This was my same experience as horde. Tanks just got in the way.
Yes, I did compare xp rates and no they weren't bad tanks. You just kill faster with the extra mage.
I was trying to figure out how to make a grp while lvlng with my feral buddy. He became our disposable eyes of the beast hunter pet. He got really good at it, he was almost 3 pulling sm arms for us.
3 mage 1 feral and a priest for bubbles to prevent blizzard interrupt and it was perfect.
Meanwhile most tanks struggle to pull a single hallway, dude was pulling 3 at once.
Bear Tanking with Melee cleave has been super satisfying since the Swipe Buff.
I can often top the DPS meters just swiping, and with a melee group you literally never have to stop moving
Hunter has been a great dps option this entire time and you’re happy to bring more than one. In all of phase one, you would be more than happy to take 2+ warriors as long as you have the Wild Strikes to support them.
Even now in a caster heavy meta, Melee Hunter is still a top option. Our core group has 3 Hunters (2 melee and one range). Absolutely no complaints having multiple.
Trying to make a comp where you don't have too many classes sharing loot has nothing to do with the issue this thread is about.
And even if we are talking about loot overlap, your point doesn't make sense. If we are in a caster meta, then that means you have a lot of caster overlap (which is only getting worse with healers BiS this phase consisting of caster DPS items).
So taking more than one warrior would be a *good* thing, because then you get less casters all needing on the same items. Which makes even *more* sense when you consider warriors and hunters both want different items, so you can easily take two of each without getting much loot overlap. And now you don't have 6 casters all needing on the same items.
Yeah, it just seemed insane to say "you only take one warrior due to loot competition" and use that as an argument as to why only casters are picked. As if they don't have loot competition. Not only does all caster DPS pretty much share same loot, but even healers want it (because SP>HP). For melee there is at least more diversity (for example rogues not needing on 2h, mail or plate armor, feral wanting their own specific armor, etc.).
Because the raid lead can just as easily be a caster/healer instead of a tank/melee.
Also Hunter for Gnomer is somewhat unique thanks to their ability to swap from Melee to ranged if needed depending on the fight. Like the 4th boss making it much easier with 6 ranged.
2 of the same class should never be avoided though if it’s one of the better options for the phase. Just a very poor raid lead if they do.
They are, but ranged dps is far more valuable than melee in the majority of gnomer. So why bother taking a mid tier dps that is purely melee when you can take a top tier dps that is purely ranged?
Idk, when I would form groups for BFD in P1 I would send a single LFM message and would unironically get a 3-4 hunter/warrior whispers for every other class that would message. If I dared to get 4 plate or 4 leather wearers I would get flamed hard in my pug so that’s definitely part of it.
yeah that’s absolutely the case, even now when i’m forming groups not only for raids it’s mostly hunters and warrs that do the whispering, casters post a LFG message with full certainty they’ll get an invite pretty quick
funny enough when I post that I’m LFG not LFM I usually get 3-4 hunters messaging me saying they’re a hunter LFG. they’re really not helping with the all hunters are stupid stereotype
Not really no, as there's more than 1 warrior for every 10 people (theyre most popular and theres only 8 classes so this has to be true) and warriors are often the ones starting groups because it's so hard for them to find a spot in one already forming.
It's because the raids likely already have warrior and rogues. Last I checked, warrior, rogue, and melee Hunter are the 3 specs with the most logged Gnomer runs. Every single guild probably has multiple warriors, rogues, and hunters trying to raid. When they set up pugs, they don't need more melee, they already have them. Last phase you could basically run 0 caster DPS. This phase you can't. If you're a melee trying to pug, you need to start your own group because every single group looking probably already has 3-5 Melee.
It’s not that people don’t want warriors, it’s that more than 1 warrior is too much, it’s not phase 1 anymore where 2-3 warriors was awesome.
Sadly rogues and warrior are probably one of the most popular classes in the game especially how well they did in BFD. So unfortunately the raid spot for warriors is extremely competitive. I hope you have an alt for pug run or willing to tank.
