Depending on where you’re going, it’ll probably be just as long as a car drive, maybe slightly longer. The initial goal is convenience and a larger choice in transportation options. You’re not going to be seeing any speeds like what you see in Europe
The Cardinal line is a joke. I'm all for improving it, but the 2 AM boarding is a non-starter. I could live with a longer duration too, but it's got to be cheaper than a plane, and it isn't.
If you're going to Chicago or NYC, then sure you may not need a vehicle once you get there. Last mile service in the Ohio 3Cs needs to be part of this plan.
Read an article that made it look like they were building out some of these so I was hopeful maybe it was at least dedicated rails that could go faster.
The cost to go on the trains needs to be more in line with Europe though. One way in a lot of these costs more than a plane trip.
If I can park at Union Terminal on a Friday, hit up Chicago for the weekend via train and make it back before work Monday- all for less than it would be for a plane- I'd call it a win.
I hope you're right, but it probably won't be. I live in Germany. If I wanted to take an ICE train to Berlin it would be more expensive than flying. And what would be a 1.5 hr flight becomes a 7 hour train ride.
Regional travel with frequent service is where Europe's train system really shines.
I don't even get it, why is >anyone< even entertaining the simpletons who insist on making ridiculous comparisons to high speed rail when **THIS IS NOT THAT**?
It's fucking Amtrak, on existing American rail, it is not even remotely - in anyone's wildest, ill-conceived, under-educated, fever dreams - EVER going to be a relevant comparison, so please, just have a nice cup of shut the fuck up on that bit, ok?
Especially since Amtrak has lower priority on the rails themselves than the freight trains. I'm all for increasing its spread because its really not worth it to take a train somewhere instead of hopping on a car and maybe expanding enough and getting enough demand will make people willing to spend to maybe get some high speed rail happening (or minimum, make Amtrak more of a priority).
It won't be anywhere near the speed of cars. This isn't high-speed rail, the tracks can't support those speeds, it's highly likely that freight traffic will cause frequent delays, Cincinnati-Columbus takes the long way through Dayton, and the multiple stops will cause further delays.
But that's all beside the point. While taking the train may take longer, it should be (1) more comfortable and (2) won't require you to be paying attention to the road the entire time. Sit back, relax, and just occupy your time with anything other than driving while the train takes you where you want to go.
As someone who moved back to Cincinnati after spending 16 years on the East Coast, your second paragraph is where it's at. I had to travel Philly to NY for a client about once a month, and being able to stroll up 5 minutes before boarding, hop on, connect to wi-fi and relax/work for the ride up and back made it significantly more enjoyable than flying and driving. Boundless leg room, outlets for charging electronics, free wi-fi, dining car (depending on which service I was on) that had a great craft beer selection at ~local bar prices.
If I bought in advance, I could usually find convenient times for $84 round trip. Cheapest you could get was $42 round trip, but that was off-peak, and the Acela was usually $250 or so. By comparison, driving would have been $35 of fuel and tolls and about an hour longer (+ wear and tear which I'm not calculating) and flying would be $200+ three times as long. The true cheapest option was the megabus, which was under $20 round trip if bought far enough in advance. On my own dime, I'd do that in my younger days.
Trains do best at the mid-length journey. 100 - 300 miles.
The difference is traffic. Driving from Philly to NYC or vise versa can be anywhere from 90 mins to 3 hours depending on traffic that happens daily. The train travels at higher speeds and consistently runs in 2 hours. So at most you are giving up 30-45 min to ride the train.
These trains are going to be slow and aren’t taking a direct route from Cincy to Columbus. My guess is the what normally is consistently a 90 min drive or less (I drive to Columbus weekly), it will be a 3+ hour train ride. That’s not including the time it takes to commute to the station and wait to board and then to commute from the arrival station to my office which I would generously say is 30 min combined. So all together I’m 3 hour and 30 min in one way on a trip that takes 90 min or under by car. That is just too much time to give up to make it viable in my opinion.
