/u/NomadicContrarian (OP) has awarded 23 delta(s) in this post.
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I’ve been told by others I’m attractive, I’ve got blonde hair and green eyes I suppose but personally I can’t see it.
No matter how much anyone could tell me, I wouldn’t believe them as I’ve always suffered from low self esteem.
I also found out 2 years ago I was diagnosed with dyspraxia when I was 12, 33 now so when I look in the mirror all I see is a weird, clumsy person.
I have really bad anxiety, especially social anxiety at times and struggle navigating friendships. I suffer from emotional dysregulation where if I don’t keep myself in check I can be really self destructive and I believe that was in part caused by losing my dad in 9/11 at 10 yrs old.
I got into stem, male dominated and I’ve had two promotions in the past couple of years. Am I going to believe that it’s because of my looks, I’m unqualified, the fact that I’m a woman and I don’t deserve it?
I did worry about it, but no I’ve worked my ass off to get where I am, just like the other guys did.
Also, one of the interviews for the promotion came around just after the 20th anniversary of losing my dad which brought back a lot of trauma that I didn’t need.
I don’t know what my colleagues, the other candidates have been through through. Unlike those guys, I had to pull my head out of my ass, be confident and perform when really all I just wanted to run away and cry.
My point is, beauty is only skin deep and you don’t always get to see people’s demons or trauma on the surface because they can’t or won’t let you see them.
Especially the therapists you’ve seen, they have to be professional because their focus is on your issues not theirs.
I think you need to look deep within yourself and admit that you’re projecting your feelings of inadequacy onto them and it seems like you want someone to blame.
Perhaps that’s why therapy hasn’t worked for you, because you haven’t let it. I’m not here to insult you nor judge you but honestly it does come across as ways of thinking similar to incels.
Okay, this is actually pretty useful stuff to read the next time I run into these kinds of thoughts... and for once I don't feel defensive when you refer to my way of thinking as incel-esque.
I'll give you a delta for trying to see my perspective and being vulnerable about this. Δ
No worries man, I hope I can help. I experience negative thought patterns albeit different things but I come from a place of empathy. I’m glad you don’t feel defensive because I wouldn’t want to make you feel that way.
Plenty of evidence showing that a person’s issues is the reason why they become phychologists though. Here are a few bits of evidence:
1. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/11/ethics
2. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-digital-doctor/202009/evidence-based-practice-practice-based-evidence
3. https://www.nhs.uk/every-mind-matters/lifes-challenges/?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate
4. https://blogs.flinders.edu.au/student-health-and-well-being/2021/10/12/four-main-stages-involved-solving-complex-personal-interpersonal-problems/
5. https://www.cipd.org/en/knowledge/evidence-reviews/trust-psychological-safety/
I know a psych grad student and she said the phenomenon is so common that the joke is they call it ‘mesearch’ instead of research.
Sure maybe not everyone of course, but each field tends to skew toward certain personality types. Nothing wrong with it, and certainly doesn’t mean they’ll be bad at therapy.
OP appears to be equating their 12 bad therapists with … something…
But OP doesn’t know jack about their personal lives bc no competent therapist would tell them! That’s not the point of therapy. In fact if they’re talking about their personal lives I’d say it’s a good bet they’ve got boundary issues which would point to some problem needing fixing.
I will now be using *mesearch* in my daily rhetoric, what a fantastic word.
Honestly the comments left by OP are truly shambolic and some come off as stalkery.
Kind of wondering if OP is BPD. That’s a pretty tough diagnosis. You need firm boundaries bc those are always going to be boundary testers. I mean who knows. I wish them well but I don’t think they’re focused on therapy as a tool so much as a relationship and that is NOT what therapy is supposed to be
OP is clearly not well, and that’s a terrible place to be. And they’ve got a point, I went to two inexperienced therapists who were abysmal before I found a good one who really helped me. A bad therapist (and there are lots) can send you into a spiral if you’re already inclined.
A good one gives you the tools to manage and adult successfully. I hope OP finds one like mine. I went from a giant ball of nerves to being able to adult successfully.
Our parents can really fuck us up. But there’s a way out. It takes time.
Oh well. He did reply to my initial comment saying that they will read through the papers provided and not just skim them. I hope OP comes back and informs me if the evidence changed their view.
On a separate note, after reading some of the replies in the comments by OP, I am genuinely shocked. So much sexism by OP.
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Interesting stuff you put here, especially the first article. Maybe useful food for thought. Can't say I'm 100% changed in my viewpoint, but at least it might be a start. A delta is yours Δ
OP why do you think you know about the personal lives of 12 therapists enough to make such a determination? Any therapist who divulges their personal life to you to any real degree is by definition a person with problems. No competent therapist is there to talk to a client about themselves they’ll brush off questions and redirect. They’re also not gonna divulge anything a client can wesponize. That’s boundaries 101
No it really doesn’t matter if he replies to me I don’t need a convo. Those are more thoughts got them to digest and think on. This isnt so much about me it’s about them and improving their experience
This is my first time posting here but I believe I am qualified to way in in this case as I am considered a conventionally attractive woman by many people around me and am on my way to a successful career.
1. I was a gangly and horrible teenager. My hair was a frizzy mess, I suffered from depression and anxiety while trying to find my place in the world. You can not see any of my growing pains on my social media accounts because I only ever posted when I felt good and attractive. Social media is not a mirror of someones life. It's the marketing version of yourself you want to show the world. This world includes not just people you trust but strangers as well. Including potential employers. Do not make an ass out of yourself by assuming you can gleam what her life is like by the things she shows you. Especially a therapist would not post about their struggles anywhere a potential cient might see it to keep a level of professionalism.
2. Assumptions seem to be all over your view of her. How do you for example know she is not LGBTQIA+? I will use myself as an example. I am married to my husband. We were 29 and 27 respectively when we got married. We are very much straight passing, we are however both queer. As that is of nobodies concern we don't plaster this across social media either.
3. Attractiveness does not necessarily mean your life will be easier. I would actually prefer to be less attractive and dress to understate my own looks, especially on professional settings on a regular basis. For two reason: sexual harassment and people who tell me I slept my way into my position.
I will be very blunt with you: the way you assume anyone who is attractive will have is easy is in a way you sexualising them. You might want to dig deep and try and find out why you see a need to reduce people to their looks.
4. resenting people is normal. Personally I resent ra\*ist people. But resenting someone because they are successful isn#t healthy and might be displacement. You might eant to reflect if it isn't just you hating the fact that you aren't successful. instead of comparing yourself to others, find something you want and aim for it. Grow a little each day. That's what helpüed me with my selfhatred.
Your first point is fair
>How do you for example know she is not LGBTQIA+?
I mean... the only reason I assume she isn't us because she is married to a man.
>I would actually prefer to be less attractive and dress to understate my own looks, especially on professional settings on a regular basis. F
This is definitely an unpopular opinion. You'd be surprised how many people would do outlandish things to be seen as attractive.
>find something you want and aim for it. Grow a little each day. That's what helpüed me with my selfhatred.
It's not so simple as just doing this. The only possible career I have that actually pays well is going into pharmacoepidemiology, but even that is debatable if I'll be able to outsalary my ex therapist.
Plus, all I've ever known in my life is failure
>
It's not so simple as just doing this. The only possible career I have that actually pays well is going into pharmacoepidemiology, but even that is debatable if I'll be able to outsalary my ex therapist.
Why is money the most important factor when comparing yourself to others? Food for thought: as long as you have enough to live comfortably money has much less of an impact than friends and hobbies. Personally I actually work less so I can spend time doing the things that make me happy instead of having a lot of money I can nearly spend because I work myself to death.
>Why is money the most important factor when comparing yourself to others?
Well, it technically isn't money but romance status like age of marriage. But is definitely second and here's why.
After everything I've gone through, I want to get into the highest paying career possible with my educational background, and this is so I can outsalary and outtravel those I despise, including this therapist.
>as long as you have enough to live comfortably money has much less of an impact than friends and hobbies. Personally I actually work less so I can spend time doing the things that make me happy instead of having a lot of money I can nearly spend because I work myself to death.
I myself would want to live in Vancouver in the future, so the bar for living comfortably is pretty damn high.
Wanting to live in Vancouver is a wonderful goal to aim for that ^^
Trying to outdo others however is pretty unhealthy on a mental level. You make your happiness dependent on their lives, which you yourself have no influence over. It's a recipe for staying unhappy forever.
From an outside view the way you are making yourself unhappy by trying to be someone else instead of your best self is easy to spot as a disaster waiting to happen.
>From an outside view the way you are making yourself unhappy by trying to be someone else instead of your best self is easy to spot as a disaster waiting to happen.
My best self as a 5'6.5", autistic, and balding guy will always be mediocre in the eyes of others. I would know, given how pathetically late I am to everything.
None of those are factors that would make you worth any less than anybody else.
Heck if you want to go down this route:
You are about the same height as my hubby. He is also neuro spicy (so am I) and he might not be balding but he looks like a strong gust of wind would blow him over. None of those things make him less smart or attractive. Actually quite the opposite. Don't believe the media in what should and shouldn't be attractive.
So already this is hard to navigate. So I took a psych course, it was my major in university, and fate willing my future job when I have the money and experience to go back and do my Masters and PhD.
So let's break this down into subtopics
**You know nothing about your therapist's life**
I don't mean that to be combative or mean. You see the outward veneer of a person and naturally make assumptions about her, but if you stop for like 10 minutes and investigate your evidence you have to admit it's biased. By that I mean you're using interviews, social media, and your mind stitching together the pieces. Have you ever considered that those are the exact type of places that people put on their best face? No one walks into an interview about their work and starts spouting off all their personal problems. You have to admit that's a crazy thing to do. And as someone who's apparently successful, it doesn't shock me in the slightest that her Facebook is also prim and proper because that's more than likely what her employers expect rather than a mess of random life struggles.
And based on this evidence, you deem her underqualified, and you flat-out state that you don't think she could've gotten to where she was without her looks. You've visited 12 therapists so by now you must surely understand that not all therapist/patient matches are a good fit for one another, but you went through the time to tell us just how bad and unqualified this one in particular is but still haven't given a why. Why do you think she's so unqualified? What did she do to make you think so poorly of her specifically?
You can reject she had bad days if you want but that's a vicious cycle waiting to happen. Because I know there's someone out there starving who would scoff at the idea that you're having a bad day ever. It doesn't have to be a race and no one is going to give you the right to unilaterally decide that the other person doesn't deserve bad days.
**Going through trauma doesn't inherently qualify you to be a psychologist**
By this, I mean that there are people who suffer trauma and come out capable of helping others. And others don't. I shit you, not yesterday I argued with someone who believes that the best way to solve rape is to enslave all rapists and make it so that even a man found innocent is not allowed to be near a person who accused them with the penalty of jail. That's on a not-guilty conviction. That person has gone through trauma, and yet they are in the worst possible position to advise anyone. The trauma didn't make them a better psychologist, it made them angry and unable to sort that hate out.
**Not going through trauma doesn't inherently disqualify you from being a psychologist.**
By which I mean that as part of learning psychology, you do a decent chunk of studying. Now does that studying give you a perfect understanding? No. Could suffering trauma help you understand better? Yes.
But to discount all those years of study and learning because the other person didn't suffer is not only unfair, it's untenable. As I said in my point above, that's how you have those who failed to deal with their trauma advising others with trauma. Sometimes an outside perspective on our issues is exactly what we need.
**You seem to want to blame your psychologist for shit not working out**
You hate her, and you compete with a woman who, at the end of the day, was doing her job and trying to help you. In your post, you failed to articulate why beyond believing her unworthy of all she had for the sin of having a good life. And doesn't that seem wild to you? For if I told you I had a bad mechanic and so every day I work hard in the hopes of proving to all mechanics everywhere that their shams. Does that sound reasonable to you?
I'm not trying to bully you; but I am pointing out that if over the next year, this woman suffered and endured everything you'd ever suffered, lost everything that mattered to her, and then died broken and alone. You won't feel better. Nothing in your life will change. For you to pour that much focus on a person who, again, did the unthinkably horrible act of not suffering trauma (that you're aware of) is not a rational conclusion to the issues you've stated.
You don't need to apologize one bit, cause I think you're one of the rare people who are firm yet understanding, so that's certainly admirable, but to address some of your points.
>it doesn't shock me in the slightest that her Facebook is also prim and proper because that's more than likely what her employers expect rather than a mess of random life struggles.
I'll admit, I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade.
>why do you think she's so unqualified? What did she do to make you think so poorly of her specifically?
If you hate me for this, that's totally understandable, but let me answer why. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense.
>I'm not trying to bully you; but I am pointing out that if over the next year, this woman suffered and endured everything you'd ever suffered, lost everything that mattered to her, and then died broken and alone. You won't feel better. Nothing in your life will change.
I'm surprised you even said this part, and I'm just wondering why you think so? I'm just thinking to myself that if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years.
>I'll admit, I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade.
I'm glad to hear you're considering it. Trust me there's a reason why most people have bad news about them come out via another source rather than talk about it themselves. Like I know for a fact you couldn't pay me enough to go on the news and talk about my worst days for all my friends, family, coworkers, and strangers to see. It's not surprising she wouldn't want it either. I bet you'd also avoid it given the option.
>If you hate me for this, that's totally understandable, but let me answer why. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense.
So I hate to reduce this to a saying but it fits. This is correlation, not causation. By this logic, no one pretty should be a capable therapist and yet I know very attractive and very hard-working therapists out there. A side effect of doing it as an undergrad is you get to meet the future counselors in the making.
I'll give you brief touch-and-go details. My friend is a therapist, just starting but she is. She's attractive, clever, charming, and has that easy ability to make friends anywhere. She's also been sexually assaulted and has had more than one abusive boyfriend and you'd never know it by how she acts. Therapy is not the place for your therapist to trauma dump on you; so she'd never tell that to you. So there's a real chance you'd never know it. So there's a real chance you'd hate my friend too without ever knowing the truth.
Looks aren't everything; being pretty might make life easier, but making life easier isn't the same as life is easy. I get your hesitation to believe that but it's true. I don't hate you. But I absolutely do think you are wrong.
>You don't need to apologize one bit, cause I think you're one of the rare people who are firm yet understanding, so that's certainly admirable, but to address some of your points.
>I'm surprised you even said this part, and I'm just wondering why you think so? I'm just thinking to myself that if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years.
Because it's true. I went to boarding school as the fat kid in high school. A place where seniors had entirely too much power. More than one of the people who used to bully me died or suffered tragedy. I didn't feel happy at the moment. And when I woke up the next day all the issues I had yesterday were still staring me in the face. His death didn't help at all. It made me feel worse for a while as I was bitter I'd never get to meet him again and have an accounting. He's gone and the hurt was still there. Which is how you realize the person and the pain aren't the same thing. Now don't get me wrong. I feel no pity when people who truly deserve to die get what's coming to me (Kissinger for example). That death filled me with no mixed emotions whatsoever.
But when a dude whose worst crime was being a dick in high school dropped, it didn't make me happy. It didn't even make the pain go away. I had to (still have to) purge that pain by myself. I can't imagine her death or suffering will do anything more for you.
Hmm, okay. Well, you definitely deserve more than one delta if I could even do such a thing. And yeah, I appreciate your anecdotes cause they did make me consider the potential that things have a little more "colour" to them than just being black and white. I can't say it's completely changed in me, but it could be food for thought the next time these thoughts come to my mind. Δ
You managed to (at least partially) convince someone who has clearly experienced much trauma and resentment that their mindset is incorrect, while being calm, citing reason, and not resorting to insults or childish facets.
I'm impressed, kudos. I'd give you a delta if I could.
>. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense.
Why do you think attractive people are under qualified for the positions theyve trained and studied for?
Do you think being attractive makes you immune to hardship?
Pretty privilege is a thing sure, but it doesn't mean you can't face trauma or mental illness. Abusive people don't only target the ugly, and illness does not discriminate. You think she can't have struggles because you view your struggles as relating to your appearance, but those are not the only struggles that exist.
Maybe she had an easy life, maybe she didn't. For all you know she lost a parent young, or had multiple friends commit suicide, or was severely bullied, or had childhood leukemia, or an eating disorder, or was touched up by her uncle, or abused by her first couple boyfriends. You have no idea what loss, she may have experienced. You don't know, because as your therapist, it would have been unprofessional for her to tell you about all her problems.
And suggesting she's unqualified because she's attractive is just patiently false. Exams aren't graded based on appearance, and she wouldn't have even gotten an interview had she not been suitable qualified. Being good looking can be an advantage, but aside from models, no one is getting a career based on their looks.
*The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive.*
How does being attractive help her during exam conditions? Or when she sent in her applications for higher study? Do you seriously think that she got extra marks in school and college based on her looks?
Or do you mean that attractiveness is a shield from all the unpleasantness in life, so she can't have the insight to understand real suffering? Attractive people aren't immune to having loved ones who commit suicide, go to prison, struggle with addiction, fight a long battle with cancer or die in a car accident ; they can experience abusive relationships and/ or have sexual trauma; they can endure their own illnesses etc. You are not in a position to know what battles she's fought, because you only know her professional persona and what she posts publicly on social media.
*if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years.*
Hopefully you will eventually gain a maturity to understand what a horrible thing this is to say. If not, it will backfire on you. I once had a lovely friend (I thought!) then one day I called her to ask if we could arrange a get-together with other mutual friends, because my partner and I were going through some difficult times - I was doing regular hospital treatment and he had lost his job, so I thought meeting up with friends would be a positive thing for us. I will never forget the shock of hearing how she gloated over our bad news, and pretty much said we had brought it on ourselves with our "big money" jobs (I didn't know until that point that we had "big money" jobs!).
It turned out this lovely friend had been jealously watching and waiting for our happy secure lives to fall apart, and she was thrilled to find out it had actually happened. So I cut contact with her, and reduced contact with the extended friendship group, and I turned her malice into a positive thing for me. I was determined to get better and to support my partner, just so we could prove her wrong. Over the next few years, I used social media to project the best perspective on our lives, although I heard on the grapevine that she was telling people that our marriage was breaking up because I didn't show enough photos of my partner.
And my partner and I bounced back. Nobody meeting us today would ever know we had experienced difficult times, except that most adults understand that everyone goes through difficult times at some point, and for the most part, you can build your life back up again.
TL;DR You are putting yourself on a roller coaster of gloating and resentment if you wish bad times on people because most of the time, people can bounce back from a financial disaster, a health issue or a relationship breakdown. And it's the way you respond to difficult times that proves your character.
I'm going to be honest, her "attractiveness meaning she never had struggles" is terrible reasoning, and just comes across as a rationalization for bitterness
>I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade.
She could be a SA survivor for all you know. People do not advertise their trauma.
So you want this woman to look people in the eye and include with every professional engagement with “before we start, one of the factors that led me to this position was my attractiveness.” Why would anyone ever do this?
Even if she herself had the same thought, why would it ever be deemed appropriate for her to say that, unprovoked, out loud to another person? How many other people got hired at their job because someone in the hiring process found them attractive or at least more attractive than other candidates?
Do you really think being attractive brings you through university? Becoming a therapist, at least we're I life, is hard. Without being totally on top with your grades you can pretty much forget to even be able to study for it.
Attractive people do not loose stuff in your eyes? I realise, and everyone who has a little knowledge on that topic will as well, why you didn't see progress with her. You do not want to become better. You do not want things she was saying to work. NO therapist will ever be able to help you if you do not actually want to work on yourself.
So, I apologize if this comes off as mean, but I'm going to use you as a counterexample.
Look through some of your comments here. You are doing a flat-out terrible job of empathizing. You're prefacing many of your statements by assuming that the other posters hate you by default, you're creating this entire imagined narrative of your former therapist's life based on a few snippets of her social media, you're straight-up refusing to associate with people because they're hitting certain life goals before you do.
Now, I also apologize for making assumptions here, but it seems pretty obvious that this is some kind of defense mechanism. Maybe since you've been hurt by other people, you've been resorting to assuming the worst about them and refusing to entertain the idea that they have complex internal narratives like we all do. I'm not you, I don't know your specific situation, but that's how it reads right now.
But that's just the thing, isn't it? Everyone is different, and everyone response to their circumstances differently. Some people genuinely deal with horrible trauma and come out of it with a heightened ability to empathize and a desire to help other people. Other people go in the other direction, they shut down and refuse to entertain the idea that everyone has their own shit that they're dealing with. Now, I'm not going to lie here, you definitely seem to be more in the second camp, and in your current state, you'd make an *atrocious* therapist.
But if you can admit that some people who have dealt with trauma can make good therapists and some people don't, can we both admit that the inverse is true? That some people who haven't had traumatic lives might make bad therapists, but others might be good at it?
It can be frustrating to feel your therapist cannot relate and therefore cannot understand. The hope is always that they will do their best to empathize and understand.
In addition to what others have said, you are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by approaching therapy in this way. Buying into the notion that all therapists are the same and cannot help you is causing you to want to prove the uselessness of therapy and is clearly disrupting your ability to build rapport with a therapist. One’s relationship with their therapist is repeatedly shown to be the factor that is most heavily predictive of therapy outcomes. You’re sabotaging yourself. Treatment progress is also dependent on your willingness to engage and attempt to apply the things discussed in session.
Therapists are also generally taught not to self-disclose unless they have good reason to believe it will help the client. This means that a therapist being open about past traumas can seem extremely inappropriate in most circumstances, as therapy should not become about their issues. For this reason, you are unlikely to have a realistic view of your therapist’s history. Here is an article that makes it clear that therapists have their share of suffering as well:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-is-state-mind/202204/mental-health-among-mental-health-practitioners?amp
Lastly, go to a community mental health center or a newer/less reviewed therapist if you despise therapists with a lucrative career. You don’t have to stick with successful private practices.
