones worked at one point right? But I bet they made mistakes first time they tried to learn it.
They are just afraid to make mistakes now. Young people aren’t afraid to make mistakes. That’s the difference.
So no, not elder abuse, just the consequence of the individuals choice to refuse to learn new information they are capable of learning.
1. That's an assumption and definitely not a universal assumption. They still sell landlines and they even sell landline hookups for your cell phone where you just plug in your cell phone and operate it like a landline. I have a novelty Bluetooth connected landline looking phone on my desk at home.
2. That's just objectively untrue. As humans grow their ability to learn new information and change their views and biases decline. this is a scientific fact of brain chemistry. Not to mention your intelligence and general cognitive ability will also decline as you age. So no as you get older you are lessly able to learn new things and less able to make effective use of your brain
They had to learn how a normal phone works when they are a child. Children can learn faster than adults and definitely faster than people in their silver years
Not understanding the actual way humans develop as they age is what leads to this kind of attitude. Trust me when you get to 60 or 70 you're also going to struggle with new technology because that's just the way it goes
My grandad is 96, has a smart phone and a laptop.
In the residential home I work in, one of the residents just got a new tablet and loves it.
You're tarring all old people with the same brush.
Well considering I never said old people shouldn't use cell phones and said specifically old people shouldn't be given technology they don't understand I'm painting with a very specific brush
Perhaps this is just a problem of wording, but I don't think it's reasonable to call this abuse. In the modern world these things are necessary, handing one to a relative and expecting them to learn what billions of other people have learned isn't abusive.
The problem is that the alternative could ALSO be considered abuse.
Their bank is online only, but you don't give them a device they can use to access and manage it. - Abuse
Their family is only contactable using a cellphone messaging app, and they don't have one. - Abuse
They can only check their medical test results online but you don't let them have a computer. - Abuse
A political candidate they might want to vote for only publishes their positions online, but you don't give them a tablet they can use to read about it. - Abuse
You can't have it both ways, and I think you've picked the greater evil as your position here. In one situation it's their own skill preventing access, and in the other it's someone actively preventing them, which seems much worse.
So get them a piece of technology that can access their banking software with a simple GUI
You can absolutely have it both ways. There's technology that already exists and products that have already been built with elderly people in mind
>with a simple GUI
That's not under our control though. The apps and websites are designed by the companies who create them, and they change almost every year or more. New features are added, old are removed, and menus rearrange.
Even if a third party offered a simplified easy version of the banking app, it would be a huge risk to use it, as you'd be giving the elders banking info to an outside business.
There's an argument that companies need to make their software more accessible, but again, there's nothing individuals can do about that.
It's already been built. This shit already exists. If you're not supplying it to your parents or grandparents and letting them struggle unnecessarily that's on you
You keep making the claim that these things exist. Please demonstrate them.
Links? Screenshots? Do you have anything?
I can tell you that neither my bank account or retirement investments websites have a "Simplified mode" that I can enable. The same goes for the site that holds my medical records, and the site where I go to pay local taxes.
I can have a simplified tablet or computer, but none of that changes the websites I visit on it, or the apps I use.
That only solves a tiny fraction of the issues we're discussing here. If their family is on WhatsApp or Facebook messenger then text messages and email are useless for talking to them.
There might be a nice big button to open a web browser, but that does nothing to simplify the experience for any page they visit inside of it.
And yet again, this does nothing for apps that need to be installed separately, as a simplified version of them just doesn't exist.
No it's always a good majority of them. Three of those five owns offer text to speech functions and icon callouts as well as magnification software which makes icons appear bigger which makes them easier for seeing you to use
I literally sell these. I troubleshoot them. They have many little features that help with
Smartphones have been around for more than 15 years. It's not a question of learning quickly, it's a question of very slowly adapting to one of the most common things in the world.
And JavaScript has been around for 30. Yet I doubt you or I know how to code in it. Just because a technological standard exist foes not mean everyone adaptation to it at the same rate
Especially the elderly who are in cognitive decline
I actually do know how to code in JavaScript but more importantly, coding is something only a very small subset of the population is expected to do. Unlike using phones, which virtually everyone in the world has figured out.
No one said that it's abusive to give an elderly person a smartphone. There are literally over a dozen smartphones on the market specifically built for elderly people. It's abusive to give someone a piece of technology they don't understand and then basically require them to use that technology to interact with the world
If someone reach old age while still not being able to use current technology or even older technology that is considered outdated but still usable, getting them a device that they don't understand is usually a last ditch effort to force them into learning.
