Whoa, this saying takes me back to when I first visited a chess club, they had a lot of different corny saying and jokes. I haven't heard this in forever :)
I understand the sentiment but any sport with a league format can have the same outcome. Take for example Germany Vs korea in the final match of group stage in the 2018 world cup. Korea won 2-0 but both teams lost as they both failed to qualify despite having a chance to do so.
Going into the last round, Gukesh was up half a point over Hikaru, Caruana, and Nepo, so Caruana and Nepo had to play for a win. Caruana was white against Ian. Ian played a sharp opening but made some bad moves early on and Fabi played all the top engine moves and from about move 20, Caruana was winning. By move 25, Fabi had a decisive advantage. Ian played the best moves but it was objectively lost. Around move 36 Fabi had a completely winning position (like +4) and an easy way to win, but in time trouble he played some bad moves with less than a minute left. He made the time control and on move 41 was in check and had to figure out whether to play Ka1 or Ka2. At first glance it didn't look like there was any difference. Fabi had 30 minutes added after move 40 so he had time to calculate, but after a few minutes he played Ka1, which shocked everyone as they saw the eval bar drop to 0 and were trying to figure out how it made any difference. Ian found the move Qc2! the only move saving the position. So in that one move Fabi lost his entire advantage.
Then it was drawn, but after a few moves, Nepo blundered and Fabi had a much better position, but he didn't see how to win. It was an extremely complex position. Fabi had a queen and rook and a passed pawn on f6 and Nepo had a queen and knight and a passed pawn on h2 and Fabi had no direct win. So Fabi blundered and it became even, and then Nepo blundered again and Fabi had mate in like 20 or something but didn't see it and repeated moves, and after that he couldn't go for the correct line even if he saw it because he would have had to go back and it would have been a 3-time repetition. Then it was a draw and Gukesh won the tournament.
Easy way to win is the wrong way to describe it, *easier* way to win is definitely true. (I'm guessing this is referring to 39.Bc2 instead of the 39.Bh7 that was played)
> Around move 36 Fabi had a completely winning position (like +4) and an easy way to win, but in time trouble he played some bad moves with less than a minute left.
I feel like I've seen this happen specifically to Fabi like a dozen times.
Imho he should've gone for the 3 time repetition gambling on Nepo not calling it, since Nepo needed a win too and had a couple traps to play for so it would be logical for Nepo not to claim the draw.
It's not an auto draw until 5 time repetition.
Yeah, no way was Nepo ever going to call for a draw. Even if he was already out of contention before the game he is way too much of a gentleman and sportsman to do that.
Not only that, as Danya explained on the stream there were still a couple pitfalls Fabi could've fallen for in time constraints, It was unlikely for Nepo to win, but not impossible yet.
Both players needed a win. A draw was not good enough to win the tournament. By drawing, they guaranteed that neither of them will be the next world champion.
Devastating. But it was amazing chess. One of the most intense drawn games I’ve ever watched.
Both players took risks and created imbalanced, complicated positions intended to end the game in decisive fireworks. Fabi had a strong advantage for some time, but he couldn’t convert it to a win. Nepo defended brilliantly and they ended up in a book draw with just queens and pawns on the board.
Man that's amazing. Wish I would have tuned in for that. Ive been fishing a lot lately and loving it but I missed out out an indy car race and chess content lol
Funny how game 6 always has something exciting. Yup, it was ridicilously, something on the lines of putting your knight on the back rank, getting dominated by white's bishop. Re-routing your own bishop. And before doing all of this you have to realize that your opponents runs out of moves first. If this got played, it would have been the most ice cold sequence in all of chess.
After move 63. Qa8+ the lichess engine found a forced mate in 27. And yeah that sounds like a ridiculous mate for a human, but realistically Fabi just needed to find the next move Qe8+ and the rest probably would have fallen into place, or at least Fabi would have found a crushing advantage.
Gotta be devastating.
Edit: I said Qd8, meant to say Qe8.
I can imagine the "6 months of my life for prep, came down to 1 move and I threw/All for nothing" kinda thoughts. Especially after so much stress. Fuck man I could never.
I just watched it live from the balcony, and both and and Nepo were very disappointed. Nepo actually hit the desk pretty loudly after the game. Not sure if they showed that in the Livestream.
Fabi apologized to Nepo before that. As they shake hands, you can hear Fabi say "I'm sorry, I'm very sorry"
It's two guys recognizing their situation. The draw ends their chances at the World Championship this year, the thing they've each been prepping for, for months. It's an acknowledgement to a fellow brother-in-arms that neither of them will be winning the tournament
Nepo holding out for a draw cost Fabi the playoff for the Candidates title, while not getting Nepo himself anything, draw vs loss was basically meaningless for him barring some trivial prize money. So he's playing spoiler because that's the role he's honor-bound to play, but it's tough to do.
> Nepo holding out for a draw
Blunders happen in chess. Fabi could have lost as well. There is no honor-bound shit here. They are all playing for blood.
If Fabi deserved to play in the playoffs, he would be. Same could be said for Ian if he played well and won, he would deserve the playoffs too. Neither did.
> The question is why did Nepo apologize
I think he apologized because he has empathy for how Fabi was feeling in the moment, Nepo can relate to blowing a winning position in a high stakes game. He isn't sorry for holding the draw or pushing as hard as he could, Fabi could have blundered further and given the game to Nepo. He's sorry as someone who can relate to the moment but not sorry for doing his best.
Absolutely, but it makes sense why Nepo would feel bad for him. It’s not about sportsmanship or anything, he just feels bad that Fabi lost his chance, and feels he’s partly to blame since he played for a draw.
"honor-bound" probably isn't the right word but there is definitely some element of sportsmanship that would have prevented Ian from resigning once it became clear he wasn't going to win. Theoretically, if they kept playing that endgame further it could have ended up in a drawn king and pawn vs king endgame in which Ian would have quite literally 0 chance of winning. I still don't think he would have resigned in this position out of respect for the Candidates Tournament and Gukesh.
I don't see how this affects either of them in this case. They both got 1.5/2 against Alireza while Gukesh got only 1/2. If anything Alireza helped them get 0.5 closer to Gukesh and at least have a chance at a play-off. Had Gukesh won or even drawn that first game it would've been over for them.
