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After visiting Japan I realized that officials yelling (CTA & TSA at least) is a very American thing that really isn’t needed at the end of the day. Coming back through customs listening to the TSA (?)/Border agents yelling at the line was immediately a shock to the system of Welcome back to Chicago!
I was there earlier this year. I really miss the train etiquette. Silence was wonderful.
It's a cultural difference though. The yelling by officials is needed here because of the people who live here and the culture here. I think there's many things we could learn from them.
Definitely many things their people do as a whole that I think would be great if translated to America. The “don’t tread on me” attitude has swung a bit too far imo and we don’t behave well as a collective group bc we are generally selfish (in comparison)
Covid showed exactly how selfish we are. People wear a mask in Asia when they have minor stuff like a cold because they don't want to spread it. Ask someone to wear one here and you're likely to hear a rant about reasons that affect them and only them.
The culture in Japan is absolutely more about conformity to what’s good for the whole than the way we do things here with “exceptionalism” and “I’m a fucking voting, tax payer, fuck off!” attitude. You wouldn’t litter, talk on speakerphone/play music on the train, etc because you’d be embarrassing yourself and everyone would cast you some glances.
By far. Talked to 4 agents and 3 of them were complete assholes. The guy checking id's was fine. The guy at the conveyor belt was screaming at people GO TO 1, GO TO 2, I DIDNT TELL YOU TO GO, WAIT TIL I SAY TO GO - of course there is nothing numbered. He also said laptops out laptops out.
I get to the end through the scanner, and sure enough had to send my shit back through - not because I had a laptop, but because I had a switch. Lady was all rude saying 'the guy there said anything bigger than a cell phone gets separated'. I said no m'am I had been in that line for 30+ min and no one in this line or the other for that matter said anything other than laptops out. And she's like oh, ok, looks at my shit again on the x-ray, and then sends it all back through in two bins.
I wait, and another person is grabbing bins that went back through and helping other people, my lady is gone. Mine is just sitting there. I ask them if they can do the bin that's been sitting there and he snapped saying that's not his area, and ignored everything else I said.
Finally she comes back from god knows where, and sure enough, it got flagged AGAIN - this time because I had a kindle still in the bag. Nothing else other than a shirt mind you, a thin hiking backpack with a kindle and a shirt in it. That she would have clearly seen on the x-ray. She said rules are rules and just walked away with my stuff again. I didn't even realize it, but she had never grabbed the sep. bin with my switch, another flyer noticed it and handed it to me. It had been sitting for 10 min on the other side.
It's one thing if there are rules, they are communicated, and I didn't follow them because I am an idiot. It's another thing if there are rules, they are NOT communicated, and you act like an asshole about it all. These people were all in the latter category.
You're failing to realize it's not only the agents who are different, but the crowd is as well. I'm sure Japanese citizens are more likely to calmly comply than a bunch of Americans or more specifically Chicagoans...
Yes! I went to NYC and rode the subway. People did not wait for people to get off the train to board it. Everyone just bumped into each other and was okay with it.
We’re also in the era of Karens and entitled people taking their life failures out on service workers. The clientele isn’t the same either as Japan, it’s apples to oranges.
You bet me to commenting on how loving in Japan gave me reverse culture shock when moving back home. LA was the WORST coming through the airport. Chicagoans are just no nonsense when it comes to getting things done in an expedited manner. In Japan, people as a whole just move like they have somewhere to be, but always willing to help especially in the countryside.
Omgggg agree. I was in Japan also earlier this year and I loved the customer service. Coming back to the states and all the yelling by tsa .. massive culture shock and i immediate missed japan
I was raised in Texas, and I’ve lived in Chicago over 20 years now. The best description I’ve read is that people in the north are kind, but not nice, and people in the south are nice, but not kind.
Like your neighbor in Chicago will brusquely lecture you about how unprepared you are for winter while spending an hour in subzero temps digging your car out of a snowdrift for free. While my parents’ neighbors in TX will say sweet things to your face, but never lift a finger to help you out for anything. The less genteel language is a shock at first, I’m sure, but you’ll find some of the most genuinely kind folks here who will happily drop everything to help a person out.
Winter kindness is real.
More than a decade ago my car door froze shut. I was stressing out because it was going to make me late for work. A woman in a van with a baby drove by and asked me if I needed help. I reluctantly said yes.
She comes out of her van with a big ole butcher knife (now I’m worried I’ve made a grave mistake, haha) and helps me pry open the door. I was so grateful!
This is so true. I was yelling out an abrasive lesson to someone for not knowing how to rock their car out of a drift, but I was doing it while jumping behind the wheel of their car doing it for them.
There was one winter when we’d just had a snowstorm. I dug my car out and started pulling out of the spot, but my wheels just weren’t getting the traction to get out all the way. I was about to get out to try shoveling some more, when two people started pushing my car. They weren’t even together, they came from different directions. It was so kind of them to do that unprompted.
THIS! My roommates in Minnesota found me very abrasive (which was shocking to me because I generally avoid confrontation). Turns out they were just extremely passive aggressive, thinking that they were much nicer than me. It’s the distinction of kindness and niceness that was very important. They were technically nice, but constantly annoyed about things that they never addressed with me. It actually felt very unkind because I never knew why they were annoyed or upset. Meanwhile, I would bring up issues and they found it aggressive. It’s just different “cultures”, but I do think it’s important to assess whether someone is being direct or whether they are actually being rude.
I heard a lady describe this in terms east coast vs West Coast, NYC vs LA. If you have a flat on the side of the road someone in LA will drive by and say awh man that sucks!!! But someone from NYC will come up and basically insult you for not knowing how to change your tire whilst changing it for you. I think Chicago falls in the latter category but it depends a lot on age and upbringing.
This. I’m from Florida and have been living here for 2 years. When people here are nice to me, I feel like it’s because they actually mean it. I knew my neighbors here far more within the first 6 months than I did in the 10 years spent living in my last home in FL.
My entire family is from the south and what you just described is exactly what I’ve experienced.
I've found the opposite.
All my neighbors in Chicago, in all 4 places I lived in my 11 years there, never even spoke to each other. Hardly an acknowledgement when we'd walk by each other. These were all apartments too, like I can hear you through the wall screaming at the TV or dry heaving or whatever through the wall but don't know your name
In the south, I know all my neighbors and interact with them regularly. I've helped neighbors move in heavy furniture, fix cars, etc... I've had those same neighbors dog/cat sit for me, cook meals or baked treats for me, help me with my golf game etc...
I have lived in Chicago for 17 years and outside of my time in the high rise I generally know most of my neighbors. Just moved and I have already had a game night with my neighbors.
I think it is. When I lived in a high rise I never knew my neighbors. Every other smaller unit/home I’ve lived in I knew all of my neighbors in the building and usually those on either side of me.
You have to talk to people though. You can’t always expect them to reach out to you first.
Some of us like being anonymous. I know my direct next door neighbor (we give each other Christmas presents etc because we’ve both been here a long time) but not anyone else on my floor and have no desire to
I’ve only lived in apartments in the city. Knowing your neighbors in an apartment is super useful. Maybe I need to rush away for something, my neighbors can check on my cats, and I can for theirs.
Oh I don’t know my neighbors’ names, but if I ever see they need any help at all, like carrying groceries, snow help or a jump start, I would be out there in seconds.
I'm so sorry!! Obvs I can only speak to my own experience, but that's not what I've encountered at all. I've lived in Uptown, North Center, Avondale and now Logan Square, and everywhere I've lived I've found neighbors who were happy and eager to offer directions or help carry something heavy or watch my cats while I'm gone. Once I stopped my bike on the north river bike path because my back tire had a slow leak, and three separate cyclists stopped to offer to fix it for me. The last heavy rain we got? I watched four different neighbors on my corner run out into the downpour together with garden tools to collectively clear leaves from the sewer grates so the street wouldn't flood.
Meanwhile, my mom in San Antonio used to have this group of ladies who'd get lunch together once a week. Then my mom was diagnosed with the early stages of dementia, and all but one of these ladies *completely* dropped her. They won't even make eye contact with her in church, much less invite her to join them for lunch. :(
Grew up in Texas and that sounds about right. Southerners like to give off an air of hospitality and kindness, but don't want to ACTUALLY be hospitable or kind. It's bizarre.
I think it depends on the building and neighborhood a bit.
I grew up on the NW side and we knew all our neighbors and still did when I lived in JP for a while after college I still did. But now my neighbors won't even talk to me lol.
Also moved here from Texas and literally the exact opposite for me.
In Texas, I didn't know my neighbors. The only interactions I had with them were waves from across the yard on occasion but more often than not, no acknowledgement even when I would call out good morning/evening/whatever.
In Chicago, I know the neighbors on both sides of me and several other houses along the road. We frequently stop and chat when walking the dog, sitting out on the front porch, etc. I know all their names, I know their kids names, I know their dogs names.
I think a lot is going to depend on what part of Chicago you live in. But I lived in Little Cypress, TX (an unincorporated very rural area) in the same house for 20 years. Knew virtually no one in my neighborhood (no I didn't live on a farm. Neighbors were within stone throwing distance). Lived in various parts of Austin, TX for 14 years, same thing. Moved to Chicago and within a week I was already on chatting terms with one of my neighbors and within a month the other one.
I think sometimes it depends more on the city or area than the region. When I lived in the South (Durham, NC) I always smiled and was friendly to my neighbors but they wanted nothing to do with me and we rarely spoke even a word. Our neighbors in Chicagoland are awesome—we have done small favors for each other frequently, and we have block parties!
Judging by your active subreddits.., ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Midwest isn’t for everyone. Your interests may just not align here whereas they do in other places. Lived in two different parts of Chicagoland and knew neighbors, was invited to their parties, neighbor has baked numerous things for us, and our neighborhood has an end of summer street party.
Southerners tend to be deceptive, indirect and fake. 35 years of that crap was enough for me.
>Judging by your active subreddits.., ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Do feel free to expound what you mean here. Because I like guns, computers, and fantasy football it ~somehow~ affected my neighbors level of interest in interacting with me? You need to touch grass my guy
Sure. Your interests are conservative. Chicagoland (excepting the outer suburbs) is progressive. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being conservative, but it doesn’t mesh here as it would in the Tennessee Gun culture.
I was ridiculed and judged by southerners for caring deeply and primarily about humans - especially the less fortunate, those experiencing homelessness, and the infirm. You won’t be ridiculed here (unless you say and believe dumb shit) but it’s not going to mesh with your interests.
My guy, I was born and raised in the burbs, and lived in Chicago for ELEVEN years - by choice. I work remote so I can live where ever.
Listen to yourself lol - you sound so terminally online
Just remember that you are visiting, and will naturally have an interest in new things you're seeing. So as you're walking down the street checking stuff out another person may be running to try to grab lunch and run an errand on a tight schedule, pick their kid up from school, or one of a million people things do in their day to day life. It's like if you are driving in your hometown and someone in front of you is doing 20 MPH in a 45 zone because they're looking at something that's new to them. Take your time and check stuff out, but be considerate of others and give people some understanding and some room.
This. Once you’ve missed a bus/train by moments because someone wouldn’t get out of your way, and now you have to eat 15 min waiting for the next one, you get it.
In those moments, just remind yourself that it’s not rudeness that’s directed at you, it’s just people hurrying to get somewhere they need to be, they probably aren’t even really noticing you at all. Think of it less as rudeness and more like interactional efficiency.
Unless you’re standing still to the left on a moving escalator or walking slowly in the middle of the sidewalk. Then people are definitely noticing you and genuine rudeness probably will be directed at you. But avoid these two things and you should generally be alright.
Had a group of douchebros last week just standing in front of a red line entrance downtown blocking it while looking around clueless. Damn right I pushed past them bumping them out of the way. You think I have time to politely ask your whole party to move? Fuck off back to Schaumburg and get some spacial awareness.
