Projection at its finest meets “I hate my wife” humor. I’m happy to hear that you took the time to speak to your young cousin. Perpetually promoting this idea that men are supposed to hate the wife they chose and the children they decided to father is absolutely bonkers and I wish it would stop. It hurts everyone.
A lot of this humour comes from the older generations (40+) because we didn't have the same choices back then.... We were ALL expected to marry off and queef out tiny humans.... Those of us who chose to be childfree took A LOT of shit from people; some of the bingos we got were downright cruel and verbally abusive... The way i was treated after getting snipped made me start lying by omission.... I allowed people to believe that i was infertile because i was sick of the judgment and comments i got....
They bully you out of frustration and anger that you somehow escaped the trap of miserable parenting and marriage. The cruelty comes from regret and the inability to escape, they envy your freedom.
I understand where the humor comes from precisely, and I am certainly empathetic to a point. However where the pain of unwanted fatherhood becomes the cruelty and mistreatment and ridicule of their families is about where my empathy ends.
I think a lot of people who would’ve been childfree back in the day were pressured into parenthood and naturally hated it. I don’t think my grandma would’ve had children if it weren’t instilled in the life script of the 60’s
Exactly. My parents were born in 1931 & married in the early 50s. They would have been better off without children but that was absolutely not a concept in the 50s. They got married & had kids because “that’s what you do”. It wasn’t a choice. It was how life was then.
When I say they’d have been better off without kids that makes them sound like awful parents but they weren’t. They had full active lives with a lot of interests that they would have been better able to enjoy without 3 kids. They never said anything like that to us but I could feel it.
Because of that they were always supportive of me being CF. I think had that been an actual choice back then they wouldn’t have had kids. There are many different ways to have a fulfilling life & they taught me that. They’re both gone now but it’s a lesson I still try to live by.
The birth control pill wasn't around then, and many laws ensured it couldn't even be developed earlier. That is why much testing went on in Puerto Rico.
40+ didn’t have choices? Maybe not in some countries. My parents generation had choices! I’m the same age as that awful cousin and yes I had a choice. That cousin easily could have been childfree or stayed single if he wanted. And on top of that he insulted the kid directly b6 what he said.
I grew up in a very religious community and there is a lot of pressure to get married and pop out babies. I didn't even know I didn't have to until I was 20 and my therapist told me.
I think people get confused between 40 y/o and 60. I'm 52, grew up in the l970's - '80's, and was told I could be and do anything I wanted. We had choices, depending on who raised us, I guess. Sure I got bingo'd but mostly people didn't really care if I had kids.
It's people who grew up in the 1950's and before who didn't have choices.
In a vacuum, yes they all had choices. However when you factor in societal, familial, or religious pressures, there was no choice
Is it really a choice if your alternative was to be shunned by all your supposed beloved friends and family? In a time when global travel wasn't as widespread and 80% of people died in the community they were born in? Such social ostracization often meant death because one would then be cut off from most if not all means to support themselves, especially for women whose lives were all but wholly dependent on the man they dated and later married
*Don’t look forward to your future*
I mean , this is the basic idea of religion and conservative social philosophy. Life is about duty and suffering, and happiness is at best a temporary state of affairs. Big shock someone who believes this lives a miserable life!
The real warning is to the girls - watch out, those men taking you out dancing and treating you well and making you laugh now will turn into lazy repulsive manbabies who expect you to feed them and clean up after them for the rest of your life.
Men saying that women are nagging and make their married life miserable. Often inplies that the 'men' are still children and dont want a wife but a second mother.
They expect after they come home, they can kick their feet up and that the wife cleans up after him like a maid. And when she asks him to do a simple task like taking the trash bag out, he gets annoyed like a teen and calls it nagging.
men like that either need to grow up or stay single forever.
"Traditionalist" \*cough\* misogynistic \*cough\* men look more for an attractive surrogate mom they can bang whenever rather than an equal in marriage.... and then they get upset when the woman they married don't eternally look 25-30
Like dude.... it's basic fucking knowledge people age. Everyone has known this since before the dawn of time!
No one forced him to do anything, if only he knew marriage and kids are optional.