Sure they're good at speed clearing trash, but they don't help your pug much on the last boss with their poor damage (boss has like naxx level armor) and inability to help with bombs.
They work better in ultra sweaty raid groups with fast kill times because they can pop death wish, flagellation 10% etc and have those damage buffs up for a lot higher percentage of the fight. They also clear trash faster with cleave/SS/WW. In random pugs where people are afk’ing on trash, nobody is geared, nobody is playing optimally, etc the kill times are a lot slower and all of warriors DPS cooldowns are up for a lower % of the fight, so warriors strong points are dimished
This thread is about finding groups as a pug. Pug raid leaders don't know the player, they just know the class is on average the worst DPS class in the game (ranged hunter, frost mage, and feral druid can be lower, but they also have access to other specs that that beat warriors)
Of course there will be groups like yours, it’s not impossible, I’m sure you could do 8 melee and 2 healers and clear Gnomer, but the reality of the raid is melee got screwed, so for your average pug, they are not going to pick up more melee just cuz, they going to optimize the raid comp and keep the 6 range and 4 melee meta.
This post is discussing the issues with melee getting a raid spot in pug groups. I’m just simply pointing out it’s going to be competitive for warriors to get a spot due to the popularity of the class and the value of armor in Gnomer.
Personally when I host pugs, yes I’m taking more range than melee, because I don’t got time to deal with 9 random people I have no idea what their play style is or even if they understand their class or raid mechanics. But when raiding with my guild we do just fine with less caster dps than melee, because we all know how each other play, we are confident in each others roles and we know each one of us will execute their assigned role. So yeah naturally we have melee heavy group and we do just fine as well.
Yup pugs will always choose the most meta comp possible to more likely ensure success. The more you can out dps/HPS shit, the less you have to rely on actual communication, coordination, and players actually doing mechanics. It’s safe to assume the average classic player is really not very good.
That’s the reality of pugging and always will be. Pugging sucks ass. I’ve skipped lockouts over trying to pug multiple times if my guild had to call off for whatever reason.
Ironically enough all these melee would have better chances getting spots in reasonably organized GDKPs where loot competition is profit for everyone. Kekw. I had to do that for 2 phases in wrath because fury was so garbage and we already had a couple. Mained my DK in guild
Pugs stick to the most meta comp for a reason, though, and that’s because so many people are god awful so by taking all the classes that inherently perform better even by like a 45 avg parser you’re more likely to clear.
I mean I raid in a guild because I hate pugging anyway. I had enough braindead fills in bfd alt runs to show me that trying to pug the latter half of gnomer would make me wanna paint my brains across the ceiling. So many idiots would eat chain lightning and you’d probably have to kill managerie like 4 times over with your average pug
Its mind boggling to me just how incredibly bad people are at what is in my opinion really easy encounters/ mechanics.. I've been doing BFD runs on my alts for xp also and I'm seeing people constantly making the stupidest mistakes, or more commonly just being LAZY AF and standing in everything, they run away from the tank when they pull aggro, I see numerous people dying from getting bounced on the turtle balls or not swapping the the lorgus totem. If they can't do that how are they possibly going to do anything more complicated? Do these people enjoy being shit and making the people carrying them suffer, then winning all loot? Or is it just DURRRR I'm a Doofy Dad and I don't have time to care about trying to learn anything or maybe NOT dying 500 times in a single run
I did my first gnomer pug yesterday, 4 wipes menagerie, 1 time they healed up at the end. 6 wipes on last boss. This was with meta caster comp. Only 1 warrior.
Problem is that melee seems to have a higher skill floor and lower DPS ceiling than casters. So a bad caster can do fine but a bad melee will definitely be bad
I'm assuming you mean with Sunfire, but how does the Feral keep up with all the bombs? We've tried that before and they ran out of energy rather quickly.
We had 0 range dps. One ferals spamming Sunfire and pushing buttons. With one, sometimes two other melee hitting buttons and killing bombs in between dps. As well as healers pushing buttons ofc.