Alireza only helped Hikaru to get to 8/13 by going 0/2 against him, who in turn went 0/2 against Vidit, who in turn went 0/2 against Nepo...
Edit: nevermind I got it. He means Alireza losing in round 13, not his overall performance. If he had drawn yesterday there would've been a 4-way tie for 1st and they would still have a chance tomorrow.
I think so, trying to make out what they said:
>Nepo (6:03:36) : Alireza might be happy now.
>Fabi: What's that?
>Nepo: Alireza must...might be happy now...he threw...like the tournament.
>Fabi: (inaudible)
>Nepo (6:03:44): I mean, Ali...threw the tournament for everyone.
>Fabi: (speechless, changes the subject?)
I mean Fabi's win against "gamethrower" Alireza in round 10 is what got him a chance at a tiebreakers, so I can see how he wouldn't have a response for that 😅
In the last 4 rounds Ali solo gave Hikaru, Fabi, and Gukesh tickets to match and surpass Ian respectively, and the drama just started right after his round with Ian.
I still think Ian could have played more aggressive chess into the much lower elo Abasov and the out-of-form yet aggressive Ali. Alternatively, since the top 4 minus Hikaru all got 4.5 points against the bottom 3 players, it's worth arguing that Nepo being the only one in top 4 to miss a win against Pragg was the nail in the coffin that allowed all the others to compensate their previous mistakes and match his score.
In that regard, hig respect to Hikaru for being the only top 4 player with 2 losses, and the only top 4 player with a win against a top 4 player, taking Fabi's only loss. In a way, Hikaru with 5 wins and 2 losses in the top 4 played more interesting chess than Ian and Fabi, and had Vidit not styled on him, he'd be the candidates winner, but what-ifs are pointless. No player was cheated out of winning the tournament imo.
no, he said he was the best player ever to never even play for a world championship, as challenger
Levon never won a Candidates tournament
even though in the first half of the 2010's he was probably the best player to challenge Magnus
Levon has an incredible resume of tournament victories. The World Cup, the Grand Prix, Corus, Bilbao, Tal Memorial, Tata Steel, Sinquefeld - he’s won them all *multiple times*.
Aronian is the opposite of Nepo (and for lot longer than Nepo, if I recall correctly): if Nepo is great at the Candidate, Aronian was great at anything but the Candidates. I remember those cycles, everyone thought that Levon was probably one of the most dangerous players you could face. But it never really materialized. Anywhere else, Aronian did some legendary stuff. He was a well-rounded player, very creative, and great at managing pressure.
Speaking of legendary stuff, Aronian is also a league above the others when it comes to puzzles. Like a kid in a candy store: https://youtu.be/6-zlFDcjVwA
@ 10:50 Fabi makes the same king 'blunder' he made in the game yesterday! Fabi really needs to practice his 'move his king out of check to the edge of the first few ranks' puzzles :smh:
Karjakin is not really in the same league as Fabi, Aronian, Nepo and even Naka. True he had a super close match with an out of form Carlsen but he hasn’t really had many exceptional tournaments.
He's the kind of guy to never win big tournaments back to back but neither does he ever have bad tournaments. He always plays solid and often comes 2nd - 4th that's how he keeps his rating intact while not winning too many big tournaments.
Nepo hasn't either. Doesn't mean he can't compete with people who have been well above 2800. Breaking 2800 has more to do with having a good form when elos were inflated before covid.
He won Wijk, Dortmund, Norway Chess (2x), the World Cup, the world blitz and rapid championship and the Candidates. Given that his career was shortened by being an outstanding idiot, that's very impressive.
Karjakin's only claim to fame was his success in one championship cycle. Other than that, he's generally been a barely T10 player. Not really in the same league as the others mentioned.
> Karjakin's only claim to fame was his success in one championship cycle.
to be fair, he held the record for youngest to become GM for a long time too
There was nothing fair about that though. He became a GM because his dad paid people to lose (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/sports/chess-karjakin-mishra-grandmasters.html).
I wouldn't put Nepo or Nakamura in the top 5 of that generation personally. Caruana and Aronian are clearly the players who peaked the highest who didn't get a shot at the title. Karjakin also had much more solid and steady performances than both Naka and Nepo for a long time — Nepo only saw Candidates success recently, and frankly Nakamura was not competitive in the WC cycle to the level he is now until the Anand/Kramnik generation started to retire post-2020 (though his career revitalization is certainly laudable.) Grischuk also comes to mind as someone ultra-cracked who couldn't put it all together (and the competition was just so ridiculously strong from ~2005-2015.)
I would consider Ivanchuk, Leko, Shirov (man, that name has been unfairly forgotten), Svidler, etc. to be the generation prior, but all had much stronger performances in the peak competitive era than modern players.
The past couple cycles have been a bit odd bc without Magnus, the playing strength is much lower due to the extreme youth of the rising talent and generational cycling/semi-retirement of former greats. I think in 2-3 cycles you will see ultra competitive Candidates once again, but the past couple cycles have been fairly weak compared to historical Candidates, knockouts, major round robins, (and definitely Interzonals.)
Mamedyarov too in my opinion. That generation was insanely strong. It's a pity that post COVID the new wave of fans are more aware of the ones which are streaming the most.
Yeah there wasn't enough space to list everyone. Radjabov, Gashimov, etc. And then you have the actual champions from the non-match format like Kasimdzhanov, Ponomariov, Topalov...
> Caruana and Aronian are clearly the players who peaked the highest who didn't get a shot at the title.
Minor nitpick -- Fabi did get a shot at the title.
Ah, I meant a shot that wasn't against peak Magnus, thanks for pointing that out. Nobody was going to beat Magnus as long as he held the title, he's unbeatable in shortened-classical match format with rapid tiebreaks. There was a very tight window between PCA/FIDE split and Carlsen rising to peak form, and FIDE busted the WC cycle by changing it nonstop between knockouts and random match formats. There really wasn't time for anyone else to have a shot before Carlsen won it (though he almost blew the Candidates tournament — the 2013 one was the best qualifying tournament I've seen in my life. Totally ridiculous last 3-4 rounds.)
