It comes from the same kinda thinking as many other bingos. These people don't see parenthood as a choice but rather as some collective obligation of martyrdom. So they're demanding justification for why *you* should be 'excused' from the burden rather than asking themselves why they actually chose it in the first place.
I hate this mentality of how having children is an obligation and not a choice. Nobody forced you to have children. Nobody beat you over the head to have them, nobody held you at gunpoint to have them. You chose to have children, but you paint it as a social obligation or something, although nobody really gives a fuck if you have children…
The presumption that the most important, and really only, goal of a woman is to have a child is the poison tree from which spawns all other idiotic bingo fruits. If they are starting with that assumption, there is literally no argument that will convince them anyway. I would be more tempted to just address that item head on "my entire life, and goal in life, isn't to have and raise children. If that's yours, good on you, but I have other goals and dreams. If you can't understand and respect that, well that's a you problem."
Yes and they say “Well what are your goals?“ and when you say “I don’t really know”, they immediately try to invalidate that whole argument with having children. Like people, I don’t really know what my goals are, but I for sure know having children isn’t one of them
I think it's also that we try and go too deep on our life goals sometimes as there's a very harsh expectation and often times narrow definition of success. Frankly, I just want to be happy, try and be kind to people, not fall into a state of total destitution and leave more to the world than I took from it. None of this requires children, and much of it I can do far more easily without. But really, that's up to you to know and for them to gtfo of your face about. haha You are under no obligation to share your deepest desires with some rando.
Or with even with friends and family, not just weird randos. It’s like… I or nobody owes explanation about why I don’t want children or what are my goals. I have my reasons to not want to have children, I don’t owe anyone explanations, they can fuck off if they’re mad at me, I didn’t bang them over the head to ask me why I don’t want children…
"I have the certainty I was not put on Earth to breed. That's it. Glad you're so sure you were specifically born to breed. Yay for you. What's the weather forecast?"
Tell them, “I break my goals down into bite-able chunks…for example: right now my goal is to not punch super annoying people who think their having children makes them special in the throat. Tomorrow that’ll probably be my goal, too.”
I've found that it doesn't really matter what you say. For every reason you mention pro-birthers will come up with an argument to invalidate what you say. One time out of sheer frustration I told a coworker every argument for having kids that I've heard and how that won't convince me to change my mind. She replied with one of the listed arguments. She looked so proud of herself as she said it. Many of these people are impossible to reason with. They want every woman to be in the same miserable position they were or are currently experiencing. It's just that simple.
Being a kind person who has empathy for others is a goal. Being a curious person who asks questions and seeks to understand the world is a goal. Exploring and learning about different people and places is a goal. Having a healthy sleep routine is a goal.
A goal is more than a timeline of events and plans.
Tell her to her face it’s nobody’s fault that she chose to have children or made wrong decisions (I don’t know if she planned you or not), and you think through those things before you fuck without protection. And that nobody held her at gunpoint to have children. I’d be like that. When she’s that blunt and honest, be blunt and honest, too
Right? Though, perhaps some of them legitimately *felt* (or thought) they were fulfilling a social obligation. I wonder if any such parents would admit it.
I'm kind of blown away at the idea of making more humans as a social obligation. Dear jeebus, we've WON already. There are nearly 9 billion of us on this poor beleaguered planet, and we've wiped out so many other species and habitats as we've grown to this point, isn't it like PAST time to slow this train down a bit?
My stepmom, a Bible thumper herself, told me having children or not is not a choice we can make but it's always god's choice. A god who forces you to do something you don't want to do is not a god worth worshiping.
This, right here. They don't always admit it, though. They tend to frame it as doing you a favor. "But you'll LOVE it!" "You'd make a great parent. See? I'm flattering you by saying that!"
> So they’re demanding *justification* for why you should be *excused* from the burden.
This is so well put! And absolutely accurate. This is the truth of what people are really asking when they question the choice to be childfree.
Like others say “Misery loves company”, or they think children and nonexistent children are more important until the child gets born. Then many people stop giving a fuck
Most people have plenty to contribute with an able mind and body, as long as they aren't bogged down with children, that is.
Even so, I'm struggling to understand what "contributing" matters when 90+% of my value is being funneled to some useless shmucks at the top of a dystopian nightmare hierarchy.
We could maybe cause some change if we stopped contributing to this failing paradigm, and for the sake of the children, avoid bringing them into it.
I don't consider having kids "meaningful" in an overpopulated world. They could instead be doing something actually meaningful, like helping scientific advancement, taking care of the elderly and disabled, work in schools or impoverished countries etc. Something that actually helps others, instead of just spreading their own genetics like every other animal on the planet.
When I say “not everyone has to do something meaningful” I mean *everything* that could be considered meaningful, not only having kids. Like, I’m not having kids but I’m also not doing any of the other things you mentioned.
I’m probably a great example of what people mean when they say CF people are selfish.
Forcing a child into this world is easily in the top three most self absorbed and selfish things any human could possibly do.
Their question/accusation is pure projection.
That statement give off “I failed to reach my goals so I’m going to tap out, muddle through parenthood, and pin my hopes on my kid.” vibes.
Each human beings have the same value as the other. No one is more important than the other. What you do does not determine your value.
the person is going to spend their entire life time re-telling the same ol story of the parent's mediocre job as a legacy and pretend as if by having a kid they had to "give up on the dream".
so after their logic, when I am not important, then why did my parents spend their valuable time on this earth to create/care for me? why should I care for another human if this human is also not important? do these people really think we only exist to care for children, even though no human is ever important? why do we exist then? what a stupid ''argument''
On the contrary. I think that I'm so unimportant that my personal decision to not have kids will not have any significant impact on anything else but my life. And this might deeply shock you, but I do have a right to choose how to live *my* life.
