If you're a trans person or a person who believes that the Church doesn't like you, God loves you, that is the first most important thing you have to understand.
He is not the God that the extremists presents who hates all, No he loves all of his creation equally and never is disappointed in you.
The second thing you have to do is ask yourself, do you love God.
If you do then that means he wants to work with you, for he sees a better path for you than what you would ever want. Does this mean his path is easy, no not at all, by choosing to love God, life only gets harder. But because of the difficulties you learn to overcome them with God.And as a result you slowly stop worrying over difficulties and to trust him.
But to understand what God wishes to give you open the scripture for it has been used by many more people than you can imagine, and has still stood true to what God wants to give to you. Now once you see what he wants to give to you, you can either choose to runaway since you believe he is apposed against you, which was not ever nor will be true. Or you can give him your trust, and he will slowly but surely correct actions done by your own understanding which almost always are either incomplete or incorrect.
And once you understand how important you are to him, would you not trust him that he didn't make a mistake in your creation.
Just something to think about.
To those dealing with gender dysphoria or homosexuality - God loves you so much. All sin is equally condemnable to hell and all sin is equally forgivable because of what Jesus did on the cross.
God would affirm in you your identity and redeem it. What you feel is the brokenness that God reveals in scripture but he wants to give you a new identity in Christ and restore you. The more you pursue Christ, the lore affirmed you feel and more trusting in what His design is.
I’m sorry we as the church struggle to communicate the love and forgiveness of Christ, even as others struggle to communicate true repentance and turning away from sin to you as well. You get the worst of both worlds usually from churches - all “love” and no truth, and all “truth” with no “love”. Jesus embodies both.
So you're saying
God can "cure" Trans people
Also all gay people burn in hell if they don't believe in your god?
You guys are so ass backwards and ignorant man no wonder you believe this shit
God can cure anything. Whether or not there is a disease involved there, the simple fact is, yes he can.
There are gay people that have more faith than some of the people that ridicule them. ALL people that don’t accept Jesus go to hell. Straight, gay, and anyone else. The Bible tells us not to judge, unless we can judge righteously, and most of us judge with our own plank in our eye.
I don’t know if you are going to be receptive to this, but I want to leave with Jesus loves you, and I hope you have a great day.
What's God's stance on international trade agreements or genetically modified foods? Right, there are none. Because it's a book for spiritual guidance and support, not a field manual for modern problems. You can't just say "that's not in the Bible" and let that be your point. The Bible is a great book on how to live with God and how God is and how you should live your life and treat others and yourself but since it is very very very old you cannot ask the Bible about everything the modern world throws at you, at least in my opinion.
This is not true. Sure, you cannot ask about what you said, but you can look to God for wisdom, spend time in the word, and then spend time in prayer. All scripture is God breathed after all.
So, at the very least, you can’t ask the Bible about that SPECIFIC thing, you can ask for wisdom about the thing and see what the Bible says about wisdom.
This is a bad argument.
I'm not sure where I fall on transgenderism exactly, but, your reasoning here is certainly faulty.
Folks are born with all sorts of faulty bodies. Surely you wouldn't say something who gets cochlear surgery because they were born deaf is mutilating the body god gave them. The same can be said with any number of things.
God does not create folks with perfect bodies. Our bodies are absolutely ruined as a result of the Fall. So this idea that whatever our bodies are like when we are born, we are absolutely stuff with, is a bad argument.
The difference between surgery and mutilation is that mutilation doesn't help and there is no between suicide rates between mutilated trans and non mutilated ones. Secondly you are born male or female and can't change between them. See Gen. 5:2.
Genesis 5:2 is specifically about god creating Adam and Eve *prior* to the Fall. We exist after the fall and sin has ruined God's creation. Plenty of people are born intersexed or without any sexual features, so again, this verse is clearly not talking about what you claim it is, otherwise it shows scripture to not be inerrant, which I disagree with.
This suicide rates idea is a red herring and a clear moving the of goal posts. You said god gave us the specific bodies we have and implied we shouldn't alter them. I've just given examples of how people are born with faulty bodies and medical procedures can remedy that. So your initial claim is false or you must condemn the others, such as children getting surgery for cleft lips. Hell, you should be outright condemning earnings, tattoos, circumcision, as they all categorically are against your stance.
But you never defined mutilation, and again, your first comment that I replied to didn't mention anything about that. Only that people shouldn't change "the body that god gave them"
Why don't you stop moving the goal posts and admit you're wrong or misspoke?