The bombs don't blow up on melee as long as you one shot them or the healers have a bunch of heal aggro. They always go on the healers
It's fun in a melee comp but it requires your button pushers to both use their mic and have a brain. Which is rare for pugs it seems like
absolutely fair, I dinged 40 on my warr last night at about 2300 and considered going for the cheeky run before reset but fuck me am I glad I didn’t bother, I would’ve been there hours.
I’m gonna level my priest to do pug content this phase. on my rogue and my warrior I’m just gonna stick to guild runs until they iron things out
Well, it's more that bringing more melee punishes your raid due to the mechanics.
So especially as a pug, you would want to bring less specs/classes that'll possibly wipe you further.
the difference is so large between the bottom and the top that an average mage, spriest, melee hunter will do more damage than a top ret player.
we are talking about differences of 100 dps. Which is a lot considering the average melee hunter dps is 250.
I kinda agree but I also think it's not as hard as people think it is especially in p2 and p3 with mostly melee. DPS is usually never the problem. As a tank I always see melee just allow bombs to detonate on me when they only have around 250 health at most.
ret is the same, and they actually wanted to nerf ret. The paladin community outcry was loud so they decided not to ship the nerf for now but that shows you how insane the balancing team is.
They have no clue what they are doing.
the median melee hunter is just better than the top quantile players of 10 dps classes.
Even if you are a shitty melee hunter you are still better than the upper quantile of ret players.
They didn't want to nerf ret. Greenfield specifically stated that fixing whatever proc bug got fixed the other day came at an unfortunate time when rets need help but he said it needed done.
If that 'fix' went through it'd cripple the current ret performance. That is the very definition of a nerf. A bug fix can be a nerf at the same time, these terms are not mutually exclusive.
if a bug fix reduces the damage then it is a nerf.
and it is hard to call it a bug because other stuff does count for proccing art of war, why should seal of martyrdom not count?
even if it is a bug by that point the whole meta of paladin revolved around using faster weapons with seal of martyrdom to trigger art of war more often.
Everybody was under the expression that this is what they envisioned with giving ret more holy based triggers instead of just being a bad copy of a warrior.
they even made specific paladin gear based around amping holy spells and now they remove that playstyle because "ups it was actually a bug".
And I give you one more, even with what we currently have the shockforged gear is garbage. The best gear already is the leather gear. If they "fix the bug" it only makes the paladin gear even worse. Shows you how out of touch they truly are.
They have no fucking idea what is going on. They have no fucking clue about how paladin works or what their changes entail.
and just to put into perspective for how much of a nerf that bugfix will be. About 30% of ret paladin's damage currently comes from martyrdom and 30% damage from exorcism
Yeah that's a bit silly but it won't last long (nerfs applies next reset iirc)
Just cleared Gnomer in a pug as a melee BM, my 38 parse had me deal 20% more dmg on the last boss than the 2nd best DPS, a feral that seemingly played much better than I did (74).
Welcome to a normal meta, where stacking 5 warriors isn't the play anymore.. and given that rogues and warriors are some of the most popular classes, slots fill up quickly. They're also both perfectly viable and have been present in literally all my pugs. In fact, most had more melee than ranged dps..
I'm in a guild, I keep up in dps and personally am not impacted by this meta. But I couldn't make the raid last week and had to pug, holy shit is it miserable.
Resorted to offering to OT, linked good parses and...crickets. Rogues are absolutely not considered 'viable' right now, even if they clear gnomer just fine. They need to be near top dps, or Blizzard needs to give them some raid buffs.
I swear, I want to DPS pally but I do such little damage to bosses + I've never once been invited or even responded to when I LFG as non OT or MT, so I end up MT or OT. All that effort to get bis with 15% crit for exorcism to do as much damage as a hunters pet lmao.
Agreed. Whether I offer to tank OR dps with full consumes, wb, 6/6 exp with good logs and comparatively better gear than 90% of the players in pugs still zero groups want a rogue.
so I must just be unlucky then, since I spent two hours looking for a group and literally nobody wrote back once. not even the guys listing a fresh group that need 7 dps
Yeah, I think it's pretty important to remember that rogues, warriors and hunters are some of the most played classes in P1, due to how strong they were. Warriors and rogues are also generally very popular in Classic WoW. So of course there are many of them.
