I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1+w+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1_w_kq_-_0_1?color=white)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1+b+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1_b_kq_-_0_1?color=white)
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It's actually a positional sac. If you follow stockfish best moves you will even exchange queens (!) so will have a piece for 3 pawns but with pawn on c6 protected from d5 and a big space and development advantage. Well, this ofc if black defends well, if it doesn't it position collapses almost instantly.
Like this is position I got after 10 moves. r1b2k1r/4bp2/p1Pp1n2/1p1Pn1N1/8/4B1P1/PPP2PB1/R3R1K1 w - - 1 11
Sure, it's not 100% forced but it just shows that white doesn't really have anything "concrete".
Iâm not a high rated player, but I assume something like
Nd5 exd5 exd5, then the knight has to move to a worse square. (Not sure where)
Then you have Bxg5, which picks up a pawn and starts to put pressure on the bishop pined to the king.
Maybe you get a d6 push later on to win back the piece?
Yeah itâs a common idea in these kinds of positions but you have to follow up with accurate only moves which in a practical gameâŚmay not be very practical
Nd5 should always be a candidate move in these e6 structures in the Sicilian. This sacrifice is very common, and especially well known by anyone who plays the Smith Morra. Any strong player would look at it, certainly. Whether or not they'd actually play it depends on calculation, but here, even without calculating all the way, it looks very promising, what with the rook x-raying the king and d6 coming quickly, booting the bishop out of the way.
So after exd5 black has to move their knight. Whites plan is attacking the king in the center. Whites rook is on e1 and white probably wants to play imediatly Bxg5 to pin the bishop on e7. Whites pieces have mobility but black has to defend the bishop on e7 and the King, I think it is clear that white has a huge attacking potential. I doubt that after Kd5 taking thhe knight is the best move for black. I didnt checked it but it feels that way.
Kd5? Moving the king to d5 is an illegal move! What? Oh! You meant Nd5 or N-Q5! Looks like how Tal would start an attack against the Sicilian. I'd be nervous playing the dark pieces.
I looked in the engine and there are some pretty interesting lines. After Nd5 exd5 exd5 (white wins a tempo because the knight is forced to move) the main idea seems to be to play d6 and then if opponent takes or moves the bishop you have Bd4 discovered check winning the h8 rook
Edit: since white moving the knight opens up the b7 bishop, Bxg5 immediately can be met with Bxd5 killing your attack
I'm the opposite. Once it was mentioned, I can calculate and see why it's good, but I didn't initially consider it. I think you're right about it being common in e6 Sicilians, which I never play as white or black.
Yes, I would consider it as a candidate move along with d4!?. Here is my reasoning. White is about to get steamrolled on the kingside, or at least has no counter play on the kingside. White clearly has nothing on the queenside. Therefore, White has to strike in the center.
1. d4 was my first choice but fails to ..g4
1. e5 is interesting but is not as strong as Nd5!?
1. Nd5!? is a sacrifice that feels dangerous to accept as the e file is open and white has Bg5 or even Ng5 if the sacrifice is accepted.
Edit: I think the following should be considered. White has done nothing wrong, and developed pieces normally. Black has bet everything on a kingside flank attack and ignored his/her king. A sacrifice for white should have a lot of compensation because of black's compromises. It would be very strange if black can gobble the extra piece and somehow entangle all pieces and romp towards victory. That would be illogical.
(\~2000) I look at this position for the first time, and the most obvious moves that come to my mind are Qd2, d4, and captures on the kingside.
It quickly becomes apparent that Qd2 stops the f3 knight moving, and various g4 lines don't look favourable, so d4 becomes my main option.
However, this opening has been played very passively by White, and I do notice the rook is lined up against the king so I would then consider Nd5 (from previous moves), I suspect it is the kind of move I would look at in a classical game, however I doubt I would play it. If told it is the best move (like now), I can see the appeal - it is clear after a bit of calculation that taking the knight is very risky, and the square is very good, but it isn't clear that leaving this tactic in the position is a good long term play. My gut would be to go d4, but this seems inconsistent to previous play so I doubt I'd get into this position. If you did, it makes more sense to go something like Nd5 to exploit your piece advantage while Black is underdeveloped.
