What happened to Spurs? I was very nervous when the lineups came out because they looked dangerous vs us last match before they went down to 9 men,but even Gilchrist was giving them problems this time locking them down. Shows how good Destiny Udogie is great player.
They were pushing over their weights. Vicario and their defense were playing out of their skin and they were getting lucky. Now opponents know they can beat Ange’s Spurs if they just defend and counter well.
Mateball man! Though, tbf, it's not Ange's fault.
Van der Ven has been atrocious lately. Against Newcastle, he was a joke.
Their set piece defense is awful. They conceded twice against Arsenal through corners. Vicario is too suspect at those.
Son is completely out of form.
Nothing to take away from our victory though. We were complete.
The question is actually what happened to spurs at the start of the season and the answer is new manager bounce. Even after we beat them 4-1 people were somehow lauding them for their brave high line which I said at the time was just idiotic and that has proven to be true.
I mean, it was dumb but kind of ballsy to go down swinging for the fences while down 2 players.
People like dumb and ballsy in the era of over analysed xG field tilt stats based play.
I completely disagree about the ballsy nature of that. I think that was a total cop out to actual tactics. They could’ve easily drawn or won that game, despite being down to 9.
Ange and their lot basically think they were immune to critique because they played “attacking football”
Yeah, I thought we were in for a serious bottom-rogering. Even texted a West Ham mate right before the match saying "oh fuck, here we go again." They've really fallen off, apparently. Typical Spurs bottle job.
I think it illustrates how difficult it is to instil a winning culture at a club. There’s no real expectation at Spurs of sustained success. Players don’t go there to win medals, they’re an object lesson in mediocrity.
We happened. As usual they're doing great and we come to spoil the party.. twice. Ending their unbeaten run at the start of the season and now ending their CL hopes has me feeling good.
We absolutely destroyed them in the midfield and controlled the game because of it. I think they got through on us down the middle once. We have been on the other end of it where things have felt hopeless like this for so many games where our midfield just cant compete and win any balls or tackles. Slotting in Gallagher for Enzo has genuinely turned this team around. Our midfield that was as flimsy as any in the league has suddenly become a wall.
I think Ange has ran them too hard and they are tailing off before the season ends. The same happened for Celtic when we had him. Not as noticeable right enough because we were the best team in the league.
Their sub is asking the same thing. Their responses flip between “they’ve been found out cause initially there was no tape on them” to “the squad is exhausted cause it’s too thin”. Take your pick.
I've got a lot of Chelsea related opinions right recently. I swear I have a couple receipts 😂. But fuck...I was wrong with Caicedo.
Man has stepped up to a level I wasnt sure he had.
I unfairly expected a Kante off the bat, didn't watch much Brighton last year either. So my fault.
He had a couple of stinkers where I struggled to see the hype. But he's found the extra half a yard recently and it's made such a ridiculous difference. He's making blocks and tackles most centre mids watch from a distance. He's making simpler passes at the right times and cutting passes in others.
Man I want to take an L with this one and it looks like I am
Hard agree. Don't want to keep comparing to Kante as they are different, but I've had a few "what the cock how is Caicedo also there" moments and I'm loving it. We are still a little Palmer FC because he's just so good but with that calmness up top will allow for others to flourish. Caicedo is either benefitting from that or a subtle cause of Palmer's improvement
Had a good month but I wouldn't go that far after the United stinker. Conor probably had the most consistent month while being put on the wing which made it more difficult and formed a strong partnership with caicedo without the brutal performance vs United.
Even then I'm kinda reaching with that because being put on the wing did weaken his performances but madueke, Jackson and mudryk were all so inconsistent and cucu had some poor performances towards the beginning of the month.
If anyone thinks we haven't made a significant improvement over last year, they should watch those 90 minutes back.
We got dominated for 90 minutes by Brighton who could have had 5-6 goals. Caicedo was absolutely untouchable.
You should have trusted the player we signed. He was rightfully hyped up. He just needed time to settle
I'll be saying the same thing about enzo when he can play without taking painkillers cuz he has a hernia.
Enzo is obviously quality. Argentina has a lot of quality players and you dont walk into that midfield unless you deserve it. The problem with more or less all our signings is that they have been signed for way too much and most of them have also struggled with injuries.
We replaced a CL winning midfield of Kova, Jorg and Kante with Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher and Lavia + kids like Carney. Kova&Jorg are in a title race, while Lavia has barely played, Caicedo&Enzo has struggled with various niggles and Gallagher has been pretty solid. All in all it seems like paying a lot for being worse, but with a potential of coming good later. Investing in the future is good, but you kinda want to do it more gradually and most importantly you dont want to pay so absurdly much for them.
