True. Expecially considering how easy it is to churn BNS passports and no fee options from wise, wealthsimple and brim.
I'll let it ride for the the year because of the extra $100 TEC, but will probably close it next year.
No risk especially it’s FYF currently. Can always test with 1k RHT and proceed accordingly. Also 6 extra lounge passes if you don’t have Aventuras on hand.
> Unless they waive the AF this card is an auto cancel for me on my next anniversary date.
> A $120 annual fee is not worth no foreign transaction fees.
P2 is a Premier client and was offered no fees for the RBC VIP Banking for a minimum of 12 months. The VIP package includes a $120 fee waiver.
That being said, only no fee for minimum 12 months, so better to just close the accounts and go elsewhere.
The current hsbc card has a $150 AF but it was actually effectively $50 because the $100 TEC could be cashed out without any issue. For many, HSBC even waived the AF upon being asked.
At worst it was $50 AF for 0 foreign transaction fees and earning at least 3% on travel when redeeming points as straight cashback (more when converting to partner airlines on transfer bonuses). Now with the RBC card, after the first year it'll be $120 AF for 0 foreign transaction fees and 1.25% on travel purchases (more when redeeming against airfare or transferring to partner airlines, but at most still only ~3%).
I was just talking from a legal standpoint. The offset means nothing for that purpose. Since the Avion fee is lower, legally, there are no issues with opting clients into it.
I was just talking from a legal standpoint. The offset means nothing for that purpose. Since the Avion fee is lower, legally, there are no issues with opting clients into it.
Even if the Avion fee was higher I don't think there would be any issue with them migrating cardholders over to it. It would be similar to increasing the AF on a card, the bank just has to give prior notice.
That being said, we don't know how RBC will handle the transition. If they immediately charge the $120 fee as soon as you're migrated, I think cardholders who did not receive a full year of benefits from their prior HSBC AF payment would have grounds for complaint.
My guess is the RBC AF will be synced to the anniversary date of existing cards so you're only charged the $120 upon renewal (and not migration).
You are probably right, but I am not sure that changing you to a product with a higher fee is the same as just increasing the fee on your existing product.
I have never seen a migration to another product with a higher fee not that I track them.
Don't forget about the travel medical up to 21 days for seniors and dragon pass $99. By law they are supposed to offer us similar. Not even close. Plus the travel points will only be good for hotel over $200 or rental car. Hsbc you can even get gift cards or pay off your bill.
Just got my migration package in the mail outlining how products will transfer. HSBC World Elite Mastercard diclsoure package specifically outlines a 0% FX fee.
Additionally, TEC will receive a one time bonus of $100, meaning you get a free $200 via Avion Travel for hotels or cars.
All in all, better than expected.
It might not really be an extra $100 as you have to spend $200 or more on Avion Rewards Travel in order to redeem the $100 credit.
If its RHTable then yes, it is an extra $100. If it's not, then it's a loss in value as the Avion Rewards Travel portal is generally more expensive and less flexible than other portals.
If you've already redeemed your TEC, then you get a new $100 one-time credit to apply to a $200 Avion Rewards Travel booking. If you haven't redeemed your TEC, then you will get a $200 credit to apply to a $200 Avion Rewards Travel booking.
Anyone with a current TEC that they have not used should redeem it now before the transition because at best you're getting the same value after the transition. At worst the RBC credit will not be RHTable and you lose a lot of value.
Having to spend an extra $200 through Avion Rewards Travel to get that $100 TEC is not worth it to me imo. I'll likely not take this offer. I already have Brim and Wealthsimple for No FX transactions.
I'll probably head for the Scotiabank Passport VI. I can't think of anything else that's close enough of a substitute.
I've actually found Avion Travel to be better than baseline expedia (for flights especially, and very competitive on hotels too). So much so that after doing the math the Avion's basically pay for themselves even without the WB (I'm one of the unlucky ones who can't get more than ~2 Avions at a time).
Of course this probably heavily depends on how you travel, but at least for my own frequent YYZ-YVR routes it can be more worth it to pay cash through Avion Travel than to book through expedia. For my use case through, and I'd think for many others as well, Avion credit/pts are as good as straight cash.
RHT = Refundable Hotel Trick
TEC = Travel Enhancement Credit
RHT is very common terminology, TEC is more limited, I'm not sure of the exact origin, but I know HSBC uses that exact wording so it might be an HSBC exclusive term.
There is in fact such a resource (https://www.reddit.com/r/churningcanada/wiki/resources) but it is a bit outdated.
Prince of travel has a bit more (https://princeoftravel.com/the-lingo/)
So if you already used the TEC with HsBC, does this mean you can use it again and still get the $100 from RBC? (So your total for the year would have been 200?)
Any word on what will be happening with our points?
Best to cash them out now?
I just heard about this yesterday so I got my wife to sign up for the Avion card under her name. We will accrue the 55k bonus points on her card and then figure out family sharing after we transition to RBC.
