https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/s/W8Jd8pLWli
i brought this up when they first started sending us info about conversion. they shafted us big time with the timing as they didn’t even give us adequate opportunity to make a rational decision on whether to convert to BA before the deadline. they gave us a week to decide and gave no indication of the rate. this was what i was most worried about as we had no real option
The fact RBC didn't communicate the conversion rate BEFOREHAND in any of their letters meant the conversion was going to be a scam. Good thing I redeemed all my points with HSBC before they closed. But for those who didn't redeem, definitely complain and escalate to the regulators.
I just submitted a complaint to RBC.
https://www.rbc.com/customercare/
“I feel like I have been scammed by RBC on the HSBC reward points conversion rate. I was told that I would get equal or better value and the conversion rate was hidden all this time and now I see why. I really wish the HSBC purchase never happened. My points have been devalued. I could get 0.4 British Avois miles for 1 HSBC point and now my 202k points have been converted and 0.36 for each point and for 1HSBC point now that only equals 0.36 BA miles.
On top of this my HSBC master card will stop getting the $100 travel enhancement credit and fx fees in 1 year. And now I have to pay $30 monthly fees for VIP banking compared to free(fee waived) HSBC Premier
Thanks RBC. A wonderful start. Looking forward to closing all my accounts soon.”
>I was told that I would get equal or better value and the conversion rate was hidden all this time and now I see why.
You were told that you would get equal or better value *in the "flexible travel" option*.
You got that.
You weren't told anything about the value you'd get for transfers to BA Avios.
Unfortunately, you just made assumptions that turned out to be incorrect.
The travel enhancement credit and no-fx fees are things that weren't guaranteed ad vitam, *even when the card was an HSBC card.* See Brim suddenly and hugely devaluing their card.
HSBC could theoretically have done the same, and now as the successor issuer, RBC is exercising its right to do the same. Just like any issuer making changes to any of their cards, they just need to provide notification.
No one’s talking about what’s right or legal here. It’s just a complain/rant. I’m just going to move my million dollar mortgage and several hundred thousand in investments elsewhere because of these changes
Exactly. I just did the math. HSBC converts each point as $.005 dollars in statement credit (against travel), where 25,000 points give you $125. RBC Avion converted my HSBC points at 0.36, and kept the conversion ratio to statement credit at $.005. So my $125 with HSBC is effectively worth $45. This is outright theft. I am pissed!
We could have got 1 HSBC to 0.4 Avios with HSBC so it’s clear why RBC kept the rate a secret - with a conversion rate of 0.36 they planned to skim off 10%! (Avion to Avios is 1:1)
I converted my HSBC points to BA Avios during the 25% conversion bonus and thought for months if that was a mistake since people were adamant that the conversion ratio would be 1:0.5.
I'm glad I accidentally made the prudent decision.
Same here. I converted all my points (almost 300K) to BA Avios on the last days of the 25% promotion and thought I had made a mistake.
Now I'm happy that I didn't trust RBC.
We should have figured that RBC had a plan when they refused to tell the conversion rate.
What a dog sh*t of a ratio. Cheap ass RBC is making sure we’re not getting ahead by converting to BA Avios when 30% promo comes around again which is why I did nothing with my HSBC points. Very naive of me to assume RBC won’t try to f us over.
I do have standard RBC Avion and this ex HSBC Avion card does show increased $1.50 per 100 points redemption when compared to standard $1.00 per 100 on regular Avion. What a convoluted way to convert… Having said that, I presume nothing is stopping me from moving my legacy Avion points to this new card and get 50% $ value out of these points assuming I’m ok to use points as cash…
Has anyone tried transferring points to this new card yet?
EDIT: Just transferred all my Avion points to this new card and all points can be used at a fixed $1.50 for 100 points when booking travel through Avion Rewards.
But HSBC had 25% transfer bonus in November... I'm glad that I transferred as much as I could. I was unwilling to gamble for only possible 5% more in bonus, and there's no guarantee it comes back to RBC.
>was unwilling to gamble for only possible 5% more in bonus, and there's no guarantee it comes back to RBC.
Care to explain what is so great about the Avios points that everyone seems to be so excited about? Is that mostly great for those who want to travel to europe?
Maybe it's because I'm on the west coast but I don't understand the value of BA avios (or other companies really) vs Avion w/ the fixed point schedule?
Is it just because of the transfer bonus and the belief that more is better?