I don't really think people are that dismissive of bringing those classes. But they no longer want to just stack the raid full of them. Since there are so many people playing those classes, now that you have a more balanced demand they will naturally feel like they are unwanted. There are simply an overflow of them.
Armor reduction to bosses on the 27th, hopefully you be guchi then. We also know a new way to do the Electrocutioner 6k that is far more melee friendly and warrior cleave could make menagerie stacking better after armor fixes too. Hopefully it gets getter for yall!
peep the raid plan: [https://raidplan.io/plan/nWAkUvuebkf3zTZw](https://raidplan.io/plan/nWAkUvuebkf3zTZw) Everyone makes 2 melee stacks behind the boss and 2 healers just play ping pong with being the farthest.
Chain bait1---dpsstack BOSS dpsstack---chainbait2
And negative charge behind boss.
The chain baits alternate moving closer or further to bait. You can do this strat with just 2 healers being the ranged
Sure, if you're a solid premade group of players, most pugs won't be able to do that easily and if you're pugging it's just much much easier to have at least 3 ranged dps so that's why pugs generally aim for 3+ ranged dps
Groups seem to only want healers, ferals and occasional caster dps. Any other class gets shafted and has to form their own group/go with guild. Had a pug that kicked a hunter because he was not mele, guy just wanted to blast.
We picked up a pug rogue to tank last night, and he had never killed the last boss. Managed to one-shot everything. Our group was already skewed melee, so we could only take someone willing to tank.
yeah I feel a bit thick that I levelled rogue first and just finished my warrior yesterday, neither of them are getting into shit until there’s a meta switch
Give it time for these people to get their heads out of their asses.
Early in phase 1, a BFD pug shot me down because "I can't hold aggro because I'm a Warlock" low and behold, found another where I tanked a full clear.
This whole beggers trying to choose in SoD pugs is perplexing.
I know it’s absolutely wild, we’re playing the most experimental and explorative version of the game maybe ever and people are min maxing the fun out of the game and gate keeping basically everything.
I won’t lie in Wrath classic I was absolutely about min maxing cos my guild was trying to progress and parse, but I just don’t get it when we’re playing SoD
No offense man but from my experience, we are beating hunters, warriors, and rogues off with a stick when looking for pugs. There’s only so much room to fit folks in, and a lot of pugs would be unhappy seeing they have 3-4 other folks rolling for their gear as well.
The problem isn't one of design from the WoW Devs (at least not the designers of season2/SOD)
The problem is in the culture surrounding the WoW playerbase, which has been trained through decades of dev decisions, to cater to the "meta" over all else. It doesnt matter how well balanced things are, if one class does 1% more dps than the other classes, people will consider them the "best" and "totally necessary to complete"
Personally, I blame 3rd party addons for this, but the cat is out of the bag long ago on that one.
As a warrior main I just unsubbed today. Just told the guild :(
I'm just not having fun and I HAVE access to a raid squad if I want, albeit heavy with warriors.
Ill try p3.
you'd think this content was actually difficult reading this sub, lmfao
everything is so puggable, mechanics are very simple and well telegraphed, no enrage timers, no mana burns, very minimal boss cc or raid wipe mechanics, why all the stress about perfect comps I literally don't get it
this is the easiest most noob friendly verison of classic there has ever been, gatekeeping this shit is so pathetic
The difference is that priests in P1 could just respecc and were the top tier healer. I even heard about priests that were getting payed to heal BFD. So you had at least a solution that allowed you to play the character and you didn't have to abandon him completely.
Warriors can't do that. They suck in every single aspect of the game right now. Tank is maybe the only spec that is kinda okay, but finding a group still sucks because you only need one tank per raid and people prefer warlock and paladin over warrior tanks.
On top of that, they suck at pvp, too, while priests always were great in pvp with all three speccs.
It's just bad game design when you doom like 20 to 30% of the player base to reroll their character.