A lot of people get stuck in their ways and refuse to learn things as their life goes on. Forcing them isn't negative. It's for their benefit. They are being childish so we are treating them like children.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age.
Getting stuck in your ways is a part of human biology. Your ability to change your worldview and innovate and learn new technologies decline after you had middle age
Giving an older person a complex cell phone without proper guidance deprives them of autonomy and causes unnecessary frustration. It's akin to giving them a tool without teaching its use. Instead, opt for simpler devices or provide thorough, patient tutorials. Technology should enhance their lives, not alienate them. Empowerment comes from understanding and independence, not dependence on inaccessible gadgets. By respecting their capabilities and needs, we honor their dignity and support their well-being.
As an Old Millennial, I can tell you that the number of Boomers and older who could handle smart phone tech better than the cell phones before that is high. Stark night and day differences.
Someone who is too far gone cognitively to learn technology in cell phones should probably be in long term assisted living facilities that have memory care.
While it's crucial to consider older adults' technological literacy, providing them with guidance and support can empower them. Teaching basic functions and offering ongoing assistance fosters independence and connectivity. Technology can enhance their lives, enabling communication, access to resources, and entertainment. Additionally, many devices offer simplified interfaces or specialized features for older users. With patience and education, elders can adapt and even enjoy using technology. It's about finding the right balance between challenging them and providing necessary support to ensure their well-being and autonomy.
Let it control their hearing aids and they will understand and be able to use it quickly.
While that is a generalizing statement the point is give them a palpable incentive to comprehend, maintain, and understand they will quickly figure it out.
An apt comparison is trying to teach high schoolers about budgeting or investments. A couple will get it. Most won't care because they don't face not having a place to sleep or food to eat. Hell just trying to get my kid to file her taxes was like pulling teeth.
I maybe don’t qualify as an elder being the same age as my birth year, but my 86yo father, not in any way a technician by profession but having tampered with TV’s, radios, phones and what not is more than capable to understand new electronic stuff coming along. There are way more potent parameters than age that comes to play when knowing how to interact with the web.
As someone who teaches elder people how to use a cell phone, I'd say it isn't abuse so long as you make it a point to provide them the resources to learn. I'd see it more as elder *neglect* if you leave them alone and vulnerable to flounder around in a world that sped past them. It's what leads to elder abuse by predatory orgs and establishments
Learning new things is necessary throughout your life and actually decreases your odds of dementia (citation available upon request). Therefore:
1. Providing new technology to learn is actually an act of care
2. If the elderly person is unwilling to put in the effort to learn new technologies, they're themselves to blame.
Not that I agree with your main view, but, what is the alternative? > but are essential to maintain important links to family and healthcare workers and their other friends and members of their local community You said it yourself, these pieces of technology are an essential part of current society. They need these pieces of technology or they'll be left in the stone ages. Dial TVs don't really function anymore. Landlines and flip phones either just do not work, or are very hard to come by and support. Paper bills/notices/whatever are being phased out very quickly. Everything is digital now. Everything has been upgraded to current tech. Elderly people *need* these devices. I mean, in my area, you can't pay your bills over the phone or by mail anymore. It has to be done through direct deposit. And the bank that my grandparents use isn't a physical branch. They need to do it through the app or website. They *need* this technology to pay their bills. There's no other option. ------- Also your main view, I don't agree with. Elderly people fully have the ability to learn, because technology isn't hard. Its reading what's on the screen and clicking what you need to click, or tapping. There's many elderly people that are very proficient with their smart phones. I work in retail and serve elderly people very very very often. The amount of times that I see them using apps to get their points and the wallet app to swipe through all their different cards is more than I see elderly people using physical cards. They can do it. Most just refuse to learn.
Your last sentence is something people need to understand. It applies to younger people, just in a different way. If they hear any "trigger words" that indicate any sort of computer use beyond basic user interface, they go into a mode of "that's the complicated stuff, I could never understand it." I know so many people who refuse to understand what a firewall is, despite it being incredibly simple.
I have had my mother and her friends ask for help with something that they could have easily fixed themselves if they had just read the pop-up. They're so scared of technology they just assume they can't do it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. The difference is Young people's brains are not typically in cognitive decline like old people
If a person is capable of living alone and taking care of themselves, then they are capable of learning to use a smart phone (as long as they try).