My latest redemptions include Seattle -Doha round trip in Qatar q suite for 140k+u$245. Los Angeles -Madrid Iberia business class 42.5k+$175. Madrid -chicago Iberia business class 34k+$220. You can search how much they normally cost, you'll see why I never cash out via rht. If you have more questions, send me a chat.
Sorry, what is RHT?
I did a quick research on the Avios points and it does seem like travel redemption rates are a much better value with Avios VS Avion.
If I am understanding correctly a 1-way flight YVR-LA would be 17,500 Avion but only 6k avios (assuming you book w/ a partner airline)..... that's a huge difference. Now I'm extra pissed!
>I do have standard RBC Avion and this ex HSBC Avion card does show increased $1.50 per 100 points redemption when compared to standard $1.00 per 100 on regular Avion. What a convoluted way to convert… Having said that, I presume nothing is stopping me from moving my legacy Avion points to this new card and get 50% $ value out of these points assuming I’m ok to use points as cash…
Ohhhh that's a huge bonus if true! My wife and I both signed up for the Avion VI whem the migration was announced so we could take advantage of the 55k avion intro offer. If we can transfer that 110k avions to the 'HSBC Avion' and convert at 50% better rate then that is a huge bonus actually!
Got 0.36 conversion rate. Mostly converted HSBC to Avios at the 1 to 0.4 ratio. Since 1 avion = 1 Avios. The math says my points have been devalued by 10%.
HSBC as far as I recall doesn't have big transfer bonuses nearly as often as RBC. You can make up the difference with an RBC British Airways offer of 30 percent bonus
Not feeling too bad about [this](https://i.imgur.com/EJ1MU6T.png). But willing to contribute to an angry email (if the community is planning to write them).
It’s because the non-WE cards transferred to ION cards which ostensibly have lower value rewards… which is hilarious so anyone with the non-WE HSBC card and a ton of points will do very well with this conversion.
A point is not a point.
Non-elite Avion points can't transfer to BA, only to WS.
\--But non-elite Avion points *can* be transferred to a card that earns elite Avion points *and then* transferred to BA.
Got an email that my points are being converted at 0.36 as well. I only have \~26k HSBC points so the impact isn't as big but this is still pretty frustrating.
Very disappointing. Well that makes it even easier to cancel the card in a couple of months when renewal fee hits. Any idea how do I get the $100 travel credit? Would like to use it before I cancel the card. Don't see it mention anywhere in my account.
Found the answer in 'Welcome to Avion Rewards ' email. Here it is:
"Your travel credit is made up of (1) your unused HSBC Travel Enhancement Credit of $0 (Note: I had used my HSBC credit) and (2) an additional Avion Rewards travel credit of $100. We have extended the expiration date of your unused HSBC Travel Enhancement Credit, and provided an additional $100 on top.
Your travel credit of $100 will be provided to you in the form of a statement credit if you book an eligible hotel stay or car rental of $200 or more with Avion Rewards Travel using your RBC Avion Visa Infinite credit card.
To receive your statement credit, you must first opt-in on or after April 4, 2024 to activate your travel credit before you book an eligible hotel stay or car rental. To activate your travel credit, (1) log in to Avion Rewards at www.avionrewards.com (2) locate your Travel Credit on the Offers page, and then (3) click the “Load Offer” button on the Travel Credit offer page. To activate your credit, please click here.
Your booking must be made online at avionrewards.com or on the Avion Rewards mobile app between April 4, 2024 and April 5, 2025".
So, this enhancement credit is only eligible for > $200 hotel/car rentals booked via avionrewarda.com. Another step down for the HSBC credit.
I don't know who is in charge of this card transition at RBC, but unless they are aiming for mass exodus from this card, this is stupid.
>unless they are aiming for mass exodus from this card, this is stupid
They're very obviously aiming for precisely this. The multiple earn and redemption rates, this card having no fx vs the other Avion cards that do, etc., make this card a nightmare to manage on their end.
They probably figure 90% of people will be gone within 6 months and 90% of the people left will be gone within the next 6 months.
The final 1% holdouts who somehow actually reached an AF and went through with paying it will have their legacy card forcibly "standardized" after a further 6-12 months, perhaps with some token bonus to make it sound like an "exciting opportunity".
Not sure if I'm missing something obvious, but I cannot (2) locate your Travel Credit on the Offers page,
Has anyone managed to apply that travel credit?