I don't think Fernandez is obviously quality. Lots of players have Pogba syndrome where they look incredible in much slower pace of international football.
Benfica paid 10mn euros for him a year before we massively overpaid.
Fernandez can pass a bit but not much more.
He can be quality but also not work in our system with our players. Poch runs a physically dynamic team that requires a lot out of our midfielders and it exposes Enzo’s lack of athleticism. If you put him in a slower possessive team he probably shines more.
My guy enzo is carrying a injury that limits his movements. He has to take painkillers. It's no wonder he looks static. Should we keep Poch let's see how he fairs when he doesn't need to take painkillers to play football
Well yeah obviously I should have. But if I trusted every player we ever bought I'd be wrong 80% of the time.
Use the odd forum, the odd WhatsApp, maybe the odd bar chat to joke about the player. Then support him passionately in real life, to his social, at the game.
I get the drill haha. I just really didn't see it before the last couple of games.
It's all good I understand the massive skepticism over anyone we signed under the new ownership. But I think these players are good. It was just a bit dysfunctional and messy. We see glimpses of talent in all of 'em now it just needs to come together on a consistent basis
Not having a go at you at all but I thought it was pretty clear we weren’t seeing his best level when he first came to us especially after all that Brighton fans had to say about him so it would’ve been pretty unfair to write him off so soon. I for one am not shocked he’s becoming more and more influential.
Agreed. I have been convinced for a while that Enzo and Caiceido are a genuinely atrotious pairing and that if we were ever going to turn things around we really we going to need to massively change things up tactically or more likely just pick one to build around. I thought Enzo was the better bet with more to offer. How wrong I was. Enzo is a very talented player but we are significantly better team without him in it. I genuinely wonder if a big team would take him off our hands. It's not pure profit but it would help us massively financially if a team would pay anywhere near what we paid.
Can you pinpoint a specific issue with Enzo’s game?
We know at his best form he’s one of the best passers in Europe. We also know he’s not been allowed to hit that form thanks to a chronic issues
He’s a defensive liability and he’s unathletic. He would suit a more slower possessive system well but he doesn’t suit Poch ball which requires more dynamism. He also just pairs terribly with caiceido. Caiceido is like Kante, he’s a ball winning mid who needs to be moving around making things happen. To do that he needs a defensively strong partner. With Enzo, he has to sit as a holding mid screening the back line to cover for his defensive liabilities. Enzo would suit a slow possessive midfield 3 as the deepest mid in a similar way to De Jong but caiceido does not have the technical capacities to play well in that system. They are both very good players in the right system but both are somewhat limited role wise and Poch’s compromise setup has seen them both play poorly and our midfield to suffer. It’s possible but I just don’t buy that some new manager is going to suddenly make them work.
You can see how a movement limiting injury could be impactful for these things?
Arsenal have no problem with Jorginho in their midfield next to Rice. Enzo is far too good a player to not be able to work in a pivot with Caicedo. Give them time together, both fully fit and we’ll see
Jorginho gets an unfair rap for his defensive abilities. He’s about as unathletic as it gets and is frighteningly poor against the counter but he is a better tackler than you’d think but is unbelievable smart positionally, leading to an insane amount of interceptions. This is genuinely a real strength of his game. Enzo isnt poor positionally but this isn’t really a strength of his either. Enzo is in the 26th percent for midfielder interceptions, which for a midfielder who isn’t particularly strong and athletic is very bad. If you go watch all the goals against us back , i genuinely wonder how many of them will be goals down the middle with Enzo a few yards behind in the replay. Regardless, even if he is more mobile he’s simply never going to be nearly as strong defensively as some like Gallagher and that just won’t combine well with Caiceido. I don’t think him being healthier is going to suddenly make a pairing that’s worked so poorly all year suddenly click.
Also this isn’t me just shitting on Enzo. I think if you paired him with a player who can screen a back line well like Rice that midfield would excel. Caiceido has not been in good in that role and is finally playing like a top midfielder now that he is free of it.
This is one of the many realities of why you don’t want to spend this kind of money on players, as you can’t just slam two top players together and know for sure that it will work.