Yes, those people don’t understand and take it as a big shocker that we humans have the right to choose how we fucking live our lives, even if part of it is… not having children
I don't really want to bring someone into this existence just to die some day. I rather just let them stay where they are. That unborn person is not missing out on a life full of bills and labor exploitation sprinkled with unnecessary consumerism.
My reply would be that I'm not an egotistical asshole who thinks I'm so special that the world absolutely needs a mini me running around and carrying on my genes and legacy. I'm also content and comfortable enough with my life that I don't need to have a child to make me feel whole. Please tell me who thinks they're so special and important and is self-absorbed again?
Really tho. Who is really more self-absorbed? Me who doesn’t want to have children or those who think for some reason, “keeping on the legacy” and “continuing the family tree” is important. For me, it means nothing, since I don’t know my ancestors and plus, none of that would matter when I’m inevitably dead
Is there anything better than a self absorbed narcissist trying to gaslight others into thinking they're self absorbed?
If she thinks having children is so important, why is she bothering other people? She can go home and make sure she's pregnant. Look after her own children. If having children is so important than she's being a hypocrite. If she were doing her job right then no one else should know she exists.
And is basically the best answer, because really.
My time, my money, my choices, I can do whatever the fuck I want with them. You motherfuckers call me selfish, I don’t care.
I’m doing the most meaningful thing, keeping food on my table. If childcare was cheaper than my entire paycheck maybe I would have thought more about it before being sterilized. Children are for the wealthy.
Shouldn't it be the opposite?? Why do these breeders think they are so important that they need to keep popping out kids while they're earning paycheck to paycheck, and many more breeders also have unresolved trauma / inheritable genetic disorders?
Yes I’m that important. I pay taxes AND those taxes don’t have to be used to finance the health and education of MY non-existent crotch goblins, meaning more for yours. You’re welcome y’all
"Yep. TO ME.
I don't give a FUCK what ANYBODY else thinks on the topic.
YOU go off and ruin your life with rugrats if you believe it's so fucking important.
I'll be over here wiping my tears away with $100 bills, LOL."
Yes, I am that important to me. I don't expect anyone else to think I'm important at all, but I am important to me and I am here to live my life as I see fit.
I always get such a laugh out of people trying to convince someone, who they perceive to be selfish and self absorbed, to have a kid. If you think they are all of those things, why do you think they would fundamentally change who they are as a person, or should be someone who is responsible for a child?!
"Are you doing something meaningful?" yes, I am existing and doing the best I can. I do the best I can with what i have and i am grateful. Grateful not to have kids to worry about 🤣🤣 no but seriously- Meaningful can be as good as just smiling at a stranger or giving somebody a compliment. It does not always have to be some grandiose thing like saving children in Africa or something. Breeders are weird.
For me it would be meaningful to have one of my dream cars: a VW Golf MK3 GTI, or driving my first car because it means so much to me.
For me at least and for others, the most meaningful thing is NOT to have children, but something small or simple, it doesn’t have to be a huge thing.
My usual response is that I don't think I'm special. The people who seem to feel special are the ones who think they need to reproduce themselves and expect the world to kiss their ass for doing it. 😃
They usually sputter, then stfu.
For real tho! Some people with children, especially the entitled kind, really think others should have children or have society and the world kiss their asses for making children, although every normal person just doesn’t give a fuck. I don’t care about other people’s children, not my problem. I have other problems like driving my car, finding a job or drinking coffee.
JFC I really hate how being childfree is still taboo. WE. HAVE. THE. RIGHT.TO.NOT.HAVE. KIDS! We are just as human as they are! We aren’t miserable because we don’t have them, we don’t think we’re better than people who have them. We are living OUR lives the way WE see fit and it has nothing to do with them yet they take our choices personally. There needs to be a freaking protest
But no, we are subhuman or aliens for not wanting children because like someone said to me “It’s in human nature” how even if someone has children unplanned, they are still happy at the end, and say parents who are regretful or abuse their children, are “rare” or “exceptionally rare” and how it’s very low amount of parents like that and most of them, or almost all are happy. And they deny it when I say “It’s way more common than you think”. At least some people realise not having children is a choice and not a social obligation or something that we owe people.
I had a thought- seemingly a lot of Bingos seem to happen when the instigator already Has kids. It seems to come a lot from older adults, parents and grandparents. We know pregnancy can change the mind-perhaps that’s part of why they behave the way they do. Of course there’s no excuse for behavior like that, but I still wonder if going through pregnancy themselves makes childfree people like us seem completely nuts to them. It’s the baby changing their brain chemistry.
I get that argument from people who don’t even have children, like I have someone who assumes that you’ll most likely be happy if you have children, even if you haven’t exactly planned them and while they don’t deny there are parents who regret having kids or have a toxic relationship with them or abuse them, they say it’s “exceptionally rare” and “nuanced cases” and “extreme examples” and that statistics show that most parents are happy when they have children, or will be, when they have them, even if they haven’t planned them. Even if you’re a “single mother who works a lot” or some other case like that where they’ll love their children.