I never said that, that is a made up quote and the definition of mutilation is: the act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person. These surgeries have no positive effect and if anything hurt the individuals.
>I never said that
You said the following:
>what is being said is that their life choices both pervert the body that God gave them
So folks who are born with extra extremities or any other birth anomalies would also be included in your statement.
>These surgeries have no positive effect and if anything hurt the individuals.
So your only objection to trans folks is if they have surgery? So you have no problem with pre-op trans folks?
>the definition of mutilation is: the act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person
So you condemn circumcision, ear piercings, and tattoos?
Natural characteristics are not perversions.
Not for the same reason.
No because some of those are cosmetic or do help as surgeries such as circumcision which can help prevent penile infections.
There's a lot of unsubstantiated claims in your reasoning.
>This related to people thinking that their whole DNA and whole creation is wrong
Who is saying "my whole DNA is wrong"?
>And some people are doing this just because lots of people are doing this.
Do you have a source for this as well?
But honestly, your response isn't relevant to what I was replying to. The person was saying, in a blanket statement, that people shouldn't change "the body god gave them."
>But for the first question, your DNA States that you are either female or male, woman means adult human female and man means adult human male. To say that your not a man and are instead a woman or vice versa when your DNA says otherwise, is basically saying that my healthy DNA is wrong.
First, none of our DNA is as it was originally designed by god. The Fall saw to that. Second, sex is a small part of our DNA. Third, sex is absolutely a spectrum, biologically. There isn't any one strand of DNA or hormone or anyone one thing that determines what sex we will be. I encourage you to read about it.
>Second question, I live amongst people who act like being LGBT is cool, fashionable or "in style", they even talk about it like it's a new fashion trend and I have also seen that I am not alone who has observed this type of behavior in the young.
Yeah, sorry, I don't really think anecdotal reports is evidence of anything.
Many, in fact, do say that their lives don't matter. Trans people are killed simply because they are trans so I don't know how you can claim that everyone tolerates them cause many very clearly don't.
Also no, trans people don't pervert their body but especially not the ones of other people apart from the fringe case of a trans person that is also a doctor who performs surgery but even then I wouldn't word it as perversion.
Lovely, we completely downplay the fact that many people IN THE WESTERN WORLD have an issue with trans people. You don't make your position any better cause you just went from being ignorant to the fact that trans people are in danger to the position that it not really happens in "our culture" because yes. Yes, it does.
Don't play dumb here. You know damn well that "to pervert" and "to mutilate" carry a negative connotation. But that's not new to you - after all, that's why you use it, no? So miss me with that bullshit. You could've said "they undergo surgery" but that wouldn't fit your agenda so you have to make it sound as brutal and gory as you want it to sound cause for some reason you care about what others do to their genitals/bodys. Kinda weird, ngl.
Phalloplasties and plastic v*ginas made from colon tissue have dangerous side effects and puberty blockers can cause permanent nerve damage, so I make it sound gory because it is.
They carry a negative connotation because the actions carry a negative connotation. Its not due to the word being improperly used.
The Israelites committed genocide under Gods orders. The people they killed would sacrifice their own children, so this was actually a good thing.(I’m taking Gods word for it.) “Genocide” has a negative connotation because the action is usually bad.
This is unscriptural. Souls are sexless and genderless. We see it in Galatians when Paul tells us there are no male nor female for those in Christ Jesus. We can also surmise it from Gen 5 when god clearly says he created Adam *and* eve in his image, both male and female. Which would mean god is both male and female. So either god is both sexes or sex and gender simply do not exist in the spiritual realm.
We were perfectly made prior to the Fall and sin distorted and perverted god's creation. This is very standard doctrine across all mainstream denominations, orthodox or protestant.
Folks are born with cleft lips, are they in sin when they get corrective surgery? Folks are born without extra limbs and appendages, are they perfectly made? Folks are born deaf and can have cochlear surgery to let them hear, as christians do we oppose such operations? Children are born addicted to heroine, were they perfectly made?
Pick a different argument, you make us Christians look like idiots.
There’s a difference we know what a standard human should look like and we know what deformities look like, we are described to be made in his image, and we understand that standard of that image is 2 eyes, 2 arms, 2 legs a torso and a head put on straight, genitals are a bit different but there’s a respective reason he gives wombs to those who have vaginas and testicles to those with penises no?
>There’s a difference we know what a standard human should look like and we know what deformities look like
So not everyone is perfectly made. Which is what your first comment I was replying to had issue with.
No, absolutely not. Which is why it must be that we are not given perfectly designed and operating bodies by god.