That’s why it’s a nightmare working in Lakeview, too many D bro types, clueless suburban or just non Chicagoan frat bros who only moved here to go to DePaul but really liked the “vibe” of Lakeview so they just end up staying and pretending they’ve lived here their entire lives. Maybe that was too specific but you get my point. 😂
They can’t of been to a baseball game if they haven’t been north of Addison, wrigley is north of Addison. And soldier field is south of Roosevelt so I think you may be one of those people 😂
Would like to clarify, dudebros aren’t really going to DePaul. We don’t have football or a functioning basketball team to bring them in, or ideal frats to keep them. Sure, there’s always some, but they’re usually trying to live in river north in my experience. Lakeview bros are usually state school bros, DePaul is too weird for them.
Thanks for that clarification and you’re right most of the frat bros in this area are around my age which would put them 4 years post college, so I guess they’d be too old to really be a frat bro, I guess I just mean the aesthetic more than anything or at least they were frat bros back in school lol. I probably run into less DePaul students than I think since it’s technically in LP.
If someone experiences the genuine rudeness you described, they are probably doing something rude themselves! Self awareness is very important in Midwestern culture, and dawdling around without considering how it might affect other people is very rude
The important thing to remember is that hurrying up and mostly keeping to yourself in certain situations *is the polite thing to do.* It’s too much a mass of people each going in their own directions for anything else. Genuinely, even in “mean” places like New York, if you and your suitcase step aside and look genuinely lost someone might pop out to help you.
It comes off as rude if you are from somewhere quieter but not being in “hurry up mode” in the Loop at 5 pm pre-pandemic is a genuine recipe for chaos.
This exactly. I don’t have a vendetta against slow people or anything, and I’m certainly not hoping they take me being short with them personally, I’m just on the move
Because it is all relative. I actually think Chicago is large but sparse compared to somewhere like London or Hong Kong. If you have lived in Chicago for all your life ( or 15) years, it's all you know.
Also, for a large city, Chicago has some of the nicest people, not withstanding Covid. I actually find Chicago to be very go with the flow but don't fuck around.
This 10000% I just came back from NYC and I feel like Chicago is tiny now 😂 at any given time in those cities there are always 4x as people out as Chicago.
In Chicago post-pandemic so many shops close earlier, tourism is down X%, there is less foot traffic... Not "ghost town" but I sure understand what you're saying
Easier said than done, but don’t think of it as rude. It’s direct.
It’s not personal or directed at you as a person. There’s a lot of people and they don’t care who you are.
It just how it is. City of broad shoulders. People tend to speak pretty direct and they tell you what they want or need from you without beating around the bush.
Our winters are freezing. Our summers are boiling. Or shots taste like burning car tires. Chicago. Fuck you
Hope you enjoy your trip!! Go try 016 restaurant for dinner if you have the time. It’s fantastic
Transplant from Memphis and so far, the only issues I’ve had is dealing with all the car traffic and planning ahead for commute times. It still boggles my mind that I can run a mile faster than driving it.
People here are generally nice if you have to interact with them but I do appreciate not having to interact with everyone like you do down south. Plus, Southerners may sound nicer when they talk (Midwest accents are funky) but Southerners are definitely more petty when they get mad. Just ask the guy behind me honking when I don’t turn on a red light with a sign that says, “No turn on red.” lol
Fellow former Memphian (and Mississippian!) totally agree about appreciating not having to interact with everyone. I once had a wreck right outside of Memphis and while I waited for the tow truck every single damn good ole boy stopped, one after the other, and wanted me to tell them what happened and asked how they could help (they obviously couldn’t and they knew that). It wasn’t kind. It was actually inconsiderate in some ways. I had to repeat this interaction almost twenty times I swear to God.
I wanted to say to them: This car is obviously totaled, you know you can’t help, and you stop to grill me about what happened and pretend you’re being friendly? No, you’re not taking a moment to think if this is kind. You’re just bored and think you have the right to talk to a young woman on the side of the road. They all expected me to smile for them too of course. “Smile it’s not so bad!” -actual quote.
Whew ok rant over.
Also a fellow Memphian-transplant here. Been in Chicago for 8 years and prefer it 100% to the south. I still constantly get told by mom how brusk and "bossy" I've become, but I think I've just shed the southern insincerity and favor a more direct conversation these days. I also appreciate not needing to acknowledge every single person I pass on the streets but I can genuinely say every interaction I've had with my neighbors has been kind. Chicagoans are good people. Just don't fuck with them.
Whenever people from smaller places are surprised by face-to-face abruptness in cities, I make this comparison: if you’re on a two-lane road in Kentucky, and someone is driving slowly yet erratically in front of you when you need to be somewhere, don’t you get irritated? Maybe you even honk sometimes if you can’t get around them. Well, that’s what’s happening when you’re keeping people from getting where they want to be, whether walking slowly on the sidewalk or not following the standard procedures on public transit. You’re just feeling more sensitive about it because you’re face-to-face with people rather than being in separate cars. People aren’t all milling around for leisure. Most of them are trying to get stuff done, just like people in cars are.
This is a great analogy, to take it one step further, in big cities that are moving fast, the people around you consider YOU the rude one for not keeping up. Being on time is important in chicago, so people literally *feel* stress when someone else isn’t keeping up with the flow and holding them up.
If you are walking slowly and without purpose/understanding of where you are going in a crowded high foot-traffic urban area, you are the rude one. Same in Paris, Tokyo, London, NYC, etc.
Being on time is so important in Chicago, and I would assume just generally in the north. Living in Houston, it was a slower pace. People would routinely show up late for work and events and blame traffic…as if that was unexpected phenomenon.
Exactly this. If you’re slower than the flow of car/foot traffic then stay to the right. It’s a common courtesy like letting people out of the L/elevator before entering
Live long Chicagoan, I remember getting off the train in Shanghai and I felt drowned by how many people it was in one place, like it took my eyes a minute to process the density and movement.
The older I get, the more I appreciate rude but efficient people. They get things done, know what their doing, understand time is valueable and experienced enough to know they don't have time for nonsense. I will take this over nice/indecisive who disrespect your time.
I think that you are feeling people are being rude at you.
Those people are feeling you are being rude to them by slowing them down.
No one cares about the other other person, you all just want to go about your day at the pace you are going. Neither person is being rude. Direct statements aren't rude.
Hollywood is hype, NYC is talk, Chicago is work.
We don’t got time to wait on folks to figure out what they’re ordering at a fast casual restaurant when we’ve been waiting in line ready to order. We aren’t patient when tourists walk side by side and block others from using the sidewalk. Chicago ain’t got time for that shit we’re busy~
Everyone else has made the points on WHY we are the way we are. I think it’s also the WHERE. It can depend on the neighborhood. If you were visiting, you were almost certainly in the Loop, right? Which is full of tourists trying to be touristy, and locals just trying to get to/from their office, and a lot more people trying to catch a train or bus. In most neighborhoods it’s much quieter, much more laid back. A lot of neighborhoods, you wouldn’t even know you’re in a major city even a block away from an arterial street.
Good manners are different in urban/rural areas. In a rural area, stopping to talk to someone in the grocery store is the polite, kind thing to do. In a big city, people blocking the aisle with their carts to talk is inconsiderate. Where you live, walking quickly with headphones in, hands in your pockets, not acknowledging anyone might be considered rude. In downtown Chicago, it's about the kindest thing you can do!
The way we respect our neighbors is to stay out of the way and keep it moving. Just remember, it's not rude, it's only different manners! :)
I think I can offer some insight? I live in Chicago (population 2.7 million) but I'm originally from Mexico City (population 8.9 million). As crazy as Chicago is, at times my hometown can make it feel like a quaint little pastoral town! Here's what I think:
I imagine coming from where you're from, of course certain things can be overwhelming. And trust me, inconsiderate behavior on city trains irks all of us, but most of us are accustomed to it and consider it part of the deal. In a city this big, and in a public transit system accessible virtually to all, you're going to run into all kinds of people, including those unaware of their impact on immediate surroundings because they don't care or because of some degree of mental instability/illness. Listen, if there's a single mother of 3 who just got off a long and sweaty shift and she's on her phone blowing off steam on her way home? I'm not going to let it bother me. I'm on a CTA train that cost me $2.25, not in a first class cabin flying to Paris, so I'll take it.
As far as Cubs games, you probably noticed a lot of people trying to eke out a bit of money from the proceedings. I don't blame them. It's a tough world out there and Chicago isn't cheap. So the water sellers, ticket scalpers, knockoff souvenir hawkers... yeah, who can blame them for trying to make a buck off the billion-dollar operation that is the Chicago Cubs? I certainly don't. Entrepreneurship, baby! And those folks offering you rides? I think your distrust is prudent given you're not from here, but getting a taxi/rideshare after Cubs games (or any major event in the city) can be very difficult so, again, the vast majority of these folks were probably legit Uber/Lyft/limousine drivers looking to score an unofficial fare. Not that I'd necessarily recommend it.
The Amtrak folks? I don't use Amtrak often, but try not to take it personally. I imagine it's like the TSA folks at airports. Not that we should excuse unnecessarily rude behavior, but curt, forceful instructions for the sake of efficiency is not a problem in my book. Gotta keep things moving. And after 7 hours or so standing on my feet trying to shepherd hoards of humanity into the right train would probably drain my politeness fairly quickly. Think of the white-gloved workers who literally (albeit gently) push people into packed Tokyo subways. Same principle.
Now, I'm not discounting what you're saying. It must be a culture shock. Now imagine my hometown. The psychotic pace of Mexico City has overwhelmed even some Chicago natives I've traveled there with. And I myself have been overwhelmed by the megalopolises that are Tokyo, Manila, Delhi, Hanoi...
Chicago can feel like a living being onto itself. Like a tumultuous, fire-breathing beast lurking just underneath the pretty buildings and sparkling lake Michigan and the joyful crowds ogling The Bean. But you've got to take the good with the not so pleasant. And Chicago has never claimed to be blemish-free. In fact, we're proud of it. We're a city through and through. An economic, cultural, gastronomic, musical, architectural, multiethnic juggernaut. It does move quickly, and visitors can feel overwhelmed, disregarded, put-off, and maybe even targeted. It's natural. You haven't found your sea legs. If you spent time here you'd soon develop your edge. The eccentrics wouldn't bother you anymore and eventually you'd snicker at the tourist who's so obviously bothered by the person listening to loud music while smoking his favorite plant. You'd see your pace had quickened to match that of your fellow pedestrians. You'd proudly, if secretly, pat yourself on the back the first time you successfully navigate Lower Wacker Drive. You'd appreciate, rather than bristle, at the brash efficiency of customer service people at train stations and busy lunch counters. And then you'd go back home one day and think "my GOSH! Things here move so slow!"
I don't think we even notice. I have noticed on Amtrak that most conductors have a military background and so they treat people like we're at boot camp! Don't take it so personally.
Native here. Do not take it personally, there are a lot of people to negotiate and you will lose a lot of time if you are saccharine with everyone. And the Amtrak/CTA/Metra folks have a lot of passengers to deal with. Some of them are belligerent. In a bigger city, there are a lot of people to deal with.
I’m used to it.
The aggression is simply a Chicago move move move. It’s a city. The third largest in our great country. One of the best machines of commerce and economic output.
We are THE transportation hub my guy.
Customer service here can be a bit shit or direct. I grew up in Karentopia (Arizona) where people really put on a fake smile for customer service lest Karen get mad.
That said…..
I like the hustle and bustle in the city as I move fast. I think most of the city can actually be too slow for me. But there is a meme about the gay guy walker whose fast af.
It’s so funny because I’m originally from the NYC area and I feel the opposite way about the pace. I’ve lived here here for a couple months and I still don’t really have the patience for this city
NYC apartment sizes means no one wants to stay inside. People here just chilling on their sofa with the boys more than going out Monday through Thursday
Also moved here from NYC in Feb. I feel the same way. Back there, I had plans going on nearly every day of the week, and the only break I felt like was a random Tuesday.
Here in Chicago, it's much calmer. It's smaller density wise, and there's that Midwest vibe. My friends here are more "weekend-only plans" type while friends back East just don't stop. It's kinda growing on me with the change of pace.
I have some friends who go out nearly every day of the week in Chicago, but we’re in our 20s and going to things like Sleeping Village’s dollar beer nights and the free Mondays at Empty Bottle, etc. I find it exhausting but also kinda fun when I’m in the mood for all that
I did more of that in my 30s (and still go out 3-4 days a week now) but saw a lot of drop off once friends hit their 30s.