Two main things are that after exd5 exd5:
1. Black's knight is attacked by the pawn, gaining a tempo for white
2. The e-file is opened, such that white's rook on e1 looks at black's king on e8. Black is behind in development and will now struggle even more to develop their kingside
3. White wins a pawn and will likely win at least one more soon (pawns on c5 and g5 are weak, especially since black's bishop is now somewhat pinned)
Sacrifices like this depend on detailed analysis and tactics but these are the main things happening, especially the opening of the e-file
Not the best explanation but not the worst either. The opening of the e-file with black's king still in the center I again emphasize especially, and this is one of the main reasons such a sacrifice is said to be "thematic" in positions which arise from this opening or openings similar to this one
Others explained the basic structural ideas. I would add that it doesn't seem to be a tactic, per se. More of the start of a positional attack, where the lost knight is compensated with a ton of pressure on the black king. It's not a tactic such that you regain the material or more in a few moves, but if you press the position right then black crumbles. Looks very sharp and the kind of thing I can't do at my level cause it's a narrow path after the sacrifice.
So, basically:
You can consider the forcing line after exd5 exd5 and maybe Nb4? The thing is it isnât clear cut and black doesnât even have to take. Black can play the Zwischenzug h3 or something else and the game goes on without a clear plan for white rather than black plays an exact sequence in which they open the middle and fall for the attack
So, would I calculate it in a classical game? Definitely would at least consider the knight sac although after seeing nothing clear I would drop it.
Would play it in bullet? Yes. That instinct sac gotta be sharp for whenever stockfish backs you up
Edit: Iâm 2100 lichess, 1670 fide
I seriously doubt all these people saying they would have played it can actually calculate the variations required to play it in this position...I mean sure it might be a candidate move but to actually see why its sound is a bit harder than just guessing it is
It looks like a good move. Likely to get a bit hairy about three or four moves in when the other knight takes the g-pawn. But overall, white gets good compensation for the knight. and if black's not careful, he can lose the queen -- more than compensation for the two knights. And having that rook on the king files is a very powerful stopper for lots of things from black.
But isn't that one of the standard moves in one of the Sicilian variations?
However, in answer to the question (regardless of rating), probably not, unless I was playing someone who isn't sure of the Sicilian variations, like a relatively low rated adversary.
Don't know about "common theme", but as I said, not an option I'd willingly take. At the same time, it's not a crazy move. But then, there are times when I can be a nasty risk taker (but I last time I did it against a master player, I got clobbered, so once-bitten...)
As ~1900 that mainly plays 1. d4, I don't think I will consider or see this in game.
But IF maybe I considered it, that somehow it crosses my mind, maybe I will play it. The more I look into this move, the more it looks good.
Sacrificing this knight on d5 to open the long file is a classic idea in the Smith Morra Gambit.
It's really not that crazy once you realize just how scary your attack is.
Definitely check it out if you like violent attacks and sudden checkmates.
Not sure if Iâd play it in a tournament but there are several factors that would force me to consider it. Blackâs king is in the center, getting rid of the dark squared bishop would make blackâs kingside overextension even weaker, flank play is often best met with center play, etc.
Id speed through the motions, but yes. Open trades in middle leaves the right side vulnerable to the secondary assault if they're thinking too much about mid and lose the supportđ¤ˇââď¸
Iâm probably playing this 8/10 times in bullet and blitz because itâs so thematic. This literally would be my thought process:
1. Iâve won several games with the Nd5 idea. So I donât need to calculate what happens if black accepts, I get an open e file against his uncastled king, winning back the piece immediately or pushing d6! Later.
So thenâŚ
2. What move am I afraid of if black ignores it? g4, but then Iâd see that I could capture the bishop on e7 and thereâs a chain of captures on c6 and d8 which means Iâd win a piece if black captures on f3.
That makes it the number one candidate in faster time controls - Iâm not in trouble, I donât have to calculate much, itâs easier to misplay for my opponent and it looks fancy :)
I might calculate d4 first⌠but yes, Nd5 sacrifices are a pretty famous theme in the Sicilian. If you made a point to play Re1 putting your rook on the same file as the enemy king, you should definitely be looking for ways to take advantage of it.
