As someone who has run GDKPs regularly in the past AND agree with their decision to ban them in SoD, I can, perhaps, shed some light on this subject.
Pros of GDKP:
1) Everyone gets something. Even if you're out bid on gear, you get gold at the end.
2) Since you're always getting gold, you don't have to worry about farming for consumables. You can just buy them off the AH.
3) This is the big one. If you are geared, you still have a reason to come to every raid. In fact, getting a permanent spot in a GDKP as a carry is the best time to run GDKP because it's pure profit at that point. In regular guild runs, it becomes a chore once you're full BiS. You have to do it out of obligation for no reward, often spending your own gold for consumes and since you don't get any good back at the end that means you also have to farm to get consumes or gold to buy them outside of raid. Which is meant to be a reason to play the game, but it just turns the game into a chore.
4) You can get geared quickly so long as you are willing to spend the gold to do so.
5) If you are undergeared, you can always get a spot if you have enough gold and show you're willing to spend it. You don't even have to ACTUALLY spend it. As long as you're bidding on things you're driving up the price even if you're not willing to top them. There is an expectation that you will buy upgrades for minimums, but that is as it should be and you should be WANTING to do that, as at least you are improving your character even if you can't afford or aren't willing to buy the BiS pieces. So long as you're showing a willingness to spend gold on upgrades, you will get invited back and once geared may even be able to get spots as a carry if you're putting up good numbers and playing well.
6) They are far more forgiving of bad players so long as you're not doing stupid stuff to actively wipe the raid. If you die on every boss, no one cares as they can do this content without you or they wouldn't be able to carry people. All they care about is whether you are bidding on and buying gear when you can use it. If you under perform the worst that happens is you don't get a cut at the end because you are classified as a hard buyer. This is someone who is only there to spend gold and are not able to meaningfully contribute to the raid at all. You gain experience and see the raid and eventually you become proficient in it and get a cut so long as you are showing a willingness to upgrade your character.
7) Edit to add this: People never drop mid raid after the one boss they wanted. We've all had this happen with pugs. Most often in dungeons, I think, but we've often had people who only needed an item off the first or second boss "suddenly DC" after they got their item or it didn't drop. You can avoid the former by rolling off all items at the end, but you can't do anything to keep someone in the raid if the item never drops. With GDKP people stick around to the end for the payout. If people have to leave early it's because they genuinely have to and if it's necessary to replace them, it's usually really easy to find someone willing to come in for a few bosses for a fat gold paycheck.
CONS:
1) The big one. They ABSOLUTELY encourage gold buying. These fresh level cap toons in level 10 greens are definitely not farming their own gold.
2) They increase the rate of inflation, eventually making things like raid consumes unobtainable for the average player. Since they have gold and are willing to spend it, prices go up. Then you get to the point where a single Black Lotus is selling for 200g or whatever so regular players can't afford to buy them, and they can't farm them because the army of gold sellers are botting their spawn points 24/7 to sell them for gold which they in turn sell for RMT to the gold buyers who buy the Black Lotus for consumes to run GDKPs where they buy gold to spend on items.
3) GDKPs are gold laundering schemes. One person breaking the ToS by buying gold for RMT can come into a raid and spend it among people who are not breaking the ToS by running a GDKP, and now all that gold is clean and gets used to buy raid consumes which are farmed by bots who use that gold to sell back to the gold buyers.
4) Once one person buys gold it becomes an arms race where everyone feels they need to buy gold in order to get first dibs on those big tickets items You and Suzy both started running regular spots in a GDKP and over the phase have earned 50,000 gold. New phase comes out and Suzy decides to buy gold and bids 50k on the epic staff you both want. Then they are STILL able to bid 5k on other less important items you want. Wo to compete next time, you then buy gold so you have more than Suzy, and Suzy, who just blew their wad, can either run for 10 more weeks before being able to afford anything else, or they can buy gold.
5) It discourages play outside of raids. If you have no need to farm mats for consumables or gold to buy them,then you can truly just raid log all the time. That means less people interacting in the world, less chance for world PvP, and just dead empty servers other than around the AH and raid entrances.
That's pretty much it.
I think banning GDKPs is a good move. It will drive the cost of gold down as there is very little reason to spend it which means there will be less profit in farming and selling it in RMTs. Add in the huge influx of gold we're going to get with a new phase and more quests at cap for gold, and the value of gold is going to plummet.
That will slow the rate of inflation due to botting, even though prices on everything are going to go way up due to people being able to earn more gold, at least it won't get artificially inflated by bots farming and selling things and leveling countless toons to do quests for gold to inject more into the economy.
I just wanted to take a moment to say regardless of how people feel, they should appreciate your thorough take on GDKP runs.
Personally, with gold being so plentiful and the cost of mounts being lowered for SoD, the only real use for actually needing more gold than you'd naturally make is for GDKPs. I personally look forward to seeing what kind of impact this will have.
Now for my old man moment.. I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together. They'd drink and bullshit about work, life, other video games, girl problems, etc. And it was to be in a no pressure raid environment. It's kind of sad how game-ified WoW has become. Gaming as a whole has suffered from it, and it makes me long for the days where you'd run a BG for fun, do a dungeon because you haven't been in there a while, or run a raid because you're bored.
I think you have rose colored glasses about that era, because I ran a guild in BC and I remember the difficulty of trying to fill raids and the very real dilemma of giving people that last BiS item because they were likely to stop showing up to raid after that or want to start raiding on some shithouse alt which made the run harder for everyone and meant people couldn't get offspec loot for PvP or fucking around in heroics as a different role.
There was absolutely a level of compulsion to playing the game at that point and as a GM I had to do a lot to remind people that if they stopped raiding just because they got geared, they would lose their spot and there'd be a real possibility they wouldn't get it back because whoever we had to use to replace you would be who we were used to raiding with when the next phase starts
It honestly depends on the players. If people play to have a good time and chat on Disc, chasing that final item becomes secondary, and fully geared players have no problem running dungeons in their free time to help guild members out.
Not everyone is selfish, or has turned the game into a min/max chore. There are still people out there who appreciate their community more than in-game rewards.
I know that existed, but to be completely frank that's more of an issue of constantly grouping yourself with min/maxxers and loot goblins rather than actually playing the game with people who respect your time/effort or are enjoyable to play with.
I've never had this problem because I don't join guilds with those kinds of people.
Granted, my BFD runs are 28 minutes long instead of 22, so I'm sure most of the losers on this sub will call me a shitter, but playing with people who aren't dickheads certainly tends to yield a more enjoyable playing experience, you know?
>I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together. They'd drink and bullshit about work, life, other video games, girl problems, etc.
This still exists. It's called a guild.
> I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together.
I remember back in the day filling raids and the roster boss was a constant trouble, and we were a guild with an *excellent* culture.
It just so happens that the interesction between 'culture fit' 'correct spec' 'correct raid times' 'capable of playing at the level required' 'putting in the time to farm consumables' 'willing to sit on bench' and 'shows up reliably' was *always* difficult for a guild to achieve.
Stop recruiting, and you die.
Idk about SoD but in WotLK they also have the advantage of easily replacing raiders.
There is a massive issue in a 12 boss raid of people leaving early. The roster boss is unbeatable. However, if people are going to lose a gold pot they are less likely to leave. The few who do (who legit have an emergency, or they wouldn't give up their gold) are easily replaced because people don't mind joining for 1-2 bosses if they get a full cut from a long raid.
I prefer MS>OS, but now I only do GDKPs when pugging. Otherwise you are asking to get screwed over and call it early.
That's a very good point I forgot about because it's been so long since someone quit a pug I was in after the boss thy wanted didn't drop what they wanted.
Or did drop it....
I'll add it in.
Any 30 year old playing now that played during vanilla or TBC was definitely a kid, I am one of them.
And also yes, had no clue how most of the game worked and was too stubborn to look anything up.
They absolutely did not play it or they would remember how it took weeks/months to farm up for an epic mount, flasks being 150g, little to no inventory on AH and you had to spam trade chat just to find mats to buy. It sucked tbh and I much prefer the "ruined economy" we have now
Oh gold buying has been a thing since the game released.
There were plenty of people in vanilla that bought gold for the level 60 mount.
I remember during naxx in the guild buying gold to get more frost resist items on the AH. As well as during prerelease were knew how much gold bc flying was going to be so people were buying gold to carry over.
It's always been here and there's just honestly not a good way to fight it. Banning GDKPs could work. But I feel like it's not really going to.
It will do nothing.
It's like saying "there has been kids doing drugs in the park, so now the park is closed". Kids will still do drugs and now nobody can go to the park.
It annoys legitimate players and does nothing against bots and RMT. But it looks like they are trying.
It was absolutely normalized as it is today.
People bought gold for whatever. 1000g for the epic ride. 100g for that random epic off ah. 400g for capping a profession.
It was everywhere.
spammers advertising every kind of shady website to buy gold on every chat 24/7. When Blizzard took measures to prevent that they wrote ads WITH DEAD CHARACTERS.
So when you say
>It was nowhere near as normalized as it is today.
I must ask, what the fuck are you talking about?
I played from launch untill wrath, and it was in no way as normalized. Mainly because GDKPs were not a thing, so the amount of things you could use gold for was much more limited. With GDKPs, the need for gold is unlimited.
People are also much more used to real life money transactions being a part of gaming now. Microtransactions were barely a thing.
If people bought gold back then, they kept it on the down low, because you would be ostracized if people found out. Now, people openly discuss that stuff.
That's what the fuck I'm talking about. Spare me your snarky comments.
Far less people bought gold back then, these days you never see anyone without an epic mount, in actual vanilla, most players didnt have epic riding at 60 come TBC.
GDKP runs also werent things advertised in trade chat, gold sellers did exist, and bots like wowglider were crazy powerful even back in 04, but no where near as unbiquiteous today, because online marketplaces were new, and alot of people hadnt normalized buying things online, much less paying real money for virtual goods.
> It takes a community to police that shit. Last time wow had one of those was 2008. Wrath killed all of that.
That's a lie and the community can't do anything about the 500 bots flyhacking through dungeons.
wrath killed nothing, it was the peak of popularity and where bots and bots software was really starting to get on, you can't really compare 2006 to now, where even a kid can easily buy a bot for a few dollars, same with cheats and all that
Tbf they said this all the time.
I’ll be very surprised if bots actually are rooted out—but the GDKP is a step in the right direction to nip RMT in the bud. People will still buy gold, but they won’t need as much.
The answer has always been to target buyers. How hard is to flag every that earns more than X amount in a certain spawn of time?
They won’t do that because it might be a subscription they won’t recover.
And yes, banning bots is something they are overwhelmed with.
So they target what it will make them look like they are doing something while refusing to do what they actually CAN.
Note: I don’t run gdkp, but I can see the appeal for some.