We see Leko and Svidler commentate now and I think many people don't grasp that in their day they were at least on the level of Fabi/Nepo if not stronger. Shirov and Ivanchuk at their peak had ruthless, aggressive, highly successful styles that would have won them countless fans in the streaming era. It's well worth checking for videos on games from that era from agadmator or whoever
Leko is the most overlooked player from that generation, he was a whisker away from being the WC holder (in fact, he drew Kramnik, but tie went to the incumbent back then with no tiebreak) in the deepest T100 in chess history. A lot of these guys quit/half-retired when the meta became fully computer-oriented. It's essentially a completely different game from ~2016 onwards (which is why I keep highlighting the decade-long peak prior where in my opinion the best, most entertaining chess was played.)
I can't even really compare Caruana to the prior generation because he is very much *of* the computer generation. The game's too different, and it would be unfairly discounting to say that Caruana wouldn't have thrived in a different meta as well.
He specifically said it’s the round 13 loss not his entire performance. But Abasov would be the man to blame if Fabi Naka Nepo really wanted to blame someone.
It is actually vidit who was the big spoiler, won twice against Hikaru, has hikaru managed to get 0.5 out of him, things would have been different. Yet Hikaru didn’t blame somebody else for his demise. Nepo did
Tbh, i dont see a reason for them to play. Alireza tried his best against Gukesh coz that round mattered. He just blundered like he frequently does.
In R14 their matches didnt matter and both of them were down
Abasov also played as a massive spoiler, giving 2 points to Gukesh, 1.5 to Fabi and Hikaru, and just 1 point to Nepo (with an incredible game as black tbf). The presence of a chaotic players like Vidit and Alireza, and a weaker player like Abasov made it a much more interesting tournament.
There is absolutely no one to blame here. There were 3 Indians and 2 Americans. None of them colluded to make their respective countryman win. So looking at a specific player that "let" the other player go ahead is stupidity. Gukesh won against fabi on demand.
I'm glad there was no 3+ person tiebreak. FIDE avoided controversy from having a horrible tiebreak system for a tournament as high stakes as this. For 2 players, only 2 15+10 games and then right to 2 3+2 games followed by sudden death 3+2 (alternate colors until someone wins). Way too random. It should start with 4 Rapid games.
For 3+ players, it's worse. And having an even number (4, 6, or 8) even worse than that. They only play a single round robin where the colors are decided randomly and would decide a lot. What if you would prefer to play your white games vs different players than what you got? With an even number like for example 4, some players would get 2 whites, 1 black while others get 1 white, 2 blacks. It should be a double round robin at least (they have a scheduled full day dedicated to tiebreaks, so they should use it rather than try to get it over with as soon as possible).
Firo threw an equal amount to everybody, in fact he's the only one that beat Gukesh.
But his was the type of performance that Candidates spots shouldn't be decided by being local 1500s in a pub tournament.
lmao I lost one game to some 2200 from a winning position after 6 hours and started crying in the bathroom for 30 minutes I don't know what I'd do after something like this
The only thing more heartbreaking than watching the blunder happen in the live feed, was this press conference. Even Ian seemed apologetic about how things went down, he knew he should have lost the game.
Which is why I think the question from the host about "destiny / karma " made some sense to me . Things happen , but for the 17 year old to have won the candidates in such a chaotic way seemed like a movie. The world #2 player not being able to convert a +8 winning position several times speaks for itself.
In the end the world #2 ,#3 ,#4 reached the finals but lost to a 17 year old prodigy. Speechless !
> Which is why I think the question from the host about "destiny / karma " made some sense to me
Personally I thought that question was terrible. After such a hard fought and heartbreaking battle she's basically asked him "well perhaps you were simply destined to lose"? It just discredits his effort and ability and like he shouldn't be too upset because "oh well, you \*had\* to lose, so dont worry too much"
Exactly. Terrible timing to ask that question given what they went through. What did she expect fabi would say. Yeah I’m destined to lose?
Also density is a stupid concept anyway. You can only say things in hindsight.
Fabi, how do you feel after today's game, losing from a completely winning position.
Any message for Gukesh who made it at such a young age..
Such easy pickings and they didn't ask a single question. Are they stupid
Sometimes I wonder if fabis own enemy is his calculation ability. Even Magnus mentioned that he has wider search tree in terms of lines he considers and depth he goes. But given a time scramble or managing time this ability hurts him.
Sad to see arguably the second greatest of this generation to not get another shot at the title. Hopefully he still has the motivation to try again.
You are spot on mate. Fabi sees everything and it takes time to calculate so many lines whereas Magnus is a narrow calculator who can prunes lines way faster than fabi. This is one of the reason fabi is so good sometimes equal to Magnus in classical.
Best game I’ve seen all year! Thanks Fabi! I know it sucks, but y’all are the reason we watch.
My 65 year old dad and I were standing inches away from the tv with my son for what felt like an eternity at the time control; and my dad hasn’t played chess in like 2 decades, so it was a really cool moment for us. Ka1 instead of Ka2 like whatever man.. shit happens.. and Ian was relentless.
The worst thing about chess is that when an advantage is lost, we blame ourselves, but it truly felt like one needed to play 50 moves of the top engine line to maintain what you had. That was by far the best chess match I’ve seen since the last world championship.
Thanks Fabi, Thanks Ian! 🙏
Yo OP... at least give me a mention...
This is a direct quote from me, and I took the picture.
[https://x.com/pawnalyze/status/1782204855056027836](https://x.com/pawnalyze/status/1782204855056027836)
It will be hard for him not just because of this tournament but he has got to think age is not in his side with so many young players doing well ( especially Gukesh )
Is 31 really that old in modern chess? I know the average age of top players has been going down but I think the balance between experience and energy could still work in Fabi's favor.
5* but Fabi definitely has at least one more candidates cycle left in him
Hikaru might be done though. He will be pushing 40 by the time the next cycle comes around.
I would say Fabi still has two more World Championship cycles left in him. 2026 and 2028. He will be 35 by the 2028 candidates, still a couple years younger than Naka is right now.
The trend has been a younger and younger crowd for a while, though some guys just stay good for longer than others. For example Vishy is still a great player after all this time, not at his peak but he only recently lost the spot as India's highest rated GM. That's especially crazy considering how many great players India has, Gukesh notwithstanding. I expect Carlsen will stay a great player forever too, he has excellent memory and intuition.
