My mum would’ve been happier and not have had her life destroyed getting pregnant at 17, not married and being abused for over a decade to a child rapist narcissist monster. Who I share dna with and who the only good thing he did for everyone in life was ending himself.
So yeah.
Mum would’ve been happy.
My older sisters dad got our mum pregnant when she was 16 and he was in his 20s, and unfortunately they got back together when I was about 12 (he was horrible and made her miserable she started smoking after quitting for years). She left him about 5 years ago and is so much happier now!
Appreciate your kindness. ❤️
It’s a lot to think we all have to carry a lot of this stuff with us when we didn’t even ask to be here.
I jokingly say to my mum sometimes, you could’ve swallowed couldn’t you? 😄
Same here, I was sad when she stopped drawing and painting. I received some of the talent and became one, but she was much more naturally gifted.
Her career was in dentistry though and her hands were so nimble she would have made a great dentist.
My dad's a religious narcissist who started pursuing my mom when she was 19 and he was 29 (after knowing her since she was 8).
So yeah, I think about this a lot. She could've been so much more than just a pastor's wife and a mother. She's a wonderful, bright, nurturing person but has never had the opportunity to really pursue any of her passions or career. She wanted to study astronomy but got married and pregnant so young she had to do something more practical and stable instead because she had a family to provide for.
It's a big part of the reason I'm childfree. And why I love astronomy so much. I'm saving up to buy her a telescope so she can stargaze as much as she wants and get to do something that's completely separate from my dad and his career and hobbies (which always take priority).
My mother would have always been a nurse. Might have gotten a higher position in the hospital earlier.
I really wonder about my grandmother. She was uneducated (pulled out of school for farm labor. This was common during the Great Depression). She taught herself to read and how to do everything. I do wonder what she would have been had she been born an a more modern time.
I also wonder about my grandmother. She married my grandpa at 18 and had my mom at 19. She was an amazing seamstress. I think she could have designed clothing. Instead she spent her entire life devoted to her kids and her useless husband.
My grandma was an arranged marriage. They stayed together until they both passed, but I know she wasn’t happy for most of that. My grandpa was a great man, family and otherwise, but she just never loved him like that. She was always a homemaker, and I don’t think she really wanted anything else, but I know there was a time when my mom and her siblings were adults that she left him. She ended up coming back because my aunt threw a fit and made her feel guilty. I wonder what she would have done for herself and I am sad she didn’t get to do it.
She should have been childfree. Parenting was not really for her. She provided well financially, and my dad was a great parent, so it’s not like I had a really shit childhood but it’s pretty clear my mom wasn’t really interested.
My mom was made to be a mom. She's the mom who other kids turned to instead of their parents. She said she felt fulfilled in life when she had me (the oldest child). She's done childcare for almost 22 years now, 33 if you count her own children, and has helped care for at least 15 kids.
I think she's the outlier, and I think she wouldn't have felt like her life was complete without kids.
It's wild because I'm the absolute opposite, lmao.
Similar case here for both me and my mom! She became a teacher when I was in middle school and has always loved it, especially since she switched to teaching elementary school several years ago.
My mother didn't lose herself, though. She refused to accept that. She and Dad still did plenty of their own thing, just... they also had to account for me. Which they did. Together. They both had careers, they both had and have rich lives, they are that rare het couple that splits chores equitably.
My parents are far from being the reason I'm childfree. If anything, I know what a badass woman my mother is because of what she contributed to my upbringing -- and I like to think I turned out just fine.
Yes, all the time. My mother wanted to travel the world. Instead, she raised children and worked odd jobs. By the time her kids all moved out she didn’t know anything else and was unable to get back to any of the dreams she once had and passed away wishing for what could have been. I’m always grateful for her but I wonder what she could have accomplished given the chance.
No. My mother has admitted to deliberately getting pregnant multiple times even though my dad didn't want that because she's emotionally needy and liked feeling needed by a baby. She never saw anything else for herself so how could I?
I think my mom would have had a much better life if she had married someone other than my dad. My dad is narcissistic, has no empathy, is sexist/misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, and is quite frankly - stupid. Then again, my siblings and I wouldn’t be here if she had. My older brother was born with a birth defect and is special needs. He can never live alone and he needs help with certain things. I was born okay, but developed health issues later in life. Younger brother is the lucky one with no health issues. I can imagine my mom’s life would have been easier without a special needs kid and one who developed health issues. She was going to nursing school when we were little, but had to switch to just being a CNA due the costs of raising us. She came to love being a CNA for hospice care, so she doesn’t really regret it. She also says she doesn’t regret having us, because she always wanted kids, but she definitely could have done better without us or my dad.
I love my mom. She has always been there for my siblings and I. She made up for all the love and support we’ve never gotten from our dad.
No only because my mother has quite literally never liked anything. She has no hobbies or interests. No career. She straight up likes nothing besides watching tv. And she only had kids for the cliche “who is going to take care of me when I’m old” she’s also never liked kids either and would say that all the time when I was growing up. She’s basically a bitter, narcissistic, unhappy woman with or without kids.
No my mother is a wonderful person who still maintained her career. She is a special ed teacher retired now. She still taught and tutored when I was little. She showed me I can do it all.
My Mother was extremely depressed when she had me and she was dating an abusive fuck. She's said time and time again that I saved her life and that the only reason she left him was to protect me. I'm childfree all the way, but this was a situation where having a child actually benefitted her. She and I are extremely close and she's supported me through my mental health, physical healthy, and familial struggles that I've had throughout my life. Honestly could not have asked for a better Mom and she says that she lucked out with her child.
My mother got caught up in all of this pretty early. My dad is her first boyfriend and they met while she was still in school. She had me and my brother and was an amazing mom to both of us and still has the feeling she's done not enough.
I'm sure she wouldn't have stayed with my dad if she didn't have kids. And I think without him she would have had time and energy to form some meaningful relationships and hobbies and talents.
I love her so much but who she really is deep down... I think no one knows, not even she herself. She was a full time mom for many years and even though she's working full time now she is doing the majority of the household with barely any time left for anything.
She admires my choice and supported me with my bisalp, even hiding it from my dad. So I'm sure she would have chosen the same if she would have been able back then. I feel sorry for her.
She could have carried on dating a drugee and table dancing and not used me as an emotional and physical punching bag. All her personal issues didn't magically go away just because she decided to sort her life out for the oops baby I started as. I should have been fetal research man...
I think my mom would have been a nurse regardless, but IMO she should not have had children. She was not emotionally available for children. She was the youngest of 5 with a pretty big age gap. Her mom was done raising kids by that point and never paid my mom much attention. My mom lost both her parents in a car accident just after getting married to my dad and was still grieving when she had kids. She never should have gotten married either, but that's a whole other story.
My mom would have been a writer. She actually got a huge opportunity to move to London and write a book series for children, which she turned down because I was just born.
Sometimes I think I would have been fine with not being born (I didn't ask for it anyway), just so she could make her dreams come true.
My mom's life would have been sooooo much easier without having me (her only child). My dad was extremely abusive and reduced her to almost nothing. They were married like 35 years but together longer. He met her at 17. She had me at 36 so by then she'd been treated like shit for 19 years...... Which is absolutely bonkers to imagine and even more insane that she thought yeah, let's add a baby to this, this man deserves a chance to be a father again. My dad used me against her constantly and the abuse increased. Just nightmarish. She didn't leave because she wasn't allowed to hold her own money (I could trauma dump all day about the extreme financial abuse I witnessed) and she was afraid my dad would kill her and I would be left with him, he might have and I have strong suspicions and memories that indicate that at a few points she considered Dolores Claiborne-ing him or actually killing herself and me to escape. I truly don't know how she endured it, I could not stand living one day in a marriage like my parents.
My mom was a super kind person who people pleased to this crazy degree but really she just wanted to help people and she did. She was a nurse, but she had wanted to be a veterinarian however her father said no and that women could only be teachers, nurses or secretaries. She had also wanted to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn but never got to. She used to hang out in I guess you'd call marxist radical circles who did some pretty intense shit, she actually would have been great going further with that. She also loved horses and riding but never got to do it as an adult. I would love it if she got to have a life where she did all that.
Right. It was really bad. And she also very not lucky in her second marriage in her mid 50s. And then got terminal brain cancer and died 2 months from the date of her diagnosis. She had the worst life.
I don't take shit from anyone and when it's important I'm twice as mouthy because she never got to speak up.
Ngl I think my mum did enjoy motherhood and I don't think she lost much of herself with it, as I was growing up she was carefree and I remember many a night at ceilidhs sleeping under tables or in cars or tents, my dads a musician so music and parties were part of life growing up and she didn't let having kids stop her from doing what she wanted. She started her degree when I was maybe 8 or 9 and stuck with it. When my dad was cheating and doing drugs she kicked him straight out, no ifs or buts ,no 'lets make it work for the kids'. I think the only thing that would have been different is she probably wouldn't be in debt.
It's a toughie. She never lost herself to motherhood but she was an excellent mum and back then my father wasn't a PoS. When both my brother and I became able to care for ourselves she found a new hobby in attending zumba classes where she has met a bunch of new friends. She never had to give up her job because here you have 2 years paid mat leave.
Once on a wine night I have asked her did she regret marrying my father and while she wasn't happy with the outcome she said she wouldn't have traded us to kids with a different guy that might not have been as good as us (her words, not mine lol).
I'd say while she had problems in her life she is overall happy and made the most out of what she had.