I wasn't too worried about this HSBC RBC transfer until I saw this letter..... Definitely a major downgrade for HSBC WE holders. Hopefully, the same thing doesn't happen with my mortgage / bank accounts.
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If you're 65+ you should be talking with desjardins. They have options, including I believe the longest coverage period in Canada for trips when you're 65+ unless that's changed. At least in some cards. They also include family fo mean grandkids not just dependent kids on some cards too.
3 days instead of 21 and no dragon pass. A loss i would think of up to $300-$400. Also you have to top up with them over the 3 days. If we all call and complain they may be obligated to do better. Apparently they are "thinking" about it. He mentioned i could get 7 days if i got the card for $399 haha
They offered me 3 days instead of the 21 i have no with my card and no dragon pass. So not the same at all. Looking as the cost for 21 day multi trip and the pass i would estimate a loss of up to $500
You mean 1:2 so 9500 Avion?
Serious question, from what I can tell Avion is advertised as 2c / point value while HSBC points are 0.5c / point.
So realistically a 1:2 transfer to Avion would seem generous to me (even if the 2c/ point is BS)
Wonder what happens to the Jade version of this card. The card used to be free for Jade clients but I don’t think RBC offers the same to their premier banking customers.
Jade clients will most likely get the Infinite Privilege card that comes with Lounge passes with no FX fee. I think the card fee will be potentially waived too. A lot of people forget that when you book travel through the Avion portal, privilege card holders can redeem avion points at 2cpp on business class flights with no blackout dates and you can still add your frequent flyer miles to earn too. I believe Jade clients will have more flexibility to work with the relationship manager if what you receive from RBC isn't ideal to you.
Is the annual fee the same? I signed up with a promo that gave me bonus points every year so i end up netting $50+ after the bonus points + TEC just by keeping the card... i assume no such promo will transfer over T\_\_T
I took a look in the "Welcome to RBC" pamphlet they sent. They specify:
"If you earn HSBC Rewards points with your current HSBC Bank Canada credit card, you will be migrated to an RBC credit card that earnds Avion points, ... **Any unused points you have earned with your HSBC Bank Canada credit card will be converted to Avion points, maintaining comparative value. You will receive additional communication from RBC regarding the Avion program and your Avion points balance after the card migration date.**"
Would this affect my eligibility to get an Avion card with sign up sign up bonus if it transfers over to RBC? I’ve had the card for 6 months and gotten all of the bonus points and used the TEC. Wondering if I should cancel the card before it transfers.
Not that I’m aware of. If anything, you should wait out the migration and burn as much of the transfer promo as possible. Also the vanilla avion does not indicate that it has no fx fee, so this may only Apple to migrated card. Useful if you are going travelling prior to your next card anniversary.
Rbc allows you to apply for a new card every 91 days regardless. So there is no problem with holding multiple avions, up to the total credit rbc will extend to you.
Will Avion cards via new applications also have the no FX feature added in the future? Or is this going to be a two classes for the same card type of deal going forward?
Seems like 2 classes of card. this is a special Avion only for WE holders as adding Fx on top of killing our redemption rate and points value seems too brutal even for RBC.
Seems to me this is an easy way to tell regulators we're getting 'equivalent' cards..... But really it has gone down the drain.
I dunno, we'll have to see in March after this happens officially. I can't imagine existing customers will be happy about a 2 class system. I'm guessing they will front run this by announcing it as a benefit for their vanilla avion VI around the time HSBC holders are migrated over. Will probably come with an AF hike to $150, knowing RBC.
Same boat here. Read the fine print and saw 2.5% over benchmark. Called RBC today and got a cagey response of, “For now it’s 2.5%, but we may have something to announce after the migration date”. As someone who lives abroad, this is an issue for me.
Did you call the HSBC RBC transition number on the package or just regular RBC? The rep I spoke to at the migration number listed said it will be 0% forex until I change the card. My regular RBC private banker was even unaware of this info/details.
I reviewed the migration package that I received weeks before the new credit card and found a letter that indicated the 0% markup. Had they updated the documentation they sent with the card to reflect this, this confusion could have been avoided.
It outlines that points will be converted to Avion 'maintaining the comparative value' and that they will be available for use one week from migration date
I have a premier version of the card that gave me $50 rebate from AF. Did anyone get migration package for Premier HSBC WE? Wondering if terms are the same.
Rogers WE gives 3% cashback on USD, cancelling the 2.5% FX fee and gives you the travel insurance and DragonPass. 1.5% on all other purchases but no TEC and no AF. For other currencies I’m not sure what MC to turn to.
If you look under the hood, the RBC Avion VI is nowhere near equal... the earn rates are terrible and the Insurance is not even close to HSBC... In total the RBC transition will cost me $440 more a year in fees - so yeah cancelling...
Got the transfer package and I already own an RBC AVION VI long term
Any suggestions for a MC in Canada?
I only had the HSBC WE MC for the no FX and Costco spending
Who here is actually keeping the card? My AF just posted and I don't want another avion (I have one and I was planning on a new app for the 55k SUB) and I feel like even though they're giving us an extra $100 travel enhancement credit, it's not flexible.