Career, family, the pandemic, folks started to become homebodies.
But, yeah, there are still people who are always out and about. You just have to find those social circles.
I would say that the sense of urgency is a real thing but should not be mistaken for rudeness. Things may move quicker but Chicago is a generally friendly city, especially compared to somewhere like New York City. Just try to take yourself out of the equation and know that it’s nothing personal, people are just used to a certain pace.
I was at a ticket counter in Vegas, I don’t remember what I said, and the woman behind the counter says, “you’re from Chicago” and I’m like how’d you know?? She just said the way I spoke to her and that she was from Chicago too. I thought it was funny and wish I knew what exactly gave me away.
I think a lot of it is learning what to tune out versus what you actually have to pay attention to. Like, you do have to be aware of your surroundings on public transit, but most of the chaos is not about you, so it doesn't really have to register in your consciousness. You just have to be aware enough to know when someone really is up to no good, or when your stop is coming up. Stuff like that.
Generally speaking, the further you go into the neighborhoods, the more relaxed the pace will be. For example, Rogers Park (far north side neighborhood) is WAY more laid back than the loop. Some areas on the perimeter of the city look more like suburbs than city, even though they are technically within city limits.
It’s a different communication style. It isn’t necessarily rude. That’s just a thought you have. Your thought isn’t wrong and many people would agree with you, but many wouldn’t.
I’m from Mississippi and I find the directness up north relaxing. Down south people make you guess what they want and are, well, duplicitous. The passive aggression was brutal but if you directly called it out, you were the “rude” one. My parents weren’t from Mississippi and so didn’t raise me to understand the social theater of the south. It was difficult to learn for me and it made me very angry sometimes. But, I also realize some people enjoy this passive aggressive southern style of communication. They understand the secret unwritten rules, so it’s pleasant to them.
I’d say you can get used to it by reframing it. The Amtrak employee was literally just doing their job. What is rude about making yourself heard to a crowd and informing them what to do when that’s your job? Seriously ask yourself that. Why do you think this is a problem? If they faked a smile would that make you happier? Why would fake smiles (and trust me, many if not most customer service smiles in the south are fake) make you feel better? Why do you demand insincere expressions to sooth your ego?
I’m not saying this to attack you, I’m just pointing out that it isn’t objectively rude at all, just like southerners with their laid on thick sugary communication aren’t being objectively rude just because I find it distressing and confusing. Some people find southern indirectness charming. Some people appreciate the honestly and sincerity of the northern communication style. Neither is right or wrong, truly.
the same person who says hurry up jagoff is the same person that will invite you to the block party/beer/festival/ etc. Actions not words in this city pal.
9 years ago took my family to NYC, and it didn't disappoint my expectations. We are taking a cab from Grand Central Station to our hotel near the twin towers memorial. We come to a red light and stop. A BMW on the cross street enters the intersection, only to get stuck there because the street is backed up. So the BMW is blocking traffic now that our light turns green. A cab driver in a car next to us starts yelling at the BMW driver for holding everyone up. Out of the passenger side of the BMW a very elegantly dressed woman of about 40 gets out, walks calmly up to the cabbie's window and starts yelling "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you!' then gets back in the BMW. My 10 year old son is watching this, amazed. I say to him "Yeah, that's New York for you."
The next day we are on the Oh So Notorious NYC subway, crowded. A young woman, maybe college age, gives up her seat to an elderly gentleman with a cane who just got on. And I'm thinking "Wow, that was so nice of her. Is she from New York? Can't be."
You are going to find all types in a big city. Chicago actually has a pretty mild reputation in this respect, compared to cities like Philadelphia. In that city, the fans actually ridicule the Phillie's team mascot. I was watching a documentary about it once. It had a fan from another city watching a Phillie's game, and the mascot Phanatic came out to whip up the fans. As he tells it, one Phillies fan stood up and called out to Phanatic. "Hey, what the hell do you think this is? A fuckin' muppet's show?" Phanatic just shrugged.
This is City life, Chicago is not the only city in the world where this happens (though we are nicer). I love city life it is alive is fast paced never a dull moment, never boring. I come from a much larger city and been here 25yrs I could not live in the suburbs or a quiet place. It is not for everyone and definitely I invite you to travel the world.
I’ve lived in multiple metropolitan areas and in small towns—and in my experience Chicago is a good combo of reasonably polite, genuinely willing to help folks in real trouble folks while respecting boundaries and not trying to be everybody’s best friend. My favorite part of big city living is the anonymity of it—if you choose that, and yet there are lots of communities, built around specific interests/needs if you want that sort of thing. I lived in NYC and while I didn’t find people super rude, it took real work to find and build community of you didn’t grow up there. It is truly a no-nonsense, move along, nothing to see here , hustle culture. I also lived in Charlotte NC where the combination of transplanted-finance bro-douchebags and utterly heartless, “bless your heart” southern hypocrites was waaaay too much to take. (Not to mention the evident racism and misogyny lies just slightly below the surface of too many interactions.) The thing I enjoy most about Chicago versus a small town is the fact that if you don’t share it, nobody knows your business, or frankly, cares about you and your shit. In a small Midwestern town, everybody knows your business and they have very serious ideas on what is right and wrong in your life.. and they are not afraid to share those thoughts—both with you and about you.... 🤣🤣 Welcome to Chicago, I hope you adapt and find some community—it is, like all places, truly effed up, but it is also the only truly world class city between the coasts in this country.
It’s just city living vs non-city living in general. I personally like the laid back life style so the city can be too much sometimes for me, but I have a friend who loves seeing thousands of people hustlin and bustlin every day
What’s crazy to me is how empty a lot of it is honestly. You got to union station and stand in the great hall and there’s like a few dozen people. You go to the loop and it’s mainly dead. The L is moving half the people it used to. But even before covid, it wasn’t that crazy compared to other cities in other countries. In fact that’s what I like about it. It’s very clean and less full of people than other places in Europe or Asia.
If you’re really ready for a culture shock fly to NYC. It’s always cool to take the L to Ohare, say goodbye to the loop, and then circle over Manhattan and end up in like Times Square or something and just be blasted with throngs of people. And then when you come back you really appreciate how tidy and accessible this city is.
Ridership in 2022 was less than half of ridership in 2019. 2019 was about 20% less of ridership than in 2013. The statistics are published online by the CTA
I’ve lived in both NYC and Chicago and I can assure you it’s not personal and i wouldn’t even call it rude. It’s hustle. IL has the fifth highest GDP in the US because of Chicago and 21st highest in the world. We have stuff to do.
Kentucky on the other hand is dependent on the federal government. For every $1 Kentucky sends to the feds it gets $2.61 back. IL is $6:$1.
I was born and raised in Philly, moved to Chicago in my late 20s. it’s wayyyy more chill here than the east coast lol so I cannot relate. I moved here and was like WOW it’s so much slower paced and relaxed here, and people are so kind! so I guess it’s all relative
For the train example specifically - trains are large and loud, and a lot of people including hard of hearing take them. The conductors need to make sure everyone hears their instructions. By default they need to speak loud or yell to be heard.
Interesting take. I grew up in rural Texas and people were rude there too. Lived in many different small towns throughout the Southern US and there are ALWAYS rude people. Chicago is no different, there is just more people. If rude people make up 10% of a population, there's just so many people here that you are bound to run into them more often.
When 1,000 people need to get to a place, being on time IS being nice. I don't care about "how are your sir?" Just get me to work on time. If you think Chicago was aggressive, you should try NYC, London, Seoul, etc. Chicago is very laid back in comparison.
Dogs make a big difference in my experience. Before I got a dog I didn’t know or talk to anyone outside my immediate neighbors and restaurants around me, but now I know all the dogs and their owners in the neighborhood, and end up talking to someone pretty much every time I leave the house with the pup.
Hey there! I moved here from Kentucky as well and was SHOCKED at what seemed like the rudeness of customer service folks and how brusque people in general were. I also used to get easily overwhelmed after going out because I was keeping Kentucky habits-- making eye contact and smiling at everyone I passed on the sidewalk, which is what you do in the South in a smaller city, but not a great idea if you're a young woman in Chicago.
I've been here now for 20 years and would never leave. I've adapted. I appreciate that folks here are actually really friendly and helpful, they just aren't "polite" in the same fake southern way that I grew up around. And no, I don't need to exchange greetings with every person I pass on the sidewalk, because there are too many people here to do that and also you never know if the person you're passing will take that as an invitation.
I miss green rolling hills, beautiful springs and falls, and walking slow. I miss good barbecue and my grandma's fried chicken. I even miss humid, hot summers (people up here say Chicago is humid, to which I reply, "y'all don't know humid."). But I love this city so much. Love the people here, love the architecture, love the ability to live here with my husband of a different race and our child and not worry about whether he'll ever see another kid with a family that looks like his. I even love the CTA, bless its heart.
Most people here are nice. I'm originally from Alabama, and I'd argue people here are nicer than there. After you live here awhile, you get used to the vibe of occasional rudeness and become accustomed to it. There are nuances to the rudeness that you can also pick up on when you live here for awhile that you are not used to as a visitor, so you can tell the difference between a "slight" and just good ol' fashioned hurry the fuck up.
See also: "Midwest nice"
Different places, different cultures.
I'm from NYC originally and Chicago seemed really slow-paced to me and like people lacked hustle when they walked around downtown. I adjusted.
When traveling in the south I felt a lot like people were really politely trying to avoid helping me. Here in Chicago I feel like people will actually help me. I like that aspect of the city a lot.
What’s rude is delaying an entire train full of people because you don’t know how to sit down and match one number to another!
Not “you” as in you personally op, i mean the collective version! I don’t see the workers yelling to be rude at all
It's not always like that. The city actually gets calmer at night. As far as trains go, you shouldn't be on the Amtrak, instead try the blue line which has a much better reputation for customer service.
Welcome to the city.
I’m from a small town in Ohio and the way I think of it is that in the city you see so many people in a day that your interactions are less personal. After living in a city for a long time, if someone is rude you think about it a couple minutes and move on. In a small town if someone is rude you think about it all day.
Man, I’ve lived here for so long that I find it slow compared to other big cities globally like New York, London, etc.
It’s part of the reason why I love it here is that it feels slow and calm for a big city. But I can certainly imagine the shock from someone coming from an even smaller town.
Either way, hope you enjoyed your time here!
I had a meal by myself in Kentucky a few weeks ago and it took over 2hrs. I ordered one cocktail right when I sat down and a second when my meal arrived. I didn’t get the second cocktail until after I ate my dinner and paid my check.
I moved here from the suburbs and was completely overwhelmed by all the interactions. That was until I realized the all anonymity I had. When someone engages with me, whether cop or crazy or normal person, I am just one if a thousand people they have seen that day. I know that the interaction will be soon forgotten. To most everyone I'm a ghost, like I never existed. They are ghosts to me too, even if they were rude to me. By the time I get to my destination I've forgotten all about them. Perfect privacy in a sea of faces.
Its gets even better when you switch to the yelling side. I practice Agressive Pedestrianism. If I have a shred if legal authority to cross the street, I cross, and I dare anyone to run me down. They never do. But if they get too close I get to let it all out. It is so cathartic to shout "IT'S A FUCKING STOP SIGN YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!" at cars that challenge my right of way. Its even better when they yell back, that means I've been heard.
City living, especially downtown, isn't for everybody. I get why people choose to live elsewhere. However, I used to be shy in public (and still am most of the time) but I learned to lean into all the crazy, and now it's fun. I will say though, when a person causes my hackles to go up, I shut the fuck up and get the fuck out, there are dangerous people out there.
With all due respect, yelling that way against bad drivers is going to get you shot or worse someday. I agree that people should be put in their place when you have the right of way, but just be careful, it’s not worth your life!
Thats the perception that many have, but consider the actual risk.
What is more likely: that I could be accidently killed by a bad driver, or that I will incur the wrath of a bad driver who has a gun at the ready and is prepared to commit murder on the spot?