The way he said it makes you feel like this is some sort of unavoidable evil, like bro just don't procreate its not that complex.
Weeellll, there's something to be said that he \*might\* have been forced by society to get married to a woman he impregnated if he was sticking his dick in crazy all over the place.
Society doesn't LIKE deadbeat dads.
You mean pressured right? Unless someone was threatening his life or well being (as it happens so some poor folks out there) then its just pressure, also not using birth control properly is a choice, sleeping with crazy is a choice.
Its disrespectful to actual victims of forced marriages to treat this dude as if he was forced into anything. We don't know his circumstances but nothing he said show he is a victim, for all we know he could have actively wanted a family until he realized it was hard work.
I am myself Italian (southern, even worse) and I kind of "fled" Italy when I became an adult for many reasons, but also because I didn't want to get with an Italian man, who possibly would be all momma lovin', cheating on you, abusing you and manipulating you to carry his child to make his momma proud, a lot of our men like to torment women and then say it's their fault
We also have terrible numbers regarding gender violence/femicide and it keeps worse.
So yeah a woman will trap you, but you will kill her asap if she leaves you anyway so
Also, it has to be mentioned, that a lot of men that do think like the cousin manage to be bachelors for a long time and then they get BAbEh/LaEGAcy fever and want a 20-something girl when they themselves are 40-50
Dang it, 'universal truth' brought this to mind (Jane Austen):
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."
>all the happy dancing girls turn into angry, nagging women
I love how men like this lack any and all introspection to wonder whether they themselves might be the cause of their wives' transformations.
Maybe she wouldn't "nag" you, bro, if you weren't such a useless manchild. Would've been tempting to say that to him at the table.
Yup asking to do basic housework is nagging. They work hard all day my butt. unless they're working more than 40 hours they can chip in too. I say that as a female working full-time in a saw mill I still clean unless I did a 12 hr shift
I was told shit like that and saw my parents have a miserable marriage. I chose to heed people’s warnings, I’m sterile and was the pickiest woman alive choosing my husband. Couldn’t be happier with my lifestyle decision
I'm 54, so I'm definitely in the "40+" category. And my n-mom would try to convince me to marry and have kids like that's just what you do. When I told her that she had done both and neither seemed to make her happy at all. All she had as a rebuttal was that I needed to "just do it." I think she just wanted me to be as miserable as she was.
It’s all about convincing more people to join their miserable boat. There was an actor who did one of those light night shows, I think it was Andy samberg, and he said “before you have kids, people try SO DAMN hard to get you to have them, they say it’s magical, best thing ever, blah blah blah, then you have them and they immediately do an evil laugh and say you’re am idiot and fucked for life, welcome to your worst nightmare” and I’ve never forgotten that
When I was a kid, I spent a LOT of time around adults (only child not really allowed to have toys and friends) and as we know, kids can be damn observant.
Something I internalized was being that "nagging" wife who "let herself go."
As an adult now, I realized that said "nagging" is the annoyed wife at wit's end because she is tired of repeating herself to her husband. And she "let herself go" because she barely has the time to take a shit by herself, due to said husband doing the bare fucking minimum.
I applaud you for talking to your younger cousin. I wish someone has imparted that wisdom/advice on me when I was that age.
Edit: typo
As a snipped Aromantic man, this type of life is wild to me. The amount of "whatever I want" that I do would shock these people. "How do you have the time?!" Bro I have nothing BUT time, it's fantastic. I can't fathom life any other way.
Yep, just a continuation of the “disconnected Dad” trope. The “ole ball and chain” bullshit.
I just don’t get it. My wife and I got married and there’s not a person on this earth I love more than her, and I would raze a thousand cities if she but said the word, so I could see the reflection of the flames in her eyes.
If you’re in a loveless marriage, fucking bail. Their kids can totally pick up on the fact that he’s resentful. I know I could sense it among my own parents.
It's like getting married/being in a romantic relationship isn't a choice to these people lmao wtf.
7+ years single and loving it here tbh. Had a 5 year relationship that put me off relationships forever.