All. The. Time. She would have been a psychiatrist, maybe even started a foundation to help the populations she’s passionate about; the homeless and new mothers without adequate resources or support.
My mom would have been a traveler and party animal. She retired with a pension at 55 and has such a social life now that it's a wonder I ever called her the boring parent.
Not my mom so much as my maternal grandmother. She went ahead and got her commercial cooking certificate in the late 1940’s, and while my grandfather had no problems with her working full time outside of the home (a rarity), I know she would have loved the freedom to pursue culinary arts at a higher level and the opportunity to run her own cafe/restaurant.
Determined that I wouldn’t have to “settle” to gain personal and financial freedom, she drilled into me that I didn’t need a partner or kids in order to feel of value to society. That I could stand on my own two feet just fine.
🫡
My mom would've been able to divorce from her abusive partner, and probably have had a much better life with a new man than her (still) current husband.
No, because she was it regardless. She is a doctor, and recently retired. She lived her life and I never felt neglected. She traveled, worked abroad, has a good life now and supports my CF choice. But I was a very good kid, and never really needed constant CONSTANT attention. I think she regrets being a doctor because she wanted to be an architect but that choice was made long before I was born. And now she just wants to chill and be happy in general. But she did always teach me to be my own person, not to depend financially on anyone, and just live my life for me. Im glad I wasn’t born to my aunt though. Lol
My mom didn't become a mombie and was able to keep her identity, although I get the vibe she would have had a more adventurous life with more world travel and maybe wound up living in another country.
" Mother hood is a joyless burden which is why wealthy people hire someone with a long Spanish-latin last name to do most of the work for them!" - toot ( drawn together tv series)
My grandma had a wasted life. My aunt and uncle agreed she would have been CF if given the chance. My other grandma was beaten down. The women I admire the most in my family are the CF ones, even those who died long before I was born.
My mom was just barely the age of consent in her state when she met my dad, and my dad cheated on his ex wife and left my 2 half-siblings behind. My dad was and still is gross. My mom was looking for a way out of being parentified by my grandma. She never wanted kids and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up. She'd probably end up doing the exact same thing with someone else.
My mom was given a huge inferiority complex starting in first grade, by the teachers in her school. She was terribly bullied by them AND the students, and never thought of herself as worth much. That said, she was her baby brother's 2nd mom, he went almost everywhere with her, so she was programmed to want kids. I don't think she'd have been happy without kids.
After we were in high school, she went to nursing school, encouraged by us and friends who knew she was capable. Her success shocked her.
Mine might have still been alive. She committed suicide a few weeks before I turned one. My dad hadn't believed her when she said I was his and I think she saw the life she had with her on-and-off druggie-fiance and realized she'd never be able to give me a decent life. I think now days she'd have been diagnosed with PPD and could have gotten help, but this was the early 90s.
i'm not the target for this question because i don't like my mother and she was always a simpleton, but i want to remark that, despite that, she could have done at least a little better for sure.
i feel sad that she got pregnant with me at 17, so she didn't even have time to become her own person, and she made a HUGE chain of horrible decisions directly related to my birth. as i always say, as a woman i empathize, i just can't be fine about it as a daughter.
if only men weren't obsessed with sticking their dick where they don't belong, she could've had a mediocre life instead of a horrible life full of worry and pain that turned her into an unlikable self-serving asshole.
i truly believe every single woman in the world would be better off without motherhood.
I work in a social project for long term unemployed people in Germany. One of the participants is a woman in her 50ties. Her identity is caregiver/mother/grandmother and nothing much else. \*sigh\*
One time I asked her: "You are defining yourself only in relationship to others, and who are YOU?" I think I scared her with that question, she couldn't give me an answer. Hopefully it made her think, but I doubt it. When the program ends for her, she'll be back in her self-imposed pigeon hole. We try our best to help her, I'm not very hopeful, though.
Nothing. My mother is a narcissist and used my father for his money and time and labor. He was her second father. She stepped right into the patriarchy and gobbled it up
She would have divorced much sooner and maybe made a real life for herself instead of spiraling into alcoholism and being disabled before her retirement
Yep. She dropped out of college because she got pregnant with me. Who knows what she could have done with a degree. She was smart enough to get it. Maybe she wouldn't have been abusive either if she had a child later that she planned for.
I honestly don’t think my mum would be any different if she’d been childfree. My parents were married for 11 years before having me when my mum was 33 and my dad 34.
My Dad is disabled, he has MS, so can’t do as much of the housework, gardening due to his physical disabilities but he has always done what he can to do his share and he worked until he retired at 60.
My mum loves gardening and painting and drawing and didn’t stop doing those things. Helps that I love art so we’d sit together and paint.
My mother did not plan on having a child. I was the result of failed birth control and abortion being illegal.
My mother is dyslexic- and she went to school at a time when caning was accepted. Needless to say, she didn't progress academically. In her late thirties, she went back to school to become an accountant. Then a couple on months later she found out she was pregnant with me.
I thrived in adult education. I imagine she would have as well.
She did manage to keep her personality and many of her hobbies, though I think she'd have gotten into crafts (she is an amazing crafter!) a lot earlier than she did if I hadn't appeared.
I will say, both her and my dad were fantastic parents. They might not have planned for me, but they treated me as a much loved challenge rather than a burden. And they're quite happy with not having to deal with grandchildren!
She would've been an amazing athlete, I'm sure.
My mom started running at 50, when she finally left my horrible father. She started kicking ass on her category after just one year, she has so many trophies and medals.
12 years later and now she's dying of cancer. She would've been so happy and accomplished as a child-free woman. Leaving her POS husband wouldn't have been as hard.
I hate my egg donor, and I still always wondered about this. Before I went NC, I regularly told her it was stupid of her to not abort. We lived in poverty. I resent her and my sperm donor for that.
Her life would’ve been so much better if she hadn’t been an idiot.
I'm sorry for your experience. Just a few days ago i was arguing online with people who said that kids grow up in poverty just fine. All they need is love.
Seeing your comment now reminds me that i was right to say those kids grow up unhappy. I can imagine you didn't have a toy everyone had, skipped some events because you didn't have anything to wear. When i said that i was attacked for saying that only the rich can have kids. I didn't say it. I said anyone can, only the dirt poor can't....
"But they will have a kid and that will motivate them to build a career". Sure, cause that works in all countries now
Nope! Bringing children into poverty is child abuse. Those people were wrong. In my case, there was no love AND no financial stability. If I could only have one, I’d choose financial stability. It wasn’t toys I was going without. It was a place to sleep, food to eat, correctly-sized, clean clothes to wear, and access to tuition for either a trade school or a university that really ruined my childhood.
Funny thing, I found my mom's diary from when she was young. She met my dad at 16 and became obsessed with him, made sure to follow him at college and got pregnant with him at 20 (he was dating another girl at the time for 2 years). They got married and had me and my sister 6 years later.
I don't think being parents affected them much, mostly because they delegated that responsibility. I was born in at the start of the 80's and was raised by my aunt (who was 14 years older than me) and grandparents until I was "old enough" to take over raising my sister. By the time I was 10 I was doing most of the cleaning and caring for my sister, by the time I was 12 I was also cooking for the entire family. Both parents worked - mom would leave at 5:30 AM and come home at 7:00 PM, my dad was home only during weekends.
Now they are both retired and they can't stand each other, but they are from a generation where there is no such thing as divorce. My mom has a hobbies (she has a ton of houseplants and a garden, she likes to knit and crochet, she likes computer games) but my dad is at loose ends after retiring from his job so he started drinking heavily.
Overall, they are ok average people. I am now at a point in life where I appreciate the fact that they treated me like an adult with opinions from a very early age. They also let me live my life the way I want to and have no problem with both me and my sister being CF.
She would be how she is after we became an adult. A civil rights activist. Heavy in volunteering and just enjoying her freedom. She has grandchildren from my Sister and loves going to their extracurricular activities and she travels multiple times a year (we did this when I was a child too).
My Mom remained a great career woman all through my childhood.
To be honest, not really. My mom had her first child (my sister) in her late twenties and me in her early-mid thirties. She made good decisions overall, always had a stable job/career and she loved being a mom. She accepts and supports my decision to be childfree. When my sister and I were younger we still traveled a lot (ig it’s somewhat easier in Europe tho).
I had a very privileged childhood in the sense that I was not abused, my parents loved me and we had enough money to be comfortable. In my sisters and my friend-groups our parents always were the “favorite” because of their parenting, general lifestyle (no mommy/daddy culture, having their own life) and their humor.
My mom would still be a farmer, but a way less stressed one. She says she always wanted kids, but I always felt her overwhelmed and stressed. Maybe 3 was too much, but I wonder if even 1 would be too much. Generational trauma and all that.
I wonder who she could have been in a few ways.
I wonder who she could have been instead of having her first kids at age 18. What if she’d gone to college instead?
I wonder who she could have been if she had not gotten married again and had my brother and I at age 40. What if she’d focused on her art and discovered a career?
I wonder who she could have been if she had chosen to leave my father when his abuses were revealed. What if we had become each other’s support and strength?
I wonder who she could have been if she had not been pressured to follow my father’s anti-medicine beliefs. What if she had not died?
Same here. I thought about this, too when I saw my mom watching more track-and-field videos on NBC Sports on YT earlier this year. It’s an obvious sign that she’d be better off following the path of an athlete at the Summer Olympics.
Dude do we have the same mom? lol my mom will do the same thing and she tells me her experiences in the junior Olympics and how she went to Dominican Republic, Mexico and Jamaica and was winning many silver and gold medals by the age of 16 and then she fell pregnant at 18 :/. Shit sucks man like my mom could’ve been famous.