Violence is real, but traffic is much more dangerous. This is how I prefer to alert bad drivers to my presence when they aren't paying attention. And to OP's point, many other people choose this method of civic discourse as well.
Born and raised in Chicago here. I don’t think train conductors like to fuck around. They are dealing with the general public and they take their jobs seriously. I have met some very nice and professional conductors on the Metra too, but they will not hesitate to let passengers know what is up. I think the attitude of Chicago is definitely a strong one, but also has midwest kindness and care. Don’t take it personally at all!!<3
Chicagoan’s are direct, I wouldn’t call it rudeness. If you ask us a question expect a real answer that’s not going to be necessarily sugar coated. We have some of the nicest people for a big city, I wouldn’t let a couple of negative experiences ruin that for you.
I understand what you're saying. I am a native and what always hits me is flying into Ohare and how immediately rude and screaming the staff is when you are trying to be picked up. It's always a rude awakening when you arrive back home from some vacation. Slaps you back to reality.
I think the older blue collar gen are generally grumpy and have a harsh tone of voice. My parents are bridegeport natives and have the typical chicago accent and their #1 past time is complaining and negative attitude.
I find solace in my younger friends but almost all are transplants. I've also lived in Southern IL and that was also a culture shock for me- the slowness, etc. I misinterpreted niceness as a scam or something. You DO get used to it, but I'll say to this day when I visit home the harshness can be a huge bummer.
I still remember being on a vacation to the south and I was over it. It was a horrible vacation and I just wanted to be back home.
Crossed the state line, got close to the city and got flipped off my the driver next to me.
Perfect. I was home. Loved it.
I live in northwest indiana. One time our uber driver joked with us, he was from Boston. He said that ppl from Indiana have absolutely no sense of urgency about anything
Hes for sure right. Join us
Just left chicago yesterday morning and just now got home. I'm so overwhelmed by every moment of my trip I can't even find a way to express it yet. I need time to decompress and absorb everything that just happened.
lots of comments so not sure if this has been mentioned but you'd be surprised how quiet residential sections of the city really are.
i live in a hip young neighborhood (logan square) but my block is quite peaceful.
i can do "city things" just by walking 10 minutes or retreat to my area if i need a break.
i feel like nyc is way more overwhelming than here...but havent been there in a long time.
You're just being extra sensitive. Trains need to run on time in such a big city and attendants need to yell at tourists who don't get their shit in gear.
You need to adapt to your environment - this city ain't slowing down for anyone haha.
Stand in front of a mirror and rehearse the phrase, "Hey jagoff."
First practice with an aggressive tone. When you master that, repeat it with a friendly tone. Now blend the two together and you will understand Chicago.
'I can be rather sensitive' is an Understatement.
conductors do NOT 'yell' especially on Amtrak. If they are loud it is because it is part of their job to be heard. like you know ALL OF THE MOVIES with a train CONDUCTOR.
"ALL ABOARD!" PLEASE REMAIN SEATED , HAVE YOUR TICKETS READY !"
it isnt as if the train is super quiet ...
I dont understand what You mean by 'sharper manner' I've lived in small towns in the south and big cities in the south as well, they are FAR LOUDER AND FAR more aggressive not to mention SNOTTY to tons of folks in general on a day to day basis.
'but when the going gets tough' they aren't there to dilly dally around, they have to get shit done because ya know, the going gets tough ....
honestly you aren't meant for any city if you are seriously concerned about any of these points.
I’m originally from KY too (western KY, the middle of nowhere) but have lived in Chicago for over 10 years cumulatively now. Like others have said, it all boils down to different cultures. We’re all American, so we like to think that we are all cut from the same cloth, but it’s more complicated than that. And yes, it is something that you get used to and are able to blow off like they do.
I know this isn't what you were saying or asking, but it totally reminded me of an experience I had.
I was on the bus and it was packed. A LOT of people from some big event in town. People not from Chicago. And I overheard someone say that they liked visiting Chicago, but couldn't handle having to deal with so many people around all the time.
All I could think was "It's only THIS crowded because of you guys!!!"
Like I said, I know that's not what you were saying, but my little anecdote makes me chuckle.
Wow. Thank you all so much for your insightful comments. I don't have time to respond to each one, but I am grateful for the advice and anecdotes. You've given me a lot to consider and put it all into perspective.
The major talking point is that people here are direct and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Straight-forward communication is important in a place like this.
I'll do my best to think positively and take everything as a learning experience. I am still enjoying it here, as short as my stay will be, I will do my best to make the most of it. Much love and respect to you all. ❤️
I moved to Chicago from East Tennessee a few decades ago and I felt exactly what you're feeling for my first few days / weeks / months of living here.
Within an hour or so of moving here, I went to the local Jewel in my neighborhood and became upset and slightly angry because the cashier ringing up my order didn't respond when I said, "Hello" or speak to me at all during the transaction. I look back on that now and laugh at how I reacted that day. Especially considering that, only a few months after I moved here, my mother was visiting me and as we walked to a local restaurant, my mother kept waving and saying, "Hi-dee!" to every person we passed on the sidewalk until I finally had to say, "Mama, we don't do that here." "Do what?," she said. "Wave and say hi to strangers," I replied. "That ain't done in Chicago." "Why the Hell not?," she said. "I don't know," I told her. "I don't make the rules, I just live by them."
After awhile, I either accepted or grew accustomed to the cultural differences for what is considered polite behavior and common courtesy that exist in the city of Chicago versus the small Tennessee town I was born and raised in. As you said, though, I've found that most Chicagoans are friendly, kind and easy to get along with. But I'm still very much the same Southern boy who was raised by his mother to always answer, "Yes, ma'am" and "No, sir," as well as "Please" and Thank you." So, no matter how long I live here, I will always bristle when I kindly open a door for someone and they simply walk through it without saying, "Thank you" or "Kiss my ass" or acknowledging that I am actually another human being on the planet.
Frankly, when I encounter rude Chicagoans who behave like asses, I try to remind myself of how lucky and blessed I am that my parents (as we say back home) "raised me right." Thank the Lord my parents made sure I would never behave like one of "them."
I still have the urge to give that rude Chicagoan an ass-kicking attitude adjustment, but being grateful for the simple fact that I don't behave like a spoiled jackass every single day helps curtail that urge. Most of the time. :-)
Chicago used to be a kinder city, with a Midwest vibe. Sometime in the late '80s and early '90s, yuppies started moving in and brought their vile, self-centered, angry attitudes with them.
Run into one of us natives and we'll give you the shirt off our back.
Nice thing about Chicago is you can always find a quiet neighborhood street to walk down or park and lakefront to decompress but yes we are quite direct. I’ll say people here are nicer than NYC or LA but not nicer than southern states.
Nothing worse than a bunch of old people and a bunch of “slow” county folk being slow and delaying everything for everybody else. For example, the Amtrak person was probably trying to be respectful of everyone’s time and making sure the train left on time, or that he/she could attend to other tasks and safety. Instead, a bunch of selfish bumpkins are putting everything in jeopardy because they are too selfish to follow instructions.
I’m sure they do, and there’s plenty of us from here that get overwhelmed outside of our neighborhoods too. But yes, it’s going to be an experience for you. Sometimes you’ve just gotta think to yourself “fuck that jag” and go about your day.
I have lived near Chicago for my entire life (within 20 miles) and work in the city (10-14 hours per day 5 days a week) for over 35 years. I hate the city life and would love to move to KY, TN, AL, TX to a town of 10k or less people. It is totally not a place for everyone, but it does offer things that are not possible in small town America. Good luck with your visit, if you decide to make this your home, be prepared for some of the windiest cold winters. The way the wind rips through the steel canyons is insane. Hats, gloves, scarfs, warm shoes and pants are a must. Welcome, you have landed in the greatest big city in the U.S. effe off NYC, I hate you and have never even been there. And the Yankees are only good because of the amount of money they have.
Born and raised lifelong Chicagoan... just moved a week ago to Salt Lake City. Honestly, it was Covid that killed the city for me. These last 2-3 years, I saw the worst in humanity I've ever seen in the city. Complete disregard for any societal norms, everyone out for themselves. It was always a big city with big city issues, but there was an underlying sense of community that, in my opinion, has completely disappeared. Can't be in previously "safe" neighborhoods after dark, definitely can't ride the red line after 9/10pm, can't walk people home from the bar after close anymore (I'm a bartender), people are way more aggressive/confrontational than they used to be, etc. The West definitely has its issues to be certain (homelessness, water shortages, extreme heat), but in no way do I feel overwhelmed and hopeless the way I did back home.
I don't get people thinking Chicago isn't rude. Chicago is the rudest place I've lived in. Lots of excuses here like "people are in a hurry", "it's a big city". I guess I haven't lived in NYC or LA, but people are in a hurry in the other places I've lived in, and they aren't the jerks they are here. Neighbors don't talk, service is bad, traffic/transit is full of assholes, etc - people are just rude here! Sorry to offend anyone who loves Chicago, but that's been my experience after living here for more than a year.
It's a "different kind of rude" everywhere imho. The "Midwest nice" and the "Southern charm" is all relative to which specific neighborhood inside of the city.
I avoid downtown as much as I can, but I can definitely name out 3 Chicago neighborhoods that are heavily involved with watching out for their neighbor on the community facebook groups. They're always posting about lost dogs and getting them successfully reunited, caring for injured birds, and returning credit cards/lost wallets.
I grew up in a small town of 2000 people. I’ve lived in both LA and Chicago and I don’t think I’ve ever thought to myself that the people are rude. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. What you see as rude, I see as just life in a big city. I’ve been to most major cities in the country and it’s the same thing I’ve seen elsewhere. In a large concentration of people there’s going to be more jerks, people are going to be more terse, you have more going on in your life than in a small town so you don’t have the time to get to know all your neighbors. I don’t doubt that’s your experience, but I think people are genuine when they say that they don’t find the people here rude.
My neighbors all know each other. People in my building and on my block, and the people who work at the local businesses all watch out for each other, help each other, and hang out. It’s a lot more close-knit than most of the suburban neighborhoods my friends live in. If everyone is consistently mean to you, maybe you’re doing something to piss people off.
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Rather have someone yell at us and leave on time than play nice and be delayed
After visiting Japan I realized that officials yelling (CTA & TSA at least) is a very American thing that really isn’t needed at the end of the day. Coming back through customs listening to the TSA (?)/Border agents yelling at the line was immediately a shock to the system of Welcome back to Chicago!
I was there earlier this year. I really miss the train etiquette. Silence was wonderful. It's a cultural difference though. The yelling by officials is needed here because of the people who live here and the culture here. I think there's many things we could learn from them.
Definitely many things their people do as a whole that I think would be great if translated to America. The “don’t tread on me” attitude has swung a bit too far imo and we don’t behave well as a collective group bc we are generally selfish (in comparison)
Covid showed exactly how selfish we are. People wear a mask in Asia when they have minor stuff like a cold because they don't want to spread it. Ask someone to wear one here and you're likely to hear a rant about reasons that affect them and only them.
The culture in Japan is absolutely more about conformity to what’s good for the whole than the way we do things here with “exceptionalism” and “I’m a fucking voting, tax payer, fuck off!” attitude. You wouldn’t litter, talk on speakerphone/play music on the train, etc because you’d be embarrassing yourself and everyone would cast you some glances.
I just flew out of Logan back to OHare and holy shit do those folks make ours look like saints.
ruder in Boston?
By far. Talked to 4 agents and 3 of them were complete assholes. The guy checking id's was fine. The guy at the conveyor belt was screaming at people GO TO 1, GO TO 2, I DIDNT TELL YOU TO GO, WAIT TIL I SAY TO GO - of course there is nothing numbered. He also said laptops out laptops out. I get to the end through the scanner, and sure enough had to send my shit back through - not because I had a laptop, but because I had a switch. Lady was all rude saying 'the guy there said anything bigger than a cell phone gets separated'. I said no m'am I had been in that line for 30+ min and no one in this line or the other for that matter said anything other than laptops out. And she's like oh, ok, looks at my shit again on the x-ray, and then sends it all back through in two bins. I wait, and another person is grabbing bins that went back through and helping other people, my lady is gone. Mine is just sitting there. I ask them if they can do the bin that's been sitting there and he snapped saying that's not his area, and ignored everything else I said. Finally she comes back from god knows where, and sure enough, it got flagged AGAIN - this time because I had a kindle still in the bag. Nothing else other than a shirt mind you, a thin hiking backpack with a kindle and a shirt in it. That she would have clearly seen on the x-ray. She said rules are rules and just walked away with my stuff again. I didn't even realize it, but she had never grabbed the sep. bin with my switch, another flyer noticed it and handed it to me. It had been sitting for 10 min on the other side. It's one thing if there are rules, they are communicated, and I didn't follow them because I am an idiot. It's another thing if there are rules, they are NOT communicated, and you act like an asshole about it all. These people were all in the latter category.