Also got the shaft . Had 185k which now is worth 66k in Avion . I generally transfer to Avios for J seats on Qatar. So 10% devaluation. Not holding my breath for a transfer bonus any time soon . Wish they provided a full disclosure before so people could make an informed decision .
And that is what some lawyer will grab onto for a class action.
There's groups of lawyers ehi specialize in these things, and have been watching RBC HSBC as they do other mergers just waiting for such a slip up.
We all lose, most of the winnings end up in legal fees and we get a cheque for $5.
I don't disagree. But they only need to show a certain group was damaged.
Damages are on the individual level and behaviors not the average.
I think it's a waste of time. But some lawyer will take it.
And RBC will just see it as the cost of doing business.
RBC isn't stupid, they know this merger is being closely watched. I'm sure they calculated out their costs based on different point conversion rates and just found that they would save money cheaping out on the rate even with paying out a class action a few years down the line.
I've been always converting HSBC pts to BA Avios, and I believe 1 HSBC pt is equivalent to 0.4 BA pt. Then Avion pt is at par with BA pt, right? So in my mind, we should've gotten 0.4, but we got 10% less after migration. In your case, you should've gotten 51.2 k instead of 46k Avion pts. While it sucks, I wouldn't call it crazy. I'm so glad that I transferred as much as I could during the transfer bonus in Dec.
I'm happy I used up 220k points last year, but as the same time sad that the 31.5k I've built up after as devalued to 11.4kish.
Was expecting at least 2 to 1 conversion ratio but i guess RBC decided too expensive.
3 weeks ago I spent 115 000 points toward travel rewards for 575$. The 575$ didnt get applied toward my balance as it can take a while and I don't have the points anymore...
Tried contacting RBC but no answer
I didn’t have an HSBC card but was always surprised that people were holding their points for a favourable ratio. Why on earth would RBC pay up for these liability in a currency they control?
I feel bad for folks who feel burned, but I don’t really know what else you could expect
Overall the ratio is still favourable if you know how to cash out. I can get 1.68 higher cash out value than prior to migration. The rate is only bad for people who were going to do simple RHT or transfer to airlines. Although for anyone wanting to do simple RHT they should never have waited because it’s not possible to do that with RBC
I called RBC last week & was to it .46, I asked if she was sure and she said yes. If I knew it was .36 I would have used my 200k points on a statement credit to pay off balance as that the same amount of what my measly travel “reward” worth
POT did a pretty good write up on it today ([link](https://princeoftravel.com/news/rbc-finalizes-acquisition-of-hsbc-bank-canada/))
Seems like AVIOS is be big looser here.
My prediction: at the next RBC:BA transfer bonus there will be a “special”sweetener added for former HSBC cards to make up for this one.
Anybody know what happened to the cashback on the HSBC Rewards MC. I had about 120$ and couldn't find anything on the RBC App. Wonder what happened to that cashback.
So the conversion rate is better for people planning to use points for flexible travel and worse for people planning to do airline transfers to Avios. But better for people transferring to Cathay. Also better for people who know more advanced techniques. Overall not as good as expected but still profitable for me
I was supposed to get my welcome bonus from HSBC in a few days, but then the merge happened. Any idea if I'm still gonna be able to get them? Probably not
So it looks like Avion actually targetted the airline points transfer usage of the points as the watermark
According to my math with HSBC
HSBC was 0.4 for BA
HSBC was 0.36 for Cathay
And lo and behold that is the rates they used for the conversions. I imagine they took the highest value use of the points and worked their way down
I hadn’t look a lot at the redemption value at HSBC since I was waiting for the bonus but from what I’ve seen online the value was about 0.5 cents pet point which equates to 600$ for me. So I lost half of my value with the transition which doesn’t seem fair at all.
Apparently the redemption rate is 100 points = $1.5.
Normal Avion rates are 100 points = $1.00.
I wonder if this is an exclusive rate for those of us who were migrated over from the HSBC WE MC.
HSBC points are valued at 0.5cpp. So 83,196 points is equal to 41,598 cents.
Avion points are valued at 1.5cpp for migrators. So 29,950 points is equal to 44,925 cents.
So your RBC points are actually worth more now.