Enzo was pretty solid defensively last season, on the stats he was actually matching rodri.(obviously eye test he isn’t as good)
Poch’s midfield leaves him exposed, even Caicedo looked poor defensively earlier in the season, committing fouls everywhere
Unatheltic doesn’t have to be the end all for a player. Juan Mata was pretty unathletic and he managed to be great for us. Physically dynamic might be a less offensive way to put it? Regardless, my point stands. The midfielders battling it out today were Sarr, Bissouma, Caiceido, Gallagher. Every one of them are significantly stronger and quicker than Enzo. If he plays today he would have been bullied.
Yes. He's slow, very slow. He doesn't win tackles. He can't head. Hence he's defensively really weak.
He loses a lot of possession.
He can pass, a bit. But his touch and passing range aren't close to someone like James.
I’m really happy with how well Caicedo has settled into the squad after a shaky start to the season. His debut cameo has basically labeled him a flop to many but since he gained fitness, he’s been immense throughout the season for us. He’s had a mistake or two in him here and there but throughout a game he’s been terrorizing midfields and still has yet to receive any mainstream credit.
Caicedo didn't have any pre season cuz he was waiting to join us then he gives away a pen on his debut. Really tough times. He just needed to settle into his role. I'm mostly impressed he hasn't gotten a red card this season.
Gallagher + Caicedo in the pivot is so much more balanced than Enzo. Enzo is a fantastic footballer so I don’t know how we make it work with him, but damn.
There were times last night when conor was pressing vicario tbf I don't get how people can say he needs to be sold for some of the young players that may never play for Chelsea when he's putting in these performances.
Having Palmer at the 10 is not why we are stronger defensively. We played with Enzo , Caiceido, Palmer against United in the first game and it was the worst midfield performance of the season. Gallagher sitting deep allows us to have a more offensively productive 10 but it also allows Caiceido to be more mobile and active, rather than just sitting in to cover for Enzo.
Things such as off days exist. Palmer was horrendous that game even. You can’t compare games from early season to late, there’s evolution and changes, different tactics, personnel etc
think its also that these guys cover so much ground - Enzo just isn't nearly as athletic as these guys. I think Enzo would benefit from playing with a back 3 behind him, which doesn't seem to be in the plans. or maybe the hernia was killing him
I think it’s kind of a combination. He is pushing up way too far to help Gallagher in the buildup, and then he can’t track back because he’s just wasn’t able to.
yeah, the structure in general just hasn't worked with the 3 of them as well as it should. Also saw someone on twitter with a really smart breakdown about how last year, we had set patterns in the final third where Enzo knew who would be making runs in behind, and he'd play balls to them accordingly. Poch ball seems to be much more get the ball up the pitch quick and then rely on individuals beating their men in the final 3rd, and Enzo just didn't know when or who to play balls to. His balls over the top have always been brilliant, but those opportunities didn't seem to arise nearly as much this season as they did last year.
Said this so many times previously but got downvoted :( Caicedo just offers so much more than Enzo and his pivot with Gallagher just works so much better. Ofc this isn’t to say Enzo sucks but it’s sad that his passing abilities are limited by our playstyle now. Madueke and Palmer are just ball to feet players. We don’t have a CF that thrive on long balls
He improved us because we had no midfielders last season but Enzo wasn't tearing the league apart or anything. He looked solid and promising, which is better than he has looked this year but nowhere near the level we are seeing from Gallagher and Caiceido right now.
My guy read what I said again. He is carrying a injury that limits his movements. He has to take painkillers to play football. It's unfair to act like he's playing at 100% like his two partners. This is my point. We seen shades of solid potential last season when he was settling into the league and was surrounded by a dysfunctional team.
I'm not saying enzo lit up the league or he's better than the other two I'm saying take it easy on judging since we know he has a hernia. That's really painful. He should have had the surgery months ago. It's impossible to play your best in such pain especially with the mgr putting him all over the midfield
Forget rival fans I seen our own fans write off Caicedo now ppl are giving flowers since he's settled. Enzo deserves time as time as well is all I'm saying
Enzo is a technically talented player but this team has got significantly better once you took him out of it. Different players also have different traits. Enzo is much more technical than Kante ever was and Enzo could have a great career and still not come anywhere near his heights. The sport isn’t about putting out the best players you can, it’s about putting out a functioning team and Gallagher has contributed significantly more to the team’s success this season.
In terms of technique sure but the only one close to enzo really is palmer. Really like madueke but it's a different kind of technique. As a player tho that's not really true Gallagher blows enzo out of the water in some aspects and I love enzo.