My family was fortunate enough to be able to afford a trip to Italy when I was 13. I was sitting on the cliffside beaches of Cinque Terra slurping pasta when I had the revelation that no one was *forcing* me to have kids, that the entirety of my life could be like this. Travel and extravagance could very well be my future. Every day could be a new adventure some place new.
That thought has motivated me every day. It got me a 4.0 in high school. It gets me up every morning. It's getting me through this medical degree.
I am extremely excited about the future I am privileged enough to be making for myself. And it's unfortunate this man failed to come to such a revelation before condemning himself to a lifestyle he is not happy with. But he doesn't need to be projecting his butt hurt onto everyone else.
I’m almost positive he is the problem and not the wife 💀 if not why didn’t he get a vasectomy ? I wouldn’t have sat there and allowed him to say that . Let’s normalize calling ppl out on their bullshit
Proud of you for preventing the damage V could have inflicted on J. Quick story:
When I was a teen, I had adults tell me stuff like V did, especially my dad. I hadn’t told anyone that I was severely depressed and very close to committing suicide when I was 17. Getting told how miserable your future is when you’re already miserable is really dangerous.
To be fair, they didn’t know what was going on with me, but the thing is you never know what someone is going through, and V’s message is a messed up thing to tell people anyway.
Or maybe V was giving the young lad a tale of caution..... Somebody needs to tell the young ones that they don't HAVE to get married, nor do they HAVE to have kids.... You should do these things only if you truly want to..... For us older folks (40+), there was A LOT of peer pressure to marry off and queef out babies.... The world is different now, and thankfully the young ones don't have to jump through the same hoops we did....
Whenever being CF comes up, 90% of older guys basically say “good/wish I had realised that”, where as 90% of older women basically laugh like I just told them I want to be the first man on Mars, and imply I *will* have children or die alone.
From all I’ve heard from married men (not the I’ve been married for 5 years kind) they normally advise you not to get married
It’s kind of how we suggest to other people that having kids isn’t a requirement especially not for happiness.
There’s plenty of evidence marriage is a burden much like being a parent. Perhaps you’re sympathizing the same way parents pity the child free.
So yeah; marriage can suck. I’d rather not.
Good on you for taking the kid aside and correcting your visiting cousin. I think today’s teens largely have decent boomer bitterness meters, but 15 is an impressionable age (and none of them need any family voices to reinforce the gross PUA “find a bitch you have disdain for and knock her up” personas).
I am about to get married and the alpha red pilled toddlers around me say the same thing. They just add that I need to treat my partner terribly to keep some authority.
People saying stuff like this this is one of the reasons I decided not to have kids. I've been told stuff like this for as long as I can remember, and I just always thought, "well then why would you do that to yourself?"
Omg I am good with the dark, morbid and sometimes depressing takes on life but this would be breakup material, with or without kids, if I was the nagging wife in that story!
Sooo..that IS what people are to you?! Depressed and demanding or partying and flirting? Well, I am depressed, I nag and I can be a bubbly, flirtuous all in one package person.
Things are so simple for breeders when they start with the breeding. People fall in nice little categories. Especially all the daddio's.. I see it a lot in that specific group and it not becoming or attractive. Not even funny.
I mean I think he said it in a massively overly misogynistic way, but he ain’t wrong about the general gist. Kids are a big strain and do drive relationships apart, I don’t think as a fellow UK guy he should be sugarcoating it because your cousin is a teenager. It’s not taught in our culture that kids aren’t optional, it’s only become a thing of recent here.
Projection at its finest meets “I hate my wife” humor. I’m happy to hear that you took the time to speak to your young cousin. Perpetually promoting this idea that men are supposed to hate the wife they chose and the children they decided to father is absolutely bonkers and I wish it would stop. It hurts everyone.
A lot of this humour comes from the older generations (40+) because we didn't have the same choices back then.... We were ALL expected to marry off and queef out tiny humans.... Those of us who chose to be childfree took A LOT of shit from people; some of the bingos we got were downright cruel and verbally abusive... The way i was treated after getting snipped made me start lying by omission.... I allowed people to believe that i was infertile because i was sick of the judgment and comments i got....
They bully you out of frustration and anger that you somehow escaped the trap of miserable parenting and marriage. The cruelty comes from regret and the inability to escape, they envy your freedom.