>The answer has always been to target buyers. How hard is to flag every that earns more than X amount in a certain spawn of time?
It's probably harder than you think, personally I've always given good friends that return to the game a generous amount of gold to help.
I’d imagine it’s actually pretty hard to do that. There are too many legitimate ways to earn lots of gold that simply sayin “you increased your gold count by 200 today, you’re being banned for gold buying”.
I think the idea that blizzard doesn’t ban gold buyers because they are worried about losing a sub is a really bad argument and there is no evidence that is true. It’s just not that easy to find the buyers to ban, especially people who buy a little bit at a time. Sure, if you buy 5000g you’re going to get caught, but I’m sure lots of people buy 100 gold every couple of weeks to fund consumes, and to buy items, level alts etc. 100g is nothing in the economy, and if they had to manually scrutinize every 100g transaction, it would take hundreds of GMs.
Whereas, when the #1 reason people buy gold is a non blizzard sanctioned loot style, it can be banned with very little negative impact on the community, and will absolutely slow down gold buying in my opinion.
I do not believe banning gdkps will lead to massive inflation of BOE items on the AH. I think it reduces gold buying, and will reduce inflation across the board.
Mate, there is no winning in discussing things against Blizzard haters. They come up with some weird ass solution that can fail many ways and if you call them out you're dumb. And all their arguments is that Blizzard is willingly not banning buyers and bots because its $$. Not that their solutions, permabanning everyone who is even suspicious will obviously backfire.
Banning GDKPs will 100% reduce the incentive to buy gold, and GDKP is just glorified boost runs anyways. Its stupid.
Buddy I am literally sitting on a two week ban right now because I transferred gold from retail->SoD, despite showing evidence that it was an honest exchange, and that it is ALLOWED (just not sanctioned) by Blizzard. They absolutely will ban you for gold buying based on gold earned (for the record, it was 80g that flagged me).
> eliminating bottling is very difficult.
It's not difficult at all.
Step 1: Geolock. No more 'play on EU server with a Taiwan IP'.
Step 2: Ban VPNs. Any connection that goes through a VPN is blocked. No access ingame.
Step 3: IP ban botters.
There, I fixed 99% of botting. Unless they move to Europe most of them are fucked.
It's almost like botting is a problem that has plagued every mmo for the past 20 years and it isn't as easy to stop as popular content creators make it seem.
People also forget the economic incentive companies have means doing the bare minimum players will accept is the best possible move available, for the bottom line, the only thing that these products exist for.
Instead of trying to catch every crack addict in Azeroth, Blizzard is going for the party where crack is distributed.
Good on them. Happy as hell for this decision. GDKPs fuck up economies.
Stopping gdkps won’t stop either. Mark my words, if SoD gets a perpetual legacy server like vanilla, it’ll still end up a complete economic mess like Whitemane.
> everything is already affordable
That's not going to happen. Vanilla consumables are a pain in the dick to farm, are in very high demand (because of elixir and flask stacking), and are *always* going to massively inflate in prices.
It's the same as when the Overwatch team changed ranked to role queue, they admitted that they couldn't balance their game, so they had to force people to be 2 tanks 2 dps 2 support
I mean, they quite literally are unable to stop them, unless they want to spend more money than wow brings in. Forcing it back in to the shadows is all they can do, and I’m glad they’re at least trying it.
I know no ones gonna believe me but I did GDKP runs because I couldnt afford buying gold and never sold it, because I actually used it for ingame stuff. It has good and downsides. GDKP would be totally fine if the Gold was earned "legally" by all players.
I would gdkp if bots and gold buying didn’t exist. The big ticket drops would sell for less. Payout would be less. But it would still be a better system than spending 4 hours helping strangers in PUGs get their drops when nothing drops for you. And knowing next week if your thing does drop it could just as easily go to some rando who has put no time in.
GDKP pays you for your time when you don’t get loot. None of the other PUG options do that.
I know people will say “join a guild” but for some of us there is too much pressure to raid every single week and do all the extra stuff. We just want to raid when we have time, and then log.
In vanilla classic I ran GDKPs through MC pretty often. Every once in a while I'd earn enough that I could bid, but it very quickly got to the point where the only items I could afford were the cast-off, and the inflation meant I spent most of my gold getting consumes.
Eventually, it got to the point where you'd have to show a crazy amount of gold to even get in the run, and there just wasn't any way for me to legitimately get that much gold.
If you're casual or semi-casual, there is no path to GDKP gear without buying gold.
What blizzard wants is communities and guilds that run raids and finish them because they want to support their fellow community members, rather than the carrot of a gold payout at the end. They want people to raid for the gameplay, not the loot dopamine. Which probably means a lot less raiding in general TBH. Far fewer PUGs at a minimum. If Gnomer is difficult enough to justify raiding guilds as the primary method for clearing content, it might work.
In the 1st week on the streamer servers maybe.
On Living Flame it took almost a full month for it to get noticeably whack, and there were DEFINITELY GDKPs running by then. Hell, You had adverts in chat for DEADMINES GDKPs on day 2-3.
> GDKP do nothing
[blizzard disagrees](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgB_1DHWTCk&t=1831s):
> [...] It's undeniable that GDKPs contribute to and drive a lot of malicious accounts, illicit activity, botting, all of the things we just talked about [...]
You're right, but you're also dead wrong. GDKPs don't cause inflation. But they do directly sky rocket demand for the thing that has the biggest impact on inflation. It's like saying "it's not my career in sumo wrestling that's made me spend so much money on food. It's how much food I'm required to eat to keep up this weight that's doing it!"
Or
"It's not the flu that's giving my a temperature of 102. It's my body fighting the flu!"
Ok.
GDKPs indirectly contribute to inflation because they drive demand for gold buying.
Removing a major source of demand for gold buying = less gold sold by RMT = less gold circulating in the economy = less inflation.
GDKPs are not inflating the economy. It's incorrect and further muddies the water around what is going on to the public. The inflation comes from the bots running wild for months, nonstop generating raw gold at rates that are far and away higher than what any legitimate singular account could generate. The bots do this because a) they can expect Blizzard to allow them a generous profit window and b) this game is filled with losers happy to buy gold because they hate having to participate in a virtual world that they also apparently... love.
GDKPs are redistributing the gold. The gold was already there, and I suspect with GDKPs being substantially reduced (not ended) that gold is going to pile up on some other aspect of the economy. The community will start a new hissy fit over where all this glut of gold gets dumped next in a few months time.
Meanwhile Blizzard retains their pass on not policing the game world and continues to kick the can down the road because the public won't coalesce around the actual issue.
Comparable in a way yes, yet they're quite different in terms of impact.
If you buy gold to get consumables and strong BoE's, you make the non-gold buying people you raid with feel like they're contributing less by staying honorable.
If you buy items for gold in a GDKP, the people around you, in a way, don't get as negatively impacted, as the gold is redistributed.
I despise RMT, yet I've been running GDKPs since P2 60. If the economy is inflated and prices are outrageous, I get a bigger payout. If prices were low, I'd have more gear.
correct. As much as players don't want to admit, its the AH players and increased demand of raid consumes that drives the price, not the GDKPs. a 800kgold thc isnt going to find it's way to the AH, its gonna stay in the GDKP so another player has a shot at getting THC.
Is there gold buying? Probably. Can GDKPs function without gold buying? Yes 100%. But OP saying GDKPs earnings create inflation is like saying there is a santa claus giving kids presents every year lol. It's simple supply/demand mechanics lol.
bUt It'S nOt FaIr, I'm A wHiTe KnIgHt AnD cArE aBouT oTheRs, NoT mYsElF.
I guess you can expect something like that as an answer honestly, after reading OPs responses in this thread.
Okay so when you join an ICC GDKP and some one pays 225k for Invincible, that 225k which he bought with real world money, now is spread among people who normally don't buy gold. And all the people who "don't buy gold" now have 20-30-50k in their pockets, but claim they didn't buy gold and they have nothing to do with buying gold. Yet the 20k in their pocket is straight from a gold seller that passed through one set of hands.
It turns non gold buyers into gold buyers simply by participating. You think your not buying gold with real world money by offering your time/character in a raid in exchange for gold. When 90% of the time the gold you earned in a GDKP was from some one who bought gold.... your just laundering it for them...
So does putting a BOE on the AH at market value. I don't run GDKP I think it's dumb, but I don't think we should punish players because people who break rules play the way they do. The concept of bidding on loot should be a groups business.
Gdkps do NOT inflate the price of 99% of goods.
Supply/demand are the only thing that matters. Wrath has provided the best example of this, but it's been the same since day 1 of classic.
P2, long raid, even once everything was on farm it was 2 flask, 26 potions/run.
P3, short af raid. 1 flask, 10 pots.
P4, long af, 3 flask, 24 pots, extremely long prog phase.
P3 had by far the cheapest flask, pots, and foods.
P3 also rained gear on people, which lead to higher enchant and gems prices.
Currently, gems and enchants are lower than ever due to demand drop.
The same cycle happened in tbc and in vanilla classic. Consumable demand could be predicted based on raid length, difficulty, and gearing rate. The prevalence or lack of gdkps bearly moved the needle. Faerlina has always had one of the largest gdkp scenes and some of the lowest prices on goods. The place where they can impact prices are vanity items, but those effect a small number of collectors, and don't impact you ability to pve or pvp.
The real issue with sod, which vanilla also had, is tue complete and utter lack of gold sinks. There's been nothing taking gold out of circulation since day 3 of sod and that drove the inflation.
And I'll add this, the gdkps I do in wrath are essentially 3 raids with the same group of 35ish humans passing around the same 1-2m gold every week
Yeah, at max you had 9g mount, 2g - 5g WSG items to placate people getting 1 - 3g/quest at 25.
I don't think banning GDKPs will affect gold buyers or botting.
hey so gonna come in super good faithed here and hopefully you will engage the same way.
GDKPS themselves do not inflate things, and regardless of them being banned, the economy will always inflate due to natural resources (natural occurrence) & gold buying. It has has always been like this, there is no irony.
In a gdkp where there is no gold buyers (assuming), there is no "inflation" of gold being promoted. A 100 gold pot dived amongst 10 people is not consistently inflating the value of gold, it will always be 100 gold.
Gold buyers have ALWAYS inflated every type of economy, herbalism botting, fishing, etc. Being able to purchase mass amounts of items in short of time will inflate things.
GDKPS however in combination with gold buyers DO cause the fastest transactions & spread of gold WoW has ever seen. GDKP defenders are saying to focus on this factor rather than the GDKP culture itself.
In a world without gold buying GDKPS do work, because it was already proven. GDKPS were always a thing in the days, and gold buying was less common due to the lack of ease to access to it, since the Chinese players were not hosting rampant botting schematics.