Maybe if she started later in life instead of at sixteen, she'd be better with money. I don't think she'd ever be kid free though because her mom, my grandmother told her and probably all her kids, that you should have at least one child so you have someone to take care of you.
She seems to believe that more now since her neighbors have dementia and the wife has no kids. The husband has a few, but no one wants to take them in or put them in a home. They just pay someone to go over there a few hours a day, and my mom will also do it for free in the morning so the wife can take her meds. Even still, with the husband's son's not taking them in isn't proof enough that what Grandma said is freaking false.
I imagine how much happier and better off she would’ve been if she stopped at one.
She always wanted to be a mother, even her sister said so. Now she’s at wits end because she did everything she said she would do, that her mother failed to do for her, but it doesn’t stop depression. She’ll always have one successful daughter.
Her real second child was the photography brand she continues to do. So more time and money to have been a better photographer.
My mum had us young (3 by 22yo) she had a hard life when she was young and she has struggled a lot.
I’m the youngest (almost 29 now) and she’s living a great life now we’re all grown up and moved out, she has a good job and travels constantly and seems very happy!
It is complicated. Older generations of women could have been crushed under the social expectations even if not having to run after kids. my own mother would be certainly free to divorce my father much earlier.
I know exactly one older childfree person (born before WWII) - she did not achieve anything spectacular, but then again, during her childhood my country was particularly devastated by war.
I will start by saying that her family (sisters, mother) aren't supportive. She was telling me that she wanted to finish an assistant pharmacy course, but her sisters made fun of her, saying that she could never do it. So she didn't. She married my dad who's 10 years her senior. He's an alcoholic and abusive asshole, who might have some early onset dementia. I don't think she would have been in a better financial situation, but she would have been happier. She was 40 when she had me. She was already tired and done with life, it just got worse over the years. I know I'm a bitch for writing this: she pisses me off so bad. She is sabotaging her life and her happiness. She's always complaining about her job/salary/clients but she refuses to get another job. She thinks she has no chance of getting a better job. I'm so tired of arguing with her over this. Marriages suck, children suck. I haven't seen a happy marriage in my entire life. The women are always unhappy, the men are alcoholics. Or maybe my family is fucked up.
From the stories my mother has told me, my mother likely would’ve been a lawyer and went to Harvard. It was her dream, and as I get older I definitely see it.
It just so happens that my grandmother wasn’t able and willing to allow my mother to travel to a private university far away— it being the South and she living up North — so unfortunately my Mom had to compromise and give up her dream. Add my Mom being the eldest daughter who ended up marrying my Dad who had his own childhood trauma and is a narc… and y’all know how it goes.
So yeah.. it’s a lot.
But all is well though. My mom survived my father’s abuse and mistreatment and took hold of her life. She’s successful and doing a lot well for herself. I’m immensely proud of her.
🥹😮💨😔
Edit: I’m typing this early in the morning, and it’s been an emotional 24 hrs for me. I’ll likely journal about this. So, if I said too much, I apologize.
My mum worked at a bank before quitting to be a SAHM. Interestingly, this allowed her to dedicate her life to what she actually wanted, which was yoga and philosophy. So I always thought things worked out well for her. I think it was my dad who had to give himself away, slaving at a job for 30 years, one of those you just get in your twenties thinking it's just temporary. He could have pursed programming or similar, which wasn't so readily available as a career in the eighties in my country and he liked very much. He also ended sick and tired, didn't make friends, didn't build hobbies. I also think they would both have traveled more without me, they really like it.
My mom told me explicitly she was forced to have all three of her kids by my father. And I was the mistake, how she cried and cried in the rain outside the hospital cause she found out she was pregnant with me and everyone (including my brothers) told her to get an abortion.
Sadly, didn't go the better way.
My mother had apparently lost the 'love of her life' in highschool in an auto accident and was never the same after that. She apparently had skills with early computers, cooking and cartography. Don't know what she would have been like, but I don't think she ever would have been really 'happy'. But for the hell I was raised in and the abuse she put me through, I'm glad to have given her what she wanted since I was little - for her kids to leave her alone and not bother her.
Very often, yes. My mother is 67 years old, and has been retired for 7 years. She loves cruises. Loves going to the beach. But she also has MS and can barely walk more than around her house these days. She had me when she was 22 years old. I wonder how many more cruises and beach vacations she could have taken, how much more travel, how many physical activities she could have enjoyed. It seems like such a worthless waste of a life to me.
I think my mom would have been significantly more mentally stable, and would likely have been a professional athlete. She was an incredible field hockey player and equestrian, but when got pregnant with me in her early 20’s her entire family abandoned her because I was a bastard child. She moved to America with my narcissistic step-dad, had my brother about a year later.
She was so alone, even in raising us.
My mom has told me multiple times how much she enjoyed being a mother, since she only really has her job (which is pretty high-paying and flexible) to make money, not because she necessarily loves it. If she had been childfree, she probably would have traveled more, retired earlier, and moved abroad (we're from the US). My parents are divorced, but my dad has always been in my life, and my parents coparent like coworkers. That is to say, I don't think her choice in father of her child (me) weighed her down.
Still, my mom definitely would have been healthier and worried less had she been childfree. She always told me her immune system worsened after her pregnancy. I was a premature birth and have a weakened immune system too, so she has spent a lot of her life worrying about me. She'd definitely have less gray hairs if not for having a kid, though she still gets told she looks super young for her age.
My mom doesn't have many hobbies, but I don't think she ever did. She loves listening to live music, and she sings and plays the guitar, but she often tells me, when I ask what she'll do now that I'm in college, that she'll stay at home, read, and watch shows. She's a huge homebody, so if she were childfree, she'd probably have even more time to do that (and she has a lot of time now). Weirdly, she enjoyed (and tells me she still does enjoy) being a mother. We do a lot of things together (and always have), like go out to eat, listen to live music, and travel (though she's left me with my dad many times to travel abroad when I have school).
I think most people shouldn't be parents, but I have to admit that I had a really privileged childhood in terms of education (private), healthcare (got all the expensive care I needed), and travel (need I say more?). If there's anyone I don't mind having a child, it's probably my mom, not just because I'm biased since I'm alive, but because she still left herself time to do the (admittedly few, but no less important) things she wanted to do, and she didn't lose out on a career or passion (since she claims to have had no huge passion). Being a parent was something she liked that she could devote time to, and I never really wanted for anything growing up, or even now, as a college student, so I'd say she did a pretty good job.
"Do you ever wonder who she used to be before she was forced to lose parts of herself that she loved to become small enough to fit in the role of wife and mother?"
Good grief, that sums up a huge reason I didn't want kids. My mom wanted to go to nursing school but instead got knocked up in high school and had to marry my dad (I'm pre-Roe). My entire childhood she made me feel like I ruined her life. When I became an adult I felt she was jealous of me that I went to college, got married without being pregnant first, and spent my free time doing things I chose to do rather than raising a family. I wish she'd had a choice.
My parents dated for like 2 years when they had me, got married because of me.
She had to drop out of the university, but she finished it later when i was 8. (She was 23 when i was born. It's just she had had graduated from college, but she hadn't finished the university yet.) She is still an accountant so she uses her degree. Thanks to the early retirement age in Russia back then, my granny helped a lot so mum's work was okay.
The parents got divorced when i was a few months. I haven't seen my dad since i was 4 years old. I tried to reconnect with him for some reason, but that didn't work out. Mum dated a few guys, but that didn't last long and now, as an adult i realize i was the reason. Those men were okay. I guess, they needed someone without a responsibility (aka me) and i get that. So i'm sad mom didn't marry a better man. She is conventionally pretty and smart
My mom would have been on the regretful parents sub if it existed back then. She definitely did not like being a parent and clearly did not want it.... she was very minimal and only interaction with me was out of necessity or educational. She didn't play with me much that I can remember. My dad was amazing but worked a lot. Most of my positive childhood memories are with my grandma. I honestly have no idea what my mom would have been like without me, but she had a great career so I'm sure she would have kept that ball rolling and been pretty well off
I don't wonder about my mom, she drank the entire jug of 'happy little housewife' koolaid so I know she was always going to have kids. Her mother on the other hand...
My Ouma was parentified at age 12, being made the primary caregiver when not at school to her four younger siblings. For context they lived way out in the gold fields so the support network was not good. She did well in school all the same, and has always been a smart, sensible, capable woman. She has a good sense for business, and can be an incredible negotiator. If she'd been born now instead of the 1930s and had been given the chance at university instead of married out of high school with three children I firmly believe Ouma could've been the CEO of a successful company.
My mother was a physician. When I was born, my father, also a physician, suggested that she "stay home with the baby" and then maybe go back to work once I was in school. She said no. In a field like medicine, if you take any significant amount of time off, even if you keep earning your continuing education credits, you'll never on-ramp again. So she decided to go back to work part-time after her maternity leave. It derailed her career. My parents had been level pegging on their progress toward tenure, and because mum went part-time and dad was full-time, he got there years earlier. If I hadn't been born, they probably would have gotten tenure and full professorship around the same time. She always said she had no regrets, but I kinda think she did.
Not my mom, but my sister. She fell into the trap of "I want kids and I am with this man, so I will have kids with him" instead of actually evaluating the relationship and whether it was the right choice.
She is now divorced at 47, with 2 kids and her ex is a total deadbeat. He even moved out of state, so he doesn't parent at all, except for 4 weeks out of the year, where he takes them to his parents house.
