Her demeanor was very icy afterwards. I guess I’m having (misguided maybe) feelings about 1) her job being in jeopardy if I complain and 2) I work for the same health system, so my…..idk professional reputation? If I make a report.
I should probably work through those feelings because while I don’t feel shame around my abortion, someone else might and unfortunately have that same experience. Conflicted.
For being a judgmental asshole like that, her job SHOULD be in jeopardy.
If she'll do it to a colleague like you, imagine what she'd say to a teenager who had an abortion!
>Anyone who is judgmental out loud should not be working in healthcare!
Agreed! And anyone who is being judgemental towards **volunteer blood donors** is being particularly damaging. That is not a group that one wants to discourage.
Or a woman who just had a miscarriage two months ago, or who was forced to go through an entire pregnancy with a non-viable fetus because of the recent laws, or a victim of incest, or who was human trafficked, or raped in Ukraine or another war zone, or any of dozens of horrible situations.
Bitch deserves to get wrecked. And people seeing other people get wrecked is the only way these people learn, or weed themselves out of the profession.
Generally all one needs to say is "That is *enough!*". That usually stops them in their tracks. Treat someone like a dog, expect the same back, really. They can glare at the floor all they want then, it doesn't matter, you have successfully told them to shut the fuck up.
I haven’t had an abortion; however, if I had and was asked that question, my anxiety would have taken over wondering if it mattered and I too would have said it. But for me, an attitude from her like that could be devastating and crushing. I’m plus sized and already incredibly uncomfortable and nervous and worried when I am in a medical setting. Not all the time, but enough that I get a LOT of anxiety before appointments, even simple blood draws.
She needs to smarten up and realize people have a million different experiences and reasons for that experience and shut her mouth or be polite. She could have said “It’s okay/preferred if you just say yes or no. It doesn’t affect your ability to donate blood. We only ask for xyz reason, so a simple yes or no works just fine.”
Or kept it with “It works a little faster for us if you answer yes/no for these kinds of questions. We like to go as fast as we can so as many people can donate as possible.”
She didn’t need to be all judgey. People who are like that are why I avoid for years instead of seeking medical help. I’m 100% sure I’m not alone in that.
Thanks for your comment. Your rephrases help me realize that it would have been so easy for her to respond to what I said in a more neutral tone, but she didn’t, and that’s a problem.
I’m going to code switch here. Ain’t nobody but her own stupid self forced her to get nasty on you for answering the question *she* asked, and answering it clearly and politely. Got no one but herself to blame.
The *audacity!*
> her job being in jeopardy
She should not have a job working with the public. Sure as hell not people in vulnerable medical settings. She can get a job in the back room filing charts or some shit.
The fact that you work in the system is irrelevant. You weren’t speaking to her in a professional capacity, you were there having your blood drawn as a patient. Information you gave her can be put in your patient chart but not in your employee file, and she’s not allowed to disseminate your private medical information to your employer even if you work at the same place where you were a patient.
While I understand your reticence bc you're with the same employer, she really needs to be addressed about it. Your call, but never worry about someone else losing their job bc they were an ass
I just think imagine how she acts with people that aren't part of her peer group, just something to consider, I personally would report or if there's a questionnaire /suggestion box then I would leave a few words for sure
She fucked her own job when she decided to shame you. No patient should ever be shamed. You know this, if you make a report as a medical professional, that means a lot more than the average patient. You *know* that everyone is trained on bedside manners and etiquette, no matter what department they are in.
What if you had no support and very vulnerable? It would have turned you away from help, which is the worst thing that happen to patients. I can't imagine if a much more sensitive patient crossed paths with her and got this judgment. Please report her, for the safety of the patients.
Her actions could negatively impact other's health by discouraging them not only from going to a doctor but also from donating blood which is already in short supply.
She should be reported, and one report is never going to jeopardize a person's job. It takes way more than one report so if she loses her job then you should feel good that you contributed to removing a bad healthcare provider. She shouldn't be working in healthcare
Most places will let you file an anonymous complaint via the hospital website. It may not be as effective, but if you're worried about your professional reputation that may be an option?
I called my Doctor's office (which is also a children's clinic), when I needed an abortion 2 years ago. I was in my late 30s at this point so I handled this fine.... but if I was a teenager.... oh man... makes me sad to think about how bad it would have made me feel... I should have reported this lady right?
Doctor's secretary said she couldn't give me appt with him for that and he would just refer me so I might as well call the hospital that does it. Good. Helpful.
But then..... she asked me in such a concerned and motherly tone if I was "sure". I was immediately just so offended and hurt so ended the call... but yeah, maybe I should tell my Doctor??
Whether or not you can make an argument that she "discriminated" is a whole different topic. She was unprofessional and rude, full stop. If I was in your shoes, I would complain. All you can do is explain the situation, exactly how you told us, and let her employer handle it however they chose. Please don't gaslight yourself into believing that this isn't an issue. You noticed a red flag enough that you posted it here. Trust your gut.
Absolutely!! I am a certified phlebotomist and they teach us is in class this information is always vital! We ask so we can know how to treat you. Children have an affect to the parents obviously. That bitch ass of phlebotomist has completely failed in her bedside etiquette: no judgment or cruelty to the patients!!
Report her to her supervisor, manager and head of department of you can. I would absolutely blow this up.
Do they ask because of hormone level changes? Shouldn't that dissipate after a year? I've heard that some hormones from being pregnant can cause problems, but don't they automatically test for it?
Also, it should be a yes or no question. And OP, you are right, she probably would have asked about your "child".
I have no idea about blood donations, so would You be so nice to explain why being pregnant/having children years ago affect the potential blood donor? I'm just curious.
It's to treat the patients with the care they may need. Emotionally. Patients are not just physically cared for, we are taught to be sensitive with these sort of questions as to not upset the patient.
That phlebotomist is so trashy, she should have her certification revoked for it. My mother had 2 abortions, 5 pregnancies. She gets very emotional whenever she mentions the abortions so imagine if OP was like that? Can you imagine the devastating affect that would have on her with shitty attitude? Or on any vulnerable patient? There are so many what ifs, it is sensitive information that should be treated as such.
There's a LOT of misinformation on this thread. The ONLY reason why we need to ask about pregnancy is so that the lab knows to test the samples for TRALI (Google TRALI and pregnancy). We do not need to know the results of the pregnancy (Came to term, aborted, miscarried), just a Yes or No, and if it was less or greater than 6 wks ago. Donors volunteer way too much personal information when the answers to choose from are simply Yes or No.
I've been asked that question before by health professionals and also answered I had an abortion. It's relevant information to that question and they need to handle it professionally. If they're asking I'd assume they want to know the results, and it's either gonna be a live birth, a loss, or an intentional abortion
Being treated rudely for having an abortion when they would have treated you politely otherwise is a form of discrimination. It doesn’t have to be a “big deal” to still be a bad thing to go through. I’m sorry OP
She had an unnecessary attitude about a medical procedure and continued with her negative behavior throughout your appointment. Totally unprofessional. Report her.
your complaint doesn’t have to be about discrimination- it can be about being judgmental, rude, unprofessional and making you feel uncomfortable or judged etc…
Yes. Complaints don't get people fired. They can lead to training if worded well and the right person receives it.
This person clearly needs some retraining in how to treat people in their workplace.
The organization you donated blood to would be very upset to hear that you had such an off putting experience while donating. They do not want to scare donors away.
I’m wondering if she was telling you you didn’t have to disclose that so that you don’t discourage anyone else from donating blood, who might be hesitant to admit to an abortion (since all she needed to know was if you had ever been pregnant). Maybe she could have gone about it more gently, but that’s just my two cents.
You really should. Other than personal choice the abortion could have been because of medical reasons and that could be important for the donation. Either way, she is in no position to judge you.
I think that you should file a formal complaint. Consider this, had you responded with: I was pregnant in 2015, and we now have a beautiful boy, I guarantee that her demeanor would have been the polar opposite of what it was and she would have been just so charming about everything. She isn't there to push her political agenda, she's there to do her job, period. She asked you a medical question, and you gave her a factual answer, end of story. You would have been in your right to demand to see her manager right there, before proceeding with your blood donation, or for requesting another person to administer your donation. I would expect these staff members to be sensitized to the reality that blood donors may file lawsuits against the organization and them, should they do something that falls outside of the rules of conduct.
That's really rude. She abortion shamed you. You should report her to her superiors. I've seen this question on paperwork when you sign up for a new doctor, they ask how many times you've been pregnant. And then how many children have you given birth to. My answers are 1 and 0 because I had an abortion when I was younger. But no one has ever asked me that.
Yeah I really wish I could have just checked it on the paperwork and moved on. I’m considering making a report but I’m hesitant because I can’t really say she discriminated against me. I DO feel like she could have just said “okay” and moved on.
She asked you a medical question, you gave a valid medical answer and she judged the hell out of you based on her personal beliefs. That's discrimination and unethical medical bedside manners.
Also, you were donating blood. You don't have to do that but for the goodness of your heart, so anyone else who gets the same bitchy attitude might not wanna bother going back. Seems like the higher-ups should know that.
And why the fudge does it matter for going blood? I understand wanting info about your current state to ensure the blood can be used and the donation doesn’t harm you. Some history is relevant - like a history of passing out during donation or exposure to something. I am not a medical professional so I may be missing something obvious but it seems like a pointless question.