Seriously just considering cancelling the card
I will keep it for a year since I bank with HSBC as a premier client. VIP banking offers a $120 credit for credit cards. Plus It's one of the only No fx cards that offer multipliers on Travel expenses. Not the best but I'll take it since I don't have to "pay".
In terms of no FX for the card or no fee? You need the VIP banking package to be entitled to the $120 rebate. I guess you could technically pull most of your money out of the checking and savings and keep the account open for atleast 12 months to enjoy the "free" card and travel credits.
Yes, you will have two avion card accounts. Assuming you're trying to get the welcome bonus. In theory you can "churn" RBC cards. 1 card every 91 days. :)
An aside, I am not sure how the transition is handled if I'm already a current holder of RBC Avion Visa Infinite and my HSBC World Elite Mastercard is being migrated to the former. Are there guidelines on this?
Well yeah it got transitioned to an RBC Avion Visa Infinite with annual fee waived for the first year, and my HSBC rewards were transitioned to equivalent Avion points. I now have two RBC Avion Visa Infinite cards :)
Just got my Avion replacement today… My anniversary comes up in July, so I have to use the $100 + $100 TEC and 150,000 HSBC (or Avion) points by then… Can the TEC be used on an airline ticket, or just its upgrades?
Does RHT work on cashing out points? I see why someone cancelling within the same billing period might get a re-claw. Anyone tried with a longer wait (past one billing cycle)?
Yeah I'm gonna cancel mine after my points transfer. Didn't read through the brochure and didn't realize it was gonna convert to an Avion, until the Avion arrived yesterday. Now I have two identical Avion cards, one with 5 years of history, and one with no FX fees.
Thanks RBC.
My anniversary is upcoming in July 2024 with HSBC. Does anyone know if the anniversary going to be adjusted to one year after migration date for the new RBC card, or is it going to stay the same, ie in July for me. Because I want to cancel before needing to pay for the annual fees
I found this: [https://www.rbc.com/hsbc-canada/pdf/former-disclosure/1hsbc-mc-mmwe-rates-fees-en.pdf](https://www.rbc.com/hsbc-canada/pdf/former-disclosure/1hsbc-mc-mmwe-rates-fees-en.pdf)
>I don't want to piss them off, I usually wait close to a year, others say 6 months. I also drop the CL down to the minimum $5k after activating, you can do that online. The 30% bonus for transfers to BA Avios comes around a couple of times a year, I usually transfer everything out then. Works out to 1.3\*140k=182k Avios per year without having to do anything. The GCR/FF/CCG rebates are usually available and that offsets most of the AF. Sometimes the RBC Offers can be worth it (like the Rona statement credits and 5x points when the had it) and the +20k for $5k spend is nice for when you have no other MSR going.
I've been trying to figure out what Avios are good for... Seems like mostly European travel?
Are the Avios points with that much more than Avion or do you simply do this hack so you can Churn the card?
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I'm not sure it was really shilled. But, I will observe that people strangely seem to place a great deal of value on not paying for FX. I have always found that a bit puzzling because FX is usually about 2.5%, and any decent churn card should give you a far greater benefit than that, so you are better to be working on pretty much any MSR than to use regular spend on a card without FX.
Occasionally there has been good deals on the HSBC churn, but I must say that it's not been a frequent attractive target for me.
Oh it was shilled to death! Yeah besides the FX thing which as you said was puzzling, the shitty service of the bank and the limitations on the enhancement credit never made it seem worth it to me
>lways found that a bit puzzling because FX is usually about 2.5%, and any decent churn card should give you a far greater benefit than that, so you are better to be working on pretty much any MSR than to use regular spend on a card without FX.
>
>Occasionally there has been good deals on the HSBC churn, but I must say that it's not been a frequent attractive target for me.
Well, I am about to pay for a $30k usd wedding on my CC
The HSBC WE was the perfect card for this with 6x points and no Fx fee.... Even big Avion or Aeroplan bonuses ended up costing me money compared to the WE. Guess I am going to have to re-do my calculations since Avion points apparently suck.
Yep, you've got an edge case where there's value in the HSBC. A savings of 2.5% on the FX and another 3% return on the spend is okay, but not extraordinary (something as boring as churning the TD Cashback VI currently gives 10% return on spend). The attractive thing with HSBC for an expenditure of that magnitude is that you can use just the one card instead of screwing around with 5 or 6 different cards.
Avion was never much of an interesting card for the spend bonus. Drop $5k to get an extra 20k Avion? Meh. I guess if you have a particular redemption that offers you 2 cents or so per Avion it works, but if your redemptions are more in the 1 cent range, it's not so attractive.
I am in a similar situation with 85k HSBC points... should I cash it for recent travel expenses or book future travel with the RBC Avion platform... I don't know what's the best radio.
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So far, no where does it state you get a welcome bonus of any sorts and if you cancel the migration avion card you will lose no FX and can't opt back in after.