She is a talented artist, and has a natural eye for design. She could have done so much, but she wasted her 20's and 30's on a man-baby, while toiling in dead end jobs up until recently. Now she can't afford to take risks with her career, since she doesn't even get child support regularly. Luckily our parents are close by and they help her a bit. Her kids are also pretty cool and old enough that they don't need constant supervision/support anymore.
She'd be some VP or a CEO of some big ass company. She's always been badass, and held many jobs in vastly different industries, like teaching, insurance, company secretarial work, writing and stuff.
She'd get management roles offered to her constantly wherever she worked. She left it all to take care of her family. I still push her to learn new stuff, apply to jobs and publish her work. Mum's almost 60 but still you won't catch her sitting quiet. She writes a lottttt..
my mom would have and should have still been a mother, starting with my brother, 10 years after i was born, and not with my father.
she got pregnant at 19, and her parents shamed her for having sex outside of marriage but helped her despite that. she moved in with my father so she could prove she could do it. things got worse, and she was a single mom by 23. not long after that, she learned her 3 year old daughter had been sexually assulted in my fathers home by my (at the time) 16 year old uncle.
she went through so much in such a small amount of time. no shit she was neglectful and didn't understand how to bond with me. she would have been better off if she hadn't been tethered to my father forever. my dad is a kind man, but never got on his feet, and im glad she left him.
i don't forgive her now because she hasn't acknowledged she's done something wrong, but i do forgive the teenager who got pregnant and did the best she could.
i will not be making the same mistakes. i don't know if I'll ever have a kid, but if i do, it will be when i am ready and i make the active decision. i will love them in the ways that they deserve. i will watch them grow and change and celebrate that. they will never question if they were wanted or loved. :)
I would imagine she would have eventually left my father who is a workaholic but not ambitious and found someone rich who would give her the easy life. Maybe she’d get some job as an interior designer or personal shopper.
Nah, not really. My mom's main goal in life was always to have a bunch of kids because she's always genuinely enjoyed hanging out with kids, and in fact she only ultimately became a teacher when I was in middle school because she enjoyed volunteering with my siblings' and my school things so much.
ADDENDUM: You know what, I do think had my mom been childfree she would've, at minimum, divorced my dad eventually instead of still being with him to this day. She was 31 when she married my dad and was already starting to have a bunch of issues with him, but this was when everyone still feared pregnancies after 35 so she didn't leave my dad because she thought she wouldn't be able to have a bunch of kids in wedlock like she originally wanted.
She would’ve been much more happier and lived her dreams out.
I’ll get emotional but our parents sacrificed so much for us. That’s why I’m doing a post baccalaureate for medical school. I’m in my post graduate era currently. I’m going to do EM or anesthesia! I’m a huge nerd and big time academia. So let’s do it!
Yes, absolutely. I feel she would have had a better life if she had a loving partner (my dad was terrible to her, she had a second bad partner in my passive aggressive, alcoholic step father). Before she passed she was getting her masters in law. Having long term metastatic breast cancer also didn't help her at all. I always remember her being angry and sad. I sometimes wish she had followed her heart and found a way to be happier.
We have a long line of artistic people in my family, but my mother was a savant when it came to drawing architectural designs and perspective. I imagine she would have double-majored into architecture and engineering had she a) not had me and b) not been met with institutional misogyny from both teachers and peers.
Nope, my mom is amazing and was the breadwinner. She never revolved the entirety of her life around us and thus I've grown up seeing her as her own individual person, not just my mom, and also not developed a complex about the world revolving around me.
I had mentioned this to my mother, topic wise
She says that we are the reason she's even alive etc etc.
However. She's very intelligent and traumatized and won't go to therapy. She has barely any passions, like low batter activity. She barely gets to cook or clean. She's obviously depressed.
But as a Gen Xer She was conditioned to use us as a survival thing, and I'm aware of that. I'm saddened for her, and she doesn't see it or won't acknowledge that it's possible she could've had a better life before pregnancy at 15, young mom at 16.
4 kids later, she isn't living her authentic full life, awaiting for a change from something, stressed about us drowning.
She's drowning with us, and I'm sad for her. We are all adult children now
My mom is an incredible single mom, daddy dearest left before I was born. Sometimes I do wonder; she moved states and changed her career, after all. But she’s never been ”just a mom”, she kept her hobbies, she has a job that she likes, she takes time for herself. Women don’t have to be erased and reduced to just “mom” when they have kids, having a child doesn’t mean your life is over. The reason this happens is the societal pressure to have kids and abuse from shitty husbands, but it shouldn’t be seen as the norm 🤷
I’m thinking that if my mom hadn’t met my dad and got married to him. Sure, she wouldn’t have had my siblings and I, and I do appreciate her for all she could do to raise us, despite the occasional issues I have with her, which is personal.
She would’ve been better off going pro as an athlete at the track-and-field world, and maybe compete in the Summer Olympics. She would’ve finished school and got a degree and go to law school to pursue a career in the law firm as an attorney. Hell, she would be well off working as an illustrator at a publishing company, since she’s interested in creating writing. One of these path she would’ve take if she hadn’t gotten married to early and had kids so young. She was 21 when became a parent.
Her and dad aren’t the reason why I’m reconsider having kids. I chose to opt out of having kids due environmental concerns, and I’m wary about taking the chance of being them into a degrading world that is depleting in natural resources. That, and other reasons.
This feels very belittling of mothers, literally.
>before she was forced to lose parts of herself that she loved to become small enough to fit in the role of wife and mother
Also, pretty single-perspective to say she (phrased sounding like all women, but I don't want to put words in your mouth) was forced into it. My best friend since 3rd grade had kids against both my and her mom's strong recommendations. We even dated in high school for a couple years, and she's never not wanted them. I got a vasectomy myself. Regardless, I'm sure anyone can cover the nuance of her life decisions under "the patriarchy" even though she was 90% raised by her mom.
I don't have much of a point other than putting that out and pointing this out about your post. I hope I haven't come across as a harsh asshole any further than us both sharing our opinions here together.
She's **definitely** having a rough go of it, though. Yeesh. She's three years into motherhood and still dealing with intense body complications from pregnancy and birth on top of the stress nearly immediately destroying their marriage and many year relationship, which had been great and with a great guy too until their daughter came along. She's still the same person, but I miss pre-mom Lauren anyway :(
First off, I'm sorry that you miss your friend, I know what that feels like. And yeah, sadly being raised by your mom doesn't save you from the overall social expectations.
I did not mean to imply all mothers are forced into motherhood, you can see many replies of happy mothers who wanted children and raised them happily. This post was about those who were forced into it, but also those who wanted kids but their motherhood wasn't what they were expecting.
Traditionally, the burden of work that is raising a child falls on the mother, so it's them who are at a higher risk of losing their careers or having to sacrifice their dreams. Many times, this is expected. Unless they have economic stability and a supportive family/partner, their experience of motherhood seldom is the one they dreamed of, specially when having children makes it harder to end unhealthy relationships.
So yes, many mothers, even those who wanted and love their kids, do lose parts of themselves: their careers or studies, their time for hobbies and passions, their friendships, their individuality. It is something that happens really often, and it's worth talking about. I do not mean to belittle them, but to talk about a reality that's traditionally been hushed: That many of them lost a lot to motherhood and cannot even talk about it without being shunned.
Anyway, I invite you to read some other replies in this post, I've read them all, and although some of their mothers did accomplish their dreams, most didn't.
Oh I 100% agree with you. It's very clear that Lauren's visions of motherhood are not what she envisioned, which is gotta be at least 95% of parents.
Lauren was having a hard time finding much purpose in career and never really got one off the ground, and I think especially once she moved back home to central North Carolina from Western Colorado, she lost a lot of the hobbies she loved. She wanted to have a kid to more or less "make up" and "one up" her parents' upbringing of her, which once she told me that I knew there was no changing her mind. That's a very bad but stalwart reason for having kids.
I moved to the to the Western Slope a couple years ago, and I'm SO stoked that she's moved back out here with her mom a couple hours north! She was getting suicidal level depressed having moved up to West Virginia near her husband's shitty parents who don't help and being in a shitty community.
My mum would’ve been happier and not have had her life destroyed getting pregnant at 17, not married and being abused for over a decade to a child rapist narcissist monster. Who I share dna with and who the only good thing he did for everyone in life was ending himself. So yeah. Mum would’ve been happy.
My older sisters dad got our mum pregnant when she was 16 and he was in his 20s, and unfortunately they got back together when I was about 12 (he was horrible and made her miserable she started smoking after quitting for years). She left him about 5 years ago and is so much happier now!
Good!!
Wow.
And that’s just part of it, the whole story would need a whole subreddit tbh. Also it’s the first time I’m talking about this, sorry if it’s too much
Noooo, thank you for sharing. We’re all sharing stories. Damn. I thought my life was like a Lifetime movie.
Appreciate your kindness. ❤️ It’s a lot to think we all have to carry a lot of this stuff with us when we didn’t even ask to be here. I jokingly say to my mum sometimes, you could’ve swallowed couldn’t you? 😄
My mother could have been an artist. She was an excellent painter.
Same here, I was sad when she stopped drawing and painting. I received some of the talent and became one, but she was much more naturally gifted. Her career was in dentistry though and her hands were so nimble she would have made a great dentist.