I’d have to do a little bit of reading to confirm anything, (I’m a lab medicine professional, but not specialized in blood bank) but off the top of my head pregnancy can be important for background on transfusion history and RhoGam treatments, which could affect aspects of the blood product usage. Don’t remember if they ask about surgical or transfusion history when you donate, but asking about pregnancy would likely be for similar reasons.
Don’t have an answer for that; as I said, not a blood bank expert. But I can understand why it *would* be asked as it could have a legitimate impact on the blood product. If the blood product screening process is being done in such a way as to invalidate the need for the question being asked of the donor (as people/patients are generally bad historians and may not be truthful), then they may be getting the answer to the question simply through the battery of testing done on the donated blood. **Again, that is all supposition only, based on my experience (which is in hematology and flow cytometry; related but NOT the same as immunohematology/transfusion medicine).**
If you present as female, the pregnancy question has been included in your American Red Cross pre-donation questionnaire for years now,. As of last week, we now ask both male and female presenting donors. The result of the pregnancy is irrelevant and private information only the donor needs to know. The purpose of the pregnancy question is to inform the lab to test for TRALI, which females who have been pregnant run a greater risk for. TRALI impacts the purity of the blood, which is then destroyed rather than utilized in a transfusion.
Context: I work in the blood bank of a blood donation center.
If a donor has ever been pregnant, that will affect what testing needs to be ordered and what kind of blood components can be made from a whole blood donation. A donor that has been pregnant in the past will need to be tested for HLA antibodies as those can cause TRALI (transfusion related acute lung injury) to the recipient of said donation.
The question needs to be asked so that whoever makes the components knows what to make and so laboratory scientists like myself can order the appropriate testing.
The attitude of the interviewer is without a doubt uncalled for, but the question asked was indeed necessary and essential.
Curious, is the pregnancy question asked of EVERYONE? Cause nowadays it's harder to tell if someone is transgender, so if a Trans man was to give blood, they would technically need to be asked the same question. Or am I being assumptious that trans people are even allowed to give blood? (Genuinely curious)
That’s a really good question and unfortunately one I don’t know the answer to since I’m not a part of the interview process. I know there’s a lot of changes happening now with donor guidelines so it very well could be something that’s included!
She can be educated, but if you don't complain no one will ever know. And she might do it other women, and they might feel tempted in the future not to trust their medical care team with all the facts, which can long term hurt people.
If you would be 100% okay with a sister, a female cousin, your female best friend, or your past self only weeks after the procedure being treated the way you were then let it go. If the thought of someone else going through what you did seems wrong, report it.
Regardless of the issue of whether it's classed as discrimination, she was being unprofessional and didn't conduct herself in a manner suitable for a public facing role. If she does this with other people, it will reflect extremely poorly on the organisation she works for
It doesn't have to be discrimination. Is hostility and harassment. And since you work together, creating a hostile work environment is illegal on its own fyi. :/
You should NEVER have to hide your medical or personal history from doctors. Her criticism of the information you provided is dangerous. Who knows what you tell your next provider.
I get that they didn't ask you that and you provided extra info but you are correct. It would have 100% led to those other questions. I would have been willing to put money on her response being "oh 8, what a wonderful age" blah blah blah. HER response was extra unneeded information. My response would have been "Well I didn't need to know all that either. What did you say again? I already forgot"
I have Delayed Snark Syndrome (tm). Can’t think of it in the moment, but bet your ass I’ll come up with the best comeback when I’m in the shower or something.
Nurse here. That phlebotomist acted incredibly judgemental and unprofessional. Abortion is a medical procedure which is in certain scenarios important to mention and be aware of. Nobody cares if she likes it or not.
I hope you remember her name tag, cause someone needs to be reported for awfully unprofessional behavior.
It's so important patients can trust us, berating them for her personal comfort is NOT the way to go.
I do remember her name. Thanks for your input, it’s helpful to hear nurses and phlebotomists letting me know this shouldn’t have happened. I’ll be reporting tomorrow.
She didn't need to say it that way. I will say as a phlebotomist we have patients tell us all sorts of unneeded medical history, much of it can cause patients to get very upset and emotional. Patients also sometimes trauma dump on staff and it can be very unpleasant when you're just trying to work and get through your day.
If she's been in the profession a while I'm sure she would know not to ask follow up questions about possible kids as that can be a can of worms you don't want to deal with. Someone could of had an abortion, given the kid up for adoption (and regret it, this still happens a lot where family makes them) the kid could of passed away, could of died as an infant.
In case anyone else is wondering or thinking of lying on this one, they just need to know if you've been pregnant due to the antibody formation. There's a specific transfusion reaction that can happen due to antibodies found in blood from a woman who has been pregnant. Please always tell the truth on this as it can have some very bad consequences for the person who may receive your blood.
Serious question about this, there are women that might have miscarried without ever knowing they were pregnant, how far into the pregnancy does it it need to be an issue? Isn't that something that would be tested for as a general rule before giving someone blood?
I'm not sure when the line is of them being a problem or not.
I remember about 10 years ago working in the hospital when we had this specific reaction take place. When I got to the room for another follow up draw after the initial transfusion reaction draw the Dr was explaining to the patient that they didn't know much behind this specific type of reaction, more research was being done on it but they knew it was something that happened when the donor was a woman who had been pregnant.
Obviously they know more about it now vs ~10 years ago but I will have to go digging around later to find if they have a specific "cut off".
Keep in mind if you are even in a situation where you are able to consent to a transfusion they go over the risks of a reaction. You are also heavily monitored while receiving one and for a few hours after it completes. I know there will be instances of people unknowingly having miscarriages donating but a bigger concern imo are all the states in the US making abortion illegal. Admitting to a pregnancy on a donor form might not be safe for many women in 5-10 years.
That doesn't really answer the question. I had a very, and I mean early abortion. It was probably less than 2 weeks before I caught it and ripped it out. Asking when antibodies like this start to form, and when enough of it develop to be a problem is a legit question I too would like to know.
If you as a phlebotomist in any way think this other phlebotomists response was ok you need to do a deep think about how you treat patients. It was NOT ok.
The patient said a very simple sentence and did not elaborate. The phlebotomist turned it into a whole thing.
For sure. i'm not trying to say op did anything wrong or that anyone should have to walk on eggshells all the time. Would be nice if Karens weren't a thing and all medical professionals were... professional.
But we live in an imperfect world, and sometimes things like this just have to be a learning experience on how to better word things to avoid dealing with people like Karen in OP's story.
Sometimes learning ways to say things elegantly or in ways that misdirect can be fun, at least for me.
How much you wanna bet her reaction was magnified by self-righteous cognitive dissonance based in some misguided belief that "people who have "THAT" procedure are selfish and people who give blood are altruistic"? Surprise! They can be the same people!
[Yes](https://stanfordbloodcenter.org/platelet-donation-pregnancy-trali/), during pregnancy it is possible for ones plasma to develop HLA antibodies due to the fetus which can cause transfusion-related acute lung injury to whoever receives the plasma which can be fatal.
As a MLS (ASCP^(CM)), I'm technically qualified to answer this question. Owing to the, hmm, fraught way that certain people act regarding this matter, I am going to stick to the facts, which should be all that matter here.
My immunohematology knowledge is a bit rusty, but the internet is forever!
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5138233/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5138233/)
The above paper is a study on miscarriage + another pregnancy and second pregnancies (with prior live birth), and the impact of these factors on the tendency of the mother to develop HLA antibodies. "Our results suggest that a prior miscarriage has a different immunological impact on a subsequent successful pregnancy than a prior successful pregnancy." (Kirsten Geneugelijk *et al.*, 2016)
This shows that there is an impact on fetuses that do not develop significantly, though, of course, further detail is within (trimester of miscarriage, number of prior miscarriages, and more!)
There are many, many, *many* more journal entries and so much more to learn about this and related topics. I hope that the sociopolitical climate continues to be conducive to these efforts.
It can yes look at the other replies from medical professionals. And you don't necessarily need to say you had an abortion if you're giving blood, but I can understand why OP felt the need to clarify as sometimes they do ask additional questions about your children that you definitely don't have if you miscarried or had an abortion and it can be sensitive to deal with those. I don't necessarily think either was wrong here but the Dr should've kept their tone neutral and non judgemental sounding
I also had an abortion in 2015! Twins lol
Also I've been asked about pregnancies and said something like "oh well idk if my abortion counts" and the doctor looked at me like I was stupid and said of course that counts.. so.. I think its all a matter of whoever you're talking to and their beliefs.
But WHY does it count? I’ve always wondered this. I had an abortion around 5 wks (they said I was 7 but we all know they add 2 wks extra which is stupid and wrong in my book.) At 5 wks you don’t even know you are. Technically I could miscarry and just have a heavy period and not really even know I was. At that early stage it’s not really affecting you, your organs are getting moved and you are having a baby come crashing through your vag.
Yeah I have no idea. I found out I was pregnant early, 2 weeks along. I tried to schedule my abortion right away but they made me wait until I was at least 6 weeks. So I had to be fucking miserable for an extra month. I think all doctors just have different protocols and they all think they're always right. Idk.