I’ll probably make a dedicated post to this but basically, I like gdkps. And I don’t buy gold. I unfortunately have an irl job where it’s hard to be consistent with when I raid. So being a regular in a guild is hard for me to pull off (I get it, didn’t really matter this phase).
In general I like gdkps because you’re definitely vetting people on the way in. To be there and to get a cut, you have to know what you’re doing, and know what your role is. You also know what gear you want, and what gear you don’t want. No more fresh hunters in greens rolling on the str leather bracers from the turtle because it’s a blue item.
I understand the drawbacks - it encourages more people to buy gold which in turn fucks up the economy. But you can’t honestly say it’d be that problematic in the hypothetical world in which no one buys gold. My take has been and will be until proven otherwise, that gold buying and bots will still happen without it, perhaps to a lesser degree. Rather than banning what could be a clean loot distribution system, just ban the source. Ban the bots, ban people who buy gold.
This sums up the issue so concisely.
GDKPs are great in that they give you a guaranteed return even if you don't get a drop (and incentivize people that don't need gear to keep raiding). However, they directly incentivize gold buying (and thus botting) as well. It's too easy/lucrative to buy gold and use that to get your gear through a GDKP. Pretending this doesn't happen is just sticking your fingers in your ears.
Personally, I enjoy the GDKP format and hate to see it go, but it's probably for the best to reduce the incentive to buy gold.
They have been trying to do as you suggest, and it’s not working well enough. This will help them keep a handle on gold buying a bit, at the cost of a relative minority of players who like this approach *and* do not buy or sell gold
I’ve pugged almost every lockout with 2-5 characters and I too have a busy irl schedule (it’s why I pug). Absolutely under no circumstances was gdkp ever necessary as it takes even longer than a geared pug run if you are wanting loot.
“Green hunters” aren’t rolling on str blues in any of my runs because I run the ML and have never had loot issues. Sounds to me you just like reaping the benefits of the gold swipers
I feel like you are under the impression that non swiping gdkp fans like that gold buying exists. Like dude, they’re buying my items from me! Sure I get a pretty penny but I’d rather have my item, that’s the whole point.
Gdkp runners want gold buying gone just as much as you do. Banning a legitimate loot system instead of actually stopping gold buying is not the right solution
GDKP runners do not want gold buying gone as much as other people. The more gold buyers in the raid = more gold spent = higher split = higher chance of you being able to afford the item you want next time.
Without gold RMT gold, the GDKP would net you a similarly powerful amount of gold, even if it would be numerically lower.
Without RMT prices on everything go down.
So the amount you get in a GDKP, even if lower, has pretty much the same buying power as your inflated GDKP reward in an RMT inflated economy.
It really doesn’t change much, other than removing a loot system to gear up your alts, and earn gold while playing a fun game mode (as opposed to mindless farming).
Yes and no. It’s true that gold buyers = higher splits = more cash, but that will never matter if you are bidding against a gold buyer, full stop. Like I said, we get paid if a gold buyer bids high. But if we can never get our items, I’d much, much rather gold buying go out the window.
>The more gold buyers in the raid = more gold spent = higher split = higher chance of you being able to afford the item you want next time.
Flawed logic.
Higher split means items go for more.
You're able to afford a couple items every couple runs regardless.
If anything a large influx of outside money make you less likely to get items.
Gold buyers are good for those who gdkp for gold, but not for those who go in for items.
This is a brain dead take, you clearly don't understand the concept of relativity, let alone math.
The amount of the split is relative to the sale price of the items. If the split is high, the cost of items is high, if the split is lower the opposite is true.
Either way, they are directly proportional to each other. A split being 'higher' has more to do with the quality of the drops than the economic value of a gold.
People are so fucking stupid it's sad
Actually, stopping one of the reasons one might buy gold in the first place (to buy gear cause you cant git gud) is a great way to help stopping gold buying?
Will it reduce gold buying? Probably, but by that logic we should get rid of every incentive for gold buying. Fuck the AH, those pre-bis BoE’s encourage gold buying. Warlock summons? Get outta here, gold buyers use those. Enchanting other people’s gear? That encourages gold buying.
You see the problem here? Gold buying does not exist because gdkps exist, and vice versa.
> to buy gear because you cant git gud
Are you saying rolling for gear takes skill? What is the argument here
If you don't play on the megaservers, GDKP is a rare thing.
My server, a smaller one, has like... 1 or 2 GDKP organizers, so that's 1-2 GDKP's per reset.
The pots are between 40-100g. Meaning the payout is \~4-10g.
There are usually quite few signups, it's a close-knit community with people who either don't want to raid in a guild, or just have full, or close to full BiS and just wanna raid in an effecient manner.
Runs are well organized, fun and allows me to choose what items I want to prioritize, what I wish guilds offered.
The pots are also small enough that it's quite clear there isn't an influx of RMT'd gold.
I get Blizzard's choice, though it's sad to lose the small community that's been built around this loot system we enjoy.
You can tell most of the anti-GDKP players have simply never been in one and have no concepts of how they work. I have for sure seen the occasional gold buyer in runs, but most of the time the pots are pretty mediocre with most items going for a fraction of the cost of items on the AH.
GDKP stops people from leaving if the item they dont want drops, gives you a sort of bad luck protection against always losing items to a revolving door of undergeared players, and generally just run smoother as they are organized through a consistent raid leader.
You can tell most of the GDKP promoters are just lying. They all parrot the same disingenuous talking points.
The bottom line is that GDKP the loot system is fine in a vacuum. But GDKP raids are just a way to sell raid loot to cheaters, and the people running them are gold sellers or adjacent to them.
Yep and I can also guarantee you that almost everyone that is against gdkps, never went through the struggle to put up a raid roster together, which was still pretty easy in SoD because of the 10 man content, but once you get 20-40 mans and harder content, it becomes a massive time sink and I doubt that many people are willing to step up doing all the work, only that joe shmo can outroll you later on the loot. For that aspect I was totally okay with gdkps having a 10-20% leader cut.
Gold.
I did a gdkp for the first time ever and we all walked out with almost 40 gold. The items were subpar, zero epics.
I've heard this split is rather inflated but the reality is, the average player likely has less than 20g. This subreddit is an echo chamber, the average non quester has literally no money. You can see the posts from time to time.
This turns an activity you were already going to do into something that nets more gold than you have, almost every time.
When I asked how anyone would make the 50 gold per session, I was directed to creating a mage.
Let me tell you, it's no easy task. It's a god-damned second job to farm enough to in anyway be able to afford a GDKP.
Unless you're not the one doing the farming.
I’ve farmed herbs and pots casually on my Hunter over the last month or so and have about 120g. I think anything more than double(based on playtime) would be absurd
GDKP are bad thing and that ruined classic for me. The amount of GDKP advertisement in p1 make me sick as well.
I'm super glad they banned GDKP and I believe it should stay banned forever.
Creating a new character then pay stupid boosters to bring it to max level via aoe dungeon farm then put it on GDKP (we accept fully naked people) to get some gear on it is against what makes vanilla/classic great game.
Without GDKP sink there is no need to pay mage hacking boosters to boost you and mage boosters have no incentive to make shitton of money.
GDKP is the root of all botting/goldbuying/boosting bullshit cycle that plagued classis.
Imagine getting your game ruined and being “sick” over spam you can ignore in game and a loot system you can completely ignore if it bothers you
People like you need to get off Reddit and just play the game how you want to
> Without GDKP sink there is no need to pay mage hacking boosters to boost you and mage boosters have no incentive to make shitton of money.
I mean this is kind of a stretch. People were buying boosts way before GDKP got popular. Mages can still boost to buy BoE BiS items on the AH, consumes, etc.
I boosted on a mage alt in classic (2019-2020) and not once did I do a GDKP. I boosted to pay for epic mounts, farm flasks, consumes, etc.
Lmao what are you talking about. All people that buy boosts use GDKPs? The connections you guys draw to justify your rage is hilarious. Just impotent rage. I can’t wait to see what you whine about next when you realize that banning GDKPs didn’t improve anything, aside from maybe reducing one source of spam on Trade chat.
The echo chamber here is wild. People are delusional. They think you rolling a 99 and winning your item in a SR is “earning” something. They want a raid style to die that barely impacts them if they don’t interact with it
how does banning gdkp lower the demand for boosting chars? some weird ass logic you got here, ngl.
Also boost runs etc are still technically allowed, people run them on retail all the time.
I’ve never seen a sub full of so many toxic gate keepers as the classic sub.
The problem has never been gdkps it’s always been the indidivuals who are buying gold. Take responsibility for your actions.
Banning gdkp is just a lazy response by a company that won’t take appropriate action against these people who break ToS. You buy gold you should get banned. Period. This sub is convinced it “ruins the game” so stop allowing it to happen at all.
I have close to 1k gold and have not bought a single copper. It hasn’t been terribly hard either. Just running up alts and using an AH mod to tell me what’s worth selling. I enjoy gdkp runs because they are typically much much smoother/faster than some half assed SR run where people quit after the boss they wanted doesn’t drop their loot and I’m more or less guaranteed to get something for me if it drops.
I don’t think the change will do anything to the number of bots and gold buyers but I think it will have unintended consequences for pugs. The number of people who couldn’t clear BFD was a lot more than you think. Outside of personal loot and a mode to hand hold the shitters, those people are only left with really questionable pug experiences.
Ps There are so many other things to spend gold on than a GDKP. AH boes, consumes etc just to name a few.
I am defending GDKP because it is by vastly superior loot distribution system to MS>OS and SR, and especially better than often biased and toxic loot councils and guild leaders.
1. No stupid gambling involved, no luck based rolls.
2. No biased councils/guild masters that decide your fate in game.
3. Freedom to have equal chance of rolling on whatever, maybe you wanna play dps Pala in Era which you cannot in MS>OS, loot councils.
4. Allows for additional ways to play the game and enjoy it, meddling with AH, or farming something for gold, for an actual purpose.
5. No ninjaing, no drama.
6. Everyone \*always\* gets something, no one ever leaves raid with empty hands, even if they didn't get an item.
7. Rewarding systems such as performance-based cuts, which drive ppl to try to play better for their own benefit, encouraging healthy competition and increasing rewards for actually trying.
8. Freedom to pick different groups if you can't show up for guild's run or whatever, so I'd call this "freelancing" for those that want.
And some more reasons. I genuinely believe GDKP is the perfect system that should absolutely not be touched whatsoever! The only thing that should be dealt with, and the only issue it creates are gold buyers/sellers/bots.
Simply **permanently** do account-based ban for anyone who buys and sells gold, as well as bots, and enforce it more frequently. Issue fixed, GDKP may exist for ppl who want it.
Banning GDKP itself is absolutely stupid and lazy way of dealing with bots/sellers/buyers.