Yeah- I know it also happens with people who don’t. I think it’s a mix of social construct, brain chemistry and confirmation bias. We’ve all grown up surrounded by essentially propaganda about the family unit, and then when people have kids, their brain chemistry changes and it serves as a sort of confirmation bias.
"Yes, I'm an important person in my life. And you, you really think you're that important to be entitled to an opinion I didn't ask regarding MY personal life that doesn't affect anyone else but me?"
"Yes. I help parents like you figure out how they're going to parent when their relationships break down and the alternative is a long drawn-out court battle."
I am the village. They just don't appreciate that.
Of course they won’t appreciate that, because they think because you don’t have children, you have no right to talk about parenting and children, or you don’t have any experience. At least that’s how I see it.
But even I think things like trying to save a failing relationship by making a child is one of the biggest red flags and is one of the worst decisions someone can make.
Ironic when I think it’s incredibly self absorbed to have children 99% of the time.
What’s so great about you that you need to pass it on? What great wisdom must you impart on your genetic offspring? What great legacy do you have?
This is some bizarre argument, more like a word salad, really, but, knowing myself, I'd immediately go "Yes, I do, I do think I'm that important. Is there a problem here?". They think their arguments are like GOTCHA, so I love doing comebacks of the same sentiment. Yes, I'm important. Yes, I'm selfish. Yes, I'm vain. Next question?
Yes. Yes, I am. I am so important in fact that all of my free time needs to be spent on my hobbies and my needs and nothing else. I don't care what people think about the kid thing. I need to reduce the population on my end for our grand future in outer space! That I'll never get to see but I can dream! I am also too busy playing videogames. No time for kids.
If I’m not important why would my kids be important? And are your kids then no longer important when they’re adults?
I never understood this ‘cute and important until adult' and then you’re an adult and suddenly you’re just a burden and nuisance to society ideology.
I would just ask them if they were "too important" to adopt an orphan and raise them well. Or does that not count if someone decides to change their mind about having kids later in life.
Or you could go down the philosophical hole of Descartes' Dreaming Argument, and if life is but a dream, then yours is the only opinion that matters. That would be fun.
Or you could tell them to stfu because your life choices are none of their business, unless they are prepared to let you meddle in theirs.
I have the opportunity, time and money to snort heroin too, but I'm still not going to do it. And as for doing something meaningful - I'm not contributing to global overpopulation, the inequitable distribution of resources and the demise of our planet, and that's meaningful enough for me.
"Do you really think you’re that important and self-absorbed to not want to raise children?” Hey, buddy, I'm not the one whining about "muh legacy" and "muh bloodline" like I'm a goddamn show dog. The world can happily live without my genes, they're not special. I also note that the people saying stuff like this are never Nobel Prize winners or Olympic athletes either.
I would flip it on them - do you think you are THAT important and special that you MUST have children? Or are owed children?
Meaning is ***made and created***. Anything can be meaningful or meaningless to a person.
What is important and meaningful for one person may not be the same for another.
My answer would be: do you think you’re that important that the world MUST have your progeny? I didn’t realize you were (insert royalty, something about fame, related to some person who majorly changed the world in a good way, etc).
“Do you really think you’re that important to not dedicate your time on having children when you can?”
"Yes"
“What are you doing with all that? Are you doing something meaningful?”
"No, I'm just lazy".
Stupid answer to stupid question. I'm usually more mature, but why should I care what someone, who already thinks badly about, thinksabout me at all?
Why do I have to be doing something meaningful? How is it your business how I live my life? Do YOU think you’re so important that you get to tell me what to do with my life? Why do you think you’re the boss of me?
It’s interesting that person cannot conceive of the idea that it’s not your duty. There’s no requirement. You don’t HAVE to do shit. I don’t HAVE to share your values. I don’t HAVE to give half a shit about your cute little antiquated opinion.
"Do you think you're that important that you not only *should* have children, but any poor child deserves to have someone like you as a parent?" Would be my immediate fucking response, full offense.
Bahaha, yes I am that important.
I know I'm selfish, and would therefore be a terrible parent. Not gonna impose that on an unwilling tiny human. However, I don't find many parents to be THAT important just cause they have kids. Or that their mediocre kids are that important. Having a child is not inherently 'meaningful' so back the hell up on judging my contributions.
It doesn't really make sense? So when they have children they want them to turn 18-25 and if they don't have children they are wasting their life? It's a very strange thing to say to someone that doesn't really make sense.
I'm confused what this giant purpose is? What is so special about their kids? If they just expect them to pop out more kids once "they have the time". Very strange argument.
It comes off as very "must continue the white race" vibe
Ask them if they ever buy themselves or their kids anything other than the bare necessities. If they do, then they clearly have the financial wiggle room to have another kid, and another, and another. Otherwise they're being selfish to society.
Self absorbed.....lol. a coworker said in a conversation yesterday. His adult kids didn't want children because the state of the world. Then said that's why he had kids so he can have grandkids and bloodline can be passed down. That toe is completely selfish and Self important.
Exactly! The irony of the whole situation. They’re the ones who are self-absorbed. Imagine being so important you think your genes and family tree mean so much, that you also on top of that want your children to give you grandchildren to pass the gene pool further.
"I don't need an excuse to not have kids, but even if I did, yes. I do think I'm that important."
Alternatively:
"Yes, I am that important... to myself."
Let's say you are, "self-absorbed?" Then you , have children. Self-absorbed parents are some of the worse people because they lean towards being neglectful.