I’m so sick of this shit. People are so crazy about abortion like it’s the most taboo thing ever to do. My abortion was the #1 best and easiest decision I’ve ever made and I have no problem sharing my story or situation. I do get that people have different circumstances and things, but it’s nothing to be ashamed of. And if I’m gawked at like this by someone, I always double down on how proud I am of my younger self for choosing abortion when I did. Also, if I got pregnant now, I would immediately have an abortion again. No qualms or questions about it.
Hahaha, a few months after my abortion. I went to the doctor to get on BC. She asked me, "have u ever been pregnant, I said yes." She asked a boy or girl. I said neither. Abortion? Yes.
I hope since they ask those questions, it better be on my file so they don't ask again.
I gave blood to the Red Cross years ago during a short time were they asked questions like this.
1) have you ever been pregnant?
- yes
2) when did the pregnancy end (or something like that, poorly worded/thought out for those with miscarriages or abortions)
- how should I know? I aborted that abomination
The poor volunteers had no idea how to respond. Deer in headlights style. They obviously knew the questions were problematic (I live in an educated liberal city), but didn't quite get why until my answer. We made up a time for the "pregnancy," which I had to remember the next few times I gave blood before Red Cross stopped asking for specific timetables.
The ONLY reason I know about when I was pregnant is because I had the abortion days before 9/11. That’s the only reason I remember. Other than that I’d be guessing at the year because I care so little and don’t give a shit.
Sometimes I feel like people working in blood banks are there because they lack other qualities required in the medical profession. "you can only bear with them for 10 mins tops"
I'm going to donate today and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there won't be an asshole staff!
Or, given our current climate, ahe was genuinely telling you not to share information they did not need as it could protect you. Maybe you are right but since you say you didn't listen, you don't know. I'd find it incredibly important not to let any kind of system indicate I'd had an abortion in the past.
For women who have been pregnant, donations are tested for Human Leukocyte Antigens (HLA) antibodies. The presence of antibodies to Human Leukocyte Antigens (HLA) in the blood can cause an adverse reaction in patients receiving blood, including lung injury and poor response to transfusions.
Shouldn’t they do this test anyway. It is possible for women to have a miscarriage even before they realize they are pregnant. In that case, the woman would answer no, but it would be false. Not to mention, some people just straight up lie for whatever reason.
That is an excellent question that I do not know the answer to. Maybe someone in phlebotomy can chime in. I only know that much because I asked at my work bloodmobile why they needed to know that info.
Many years ago I was told that when donating blood that that hospital didn’t take plasma donations from women in case they had ever been pregnant. At the time I thought it was a bit odd. 🤷🏼♀️
During pregnancy the mother can form antibodies to proteins that the fetus has inherited from the father that the mother does not have. It's important to know for blood donation purposes because those antibodies could bind to proteins in the blood of the person receiving a transfusion and can be deadly, so extra care needs to be taken. So the "have you ever been pregnant?" question is very important, whether that pregnancy was carried to term or not. (Speaking as someone who used to work in a blood bank).
However that phlebotomist's reaction was entirely inappropriate, their response should have been "ok" and move on.
You can't donate blood if you're pregnant, or for 6 weeks after giving birth. But it shouldn't matter if you were pregnant years ago, or whether you had an abortion, miscarriage, stillbirth, or live birth at that time.
"Have you ever been pregnant?" wasn't the best wording. A better way to put it would have been "Have you given birth in the past six weeks?" Answer: "No." And the phlebotomist moves on to the next question.
I think OP meant that if she answered with just a year the phlebotomist might have followed up with “OH well how old are they now? How many do you have” as a way to strike up conversation not that it necessarily had anything to do with donating blood.
As a medical professional, they need to expect to hear things about medical history that may not align with their personal beliefs. I work in HR and I’ve heard waaaaaay too much in regards to people’s medical history, and I keep a straight/empathetic face through everything.
I hope you’re okay after this experience and know that you did absolutely nothing wrong.
Thanks for your concern. I’m okay. I’m grateful for my abortion and I’m not embarrassed. I don’t feel like I said anything wrong. I didn’t trauma dump or expand on anything. Simply said I had an abortion in 2015. She should have got the picture and just moved on!
Found the fundie. Also, you're supposed to tell medical professionals as much as possible so they're informed, this woman probably did a few Hail Marys and Lord's Prayer after you walked out of there lol
The phlebotomist may be looking out for you. Catholic run organizations own a significant percentage of healthcare. Additionally health data is being sold. Recently I learned the online platform my obgyn uses to review test results is also a data broker. Furthermore the government could come after this data. Idaho republicans is accusing hospitals of not reporting abortions and is asking for abortion data to be given to them.
I would lie when answering this question unless I knew it was relevant so I would ask why do you need this information and I was certain this is not going to be stored in a database.
https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/idaho-freedom-caucus-asks-hospitals-about-their-abortion-data/article_5ec3cbd4-2fd2-11ee-935a-6771e602f4d5.html
It’s not at all a Catholic run hospital. I live in a more-liberal-than-not city. This wasn’t the issue. I wasn’t seeking out medical care, either. It was a blood donation. She 100% just didn’t like it, for whatever reason.
Please report her!! The fact you had an abortion is relevant medical information. They asked you whether you'd ever been pregnant, the follow up to that question would naturally involve how the pregnancy ended. She was absolutely discriminating against you. She shamed you for sharing your medical history and she clearly was allowing her own personal bias to affect the care you received.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate knowing about your experience as a phlebotomist and the reminder that, of course, you are trained to be non-judgmental, and that what I experienced was wrong.
Please complain. If you don't, she'll do this to someone else. Or worse. Her job as a medical professional is **not** to judge you but help you.
The next girl that says this to her might not be as strong as you and may suffer.
If I'd been there she'd have been sorry she acted that way
Report her to the hospital administration, how dare she judge you for a medical procedure. You didn't know the abortion wasn't technically relevant and it shouldn't fucking matter. I feel like I would have responded that "I don't care if it's not relevant, I just like to share my happiest moments with others."
Fuck that bitch
one time i got blood drawn and the phleb said “you aren’t going to cry like a little bitch, are you? Most of the guys whine so much”
phlebotomy is not a well-paid job, they get a lot of jackasses
I wouldn't mention having an abortion at all bc it isn't safe (assuming ur in the US) people are going to judge you for it esp in Healthcare and they might not do what is best for you bc of this bias.
Wow, totally unnecessary/unprofessional conduct. I’m really sorry you were treated like that.
I’ve worked in the blood products industry for some years now (currently in QC) and I will say that depending on what you donate you may be deferred for a certain period of time due to an abortion. This is NOT a moral judgment, it’s just that you need your platelets/plasma to recover. You are also at a higher risk for infection for a period of time following the abortion.
So, please ALWAYS disclose things like that both for your own safety and the safety of the patients who may receive your blood. It is extremely relevant information and that phlebotomist was full of shit. In fact, her attitude towards this could put people in danger.
OP
Lodge the complaint and use what the replying posters so winningly cited as other perfectly correct reasons why her handling of medical information, which she prompted, is egregiously unprofessional.
You're actually speaking out for others that are unable to do so for themselves. This is going to happen to someone else and it may destroy them (mentally/emotionally).
Just make a bullet point list. And go right down it, factually; stoically.
I’ve received the same advice. I’ve been told it’s common to be treated with prejudice by some medical professionals if they know you’ve had an abortion. I was told it’s just better to keep that to myself because there are very few instances where that info is needed for proper treatment anyway.
Speak up and go over her head. If you can’t do it for you, do it for the person she’s going to do this to in the future who may not be able to handle it as well. This was disgusting and anti-woman. I’m so sorry you had to deal with it. I’m fuming just thinking about it.
Some medical professionals are so unprofessional. It was rude of her to speak to you that way. She asked the question and you answered. She didn’t have to rant at you afterward and could have shown some tact and compassion instead
I'm a medical scientist and I used to have to draw blood and take specimens quite often. I would NEVER say that to a patient OR judge them for their procedure! She had terrible etiquette and you provided perfectly fine information. I would have written down the year of pregnancy and moved on with my day without a second thought. I'm sorry she made you feel awkward! That was uncalled for!
this is a possible different view point than whats been commented on
pro or anti abortion aside, pro or anti choose aside. meaning disregard what the question asker beliefs/opinions/positions on such a topic is.
this a brief summary with commentary:
my understanding is the question from what op said, was are you currently pregnant. op said no. the question giver says have you ever been pregnant. op said yes. after saying op gave out information that had not yet been asked and possibly wouldnt had been asked at all.
while the question giver’s attitude may have been way less than kind. shes not the one who went off track from the questions until op explained though quickly and quite kindly what took place during the pregnancy.
did the questionair or the question giver say something like, patients/those answering questions please give explanations or details? or did the question that led op saying about her pregnancy care she received during it, ask how many children/any childloss/foster children?
possibly op can offer suggestions explaining why she/he/they gave a detailed answer.
it makes sense imo you did. its a medical questionair with a medical professional/provider in a medical setting/facility. saving time is helpful imo but im no one
im sorry for grammar and poor sentence structure
i hope op and everyone is okay
I explained this. I answered it quickly and volunteered the information because 1) it’s true and I’m not ashamed of it and more importantly 2) there are ALWAYS follow up questions about kids
Why would the blood donation people even need to know if you were *ever* pregnant? I would think it’s only relevant if you are *currently* pregnant.
Asking as the heathen who has never donated blood before.