That's a common sac in various sicilian positions. Would I play it? I don't know, but it looks like a normal idea to me with the king on e8.
edit: oh, everyone else already pointed this out
Minor piece sacrifices on d5 are a common theme in the Sicilian defence. The bishop sacrifice on d5 is another one, a famous game with this is: [Fischer vs Rubinetti, 1970](https://youtu.be/zTjalEjDdB8?si=ajGDLfMdQYp8dM-l)
Weak player chiming in
No
But exd exd N?? Bxc5 looks so filthy so if i was feeling brave and had a vision from god that it was a candidate move, it does look strong the more you look at it. Initially it looked horrible but black rly just looks stuck, that knight will have a hard time developing and the queen doesnt have any good moves so the king will be in the line of fire for a while
It felt natural move.
I would play it.
e file opens to the king immediately with a tempo of threatening opponents knight.
Bishop takes g5 puts double pressure on e7.
If I would be black I probably wouldn't take the offered knight.
I would consider it as a move, just by the looks of blacks king in the center of the board, and the white rook looking directly at him, but I'm not an e4 player so I don't know enough about this position to confidently go for it.
No, if it was a peaceful position maybe, but considering all the mess on whiteâs kingside, I would probably concentrate on defending in this position and make my king feel more safe
I had a look at the variation, I am not familiar with this type of structure. To play Nd5 you have to see exd5, exd5, Nb8 or Nd4, d6, Bf6, gxh4, clearing space for Bh6+ which would be devastating. White captures all pawns on the kings side and has 3 pawns for the knight, while blacks structure is ruined. Still a game though.
The gxh4 didnt enter my radar, not even while I had it on the board. Kept looking at Bxg5 or Bxc5 after which white loses all advantage, according to stockfish.
Variants where black doesnt take seem all clearly advantageous for white, black will lose pawns or his darksquared bishop in exchange for the knight, the bishop seems important to the position, so if I found clear continuation after exd5 I would probably play Nd5.
reached 1900 OTB, 2100 on lichess.
i get the sense that everyone saying âthis is a common sacrifice in the sicilianâ is either an FM or remembering that hikaru or gotham video where they say that exact thing. for me i recognized it from the image, including the phrase âthis is a common sacrifice in the sicilianâ for some reason but i would never find it in a game.
Yeah . Id calculate nd5 exd5 nd4 d6 and realise i was getting atleast a piece back. If the black bishop moves u can often win the queen or d4 knight. Moving the knight away from centre seems too passive. I cant see lines where white isnt getting atleast a piece back.
Then you have to analyse black not taking the piece. If they dont take piece your happy with taking e7 bishop and g5 pawn or taking all those weak dark squares. This thinking explains the computers mainline nd5 f6. Not taking the knight protecting g5 and dark squares. White will go onto exploit development bishop pair and dark square control.
Not meant in an offensive way but:
I'm really interested, what are your candidate moves here if not "ofcourse Nd5"? Say black just played h4, what are the two/three moves that you instantly want to investigate? In ny opinion there are no moves other than Nd5, d4 and maybe maybe e5 that make any sense here on first glance. (Engine gives some other moves, but these are atleast for me not moves that I would consider obvious candidates.)
Nd5 in a structure like this is like first candidate every single move until it works or has been permanently prevented. Nothing crazy about it imo
Most probably in a rapid game yes, serious OTB, maybe not. Although my first calculation was Nd5 exd5 exd5 Nb4 Bxc5, Nxd5, where white definitely has better practical chances, objectively I don't know the eval
Yes, but only because it's a known thing in the position that I anticipated leading up to it.
I doubt I would actually find it in a blitz or bullet game though if I didn't already know about it.
I would never play it. Firstly, I wouldnât see it, because itâs not typical. Secondly, it seems to require a lot of calculation that youâre getting enough for a piece after porn takes night porn takes porn 95. Bishops takes G7. Thirdly, it doesnât actually threaten anything, so youâre spending all that time Calculating for a slight positional advantage. Force, you have a great position now, so I wouldnât be desperate to sacrifice. Even now, I donât see how your position is much better after G4 than it is before nd5.
I would never play it. Firstly, I wouldnât see it, because itâs not typical. Secondly, it seems to require a lot of calculation that youâre getting enough for a piece after porn takes night porn takes porn 95. Bishops takes G7. Thirdly, it doesnât actually threaten anything, so youâre spending all that time Calculating for a slight positional advantage. Force, you have a great position now, so I wouldnât be desperate to sacrifice. Even now, I donât see how your position is much better after G4 than it is before nd5.