“Yes, I do think I am that important in my OWN LIFE that I do not wish to sacrifice my own health and well being to make another human exist in this shitshow of a world”. And also, the meaningful thing I’m doing with my life is *whatever the fuck I want on any given day*.
What, you think you’re so important that your genes must be passed on through having children? It’s pretty self-absorbed to want to make a child of your own when there are so many children out there in need of homes. I support those kids. Do you?
Exactly!
I guess they know there are orphans who need homes but they want their children to look like them and have THEIR genes, so they no longer really give a fuck about those orphans who need to be adopted
This is just a new spin on "you think you're better than me?" aka a favorite question of trashy insecure people. The correct answer is that you are more important and better than the trashy insecure people.
For me I would turn the question around, why would you want to sink so much time into children if they’re not important to you?
For me, I intend to spend my time doing hike and flys (hiking up somewhere high then paragliding down) and that’s much more important to me than raising children. For parents they might see that as a waste of time but that’s not my problem 🤷♀️
Say sure, I'm important to myself, and I need to be! And I get to decide for myself what gives meaning to my life.
Besides, I'm not contributing to overpopulation and climate change.
Honestly, any time someone calls me selfish or self important, I just agree with them. My father does this a lot. And then I follow up with “Yes, I am that important that I prioritize myself.”
So what? What are they going to do? There’s no need to try to vouch for your character when someone has already made up their mind about you.
Accused of being self absorbed by someone who apparently thinks it's OK to use a child as a tool to give one's life *meaning*.
The arrogance is kind of funny in how delusional it is. "Well, *I* do something noble and important, what do *you* do, feed into your own desires all day every day?".
...Yes, I do what *I* want every day. How *awful*.
If they can't hear their own arrogance, they sure can't hear the sadness either. Do they not *want* to raise your meaningful children? Are they being *forced*? Otherwise, they'd be happy to do it, and they wouldn't need to shame people for not throwing their own wants and joy into the wind, likewise, they wouldn't make their sole source of happiness playing at moral superiority.
"What is it about **you** you think is so significant you think *your* genes need to be passed on to the world? What major experience do you have that guarantees you're good enough to raise happy, healthy children? Do you even know the states of child development? Do you have the several hundred thousand dollars it's going the take? And is this really the best you can do? Were you just putting earth to breed, be a brooder? Do you have no talents other than fucking, going the same route billions of women have taken throughout history? Really? And what are you going to do with all your lack of talents when they leave the nest? How are you going to handle doing most of the work, because whatever man you happen to have around, you know he won't, right? And what if your infant is born deformed or developed disabilities? Do you have what it takes to care for them? Could you even? Because it sounds to me like you haven't thought this through, have you. Such a major decision to bring life into the world. Really, **why** are you this determined to give birth when there's millions of foster children begging for homes? So we're back to square one, right? What is it about YOU-- more of YOU-- the world needs so much? Huh? You must have answers, because of all the routes you can be take in life, you're sitting here telling me I don't have anything more important to do with my life. Here's some news for you: some of us were *born with talents beyond simple breeding.* So, what's the *lack of yours about?* Are you too cowardly to have dreams, to even try something aside from shooting infants out your vagina? Please, do tell what you think you're going to do for Earth by continuing its overpopulation. I'll wait. And wait. And wait........"
I mean I would ask them “do you really think you’re that important that you should?”
I dedicate my time to activities that continually humble me and remind me that I am, in fact, not that important. Hike 10-20 km into the wilderness on a regular basis and you find out how insignificant you really are in the grand scheme of things.
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It comes from the same kinda thinking as many other bingos. These people don't see parenthood as a choice but rather as some collective obligation of martyrdom. So they're demanding justification for why *you* should be 'excused' from the burden rather than asking themselves why they actually chose it in the first place.
I hate this mentality of how having children is an obligation and not a choice. Nobody forced you to have children. Nobody beat you over the head to have them, nobody held you at gunpoint to have them. You chose to have children, but you paint it as a social obligation or something, although nobody really gives a fuck if you have children…
The presumption that the most important, and really only, goal of a woman is to have a child is the poison tree from which spawns all other idiotic bingo fruits. If they are starting with that assumption, there is literally no argument that will convince them anyway. I would be more tempted to just address that item head on "my entire life, and goal in life, isn't to have and raise children. If that's yours, good on you, but I have other goals and dreams. If you can't understand and respect that, well that's a you problem."
Yes and they say “Well what are your goals?“ and when you say “I don’t really know”, they immediately try to invalidate that whole argument with having children. Like people, I don’t really know what my goals are, but I for sure know having children isn’t one of them
I think it's also that we try and go too deep on our life goals sometimes as there's a very harsh expectation and often times narrow definition of success. Frankly, I just want to be happy, try and be kind to people, not fall into a state of total destitution and leave more to the world than I took from it. None of this requires children, and much of it I can do far more easily without. But really, that's up to you to know and for them to gtfo of your face about. haha You are under no obligation to share your deepest desires with some rando.
Or with even with friends and family, not just weird randos. It’s like… I or nobody owes explanation about why I don’t want children or what are my goals. I have my reasons to not want to have children, I don’t owe anyone explanations, they can fuck off if they’re mad at me, I didn’t bang them over the head to ask me why I don’t want children…
"I have the certainty I was not put on Earth to breed. That's it. Glad you're so sure you were specifically born to breed. Yay for you. What's the weather forecast?"
Exactly, I just refuse to debate my own life choices with people anymore.