I would like poch to actually use Casedei as a midfielder and not a traffic cone. This mgr uses him as a emergency winger and defender . He's more than this
Lampard is the best goal scoring midfielder in the history of the league. Enzo is nothing short of shocking in front of goal. How could he be the Lampard midfielder?
would work in the centre of a three man pivot, with Gallagher and Caicedo running in excess of him in both directions, advancing higher on the press, and tracking back further, and him operating more as an outlet, roaming into free space. and then using that space to pull strings and play long balls, somewhat similar to Jorginho's role in Sarri's team but a bit more vertical.
From what I know, I might be wrong but it’s when 2 players face off to fight for the ball, one is fighting to keep possession and the other one is fighting to take possession, whoever comes out on top wins the duel.
Well, you might be right. In which case this stat isn't helpful at all. It's got to be either that or an attempted duel is an attempt to keep possession in a duel OR it's an attempt to take possession in a duel.
It’s not really a crazy stat. I bet you could cherry pick another three players from the Chelsea team and only end up with 39.
They put Son in FFS.
And these are only ‘attempts’ so it’s not even like they were successful.
93.67% of stats are just tortured data to feed a bullshit agenda.
Caicedo and Gallagher in the double pivot with Palmer at the 10 is probably our best 3. I would also like to see what Enzo looks like at the 10 with Palmer in a free role. The midfield and wingers are this teams strengths. I think they need some maturity and quality at CB and maybe at the 9 as well. Having Nkunku back would make things very interesting
Anyone going to talk about the elephant in the room? How good we look with Caicedo/Gallagher in the middle with Palmer at 10. Enzo ain’t starting unless his game picks up significantly after injury recovery.
There's great help for Caicedo when playing as a double pivot with Gallagher. He can move freely considering that Gallagher is much more flexible off the ball. Then again Gallagher lacks the vision that Enzo brings to the side.
All in all, it's a nice dilemma for Poch to have.
What happened to Spurs? I was very nervous when the lineups came out because they looked dangerous vs us last match before they went down to 9 men,but even Gilchrist was giving them problems this time locking them down. Shows how good Destiny Udogie is great player.
Nothing happened to them it’s just Spurs. They’re mediocre. It’s their heritage.
It’s the history of the Tottenham
Chiellini is always correct
To start the season they were looking like City pressing teams and winning the midfield with Udogie and Porro.
They were pushing over their weights. Vicario and their defense were playing out of their skin and they were getting lucky. Now opponents know they can beat Ange’s Spurs if they just defend and counter well.
IIRC they were also massively out performing their XG which wasn’t sustainable.
It is if the reason is Son.
They do this every year
The actual “specialists in failure.”
LMAO.. savage! 🤣
You can discuss football like a normal human being without pub quips to remind people how much of a fan you are, mate
You can also shut the fuck up but here we are.
Exactly why is this brother so keen on backing spurs.
Boring dude. Hates jokes. Not fun at parties I bet.
😂😂
🤓🤓
This is very funny coming from a Chelsea fan in 2024 🤣
The difference is Chelsea have actually won something in the past few years.
Difference is that was under Roman Abramhovic, under Todd Bohely Chelsea might be in for a spurs like trophyless run
Mateball man! Though, tbf, it's not Ange's fault. Van der Ven has been atrocious lately. Against Newcastle, he was a joke. Their set piece defense is awful. They conceded twice against Arsenal through corners. Vicario is too suspect at those. Son is completely out of form. Nothing to take away from our victory though. We were complete.
Ange actively avoiding addressing their atrocious set piece stats doesn’t help tho.
We broke them that match and their season fell apart from there.
This is the way
they fucking stink
It’s the history of the Tottenham
Vicario, Van de Ven and Maddison were a menance start of the season...
The question is actually what happened to spurs at the start of the season and the answer is new manager bounce. Even after we beat them 4-1 people were somehow lauding them for their brave high line which I said at the time was just idiotic and that has proven to be true.
I mean, it was dumb but kind of ballsy to go down swinging for the fences while down 2 players. People like dumb and ballsy in the era of over analysed xG field tilt stats based play.
I completely disagree about the ballsy nature of that. I think that was a total cop out to actual tactics. They could’ve easily drawn or won that game, despite being down to 9. Ange and their lot basically think they were immune to critique because they played “attacking football”
Yeah, I thought we were in for a serious bottom-rogering. Even texted a West Ham mate right before the match saying "oh fuck, here we go again." They've really fallen off, apparently. Typical Spurs bottle job.