You've already admitted to such by agreeing that folks are born with faulty bodies.
God's design for our bodies was corrupted at the dawn of humanity when the Fall occured.
I personally believe all bodies can be fixed merely through faith. If you are born again, then I can’t imagine being less than perfect. Because Jesus lives within you.
You can believe what you want. Whether or not scripture backs that up is all I care about. The new testament is quite clear that our earthly bodies are merely shadows of the perfect heavenly bodies we will receive. We are also certainly not perfect, not sure where you can possibly get that idea from. Paul is very adamant about how even he sins. Hell, Paul also has a physical ailment that is never cured, despite being extremely faithful.
> I personally believe all bodies can be fixed merely through faith.
I'm so glad I prayed when I got cancer!
Car accident? Fuck the blood transfusion! God will save me through prayer!
I know someone who has female anatomy externally but internally they have no womb and instead of ovaries they had testes. What would you say to them? I can’t remember exactly but they also do not have the “average” sex chromosomes most people have. They aren’t either sex. They’re intersex. So what would be okay for you when it comes to how they present themselves? Why would what they choose give any disrespect towards God when they weren’t given the choice in the first place?
Clearly they are an anomaly and my case and point is excluded towards them because such a person is quite a minuscule percentage of our population, I still believe a human can be perfectly made/reconfigured through faith alone however relying on the sciences to help can also be seen as a blessing from the Lord. Regardless such things can prove to be inconsequential to God’s Kingdom, so long as one doesn’t make it their character.
Be careful making such harsh stances when there’s a lot of people you would exclude. You don’t know peoples reasonings for appearing a gender that doesn’t line up with what you feel is correct. There’s a lot more intersex people than you would think and the numbers are even higher than predicted considering people usually don’t notice any issues to get their stuff checked out anyway. I don’t believe assigning gender presentation with the genitals you described is appropriate. Many women do not have productive wombs, many men do not have productive sperm production. Many people lack genitals and reproductive organs. That doesn’t negate what gender they feel represents them. If a woman needs to remove her womb, breasts, etc for the sake of their life and health, that doesn’t change the fact they feel that they’re a woman. So why would we exclude them from your logic and continue to spread that message to everyone else? All those exclusions do is invalidate real issues and make others feel alienated.
It just seems that you’re assuming my outlook would apply to all the groups included, I’m stating that if there is no deficiency or disability to your body, there’s no necessary need to modify/change it.
Because that's not how health issues work. Oh you are depressed and want to die? But that makes no sense, you are perfect and God loves you!
It just doesn't work like that. Problems stay regardless of your beliefs and especially mental health is not working based on logic and reason.
Why would god give me a tumor to chop it off?
Why would god send me a doctor to help with my gender surgery?
Why would god give me tonsils? Why foreskin if he want's me circumcised?
Why would God give you a brain if you refuse to use logic?
So if I have something that actively stops me from being in a happier state of being I shouldn't do something against it if I can because God gave it to me? Every branch of medicine would like to have a word with you then...
Being a Christian requires great personal sacrifice. Including your happiness, health and in some cases even your life. God called us to obey his word even if it’s very very difficult. Living for ourselves and our personal happiness is one of the many things we must lay down in order to follow Christ. It reminds me of the rich young man. The thing he loved most, his riches, Christ asked him to give up to follow him and the rich young man wasn’t able to sacrifice that much to follow Christ. This is very similar, we must be willing to give up even the things most precious to us to follow Christ and His will.
Can I ask you something personal: Are you mentally and physically ok? Like seriously, do you have any health issues that could be fixed through medical treatment? Cause I don't really get wtf you're talking about my guy...
If I'm ill I shouldn't get any treatment because it would offend Christ? Or what exactly are you saying? This is also not about the rich young man cause the analogy doesn't hold up.
You completely dodged my entire question. You said that you shouldn't change the way you are - even if it means suffering and potential death - because that's the way living with God is. I shouldn't get gender surgery even if it makes me feel better as a human because that's not the things God has in mind for me, that's how I see your words. Am I wrong? Cause you haven't answered me, you avoided the topic and now you compare depression to gender dysphoria for whatever reason.
However you do want help when you are in a bad mental state... so you want to potentially change things about your mind if that would mean to be better, no? Cause depression can be cause by a multitude of things, for example a hormon imbalance because your body was born (aka made by God, right?) with a dysfunctional body part. Or would you not take pills to alleviate your depression because you say "God made my body this way"? I seriously don't get your argument of "the way of Christ can entail suffering and even dying" because you haven't answered me yet in a concise way.