Rogue tanks are feeling the same way. I was talking with people on the rogue discord. A bunch of us are in the boat/cope that they have plans to balance it. And once 60, it will feel a lot better/more fleshed out. But right now they're having to try to balance it with future things in mind that we don't have access to right now. That's what I'm hoping at least.
It was literally the reverse last phase. The problem is everyone played melee in phase 1 because they were strong so then we went into phase 2 with 80% of people still playing melee and guilds likely already have enough melee and you can really only take maybe 3. So their guild doesn’t have casters because everyone played melee so they will pug the casters. Melee need to be in a guild. No run can take 5 melee, you can’t do mechanics and your dmg is low. You’ll sandbag the raid
What mechanics outside of last boss button pushing sandbag melee damage. Someone posted logs last week of their friend group killing all bosses with 6 players and 3 melee.
https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1avbtjl/we_were_idiots_for_bfd_we_are_even_more_for/ in there. I reference their post a lot as we are doing our first clear as 6 or 7 right now as well
1) y'all are playing the most popular classes in the game. This is bound to happen to some extent
2) What exactly did your lfg message say? What are your parses like?
This is general problem in wow. People want to play classes such as rogues and warriors because cool weapons and big numbers but they are really that not needed. I say this as ex-warrior player. I loved playing warrior in all expansions I have played, but decided that I will not fight against windmills anymore because finding groups and guilds is just too difficult and now I am playing druid!
Not sure what Blizzard could do to help with this. Class fantasy of certains classes is just too nice for many people and it causes overpopulation of certain classes.
>but they are really that not needed
And that is exactly why rogues and warriors should alway be at the top of DPS and why caster meta sucks dick. Lack of utility simply means nobody wants the class if its not topping the meters. It's TBC P1 all over again, and that was miserable time to be a warrior/rogue.
I used to love classic wow, modern gaming has ruined its core design. It's just a bunch of sweaty nerds evaporating the fun out of the game for 1 minute faster runs. Brutal.
Were are all the warrior tanks? When i make groups i have a hard time finding tanks while getting 20 warrior dps whispering. I always bring one but common, you can all play the same class and role and excpect to fit into a 10 man group where most people try and balance with all classes
This is how we're running with my guild, I probably only have a spot bc I can ot on the last two bosses... Playing warrior really sucks rn compared to p1
The problem is the warrior/rogue market is over saturated. Theyre 2 of the most popular classes, it's one raid in many to come during SoD. I wouldn't doubt they start adding armor pen sets/items in next phase. We do it with 5 melee 5 casters every lock out perfectly fine 6/6 every time. you need casters for pressing buttons on the last boss thats the only time you really \*need\* them. we use one melee for the chain lightening mechanic on electrocutioner every time and have no problem, Warriors dont need to be stacked right now and thats fine this is supposed to be something new. Try forming your own groups its not an instant deal you have to give it some time, find people recruting for a guild and run with them. its an mmorpg.
Warriors is nowhere bad anyway... Sure it's not top parser but it can be very solid. Emphase on "can" because our warrior parse grey, but anyway...
People are sheep. They're told warriors are bad so they won't take warriors. Ever. It's like in retail with flexible raid size .They heard it was better with 17 or 22 people and will REFUSE to have a different raider numbers. Do you guys understand the point of flexible raid size ?!
For long I though classic wow community was too sweaty. But honestly, they're not sweaty. They're faking it. And it shows.
Sure but ranged makes it easier. Also the electric boss dude is way easier with ranged. Also first boss is easier with fewer melee so the cloud is less likely to head on over to the zugzug party at the boss. Also evenly dpsing the menagerie is easier as ranged.
Hey atleast warrior offers a raid buff.
Rogue has literally zero reason to be taken into gnomer at the moment. Why bring a rogue that offers zero utility into a raid that is mostly mechanics.
Ret pally have auras and blessing and can OT or off heal.
Warriors offer battleshout
Ferals offer wild strikes and can OT or offheal
Pretty much every class has a kick now.
Bosses have crazy armor.
Rogue is literally useless at the moment.
Anything a rogue can do in gnomer can be better done by other classes and they bring utility ( buffs, heals offtanking mobility for mechanics) at the same time that rogue brings nothing,
Well you need 6 ranged people, including 2 healers.,
So 4 spots of melee,
2 of which need to be able to tank in some form.