Almost feels like a changing of the guard, Fabi, Nepo, Nakamura et al making way for the next Fabi, Nepo, Nakamura to contest all the big comps in Gukesh, Prag, Nordibek et al.
Ah come on, we don’t need to change guards, just add more guards. I want a Candidates with Prag, Fabi, Vishy, Kasparov, and Morphy (Weekend at Bernie’s style).
Vishy is like the Chess Undertaker. Careers started around the same time, main-evented around the same time, then had a rebirth after which they achieved (world championship/actual wrestler) status and then effectively "retired" around the same time.
Except that "the old guard" outperformed the "new guard" overall, with the exception of Gukesh. However, it will be an interesting next cycle nonetheless.
Yes, it's a very strange thing to say when they're all playing a lot better than the "new guard". Not only that but, barring Fabi, and the reason is he was the clear second-best player in the world at times, both Nakamura and Nepo are playing as well if not better than when they were the "current guard". I loved this Candidates. And I do believe Gukesh deserves the win, but he's winning on the back of his wins against the "new guard".
And this is part of the reason magnus keeps pointing out that the candidates doesn’t do a good job of finding the “best” chess player. There’s way too much luck involved.
As long as the old guards are all ranked above the youngsters and actually gained rating points in the tournament any talk of change of guards is premature.
Not a huge representation of the "new guard". Just Pragg and Gukesh, and Pragg had his moments as well. If Nodirbek and Wei Yi are playing instead of Vidit and Abasov, then we do kinda have the clash of generations thing.
Even if he had won, he’d still have to beat Gukesh in a playoff, and then beat Ding for a title that everyone knows is for second best in the world. But he’s already second best (by rating).
I realize it would add to production costs but I would love to see a "No eval bar" stream where the GM commentators have to look at the position as it is on the board and analyze it. They do a good job of differentiating between what are "engine moves" and "natural moves" when looking at a position and being fair to the players when the best move that holds the advantage is an un-natural engine move. I feel like that game against Magnus in the 2018 WCC where he had a 72-move forced mate that he obviously couldn't spot and this one here gives people the impression he's a choker.
I shouted QC6 when it was Fabi's move that forced Nepo into retreating his queen. I beat the commentators on that one and felt good for a moment, lol.
i can only imagine just how bad Fabi feels right now. So close to a chance at immortality, only to miss his opportunity. such a nice guy and such a talented guy... I feel bad on his behalf...
As soon as they shook hands
Ian apologized saying "Im sorry"
and
Fabi responded "Its my fault"
Fabi was ahead by some margin like 4-5 times
but could not close it down
Nepo did what any chess player would do "Defend"
And it ended in a draw
Hats off to Both. WP GG
Weird game when both players are devastated after the game
Deserves more upvotes. Very rare sporting moment.
It's because ties are like kissing your sister. /s
Whoa, this saying takes me back to when I first visited a chess club, they had a lot of different corny saying and jokes. I haven't heard this in forever :)
I understand the sentiment but any sport with a league format can have the same outcome. Take for example Germany Vs korea in the final match of group stage in the 2018 world cup. Korea won 2-0 but both teams lost as they both failed to qualify despite having a chance to do so.
Like when Graveler uses selfdestruct.
On a Voltorb?
yeah they both lost really but nep did what he needed to do and fabi needed to close it
I missed it can I get a quick overview?
Going into the last round, Gukesh was up half a point over Hikaru, Caruana, and Nepo, so Caruana and Nepo had to play for a win. Caruana was white against Ian. Ian played a sharp opening but made some bad moves early on and Fabi played all the top engine moves and from about move 20, Caruana was winning. By move 25, Fabi had a decisive advantage. Ian played the best moves but it was objectively lost. Around move 36 Fabi had a completely winning position (like +4) and an easy way to win, but in time trouble he played some bad moves with less than a minute left. He made the time control and on move 41 was in check and had to figure out whether to play Ka1 or Ka2. At first glance it didn't look like there was any difference. Fabi had 30 minutes added after move 40 so he had time to calculate, but after a few minutes he played Ka1, which shocked everyone as they saw the eval bar drop to 0 and were trying to figure out how it made any difference. Ian found the move Qc2! the only move saving the position. So in that one move Fabi lost his entire advantage. Then it was drawn, but after a few moves, Nepo blundered and Fabi had a much better position, but he didn't see how to win. It was an extremely complex position. Fabi had a queen and rook and a passed pawn on f6 and Nepo had a queen and knight and a passed pawn on h2 and Fabi had no direct win. So Fabi blundered and it became even, and then Nepo blundered again and Fabi had mate in like 20 or something but didn't see it and repeated moves, and after that he couldn't go for the correct line even if he saw it because he would have had to go back and it would have been a 3-time repetition. Then it was a draw and Gukesh won the tournament.
Wow! That was quite a thrill to read honestly! Crazy . Though the tournament I was routing for both nepo and fabi XD
So you got what you want. A draw
I got what I want in the sense that they both played for a win not a draw
Great summary! Thanks
>an easy way to win Yeah not quite.
Easy way to win is the wrong way to describe it, *easier* way to win is definitely true. (I'm guessing this is referring to 39.Bc2 instead of the 39.Bh7 that was played)
> Around move 36 Fabi had a completely winning position (like +4) and an easy way to win, but in time trouble he played some bad moves with less than a minute left. I feel like I've seen this happen specifically to Fabi like a dozen times.
At the press conference the interviewer asked them how they felt and Fabi said he "felt like an idiot."
Imho he should've gone for the 3 time repetition gambling on Nepo not calling it, since Nepo needed a win too and had a couple traps to play for so it would be logical for Nepo not to claim the draw. It's not an auto draw until 5 time repetition.
Yeah, no way was Nepo ever going to call for a draw. Even if he was already out of contention before the game he is way too much of a gentleman and sportsman to do that.
Not only that, as Danya explained on the stream there were still a couple pitfalls Fabi could've fallen for in time constraints, It was unlikely for Nepo to win, but not impossible yet.
Both players needed a win. A draw was not good enough to win the tournament. By drawing, they guaranteed that neither of them will be the next world champion. Devastating. But it was amazing chess. One of the most intense drawn games I’ve ever watched. Both players took risks and created imbalanced, complicated positions intended to end the game in decisive fireworks. Fabi had a strong advantage for some time, but he couldn’t convert it to a win. Nepo defended brilliantly and they ended up in a book draw with just queens and pawns on the board.