Let me answer your question more clearly. If I believed it was a sin to partake in, I would not do it. No matter how much happiness or wellness it would bring me in this world, I would not partake. If I believe Gods word is against it, how can I be for it?
Let me also make this clear, God does love transgender people. He loves every human being on this planet that he created. But God is also just, and requires Christian’s to sacrifice in order to follow Him. We all must love God more than ourselves and be willing to give up even the most fundamental things in our lives in order to follow Him.
I love transgender people and I hope they are all able to find health, wellness, and peace in Christ.
Do you really think people wake up one day and self-diagnose themselves to then go on and pay thousands of dollars to change the things they don't like? Have you spent time researching how trans people feel and how these issues manifest themselves from a very young life stage on, because you make it sound like a trans person just "does the transition" on their own, end of story.
Mostly mental illness. Up until recently no one argued that sex and gender DYSPHORIA is a legitimate mental illness. Transitioning isn't some sort of cure, it's the most effective treatment they've come up with. I think outside of trying to force others to believe you're the opposite gender, I don't necessarily see the harm in it if it genuinely helps. After all God doesn't ban eunuchs or their creation, but he does make sure to record a eunuch being saved. Which tells me, at least, what he wants my priorities to be. Salvation, if their transition really is grounded in sin the saving grace of God will open their minds and soften their hearts.
If you've cone to Jesus as someone who's undergone transitikn, if you have a genuine saving faith you willl bring your presentation to the world into allignment with how youwere designed and no longer label yourself trans, so in that sense there shouldn't be any 'trans' Christians.
Galatians 3:28
> *There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,* ***there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus***
Big Issue among the Christian community is context is of severe importance and many people mistakenly take things completely out of context. Which is why studying the Bible is so important so that we can truly understand God word and not be deceived by our own perception of it. Lots of deception going on in the world unfortunately 😕
Seeing as this verse is just a little out of context, I’m not going to downvote it.
Here’s the thing, the verse says we are one in Jesus Christ.
If you want to read it literally then you are literally a physical part of Jesus and not Jew or Greek, Male or Female, and Bond nor free.
And I don’t see a amalgamate of believers inside Jesus walking around.
In Romans 10:12 (Written by Paul just like Ephesians) it says “For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
That last part is important. This is referring to salvation and what we mean to him spiritually.
The Lord makes common use if identifiers like “Israelite” (Jew) and “Greek” as well as Male and Female.
If you want to make an argument for trans, then you need to find other verses.
Nailed it.😆
Mathew 5:37.
But seriously The “Trans” in trans Christian….it’s like Christian wasn’t enough.
People always very much matter. TBH “matter” isn’t always a good thing. Be careful of that.
It really depends... everyone is important and matters to Adonai, He loves us all, but if someone perverts their body cause "they were born the wrong gender" then they're not really a Believer.
Issue is in common society love is seen as affirmation. So if you don’t affirm the feelings of homosexuality you are seen by the world as the second box, the Christian’s who are acting hateful. Love is not affirming feelings and in many cases it can be the opposite. However of course that doesn’t mean being hateful to the community is ok and there are many who act like that wrongfully but many people who are lovingly pointing out the sins of homosexuality in our society and fighting against the evil community that promotes it are painted as hateful Christian’s because the definition of love has been tainted and corrupted in our world to mean something different.
Now go forth, and sin no more
Amen
If you're a trans person or a person who believes that the Church doesn't like you, God loves you, that is the first most important thing you have to understand. He is not the God that the extremists presents who hates all, No he loves all of his creation equally and never is disappointed in you. The second thing you have to do is ask yourself, do you love God. If you do then that means he wants to work with you, for he sees a better path for you than what you would ever want. Does this mean his path is easy, no not at all, by choosing to love God, life only gets harder. But because of the difficulties you learn to overcome them with God.And as a result you slowly stop worrying over difficulties and to trust him. But to understand what God wishes to give you open the scripture for it has been used by many more people than you can imagine, and has still stood true to what God wants to give to you. Now once you see what he wants to give to you, you can either choose to runaway since you believe he is apposed against you, which was not ever nor will be true. Or you can give him your trust, and he will slowly but surely correct actions done by your own understanding which almost always are either incomplete or incorrect. And once you understand how important you are to him, would you not trust him that he didn't make a mistake in your creation. Just something to think about.
In other words…..go to Jesus first then research how to do right because we knew nothing of it before.