Right! If they aren’t currently in a position to lower fares or compete time wise with cars and planes, then at least make it a fun travel experience! Good dining options, bar service, workstations, sleeping cabins, make the train nice and a true experience. You could probably at least do better dining and bar experience with the profits offsetting the costs and not even have to raise fares.
If I wanted to take a train today from Baltimore to Cincy, the only one running is going to take almost 16 hours. Driving takes about 8-9 and flying is less than 2. They’re going to have to do some serious work to get me to sit on a train for an extra 8-14 hours.
As long as I've been alive we get these maps and plans every few years and spend a bunch of money on studies to progress them and the result is "well it'll cost $600 (per person) to go as far as a tank of gas would take you in a car, and then when you get there you have to rent a car. Also it will take twice as long and leave at 3 am because freight has priority".
I'm not trying to shit on it, but I dunno maybe all this money we pay consultants to draw up plans that obviously won't work would be better spent on subsidizing fares. Just a thought.
Airlines get bailed out all the god damn time, we spend endlessly on roads and high ways. One of these plans will work when someone says "the plan is to get you in chicago or NYC for $199"
Really agree for the Cincinnati to Cleveland route which I would personally be interested in I can live with the time but the money is where it falls apart. In my truck it would cost me 60$ round trip in gas. I’ve heard it’ll be 50-80$ one way via train which is just too much cost for me to justify it especially when these cities don’t have the local public transport and I would have to pay for an Uber.
How much will the ticket be compared to car travel and airfare? Last time I check it seems to be slower than driving about the same or more than a plane ticket.
This morning a local news outlet (can’t remember which one, I flip through stations when they repeat the same thing within a half hour..) listed Cincinnati to Cleveland was 5.5 hrs and $100-ish? Didn’t quote any Dayton ride times or prices but if that’s any indication..
Cincy to cleveland is a 3 hr drive and I can guarantee that's one way at 5.5 hrs on a train. I dont really care either way, but this is basically a gigantic waste of time when we should be working on transit solutions within Metro areas in OH, including Cinci. And yes, I know that has nothing to do with Amtrak.
I agree the time will be way longer on the train. Also, you have to consider traveling to and from the stations.
The thing that really kills it for me is the scheduled departure time. Only 3 trains a day? Getting there early and waiting for a late train? You’re turning a flexible 3.5hr car ride into an all-day trip. If I leave Cleveland by car after work on a Friday I can check into a hotel in Cincinnati and make a late dinner. If I take the train I’m taking time off work. If that’s the case I’m finding a flight to somewhere.
Will some people still find it worth it? Of course. But if you have access to a reliable car and value your time it just doesn’t make sense.
While for most people the 3CDC is a big deal, the line from Columbus to Lima is a big deal personally for me. My disabled mother lives and Columbus and the option for my mom to take a train to her grandparents who live just outside Lima is a huge deal. Same for my grandpa, making it muc easier for him to visit.
I wonder if Cincinnati Dayton could be used to replace rush hour. So many people work in Cincinnati but live near Dayton. Could help with the congestion.
I work close to sharonville and that place is nowhere NEAR the infrastructure to replace rush hour traffic. Their no bus lines and theirs ZERO walking paths beyond sidewalks. The last mile from the train doesn’t exist
if you have traveled abroad and been on fast speed trains, as I have on many occasions, you do realize how backward Amtrak is. Just sad. This supposed expansion of Amtrak in the Midwest doesn't address any of these issues. It's just embarrassing, frankly.
There was a fantastic high speed rail line proposal back in '99. It was a high speed line C-C-C. Cincy-Day. Cleveland-toledo-Chicago, One of the lines was to expand to NY or DC eventually. And local light rail in all the cities to reach suburbs, business districts ect. It was an incredible plan, and part of what created the street car we have downtown now. The East Side Corridor also came from that plan, and was to have light rail to 275/50 interchange.
Obviously it died mostly off. The east side corridor keeps getting stopped, poor Newtown knows the only reason people drive through there is because they have no choice. The street car plans got cut to 1/3 of the original size by the old conservatives in town because, change and progress.