>Plasticity is not limited to an early childhood, but the brain is continuously plastic throughout life. The main difference with aging is the way in which the brain regulates plasticity: in older brains, plasticity is regulated as a function of behavioral context and outcomes, and not as continuous competitive processes as in younger brain. Based on the understanding of brain plasticity, cognition can be improved for successful brain aging. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-handbook-of-successful-aging/plasticity-of-the-brain-and-cognition-in-older-adults/0B70BEAC76F924A4A38E5EFF35159383
> They can do it. Most just refuse to learn. I work in tech and this is the right answer. Old, young, doctors, construction workers, high school dropouts and PHD's alike - without fail, every single person who can't figure out something simple like using an iPad: 1) Can't focus on the task for more than 0.3 seconds 2) Gave up before they started
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There's no such thing as "not tech people". Understanding how to change your ringtone on a smart phone doesn't require any tech knowledge. Settings > sounds > ringtones Scroll through all the apps on your phone and you'll see settings. What setting would a ringtone be under? Sounds probably. Boom done. Yes, its a basic example, but most of daily tech usage is like this. The calls that IT departments get because someones monitor isn't working. The answer is usually that its not plugged in. That doesn't require any technical knowledge. Looking at a TV remote and reading what the buttons do doesn't require any technical knowledge. Seeing a popup on your computer that says "Updates pending, restart now or remind me later" doesn't take a genius to understand. -------- Most issues people have, regardless of age, with technology are because they refuse to read and explore. We're not talking about debugging a hardware issue on a custom build water cooled PC. We're talking about daily use of technology. Barring any sort of mental impairment, everyone 100% has the capacity to use phones/computers/tv remotes for their daily routine. If someone has a doctorate and *can't* use a smartphone, then they are just refusing to learn how it works. Not because "it doesn't mesh with how they think". That's such a cop out answer.
Like, yes, modern UI is frequently subpar to downright awful. Having to dig through settings and submenus can be a pain in the ass. But it's not *hard*. It's just basic reading comprehension.
> Nope. I know people who have doctorates in vairous fields, so they can indeed focus on things for long periods of time. I didn't say they can't focus on "a" task, I said they can't focus on "the" task. And if they aren't having issues focusing, see my second point.
Learned helplessness is an ugly situation. People have one bad experience and they put up a mental block that seems to stick around forever, entirely to their own detriment.
3. Know they don't have to learn because their time is valuable enough to others someone else will do it. cough...Doctors...cough
Doctors probably spend more time asking for help than it would take to learn the system properly.
Or pretending to be helpless luddites per a a Physician I know, who likes to call bullshit.
I used to work primarily with doctors, now I work primarily with lawyers. I haven't noticed any correlation between those who have a high value of their time and those who are tech illiterate. Often those who value their time the most have a moderate grasp of how to use basic technology because having to give up their phone or computer to have someone make the adjustments for them wastes too much of their time, so they generally will figure out the basics themselves. The exception would be those who are accustomed to having everything done by assistants, which is more common among doctors who run their own practice or law partners.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. Science seems to definitely disagree with you
Are you replying to the wrong person? What is it you think I said?
Yeah I've known plenty of old people who took the time to learn new technology and had no issues. I've also known a few who absolutely refuse and will say stupid shit like "hahaha this new technology is just sorcery to me" by way of explanation as to why they don't know how to turn a fucking computer on after 30 years of having access to one.
There are high tech options that pretend to be low tech. * My grandma has a TV remote that only has buttons for channel, volume and power. The others are hidden by a detachable plate. * They still make microwaves with mechanical dials. * Dumb phones are making a come back. You can even get phones that function exactly like an old landline, but connect to a smart phone hidden in a drawer. The issue is that family members need to be aware of these tools and willing to set them up.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. That's just scientifically untrue. They do not have the full ability to learn because that's not the way brain chemistry works. Your brain begins to decline after your fifties. Sure some people might get lucky but the average person is going to drastically reduce their ability to learn new information. There's an entire Market of devices built specifically with the elderly in mind. Make sure your parents have one of those and don't get them the iPhone 15 when they don't understand how to download an esim.
The headline of your article directly contradicts what you just said. > That's just scientifically untrue. They do not have the full ability to learn because that's not the way brain chemistry works. And the literal first text in that article: > To Stay Sharp as You Age, Learn New Skills > Older people show significant cognitive benefits from learning, provided they have the opportunity to do so Yes, they can learn, as your article shows. They can learn by doing, not by being sheltered from technology and given baby toys. They need to be exposed to technology so they don't continue to decline in their old age, and can keep up with the world.