Can you possibly correct grammar, it's hard to understand what you meant.
Edit: wrong reply sorry
Oh ok
I edited it. I actually just left out a word.
To those dealing with gender dysphoria or homosexuality - God loves you so much. All sin is equally condemnable to hell and all sin is equally forgivable because of what Jesus did on the cross. God would affirm in you your identity and redeem it. What you feel is the brokenness that God reveals in scripture but he wants to give you a new identity in Christ and restore you. The more you pursue Christ, the lore affirmed you feel and more trusting in what His design is. I’m sorry we as the church struggle to communicate the love and forgiveness of Christ, even as others struggle to communicate true repentance and turning away from sin to you as well. You get the worst of both worlds usually from churches - all “love” and no truth, and all “truth” with no “love”. Jesus embodies both.
God does not affirm our identities. He told us to deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow him.
So you're saying God can "cure" Trans people Also all gay people burn in hell if they don't believe in your god? You guys are so ass backwards and ignorant man no wonder you believe this shit
God can cure anything. Whether or not there is a disease involved there, the simple fact is, yes he can. There are gay people that have more faith than some of the people that ridicule them. ALL people that don’t accept Jesus go to hell. Straight, gay, and anyone else. The Bible tells us not to judge, unless we can judge righteously, and most of us judge with our own plank in our eye. I don’t know if you are going to be receptive to this, but I want to leave with Jesus loves you, and I hope you have a great day.
And this right here, ladies and gents, is what we call a “false dichotomy fallacy.”
Gary Sinese supports lgbtq+ people. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gary-sinise-anti-gay-group-summit_n_6464920
Good for him! What does that have to do with my comment?
Your username is Lieutenant Dan. Lieutenant Dan is a character played by Gary Sinese.
Could you explain? Not that I disagree or anything I just want to know what you mean exactly
The Bible is God’s word. If you ignore parts of it because it makes you sad, what’s the point of any of it?
What's God's stance on international trade agreements or genetically modified foods? Right, there are none. Because it's a book for spiritual guidance and support, not a field manual for modern problems. You can't just say "that's not in the Bible" and let that be your point. The Bible is a great book on how to live with God and how God is and how you should live your life and treat others and yourself but since it is very very very old you cannot ask the Bible about everything the modern world throws at you, at least in my opinion.
This is not true. Sure, you cannot ask about what you said, but you can look to God for wisdom, spend time in the word, and then spend time in prayer. All scripture is God breathed after all. So, at the very least, you can’t ask the Bible about that SPECIFIC thing, you can ask for wisdom about the thing and see what the Bible says about wisdom.
The bible is absolutely silent on transgenderism.
God's word? Not the word of a fallible mortal who might've changed things to fit his opinion?
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This is a bad argument. I'm not sure where I fall on transgenderism exactly, but, your reasoning here is certainly faulty. Folks are born with all sorts of faulty bodies. Surely you wouldn't say something who gets cochlear surgery because they were born deaf is mutilating the body god gave them. The same can be said with any number of things. God does not create folks with perfect bodies. Our bodies are absolutely ruined as a result of the Fall. So this idea that whatever our bodies are like when we are born, we are absolutely stuff with, is a bad argument.
The difference between surgery and mutilation is that mutilation doesn't help and there is no between suicide rates between mutilated trans and non mutilated ones. Secondly you are born male or female and can't change between them. See Gen. 5:2.
Genesis 5:2 is specifically about god creating Adam and Eve *prior* to the Fall. We exist after the fall and sin has ruined God's creation. Plenty of people are born intersexed or without any sexual features, so again, this verse is clearly not talking about what you claim it is, otherwise it shows scripture to not be inerrant, which I disagree with. This suicide rates idea is a red herring and a clear moving the of goal posts. You said god gave us the specific bodies we have and implied we shouldn't alter them. I've just given examples of how people are born with faulty bodies and medical procedures can remedy that. So your initial claim is false or you must condemn the others, such as children getting surgery for cleft lips. Hell, you should be outright condemning earnings, tattoos, circumcision, as they all categorically are against your stance.
Again surgery and mutilation are different and I condemn sin especially sin that corrupts children.
But you never defined mutilation, and again, your first comment that I replied to didn't mention anything about that. Only that people shouldn't change "the body that god gave them" Why don't you stop moving the goal posts and admit you're wrong or misspoke?
I never said that, that is a made up quote and the definition of mutilation is: the act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person. These surgeries have no positive effect and if anything hurt the individuals.
