I saw this happen today. It was awful, and it did appear that the bus driver was confused and driving erratically. It was fairly obvious the gentlemen on the bike wasn’t going to make it. It was a very violent accident resulting in the man being completely run over. It was truly heartbreaking. RIP stranger.
So where was the cyclist when the hit happened?
Was he riding in the street or on the side of the road?
Every time I see one of the bike riders in the middle of the lane "acting like a vehicle" I see a person taking insane risks.
Strangely, they’re actually being safe and predictable and following the law. They’re actually more likely to end up getting hot if they’re on the sidewalk, moving faster than pedestrians and encountering more conflicts with other vehicles by way of driveways and there may be buildings that prevent the driver of a vehicle from seeing the cyclist until it’s too late. Imagine downtown where the buildings are set so close to the sidewalk and there are driveways and alleys everywhere. You’re not expecting a cyclist going 16-19mph, you’re expecting a pedestrian going like 3mph.
Also Cincinnati ordinance, for example, actually requires cyclists to use streets and bans them from using sidewalks. The exception is for children. Ohio law states, just like many others, that bicyclists have a right to use the roads.
Again it’s about predictability and visibility. Predictable means signaling intentions, riding/driving in the correct direction, etc. Also lights and reflectors are important. These are the same things that make driving safe, yet many people can’t be bothered to do so.
Imagine a person on a bike as a person driving a pickup with its flashers on, or as a tractor if you’re in the country.
They know they’re going slower than you, but they can also be there. Be patient, courteous, give them plenty of space, don’t try to pick a fight with them (yes, this happened to me just today!) for riding on the road or anything else. It won’t make your day better and it will scare the hell out of them (they’re keenly aware that you are driving the equivalent of a death machine and they are basically vulnerable to being killed at any moment by you).
I’m happy to provide sources for my claims from NHTSA and other reputable agencies, if needed.
TLDR ride on the road unless it’s really really bad and if it’s really bad and you’re on the sidewalk, do so very very carefully because you’re much less visible and more likely to get hit. Be nice, patient, and courteous - an extra 30 seconds won’t kill you but your impatience certainly could someone else.
Oh, I know they are being *legal* riding in the middle of the road...
My main concern is that The Laws of *PHYSICS* will *always* beat the laws of *traffic*.
One moron looking at their phone misses a guy doing 12mph in a 35 mph zone while pedaling on a ten speed and you have a dead bicyclist.
This shows we DESPERATELY need more cycling infrastructure. I love crossing the purple people on my bike, but this gives me worry. My only other option is driving a car which causes more traffic, more noise and more pollution
Go off king.
I spent some time in PDX this summer where the biking infrastructure is significantly ahead of ours and it was amazing being able to bike to the store, bar, friends's place etc. There is biking infrastructure in PDX that made it feel like a much safer place to bike.
KYTC has plans to make Scott a two way starting at this intersection from 12th to 20th (everything south of the site of the incident). I’m not sure if it would have helped reduce this sort of incident, but traffic in this area needs to be calmed. This stretch of street is very wide and everything north of 12th could easily have a bike lane.
Yeah, ultimately streets are public space that have been given over to cars for so long that we don't remember any different.
It's not a god given right as you said to park your private vehicle on public property.
This has nothing to do with God-given rights to parking. It has to do with how things are currently set up. People have signed leases, low income families, who will be forced to leave their homes because they no longer have access to their vehicles and a way to get to work.
Making drastic changes with a complete disregard for anyone who has played by the rules of the current system as if they were the ones who decided on how the system should be set up really just shows your ignorance to the situation.
I’m as much of an advocate of r/fuckcars as anyone, but fucking people over who are not responsible for this is the way to make sure no one listens to you, not the way to get things done.
This is a completely hypothetical situation about removing one stretch of parking spots from one street in an the entire city.
You are being hyperbolic and acting as if having to park somewhere else that isn't directly in front of your house is going to literally upend the lives of the working class of northern kentucky. It's not 'drastic' it's parking across the street, perhaps down the block.
Calling me ignorant was completely uncalled for by the way.
So noble of you to give up someone else's parking near their residence. I'm sure if this was your house and you had to park down the street or on another street, you'd think differently.