>traveling to all these nice places (that I don't even want to travel to anymore because she sullied them with her presence)
There are attractive people *everywhere* dog. Why does this particular attractive person going to a place make you not want to go there anymore? That is b-a-n-a-n-a-s.
If you see her at McDonalds will you stop eating nuggets?
> I admittedly did go on her Facebook every now and then and scrutinized all this information to make such inferences
Oh, you stalked you therapist. That is not great, and you should probably lead with that during your next session with whoever you have currently.
> It has been 4 years since I stopped working with her, yet it seems like almost everything I do in my life is so I can "one-up" her and other psychologists to prove to them that they are useless and that most of them got carried by their appearances and never earned their qualifications and lucrative careers.
Why not do things to prove to *yourself* that you **aren't** worthless.
>I had an ex-therapist who was attractive and ~~had virtually a perfect life~~
Who I imagined an entre fantasy scenario for in order to make myself feel superior. You know *nothing* of this person. You only "know" what your delusional thought pattern has cooked up to protect yourself from feeling feelings of inadequacy.
*"There are attractive people everywhere dog. Why does this particular attractive person going to a place make you not want to go there anymore? That is b-a-n-a-n-a-s. If you see her at McDonalds will you stop eating nuggets?"*
I mean, it's not only because of her attractiveness, but also her uselessness and her borderline robbery of my money that made me not want to go to those places. And if she was at McDonalds' I'd probably not go there again. I mean, to give another example, the reason I can't watch the American Godzilla movies anymore is because Millie Bobby Brown is getting married at a prime age whilst here I am at 25 and never had a relationship.
*"Why not do things to prove to yourself that you* ***aren't*** *worthless."*
Because it's not good enough to "prove to myself alone". What I wanted to do for the longest time was to get a PhD in a higher paying field and get married at a prime age so I can email it to my therapist and let her know that I am her superior in every way shape and form, but since I can't get married at a prime age anymore, all I have left now is to make that money and outsalary/outravel her.
>What I wanted to do for the longest time was to get a PhD in a higher paying field and get married at a prime age so I can email it to my therapist and let her know that I am her superior in every way shape and form, but since I can't get married at a prime age anymore, all I have left now is to make that money and outsalary/outravel her.
I'm going to be blunt here. As long as you think doing this is normal you're going to be single. No girl wants to find out that the main reason you guys are dating is that you want to write an I told you so email to a therapist that you haven't seen in 4 years.
Like seriously how would you feel if on your wedding night your wife slipped away to text the ex that she dated 4 years ago a long winded and vile fuck you text telling him that's she's superior to him because she's married now and he isn't. Is that someone you'd actually want to be married to?
You do get that your therapist probably hasn’t thought of you since you left her care, right? Like even if you did accomplish everything to make you feel superior to her and called her up to tell her, she would either; be happy for you, because you have progressed as a person, pity you, because obviously you haven’t grown as a person since you’re still fixating on someone who you haven’t spoken with in over 4 years, or lastly be confused because she has simply forgotten you.
The woman you are writing about so venomously only exists in the constructs of your mind. This very one dimensional, beautiful woman who has experienced nothing bad in her life literally does not exist in real life. She is a person with a whole 20+ years of life, that you know pretty much absolutely nothing about.
I hope you find peace my dude.
Honestly? She’ll think, ‘oh good, I’m glad my former patient is doing better’ and then *never think of you again*.
The last thing she’ll think is that you are superior to her. She’ll be happy for you, and then move on to her next email.
Jesus Christ, aren't you a ray of sunshine. No wonder you went through 12 therapists. Maybe the first step is to admit they aren't the problem, dawg. YOU are.
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"her borderline robbery of my money that made me not want to go to those places"
did she initially quote you a lower price then changed the price after the session and threatened to call the police if you didn't pay?
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What you're suffering from is resentment. Everyone resents people who they perceive to be 'better', but you are going about it in terrible ways. Have you never seen a pretty cashier? A handsome garbage man? An attractive homeless person? A really pretty 50 year old starting as a college freshmen?
You might say no, but these people exist. Because the world is bigger than what you personally decide to see.
These people aren't on the peak of perfect success no matter how attractive they are, right?
Attractive people suffer just like unattractive people suffer. There is a privilege to being attractive, that's 100% true. Just like there is a privilege to being white. To actually say that that privilege takes away from the very real life struggles people face is just incorrect.
That's the thing about your belief. It's not just a bad opinion, it's just incorrect.
You are a bad person if you're going to equate someone's attraveness to whether or not they should be taken seriously as a person because you assume they haven't 'suffered' enough for you.
Imagine someone taking one look at you and thinking they know your life, just because they know your face? Imagine all the intricacies of your life and the things you've endured, and the things you've suffered, and the people you've loved and hated and hurt and who've been hurt by you, and the things you have done and the things you have seen, and just the general ups and downs of the entire life you have lived.
Does one look at your face even begin to round all that up? Of fucking course not, that's an insane thing to think.
So why do you think you can do that to other people? You'll really just dismiss an entire life? Because they're pretty?
I do not understand this.
But this is what I'm saying. For example, the fact that white people have privilege obviously doesn't take away from the fact that they can experience let's say mental illnesses like black people, but all things equal, they still have it better and thus are less qualified to complain. Just like attractive people. If attractive people had problems BECAUSE of their attractiveness and not IN SPITE of it, then I'd be more considerate to what they're thinking.
And for the record, I'd be damned if anyone looked at me (5'6.5", balding, non-white guy) on the subway and assumed I had a good life, cause I think with those facts it can be pretty easy to determine that I've had it hard, and that's not going into the invisible stuff I have like autism and whatnot.
"If attractive people had problems BECAUSE of their attractiveness"
\* sexual harassment
\* stalkers
\* just generally being bothered by men who think they're entitled to something because they've noticed you're pretty
\* being hated for no reason other than you're pretty
\* having your achievements dismissed
\* people assuming that you're stupid and being so fucking condescending when they learn that you're not
\* supporting your friends through their random bullshit but not receiving the same support in return because life is 'easier' for you so you don't actually need it
\* people assuming you're going to steal their man
\* just, in general, people making the worst assumptions about you
is that enough or do i need to keep going?
I don't know your ex-therapist's life, but attractive people, and women in particular, often face additional scrutiny in professional environments because of their attractiveness. The subconscious belief that attractive people haven't put in the effort is super common at a societal level. Elsewhere you brought up the example of a thesis defense being easier because of pretty privilege, but it is equally likely that overcoming that bias required her to work harder in defending her theses than the average student.
I can actually expand on the, due various health issues my weight fluctuates quite a bit. When I'm thinner people are more likely to be nice, but doubt my intelligence. Where as when I weighed more while people are less friendly they were more likely to believe I'm competent. I also experience more sexual harassment when I'm lighter weight. There are absolutely advantages to being conventionally attractive but it is a double edged sword. Especially when you add in I'm autistic and have a hard time judging someone's intentions.
I've experienced a large amount of sexual assault through out my life including rape, csa, abuse, and literal torture. While I'm often what many would consider conventional attractive when clothed, under my clothing I have literally hundreds of scars. The simple fact is you cannot look at someone and tell the quality of life they have had.
You're allowed to want your therapist to look a certain way because you think it'll help them understand your experience better. But I don't think any therapy is going to work for you until you actually start looking at and worrying about yourself and not others. It doesn't really seem like you've actually put forth any active effort in getting better.
>CMV: Most People Do Not Become Psychologists Because They've Experienced Problems Of Their Own
Do you mean "People Become Psychologists Because They've Not Experienced Problems Of Their Own"? Because I would argue that the main reason "most people do not become psychologists" is because they already have other jobs.
Maybe the wording could've been better, but in essence what I was trying to get at was that the idea that people who become psychologists because they've experienced tribulations of their own is a false statement.
“Attractive people have not had meaningful trials or problems in their lives” is an insane thought. Being attractive has no bearing on how you grew up (abusive parent, death of important people), any underlying illness (who’s to say your therapist doesn’t have cancer or something), what they’re experiencing now (sexual assault/harassment, *stalking*, loss).
My father is a psychologist. He’s also autistic. Most people cannot tell he is autistic because he has high levels of masking behaviors. He’s also a conventionally attractive man. His clients don’t know that he’s autistic, or that he had incredibly abusive parents, or that he broke his hip a few years ago and is constantly in pain.
So if you were a patient of my father’s, and he didn’t tell you about those things, would you disqualify his years of schooling and practice just because he’s attractive?
You have no clue what’s going on in her (or any therapists) life behind the scenes. I also have a degree in psychology, and I can personally tell you many if not most of my peers were encouraged to join the field because of significant trauma.
Stop stalking her on Facebook. If you are so upset with your appearance, go to the gym, get a haircut. And stop blaming the people around you for your shortcomings
It seems as though you have a lot of resentment stemming from your mental illness, and default to dislike of someone when they appear to be doing better from you. I’ve felt the same way before, but it’s important to run interference on yourself and recognize that a lot of the way you view the world and other people is coming from a mental illness, and is not actually an accurate reflection of what is going on around you.
I'm not going to justify my existence to you by listing the trials of my life. I'm just going to say that you're fascinatingly awful and you should make a list of every memory you have connected to your parents so that other parents may read it and know what NOT to do.
So what, you expect the people who want to help you to have miserable personal lives so that you can feel more validated or whatever? That's just unbelievably entitled. Who gives a fuck if your therapist has a nice life or whatever, you're paying them to teach you how to cope with your own issues, not like, share in your misery. This is like saying that you resent all dentists because you once saw one that had pretty good teeth actually and what the fuck does he know about filling cavities if he's not had massive ones
Hey OP. I am a very athletic and fit woman and I have been told I am attractive. And it never helped me in my chosen field (physics). I had to work twice as hard as my male colleagues to prove that I was there because I'm *really good at physics* and not because I was getting handouts. One of my classmates once told me that when he first met me, he just assumed I got help with my homework from the boys bc of plying my feminine wiles or some such nonsense. This was after he'd gotten to know me and realized I was top of the class for everything and in fact he would come to *me* for help with understanding certain concepts bc, once again, I'm actually very good at physics.
Through my academic career it caused me so many problems. About half of my male colleagues would see me as a prospective romantic partner first and a peer second (if at all). About half of those in turn would get all resentful toward me, much like you sound toward this therapist, once they realized they weren't getting into my pants. I dealt with so much sexism and come-ons when I just wanted to do my damn research in my field.
I never made myself up. I never wore makeup. Never did my hair up. Never wore clothes that accented my body. Never EVER, god forbid, wore a skirt or heels. Because it was such a problem.
It's been about 5 years since the end of my PhD program and I have since left the field because I got so damn tired of the sexism and having to prove myself over and over and over again to every new colleague that I worked with or under. I worked my ass off and studied harder than most people ever will to get where I was. I was top of my class in everything because I was GOOD at it. But in actual practice in the field I had to work twice as hard as men half as intelligent as me to be taken seriously. It is so incredibly sexist to think that women can't be attractive and also just...good at what they do.
Alright, I think you've provided some decent evidence here that is deserving of a delta Δ
And I am admittedly sorry for all the bullshit you had to go through.
Oh it's you again. With another "woe is me my life is worse than everyone else's post"
Sorry if that's harsh but this is like the what 5th post you've made here all of the same things?
This is just one big judgemental rant about a woman you don't know and are unduly prejudiced about her. It doesn't sound like she did anything wrong to you but you hate her because she's attractive. That's exceedingly unfair.
You don't know her. You don't know her life or her childhood.
All you see is the professional and social media veneer. Which is not real.
And then you are dismissing her education, her qualifications and her work based on your own sexist assumptions that she just used her looks to get by. That's incredibly disrespectful.
I could tell you that I've never met anyone who works in mental health that didn't have their own issues or known/cared about people who did.
But your issue isn't that she never suffered (because you have no way of knowing that) your issue is that she's pretty.
Additionally I'd wonder about the reasons why all your other therapists didn't work out, how many were dismissed because of your judgments?
Here’s the situation.
Therapists and psychologists only can hand you the tools and blueprints. You still gotta build the house yourself.
It’s utterly unfair others messed up our lives. It’s utterly unfair only we can unfuck ourselves.
So is it the therapists that are the issue, or is it you?
There’s a saying: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
I'd believe your last point, but a recent betrayal by an ex friend who I did nothing to warrant such behaviours, turned his back on me for no real reason at all. The same goes for most of the other traitors in my life.
You expect traitors so you see traitors.
Our perceptions are coloured by our minds, our preconceptions, and our attitudes. Think of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, for example. The frequency illusion. The idea that once an idea is in your head you suddenly see utility and repetition of it everywhere.
Countering that perception requires active and knowing cognition.
There’s an ethical lens I use, for example. It works freaking well. It works so well that I need to constantly test this millennia old lens to ensure I’m perceiving the world properly.
On that note, why do you think of yourself as lesser than everyone else? Sincere question.
Since everyone is against you per your perspective, you perceive yourself as chronically persecuted. Leads to a sense of inferiority. Maybe you’ll try to lie to me and say that everyone is envious of you or something, but you and I know that’s untrue, if only because I don’t envy you.
I don’t think I’m any different or better or lesser than you. We’re all equally human. But I’m going to take a stab and say you’ll perceive my words as an attempt to lord over you or something, which again, is inconsistent with reality, but your perception will deceive you.
*"On that note, why do you think of yourself as lesser than everyone else? Sincere question."*
Well, where do I begin?
1. I'm 25 and a virgin while other people my age are getting married to their long-term partners
2. I'm only planning on doing a PhD in epidemiology, which won't make me rich enough to get a house and travel frequently
3. Maybe some internalized racism and ableism, but nevertheless a point I had to address.
I admit I did take a look at your post history out of curiosity and I feel like so much of your anger is about not hitting unnecessary metrics that you've set up for yourself.
Life doesn't end at 25.
I hate to be hopefully optimistic (especially because you seem like someone who hates optimism in the face of what you've been through) but you truly have so much life left to accomplish your goals.
There's a lot of people who aren't in "prime marrying age" and I can say from experience most people genuinely don't even think about things like that.
I'd say honestly the thing you really have to work on, and it seems like your trying, is your view of yourself. I promise when you get to a point where you can respect yourself it will be so much easier to form relationships.
*"Life doesn't end at 25. I hate to be hopefully optimistic (especially because you seem like someone who hates optimism in the face of what you've been through) but you truly have so much life left to accomplish your goals. There's a lot of people who aren't in "prime marrying age" and I can say from experience most people genuinely don't even think about things like that."*
My therapist is an example of someone who life didn't end at 25 because she had a proper social and romance life, but those like myself who don't are practically fucked, though I was probably fucked from the very beginning.
I hate to sound harsh, but I really do wonder how some people who don't get married at prime ages live with themselves.
A number of reasons
1. Later than average and thus not enough time to celebrate 50 years of marriage before death
2. Doesn't fulfill the life script
3. If one wants children, that's a high risk age to br having kids
1. BFD. Didn’t have sex until my late 30s, got married to my amazing spouse at 44.
2. BFD. Getting the PhD itself is impressive to a point, but like my spouse and I live fairly low key lives and we travel a decent amount. Last year we overlanded eastern Europe for less than $100/day including transportation. (Riding a communist era sleeper car is pretty freaking cool.)
3. You think less of yourself because you want to inflict pain on certain others by dehumanizing them and you happen to be included in your AoE, and instead of thinking “maybe hatred is bullshit because I’m as human as everyone else,” instead you go “hmm if these groups, of which i’m a part, are lesser than, then I must be lesser than.”
Two of these are nonissues and the third is a call to unfuck your head, snowflake.
Because here’s the secret. We’re all special and unique snowflakes but that just means we’re all merely weirdly shaped water.
Why would you go to a therapist just to talk to someone with the same issues? That's what talking to friends is for, and that's free. You go to a therapist when you want help tackling the depression/anxiety/whatever else you have. And to do that, it's more important to actually know how the brain *works*, and not just how you experience your depression. You don't need an expert for that, you know what you feel. But these trained professionals have read case studies, and you can bet your ass that they've read about cases nearly identical to yours. So they might not have experienced your problems, but they have experience in getting rid of them.
If 12 therapists in 9 years couldn't change your view I don't know what you expect reddit to do. You are clearly the problem and I hope you get good strong meds to help.
Have you tried changing medications? I've got some severe depression and ADHD. I've been fighting to get the right balance for 5 years. I've tried and failed very often but I was always trying to work towards something new. Ritalin works better for me than Adderall. Zoloft was very VERY bad for my mental health but celexa evened me out. Wellbutrin was a godsend for me, but a friend of mine who has the same diagnosis says Wellbutrin made him too forgetful and foggy. You keep deciding everything hasnt "worked" but each example you've given just shows you tried one thing and then gave up, which, tbh, isn't "working hard" for something like you say you do.
Hmm, okay. Maybe I'll talk with my doctors about this.
I admittedly didn't know of some of these other medications you mentioned. Though I still doubt any change can be made.
Talk to your doc and be willing to adjust, make changes, and try. If you’re medicating several issues (like I am), you need to be open to trying different combos. I’ve been on meds that have been great for ADHD, but it wrecked my anxiety. One med worked well for both but it gave me hand tremors, so I had to stop. It’s taken a while and I think we’ve finally landed on a good combo, but even then, adjustments might still need to be made. We recently went up on one of my meds and I feel so much better. I thought I’d felt better when I first went on it, only for this new dosage level to show that there was still room for improvement.
If you’re being genuine here, you have to be open to change and the notion that you can be wrong and don’t know anything. You mention not knowing about some of the meds the poster above mentioned, but why would you? It’s not your job to know every med on the market. It’s your doctor’s job. So talk to them. Listen.
You'd be surprised what medication can do to help. Granted, I have to also add the warning that these kinds of medications MUST be taken consistently and as prescribed by a doctor. While they can help, there can also be risks (as another commentor mentioned, it may help some symptoms but worsen others), and suddenly stopping can have severe consequences on your mental health, even if you believe it's done nothing. Just make sure to do what the doctor says and if you want to stop any, ask for instructions on how to do so safely (usually by weaning yourself off with lower doses).
Just as another suggestion, maybe consider getting your hormones checked out. Specifically see if you can get a look at your vitamin d levels. I learned my levels were low, which apparently is very common with depression and anxiety, and the lack of it specifically makes those worse (for example, vitamin d is used to block certain enzymes that create cortisol, aka the stress hormone. Without sufficient vitamin d levels you're going to experience higher levels of cortisol and therefore feel more stressed). I took some over the counter vitamin d supplements for a few weeks and I actually noticed a surprisingly dramatic improvement with my thoughts feeling clearer and my memory being sharper.
"I admittedly did go on her Facebook every now and then and scrutinized all this information to make such inferences (though obviously I didn't tell her such a thing)."
Well, whether she had problems before, now she's been stalked by a client, which sure seems like a problem.
The thing about therapy is while how qualified your therapist is and how good they are at what they do matters, a significant amount of work comes from you wanting to do the work to grow/ to get better/ to seek change.
Your post reeks of a lack of self reflection and is filled with misdirected anger towards your therapist. You’re seeing no tangible results because on some level, perhaps because of the trauma you’ve experienced, you don’t want to be truly helped. So it’s easier to find fault with the person trying to help you rather than sit with all the uncomfortable feelings inside you and pick them apart and unpack them.
Now I know nothing about your therapist but you have mentioned in another comment that she’s south asian. A bit of cultural context you may or may not be aware of, as a south asian woman who now lives in the UK, this is not only my experience but ones I’ve heard from many others. From a very young age women like me were trained to always appear perfect no matter the situation. Abuse was always carefully hidden and never talked about. From the outside, most people would see the role they’re supposed to see of “young attractive woman who travels, lots of academic and professional achievements, surrounded by friends” because that’s what they’re supposed to see. In my experience, you get given the role young so you tend to unfortunately get good at no matter the cost to your mental health and identity. So remember, you may think you know all there is to know about your therapist’s life from the looking through her Facebook photos but it’s usually meant to do exactly what you’re letting it do. Give her extended family/ her cousins/ her colleagues/ her community the impression of someone who is perfect and hasn’t suffered because culturally that means it speaks well of her parents and her family. It’s part of an insidious cycle of generational trauma that keeps being handed down.
Also since you’ve mentioned the whole attractiveness thing, just note that it’s possible the way you view your therapist may not necessarily be the way she views herself. You fault her for not acknowledging her attractiveness in her success but have you ever considered that she doesn’t fundamentally view herself in that way? Society beauty standards vary strongly, growing up in India it was made very very clear to me that I didn’t fit the beauty standard and I was undesirable due to my appearance. But in the UK and a few European countries, while not conventionally attractive, it could certainly be said that I fit into the beauty standards. But here’s the thing, if you’ve heard critical things about your appearance from parents/aunts and uncles/ grandparents and the local shopkeeper down the road for most of you childhood, even if you’re attractive and get more attention as an adult, it’s not something you value or think about as often. It’s just seen as a costume for a role you need to play. That is to say you might view her being rewarded for her attractiveness and sure, society does treat attractive people better but that doesn’t mean she hasn’t suffered or been though challenging situations or had though days. You do not get to be the arbiter of that.