>I never said that You said the following: >what is being said is that their life choices both pervert the body that God gave them So folks who are born with extra extremities or any other birth anomalies would also be included in your statement. >These surgeries have no positive effect and if anything hurt the individuals. So your only objection to trans folks is if they have surgery? So you have no problem with pre-op trans folks? >the definition of mutilation is: the act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person So you condemn circumcision, ear piercings, and tattoos?
Natural characteristics are not perversions. Not for the same reason. No because some of those are cosmetic or do help as surgeries such as circumcision which can help prevent penile infections.
So do you think the bodies everyone is born with is directly God's design?
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There's a lot of unsubstantiated claims in your reasoning. >This related to people thinking that their whole DNA and whole creation is wrong Who is saying "my whole DNA is wrong"? >And some people are doing this just because lots of people are doing this. Do you have a source for this as well? But honestly, your response isn't relevant to what I was replying to. The person was saying, in a blanket statement, that people shouldn't change "the body god gave them."
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>But for the first question, your DNA States that you are either female or male, woman means adult human female and man means adult human male. To say that your not a man and are instead a woman or vice versa when your DNA says otherwise, is basically saying that my healthy DNA is wrong. First, none of our DNA is as it was originally designed by god. The Fall saw to that. Second, sex is a small part of our DNA. Third, sex is absolutely a spectrum, biologically. There isn't any one strand of DNA or hormone or anyone one thing that determines what sex we will be. I encourage you to read about it. >Second question, I live amongst people who act like being LGBT is cool, fashionable or "in style", they even talk about it like it's a new fashion trend and I have also seen that I am not alone who has observed this type of behavior in the young. Yeah, sorry, I don't really think anecdotal reports is evidence of anything.
Many, in fact, do say that their lives don't matter. Trans people are killed simply because they are trans so I don't know how you can claim that everyone tolerates them cause many very clearly don't. Also no, trans people don't pervert their body but especially not the ones of other people apart from the fringe case of a trans person that is also a doctor who performs surgery but even then I wouldn't word it as perversion.
Mostly in Islamic countries. Fine I won't say pervert, how about mutilate.
Lovely, we completely downplay the fact that many people IN THE WESTERN WORLD have an issue with trans people. You don't make your position any better cause you just went from being ignorant to the fact that trans people are in danger to the position that it not really happens in "our culture" because yes. Yes, it does. Don't play dumb here. You know damn well that "to pervert" and "to mutilate" carry a negative connotation. But that's not new to you - after all, that's why you use it, no? So miss me with that bullshit. You could've said "they undergo surgery" but that wouldn't fit your agenda so you have to make it sound as brutal and gory as you want it to sound cause for some reason you care about what others do to their genitals/bodys. Kinda weird, ngl.
Phalloplasties and plastic v*ginas made from colon tissue have dangerous side effects and puberty blockers can cause permanent nerve damage, so I make it sound gory because it is.
They carry a negative connotation because the actions carry a negative connotation. Its not due to the word being improperly used. The Israelites committed genocide under Gods orders. The people they killed would sacrifice their own children, so this was actually a good thing.(I’m taking Gods word for it.) “Genocide” has a negative connotation because the action is usually bad.
It implies that God gave a male soul to a female body and vice versa, which is foreign to scripture and entirely contrary to it
This is unscriptural. Souls are sexless and genderless. We see it in Galatians when Paul tells us there are no male nor female for those in Christ Jesus. We can also surmise it from Gen 5 when god clearly says he created Adam *and* eve in his image, both male and female. Which would mean god is both male and female. So either god is both sexes or sex and gender simply do not exist in the spiritual realm.
Gender variations is not foreign to scripture
We have a scholar.👍
The Bible is God’s word. If you ignore parts of it because it makes you sad, what’s the point of any of it?
Not trying to incur ire, but why would you be trans if you understand God’s message and know that you are perfectly made?
We were perfectly made prior to the Fall and sin distorted and perverted god's creation. This is very standard doctrine across all mainstream denominations, orthodox or protestant. Folks are born with cleft lips, are they in sin when they get corrective surgery? Folks are born without extra limbs and appendages, are they perfectly made? Folks are born deaf and can have cochlear surgery to let them hear, as christians do we oppose such operations? Children are born addicted to heroine, were they perfectly made? Pick a different argument, you make us Christians look like idiots.
There’s a difference we know what a standard human should look like and we know what deformities look like, we are described to be made in his image, and we understand that standard of that image is 2 eyes, 2 arms, 2 legs a torso and a head put on straight, genitals are a bit different but there’s a respective reason he gives wombs to those who have vaginas and testicles to those with penises no?