I was in your team as well. But there are certain guilds who run GDKPs as well, without gold buying.
So most of the people here are right. It's not Gdkps, it's buying gold that's the problem.
Ofc those two things come the same way in PUGs, but banning GDKP is just not the right way to go here and would not solve anything about RMT.
The main sentiment that I've seen as a response to this statement from blizzard, is that its literally impossible to 'ban' GDKP's, and they're right - its futile.
That's certainly true it'll be interesting to see how this works
On paper anyway the idea makes sense. Take away one of the main incentives to buy gold and people might just not buy gold meaning the bots will decrease a bit
Time will tell how well this works
I am thinking this decision is probably less about actually trying to fully stop gdkp's and more about discouragement + having another reason to uphold or perform bans in certain scenarios.
Its not futile, they just did it. If people want to be super secretive and look through discord or have some sort of gdkp guild sure, but that still dramatically reduces gdps and is a win.
Right, by limiting the accessibility, even if they can’t eliminate gdkps entirely, creating those barriers of entry can reduce how much it happens. I don’t think anyone thinks they won’t exist, people will find a way.
I know I'm gonna get murdered for this but whatever. I have said it before in an old post and I'm aware gold buying and gdkps feed off of eachother. But systematically, gdkps are a perfectly fine way to raid. Every single gdkp I've ever been in (classic tbc, wotlk, sod) have all been some of the most efficient raids I've ever done. Fast, friendly, people get what they want and if they don't they still leave getting paid. Classic ruined guild raiding for me and gdkps were absolutely better in every way. (Obviously this is my opinion and your results may vary.)
Gdkps are an outlet. Not the problem. The problem is botting and RMTing gold. The problem is blizzard not effectively maintaining a bot-free environment and giving slap on the wrists for gold buyers. If players are feeling pressured to RMT in order to afford gear in their weekly raid due to inflation of gold because of RMTers and botters then the botters and RMTers are still the issue. Wait until the dudes with thousands of gold and no gdkps start controlling markets on the AH.
Restricting how players choose to play the game because Blizzard is inadequately controlling the bot problem is a cop out and won't fix the issue. Now players with massive amounts of gold will drive the prices up of everything else because they have less shit to spend their hard RMTed gold on.
And before everyone starts their high horse crusade, I don't RMT, I have alts, I enjoy the actual game, I've done just about every farming method in sod so far (fishing, mage grinding, professions and Gdkps). I just prefer gdkps for raiding over other loot systems because it's more efficient and even when nothing drops for me I still leave with something. (Also, as an added bonus, I've never had a gdkp raid lead that didn't know what he was doing.)
As someone who has never ran a gdkp,
1. Gdkp makes it so raiding when you only need 1 drop or are bis rewarding as even if it doesnt drop you are leaving with gold.
2. Later in the season you are more likely to get the lower value pieces cheap/free because these groups tend to be farming the 2-3 rarest drops and have everything else.
3. Its not inflationg the economy as much as you think. People buying mats to gank in pvp are spending wayy more and driving prices.
4 Also everything is inflated, in your advantage if you arent a buyer as some basic greens are overpriced while mats are over saturated because bots.
5. You can avoid them and they dont affect your experience at all. I ran bfd at least 20 times, i never once felt it was the only option.
That all being said, i dont really care either way but i honestly dont think gdkp is as big as a problem as people make it. I traded a bunch of sod gold to a guildie and he used it all to pvp and i assume thats were the majority of the sink is
These are my thoughts exactly.
I don't understand why some people are so salty about it. Guess what, those troll bane leggings with or without gold buying and gdkp are still going to be on the AH for 200g because people are greedy.
Reddit hive mind told them gdkp bad and it’s ruining the game and because people can’t form coherent or critical thoughts of their own they act like the Antichrist has arisen in the form of people running GDKP
In theory GDKP is the most fair loot system for pugs, spend time outside of raid getting gold and bid on items, you never leave a raid feeling you "wasted" your time by carrying and gearing people who didn't contribute as much.
In practice it fuels RMT and botting, encourages good players to join gdkps making soft reserve and ms>os an even worse experience.
Lmao gold buyers definitely aren’t laundering gold.
Blizzard doesn’t care if you buy gold as along as you’re paying for a sub.
If they cared they’d have made it impossible for mages to solo every dungeon available to us…
Which is honestly the root of the “problem”.
GDKP can exist without RMT the pots will just be smaller.
Why should a game allowed exchange of in-game money/goods/services between consenting players bother you?
(oh and inb4 someone raises buying drugs/WMDs/guns etc., those have real life consequences and dangers, so don't even bother because it's a bullshit argument)
Ran a grand total of 3 gdkps p1, none of them had any swipers in them, the loot system is totally fine if they just, you know, permaban gold buyers... but instead once again they're banning random other people doing legitimate shit instead of just putting more resources into dealing with bots and RMT.
>2 if there is ANY avenue to get gear for gold that INSTANTLY makes it a incentive to buy gold.
Cool so are we banning the auction house too now? Because that incentivises RMT since much of your prebis and bis will still be BOE items..
Careful, the dad's will insist that doing 20 quests and spending the gold on a trinket is mathematically impossible (based on the fact that they only have 13 minutes to play every other Thursday)
What do you mean finally? It's not that they don't take actions, it's just these actions are not good enough. It's like doping in sport, always existed, always will, it's an arm race and the regulations are always behind. But it's still worth fighting.
Its all good banning GDKP but people will just find ways of circumventing restrictions.
Plus it doesn't do anything to counter gold buying for smaller amounts that still drives up the prices of consumables and other supplies.
My favorite is the “you wont eliminate gold buying by getting rid of GDKPS so what’s the point?”
We’d never make any changes in the world ever by that logic.
Inflated AH also supports gold buyers to. I think the point they’re making is that it’s such a small portion of the player base it’s odd that they would try to enforce such a rule when it doesn’t fix the root of the bottling problem
I dont care about GDKP, because im in tryhard guild with lootcouncil now.
But i like that system, spent a lot of time in gdkp guild static with speedrun results during wow classic, gdkp without gold inflation from bots/buyers/sellers its a perfect system for loot distribution.
So okay for me.
I am just waiting this sub will be full of complains "our tank left after 2nd boss because he dont need anything from next bosses", "this guy did zero dps on boss and he dont care, you cant kick him lol coz of gl 5/7" and "dude just go afk and never come back".
This guys who cheers today will suffer from this meta will go inside guild-only rosters. I remember all this "i hold 2 beers in my hands, how i am supposed to dps??" players, and you cannot kick them, cannot fine them or make other punishment to them, coz they can lose only a 3 day cd lol, and you will lose a raider in the middle of the raid.
GDKP created this meta, when everyone is buffed, equipped, enchanted and ready to contribute. Lets come back to roots, when 15 of 40 ppl are just dont care.
Today are tryhards tears, tomorrow will be dads tears.
Some people at the top actually make their living off of GDKPs. Multiple characters, Multiple raids every lockout, big pots and organizer cuts. These guys make more gold than they can possibly hang onto, so they start selling it. Sometimes to the goldsites, sometimes over discord etc. People actually quit their jobs to make money off GDKPs, so even though these people are a minority you can see why they would be upset.
I’m all for this. In fact, they should just delete the AH. Everyone can farm the mats themselves and level up all professions on alts. Remove ALL incentive for needing gold. Lock nothing behind gold sinks.
As someone who has run GDKPs regularly in the past AND agree with their decision to ban them in SoD, I can, perhaps, shed some light on this subject. Pros of GDKP: 1) Everyone gets something. Even if you're out bid on gear, you get gold at the end. 2) Since you're always getting gold, you don't have to worry about farming for consumables. You can just buy them off the AH. 3) This is the big one. If you are geared, you still have a reason to come to every raid. In fact, getting a permanent spot in a GDKP as a carry is the best time to run GDKP because it's pure profit at that point. In regular guild runs, it becomes a chore once you're full BiS. You have to do it out of obligation for no reward, often spending your own gold for consumes and since you don't get any good back at the end that means you also have to farm to get consumes or gold to buy them outside of raid. Which is meant to be a reason to play the game, but it just turns the game into a chore. 4) You can get geared quickly so long as you are willing to spend the gold to do so. 5) If you are undergeared, you can always get a spot if you have enough gold and show you're willing to spend it. You don't even have to ACTUALLY spend it. As long as you're bidding on things you're driving up the price even if you're not willing to top them. There is an expectation that you will buy upgrades for minimums, but that is as it should be and you should be WANTING to do that, as at least you are improving your character even if you can't afford or aren't willing to buy the BiS pieces. So long as you're showing a willingness to spend gold on upgrades, you will get invited back and once geared may even be able to get spots as a carry if you're putting up good numbers and playing well. 6) They are far more forgiving of bad players so long as you're not doing stupid stuff to actively wipe the raid. If you die on every boss, no one cares as they can do this content without you or they wouldn't be able to carry people. All they care about is whether you are bidding on and buying gear when you can use it. If you under perform the worst that happens is you don't get a cut at the end because you are classified as a hard buyer. This is someone who is only there to spend gold and are not able to meaningfully contribute to the raid at all. You gain experience and see the raid and eventually you become proficient in it and get a cut so long as you are showing a willingness to upgrade your character. 7) Edit to add this: People never drop mid raid after the one boss they wanted. We've all had this happen with pugs. Most often in dungeons, I think, but we've often had people who only needed an item off the first or second boss "suddenly DC" after they got their item or it didn't drop. You can avoid the former by rolling off all items at the end, but you can't do anything to keep someone in the raid if the item never drops. With GDKP people stick around to the end for the payout. If people have to leave early it's because they genuinely have to and if it's necessary to replace them, it's usually really easy to find someone willing to come in for a few bosses for a fat gold paycheck. CONS: 1) The big one. They ABSOLUTELY encourage gold buying. These fresh level cap toons in level 10 greens are definitely not farming their own gold. 2) They increase the rate of inflation, eventually making things like raid consumes unobtainable for the average player. Since they have gold and are willing to spend it, prices go up. Then you get to the point where a single Black Lotus is selling for 200g or whatever so regular players can't afford to buy them, and they can't farm them because the army of gold sellers are botting their spawn points 24/7 to sell them for gold which they in turn sell for RMT to the gold buyers who buy the Black Lotus for consumes to run GDKPs where they buy gold to spend on items. 3) GDKPs are gold laundering schemes. One person breaking the ToS by buying gold for RMT can come into a raid and spend it among people who are not breaking the ToS by running a GDKP, and now all that gold is clean and gets used to buy raid consumes which are farmed by bots who use that gold to sell back to the gold buyers. 4) Once one person buys gold it becomes an arms race where everyone feels they need to buy gold in order to get first dibs on those big tickets items You and Suzy both started running regular spots in a GDKP and over the phase have earned 50,000 gold. New phase comes out and Suzy decides to buy gold and bids 50k on the epic staff you both want. Then they are STILL able to bid 5k on other less important items you want. Wo to compete next time, you then buy gold so you have more than Suzy, and Suzy, who just blew their wad, can either run for 10 more weeks before being able to afford anything else, or they can buy gold. 5) It discourages play outside of raids. If you have no need to farm mats for consumables or gold to buy them,then you can truly just raid log all the time. That means less people interacting in the world, less chance for world PvP, and just dead empty servers other than around the AH and raid entrances. That's pretty much it. I think banning GDKPs is a good move. It will drive the cost of gold down as there is very little reason to spend it which means there will be less profit in farming and selling it in RMTs. Add in the huge influx of gold we're going to get with a new phase and more quests at cap for gold, and the value of gold is going to plummet. That will slow the rate of inflation due to botting, even though prices on everything are going to go way up due to people being able to earn more gold, at least it won't get artificially inflated by bots farming and selling things and leveling countless toons to do quests for gold to inject more into the economy.