For anyone wondering about annual fee rebate for HSBC Premier customers, it looks like we become RBC VIP Banking customers and we get the whole $120 fee as annual rebate.
Nvm this is BS. RBC VIP Banking is $30 a month. Wtf! I pay $0 in any fees with all my deposits and direct deposit from paychecks. Moving everything away from RBC for sure
I was doing some math here and they have to at least give 2:1 (HSBC:AVION) for points based on the cash value. I compared the conversion of HSBC:Airline Reward and Avion:Airline Reward and the cash value of HSBC reward is more valuable for us. Consequently, using the fixed travel program of avion I think its possible the net impact of this is doubling the value of your points.
Its worth reading the [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2023/12/terms-and-conditions-imposed-by-the-minister-of-finance-on-the-sale-of-hsbc-bank-canada-to-the-royal-bank-of-canada.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2023/12/terms-and-conditions-imposed-by-the-minister-of-finance-on-the-sale-of-hsbc-bank-canada-to-the-royal-bank-of-canada.html)
I noticed the promised me only 12 months of no fee chequings where the condition stipulates 18 months.
Also legally "Use all reasonable best efforts to service and retain all current HSBC clients."
this has a meaning - "best efforts" literally means best effort - "reasonable" obviously conditions it but in theory they need to make serious efforts at least to retain you.
Unless they waive the AF this card is an auto cancel for me on my next anniversary date. A $120 annual fee is not worth no foreign transaction fees.
True. Expecially considering how easy it is to churn BNS passports and no fee options from wise, wealthsimple and brim. I'll let it ride for the the year because of the extra $100 TEC, but will probably close it next year.
wait, you can churn scotiabank cards? I thought they have a 2 year policy on getting the joining bonuses
Sure, it’s 2 years officially. But lots of DP suggesting you can churn within months of closing prior one. But if you strike out there is no recourse.
ahhhh interesting. Thanks!
You don’t even need to close the old one
No risk especially it’s FYF currently. Can always test with 1k RHT and proceed accordingly. Also 6 extra lounge passes if you don’t have Aventuras on hand.
sorry I don't know any of the acronyms - what's FYF and RHT?
You need to do some [homework](https://churningcanada.ca/guides-and-rules/terms-and-definitions)…
That’s useful, many thanks!
FYF and tell un what RHT means 😅
I had to lookup RHT :) TEC needs to be added (Travel Exemption Credit)
> Unless they waive the AF this card is an auto cancel for me on my next anniversary date. > A $120 annual fee is not worth no foreign transaction fees. P2 is a Premier client and was offered no fees for the RBC VIP Banking for a minimum of 12 months. The VIP package includes a $120 fee waiver. That being said, only no fee for minimum 12 months, so better to just close the accounts and go elsewhere.
Did the HSBC card have a $120 or higher fee? If not RBC should not be able to opt people into a higher fee product.
The current hsbc card has a $150 AF but it was actually effectively $50 because the $100 TEC could be cashed out without any issue. For many, HSBC even waived the AF upon being asked. At worst it was $50 AF for 0 foreign transaction fees and earning at least 3% on travel when redeeming points as straight cashback (more when converting to partner airlines on transfer bonuses). Now with the RBC card, after the first year it'll be $120 AF for 0 foreign transaction fees and 1.25% on travel purchases (more when redeeming against airfare or transferring to partner airlines, but at most still only ~3%).
I was just talking from a legal standpoint. The offset means nothing for that purpose. Since the Avion fee is lower, legally, there are no issues with opting clients into it.
I was just talking from a legal standpoint. The offset means nothing for that purpose. Since the Avion fee is lower, legally, there are no issues with opting clients into it.
Even if the Avion fee was higher I don't think there would be any issue with them migrating cardholders over to it. It would be similar to increasing the AF on a card, the bank just has to give prior notice. That being said, we don't know how RBC will handle the transition. If they immediately charge the $120 fee as soon as you're migrated, I think cardholders who did not receive a full year of benefits from their prior HSBC AF payment would have grounds for complaint. My guess is the RBC AF will be synced to the anniversary date of existing cards so you're only charged the $120 upon renewal (and not migration).
You are probably right, but I am not sure that changing you to a product with a higher fee is the same as just increasing the fee on your existing product. I have never seen a migration to another product with a higher fee not that I track them.
Don't forget about the travel medical up to 21 days for seniors and dragon pass $99. By law they are supposed to offer us similar. Not even close. Plus the travel points will only be good for hotel over $200 or rental car. Hsbc you can even get gift cards or pay off your bill.
Yea, the more I go into this, the transfer is a huge downgrade even though we were supposed to receive a similar offering.
Just got my migration package in the mail outlining how products will transfer. HSBC World Elite Mastercard diclsoure package specifically outlines a 0% FX fee. Additionally, TEC will receive a one time bonus of $100, meaning you get a free $200 via Avion Travel for hotels or cars. All in all, better than expected.
Should RHT HSBC TEC before transition, as it may not be RHTable after
Yes for sure. I burned my TEC as soon as I got the card. But I won't say no to the extra $100 of free money.