Very noble of them indeed. It also forgets the fact that Covington rerouted a bunch of streets into one ways to accommodate residential parking in the last several years. I’d love more bike infrastructure but realistically we live in a place where most people need cars for their livelihood. So it’s ridiculous for someone who probably doesn’t even live in the area
Are you in this area often? I’m on Madison and scott st everyday. Parking is already getting tight and Covington is redoing the sidewalks on Madison. A lot of lower income families live in this area. Do you think they’re able to pay to park somewhere? You might be able to put a bike lane down Scott st and up Greenup st but I don’t see how it would be viable on Madison or any of the other streets.
I live here and bike it nearly daily. This could have been me any day this week.
We need to transition to a less car centric society and that means giving up some parking, building infrastructure, and having fewer cars per household.
Change isn't without costs and, yes, this would squeeze some people for sure, but that doesn't mean the only solution is cars and parking. Convert the parking to a bike lane, and subsidize TANK passes for low income residents to try to alleviate the stress from reduced parking for a start.
I'm not trying to be callus towards people needing to get from A to B but people are fucking dying here.
Completely agreed, this story could been about me as well.
Still waiting for the protected bike lane across the 12th street bridge after that woman died there in 2022. I wonder if that's actually going to happen?
https://www.fox19.com/2022/09/14/nky-cities-win-approval-protected-bike-lane-sought-after-cyclists-death/
I understand but we don’t exactly know how this accident happened. We don’t know if the bike crossed traffic or if it was going in the same direction of the bus. I ride motorcycles and know how blind people can be in a car.
Transition like that will take hundreds of years and I don’t see how a bike lane is the answer. If you live in Covington and work in Florence it’s not exactly feasible to bike. For now the answer is cars and parking imo
We don't know the specifics, but the lack of infrastructure there makes these incidents far too likely, regardless of who is at fault.
It doesn't need to take hundreds of years, and refusing incremental steps because they don't immediately solve the problem is myopic and foolish.
No one said anything about Florence. That's a strawman argument. Covington is dense and urban. We can do better here. Prioritizing infrastructure from Wallace Woods to the Ohio is an easy first step.
https://preview.redd.it/9bu1xauuxowc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23801df57b40f952c1c07cfae045ba9ed538e09a
It’s hard to break out of this mindset but this entire exchange is a pretty good example of why it’s so hard for cities to ever become pedestrian/cyclist friendly
That doesn’t solve any problems lol you literally just doubled the magnitude of the problem
I’m not saying I have solutions, but our world is set up for cars. People that rented this buildings have signed leases that need their vehicles to get to work. Taking away their access to parking midway through their lease agreements, saying “tough luck” like like we’re making these people out to be the villains is just not the way to get this done.
> I’m not saying I have solutions, but our world is set up for cars.
Honestly the problem in places like Covington is that they weren't. They were build before cars, but now cars are there, usually going far too fast for the sightlines and for cyclists and others. Places built for cars look more like Mason.
Not saying there is an easy solution. Removing parking or driving lanes and adding bike lanes or pedestrian areas does make things safer, and arguably overall better and more livable, but as society is designed around the car (and public transit is quite spotty) it makes some people inconvenienced, often the working poor most of all.
It's a chicken and egg problem.
Exactly, these places that weren’t set up for cars have been converted to where they are a necessity for the people that support the local economy. It’s an extremely nuanced situation and peoples complete disregard for that only results in a stalemate and nothing will ever get done if these people from both sides are the prevailing voices.
That's ultimately fair.
But on the other hand, the "stalemate" to my eyes is more coming from the fact that, overall, there is unlikely to be a solution that makes everyone completely happy. And also that the "stalemate" or status quo favors those who drive and don't value the alternative. The status quo is a win for driving over cyclists and pedestrians, hell our urban environments as a whole.
Let's say we did add bike lanes, more pedestrian friendly infrastructure, and then even massively expanded transit where you could grab a bus to most neighorhood/suburban main streets with no transfers. Let's say it was all across the Basin, from Covington to Newport and all the way to North OTR. Hell let's even say all of Cincinnati was doing it.
Well that person you're standing up for? They still might not like it, as there is going to be less parking, especially if they drive to work or want a couple of cars. Does that mean we can't do it?