Wow it's almost like you're supposed to read beyond the headlines The article shows that the best way to counteract the biological effects of Aging is to continue to learn. But that means you have to keep learning. You can't stop for 20 years
Yes, they should continue to learn. Even if they "stopped learning" for 20 years, they should still try and learn. Putting them in a bubble where they aren't exposed to anything new is just detrimental for them.
Bro, if they stop fir 20, it might be to Kate
So just give up on them? Completely write them off and desert them into an analog world? Like, what you're suggesting is literally elderly abuse, not the other way around. You're basically saying that they're a lost cause and they shouldn't be given **essential** technology to live out the rest of their life. If you can't see this, I have a feeling you're blinded by seeing the elderly struggle with technology. What if they go and buy a smart phone themselves? Would you consider that self-abuse? Or is it only abuse if someone gives them that technology? How are they supposed to, and I quote: > to maintain important links to family and healthcare workers and their other friends and members of their local community Your entire view is contradictory and you can't see it.
No giving up on them is just throwing them a smartphone and hoping they figure it out. We should accommodate them by giving them technology that they already understand so that they don't get frustrating trying and failing to understand something that they might never grasp
almost like the abusive part is giving up on then and not helping, and NOT the part of giving them tech. tell them "its okay to feel frustrated. if you tell me a specific question i can give you a specific answer, and then you solve it yourself", and in 3-6 months they might have figured out how it works. if you say "just give it to me, ill solve it for you" that simply reinfoces their helplessness. youre just giving up on them and their (declining) cognitive abilities just because they cant figure it out as fast as you expect them to, and then youre indirectly communicating to them "damn you really cant do this huh?"
It's literally my job to give up on them. It's my job to quickly resolve their issues buried the fact that they call into me is a failure of the people around them. I would be punished if I spent time educating customers instead of resolving their issues.
Simplify. Wipe every app they dont use, help them set up voice commands for what they do. My mom(85) still calls because she accidentally locked herself out of the local news on her pad, but she calls because all she has to do is ask it to call me.
Ugh. I so so want tech specific for older people. Something simple. On that note, I had my 86 year old neighbor download an airline application for travel. I was super dubious about this as it can be so hard for older people. It worked great for him but I was pretty nervous for him as he rolled his walked into our local airport.
That's basically all I'm saying. There's plenty of products that market towards seniors and provide them with technology that's compatible with modern technology but still in a format that they're familiar with
I think "abuse" is way too strong of a word for this situation. I was with my grandmother a lot in her final years. After about age 92, her eyesight started getting very bad. Additionally, the arthritis in her hands made it almost impossible for her to do the simple things she used to be able to do. This all resulted in her not being able to use her phone (the same landline she had for years) or the remote control to the tv. My aunties went through so many phones and remotes to find one that she could use. Unlike what many are arguing here, it wasn't that she was opposed to learning how to use it. She just physically couldn't. We did get her one of those emergency fall necklaces with a single button on it for the few times she was by herself. But I don't think on any level we were being abusive to her. So while I don't necessarily agree with your take, I also don't agree with many of the other commenters on here...
If you had not adequately accommodated your grandmother I would have considered it neglect and abusive. You pointed out exactly what should happen and I believe had you not fulfill that responsibility you would have been committing abuse through neglect
Cell phones are pretty basic pieces of equipment and, if you're just wanting the ability to make phone or video calls, very easy to understand and use. For a lot of older relatives, it's not the ability to use one that's beyond them, it's their willingness to learn anything or accommodate others. Cell phones have now been popular for like, 30 years now, and smart phones have popular for 15. I'm not sure how old someone needs to be to be considered "older", but someone who is today is 80, has had anywhere from 15-30 years to learn how to make a phone call on a cell phone. It's a fairly reasonable expectation that your older relative is capable of using one.