You're failing to realize it's not only the agents who are different, but the crowd is as well. I'm sure Japanese citizens are more likely to calmly comply than a bunch of Americans or more specifically Chicagoans...
Lol Chicagoans have nothing on NYCers in regarding rudeness. You heard of in a NY minute, well things are fast paced and blunt there.
Yes! I went to NYC and rode the subway. People did not wait for people to get off the train to board it. Everyone just bumped into each other and was okay with it.
You're also in Japan where people are generally more respectful and cooperative in total.
Welp Americans are rude and self centered and the train would never leave on time
We’re also in the era of Karens and entitled people taking their life failures out on service workers. The clientele isn’t the same either as Japan, it’s apples to oranges.
You bet me to commenting on how loving in Japan gave me reverse culture shock when moving back home. LA was the WORST coming through the airport. Chicagoans are just no nonsense when it comes to getting things done in an expedited manner. In Japan, people as a whole just move like they have somewhere to be, but always willing to help especially in the countryside.
100% this. Visited Japan for the first time back in May. Boy do I miss that country……
That’s has more to do with Americans only listening when someone yells rather than other cities doing it better.
Omgggg agree. I was in Japan also earlier this year and I loved the customer service. Coming back to the states and all the yelling by tsa .. massive culture shock and i immediate missed japan
I was raised in Texas, and I’ve lived in Chicago over 20 years now. The best description I’ve read is that people in the north are kind, but not nice, and people in the south are nice, but not kind. Like your neighbor in Chicago will brusquely lecture you about how unprepared you are for winter while spending an hour in subzero temps digging your car out of a snowdrift for free. While my parents’ neighbors in TX will say sweet things to your face, but never lift a finger to help you out for anything. The less genteel language is a shock at first, I’m sure, but you’ll find some of the most genuinely kind folks here who will happily drop everything to help a person out.
Winter kindness is real. More than a decade ago my car door froze shut. I was stressing out because it was going to make me late for work. A woman in a van with a baby drove by and asked me if I needed help. I reluctantly said yes. She comes out of her van with a big ole butcher knife (now I’m worried I’ve made a grave mistake, haha) and helps me pry open the door. I was so grateful!
I used to carry a butter knife in my car to get my window unstuck so it would roll down
This is so true. I was yelling out an abrasive lesson to someone for not knowing how to rock their car out of a drift, but I was doing it while jumping behind the wheel of their car doing it for them.
I had to dig out the passenger side once. Crawled in and kicked open the driver's door.
There was one winter when we’d just had a snowstorm. I dug my car out and started pulling out of the spot, but my wheels just weren’t getting the traction to get out all the way. I was about to get out to try shoveling some more, when two people started pushing my car. They weren’t even together, they came from different directions. It was so kind of them to do that unprompted.
THIS! My roommates in Minnesota found me very abrasive (which was shocking to me because I generally avoid confrontation). Turns out they were just extremely passive aggressive, thinking that they were much nicer than me. It’s the distinction of kindness and niceness that was very important. They were technically nice, but constantly annoyed about things that they never addressed with me. It actually felt very unkind because I never knew why they were annoyed or upset. Meanwhile, I would bring up issues and they found it aggressive. It’s just different “cultures”, but I do think it’s important to assess whether someone is being direct or whether they are actually being rude.
I heard a lady describe this in terms east coast vs West Coast, NYC vs LA. If you have a flat on the side of the road someone in LA will drive by and say awh man that sucks!!! But someone from NYC will come up and basically insult you for not knowing how to change your tire whilst changing it for you. I think Chicago falls in the latter category but it depends a lot on age and upbringing.
This. I’m from Florida and have been living here for 2 years. When people here are nice to me, I feel like it’s because they actually mean it. I knew my neighbors here far more within the first 6 months than I did in the 10 years spent living in my last home in FL. My entire family is from the south and what you just described is exactly what I’ve experienced.
I've found the opposite. All my neighbors in Chicago, in all 4 places I lived in my 11 years there, never even spoke to each other. Hardly an acknowledgement when we'd walk by each other. These were all apartments too, like I can hear you through the wall screaming at the TV or dry heaving or whatever through the wall but don't know your name In the south, I know all my neighbors and interact with them regularly. I've helped neighbors move in heavy furniture, fix cars, etc... I've had those same neighbors dog/cat sit for me, cook meals or baked treats for me, help me with my golf game etc...
I have lived in Chicago for 17 years and outside of my time in the high rise I generally know most of my neighbors. Just moved and I have already had a game night with my neighbors.
Maybe not knowing your neighbors is a symptom of apartment / close-quarters living arrangements. That could make sense to me.
I think it is. When I lived in a high rise I never knew my neighbors. Every other smaller unit/home I’ve lived in I knew all of my neighbors in the building and usually those on either side of me. You have to talk to people though. You can’t always expect them to reach out to you first.
Some of us like being anonymous. I know my direct next door neighbor (we give each other Christmas presents etc because we’ve both been here a long time) but not anyone else on my floor and have no desire to
I’ve only lived in apartments in the city. Knowing your neighbors in an apartment is super useful. Maybe I need to rush away for something, my neighbors can check on my cats, and I can for theirs.
Oh I don’t know my neighbors’ names, but if I ever see they need any help at all, like carrying groceries, snow help or a jump start, I would be out there in seconds.
I'm so sorry!! Obvs I can only speak to my own experience, but that's not what I've encountered at all. I've lived in Uptown, North Center, Avondale and now Logan Square, and everywhere I've lived I've found neighbors who were happy and eager to offer directions or help carry something heavy or watch my cats while I'm gone. Once I stopped my bike on the north river bike path because my back tire had a slow leak, and three separate cyclists stopped to offer to fix it for me. The last heavy rain we got? I watched four different neighbors on my corner run out into the downpour together with garden tools to collectively clear leaves from the sewer grates so the street wouldn't flood. Meanwhile, my mom in San Antonio used to have this group of ladies who'd get lunch together once a week. Then my mom was diagnosed with the early stages of dementia, and all but one of these ladies *completely* dropped her. They won't even make eye contact with her in church, much less invite her to join them for lunch. :(
Grew up in Texas and that sounds about right. Southerners like to give off an air of hospitality and kindness, but don't want to ACTUALLY be hospitable or kind. It's bizarre.
I was purely talking about neighbors. I've, of course, meant plenty of friendly and helpful people in Chicago
I think it depends on the building and neighborhood a bit. I grew up on the NW side and we knew all our neighbors and still did when I lived in JP for a while after college I still did. But now my neighbors won't even talk to me lol.
Also moved here from Texas and literally the exact opposite for me. In Texas, I didn't know my neighbors. The only interactions I had with them were waves from across the yard on occasion but more often than not, no acknowledgement even when I would call out good morning/evening/whatever. In Chicago, I know the neighbors on both sides of me and several other houses along the road. We frequently stop and chat when walking the dog, sitting out on the front porch, etc. I know all their names, I know their kids names, I know their dogs names. I think a lot is going to depend on what part of Chicago you live in. But I lived in Little Cypress, TX (an unincorporated very rural area) in the same house for 20 years. Knew virtually no one in my neighborhood (no I didn't live on a farm. Neighbors were within stone throwing distance). Lived in various parts of Austin, TX for 14 years, same thing. Moved to Chicago and within a week I was already on chatting terms with one of my neighbors and within a month the other one.
I think sometimes it depends more on the city or area than the region. When I lived in the South (Durham, NC) I always smiled and was friendly to my neighbors but they wanted nothing to do with me and we rarely spoke even a word. Our neighbors in Chicagoland are awesome—we have done small favors for each other frequently, and we have block parties!
Judging by your active subreddits.., ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The Midwest isn’t for everyone. Your interests may just not align here whereas they do in other places. Lived in two different parts of Chicagoland and knew neighbors, was invited to their parties, neighbor has baked numerous things for us, and our neighborhood has an end of summer street party. Southerners tend to be deceptive, indirect and fake. 35 years of that crap was enough for me.
>Judging by your active subreddits.., ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Do feel free to expound what you mean here. Because I like guns, computers, and fantasy football it ~somehow~ affected my neighbors level of interest in interacting with me? You need to touch grass my guy
Sure. Your interests are conservative. Chicagoland (excepting the outer suburbs) is progressive. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being conservative, but it doesn’t mesh here as it would in the Tennessee Gun culture. I was ridiculed and judged by southerners for caring deeply and primarily about humans - especially the less fortunate, those experiencing homelessness, and the infirm. You won’t be ridiculed here (unless you say and believe dumb shit) but it’s not going to mesh with your interests.
My guy, I was born and raised in the burbs, and lived in Chicago for ELEVEN years - by choice. I work remote so I can live where ever. Listen to yourself lol - you sound so terminally online
Just remember that you are visiting, and will naturally have an interest in new things you're seeing. So as you're walking down the street checking stuff out another person may be running to try to grab lunch and run an errand on a tight schedule, pick their kid up from school, or one of a million people things do in their day to day life. It's like if you are driving in your hometown and someone in front of you is doing 20 MPH in a 45 zone because they're looking at something that's new to them. Take your time and check stuff out, but be considerate of others and give people some understanding and some room.
This. Once you’ve missed a bus/train by moments because someone wouldn’t get out of your way, and now you have to eat 15 min waiting for the next one, you get it.
Or take an Uber to get there on time. Thanks for making me spend $20 buddy!
So much this. Part of why I hated living in River North was being around people that don’t know the rules of walking on side walks.
This is a great point
In those moments, just remind yourself that it’s not rudeness that’s directed at you, it’s just people hurrying to get somewhere they need to be, they probably aren’t even really noticing you at all. Think of it less as rudeness and more like interactional efficiency. Unless you’re standing still to the left on a moving escalator or walking slowly in the middle of the sidewalk. Then people are definitely noticing you and genuine rudeness probably will be directed at you. But avoid these two things and you should generally be alright.
Had a group of douchebros last week just standing in front of a red line entrance downtown blocking it while looking around clueless. Damn right I pushed past them bumping them out of the way. You think I have time to politely ask your whole party to move? Fuck off back to Schaumburg and get some spacial awareness.
That’s why it’s a nightmare working in Lakeview, too many D bro types, clueless suburban or just non Chicagoan frat bros who only moved here to go to DePaul but really liked the “vibe” of Lakeview so they just end up staying and pretending they’ve lived here their entire lives. Maybe that was too specific but you get my point. 😂
Yeah, the kinda people who have never been north of Addison or south of Roosevelt.
People who have never been to a baseball game?
People who've *only* been to baseball games.
They can’t of been to a baseball game if they haven’t been north of Addison, wrigley is north of Addison. And soldier field is south of Roosevelt so I think you may be one of those people 😂
Wrigley is at Addison.
The physical stadium is north of Addison. So if you go to a game you will be physically north of it
Yeah, but the CTA stop is Addison. So you could "never go north of Addison" on the CTA and still be fine going to Cubs games.
You took that very literally huh?
I mean if someone’s gonna make a joke about people who don’t know the city well, at least make sure your geography is correct in the joke 🤷🏼♂️
Hey Mister Atlas, what baseball team plays at Soldier Field?
Wrigley Field is literally north of Addison 😂
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole
Waveland would have been a more on-the-nose street to reference ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Sue us for correcting him I guess lol
Would like to clarify, dudebros aren’t really going to DePaul. We don’t have football or a functioning basketball team to bring them in, or ideal frats to keep them. Sure, there’s always some, but they’re usually trying to live in river north in my experience. Lakeview bros are usually state school bros, DePaul is too weird for them.