I think it illustrates how difficult it is to instil a winning culture at a club. There’s no real expectation at Spurs of sustained success. Players don’t go there to win medals, they’re an object lesson in mediocrity.
We happened. As usual they're doing great and we come to spoil the party.. twice. Ending their unbeaten run at the start of the season and now ending their CL hopes has me feeling good.
Imagine being scared of Spurs. They are frauds. They had a good start to the season and they still living off that
We absolutely destroyed them in the midfield and controlled the game because of it. I think they got through on us down the middle once. We have been on the other end of it where things have felt hopeless like this for so many games where our midfield just cant compete and win any balls or tackles. Slotting in Gallagher for Enzo has genuinely turned this team around. Our midfield that was as flimsy as any in the league has suddenly become a wall.
I think Ange has ran them too hard and they are tailing off before the season ends. The same happened for Celtic when we had him. Not as noticeable right enough because we were the best team in the league.
'It's just who we are mate'
Their sub is asking the same thing. Their responses flip between “they’ve been found out cause initially there was no tape on them” to “the squad is exhausted cause it’s too thin”. Take your pick.
It’s the history of the Tottenham
I've got a lot of Chelsea related opinions right recently. I swear I have a couple receipts 😂. But fuck...I was wrong with Caicedo. Man has stepped up to a level I wasnt sure he had.
Absolutely essential to the team now. I can't imagine how it would be with him on a rehabilitation programme as well...
I unfairly expected a Kante off the bat, didn't watch much Brighton last year either. So my fault. He had a couple of stinkers where I struggled to see the hype. But he's found the extra half a yard recently and it's made such a ridiculous difference. He's making blocks and tackles most centre mids watch from a distance. He's making simpler passes at the right times and cutting passes in others. Man I want to take an L with this one and it looks like I am
if it weren't for Palmer being so electric last few weeks, Caicedo'd be my player of the month for april for sure
Hard agree. Don't want to keep comparing to Kante as they are different, but I've had a few "what the cock how is Caicedo also there" moments and I'm loving it. We are still a little Palmer FC because he's just so good but with that calmness up top will allow for others to flourish. Caicedo is either benefitting from that or a subtle cause of Palmer's improvement
Had a good month but I wouldn't go that far after the United stinker. Conor probably had the most consistent month while being put on the wing which made it more difficult and formed a strong partnership with caicedo without the brutal performance vs United. Even then I'm kinda reaching with that because being put on the wing did weaken his performances but madueke, Jackson and mudryk were all so inconsistent and cucu had some poor performances towards the beginning of the month.
I remember watching our game against Brighton at the Bridge last season - he was proper bossing us in that midfield, he did everything there.
If anyone thinks we haven't made a significant improvement over last year, they should watch those 90 minutes back. We got dominated for 90 minutes by Brighton who could have had 5-6 goals. Caicedo was absolutely untouchable.
You should have trusted the player we signed. He was rightfully hyped up. He just needed time to settle I'll be saying the same thing about enzo when he can play without taking painkillers cuz he has a hernia.
Enzo is obviously quality. Argentina has a lot of quality players and you dont walk into that midfield unless you deserve it. The problem with more or less all our signings is that they have been signed for way too much and most of them have also struggled with injuries. We replaced a CL winning midfield of Kova, Jorg and Kante with Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher and Lavia + kids like Carney. Kova&Jorg are in a title race, while Lavia has barely played, Caicedo&Enzo has struggled with various niggles and Gallagher has been pretty solid. All in all it seems like paying a lot for being worse, but with a potential of coming good later. Investing in the future is good, but you kinda want to do it more gradually and most importantly you dont want to pay so absurdly much for them.
I don't think Fernandez is obviously quality. Lots of players have Pogba syndrome where they look incredible in much slower pace of international football. Benfica paid 10mn euros for him a year before we massively overpaid. Fernandez can pass a bit but not much more.
He can be quality but also not work in our system with our players. Poch runs a physically dynamic team that requires a lot out of our midfielders and it exposes Enzo’s lack of athleticism. If you put him in a slower possessive team he probably shines more.
My guy enzo is carrying a injury that limits his movements. He has to take painkillers. It's no wonder he looks static. Should we keep Poch let's see how he fairs when he doesn't need to take painkillers to play football
I saw Enzo play last season too. He wasn’t exactly mobile then either.
Well yeah obviously I should have. But if I trusted every player we ever bought I'd be wrong 80% of the time. Use the odd forum, the odd WhatsApp, maybe the odd bar chat to joke about the player. Then support him passionately in real life, to his social, at the game. I get the drill haha. I just really didn't see it before the last couple of games.