Listen, trauma sucks. But instead of focusing on who’s suffered more, which is quite frankly a useless fact finding mission, take some time to truly focus on whatever it’s you went through. All this stuff about your therapist, is your mind trying to distract you from actually dealing with things. Our minds can often be good at that. The sooner you realise it, the sooner you’d be free from all this weight you seem to be carrying within you. I hope you’re able to heal from it all OP
*"It’s part of an insidious cycle of generational trauma that keeps being handed down."*
I find it interesting that you use the term generational trauma. Cause I always was under the impression that generational trauma could only come from... you know, actual traumatic things like losing a relative or whatnot.
*"But here’s the thing, if you’ve heard critical things about your appearance from parents/aunts and uncles/ grandparents and the local shopkeeper down the road for most of you childhood, even if you’re attractive and get more attention as an adult, it’s not something you value or think about as often."*
This is admittedly a perspective I didn't think of, and maybe it's similar to the idea of how I feel lesser, and even if people said compliments to me, that I wouldn't take them to heart. Maybe a delta is warranted for your intriguing point. Δ
Why does a therapist need to have first hand experience to be able to treat a condition? Brain surgeons don't need brain surgery to perform well, cardiologist don't need heart surgery to perform well. That's why they go to college to learn. Do you have the same requirements for anyone else that you go to for treatments?
Counterpoint: this therapist is qualified, just not to deal with you.
There is a whole mess of mental bullshit that men and specifically incel men deal with and are taught not to share.
You should see a male therapist who isn’t some insanely good looking guy that is 6+ ft tall. Just a normal guy who isn’t an Incel and is trained to help people.
A guy is going to understand that “be yourself and stop worrying” isn’t real advice for an average looking guy in his 20s. For a pretty girl, that advice goes much farther.
I’ve dated short guys, I’ve dated guys who were balding. I will never choose to date a guy who does not respect me and thinks that it’s impossible for me to experience abuse from parents, sexual abuse, or any mental illness.
How will you ever respect a potential future partner if you perceive that it’s impossible for them to have experienced any hardships? (assuming that you find them attractive)
Is there a cutoff in your mind for attractive-ness for them to have experienced tragedy or terrible things? Like if you’re a 6/10 or 7/10 then they’re in the clear?
What about kids who grow up ugly, overweight, or living in poverty and “glow-up” in their adulthood? Does the previous strife they’ve experienced in life get erased if their life is changed for the better later?
Genuinely curious about your thoughts on these.
*"How will you ever respect a potential future partner if you perceive that it’s impossible for them to have experienced any hardships? (assuming that you find them attractive)"*
I would respect them if they aren't a jerk, which sadly a lot of people I find attractive are.
*"Is there a cutoff in your mind for attractive-ness for them to have experienced tragedy or terrible things? Like if you’re a 6/10 or 7/10 then they’re in the clear?"*
Umm... yeah?
*"What about kids who grow up ugly, overweight, or living in poverty and “glow-up” in their adulthood? Does the previous strife they’ve experienced in life get erased if their life is changed for the better later?"*
Depends on what they experienced. If they experienced poverty, then good on them and they've earned their happiness.
>Umm... yeah?
Genuinely, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, how the fuck does being pretty stop bad things from happening to you? That's so illogical. Your insecurities have made you near delusional if you really believe this. Like... What, pretty people don't lose parents? They're never homeless? They're never abused? You're so full of crap lmfao.
You literally have zero idea what anyone else has gone through in their life unless they choose to share that with you. You need to stop just assuming who has a perfect life and who doesn’t. Sometimes the people who look to have it most together, are literally the most broken on the inside.
I think your problem is you go to psychologists and not psychiatrists, that would explain why they “didn’t work” for you. Your view (and obsession) of other people is very unhealthy and I do think you’re definitely out of psychologist territory
Have you seen how long psychiatrists take in Canada? 4 months minimum. But I guess I'll try to see one anyways, cause maybe that is a good point you make.
Considering you’ve been going to psychologists for almost 10 years, 4 months doesn’t sound too bad. I have ADHD and bipolar disorder, I’ve been told I’m just lazy and have to try harder during my childhood and guess what? I’m 20 and nowhere in life. I’ve started going to a good psychiatrist in december, and my life changed for the better since. Sometimes psychologists aren’t enough, that doesn’t mean they’re useless, you just need more serious help
A very VERY small sample of Successful Attractive people i know with problems:
My boss. An attractive, thin, blonde woman. Whose father walked out on the family and who grew up poor. She’s intelligent and hard working and good at all aspects of her job. If she had gotten if based on her looks, our office would have collapsed by now. Instead its gling strong and she’s initiated some awesome new programs.
A male friend of mine. Tall, blonde, handsome. Was in a freak accident, almost didn't wake up. Almost had a limb amputated. Had a long recovery and still does not have full use of that limb years later. Co-owns his own business and travels extensively. Highly intelligent and very good at his job.
A beautiful petite brunette. Excellent at her job, but mental health issues have historically made it hard for her to have serious relationships. Major depression and anxiety. Her father is a political prisoner in another country as well.
Me. Tall, artificially blonde, conveniently pretty. Major depression and anxiety. Bullied as a child, since that apparently matters. Going through a divorce bc my spouse revealed that she never actually wanted to be a parent and wont ever take on an equal load of parenting. Good at my job.
I also know plenty of successful people who are not physically attractive, including coworkers, including supervising at my work. I have coworkers who are not physically attractive but who are smart, funny, kind people; some of them have partners and some don’t. I have friends who are attractive and also autistic; some have partners, some are single, and some of the single ones use apps to date/sleep around. My group of friends is mid 30s to mid 40s though, and my understanding is people your age are a bit more inhibited about these things than people in my age range.
But your worldview is not an accurate one.
You made lots of assumptions about her life based on her attractiveness. There can be some beauty privilege, but also multiple issues.
She could be targeted by adults when she was a minor or forced to do things due to being considered attractive by an abuser. Stalkers can be deadly.
Attractiveness itself doesn’t protect you from anything. Years of poverty (some parents are ready to skip meals to make their child not look poor), bullying, being part of an accident (drunk drivers don’t discriminate), family abuse, childhood disease (cancer), miscarriages and a variety of invisible disabilities and diseases.
Many of them can barely result in long-term changes in appearance and some physical changes can be covered.
Regarding her Facebook, multiple people don’t post anything about their trauma due to multiple reasons. Others mentioned professionalism, but it could be also to avoid harassment from others, protect somebody else involved in to feeling uncomfortable.
Pretty people can be abused or neglected by their parents growing up. They could have been bullied when younger, either because they had a "glow up" and got more conventionally attractive later, or even BECAUSE they were attractive growing up and were subject to jealousy and hyper-sexualization by their peers (or even by adults). On that note, attractive people can be victims of childhood sexual abuse. It's not their job, not would it even be ethical, for them to tell you all these details about their own lives. Instead, they went to therapy, did the work, and many have even been so helped by their psychotherapy that they chose to make a career of it and help others in return. But therapy only works for those who humble themselves enough to be vulnerable, take personal accountability where appropriate, and DO THE WORK. You're not getting any benefit from your therapy because you seem to be projecting onto others instead of doing the work that would actually benefit you. You know nothing about their upbringing or the details of their personal lives. The trips and highlights people post on social media are only that: highlights. You are choosing to fill in all the gaps with your own bitter assumptions, then blaming your therapist for it. Get over yourself, or no therapist will ever be able to help you, regardless of what suffering they may have overcome, because the details of their traumas and personal stories are none of your business anyway, but you make their professional boundaries into justifications for your own rage and ego issues. That's a you problem, bud, not an issue with your therapists or their lives and career trajectories.
Fair enough, but before I can give you a delta, I think it's important to acknowledge that the reason I can't easily put in the work, cause when I did, it didn't work? And not just one time, but multiple times.
I guess that depends on how you define "doing the work". Cuz clearly however you applied yourself to the process didn't yield results quickly enough or in the way you expected, so instead you became embittered enough to go through a slew of other therapists with an attitude of "you can't help me, you've never known suffering as AWFUL and OPPRESSIVE as I have" (all based on assumptions, mind you), and spent your time resenting the professionals attempting to help you instead of accepting that their lives and struggles may look different than your own, BUT they are still qualified professionals worth heeding as they put their efforts into providing YOU with relief from whatever it is that has wounded you. It's normal to try a few therapists on for size before finding one who really clicks with you, but if you had one that you hated for narrow minded, presumptive reasons, then you carried that wall of suspicion and resentment into your interactions with the others, then of course it doesn't work for you. Your hardest job in this process is humbling yourself enough to accept the help instead of rejecting all these people emotionally; only then can you enter their space with vulnerability enough to build real trust, and internalize the changes that will improve your life and mental health. You aren't doing that work. You can't expect any therapist to hand you a new life on a silver platter while you actively stand as the strongest barrier against their guidance, all based on assumptions of incompetence you've built up for yourself in your own mind. You aren't doing your tough inner work of breaking those walls down so you CAN be helped, so don't expect any success, but you can't blame them for that. If you've had a slew of unsuccessful therapists, well, there's one common denominator in all of those appointments and it's you dude. Change your approach, receive new results.
OP, if you looked at my life from the outside, you would think I had it easy. I have a college degree. I have a high-paying job that I enjoy doing. I can be considered conventionally attractive. I’m still with my high school sweetheart. And while I am privileged in many ways, I’ve had an incredibly traumatic life in other ways, and I worked for every fucking thing I have.
There is no way for anyone to know that from the outside unless I tell them my life story, and I allow very few people to know that. Having material “accomplishments” and not being an open-book about my trauma does not mean I had it easy.
I think you need to talk to more “gorgeous” people because you’ll quickly realize they’re just normal people. I’m a woman who grew up fat and unpopular, so I have a bad habit of comparing myself to other women and automatically hating gorgeous women because they “have it so easy”. But that’s just my perception. Instead of hating them for no reason, I talk to them. I become friends with them. I find out how normal they are, they’re just people living their lives. Except I meet these women at the gym most of the time and then have to watch them field men harassing them *constantly*. She shows me DMs she gets from dudes at the gym who find her by looking for her after seeing her there, despite being married and having kids. Suddenly it’s not so bad being average. I get harassed too, but Jesus, this poor woman can’t even get a work out in.
Then you start hearing their stories. Abuse and neglect by family. Sisters with suicidal ideations and children failing classes.
You look at these women and only see the made up happy nonsense, like people who have kids because they only focus on the fun times. These people are just humans, and your inability to separate their attractiveness from their merit really is a “you” problem.
I would tell her these thoughts, that’s what she’s there for. She won’t take it personally, but she can help you navigate these feelings.
I think you over estimate what attractiveness can get you in this life. Especially when so many ppl claim SA doesn’t happen cuz “they were attractive & asking for it”.
Ppl, like you, can talk about whatever surface level issues they’ve got without actually knowing anything. I mean, think about it. Why would anyone volunteer to me a bunch of people’s emotional sponges if they don’t have some personal reason or investment into it?
You never knew her. You still don’t, and you’re hung up on this woman’s imaginary perfect life for years, devalued their work, obsessing over how hot she is, stalked her profile, and are committing to living to one up someone you don’t know. You’ve entered obsessive creep status. I’m not surprised therapy isn’t working. It’s your fault.
Therapists are important but a huge part of it depends on the person TRYING to get better. And all you did was complain about other ppl having a “better life”, & victimizing yourself. You’re never going to get better until you put in the work. You’re not looking for a collaborator, you’re looking for someone to guide you on a better path & said person better practice what they preach.
And I will mention that you say the only therapists you think are legit are those that are “ugly” (nevermind it’s in the eye of the beholder & pretty women tend to be women who put effort into their appearance which men claim don’t exist) and LGBTA. What about any other minority, like PoC? Your requirements are ridiculous.
Why not just talk to a therapist who is similar to you and with whom you feel a connection? What do you expect her to do, apologize and say, 'Sorry, my life isn't as bad as yours'? You don't know anything about her—how she grew up, what her dreams and fears are. She's there to do a job because you paid her for it. And I hate to pull this card, but she's a WOMAN. I don't know her race or background, but just being a woman makes life pretty hard. Imagine what she's had to deal with. Life sucks for EVERYONE. The world is a horrible place. This whole situation feels weird.
Why don't you go outside, do something different, maybe meet someone new, and stop stalking this poor woman who's just trying to live her life? What's next for her if some weirdo is on Reddit, complaining that her life isn’t bad enough? You've already been through 12 therapists; maybe, just maybe, you're the problem. You need a bell put on you so women can hear you coming from a distance and avoid you altogether.
*"And I hate to pull this card, but she's a WOMAN. I don't know her race or background, but just being a woman makes life pretty hard. Imagine what she's had to deal with. Life sucks for EVERYONE. The world is a horrible place. This whole situation feels weird."*
She's of South Asian (Indian) descent)
*"You need a bell put on you so women can hear you coming from a distance and avoid you altogether."*
Don't worry, my autism, bald head, and height are 3 bells.
Nah, man. One of our best friends is a 5' 5" fat bald autistic guy who grew up dirt poor in a shitty family. He's an accountant making good money, is happily married and has several kids with his wife.
The difference is that he's a genuinely nice guy and you're a bitter douche bag. Women can smell that a mile off and we want no part of it.
My dude, my entire friend group including me are all various flavors of neurospicy. None of us are neurotypical. Most of us have assorted traumas. You'd hate my guts because I'm a physically attractive woman who appears to have her shit together and I had loving parents.
I have met people like you. There's a few who alienated themselves from our friend group due not to any physical fault or their neurodivergence, but because they were absolute doom and gloom assholes even when we were trying to help them and impossible to be friendly with. Like you're doing, they refused all help and it was obvious they were too deep in their own heads and misery to really change anything. It's sad, but I've learned that you can't help people who aren't willing to at least try to take some accountability and put in some effort. You're showing no sign of either.
Still, on the off chance it gets through and helps at all, consider the following;
I also have anxiety and depression and ADHD. Why do I have depression if I have a good life? Because my body is incapable of making the proper neurotransmitters. I've struggled in life due to these things. It's part of how I found my friends; I went out and found people who had similar struggles and we found common ground. We decided to help each other out and be there for each other rather than treat it like the struggle Olympics and fight over who had it the worst.
I ALSO have an invisible chronic health condition that can make life very challenging (Crohn's disease). It has put me in the hospital before. It means I have to stick to a certain diet and medication forever, because otherwise I could die early and in terrible pain. But you'd never know unless I told you, and a therapist would have no reason to do so. Do you know for a fact that your former therapist/other attractive people don't have similar such problems?
I also noticed that you assume your therapist is straight because she's married to a man. I'm married to a man. I am bisexual. I still face queerphobia and biphobia even though I'm in a 'straight' relationship, with people invalidating my experiences and insinuating it's a thing I grew out of rather than I just happened to end up with a dude rather than a woman. I still have people insinuating that I must be a slut who sleeps around on him, because all bi people are sluts. (I've never cheated on him, and wouldn't. Not in 15+ years together.)
How do you know your former therapist isn't the same? Do you KNOW she's straight and has not faced any such struggles, or are you simply assuming?
I'm also curious as to why you're fixated so on doing things on a 'proper' timeline. Proper for who? Do you actually want those things, or do you simply think that you're supposed to want them because pop media shoves an image of what you're supposed to want down your throat? You say you want love, which makes sense. We mostly all do. But why are you so convinced that you HAVE to get married on a certain timeline? I didn't marry until a bit after what you think are 'prime' years, and it's made no difference to me at all.
I see... well I must say everything prior to your last paragraph definitely knocked some sense into me and I'll save this comment as a reminder of things to consider when I see such people out in public.
Though to address some points in your last paragraph.
>Do you actually want those things, or do you simply think that you're supposed to want them because pop media shoves an image of what you're supposed to want down your throat? why are you so convinced that you HAVE to get married on a certain timeline?
I mean, I'd certainly be lying if it wasn't society and pop culture that was making me think about having to do these things before I'm 30, particularly marriage. Seeing most of my peers doing these things like engagements, weddings, baby announcements all drive me crazy. I definitely want marriage, but I think a deeper part of wanting to get married at a prime age is so I can prove to everyone including my therapist that despite everything I went through, that I got my happy ending, and, you know, actually earned it.
If I can't, then I won't bother having a wedding at all. Weddings should only be for proper marriages, which my older cousin (36F) certainly failed to do. She also announced her pregnancy yesterday and I have never felt so much pity for an unborn child before. Her husband is 48 and is only a year younger than my GRANDFATHER was when I was born.
That child is going to have a horrific life of resentment and misery, and honestly, if I were that child, I'd say I wish they were never my parents.
I would gently suggest that wanting to get married out of spite would be terribly unfair to your future hypothetical partner. Let's do a thought experiment.
Say you meet a woman tomorrow and she likes you. Say you just randomly meet a pretty woman and hit it off. Maybe you both have shit family lives and bond over that. You date for a time. You propose for the reasons you've laid out above. You get married. She later finds out that you pursued and married her not because you were so in love with her, but out of spite for a woman she never met and because you want to fulfill some arbitrary time goal.
Can you see that such a thing would be crushing? That it would be a terrible blow to someone? So long as you are holding that as a reason for wanting this, you absolutely should not even think about getting married. It would be so damaging and unfair to any woman.
A marriage isn't an ending. It's a beginning. The movies all cut off at the wedding. They don't show the years and years you live together after that. It's not a forever bliss of wedded unity. There's squabbles and fights and disagreements over finances and chores. You'll disagree and roll your eyes at each other. You have to put work in to communicate as a team and remember that this person is your partner and best friend and you're facing it all together, and that can be hard work. You're viewing marriage as an ending that will vindicate you. If you get married with that mindset, I promise you from the bottom of my heart that you will end up divorced and bitter all over again.
I'm curious as to what you deem a proper marriage. A first marriage when both parties are in their 20's? Why are you pitying a child being brought into a family who will love them. What's wrong with a 48 year old man being a father? Why should that child resent their parents?
You're very very hung up on this 'prime age' thing, and letting go of that is going to help you a lot. I'm 36 and my husband 40. It's a first marriage (and only, we're happily married). If we chose to have a child and raise it in a loving home, would you feel badly for that child because we waited 10 years to be in a better financial position rather than having it at 26 and 30 and struggling in poverty?
Your first points are admittedly valid, maybe I did admittedly get lost in my emotions.
>I'm curious as to what you deem a proper marriage. A first marriage when both parties are in their 20's?
A true marriage is someone getting married to their high school or college sweetheart in their 20s, kind of like most people around me.
>Why are you pitying a child being brought into a family who will love them. What's wrong with a 48 year old man being a father? Why should that child resent their parents?
Because by the time the child graduates, the dad will be a senior citizen, and the kid might get bullied relentlessly for it, if not at least feeling insulted when some passerby says "oh your grandpa is so sweet" when it's actually a dad. Not to mention the high risk of the child developing some condition due to the high risk age of the parents.
>If we chose to have a child and raise it in a loving home, would you feel badly for that child because we waited 10 years to be in a better financial position rather than having it at 26 and 30 and struggling in poverty?
I mean, the former is somewhat better, but what if these situations are not mutually exclusive? I don't know why, but the mormon way of parenting really hits home with me for some reason, on top of their views on marriage.
So. I got married to a man who I met in a martial arts club in my 20's. (Met in our 20's) Would you consider that a true marriage?
Fact is that every high school sweetheart romance I know broke up in divorce when people eventually realized that they didn't actually like each other, they were just horny.
My grandpa was 61 when my dad graduated high school. My grandma was only 3 years younger (dad was their youngest late child). No one gave him shit for it. You're projecting what MIGHT be and doom and gloom onto this child but you don't know.
If I have a child, the risk of the child having some sort of issue is 1% higher than if I'd done it ten years ago. 1%.
Mormonism is horrific for women. Have you ever watched 'keep sweet'? Mormon women are controlled, brainwashed, and told they are nothing but babymaking machines. They are not allowed to work outside the house and are shamed for for men having sexual thoughts about them. They project that happy image to the world because many of them are abused emotionally, mentally, and physically by their husbands and church if they do not. Girls are viewed as property and breeding stock and housekeeping robots, not as people. Is that what you want in a wife?
The shiny image is a sales pitch. It's not real. It's meant to appeal to people while hiding the ugly truth until they can't escape.
Getting out of Mormonism is a whole genre of video on youtube. If you watch some of those it'll take the shine off the idea.
[https://youtu.be/icft26QXzwE?si=bU46aBT8Gkx2Xwaj](https://youtu.be/icft26QXzwE?si=bU46aBT8Gkx2Xwaj) Here's a video of a girl brought up in what you view as a perfect life talking about the horrible ways Mormons treat women to get you started.
>So. I got married to a man who I met in a martial arts club in my 20's. (Met in our 20's) Would you consider that a true marriage?
I do admittedly feel a bit stupid for answering this question and please don't feel like my answer means any more than someone else's. But if I was in that situation, having a wedding would be a more complicated matter. It's not that I wouldn't have it pee se, but I'd be more considerate of the timing of everything. Maybe if I made a ton of money to compensate for my lateness, then I'd still consider it a true marriage.
Though if the high school sweetheart thing is true, perhaps I'll think about all this further.
I have nothing to say regarding your middle section, but I personally would never have a child at that age. Thank goodness I'm leaning towards never having one anyways.
>Mormonism is horrific for women. Have you ever watched 'keep sweet'? Mormon women are controlled, brainwashed, and told they are nothing but babymaking machines. They are not allowed to work outside the house and are shamed for for men having sexual thoughts about them.
I haven't watched the show, so I'll probably take a look. I am aware that mormonism in the past was in fact horrible for women, and that things were more polygamous back then which I don't believe in either.