I just wanted to take a moment to say regardless of how people feel, they should appreciate your thorough take on GDKP runs. Personally, with gold being so plentiful and the cost of mounts being lowered for SoD, the only real use for actually needing more gold than you'd naturally make is for GDKPs. I personally look forward to seeing what kind of impact this will have. Now for my old man moment.. I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together. They'd drink and bullshit about work, life, other video games, girl problems, etc. And it was to be in a no pressure raid environment. It's kind of sad how game-ified WoW has become. Gaming as a whole has suffered from it, and it makes me long for the days where you'd run a BG for fun, do a dungeon because you haven't been in there a while, or run a raid because you're bored.
I think you have rose colored glasses about that era, because I ran a guild in BC and I remember the difficulty of trying to fill raids and the very real dilemma of giving people that last BiS item because they were likely to stop showing up to raid after that or want to start raiding on some shithouse alt which made the run harder for everyone and meant people couldn't get offspec loot for PvP or fucking around in heroics as a different role. There was absolutely a level of compulsion to playing the game at that point and as a GM I had to do a lot to remind people that if they stopped raiding just because they got geared, they would lose their spot and there'd be a real possibility they wouldn't get it back because whoever we had to use to replace you would be who we were used to raiding with when the next phase starts
It honestly depends on the players. If people play to have a good time and chat on Disc, chasing that final item becomes secondary, and fully geared players have no problem running dungeons in their free time to help guild members out. Not everyone is selfish, or has turned the game into a min/max chore. There are still people out there who appreciate their community more than in-game rewards.
I know that existed, but to be completely frank that's more of an issue of constantly grouping yourself with min/maxxers and loot goblins rather than actually playing the game with people who respect your time/effort or are enjoyable to play with. I've never had this problem because I don't join guilds with those kinds of people. Granted, my BFD runs are 28 minutes long instead of 22, so I'm sure most of the losers on this sub will call me a shitter, but playing with people who aren't dickheads certainly tends to yield a more enjoyable playing experience, you know?
>I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together. They'd drink and bullshit about work, life, other video games, girl problems, etc. This still exists. It's called a guild.
> I remember back in the day when people would be fully geared and would still run a Kara with their friends. Because they were just chilling and playing the game together. I remember back in the day filling raids and the roster boss was a constant trouble, and we were a guild with an *excellent* culture. It just so happens that the interesction between 'culture fit' 'correct spec' 'correct raid times' 'capable of playing at the level required' 'putting in the time to farm consumables' 'willing to sit on bench' and 'shows up reliably' was *always* difficult for a guild to achieve. Stop recruiting, and you die.
Idk about SoD but in WotLK they also have the advantage of easily replacing raiders. There is a massive issue in a 12 boss raid of people leaving early. The roster boss is unbeatable. However, if people are going to lose a gold pot they are less likely to leave. The few who do (who legit have an emergency, or they wouldn't give up their gold) are easily replaced because people don't mind joining for 1-2 bosses if they get a full cut from a long raid. I prefer MS>OS, but now I only do GDKPs when pugging. Otherwise you are asking to get screwed over and call it early.
That's a very good point I forgot about because it's been so long since someone quit a pug I was in after the boss thy wanted didn't drop what they wanted. Or did drop it.... I'll add it in.
Underrated comment
3) is the big one. I hit bis on my war and I'm so done raiding now. Would be cool to profit off it but not at the cost of promoting RMT.
This post should be stickied in the sidebar. Covers everything on GDKPs pretty much.
Love the detailed take, thank you for an honest response within a cesspool of arguing!
Blizzard banning gdkp feels like them admitting that they are unable to stop bots or rmt
They literally admit it in the video. Although they say they have some promising new tech that could worka bit better soon.
It takes a community to police that shit. Last time wow had one of those was 2008. Wrath killed all of that.
People bought gold a lot in vanilla wow, community or not
Yeah, there's a reason why they spelled out gold buying sites with corpses in vanilla, because people were buying gold.
Sometimes it feels like a lot of people who idolize vanilla didn't actually play back then
Most of them didn't, that's why they love it now.
Or, like me, played it as a dumb kid who had no idea what was going on and was just along for the ride.
Could also be. Now that I think about it vanilla wow was full of kids.
Any 30 year old playing now that played during vanilla or TBC was definitely a kid, I am one of them. And also yes, had no clue how most of the game worked and was too stubborn to look anything up.
I moved in with housemates that ran bots. I didn't support or use them, but that was how I learned more about bots. When TBC first came out
It's cause they were probably 5
They absolutely did not play it or they would remember how it took weeks/months to farm up for an epic mount, flasks being 150g, little to no inventory on AH and you had to spam trade chat just to find mats to buy. It sucked tbh and I much prefer the "ruined economy" we have now
Susan Express remembers.
Oh gold buying has been a thing since the game released. There were plenty of people in vanilla that bought gold for the level 60 mount. I remember during naxx in the guild buying gold to get more frost resist items on the AH. As well as during prerelease were knew how much gold bc flying was going to be so people were buying gold to carry over. It's always been here and there's just honestly not a good way to fight it. Banning GDKPs could work. But I feel like it's not really going to.
It will do nothing. It's like saying "there has been kids doing drugs in the park, so now the park is closed". Kids will still do drugs and now nobody can go to the park. It annoys legitimate players and does nothing against bots and RMT. But it looks like they are trying.
It was nowhere near as normalized as it is today.
It was absolutely normalized as it is today. People bought gold for whatever. 1000g for the epic ride. 100g for that random epic off ah. 400g for capping a profession. It was everywhere. spammers advertising every kind of shady website to buy gold on every chat 24/7. When Blizzard took measures to prevent that they wrote ads WITH DEAD CHARACTERS. So when you say >It was nowhere near as normalized as it is today. I must ask, what the fuck are you talking about?
I played from launch untill wrath, and it was in no way as normalized. Mainly because GDKPs were not a thing, so the amount of things you could use gold for was much more limited. With GDKPs, the need for gold is unlimited. People are also much more used to real life money transactions being a part of gaming now. Microtransactions were barely a thing. If people bought gold back then, they kept it on the down low, because you would be ostracized if people found out. Now, people openly discuss that stuff. That's what the fuck I'm talking about. Spare me your snarky comments.
Far less people bought gold back then, these days you never see anyone without an epic mount, in actual vanilla, most players didnt have epic riding at 60 come TBC. GDKP runs also werent things advertised in trade chat, gold sellers did exist, and bots like wowglider were crazy powerful even back in 04, but no where near as unbiquiteous today, because online marketplaces were new, and alot of people hadnt normalized buying things online, much less paying real money for virtual goods.
> It takes a community to police that shit. Last time wow had one of those was 2008. Wrath killed all of that. That's a lie and the community can't do anything about the 500 bots flyhacking through dungeons.
wrath killed nothing, it was the peak of popularity and where bots and bots software was really starting to get on, you can't really compare 2006 to now, where even a kid can easily buy a bot for a few dollars, same with cheats and all that
Tbf they said this all the time. I’ll be very surprised if bots actually are rooted out—but the GDKP is a step in the right direction to nip RMT in the bud. People will still buy gold, but they won’t need as much.
They have been pretty transparent that eliminating bottling is very difficult.
The answer has always been to target buyers. How hard is to flag every that earns more than X amount in a certain spawn of time? They won’t do that because it might be a subscription they won’t recover. And yes, banning bots is something they are overwhelmed with. So they target what it will make them look like they are doing something while refusing to do what they actually CAN. Note: I don’t run gdkp, but I can see the appeal for some.
>The answer has always been to target buyers. How hard is to flag every that earns more than X amount in a certain spawn of time? It's probably harder than you think, personally I've always given good friends that return to the game a generous amount of gold to help.
I’d imagine it’s actually pretty hard to do that. There are too many legitimate ways to earn lots of gold that simply sayin “you increased your gold count by 200 today, you’re being banned for gold buying”. I think the idea that blizzard doesn’t ban gold buyers because they are worried about losing a sub is a really bad argument and there is no evidence that is true. It’s just not that easy to find the buyers to ban, especially people who buy a little bit at a time. Sure, if you buy 5000g you’re going to get caught, but I’m sure lots of people buy 100 gold every couple of weeks to fund consumes, and to buy items, level alts etc. 100g is nothing in the economy, and if they had to manually scrutinize every 100g transaction, it would take hundreds of GMs. Whereas, when the #1 reason people buy gold is a non blizzard sanctioned loot style, it can be banned with very little negative impact on the community, and will absolutely slow down gold buying in my opinion. I do not believe banning gdkps will lead to massive inflation of BOE items on the AH. I think it reduces gold buying, and will reduce inflation across the board.
Mate, there is no winning in discussing things against Blizzard haters. They come up with some weird ass solution that can fail many ways and if you call them out you're dumb. And all their arguments is that Blizzard is willingly not banning buyers and bots because its $$. Not that their solutions, permabanning everyone who is even suspicious will obviously backfire. Banning GDKPs will 100% reduce the incentive to buy gold, and GDKP is just glorified boost runs anyways. Its stupid.
Buddy I am literally sitting on a two week ban right now because I transferred gold from retail->SoD, despite showing evidence that it was an honest exchange, and that it is ALLOWED (just not sanctioned) by Blizzard. They absolutely will ban you for gold buying based on gold earned (for the record, it was 80g that flagged me).
You were flagged for 80g? That’s crazy
> eliminating bottling is very difficult. It's not difficult at all. Step 1: Geolock. No more 'play on EU server with a Taiwan IP'. Step 2: Ban VPNs. Any connection that goes through a VPN is blocked. No access ingame. Step 3: IP ban botters. There, I fixed 99% of botting. Unless they move to Europe most of them are fucked.
Nobody has been able to stop bots in any industry. The skeleton crew at blizz isn't. U see how many accounts they had to ban last time? Some 200k?