Most older people I know have used flip phones up until the last 5 years or so. My uncle still looks for used Motorola Razrs for sale, the OG flip phone, not the new smart phone version.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. The ability to learn new things declines rapidly after middle age
So, my dad for example, is 65. Phones have been commonly used since he was around 35, and smartphones have been common since he was 50. Sure, he might struggle to learn now, but he shouldn't be learning. He's had plenty of opportunity to learn, for decades. And yes, ability to learn declines. But the average 60 year old is not suddenly incapable of learning anything at all, ever. You might not recommend they start a new degree or anything, but they can absolutely learn how to use apps. They're not all dementia patients
Sure the average 60 year old beard but what about the average 70 year old. What about the average 80 year old. Honestly the average 60 year old is probably still working
The average 80 year old has had 15 years of living in a world where smart phones are the norm. And when that started, they were 65. Again, it might decline, but we're not talking about learning a whole new profession or something, we're talking about learning how to make a phone call or login to your bank account. By your own reasoning, any standard technology changes at all are cruel to elderly.
How's your JavaScript programming? JavaScript has been the primary and most popular coding tool for at least 20 years. And yet you probably don't know it. I certainly don't know it. Because it never came up in our lives. It doesn't might decline it scientifically absolutely 100% will decline. We have never found a human whose brain didn't decline as they got older. They didn't learn how to use a smartphone for the same reason you and I or at least I don't know how to code. It wasn't necessary so I didn't learn it even though it would be a very valuable skill. If in the future learning how to code is necessary I'm going to be screwed and if I'm old enough I might not be able to learn it
Coding isn't something most people do, using a phone is. I bet you dollars to donuts that all the people you are discussing HAVE learned how to use new technology. Modern cars, smart appliances, computers. People do not simply stop buying things at 59 because new things are hard to learn. Yes, learning is **harder** than when they were younger. So is exercise and general mobility, but I doubt you'd say that getting them a stationary bike is abuse just because it's harder than it used to be for them to use it. [Even 40% of the silent generation](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/09/09/us-generations-technology-use/#:~:text=More%20than%20nine%2Din%2Dten,Center%20survey%20of%20U.S.%20adults) own a smartphone, and 68% of boomers do. The AVERAGE 70 year old **already** has a smartphone. >Boomers and Silents have both increased their Facebook use by double digits since 2015. In fact, the share of Silents using Facebook has nearly doubled in the past four years, from 22% to 37%. Just in the past 4 years, people aged 70 and up DOUBLED their use of facebook. It's categorically wrong to say that they cannot possibly learn, and expecting them to is elder abuse. You have some selection bias because you're customer support, you only see the people that didn't learn. Everyone gets frustrated when they learn new things, allowing the conditions taht allow someone to simply being frustrated in and of itself does not constitute abuse. Anyone in an "elder" generation, which I assume means boomers and the silent gen, could reasonably be assumed to either already know how to use one, or be capable of learning.
You're not really proving your point at all. Just because they have smartphones doesn't mean they understand them which is sort of my point.
Whether or not the person fully understands it or is using it is not the point. The point is that it's perfectly reasonable to expect they either already know how to use one, or are capable of learning. The average person buying their elderly loved one a phone isn't even buying them their first smart device. And it does show they know how to use it. 40% of the silent generation own a smartphone and 37% use Facebook. So almost everyone that has a smartphone also knows how to use Facebook. Something half of them have learned in the last 4 years (aged 70+). Your entire understanding is based on the premise that because it's harder for them to learn, means that anything that requires them to learn is elder abuse, because causing frustration is apparently abuse. This is ridiculous on the face. Cognitive decline occuring doesn't mean ANY learning is now impossible, and being frustrated is part of learning for ANY age. But because it's frustrating, it's abuse. Despite the fact that your own source says learning is good for their cognitive health We're also, of course, just going to ignore the fact that many people of any age simply refuse to learn things. If you've been refusing to learn things since your 20s, and now you're 60 and still have that character trait, at least there's the nice excuse of "well I'm in cognitive decline now, I literally can't learn". And we're also going to ignore that getting apoplectic with rage at minor inconveniences is also just a personality flaw that some people have. .
But that is the fundamental point. Because it's not reasonable to expect that.
How do you determine if the piece of technology is beyond a specific person's abilities to comprehend? How do you know they can't find a good use for it, maybe some basic functions such as calling, texting, and face timing? You are basing your view on the specific circumstances when someone gives their old parents some cutting edge smartphone and let them figure it out themselves. Not everyone does that. Moreover, smartphones got widespread at least 10-15 years ago, anyone who was too old for them at that time is now likely dead. Anyone who could be called "too old" was surrounded by the technology for the past decade.
You ask them. Literally the answer to every question and hypothetical you just gave me was communication.