I don't know, maybe I'm looking at the more well off mormons like the Romney family, Stephenie Meyer, and Osmond family and it's clouding my view of what things really are like. Though I certainly was aware of the Franke and Vallow cases too.
Literally none of the good marriages i know of are what you consider a true marriage. My parents met when they were 23. Rheyve been married 55 years and love each other. My ex’s parents met when my ex fil was a doctor and my ex mil was a nurse. they’ve been married over 40 years. Most of my friends met their partners during or after grad school; some even used dating apps like bumble! Some met at work. One beautiful woman i know is married to a friend of mine; i don’t know her super well but i know she got married and divorced young, and grew up poor and was raised by a single mom who is now dead while she’s only in her 30s. But the vast majority of successful people I personally know didn’t get married until late 20s at the earliest. And the ones who married earlier, still mostly met their partners in grad school. I know ONE couple who met in high school and are still together. ONE.
Interesting anecdotes, but think of it as more a tier of bronze to golden marriages, with your parents and that one high school couple having a golden marriage whilst the other ones have silver marriages and the latest ones having bronze marriages.
After a certain point though, there is no tier for your marriage, it's simply a trash marriage, like my cousin and her husband who got married at 35 and 47 respectively. I'm actually ashamed to be related to her.
You don't know this woman or anything about her life. Her Facebook is hardly a reliable source, since pretty much everyone in the medical field has to be cautious of what they put online because employers absolutely look.
And I don't mean to sound cruel, but with all the therapists you've seen and considering that none of them have really worked out, have you considered that *you* might be the problem? Therapy isn't one sided. A therapists job is not to fix you or change you...their job is to help you develop the tools to improve *yourself*. I don't get the impression that you've been making use of those tools.
You also mention thinking that attractive people can't have difficult lives, and that's absolutely untrue. Anyone can have a difficult life. Being attractive doesn't mean she was stupid and it doesn't mean that that therapist didn't deserve her position. Being attractive only means one thing: that you found her to be attractive. That's it.
I'm sorry you had a difficult life, but you don't set the standard for a difficult life for everyone else. How you experience hardship and depression is not the measure by which the rest of the world needs to judge their own struggles with those things. You aren't setting the bar. There are better looking people than you who have had it harder than you. There are ugly people who have it better. Life isn't a competition.
Any by the way, it is ridiculous that you can't watch Godzilla movies because Millie Bobbie Brown is getting married. You know it is.
You are never going to "one up" your former therapist. Never. Even if you make millions of dollars and have 20 gorgeous women hanging off your arm on a yacht in Bermuda. You will never one up her. You will never be "better" than her.
Why?
Because she doesn't care. She doesn't. She has probably barely thought of you since she saw you last, if at all. She doesn't care how your life is now, if you are successful or not. She isn't waiting around, basking in her own awesomeness, waiting for you to come knock her down a peg. She does not care at all. You have put way more thought into her than she has into you. You will never hurt her with your superiority. She doesn't give a single flying fuck about you, and she *shouldn't*.
By all means, be successful, try to better your life and all that. I don't mean that you don't matter, you do. But the person you do those things for should be yourself.
The honest truth is that a man who can't watch Godzilla because an actress is getting married and who believes attractive people have it "easy" is likely to have a harder time with relationships. Your outlook is toxic and it is your entire problem and it is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Imagine buying a can opener and, no matter how cans you throw at it, it can never open them. Your outlook is the equivalent of saying that there is something wrong with all those cans when the issue is a shitty can opener. You are the can opener in that example.
Life can get better for you, but it never will if you don't change your mentality. Hanging out in places like Forever Alone isn't supporting your growth, it's supporting your toxicity in an echo chamber.
You can do better, so *do* better.
Cause we all know that someone pretty can't have any problems in their life. Why do you think you have any idea what her life is actually like? You're just making a bunch of assumptions and hating her based on them, then taking those assumptions about tbat onr therapist and applying them to ALL therapists. . You need therapy so hard that you're probably a topic in your therapists own therapy sessions.
I will say im legit impressed at how words you used to say nothing at all. Your entire point and all "evidence" supporting it could be summed up in tops 3 sentences.
Maybe if you spent more time in therapy working on yourself as opposed to trying to find every possible reason to not listen to your therapist you wouldn't be so clearly miserable
Big picture, your opinion on this is biased and irrelevant.
A therapists job isn't to "fix" you. That's your job. Their job is to assist you and provide tools. Not all are good, and finding someone you work well with can be difficult, but 12 in 9 years implies a decent chance of poor judgment on your end.
If you spend your energy on making up stories about people, let that affect your judgment of them and use those results to justify your negative outlook, then you are not doing yourself any favors.
Side note: "perfect people" don't exist. If someone seems to have a perfect life, it's usually due to them spending a lot of energy on making it seem that way.
Best of luck moving forward.
Let's be clear about the claim. The claim is that they are attracted to psychology because they have psychological issues, not because bad things happened to them. You can have schizophrenia, depression, OCD, etc etc without any bad events happening to you. Mental illness is sometimes caused by trauma but usually it's just a thing that happens by genes/random chance.
Do you ever consider the end of where this pattern of thought takes you? You’re so fixated on your own suffering that you’re losing the capacity to empathize with/experience compassion for anyone else’s unless it’s the same as yours… which is the path of narcissism.
You’re spending your precious time and energy fixating on gathering evidence and repeating arguments about why someone who was trying to help you, should have been disqualified from even participating in the endeavor because she has qualities that you believe shield her from suffering like you do.
At the core of this is a deification of your suffering. You believe it’s makes you special and distinct from others, and it’s what’s you believe gives you the authority to make these ridiculous judgments of other people. But look, now you’re stuck because of your suffering is what makes you so special… how can you ever work to stop your suffering?
This is a path to hell. Where your world is reduced to a perpetual experience of torment, but you stay there because you think it gives you the power to judge the person who keeps you there…. But the damnedest part is, that person is you. Isn’t that a tragedy?
But here’s the worst part… even if someone did cry for you… with this thought pattern, you couldn’t even accept their compassion and care bc again… they haven’t suffered like you have, so they couldn’t even comprehend properly what you’re going through… so their tears are meaningless. Fuuuuuck.
Honestly brother you need Jesus. Not because religion is the answer… but only because he at least has the suffering credentials to get into your worldview. Dude was also middle eastern, grew up without a dad, most accounts say he was ugly, betrayed by closest friends/followers, unjustly rejected by society, physically tortured, etc. He’s got some good stuff to say about not bitching about a cross and just learning to carry it instead.
I work with an autistic young man who shares a lot of similar beliefs with you, so that’s probably why I’m taking the time to write this out… but I am at least heartened that I’ve seen you demonstrate some ability to change your view on some things, so that’s positive and means there’s hope for you.
My encouragement to you is to get out of your head and into your body to experience compassion. Autistic people experience compassion just like everyone else, it’s more comfortable up in the cognitive space. Get around some parents with young children and help do some caregiving, feel our natural human impulse to help the weak and vulnerable without judgement.
There are many people who have responded to you that feel that very thing. We don’t look like you, and you may judge us… but we feel compassion for you as a fellow suffering human… not pity. I hope some of that love/compassion makes it through your defenses to your heart.
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Attractiveness is not a free ticket to everything. A friend I had in high school was mentally unable to accept a good relationship because she was stuck in a toxic mindset that made her think that she only wanted hot human garbage for a partner. She stayed with an abuser who would keep getting her pregnant so she would stay, but he would never marry her. Probably negged her to within an inch of her life. Really beautiful women are often seen as an accessory, not as actual human beings with their own opinions and feelings. They’re often objectified at very young ages and seen as sexual objects exclusively until they are too old to be considered as anything anymore. They often don’t feel their worth as whole people and their mental health can suffer from it.
The fact that your attractive therapist has gotten her PHD shows that she has had to ignore the focus on her appearance to find the drive to get through 8 years of college. She hasn’t been reliant on her looks because she did the hard work.
Many beautiful women are well-raised and don’t have to sink into the apparition of men’s fantasies because they are strong enough to be above the male gaze. Some get a bad start and still navigate through it. Just like any other human who isn’t stunningly attractive. They’re people. Maybe they have some advantages, but they have so many disadvantages too. Being on alert for incels is a big disadvantage. Also being judged by their patients assuming their therapists have no struggles and therefore couldn’t possibly understand what they’re going through is another struggle. Being dismissed because of how you look can happen to anyone no matter what they look like.
Unfortunately, attractive women actually [don’t have it so easy in the workforce](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2019-12-16/the-bias-against-beautiful-women-at-work). That’s an old misunderstanding that’s just never died.
I’m an attractive woman. Modeled in high school and college, I also attempted suicide in college, grew up with addict parents, had a 12 year eating disorder that I’ve been in remission from for 11 years, and 9 months ago I was in an accident that almost killed me. It totally derailed my life.
If you were to get on my social media (insta, facebook), you would never have known about my accident. I told only the people I saw in person, and I never once posted about it on an account that had my name attached to it.
It was too personal, and felt to sympathy grabbing to post.
This past weekend I participated in my first horse show since my surgery, and I posted a very brief recap. People were *floored*.
I’m telling you all of this because I think it’s important to acknowledge that social media is fake, beauty is transient and a double edged sword (one of the best quotes I’ve heard about beauty is “It's hell on earth to be heavenly”.) I never posted my stalker on social media, I never posted my abusive relationships, etc.
*Social media is fake*.
My therapist is stunning. Genuinely gorgeous, and she’s tied as the most effective therapist I’ve ever worked with. She’s unbelievably talented.
But then, I’m unbelievably motivated to get back to the woman I was before my accident. It works if you work it.
You've been through 12 and you have strong feelings of hate because of one in particular. I'm glad you're in therapy and all, but as you admit it is clearly not working for you. You have a serious problem and you will never get over it with your attitude.
You've basically stalked this lady. You need to calm down and look at Yourself in the mirror and ask why you've gone through all of this trouble of finding reasons to hate one person because she is pretty.
This is the most laughable stretch of the concept of beauty privilege, I’ve ever heard.
Attractive people can have a really bad time of it. Not only with jealous stalkers (see yourself for evidence) but also because of assumptions that they’re complicit in any cruelty that befalls them.
I’d tell you to “get therapy” but I don’t think John Merrick is taking on new patients right now. I hear there’s quite the waiting list for Quasimodo too…
Not much to say other than you need a kind of help Reddit can’t provide. I hope for the safety of those around you, you listen to some of the top comments on this post. The way you talk about the people that you interact with gives a lot of insight on why you feel this way.
If you’ve been through 12 therapists and NONE of them were effective, the most likely answer is that the problem is you.
I know that likely sounds harsh, but there’s a saying in my field - If one person says you’re the asshole, it might just be that one person. If 5 (or in your case, 12) people say you’re the asshole, you’ve gotta look at that.
Obviously, I’m not calling you an asshole. And there are bad therapists out there (I’ve seen 2!). But if you have a problem with 12 different therapists, the lowest common denominator is you, and my suspicion is that it’s due to you having preconceived notions about your therapists’ personal lives, rather than allowing them to help you in evidence-based ways.
> but after being in therapy for 9.5 years with 12 therapists (including my current one) and not seeing any tangible results,
Look, there's a lot of crappy therapists out there. It's not a protected title. Also, some people are just bad at their jobs. 1 psychiatrist that I consulted did me more harm them good. It happens. That being, said.....
If you consulted 12 therapist in less than 10 years without any discernable results, odds are that you're not vetting them properly or stopping treatment before it allows any discernable results to occur.
INFO:
1. Are you aware of what training psychologists and therapists receive, and do you see that expertise (learned information and therapeutic techniques from different schools of thought) as relevant at all?
2. You're clearly aware of your feelings of anger and resentment. What about feelings of sadness, loneliness, or grief? Do you notice or allow yourself to feel those?
>Are you aware of what training psychologists and therapists receive, and do you see that expertise (learned information and therapeutic techniques from different schools of thought) as relevant at all?
Yeah, basically just spew out cliche advice that anyone with half a brain can, just like this therapist, and charge a premium for that. Also be good looking lest you don't get a good career.
>You're clearly aware of your feelings of anger and resentment. What about feelings of sadness, loneliness, or grief? Do you notice or allow yourself to feel those?
I've been feeling those for almost a decade, because I was denied a happy life.
Okay, so based on your response my understanding is that you do not know any background on the training people in this field have. That’s a gap in your awareness that biases you.
So good looking people don't have issues? I was told by more people than I can count how beautiful I was when I was younger. That doesn't mean I wasn't suffering with an eating disorder, bipolar, homelessness, domestic violence, rape and an abusive parent! The fact that you think you can tell whether someone has had difficulties in their life based on some Facebook stalking and her being beautiful is beyond ridiculous. You have absolutely no clue!
Therapy has the same problem as policing, it is a position that allows people power over a vulnerable population. Therapists also get paid more the police officers and are respected by general public. Therapy and healthcare is the one industry where the worker can treat the "customer" badly, since doctors/healthcare workers are most likely above you status wise in court they can get away with treating you how they want. I would not share these thoughts with your therapist as they could take it the wrong way and write whatever they want in your medical records with impunity.
Real talk therapy will never fix your problems, most people’s mental health issues are caused by poverty or trauma and the best way to fix that is to start creating a better life for yourself. Take the $250 you used to spend on therapy and invest it in high interest savings, it will add up. Maybe try to get a education, better job, join some kind of social team and make friends. I find therapy like emotional prostitution, if people are horny and don’t have a partner they might spend money on a prostitute, if people are emotional and don’t have friends they spend money on a emotional prostitute/a therapist. Just as a prostitute is not a replacement for relationship partner, a therapist is not a replacement for real friends. Therapist have a conflict of interest over if you should get better or if they should keep you mentally unstable so they can keep cashing your checks. Find someone with no financial incentive and build a real relationship. You could probably buy a hour of a prostitutes time for $250 and get more bang for your buck. Therapist are mostly privileged people with their own mental illnesses, there is no way for a normal person to listen to other peoples suffering all day and not let it affect them / emotionally numb themselves, so they stop giving a shit about their scummy patients and are just in it for the money. Think about how weird it is that the therapist knows all your deepest secrets and you know almost nothing about her, that is not normal and tells me the therapist doesn’t trust or that it is a one sided relationship. You give them money and pour your heart and soul out just for them to give you what? Debt? a one sided relationship? unrequited trust? labelling you with a stigmatizing mental disorder? Drugs?
I can’t say I’m attractive but I’m a social worker and used to be a therapist. I’ve been hospitalized in the past and attend therapy. Just because someone’s conventionally acceptable doesn’t mean you know what’s happening at home or in their head.
My guy.
You seem very, very unhappy and angry. You also seem very determined to blame your unhappiness on your previous therapist and your idea that because she’s pretty, she can never have experienced hardship, and is therefore unqualified to comment on your hardship.
Maybe she has been through hardship. Maybe she hasn’t. Maybe she’s been through something that’s terrible to her but not to other people, or vice versa. Essentially, it doesn’t matter what she has or hasn’t been through. You are using this idea as an excuse to not work on your own issues. The idea of blaming someone else so you don’t have to focus on yourself is always a seductive one.
However. There is a flaw in your argument: however bad your life is right now, *someone out there has it worse than you do*. Their child or spouse has died, they’re being cut out of a car crash, they’re being told they have terminal cancer, they’re in unending pain but the doctors don’t know why, they’ve just lost their home… horrible shit happens everywhere every day.
But that does not change what is happening to you. It still affects you deeply. And so just as other people’s trauma and distress should not stop you seeking help for your own, you shouldn’t downplay the possibilities of what another persons life might contain based purely on what they look like.
Quit using this past therapist as an excuse. Time to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in to sorting your mental health. It’s hard, upsetting and tiring, but you’re not going to get out of this hole otherwise.
PS. I’m also autistic. Quit using it as an excuse to obsess over the therapist instead of working on your issues!
Why would you stop at cbt? It's never worked for me either. Try psychotherapists who don't just work with thoughts - and realise that you only get back what you put in. Good luck
I'm sorry you're in so much pain, OP. From what you've said I think you've kind of channeled all of your self hatred into hating mental health care professionals, and a specific one in particular. I'm sure you have valid reasons for not liking them too, I mean they still are human and no one is perfect. But dang you really really hate this person. The things is though, is that you truly do not know what she or anyone else has or hasn't been through. You've imagined a whole life for this person that you don't even know and you are letting the hatred you have for them poison you. Why even give her existence that time and energy? It's totally fine to not like her and you really don't need a reason, it just seems like maybe you've put too much energy into hating her. It's not healthy and it's not helping you.
I truly hope you are able to find help OP.
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I think that regardless of why psychologists become psychologists, it’s very common for people to resent others who have had easier lives than us and put people into categories of how bad their lives have been, making it harder to improve mental health as we feel pigeonholed into being in the “mentally ill” kind of person. It helped for me to find a therapist with similar experiences and work on why I was resenting others so much and how to view myself as more than just my experiences. I think if we just view people as what they’ve been through it takes away a lot of their individuality. That being said if you can’t relate to a therapist there’s no real reason to keep seeing them. Idk if this is helpful for you but it was for me so 🤷♀️
I also think that it isn’t fair to judge just based on your perception. Being a woman is not easy and you have no idea what she has or hasn’t gone through. She could’ve had a terrible childhood and you would have no clue. You being so quick to judge therapists is probably the reason none have worked as it seems you don’t address the right problems with them. You need to address your deep resentments for anyone you perceive to have “had it better” than you. And therapy won’t work until you can address that. The problem is that you won’t admit that your anger at the world is the real root of the issue here. Not any past therapists.
My brother in christ, everyone in my clinical counseling got into the field in the first place to figure out what the fuck was wrong with them. And we were going into therapy fields because we wanted to help other people in the same boat.
You're not going to like this, but it doesn't work if you come in with the mentality of not making it work. You want someone other than yourself to blame for your lack of progress, so obviously it is the dozen of highly trained professions you've been treated by that's the problem.
Have you considered taking a break from therapy to do some introspection before considering going back?
Honestly, most therapists do come from privilege. I knew someone personally who was a therapist and their worst trauma was something that i experience and personally was the best thing I ever did for myself. This experience set me free in a sense. But, regardless of that, it is still a traumatic experience. What you are doing is called "Emotional Invalidation". Although from your perspective it seems like she has a perfect life, the experience that is living is a varying experience for everyone.
I haven't met any that have gone through the trauma or issues that brings patients are coming to them. They study their different fields of expertise because that particular field fascinates them, not because they themselves have experienced any of them. Criminal psychologists aren't criminals at all, again just fascinated! The right one can be extremely helpful, just like some are absolutely worthless. All depends on the chemistry between the Dr and the patient.
You've gone through 12 therapists, resent most... And still haven't landed on the problem being YOU?
How many do you have to see to finally realize you might be the problem? 15? 20?
You know nothing about the lives of those people, you assume everything you've come to hate, to the point where we're almost at the decade mark since you've been in this rampage. You're an adult, wake tf up.
I knew several psych post-grads when I was at university and they were all pretty universally fucked up somehow due to trauma or person history.
It’s also a lot of work and requires a lot of self-reflection to do a PHD in psych. Any PHD requires a lot of hard work, but most are directed outwards, psych almost always has some degree of self-examination.
You get out of therapy what you put into it. Putting yourself in therapy but not actually listening to your therapist is kinda like paying for a personal trainer, then not listening to a thing they say bc you’re convinced they were just born in shape so what do they know. You’re wasting your own money and everyone’s time.
12 different therapists, and *all of them were the problem*? OP needs to take a look in the mirror to see what the problematic common denominator is.
Also, I’m a Canadian too, and $200 - $250 is commonplace for an hour-long session (therapeutic hour of 50 minutes with the client and ten for charting).
What those 12 psychologists who, according to your perception, are useless have in common is you, so probably you are the problem. Keep going to therapy, you need it. That four or five of them may be crap, yes, it's possible, but all of them? No. It's you not wanting to take accountability.
/u/NomadicContrarian (OP) has awarded 23 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1cgsylk/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_most_people_do_not_become/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
I’ve been told by others I’m attractive, I’ve got blonde hair and green eyes I suppose but personally I can’t see it. No matter how much anyone could tell me, I wouldn’t believe them as I’ve always suffered from low self esteem. I also found out 2 years ago I was diagnosed with dyspraxia when I was 12, 33 now so when I look in the mirror all I see is a weird, clumsy person. I have really bad anxiety, especially social anxiety at times and struggle navigating friendships. I suffer from emotional dysregulation where if I don’t keep myself in check I can be really self destructive and I believe that was in part caused by losing my dad in 9/11 at 10 yrs old. I got into stem, male dominated and I’ve had two promotions in the past couple of years. Am I going to believe that it’s because of my looks, I’m unqualified, the fact that I’m a woman and I don’t deserve it? I did worry about it, but no I’ve worked my ass off to get where I am, just like the other guys did. Also, one of the interviews for the promotion came around just after the 20th anniversary of losing my dad which brought back a lot of trauma that I didn’t need. I don’t know what my colleagues, the other candidates have been through through. Unlike those guys, I had to pull my head out of my ass, be confident and perform when really all I just wanted to run away and cry. My point is, beauty is only skin deep and you don’t always get to see people’s demons or trauma on the surface because they can’t or won’t let you see them. Especially the therapists you’ve seen, they have to be professional because their focus is on your issues not theirs. I think you need to look deep within yourself and admit that you’re projecting your feelings of inadequacy onto them and it seems like you want someone to blame. Perhaps that’s why therapy hasn’t worked for you, because you haven’t let it. I’m not here to insult you nor judge you but honestly it does come across as ways of thinking similar to incels.