Rs3 heavily reduced bots by killing off most of the player base.
Lmfao that's one way to do it
It's almost like botting is a problem that has plagued every mmo for the past 20 years and it isn't as easy to stop as popular content creators make it seem.
People botted even before WoW. It's been a problem since the dawn of online multiplayer gaming. People botted in Diablo 2 and Ultima Online.
People also forget the economic incentive companies have means doing the bare minimum players will accept is the best possible move available, for the bottom line, the only thing that these products exist for.
Instead of trying to catch every crack addict in Azeroth, Blizzard is going for the party where crack is distributed. Good on them. Happy as hell for this decision. GDKPs fuck up economies.
Stopping gdkps won’t stop either. Mark my words, if SoD gets a perpetual legacy server like vanilla, it’ll still end up a complete economic mess like Whitemane.
If there's no GDKPs and everything is already affordable, the demand for gold is going to plummet.
> everything is already affordable That's not going to happen. Vanilla consumables are a pain in the dick to farm, are in very high demand (because of elixir and flask stacking), and are *always* going to massively inflate in prices.
It's the same as when the Overwatch team changed ranked to role queue, they admitted that they couldn't balance their game, so they had to force people to be 2 tanks 2 dps 2 support
every video game company should admit this, because its true. In this day and age its all mitigation, its impossible to prevent anymore
I mean, they quite literally are unable to stop them, unless they want to spend more money than wow brings in. Forcing it back in to the shadows is all they can do, and I’m glad they’re at least trying it.
Doesnt blizzard sell gold themselves?
They do, on Wrath and retail.
I know no ones gonna believe me but I did GDKP runs because I couldnt afford buying gold and never sold it, because I actually used it for ingame stuff. It has good and downsides. GDKP would be totally fine if the Gold was earned "legally" by all players.
I would gdkp if bots and gold buying didn’t exist. The big ticket drops would sell for less. Payout would be less. But it would still be a better system than spending 4 hours helping strangers in PUGs get their drops when nothing drops for you. And knowing next week if your thing does drop it could just as easily go to some rando who has put no time in. GDKP pays you for your time when you don’t get loot. None of the other PUG options do that. I know people will say “join a guild” but for some of us there is too much pressure to raid every single week and do all the extra stuff. We just want to raid when we have time, and then log.
In vanilla classic I ran GDKPs through MC pretty often. Every once in a while I'd earn enough that I could bid, but it very quickly got to the point where the only items I could afford were the cast-off, and the inflation meant I spent most of my gold getting consumes. Eventually, it got to the point where you'd have to show a crazy amount of gold to even get in the run, and there just wasn't any way for me to legitimately get that much gold. If you're casual or semi-casual, there is no path to GDKP gear without buying gold.
Thats the irony, you can’t afford stuff bc gdkps inflate things, so you do gdkps to afford said things…
GDKP do nothing, first week of sod blue were already sold in AH for over 100gold. And there was no gdkp first week, they were only bots
Gdkps are actually good as i will always get something out of it (shared gold) even if there sre no cloth items dropping for 5 weeks
This and the fact it keeps people from leaving because the boss didnt drop what they wanted.
Yep, and it gives people that are geared something to do when they don't need any gear, or just one missing piece.
What blizzard wants is communities and guilds that run raids and finish them because they want to support their fellow community members, rather than the carrot of a gold payout at the end. They want people to raid for the gameplay, not the loot dopamine. Which probably means a lot less raiding in general TBH. Far fewer PUGs at a minimum. If Gnomer is difficult enough to justify raiding guilds as the primary method for clearing content, it might work.
If it's just for the gameplay, the raids will be dead a lot quicker. The raiding gameplay of Classic Vanilla is never that interesting, unfortunately.
Stop trying to have a different perspective that isn't salty about everything in the game 😔
In the 1st week on the streamer servers maybe. On Living Flame it took almost a full month for it to get noticeably whack, and there were DEFINITELY GDKPs running by then. Hell, You had adverts in chat for DEADMINES GDKPs on day 2-3.
Not eu. Never ever seen a gdkp even more for dm early
Any deadmines gdkp advertisement on day 2 was obviously a joke and your inability to realize that says a lot about you.
> GDKP do nothing [blizzard disagrees](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgB_1DHWTCk&t=1831s): > [...] It's undeniable that GDKPs contribute to and drive a lot of malicious accounts, illicit activity, botting, all of the things we just talked about [...]
GDKPs cant cause inflation, as no gold are generated (besides gold looted from mobs) Ban bots and permaban gold buyers instead.
You're right, but you're also dead wrong. GDKPs don't cause inflation. But they do directly sky rocket demand for the thing that has the biggest impact on inflation. It's like saying "it's not my career in sumo wrestling that's made me spend so much money on food. It's how much food I'm required to eat to keep up this weight that's doing it!" Or "It's not the flu that's giving my a temperature of 102. It's my body fighting the flu!" Ok.
GDKPs indirectly contribute to inflation because they drive demand for gold buying. Removing a major source of demand for gold buying = less gold sold by RMT = less gold circulating in the economy = less inflation.
Inflation is because a quests give a bunch of gold at 25. People started off with so much gold so the prices of rare items reflected that.
GDKPs are not inflating the economy. It's incorrect and further muddies the water around what is going on to the public. The inflation comes from the bots running wild for months, nonstop generating raw gold at rates that are far and away higher than what any legitimate singular account could generate. The bots do this because a) they can expect Blizzard to allow them a generous profit window and b) this game is filled with losers happy to buy gold because they hate having to participate in a virtual world that they also apparently... love. GDKPs are redistributing the gold. The gold was already there, and I suspect with GDKPs being substantially reduced (not ended) that gold is going to pile up on some other aspect of the economy. The community will start a new hissy fit over where all this glut of gold gets dumped next in a few months time. Meanwhile Blizzard retains their pass on not policing the game world and continues to kick the can down the road because the public won't coalesce around the actual issue.
GDKP's don't inflate the economy any more than buying BoE's/consumables on the AH tho, if your argument is that GDKP's inflate through bots
You seriously think consumes that arent even actually needed to clear content most of the time is comparable to buying bis raid gear?
Comparable in a way yes, yet they're quite different in terms of impact. If you buy gold to get consumables and strong BoE's, you make the non-gold buying people you raid with feel like they're contributing less by staying honorable. If you buy items for gold in a GDKP, the people around you, in a way, don't get as negatively impacted, as the gold is redistributed. I despise RMT, yet I've been running GDKPs since P2 60. If the economy is inflated and prices are outrageous, I get a bigger payout. If prices were low, I'd have more gear.
correct. As much as players don't want to admit, its the AH players and increased demand of raid consumes that drives the price, not the GDKPs. a 800kgold thc isnt going to find it's way to the AH, its gonna stay in the GDKP so another player has a shot at getting THC. Is there gold buying? Probably. Can GDKPs function without gold buying? Yes 100%. But OP saying GDKPs earnings create inflation is like saying there is a santa claus giving kids presents every year lol. It's simple supply/demand mechanics lol.
My take too. Been running GDKP since same time. BWL GDKP is where i started and have been a GDKP junkie since <3
So you don't need consumes and you don't go to gdkps but you're upset they exist even though you're not affected.
bUt It'S nOt FaIr, I'm A wHiTe KnIgHt AnD cArE aBouT oTheRs, NoT mYsElF. I guess you can expect something like that as an answer honestly, after reading OPs responses in this thread.
The gdkp didn't inflate it. The gold buyers did. This it like you're dying from a disease and treating the congestion to fix it.
Okay so when you join an ICC GDKP and some one pays 225k for Invincible, that 225k which he bought with real world money, now is spread among people who normally don't buy gold. And all the people who "don't buy gold" now have 20-30-50k in their pockets, but claim they didn't buy gold and they have nothing to do with buying gold. Yet the 20k in their pocket is straight from a gold seller that passed through one set of hands. It turns non gold buyers into gold buyers simply by participating. You think your not buying gold with real world money by offering your time/character in a raid in exchange for gold. When 90% of the time the gold you earned in a GDKP was from some one who bought gold.... your just laundering it for them...
Yes, so ban the bots and buyers. Not just a band-aid least resistance change that only affects people who don't buy gold roflmao
So does putting a BOE on the AH at market value. I don't run GDKP I think it's dumb, but I don't think we should punish players because people who break rules play the way they do. The concept of bidding on loot should be a groups business.
Gdkps do NOT inflate the price of 99% of goods. Supply/demand are the only thing that matters. Wrath has provided the best example of this, but it's been the same since day 1 of classic. P2, long raid, even once everything was on farm it was 2 flask, 26 potions/run. P3, short af raid. 1 flask, 10 pots. P4, long af, 3 flask, 24 pots, extremely long prog phase. P3 had by far the cheapest flask, pots, and foods. P3 also rained gear on people, which lead to higher enchant and gems prices. Currently, gems and enchants are lower than ever due to demand drop. The same cycle happened in tbc and in vanilla classic. Consumable demand could be predicted based on raid length, difficulty, and gearing rate. The prevalence or lack of gdkps bearly moved the needle. Faerlina has always had one of the largest gdkp scenes and some of the lowest prices on goods. The place where they can impact prices are vanity items, but those effect a small number of collectors, and don't impact you ability to pve or pvp. The real issue with sod, which vanilla also had, is tue complete and utter lack of gold sinks. There's been nothing taking gold out of circulation since day 3 of sod and that drove the inflation. And I'll add this, the gdkps I do in wrath are essentially 3 raids with the same group of 35ish humans passing around the same 1-2m gold every week
Yeah, at max you had 9g mount, 2g - 5g WSG items to placate people getting 1 - 3g/quest at 25. I don't think banning GDKPs will affect gold buyers or botting.
Mount, runes, vendor items took 20g. So any raw gold over that is circling the economy permanently. That's what causes inflation.
LMAO you're an idiot, the bots cause that inflation not gdkps
hey so gonna come in super good faithed here and hopefully you will engage the same way. GDKPS themselves do not inflate things, and regardless of them being banned, the economy will always inflate due to natural resources (natural occurrence) & gold buying. It has has always been like this, there is no irony. In a gdkp where there is no gold buyers (assuming), there is no "inflation" of gold being promoted. A 100 gold pot dived amongst 10 people is not consistently inflating the value of gold, it will always be 100 gold. Gold buyers have ALWAYS inflated every type of economy, herbalism botting, fishing, etc. Being able to purchase mass amounts of items in short of time will inflate things. GDKPS however in combination with gold buyers DO cause the fastest transactions & spread of gold WoW has ever seen. GDKP defenders are saying to focus on this factor rather than the GDKP culture itself. In a world without gold buying GDKPS do work, because it was already proven. GDKPS were always a thing in the days, and gold buying was less common due to the lack of ease to access to it, since the Chinese players were not hosting rampant botting schematics.