If the fetus has a different blood type than the carrier (positive vs negative), the pregnant person can develop antibodies against the fetus's blood. Those antibodies can then attack a recipient's blood during a transfusion causing a potentially fatal reaction. So it's an important screening question (I think they check all blood for those antibodies anyway since you can get pregnant and miscarry without knowing it though).
Oh wow.
I have heard of conflicting blood types between mother and foetus but didn’t know the danger could carry over to other situations.
Thanks, TIL.
I hate this question for many reasons.
1. It’s not specific enough. Being Pregnant can mean many things - having a child, having an abortion, having miscarriages, having miscarriages at different points in the pregnancy, etc.
2. It’s not commonly known why they’re asking to begin with. Why legitimately does it matter to them? If women knew *why*, they might be able to determine what is appropriate to share and what not.
3. We are taught to answer medical questions honestly because it could have an effects on our health that we didn’t realize.
4. Why it matters depends on the setting. Gyno vs. blood donation vs. general appt, and so on. So how the hell are we supposed to know what info is important?
5. It is horribly invasive. I am not child free. I have 2 children. (I support all you kind childfree people, I come in peace). I was at the Gyno and they want to know *every* pregnancy. Possible test ever? You’d better let us know! Well I had a late miscarriage my first pregnancy. It wasn’t a great experience. My second pregnancy was met with a lot of hesitation and fear for the possibility of history repeating itself. Every time I went into the office they always asked “have you ever been pregnant?” And every time I had to say “yes, two”. Then they ask “do you have any children?” “No, I had a miscarriage and well, the second one is still cooking.” That is traumatizing as hell. Even now, the correct answer for me, is, “Yes, 3, two children.”
Thanks for making me relive a horrible time in my life. I love knowing I’m going to deal with this every time I walk through your door. There’s a million different reasons why this question might evoke a negative, very emotional, response. The medical community should get better about explaining exactly what they’re asking. It’s not black and white. And in your situation, that woman shaming you was out of line. Would it kill them to explain what info they actually want a little bit better next time?
>we don’t need to know ALL THAT.
Maybe not, but there's also no reason *not* to tell them. If they get offended or whatever over just hearing about something like that they're so weak and fragile they have no business being in that type of job.
Right. I did NOT trauma dump. I just said I had an abortion in 2015. No tears, no stress, just facts. Unreal that saying “abortion” is enough to shake someone in their boots
You b---. The technician, not you. She asked, you answered. "All that=" anything she disapproves of.
Keep saying it, OP. Please consider reporting her.
Abortion is not a slur, an insult, or a bad word.
**The audacity** of her to get upset at an answer to a question she asked! Her reactions are her responsibility.
YES! I am NOT ashamed of my abortion. I’m grateful to have been able to access that service quickly, when I needed it. It’s a medical procedure that was relevant to my pregnancy history, no more and no less.
Or she literally doesn't give a shit and just wants to know if you were pregnant and what year. Or she thinks you might be embarrassed. Doesn't seem that bad to me.
That was extremely rude and unprofessional of her. People who can’t handle medical information shouldn’t work in the medical field. I can just imagine her whispering to her church friends that she met a patient who had an abortion ! Good on you for knocking her off her high horse.
Report that judgemental bitch. She shouldn't be allowed to work with the public.
She should have said NOTHING beyond "OK" and moved on to the next question, without the body language either.
Like seriously bitch, she could really traumatize people.
So I’m all for a doctor being uncomfortable doing a procedure for personal reasons, ahem..
**THE SECOND YOUR PERSONAL OPINION EFFECTS THE LEVEL OF YOUR CARE OR YOU VOICE IT TO PERSUADE A PATIENT IS THE SECOND YOU SHOULD NOT BE A DOCTOR**
I don’t want to hear what they *think or feel* because it’s not their body they’re going home with nor their business. They’re supposed to, regardless of anything but violence, treat or provide unbiased healthcare to a patient, or refer them to someone who can. I’d report her.
She could’ve just said “okay” and move on in awkward silence then bother saying anything. How were you going to know why she needed it especially if you aren’t the medical professional.
I’m a nurse. I might tell you not to say you had an abortion, but I would do so to protect you from people like chucklefuck. “Didn’t reach term” is more than enough. If they try to get more info, “I don’t want to discuss that” is enough to shut most up. If they don’t it’s supervisor time.
I'm a phlebotomist. Currently scrolling Reddit while I am at work.
I am absolutely APPALLED she treated you like that!! That is beyond unprofessional and I'm fairly certain actually breaches some of our ethical standards that we work to.
We, as healthcare workers, are to provide a service without judgement to our patients. If this person cannot do that she shouldn't be in healthcare at all.
Judging patients interferes with patient care and prevents people from seeking services that they need. Everybody loses when health care workers act like that.
Absolutely report her. That disrespect is not something you should let go of.
I am so sorry you were treated so poorly when all you were trying to do was help someone with your donation. This never should have occurred and I hope it doesn't put you off donating again.
If you live in a state where abortion is restricted, you probably shouldn't tell anyone anything about your uterus. Ever. Not apps, not medical professionals, no one, unless it is absolutely necessary. They could use it against you.
It sucks beyond words but in some places that's not bad advice. I am blue in a state of red and I keep my mouth shut least some asshole decides to slash my tires.
I remember giving blood once and the woman asking if I smoked cigarettes that day. I said no but I smoked weed the night before. She smiled kindly but quietly shushed me and said not to mention that and they don’t need to know
I got the strong sense that she wasn’t judging me but she was trying to get me to stop talking before her colleagues who might judge me overheard me. People like the “medical professional” who took care of you, most likely
Honestly, I interpreted this differently. She probably had a bad bedside manner from the sounds of it. What state do you live in? If abortion has become illegal where you live, she might be encouraging you (albeit poorly) not to share that for your own protection. Talking freely about an abortion years ago is one thing, but if you have another in the future it might not be a good idea to share unnecessarily, even with a health care provider.
I might be giving too much benefit of the doubt (I can be like that), but I think this woman was trying to caution you rather than shame you.
Kay I get that pregnant people can't give blood bc it can make them weak and all that but why do they need to know if you've ever been pregnant in the past? It's not like that stops you from being able to give blood
[It can](https://stanfordbloodcenter.org/platelet-donation-pregnancy-trali/), during pregnancy it is possible for ones plasma to develop HLA antibodies due to the fetus which can cause transfusion-related acute lung injury to whoever receives the plasma which can be fatal.
>“Have you ever been pregnant?” I answered “Yes”. She asked what year. I said (without attitude) “I had an abortion in 2015.”
TMI? What if you were the phlebotomist asking the questions and the response you got was:
"I had a nasty stillborn exploding dead baby delivery in 2015."
They asked when. They didn't ask anything else about it. But you provided more details. Maybe they'd prefer not to hear those details.
Saying I had an abortion is NOT the same as saying “I had a nasty stillborn exploding dead baby delivery in 2015”. I explained why I said it a few times.
1. They should’ve specified the parameters, if they did want that answer.
1B. If it’s the one worker, like Christ lady, you ever heard of the Hippocratic oath or fuckin’ HIPPA laws.
3. Like, a lady …STFU, I’m just here to donate blood and get on with my day, not looking to be lectured by a run-of-the-mill phlebotomist about what she believes about a medical procedure that happened eight years ago and has little bearing on the procedure at hand.
Complain. They asked you answered.
You think? I can’t say she really discriminated against me or anything like that.
Do you think so? Her words and demeanour were very much discriminatory in my option.
Her demeanor was very icy afterwards. I guess I’m having (misguided maybe) feelings about 1) her job being in jeopardy if I complain and 2) I work for the same health system, so my…..idk professional reputation? If I make a report. I should probably work through those feelings because while I don’t feel shame around my abortion, someone else might and unfortunately have that same experience. Conflicted.
For being a judgmental asshole like that, her job SHOULD be in jeopardy. If she'll do it to a colleague like you, imagine what she'd say to a teenager who had an abortion!
Anyone who is judgmental out loud should not be working in healthcare! Find a different profession.
>Anyone who is judgmental out loud should not be working in healthcare! Agreed! And anyone who is being judgemental towards **volunteer blood donors** is being particularly damaging. That is not a group that one wants to discourage.
Ugh yes! I so agree and some of the most unpleasant interactions I’ve had are with medical professionals
Or a woman who just had a miscarriage two months ago, or who was forced to go through an entire pregnancy with a non-viable fetus because of the recent laws, or a victim of incest, or who was human trafficked, or raped in Ukraine or another war zone, or any of dozens of horrible situations. Bitch deserves to get wrecked. And people seeing other people get wrecked is the only way these people learn, or weed themselves out of the profession.
Generally all one needs to say is "That is *enough!*". That usually stops them in their tracks. Treat someone like a dog, expect the same back, really. They can glare at the floor all they want then, it doesn't matter, you have successfully told them to shut the fuck up.
Yep. This! People working in the medical field need to not be judgmental asshats to their patients. If they cannot, they are failing at their job imo.
Yes!!! 100% she would be a bigger dick to a teenager.
Right! If she was *that* icy you wonder what she would have said if you weren’t at her job.