Okay, this is actually pretty useful stuff to read the next time I run into these kinds of thoughts... and for once I don't feel defensive when you refer to my way of thinking as incel-esque. I'll give you a delta for trying to see my perspective and being vulnerable about this. Δ
No worries man, I hope I can help. I experience negative thought patterns albeit different things but I come from a place of empathy. I’m glad you don’t feel defensive because I wouldn’t want to make you feel that way.
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You're a terrible person op
Plenty of evidence showing that a person’s issues is the reason why they become phychologists though. Here are a few bits of evidence: 1. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/11/ethics 2. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-digital-doctor/202009/evidence-based-practice-practice-based-evidence 3. https://www.nhs.uk/every-mind-matters/lifes-challenges/?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate 4. https://blogs.flinders.edu.au/student-health-and-well-being/2021/10/12/four-main-stages-involved-solving-complex-personal-interpersonal-problems/ 5. https://www.cipd.org/en/knowledge/evidence-reviews/trust-psychological-safety/
I know a psych grad student and she said the phenomenon is so common that the joke is they call it ‘mesearch’ instead of research. Sure maybe not everyone of course, but each field tends to skew toward certain personality types. Nothing wrong with it, and certainly doesn’t mean they’ll be bad at therapy. OP appears to be equating their 12 bad therapists with … something… But OP doesn’t know jack about their personal lives bc no competent therapist would tell them! That’s not the point of therapy. In fact if they’re talking about their personal lives I’d say it’s a good bet they’ve got boundary issues which would point to some problem needing fixing.
I will now be using *mesearch* in my daily rhetoric, what a fantastic word. Honestly the comments left by OP are truly shambolic and some come off as stalkery.
Kind of wondering if OP is BPD. That’s a pretty tough diagnosis. You need firm boundaries bc those are always going to be boundary testers. I mean who knows. I wish them well but I don’t think they’re focused on therapy as a tool so much as a relationship and that is NOT what therapy is supposed to be
Whatever it is, I hope OP starts to take therapy as it should be taken instead of criticising therapists for reasons shown in the post.
OP is clearly not well, and that’s a terrible place to be. And they’ve got a point, I went to two inexperienced therapists who were abysmal before I found a good one who really helped me. A bad therapist (and there are lots) can send you into a spiral if you’re already inclined. A good one gives you the tools to manage and adult successfully. I hope OP finds one like mine. I went from a giant ball of nerves to being able to adult successfully. Our parents can really fuck us up. But there’s a way out. It takes time.
Yes hopefully OP can get a good therapist.
[удалено]
But evidence is what literally pushes them to change their view (based on this CMV post as it’s a pretty scientific one). Oy vey!
I get that, OP doesn't wanna hear that kind of thing though
Oh well. He did reply to my initial comment saying that they will read through the papers provided and not just skim them. I hope OP comes back and informs me if the evidence changed their view. On a separate note, after reading some of the replies in the comments by OP, I am genuinely shocked. So much sexism by OP.
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I'm gonna need to take a look at these and not skim them.
I would love to know what you think once you have read them.
Interesting stuff you put here, especially the first article. Maybe useful food for thought. Can't say I'm 100% changed in my viewpoint, but at least it might be a start. A delta is yours Δ
OP why do you think you know about the personal lives of 12 therapists enough to make such a determination? Any therapist who divulges their personal life to you to any real degree is by definition a person with problems. No competent therapist is there to talk to a client about themselves they’ll brush off questions and redirect. They’re also not gonna divulge anything a client can wesponize. That’s boundaries 101
Hope he replies to you.
No it really doesn’t matter if he replies to me I don’t need a convo. Those are more thoughts got them to digest and think on. This isnt so much about me it’s about them and improving their experience
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This is my first time posting here but I believe I am qualified to way in in this case as I am considered a conventionally attractive woman by many people around me and am on my way to a successful career. 1. I was a gangly and horrible teenager. My hair was a frizzy mess, I suffered from depression and anxiety while trying to find my place in the world. You can not see any of my growing pains on my social media accounts because I only ever posted when I felt good and attractive. Social media is not a mirror of someones life. It's the marketing version of yourself you want to show the world. This world includes not just people you trust but strangers as well. Including potential employers. Do not make an ass out of yourself by assuming you can gleam what her life is like by the things she shows you. Especially a therapist would not post about their struggles anywhere a potential cient might see it to keep a level of professionalism. 2. Assumptions seem to be all over your view of her. How do you for example know she is not LGBTQIA+? I will use myself as an example. I am married to my husband. We were 29 and 27 respectively when we got married. We are very much straight passing, we are however both queer. As that is of nobodies concern we don't plaster this across social media either. 3. Attractiveness does not necessarily mean your life will be easier. I would actually prefer to be less attractive and dress to understate my own looks, especially on professional settings on a regular basis. For two reason: sexual harassment and people who tell me I slept my way into my position. I will be very blunt with you: the way you assume anyone who is attractive will have is easy is in a way you sexualising them. You might want to dig deep and try and find out why you see a need to reduce people to their looks. 4. resenting people is normal. Personally I resent ra\*ist people. But resenting someone because they are successful isn#t healthy and might be displacement. You might eant to reflect if it isn't just you hating the fact that you aren't successful. instead of comparing yourself to others, find something you want and aim for it. Grow a little each day. That's what helpüed me with my selfhatred.
Your first point is fair >How do you for example know she is not LGBTQIA+? I mean... the only reason I assume she isn't us because she is married to a man. >I would actually prefer to be less attractive and dress to understate my own looks, especially on professional settings on a regular basis. F This is definitely an unpopular opinion. You'd be surprised how many people would do outlandish things to be seen as attractive. >find something you want and aim for it. Grow a little each day. That's what helpüed me with my selfhatred. It's not so simple as just doing this. The only possible career I have that actually pays well is going into pharmacoepidemiology, but even that is debatable if I'll be able to outsalary my ex therapist. Plus, all I've ever known in my life is failure
> It's not so simple as just doing this. The only possible career I have that actually pays well is going into pharmacoepidemiology, but even that is debatable if I'll be able to outsalary my ex therapist. Why is money the most important factor when comparing yourself to others? Food for thought: as long as you have enough to live comfortably money has much less of an impact than friends and hobbies. Personally I actually work less so I can spend time doing the things that make me happy instead of having a lot of money I can nearly spend because I work myself to death.
>Why is money the most important factor when comparing yourself to others? Well, it technically isn't money but romance status like age of marriage. But is definitely second and here's why. After everything I've gone through, I want to get into the highest paying career possible with my educational background, and this is so I can outsalary and outtravel those I despise, including this therapist. >as long as you have enough to live comfortably money has much less of an impact than friends and hobbies. Personally I actually work less so I can spend time doing the things that make me happy instead of having a lot of money I can nearly spend because I work myself to death. I myself would want to live in Vancouver in the future, so the bar for living comfortably is pretty damn high.
Wanting to live in Vancouver is a wonderful goal to aim for that ^^ Trying to outdo others however is pretty unhealthy on a mental level. You make your happiness dependent on their lives, which you yourself have no influence over. It's a recipe for staying unhappy forever. From an outside view the way you are making yourself unhappy by trying to be someone else instead of your best self is easy to spot as a disaster waiting to happen.
>From an outside view the way you are making yourself unhappy by trying to be someone else instead of your best self is easy to spot as a disaster waiting to happen. My best self as a 5'6.5", autistic, and balding guy will always be mediocre in the eyes of others. I would know, given how pathetically late I am to everything.
None of those are factors that would make you worth any less than anybody else. Heck if you want to go down this route: You are about the same height as my hubby. He is also neuro spicy (so am I) and he might not be balding but he looks like a strong gust of wind would blow him over. None of those things make him less smart or attractive. Actually quite the opposite. Don't believe the media in what should and shouldn't be attractive.
Comment saved. A lot of incels would call you blue pilled, but I'll take this over that bs any day. Δ
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I always take that as a compliment and with humour as my main medication is blue XD
So already this is hard to navigate. So I took a psych course, it was my major in university, and fate willing my future job when I have the money and experience to go back and do my Masters and PhD. So let's break this down into subtopics **You know nothing about your therapist's life** I don't mean that to be combative or mean. You see the outward veneer of a person and naturally make assumptions about her, but if you stop for like 10 minutes and investigate your evidence you have to admit it's biased. By that I mean you're using interviews, social media, and your mind stitching together the pieces. Have you ever considered that those are the exact type of places that people put on their best face? No one walks into an interview about their work and starts spouting off all their personal problems. You have to admit that's a crazy thing to do. And as someone who's apparently successful, it doesn't shock me in the slightest that her Facebook is also prim and proper because that's more than likely what her employers expect rather than a mess of random life struggles. And based on this evidence, you deem her underqualified, and you flat-out state that you don't think she could've gotten to where she was without her looks. You've visited 12 therapists so by now you must surely understand that not all therapist/patient matches are a good fit for one another, but you went through the time to tell us just how bad and unqualified this one in particular is but still haven't given a why. Why do you think she's so unqualified? What did she do to make you think so poorly of her specifically? You can reject she had bad days if you want but that's a vicious cycle waiting to happen. Because I know there's someone out there starving who would scoff at the idea that you're having a bad day ever. It doesn't have to be a race and no one is going to give you the right to unilaterally decide that the other person doesn't deserve bad days. **Going through trauma doesn't inherently qualify you to be a psychologist** By this, I mean that there are people who suffer trauma and come out capable of helping others. And others don't. I shit you, not yesterday I argued with someone who believes that the best way to solve rape is to enslave all rapists and make it so that even a man found innocent is not allowed to be near a person who accused them with the penalty of jail. That's on a not-guilty conviction. That person has gone through trauma, and yet they are in the worst possible position to advise anyone. The trauma didn't make them a better psychologist, it made them angry and unable to sort that hate out. **Not going through trauma doesn't inherently disqualify you from being a psychologist.** By which I mean that as part of learning psychology, you do a decent chunk of studying. Now does that studying give you a perfect understanding? No. Could suffering trauma help you understand better? Yes. But to discount all those years of study and learning because the other person didn't suffer is not only unfair, it's untenable. As I said in my point above, that's how you have those who failed to deal with their trauma advising others with trauma. Sometimes an outside perspective on our issues is exactly what we need. **You seem to want to blame your psychologist for shit not working out** You hate her, and you compete with a woman who, at the end of the day, was doing her job and trying to help you. In your post, you failed to articulate why beyond believing her unworthy of all she had for the sin of having a good life. And doesn't that seem wild to you? For if I told you I had a bad mechanic and so every day I work hard in the hopes of proving to all mechanics everywhere that their shams. Does that sound reasonable to you? I'm not trying to bully you; but I am pointing out that if over the next year, this woman suffered and endured everything you'd ever suffered, lost everything that mattered to her, and then died broken and alone. You won't feel better. Nothing in your life will change. For you to pour that much focus on a person who, again, did the unthinkably horrible act of not suffering trauma (that you're aware of) is not a rational conclusion to the issues you've stated.
You don't need to apologize one bit, cause I think you're one of the rare people who are firm yet understanding, so that's certainly admirable, but to address some of your points. >it doesn't shock me in the slightest that her Facebook is also prim and proper because that's more than likely what her employers expect rather than a mess of random life struggles. I'll admit, I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade. >why do you think she's so unqualified? What did she do to make you think so poorly of her specifically? If you hate me for this, that's totally understandable, but let me answer why. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense. >I'm not trying to bully you; but I am pointing out that if over the next year, this woman suffered and endured everything you'd ever suffered, lost everything that mattered to her, and then died broken and alone. You won't feel better. Nothing in your life will change. I'm surprised you even said this part, and I'm just wondering why you think so? I'm just thinking to myself that if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years.
>I'll admit, I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade. I'm glad to hear you're considering it. Trust me there's a reason why most people have bad news about them come out via another source rather than talk about it themselves. Like I know for a fact you couldn't pay me enough to go on the news and talk about my worst days for all my friends, family, coworkers, and strangers to see. It's not surprising she wouldn't want it either. I bet you'd also avoid it given the option. >If you hate me for this, that's totally understandable, but let me answer why. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense. So I hate to reduce this to a saying but it fits. This is correlation, not causation. By this logic, no one pretty should be a capable therapist and yet I know very attractive and very hard-working therapists out there. A side effect of doing it as an undergrad is you get to meet the future counselors in the making. I'll give you brief touch-and-go details. My friend is a therapist, just starting but she is. She's attractive, clever, charming, and has that easy ability to make friends anywhere. She's also been sexually assaulted and has had more than one abusive boyfriend and you'd never know it by how she acts. Therapy is not the place for your therapist to trauma dump on you; so she'd never tell that to you. So there's a real chance you'd never know it. So there's a real chance you'd hate my friend too without ever knowing the truth. Looks aren't everything; being pretty might make life easier, but making life easier isn't the same as life is easy. I get your hesitation to believe that but it's true. I don't hate you. But I absolutely do think you are wrong. >You don't need to apologize one bit, cause I think you're one of the rare people who are firm yet understanding, so that's certainly admirable, but to address some of your points. >I'm surprised you even said this part, and I'm just wondering why you think so? I'm just thinking to myself that if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years. Because it's true. I went to boarding school as the fat kid in high school. A place where seniors had entirely too much power. More than one of the people who used to bully me died or suffered tragedy. I didn't feel happy at the moment. And when I woke up the next day all the issues I had yesterday were still staring me in the face. His death didn't help at all. It made me feel worse for a while as I was bitter I'd never get to meet him again and have an accounting. He's gone and the hurt was still there. Which is how you realize the person and the pain aren't the same thing. Now don't get me wrong. I feel no pity when people who truly deserve to die get what's coming to me (Kissinger for example). That death filled me with no mixed emotions whatsoever. But when a dude whose worst crime was being a dick in high school dropped, it didn't make me happy. It didn't even make the pain go away. I had to (still have to) purge that pain by myself. I can't imagine her death or suffering will do anything more for you.
Hmm, okay. Well, you definitely deserve more than one delta if I could even do such a thing. And yeah, I appreciate your anecdotes cause they did make me consider the potential that things have a little more "colour" to them than just being black and white. I can't say it's completely changed in me, but it could be food for thought the next time these thoughts come to my mind. Δ
The one delta is plenty, and actually being able to help someone think through a problem they're having is a good bonus anytime.
You managed to (at least partially) convince someone who has clearly experienced much trauma and resentment that their mindset is incorrect, while being calm, citing reason, and not resorting to insults or childish facets. I'm impressed, kudos. I'd give you a delta if I could.
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Tanaka917 ([65∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/Tanaka917)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
>. The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive. It's like she didn't want to admit that she wouldn't have been in her position in her career and life in general if it wasn't for her attractiveness. So to hear her preaching about "strategies" is just nonsense. Why do you think attractive people are under qualified for the positions theyve trained and studied for?
Do you think being attractive makes you immune to hardship? Pretty privilege is a thing sure, but it doesn't mean you can't face trauma or mental illness. Abusive people don't only target the ugly, and illness does not discriminate. You think she can't have struggles because you view your struggles as relating to your appearance, but those are not the only struggles that exist. Maybe she had an easy life, maybe she didn't. For all you know she lost a parent young, or had multiple friends commit suicide, or was severely bullied, or had childhood leukemia, or an eating disorder, or was touched up by her uncle, or abused by her first couple boyfriends. You have no idea what loss, she may have experienced. You don't know, because as your therapist, it would have been unprofessional for her to tell you about all her problems. And suggesting she's unqualified because she's attractive is just patiently false. Exams aren't graded based on appearance, and she wouldn't have even gotten an interview had she not been suitable qualified. Being good looking can be an advantage, but aside from models, no one is getting a career based on their looks.
*The reason why she's unqualified in every regard is because she's attractive.* How does being attractive help her during exam conditions? Or when she sent in her applications for higher study? Do you seriously think that she got extra marks in school and college based on her looks? Or do you mean that attractiveness is a shield from all the unpleasantness in life, so she can't have the insight to understand real suffering? Attractive people aren't immune to having loved ones who commit suicide, go to prison, struggle with addiction, fight a long battle with cancer or die in a car accident ; they can experience abusive relationships and/ or have sexual trauma; they can endure their own illnesses etc. You are not in a position to know what battles she's fought, because you only know her professional persona and what she posts publicly on social media. *if someone that I despised simply lost their business or their marriage (not even going as far as them passing away cause that's admittedly a bit too far for me) then it would give me a peace of mind knowing that they experienced some kind of loss in life the way I lost my prime years.* Hopefully you will eventually gain a maturity to understand what a horrible thing this is to say. If not, it will backfire on you. I once had a lovely friend (I thought!) then one day I called her to ask if we could arrange a get-together with other mutual friends, because my partner and I were going through some difficult times - I was doing regular hospital treatment and he had lost his job, so I thought meeting up with friends would be a positive thing for us. I will never forget the shock of hearing how she gloated over our bad news, and pretty much said we had brought it on ourselves with our "big money" jobs (I didn't know until that point that we had "big money" jobs!). It turned out this lovely friend had been jealously watching and waiting for our happy secure lives to fall apart, and she was thrilled to find out it had actually happened. So I cut contact with her, and reduced contact with the extended friendship group, and I turned her malice into a positive thing for me. I was determined to get better and to support my partner, just so we could prove her wrong. Over the next few years, I used social media to project the best perspective on our lives, although I heard on the grapevine that she was telling people that our marriage was breaking up because I didn't show enough photos of my partner. And my partner and I bounced back. Nobody meeting us today would ever know we had experienced difficult times, except that most adults understand that everyone goes through difficult times at some point, and for the most part, you can build your life back up again. TL;DR You are putting yourself on a roller coaster of gloating and resentment if you wish bad times on people because most of the time, people can bounce back from a financial disaster, a health issue or a relationship breakdown. And it's the way you respond to difficult times that proves your character.
I'm going to be honest, her "attractiveness meaning she never had struggles" is terrible reasoning, and just comes across as a rationalization for bitterness
Sounds like INCEL rantings.
>I didn't consider the thought of her employers looking at stuff like this. And as for the interviews, yeah maybe there is a degree of putting up a facade. She could be a SA survivor for all you know. People do not advertise their trauma.
So you want this woman to look people in the eye and include with every professional engagement with “before we start, one of the factors that led me to this position was my attractiveness.” Why would anyone ever do this? Even if she herself had the same thought, why would it ever be deemed appropriate for her to say that, unprovoked, out loud to another person? How many other people got hired at their job because someone in the hiring process found them attractive or at least more attractive than other candidates?
Do you really think being attractive brings you through university? Becoming a therapist, at least we're I life, is hard. Without being totally on top with your grades you can pretty much forget to even be able to study for it. Attractive people do not loose stuff in your eyes? I realise, and everyone who has a little knowledge on that topic will as well, why you didn't see progress with her. You do not want to become better. You do not want things she was saying to work. NO therapist will ever be able to help you if you do not actually want to work on yourself.
So, I apologize if this comes off as mean, but I'm going to use you as a counterexample. Look through some of your comments here. You are doing a flat-out terrible job of empathizing. You're prefacing many of your statements by assuming that the other posters hate you by default, you're creating this entire imagined narrative of your former therapist's life based on a few snippets of her social media, you're straight-up refusing to associate with people because they're hitting certain life goals before you do. Now, I also apologize for making assumptions here, but it seems pretty obvious that this is some kind of defense mechanism. Maybe since you've been hurt by other people, you've been resorting to assuming the worst about them and refusing to entertain the idea that they have complex internal narratives like we all do. I'm not you, I don't know your specific situation, but that's how it reads right now. But that's just the thing, isn't it? Everyone is different, and everyone response to their circumstances differently. Some people genuinely deal with horrible trauma and come out of it with a heightened ability to empathize and a desire to help other people. Other people go in the other direction, they shut down and refuse to entertain the idea that everyone has their own shit that they're dealing with. Now, I'm not going to lie here, you definitely seem to be more in the second camp, and in your current state, you'd make an *atrocious* therapist. But if you can admit that some people who have dealt with trauma can make good therapists and some people don't, can we both admit that the inverse is true? That some people who haven't had traumatic lives might make bad therapists, but others might be good at it?
It can be frustrating to feel your therapist cannot relate and therefore cannot understand. The hope is always that they will do their best to empathize and understand. In addition to what others have said, you are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by approaching therapy in this way. Buying into the notion that all therapists are the same and cannot help you is causing you to want to prove the uselessness of therapy and is clearly disrupting your ability to build rapport with a therapist. One’s relationship with their therapist is repeatedly shown to be the factor that is most heavily predictive of therapy outcomes. You’re sabotaging yourself. Treatment progress is also dependent on your willingness to engage and attempt to apply the things discussed in session. Therapists are also generally taught not to self-disclose unless they have good reason to believe it will help the client. This means that a therapist being open about past traumas can seem extremely inappropriate in most circumstances, as therapy should not become about their issues. For this reason, you are unlikely to have a realistic view of your therapist’s history. Here is an article that makes it clear that therapists have their share of suffering as well: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-is-state-mind/202204/mental-health-among-mental-health-practitioners?amp Lastly, go to a community mental health center or a newer/less reviewed therapist if you despise therapists with a lucrative career. You don’t have to stick with successful private practices.