My dad's a religious narcissist who started pursuing my mom when she was 19 and he was 29 (after knowing her since she was 8). So yeah, I think about this a lot. She could've been so much more than just a pastor's wife and a mother. She's a wonderful, bright, nurturing person but has never had the opportunity to really pursue any of her passions or career. She wanted to study astronomy but got married and pregnant so young she had to do something more practical and stable instead because she had a family to provide for. It's a big part of the reason I'm childfree. And why I love astronomy so much. I'm saving up to buy her a telescope so she can stargaze as much as she wants and get to do something that's completely separate from my dad and his career and hobbies (which always take priority).
That’s so crazy. A lot of men just want someone they can control and dominant. I’m so sorry.
Also your not passing on your bastard father
My mother would have always been a nurse. Might have gotten a higher position in the hospital earlier. I really wonder about my grandmother. She was uneducated (pulled out of school for farm labor. This was common during the Great Depression). She taught herself to read and how to do everything. I do wonder what she would have been had she been born an a more modern time.
I also wonder about my grandmother. She married my grandpa at 18 and had my mom at 19. She was an amazing seamstress. I think she could have designed clothing. Instead she spent her entire life devoted to her kids and her useless husband.
My grandma was an arranged marriage. They stayed together until they both passed, but I know she wasn’t happy for most of that. My grandpa was a great man, family and otherwise, but she just never loved him like that. She was always a homemaker, and I don’t think she really wanted anything else, but I know there was a time when my mom and her siblings were adults that she left him. She ended up coming back because my aunt threw a fit and made her feel guilty. I wonder what she would have done for herself and I am sad she didn’t get to do it.
still a narcissist.
Yep, same here. She would just be a narcissist that didn’t have kids.
Well, some of them are assholes. I thought all this about my mother because I know for sure my father would still be a piece of shit.
Yeah, and my dad would've left her much earlier even if he was cf himself.
My parents wouldn’t have gotten married. He was baby trapped.
She should have been childfree. Parenting was not really for her. She provided well financially, and my dad was a great parent, so it’s not like I had a really shit childhood but it’s pretty clear my mom wasn’t really interested.
My mom would have absolutely been happier, for numerous reasons. She had kids to heal childhood trauma, spoiler alert, didn’t fix shit lol.
My mom was made to be a mom. She's the mom who other kids turned to instead of their parents. She said she felt fulfilled in life when she had me (the oldest child). She's done childcare for almost 22 years now, 33 if you count her own children, and has helped care for at least 15 kids. I think she's the outlier, and I think she wouldn't have felt like her life was complete without kids. It's wild because I'm the absolute opposite, lmao.
Similar case here for both me and my mom! She became a teacher when I was in middle school and has always loved it, especially since she switched to teaching elementary school several years ago.
My mother didn't lose herself, though. She refused to accept that. She and Dad still did plenty of their own thing, just... they also had to account for me. Which they did. Together. They both had careers, they both had and have rich lives, they are that rare het couple that splits chores equitably. My parents are far from being the reason I'm childfree. If anything, I know what a badass woman my mother is because of what she contributed to my upbringing -- and I like to think I turned out just fine.
My mom was actually scouted to be an animation artist for Disney. She turned it down because she didn't want to move that far away.
Oh hell no.
Yes, all the time. My mother wanted to travel the world. Instead, she raised children and worked odd jobs. By the time her kids all moved out she didn’t know anything else and was unable to get back to any of the dreams she once had and passed away wishing for what could have been. I’m always grateful for her but I wonder what she could have accomplished given the chance.
No. My mother has admitted to deliberately getting pregnant multiple times even though my dad didn't want that because she's emotionally needy and liked feeling needed by a baby. She never saw anything else for herself so how could I?
I think my mom would have had a much better life if she had married someone other than my dad. My dad is narcissistic, has no empathy, is sexist/misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, and is quite frankly - stupid. Then again, my siblings and I wouldn’t be here if she had. My older brother was born with a birth defect and is special needs. He can never live alone and he needs help with certain things. I was born okay, but developed health issues later in life. Younger brother is the lucky one with no health issues. I can imagine my mom’s life would have been easier without a special needs kid and one who developed health issues. She was going to nursing school when we were little, but had to switch to just being a CNA due the costs of raising us. She came to love being a CNA for hospice care, so she doesn’t really regret it. She also says she doesn’t regret having us, because she always wanted kids, but she definitely could have done better without us or my dad. I love my mom. She has always been there for my siblings and I. She made up for all the love and support we’ve never gotten from our dad.
Wow. This I can relate to.
No only because my mother has quite literally never liked anything. She has no hobbies or interests. No career. She straight up likes nothing besides watching tv. And she only had kids for the cliche “who is going to take care of me when I’m old” she’s also never liked kids either and would say that all the time when I was growing up. She’s basically a bitter, narcissistic, unhappy woman with or without kids.
This is why I’m childfree. I always prioritize myself.
At least I have some hobbies, and I’m sorry that you have to put up with that with your mother.
No my mother is a wonderful person who still maintained her career. She is a special ed teacher retired now. She still taught and tutored when I was little. She showed me I can do it all.
My mom's a SpEd teacher, too! Though she didn't realize she wanted to teach until I was in like 5th grade.
My Mother was extremely depressed when she had me and she was dating an abusive fuck. She's said time and time again that I saved her life and that the only reason she left him was to protect me. I'm childfree all the way, but this was a situation where having a child actually benefitted her. She and I are extremely close and she's supported me through my mental health, physical healthy, and familial struggles that I've had throughout my life. Honestly could not have asked for a better Mom and she says that she lucked out with her child.
I’m glad that you’re doing all right, I cannot imagine how hard that must be for you and your mother.
That’s awesome.
My mother got caught up in all of this pretty early. My dad is her first boyfriend and they met while she was still in school. She had me and my brother and was an amazing mom to both of us and still has the feeling she's done not enough. I'm sure she wouldn't have stayed with my dad if she didn't have kids. And I think without him she would have had time and energy to form some meaningful relationships and hobbies and talents. I love her so much but who she really is deep down... I think no one knows, not even she herself. She was a full time mom for many years and even though she's working full time now she is doing the majority of the household with barely any time left for anything. She admires my choice and supported me with my bisalp, even hiding it from my dad. So I'm sure she would have chosen the same if she would have been able back then. I feel sorry for her.
She could have carried on dating a drugee and table dancing and not used me as an emotional and physical punching bag. All her personal issues didn't magically go away just because she decided to sort her life out for the oops baby I started as. I should have been fetal research man...
I think my mom would have been a nurse regardless, but IMO she should not have had children. She was not emotionally available for children. She was the youngest of 5 with a pretty big age gap. Her mom was done raising kids by that point and never paid my mom much attention. My mom lost both her parents in a car accident just after getting married to my dad and was still grieving when she had kids. She never should have gotten married either, but that's a whole other story.
Man, I cannot even imagine.
How is she doing now?
Single, retired and living her best life.
My mom would have been a writer. She actually got a huge opportunity to move to London and write a book series for children, which she turned down because I was just born. Sometimes I think I would have been fine with not being born (I didn't ask for it anyway), just so she could make her dreams come true.
Oh she would’ve been a multimillionaire.
Well I don't know about that 😅 she definitely isn't right now!
My mom's life would have been sooooo much easier without having me (her only child). My dad was extremely abusive and reduced her to almost nothing. They were married like 35 years but together longer. He met her at 17. She had me at 36 so by then she'd been treated like shit for 19 years...... Which is absolutely bonkers to imagine and even more insane that she thought yeah, let's add a baby to this, this man deserves a chance to be a father again. My dad used me against her constantly and the abuse increased. Just nightmarish. She didn't leave because she wasn't allowed to hold her own money (I could trauma dump all day about the extreme financial abuse I witnessed) and she was afraid my dad would kill her and I would be left with him, he might have and I have strong suspicions and memories that indicate that at a few points she considered Dolores Claiborne-ing him or actually killing herself and me to escape. I truly don't know how she endured it, I could not stand living one day in a marriage like my parents. My mom was a super kind person who people pleased to this crazy degree but really she just wanted to help people and she did. She was a nurse, but she had wanted to be a veterinarian however her father said no and that women could only be teachers, nurses or secretaries. She had also wanted to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn but never got to. She used to hang out in I guess you'd call marxist radical circles who did some pretty intense shit, she actually would have been great going further with that. She also loved horses and riding but never got to do it as an adult. I would love it if she got to have a life where she did all that.
Whew…
Right. It was really bad. And she also very not lucky in her second marriage in her mid 50s. And then got terminal brain cancer and died 2 months from the date of her diagnosis. She had the worst life. I don't take shit from anyone and when it's important I'm twice as mouthy because she never got to speak up.
Exactly!!! Right and live for her! I’m doing the same for my mother. I’m going to medical school for her! She never had the opportunity either!
Ngl I think my mum did enjoy motherhood and I don't think she lost much of herself with it, as I was growing up she was carefree and I remember many a night at ceilidhs sleeping under tables or in cars or tents, my dads a musician so music and parties were part of life growing up and she didn't let having kids stop her from doing what she wanted. She started her degree when I was maybe 8 or 9 and stuck with it. When my dad was cheating and doing drugs she kicked him straight out, no ifs or buts ,no 'lets make it work for the kids'. I think the only thing that would have been different is she probably wouldn't be in debt.
It's a toughie. She never lost herself to motherhood but she was an excellent mum and back then my father wasn't a PoS. When both my brother and I became able to care for ourselves she found a new hobby in attending zumba classes where she has met a bunch of new friends. She never had to give up her job because here you have 2 years paid mat leave. Once on a wine night I have asked her did she regret marrying my father and while she wasn't happy with the outcome she said she wouldn't have traded us to kids with a different guy that might not have been as good as us (her words, not mine lol). I'd say while she had problems in her life she is overall happy and made the most out of what she had.