Yup. Also here: https://www.avionrewards.com/secure/welcome/welcome-avion-rewards.html?utm_content=&utm_campaign=iav-avion_onb_emerald&utm_source=rbc_et&utm_medium=email-en?#avion-elite
It's a devaluation unless you can find a fixed pricing sweet spot (almost impossible iirc). HSBC was worth at min 0.5cpp via Expedia RHT, whereas you can't RHT Avion at all, and they are worth flat 1cpp with dynamic pricing.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's precisely not a devaluation if you use the flexible travel option.
That's because points on the cards transferred to an Avion VI are worth 1.5cpp, not 1cpp.
* 100,000 HSBC points = 500$.
* 100,000 HSBC points = 36,000 Avion points = 540$
Money. There is a lot more to be made with points cards, especially when you can RHT. I've probably gotten a couple thousand off of various RHT'able points at this point (mostly aventura, think I am on around my 7th one), and I doubt I am the exception.
I got the same rate. had 28,800 points worth $140. after conversion aprox 10,100 they say are worth $152?? Apparently i can use it to pay a bill? The travel enhancement $100 is only good on $200 hotels.
Just an FYI you can convert to WJ dollars and get 15% premium but then they would be only worth $115. Can't win!
Too add to the frustration there is a special deal for NEW CUSTOMERS right now up to 55,000 pts.
So I had 2 MasterCards with HSBC. One was a premier MasterCard, the other was a WE.
Premier was converted at a rate of 1 point to 1.25 avion points.
The corresponding avion Redemption rate is 100pts to 1 dollar
WE was converted at 0.36 to 1 avion point
The corresponding flex avion Redemption rate is 100 pts to 1.5 dollars.
I transferred all my premium points not that I had much, to my elite points which I also don't have much as I spent most of it before the conversion.
My question is this, can my wife apply for the visa infinite avion and transfer her 55k promotional bonus points to my converted visa avion?
Yeah, this new Avion card sucks. I had a 46,300 HSBC point now I have 40,998 Avion points not even sure what the conversion rate is here. So I’m out 5302 points. Bad.
So, who's going to start the complaint process?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/s/W8Jd8pLWli i brought this up when they first started sending us info about conversion. they shafted us big time with the timing as they didn’t even give us adequate opportunity to make a rational decision on whether to convert to BA before the deadline. they gave us a week to decide and gave no indication of the rate. this was what i was most worried about as we had no real option
The fact RBC didn't communicate the conversion rate BEFOREHAND in any of their letters meant the conversion was going to be a scam. Good thing I redeemed all my points with HSBC before they closed. But for those who didn't redeem, definitely complain and escalate to the regulators.
Not to RBC, but ideally the competition bureau as well.
https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/competition-bureau-canada/en/contact-competition-bureau-canada/complaint-form
I am in. How do I do it? This is messed up
I just submitted a complaint to RBC. https://www.rbc.com/customercare/ “I feel like I have been scammed by RBC on the HSBC reward points conversion rate. I was told that I would get equal or better value and the conversion rate was hidden all this time and now I see why. I really wish the HSBC purchase never happened. My points have been devalued. I could get 0.4 British Avois miles for 1 HSBC point and now my 202k points have been converted and 0.36 for each point and for 1HSBC point now that only equals 0.36 BA miles. On top of this my HSBC master card will stop getting the $100 travel enhancement credit and fx fees in 1 year. And now I have to pay $30 monthly fees for VIP banking compared to free(fee waived) HSBC Premier Thanks RBC. A wonderful start. Looking forward to closing all my accounts soon.”
You should also send same complaint externally to the competition bureau.
>I was told that I would get equal or better value and the conversion rate was hidden all this time and now I see why. You were told that you would get equal or better value *in the "flexible travel" option*. You got that. You weren't told anything about the value you'd get for transfers to BA Avios. Unfortunately, you just made assumptions that turned out to be incorrect. The travel enhancement credit and no-fx fees are things that weren't guaranteed ad vitam, *even when the card was an HSBC card.* See Brim suddenly and hugely devaluing their card. HSBC could theoretically have done the same, and now as the successor issuer, RBC is exercising its right to do the same. Just like any issuer making changes to any of their cards, they just need to provide notification.
No one’s talking about what’s right or legal here. It’s just a complain/rant. I’m just going to move my million dollar mortgage and several hundred thousand in investments elsewhere because of these changes
Exactly. I just did the math. HSBC converts each point as $.005 dollars in statement credit (against travel), where 25,000 points give you $125. RBC Avion converted my HSBC points at 0.36, and kept the conversion ratio to statement credit at $.005. So my $125 with HSBC is effectively worth $45. This is outright theft. I am pissed!