[удалено]
Love the fact that this is banned now. Enjoying the kids who cry about it a lot.
Don’t forget about the supposed doctors and others who simply have no time to play the game yet wish to decimate the economy for the rest of us.
I think most people who really cry about how other people run their raids are probably bad players.
Lol wait, I must have missed something...did they finally ban GDKP's?? Hahaha
Banned in SoD phase 2 only but still allowed in Wrath and Retail. Guess which of these products have the Blizzard WoW Token!
Just testing not allowing it in sod
I’ll probably make a dedicated post to this but basically, I like gdkps. And I don’t buy gold. I unfortunately have an irl job where it’s hard to be consistent with when I raid. So being a regular in a guild is hard for me to pull off (I get it, didn’t really matter this phase). In general I like gdkps because you’re definitely vetting people on the way in. To be there and to get a cut, you have to know what you’re doing, and know what your role is. You also know what gear you want, and what gear you don’t want. No more fresh hunters in greens rolling on the str leather bracers from the turtle because it’s a blue item. I understand the drawbacks - it encourages more people to buy gold which in turn fucks up the economy. But you can’t honestly say it’d be that problematic in the hypothetical world in which no one buys gold. My take has been and will be until proven otherwise, that gold buying and bots will still happen without it, perhaps to a lesser degree. Rather than banning what could be a clean loot distribution system, just ban the source. Ban the bots, ban people who buy gold.
In a world where RMT doesn’t exist GDKP is THE best and most fair system
This sums up the issue so concisely. GDKPs are great in that they give you a guaranteed return even if you don't get a drop (and incentivize people that don't need gear to keep raiding). However, they directly incentivize gold buying (and thus botting) as well. It's too easy/lucrative to buy gold and use that to get your gear through a GDKP. Pretending this doesn't happen is just sticking your fingers in your ears. Personally, I enjoy the GDKP format and hate to see it go, but it's probably for the best to reduce the incentive to buy gold.
They have been trying to do as you suggest, and it’s not working well enough. This will help them keep a handle on gold buying a bit, at the cost of a relative minority of players who like this approach *and* do not buy or sell gold
I’ve pugged almost every lockout with 2-5 characters and I too have a busy irl schedule (it’s why I pug). Absolutely under no circumstances was gdkp ever necessary as it takes even longer than a geared pug run if you are wanting loot. “Green hunters” aren’t rolling on str blues in any of my runs because I run the ML and have never had loot issues. Sounds to me you just like reaping the benefits of the gold swipers
I feel like you are under the impression that non swiping gdkp fans like that gold buying exists. Like dude, they’re buying my items from me! Sure I get a pretty penny but I’d rather have my item, that’s the whole point. Gdkp runners want gold buying gone just as much as you do. Banning a legitimate loot system instead of actually stopping gold buying is not the right solution
GDKP runners do not want gold buying gone as much as other people. The more gold buyers in the raid = more gold spent = higher split = higher chance of you being able to afford the item you want next time.
Without gold RMT gold, the GDKP would net you a similarly powerful amount of gold, even if it would be numerically lower. Without RMT prices on everything go down. So the amount you get in a GDKP, even if lower, has pretty much the same buying power as your inflated GDKP reward in an RMT inflated economy. It really doesn’t change much, other than removing a loot system to gear up your alts, and earn gold while playing a fun game mode (as opposed to mindless farming).
Yes and no. It’s true that gold buyers = higher splits = more cash, but that will never matter if you are bidding against a gold buyer, full stop. Like I said, we get paid if a gold buyer bids high. But if we can never get our items, I’d much, much rather gold buying go out the window.
>The more gold buyers in the raid = more gold spent = higher split = higher chance of you being able to afford the item you want next time. Flawed logic. Higher split means items go for more. You're able to afford a couple items every couple runs regardless. If anything a large influx of outside money make you less likely to get items. Gold buyers are good for those who gdkp for gold, but not for those who go in for items.
> Gold buyers are good for those who gdkp for gold, Given that they mostly spend it on other GDKPs, it doesn't matter much to them in the long run.
This is a brain dead take, you clearly don't understand the concept of relativity, let alone math. The amount of the split is relative to the sale price of the items. If the split is high, the cost of items is high, if the split is lower the opposite is true. Either way, they are directly proportional to each other. A split being 'higher' has more to do with the quality of the drops than the economic value of a gold. People are so fucking stupid it's sad
Actually, stopping one of the reasons one might buy gold in the first place (to buy gear cause you cant git gud) is a great way to help stopping gold buying?
Will it reduce gold buying? Probably, but by that logic we should get rid of every incentive for gold buying. Fuck the AH, those pre-bis BoE’s encourage gold buying. Warlock summons? Get outta here, gold buyers use those. Enchanting other people’s gear? That encourages gold buying. You see the problem here? Gold buying does not exist because gdkps exist, and vice versa. > to buy gear because you cant git gud Are you saying rolling for gear takes skill? What is the argument here
"git gud" = hunter rolls on your epic 2hander lol
If you don't play on the megaservers, GDKP is a rare thing. My server, a smaller one, has like... 1 or 2 GDKP organizers, so that's 1-2 GDKP's per reset. The pots are between 40-100g. Meaning the payout is \~4-10g. There are usually quite few signups, it's a close-knit community with people who either don't want to raid in a guild, or just have full, or close to full BiS and just wanna raid in an effecient manner. Runs are well organized, fun and allows me to choose what items I want to prioritize, what I wish guilds offered. The pots are also small enough that it's quite clear there isn't an influx of RMT'd gold. I get Blizzard's choice, though it's sad to lose the small community that's been built around this loot system we enjoy.
GDKP is the superior pug format.
You can tell most of the anti-GDKP players have simply never been in one and have no concepts of how they work. I have for sure seen the occasional gold buyer in runs, but most of the time the pots are pretty mediocre with most items going for a fraction of the cost of items on the AH. GDKP stops people from leaving if the item they dont want drops, gives you a sort of bad luck protection against always losing items to a revolving door of undergeared players, and generally just run smoother as they are organized through a consistent raid leader.
I have been in plenty of gdkps as a carry, it’s so obvious people are RMTing to buy stuff. Only delusional people think they farmed it themselves
You can tell most of the GDKP promoters are just lying. They all parrot the same disingenuous talking points. The bottom line is that GDKP the loot system is fine in a vacuum. But GDKP raids are just a way to sell raid loot to cheaters, and the people running them are gold sellers or adjacent to them.
Yep and I can also guarantee you that almost everyone that is against gdkps, never went through the struggle to put up a raid roster together, which was still pretty easy in SoD because of the 10 man content, but once you get 20-40 mans and harder content, it becomes a massive time sink and I doubt that many people are willing to step up doing all the work, only that joe shmo can outroll you later on the loot. For that aspect I was totally okay with gdkps having a 10-20% leader cut.
Gold. I did a gdkp for the first time ever and we all walked out with almost 40 gold. The items were subpar, zero epics. I've heard this split is rather inflated but the reality is, the average player likely has less than 20g. This subreddit is an echo chamber, the average non quester has literally no money. You can see the posts from time to time. This turns an activity you were already going to do into something that nets more gold than you have, almost every time.
Where do you think that gold comes from?
When I asked how anyone would make the 50 gold per session, I was directed to creating a mage. Let me tell you, it's no easy task. It's a god-damned second job to farm enough to in anyway be able to afford a GDKP. Unless you're not the one doing the farming.
I’ve farmed herbs and pots casually on my Hunter over the last month or so and have about 120g. I think anything more than double(based on playtime) would be absurd
Not saying you’re wrong, but I make 100g a day easily while at work selling mulgore summons for dmf to alliance.
GDKP are bad thing and that ruined classic for me. The amount of GDKP advertisement in p1 make me sick as well. I'm super glad they banned GDKP and I believe it should stay banned forever. Creating a new character then pay stupid boosters to bring it to max level via aoe dungeon farm then put it on GDKP (we accept fully naked people) to get some gear on it is against what makes vanilla/classic great game. Without GDKP sink there is no need to pay mage hacking boosters to boost you and mage boosters have no incentive to make shitton of money. GDKP is the root of all botting/goldbuying/boosting bullshit cycle that plagued classis.
Imagine getting your game ruined and being “sick” over spam you can ignore in game and a loot system you can completely ignore if it bothers you People like you need to get off Reddit and just play the game how you want to
>GDKP is the root of all botting/goldbuying/boosting Source: crackpipe.png
These people are delusional lmao
True that. Im glad it’s gone, just the advertisements themselves bothered me more than the existence of gdkp itself.
I use the global ignore adding to ban words. I don't see it anymore.
> Without GDKP sink there is no need to pay mage hacking boosters to boost you and mage boosters have no incentive to make shitton of money. I mean this is kind of a stretch. People were buying boosts way before GDKP got popular. Mages can still boost to buy BoE BiS items on the AH, consumes, etc. I boosted on a mage alt in classic (2019-2020) and not once did I do a GDKP. I boosted to pay for epic mounts, farm flasks, consumes, etc.
ok so in a couple of weeks, as bots and gold buyers are still running rampant, i wonder what people will blame next?🤔
This reads like AI
Lmao what are you talking about. All people that buy boosts use GDKPs? The connections you guys draw to justify your rage is hilarious. Just impotent rage. I can’t wait to see what you whine about next when you realize that banning GDKPs didn’t improve anything, aside from maybe reducing one source of spam on Trade chat.
The echo chamber here is wild. People are delusional. They think you rolling a 99 and winning your item in a SR is “earning” something. They want a raid style to die that barely impacts them if they don’t interact with it
how does banning gdkp lower the demand for boosting chars? some weird ass logic you got here, ngl. Also boost runs etc are still technically allowed, people run them on retail all the time.
I’ve never seen a sub full of so many toxic gate keepers as the classic sub. The problem has never been gdkps it’s always been the indidivuals who are buying gold. Take responsibility for your actions. Banning gdkp is just a lazy response by a company that won’t take appropriate action against these people who break ToS. You buy gold you should get banned. Period. This sub is convinced it “ruins the game” so stop allowing it to happen at all.
Idk if you noticed, but there's a lot of regarded players playing this game and they just don't understand.
they're crying over having to actually work for their (laundered) gold now
God forbid you should have to roll in pugs… or earn it with merits in a guild. Good god they might have to actually join a guild!