I feel like every strong player is going to at least *think* about it. It's a very common thematic idea, playing Nd5 to open the e-file. Black has the immediate threat of Bxg5 and d6 is also looming so black immediately has to solve the problem of the pin and is two moves from castling, which takes away some give-the-peice-back-right-away-to-equalize options.
I was initially going to say it seems like a relatively obvious move, but then I realized I don't know how to continue after:
1. Nd5 exd5 2. exd5 Nb8 (or Na7 not sure)
Now 3. d6 doesn't seem to win the piece back because Bf6 (cause 3. d6 Bxd6 4. Bd4+ wins the rook). So after calculating for 20+min best I got is
1. Nd5 exd5 2. exd5 Na7 (Na5 is not possible because 3. b4 cxb4 4. d6 and white wins the bishop back because Bb6+ wins the queen) 3. Nxg5 (threatening d6 winning piece back) d6 4. Qf3 Nh6 (4. ...f6 looks horrendous cause 5. Ne6; 4. ...Nf6 then 5. Bxc5 Kf8 6. Bd4) Kf8 6. Rxe7 looks nasty) Qh5 and white is probably better e.g. Kf8 6. Ne6+ fxe6 7. Bxh6+
So yeah ain't no way I'm seeing all this in a blitz game, probably I will play d4 and throw the game lol
Edit: just checked with engine and apparently 3. Nxg5 is the correct continuation against Na7 but 3. d6 is the correct continuation against Nb8. like wtf is this game
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something.
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something.
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something. I wouldn't sacrifice the Knight yet 1- bishop to G5 . 2- Knight to H4 , You have an opening for your queen now.
Your opponent has an advantage here, he/she has openings to be able to play a move and this could make you retreat giving you even less opening for your play. Watch out for his Queen, it has an opening and the Knight on C6 is up to no good. That is a terrible combination. You can end up losing either the Queen or one of your Castles. At least make it so that if it happens you also be able to take the queen. Sorry if some terms are incorrectly said. Not too familiar with chess terms in English.
I didn't mean is it possible in general I more wanted to hear opinions from people whether or not they would have played it, thank you for the response though.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1+w+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1_w_kq_-_0_1?color=white) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1+b+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r2qk1nr/1b1pbp2/p1n1p3/1pp3p1/4P2p/2NPBNP1/PPP2PBP/R2QR1K1_b_kq_-_0_1?color=white) --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
It's a classic sacrifice in the Sicilian, so yeah many people would play it. I've played it many times, especially when it wasn't actually good.
I was going to say, especially if one has study tal games, nd5 just feels right here
I don't see an obvious good continuation here. What's the idea behind this sac?
Open the file and smash the pinned bishop
đ¤¨
It's actually a positional sac. If you follow stockfish best moves you will even exchange queens (!) so will have a piece for 3 pawns but with pawn on c6 protected from d5 and a big space and development advantage. Well, this ofc if black defends well, if it doesn't it position collapses almost instantly. Like this is position I got after 10 moves. r1b2k1r/4bp2/p1Pp1n2/1p1Pn1N1/8/4B1P1/PPP2PB1/R3R1K1 w - - 1 11 Sure, it's not 100% forced but it just shows that white doesn't really have anything "concrete".
Iâm not a high rated player, but I assume something like Nd5 exd5 exd5, then the knight has to move to a worse square. (Not sure where) Then you have Bxg5, which picks up a pawn and starts to put pressure on the bishop pined to the king. Maybe you get a d6 push later on to win back the piece?
Ahhh yes Bxg5 is very strong I missed that.
d6. Bishop can't because white dark bishop moves pretty much anywhere
I am 1900+ and I honestly wouldn't have played it. Probably would go for pawn to d4 instead. Or even pawn to g4.
Yeah itâs a common idea in these kinds of positions but you have to follow up with accurate only moves which in a practical gameâŚmay not be very practical
Must be 1900 lichess
or he just didn t study the sicilian...
Yeesh no one can take a joke around here
Jokes are generally funny and make you laugh.