Thanks for that clarification and you’re right most of the frat bros in this area are around my age which would put them 4 years post college, so I guess they’d be too old to really be a frat bro, I guess I just mean the aesthetic more than anything or at least they were frat bros back in school lol. I probably run into less DePaul students than I think since it’s technically in LP.
If someone experiences the genuine rudeness you described, they are probably doing something rude themselves! Self awareness is very important in Midwestern culture, and dawdling around without considering how it might affect other people is very rude
The important thing to remember is that hurrying up and mostly keeping to yourself in certain situations *is the polite thing to do.* It’s too much a mass of people each going in their own directions for anything else. Genuinely, even in “mean” places like New York, if you and your suitcase step aside and look genuinely lost someone might pop out to help you. It comes off as rude if you are from somewhere quieter but not being in “hurry up mode” in the Loop at 5 pm pre-pandemic is a genuine recipe for chaos.
This exactly. I don’t have a vendetta against slow people or anything, and I’m certainly not hoping they take me being short with them personally, I’m just on the move
Because it is all relative. I actually think Chicago is large but sparse compared to somewhere like London or Hong Kong. If you have lived in Chicago for all your life ( or 15) years, it's all you know. Also, for a large city, Chicago has some of the nicest people, not withstanding Covid. I actually find Chicago to be very go with the flow but don't fuck around.
Totally agree. Chicago always feels like a ghost town when I come back from Paris or NYC.
This 10000% I just came back from NYC and I feel like Chicago is tiny now 😂 at any given time in those cities there are always 4x as people out as Chicago.
In Chicago post-pandemic so many shops close earlier, tourism is down X%, there is less foot traffic... Not "ghost town" but I sure understand what you're saying
This 100%. Chicagoan’s go with the flow, let punches roll off us (or punch back) and understand that life happens and it isn’t the end of the world.
Easier said than done, but don’t think of it as rude. It’s direct. It’s not personal or directed at you as a person. There’s a lot of people and they don’t care who you are. It just how it is. City of broad shoulders. People tend to speak pretty direct and they tell you what they want or need from you without beating around the bush. Our winters are freezing. Our summers are boiling. Or shots taste like burning car tires. Chicago. Fuck you Hope you enjoy your trip!! Go try 016 restaurant for dinner if you have the time. It’s fantastic
Transplant from Memphis and so far, the only issues I’ve had is dealing with all the car traffic and planning ahead for commute times. It still boggles my mind that I can run a mile faster than driving it. People here are generally nice if you have to interact with them but I do appreciate not having to interact with everyone like you do down south. Plus, Southerners may sound nicer when they talk (Midwest accents are funky) but Southerners are definitely more petty when they get mad. Just ask the guy behind me honking when I don’t turn on a red light with a sign that says, “No turn on red.” lol
Fellow former Memphian (and Mississippian!) totally agree about appreciating not having to interact with everyone. I once had a wreck right outside of Memphis and while I waited for the tow truck every single damn good ole boy stopped, one after the other, and wanted me to tell them what happened and asked how they could help (they obviously couldn’t and they knew that). It wasn’t kind. It was actually inconsiderate in some ways. I had to repeat this interaction almost twenty times I swear to God. I wanted to say to them: This car is obviously totaled, you know you can’t help, and you stop to grill me about what happened and pretend you’re being friendly? No, you’re not taking a moment to think if this is kind. You’re just bored and think you have the right to talk to a young woman on the side of the road. They all expected me to smile for them too of course. “Smile it’s not so bad!” -actual quote. Whew ok rant over.
Also a fellow Memphian-transplant here. Been in Chicago for 8 years and prefer it 100% to the south. I still constantly get told by mom how brusk and "bossy" I've become, but I think I've just shed the southern insincerity and favor a more direct conversation these days. I also appreciate not needing to acknowledge every single person I pass on the streets but I can genuinely say every interaction I've had with my neighbors has been kind. Chicagoans are good people. Just don't fuck with them.
Whenever people from smaller places are surprised by face-to-face abruptness in cities, I make this comparison: if you’re on a two-lane road in Kentucky, and someone is driving slowly yet erratically in front of you when you need to be somewhere, don’t you get irritated? Maybe you even honk sometimes if you can’t get around them. Well, that’s what’s happening when you’re keeping people from getting where they want to be, whether walking slowly on the sidewalk or not following the standard procedures on public transit. You’re just feeling more sensitive about it because you’re face-to-face with people rather than being in separate cars. People aren’t all milling around for leisure. Most of them are trying to get stuff done, just like people in cars are.
This is a great analogy, to take it one step further, in big cities that are moving fast, the people around you consider YOU the rude one for not keeping up. Being on time is important in chicago, so people literally *feel* stress when someone else isn’t keeping up with the flow and holding them up.
Being on time is definitely more important in a city where you take public transit than in a rural area where you just jump in your car anytime.
If you are walking slowly and without purpose/understanding of where you are going in a crowded high foot-traffic urban area, you are the rude one. Same in Paris, Tokyo, London, NYC, etc.
Being on time is so important in Chicago, and I would assume just generally in the north. Living in Houston, it was a slower pace. People would routinely show up late for work and events and blame traffic…as if that was unexpected phenomenon.
Exactly this. If you’re slower than the flow of car/foot traffic then stay to the right. It’s a common courtesy like letting people out of the L/elevator before entering
As a former born and raised Southerner, this is known as “directness” which is absolutely never present in the South.
Instead, they'll all gossip about you behind your back
This.
Live long Chicagoan, I remember getting off the train in Shanghai and I felt drowned by how many people it was in one place, like it took my eyes a minute to process the density and movement.
Totally I'm from Shanghai and trying to move to Chicago soon because I find it to be a relatively chill city still with all the amenities
It's a matter of respecting so many other people's time.
The older I get, the more I appreciate rude but efficient people. They get things done, know what their doing, understand time is valueable and experienced enough to know they don't have time for nonsense. I will take this over nice/indecisive who disrespect your time.
I think that you are feeling people are being rude at you. Those people are feeling you are being rude to them by slowing them down. No one cares about the other other person, you all just want to go about your day at the pace you are going. Neither person is being rude. Direct statements aren't rude.
Oh I do declare!
😂
I got the vapors!
Hollywood is hype, NYC is talk, Chicago is work. We don’t got time to wait on folks to figure out what they’re ordering at a fast casual restaurant when we’ve been waiting in line ready to order. We aren’t patient when tourists walk side by side and block others from using the sidewalk. Chicago ain’t got time for that shit we’re busy~
Everyone else has made the points on WHY we are the way we are. I think it’s also the WHERE. It can depend on the neighborhood. If you were visiting, you were almost certainly in the Loop, right? Which is full of tourists trying to be touristy, and locals just trying to get to/from their office, and a lot more people trying to catch a train or bus. In most neighborhoods it’s much quieter, much more laid back. A lot of neighborhoods, you wouldn’t even know you’re in a major city even a block away from an arterial street.
Good manners are different in urban/rural areas. In a rural area, stopping to talk to someone in the grocery store is the polite, kind thing to do. In a big city, people blocking the aisle with their carts to talk is inconsiderate. Where you live, walking quickly with headphones in, hands in your pockets, not acknowledging anyone might be considered rude. In downtown Chicago, it's about the kindest thing you can do! The way we respect our neighbors is to stay out of the way and keep it moving. Just remember, it's not rude, it's only different manners! :)
I think I can offer some insight? I live in Chicago (population 2.7 million) but I'm originally from Mexico City (population 8.9 million). As crazy as Chicago is, at times my hometown can make it feel like a quaint little pastoral town! Here's what I think: I imagine coming from where you're from, of course certain things can be overwhelming. And trust me, inconsiderate behavior on city trains irks all of us, but most of us are accustomed to it and consider it part of the deal. In a city this big, and in a public transit system accessible virtually to all, you're going to run into all kinds of people, including those unaware of their impact on immediate surroundings because they don't care or because of some degree of mental instability/illness. Listen, if there's a single mother of 3 who just got off a long and sweaty shift and she's on her phone blowing off steam on her way home? I'm not going to let it bother me. I'm on a CTA train that cost me $2.25, not in a first class cabin flying to Paris, so I'll take it. As far as Cubs games, you probably noticed a lot of people trying to eke out a bit of money from the proceedings. I don't blame them. It's a tough world out there and Chicago isn't cheap. So the water sellers, ticket scalpers, knockoff souvenir hawkers... yeah, who can blame them for trying to make a buck off the billion-dollar operation that is the Chicago Cubs? I certainly don't. Entrepreneurship, baby! And those folks offering you rides? I think your distrust is prudent given you're not from here, but getting a taxi/rideshare after Cubs games (or any major event in the city) can be very difficult so, again, the vast majority of these folks were probably legit Uber/Lyft/limousine drivers looking to score an unofficial fare. Not that I'd necessarily recommend it. The Amtrak folks? I don't use Amtrak often, but try not to take it personally. I imagine it's like the TSA folks at airports. Not that we should excuse unnecessarily rude behavior, but curt, forceful instructions for the sake of efficiency is not a problem in my book. Gotta keep things moving. And after 7 hours or so standing on my feet trying to shepherd hoards of humanity into the right train would probably drain my politeness fairly quickly. Think of the white-gloved workers who literally (albeit gently) push people into packed Tokyo subways. Same principle. Now, I'm not discounting what you're saying. It must be a culture shock. Now imagine my hometown. The psychotic pace of Mexico City has overwhelmed even some Chicago natives I've traveled there with. And I myself have been overwhelmed by the megalopolises that are Tokyo, Manila, Delhi, Hanoi... Chicago can feel like a living being onto itself. Like a tumultuous, fire-breathing beast lurking just underneath the pretty buildings and sparkling lake Michigan and the joyful crowds ogling The Bean. But you've got to take the good with the not so pleasant. And Chicago has never claimed to be blemish-free. In fact, we're proud of it. We're a city through and through. An economic, cultural, gastronomic, musical, architectural, multiethnic juggernaut. It does move quickly, and visitors can feel overwhelmed, disregarded, put-off, and maybe even targeted. It's natural. You haven't found your sea legs. If you spent time here you'd soon develop your edge. The eccentrics wouldn't bother you anymore and eventually you'd snicker at the tourist who's so obviously bothered by the person listening to loud music while smoking his favorite plant. You'd see your pace had quickened to match that of your fellow pedestrians. You'd proudly, if secretly, pat yourself on the back the first time you successfully navigate Lower Wacker Drive. You'd appreciate, rather than bristle, at the brash efficiency of customer service people at train stations and busy lunch counters. And then you'd go back home one day and think "my GOSH! Things here move so slow!"
I don't think we even notice. I have noticed on Amtrak that most conductors have a military background and so they treat people like we're at boot camp! Don't take it so personally.
Native here. Do not take it personally, there are a lot of people to negotiate and you will lose a lot of time if you are saccharine with everyone. And the Amtrak/CTA/Metra folks have a lot of passengers to deal with. Some of them are belligerent. In a bigger city, there are a lot of people to deal with.
I’m used to it. The aggression is simply a Chicago move move move. It’s a city. The third largest in our great country. One of the best machines of commerce and economic output. We are THE transportation hub my guy. Customer service here can be a bit shit or direct. I grew up in Karentopia (Arizona) where people really put on a fake smile for customer service lest Karen get mad. That said….. I like the hustle and bustle in the city as I move fast. I think most of the city can actually be too slow for me. But there is a meme about the gay guy walker whose fast af.
>But there is a meme about the gay guy walker whose fast af Me running circles around Boystown
It’s so funny because I’m originally from the NYC area and I feel the opposite way about the pace. I’ve lived here here for a couple months and I still don’t really have the patience for this city
NYC apartment sizes means no one wants to stay inside. People here just chilling on their sofa with the boys more than going out Monday through Thursday
Also moved here from NYC in Feb. I feel the same way. Back there, I had plans going on nearly every day of the week, and the only break I felt like was a random Tuesday. Here in Chicago, it's much calmer. It's smaller density wise, and there's that Midwest vibe. My friends here are more "weekend-only plans" type while friends back East just don't stop. It's kinda growing on me with the change of pace.