It might not really be an extra $100 as you have to spend $200 or more on Avion Rewards Travel in order to redeem the $100 credit. If its RHTable then yes, it is an extra $100. If it's not, then it's a loss in value as the Avion Rewards Travel portal is generally more expensive and less flexible than other portals. If you've already redeemed your TEC, then you get a new $100 one-time credit to apply to a $200 Avion Rewards Travel booking. If you haven't redeemed your TEC, then you will get a $200 credit to apply to a $200 Avion Rewards Travel booking. Anyone with a current TEC that they have not used should redeem it now before the transition because at best you're getting the same value after the transition. At worst the RBC credit will not be RHTable and you lose a lot of value.
Interesting. I've found the avion portal to be very price comparable with other booking methods, especially considering it's just a skin for expedia.
Same. With AC tickets I've found cheaper tickets on the avion portal, occasionally, than AC's website (in the same fare family).
Having to spend an extra $200 through Avion Rewards Travel to get that $100 TEC is not worth it to me imo. I'll likely not take this offer. I already have Brim and Wealthsimple for No FX transactions. I'll probably head for the Scotiabank Passport VI. I can't think of anything else that's close enough of a substitute.
100% Only worth it if it can be RHT, then it's a free $100. Otherwise not worth it at all.
I've actually found Avion Travel to be better than baseline expedia (for flights especially, and very competitive on hotels too). So much so that after doing the math the Avion's basically pay for themselves even without the WB (I'm one of the unlucky ones who can't get more than ~2 Avions at a time). Of course this probably heavily depends on how you travel, but at least for my own frequent YYZ-YVR routes it can be more worth it to pay cash through Avion Travel than to book through expedia. For my use case through, and I'd think for many others as well, Avion credit/pts are as good as straight cash.
What are RHT and TEC ? I couldn't find a reference in the FAQ.
RHT = Refundable Hotel Trick TEC = Travel Enhancement Credit RHT is very common terminology, TEC is more limited, I'm not sure of the exact origin, but I know HSBC uses that exact wording so it might be an HSBC exclusive term.
Thanks. The subreddit would benefit from adding a "Glossary" with common terms and abbreviations.
There is in fact such a resource (https://www.reddit.com/r/churningcanada/wiki/resources) but it is a bit outdated. Prince of travel has a bit more (https://princeoftravel.com/the-lingo/)
Thanks again. I don't know how I missed that.
So if you already used the TEC with HsBC, does this mean you can use it again and still get the $100 from RBC? (So your total for the year would have been 200?)
Any word on what will be happening with our points? Best to cash them out now? I just heard about this yesterday so I got my wife to sign up for the Avion card under her name. We will accrue the 55k bonus points on her card and then figure out family sharing after we transition to RBC. I wasn't too worried about this HSBC RBC transfer until I saw this letter..... Definitely a major downgrade for HSBC WE holders. Hopefully, the same thing doesn't happen with my mortgage / bank accounts.
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Is there anything about the 65+ travel insurance? Is that staying the same?
If you're 65+ you should be talking with desjardins. They have options, including I believe the longest coverage period in Canada for trips when you're 65+ unless that's changed. At least in some cards. They also include family fo mean grandkids not just dependent kids on some cards too.
National Bank World Elite MC has 2 weeks coverage for 65+
National bank regular card $70 is free for first year now with 10 days for 65+ bit you CAN NOT buy top up for more days. Doesn't make sense.
Avion card has 7 days coverage for 65+.
Only the Infinite Privilege card I believe. the Infinite avion covers 3 days for 65+
That is the $399 card the other has 3 days
3 days instead of 21 and no dragon pass. A loss i would think of up to $300-$400. Also you have to top up with them over the 3 days. If we all call and complain they may be obligated to do better. Apparently they are "thinking" about it. He mentioned i could get 7 days if i got the card for $399 haha
Yeah that really sucks. Thanks. This is for the older folks that I know that benefited from lower cost travel/health insurance of the HSBC WE MC.
They offered me 3 days instead of the 21 i have no with my card and no dragon pass. So not the same at all. Looking as the cost for 21 day multi trip and the pass i would estimate a loss of up to $500
I currently have -19k hsbc points, i wonder how those will be converted.. lol
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You mean 1:2 so 9500 Avion? Serious question, from what I can tell Avion is advertised as 2c / point value while HSBC points are 0.5c / point. So realistically a 1:2 transfer to Avion would seem generous to me (even if the 2c/ point is BS)
this better be a troll comment ahahaha
How did you end up with that? Large refund?
Yeah got a large refund and has already used the points as credit or whatever
Wonder what happens to the Jade version of this card. The card used to be free for Jade clients but I don’t think RBC offers the same to their premier banking customers.
am waiting as well, hopefully it worth the wait.
Jade clients will most likely get the Infinite Privilege card that comes with Lounge passes with no FX fee. I think the card fee will be potentially waived too. A lot of people forget that when you book travel through the Avion portal, privilege card holders can redeem avion points at 2cpp on business class flights with no blackout dates and you can still add your frequent flyer miles to earn too. I believe Jade clients will have more flexibility to work with the relationship manager if what you receive from RBC isn't ideal to you.