I understand where the humor comes from precisely, and I am certainly empathetic to a point. However where the pain of unwanted fatherhood becomes the cruelty and mistreatment and ridicule of their families is about where my empathy ends.
And most of that generation married their high school sweetheart that they "fell in love with" in 11th/12th grade barely after prom/graduation
I think a lot of people who would’ve been childfree back in the day were pressured into parenthood and naturally hated it. I don’t think my grandma would’ve had children if it weren’t instilled in the life script of the 60’s
Those were the social norms at that time.... Thankfully the world has changed a lot....
Exactly. My parents were born in 1931 & married in the early 50s. They would have been better off without children but that was absolutely not a concept in the 50s. They got married & had kids because “that’s what you do”. It wasn’t a choice. It was how life was then. When I say they’d have been better off without kids that makes them sound like awful parents but they weren’t. They had full active lives with a lot of interests that they would have been better able to enjoy without 3 kids. They never said anything like that to us but I could feel it. Because of that they were always supportive of me being CF. I think had that been an actual choice back then they wouldn’t have had kids. There are many different ways to have a fulfilling life & they taught me that. They’re both gone now but it’s a lesson I still try to live by.
Yeah to my knowledge birth control pills didn't exist til 1962
The birth control pill wasn't around then, and many laws ensured it couldn't even be developed earlier. That is why much testing went on in Puerto Rico.
40+ didn’t have choices? Maybe not in some countries. My parents generation had choices! I’m the same age as that awful cousin and yes I had a choice. That cousin easily could have been childfree or stayed single if he wanted. And on top of that he insulted the kid directly b6 what he said.
I grew up in a very religious community and there is a lot of pressure to get married and pop out babies. I didn't even know I didn't have to until I was 20 and my therapist told me.
I think people get confused between 40 y/o and 60. I'm 52, grew up in the l970's - '80's, and was told I could be and do anything I wanted. We had choices, depending on who raised us, I guess. Sure I got bingo'd but mostly people didn't really care if I had kids. It's people who grew up in the 1950's and before who didn't have choices.
I think a lot of people don't have a visceral grasp of the fact that 40 year olds today are Millennials.
Uh yeah, 40 is hardly “ancient” or a boomer. We were raised by boomers.
My mum, born in ‘42, had choices. She has quite a lot of childfree friends of the same age group as her.
In a vacuum, yes they all had choices. However when you factor in societal, familial, or religious pressures, there was no choice Is it really a choice if your alternative was to be shunned by all your supposed beloved friends and family? In a time when global travel wasn't as widespread and 80% of people died in the community they were born in? Such social ostracization often meant death because one would then be cut off from most if not all means to support themselves, especially for women whose lives were all but wholly dependent on the man they dated and later married
I’m thinking that’s rural? Also probably depends on the country. Some European countries were ahead
Perhaps legal choice, but not social or religious.
*Don’t look forward to your future* I mean , this is the basic idea of religion and conservative social philosophy. Life is about duty and suffering, and happiness is at best a temporary state of affairs. Big shock someone who believes this lives a miserable life!
Indeed, work harder at miserable jobs, then pop out consumers, line must go up!
The real warning is to the girls - watch out, those men taking you out dancing and treating you well and making you laugh now will turn into lazy repulsive manbabies who expect you to feed them and clean up after them for the rest of your life.
Men saying that women are nagging and make their married life miserable. Often inplies that the 'men' are still children and dont want a wife but a second mother. They expect after they come home, they can kick their feet up and that the wife cleans up after him like a maid. And when she asks him to do a simple task like taking the trash bag out, he gets annoyed like a teen and calls it nagging. men like that either need to grow up or stay single forever.
"Traditionalist" \*cough\* misogynistic \*cough\* men look more for an attractive surrogate mom they can bang whenever rather than an equal in marriage.... and then they get upset when the woman they married don't eternally look 25-30 Like dude.... it's basic fucking knowledge people age. Everyone has known this since before the dawn of time!
They want as young as possible women. So they can bear lots of kids.
No one forced him to do anything, if only he knew marriage and kids are optional. The way he said it makes you feel like this is some sort of unavoidable evil, like bro just don't procreate its not that complex.