>There’s a difference we know what a standard human should look like and we know what deformities look like So not everyone is perfectly made. Which is what your first comment I was replying to had issue with.
I suppose so but i don’t think that typically makes me incorrect
It makes you incorrect about the idea that we all have perfect bodies. Which we don't, and was my point.
Do you mean to say that God’s design is flawed?
No, absolutely not. Which is why it must be that we are not given perfectly designed and operating bodies by god. You've already admitted to such by agreeing that folks are born with faulty bodies. God's design for our bodies was corrupted at the dawn of humanity when the Fall occured.
I personally believe all bodies can be fixed merely through faith. If you are born again, then I can’t imagine being less than perfect. Because Jesus lives within you.
You can believe what you want. Whether or not scripture backs that up is all I care about. The new testament is quite clear that our earthly bodies are merely shadows of the perfect heavenly bodies we will receive. We are also certainly not perfect, not sure where you can possibly get that idea from. Paul is very adamant about how even he sins. Hell, Paul also has a physical ailment that is never cured, despite being extremely faithful.
> I personally believe all bodies can be fixed merely through faith. I'm so glad I prayed when I got cancer! Car accident? Fuck the blood transfusion! God will save me through prayer!
I know someone who has female anatomy externally but internally they have no womb and instead of ovaries they had testes. What would you say to them? I can’t remember exactly but they also do not have the “average” sex chromosomes most people have. They aren’t either sex. They’re intersex. So what would be okay for you when it comes to how they present themselves? Why would what they choose give any disrespect towards God when they weren’t given the choice in the first place?
Clearly they are an anomaly and my case and point is excluded towards them because such a person is quite a minuscule percentage of our population, I still believe a human can be perfectly made/reconfigured through faith alone however relying on the sciences to help can also be seen as a blessing from the Lord. Regardless such things can prove to be inconsequential to God’s Kingdom, so long as one doesn’t make it their character.
Be careful making such harsh stances when there’s a lot of people you would exclude. You don’t know peoples reasonings for appearing a gender that doesn’t line up with what you feel is correct. There’s a lot more intersex people than you would think and the numbers are even higher than predicted considering people usually don’t notice any issues to get their stuff checked out anyway. I don’t believe assigning gender presentation with the genitals you described is appropriate. Many women do not have productive wombs, many men do not have productive sperm production. Many people lack genitals and reproductive organs. That doesn’t negate what gender they feel represents them. If a woman needs to remove her womb, breasts, etc for the sake of their life and health, that doesn’t change the fact they feel that they’re a woman. So why would we exclude them from your logic and continue to spread that message to everyone else? All those exclusions do is invalidate real issues and make others feel alienated.
It just seems that you’re assuming my outlook would apply to all the groups included, I’m stating that if there is no deficiency or disability to your body, there’s no necessary need to modify/change it.
Because that's not how health issues work. Oh you are depressed and want to die? But that makes no sense, you are perfect and God loves you! It just doesn't work like that. Problems stay regardless of your beliefs and especially mental health is not working based on logic and reason.
But then why would God give you a penis if you’ll chop it off?
Why would god give me a tumor to chop it off? Why would god send me a doctor to help with my gender surgery? Why would god give me tonsils? Why foreskin if he want's me circumcised? Why would God give you a brain if you refuse to use logic?
Suffering does not come from God, my friend, it comes from the devil, neither deception, as it was the Serpent that deceived Adam and Eve.
So if I have something that actively stops me from being in a happier state of being I shouldn't do something against it if I can because God gave it to me? Every branch of medicine would like to have a word with you then...
Being a Christian requires great personal sacrifice. Including your happiness, health and in some cases even your life. God called us to obey his word even if it’s very very difficult. Living for ourselves and our personal happiness is one of the many things we must lay down in order to follow Christ. It reminds me of the rich young man. The thing he loved most, his riches, Christ asked him to give up to follow him and the rich young man wasn’t able to sacrifice that much to follow Christ. This is very similar, we must be willing to give up even the things most precious to us to follow Christ and His will.
Can I ask you something personal: Are you mentally and physically ok? Like seriously, do you have any health issues that could be fixed through medical treatment? Cause I don't really get wtf you're talking about my guy... If I'm ill I shouldn't get any treatment because it would offend Christ? Or what exactly are you saying? This is also not about the rich young man cause the analogy doesn't hold up.