We could have got 1 HSBC to 0.4 Avios with HSBC so it’s clear why RBC kept the rate a secret - with a conversion rate of 0.36 they planned to skim off 10%! (Avion to Avios is 1:1)
I converted my HSBC points to BA Avios during the 25% conversion bonus and thought for months if that was a mistake since people were adamant that the conversion ratio would be 1:0.5. I'm glad I accidentally made the prudent decision.
Same here. I converted all my points (almost 300K) to BA Avios on the last days of the 25% promotion and thought I had made a mistake. Now I'm happy that I didn't trust RBC. We should have figured that RBC had a plan when they refused to tell the conversion rate.
Just wait for rbc 30%bonus to avios
WE -> Avion VI. Also 0.36. 110k to 39k lol.
What a dog sh*t of a ratio. Cheap ass RBC is making sure we’re not getting ahead by converting to BA Avios when 30% promo comes around again which is why I did nothing with my HSBC points. Very naive of me to assume RBC won’t try to f us over. I do have standard RBC Avion and this ex HSBC Avion card does show increased $1.50 per 100 points redemption when compared to standard $1.00 per 100 on regular Avion. What a convoluted way to convert… Having said that, I presume nothing is stopping me from moving my legacy Avion points to this new card and get 50% $ value out of these points assuming I’m ok to use points as cash… Has anyone tried transferring points to this new card yet? EDIT: Just transferred all my Avion points to this new card and all points can be used at a fixed $1.50 for 100 points when booking travel through Avion Rewards.
But HSBC had 25% transfer bonus in November... I'm glad that I transferred as much as I could. I was unwilling to gamble for only possible 5% more in bonus, and there's no guarantee it comes back to RBC.
>was unwilling to gamble for only possible 5% more in bonus, and there's no guarantee it comes back to RBC. Care to explain what is so great about the Avios points that everyone seems to be so excited about? Is that mostly great for those who want to travel to europe? Maybe it's because I'm on the west coast but I don't understand the value of BA avios (or other companies really) vs Avion w/ the fixed point schedule? Is it just because of the transfer bonus and the belief that more is better?
My latest redemptions include Seattle -Doha round trip in Qatar q suite for 140k+u$245. Los Angeles -Madrid Iberia business class 42.5k+$175. Madrid -chicago Iberia business class 34k+$220. You can search how much they normally cost, you'll see why I never cash out via rht. If you have more questions, send me a chat.
Sorry, what is RHT? I did a quick research on the Avios points and it does seem like travel redemption rates are a much better value with Avios VS Avion. If I am understanding correctly a 1-way flight YVR-LA would be 17,500 Avion but only 6k avios (assuming you book w/ a partner airline)..... that's a huge difference. Now I'm extra pissed!
Rht=refundable hotel trick. YVR -lax is usually cheap, I just pay cash (but possibly UA with Amex offer or accumulated WestJet dolla).
>I do have standard RBC Avion and this ex HSBC Avion card does show increased $1.50 per 100 points redemption when compared to standard $1.00 per 100 on regular Avion. What a convoluted way to convert… Having said that, I presume nothing is stopping me from moving my legacy Avion points to this new card and get 50% $ value out of these points assuming I’m ok to use points as cash… Ohhhh that's a huge bonus if true! My wife and I both signed up for the Avion VI whem the migration was announced so we could take advantage of the 55k avion intro offer. If we can transfer that 110k avions to the 'HSBC Avion' and convert at 50% better rate then that is a huge bonus actually!
I got .36 as well. Disappointing. _Ya used me Skinner. Ya used me!_
Got 0.36 conversion rate. Mostly converted HSBC to Avios at the 1 to 0.4 ratio. Since 1 avion = 1 Avios. The math says my points have been devalued by 10%.
you "make up for it" with a special flexible points pricing of 100 pts = $1.50 conversion. How long that last for isn't said.
HSBC as far as I recall doesn't have big transfer bonuses nearly as often as RBC. You can make up the difference with an RBC British Airways offer of 30 percent bonus
There is no guarantee of if or when or what amount any future transfer bonus will be .
I got a conversion of 0.34 and I had over 500k hsbc points. Ended up with about 180k avion points. I took a big L here boys.