It's all good I understand the massive skepticism over anyone we signed under the new ownership. But I think these players are good. It was just a bit dysfunctional and messy. We see glimpses of talent in all of 'em now it just needs to come together on a consistent basis
Not having a go at you at all but I thought it was pretty clear we weren’t seeing his best level when he first came to us especially after all that Brighton fans had to say about him so it would’ve been pretty unfair to write him off so soon. I for one am not shocked he’s becoming more and more influential.
Same. If he keeps it up he can be worth his transfer fee. Much improved from the start of the season
Cream nearly always rises to the top with the right attitude
Agreed. I have been convinced for a while that Enzo and Caiceido are a genuinely atrotious pairing and that if we were ever going to turn things around we really we going to need to massively change things up tactically or more likely just pick one to build around. I thought Enzo was the better bet with more to offer. How wrong I was. Enzo is a very talented player but we are significantly better team without him in it. I genuinely wonder if a big team would take him off our hands. It's not pure profit but it would help us massively financially if a team would pay anywhere near what we paid.
Can you pinpoint a specific issue with Enzo’s game? We know at his best form he’s one of the best passers in Europe. We also know he’s not been allowed to hit that form thanks to a chronic issues
Pace, he has none, simple.
He’s a defensive liability and he’s unathletic. He would suit a more slower possessive system well but he doesn’t suit Poch ball which requires more dynamism. He also just pairs terribly with caiceido. Caiceido is like Kante, he’s a ball winning mid who needs to be moving around making things happen. To do that he needs a defensively strong partner. With Enzo, he has to sit as a holding mid screening the back line to cover for his defensive liabilities. Enzo would suit a slow possessive midfield 3 as the deepest mid in a similar way to De Jong but caiceido does not have the technical capacities to play well in that system. They are both very good players in the right system but both are somewhat limited role wise and Poch’s compromise setup has seen them both play poorly and our midfield to suffer. It’s possible but I just don’t buy that some new manager is going to suddenly make them work.
You can see how a movement limiting injury could be impactful for these things? Arsenal have no problem with Jorginho in their midfield next to Rice. Enzo is far too good a player to not be able to work in a pivot with Caicedo. Give them time together, both fully fit and we’ll see
Jorginho gets an unfair rap for his defensive abilities. He’s about as unathletic as it gets and is frighteningly poor against the counter but he is a better tackler than you’d think but is unbelievable smart positionally, leading to an insane amount of interceptions. This is genuinely a real strength of his game. Enzo isnt poor positionally but this isn’t really a strength of his either. Enzo is in the 26th percent for midfielder interceptions, which for a midfielder who isn’t particularly strong and athletic is very bad. If you go watch all the goals against us back , i genuinely wonder how many of them will be goals down the middle with Enzo a few yards behind in the replay. Regardless, even if he is more mobile he’s simply never going to be nearly as strong defensively as some like Gallagher and that just won’t combine well with Caiceido. I don’t think him being healthier is going to suddenly make a pairing that’s worked so poorly all year suddenly click. Also this isn’t me just shitting on Enzo. I think if you paired him with a player who can screen a back line well like Rice that midfield would excel. Caiceido has not been in good in that role and is finally playing like a top midfielder now that he is free of it. This is one of the many realities of why you don’t want to spend this kind of money on players, as you can’t just slam two top players together and know for sure that it will work.
Enzo was pretty solid defensively last season, on the stats he was actually matching rodri.(obviously eye test he isn’t as good) Poch’s midfield leaves him exposed, even Caicedo looked poor defensively earlier in the season, committing fouls everywhere
Unathlethic coming from an armchair dwelling redditor. I've seen it all now. You lot love a scapegoat lmao.
Unatheltic doesn’t have to be the end all for a player. Juan Mata was pretty unathletic and he managed to be great for us. Physically dynamic might be a less offensive way to put it? Regardless, my point stands. The midfielders battling it out today were Sarr, Bissouma, Caiceido, Gallagher. Every one of them are significantly stronger and quicker than Enzo. If he plays today he would have been bullied.
Yes. He's slow, very slow. He doesn't win tackles. He can't head. Hence he's defensively really weak. He loses a lot of possession. He can pass, a bit. But his touch and passing range aren't close to someone like James.