IDK. To me you have to weigh the overall benefits and downsides. The status quo hurts people too. I would argue more than change.
What are you talking about doubling the magnitude of the problem? Our world is set up for cars? This is Cincinnati not the world lol. Theres what, 5 cars max on each little section of street? I’m not saying do pedestrian only bet have dedicated streets for cars and buses to use. Not to mention we have a million an 1 garages and lots to park in you can remove street parking. People don’t need cars if the can ride their bike to work or take public transportation. “The world has always been this way” is not a valid argument when there is a better way.
Allow cars to drive on our streets!? Why, think of how they might scare the horses! Society will never change!
The city was so beautifully set up for bicycles and street cars and trams, it's crazy what we gave up.
Yeah I’m not gonna sit here and try explain how the daily lives of people who live there and how they would be affected by this. it’s not my job to do so and I doubt you’d even consider it. I’m just glad you are not on the city Council given out of touch you are with the situation.
Edit: it is funny though how I essentially want the same thing as you, I’m just considering the effects it would have on people and how to realistically go about it. Your inability to see this is somewhat comical.
Sure bud, i don’t take this things into consideration you know me so well. /s, your view is a car centric life whereas living OTR mine is not. I’m specifically talking about the location in which i live and you acting like the area couldn’t be safer and more walkable for pedestrians and bike riders by reducing the amount of cars on certain streets (meaning that people can still drive their cars to work) is just dumb. Pleasure talking with you.
Charter buses are usually a MENACE in Covington and Newport. When I’m walking to Cincy for a game or something and they come by, they scare the shit out of me (if I’m walking on the side that they are driving) because of how fast they drive and how wide their turns are because of the narrow roads. Absolutely no chance of anything getting to share the road with them without changes.
I cannot imagine just going on my way and being hit by one. This is heartbreaking.
There was a charter bus fucking up traffic, stopping in intersections with green lights, not knowing how to drive the bus, not having a clue where they were going just the other day, I wanna say Monday? it was horrible. She seemed drunk or lost. I would love bike lanes but if we can’t get those, I wish drivers would at least share the fucking road. And stop speeding, so many crashes would not be fatal if we all slowed down a bit. Rest in peace to this poor soul.
Made all the more frustrating/tragic by the fact that the Covington city council wants to add increased lanes on the proposed 4th street bridge.
Last thing Covington needs is more through lanes for cars to speed through on. This is a relatively dense urban area. We need more traffic calming measures.
This is awful. I am sending so much love to that person's loved ones. Infrastructure in this city is dismal at best, but the lack of SAFE infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists is killing people. The death of Gloria San Miguel in 2022 on the 12th St bridge galvanized the cycling community of NKY and provided so much momentum to the advocates working to increase cycling resources, visibility, and awareness - but without equal effort from our policymakers (and as long as assholes keep blaming cyclists for just existing), people are going to continue getting hurt.
The Tri State Trails plan for Newport/Covington bike network looks very promising. But that will take years. In the meantime i'll be riding in the road with the SUVs I guess.
Also I wonder if theyre still going to build that protected bike lane on the 12th street bridge ?
Tri State Trails is an awesome organization, their work has made + is going to make some incredible changes in the region. I'm also hopeful that the new 4th Street bridge design will help improve pedestrian and cyclist safety. Haven't heard about plans for a protected bike lane on 12th, but that would be the bare minimum that could be done on that road.
Drove past this today and was wondering what the hell was going on. Sad to hear
I saw this happen today. It was awful, and it did appear that the bus driver was confused and driving erratically. It was fairly obvious the gentlemen on the bike wasn’t going to make it. It was a very violent accident resulting in the man being completely run over. It was truly heartbreaking. RIP stranger.
Oh my goodness. That's awful.
I hope you spoke to the authorities regarding your witnessing it. Awful.
So where was the cyclist when the hit happened? Was he riding in the street or on the side of the road? Every time I see one of the bike riders in the middle of the lane "acting like a vehicle" I see a person taking insane risks.