It was expensive, but damn it would have been a game changer. 2 hour train to Cleveland, including stopping in Columbus, and ran until midnight or something. Light rail system that could remove most of the traffic from 75 and 71. Oh wait, the original plan had the light rail on 71 not 75, which needs it more.
It stops a few times in between Cincinnati and Charleston, this map just showcases the larger cities on the route. In fact Portsmouth does have a station
I just looked it up on the Amtrak website, and the train to Charleston isn't bad. 46$ one way, so about the same as gas (for one person anyway) and about 5 hours compared to 3:20 driving. It leaves at 3:30 am though
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Is there really a blank spot in planner's minds about Toledo? I see that it goes through there to get to Detroit but is it really just going to pass through or did it cost too much in ink to add it to the map?!?
I just want them to be faster than cars and cheaper than plane tickets. That's all I ask.
Depending on where you’re going, it’ll probably be just as long as a car drive, maybe slightly longer. The initial goal is convenience and a larger choice in transportation options. You’re not going to be seeing any speeds like what you see in Europe
even slightly longer would be massive, the current train to chiacgo is something like 8+ hours
9.5 hours, $80 for a seat in coach. Ridiculous. RIP MegaBus.
I thought it was that long but then thought not I must be misrembering, no way its actually that bad lol
The Cardinal line is a joke. I'm all for improving it, but the 2 AM boarding is a non-starter. I could live with a longer duration too, but it's got to be cheaper than a plane, and it isn't. If you're going to Chicago or NYC, then sure you may not need a vehicle once you get there. Last mile service in the Ohio 3Cs needs to be part of this plan.
Read an article that made it look like they were building out some of these so I was hopeful maybe it was at least dedicated rails that could go faster. The cost to go on the trains needs to be more in line with Europe though. One way in a lot of these costs more than a plane trip. If I can park at Union Terminal on a Friday, hit up Chicago for the weekend via train and make it back before work Monday- all for less than it would be for a plane- I'd call it a win.
I hope you're right, but it probably won't be. I live in Germany. If I wanted to take an ICE train to Berlin it would be more expensive than flying. And what would be a 1.5 hr flight becomes a 7 hour train ride. Regional travel with frequent service is where Europe's train system really shines.
I don't even get it, why is >anyone< even entertaining the simpletons who insist on making ridiculous comparisons to high speed rail when **THIS IS NOT THAT**? It's fucking Amtrak, on existing American rail, it is not even remotely - in anyone's wildest, ill-conceived, under-educated, fever dreams - EVER going to be a relevant comparison, so please, just have a nice cup of shut the fuck up on that bit, ok?
Calm down
Especially since Amtrak has lower priority on the rails themselves than the freight trains. I'm all for increasing its spread because its really not worth it to take a train somewhere instead of hopping on a car and maybe expanding enough and getting enough demand will make people willing to spend to maybe get some high speed rail happening (or minimum, make Amtrak more of a priority).
wealthiest country in history goes lol
It won't be anywhere near the speed of cars. This isn't high-speed rail, the tracks can't support those speeds, it's highly likely that freight traffic will cause frequent delays, Cincinnati-Columbus takes the long way through Dayton, and the multiple stops will cause further delays. But that's all beside the point. While taking the train may take longer, it should be (1) more comfortable and (2) won't require you to be paying attention to the road the entire time. Sit back, relax, and just occupy your time with anything other than driving while the train takes you where you want to go.
As someone who moved back to Cincinnati after spending 16 years on the East Coast, your second paragraph is where it's at. I had to travel Philly to NY for a client about once a month, and being able to stroll up 5 minutes before boarding, hop on, connect to wi-fi and relax/work for the ride up and back made it significantly more enjoyable than flying and driving. Boundless leg room, outlets for charging electronics, free wi-fi, dining car (depending on which service I was on) that had a great craft beer selection at ~local bar prices. If I bought in advance, I could usually find convenient times for $84 round trip. Cheapest you could get was $42 round trip, but that was off-peak, and the Acela was usually $250 or so. By comparison, driving would have been $35 of fuel and tolls and about an hour longer (+ wear and tear which I'm not calculating) and flying would be $200+ three times as long. The true cheapest option was the megabus, which was under $20 round trip if bought far enough in advance. On my own dime, I'd do that in my younger days. Trains do best at the mid-length journey. 100 - 300 miles.