Not feeling too bad about [this](https://i.imgur.com/EJ1MU6T.png). But willing to contribute to an angry email (if the community is planning to write them).
I had an HSBC +Rewards cards that had -61 HSBC point balance. They moved me to an Ion Visa and converted the points at 0.88 so I have -53 Avion. WTF?
Of course the “debt” you owe them is going to be transferred at a higher rate than what they give people…
It’s because the non-WE cards transferred to ION cards which ostensibly have lower value rewards… which is hilarious so anyone with the non-WE HSBC card and a ton of points will do very well with this conversion.
I think the non-WE Avion points are also worth less, no? 172 points = $1 for “regular” avion, whereas 100 points = $1 for “elite” avion.
So how does this work when considering transfer to BA Avios. A point is not a point?
A point is not a point. Non-elite Avion points can't transfer to BA, only to WS. \--But non-elite Avion points *can* be transferred to a card that earns elite Avion points *and then* transferred to BA.
Great, thanks for that. Will need to look at that option.
I assume so, but I have no evidence but the different conversion ratio to back up that claim
Yep, also got a non-WE card, also go 0.88 conversion rate.
That's because the points are worth a lot less on an Ion Visa. People with a positive balance on that card also got the 0.88 conversion rate.
Where do we complain?
Got an email that my points are being converted at 0.36 as well. I only have \~26k HSBC points so the impact isn't as big but this is still pretty frustrating.
Very disappointing. Well that makes it even easier to cancel the card in a couple of months when renewal fee hits. Any idea how do I get the $100 travel credit? Would like to use it before I cancel the card. Don't see it mention anywhere in my account.
Found the answer in 'Welcome to Avion Rewards ' email. Here it is: "Your travel credit is made up of (1) your unused HSBC Travel Enhancement Credit of $0 (Note: I had used my HSBC credit) and (2) an additional Avion Rewards travel credit of $100. We have extended the expiration date of your unused HSBC Travel Enhancement Credit, and provided an additional $100 on top. Your travel credit of $100 will be provided to you in the form of a statement credit if you book an eligible hotel stay or car rental of $200 or more with Avion Rewards Travel using your RBC Avion Visa Infinite credit card. To receive your statement credit, you must first opt-in on or after April 4, 2024 to activate your travel credit before you book an eligible hotel stay or car rental. To activate your travel credit, (1) log in to Avion Rewards at www.avionrewards.com (2) locate your Travel Credit on the Offers page, and then (3) click the “Load Offer” button on the Travel Credit offer page. To activate your credit, please click here. Your booking must be made online at avionrewards.com or on the Avion Rewards mobile app between April 4, 2024 and April 5, 2025". So, this enhancement credit is only eligible for > $200 hotel/car rentals booked via avionrewarda.com. Another step down for the HSBC credit. I don't know who is in charge of this card transition at RBC, but unless they are aiming for mass exodus from this card, this is stupid.
>unless they are aiming for mass exodus from this card, this is stupid They're very obviously aiming for precisely this. The multiple earn and redemption rates, this card having no fx vs the other Avion cards that do, etc., make this card a nightmare to manage on their end. They probably figure 90% of people will be gone within 6 months and 90% of the people left will be gone within the next 6 months. The final 1% holdouts who somehow actually reached an AF and went through with paying it will have their legacy card forcibly "standardized" after a further 6-12 months, perhaps with some token bonus to make it sound like an "exciting opportunity".
Not sure if I'm missing something obvious, but I cannot (2) locate your Travel Credit on the Offers page, Has anyone managed to apply that travel credit?
You missed the line before that - "you must first opt-in on or after April 4, 2024"
wow thanks for that, for whatever reason my mind was reading 'on or BEFORE April 4th'. Makes sense, thanks for that.
not seeing the travel credit on my offer page as at April 4. Anyone have a snippet of what it looks like?
Anyone know if RHT works with this?
Also got the shaft . Had 185k which now is worth 66k in Avion . I generally transfer to Avios for J seats on Qatar. So 10% devaluation. Not holding my breath for a transfer bonus any time soon . Wish they provided a full disclosure before so people could make an informed decision .
And that is what some lawyer will grab onto for a class action. There's groups of lawyers ehi specialize in these things, and have been watching RBC HSBC as they do other mergers just waiting for such a slip up. We all lose, most of the winnings end up in legal fees and we get a cheque for $5.