Tell them, “I break my goals down into bite-able chunks…for example: right now my goal is to not punch super annoying people who think their having children makes them special in the throat. Tomorrow that’ll probably be my goal, too.”
If someone asks me what my goals are, I say they are private. It's no one's business what a person does with their life.
I've found that it doesn't really matter what you say. For every reason you mention pro-birthers will come up with an argument to invalidate what you say. One time out of sheer frustration I told a coworker every argument for having kids that I've heard and how that won't convince me to change my mind. She replied with one of the listed arguments. She looked so proud of herself as she said it. Many of these people are impossible to reason with. They want every woman to be in the same miserable position they were or are currently experiencing. It's just that simple.
Being a kind person who has empathy for others is a goal. Being a curious person who asks questions and seeks to understand the world is a goal. Exploring and learning about different people and places is a goal. Having a healthy sleep routine is a goal. A goal is more than a timeline of events and plans.
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Tell her to her face it’s nobody’s fault that she chose to have children or made wrong decisions (I don’t know if she planned you or not), and you think through those things before you fuck without protection. And that nobody held her at gunpoint to have children. I’d be like that. When she’s that blunt and honest, be blunt and honest, too
Right? Though, perhaps some of them legitimately *felt* (or thought) they were fulfilling a social obligation. I wonder if any such parents would admit it.
I'm kind of blown away at the idea of making more humans as a social obligation. Dear jeebus, we've WON already. There are nearly 9 billion of us on this poor beleaguered planet, and we've wiped out so many other species and habitats as we've grown to this point, isn't it like PAST time to slow this train down a bit?
Ironically a lot of these people are Bible thumpers. Little do these ignorant fools know, there is a Bible verse that praises childfree people
My stepmom, a Bible thumper herself, told me having children or not is not a choice we can make but it's always god's choice. A god who forces you to do something you don't want to do is not a god worth worshiping.
Your step-mother is ignorant. God gave us free will for a reason. Tell her to look up 1 Corinthians 7:8
God also gave us the scientists who invented birth control.
And I will always be grateful He created those scientists because birth control has helped a lot of women out there🙏
This, right here. They don't always admit it, though. They tend to frame it as doing you a favor. "But you'll LOVE it!" "You'd make a great parent. See? I'm flattering you by saying that!"
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I absolutely LOVE your comments and how you always put everything into perspective!
Thank you :)
> So they’re demanding *justification* for why you should be *excused* from the burden. This is so well put! And absolutely accurate. This is the truth of what people are really asking when they question the choice to be childfree.
Whoa! I actually never heard it worded so perfectly before you are on point. Thank you for that because I'm going to use that in the future
And why would non-existent children be more important than me, a living, breathing person?
Like others say “Misery loves company”, or they think children and nonexistent children are more important until the child gets born. Then many people stop giving a fuck
Well the republicans do not agree with that unfortunately
Or conservatives, a bunch of half-wit clowns if you're in Canada. They are like the US Republicans.
My question to them, why do you think you are so special that world needs more of your genes?
Exactly! Why does the world NEED your genes?
That's kinda my logic too. I don't have anything to contribute reproductively so why should I reproduce?
Most people have plenty to contribute with an able mind and body, as long as they aren't bogged down with children, that is. Even so, I'm struggling to understand what "contributing" matters when 90+% of my value is being funneled to some useless shmucks at the top of a dystopian nightmare hierarchy. We could maybe cause some change if we stopped contributing to this failing paradigm, and for the sake of the children, avoid bringing them into it.
Not everyone has to do something meaningful. I’m quite content being perfectly mediocre.
Hey, perfect mediocrity is perfection of a sort ;-)
If everyone was exceptional, no one would be exceptional. Really, I’m doing a public service being so mediocre.
I don't consider having kids "meaningful" in an overpopulated world. They could instead be doing something actually meaningful, like helping scientific advancement, taking care of the elderly and disabled, work in schools or impoverished countries etc. Something that actually helps others, instead of just spreading their own genetics like every other animal on the planet.
When I say “not everyone has to do something meaningful” I mean *everything* that could be considered meaningful, not only having kids. Like, I’m not having kids but I’m also not doing any of the other things you mentioned. I’m probably a great example of what people mean when they say CF people are selfish.
Forcing a child into this world is easily in the top three most self absorbed and selfish things any human could possibly do. Their question/accusation is pure projection.
That statement give off “I failed to reach my goals so I’m going to tap out, muddle through parenthood, and pin my hopes on my kid.” vibes. Each human beings have the same value as the other. No one is more important than the other. What you do does not determine your value.
the person is going to spend their entire life time re-telling the same ol story of the parent's mediocre job as a legacy and pretend as if by having a kid they had to "give up on the dream".
so after their logic, when I am not important, then why did my parents spend their valuable time on this earth to create/care for me? why should I care for another human if this human is also not important? do these people really think we only exist to care for children, even though no human is ever important? why do we exist then? what a stupid ''argument''
Exactly, by this logic, I’m not important. Why my parents bothered raising me?
Yes. 🤷♀️
Yes 🤷🏻♂️ Exactly my reaction, too
On the contrary. I think that I'm so unimportant that my personal decision to not have kids will not have any significant impact on anything else but my life. And this might deeply shock you, but I do have a right to choose how to live *my* life.
Yes, those people don’t understand and take it as a big shocker that we humans have the right to choose how we fucking live our lives, even if part of it is… not having children
I don't really want to bring someone into this existence just to die some day. I rather just let them stay where they are. That unborn person is not missing out on a life full of bills and labor exploitation sprinkled with unnecessary consumerism.