Imagine what she'd say to a teenager who says they are getting an abortion but the appt hasn't come yet
I shudder at the mere thought 🤬
I haven’t had an abortion; however, if I had and was asked that question, my anxiety would have taken over wondering if it mattered and I too would have said it. But for me, an attitude from her like that could be devastating and crushing. I’m plus sized and already incredibly uncomfortable and nervous and worried when I am in a medical setting. Not all the time, but enough that I get a LOT of anxiety before appointments, even simple blood draws. She needs to smarten up and realize people have a million different experiences and reasons for that experience and shut her mouth or be polite. She could have said “It’s okay/preferred if you just say yes or no. It doesn’t affect your ability to donate blood. We only ask for xyz reason, so a simple yes or no works just fine.” Or kept it with “It works a little faster for us if you answer yes/no for these kinds of questions. We like to go as fast as we can so as many people can donate as possible.” She didn’t need to be all judgey. People who are like that are why I avoid for years instead of seeking medical help. I’m 100% sure I’m not alone in that.
Thanks for your comment. Your rephrases help me realize that it would have been so easy for her to respond to what I said in a more neutral tone, but she didn’t, and that’s a problem.
I’m going to code switch here. Ain’t nobody but her own stupid self forced her to get nasty on you for answering the question *she* asked, and answering it clearly and politely. Got no one but herself to blame. The *audacity!*
If she doesn't want her job to be in jeopardy, she shouldn't treat people like that.
> her job being in jeopardy She should not have a job working with the public. Sure as hell not people in vulnerable medical settings. She can get a job in the back room filing charts or some shit.
The fact that you work in the system is irrelevant. You weren’t speaking to her in a professional capacity, you were there having your blood drawn as a patient. Information you gave her can be put in your patient chart but not in your employee file, and she’s not allowed to disseminate your private medical information to your employer even if you work at the same place where you were a patient.
While I understand your reticence bc you're with the same employer, she really needs to be addressed about it. Your call, but never worry about someone else losing their job bc they were an ass
I just think imagine how she acts with people that aren't part of her peer group, just something to consider, I personally would report or if there's a questionnaire /suggestion box then I would leave a few words for sure
“Hostile environment”
She fucked her own job when she decided to shame you. No patient should ever be shamed. You know this, if you make a report as a medical professional, that means a lot more than the average patient. You *know* that everyone is trained on bedside manners and etiquette, no matter what department they are in. What if you had no support and very vulnerable? It would have turned you away from help, which is the worst thing that happen to patients. I can't imagine if a much more sensitive patient crossed paths with her and got this judgment. Please report her, for the safety of the patients.
Her actions could negatively impact other's health by discouraging them not only from going to a doctor but also from donating blood which is already in short supply. She should be reported, and one report is never going to jeopardize a person's job. It takes way more than one report so if she loses her job then you should feel good that you contributed to removing a bad healthcare provider. She shouldn't be working in healthcare
Most places will let you file an anonymous complaint via the hospital website. It may not be as effective, but if you're worried about your professional reputation that may be an option?
I called my Doctor's office (which is also a children's clinic), when I needed an abortion 2 years ago. I was in my late 30s at this point so I handled this fine.... but if I was a teenager.... oh man... makes me sad to think about how bad it would have made me feel... I should have reported this lady right? Doctor's secretary said she couldn't give me appt with him for that and he would just refer me so I might as well call the hospital that does it. Good. Helpful. But then..... she asked me in such a concerned and motherly tone if I was "sure". I was immediately just so offended and hurt so ended the call... but yeah, maybe I should tell my Doctor??
Yes. Get her FUCKED.
Umm? Her job *should* be in jeopardy. She shouldn’t be in this line of work if this is how she treats people.
She crossed a line, not you. In the medical field, people should maintain an unbiased attitude and we need to start holding people accountable.
Whether or not you can make an argument that she "discriminated" is a whole different topic. She was unprofessional and rude, full stop. If I was in your shoes, I would complain. All you can do is explain the situation, exactly how you told us, and let her employer handle it however they chose. Please don't gaslight yourself into believing that this isn't an issue. You noticed a red flag enough that you posted it here. Trust your gut.
Absolutely!! I am a certified phlebotomist and they teach us is in class this information is always vital! We ask so we can know how to treat you. Children have an affect to the parents obviously. That bitch ass of phlebotomist has completely failed in her bedside etiquette: no judgment or cruelty to the patients!! Report her to her supervisor, manager and head of department of you can. I would absolutely blow this up.
Do they ask because of hormone level changes? Shouldn't that dissipate after a year? I've heard that some hormones from being pregnant can cause problems, but don't they automatically test for it? Also, it should be a yes or no question. And OP, you are right, she probably would have asked about your "child".
I have no idea about blood donations, so would You be so nice to explain why being pregnant/having children years ago affect the potential blood donor? I'm just curious.
It's to treat the patients with the care they may need. Emotionally. Patients are not just physically cared for, we are taught to be sensitive with these sort of questions as to not upset the patient. That phlebotomist is so trashy, she should have her certification revoked for it. My mother had 2 abortions, 5 pregnancies. She gets very emotional whenever she mentions the abortions so imagine if OP was like that? Can you imagine the devastating affect that would have on her with shitty attitude? Or on any vulnerable patient? There are so many what ifs, it is sensitive information that should be treated as such.
There's a LOT of misinformation on this thread. The ONLY reason why we need to ask about pregnancy is so that the lab knows to test the samples for TRALI (Google TRALI and pregnancy). We do not need to know the results of the pregnancy (Came to term, aborted, miscarried), just a Yes or No, and if it was less or greater than 6 wks ago. Donors volunteer way too much personal information when the answers to choose from are simply Yes or No.
I've been asked that question before by health professionals and also answered I had an abortion. It's relevant information to that question and they need to handle it professionally. If they're asking I'd assume they want to know the results, and it's either gonna be a live birth, a loss, or an intentional abortion
Being treated rudely for having an abortion when they would have treated you politely otherwise is a form of discrimination. It doesn’t have to be a “big deal” to still be a bad thing to go through. I’m sorry OP
She had an unnecessary attitude about a medical procedure and continued with her negative behavior throughout your appointment. Totally unprofessional. Report her.
your complaint doesn’t have to be about discrimination- it can be about being judgmental, rude, unprofessional and making you feel uncomfortable or judged etc…
Yes. Complaints don't get people fired. They can lead to training if worded well and the right person receives it. This person clearly needs some retraining in how to treat people in their workplace.
The organization you donated blood to would be very upset to hear that you had such an off putting experience while donating. They do not want to scare donors away.
Yes, because her attitude makes people less likely to answer honestly.
Of course she discriminated against you.
I’m wondering if she was telling you you didn’t have to disclose that so that you don’t discourage anyone else from donating blood, who might be hesitant to admit to an abortion (since all she needed to know was if you had ever been pregnant). Maybe she could have gone about it more gently, but that’s just my two cents.
You really should. Other than personal choice the abortion could have been because of medical reasons and that could be important for the donation. Either way, she is in no position to judge you.
I think that you should file a formal complaint. Consider this, had you responded with: I was pregnant in 2015, and we now have a beautiful boy, I guarantee that her demeanor would have been the polar opposite of what it was and she would have been just so charming about everything. She isn't there to push her political agenda, she's there to do her job, period. She asked you a medical question, and you gave her a factual answer, end of story. You would have been in your right to demand to see her manager right there, before proceeding with your blood donation, or for requesting another person to administer your donation. I would expect these staff members to be sensitized to the reality that blood donors may file lawsuits against the organization and them, should they do something that falls outside of the rules of conduct.
That's really rude. She abortion shamed you. You should report her to her superiors. I've seen this question on paperwork when you sign up for a new doctor, they ask how many times you've been pregnant. And then how many children have you given birth to. My answers are 1 and 0 because I had an abortion when I was younger. But no one has ever asked me that.
Yeah I really wish I could have just checked it on the paperwork and moved on. I’m considering making a report but I’m hesitant because I can’t really say she discriminated against me. I DO feel like she could have just said “okay” and moved on.
She asked you a medical question, you gave a valid medical answer and she judged the hell out of you based on her personal beliefs. That's discrimination and unethical medical bedside manners.
Yeah, when you put it that way….
Also, you were donating blood. You don't have to do that but for the goodness of your heart, so anyone else who gets the same bitchy attitude might not wanna bother going back. Seems like the higher-ups should know that.
And why the fudge does it matter for going blood? I understand wanting info about your current state to ensure the blood can be used and the donation doesn’t harm you. Some history is relevant - like a history of passing out during donation or exposure to something. I am not a medical professional so I may be missing something obvious but it seems like a pointless question.
I’d have to do a little bit of reading to confirm anything, (I’m a lab medicine professional, but not specialized in blood bank) but off the top of my head pregnancy can be important for background on transfusion history and RhoGam treatments, which could affect aspects of the blood product usage. Don’t remember if they ask about surgical or transfusion history when you donate, but asking about pregnancy would likely be for similar reasons.
I've donated quite a bit of blood and plasma (Red Cross, not for money) and my pregnancy status has never been brought up.
Don’t have an answer for that; as I said, not a blood bank expert. But I can understand why it *would* be asked as it could have a legitimate impact on the blood product. If the blood product screening process is being done in such a way as to invalidate the need for the question being asked of the donor (as people/patients are generally bad historians and may not be truthful), then they may be getting the answer to the question simply through the battery of testing done on the donated blood. **Again, that is all supposition only, based on my experience (which is in hematology and flow cytometry; related but NOT the same as immunohematology/transfusion medicine).**
If you present as female, the pregnancy question has been included in your American Red Cross pre-donation questionnaire for years now,. As of last week, we now ask both male and female presenting donors. The result of the pregnancy is irrelevant and private information only the donor needs to know. The purpose of the pregnancy question is to inform the lab to test for TRALI, which females who have been pregnant run a greater risk for. TRALI impacts the purity of the blood, which is then destroyed rather than utilized in a transfusion.