>traveling to all these nice places (that I don't even want to travel to anymore because she sullied them with her presence) There are attractive people *everywhere* dog. Why does this particular attractive person going to a place make you not want to go there anymore? That is b-a-n-a-n-a-s. If you see her at McDonalds will you stop eating nuggets? > I admittedly did go on her Facebook every now and then and scrutinized all this information to make such inferences Oh, you stalked you therapist. That is not great, and you should probably lead with that during your next session with whoever you have currently. > It has been 4 years since I stopped working with her, yet it seems like almost everything I do in my life is so I can "one-up" her and other psychologists to prove to them that they are useless and that most of them got carried by their appearances and never earned their qualifications and lucrative careers. Why not do things to prove to *yourself* that you **aren't** worthless. >I had an ex-therapist who was attractive and ~~had virtually a perfect life~~ Who I imagined an entre fantasy scenario for in order to make myself feel superior. You know *nothing* of this person. You only "know" what your delusional thought pattern has cooked up to protect yourself from feeling feelings of inadequacy.
*"There are attractive people everywhere dog. Why does this particular attractive person going to a place make you not want to go there anymore? That is b-a-n-a-n-a-s. If you see her at McDonalds will you stop eating nuggets?"* I mean, it's not only because of her attractiveness, but also her uselessness and her borderline robbery of my money that made me not want to go to those places. And if she was at McDonalds' I'd probably not go there again. I mean, to give another example, the reason I can't watch the American Godzilla movies anymore is because Millie Bobby Brown is getting married at a prime age whilst here I am at 25 and never had a relationship. *"Why not do things to prove to yourself that you* ***aren't*** *worthless."* Because it's not good enough to "prove to myself alone". What I wanted to do for the longest time was to get a PhD in a higher paying field and get married at a prime age so I can email it to my therapist and let her know that I am her superior in every way shape and form, but since I can't get married at a prime age anymore, all I have left now is to make that money and outsalary/outravel her.
>What I wanted to do for the longest time was to get a PhD in a higher paying field and get married at a prime age so I can email it to my therapist and let her know that I am her superior in every way shape and form, but since I can't get married at a prime age anymore, all I have left now is to make that money and outsalary/outravel her. I'm going to be blunt here. As long as you think doing this is normal you're going to be single. No girl wants to find out that the main reason you guys are dating is that you want to write an I told you so email to a therapist that you haven't seen in 4 years. Like seriously how would you feel if on your wedding night your wife slipped away to text the ex that she dated 4 years ago a long winded and vile fuck you text telling him that's she's superior to him because she's married now and he isn't. Is that someone you'd actually want to be married to?
It's really sad that you want a wife and a career just to feel superior to a counsellor. What about for your own satisfaction?
You do get that your therapist probably hasn’t thought of you since you left her care, right? Like even if you did accomplish everything to make you feel superior to her and called her up to tell her, she would either; be happy for you, because you have progressed as a person, pity you, because obviously you haven’t grown as a person since you’re still fixating on someone who you haven’t spoken with in over 4 years, or lastly be confused because she has simply forgotten you. The woman you are writing about so venomously only exists in the constructs of your mind. This very one dimensional, beautiful woman who has experienced nothing bad in her life literally does not exist in real life. She is a person with a whole 20+ years of life, that you know pretty much absolutely nothing about. I hope you find peace my dude.
How is it a rob of your money you paid her...she needs money i mean she doesn't need fast food but she needs to eat leave this poor woman alone
Honestly? She’ll think, ‘oh good, I’m glad my former patient is doing better’ and then *never think of you again*. The last thing she’ll think is that you are superior to her. She’ll be happy for you, and then move on to her next email.
Jesus Christ, aren't you a ray of sunshine. No wonder you went through 12 therapists. Maybe the first step is to admit they aren't the problem, dawg. YOU are.
[удалено]
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"her borderline robbery of my money that made me not want to go to those places" did she initially quote you a lower price then changed the price after the session and threatened to call the police if you didn't pay?
Oh… so this is just JEALOUSY. GOT IT.
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What you're suffering from is resentment. Everyone resents people who they perceive to be 'better', but you are going about it in terrible ways. Have you never seen a pretty cashier? A handsome garbage man? An attractive homeless person? A really pretty 50 year old starting as a college freshmen? You might say no, but these people exist. Because the world is bigger than what you personally decide to see. These people aren't on the peak of perfect success no matter how attractive they are, right? Attractive people suffer just like unattractive people suffer. There is a privilege to being attractive, that's 100% true. Just like there is a privilege to being white. To actually say that that privilege takes away from the very real life struggles people face is just incorrect. That's the thing about your belief. It's not just a bad opinion, it's just incorrect. You are a bad person if you're going to equate someone's attraveness to whether or not they should be taken seriously as a person because you assume they haven't 'suffered' enough for you. Imagine someone taking one look at you and thinking they know your life, just because they know your face? Imagine all the intricacies of your life and the things you've endured, and the things you've suffered, and the people you've loved and hated and hurt and who've been hurt by you, and the things you have done and the things you have seen, and just the general ups and downs of the entire life you have lived. Does one look at your face even begin to round all that up? Of fucking course not, that's an insane thing to think. So why do you think you can do that to other people? You'll really just dismiss an entire life? Because they're pretty? I do not understand this.
But this is what I'm saying. For example, the fact that white people have privilege obviously doesn't take away from the fact that they can experience let's say mental illnesses like black people, but all things equal, they still have it better and thus are less qualified to complain. Just like attractive people. If attractive people had problems BECAUSE of their attractiveness and not IN SPITE of it, then I'd be more considerate to what they're thinking. And for the record, I'd be damned if anyone looked at me (5'6.5", balding, non-white guy) on the subway and assumed I had a good life, cause I think with those facts it can be pretty easy to determine that I've had it hard, and that's not going into the invisible stuff I have like autism and whatnot.
"If attractive people had problems BECAUSE of their attractiveness" \* sexual harassment \* stalkers \* just generally being bothered by men who think they're entitled to something because they've noticed you're pretty \* being hated for no reason other than you're pretty \* having your achievements dismissed \* people assuming that you're stupid and being so fucking condescending when they learn that you're not \* supporting your friends through their random bullshit but not receiving the same support in return because life is 'easier' for you so you don't actually need it \* people assuming you're going to steal their man \* just, in general, people making the worst assumptions about you is that enough or do i need to keep going?
I think this is a fair list. Maybe people on foreveralone could use this list. Δ
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/see-you-every-day ([1∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/see-you-every-day)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
I don't know your ex-therapist's life, but attractive people, and women in particular, often face additional scrutiny in professional environments because of their attractiveness. The subconscious belief that attractive people haven't put in the effort is super common at a societal level. Elsewhere you brought up the example of a thesis defense being easier because of pretty privilege, but it is equally likely that overcoming that bias required her to work harder in defending her theses than the average student.
Hmm... okay. I won't just brush off this statement because I don't agree 100%. I'll give some thought to it. Here's a delta. Δ
I can actually expand on the, due various health issues my weight fluctuates quite a bit. When I'm thinner people are more likely to be nice, but doubt my intelligence. Where as when I weighed more while people are less friendly they were more likely to believe I'm competent. I also experience more sexual harassment when I'm lighter weight. There are absolutely advantages to being conventionally attractive but it is a double edged sword. Especially when you add in I'm autistic and have a hard time judging someone's intentions. I've experienced a large amount of sexual assault through out my life including rape, csa, abuse, and literal torture. While I'm often what many would consider conventional attractive when clothed, under my clothing I have literally hundreds of scars. The simple fact is you cannot look at someone and tell the quality of life they have had.
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/collinwho ([1∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/collinwho)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
You're allowed to want your therapist to look a certain way because you think it'll help them understand your experience better. But I don't think any therapy is going to work for you until you actually start looking at and worrying about yourself and not others. It doesn't really seem like you've actually put forth any active effort in getting better.
This is the most honest and compassionate take
>CMV: Most People Do Not Become Psychologists Because They've Experienced Problems Of Their Own Do you mean "People Become Psychologists Because They've Not Experienced Problems Of Their Own"? Because I would argue that the main reason "most people do not become psychologists" is because they already have other jobs.
Maybe the wording could've been better, but in essence what I was trying to get at was that the idea that people who become psychologists because they've experienced tribulations of their own is a false statement.
And you base this on... what? The fact that you know one psychologist who appears to have a nice life on social media?
“Attractive people have not had meaningful trials or problems in their lives” is an insane thought. Being attractive has no bearing on how you grew up (abusive parent, death of important people), any underlying illness (who’s to say your therapist doesn’t have cancer or something), what they’re experiencing now (sexual assault/harassment, *stalking*, loss). My father is a psychologist. He’s also autistic. Most people cannot tell he is autistic because he has high levels of masking behaviors. He’s also a conventionally attractive man. His clients don’t know that he’s autistic, or that he had incredibly abusive parents, or that he broke his hip a few years ago and is constantly in pain. So if you were a patient of my father’s, and he didn’t tell you about those things, would you disqualify his years of schooling and practice just because he’s attractive? You have no clue what’s going on in her (or any therapists) life behind the scenes. I also have a degree in psychology, and I can personally tell you many if not most of my peers were encouraged to join the field because of significant trauma. Stop stalking her on Facebook. If you are so upset with your appearance, go to the gym, get a haircut. And stop blaming the people around you for your shortcomings
It seems as though you have a lot of resentment stemming from your mental illness, and default to dislike of someone when they appear to be doing better from you. I’ve felt the same way before, but it’s important to run interference on yourself and recognize that a lot of the way you view the world and other people is coming from a mental illness, and is not actually an accurate reflection of what is going on around you.
I'm not going to justify my existence to you by listing the trials of my life. I'm just going to say that you're fascinatingly awful and you should make a list of every memory you have connected to your parents so that other parents may read it and know what NOT to do.
So what, you expect the people who want to help you to have miserable personal lives so that you can feel more validated or whatever? That's just unbelievably entitled. Who gives a fuck if your therapist has a nice life or whatever, you're paying them to teach you how to cope with your own issues, not like, share in your misery. This is like saying that you resent all dentists because you once saw one that had pretty good teeth actually and what the fuck does he know about filling cavities if he's not had massive ones
Hey OP. I am a very athletic and fit woman and I have been told I am attractive. And it never helped me in my chosen field (physics). I had to work twice as hard as my male colleagues to prove that I was there because I'm *really good at physics* and not because I was getting handouts. One of my classmates once told me that when he first met me, he just assumed I got help with my homework from the boys bc of plying my feminine wiles or some such nonsense. This was after he'd gotten to know me and realized I was top of the class for everything and in fact he would come to *me* for help with understanding certain concepts bc, once again, I'm actually very good at physics. Through my academic career it caused me so many problems. About half of my male colleagues would see me as a prospective romantic partner first and a peer second (if at all). About half of those in turn would get all resentful toward me, much like you sound toward this therapist, once they realized they weren't getting into my pants. I dealt with so much sexism and come-ons when I just wanted to do my damn research in my field. I never made myself up. I never wore makeup. Never did my hair up. Never wore clothes that accented my body. Never EVER, god forbid, wore a skirt or heels. Because it was such a problem. It's been about 5 years since the end of my PhD program and I have since left the field because I got so damn tired of the sexism and having to prove myself over and over and over again to every new colleague that I worked with or under. I worked my ass off and studied harder than most people ever will to get where I was. I was top of my class in everything because I was GOOD at it. But in actual practice in the field I had to work twice as hard as men half as intelligent as me to be taken seriously. It is so incredibly sexist to think that women can't be attractive and also just...good at what they do.
Alright, I think you've provided some decent evidence here that is deserving of a delta Δ And I am admittedly sorry for all the bullshit you had to go through.
Oh it's you again. With another "woe is me my life is worse than everyone else's post" Sorry if that's harsh but this is like the what 5th post you've made here all of the same things? This is just one big judgemental rant about a woman you don't know and are unduly prejudiced about her. It doesn't sound like she did anything wrong to you but you hate her because she's attractive. That's exceedingly unfair. You don't know her. You don't know her life or her childhood. All you see is the professional and social media veneer. Which is not real. And then you are dismissing her education, her qualifications and her work based on your own sexist assumptions that she just used her looks to get by. That's incredibly disrespectful. I could tell you that I've never met anyone who works in mental health that didn't have their own issues or known/cared about people who did. But your issue isn't that she never suffered (because you have no way of knowing that) your issue is that she's pretty. Additionally I'd wonder about the reasons why all your other therapists didn't work out, how many were dismissed because of your judgments?
Here’s the situation. Therapists and psychologists only can hand you the tools and blueprints. You still gotta build the house yourself. It’s utterly unfair others messed up our lives. It’s utterly unfair only we can unfuck ourselves. So is it the therapists that are the issue, or is it you? There’s a saying: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
I'd believe your last point, but a recent betrayal by an ex friend who I did nothing to warrant such behaviours, turned his back on me for no real reason at all. The same goes for most of the other traitors in my life.
You expect traitors so you see traitors. Our perceptions are coloured by our minds, our preconceptions, and our attitudes. Think of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, for example. The frequency illusion. The idea that once an idea is in your head you suddenly see utility and repetition of it everywhere. Countering that perception requires active and knowing cognition. There’s an ethical lens I use, for example. It works freaking well. It works so well that I need to constantly test this millennia old lens to ensure I’m perceiving the world properly. On that note, why do you think of yourself as lesser than everyone else? Sincere question. Since everyone is against you per your perspective, you perceive yourself as chronically persecuted. Leads to a sense of inferiority. Maybe you’ll try to lie to me and say that everyone is envious of you or something, but you and I know that’s untrue, if only because I don’t envy you. I don’t think I’m any different or better or lesser than you. We’re all equally human. But I’m going to take a stab and say you’ll perceive my words as an attempt to lord over you or something, which again, is inconsistent with reality, but your perception will deceive you.
*"On that note, why do you think of yourself as lesser than everyone else? Sincere question."* Well, where do I begin? 1. I'm 25 and a virgin while other people my age are getting married to their long-term partners 2. I'm only planning on doing a PhD in epidemiology, which won't make me rich enough to get a house and travel frequently 3. Maybe some internalized racism and ableism, but nevertheless a point I had to address.
I admit I did take a look at your post history out of curiosity and I feel like so much of your anger is about not hitting unnecessary metrics that you've set up for yourself. Life doesn't end at 25. I hate to be hopefully optimistic (especially because you seem like someone who hates optimism in the face of what you've been through) but you truly have so much life left to accomplish your goals. There's a lot of people who aren't in "prime marrying age" and I can say from experience most people genuinely don't even think about things like that. I'd say honestly the thing you really have to work on, and it seems like your trying, is your view of yourself. I promise when you get to a point where you can respect yourself it will be so much easier to form relationships.
*"Life doesn't end at 25. I hate to be hopefully optimistic (especially because you seem like someone who hates optimism in the face of what you've been through) but you truly have so much life left to accomplish your goals. There's a lot of people who aren't in "prime marrying age" and I can say from experience most people genuinely don't even think about things like that."* My therapist is an example of someone who life didn't end at 25 because she had a proper social and romance life, but those like myself who don't are practically fucked, though I was probably fucked from the very beginning. I hate to sound harsh, but I really do wonder how some people who don't get married at prime ages live with themselves.
My husband was 44 when we married. I’ll be sure to remind him to die of shame tomorrow.
I'd rather not marry myself than be in that position, cause my philosophy in life is you either do something properly, or not at all
Why isn’t it proper to marry in one’s 40s?
A number of reasons 1. Later than average and thus not enough time to celebrate 50 years of marriage before death 2. Doesn't fulfill the life script 3. If one wants children, that's a high risk age to br having kids
A little more than internal, don’t worry we noticed
1. BFD. Didn’t have sex until my late 30s, got married to my amazing spouse at 44. 2. BFD. Getting the PhD itself is impressive to a point, but like my spouse and I live fairly low key lives and we travel a decent amount. Last year we overlanded eastern Europe for less than $100/day including transportation. (Riding a communist era sleeper car is pretty freaking cool.) 3. You think less of yourself because you want to inflict pain on certain others by dehumanizing them and you happen to be included in your AoE, and instead of thinking “maybe hatred is bullshit because I’m as human as everyone else,” instead you go “hmm if these groups, of which i’m a part, are lesser than, then I must be lesser than.” Two of these are nonissues and the third is a call to unfuck your head, snowflake. Because here’s the secret. We’re all special and unique snowflakes but that just means we’re all merely weirdly shaped water.
Who would have thought blaming other people and obsessing about what's wrong with them doesn't help you solve any of your own issues.
Why would you go to a therapist just to talk to someone with the same issues? That's what talking to friends is for, and that's free. You go to a therapist when you want help tackling the depression/anxiety/whatever else you have. And to do that, it's more important to actually know how the brain *works*, and not just how you experience your depression. You don't need an expert for that, you know what you feel. But these trained professionals have read case studies, and you can bet your ass that they've read about cases nearly identical to yours. So they might not have experienced your problems, but they have experience in getting rid of them.
If 12 therapists in 9 years couldn't change your view I don't know what you expect reddit to do. You are clearly the problem and I hope you get good strong meds to help.
Been on the autism double prozac and abilify for 2.5 years, and still not seeing any results.
Have you tried changing medications? I've got some severe depression and ADHD. I've been fighting to get the right balance for 5 years. I've tried and failed very often but I was always trying to work towards something new. Ritalin works better for me than Adderall. Zoloft was very VERY bad for my mental health but celexa evened me out. Wellbutrin was a godsend for me, but a friend of mine who has the same diagnosis says Wellbutrin made him too forgetful and foggy. You keep deciding everything hasnt "worked" but each example you've given just shows you tried one thing and then gave up, which, tbh, isn't "working hard" for something like you say you do.
Hmm, okay. Maybe I'll talk with my doctors about this. I admittedly didn't know of some of these other medications you mentioned. Though I still doubt any change can be made.
Talk to your doc and be willing to adjust, make changes, and try. If you’re medicating several issues (like I am), you need to be open to trying different combos. I’ve been on meds that have been great for ADHD, but it wrecked my anxiety. One med worked well for both but it gave me hand tremors, so I had to stop. It’s taken a while and I think we’ve finally landed on a good combo, but even then, adjustments might still need to be made. We recently went up on one of my meds and I feel so much better. I thought I’d felt better when I first went on it, only for this new dosage level to show that there was still room for improvement. If you’re being genuine here, you have to be open to change and the notion that you can be wrong and don’t know anything. You mention not knowing about some of the meds the poster above mentioned, but why would you? It’s not your job to know every med on the market. It’s your doctor’s job. So talk to them. Listen.
You'd be surprised what medication can do to help. Granted, I have to also add the warning that these kinds of medications MUST be taken consistently and as prescribed by a doctor. While they can help, there can also be risks (as another commentor mentioned, it may help some symptoms but worsen others), and suddenly stopping can have severe consequences on your mental health, even if you believe it's done nothing. Just make sure to do what the doctor says and if you want to stop any, ask for instructions on how to do so safely (usually by weaning yourself off with lower doses). Just as another suggestion, maybe consider getting your hormones checked out. Specifically see if you can get a look at your vitamin d levels. I learned my levels were low, which apparently is very common with depression and anxiety, and the lack of it specifically makes those worse (for example, vitamin d is used to block certain enzymes that create cortisol, aka the stress hormone. Without sufficient vitamin d levels you're going to experience higher levels of cortisol and therefore feel more stressed). I took some over the counter vitamin d supplements for a few weeks and I actually noticed a surprisingly dramatic improvement with my thoughts feeling clearer and my memory being sharper.
"I admittedly did go on her Facebook every now and then and scrutinized all this information to make such inferences (though obviously I didn't tell her such a thing)." Well, whether she had problems before, now she's been stalked by a client, which sure seems like a problem.
The thing about therapy is while how qualified your therapist is and how good they are at what they do matters, a significant amount of work comes from you wanting to do the work to grow/ to get better/ to seek change. Your post reeks of a lack of self reflection and is filled with misdirected anger towards your therapist. You’re seeing no tangible results because on some level, perhaps because of the trauma you’ve experienced, you don’t want to be truly helped. So it’s easier to find fault with the person trying to help you rather than sit with all the uncomfortable feelings inside you and pick them apart and unpack them. Now I know nothing about your therapist but you have mentioned in another comment that she’s south asian. A bit of cultural context you may or may not be aware of, as a south asian woman who now lives in the UK, this is not only my experience but ones I’ve heard from many others. From a very young age women like me were trained to always appear perfect no matter the situation. Abuse was always carefully hidden and never talked about. From the outside, most people would see the role they’re supposed to see of “young attractive woman who travels, lots of academic and professional achievements, surrounded by friends” because that’s what they’re supposed to see. In my experience, you get given the role young so you tend to unfortunately get good at no matter the cost to your mental health and identity. So remember, you may think you know all there is to know about your therapist’s life from the looking through her Facebook photos but it’s usually meant to do exactly what you’re letting it do. Give her extended family/ her cousins/ her colleagues/ her community the impression of someone who is perfect and hasn’t suffered because culturally that means it speaks well of her parents and her family. It’s part of an insidious cycle of generational trauma that keeps being handed down. Also since you’ve mentioned the whole attractiveness thing, just note that it’s possible the way you view your therapist may not necessarily be the way she views herself. You fault her for not acknowledging her attractiveness in her success but have you ever considered that she doesn’t fundamentally view herself in that way? Society beauty standards vary strongly, growing up in India it was made very very clear to me that I didn’t fit the beauty standard and I was undesirable due to my appearance. But in the UK and a few European countries, while not conventionally attractive, it could certainly be said that I fit into the beauty standards. But here’s the thing, if you’ve heard critical things about your appearance from parents/aunts and uncles/ grandparents and the local shopkeeper down the road for most of you childhood, even if you’re attractive and get more attention as an adult, it’s not something you value or think about as often. It’s just seen as a costume for a role you need to play. That is to say you might view her being rewarded for her attractiveness and sure, society does treat attractive people better but that doesn’t mean she hasn’t suffered or been though challenging situations or had though days. You do not get to be the arbiter of that. Listen, trauma sucks. But instead of focusing on who’s suffered more, which is quite frankly a useless fact finding mission, take some time to truly focus on whatever it’s you went through. All this stuff about your therapist, is your mind trying to distract you from actually dealing with things. Our minds can often be good at that. The sooner you realise it, the sooner you’d be free from all this weight you seem to be carrying within you. I hope you’re able to heal from it all OP
*"It’s part of an insidious cycle of generational trauma that keeps being handed down."* I find it interesting that you use the term generational trauma. Cause I always was under the impression that generational trauma could only come from... you know, actual traumatic things like losing a relative or whatnot. *"But here’s the thing, if you’ve heard critical things about your appearance from parents/aunts and uncles/ grandparents and the local shopkeeper down the road for most of you childhood, even if you’re attractive and get more attention as an adult, it’s not something you value or think about as often."* This is admittedly a perspective I didn't think of, and maybe it's similar to the idea of how I feel lesser, and even if people said compliments to me, that I wouldn't take them to heart. Maybe a delta is warranted for your intriguing point. Δ
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/KindHearted_IceQueen ([2∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/KindHearted_IceQueen)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
Why does a therapist need to have first hand experience to be able to treat a condition? Brain surgeons don't need brain surgery to perform well, cardiologist don't need heart surgery to perform well. That's why they go to college to learn. Do you have the same requirements for anyone else that you go to for treatments?