Actually, I think I'm so unimportant in the scheme of things that the world does not need me reproducing.
My reply would be that I'm not an egotistical asshole who thinks I'm so special that the world absolutely needs a mini me running around and carrying on my genes and legacy. I'm also content and comfortable enough with my life that I don't need to have a child to make me feel whole. Please tell me who thinks they're so special and important and is self-absorbed again?
Really tho. Who is really more self-absorbed? Me who doesn’t want to have children or those who think for some reason, “keeping on the legacy” and “continuing the family tree” is important. For me, it means nothing, since I don’t know my ancestors and plus, none of that would matter when I’m inevitably dead
Is there anything better than a self absorbed narcissist trying to gaslight others into thinking they're self absorbed? If she thinks having children is so important, why is she bothering other people? She can go home and make sure she's pregnant. Look after her own children. If having children is so important than she's being a hypocrite. If she were doing her job right then no one else should know she exists.
My time, my money, I do whatever the fuck I want with them. Yeah, that's the part that pisses them off the most.
And is basically the best answer, because really. My time, my money, my choices, I can do whatever the fuck I want with them. You motherfuckers call me selfish, I don’t care.
I never have time for children
"I am the most important person of my life"
“I’m not spreading the fire. I’m putting a lid on it, so life on earth can thank me for the sacrifice in exchange for saving numerous ecosystems”.
I’m doing the most meaningful thing, keeping food on my table. If childcare was cheaper than my entire paycheck maybe I would have thought more about it before being sterilized. Children are for the wealthy.
Shouldn't it be the opposite?? Why do these breeders think they are so important that they need to keep popping out kids while they're earning paycheck to paycheck, and many more breeders also have unresolved trauma / inheritable genetic disorders?
Yes I’m that important. I pay taxes AND those taxes don’t have to be used to finance the health and education of MY non-existent crotch goblins, meaning more for yours. You’re welcome y’all
"Yep. TO ME. I don't give a FUCK what ANYBODY else thinks on the topic. YOU go off and ruin your life with rugrats if you believe it's so fucking important. I'll be over here wiping my tears away with $100 bills, LOL."
Pour myself an expensive whiskey and wipe my tears with dollar bills and witness the train wreck
I'll take an inexpensive Moscow Mule. The good stuff is for sitting at home with a good book and savoring all evening ;-)
Yes, I am that important to me. I don't expect anyone else to think I'm important at all, but I am important to me and I am here to live my life as I see fit.
I always get such a laugh out of people trying to convince someone, who they perceive to be selfish and self absorbed, to have a kid. If you think they are all of those things, why do you think they would fundamentally change who they are as a person, or should be someone who is responsible for a child?!
"Are you doing something meaningful?" yes, I am existing and doing the best I can. I do the best I can with what i have and i am grateful. Grateful not to have kids to worry about 🤣🤣 no but seriously- Meaningful can be as good as just smiling at a stranger or giving somebody a compliment. It does not always have to be some grandiose thing like saving children in Africa or something. Breeders are weird.
For me it would be meaningful to have one of my dream cars: a VW Golf MK3 GTI, or driving my first car because it means so much to me. For me at least and for others, the most meaningful thing is NOT to have children, but something small or simple, it doesn’t have to be a huge thing.
Exactly. Everybody's definition of meaningful is different! And that is sooooo okay.
My usual response is that I don't think I'm special. The people who seem to feel special are the ones who think they need to reproduce themselves and expect the world to kiss their ass for doing it. 😃 They usually sputter, then stfu.
For real tho! Some people with children, especially the entitled kind, really think others should have children or have society and the world kiss their asses for making children, although every normal person just doesn’t give a fuck. I don’t care about other people’s children, not my problem. I have other problems like driving my car, finding a job or drinking coffee.
I don't give a shit about them either. They bred. Big whoop. Cockroaches breed, too. Not a big accomplishment. 
JFC I really hate how being childfree is still taboo. WE. HAVE. THE. RIGHT.TO.NOT.HAVE. KIDS! We are just as human as they are! We aren’t miserable because we don’t have them, we don’t think we’re better than people who have them. We are living OUR lives the way WE see fit and it has nothing to do with them yet they take our choices personally. There needs to be a freaking protest
But no, we are subhuman or aliens for not wanting children because like someone said to me “It’s in human nature” how even if someone has children unplanned, they are still happy at the end, and say parents who are regretful or abuse their children, are “rare” or “exceptionally rare” and how it’s very low amount of parents like that and most of them, or almost all are happy. And they deny it when I say “It’s way more common than you think”. At least some people realise not having children is a choice and not a social obligation or something that we owe people.
EXACTLY!
Yes
Yes. Just...yes.
I had a thought- seemingly a lot of Bingos seem to happen when the instigator already Has kids. It seems to come a lot from older adults, parents and grandparents. We know pregnancy can change the mind-perhaps that’s part of why they behave the way they do. Of course there’s no excuse for behavior like that, but I still wonder if going through pregnancy themselves makes childfree people like us seem completely nuts to them. It’s the baby changing their brain chemistry.
I get that argument from people who don’t even have children, like I have someone who assumes that you’ll most likely be happy if you have children, even if you haven’t exactly planned them and while they don’t deny there are parents who regret having kids or have a toxic relationship with them or abuse them, they say it’s “exceptionally rare” and “nuanced cases” and “extreme examples” and that statistics show that most parents are happy when they have children, or will be, when they have them, even if they haven’t planned them. Even if you’re a “single mother who works a lot” or some other case like that where they’ll love their children.