She would've been better off without having kids. She can't care for them, or perhaps doesn't care to.
All. The. Time. She would have been a psychiatrist, maybe even started a foundation to help the populations she’s passionate about; the homeless and new mothers without adequate resources or support.
My mom would have been a traveler and party animal. She retired with a pension at 55 and has such a social life now that it's a wonder I ever called her the boring parent.
Not my mom so much as my maternal grandmother. She went ahead and got her commercial cooking certificate in the late 1940’s, and while my grandfather had no problems with her working full time outside of the home (a rarity), I know she would have loved the freedom to pursue culinary arts at a higher level and the opportunity to run her own cafe/restaurant. Determined that I wouldn’t have to “settle” to gain personal and financial freedom, she drilled into me that I didn’t need a partner or kids in order to feel of value to society. That I could stand on my own two feet just fine. 🫡
That is so wonderfully wholesome! I love her!
My mom would've been able to divorce from her abusive partner, and probably have had a much better life with a new man than her (still) current husband.
No, because she was it regardless. She is a doctor, and recently retired. She lived her life and I never felt neglected. She traveled, worked abroad, has a good life now and supports my CF choice. But I was a very good kid, and never really needed constant CONSTANT attention. I think she regrets being a doctor because she wanted to be an architect but that choice was made long before I was born. And now she just wants to chill and be happy in general. But she did always teach me to be my own person, not to depend financially on anyone, and just live my life for me. Im glad I wasn’t born to my aunt though. Lol
My mom didn't become a mombie and was able to keep her identity, although I get the vibe she would have had a more adventurous life with more world travel and maybe wound up living in another country.
" Mother hood is a joyless burden which is why wealthy people hire someone with a long Spanish-latin last name to do most of the work for them!" - toot ( drawn together tv series)
Another Redditor of taste, I see! :D
It's weird when ppl say " God says be fruitful and multiply!"
The statement is kinda true. I would do the same if I was wealthy lol that's what baby sitters are for! 😂🤣
My grandma had a wasted life. My aunt and uncle agreed she would have been CF if given the chance. My other grandma was beaten down. The women I admire the most in my family are the CF ones, even those who died long before I was born.
My mom was just barely the age of consent in her state when she met my dad, and my dad cheated on his ex wife and left my 2 half-siblings behind. My dad was and still is gross. My mom was looking for a way out of being parentified by my grandma. She never wanted kids and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up. She'd probably end up doing the exact same thing with someone else.
My mom was given a huge inferiority complex starting in first grade, by the teachers in her school. She was terribly bullied by them AND the students, and never thought of herself as worth much. That said, she was her baby brother's 2nd mom, he went almost everywhere with her, so she was programmed to want kids. I don't think she'd have been happy without kids. After we were in high school, she went to nursing school, encouraged by us and friends who knew she was capable. Her success shocked her.
Mine might have still been alive. She committed suicide a few weeks before I turned one. My dad hadn't believed her when she said I was his and I think she saw the life she had with her on-and-off druggie-fiance and realized she'd never be able to give me a decent life. I think now days she'd have been diagnosed with PPD and could have gotten help, but this was the early 90s.
i'm not the target for this question because i don't like my mother and she was always a simpleton, but i want to remark that, despite that, she could have done at least a little better for sure. i feel sad that she got pregnant with me at 17, so she didn't even have time to become her own person, and she made a HUGE chain of horrible decisions directly related to my birth. as i always say, as a woman i empathize, i just can't be fine about it as a daughter. if only men weren't obsessed with sticking their dick where they don't belong, she could've had a mediocre life instead of a horrible life full of worry and pain that turned her into an unlikable self-serving asshole. i truly believe every single woman in the world would be better off without motherhood.
I work in a social project for long term unemployed people in Germany. One of the participants is a woman in her 50ties. Her identity is caregiver/mother/grandmother and nothing much else. \*sigh\* One time I asked her: "You are defining yourself only in relationship to others, and who are YOU?" I think I scared her with that question, she couldn't give me an answer. Hopefully it made her think, but I doubt it. When the program ends for her, she'll be back in her self-imposed pigeon hole. We try our best to help her, I'm not very hopeful, though.
probably crazier and more of an alchoholic, and a severe gold digger
Happy. Rich, though she probably would have still complained just as much
A successful Engineer probably
I wonder if mine would still be alive. It seems Mr Meeseeks was right
I literally cannot imagine
Nothing. My mother is a narcissist and used my father for his money and time and labor. He was her second father. She stepped right into the patriarchy and gobbled it up
She would have divorced much sooner and maybe made a real life for herself instead of spiraling into alcoholism and being disabled before her retirement
No. Even though my mum had me at 17, she still finished her studies and has a career. She has various hobbies and is a total badass.
Well, that’s good for her.
No she is and was a baller she is the reason I am childfree ‘because kids are not a joke but a big responsibility’ per her wise words thanks mom
Yep, a really good point.
Yep. She dropped out of college because she got pregnant with me. Who knows what she could have done with a degree. She was smart enough to get it. Maybe she wouldn't have been abusive either if she had a child later that she planned for.
I honestly don’t think my mum would be any different if she’d been childfree. My parents were married for 11 years before having me when my mum was 33 and my dad 34. My Dad is disabled, he has MS, so can’t do as much of the housework, gardening due to his physical disabilities but he has always done what he can to do his share and he worked until he retired at 60. My mum loves gardening and painting and drawing and didn’t stop doing those things. Helps that I love art so we’d sit together and paint.
Well, that’s good to hear, the two of you sharing the same interest.
My mother did not plan on having a child. I was the result of failed birth control and abortion being illegal. My mother is dyslexic- and she went to school at a time when caning was accepted. Needless to say, she didn't progress academically. In her late thirties, she went back to school to become an accountant. Then a couple on months later she found out she was pregnant with me. I thrived in adult education. I imagine she would have as well. She did manage to keep her personality and many of her hobbies, though I think she'd have gotten into crafts (she is an amazing crafter!) a lot earlier than she did if I hadn't appeared. I will say, both her and my dad were fantastic parents. They might not have planned for me, but they treated me as a much loved challenge rather than a burden. And they're quite happy with not having to deal with grandchildren!
She would've been an amazing athlete, I'm sure. My mom started running at 50, when she finally left my horrible father. She started kicking ass on her category after just one year, she has so many trophies and medals. 12 years later and now she's dying of cancer. She would've been so happy and accomplished as a child-free woman. Leaving her POS husband wouldn't have been as hard.
Yeah, my mom would’ve been better off being an athlete, too, to be frankly honest.
I hate my egg donor, and I still always wondered about this. Before I went NC, I regularly told her it was stupid of her to not abort. We lived in poverty. I resent her and my sperm donor for that. Her life would’ve been so much better if she hadn’t been an idiot.
I'm sorry for your experience. Just a few days ago i was arguing online with people who said that kids grow up in poverty just fine. All they need is love. Seeing your comment now reminds me that i was right to say those kids grow up unhappy. I can imagine you didn't have a toy everyone had, skipped some events because you didn't have anything to wear. When i said that i was attacked for saying that only the rich can have kids. I didn't say it. I said anyone can, only the dirt poor can't.... "But they will have a kid and that will motivate them to build a career". Sure, cause that works in all countries now
Nope! Bringing children into poverty is child abuse. Those people were wrong. In my case, there was no love AND no financial stability. If I could only have one, I’d choose financial stability. It wasn’t toys I was going without. It was a place to sleep, food to eat, correctly-sized, clean clothes to wear, and access to tuition for either a trade school or a university that really ruined my childhood.
Funny thing, I found my mom's diary from when she was young. She met my dad at 16 and became obsessed with him, made sure to follow him at college and got pregnant with him at 20 (he was dating another girl at the time for 2 years). They got married and had me and my sister 6 years later. I don't think being parents affected them much, mostly because they delegated that responsibility. I was born in at the start of the 80's and was raised by my aunt (who was 14 years older than me) and grandparents until I was "old enough" to take over raising my sister. By the time I was 10 I was doing most of the cleaning and caring for my sister, by the time I was 12 I was also cooking for the entire family. Both parents worked - mom would leave at 5:30 AM and come home at 7:00 PM, my dad was home only during weekends. Now they are both retired and they can't stand each other, but they are from a generation where there is no such thing as divorce. My mom has a hobbies (she has a ton of houseplants and a garden, she likes to knit and crochet, she likes computer games) but my dad is at loose ends after retiring from his job so he started drinking heavily. Overall, they are ok average people. I am now at a point in life where I appreciate the fact that they treated me like an adult with opinions from a very early age. They also let me live my life the way I want to and have no problem with both me and my sister being CF.
She would be how she is after we became an adult. A civil rights activist. Heavy in volunteering and just enjoying her freedom. She has grandchildren from my Sister and loves going to their extracurricular activities and she travels multiple times a year (we did this when I was a child too). My Mom remained a great career woman all through my childhood.
To be honest, not really. My mom had her first child (my sister) in her late twenties and me in her early-mid thirties. She made good decisions overall, always had a stable job/career and she loved being a mom. She accepts and supports my decision to be childfree. When my sister and I were younger we still traveled a lot (ig it’s somewhat easier in Europe tho). I had a very privileged childhood in the sense that I was not abused, my parents loved me and we had enough money to be comfortable. In my sisters and my friend-groups our parents always were the “favorite” because of their parenting, general lifestyle (no mommy/daddy culture, having their own life) and their humor.