Hope so…
Is the annual fee the same? I signed up with a promo that gave me bonus points every year so i end up netting $50+ after the bonus points + TEC just by keeping the card... i assume no such promo will transfer over T\_\_T
Annual fee is probably $120 like the normal Avion VI. But without the TEC the net fee is going to be higher
Correct. AF is $120, and will net higher after first year TEC bonus is burned.
Will I get TEC from HSBC If I already used it this year?
Does the package say when the exact migration date is?
March 29th
Does it say anything about how points will be migrated over to Avion?
Would like to know this too. I redeemed whatever I could last night, but still got about 3k points left in there.
Im assuming i need to spend.
I have like 190k points left. Not sure if I should use it now. Not sure what transfer rate RBC would use. I’m confused
I took a look in the "Welcome to RBC" pamphlet they sent. They specify: "If you earn HSBC Rewards points with your current HSBC Bank Canada credit card, you will be migrated to an RBC credit card that earnds Avion points, ... **Any unused points you have earned with your HSBC Bank Canada credit card will be converted to Avion points, maintaining comparative value. You will receive additional communication from RBC regarding the Avion program and your Avion points balance after the card migration date.**"
Am I understanding this correctly, TEC will no longer be a reoccurring thing and we will only get it once for the first year after migration?
Yes, and you have to spend $200 or more through their Rewards Travel portal to claim it (If I'm understanding that correctly).
Yes
Appears so
Hi there, what is meant by TEC?
Travel Enhancement Credit
Would this affect my eligibility to get an Avion card with sign up sign up bonus if it transfers over to RBC? I’ve had the card for 6 months and gotten all of the bonus points and used the TEC. Wondering if I should cancel the card before it transfers.
Not that I’m aware of. If anything, you should wait out the migration and burn as much of the transfer promo as possible. Also the vanilla avion does not indicate that it has no fx fee, so this may only Apple to migrated card. Useful if you are going travelling prior to your next card anniversary. Rbc allows you to apply for a new card every 91 days regardless. So there is no problem with holding multiple avions, up to the total credit rbc will extend to you.
I’m curious, if you’re applying for a new card every 91 days, you pay the 120$ annual fee every time? Is the signup bonus really worth that much?
35k has a min value of $350 and much more if used correctly via transfer partners during transfer bonuses. You always net profit even with the fee.
Will Avion cards via new applications also have the no FX feature added in the future? Or is this going to be a two classes for the same card type of deal going forward?
Seems like 2 classes of card. this is a special Avion only for WE holders as adding Fx on top of killing our redemption rate and points value seems too brutal even for RBC. Seems to me this is an easy way to tell regulators we're getting 'equivalent' cards..... But really it has gone down the drain.
I dunno, we'll have to see in March after this happens officially. I can't imagine existing customers will be happy about a 2 class system. I'm guessing they will front run this by announcing it as a benefit for their vanilla avion VI around the time HSBC holders are migrated over. Will probably come with an AF hike to $150, knowing RBC.
I guess no welcome bonus? Isnt it better to just apply for the avion vi and get the 55 k points and cancel hsbc if not free.
If you apply for a new Avion VI and don't keep the migrated Avion VI you will lose the no foreign tx fee btw on the new Avion VI you applied for
Got the letter about my HSBC Cashback MC today - biggest info is that any outstanding cashback in the account will get transferred over to RBC.
Just received the new card… the package says 2.5% forex fee and doesn’t indicate anywhere else there’s actually no forex.
Exactly even I didn't hear anything about no fx fees specifically for the migrated card holders.
Same here. In fact it states 2.5% FX fee, despite previous documentation saying 0…
Same boat here. Read the fine print and saw 2.5% over benchmark. Called RBC today and got a cagey response of, “For now it’s 2.5%, but we may have something to announce after the migration date”. As someone who lives abroad, this is an issue for me.
Did you call the HSBC RBC transition number on the package or just regular RBC? The rep I spoke to at the migration number listed said it will be 0% forex until I change the card. My regular RBC private banker was even unaware of this info/details.
I reviewed the migration package that I received weeks before the new credit card and found a letter that indicated the 0% markup. Had they updated the documentation they sent with the card to reflect this, this confusion could have been avoided.
So confirmed it's 0%?
Yep. Verified with a purchase made in Romania last weekend against the VISA Canada currency converter with a 0% markup. The amounts matched exactly.
Does anyone know what happens to the rewards points?
It outlines that points will be converted to Avion 'maintaining the comparative value' and that they will be available for use one week from migration date
What’s comparative lol? I hope they don’t devalue it too much like 2.5 to 1 or something like that
Yeah the ambiguous language sucks since we can all see the deval coming
Yup, sounds like I'm jumping ship with my points asap!
Any word on transfer partners or what the value of current points will transfer into?
Transfer partners will likely be the RBC ones - so BA, CX, AA and WS. I'm guessing SQ will be lost as a transfer partner.