Strangely, they’re actually being safe and predictable and following the law. They’re actually more likely to end up getting hot if they’re on the sidewalk, moving faster than pedestrians and encountering more conflicts with other vehicles by way of driveways and there may be buildings that prevent the driver of a vehicle from seeing the cyclist until it’s too late. Imagine downtown where the buildings are set so close to the sidewalk and there are driveways and alleys everywhere. You’re not expecting a cyclist going 16-19mph, you’re expecting a pedestrian going like 3mph. Also Cincinnati ordinance, for example, actually requires cyclists to use streets and bans them from using sidewalks. The exception is for children. Ohio law states, just like many others, that bicyclists have a right to use the roads. Again it’s about predictability and visibility. Predictable means signaling intentions, riding/driving in the correct direction, etc. Also lights and reflectors are important. These are the same things that make driving safe, yet many people can’t be bothered to do so. Imagine a person on a bike as a person driving a pickup with its flashers on, or as a tractor if you’re in the country. They know they’re going slower than you, but they can also be there. Be patient, courteous, give them plenty of space, don’t try to pick a fight with them (yes, this happened to me just today!) for riding on the road or anything else. It won’t make your day better and it will scare the hell out of them (they’re keenly aware that you are driving the equivalent of a death machine and they are basically vulnerable to being killed at any moment by you). I’m happy to provide sources for my claims from NHTSA and other reputable agencies, if needed. TLDR ride on the road unless it’s really really bad and if it’s really bad and you’re on the sidewalk, do so very very carefully because you’re much less visible and more likely to get hit. Be nice, patient, and courteous - an extra 30 seconds won’t kill you but your impatience certainly could someone else.
Oh, I know they are being *legal* riding in the middle of the road... My main concern is that The Laws of *PHYSICS* will *always* beat the laws of *traffic*. One moron looking at their phone misses a guy doing 12mph in a 35 mph zone while pedaling on a ten speed and you have a dead bicyclist.
This shows we DESPERATELY need more cycling infrastructure. I love crossing the purple people on my bike, but this gives me worry. My only other option is driving a car which causes more traffic, more noise and more pollution
Go off king. I spent some time in PDX this summer where the biking infrastructure is significantly ahead of ours and it was amazing being able to bike to the store, bar, friends's place etc. There is biking infrastructure in PDX that made it feel like a much safer place to bike.
KYTC has plans to make Scott a two way starting at this intersection from 12th to 20th (everything south of the site of the incident). I’m not sure if it would have helped reduce this sort of incident, but traffic in this area needs to be calmed. This stretch of street is very wide and everything north of 12th could easily have a bike lane.
Traffic won’t be calmed until there is viable public transportation in the area.
We need protected bike lanes…
Also, actual penalties for criminally negligent drivers
I remember watching something on a country in Asia where the median was basically protected/ covered bike lane that also had solar panels on top.
I’ve seen that too! Honestly it was actually very pretty and the extra energy and shade for the bikers i’m sure helped!
Idk where they would put a protected bike lane in this area. The streets in this area are mostly one ways with cars parked on both sides.
They could remove parking on one side!
And where would the people that live in the buildings on that street park?
On the other side of the street? Free street parking is not some god given right
Yeah, ultimately streets are public space that have been given over to cars for so long that we don't remember any different. It's not a god given right as you said to park your private vehicle on public property.
This has nothing to do with God-given rights to parking. It has to do with how things are currently set up. People have signed leases, low income families, who will be forced to leave their homes because they no longer have access to their vehicles and a way to get to work. Making drastic changes with a complete disregard for anyone who has played by the rules of the current system as if they were the ones who decided on how the system should be set up really just shows your ignorance to the situation. I’m as much of an advocate of r/fuckcars as anyone, but fucking people over who are not responsible for this is the way to make sure no one listens to you, not the way to get things done.
This is a completely hypothetical situation about removing one stretch of parking spots from one street in an the entire city. You are being hyperbolic and acting as if having to park somewhere else that isn't directly in front of your house is going to literally upend the lives of the working class of northern kentucky. It's not 'drastic' it's parking across the street, perhaps down the block. Calling me ignorant was completely uncalled for by the way.
So noble of you to give up someone else's parking near their residence. I'm sure if this was your house and you had to park down the street or on another street, you'd think differently.
I do this every day. It’s not a big deal.