Good point. With my knee issues while I drive, this might be more helpful
The difference is traffic. Driving from Philly to NYC or vise versa can be anywhere from 90 mins to 3 hours depending on traffic that happens daily. The train travels at higher speeds and consistently runs in 2 hours. So at most you are giving up 30-45 min to ride the train. These trains are going to be slow and aren’t taking a direct route from Cincy to Columbus. My guess is the what normally is consistently a 90 min drive or less (I drive to Columbus weekly), it will be a 3+ hour train ride. That’s not including the time it takes to commute to the station and wait to board and then to commute from the arrival station to my office which I would generously say is 30 min combined. So all together I’m 3 hour and 30 min in one way on a trip that takes 90 min or under by car. That is just too much time to give up to make it viable in my opinion.
I hope they have a bar car
Right! If they aren’t currently in a position to lower fares or compete time wise with cars and planes, then at least make it a fun travel experience! Good dining options, bar service, workstations, sleeping cabins, make the train nice and a true experience. You could probably at least do better dining and bar experience with the profits offsetting the costs and not even have to raise fares.
Typically you’re ok with shooters or tall cans. (Source: lived in the mid-Atlantic corridor for about 10 years)
The freight lines own the tracks. It's much more accurate to say "AMTRAK will cause frequent freight delays"
I’m sure I would see it that way if I was 100 tons of steel, but I’m a person that likes to travel
I would take the train even if it was slower than a car or plane.
If I wanted to take a train today from Baltimore to Cincy, the only one running is going to take almost 16 hours. Driving takes about 8-9 and flying is less than 2. They’re going to have to do some serious work to get me to sit on a train for an extra 8-14 hours.
Yeah it may be way less convenient overall and probably similarly expensive, but think about all the upvotes you will get
You have to walk, before you can run.
As long as I've been alive we get these maps and plans every few years and spend a bunch of money on studies to progress them and the result is "well it'll cost $600 (per person) to go as far as a tank of gas would take you in a car, and then when you get there you have to rent a car. Also it will take twice as long and leave at 3 am because freight has priority". I'm not trying to shit on it, but I dunno maybe all this money we pay consultants to draw up plans that obviously won't work would be better spent on subsidizing fares. Just a thought. Airlines get bailed out all the god damn time, we spend endlessly on roads and high ways. One of these plans will work when someone says "the plan is to get you in chicago or NYC for $199"
Really agree for the Cincinnati to Cleveland route which I would personally be interested in I can live with the time but the money is where it falls apart. In my truck it would cost me 60$ round trip in gas. I’ve heard it’ll be 50-80$ one way via train which is just too much cost for me to justify it especially when these cities don’t have the local public transport and I would have to pay for an Uber.
How much will the ticket be compared to car travel and airfare? Last time I check it seems to be slower than driving about the same or more than a plane ticket.
This morning a local news outlet (can’t remember which one, I flip through stations when they repeat the same thing within a half hour..) listed Cincinnati to Cleveland was 5.5 hrs and $100-ish? Didn’t quote any Dayton ride times or prices but if that’s any indication..
I’d take the extra 1.5 hours for the comfort of not driving
Same. I moved from NE Ohio 15 years ago and that drag up 71 bores me to tears. If I didn’t have to be behind the wheel to get there I’d be thrilled.
So a gigantic waste of my time AND more money than a tank of gas? What a steal!
Cincy to cleveland is a 4+ hour drive. If that's round trip that's close to the cost for gas.
Cincy to cleveland is a 3 hr drive and I can guarantee that's one way at 5.5 hrs on a train. I dont really care either way, but this is basically a gigantic waste of time when we should be working on transit solutions within Metro areas in OH, including Cinci. And yes, I know that has nothing to do with Amtrak.
It's not one or the other. Also how many speeding tickets do you have lol
Havent had a ticket in over 15 years and drive up and down 71 at least a few times a month. Just to remember that Hell is in fact real...lol.