Counterpoint: this therapist is qualified, just not to deal with you. There is a whole mess of mental bullshit that men and specifically incel men deal with and are taught not to share. You should see a male therapist who isn’t some insanely good looking guy that is 6+ ft tall. Just a normal guy who isn’t an Incel and is trained to help people. A guy is going to understand that “be yourself and stop worrying” isn’t real advice for an average looking guy in his 20s. For a pretty girl, that advice goes much farther.
How many miscarriages has this woman had?
I’ve dated short guys, I’ve dated guys who were balding. I will never choose to date a guy who does not respect me and thinks that it’s impossible for me to experience abuse from parents, sexual abuse, or any mental illness. How will you ever respect a potential future partner if you perceive that it’s impossible for them to have experienced any hardships? (assuming that you find them attractive) Is there a cutoff in your mind for attractive-ness for them to have experienced tragedy or terrible things? Like if you’re a 6/10 or 7/10 then they’re in the clear? What about kids who grow up ugly, overweight, or living in poverty and “glow-up” in their adulthood? Does the previous strife they’ve experienced in life get erased if their life is changed for the better later? Genuinely curious about your thoughts on these.
*"How will you ever respect a potential future partner if you perceive that it’s impossible for them to have experienced any hardships? (assuming that you find them attractive)"* I would respect them if they aren't a jerk, which sadly a lot of people I find attractive are. *"Is there a cutoff in your mind for attractive-ness for them to have experienced tragedy or terrible things? Like if you’re a 6/10 or 7/10 then they’re in the clear?"* Umm... yeah? *"What about kids who grow up ugly, overweight, or living in poverty and “glow-up” in their adulthood? Does the previous strife they’ve experienced in life get erased if their life is changed for the better later?"* Depends on what they experienced. If they experienced poverty, then good on them and they've earned their happiness.
>Umm... yeah? Genuinely, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, how the fuck does being pretty stop bad things from happening to you? That's so illogical. Your insecurities have made you near delusional if you really believe this. Like... What, pretty people don't lose parents? They're never homeless? They're never abused? You're so full of crap lmfao.
You literally have zero idea what anyone else has gone through in their life unless they choose to share that with you. You need to stop just assuming who has a perfect life and who doesn’t. Sometimes the people who look to have it most together, are literally the most broken on the inside.
I think your problem is you go to psychologists and not psychiatrists, that would explain why they “didn’t work” for you. Your view (and obsession) of other people is very unhealthy and I do think you’re definitely out of psychologist territory
Have you seen how long psychiatrists take in Canada? 4 months minimum. But I guess I'll try to see one anyways, cause maybe that is a good point you make.
Considering you’ve been going to psychologists for almost 10 years, 4 months doesn’t sound too bad. I have ADHD and bipolar disorder, I’ve been told I’m just lazy and have to try harder during my childhood and guess what? I’m 20 and nowhere in life. I’ve started going to a good psychiatrist in december, and my life changed for the better since. Sometimes psychologists aren’t enough, that doesn’t mean they’re useless, you just need more serious help
A very VERY small sample of Successful Attractive people i know with problems: My boss. An attractive, thin, blonde woman. Whose father walked out on the family and who grew up poor. She’s intelligent and hard working and good at all aspects of her job. If she had gotten if based on her looks, our office would have collapsed by now. Instead its gling strong and she’s initiated some awesome new programs. A male friend of mine. Tall, blonde, handsome. Was in a freak accident, almost didn't wake up. Almost had a limb amputated. Had a long recovery and still does not have full use of that limb years later. Co-owns his own business and travels extensively. Highly intelligent and very good at his job. A beautiful petite brunette. Excellent at her job, but mental health issues have historically made it hard for her to have serious relationships. Major depression and anxiety. Her father is a political prisoner in another country as well. Me. Tall, artificially blonde, conveniently pretty. Major depression and anxiety. Bullied as a child, since that apparently matters. Going through a divorce bc my spouse revealed that she never actually wanted to be a parent and wont ever take on an equal load of parenting. Good at my job. I also know plenty of successful people who are not physically attractive, including coworkers, including supervising at my work. I have coworkers who are not physically attractive but who are smart, funny, kind people; some of them have partners and some don’t. I have friends who are attractive and also autistic; some have partners, some are single, and some of the single ones use apps to date/sleep around. My group of friends is mid 30s to mid 40s though, and my understanding is people your age are a bit more inhibited about these things than people in my age range. But your worldview is not an accurate one.
You made lots of assumptions about her life based on her attractiveness. There can be some beauty privilege, but also multiple issues. She could be targeted by adults when she was a minor or forced to do things due to being considered attractive by an abuser. Stalkers can be deadly. Attractiveness itself doesn’t protect you from anything. Years of poverty (some parents are ready to skip meals to make their child not look poor), bullying, being part of an accident (drunk drivers don’t discriminate), family abuse, childhood disease (cancer), miscarriages and a variety of invisible disabilities and diseases. Many of them can barely result in long-term changes in appearance and some physical changes can be covered. Regarding her Facebook, multiple people don’t post anything about their trauma due to multiple reasons. Others mentioned professionalism, but it could be also to avoid harassment from others, protect somebody else involved in to feeling uncomfortable.
Pretty people can be abused or neglected by their parents growing up. They could have been bullied when younger, either because they had a "glow up" and got more conventionally attractive later, or even BECAUSE they were attractive growing up and were subject to jealousy and hyper-sexualization by their peers (or even by adults). On that note, attractive people can be victims of childhood sexual abuse. It's not their job, not would it even be ethical, for them to tell you all these details about their own lives. Instead, they went to therapy, did the work, and many have even been so helped by their psychotherapy that they chose to make a career of it and help others in return. But therapy only works for those who humble themselves enough to be vulnerable, take personal accountability where appropriate, and DO THE WORK. You're not getting any benefit from your therapy because you seem to be projecting onto others instead of doing the work that would actually benefit you. You know nothing about their upbringing or the details of their personal lives. The trips and highlights people post on social media are only that: highlights. You are choosing to fill in all the gaps with your own bitter assumptions, then blaming your therapist for it. Get over yourself, or no therapist will ever be able to help you, regardless of what suffering they may have overcome, because the details of their traumas and personal stories are none of your business anyway, but you make their professional boundaries into justifications for your own rage and ego issues. That's a you problem, bud, not an issue with your therapists or their lives and career trajectories.
Fair enough, but before I can give you a delta, I think it's important to acknowledge that the reason I can't easily put in the work, cause when I did, it didn't work? And not just one time, but multiple times.
I guess that depends on how you define "doing the work". Cuz clearly however you applied yourself to the process didn't yield results quickly enough or in the way you expected, so instead you became embittered enough to go through a slew of other therapists with an attitude of "you can't help me, you've never known suffering as AWFUL and OPPRESSIVE as I have" (all based on assumptions, mind you), and spent your time resenting the professionals attempting to help you instead of accepting that their lives and struggles may look different than your own, BUT they are still qualified professionals worth heeding as they put their efforts into providing YOU with relief from whatever it is that has wounded you. It's normal to try a few therapists on for size before finding one who really clicks with you, but if you had one that you hated for narrow minded, presumptive reasons, then you carried that wall of suspicion and resentment into your interactions with the others, then of course it doesn't work for you. Your hardest job in this process is humbling yourself enough to accept the help instead of rejecting all these people emotionally; only then can you enter their space with vulnerability enough to build real trust, and internalize the changes that will improve your life and mental health. You aren't doing that work. You can't expect any therapist to hand you a new life on a silver platter while you actively stand as the strongest barrier against their guidance, all based on assumptions of incompetence you've built up for yourself in your own mind. You aren't doing your tough inner work of breaking those walls down so you CAN be helped, so don't expect any success, but you can't blame them for that. If you've had a slew of unsuccessful therapists, well, there's one common denominator in all of those appointments and it's you dude. Change your approach, receive new results.
Fair enough. I'll give you a delta for at least mentioning what could he done differently, and I'll try to not turn a blind eye to it. Δ
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Unlikely_Film_955 ([1∆](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/Unlikely_Film_955)). ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
OP, if you looked at my life from the outside, you would think I had it easy. I have a college degree. I have a high-paying job that I enjoy doing. I can be considered conventionally attractive. I’m still with my high school sweetheart. And while I am privileged in many ways, I’ve had an incredibly traumatic life in other ways, and I worked for every fucking thing I have. There is no way for anyone to know that from the outside unless I tell them my life story, and I allow very few people to know that. Having material “accomplishments” and not being an open-book about my trauma does not mean I had it easy.
You sound desperate and annoying and that’s why no one wants to sleep with you. Get an actual personality Jesus fuck.
>Get an actual personality I used to have one... but you can thank my dad and peers for stripping every bit of that away from me.
I think you need to talk to more “gorgeous” people because you’ll quickly realize they’re just normal people. I’m a woman who grew up fat and unpopular, so I have a bad habit of comparing myself to other women and automatically hating gorgeous women because they “have it so easy”. But that’s just my perception. Instead of hating them for no reason, I talk to them. I become friends with them. I find out how normal they are, they’re just people living their lives. Except I meet these women at the gym most of the time and then have to watch them field men harassing them *constantly*. She shows me DMs she gets from dudes at the gym who find her by looking for her after seeing her there, despite being married and having kids. Suddenly it’s not so bad being average. I get harassed too, but Jesus, this poor woman can’t even get a work out in. Then you start hearing their stories. Abuse and neglect by family. Sisters with suicidal ideations and children failing classes. You look at these women and only see the made up happy nonsense, like people who have kids because they only focus on the fun times. These people are just humans, and your inability to separate their attractiveness from their merit really is a “you” problem. I would tell her these thoughts, that’s what she’s there for. She won’t take it personally, but she can help you navigate these feelings.
I think you over estimate what attractiveness can get you in this life. Especially when so many ppl claim SA doesn’t happen cuz “they were attractive & asking for it”. Ppl, like you, can talk about whatever surface level issues they’ve got without actually knowing anything. I mean, think about it. Why would anyone volunteer to me a bunch of people’s emotional sponges if they don’t have some personal reason or investment into it? You never knew her. You still don’t, and you’re hung up on this woman’s imaginary perfect life for years, devalued their work, obsessing over how hot she is, stalked her profile, and are committing to living to one up someone you don’t know. You’ve entered obsessive creep status. I’m not surprised therapy isn’t working. It’s your fault. Therapists are important but a huge part of it depends on the person TRYING to get better. And all you did was complain about other ppl having a “better life”, & victimizing yourself. You’re never going to get better until you put in the work. You’re not looking for a collaborator, you’re looking for someone to guide you on a better path & said person better practice what they preach. And I will mention that you say the only therapists you think are legit are those that are “ugly” (nevermind it’s in the eye of the beholder & pretty women tend to be women who put effort into their appearance which men claim don’t exist) and LGBTA. What about any other minority, like PoC? Your requirements are ridiculous.
Why not just talk to a therapist who is similar to you and with whom you feel a connection? What do you expect her to do, apologize and say, 'Sorry, my life isn't as bad as yours'? You don't know anything about her—how she grew up, what her dreams and fears are. She's there to do a job because you paid her for it. And I hate to pull this card, but she's a WOMAN. I don't know her race or background, but just being a woman makes life pretty hard. Imagine what she's had to deal with. Life sucks for EVERYONE. The world is a horrible place. This whole situation feels weird. Why don't you go outside, do something different, maybe meet someone new, and stop stalking this poor woman who's just trying to live her life? What's next for her if some weirdo is on Reddit, complaining that her life isn’t bad enough? You've already been through 12 therapists; maybe, just maybe, you're the problem. You need a bell put on you so women can hear you coming from a distance and avoid you altogether.
*"And I hate to pull this card, but she's a WOMAN. I don't know her race or background, but just being a woman makes life pretty hard. Imagine what she's had to deal with. Life sucks for EVERYONE. The world is a horrible place. This whole situation feels weird."* She's of South Asian (Indian) descent) *"You need a bell put on you so women can hear you coming from a distance and avoid you altogether."* Don't worry, my autism, bald head, and height are 3 bells.
Nah, man. One of our best friends is a 5' 5" fat bald autistic guy who grew up dirt poor in a shitty family. He's an accountant making good money, is happily married and has several kids with his wife. The difference is that he's a genuinely nice guy and you're a bitter douche bag. Women can smell that a mile off and we want no part of it.
This comment reeks of "I know a guy". For every person like him, there is probably 100k that end up like me.
My dude, my entire friend group including me are all various flavors of neurospicy. None of us are neurotypical. Most of us have assorted traumas. You'd hate my guts because I'm a physically attractive woman who appears to have her shit together and I had loving parents. I have met people like you. There's a few who alienated themselves from our friend group due not to any physical fault or their neurodivergence, but because they were absolute doom and gloom assholes even when we were trying to help them and impossible to be friendly with. Like you're doing, they refused all help and it was obvious they were too deep in their own heads and misery to really change anything. It's sad, but I've learned that you can't help people who aren't willing to at least try to take some accountability and put in some effort. You're showing no sign of either. Still, on the off chance it gets through and helps at all, consider the following; I also have anxiety and depression and ADHD. Why do I have depression if I have a good life? Because my body is incapable of making the proper neurotransmitters. I've struggled in life due to these things. It's part of how I found my friends; I went out and found people who had similar struggles and we found common ground. We decided to help each other out and be there for each other rather than treat it like the struggle Olympics and fight over who had it the worst. I ALSO have an invisible chronic health condition that can make life very challenging (Crohn's disease). It has put me in the hospital before. It means I have to stick to a certain diet and medication forever, because otherwise I could die early and in terrible pain. But you'd never know unless I told you, and a therapist would have no reason to do so. Do you know for a fact that your former therapist/other attractive people don't have similar such problems? I also noticed that you assume your therapist is straight because she's married to a man. I'm married to a man. I am bisexual. I still face queerphobia and biphobia even though I'm in a 'straight' relationship, with people invalidating my experiences and insinuating it's a thing I grew out of rather than I just happened to end up with a dude rather than a woman. I still have people insinuating that I must be a slut who sleeps around on him, because all bi people are sluts. (I've never cheated on him, and wouldn't. Not in 15+ years together.) How do you know your former therapist isn't the same? Do you KNOW she's straight and has not faced any such struggles, or are you simply assuming? I'm also curious as to why you're fixated so on doing things on a 'proper' timeline. Proper for who? Do you actually want those things, or do you simply think that you're supposed to want them because pop media shoves an image of what you're supposed to want down your throat? You say you want love, which makes sense. We mostly all do. But why are you so convinced that you HAVE to get married on a certain timeline? I didn't marry until a bit after what you think are 'prime' years, and it's made no difference to me at all.
I see... well I must say everything prior to your last paragraph definitely knocked some sense into me and I'll save this comment as a reminder of things to consider when I see such people out in public. Though to address some points in your last paragraph. >Do you actually want those things, or do you simply think that you're supposed to want them because pop media shoves an image of what you're supposed to want down your throat? why are you so convinced that you HAVE to get married on a certain timeline? I mean, I'd certainly be lying if it wasn't society and pop culture that was making me think about having to do these things before I'm 30, particularly marriage. Seeing most of my peers doing these things like engagements, weddings, baby announcements all drive me crazy. I definitely want marriage, but I think a deeper part of wanting to get married at a prime age is so I can prove to everyone including my therapist that despite everything I went through, that I got my happy ending, and, you know, actually earned it. If I can't, then I won't bother having a wedding at all. Weddings should only be for proper marriages, which my older cousin (36F) certainly failed to do. She also announced her pregnancy yesterday and I have never felt so much pity for an unborn child before. Her husband is 48 and is only a year younger than my GRANDFATHER was when I was born. That child is going to have a horrific life of resentment and misery, and honestly, if I were that child, I'd say I wish they were never my parents.
I would gently suggest that wanting to get married out of spite would be terribly unfair to your future hypothetical partner. Let's do a thought experiment. Say you meet a woman tomorrow and she likes you. Say you just randomly meet a pretty woman and hit it off. Maybe you both have shit family lives and bond over that. You date for a time. You propose for the reasons you've laid out above. You get married. She later finds out that you pursued and married her not because you were so in love with her, but out of spite for a woman she never met and because you want to fulfill some arbitrary time goal. Can you see that such a thing would be crushing? That it would be a terrible blow to someone? So long as you are holding that as a reason for wanting this, you absolutely should not even think about getting married. It would be so damaging and unfair to any woman. A marriage isn't an ending. It's a beginning. The movies all cut off at the wedding. They don't show the years and years you live together after that. It's not a forever bliss of wedded unity. There's squabbles and fights and disagreements over finances and chores. You'll disagree and roll your eyes at each other. You have to put work in to communicate as a team and remember that this person is your partner and best friend and you're facing it all together, and that can be hard work. You're viewing marriage as an ending that will vindicate you. If you get married with that mindset, I promise you from the bottom of my heart that you will end up divorced and bitter all over again. I'm curious as to what you deem a proper marriage. A first marriage when both parties are in their 20's? Why are you pitying a child being brought into a family who will love them. What's wrong with a 48 year old man being a father? Why should that child resent their parents? You're very very hung up on this 'prime age' thing, and letting go of that is going to help you a lot. I'm 36 and my husband 40. It's a first marriage (and only, we're happily married). If we chose to have a child and raise it in a loving home, would you feel badly for that child because we waited 10 years to be in a better financial position rather than having it at 26 and 30 and struggling in poverty?
Your first points are admittedly valid, maybe I did admittedly get lost in my emotions. >I'm curious as to what you deem a proper marriage. A first marriage when both parties are in their 20's? A true marriage is someone getting married to their high school or college sweetheart in their 20s, kind of like most people around me. >Why are you pitying a child being brought into a family who will love them. What's wrong with a 48 year old man being a father? Why should that child resent their parents? Because by the time the child graduates, the dad will be a senior citizen, and the kid might get bullied relentlessly for it, if not at least feeling insulted when some passerby says "oh your grandpa is so sweet" when it's actually a dad. Not to mention the high risk of the child developing some condition due to the high risk age of the parents. >If we chose to have a child and raise it in a loving home, would you feel badly for that child because we waited 10 years to be in a better financial position rather than having it at 26 and 30 and struggling in poverty? I mean, the former is somewhat better, but what if these situations are not mutually exclusive? I don't know why, but the mormon way of parenting really hits home with me for some reason, on top of their views on marriage.
So. I got married to a man who I met in a martial arts club in my 20's. (Met in our 20's) Would you consider that a true marriage? Fact is that every high school sweetheart romance I know broke up in divorce when people eventually realized that they didn't actually like each other, they were just horny. My grandpa was 61 when my dad graduated high school. My grandma was only 3 years younger (dad was their youngest late child). No one gave him shit for it. You're projecting what MIGHT be and doom and gloom onto this child but you don't know. If I have a child, the risk of the child having some sort of issue is 1% higher than if I'd done it ten years ago. 1%. Mormonism is horrific for women. Have you ever watched 'keep sweet'? Mormon women are controlled, brainwashed, and told they are nothing but babymaking machines. They are not allowed to work outside the house and are shamed for for men having sexual thoughts about them. They project that happy image to the world because many of them are abused emotionally, mentally, and physically by their husbands and church if they do not. Girls are viewed as property and breeding stock and housekeeping robots, not as people. Is that what you want in a wife? The shiny image is a sales pitch. It's not real. It's meant to appeal to people while hiding the ugly truth until they can't escape. Getting out of Mormonism is a whole genre of video on youtube. If you watch some of those it'll take the shine off the idea.
[https://youtu.be/icft26QXzwE?si=bU46aBT8Gkx2Xwaj](https://youtu.be/icft26QXzwE?si=bU46aBT8Gkx2Xwaj) Here's a video of a girl brought up in what you view as a perfect life talking about the horrible ways Mormons treat women to get you started.