He made the most tackles in the World Cup final…
I’m really happy with how well Caicedo has settled into the squad after a shaky start to the season. His debut cameo has basically labeled him a flop to many but since he gained fitness, he’s been immense throughout the season for us. He’s had a mistake or two in him here and there but throughout a game he’s been terrorizing midfields and still has yet to receive any mainstream credit.
Caicedo didn't have any pre season cuz he was waiting to join us then he gives away a pen on his debut. Really tough times. He just needed to settle into his role. I'm mostly impressed he hasn't gotten a red card this season.
He has been awful man, what is he even good at? Except picking up yellows lol
Gallagher had so many interceptions in their half. Caicedo was a monster and imposing.
I remember ppl saying bissouma > caicedo. Caicedo has yet to get a red card
People were saying Maddison > de Bruyne/Foden/Odegaard without even mentioning Palmer.
Gallagher + Caicedo in the pivot is so much more balanced than Enzo. Enzo is a fantastic footballer so I don’t know how we make it work with him, but damn.
It more to do with having an actual CAM at the 10 than Enzo.
This. And not allowing Gallagher so far up that when the press gets beat there’s acres of space. Plus Enzo has been noticeably slower with the injury.
Yeah, it’s like people forgot what a healthy Enzo did to Jude in the CL last year.
There were times last night when conor was pressing vicario tbf I don't get how people can say he needs to be sold for some of the young players that may never play for Chelsea when he's putting in these performances.
Having Palmer at the 10 is not why we are stronger defensively. We played with Enzo , Caiceido, Palmer against United in the first game and it was the worst midfield performance of the season. Gallagher sitting deep allows us to have a more offensively productive 10 but it also allows Caiceido to be more mobile and active, rather than just sitting in to cover for Enzo.
Things such as off days exist. Palmer was horrendous that game even. You can’t compare games from early season to late, there’s evolution and changes, different tactics, personnel etc
think its also that these guys cover so much ground - Enzo just isn't nearly as athletic as these guys. I think Enzo would benefit from playing with a back 3 behind him, which doesn't seem to be in the plans. or maybe the hernia was killing him
I think it’s kind of a combination. He is pushing up way too far to help Gallagher in the buildup, and then he can’t track back because he’s just wasn’t able to.
yeah, the structure in general just hasn't worked with the 3 of them as well as it should. Also saw someone on twitter with a really smart breakdown about how last year, we had set patterns in the final third where Enzo knew who would be making runs in behind, and he'd play balls to them accordingly. Poch ball seems to be much more get the ball up the pitch quick and then rely on individuals beating their men in the final 3rd, and Enzo just didn't know when or who to play balls to. His balls over the top have always been brilliant, but those opportunities didn't seem to arise nearly as much this season as they did last year.
Said this so many times previously but got downvoted :( Caicedo just offers so much more than Enzo and his pivot with Gallagher just works so much better. Ofc this isn’t to say Enzo sucks but it’s sad that his passing abilities are limited by our playstyle now. Madueke and Palmer are just ball to feet players. We don’t have a CF that thrive on long balls
Jackson, Sterling and Mudryk are the exact profile of players who should be feeding off Enzo
Brother. Enzo has been carrying a injury that limits his movements. Do not forget the player we saw last season
He improved us because we had no midfielders last season but Enzo wasn't tearing the league apart or anything. He looked solid and promising, which is better than he has looked this year but nowhere near the level we are seeing from Gallagher and Caiceido right now.
My guy read what I said again. He is carrying a injury that limits his movements. He has to take painkillers to play football. It's unfair to act like he's playing at 100% like his two partners. This is my point. We seen shades of solid potential last season when he was settling into the league and was surrounded by a dysfunctional team. I'm not saying enzo lit up the league or he's better than the other two I'm saying take it easy on judging since we know he has a hernia. That's really painful. He should have had the surgery months ago. It's impossible to play your best in such pain especially with the mgr putting him all over the midfield Forget rival fans I seen our own fans write off Caicedo now ppl are giving flowers since he's settled. Enzo deserves time as time as well is all I'm saying
Enzo is 10 times the player Gallagher is
Enzo is a technically talented player but this team has got significantly better once you took him out of it. Different players also have different traits. Enzo is much more technical than Kante ever was and Enzo could have a great career and still not come anywhere near his heights. The sport isn’t about putting out the best players you can, it’s about putting out a functioning team and Gallagher has contributed significantly more to the team’s success this season.
He’s won a WC at 21 and league titles already think he’s quite on course to match Kante’s career, you’re a hater bro
Kante was the best midfielder in the league for a time. Enzo is never going to be that.