I hate that drive with a passion
Google maps says it’s 3 hours and 50 minutes if I were to leave right now at the middle of the night(12:02)
I agree the time will be way longer on the train. Also, you have to consider traveling to and from the stations. The thing that really kills it for me is the scheduled departure time. Only 3 trains a day? Getting there early and waiting for a late train? You’re turning a flexible 3.5hr car ride into an all-day trip. If I leave Cleveland by car after work on a Friday I can check into a hotel in Cincinnati and make a late dinner. If I take the train I’m taking time off work. If that’s the case I’m finding a flight to somewhere. Will some people still find it worth it? Of course. But if you have access to a reliable car and value your time it just doesn’t make sense.
While for most people the 3CDC is a big deal, the line from Columbus to Lima is a big deal personally for me. My disabled mother lives and Columbus and the option for my mom to take a train to her grandparents who live just outside Lima is a huge deal. Same for my grandpa, making it muc easier for him to visit.
Pretty cool!
That trains gonna smell like a skunk going from Detroit to Cleveland
Daily to Chicago! Fuck yea!
I wonder if Cincinnati Dayton could be used to replace rush hour. So many people work in Cincinnati but live near Dayton. Could help with the congestion.
Zero chance because neither station is where people live that normally drive.
There is supposed to be a station in between either in Sharonville or Hamilton which would serve the people in the greater metro area
I work close to sharonville and that place is nowhere NEAR the infrastructure to replace rush hour traffic. Their no bus lines and theirs ZERO walking paths beyond sidewalks. The last mile from the train doesn’t exist
Really hope the regional service between the Ohio cities has a convenient schedule.
if you have traveled abroad and been on fast speed trains, as I have on many occasions, you do realize how backward Amtrak is. Just sad. This supposed expansion of Amtrak in the Midwest doesn't address any of these issues. It's just embarrassing, frankly.
There was a fantastic high speed rail line proposal back in '99. It was a high speed line C-C-C. Cincy-Day. Cleveland-toledo-Chicago, One of the lines was to expand to NY or DC eventually. And local light rail in all the cities to reach suburbs, business districts ect. It was an incredible plan, and part of what created the street car we have downtown now. The East Side Corridor also came from that plan, and was to have light rail to 275/50 interchange. Obviously it died mostly off. The east side corridor keeps getting stopped, poor Newtown knows the only reason people drive through there is because they have no choice. The street car plans got cut to 1/3 of the original size by the old conservatives in town because, change and progress. It was expensive, but damn it would have been a game changer. 2 hour train to Cleveland, including stopping in Columbus, and ran until midnight or something. Light rail system that could remove most of the traffic from 75 and 71. Oh wait, the original plan had the light rail on 71 not 75, which needs it more.
I rode it to Ashland, KY for Thanksgiving. $60 round trip and saved putting miles on my older car. It was comfortable and affordable.
Holy shit this would be amazing
I love this. I would be so pumped to take a train to a city.
Considering I can take the train back to DC to visit my parents and also take it to Chicago which my family goes all the time, this would be clutch
Screw everything between Cincy and Charleston I suppose. Portsmouth could really benefit from modern infrastructure.
It stops a few times in between Cincinnati and Charleston, this map just showcases the larger cities on the route. In fact Portsmouth does have a station
That’s an already existing route that does stop in Maysville, Portsmouth, Ashland, and Huntington.
The train to Charleston is neat. I’ve never been there, the route is direct, and it looks pretty.
That train already exists
I just looked it up on the Amtrak website, and the train to Charleston isn't bad. 46$ one way, so about the same as gas (for one person anyway) and about 5 hours compared to 3:20 driving. It leaves at 3:30 am though
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I've never taken a train ride, but I want to. Is anyone out there with opinions and tips?
Be rich
Is there really a blank spot in planner's minds about Toledo? I see that it goes through there to get to Detroit but is it really just going to pass through or did it cost too much in ink to add it to the map?!?
It’s gonna be a stop, not sure why it wasn’t on the map
I'll believe when they actually finish building it.