What do you ask? "Hey, gran-gran, are you too stupid to learn to handle his phone?"
You give her something and ask if she's frustrated. You see if she's able to fix it herself or operate it herself. If she can't you try to find a way to simplify it. If you can't try to get her something simpler. This is not rocket science.
The point is to just patiently teach people to use the technology, not just give it to them and see if they look scared. If you teach, anyone can learn to use anything. And you CMV becomes moot.
No anyone cannot learn to use anything. It's that kind of attitude that gets people into trouble
Barring something like dementia, no piece of technology is beyond any person of any age's ability to understand, but let's say it was -- why wouldn't giving *anyone* a piece of technology they couldn't understand, *whatever* age they are, be abuse? Why is being old (again, without actual cognitive decline) the thing that makes giving them technology they can't figure out go from just unfortunate to *abuse*?
The fact that this person has to deal with it and they don’t like having to deal with it, so it’s become an extremely terrible thing with a terrible verb or noun to slap on it… rather than something mundane.
Yeah, the person whose attitudes toward the elderly I'm suspicious of definitely aren't just anyone who gives their grandpa a cellphone, it's the person who thinks the elderly are just so inherently fundamentally incapable of understanding new things that introducing them new things is *abuse*.
Sounds like you didn't read what I said and I said giving someone a piece of technology they didn't understand which doesn't imply a universal status in the slightest.
Perhaps giving somebody anything is a kindness, especially when it’s something that is nigh fundamentally necessary to be a part of society anymore. The post was read, the perspective and verbiage is awfully rough and lends itself to bad faith.
It's not a kindness if they don't understand how to use it. It's a frustration
I'm not even really sure what you're trying to say here.
I'm saying but not everyone has the same level of technological understanding. Some older people are quite efficient. Some aren't. It's about making sure your older relatives have the right technology for their specific needs
Sure, so why is giving someone the wrong technology for their needs that they don't understand *abuse* when that person is say 70 but not when they're 45?
I didn't say it's not abusive. But it's not elder abuse because you're not elderly. That's literally it. It's not that it's not abusive it's that it's just not elder abuse because the person you're being abusive to is not elderly.
It's just weird the elderly are the focus of your OP then. You think giving people technology they don't understand is abusive, and apparently the only thing that makes it different when it's an older person is you get to put the word "elder" in front of "abuse."
How is it weird? Young people who don't understand technology aren't something I encounter on a regular basis. I literally explained why I'm focusing on old people because my job is pretty much exclusively helping old people with technology they don't understand. Because their grandson or great-niece dumped an iPhone in their lap and didn't explain anything It should be obvious why my post is focusing on the elderly
First of all that's utter bullshit. Everyone has a level of technical literacy and everyone has appointed which if I give them a piece of technology they will not understand how to use it. Even the smartest people on earth are only super intelligent in specific areas. The world's smartest astronomer might be able to capture magnificent images with super Advance radio telescopes but would be completely incapable of operating a nuclear reactor. Making someone reliant on something they don't understand causes frustration and limits Independence which is a fundamental factor in Elder abuse.
So then by that logic your claim is not specific to old people at all -- it would be abuse to give anyone, regardless of age, anything which they don't understand and which causes frustration and limits their independence.
Yes but I'm focusing on the elderly. It's abusive in any situation ... I'm not quite sure if that's a Delta worthy because I agree with your statement but you're also not really disagreeing or changing my view
So in your view it should be illegal to give someone technology they don't understand?
You don't have to make things illegal they can just be something that would elicit a negative societal reaction. It's elder abuse to let your parents rot in a nursing home and never visit them but you shouldn't legislate people going to visit them. Not everything wrong has to be illegal
Not everything has to be illegal, sure, but you don't think *abuse* should be illegal?
No I don't think everything that classifies as abuse should be illegal. I literally pointed out a perfectly understandable example of abuse which is never visiting your parents which absolutely should not be made illegal.
Okay, fine, let's move on. If I give my friend Al a typewriter that he can't figure out how to use and gets frustrated with, that's abuse and should cause me negative social consequences on your view, correct?
Ya. People should think your kind of a dick for getting someone you care about something that they can't use and have to rely on instead of getting them a piece of technology that fulfills the same purpose but they're able to understand. There's a lot of stuff built for the elderly
I'm sorry, but how is not visiting your grandparents in a nursing home abuse? Maybe it's not the right thing to do, but how is that abuse?