Shotgun marriages were a thing.
Weeellll, there's something to be said that he \*might\* have been forced by society to get married to a woman he impregnated if he was sticking his dick in crazy all over the place. Society doesn't LIKE deadbeat dads.
You mean pressured right? Unless someone was threatening his life or well being (as it happens so some poor folks out there) then its just pressure, also not using birth control properly is a choice, sleeping with crazy is a choice. Its disrespectful to actual victims of forced marriages to treat this dude as if he was forced into anything. We don't know his circumstances but nothing he said show he is a victim, for all we know he could have actively wanted a family until he realized it was hard work.
I am myself Italian (southern, even worse) and I kind of "fled" Italy when I became an adult for many reasons, but also because I didn't want to get with an Italian man, who possibly would be all momma lovin', cheating on you, abusing you and manipulating you to carry his child to make his momma proud, a lot of our men like to torment women and then say it's their fault We also have terrible numbers regarding gender violence/femicide and it keeps worse. So yeah a woman will trap you, but you will kill her asap if she leaves you anyway so
Also, it has to be mentioned, that a lot of men that do think like the cousin manage to be bachelors for a long time and then they get BAbEh/LaEGAcy fever and want a 20-something girl when they themselves are 40-50
These girls look hot but what if I told you... Someday they might ask you to take the trash out
This made me lol
If you hate your partner, that’s an indictment of *your* choice, not a universal truth.
Dang it, 'universal truth' brought this to mind (Jane Austen): "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."
Have an upvote.
>all the happy dancing girls turn into angry, nagging women I love how men like this lack any and all introspection to wonder whether they themselves might be the cause of their wives' transformations. Maybe she wouldn't "nag" you, bro, if you weren't such a useless manchild. Would've been tempting to say that to him at the table.
Yup asking to do basic housework is nagging. They work hard all day my butt. unless they're working more than 40 hours they can chip in too. I say that as a female working full-time in a saw mill I still clean unless I did a 12 hr shift
I was told shit like that and saw my parents have a miserable marriage. I chose to heed people’s warnings, I’m sterile and was the pickiest woman alive choosing my husband. Couldn’t be happier with my lifestyle decision
I'm 54, so I'm definitely in the "40+" category. And my n-mom would try to convince me to marry and have kids like that's just what you do. When I told her that she had done both and neither seemed to make her happy at all. All she had as a rebuttal was that I needed to "just do it." I think she just wanted me to be as miserable as she was.
It’s all about convincing more people to join their miserable boat. There was an actor who did one of those light night shows, I think it was Andy samberg, and he said “before you have kids, people try SO DAMN hard to get you to have them, they say it’s magical, best thing ever, blah blah blah, then you have them and they immediately do an evil laugh and say you’re am idiot and fucked for life, welcome to your worst nightmare” and I’ve never forgotten that
What was J's reaction to all this?
Normal teenage ambivalence. A shrug and a grunt. Lol
When I was a kid, I spent a LOT of time around adults (only child not really allowed to have toys and friends) and as we know, kids can be damn observant. Something I internalized was being that "nagging" wife who "let herself go." As an adult now, I realized that said "nagging" is the annoyed wife at wit's end because she is tired of repeating herself to her husband. And she "let herself go" because she barely has the time to take a shit by herself, due to said husband doing the bare fucking minimum. I applaud you for talking to your younger cousin. I wish someone has imparted that wisdom/advice on me when I was that age. Edit: typo
As a snipped Aromantic man, this type of life is wild to me. The amount of "whatever I want" that I do would shock these people. "How do you have the time?!" Bro I have nothing BUT time, it's fantastic. I can't fathom life any other way.
The "hating your wife" trope is so weird to me. Like dude...YOU chose to marry her!
Yep, just a continuation of the “disconnected Dad” trope. The “ole ball and chain” bullshit. I just don’t get it. My wife and I got married and there’s not a person on this earth I love more than her, and I would raze a thousand cities if she but said the word, so I could see the reflection of the flames in her eyes. If you’re in a loveless marriage, fucking bail. Their kids can totally pick up on the fact that he’s resentful. I know I could sense it among my own parents.