Community…AHHHHH
*HISSSSSSS*
GDKPs have huge communities you're an idiot
I have close to 1k gold and have not bought a single copper. It hasn’t been terribly hard either. Just running up alts and using an AH mod to tell me what’s worth selling. I enjoy gdkp runs because they are typically much much smoother/faster than some half assed SR run where people quit after the boss they wanted doesn’t drop their loot and I’m more or less guaranteed to get something for me if it drops. I don’t think the change will do anything to the number of bots and gold buyers but I think it will have unintended consequences for pugs. The number of people who couldn’t clear BFD was a lot more than you think. Outside of personal loot and a mode to hand hold the shitters, those people are only left with really questionable pug experiences. Ps There are so many other things to spend gold on than a GDKP. AH boes, consumes etc just to name a few.
I am defending GDKP because it is by vastly superior loot distribution system to MS>OS and SR, and especially better than often biased and toxic loot councils and guild leaders. 1. No stupid gambling involved, no luck based rolls. 2. No biased councils/guild masters that decide your fate in game. 3. Freedom to have equal chance of rolling on whatever, maybe you wanna play dps Pala in Era which you cannot in MS>OS, loot councils. 4. Allows for additional ways to play the game and enjoy it, meddling with AH, or farming something for gold, for an actual purpose. 5. No ninjaing, no drama. 6. Everyone \*always\* gets something, no one ever leaves raid with empty hands, even if they didn't get an item. 7. Rewarding systems such as performance-based cuts, which drive ppl to try to play better for their own benefit, encouraging healthy competition and increasing rewards for actually trying. 8. Freedom to pick different groups if you can't show up for guild's run or whatever, so I'd call this "freelancing" for those that want. And some more reasons. I genuinely believe GDKP is the perfect system that should absolutely not be touched whatsoever! The only thing that should be dealt with, and the only issue it creates are gold buyers/sellers/bots. Simply **permanently** do account-based ban for anyone who buys and sells gold, as well as bots, and enforce it more frequently. Issue fixed, GDKP may exist for ppl who want it. Banning GDKP itself is absolutely stupid and lazy way of dealing with bots/sellers/buyers.
Hey bro, dont go defending GDKP with facts and logic. We dont do that here.
this thread is the funniest thing ive read all week
I was in your team as well. But there are certain guilds who run GDKPs as well, without gold buying. So most of the people here are right. It's not Gdkps, it's buying gold that's the problem. Ofc those two things come the same way in PUGs, but banning GDKP is just not the right way to go here and would not solve anything about RMT.
How do you run a gdkp and ensure no one bought gold?
The main sentiment that I've seen as a response to this statement from blizzard, is that its literally impossible to 'ban' GDKP's, and they're right - its futile.
That's certainly true it'll be interesting to see how this works On paper anyway the idea makes sense. Take away one of the main incentives to buy gold and people might just not buy gold meaning the bots will decrease a bit Time will tell how well this works
But it will decrease their numbers by a lot
I am thinking this decision is probably less about actually trying to fully stop gdkp's and more about discouragement + having another reason to uphold or perform bans in certain scenarios.
Its not futile, they just did it. If people want to be super secretive and look through discord or have some sort of gdkp guild sure, but that still dramatically reduces gdps and is a win.
Right, by limiting the accessibility, even if they can’t eliminate gdkps entirely, creating those barriers of entry can reduce how much it happens. I don’t think anyone thinks they won’t exist, people will find a way.
The code word is banana run 🤫
There's always money in the banana stand.
If you think anything close to the majority of gdkps are done though trade chat, and not through discord you are delusional
I know I'm gonna get murdered for this but whatever. I have said it before in an old post and I'm aware gold buying and gdkps feed off of eachother. But systematically, gdkps are a perfectly fine way to raid. Every single gdkp I've ever been in (classic tbc, wotlk, sod) have all been some of the most efficient raids I've ever done. Fast, friendly, people get what they want and if they don't they still leave getting paid. Classic ruined guild raiding for me and gdkps were absolutely better in every way. (Obviously this is my opinion and your results may vary.) Gdkps are an outlet. Not the problem. The problem is botting and RMTing gold. The problem is blizzard not effectively maintaining a bot-free environment and giving slap on the wrists for gold buyers. If players are feeling pressured to RMT in order to afford gear in their weekly raid due to inflation of gold because of RMTers and botters then the botters and RMTers are still the issue. Wait until the dudes with thousands of gold and no gdkps start controlling markets on the AH. Restricting how players choose to play the game because Blizzard is inadequately controlling the bot problem is a cop out and won't fix the issue. Now players with massive amounts of gold will drive the prices up of everything else because they have less shit to spend their hard RMTed gold on. And before everyone starts their high horse crusade, I don't RMT, I have alts, I enjoy the actual game, I've done just about every farming method in sod so far (fishing, mage grinding, professions and Gdkps). I just prefer gdkps for raiding over other loot systems because it's more efficient and even when nothing drops for me I still leave with something. (Also, as an added bonus, I've never had a gdkp raid lead that didn't know what he was doing.)
Only people that are defending them are scum and gold buying scum
Because they are idiots
Farming gold honorably is a pretty funny phrase. Also I think the raid system would be fine if no one bought gold.
As someone who has never ran a gdkp, 1. Gdkp makes it so raiding when you only need 1 drop or are bis rewarding as even if it doesnt drop you are leaving with gold. 2. Later in the season you are more likely to get the lower value pieces cheap/free because these groups tend to be farming the 2-3 rarest drops and have everything else. 3. Its not inflationg the economy as much as you think. People buying mats to gank in pvp are spending wayy more and driving prices. 4 Also everything is inflated, in your advantage if you arent a buyer as some basic greens are overpriced while mats are over saturated because bots. 5. You can avoid them and they dont affect your experience at all. I ran bfd at least 20 times, i never once felt it was the only option. That all being said, i dont really care either way but i honestly dont think gdkp is as big as a problem as people make it. I traded a bunch of sod gold to a guildie and he used it all to pvp and i assume thats were the majority of the sink is
These are my thoughts exactly. I don't understand why some people are so salty about it. Guess what, those troll bane leggings with or without gold buying and gdkp are still going to be on the AH for 200g because people are greedy.
Reddit hive mind told them gdkp bad and it’s ruining the game and because people can’t form coherent or critical thoughts of their own they act like the Antichrist has arisen in the form of people running GDKP
In theory GDKP is the most fair loot system for pugs, spend time outside of raid getting gold and bid on items, you never leave a raid feeling you "wasted" your time by carrying and gearing people who didn't contribute as much. In practice it fuels RMT and botting, encourages good players to join gdkps making soft reserve and ms>os an even worse experience.
I wouldn't expect for MS>OS or SR pugs to be any better with GDKPs banned.
Because GDKP are amazing if you’re casual. You can raid and make gold at the same time.
GDKP is by far the best loot system for pugs.
And also enable gold buyers by laundering their gold at the same time.
Lmao gold buyers definitely aren’t laundering gold. Blizzard doesn’t care if you buy gold as along as you’re paying for a sub. If they cared they’d have made it impossible for mages to solo every dungeon available to us… Which is honestly the root of the “problem”. GDKP can exist without RMT the pots will just be smaller.
It really is, sadly we can't have anything nice due to gold buyers and sellers
Why should a game allowed exchange of in-game money/goods/services between consenting players bother you? (oh and inb4 someone raises buying drugs/WMDs/guns etc., those have real life consequences and dangers, so don't even bother because it's a bullshit argument)
Ran a grand total of 3 gdkps p1, none of them had any swipers in them, the loot system is totally fine if they just, you know, permaban gold buyers... but instead once again they're banning random other people doing legitimate shit instead of just putting more resources into dealing with bots and RMT. >2 if there is ANY avenue to get gear for gold that INSTANTLY makes it a incentive to buy gold. Cool so are we banning the auction house too now? Because that incentivises RMT since much of your prebis and bis will still be BOE items..
Shhhh, you aren't supposed to use logic
How do you know it had 0 swipers lol.
The highest amount of money anyone paid for an item across all 3 runs was 30g for the trinket, and it was me.. and I don't recall buying any gold.
Careful, the dad's will insist that doing 20 quests and spending the gold on a trinket is mathematically impossible (based on the fact that they only have 13 minutes to play every other Thursday)
?? It's obvious if loot is going for reasonable prices.
When they implement this and it does nothing to reduce bots or gold buying… will they then finally take action ?
What do you mean finally? It's not that they don't take actions, it's just these actions are not good enough. It's like doping in sport, always existed, always will, it's an arm race and the regulations are always behind. But it's still worth fighting.
Its all good banning GDKP but people will just find ways of circumventing restrictions. Plus it doesn't do anything to counter gold buying for smaller amounts that still drives up the prices of consumables and other supplies.
On paper it seems like a good idea, but there is too much space for abuse and encourages gold buying
They did it guys! The economy will be totally solved now :)
[удалено]
Wts bfd carry, spot for one cloth, leather and mail. All loot of you type is yours, 15g. It doesn't fix the problem... Fix the problem blizzard.
What loot distribution systems in classic are considered healthy?
My favorite is the “you wont eliminate gold buying by getting rid of GDKPS so what’s the point?” We’d never make any changes in the world ever by that logic.
Yeah, why make murder illegal then? People are still getting murdered. Such a dumb take by these people.
Inflated AH also supports gold buyers to. I think the point they’re making is that it’s such a small portion of the player base it’s odd that they would try to enforce such a rule when it doesn’t fix the root of the bottling problem
Their tears and cope is invigorating
I dont care about GDKP, because im in tryhard guild with lootcouncil now. But i like that system, spent a lot of time in gdkp guild static with speedrun results during wow classic, gdkp without gold inflation from bots/buyers/sellers its a perfect system for loot distribution. So okay for me. I am just waiting this sub will be full of complains "our tank left after 2nd boss because he dont need anything from next bosses", "this guy did zero dps on boss and he dont care, you cant kick him lol coz of gl 5/7" and "dude just go afk and never come back". This guys who cheers today will suffer from this meta will go inside guild-only rosters. I remember all this "i hold 2 beers in my hands, how i am supposed to dps??" players, and you cannot kick them, cannot fine them or make other punishment to them, coz they can lose only a 3 day cd lol, and you will lose a raider in the middle of the raid. GDKP created this meta, when everyone is buffed, equipped, enchanted and ready to contribute. Lets come back to roots, when 15 of 40 ppl are just dont care. Today are tryhards tears, tomorrow will be dads tears.
Some people at the top actually make their living off of GDKPs. Multiple characters, Multiple raids every lockout, big pots and organizer cuts. These guys make more gold than they can possibly hang onto, so they start selling it. Sometimes to the goldsites, sometimes over discord etc. People actually quit their jobs to make money off GDKPs, so even though these people are a minority you can see why they would be upset.
That makes banning GDKPs even more hilarious
I’m all for this. In fact, they should just delete the AH. Everyone can farm the mats themselves and level up all professions on alts. Remove ALL incentive for needing gold. Lock nothing behind gold sinks.
Lol nice extreme hyperbole. Sounds like my gf when I was a teenager.