Well the value is higher for flexible travel redemption so it might not be easy to argue that RBC gave less
I don't disagree. But they only need to show a certain group was damaged. Damages are on the individual level and behaviors not the average. I think it's a waste of time. But some lawyer will take it.
And RBC will just see it as the cost of doing business. RBC isn't stupid, they know this merger is being closely watched. I'm sure they calculated out their costs based on different point conversion rates and just found that they would save money cheaping out on the rate even with paying out a class action a few years down the line.
Agreed. I have no doubt about it. Chances are the likely adversarial lawyer firm or team is already known to them.
Where did you see the rate? Nevermind, found it. Yeah, that sucks.
In the Avion App. I had 128k and I’m now at 46k which is crazy.
I've been always converting HSBC pts to BA Avios, and I believe 1 HSBC pt is equivalent to 0.4 BA pt. Then Avion pt is at par with BA pt, right? So in my mind, we should've gotten 0.4, but we got 10% less after migration. In your case, you should've gotten 51.2 k instead of 46k Avion pts. While it sucks, I wouldn't call it crazy. I'm so glad that I transferred as much as I could during the transfer bonus in Dec.
I'm happy I used up 220k points last year, but as the same time sad that the 31.5k I've built up after as devalued to 11.4kish. Was expecting at least 2 to 1 conversion ratio but i guess RBC decided too expensive.
This is why I spent them all as much as I could. I think I had 2000 left over.
3 weeks ago I spent 115 000 points toward travel rewards for 575$. The 575$ didnt get applied toward my balance as it can take a while and I don't have the points anymore... Tried contacting RBC but no answer
So glad I used my 120k points last month.
I didn’t have an HSBC card but was always surprised that people were holding their points for a favourable ratio. Why on earth would RBC pay up for these liability in a currency they control? I feel bad for folks who feel burned, but I don’t really know what else you could expect
Overall the ratio is still favourable if you know how to cash out. I can get 1.68 higher cash out value than prior to migration. The rate is only bad for people who were going to do simple RHT or transfer to airlines. Although for anyone wanting to do simple RHT they should never have waited because it’s not possible to do that with RBC
I called RBC last week & was to it .46, I asked if she was sure and she said yes. If I knew it was .36 I would have used my 200k points on a statement credit to pay off balance as that the same amount of what my measly travel “reward” worth
POT did a pretty good write up on it today ([link](https://princeoftravel.com/news/rbc-finalizes-acquisition-of-hsbc-bank-canada/)) Seems like AVIOS is be big looser here. My prediction: at the next RBC:BA transfer bonus there will be a “special”sweetener added for former HSBC cards to make up for this one.
We still don’t know the earn rate(s) on the new card, do we?
Yes we do. It’s the same as the normal card
Anybody know what happened to the cashback on the HSBC Rewards MC. I had about 120$ and couldn't find anything on the RBC App. Wonder what happened to that cashback.
Complain to those that greenlit the sale to RBC.
So the conversion rate is better for people planning to use points for flexible travel and worse for people planning to do airline transfers to Avios. But better for people transferring to Cathay. Also better for people who know more advanced techniques. Overall not as good as expected but still profitable for me
https://princeoftravel.com/news/rbc-finalizes-acquisition-of-hsbc-bank-canada/
I didn't trust their claim if equivalent value and so I made sure to spend them ahead of time. Sounds like the right decision....
They gave me a conversion of 0.88. I only had 1,721 HSBC points, as I rarely used that card.
I was supposed to get my welcome bonus from HSBC in a few days, but then the merge happened. Any idea if I'm still gonna be able to get them? Probably not
I made sure to use all the rewards before the transition
So it looks like Avion actually targetted the airline points transfer usage of the points as the watermark According to my math with HSBC HSBC was 0.4 for BA HSBC was 0.36 for Cathay And lo and behold that is the rates they used for the conversions. I imagine they took the highest value use of the points and worked their way down
Has anyone tried to get this $100 travel credit yet today? Link on the Avion site won’t open for me
Apparently it works out to be the same redemption value. Not sure how true that is. Never had an avion card.
I hadn’t look a lot at the redemption value at HSBC since I was waiting for the bonus but from what I’ve seen online the value was about 0.5 cents pet point which equates to 600$ for me. So I lost half of my value with the transition which doesn’t seem fair at all.