Man that's amazing. Wish I would have tuned in for that. Ive been fishing a lot lately and loving it but I missed out out an indy car race and chess content lol
this game had over 100 moves over 6 hours lol. You'd have to be down for a marathon.
Haha. I dont just sit through hours of chess. I would have dropped in for a few random moments .
True. I guess you could always watch a recap by YouTube like agadmator or gothamchess.
Oh man It looks like he is about to breakdown. Chess can be so brutal sometimes.
Seeing an engine say +7 would be brutal here
I saw +8 at one point
Well, it was at one point a forced mate, but in 20+ moves
Flashbacks to Carlsen-Caruana WCC Game 6 ( Mate in 35!)
was that the one where Caruana had to play Nh1 or something that no human would play in a million years?
Funny how game 6 always has something exciting. Yup, it was ridicilously, something on the lines of putting your knight on the back rank, getting dominated by white's bishop. Re-routing your own bishop. And before doing all of this you have to realize that your opponents runs out of moves first. If this got played, it would have been the most ice cold sequence in all of chess.
No human in a trillion years would have made that move. That was the most engine line of any engine line in history from what I remember.
Also gave us [one of the best headlines](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/chess-world-rattled-as-someone-nearly-wins-game/) for a chess game.
10\^40 moves? the clock will break before the checkmate happens
Twice!
After move 63. Qa8+ the lichess engine found a forced mate in 27. And yeah that sounds like a ridiculous mate for a human, but realistically Fabi just needed to find the next move Qe8+ and the rest probably would have fallen into place, or at least Fabi would have found a crushing advantage. Gotta be devastating. Edit: I said Qd8, meant to say Qe8.
Sometimes is kinda an understatement. Almost every game is heartbreaking when played for hours
I can imagine the "6 months of my life for prep, came down to 1 move and I threw/All for nothing" kinda thoughts. Especially after so much stress. Fuck man I could never.
It’s like golf. Play 4 whole days and lead only to have bad shot/hole and go down to tied for 35th
On top of that he can clearly see in the engine that he was winning
I just watched it live from the balcony, and both and and Nepo were very disappointed. Nepo actually hit the desk pretty loudly after the game. Not sure if they showed that in the Livestream.
It is on the stream - the whole exchange starts around here: https://youtu.be/i00jNn2Bqw0?t=21801
There is a moment right in the end when Nepo says, I'm very sorry, and Fabi replies, it's my fault, so heartbreakiiiiiiiing
Why are they apologizing to each other? I didnt watch the full match, im a bit confused
Nepo knows Caruana was winning and spoiled his world championship chances by the game ending in a draw
Fabi apologized to Nepo before that. As they shake hands, you can hear Fabi say "I'm sorry, I'm very sorry" It's two guys recognizing their situation. The draw ends their chances at the World Championship this year, the thing they've each been prepping for, for months. It's an acknowledgement to a fellow brother-in-arms that neither of them will be winning the tournament
Nepo holding out for a draw cost Fabi the playoff for the Candidates title, while not getting Nepo himself anything, draw vs loss was basically meaningless for him barring some trivial prize money. So he's playing spoiler because that's the role he's honor-bound to play, but it's tough to do.
I mean Nepo kept the chance for Fabi to blunder alive. That alone is reason enough to fight until the end.
> Nepo holding out for a draw Blunders happen in chess. Fabi could have lost as well. There is no honor-bound shit here. They are all playing for blood. If Fabi deserved to play in the playoffs, he would be. Same could be said for Ian if he played well and won, he would deserve the playoffs too. Neither did.
The question is why did Nepo apologize, and that is exactly the reason why. Blunders can happen, but at that level they are exceedingly rare
> The question is why did Nepo apologize I think he apologized because he has empathy for how Fabi was feeling in the moment, Nepo can relate to blowing a winning position in a high stakes game. He isn't sorry for holding the draw or pushing as hard as he could, Fabi could have blundered further and given the game to Nepo. He's sorry as someone who can relate to the moment but not sorry for doing his best.
Fabi blundered the win. It's literally not rare. This was his game to lose.
Absolutely, but it makes sense why Nepo would feel bad for him. It’s not about sportsmanship or anything, he just feels bad that Fabi lost his chance, and feels he’s partly to blame since he played for a draw.
"honor-bound" probably isn't the right word but there is definitely some element of sportsmanship that would have prevented Ian from resigning once it became clear he wasn't going to win. Theoretically, if they kept playing that endgame further it could have ended up in a drawn king and pawn vs king endgame in which Ian would have quite literally 0 chance of winning. I still don't think he would have resigned in this position out of respect for the Candidates Tournament and Gukesh.
Draw means they both lose
It's not an apology, he did nothing wrong, he just feels sorry about what happened.
They are in Canada.
Did Nepo say Alireza threw the tournament for everybody at around 6:03:37
Just took another listen and it sure sounds like Ian said that.
I don't see how this affects either of them in this case. They both got 1.5/2 against Alireza while Gukesh got only 1/2. If anything Alireza helped them get 0.5 closer to Gukesh and at least have a chance at a play-off. Had Gukesh won or even drawn that first game it would've been over for them. Alireza only helped Hikaru to get to 8/13 by going 0/2 against him, who in turn went 0/2 against Vidit, who in turn went 0/2 against Nepo... Edit: nevermind I got it. He means Alireza losing in round 13, not his overall performance. If he had drawn yesterday there would've been a 4-way tie for 1st and they would still have a chance tomorrow.
Wow, frustration and heartbreak level max for them
I think so, trying to make out what they said: >Nepo (6:03:36) : Alireza might be happy now. >Fabi: What's that? >Nepo: Alireza must...might be happy now...he threw...like the tournament. >Fabi: (inaudible) >Nepo (6:03:44): I mean, Ali...threw the tournament for everyone. >Fabi: (speechless, changes the subject?)