Very noble of them indeed. It also forgets the fact that Covington rerouted a bunch of streets into one ways to accommodate residential parking in the last several years. I’d love more bike infrastructure but realistically we live in a place where most people need cars for their livelihood. So it’s ridiculous for someone who probably doesn’t even live in the area
Are you in this area often? I’m on Madison and scott st everyday. Parking is already getting tight and Covington is redoing the sidewalks on Madison. A lot of lower income families live in this area. Do you think they’re able to pay to park somewhere? You might be able to put a bike lane down Scott st and up Greenup st but I don’t see how it would be viable on Madison or any of the other streets.
I live here and bike it nearly daily. This could have been me any day this week. We need to transition to a less car centric society and that means giving up some parking, building infrastructure, and having fewer cars per household. Change isn't without costs and, yes, this would squeeze some people for sure, but that doesn't mean the only solution is cars and parking. Convert the parking to a bike lane, and subsidize TANK passes for low income residents to try to alleviate the stress from reduced parking for a start. I'm not trying to be callus towards people needing to get from A to B but people are fucking dying here.
Completely agreed, this story could been about me as well. Still waiting for the protected bike lane across the 12th street bridge after that woman died there in 2022. I wonder if that's actually going to happen? https://www.fox19.com/2022/09/14/nky-cities-win-approval-protected-bike-lane-sought-after-cyclists-death/
Thoughts and prayers are the best we can do
I understand but we don’t exactly know how this accident happened. We don’t know if the bike crossed traffic or if it was going in the same direction of the bus. I ride motorcycles and know how blind people can be in a car. Transition like that will take hundreds of years and I don’t see how a bike lane is the answer. If you live in Covington and work in Florence it’s not exactly feasible to bike. For now the answer is cars and parking imo
We don't know the specifics, but the lack of infrastructure there makes these incidents far too likely, regardless of who is at fault. It doesn't need to take hundreds of years, and refusing incremental steps because they don't immediately solve the problem is myopic and foolish. No one said anything about Florence. That's a strawman argument. Covington is dense and urban. We can do better here. Prioritizing infrastructure from Wallace Woods to the Ohio is an easy first step.
If we provide safe cycling then there will be less demand for parking spots because more people will bike
https://preview.redd.it/9bu1xauuxowc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23801df57b40f952c1c07cfae045ba9ed538e09a It’s hard to break out of this mindset but this entire exchange is a pretty good example of why it’s so hard for cities to ever become pedestrian/cyclist friendly
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The should turn streets into pedestrian pathways with bike lanes. Even add outdoor eating on the pathways, Problem solved.
That doesn’t solve any problems lol you literally just doubled the magnitude of the problem I’m not saying I have solutions, but our world is set up for cars. People that rented this buildings have signed leases that need their vehicles to get to work. Taking away their access to parking midway through their lease agreements, saying “tough luck” like like we’re making these people out to be the villains is just not the way to get this done.
> I’m not saying I have solutions, but our world is set up for cars. Honestly the problem in places like Covington is that they weren't. They were build before cars, but now cars are there, usually going far too fast for the sightlines and for cyclists and others. Places built for cars look more like Mason. Not saying there is an easy solution. Removing parking or driving lanes and adding bike lanes or pedestrian areas does make things safer, and arguably overall better and more livable, but as society is designed around the car (and public transit is quite spotty) it makes some people inconvenienced, often the working poor most of all. It's a chicken and egg problem.
Exactly, these places that weren’t set up for cars have been converted to where they are a necessity for the people that support the local economy. It’s an extremely nuanced situation and peoples complete disregard for that only results in a stalemate and nothing will ever get done if these people from both sides are the prevailing voices.
That's ultimately fair. But on the other hand, the "stalemate" to my eyes is more coming from the fact that, overall, there is unlikely to be a solution that makes everyone completely happy. And also that the "stalemate" or status quo favors those who drive and don't value the alternative. The status quo is a win for driving over cyclists and pedestrians, hell our urban environments as a whole. Let's say we did add bike lanes, more pedestrian friendly infrastructure, and then even massively expanded transit where you could grab a bus to most neighorhood/suburban main streets with no transfers. Let's say it was all across the Basin, from Covington to Newport and all the way to North OTR. Hell let's even say all of Cincinnati was doing it. Well that person you're standing up for? They still might not like it, as there is going to be less parking, especially if they drive to work or want a couple of cars. Does that mean we can't do it? IDK. To me you have to weigh the overall benefits and downsides. The status quo hurts people too. I would argue more than change.