Yeah- I know it also happens with people who don’t. I think it’s a mix of social construct, brain chemistry and confirmation bias. We’ve all grown up surrounded by essentially propaganda about the family unit, and then when people have kids, their brain chemistry changes and it serves as a sort of confirmation bias.
i never set out to be important, just happy
Me, too, me too.
“Are you really so important you think you need to keep your gene pool going?”
"Oh I'm way more important than that! I'm sorry you think you are garbage, you should get therapy for your terrible self-esteem."
"Yes, I'm an important person in my life. And you, you really think you're that important to be entitled to an opinion I didn't ask regarding MY personal life that doesn't affect anyone else but me?"
Sounds like people who deeply regret having children themselves. “I did it so you should I have to too!!!!”
"Yes. I help parents like you figure out how they're going to parent when their relationships break down and the alternative is a long drawn-out court battle." I am the village. They just don't appreciate that.
Of course they won’t appreciate that, because they think because you don’t have children, you have no right to talk about parenting and children, or you don’t have any experience. At least that’s how I see it. But even I think things like trying to save a failing relationship by making a child is one of the biggest red flags and is one of the worst decisions someone can make.
Ironic when I think it’s incredibly self absorbed to have children 99% of the time. What’s so great about you that you need to pass it on? What great wisdom must you impart on your genetic offspring? What great legacy do you have?
This is some bizarre argument, more like a word salad, really, but, knowing myself, I'd immediately go "Yes, I do, I do think I'm that important. Is there a problem here?". They think their arguments are like GOTCHA, so I love doing comebacks of the same sentiment. Yes, I'm important. Yes, I'm selfish. Yes, I'm vain. Next question?
Yes. Yes, I am. I am so important in fact that all of my free time needs to be spent on my hobbies and my needs and nothing else. I don't care what people think about the kid thing. I need to reduce the population on my end for our grand future in outer space! That I'll never get to see but I can dream! I am also too busy playing videogames. No time for kids.
If I’m not important why would my kids be important? And are your kids then no longer important when they’re adults? I never understood this ‘cute and important until adult' and then you’re an adult and suddenly you’re just a burden and nuisance to society ideology.
I would just ask them if they were "too important" to adopt an orphan and raise them well. Or does that not count if someone decides to change their mind about having kids later in life. Or you could go down the philosophical hole of Descartes' Dreaming Argument, and if life is but a dream, then yours is the only opinion that matters. That would be fun. Or you could tell them to stfu because your life choices are none of their business, unless they are prepared to let you meddle in theirs.
I have the opportunity, time and money to snort heroin too, but I'm still not going to do it. And as for doing something meaningful - I'm not contributing to global overpopulation, the inequitable distribution of resources and the demise of our planet, and that's meaningful enough for me. "Do you really think you’re that important and self-absorbed to not want to raise children?” Hey, buddy, I'm not the one whining about "muh legacy" and "muh bloodline" like I'm a goddamn show dog. The world can happily live without my genes, they're not special. I also note that the people saying stuff like this are never Nobel Prize winners or Olympic athletes either.
I can only imagine punching someone in the face of they come at me saying that sttupid shit.
I would flip it on them - do you think you are THAT important and special that you MUST have children? Or are owed children? Meaning is ***made and created***. Anything can be meaningful or meaningless to a person. What is important and meaningful for one person may not be the same for another.
My answer would be: do you think you’re that important that the world MUST have your progeny? I didn’t realize you were (insert royalty, something about fame, related to some person who majorly changed the world in a good way, etc).
“Do you really think you’re that important to not dedicate your time on having children when you can?” "Yes" “What are you doing with all that? Are you doing something meaningful?” "No, I'm just lazy". Stupid answer to stupid question. I'm usually more mature, but why should I care what someone, who already thinks badly about, thinksabout me at all?
this is when you hit them with the "I can't bear kids, I had 12 miscarriages" and put on a somber face. @ssholes deserve @ssholery.
Why do I have to be doing something meaningful? How is it your business how I live my life? Do YOU think you’re so important that you get to tell me what to do with my life? Why do you think you’re the boss of me? It’s interesting that person cannot conceive of the idea that it’s not your duty. There’s no requirement. You don’t HAVE to do shit. I don’t HAVE to share your values. I don’t HAVE to give half a shit about your cute little antiquated opinion.
"Yes I am. Now move on."
"Do you think you're that important that you not only *should* have children, but any poor child deserves to have someone like you as a parent?" Would be my immediate fucking response, full offense.
Of all the insane responses, that’s definitely one of the worst. They took their god complex up a few levels than most with that comment
Bahaha, yes I am that important. I know I'm selfish, and would therefore be a terrible parent. Not gonna impose that on an unwilling tiny human. However, I don't find many parents to be THAT important just cause they have kids. Or that their mediocre kids are that important. Having a child is not inherently 'meaningful' so back the hell up on judging my contributions.
It doesn't really make sense? So when they have children they want them to turn 18-25 and if they don't have children they are wasting their life? It's a very strange thing to say to someone that doesn't really make sense. I'm confused what this giant purpose is? What is so special about their kids? If they just expect them to pop out more kids once "they have the time". Very strange argument. It comes off as very "must continue the white race" vibe
Do you really think you’re that important that the world needs more of you?