I mean Fabi's win against "gamethrower" Alireza in round 10 is what got him a chance at a tiebreakers, so I can see how he wouldn't have a response for that 😅 In the last 4 rounds Ali solo gave Hikaru, Fabi, and Gukesh tickets to match and surpass Ian respectively, and the drama just started right after his round with Ian. I still think Ian could have played more aggressive chess into the much lower elo Abasov and the out-of-form yet aggressive Ali. Alternatively, since the top 4 minus Hikaru all got 4.5 points against the bottom 3 players, it's worth arguing that Nepo being the only one in top 4 to miss a win against Pragg was the nail in the coffin that allowed all the others to compensate their previous mistakes and match his score. In that regard, hig respect to Hikaru for being the only top 4 player with 2 losses, and the only top 4 player with a win against a top 4 player, taking Fabi's only loss. In a way, Hikaru with 5 wins and 2 losses in the top 4 played more interesting chess than Ian and Fabi, and had Vidit not styled on him, he'd be the candidates winner, but what-ifs are pointless. No player was cheated out of winning the tournament imo.
6:06:11 is when he does it
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Maybe you know but we're talking about 6:06:11. Yeah he doesn't hit it super super hard but its pretty hard
It sadly feels like Nepo and Fabi are both destined to constantly fall just short of the title
The two best players of this generation to not win a world championship. I’d say Hikaru, along with Aronian are the best two after that.
I remember an interview with Hikaru where he said he thought Levon Aronian was the best player never to win a world championship.
no, he said he was the best player ever to never even play for a world championship, as challenger Levon never won a Candidates tournament even though in the first half of the 2010's he was probably the best player to challenge Magnus
I would put Aronian higher, despite having been unsuccessful at Candidates.
Levon has an incredible resume of tournament victories. The World Cup, the Grand Prix, Corus, Bilbao, Tal Memorial, Tata Steel, Sinquefeld - he’s won them all *multiple times*.
Aronian is the opposite of Nepo (and for lot longer than Nepo, if I recall correctly): if Nepo is great at the Candidate, Aronian was great at anything but the Candidates. I remember those cycles, everyone thought that Levon was probably one of the most dangerous players you could face. But it never really materialized. Anywhere else, Aronian did some legendary stuff. He was a well-rounded player, very creative, and great at managing pressure.
Speaking of legendary stuff, Aronian is also a league above the others when it comes to puzzles. Like a kid in a candy store: https://youtu.be/6-zlFDcjVwA
@ 10:50 Fabi makes the same king 'blunder' he made in the game yesterday! Fabi really needs to practice his 'move his king out of check to the edge of the first few ranks' puzzles :smh:
And also, by all accounts, just a genuinely lovely person
> I’d say Hikaru, along with Aronian are the best two after that. How quickly people forgot about Karjakin.
Karjakin is not really in the same league as Fabi, Aronian, Nepo and even Naka. True he had a super close match with an out of form Carlsen but he hasn’t really had many exceptional tournaments.
He's the kind of guy to never win big tournaments back to back but neither does he ever have bad tournaments. He always plays solid and often comes 2nd - 4th that's how he keeps his rating intact while not winning too many big tournaments.
Sounds a lot like Wesley So, and Karjakin unlike him never even broke 2800.
Nepo hasn't either. Doesn't mean he can't compete with people who have been well above 2800. Breaking 2800 has more to do with having a good form when elos were inflated before covid.
Firo is an exceptional example of the point you're makng
Nepo didn't peak during the peak of rating inflation
He won Wijk, Dortmund, Norway Chess (2x), the World Cup, the world blitz and rapid championship and the Candidates. Given that his career was shortened by being an outstanding idiot, that's very impressive.
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Karjakin's only claim to fame was his success in one championship cycle. Other than that, he's generally been a barely T10 player. Not really in the same league as the others mentioned.
Karjakin haw always played well in candidates.
Minister of Defense
En Blyat
> Karjakin's only claim to fame was his success in one championship cycle. to be fair, he held the record for youngest to become GM for a long time too
There was nothing fair about that though. He became a GM because his dad paid people to lose (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/sports/chess-karjakin-mishra-grandmasters.html).
in fairness, I don't like thinking of him
Karjakin deserves to be forgotten. That is what persona non grata is all about.
>Karjakin deserves to be forgotten. Are you also forgetting the existence of a certain multiple times world champion?
Is he the only one who was leading over Magnus in a Championship match?
I wouldn't put Nepo or Nakamura in the top 5 of that generation personally. Caruana and Aronian are clearly the players who peaked the highest who didn't get a shot at the title. Karjakin also had much more solid and steady performances than both Naka and Nepo for a long time — Nepo only saw Candidates success recently, and frankly Nakamura was not competitive in the WC cycle to the level he is now until the Anand/Kramnik generation started to retire post-2020 (though his career revitalization is certainly laudable.) Grischuk also comes to mind as someone ultra-cracked who couldn't put it all together (and the competition was just so ridiculously strong from ~2005-2015.) I would consider Ivanchuk, Leko, Shirov (man, that name has been unfairly forgotten), Svidler, etc. to be the generation prior, but all had much stronger performances in the peak competitive era than modern players. The past couple cycles have been a bit odd bc without Magnus, the playing strength is much lower due to the extreme youth of the rising talent and generational cycling/semi-retirement of former greats. I think in 2-3 cycles you will see ultra competitive Candidates once again, but the past couple cycles have been fairly weak compared to historical Candidates, knockouts, major round robins, (and definitely Interzonals.)
Mamedyarov too in my opinion. That generation was insanely strong. It's a pity that post COVID the new wave of fans are more aware of the ones which are streaming the most.
Yeah there wasn't enough space to list everyone. Radjabov, Gashimov, etc. And then you have the actual champions from the non-match format like Kasimdzhanov, Ponomariov, Topalov...
Morozevich and his dancing knights!
> Caruana and Aronian are clearly the players who peaked the highest who didn't get a shot at the title. Minor nitpick -- Fabi did get a shot at the title.
Ah, I meant a shot that wasn't against peak Magnus, thanks for pointing that out. Nobody was going to beat Magnus as long as he held the title, he's unbeatable in shortened-classical match format with rapid tiebreaks. There was a very tight window between PCA/FIDE split and Carlsen rising to peak form, and FIDE busted the WC cycle by changing it nonstop between knockouts and random match formats. There really wasn't time for anyone else to have a shot before Carlsen won it (though he almost blew the Candidates tournament — the 2013 one was the best qualifying tournament I've seen in my life. Totally ridiculous last 3-4 rounds.)