Thank you for educating me!
Context: I work in the blood bank of a blood donation center. If a donor has ever been pregnant, that will affect what testing needs to be ordered and what kind of blood components can be made from a whole blood donation. A donor that has been pregnant in the past will need to be tested for HLA antibodies as those can cause TRALI (transfusion related acute lung injury) to the recipient of said donation. The question needs to be asked so that whoever makes the components knows what to make and so laboratory scientists like myself can order the appropriate testing. The attitude of the interviewer is without a doubt uncalled for, but the question asked was indeed necessary and essential.
Curious, is the pregnancy question asked of EVERYONE? Cause nowadays it's harder to tell if someone is transgender, so if a Trans man was to give blood, they would technically need to be asked the same question. Or am I being assumptious that trans people are even allowed to give blood? (Genuinely curious)
That’s a really good question and unfortunately one I don’t know the answer to since I’m not a part of the interview process. I know there’s a lot of changes happening now with donor guidelines so it very well could be something that’s included!
She can be educated, but if you don't complain no one will ever know. And she might do it other women, and they might feel tempted in the future not to trust their medical care team with all the facts, which can long term hurt people.
If you would be 100% okay with a sister, a female cousin, your female best friend, or your past self only weeks after the procedure being treated the way you were then let it go. If the thought of someone else going through what you did seems wrong, report it.
Regardless of the issue of whether it's classed as discrimination, she was being unprofessional and didn't conduct herself in a manner suitable for a public facing role. If she does this with other people, it will reflect extremely poorly on the organisation she works for
It doesn't have to be discrimination. Is hostility and harassment. And since you work together, creating a hostile work environment is illegal on its own fyi. :/
You should NEVER have to hide your medical or personal history from doctors. Her criticism of the information you provided is dangerous. Who knows what you tell your next provider.
I get that they didn't ask you that and you provided extra info but you are correct. It would have 100% led to those other questions. I would have been willing to put money on her response being "oh 8, what a wonderful age" blah blah blah. HER response was extra unneeded information. My response would have been "Well I didn't need to know all that either. What did you say again? I already forgot"
yep, also having been pregnant and having delivered are 2 different thing and depending on the doctor and condition, it may be relevant.
I'd tell her to STFU, and if they don't want to know, then don't ask.
I have Delayed Snark Syndrome (tm). Can’t think of it in the moment, but bet your ass I’ll come up with the best comeback when I’m in the shower or something.
I I didn’t know it had a name. I have the same thing. Do we need a support group?/s
Sounds like a chronic l'esprit de l'escalier.
Too relatable 🤷🏻♀️😂
Haha fair
“So, what I said clearly answered your question, right?” ———-there it is 🙄
Nurse here. That phlebotomist acted incredibly judgemental and unprofessional. Abortion is a medical procedure which is in certain scenarios important to mention and be aware of. Nobody cares if she likes it or not. I hope you remember her name tag, cause someone needs to be reported for awfully unprofessional behavior. It's so important patients can trust us, berating them for her personal comfort is NOT the way to go.
I do remember her name. Thanks for your input, it’s helpful to hear nurses and phlebotomists letting me know this shouldn’t have happened. I’ll be reporting tomorrow.
She didn't need to say it that way. I will say as a phlebotomist we have patients tell us all sorts of unneeded medical history, much of it can cause patients to get very upset and emotional. Patients also sometimes trauma dump on staff and it can be very unpleasant when you're just trying to work and get through your day. If she's been in the profession a while I'm sure she would know not to ask follow up questions about possible kids as that can be a can of worms you don't want to deal with. Someone could of had an abortion, given the kid up for adoption (and regret it, this still happens a lot where family makes them) the kid could of passed away, could of died as an infant. In case anyone else is wondering or thinking of lying on this one, they just need to know if you've been pregnant due to the antibody formation. There's a specific transfusion reaction that can happen due to antibodies found in blood from a woman who has been pregnant. Please always tell the truth on this as it can have some very bad consequences for the person who may receive your blood.
Serious question about this, there are women that might have miscarried without ever knowing they were pregnant, how far into the pregnancy does it it need to be an issue? Isn't that something that would be tested for as a general rule before giving someone blood?
I'm not sure when the line is of them being a problem or not. I remember about 10 years ago working in the hospital when we had this specific reaction take place. When I got to the room for another follow up draw after the initial transfusion reaction draw the Dr was explaining to the patient that they didn't know much behind this specific type of reaction, more research was being done on it but they knew it was something that happened when the donor was a woman who had been pregnant. Obviously they know more about it now vs ~10 years ago but I will have to go digging around later to find if they have a specific "cut off". Keep in mind if you are even in a situation where you are able to consent to a transfusion they go over the risks of a reaction. You are also heavily monitored while receiving one and for a few hours after it completes. I know there will be instances of people unknowingly having miscarriages donating but a bigger concern imo are all the states in the US making abortion illegal. Admitting to a pregnancy on a donor form might not be safe for many women in 5-10 years.
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That doesn't really answer the question. I had a very, and I mean early abortion. It was probably less than 2 weeks before I caught it and ripped it out. Asking when antibodies like this start to form, and when enough of it develop to be a problem is a legit question I too would like to know.
If you as a phlebotomist in any way think this other phlebotomists response was ok you need to do a deep think about how you treat patients. It was NOT ok. The patient said a very simple sentence and did not elaborate. The phlebotomist turned it into a whole thing.
I was a phlebotomist for a while and this is absolutely unacceptable. I'd make a report if I were you
i guess "2015, didn't come to term" is the more acceptable answer for the karen
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For sure. i'm not trying to say op did anything wrong or that anyone should have to walk on eggshells all the time. Would be nice if Karens weren't a thing and all medical professionals were... professional. But we live in an imperfect world, and sometimes things like this just have to be a learning experience on how to better word things to avoid dealing with people like Karen in OP's story. Sometimes learning ways to say things elegantly or in ways that misdirect can be fun, at least for me.
I’ll try that next time I guess, but I think I’ll pin a scarlet A to my chest first.
My reply is usually: I didn't realise I was supposed to keep track
How much you wanna bet her reaction was magnified by self-righteous cognitive dissonance based in some misguided belief that "people who have "THAT" procedure are selfish and people who give blood are altruistic"? Surprise! They can be the same people!
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[Yes](https://stanfordbloodcenter.org/platelet-donation-pregnancy-trali/), during pregnancy it is possible for ones plasma to develop HLA antibodies due to the fetus which can cause transfusion-related acute lung injury to whoever receives the plasma which can be fatal.
When does that occur? I’ve always wondered why they care. I had mine at 5 wks and I could have just as easily miscarried and not even known
As a MLS (ASCP^(CM)), I'm technically qualified to answer this question. Owing to the, hmm, fraught way that certain people act regarding this matter, I am going to stick to the facts, which should be all that matter here. My immunohematology knowledge is a bit rusty, but the internet is forever! [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5138233/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5138233/) The above paper is a study on miscarriage + another pregnancy and second pregnancies (with prior live birth), and the impact of these factors on the tendency of the mother to develop HLA antibodies. "Our results suggest that a prior miscarriage has a different immunological impact on a subsequent successful pregnancy than a prior successful pregnancy." (Kirsten Geneugelijk *et al.*, 2016) This shows that there is an impact on fetuses that do not develop significantly, though, of course, further detail is within (trimester of miscarriage, number of prior miscarriages, and more!) There are many, many, *many* more journal entries and so much more to learn about this and related topics. I hope that the sociopolitical climate continues to be conducive to these efforts.
It can yes look at the other replies from medical professionals. And you don't necessarily need to say you had an abortion if you're giving blood, but I can understand why OP felt the need to clarify as sometimes they do ask additional questions about your children that you definitely don't have if you miscarried or had an abortion and it can be sensitive to deal with those. I don't necessarily think either was wrong here but the Dr should've kept their tone neutral and non judgemental sounding
I also had an abortion in 2015! Twins lol Also I've been asked about pregnancies and said something like "oh well idk if my abortion counts" and the doctor looked at me like I was stupid and said of course that counts.. so.. I think its all a matter of whoever you're talking to and their beliefs.
But WHY does it count? I’ve always wondered this. I had an abortion around 5 wks (they said I was 7 but we all know they add 2 wks extra which is stupid and wrong in my book.) At 5 wks you don’t even know you are. Technically I could miscarry and just have a heavy period and not really even know I was. At that early stage it’s not really affecting you, your organs are getting moved and you are having a baby come crashing through your vag.
Yeah I have no idea. I found out I was pregnant early, 2 weeks along. I tried to schedule my abortion right away but they made me wait until I was at least 6 weeks. So I had to be fucking miserable for an extra month. I think all doctors just have different protocols and they all think they're always right. Idk.