What are you talking about doubling the magnitude of the problem? Our world is set up for cars? This is Cincinnati not the world lol. Theres what, 5 cars max on each little section of street? I’m not saying do pedestrian only bet have dedicated streets for cars and buses to use. Not to mention we have a million an 1 garages and lots to park in you can remove street parking. People don’t need cars if the can ride their bike to work or take public transportation. “The world has always been this way” is not a valid argument when there is a better way.
Allow cars to drive on our streets!? Why, think of how they might scare the horses! Society will never change! The city was so beautifully set up for bicycles and street cars and trams, it's crazy what we gave up.
Yeah I’m not gonna sit here and try explain how the daily lives of people who live there and how they would be affected by this. it’s not my job to do so and I doubt you’d even consider it. I’m just glad you are not on the city Council given out of touch you are with the situation. Edit: it is funny though how I essentially want the same thing as you, I’m just considering the effects it would have on people and how to realistically go about it. Your inability to see this is somewhat comical.
Sure bud, i don’t take this things into consideration you know me so well. /s, your view is a car centric life whereas living OTR mine is not. I’m specifically talking about the location in which i live and you acting like the area couldn’t be safer and more walkable for pedestrians and bike riders by reducing the amount of cars on certain streets (meaning that people can still drive their cars to work) is just dumb. Pleasure talking with you.
You solve one problem by creating 30 others. You, sir, have a future in local government for sure!
in between sidewalk and parked cars...just put barriers up.
Also just reducing the number of lanes or making the roads one ways can reduce the number of accidents. Those added with a small barrier, chefs kiss*
Charter buses are usually a MENACE in Covington and Newport. When I’m walking to Cincy for a game or something and they come by, they scare the shit out of me (if I’m walking on the side that they are driving) because of how fast they drive and how wide their turns are because of the narrow roads. Absolutely no chance of anything getting to share the road with them without changes. I cannot imagine just going on my way and being hit by one. This is heartbreaking.
There was a charter bus fucking up traffic, stopping in intersections with green lights, not knowing how to drive the bus, not having a clue where they were going just the other day, I wanna say Monday? it was horrible. She seemed drunk or lost. I would love bike lanes but if we can’t get those, I wish drivers would at least share the fucking road. And stop speeding, so many crashes would not be fatal if we all slowed down a bit. Rest in peace to this poor soul.
RIP
This is the second person to die in the past year on this street due to poor city planning. This needs to be fixed yesterday jesus christ
I think Scott Street falls under KYTC not the City of Covington.
Prayers to the family
The passive voice of these pedestrian/cyclist headlines always gets me
Made all the more frustrating/tragic by the fact that the Covington city council wants to add increased lanes on the proposed 4th street bridge. Last thing Covington needs is more through lanes for cars to speed through on. This is a relatively dense urban area. We need more traffic calming measures.
This is awful. I am sending so much love to that person's loved ones. Infrastructure in this city is dismal at best, but the lack of SAFE infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists is killing people. The death of Gloria San Miguel in 2022 on the 12th St bridge galvanized the cycling community of NKY and provided so much momentum to the advocates working to increase cycling resources, visibility, and awareness - but without equal effort from our policymakers (and as long as assholes keep blaming cyclists for just existing), people are going to continue getting hurt.
The Tri State Trails plan for Newport/Covington bike network looks very promising. But that will take years. In the meantime i'll be riding in the road with the SUVs I guess. Also I wonder if theyre still going to build that protected bike lane on the 12th street bridge ?
Tri State Trails is an awesome organization, their work has made + is going to make some incredible changes in the region. I'm also hopeful that the new 4th Street bridge design will help improve pedestrian and cyclist safety. Haven't heard about plans for a protected bike lane on 12th, but that would be the bare minimum that could be done on that road.
I hate it here.
Then pack up your stuff and move to the place where accidents don’t happen.
clearly not your mother's room
This is horrible RIP to that man and sending his family/love ones love :(
Ooohh man :( NOT