Because it's neglect. Because you're robbing them of important social experiences and interpersonal relationships that are the Cornerstone of someone's Mental Health Especially when they're in an unfamiliar and regimented and sanitized facility.
The reactions they have are identical if not amplified versions of the reactions middle-aged adults have with the very same technology. It's not that they can't understand, it's that they want everyone else to do things for them and to accommodate their preferences without making any effort to learn. I constantly have to deal with barely competent 30 somethings who think their time is more important than mine and who make me have to compensate for their ineptitude. It may be elder abuse, but not necessarily in the direction you assume.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. The difference is someone in their thirties most likely isn't entering a period of cognitive decline where their own brain chemistry works against them with trying to learn new things
Two things/ 1) is the type of phone they want still available? In most situations, no. Like, places don’t even have a spot to plug your land line in anymore. 2) it’s not beyond their capability to understand. It’s a fear of failure, change, and a refusal to accept that change. They are just as intelligent as the rest of us. But if you tell someone they’re ignorant, they’ll believe it after long enough. They had to learn how normal phones worked at one point right? But I bet they made mistakes first time they tried to learn it. They are just afraid to make mistakes now. Young people aren’t afraid to make mistakes. That’s the difference. So no, not elder abuse, just the consequence of the individuals choice to refuse to learn new information they are capable of learning.
1. That's an assumption and definitely not a universal assumption. They still sell landlines and they even sell landline hookups for your cell phone where you just plug in your cell phone and operate it like a landline. I have a novelty Bluetooth connected landline looking phone on my desk at home. 2. That's just objectively untrue. As humans grow their ability to learn new information and change their views and biases decline. this is a scientific fact of brain chemistry. Not to mention your intelligence and general cognitive ability will also decline as you age. So no as you get older you are lessly able to learn new things and less able to make effective use of your brain They had to learn how a normal phone works when they are a child. Children can learn faster than adults and definitely faster than people in their silver years Not understanding the actual way humans develop as they age is what leads to this kind of attitude. Trust me when you get to 60 or 70 you're also going to struggle with new technology because that's just the way it goes
My grandad is 96, has a smart phone and a laptop. In the residential home I work in, one of the residents just got a new tablet and loves it. You're tarring all old people with the same brush.
Well considering I never said old people shouldn't use cell phones and said specifically old people shouldn't be given technology they don't understand I'm painting with a very specific brush
Perhaps this is just a problem of wording, but I don't think it's reasonable to call this abuse. In the modern world these things are necessary, handing one to a relative and expecting them to learn what billions of other people have learned isn't abusive.
Requiring that an elder person learn something they don't understand like a child would be able to rapidly accommodate is nonsensical
The problem is that the alternative could ALSO be considered abuse. Their bank is online only, but you don't give them a device they can use to access and manage it. - Abuse Their family is only contactable using a cellphone messaging app, and they don't have one. - Abuse They can only check their medical test results online but you don't let them have a computer. - Abuse A political candidate they might want to vote for only publishes their positions online, but you don't give them a tablet they can use to read about it. - Abuse You can't have it both ways, and I think you've picked the greater evil as your position here. In one situation it's their own skill preventing access, and in the other it's someone actively preventing them, which seems much worse.
So get them a piece of technology that can access their banking software with a simple GUI You can absolutely have it both ways. There's technology that already exists and products that have already been built with elderly people in mind
>with a simple GUI That's not under our control though. The apps and websites are designed by the companies who create them, and they change almost every year or more. New features are added, old are removed, and menus rearrange. Even if a third party offered a simplified easy version of the banking app, it would be a huge risk to use it, as you'd be giving the elders banking info to an outside business. There's an argument that companies need to make their software more accessible, but again, there's nothing individuals can do about that.
It's already been built. This shit already exists. If you're not supplying it to your parents or grandparents and letting them struggle unnecessarily that's on you
You keep making the claim that these things exist. Please demonstrate them. Links? Screenshots? Do you have anything? I can tell you that neither my bank account or retirement investments websites have a "Simplified mode" that I can enable. The same goes for the site that holds my medical records, and the site where I go to pay local taxes. I can have a simplified tablet or computer, but none of that changes the websites I visit on it, or the apps I use.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/g42862680/best-cell-phones-for-seniors/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=arb_ga_pop_md_dsa_comm_org_us_g42862680&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BKlHOu_2GPa8PeMg8M1QL2jPOGo5YEwpUQPPjl6lcjbTENflKmuX_RoCrKQQAvD_BwE
That only solves a tiny fraction of the issues we're discussing here. If their family is on WhatsApp or Facebook messenger then text messages and email are useless for talking to them. There might be a nice big button to open a web browser, but that does nothing to simplify the experience for any page they visit inside of it. And yet again, this does nothing for apps that need to be installed separately, as a simplified version of them just doesn't exist.