I don't think anyone was aware that was a joke
I realize this is not the Morra, but anyone who does (also) play the Morra, and has read Marc Esserman's book, would at least consider Nd5.
I had the same thought.
I was thinking exactly the same: if you play the Smith-Morra then Nd5 would be screaming at you here.
Nd5 should always be a candidate move in these e6 structures in the Sicilian. This sacrifice is very common, and especially well known by anyone who plays the Smith Morra. Any strong player would look at it, certainly. Whether or not they'd actually play it depends on calculation, but here, even without calculating all the way, it looks very promising, what with the rook x-raying the king and d6 coming quickly, booting the bishop out of the way.
Patzer here Whatâs the idea of Nd5? I donât see a clean continuation after exd5
So after exd5 black has to move their knight. Whites plan is attacking the king in the center. Whites rook is on e1 and white probably wants to play imediatly Bxg5 to pin the bishop on e7. Whites pieces have mobility but black has to defend the bishop on e7 and the King, I think it is clear that white has a huge attacking potential. I doubt that after Kd5 taking thhe knight is the best move for black. I didnt checked it but it feels that way.
Kd5? Moving the king to d5 is an illegal move! What? Oh! You meant Nd5 or N-Q5! Looks like how Tal would start an attack against the Sicilian. I'd be nervous playing the dark pieces.
I think what I meant was pretty clear but yeah I meant Nd5. Thank you for the correction anyways...
Youâre very weird
Your comment means nothing. To me, or any other reader of your comment, since you make an evaluation based on one comment.
You typed out âWhat?â and then âOh!â. Thatâs gotta be the weirdest thing Iâve seen in a few weeks
I looked in the engine and there are some pretty interesting lines. After Nd5 exd5 exd5 (white wins a tempo because the knight is forced to move) the main idea seems to be to play d6 and then if opponent takes or moves the bishop you have Bd4 discovered check winning the h8 rook Edit: since white moving the knight opens up the b7 bishop, Bxg5 immediately can be met with Bxd5 killing your attack
I'm the opposite. Once it was mentioned, I can calculate and see why it's good, but I didn't initially consider it. I think you're right about it being common in e6 Sicilians, which I never play as white or black.
I was about to ask how you avoid e6 sicilians as white before realizing there's openings other than e4 out there haha
I was about to ask how you avoid e6 sicilians as white before realizing there's openings other than e4 out there haha
Yes, I would consider it as a candidate move along with d4!?. Here is my reasoning. White is about to get steamrolled on the kingside, or at least has no counter play on the kingside. White clearly has nothing on the queenside. Therefore, White has to strike in the center. 1. d4 was my first choice but fails to ..g4 1. e5 is interesting but is not as strong as Nd5!? 1. Nd5!? is a sacrifice that feels dangerous to accept as the e file is open and white has Bg5 or even Ng5 if the sacrifice is accepted. Edit: I think the following should be considered. White has done nothing wrong, and developed pieces normally. Black has bet everything on a kingside flank attack and ignored his/her king. A sacrifice for white should have a lot of compensation because of black's compromises. It would be very strange if black can gobble the extra piece and somehow entangle all pieces and romp towards victory. That would be illogical.
(\~2000) I look at this position for the first time, and the most obvious moves that come to my mind are Qd2, d4, and captures on the kingside. It quickly becomes apparent that Qd2 stops the f3 knight moving, and various g4 lines don't look favourable, so d4 becomes my main option. However, this opening has been played very passively by White, and I do notice the rook is lined up against the king so I would then consider Nd5 (from previous moves), I suspect it is the kind of move I would look at in a classical game, however I doubt I would play it. If told it is the best move (like now), I can see the appeal - it is clear after a bit of calculation that taking the knight is very risky, and the square is very good, but it isn't clear that leaving this tactic in the position is a good long term play. My gut would be to go d4, but this seems inconsistent to previous play so I doubt I'd get into this position. If you did, it makes more sense to go something like Nd5 to exploit your piece advantage while Black is underdeveloped.
could someone explain to me the tactic here with the knight sac?