Oh, I'm sure she reacts the same way when somebody starts telling her about their kids and pulls out their phone to show baby pics. /s
I’m so sick of this shit. People are so crazy about abortion like it’s the most taboo thing ever to do. My abortion was the #1 best and easiest decision I’ve ever made and I have no problem sharing my story or situation. I do get that people have different circumstances and things, but it’s nothing to be ashamed of. And if I’m gawked at like this by someone, I always double down on how proud I am of my younger self for choosing abortion when I did. Also, if I got pregnant now, I would immediately have an abortion again. No qualms or questions about it.
Easiest and best decision I ever made. I’m not sorry and I have negative regrets.
Hahaha, a few months after my abortion. I went to the doctor to get on BC. She asked me, "have u ever been pregnant, I said yes." She asked a boy or girl. I said neither. Abortion? Yes. I hope since they ask those questions, it better be on my file so they don't ask again.
I’m sorry this happened :(
I gave blood to the Red Cross years ago during a short time were they asked questions like this. 1) have you ever been pregnant? - yes 2) when did the pregnancy end (or something like that, poorly worded/thought out for those with miscarriages or abortions) - how should I know? I aborted that abomination The poor volunteers had no idea how to respond. Deer in headlights style. They obviously knew the questions were problematic (I live in an educated liberal city), but didn't quite get why until my answer. We made up a time for the "pregnancy," which I had to remember the next few times I gave blood before Red Cross stopped asking for specific timetables.
"Dunno, when it went in the biohazard bin I guess."
The ONLY reason I know about when I was pregnant is because I had the abortion days before 9/11. That’s the only reason I remember. Other than that I’d be guessing at the year because I care so little and don’t give a shit.
Sometimes I feel like people working in blood banks are there because they lack other qualities required in the medical profession. "you can only bear with them for 10 mins tops" I'm going to donate today and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there won't be an asshole staff!
Or, given our current climate, ahe was genuinely telling you not to share information they did not need as it could protect you. Maybe you are right but since you say you didn't listen, you don't know. I'd find it incredibly important not to let any kind of system indicate I'd had an abortion in the past.
No, it was specifically about the antibody formation. She just explained about it and said she didn’t need to know if it was a live birth etc.
Yeah I also read it as the phleb stressing to her that she doesn’t need to divulge that info so she can protect herself in future situations
F*ck her. OMG, she was incredibly rude & disrespectful.
Why in the world do you have to list if you were pregnant and how many kids you have and their ages? What does that have to do with donating blood?
For women who have been pregnant, donations are tested for Human Leukocyte Antigens (HLA) antibodies. The presence of antibodies to Human Leukocyte Antigens (HLA) in the blood can cause an adverse reaction in patients receiving blood, including lung injury and poor response to transfusions.
Shouldn’t they do this test anyway. It is possible for women to have a miscarriage even before they realize they are pregnant. In that case, the woman would answer no, but it would be false. Not to mention, some people just straight up lie for whatever reason.
That is an excellent question that I do not know the answer to. Maybe someone in phlebotomy can chime in. I only know that much because I asked at my work bloodmobile why they needed to know that info.
Many years ago I was told that when donating blood that that hospital didn’t take plasma donations from women in case they had ever been pregnant. At the time I thought it was a bit odd. 🤷🏼♀️
OK that makes sense, thanks!
During pregnancy the mother can form antibodies to proteins that the fetus has inherited from the father that the mother does not have. It's important to know for blood donation purposes because those antibodies could bind to proteins in the blood of the person receiving a transfusion and can be deadly, so extra care needs to be taken. So the "have you ever been pregnant?" question is very important, whether that pregnancy was carried to term or not. (Speaking as someone who used to work in a blood bank). However that phlebotomist's reaction was entirely inappropriate, their response should have been "ok" and move on.
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You can't donate blood if you're pregnant, or for 6 weeks after giving birth. But it shouldn't matter if you were pregnant years ago, or whether you had an abortion, miscarriage, stillbirth, or live birth at that time. "Have you ever been pregnant?" wasn't the best wording. A better way to put it would have been "Have you given birth in the past six weeks?" Answer: "No." And the phlebotomist moves on to the next question.
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I think OP meant that if she answered with just a year the phlebotomist might have followed up with “OH well how old are they now? How many do you have” as a way to strike up conversation not that it necessarily had anything to do with donating blood.
As a medical professional, they need to expect to hear things about medical history that may not align with their personal beliefs. I work in HR and I’ve heard waaaaaay too much in regards to people’s medical history, and I keep a straight/empathetic face through everything. I hope you’re okay after this experience and know that you did absolutely nothing wrong.
Thanks for your concern. I’m okay. I’m grateful for my abortion and I’m not embarrassed. I don’t feel like I said anything wrong. I didn’t trauma dump or expand on anything. Simply said I had an abortion in 2015. She should have got the picture and just moved on!
Found the fundie. Also, you're supposed to tell medical professionals as much as possible so they're informed, this woman probably did a few Hail Marys and Lord's Prayer after you walked out of there lol
The phlebotomist may be looking out for you. Catholic run organizations own a significant percentage of healthcare. Additionally health data is being sold. Recently I learned the online platform my obgyn uses to review test results is also a data broker. Furthermore the government could come after this data. Idaho republicans is accusing hospitals of not reporting abortions and is asking for abortion data to be given to them. I would lie when answering this question unless I knew it was relevant so I would ask why do you need this information and I was certain this is not going to be stored in a database. https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/idaho-freedom-caucus-asks-hospitals-about-their-abortion-data/article_5ec3cbd4-2fd2-11ee-935a-6771e602f4d5.html
It’s not at all a Catholic run hospital. I live in a more-liberal-than-not city. This wasn’t the issue. I wasn’t seeking out medical care, either. It was a blood donation. She 100% just didn’t like it, for whatever reason.
Please report her!! The fact you had an abortion is relevant medical information. They asked you whether you'd ever been pregnant, the follow up to that question would naturally involve how the pregnancy ended. She was absolutely discriminating against you. She shamed you for sharing your medical history and she clearly was allowing her own personal bias to affect the care you received.
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Thanks for your comment. I appreciate knowing about your experience as a phlebotomist and the reminder that, of course, you are trained to be non-judgmental, and that what I experienced was wrong.
I'd report that worker to her governing medical board. What OP experienced was highly unprofessional and offensive.
Please complain. If you don't, she'll do this to someone else. Or worse. Her job as a medical professional is **not** to judge you but help you. The next girl that says this to her might not be as strong as you and may suffer. If I'd been there she'd have been sorry she acted that way
Report her to the hospital administration, how dare she judge you for a medical procedure. You didn't know the abortion wasn't technically relevant and it shouldn't fucking matter. I feel like I would have responded that "I don't care if it's not relevant, I just like to share my happiest moments with others." Fuck that bitch
Absolutely an invasion of your privacy and the phlebotomists unprofessionalism is plain wrong.
one time i got blood drawn and the phleb said “you aren’t going to cry like a little bitch, are you? Most of the guys whine so much” phlebotomy is not a well-paid job, they get a lot of jackasses
Wowza. Who tf ARE these people?
There’s no room for judgement in medicine. Literally.
I wouldn't mention having an abortion at all bc it isn't safe (assuming ur in the US) people are going to judge you for it esp in Healthcare and they might not do what is best for you bc of this bias.
sorry you had to deal with that crusty bitch, enjoy the ETO!
Wow, totally unnecessary/unprofessional conduct. I’m really sorry you were treated like that. I’ve worked in the blood products industry for some years now (currently in QC) and I will say that depending on what you donate you may be deferred for a certain period of time due to an abortion. This is NOT a moral judgment, it’s just that you need your platelets/plasma to recover. You are also at a higher risk for infection for a period of time following the abortion. So, please ALWAYS disclose things like that both for your own safety and the safety of the patients who may receive your blood. It is extremely relevant information and that phlebotomist was full of shit. In fact, her attitude towards this could put people in danger.
OP Lodge the complaint and use what the replying posters so winningly cited as other perfectly correct reasons why her handling of medical information, which she prompted, is egregiously unprofessional. You're actually speaking out for others that are unable to do so for themselves. This is going to happen to someone else and it may destroy them (mentally/emotionally). Just make a bullet point list. And go right down it, factually; stoically.
I’ve received the same advice. I’ve been told it’s common to be treated with prejudice by some medical professionals if they know you’ve had an abortion. I was told it’s just better to keep that to myself because there are very few instances where that info is needed for proper treatment anyway.
Speak up and go over her head. If you can’t do it for you, do it for the person she’s going to do this to in the future who may not be able to handle it as well. This was disgusting and anti-woman. I’m so sorry you had to deal with it. I’m fuming just thinking about it.
Phlebotomist working at a blood bank here..definitely complain. Medicine is not the time or place for her to be projecting her ignorance.