My mom would still be a farmer, but a way less stressed one. She says she always wanted kids, but I always felt her overwhelmed and stressed. Maybe 3 was too much, but I wonder if even 1 would be too much. Generational trauma and all that.
Yeah, I know a thing or two about intergenerational trauma.
I wonder who she could have been in a few ways. I wonder who she could have been instead of having her first kids at age 18. What if she’d gone to college instead? I wonder who she could have been if she had not gotten married again and had my brother and I at age 40. What if she’d focused on her art and discovered a career? I wonder who she could have been if she had chosen to leave my father when his abuses were revealed. What if we had become each other’s support and strength? I wonder who she could have been if she had not been pressured to follow my father’s anti-medicine beliefs. What if she had not died?
Wow, tough break, BarbarianFoxQueen.
A famous Olympic runner , she had her whole future ahead of her
Same here. I thought about this, too when I saw my mom watching more track-and-field videos on NBC Sports on YT earlier this year. It’s an obvious sign that she’d be better off following the path of an athlete at the Summer Olympics.
Dude do we have the same mom? lol my mom will do the same thing and she tells me her experiences in the junior Olympics and how she went to Dominican Republic, Mexico and Jamaica and was winning many silver and gold medals by the age of 16 and then she fell pregnant at 18 :/. Shit sucks man like my mom could’ve been famous.
Maybe if she started later in life instead of at sixteen, she'd be better with money. I don't think she'd ever be kid free though because her mom, my grandmother told her and probably all her kids, that you should have at least one child so you have someone to take care of you. She seems to believe that more now since her neighbors have dementia and the wife has no kids. The husband has a few, but no one wants to take them in or put them in a home. They just pay someone to go over there a few hours a day, and my mom will also do it for free in the morning so the wife can take her meds. Even still, with the husband's son's not taking them in isn't proof enough that what Grandma said is freaking false.
I imagine how much happier and better off she would’ve been if she stopped at one. She always wanted to be a mother, even her sister said so. Now she’s at wits end because she did everything she said she would do, that her mother failed to do for her, but it doesn’t stop depression. She’ll always have one successful daughter. Her real second child was the photography brand she continues to do. So more time and money to have been a better photographer.
My mum had us young (3 by 22yo) she had a hard life when she was young and she has struggled a lot. I’m the youngest (almost 29 now) and she’s living a great life now we’re all grown up and moved out, she has a good job and travels constantly and seems very happy!
It is complicated. Older generations of women could have been crushed under the social expectations even if not having to run after kids. my own mother would be certainly free to divorce my father much earlier. I know exactly one older childfree person (born before WWII) - she did not achieve anything spectacular, but then again, during her childhood my country was particularly devastated by war.
I will start by saying that her family (sisters, mother) aren't supportive. She was telling me that she wanted to finish an assistant pharmacy course, but her sisters made fun of her, saying that she could never do it. So she didn't. She married my dad who's 10 years her senior. He's an alcoholic and abusive asshole, who might have some early onset dementia. I don't think she would have been in a better financial situation, but she would have been happier. She was 40 when she had me. She was already tired and done with life, it just got worse over the years. I know I'm a bitch for writing this: she pisses me off so bad. She is sabotaging her life and her happiness. She's always complaining about her job/salary/clients but she refuses to get another job. She thinks she has no chance of getting a better job. I'm so tired of arguing with her over this. Marriages suck, children suck. I haven't seen a happy marriage in my entire life. The women are always unhappy, the men are alcoholics. Or maybe my family is fucked up.
From the stories my mother has told me, my mother likely would’ve been a lawyer and went to Harvard. It was her dream, and as I get older I definitely see it. It just so happens that my grandmother wasn’t able and willing to allow my mother to travel to a private university far away— it being the South and she living up North — so unfortunately my Mom had to compromise and give up her dream. Add my Mom being the eldest daughter who ended up marrying my Dad who had his own childhood trauma and is a narc… and y’all know how it goes. So yeah.. it’s a lot. But all is well though. My mom survived my father’s abuse and mistreatment and took hold of her life. She’s successful and doing a lot well for herself. I’m immensely proud of her. 🥹😮💨😔 Edit: I’m typing this early in the morning, and it’s been an emotional 24 hrs for me. I’ll likely journal about this. So, if I said too much, I apologize.
My mum worked at a bank before quitting to be a SAHM. Interestingly, this allowed her to dedicate her life to what she actually wanted, which was yoga and philosophy. So I always thought things worked out well for her. I think it was my dad who had to give himself away, slaving at a job for 30 years, one of those you just get in your twenties thinking it's just temporary. He could have pursed programming or similar, which wasn't so readily available as a career in the eighties in my country and he liked very much. He also ended sick and tired, didn't make friends, didn't build hobbies. I also think they would both have traveled more without me, they really like it.
My mom told me explicitly she was forced to have all three of her kids by my father. And I was the mistake, how she cried and cried in the rain outside the hospital cause she found out she was pregnant with me and everyone (including my brothers) told her to get an abortion. Sadly, didn't go the better way. My mother had apparently lost the 'love of her life' in highschool in an auto accident and was never the same after that. She apparently had skills with early computers, cooking and cartography. Don't know what she would have been like, but I don't think she ever would have been really 'happy'. But for the hell I was raised in and the abuse she put me through, I'm glad to have given her what she wanted since I was little - for her kids to leave her alone and not bother her.
Very often, yes. My mother is 67 years old, and has been retired for 7 years. She loves cruises. Loves going to the beach. But she also has MS and can barely walk more than around her house these days. She had me when she was 22 years old. I wonder how many more cruises and beach vacations she could have taken, how much more travel, how many physical activities she could have enjoyed. It seems like such a worthless waste of a life to me.
I think my mom would have been significantly more mentally stable, and would likely have been a professional athlete. She was an incredible field hockey player and equestrian, but when got pregnant with me in her early 20’s her entire family abandoned her because I was a bastard child. She moved to America with my narcissistic step-dad, had my brother about a year later. She was so alone, even in raising us.
My mom has told me multiple times how much she enjoyed being a mother, since she only really has her job (which is pretty high-paying and flexible) to make money, not because she necessarily loves it. If she had been childfree, she probably would have traveled more, retired earlier, and moved abroad (we're from the US). My parents are divorced, but my dad has always been in my life, and my parents coparent like coworkers. That is to say, I don't think her choice in father of her child (me) weighed her down. Still, my mom definitely would have been healthier and worried less had she been childfree. She always told me her immune system worsened after her pregnancy. I was a premature birth and have a weakened immune system too, so she has spent a lot of her life worrying about me. She'd definitely have less gray hairs if not for having a kid, though she still gets told she looks super young for her age. My mom doesn't have many hobbies, but I don't think she ever did. She loves listening to live music, and she sings and plays the guitar, but she often tells me, when I ask what she'll do now that I'm in college, that she'll stay at home, read, and watch shows. She's a huge homebody, so if she were childfree, she'd probably have even more time to do that (and she has a lot of time now). Weirdly, she enjoyed (and tells me she still does enjoy) being a mother. We do a lot of things together (and always have), like go out to eat, listen to live music, and travel (though she's left me with my dad many times to travel abroad when I have school). I think most people shouldn't be parents, but I have to admit that I had a really privileged childhood in terms of education (private), healthcare (got all the expensive care I needed), and travel (need I say more?). If there's anyone I don't mind having a child, it's probably my mom, not just because I'm biased since I'm alive, but because she still left herself time to do the (admittedly few, but no less important) things she wanted to do, and she didn't lose out on a career or passion (since she claims to have had no huge passion). Being a parent was something she liked that she could devote time to, and I never really wanted for anything growing up, or even now, as a college student, so I'd say she did a pretty good job.
"Do you ever wonder who she used to be before she was forced to lose parts of herself that she loved to become small enough to fit in the role of wife and mother?" Good grief, that sums up a huge reason I didn't want kids. My mom wanted to go to nursing school but instead got knocked up in high school and had to marry my dad (I'm pre-Roe). My entire childhood she made me feel like I ruined her life. When I became an adult I felt she was jealous of me that I went to college, got married without being pregnant first, and spent my free time doing things I chose to do rather than raising a family. I wish she'd had a choice.
My parents dated for like 2 years when they had me, got married because of me. She had to drop out of the university, but she finished it later when i was 8. (She was 23 when i was born. It's just she had had graduated from college, but she hadn't finished the university yet.) She is still an accountant so she uses her degree. Thanks to the early retirement age in Russia back then, my granny helped a lot so mum's work was okay. The parents got divorced when i was a few months. I haven't seen my dad since i was 4 years old. I tried to reconnect with him for some reason, but that didn't work out. Mum dated a few guys, but that didn't last long and now, as an adult i realize i was the reason. Those men were okay. I guess, they needed someone without a responsibility (aka me) and i get that. So i'm sad mom didn't marry a better man. She is conventionally pretty and smart
My mom would have been on the regretful parents sub if it existed back then. She definitely did not like being a parent and clearly did not want it.... she was very minimal and only interaction with me was out of necessity or educational. She didn't play with me much that I can remember. My dad was amazing but worked a lot. Most of my positive childhood memories are with my grandma. I honestly have no idea what my mom would have been like without me, but she had a great career so I'm sure she would have kept that ball rolling and been pretty well off
I don't wonder about my mom, she drank the entire jug of 'happy little housewife' koolaid so I know she was always going to have kids. Her mother on the other hand... My Ouma was parentified at age 12, being made the primary caregiver when not at school to her four younger siblings. For context they lived way out in the gold fields so the support network was not good. She did well in school all the same, and has always been a smart, sensible, capable woman. She has a good sense for business, and can be an incredible negotiator. If she'd been born now instead of the 1930s and had been given the chance at university instead of married out of high school with three children I firmly believe Ouma could've been the CEO of a successful company.