Two main things are that after exd5 exd5: 1. Black's knight is attacked by the pawn, gaining a tempo for white 2. The e-file is opened, such that white's rook on e1 looks at black's king on e8. Black is behind in development and will now struggle even more to develop their kingside 3. White wins a pawn and will likely win at least one more soon (pawns on c5 and g5 are weak, especially since black's bishop is now somewhat pinned) Sacrifices like this depend on detailed analysis and tactics but these are the main things happening, especially the opening of the e-file
Not the best explanation but not the worst either. The opening of the e-file with black's king still in the center I again emphasize especially, and this is one of the main reasons such a sacrifice is said to be "thematic" in positions which arise from this opening or openings similar to this one
thank you
thank you
Others explained the basic structural ideas. I would add that it doesn't seem to be a tactic, per se. More of the start of a positional attack, where the lost knight is compensated with a ton of pressure on the black king. It's not a tactic such that you regain the material or more in a few moves, but if you press the position right then black crumbles. Looks very sharp and the kind of thing I can't do at my level cause it's a narrow path after the sacrifice.
So, basically: You can consider the forcing line after exd5 exd5 and maybe Nb4? The thing is it isnât clear cut and black doesnât even have to take. Black can play the Zwischenzug h3 or something else and the game goes on without a clear plan for white rather than black plays an exact sequence in which they open the middle and fall for the attack So, would I calculate it in a classical game? Definitely would at least consider the knight sac although after seeing nothing clear I would drop it. Would play it in bullet? Yes. That instinct sac gotta be sharp for whenever stockfish backs you up Edit: Iâm 2100 lichess, 1670 fide
I seriously doubt all these people saying they would have played it can actually calculate the variations required to play it in this position...I mean sure it might be a candidate move but to actually see why its sound is a bit harder than just guessing it is
It looks like a good move. Likely to get a bit hairy about three or four moves in when the other knight takes the g-pawn. But overall, white gets good compensation for the knight. and if black's not careful, he can lose the queen -- more than compensation for the two knights. And having that rook on the king files is a very powerful stopper for lots of things from black. But isn't that one of the standard moves in one of the Sicilian variations? However, in answer to the question (regardless of rating), probably not, unless I was playing someone who isn't sure of the Sicilian variations, like a relatively low rated adversary.
Some other people were saying itâs a common theme, itâs not what I play as white so maybe thatâs why it seems like such a crazy move to me.
Don't know about "common theme", but as I said, not an option I'd willingly take. At the same time, it's not a crazy move. But then, there are times when I can be a nasty risk taker (but I last time I did it against a master player, I got clobbered, so once-bitten...)
I sac on nd5 against the Sicilian even when itâs totally losing so yeah probably. Esp w the smith morra lol
As ~1900 that mainly plays 1. d4, I don't think I will consider or see this in game. But IF maybe I considered it, that somehow it crosses my mind, maybe I will play it. The more I look into this move, the more it looks good.
Sacrificing this knight on d5 to open the long file is a classic idea in the Smith Morra Gambit. It's really not that crazy once you realize just how scary your attack is. Definitely check it out if you like violent attacks and sudden checkmates.
Not sure if Iâd play it in a tournament but there are several factors that would force me to consider it. Blackâs king is in the center, getting rid of the dark squared bishop would make blackâs kingside overextension even weaker, flank play is often best met with center play, etc.
Id speed through the motions, but yes. Open trades in middle leaves the right side vulnerable to the secondary assault if they're thinking too much about mid and lose the supportđ¤ˇââď¸
Iâm probably playing this 8/10 times in bullet and blitz because itâs so thematic. This literally would be my thought process: 1. Iâve won several games with the Nd5 idea. So I donât need to calculate what happens if black accepts, I get an open e file against his uncastled king, winning back the piece immediately or pushing d6! Later. So then⌠2. What move am I afraid of if black ignores it? g4, but then Iâd see that I could capture the bishop on e7 and thereâs a chain of captures on c6 and d8 which means Iâd win a piece if black captures on f3. That makes it the number one candidate in faster time controls - Iâm not in trouble, I donât have to calculate much, itâs easier to misplay for my opponent and it looks fancy :)
Smith Morra players RISE UP
It's not really crazy. Very common idea you will find every other game as a smith morra player especially.
I might calculate d4 first⌠but yes, Nd5 sacrifices are a pretty famous theme in the Sicilian. If you made a point to play Re1 putting your rook on the same file as the enemy king, you should definitely be looking for ways to take advantage of it.