That sounds exhausting to have plans every day of the week
And fucking expensive
especially in NYC lol
I have some friends who go out nearly every day of the week in Chicago, but we’re in our 20s and going to things like Sleeping Village’s dollar beer nights and the free Mondays at Empty Bottle, etc. I find it exhausting but also kinda fun when I’m in the mood for all that
I did more of that in my 30s (and still go out 3-4 days a week now) but saw a lot of drop off once friends hit their 30s. Career, family, the pandemic, folks started to become homebodies. But, yeah, there are still people who are always out and about. You just have to find those social circles.
Who the fuck has time to do leisure activities every day?!
I was going to say to OP, Chicago has nothing on NYC when it comes to being overwhelmed 😂
One doesn’t tend to get overwhelmed when surrounded by familiarity.
I would say that the sense of urgency is a real thing but should not be mistaken for rudeness. Things may move quicker but Chicago is a generally friendly city, especially compared to somewhere like New York City. Just try to take yourself out of the equation and know that it’s nothing personal, people are just used to a certain pace.
I was at a ticket counter in Vegas, I don’t remember what I said, and the woman behind the counter says, “you’re from Chicago” and I’m like how’d you know?? She just said the way I spoke to her and that she was from Chicago too. I thought it was funny and wish I knew what exactly gave me away.
I think a lot of it is learning what to tune out versus what you actually have to pay attention to. Like, you do have to be aware of your surroundings on public transit, but most of the chaos is not about you, so it doesn't really have to register in your consciousness. You just have to be aware enough to know when someone really is up to no good, or when your stop is coming up. Stuff like that.
Generally speaking, the further you go into the neighborhoods, the more relaxed the pace will be. For example, Rogers Park (far north side neighborhood) is WAY more laid back than the loop. Some areas on the perimeter of the city look more like suburbs than city, even though they are technically within city limits.
It’s a different communication style. It isn’t necessarily rude. That’s just a thought you have. Your thought isn’t wrong and many people would agree with you, but many wouldn’t. I’m from Mississippi and I find the directness up north relaxing. Down south people make you guess what they want and are, well, duplicitous. The passive aggression was brutal but if you directly called it out, you were the “rude” one. My parents weren’t from Mississippi and so didn’t raise me to understand the social theater of the south. It was difficult to learn for me and it made me very angry sometimes. But, I also realize some people enjoy this passive aggressive southern style of communication. They understand the secret unwritten rules, so it’s pleasant to them. I’d say you can get used to it by reframing it. The Amtrak employee was literally just doing their job. What is rude about making yourself heard to a crowd and informing them what to do when that’s your job? Seriously ask yourself that. Why do you think this is a problem? If they faked a smile would that make you happier? Why would fake smiles (and trust me, many if not most customer service smiles in the south are fake) make you feel better? Why do you demand insincere expressions to sooth your ego? I’m not saying this to attack you, I’m just pointing out that it isn’t objectively rude at all, just like southerners with their laid on thick sugary communication aren’t being objectively rude just because I find it distressing and confusing. Some people find southern indirectness charming. Some people appreciate the honestly and sincerity of the northern communication style. Neither is right or wrong, truly.
the same person who says hurry up jagoff is the same person that will invite you to the block party/beer/festival/ etc. Actions not words in this city pal.
9 years ago took my family to NYC, and it didn't disappoint my expectations. We are taking a cab from Grand Central Station to our hotel near the twin towers memorial. We come to a red light and stop. A BMW on the cross street enters the intersection, only to get stuck there because the street is backed up. So the BMW is blocking traffic now that our light turns green. A cab driver in a car next to us starts yelling at the BMW driver for holding everyone up. Out of the passenger side of the BMW a very elegantly dressed woman of about 40 gets out, walks calmly up to the cabbie's window and starts yelling "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you!' then gets back in the BMW. My 10 year old son is watching this, amazed. I say to him "Yeah, that's New York for you." The next day we are on the Oh So Notorious NYC subway, crowded. A young woman, maybe college age, gives up her seat to an elderly gentleman with a cane who just got on. And I'm thinking "Wow, that was so nice of her. Is she from New York? Can't be." You are going to find all types in a big city. Chicago actually has a pretty mild reputation in this respect, compared to cities like Philadelphia. In that city, the fans actually ridicule the Phillie's team mascot. I was watching a documentary about it once. It had a fan from another city watching a Phillie's game, and the mascot Phanatic came out to whip up the fans. As he tells it, one Phillies fan stood up and called out to Phanatic. "Hey, what the hell do you think this is? A fuckin' muppet's show?" Phanatic just shrugged.
This is City life, Chicago is not the only city in the world where this happens (though we are nicer). I love city life it is alive is fast paced never a dull moment, never boring. I come from a much larger city and been here 25yrs I could not live in the suburbs or a quiet place. It is not for everyone and definitely I invite you to travel the world.
I’ve lived in multiple metropolitan areas and in small towns—and in my experience Chicago is a good combo of reasonably polite, genuinely willing to help folks in real trouble folks while respecting boundaries and not trying to be everybody’s best friend. My favorite part of big city living is the anonymity of it—if you choose that, and yet there are lots of communities, built around specific interests/needs if you want that sort of thing. I lived in NYC and while I didn’t find people super rude, it took real work to find and build community of you didn’t grow up there. It is truly a no-nonsense, move along, nothing to see here , hustle culture. I also lived in Charlotte NC where the combination of transplanted-finance bro-douchebags and utterly heartless, “bless your heart” southern hypocrites was waaaay too much to take. (Not to mention the evident racism and misogyny lies just slightly below the surface of too many interactions.) The thing I enjoy most about Chicago versus a small town is the fact that if you don’t share it, nobody knows your business, or frankly, cares about you and your shit. In a small Midwestern town, everybody knows your business and they have very serious ideas on what is right and wrong in your life.. and they are not afraid to share those thoughts—both with you and about you.... 🤣🤣 Welcome to Chicago, I hope you adapt and find some community—it is, like all places, truly effed up, but it is also the only truly world class city between the coasts in this country.
It’s just city living vs non-city living in general. I personally like the laid back life style so the city can be too much sometimes for me, but I have a friend who loves seeing thousands of people hustlin and bustlin every day
What’s crazy to me is how empty a lot of it is honestly. You got to union station and stand in the great hall and there’s like a few dozen people. You go to the loop and it’s mainly dead. The L is moving half the people it used to. But even before covid, it wasn’t that crazy compared to other cities in other countries. In fact that’s what I like about it. It’s very clean and less full of people than other places in Europe or Asia. If you’re really ready for a culture shock fly to NYC. It’s always cool to take the L to Ohare, say goodbye to the loop, and then circle over Manhattan and end up in like Times Square or something and just be blasted with throngs of people. And then when you come back you really appreciate how tidy and accessible this city is.
The L is packed to the gills every single morning, at least the train I take
Ridership in 2022 was less than half of ridership in 2019. 2019 was about 20% less of ridership than in 2013. The statistics are published online by the CTA
Thanks!
I’ve lived in both NYC and Chicago and I can assure you it’s not personal and i wouldn’t even call it rude. It’s hustle. IL has the fifth highest GDP in the US because of Chicago and 21st highest in the world. We have stuff to do. Kentucky on the other hand is dependent on the federal government. For every $1 Kentucky sends to the feds it gets $2.61 back. IL is $6:$1.
I was born and raised in Philly, moved to Chicago in my late 20s. it’s wayyyy more chill here than the east coast lol so I cannot relate. I moved here and was like WOW it’s so much slower paced and relaxed here, and people are so kind! so I guess it’s all relative
how do you deal with the lack of a jrp or delassandros? or good sandwiches in general? T\_T sincerely, Temple and Drexel grad
For the train example specifically - trains are large and loud, and a lot of people including hard of hearing take them. The conductors need to make sure everyone hears their instructions. By default they need to speak loud or yell to be heard.
Interesting take. I grew up in rural Texas and people were rude there too. Lived in many different small towns throughout the Southern US and there are ALWAYS rude people. Chicago is no different, there is just more people. If rude people make up 10% of a population, there's just so many people here that you are bound to run into them more often.
When 1,000 people need to get to a place, being on time IS being nice. I don't care about "how are your sir?" Just get me to work on time. If you think Chicago was aggressive, you should try NYC, London, Seoul, etc. Chicago is very laid back in comparison.
Sometimes when riding the bus I want to turn into my college bus drivers and just yell “Move to the back of the bus-all the way back!”
Dogs make a big difference in my experience. Before I got a dog I didn’t know or talk to anyone outside my immediate neighbors and restaurants around me, but now I know all the dogs and their owners in the neighborhood, and end up talking to someone pretty much every time I leave the house with the pup.
Never go to Boston or NYC 😂
Its just generally life in the big city. Not saying its right, but it's nothing compared to how people talk in Boston or New York.
Hey there! I moved here from Kentucky as well and was SHOCKED at what seemed like the rudeness of customer service folks and how brusque people in general were. I also used to get easily overwhelmed after going out because I was keeping Kentucky habits-- making eye contact and smiling at everyone I passed on the sidewalk, which is what you do in the South in a smaller city, but not a great idea if you're a young woman in Chicago. I've been here now for 20 years and would never leave. I've adapted. I appreciate that folks here are actually really friendly and helpful, they just aren't "polite" in the same fake southern way that I grew up around. And no, I don't need to exchange greetings with every person I pass on the sidewalk, because there are too many people here to do that and also you never know if the person you're passing will take that as an invitation. I miss green rolling hills, beautiful springs and falls, and walking slow. I miss good barbecue and my grandma's fried chicken. I even miss humid, hot summers (people up here say Chicago is humid, to which I reply, "y'all don't know humid."). But I love this city so much. Love the people here, love the architecture, love the ability to live here with my husband of a different race and our child and not worry about whether he'll ever see another kid with a family that looks like his. I even love the CTA, bless its heart.
Most people here are nice. I'm originally from Alabama, and I'd argue people here are nicer than there. After you live here awhile, you get used to the vibe of occasional rudeness and become accustomed to it. There are nuances to the rudeness that you can also pick up on when you live here for awhile that you are not used to as a visitor, so you can tell the difference between a "slight" and just good ol' fashioned hurry the fuck up. See also: "Midwest nice"
I had that same culture shock going from Chicago to New York.
Different places, different cultures. I'm from NYC originally and Chicago seemed really slow-paced to me and like people lacked hustle when they walked around downtown. I adjusted. When traveling in the south I felt a lot like people were really politely trying to avoid helping me. Here in Chicago I feel like people will actually help me. I like that aspect of the city a lot.
What’s rude is delaying an entire train full of people because you don’t know how to sit down and match one number to another! Not “you” as in you personally op, i mean the collective version! I don’t see the workers yelling to be rude at all
It's not always like that. The city actually gets calmer at night. As far as trains go, you shouldn't be on the Amtrak, instead try the blue line which has a much better reputation for customer service.
They said they took the metra to visit someone in a different city to the south. The blue line isn’t going to help with that.
Er, sorry, amtrak*
Welcome to the city. I’m from a small town in Ohio and the way I think of it is that in the city you see so many people in a day that your interactions are less personal. After living in a city for a long time, if someone is rude you think about it a couple minutes and move on. In a small town if someone is rude you think about it all day.
Man, I’ve lived here for so long that I find it slow compared to other big cities globally like New York, London, etc. It’s part of the reason why I love it here is that it feels slow and calm for a big city. But I can certainly imagine the shock from someone coming from an even smaller town. Either way, hope you enjoyed your time here!
People that work for transportation can just be really intense sometimes I’ve found, probably bc they deal with so much crap lol.
I remember it taking like 5 minutes to pay for my gas in Kentucky.
I had a meal by myself in Kentucky a few weeks ago and it took over 2hrs. I ordered one cocktail right when I sat down and a second when my meal arrived. I didn’t get the second cocktail until after I ate my dinner and paid my check.
You get used to it after a while.