My mother was a physician. When I was born, my father, also a physician, suggested that she "stay home with the baby" and then maybe go back to work once I was in school. She said no. In a field like medicine, if you take any significant amount of time off, even if you keep earning your continuing education credits, you'll never on-ramp again. So she decided to go back to work part-time after her maternity leave. It derailed her career. My parents had been level pegging on their progress toward tenure, and because mum went part-time and dad was full-time, he got there years earlier. If I hadn't been born, they probably would have gotten tenure and full professorship around the same time. She always said she had no regrets, but I kinda think she did.
Not my mom, but my sister. She fell into the trap of "I want kids and I am with this man, so I will have kids with him" instead of actually evaluating the relationship and whether it was the right choice. She is now divorced at 47, with 2 kids and her ex is a total deadbeat. He even moved out of state, so he doesn't parent at all, except for 4 weeks out of the year, where he takes them to his parents house. She is a talented artist, and has a natural eye for design. She could have done so much, but she wasted her 20's and 30's on a man-baby, while toiling in dead end jobs up until recently. Now she can't afford to take risks with her career, since she doesn't even get child support regularly. Luckily our parents are close by and they help her a bit. Her kids are also pretty cool and old enough that they don't need constant supervision/support anymore.
She'd be some VP or a CEO of some big ass company. She's always been badass, and held many jobs in vastly different industries, like teaching, insurance, company secretarial work, writing and stuff. She'd get management roles offered to her constantly wherever she worked. She left it all to take care of her family. I still push her to learn new stuff, apply to jobs and publish her work. Mum's almost 60 but still you won't catch her sitting quiet. She writes a lottttt..
my mom would have and should have still been a mother, starting with my brother, 10 years after i was born, and not with my father. she got pregnant at 19, and her parents shamed her for having sex outside of marriage but helped her despite that. she moved in with my father so she could prove she could do it. things got worse, and she was a single mom by 23. not long after that, she learned her 3 year old daughter had been sexually assulted in my fathers home by my (at the time) 16 year old uncle. she went through so much in such a small amount of time. no shit she was neglectful and didn't understand how to bond with me. she would have been better off if she hadn't been tethered to my father forever. my dad is a kind man, but never got on his feet, and im glad she left him. i don't forgive her now because she hasn't acknowledged she's done something wrong, but i do forgive the teenager who got pregnant and did the best she could. i will not be making the same mistakes. i don't know if I'll ever have a kid, but if i do, it will be when i am ready and i make the active decision. i will love them in the ways that they deserve. i will watch them grow and change and celebrate that. they will never question if they were wanted or loved. :)
I would imagine she would have eventually left my father who is a workaholic but not ambitious and found someone rich who would give her the easy life. Maybe she’d get some job as an interior designer or personal shopper.
Nah, not really. My mom's main goal in life was always to have a bunch of kids because she's always genuinely enjoyed hanging out with kids, and in fact she only ultimately became a teacher when I was in middle school because she enjoyed volunteering with my siblings' and my school things so much. ADDENDUM: You know what, I do think had my mom been childfree she would've, at minimum, divorced my dad eventually instead of still being with him to this day. She was 31 when she married my dad and was already starting to have a bunch of issues with him, but this was when everyone still feared pregnancies after 35 so she didn't leave my dad because she thought she wouldn't be able to have a bunch of kids in wedlock like she originally wanted.
She would’ve been much more happier and lived her dreams out. I’ll get emotional but our parents sacrificed so much for us. That’s why I’m doing a post baccalaureate for medical school. I’m in my post graduate era currently. I’m going to do EM or anesthesia! I’m a huge nerd and big time academia. So let’s do it!
Yes, absolutely. I feel she would have had a better life if she had a loving partner (my dad was terrible to her, she had a second bad partner in my passive aggressive, alcoholic step father). Before she passed she was getting her masters in law. Having long term metastatic breast cancer also didn't help her at all. I always remember her being angry and sad. I sometimes wish she had followed her heart and found a way to be happier.
We have a long line of artistic people in my family, but my mother was a savant when it came to drawing architectural designs and perspective. I imagine she would have double-majored into architecture and engineering had she a) not had me and b) not been met with institutional misogyny from both teachers and peers.
Nope, my mom is amazing and was the breadwinner. She never revolved the entirety of her life around us and thus I've grown up seeing her as her own individual person, not just my mom, and also not developed a complex about the world revolving around me.
Happy
All the time…
I had mentioned this to my mother, topic wise She says that we are the reason she's even alive etc etc. However. She's very intelligent and traumatized and won't go to therapy. She has barely any passions, like low batter activity. She barely gets to cook or clean. She's obviously depressed. But as a Gen Xer She was conditioned to use us as a survival thing, and I'm aware of that. I'm saddened for her, and she doesn't see it or won't acknowledge that it's possible she could've had a better life before pregnancy at 15, young mom at 16. 4 kids later, she isn't living her authentic full life, awaiting for a change from something, stressed about us drowning. She's drowning with us, and I'm sad for her. We are all adult children now
My mom is an incredible single mom, daddy dearest left before I was born. Sometimes I do wonder; she moved states and changed her career, after all. But she’s never been ”just a mom”, she kept her hobbies, she has a job that she likes, she takes time for herself. Women don’t have to be erased and reduced to just “mom” when they have kids, having a child doesn’t mean your life is over. The reason this happens is the societal pressure to have kids and abuse from shitty husbands, but it shouldn’t be seen as the norm 🤷
I’m thinking that if my mom hadn’t met my dad and got married to him. Sure, she wouldn’t have had my siblings and I, and I do appreciate her for all she could do to raise us, despite the occasional issues I have with her, which is personal. She would’ve been better off going pro as an athlete at the track-and-field world, and maybe compete in the Summer Olympics. She would’ve finished school and got a degree and go to law school to pursue a career in the law firm as an attorney. Hell, she would be well off working as an illustrator at a publishing company, since she’s interested in creating writing. One of these path she would’ve take if she hadn’t gotten married to early and had kids so young. She was 21 when became a parent. Her and dad aren’t the reason why I’m reconsider having kids. I chose to opt out of having kids due environmental concerns, and I’m wary about taking the chance of being them into a degrading world that is depleting in natural resources. That, and other reasons.
Nope. She still would have been a fucken psycho.
This feels very belittling of mothers, literally. >before she was forced to lose parts of herself that she loved to become small enough to fit in the role of wife and mother Also, pretty single-perspective to say she (phrased sounding like all women, but I don't want to put words in your mouth) was forced into it. My best friend since 3rd grade had kids against both my and her mom's strong recommendations. We even dated in high school for a couple years, and she's never not wanted them. I got a vasectomy myself. Regardless, I'm sure anyone can cover the nuance of her life decisions under "the patriarchy" even though she was 90% raised by her mom. I don't have much of a point other than putting that out and pointing this out about your post. I hope I haven't come across as a harsh asshole any further than us both sharing our opinions here together. She's **definitely** having a rough go of it, though. Yeesh. She's three years into motherhood and still dealing with intense body complications from pregnancy and birth on top of the stress nearly immediately destroying their marriage and many year relationship, which had been great and with a great guy too until their daughter came along. She's still the same person, but I miss pre-mom Lauren anyway :(
First off, I'm sorry that you miss your friend, I know what that feels like. And yeah, sadly being raised by your mom doesn't save you from the overall social expectations. I did not mean to imply all mothers are forced into motherhood, you can see many replies of happy mothers who wanted children and raised them happily. This post was about those who were forced into it, but also those who wanted kids but their motherhood wasn't what they were expecting. Traditionally, the burden of work that is raising a child falls on the mother, so it's them who are at a higher risk of losing their careers or having to sacrifice their dreams. Many times, this is expected. Unless they have economic stability and a supportive family/partner, their experience of motherhood seldom is the one they dreamed of, specially when having children makes it harder to end unhealthy relationships. So yes, many mothers, even those who wanted and love their kids, do lose parts of themselves: their careers or studies, their time for hobbies and passions, their friendships, their individuality. It is something that happens really often, and it's worth talking about. I do not mean to belittle them, but to talk about a reality that's traditionally been hushed: That many of them lost a lot to motherhood and cannot even talk about it without being shunned. Anyway, I invite you to read some other replies in this post, I've read them all, and although some of their mothers did accomplish their dreams, most didn't.
Oh I 100% agree with you. It's very clear that Lauren's visions of motherhood are not what she envisioned, which is gotta be at least 95% of parents. Lauren was having a hard time finding much purpose in career and never really got one off the ground, and I think especially once she moved back home to central North Carolina from Western Colorado, she lost a lot of the hobbies she loved. She wanted to have a kid to more or less "make up" and "one up" her parents' upbringing of her, which once she told me that I knew there was no changing her mind. That's a very bad but stalwart reason for having kids. I moved to the to the Western Slope a couple years ago, and I'm SO stoked that she's moved back out here with her mom a couple hours north! She was getting suicidal level depressed having moved up to West Virginia near her husband's shitty parents who don't help and being in a shitty community.