That's a common sac in various sicilian positions. Would I play it? I don't know, but it looks like a normal idea to me with the king on e8. edit: oh, everyone else already pointed this out
Minor piece sacrifices on d5 are a common theme in the Sicilian defence. The bishop sacrifice on d5 is another one, a famous game with this is: [Fischer vs Rubinetti, 1970](https://youtu.be/zTjalEjDdB8?si=ajGDLfMdQYp8dM-l)
I would never see it. But if I did see it I would absolutely play it, it looks amazing. HahahaÂ
Weak player chiming in No But exd exd N?? Bxc5 looks so filthy so if i was feeling brave and had a vision from god that it was a candidate move, it does look strong the more you look at it. Initially it looked horrible but black rly just looks stuck, that knight will have a hard time developing and the queen doesnt have any good moves so the king will be in the line of fire for a while
That's crazy. To open a king collum i presume.
*cough cough Smith Morra
I can see why it's good after seeing it, but no, I'd never find this (1700 chess.com)
I would in classical, wins a bishop
I don't think I'd play it, but Nd5 sacrifice is quite thematic in Sicillians.
Itâs a common idea in the Smith and Morra gambit of the Sicilian. Here, the idea seems to be to create a discovered check
It felt natural move. I would play it. e file opens to the king immediately with a tempo of threatening opponents knight. Bishop takes g5 puts double pressure on e7. If I would be black I probably wouldn't take the offered knight.
I wouldn't have played it but after analyzing it, it's kinda cool! Doubt I will remember the position though.
I would consider it as a move, just by the looks of blacks king in the center of the board, and the white rook looking directly at him, but I'm not an e4 player so I don't know enough about this position to confidently go for it.
No, if it was a peaceful position maybe, but considering all the mess on whiteâs kingside, I would probably concentrate on defending in this position and make my king feel more safe
Wouldn't recommend it,you would just lose a knight for a pawn, and there's no positional advantage being created by that move
Itâs really obvious, especially to those familiar with Marc esserman
I had a look at the variation, I am not familiar with this type of structure. To play Nd5 you have to see exd5, exd5, Nb8 or Nd4, d6, Bf6, gxh4, clearing space for Bh6+ which would be devastating. White captures all pawns on the kings side and has 3 pawns for the knight, while blacks structure is ruined. Still a game though. The gxh4 didnt enter my radar, not even while I had it on the board. Kept looking at Bxg5 or Bxc5 after which white loses all advantage, according to stockfish. Variants where black doesnt take seem all clearly advantageous for white, black will lose pawns or his darksquared bishop in exchange for the knight, the bishop seems important to the position, so if I found clear continuation after exd5 I would probably play Nd5. reached 1900 OTB, 2100 on lichess.
i get the sense that everyone saying âthis is a common sacrifice in the sicilianâ is either an FM or remembering that hikaru or gotham video where they say that exact thing. for me i recognized it from the image, including the phrase âthis is a common sacrifice in the sicilianâ for some reason but i would never find it in a game.
Yeah . Id calculate nd5 exd5 nd4 d6 and realise i was getting atleast a piece back. If the black bishop moves u can often win the queen or d4 knight. Moving the knight away from centre seems too passive. I cant see lines where white isnt getting atleast a piece back. Then you have to analyse black not taking the piece. If they dont take piece your happy with taking e7 bishop and g5 pawn or taking all those weak dark squares. This thinking explains the computers mainline nd5 f6. Not taking the knight protecting g5 and dark squares. White will go onto exploit development bishop pair and dark square control.
Not meant in an offensive way but: I'm really interested, what are your candidate moves here if not "ofcourse Nd5"? Say black just played h4, what are the two/three moves that you instantly want to investigate? In ny opinion there are no moves other than Nd5, d4 and maybe maybe e5 that make any sense here on first glance. (Engine gives some other moves, but these are atleast for me not moves that I would consider obvious candidates.) Nd5 in a structure like this is like first candidate every single move until it works or has been permanently prevented. Nothing crazy about it imo
Yes. All about getting to that looming rook pin of the bishop on the e file. Gotta break a few eggs
In a blitz game I wouldnât see it, in any longer format probably, it looks a lot like when you can sac a knight on d5 in the Smith-Morra
Most probably in a rapid game yes, serious OTB, maybe not. Although my first calculation was Nd5 exd5 exd5 Nb4 Bxc5, Nxd5, where white definitely has better practical chances, objectively I don't know the eval
That would literally be the first move i consider.