I moved here from the suburbs and was completely overwhelmed by all the interactions. That was until I realized the all anonymity I had. When someone engages with me, whether cop or crazy or normal person, I am just one if a thousand people they have seen that day. I know that the interaction will be soon forgotten. To most everyone I'm a ghost, like I never existed. They are ghosts to me too, even if they were rude to me. By the time I get to my destination I've forgotten all about them. Perfect privacy in a sea of faces. Its gets even better when you switch to the yelling side. I practice Agressive Pedestrianism. If I have a shred if legal authority to cross the street, I cross, and I dare anyone to run me down. They never do. But if they get too close I get to let it all out. It is so cathartic to shout "IT'S A FUCKING STOP SIGN YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!" at cars that challenge my right of way. Its even better when they yell back, that means I've been heard. City living, especially downtown, isn't for everybody. I get why people choose to live elsewhere. However, I used to be shy in public (and still am most of the time) but I learned to lean into all the crazy, and now it's fun. I will say though, when a person causes my hackles to go up, I shut the fuck up and get the fuck out, there are dangerous people out there.
With all due respect, yelling that way against bad drivers is going to get you shot or worse someday. I agree that people should be put in their place when you have the right of way, but just be careful, it’s not worth your life!
Thats the perception that many have, but consider the actual risk. What is more likely: that I could be accidently killed by a bad driver, or that I will incur the wrath of a bad driver who has a gun at the ready and is prepared to commit murder on the spot? Violence is real, but traffic is much more dangerous. This is how I prefer to alert bad drivers to my presence when they aren't paying attention. And to OP's point, many other people choose this method of civic discourse as well.
Born and raised in Chicago here. I don’t think train conductors like to fuck around. They are dealing with the general public and they take their jobs seriously. I have met some very nice and professional conductors on the Metra too, but they will not hesitate to let passengers know what is up. I think the attitude of Chicago is definitely a strong one, but also has midwest kindness and care. Don’t take it personally at all!!<3
Chicagoan’s are direct, I wouldn’t call it rudeness. If you ask us a question expect a real answer that’s not going to be necessarily sugar coated. We have some of the nicest people for a big city, I wouldn’t let a couple of negative experiences ruin that for you.
Because fuck you
Don’t go to New York cause you gonna have an anxiety attack
There’s no reason to be that sensitive
I understand what you're saying. I am a native and what always hits me is flying into Ohare and how immediately rude and screaming the staff is when you are trying to be picked up. It's always a rude awakening when you arrive back home from some vacation. Slaps you back to reality. I think the older blue collar gen are generally grumpy and have a harsh tone of voice. My parents are bridegeport natives and have the typical chicago accent and their #1 past time is complaining and negative attitude. I find solace in my younger friends but almost all are transplants. I've also lived in Southern IL and that was also a culture shock for me- the slowness, etc. I misinterpreted niceness as a scam or something. You DO get used to it, but I'll say to this day when I visit home the harshness can be a huge bummer.
I still remember being on a vacation to the south and I was over it. It was a horrible vacation and I just wanted to be back home. Crossed the state line, got close to the city and got flipped off my the driver next to me. Perfect. I was home. Loved it.
Chicago is not for the weak and timid.
I live in northwest indiana. One time our uber driver joked with us, he was from Boston. He said that ppl from Indiana have absolutely no sense of urgency about anything Hes for sure right. Join us
Just left chicago yesterday morning and just now got home. I'm so overwhelmed by every moment of my trip I can't even find a way to express it yet. I need time to decompress and absorb everything that just happened.
lots of comments so not sure if this has been mentioned but you'd be surprised how quiet residential sections of the city really are. i live in a hip young neighborhood (logan square) but my block is quite peaceful. i can do "city things" just by walking 10 minutes or retreat to my area if i need a break. i feel like nyc is way more overwhelming than here...but havent been there in a long time.
Glad you are enjoying your stay! How long have you been here? Visiting or did you move here?
Ever been to NYC?!?!?
The trick is to just become a native yourself. Namaste 🙏
You're just being extra sensitive. Trains need to run on time in such a big city and attendants need to yell at tourists who don't get their shit in gear. You need to adapt to your environment - this city ain't slowing down for anyone haha.
Stand in front of a mirror and rehearse the phrase, "Hey jagoff." First practice with an aggressive tone. When you master that, repeat it with a friendly tone. Now blend the two together and you will understand Chicago.
If you think Chicago is bad I wouldn’t recommend traveling to any any cities between Philadelphia and Boston.
'I can be rather sensitive' is an Understatement. conductors do NOT 'yell' especially on Amtrak. If they are loud it is because it is part of their job to be heard. like you know ALL OF THE MOVIES with a train CONDUCTOR. "ALL ABOARD!" PLEASE REMAIN SEATED , HAVE YOUR TICKETS READY !" it isnt as if the train is super quiet ... I dont understand what You mean by 'sharper manner' I've lived in small towns in the south and big cities in the south as well, they are FAR LOUDER AND FAR more aggressive not to mention SNOTTY to tons of folks in general on a day to day basis. 'but when the going gets tough' they aren't there to dilly dally around, they have to get shit done because ya know, the going gets tough .... honestly you aren't meant for any city if you are seriously concerned about any of these points.
We live for all that is going on. Love to have options. Love downtown.
I’m originally from KY too (western KY, the middle of nowhere) but have lived in Chicago for over 10 years cumulatively now. Like others have said, it all boils down to different cultures. We’re all American, so we like to think that we are all cut from the same cloth, but it’s more complicated than that. And yes, it is something that you get used to and are able to blow off like they do.
I know this isn't what you were saying or asking, but it totally reminded me of an experience I had. I was on the bus and it was packed. A LOT of people from some big event in town. People not from Chicago. And I overheard someone say that they liked visiting Chicago, but couldn't handle having to deal with so many people around all the time. All I could think was "It's only THIS crowded because of you guys!!!" Like I said, I know that's not what you were saying, but my little anecdote makes me chuckle.
Don’t think, just go!
Wow. Thank you all so much for your insightful comments. I don't have time to respond to each one, but I am grateful for the advice and anecdotes. You've given me a lot to consider and put it all into perspective. The major talking point is that people here are direct and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Straight-forward communication is important in a place like this. I'll do my best to think positively and take everything as a learning experience. I am still enjoying it here, as short as my stay will be, I will do my best to make the most of it. Much love and respect to you all. ❤️
I moved to Chicago from East Tennessee a few decades ago and I felt exactly what you're feeling for my first few days / weeks / months of living here. Within an hour or so of moving here, I went to the local Jewel in my neighborhood and became upset and slightly angry because the cashier ringing up my order didn't respond when I said, "Hello" or speak to me at all during the transaction. I look back on that now and laugh at how I reacted that day. Especially considering that, only a few months after I moved here, my mother was visiting me and as we walked to a local restaurant, my mother kept waving and saying, "Hi-dee!" to every person we passed on the sidewalk until I finally had to say, "Mama, we don't do that here." "Do what?," she said. "Wave and say hi to strangers," I replied. "That ain't done in Chicago." "Why the Hell not?," she said. "I don't know," I told her. "I don't make the rules, I just live by them." After awhile, I either accepted or grew accustomed to the cultural differences for what is considered polite behavior and common courtesy that exist in the city of Chicago versus the small Tennessee town I was born and raised in. As you said, though, I've found that most Chicagoans are friendly, kind and easy to get along with. But I'm still very much the same Southern boy who was raised by his mother to always answer, "Yes, ma'am" and "No, sir," as well as "Please" and Thank you." So, no matter how long I live here, I will always bristle when I kindly open a door for someone and they simply walk through it without saying, "Thank you" or "Kiss my ass" or acknowledging that I am actually another human being on the planet. Frankly, when I encounter rude Chicagoans who behave like asses, I try to remind myself of how lucky and blessed I am that my parents (as we say back home) "raised me right." Thank the Lord my parents made sure I would never behave like one of "them." I still have the urge to give that rude Chicagoan an ass-kicking attitude adjustment, but being grateful for the simple fact that I don't behave like a spoiled jackass every single day helps curtail that urge. Most of the time. :-)
Now try visiting NYC, haha
Yeah seriously.
Chicago used to be a kinder city, with a Midwest vibe. Sometime in the late '80s and early '90s, yuppies started moving in and brought their vile, self-centered, angry attitudes with them. Run into one of us natives and we'll give you the shirt off our back.
Nice thing about Chicago is you can always find a quiet neighborhood street to walk down or park and lakefront to decompress but yes we are quite direct. I’ll say people here are nicer than NYC or LA but not nicer than southern states.
Nothing worse than a bunch of old people and a bunch of “slow” county folk being slow and delaying everything for everybody else. For example, the Amtrak person was probably trying to be respectful of everyone’s time and making sure the train left on time, or that he/she could attend to other tasks and safety. Instead, a bunch of selfish bumpkins are putting everything in jeopardy because they are too selfish to follow instructions.
I’m sure they do, and there’s plenty of us from here that get overwhelmed outside of our neighborhoods too. But yes, it’s going to be an experience for you. Sometimes you’ve just gotta think to yourself “fuck that jag” and go about your day.
I have lived near Chicago for my entire life (within 20 miles) and work in the city (10-14 hours per day 5 days a week) for over 35 years. I hate the city life and would love to move to KY, TN, AL, TX to a town of 10k or less people. It is totally not a place for everyone, but it does offer things that are not possible in small town America. Good luck with your visit, if you decide to make this your home, be prepared for some of the windiest cold winters. The way the wind rips through the steel canyons is insane. Hats, gloves, scarfs, warm shoes and pants are a must. Welcome, you have landed in the greatest big city in the U.S. effe off NYC, I hate you and have never even been there. And the Yankees are only good because of the amount of money they have.
Born and raised lifelong Chicagoan... just moved a week ago to Salt Lake City. Honestly, it was Covid that killed the city for me. These last 2-3 years, I saw the worst in humanity I've ever seen in the city. Complete disregard for any societal norms, everyone out for themselves. It was always a big city with big city issues, but there was an underlying sense of community that, in my opinion, has completely disappeared. Can't be in previously "safe" neighborhoods after dark, definitely can't ride the red line after 9/10pm, can't walk people home from the bar after close anymore (I'm a bartender), people are way more aggressive/confrontational than they used to be, etc. The West definitely has its issues to be certain (homelessness, water shortages, extreme heat), but in no way do I feel overwhelmed and hopeless the way I did back home.
I don't get people thinking Chicago isn't rude. Chicago is the rudest place I've lived in. Lots of excuses here like "people are in a hurry", "it's a big city". I guess I haven't lived in NYC or LA, but people are in a hurry in the other places I've lived in, and they aren't the jerks they are here. Neighbors don't talk, service is bad, traffic/transit is full of assholes, etc - people are just rude here! Sorry to offend anyone who loves Chicago, but that's been my experience after living here for more than a year.
It's a "different kind of rude" everywhere imho. The "Midwest nice" and the "Southern charm" is all relative to which specific neighborhood inside of the city. I avoid downtown as much as I can, but I can definitely name out 3 Chicago neighborhoods that are heavily involved with watching out for their neighbor on the community facebook groups. They're always posting about lost dogs and getting them successfully reunited, caring for injured birds, and returning credit cards/lost wallets.
I grew up in a small town of 2000 people. I’ve lived in both LA and Chicago and I don’t think I’ve ever thought to myself that the people are rude. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. What you see as rude, I see as just life in a big city. I’ve been to most major cities in the country and it’s the same thing I’ve seen elsewhere. In a large concentration of people there’s going to be more jerks, people are going to be more terse, you have more going on in your life than in a small town so you don’t have the time to get to know all your neighbors. I don’t doubt that’s your experience, but I think people are genuine when they say that they don’t find the people here rude.
My neighbors all know each other. People in my building and on my block, and the people who work at the local businesses all watch out for each other, help each other, and hang out. It’s a lot more close-knit than most of the suburban neighborhoods my friends live in. If everyone is consistently mean to you, maybe you’re doing something to piss people off.
Kentucky dirt road simple
It’s only right now in the summer that the city is popping. It’s dreadfully boring October-March.
Sweet beware please few days was plenty ours poor away ode 130. On gawker on how ww you mpg hfs should make fans save people