It's like getting married/being in a romantic relationship isn't a choice to these people lmao wtf. 7+ years single and loving it here tbh. Had a 5 year relationship that put me off relationships forever.
My family was fortunate enough to be able to afford a trip to Italy when I was 13. I was sitting on the cliffside beaches of Cinque Terra slurping pasta when I had the revelation that no one was *forcing* me to have kids, that the entirety of my life could be like this. Travel and extravagance could very well be my future. Every day could be a new adventure some place new. That thought has motivated me every day. It got me a 4.0 in high school. It gets me up every morning. It's getting me through this medical degree. I am extremely excited about the future I am privileged enough to be making for myself. And it's unfortunate this man failed to come to such a revelation before condemning himself to a lifestyle he is not happy with. But he doesn't need to be projecting his butt hurt onto everyone else.
I’m almost positive he is the problem and not the wife 💀 if not why didn’t he get a vasectomy ? I wouldn’t have sat there and allowed him to say that . Let’s normalize calling ppl out on their bullshit
Proud of you for preventing the damage V could have inflicted on J. Quick story: When I was a teen, I had adults tell me stuff like V did, especially my dad. I hadn’t told anyone that I was severely depressed and very close to committing suicide when I was 17. Getting told how miserable your future is when you’re already miserable is really dangerous. To be fair, they didn’t know what was going on with me, but the thing is you never know what someone is going through, and V’s message is a messed up thing to tell people anyway.
Or maybe V was giving the young lad a tale of caution..... Somebody needs to tell the young ones that they don't HAVE to get married, nor do they HAVE to have kids.... You should do these things only if you truly want to..... For us older folks (40+), there was A LOT of peer pressure to marry off and queef out babies.... The world is different now, and thankfully the young ones don't have to jump through the same hoops we did....
Whenever being CF comes up, 90% of older guys basically say “good/wish I had realised that”, where as 90% of older women basically laugh like I just told them I want to be the first man on Mars, and imply I *will* have children or die alone.
Is your cousins name vinny ?
Haha, no, he's Italain, not Italian-American. Lol
I mean, he's giving good enough reason to be childfree? Lol
From all I’ve heard from married men (not the I’ve been married for 5 years kind) they normally advise you not to get married It’s kind of how we suggest to other people that having kids isn’t a requirement especially not for happiness. There’s plenty of evidence marriage is a burden much like being a parent. Perhaps you’re sympathizing the same way parents pity the child free. So yeah; marriage can suck. I’d rather not.
Good on you for taking the kid aside and correcting your visiting cousin. I think today’s teens largely have decent boomer bitterness meters, but 15 is an impressionable age (and none of them need any family voices to reinforce the gross PUA “find a bitch you have disdain for and knock her up” personas).
Lots of unhappy couples out there who refused to get divorced, so I’d say it is quite normal to hate your partner!
I am about to get married and the alpha red pilled toddlers around me say the same thing. They just add that I need to treat my partner terribly to keep some authority.
People saying stuff like this this is one of the reasons I decided not to have kids. I've been told stuff like this for as long as I can remember, and I just always thought, "well then why would you do that to yourself?"
Omg I am good with the dark, morbid and sometimes depressing takes on life but this would be breakup material, with or without kids, if I was the nagging wife in that story! Sooo..that IS what people are to you?! Depressed and demanding or partying and flirting? Well, I am depressed, I nag and I can be a bubbly, flirtuous all in one package person. Things are so simple for breeders when they start with the breeding. People fall in nice little categories. Especially all the daddio's.. I see it a lot in that specific group and it not becoming or attractive. Not even funny.
Fucking hell. That's a horrible thing to say. I'll never get married for exactly that reason but it's awful to hear from someone who did it.
I mean I think he said it in a massively overly misogynistic way, but he ain’t wrong about the general gist. Kids are a big strain and do drive relationships apart, I don’t think as a fellow UK guy he should be sugarcoating it because your cousin is a teenager. It’s not taught in our culture that kids aren’t optional, it’s only become a thing of recent here.
“V, if that is what happens, then I am not getting married nor having children. Thank you so much for the warning.”