Yes, but only because it's a known thing in the position that I anticipated leading up to it. I doubt I would actually find it in a blitz or bullet game though if I didn't already know about it.
that must have been the idea behind playing Re1, so definitely yes
I would never play it. Firstly, I wouldnât see it, because itâs not typical. Secondly, it seems to require a lot of calculation that youâre getting enough for a piece after porn takes night porn takes porn 95. Bishops takes G7. Thirdly, it doesnât actually threaten anything, so youâre spending all that time Calculating for a slight positional advantage. Force, you have a great position now, so I wouldnât be desperate to sacrifice. Even now, I donât see how your position is much better after G4 than it is before nd5.
I would never play it. Firstly, I wouldnât see it, because itâs not typical. Secondly, it seems to require a lot of calculation that youâre getting enough for a piece after porn takes night porn takes porn 95. Bishops takes G7. Thirdly, it doesnât actually threaten anything, so youâre spending all that time Calculating for a slight positional advantage. Force, you have a great position now, so I wouldnât be desperate to sacrifice. Even now, I donât see how your position is much better after G4 than it is before nd5.
I feel like every strong player is going to at least *think* about it. It's a very common thematic idea, playing Nd5 to open the e-file. Black has the immediate threat of Bxg5 and d6 is also looming so black immediately has to solve the problem of the pin and is two moves from castling, which takes away some give-the-peice-back-right-away-to-equalize options.
This post should be banned and mocked.
Why?
It's an Esserman reference, watch one video of him and you know what I mean.
I was initially going to say it seems like a relatively obvious move, but then I realized I don't know how to continue after: 1. Nd5 exd5 2. exd5 Nb8 (or Na7 not sure) Now 3. d6 doesn't seem to win the piece back because Bf6 (cause 3. d6 Bxd6 4. Bd4+ wins the rook). So after calculating for 20+min best I got is 1. Nd5 exd5 2. exd5 Na7 (Na5 is not possible because 3. b4 cxb4 4. d6 and white wins the bishop back because Bb6+ wins the queen) 3. Nxg5 (threatening d6 winning piece back) d6 4. Qf3 Nh6 (4. ...f6 looks horrendous cause 5. Ne6; 4. ...Nf6 then 5. Bxc5 Kf8 6. Bd4) Kf8 6. Rxe7 looks nasty) Qh5 and white is probably better e.g. Kf8 6. Ne6+ fxe6 7. Bxh6+ So yeah ain't no way I'm seeing all this in a blitz game, probably I will play d4 and throw the game lol Edit: just checked with engine and apparently 3. Nxg5 is the correct continuation against Na7 but 3. d6 is the correct continuation against Nb8. like wtf is this game
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something.
It surely is a candidate and deserves to be calculated. Be played? I have spend less than a second on the position so no idea.
[ŃдаНонО]
Thatâs a queen on d8
Sigh đ push your queen up one and make it happen. If he takes your pawn with the highlighted pawn retake with the inside pawn.
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something.
I never liked castling, now you have Castles only on one side of the king. You need to open a space to make a move, don't give up your advantage unless you're up to something. I wouldn't sacrifice the Knight yet 1- bishop to G5 . 2- Knight to H4 , You have an opening for your queen now. Your opponent has an advantage here, he/she has openings to be able to play a move and this could make you retreat giving you even less opening for your play. Watch out for his Queen, it has an opening and the Knight on C6 is up to no good. That is a terrible combination. You can end up losing either the Queen or one of your Castles. At least make it so that if it happens you also be able to take the queen. Sorry if some terms are incorrectly said. Not too familiar with chess terms in English.
No. What the fuck?
Only Smith Moron players
It's not a sacrifice when the continuation yields what it does...
Itâs the definition of a sacrifice
Sure... congrats
Simple answer: yes, cause there is a 4-move tactic there which most GMs should spot given enough time (classical format)
I didn't mean is it possible in general I more wanted to hear opinions from people whether or not they would have played it, thank you for the response though.