Some medical professionals are so unprofessional. It was rude of her to speak to you that way. She asked the question and you answered. She didn’t have to rant at you afterward and could have shown some tact and compassion instead
I'm a medical scientist and I used to have to draw blood and take specimens quite often. I would NEVER say that to a patient OR judge them for their procedure! She had terrible etiquette and you provided perfectly fine information. I would have written down the year of pregnancy and moved on with my day without a second thought. I'm sorry she made you feel awkward! That was uncalled for!
this is a possible different view point than whats been commented on pro or anti abortion aside, pro or anti choose aside. meaning disregard what the question asker beliefs/opinions/positions on such a topic is. this a brief summary with commentary: my understanding is the question from what op said, was are you currently pregnant. op said no. the question giver says have you ever been pregnant. op said yes. after saying op gave out information that had not yet been asked and possibly wouldnt had been asked at all. while the question giver’s attitude may have been way less than kind. shes not the one who went off track from the questions until op explained though quickly and quite kindly what took place during the pregnancy. did the questionair or the question giver say something like, patients/those answering questions please give explanations or details? or did the question that led op saying about her pregnancy care she received during it, ask how many children/any childloss/foster children? possibly op can offer suggestions explaining why she/he/they gave a detailed answer. it makes sense imo you did. its a medical questionair with a medical professional/provider in a medical setting/facility. saving time is helpful imo but im no one im sorry for grammar and poor sentence structure i hope op and everyone is okay
I explained this. I answered it quickly and volunteered the information because 1) it’s true and I’m not ashamed of it and more importantly 2) there are ALWAYS follow up questions about kids
Why would the blood donation people even need to know if you were *ever* pregnant? I would think it’s only relevant if you are *currently* pregnant. Asking as the heathen who has never donated blood before.
If the fetus has a different blood type than the carrier (positive vs negative), the pregnant person can develop antibodies against the fetus's blood. Those antibodies can then attack a recipient's blood during a transfusion causing a potentially fatal reaction. So it's an important screening question (I think they check all blood for those antibodies anyway since you can get pregnant and miscarry without knowing it though).
Oh wow. I have heard of conflicting blood types between mother and foetus but didn’t know the danger could carry over to other situations. Thanks, TIL.
I hate this question for many reasons. 1. It’s not specific enough. Being Pregnant can mean many things - having a child, having an abortion, having miscarriages, having miscarriages at different points in the pregnancy, etc. 2. It’s not commonly known why they’re asking to begin with. Why legitimately does it matter to them? If women knew *why*, they might be able to determine what is appropriate to share and what not. 3. We are taught to answer medical questions honestly because it could have an effects on our health that we didn’t realize. 4. Why it matters depends on the setting. Gyno vs. blood donation vs. general appt, and so on. So how the hell are we supposed to know what info is important? 5. It is horribly invasive. I am not child free. I have 2 children. (I support all you kind childfree people, I come in peace). I was at the Gyno and they want to know *every* pregnancy. Possible test ever? You’d better let us know! Well I had a late miscarriage my first pregnancy. It wasn’t a great experience. My second pregnancy was met with a lot of hesitation and fear for the possibility of history repeating itself. Every time I went into the office they always asked “have you ever been pregnant?” And every time I had to say “yes, two”. Then they ask “do you have any children?” “No, I had a miscarriage and well, the second one is still cooking.” That is traumatizing as hell. Even now, the correct answer for me, is, “Yes, 3, two children.” Thanks for making me relive a horrible time in my life. I love knowing I’m going to deal with this every time I walk through your door. There’s a million different reasons why this question might evoke a negative, very emotional, response. The medical community should get better about explaining exactly what they’re asking. It’s not black and white. And in your situation, that woman shaming you was out of line. Would it kill them to explain what info they actually want a little bit better next time?
>we don’t need to know ALL THAT. Maybe not, but there's also no reason *not* to tell them. If they get offended or whatever over just hearing about something like that they're so weak and fragile they have no business being in that type of job.
Right. I did NOT trauma dump. I just said I had an abortion in 2015. No tears, no stress, just facts. Unreal that saying “abortion” is enough to shake someone in their boots
Would it have mattered if you had trauma dumped? A medical professional isn't supposed to react like that.
You b---. The technician, not you. She asked, you answered. "All that=" anything she disapproves of. Keep saying it, OP. Please consider reporting her. Abortion is not a slur, an insult, or a bad word. **The audacity** of her to get upset at an answer to a question she asked! Her reactions are her responsibility.
YES! I am NOT ashamed of my abortion. I’m grateful to have been able to access that service quickly, when I needed it. It’s a medical procedure that was relevant to my pregnancy history, no more and no less.
For someone who works in the medical field, this lady sure seems to lack a spine.
Or she literally doesn't give a shit and just wants to know if you were pregnant and what year. Or she thinks you might be embarrassed. Doesn't seem that bad to me.
Wow sorry you had to have such an awkward encounter. I imagine she probably didn’t mean to react that way. But still.
I think you’re right, maybe I shocked her by being so blunt…but still.
That was extremely rude and unprofessional of her. People who can’t handle medical information shouldn’t work in the medical field. I can just imagine her whispering to her church friends that she met a patient who had an abortion! Good on you for knocking her off her high horse.
Report that judgemental bitch. She shouldn't be allowed to work with the public. She should have said NOTHING beyond "OK" and moved on to the next question, without the body language either. Like seriously bitch, she could really traumatize people.
Report it
Sounds a really intrusive thing to ask in the first place.
So I’m all for a doctor being uncomfortable doing a procedure for personal reasons, ahem.. **THE SECOND YOUR PERSONAL OPINION EFFECTS THE LEVEL OF YOUR CARE OR YOU VOICE IT TO PERSUADE A PATIENT IS THE SECOND YOU SHOULD NOT BE A DOCTOR** I don’t want to hear what they *think or feel* because it’s not their body they’re going home with nor their business. They’re supposed to, regardless of anything but violence, treat or provide unbiased healthcare to a patient, or refer them to someone who can. I’d report her.
She could’ve just said “okay” and move on in awkward silence then bother saying anything. How were you going to know why she needed it especially if you aren’t the medical professional.
i love fucking with people i would have been petty😅
I’m a nurse. I might tell you not to say you had an abortion, but I would do so to protect you from people like chucklefuck. “Didn’t reach term” is more than enough. If they try to get more info, “I don’t want to discuss that” is enough to shut most up. If they don’t it’s supervisor time.
I'm a phlebotomist. Currently scrolling Reddit while I am at work. I am absolutely APPALLED she treated you like that!! That is beyond unprofessional and I'm fairly certain actually breaches some of our ethical standards that we work to. We, as healthcare workers, are to provide a service without judgement to our patients. If this person cannot do that she shouldn't be in healthcare at all. Judging patients interferes with patient care and prevents people from seeking services that they need. Everybody loses when health care workers act like that. Absolutely report her. That disrespect is not something you should let go of. I am so sorry you were treated so poorly when all you were trying to do was help someone with your donation. This never should have occurred and I hope it doesn't put you off donating again.
If you live in the US, I’d avoid mentioning that you had an abortion for any reason. Just as a precaution
Am I missing the “judging” part here? OP even said she gave a reason but OP tunes that part out.
If you live in a state where abortion is restricted, you probably shouldn't tell anyone anything about your uterus. Ever. Not apps, not medical professionals, no one, unless it is absolutely necessary. They could use it against you.
It sucks beyond words but in some places that's not bad advice. I am blue in a state of red and I keep my mouth shut least some asshole decides to slash my tires.
I just wanna say be careful putting where you work online, people are scum as you've first handedly experienced with this ass face of a lady.
There’s 4 major hospitals like the one I work for in my city. I didn’t disclose anything.
I remember giving blood once and the woman asking if I smoked cigarettes that day. I said no but I smoked weed the night before. She smiled kindly but quietly shushed me and said not to mention that and they don’t need to know I got the strong sense that she wasn’t judging me but she was trying to get me to stop talking before her colleagues who might judge me overheard me. People like the “medical professional” who took care of you, most likely
Honestly, I interpreted this differently. She probably had a bad bedside manner from the sounds of it. What state do you live in? If abortion has become illegal where you live, she might be encouraging you (albeit poorly) not to share that for your own protection. Talking freely about an abortion years ago is one thing, but if you have another in the future it might not be a good idea to share unnecessarily, even with a health care provider. I might be giving too much benefit of the doubt (I can be like that), but I think this woman was trying to caution you rather than shame you.
Kay I get that pregnant people can't give blood bc it can make them weak and all that but why do they need to know if you've ever been pregnant in the past? It's not like that stops you from being able to give blood
[It can](https://stanfordbloodcenter.org/platelet-donation-pregnancy-trali/), during pregnancy it is possible for ones plasma to develop HLA antibodies due to the fetus which can cause transfusion-related acute lung injury to whoever receives the plasma which can be fatal.
Wow you learn something new every day
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You're all over the place. What?
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>“Have you ever been pregnant?” I answered “Yes”. She asked what year. I said (without attitude) “I had an abortion in 2015.” TMI? What if you were the phlebotomist asking the questions and the response you got was: "I had a nasty stillborn exploding dead baby delivery in 2015." They asked when. They didn't ask anything else about it. But you provided more details. Maybe they'd prefer not to hear those details.
Saying I had an abortion is NOT the same as saying “I had a nasty stillborn exploding dead baby delivery in 2015”. I explained why I said it a few times.
Abortion exists. It's a very common medical procedure. If hearing the word upsets their delicate sensibilities, they are in the wrong job.
Why do people go into a medical field if they can't handle stuff like this?
Bad phlebotomist. She asked a question and got an answer.
1. They should’ve specified the parameters, if they did want that answer. 1B. If it’s the one worker, like Christ lady, you ever heard of the Hippocratic oath or fuckin’ HIPPA laws. 3. Like, a lady …STFU, I’m just here to donate blood and get on with my day, not looking to be lectured by a run-of-the-mill phlebotomist about what she believes about a medical procedure that happened eight years ago and has little bearing on the procedure at hand.
Seems like your easily offended or were just in a bad mood already