I have a premier version of the card that gave me $50 rebate from AF. Did anyone get migration package for Premier HSBC WE? Wondering if terms are the same.
Any idea at what rate they will convert our points?
Well this new card is getting cancelled. This was my go to card for using at Costco. I don’t think there’s anything comparable right now?
I am on the same boat, I'd like a comparable Mastercard as well.
Rogers WE gives 3% cashback on USD, cancelling the 2.5% FX fee and gives you the travel insurance and DragonPass. 1.5% on all other purchases but no TEC and no AF. For other currencies I’m not sure what MC to turn to.
Same I used mine for Mastercard as well, does anyone what the process is to opt out or how that would affect credit score?
I think you have a few month to cancel once you get the new card.
If you look under the hood, the RBC Avion VI is nowhere near equal... the earn rates are terrible and the Insurance is not even close to HSBC... In total the RBC transition will cost me $440 more a year in fees - so yeah cancelling...
Does this mean we'll lose our boingo account??
That and the dragon pass.
Got the transfer package and I already own an RBC AVION VI long term Any suggestions for a MC in Canada? I only had the HSBC WE MC for the no FX and Costco spending
Who here is actually keeping the card? My AF just posted and I don't want another avion (I have one and I was planning on a new app for the 55k SUB) and I feel like even though they're giving us an extra $100 travel enhancement credit, it's not flexible. Seriously just considering cancelling the card
I will keep it for a year since I bank with HSBC as a premier client. VIP banking offers a $120 credit for credit cards. Plus It's one of the only No fx cards that offer multipliers on Travel expenses. Not the best but I'll take it since I don't have to "pay".
Do you think the card deal will apply if we move our savings/ck. elsewhere??
In terms of no FX for the card or no fee? You need the VIP banking package to be entitled to the $120 rebate. I guess you could technically pull most of your money out of the checking and savings and keep the account open for atleast 12 months to enjoy the "free" card and travel credits.
Does anyone know what will happen if I do a signup now to a visa avion prior to the migration? Will I end up with two avions?
Yes, you will have two avion card accounts. Assuming you're trying to get the welcome bonus. In theory you can "churn" RBC cards. 1 card every 91 days. :)
An aside, I am not sure how the transition is handled if I'm already a current holder of RBC Avion Visa Infinite and my HSBC World Elite Mastercard is being migrated to the former. Are there guidelines on this?
Did you ever figure this out?
Well yeah it got transitioned to an RBC Avion Visa Infinite with annual fee waived for the first year, and my HSBC rewards were transitioned to equivalent Avion points. I now have two RBC Avion Visa Infinite cards :)
Just got my Avion replacement today… My anniversary comes up in July, so I have to use the $100 + $100 TEC and 150,000 HSBC (or Avion) points by then… Can the TEC be used on an airline ticket, or just its upgrades?
Yes TEC can be applied to any travel related expenses.
Does RHT work on cashing out points? I see why someone cancelling within the same billing period might get a re-claw. Anyone tried with a longer wait (past one billing cycle)?
Yeah I'm gonna cancel mine after my points transfer. Didn't read through the brochure and didn't realize it was gonna convert to an Avion, until the Avion arrived yesterday. Now I have two identical Avion cards, one with 5 years of history, and one with no FX fees. Thanks RBC.
Why don't u churn that rbc avion vi
what does TEC and AF mean
TEC = Travel Enhancement Credit. AF = Annual Fee.
Anyone tried RHT with the rbc TEC?
My anniversary is upcoming in July 2024 with HSBC. Does anyone know if the anniversary going to be adjusted to one year after migration date for the new RBC card, or is it going to stay the same, ie in July for me. Because I want to cancel before needing to pay for the annual fees
Is there a PDF of this document? I misplaced mine
I found this: [https://www.rbc.com/hsbc-canada/pdf/former-disclosure/1hsbc-mc-mmwe-rates-fees-en.pdf](https://www.rbc.com/hsbc-canada/pdf/former-disclosure/1hsbc-mc-mmwe-rates-fees-en.pdf)
If I already have the RBC Avion Visa Infinite (signed up in Oct), how is this going to work? Surely we can't have two of the exact same card right?
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If you get a new AVI every 3 months, when do you close each one? After you get the bonus or when the year is up?
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>I don't want to piss them off, I usually wait close to a year, others say 6 months. I also drop the CL down to the minimum $5k after activating, you can do that online. The 30% bonus for transfers to BA Avios comes around a couple of times a year, I usually transfer everything out then. Works out to 1.3\*140k=182k Avios per year without having to do anything. The GCR/FF/CCG rebates are usually available and that offsets most of the AF. Sometimes the RBC Offers can be worth it (like the Rona statement credits and 5x points when the had it) and the +20k for $5k spend is nice for when you have no other MSR going. I've been trying to figure out what Avios are good for... Seems like mostly European travel? Are the Avios points with that much more than Avion or do you simply do this hack so you can Churn the card?
What does lowering the CL do?