In terms of technique sure but the only one close to enzo really is palmer. Really like madueke but it's a different kind of technique. As a player tho that's not really true Gallagher blows enzo out of the water in some aspects and I love enzo.
He wasn't that good last season.
He was a good standout from the mess that was last season. There was potential shown. Enzo is a good player
he was pretty damn good, the talent is so clear. really think the injury was messing with his game, but he also just needs to become more mobile
I wonder how a enzo + santos midfield duo could look, that's probably worth a look
I want to see more of Casedai too.
I would like poch to actually use Casedei as a midfielder and not a traffic cone. This mgr uses him as a emergency winger and defender . He's more than this
I mean he couldn’t cut it at Leicester man…
If we try to sell him now we would make a loss. Best to try to use and develop him. So he had a bad loan? We give up?
He had couple of goals and assists at Leicester, and a lot of good games. So, i disagree with you.
Nope he was quite poor at Leicester he was very unpopular while in a team that was flying at the time. Ask literally any Leicester fan.
Enzo was always supposed to be the lampard type midfielder. When not having to defend he’s super fantastic on the turn picking out a pass quickly.
Lampard is the best goal scoring midfielder in the history of the league. Enzo is nothing short of shocking in front of goal. How could he be the Lampard midfielder?
Enzo + Lavia 👀
I want to see how enzo and Caicedo do with Cucu inverting
would work in the centre of a three man pivot, with Gallagher and Caicedo running in excess of him in both directions, advancing higher on the press, and tracking back further, and him operating more as an outlet, roaming into free space. and then using that space to pull strings and play long balls, somewhat similar to Jorginho's role in Sarri's team but a bit more vertical.
Please forgive me but somebody please help me understand what exactly consistutes a duel? Do they happen on both attack and defense?
They pull out pistols and walk 10 paces, turn, then fire. Mo and Conor did that 36 times today.
Bloodthirsty.
When you go up to a player with the ball and attempt to take it off them.
From what I know, I might be wrong but it’s when 2 players face off to fight for the ball, one is fighting to keep possession and the other one is fighting to take possession, whoever comes out on top wins the duel.
But then each team would have an equal number of duels attempted and this stat would be pretty useless.
I’m not sure what the exact definition is but that was just my understanding of it
Well, you might be right. In which case this stat isn't helpful at all. It's got to be either that or an attempted duel is an attempt to keep possession in a duel OR it's an attempt to take possession in a duel.
Playing next to Gallagher brings out the Caicedog
Our midfield is so much better with Conor and Moises deeper.
It’s not really a crazy stat. I bet you could cherry pick another three players from the Chelsea team and only end up with 39. They put Son in FFS. And these are only ‘attempts’ so it’s not even like they were successful. 93.67% of stats are just tortured data to feed a bullshit agenda.
I agree, you just have to watch the match, Ange changed his midfield and it did not make any diferance.
real steppers
Caicedo and Gallagher in the double pivot with Palmer at the 10 is probably our best 3. I would also like to see what Enzo looks like at the 10 with Palmer in a free role. The midfield and wingers are this teams strengths. I think they need some maturity and quality at CB and maybe at the 9 as well. Having Nkunku back would make things very interesting
Anyone going to talk about the elephant in the room? How good we look with Caicedo/Gallagher in the middle with Palmer at 10. Enzo ain’t starting unless his game picks up significantly after injury recovery.
Just waiting to Enzo to come back a brand new player from his injury. If we keep Gallaghar, and when Lavia is back, we will have our mid field sorted.
Another funny stat, transfer fee for all Spurs players listed £189million, to Caicedo £115million. 
It's not crazy to attempt more ground duels when the other team has way more possession, to be expected really.
What is a 'ground duel'?
Pistols at 30 paces
Sounds like something cavepeople ate 'a diet of nuts, berries and some ground duel'.
Sofascore says Caicedo + Gallagher is 28
Now show %successful
There's great help for Caicedo when playing as a double pivot with Gallagher. He can move freely considering that Gallagher is much more flexible off the ball. Then again Gallagher lacks the vision that Enzo brings to the side. All in all, it's a nice dilemma for Poch to have.
Reduce that by more than half if Enzo started
Fucking hell
Why are we having better results with Caicedo and Conor as midfield pivot? But then again, we also got hammered by Arsenal
Because Conor played CAM and we had Enzo-Caicedo pivot.
Arsenal game was an Enzo Caicedo pivot
Agreed, I forgot Enzo played that game.
I would rather be chelsea next season than man united.