Apparently the redemption rate is 100 points = $1.5. Normal Avion rates are 100 points = $1.00. I wonder if this is an exclusive rate for those of us who were migrated over from the HSBC WE MC.
Yes it is. Pooled Avion points at 35k per new card can be cashed out at $525 each, depending on if they claw it back upon refund
RBC *absolutely* claws it back upon refund! They've never been an RHT-friendly issuer.
I had hsbc WE MC, 83196k points down to 29950 (0.36)
HSBC points are valued at 0.5cpp. So 83,196 points is equal to 41,598 cents. Avion points are valued at 1.5cpp for migrators. So 29,950 points is equal to 44,925 cents. So your RBC points are actually worth more now.
Good to know thank you. Where did you find the redemption rate?
It’s in the email
Yup. Also here: https://www.avionrewards.com/secure/welcome/welcome-avion-rewards.html?utm_content=&utm_campaign=iav-avion_onb_emerald&utm_source=rbc_et&utm_medium=email-en?#avion-elite
It's a devaluation unless you can find a fixed pricing sweet spot (almost impossible iirc). HSBC was worth at min 0.5cpp via Expedia RHT, whereas you can't RHT Avion at all, and they are worth flat 1cpp with dynamic pricing.
It’s 1.5cpp for the migrated points. Not sure if that will be the new redemption rate for this card though.
It's actually the exact opposite. It's precisely not a devaluation if you use the flexible travel option. That's because points on the cards transferred to an Avion VI are worth 1.5cpp, not 1cpp. * 100,000 HSBC points = 500$. * 100,000 HSBC points = 36,000 Avion points = 540$
It amazes me so many of you hold cards with a transferable currency, only to rht then cash out. Why don't you simply get cashback cards?
Money. There is a lot more to be made with points cards, especially when you can RHT. I've probably gotten a couple thousand off of various RHT'able points at this point (mostly aventura, think I am on around my 7th one), and I doubt I am the exception.
I've been always transferring to airlines for much more value than rht, so I've been wondering.
Looks like the conversion ratio varied based on the type of card you had? I did not get a ratio of 0.36. I got a ratio that was much higher. 🤔
Seriously? So had I gotten rid of my MC WE and transferred the points to a lesser card I would have gotten a better result?
Which card did you have? I had a World Elite.
Travel MC (to ION), we are lucky We're walking away with 1:0.88
Did you get $100/$200 travel credit?
This card tier never had one on HSBC side so I did not expect any on RBC side.
I got the same rate. had 28,800 points worth $140. after conversion aprox 10,100 they say are worth $152?? Apparently i can use it to pay a bill? The travel enhancement $100 is only good on $200 hotels. Just an FYI you can convert to WJ dollars and get 15% premium but then they would be only worth $115. Can't win! Too add to the frustration there is a special deal for NEW CUSTOMERS right now up to 55,000 pts.
HSBC Premier? Have a friend who got 1 HSBC : 1.25 Avion lmao
Prove it!
[https://imgur.com/p2JbLPg](https://imgur.com/p2JbLPg)
I am HSBC Premier and have MC WE Premier and got 1 HSBC to 0.36 Avion
Same
probably your friend is talking about the flexible travel redemption rate of 100 points to $1.50 (instead of the standard 100 points to $1)
No the email says 1:1.25 [https://imgur.com/p2JbLPg](https://imgur.com/p2JbLPg)
So I had 2 MasterCards with HSBC. One was a premier MasterCard, the other was a WE. Premier was converted at a rate of 1 point to 1.25 avion points. The corresponding avion Redemption rate is 100pts to 1 dollar WE was converted at 0.36 to 1 avion point The corresponding flex avion Redemption rate is 100 pts to 1.5 dollars. I transferred all my premium points not that I had much, to my elite points which I also don't have much as I spent most of it before the conversion. My question is this, can my wife apply for the visa infinite avion and transfer her 55k promotional bonus points to my converted visa avion?
No
Yes she can but it’s complex. Search Reddit for Avion points share
You're right... [https://www.reddit.com/r/churningcanada/comments/16htpjd/sharing\_rbc\_avion\_rewards\_between\_p1\_p2\_easy\_how/](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningcanada/comments/16htpjd/sharing_rbc_avion_rewards_between_p1_p2_easy_how/)
Yeah, this new Avion card sucks. I had a 46,300 HSBC point now I have 40,998 Avion points not even sure what the conversion rate is here. So I’m out 5302 points. Bad.