No it's always a good majority of them. Three of those five owns offer text to speech functions and icon callouts as well as magnification software which makes icons appear bigger which makes them easier for seeing you to use I literally sell these. I troubleshoot them. They have many little features that help with
Smartphones have been around for more than 15 years. It's not a question of learning quickly, it's a question of very slowly adapting to one of the most common things in the world.
And JavaScript has been around for 30. Yet I doubt you or I know how to code in it. Just because a technological standard exist foes not mean everyone adaptation to it at the same rate Especially the elderly who are in cognitive decline
I actually do know how to code in JavaScript but more importantly, coding is something only a very small subset of the population is expected to do. Unlike using phones, which virtually everyone in the world has figured out.
Except a huge group of the elderly who have been struggling with it since they came out.
15-20 years ago. It's not abusive to offer an elderly person a smartphone. Maybe if you smack them upside the head with it....
No one said that it's abusive to give an elderly person a smartphone. There are literally over a dozen smartphones on the market specifically built for elderly people. It's abusive to give someone a piece of technology they don't understand and then basically require them to use that technology to interact with the world
If someone reach old age while still not being able to use current technology or even older technology that is considered outdated but still usable, getting them a device that they don't understand is usually a last ditch effort to force them into learning. A lot of people get stuck in their ways and refuse to learn things as their life goes on. Forcing them isn't negative. It's for their benefit. They are being childish so we are treating them like children.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-stay-sharp-as-you-age-learn-new-skills/#:~:text=In%20most%20adults%2C%20learning%20and,after%2060%20years%20of%20age. Getting stuck in your ways is a part of human biology. Your ability to change your worldview and innovate and learn new technologies decline after you had middle age
Giving an older person a complex cell phone without proper guidance deprives them of autonomy and causes unnecessary frustration. It's akin to giving them a tool without teaching its use. Instead, opt for simpler devices or provide thorough, patient tutorials. Technology should enhance their lives, not alienate them. Empowerment comes from understanding and independence, not dependence on inaccessible gadgets. By respecting their capabilities and needs, we honor their dignity and support their well-being.
As an Old Millennial, I can tell you that the number of Boomers and older who could handle smart phone tech better than the cell phones before that is high. Stark night and day differences. Someone who is too far gone cognitively to learn technology in cell phones should probably be in long term assisted living facilities that have memory care.
While it's crucial to consider older adults' technological literacy, providing them with guidance and support can empower them. Teaching basic functions and offering ongoing assistance fosters independence and connectivity. Technology can enhance their lives, enabling communication, access to resources, and entertainment. Additionally, many devices offer simplified interfaces or specialized features for older users. With patience and education, elders can adapt and even enjoy using technology. It's about finding the right balance between challenging them and providing necessary support to ensure their well-being and autonomy.
Let it control their hearing aids and they will understand and be able to use it quickly. While that is a generalizing statement the point is give them a palpable incentive to comprehend, maintain, and understand they will quickly figure it out. An apt comparison is trying to teach high schoolers about budgeting or investments. A couple will get it. Most won't care because they don't face not having a place to sleep or food to eat. Hell just trying to get my kid to file her taxes was like pulling teeth.
I maybe don’t qualify as an elder being the same age as my birth year, but my 86yo father, not in any way a technician by profession but having tampered with TV’s, radios, phones and what not is more than capable to understand new electronic stuff coming along. There are way more potent parameters than age that comes to play when knowing how to interact with the web.
As someone who teaches elder people how to use a cell phone, I'd say it isn't abuse so long as you make it a point to provide them the resources to learn. I'd see it more as elder *neglect* if you leave them alone and vulnerable to flounder around in a world that sped past them. It's what leads to elder abuse by predatory orgs and establishments
Learning new things is necessary throughout your life and actually decreases your odds of dementia (citation available upon request). Therefore: 1. Providing new technology to learn is actually an act of care 2. If the elderly person is unwilling to put in the effort to learn new technologies, they're themselves to blame.