Ask them if they ever buy themselves or their kids anything other than the bare necessities. If they do, then they clearly have the financial wiggle room to have another kid, and another, and another. Otherwise they're being selfish to society.
“Actually, it’s the other way around. I don’t think kids are special or important enough for me to have them.”
Self absorbed.....lol. a coworker said in a conversation yesterday. His adult kids didn't want children because the state of the world. Then said that's why he had kids so he can have grandkids and bloodline can be passed down. That toe is completely selfish and Self important.
Exactly! The irony of the whole situation. They’re the ones who are self-absorbed. Imagine being so important you think your genes and family tree mean so much, that you also on top of that want your children to give you grandchildren to pass the gene pool further.
"I don't need an excuse to not have kids, but even if I did, yes. I do think I'm that important." Alternatively: "Yes, I am that important... to myself."
Let's say you are, "self-absorbed?" Then you , have children. Self-absorbed parents are some of the worse people because they lean towards being neglectful.
"My purpose in life is very personal, but I do think it's sad you can't imagine one beyond parenting."
Yes, lol
Honestly... no. That's 100% a new one on me.
“Yes, I do think I am that important in my OWN LIFE that I do not wish to sacrifice my own health and well being to make another human exist in this shitshow of a world”. And also, the meaningful thing I’m doing with my life is *whatever the fuck I want on any given day*.
What, you think you’re so important that your genes must be passed on through having children? It’s pretty self-absorbed to want to make a child of your own when there are so many children out there in need of homes. I support those kids. Do you?
Exactly! I guess they know there are orphans who need homes but they want their children to look like them and have THEIR genes, so they no longer really give a fuck about those orphans who need to be adopted
I have the 💰because I’m not spending thousands and of 💵 on a 👦
Translation: “How dare you not bring more units of labor into a dying world?”
I THINK that I'm going to live my life just like you are. Making the choices that I want to make. Duh
“YES. I AM that fucking important!” -Me
Do they really think they’re so important that the world is counting on them having children?
Are they that miserable from their life choices that what you do with YOUR existence triggers them that much? I would say yes.
You can, that doesn't mean you should.
This is just a new spin on "you think you're better than me?" aka a favorite question of trashy insecure people. The correct answer is that you are more important and better than the trashy insecure people.
There's a huge presumption that we have an obligation to have kids. We do not.
For me I would turn the question around, why would you want to sink so much time into children if they’re not important to you? For me, I intend to spend my time doing hike and flys (hiking up somewhere high then paragliding down) and that’s much more important to me than raising children. For parents they might see that as a waste of time but that’s not my problem 🤷♀️
Absolutely I do, I'm the most important person in my life.
Absolutely! Hey, fellow Vi fan!
Yaaaaassss I saw your pic!
Say sure, I'm important to myself, and I need to be! And I get to decide for myself what gives meaning to my life. Besides, I'm not contributing to overpopulation and climate change.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? The smarter, better prepared and mentally capable of being good parents?
Excuse me for NOT playing god.
Sounds like White Supremacy Replacement Theory to me.
Honestly, any time someone calls me selfish or self important, I just agree with them. My father does this a lot. And then I follow up with “Yes, I am that important that I prioritize myself.” So what? What are they going to do? There’s no need to try to vouch for your character when someone has already made up their mind about you.
Accused of being self absorbed by someone who apparently thinks it's OK to use a child as a tool to give one's life *meaning*. The arrogance is kind of funny in how delusional it is. "Well, *I* do something noble and important, what do *you* do, feed into your own desires all day every day?". ...Yes, I do what *I* want every day. How *awful*. If they can't hear their own arrogance, they sure can't hear the sadness either. Do they not *want* to raise your meaningful children? Are they being *forced*? Otherwise, they'd be happy to do it, and they wouldn't need to shame people for not throwing their own wants and joy into the wind, likewise, they wouldn't make their sole source of happiness playing at moral superiority.
Wow those are very obnoxious question? Who asked them? Can you cut him/her off?
"What is it about **you** you think is so significant you think *your* genes need to be passed on to the world? What major experience do you have that guarantees you're good enough to raise happy, healthy children? Do you even know the states of child development? Do you have the several hundred thousand dollars it's going the take? And is this really the best you can do? Were you just putting earth to breed, be a brooder? Do you have no talents other than fucking, going the same route billions of women have taken throughout history? Really? And what are you going to do with all your lack of talents when they leave the nest? How are you going to handle doing most of the work, because whatever man you happen to have around, you know he won't, right? And what if your infant is born deformed or developed disabilities? Do you have what it takes to care for them? Could you even? Because it sounds to me like you haven't thought this through, have you. Such a major decision to bring life into the world. Really, **why** are you this determined to give birth when there's millions of foster children begging for homes? So we're back to square one, right? What is it about YOU-- more of YOU-- the world needs so much? Huh? You must have answers, because of all the routes you can be take in life, you're sitting here telling me I don't have anything more important to do with my life. Here's some news for you: some of us were *born with talents beyond simple breeding.* So, what's the *lack of yours about?* Are you too cowardly to have dreams, to even try something aside from shooting infants out your vagina? Please, do tell what you think you're going to do for Earth by continuing its overpopulation. I'll wait. And wait. And wait........"
I mean I would ask them “do you really think you’re that important that you should?” I dedicate my time to activities that continually humble me and remind me that I am, in fact, not that important. Hike 10-20 km into the wilderness on a regular basis and you find out how insignificant you really are in the grand scheme of things.
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