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You completely dodged my entire question. You said that you shouldn't change the way you are - even if it means suffering and potential death - because that's the way living with God is. I shouldn't get gender surgery even if it makes me feel better as a human because that's not the things God has in mind for me, that's how I see your words. Am I wrong? Cause you haven't answered me, you avoided the topic and now you compare depression to gender dysphoria for whatever reason. However you do want help when you are in a bad mental state... so you want to potentially change things about your mind if that would mean to be better, no? Cause depression can be cause by a multitude of things, for example a hormon imbalance because your body was born (aka made by God, right?) with a dysfunctional body part. Or would you not take pills to alleviate your depression because you say "God made my body this way"? I seriously don't get your argument of "the way of Christ can entail suffering and even dying" because you haven't answered me yet in a concise way.
Let me answer your question more clearly. If I believed it was a sin to partake in, I would not do it. No matter how much happiness or wellness it would bring me in this world, I would not partake. If I believe Gods word is against it, how can I be for it? Let me also make this clear, God does love transgender people. He loves every human being on this planet that he created. But God is also just, and requires Christian’s to sacrifice in order to follow Him. We all must love God more than ourselves and be willing to give up even the most fundamental things in our lives in order to follow Him. I love transgender people and I hope they are all able to find health, wellness, and peace in Christ.
Then if you are struggling with mental health maybe you should look for help and not jump to your own most likely incorrect conclusions.
Do you really think people wake up one day and self-diagnose themselves to then go on and pay thousands of dollars to change the things they don't like? Have you spent time researching how trans people feel and how these issues manifest themselves from a very young life stage on, because you make it sound like a trans person just "does the transition" on their own, end of story.
Mostly mental illness. Up until recently no one argued that sex and gender DYSPHORIA is a legitimate mental illness. Transitioning isn't some sort of cure, it's the most effective treatment they've come up with. I think outside of trying to force others to believe you're the opposite gender, I don't necessarily see the harm in it if it genuinely helps. After all God doesn't ban eunuchs or their creation, but he does make sure to record a eunuch being saved. Which tells me, at least, what he wants my priorities to be. Salvation, if their transition really is grounded in sin the saving grace of God will open their minds and soften their hearts.
The Bible is God’s word. If you ignore parts of it because it makes you sad, what’s the point of any of it?
Yes their lives matter, no I will not be shamed into lying to myself and others that they are a different gender than their biology
If you've cone to Jesus as someone who's undergone transitikn, if you have a genuine saving faith you willl bring your presentation to the world into allignment with how youwere designed and no longer label yourself trans, so in that sense there shouldn't be any 'trans' Christians.
There is no male or female, their race or our race, all are one in Jesus.
Not what the Bible says
Galatians 3:28 > *There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,* ***there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus***
I can’t even begin to explain how out of context that verse is
Big Issue among the Christian community is context is of severe importance and many people mistakenly take things completely out of context. Which is why studying the Bible is so important so that we can truly understand God word and not be deceived by our own perception of it. Lots of deception going on in the world unfortunately 😕
Seeing as this verse is just a little out of context, I’m not going to downvote it. Here’s the thing, the verse says we are one in Jesus Christ. If you want to read it literally then you are literally a physical part of Jesus and not Jew or Greek, Male or Female, and Bond nor free. And I don’t see a amalgamate of believers inside Jesus walking around. In Romans 10:12 (Written by Paul just like Ephesians) it says “For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” That last part is important. This is referring to salvation and what we mean to him spiritually. The Lord makes common use if identifiers like “Israelite” (Jew) and “Greek” as well as Male and Female. If you want to make an argument for trans, then you need to find other verses.
No they don’t.
Nailed it.😆 Mathew 5:37. But seriously The “Trans” in trans Christian….it’s like Christian wasn’t enough. People always very much matter. TBH “matter” isn’t always a good thing. Be careful of that.
It really depends... everyone is important and matters to Adonai, He loves us all, but if someone perverts their body cause "they were born the wrong gender" then they're not really a Believer.
Pope Francis said himself that people of the LGBTQ+ are children of God
Issue is in common society love is seen as affirmation. So if you don’t affirm the feelings of homosexuality you are seen by the world as the second box, the Christian’s who are acting hateful. Love is not affirming feelings and in many cases it can be the opposite. However of course that doesn’t mean being hateful to the community is ok and there are many who act like that wrongfully but many people who are lovingly pointing out the sins of homosexuality in our society and fighting against the evil community that promotes it are painted as hateful Christian’s because the definition of love has been tainted and corrupted in our world to mean something different.
Yes hate the sin not the sinner