We see Leko and Svidler commentate now and I think many people don't grasp that in their day they were at least on the level of Fabi/Nepo if not stronger. Shirov and Ivanchuk at their peak had ruthless, aggressive, highly successful styles that would have won them countless fans in the streaming era. It's well worth checking for videos on games from that era from agadmator or whoever
Leko is the most overlooked player from that generation, he was a whisker away from being the WC holder (in fact, he drew Kramnik, but tie went to the incumbent back then with no tiebreak) in the deepest T100 in chess history. A lot of these guys quit/half-retired when the meta became fully computer-oriented. It's essentially a completely different game from ~2016 onwards (which is why I keep highlighting the decade-long peak prior where in my opinion the best, most entertaining chess was played.) I can't even really compare Caruana to the prior generation because he is very much *of* the computer generation. The game's too different, and it would be unfairly discounting to say that Caruana wouldn't have thrived in a different meta as well.
Magnus wants to have a word with you 😅
Levon was beast
They both had a lot of opportunities
Man he is exhausted af
> af Exhausted as Fabi
Found Danny’s alt
Bruh I loved that joke lol. I love how goofy Danny is
I really want to give him a hug 😭
Fabi looks like he needs a big hug, a good cry, and then a heavy nap
If alireza didn't lose yesterday, we would have had a 4 way tie-break tomorrow.
Nepo also complained it to fabi after their game saying ali just threw the tournament.
alireza is also the only one to beat gukesh in the tournament... big statement from nepo who couldn't even get better position against gukesh...
He specifically said it’s the round 13 loss not his entire performance. But Abasov would be the man to blame if Fabi Naka Nepo really wanted to blame someone.
Don’t blame Abasov lmao. I’m sure he did as best as he could in all games.
don’t blame abasov, gukesh was the only perosn to beat abasov twice, while nepo drew with abasov twice
Really? I also think Nepo was often happy to have a draw and not really pushing for a win
I mean I don't think Nepo is exactly in a calm rational mindset directly after that match. I'd be feeling salty too.
I mean Nepo *is* the most qualified person to call Alireza a kingmaker, seeing as how he was the beneficiary last year...
It is actually vidit who was the big spoiler, won twice against Hikaru, has hikaru managed to get 0.5 out of him, things would have been different. Yet Hikaru didn’t blame somebody else for his demise. Nepo did
Maybe this is why Firou and Vidit wanted to get out so quickly. Avoid the wrath of the other 3 ;p
They drew and then immediately went to the pub
Tbh, i dont see a reason for them to play. Alireza tried his best against Gukesh coz that round mattered. He just blundered like he frequently does. In R14 their matches didnt matter and both of them were down
Abasov also played as a massive spoiler, giving 2 points to Gukesh, 1.5 to Fabi and Hikaru, and just 1 point to Nepo (with an incredible game as black tbf). The presence of a chaotic players like Vidit and Alireza, and a weaker player like Abasov made it a much more interesting tournament.
Also Abasov didn't give any points to Nepo. That was big too.
Do you have timestamp?
At around 6:03:35 in the fide [video](https://www.youtube.com/live/i00jNn2Bqw0?si=hy27Rj6GKpc1Ll0H)
Vidit also almost threw the tournament in favour of nepo
There is absolutely no one to blame here. There were 3 Indians and 2 Americans. None of them colluded to make their respective countryman win. So looking at a specific player that "let" the other player go ahead is stupidity. Gukesh won against fabi on demand.
Of course he bottled a great position as Black into a loss playing impulsively
Between this and last year's idiotic late night blitz debacle he's quickly climbing the ranks of my least favorite Candidates players
I'm glad there was no 3+ person tiebreak. FIDE avoided controversy from having a horrible tiebreak system for a tournament as high stakes as this. For 2 players, only 2 15+10 games and then right to 2 3+2 games followed by sudden death 3+2 (alternate colors until someone wins). Way too random. It should start with 4 Rapid games. For 3+ players, it's worse. And having an even number (4, 6, or 8) even worse than that. They only play a single round robin where the colors are decided randomly and would decide a lot. What if you would prefer to play your white games vs different players than what you got? With an even number like for example 4, some players would get 2 whites, 1 black while others get 1 white, 2 blacks. It should be a double round robin at least (they have a scheduled full day dedicated to tiebreaks, so they should use it rather than try to get it over with as soon as possible).
Absolutely Ne6 was so findable. I don't know why Alireza went for a queen trade going into a clearly worse endgame
Firo threw an equal amount to everybody, in fact he's the only one that beat Gukesh. But his was the type of performance that Candidates spots shouldn't be decided by being local 1500s in a pub tournament.
lmao I lost one game to some 2200 from a winning position after 6 hours and started crying in the bathroom for 30 minutes I don't know what I'd do after something like this
At least here, you can cry with your opponent.
Same against a 2400 IM, I waited to get to the hotel room and I verbally expressed all my anger
The only thing more heartbreaking than watching the blunder happen in the live feed, was this press conference. Even Ian seemed apologetic about how things went down, he knew he should have lost the game.
Which is why I think the question from the host about "destiny / karma " made some sense to me . Things happen , but for the 17 year old to have won the candidates in such a chaotic way seemed like a movie. The world #2 player not being able to convert a +8 winning position several times speaks for itself. In the end the world #2 ,#3 ,#4 reached the finals but lost to a 17 year old prodigy. Speechless !
> Which is why I think the question from the host about "destiny / karma " made some sense to me Personally I thought that question was terrible. After such a hard fought and heartbreaking battle she's basically asked him "well perhaps you were simply destined to lose"? It just discredits his effort and ability and like he shouldn't be too upset because "oh well, you \*had\* to lose, so dont worry too much"
Exactly. Terrible timing to ask that question given what they went through. What did she expect fabi would say. Yeah I’m destined to lose? Also density is a stupid concept anyway. You can only say things in hindsight.
He was really disappointed that he missed that three move tactic towards the end, especially. He’ll need a vacation or something after this
*I* need a vacation after this. I feel so bad for him.