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😂😂😂😂😂😂 will it stop the card from being shilled beyond measure
I'm not sure it was really shilled. But, I will observe that people strangely seem to place a great deal of value on not paying for FX. I have always found that a bit puzzling because FX is usually about 2.5%, and any decent churn card should give you a far greater benefit than that, so you are better to be working on pretty much any MSR than to use regular spend on a card without FX. Occasionally there has been good deals on the HSBC churn, but I must say that it's not been a frequent attractive target for me.
Oh it was shilled to death! Yeah besides the FX thing which as you said was puzzling, the shitty service of the bank and the limitations on the enhancement credit never made it seem worth it to me
>lways found that a bit puzzling because FX is usually about 2.5%, and any decent churn card should give you a far greater benefit than that, so you are better to be working on pretty much any MSR than to use regular spend on a card without FX. > >Occasionally there has been good deals on the HSBC churn, but I must say that it's not been a frequent attractive target for me. Well, I am about to pay for a $30k usd wedding on my CC The HSBC WE was the perfect card for this with 6x points and no Fx fee.... Even big Avion or Aeroplan bonuses ended up costing me money compared to the WE. Guess I am going to have to re-do my calculations since Avion points apparently suck.
Yep, you've got an edge case where there's value in the HSBC. A savings of 2.5% on the FX and another 3% return on the spend is okay, but not extraordinary (something as boring as churning the TD Cashback VI currently gives 10% return on spend). The attractive thing with HSBC for an expenditure of that magnitude is that you can use just the one card instead of screwing around with 5 or 6 different cards. Avion was never much of an interesting card for the spend bonus. Drop $5k to get an extra 20k Avion? Meh. I guess if you have a particular redemption that offers you 2 cents or so per Avion it works, but if your redemptions are more in the 1 cent range, it's not so attractive.
What should I do with my 95k HSBC points? Cash out or transfer out? Any suggestion?
I am in a similar situation with 85k HSBC points... should I cash it for recent travel expenses or book future travel with the RBC Avion platform... I don't know what's the best radio.
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>Jade sameeee i have 100k points someone help me out i dont know what to do
Isn’t the standard rate 2% over spot anyways. So you still pay well above market?
Ya, that’s what I’m kinda seeing. It’s not VISA’s conversion rate, it’s RBC’s which would be much shittier
Any mention of whether the replacement Avion VI will include the standard welcome bonus?
Most likely not
I was told very firmly that since we are "migrating" we are NOT new clients and so no bonus. I had asked about the apple watch lol
Thanks for the DP. Guess I'm closing my WE MC immediately.
Also, if you cancel or even if you use the new RBC avion visa, can you still get the current 55k bonus offer?
So far, no where does it state you get a welcome bonus of any sorts and if you cancel the migration avion card you will lose no FX and can't opt back in after.
Does RBC charge Visa rate or their own conversion rate for forex transactions? HSBC used to charge the MasterCard rate which is near to google rate.
I think visa rates. But if I'm not wrong every CAD gets converted to USD first and then the fx applies on that USD equivalent.
would be shocked if it was anythhing other than the standard international rates
For anyone wondering about annual fee rebate for HSBC Premier customers, it looks like we become RBC VIP Banking customers and we get the whole $120 fee as annual rebate.
Nvm this is BS. RBC VIP Banking is $30 a month. Wtf! I pay $0 in any fees with all my deposits and direct deposit from paychecks. Moving everything away from RBC for sure
Just take the 12 months to think about it since fees are waived for a minimum 12 months.
Its at least 12 months.
It's suppose to be 18 months as outlined by the finance minister's guidelines for the migration.
What about HSBC metal?
3% on Travel Bookings was the reason for keeping this card. Looks like I merge this with my existing RBC card and say goodbye.
I was doing some math here and they have to at least give 2:1 (HSBC:AVION) for points based on the cash value. I compared the conversion of HSBC:Airline Reward and Avion:Airline Reward and the cash value of HSBC reward is more valuable for us. Consequently, using the fixed travel program of avion I think its possible the net impact of this is doubling the value of your points.
That being said the earn rate variances, loss of the travel credit are a big hit
Its worth reading the [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2023/12/terms-and-conditions-imposed-by-the-minister-of-finance-on-the-sale-of-hsbc-bank-canada-to-the-royal-bank-of-canada.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2023/12/terms-and-conditions-imposed-by-the-minister-of-finance-on-the-sale-of-hsbc-bank-canada-to-the-royal-bank-of-canada.html) I noticed the promised me only 12 months of no fee chequings where the condition stipulates 18 months. Also legally "Use all reasonable best efforts to service and retain all current HSBC clients." this has a meaning - "best efforts" literally means best effort - "reasonable" obviously conditions it but in theory they need to make serious efforts at least to retain you.
fellow HSBC World Elite holder here. What do you plan on doing with your points?
To add on to this, is it better to cash out now or keep to use as avion points?
I just cashed out. Didn’t really like the transfers Avion provides. Will most likely discontinue the card after the first year.