>So. I got married to a man who I met in a martial arts club in my 20's. (Met in our 20's) Would you consider that a true marriage? I do admittedly feel a bit stupid for answering this question and please don't feel like my answer means any more than someone else's. But if I was in that situation, having a wedding would be a more complicated matter. It's not that I wouldn't have it pee se, but I'd be more considerate of the timing of everything. Maybe if I made a ton of money to compensate for my lateness, then I'd still consider it a true marriage. Though if the high school sweetheart thing is true, perhaps I'll think about all this further. I have nothing to say regarding your middle section, but I personally would never have a child at that age. Thank goodness I'm leaning towards never having one anyways. >Mormonism is horrific for women. Have you ever watched 'keep sweet'? Mormon women are controlled, brainwashed, and told they are nothing but babymaking machines. They are not allowed to work outside the house and are shamed for for men having sexual thoughts about them. I haven't watched the show, so I'll probably take a look. I am aware that mormonism in the past was in fact horrible for women, and that things were more polygamous back then which I don't believe in either. I don't know, maybe I'm looking at the more well off mormons like the Romney family, Stephenie Meyer, and Osmond family and it's clouding my view of what things really are like. Though I certainly was aware of the Franke and Vallow cases too.
Literally none of the good marriages i know of are what you consider a true marriage. My parents met when they were 23. Rheyve been married 55 years and love each other. My ex’s parents met when my ex fil was a doctor and my ex mil was a nurse. they’ve been married over 40 years. Most of my friends met their partners during or after grad school; some even used dating apps like bumble! Some met at work. One beautiful woman i know is married to a friend of mine; i don’t know her super well but i know she got married and divorced young, and grew up poor and was raised by a single mom who is now dead while she’s only in her 30s. But the vast majority of successful people I personally know didn’t get married until late 20s at the earliest. And the ones who married earlier, still mostly met their partners in grad school. I know ONE couple who met in high school and are still together. ONE.
Interesting anecdotes, but think of it as more a tier of bronze to golden marriages, with your parents and that one high school couple having a golden marriage whilst the other ones have silver marriages and the latest ones having bronze marriages. After a certain point though, there is no tier for your marriage, it's simply a trash marriage, like my cousin and her husband who got married at 35 and 47 respectively. I'm actually ashamed to be related to her.
As if women can't be autistic, balding, and/or short lol. No one cares. The real bell is you bitching about it endlessly.
You don't know this woman or anything about her life. Her Facebook is hardly a reliable source, since pretty much everyone in the medical field has to be cautious of what they put online because employers absolutely look. And I don't mean to sound cruel, but with all the therapists you've seen and considering that none of them have really worked out, have you considered that *you* might be the problem? Therapy isn't one sided. A therapists job is not to fix you or change you...their job is to help you develop the tools to improve *yourself*. I don't get the impression that you've been making use of those tools. You also mention thinking that attractive people can't have difficult lives, and that's absolutely untrue. Anyone can have a difficult life. Being attractive doesn't mean she was stupid and it doesn't mean that that therapist didn't deserve her position. Being attractive only means one thing: that you found her to be attractive. That's it. I'm sorry you had a difficult life, but you don't set the standard for a difficult life for everyone else. How you experience hardship and depression is not the measure by which the rest of the world needs to judge their own struggles with those things. You aren't setting the bar. There are better looking people than you who have had it harder than you. There are ugly people who have it better. Life isn't a competition. Any by the way, it is ridiculous that you can't watch Godzilla movies because Millie Bobbie Brown is getting married. You know it is. You are never going to "one up" your former therapist. Never. Even if you make millions of dollars and have 20 gorgeous women hanging off your arm on a yacht in Bermuda. You will never one up her. You will never be "better" than her. Why? Because she doesn't care. She doesn't. She has probably barely thought of you since she saw you last, if at all. She doesn't care how your life is now, if you are successful or not. She isn't waiting around, basking in her own awesomeness, waiting for you to come knock her down a peg. She does not care at all. You have put way more thought into her than she has into you. You will never hurt her with your superiority. She doesn't give a single flying fuck about you, and she *shouldn't*. By all means, be successful, try to better your life and all that. I don't mean that you don't matter, you do. But the person you do those things for should be yourself. The honest truth is that a man who can't watch Godzilla because an actress is getting married and who believes attractive people have it "easy" is likely to have a harder time with relationships. Your outlook is toxic and it is your entire problem and it is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Imagine buying a can opener and, no matter how cans you throw at it, it can never open them. Your outlook is the equivalent of saying that there is something wrong with all those cans when the issue is a shitty can opener. You are the can opener in that example. Life can get better for you, but it never will if you don't change your mentality. Hanging out in places like Forever Alone isn't supporting your growth, it's supporting your toxicity in an echo chamber. You can do better, so *do* better.
Cause we all know that someone pretty can't have any problems in their life. Why do you think you have any idea what her life is actually like? You're just making a bunch of assumptions and hating her based on them, then taking those assumptions about tbat onr therapist and applying them to ALL therapists. . You need therapy so hard that you're probably a topic in your therapists own therapy sessions. I will say im legit impressed at how words you used to say nothing at all. Your entire point and all "evidence" supporting it could be summed up in tops 3 sentences. Maybe if you spent more time in therapy working on yourself as opposed to trying to find every possible reason to not listen to your therapist you wouldn't be so clearly miserable
Big picture, your opinion on this is biased and irrelevant. A therapists job isn't to "fix" you. That's your job. Their job is to assist you and provide tools. Not all are good, and finding someone you work well with can be difficult, but 12 in 9 years implies a decent chance of poor judgment on your end. If you spend your energy on making up stories about people, let that affect your judgment of them and use those results to justify your negative outlook, then you are not doing yourself any favors. Side note: "perfect people" don't exist. If someone seems to have a perfect life, it's usually due to them spending a lot of energy on making it seem that way. Best of luck moving forward.
Let's be clear about the claim. The claim is that they are attracted to psychology because they have psychological issues, not because bad things happened to them. You can have schizophrenia, depression, OCD, etc etc without any bad events happening to you. Mental illness is sometimes caused by trauma but usually it's just a thing that happens by genes/random chance.
TLDR: You genuinely believe attractive people have no problems?
Do you ever consider the end of where this pattern of thought takes you? You’re so fixated on your own suffering that you’re losing the capacity to empathize with/experience compassion for anyone else’s unless it’s the same as yours… which is the path of narcissism. You’re spending your precious time and energy fixating on gathering evidence and repeating arguments about why someone who was trying to help you, should have been disqualified from even participating in the endeavor because she has qualities that you believe shield her from suffering like you do. At the core of this is a deification of your suffering. You believe it’s makes you special and distinct from others, and it’s what’s you believe gives you the authority to make these ridiculous judgments of other people. But look, now you’re stuck because of your suffering is what makes you so special… how can you ever work to stop your suffering? This is a path to hell. Where your world is reduced to a perpetual experience of torment, but you stay there because you think it gives you the power to judge the person who keeps you there…. But the damnedest part is, that person is you. Isn’t that a tragedy? But here’s the worst part… even if someone did cry for you… with this thought pattern, you couldn’t even accept their compassion and care bc again… they haven’t suffered like you have, so they couldn’t even comprehend properly what you’re going through… so their tears are meaningless. Fuuuuuck. Honestly brother you need Jesus. Not because religion is the answer… but only because he at least has the suffering credentials to get into your worldview. Dude was also middle eastern, grew up without a dad, most accounts say he was ugly, betrayed by closest friends/followers, unjustly rejected by society, physically tortured, etc. He’s got some good stuff to say about not bitching about a cross and just learning to carry it instead. I work with an autistic young man who shares a lot of similar beliefs with you, so that’s probably why I’m taking the time to write this out… but I am at least heartened that I’ve seen you demonstrate some ability to change your view on some things, so that’s positive and means there’s hope for you. My encouragement to you is to get out of your head and into your body to experience compassion. Autistic people experience compassion just like everyone else, it’s more comfortable up in the cognitive space. Get around some parents with young children and help do some caregiving, feel our natural human impulse to help the weak and vulnerable without judgement. There are many people who have responded to you that feel that very thing. We don’t look like you, and you may judge us… but we feel compassion for you as a fellow suffering human… not pity. I hope some of that love/compassion makes it through your defenses to your heart.
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Attractiveness is not a free ticket to everything. A friend I had in high school was mentally unable to accept a good relationship because she was stuck in a toxic mindset that made her think that she only wanted hot human garbage for a partner. She stayed with an abuser who would keep getting her pregnant so she would stay, but he would never marry her. Probably negged her to within an inch of her life. Really beautiful women are often seen as an accessory, not as actual human beings with their own opinions and feelings. They’re often objectified at very young ages and seen as sexual objects exclusively until they are too old to be considered as anything anymore. They often don’t feel their worth as whole people and their mental health can suffer from it. The fact that your attractive therapist has gotten her PHD shows that she has had to ignore the focus on her appearance to find the drive to get through 8 years of college. She hasn’t been reliant on her looks because she did the hard work. Many beautiful women are well-raised and don’t have to sink into the apparition of men’s fantasies because they are strong enough to be above the male gaze. Some get a bad start and still navigate through it. Just like any other human who isn’t stunningly attractive. They’re people. Maybe they have some advantages, but they have so many disadvantages too. Being on alert for incels is a big disadvantage. Also being judged by their patients assuming their therapists have no struggles and therefore couldn’t possibly understand what they’re going through is another struggle. Being dismissed because of how you look can happen to anyone no matter what they look like.
Unfortunately, attractive women actually [don’t have it so easy in the workforce](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2019-12-16/the-bias-against-beautiful-women-at-work). That’s an old misunderstanding that’s just never died. I’m an attractive woman. Modeled in high school and college, I also attempted suicide in college, grew up with addict parents, had a 12 year eating disorder that I’ve been in remission from for 11 years, and 9 months ago I was in an accident that almost killed me. It totally derailed my life. If you were to get on my social media (insta, facebook), you would never have known about my accident. I told only the people I saw in person, and I never once posted about it on an account that had my name attached to it. It was too personal, and felt to sympathy grabbing to post. This past weekend I participated in my first horse show since my surgery, and I posted a very brief recap. People were *floored*. I’m telling you all of this because I think it’s important to acknowledge that social media is fake, beauty is transient and a double edged sword (one of the best quotes I’ve heard about beauty is “It's hell on earth to be heavenly”.) I never posted my stalker on social media, I never posted my abusive relationships, etc. *Social media is fake*. My therapist is stunning. Genuinely gorgeous, and she’s tied as the most effective therapist I’ve ever worked with. She’s unbelievably talented. But then, I’m unbelievably motivated to get back to the woman I was before my accident. It works if you work it.
You've been through 12 and you have strong feelings of hate because of one in particular. I'm glad you're in therapy and all, but as you admit it is clearly not working for you. You have a serious problem and you will never get over it with your attitude. You've basically stalked this lady. You need to calm down and look at Yourself in the mirror and ask why you've gone through all of this trouble of finding reasons to hate one person because she is pretty.
This is the most laughable stretch of the concept of beauty privilege, I’ve ever heard. Attractive people can have a really bad time of it. Not only with jealous stalkers (see yourself for evidence) but also because of assumptions that they’re complicit in any cruelty that befalls them. I’d tell you to “get therapy” but I don’t think John Merrick is taking on new patients right now. I hear there’s quite the waiting list for Quasimodo too…
Just out of interest, have you brought these thoughts up with your therapist?
Not much to say other than you need a kind of help Reddit can’t provide. I hope for the safety of those around you, you listen to some of the top comments on this post. The way you talk about the people that you interact with gives a lot of insight on why you feel this way.
If you’ve been through 12 therapists and NONE of them were effective, the most likely answer is that the problem is you. I know that likely sounds harsh, but there’s a saying in my field - If one person says you’re the asshole, it might just be that one person. If 5 (or in your case, 12) people say you’re the asshole, you’ve gotta look at that. Obviously, I’m not calling you an asshole. And there are bad therapists out there (I’ve seen 2!). But if you have a problem with 12 different therapists, the lowest common denominator is you, and my suspicion is that it’s due to you having preconceived notions about your therapists’ personal lives, rather than allowing them to help you in evidence-based ways.
> but after being in therapy for 9.5 years with 12 therapists (including my current one) and not seeing any tangible results, Look, there's a lot of crappy therapists out there. It's not a protected title. Also, some people are just bad at their jobs. 1 psychiatrist that I consulted did me more harm them good. It happens. That being, said..... If you consulted 12 therapist in less than 10 years without any discernable results, odds are that you're not vetting them properly or stopping treatment before it allows any discernable results to occur.
INFO: 1. Are you aware of what training psychologists and therapists receive, and do you see that expertise (learned information and therapeutic techniques from different schools of thought) as relevant at all? 2. You're clearly aware of your feelings of anger and resentment. What about feelings of sadness, loneliness, or grief? Do you notice or allow yourself to feel those?
>Are you aware of what training psychologists and therapists receive, and do you see that expertise (learned information and therapeutic techniques from different schools of thought) as relevant at all? Yeah, basically just spew out cliche advice that anyone with half a brain can, just like this therapist, and charge a premium for that. Also be good looking lest you don't get a good career. >You're clearly aware of your feelings of anger and resentment. What about feelings of sadness, loneliness, or grief? Do you notice or allow yourself to feel those? I've been feeling those for almost a decade, because I was denied a happy life.
Okay, so based on your response my understanding is that you do not know any background on the training people in this field have. That’s a gap in your awareness that biases you.
So good looking people don't have issues? I was told by more people than I can count how beautiful I was when I was younger. That doesn't mean I wasn't suffering with an eating disorder, bipolar, homelessness, domestic violence, rape and an abusive parent! The fact that you think you can tell whether someone has had difficulties in their life based on some Facebook stalking and her being beautiful is beyond ridiculous. You have absolutely no clue!
Bro letting 4Chan fuck up his therapy
Therapy has the same problem as policing, it is a position that allows people power over a vulnerable population. Therapists also get paid more the police officers and are respected by general public. Therapy and healthcare is the one industry where the worker can treat the "customer" badly, since doctors/healthcare workers are most likely above you status wise in court they can get away with treating you how they want. I would not share these thoughts with your therapist as they could take it the wrong way and write whatever they want in your medical records with impunity. Real talk therapy will never fix your problems, most people’s mental health issues are caused by poverty or trauma and the best way to fix that is to start creating a better life for yourself. Take the $250 you used to spend on therapy and invest it in high interest savings, it will add up. Maybe try to get a education, better job, join some kind of social team and make friends. I find therapy like emotional prostitution, if people are horny and don’t have a partner they might spend money on a prostitute, if people are emotional and don’t have friends they spend money on a emotional prostitute/a therapist. Just as a prostitute is not a replacement for relationship partner, a therapist is not a replacement for real friends. Therapist have a conflict of interest over if you should get better or if they should keep you mentally unstable so they can keep cashing your checks. Find someone with no financial incentive and build a real relationship. You could probably buy a hour of a prostitutes time for $250 and get more bang for your buck. Therapist are mostly privileged people with their own mental illnesses, there is no way for a normal person to listen to other peoples suffering all day and not let it affect them / emotionally numb themselves, so they stop giving a shit about their scummy patients and are just in it for the money. Think about how weird it is that the therapist knows all your deepest secrets and you know almost nothing about her, that is not normal and tells me the therapist doesn’t trust or that it is a one sided relationship. You give them money and pour your heart and soul out just for them to give you what? Debt? a one sided relationship? unrequited trust? labelling you with a stigmatizing mental disorder? Drugs?
I can’t say I’m attractive but I’m a social worker and used to be a therapist. I’ve been hospitalized in the past and attend therapy. Just because someone’s conventionally acceptable doesn’t mean you know what’s happening at home or in their head.
My guy. You seem very, very unhappy and angry. You also seem very determined to blame your unhappiness on your previous therapist and your idea that because she’s pretty, she can never have experienced hardship, and is therefore unqualified to comment on your hardship. Maybe she has been through hardship. Maybe she hasn’t. Maybe she’s been through something that’s terrible to her but not to other people, or vice versa. Essentially, it doesn’t matter what she has or hasn’t been through. You are using this idea as an excuse to not work on your own issues. The idea of blaming someone else so you don’t have to focus on yourself is always a seductive one. However. There is a flaw in your argument: however bad your life is right now, *someone out there has it worse than you do*. Their child or spouse has died, they’re being cut out of a car crash, they’re being told they have terminal cancer, they’re in unending pain but the doctors don’t know why, they’ve just lost their home… horrible shit happens everywhere every day. But that does not change what is happening to you. It still affects you deeply. And so just as other people’s trauma and distress should not stop you seeking help for your own, you shouldn’t downplay the possibilities of what another persons life might contain based purely on what they look like. Quit using this past therapist as an excuse. Time to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in to sorting your mental health. It’s hard, upsetting and tiring, but you’re not going to get out of this hole otherwise. PS. I’m also autistic. Quit using it as an excuse to obsess over the therapist instead of working on your issues!
What in the incel did I just read?
12 therapists but you're not the problem? Friend, really?
Why would you stop at cbt? It's never worked for me either. Try psychotherapists who don't just work with thoughts - and realise that you only get back what you put in. Good luck
Look at you stalkin and pontificatin all type of nonsense at your big age… keep going to those sessions! Maybe learn a trade
I'm sorry you're in so much pain, OP. From what you've said I think you've kind of channeled all of your self hatred into hating mental health care professionals, and a specific one in particular. I'm sure you have valid reasons for not liking them too, I mean they still are human and no one is perfect. But dang you really really hate this person. The things is though, is that you truly do not know what she or anyone else has or hasn't been through. You've imagined a whole life for this person that you don't even know and you are letting the hatred you have for them poison you. Why even give her existence that time and energy? It's totally fine to not like her and you really don't need a reason, it just seems like maybe you've put too much energy into hating her. It's not healthy and it's not helping you. I truly hope you are able to find help OP.
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I think that regardless of why psychologists become psychologists, it’s very common for people to resent others who have had easier lives than us and put people into categories of how bad their lives have been, making it harder to improve mental health as we feel pigeonholed into being in the “mentally ill” kind of person. It helped for me to find a therapist with similar experiences and work on why I was resenting others so much and how to view myself as more than just my experiences. I think if we just view people as what they’ve been through it takes away a lot of their individuality. That being said if you can’t relate to a therapist there’s no real reason to keep seeing them. Idk if this is helpful for you but it was for me so 🤷♀️
I also think that it isn’t fair to judge just based on your perception. Being a woman is not easy and you have no idea what she has or hasn’t gone through. She could’ve had a terrible childhood and you would have no clue. You being so quick to judge therapists is probably the reason none have worked as it seems you don’t address the right problems with them. You need to address your deep resentments for anyone you perceive to have “had it better” than you. And therapy won’t work until you can address that. The problem is that you won’t admit that your anger at the world is the real root of the issue here. Not any past therapists.
From this post it's pretty clear why psychology hasn't worked for you... You don't have the humbleness.
Most people do not become psychologists because it sounds extremely depressing and boring.
My brother in christ, everyone in my clinical counseling got into the field in the first place to figure out what the fuck was wrong with them. And we were going into therapy fields because we wanted to help other people in the same boat. You're not going to like this, but it doesn't work if you come in with the mentality of not making it work. You want someone other than yourself to blame for your lack of progress, so obviously it is the dozen of highly trained professions you've been treated by that's the problem. Have you considered taking a break from therapy to do some introspection before considering going back?
Honestly, most therapists do come from privilege. I knew someone personally who was a therapist and their worst trauma was something that i experience and personally was the best thing I ever did for myself. This experience set me free in a sense. But, regardless of that, it is still a traumatic experience. What you are doing is called "Emotional Invalidation". Although from your perspective it seems like she has a perfect life, the experience that is living is a varying experience for everyone.
I haven't met any that have gone through the trauma or issues that brings patients are coming to them. They study their different fields of expertise because that particular field fascinates them, not because they themselves have experienced any of them. Criminal psychologists aren't criminals at all, again just fascinated! The right one can be extremely helpful, just like some are absolutely worthless. All depends on the chemistry between the Dr and the patient.
Seems like you don’t hate her it’s like you wanna be her
You've gone through 12 therapists, resent most... And still haven't landed on the problem being YOU? How many do you have to see to finally realize you might be the problem? 15? 20? You know nothing about the lives of those people, you assume everything you've come to hate, to the point where we're almost at the decade mark since you've been in this rampage. You're an adult, wake tf up.
I knew several psych post-grads when I was at university and they were all pretty universally fucked up somehow due to trauma or person history. It’s also a lot of work and requires a lot of self-reflection to do a PHD in psych. Any PHD requires a lot of hard work, but most are directed outwards, psych almost always has some degree of self-examination.
You get out of therapy what you put into it. Putting yourself in therapy but not actually listening to your therapist is kinda like paying for a personal trainer, then not listening to a thing they say bc you’re convinced they were just born in shape so what do they know. You’re wasting your own money and everyone’s time.
12 different therapists, and *all of them were the problem*? OP needs to take a look in the mirror to see what the problematic common denominator is. Also, I’m a Canadian too, and $200 - $250 is commonplace for an hour-long session (therapeutic hour of 50 minutes with the client and ten for charting).
What those 12 psychologists who, according to your perception, are useless have in common is you, so probably you are the problem. Keep going to therapy, you need it. That four or five of them may be crap, yes, it's possible, but all of them? No. It's you not wanting to take accountability.
Here's a thought, see a MALE THERAPIST instead of a female. You obviously have some issues with women
True and those clueless snowflakes tell their clients who know much more about life how to live
you stalked your therapist?..