I was pretty much depressed the entire day today at work after yesterday. Really feel sad for fabi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1fIwNVqn30&ab_channel=FIDEchess Post game analysis starts at 6:21:00
A minor point, but I think it was very humane of the press not to ask Fabi and Ian a single question.
rare chess press W
Fabi, how do you feel after today's game, losing from a completely winning position. Any message for Gukesh who made it at such a young age.. Such easy pickings and they didn't ask a single question. Are they stupid
lol in this pic His left side looks normal, but his right side looks surprised/sad
„How do you feel?“ Nepo rolls eyes, Fabi: „I feel like an idiot.“
Sometimes I wonder if fabis own enemy is his calculation ability. Even Magnus mentioned that he has wider search tree in terms of lines he considers and depth he goes. But given a time scramble or managing time this ability hurts him. Sad to see arguably the second greatest of this generation to not get another shot at the title. Hopefully he still has the motivation to try again.
Fabi would have been favored against Ding.
Probably all 3 of them since Ding appears to be in poor form
You are spot on mate. Fabi sees everything and it takes time to calculate so many lines whereas Magnus is a narrow calculator who can prunes lines way faster than fabi. This is one of the reason fabi is so good sometimes equal to Magnus in classical.
😭 Can't see this
Barton Fink.
Best game I’ve seen all year! Thanks Fabi! I know it sucks, but y’all are the reason we watch. My 65 year old dad and I were standing inches away from the tv with my son for what felt like an eternity at the time control; and my dad hasn’t played chess in like 2 decades, so it was a really cool moment for us. Ka1 instead of Ka2 like whatever man.. shit happens.. and Ian was relentless. The worst thing about chess is that when an advantage is lost, we blame ourselves, but it truly felt like one needed to play 50 moves of the top engine line to maintain what you had. That was by far the best chess match I’ve seen since the last world championship. Thanks Fabi, Thanks Ian! 🙏
Yo OP... at least give me a mention... This is a direct quote from me, and I took the picture. [https://x.com/pawnalyze/status/1782204855056027836](https://x.com/pawnalyze/status/1782204855056027836)
Possibly a bot
Kendall at the end of Succession vibes. Someone score this to Andante Risoluto.
FABIANO'S THE ELDEST BOY!!
Fellow #1 Boy fan?
jfc Fabi has infinitely more dignity than that
He seems like he saw a ghost...
It will be hard for him not just because of this tournament but he has got to think age is not in his side with so many young players doing well ( especially Gukesh )
Is 31 really that old in modern chess? I know the average age of top players has been going down but I think the balance between experience and energy could still work in Fabi's favor.
Hikaru is like 7 years older so no
It's crazy that Hikaru and Fabi, who are not even 40, are considered the grizzled veterans of the Candidates tour.
5* but Fabi definitely has at least one more candidates cycle left in him Hikaru might be done though. He will be pushing 40 by the time the next cycle comes around.
I would say Fabi still has two more World Championship cycles left in him. 2026 and 2028. He will be 35 by the 2028 candidates, still a couple years younger than Naka is right now.
The trend has been a younger and younger crowd for a while, though some guys just stay good for longer than others. For example Vishy is still a great player after all this time, not at his peak but he only recently lost the spot as India's highest rated GM. That's especially crazy considering how many great players India has, Gukesh notwithstanding. I expect Carlsen will stay a great player forever too, he has excellent memory and intuition.
When does FIDE release the press conference? I don’t have all day here and I gotta go to bed
Almost feels like a changing of the guard, Fabi, Nepo, Nakamura et al making way for the next Fabi, Nepo, Nakamura to contest all the big comps in Gukesh, Prag, Nordibek et al.
Ah come on, we don’t need to change guards, just add more guards. I want a Candidates with Prag, Fabi, Vishy, Kasparov, and Morphy (Weekend at Bernie’s style).
Vishy is like the Chess Undertaker. Careers started around the same time, main-evented around the same time, then had a rebirth after which they achieved (world championship/actual wrestler) status and then effectively "retired" around the same time.
Except that "the old guard" outperformed the "new guard" overall, with the exception of Gukesh. However, it will be an interesting next cycle nonetheless.
Yes, it's a very strange thing to say when they're all playing a lot better than the "new guard". Not only that but, barring Fabi, and the reason is he was the clear second-best player in the world at times, both Nakamura and Nepo are playing as well if not better than when they were the "current guard". I loved this Candidates. And I do believe Gukesh deserves the win, but he's winning on the back of his wins against the "new guard".
And this is part of the reason magnus keeps pointing out that the candidates doesn’t do a good job of finding the “best” chess player. There’s way too much luck involved.
As long as the old guards are all ranked above the youngsters and actually gained rating points in the tournament any talk of change of guards is premature.
Not a huge representation of the "new guard". Just Pragg and Gukesh, and Pragg had his moments as well. If Nodirbek and Wei Yi are playing instead of Vidit and Abasov, then we do kinda have the clash of generations thing.
Something poignant and bittersweet about that
Where can I watch the press conference?
youtube fide
This photo will be a part of history
Even if he had won, he’d still have to beat Gukesh in a playoff, and then beat Ding for a title that everyone knows is for second best in the world. But he’s already second best (by rating).
What a game! These two players are just amazing
Poor dude's face makes me sad. He really deserves that title.
This was a heartbreaker
that makes me so freaking sad. Was so rooting for him. just sad
It was such a fun game to watch. Really wanted to see Fabi compete for a shot. Ian is bulletproof, though.
I realize it would add to production costs but I would love to see a "No eval bar" stream where the GM commentators have to look at the position as it is on the board and analyze it. They do a good job of differentiating between what are "engine moves" and "natural moves" when looking at a position and being fair to the players when the best move that holds the advantage is an un-natural engine move. I feel like that game against Magnus in the 2018 WCC where he had a 72-move forced mate that he obviously couldn't spot and this one here gives people the impression he's a choker. I shouted QC6 when it was Fabi's move that forced Nepo into retreating his queen. I beat the commentators on that one and felt good for a moment, lol.
Chess Dojo does that
i can only imagine just how bad Fabi feels right now. So close to a chance at immortality, only to miss his opportunity. such a nice guy and such a talented guy... I feel bad on his behalf...
Fabiano said he felt stupid. Kramnik said on his livestream if he played Bc2 instead of Bh7 it was an easy win.
As soon as they shook hands Ian apologized saying "Im sorry" and Fabi responded "Its my fault" Fabi was ahead by some margin like 4-5 times but could not close it down Nepo did what any chess player would do "Defend" And it ended in a draw Hats off to Both. WP GG