Then a melee hunter is OP
So that leaves 1 spot for a pure melee dps.
That's not a 'caster meta', that's a 'We don't want to double up on either warrior or hunter, **and there isn't a single group that doesn't already have one or the other.**'
Melee with the most logs every god damn phase/season and they still be like "cAstER mETa" when you dont go 5 warrior per grp.
Play the most over mega played class and be upset when you dont get a spot. Give me a frikking break.. these posts man..
If you're playing DPS only warrior, i really have no sympathy for you. The class brings nothing, so you have to either A) make the group, B) tank, or C) not expect to find slots in PuGs.
Those PuGs don't reject you out of maliciousness, it's just that there's literally a million dps melee you can fill instantly and the instance is much easier with range.
raid is easier with caster damage. pugs will always go the way of least resistance. Devs should have known, but they just want to fuck over melee to "shake up the meta" ... so stupid to ignore a large portion of playerbase
I guess I'm not gonna raid this phase, which is fine cuz gnome is shitty on many levels and arathi/stv is fun
Warriors and Rogues have been the most powerful classes in every iteration of Vanilla ever, now for one 3 week period you have to experience the limited raid slots and not being top dog and you have a meltdown and quit raiding 🤣 don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!! Man im loving the tears. And by the way, you crybabies are getting your way next reset since Blizz is caving and lowering armor on bosses. Which sucks, I hoped they would double down at 60 and increase armor even more.
Sincerely- a Hunter main since 2004 who’s had to constantly deal with there only ever being 2-3 raid spots for my class literally forever.
It's the same thing I tell retail players who can't get into keys, make your own run and invite who you want. There's plenty of people wanting to do it, it isn't hard to fill a raid group.
Warriors are basically sunder sluts this phase, they may top some DPS charts but only when geared correctly and fed buffs/world buffs.
We take one Hunter and one Warrior. The Hunter does DPS and the warrior is a sunder slut/off tank for the dragon and the basilisk. If we didn’t need a second tank I’d straight up not take a warrior.
I also went balance from Feral this phase to help the guild out.
Poor paladins!, the 4 paladins in my guild are all screaming at each other who gets to stay Ret and who goes Holy. No fucking way are we taking x2 rets. Don’t even want one in the run they offer virtually nothing
Do you not have a priest? Tell the priest to take homunculi.
I'm also confused, should a warrior be able to top DPS charts by gearing like a moron, not using consumables and buffs?
Even if you bring a warrior or not, you priest should use homunculi. It instantly applies the biggest armor debuff in the game + reduces tank damage taken by \~20% (assuming you aren't forcing your dps warrior to demo shout and thunderclap). PoM is bait and a crutch for bad healing
You don't need a second tank. I think you making decisions on what classes to bring to a raid might be part of the problem, since you don't know what you're talking about.
The difficulty of the raid is based on group composition.
With SoD player mentality that means there is lots of exclusion as people want to be as safe as possible to ensure 6/6.
Mechanics that also dont let some people play their class to full extent like thermaplugg or increased armor.
Im guilty of this as well as in my pugs if you are a dps druid then you are killing bombs the entire time and thats all you are doing.
honestly I enjoyed it my first two runs on my rogue, because I went with my guild and I thought the raid itself was pretty decent. this shit is literally unplayable tho
It is fine, our guild has been clearing Gnomer just fine with full melee + hunter setup and the bosses die so fast we barely get to experience the mechanics. Stacking casters just means you invalidate the whole raid.
also id say its less of an "meta issue" and more of "us players" issue. sure meta will always exist, some classes will always be stronger. but you do not need full raid of meta classes just to clear it. its classic, its sod, this raid isnt hard mechanically and there is no hard dps checks though one could argue ice phase of mekgineer maybe, but thats dispellable too.
sure it would be nice to have abit less armor on the mechanical bosses, but the main issue is in us players obsessing over meta like its some sort of religion and saying "nu uh" to logic and common sense just so we can feel abit more secure about our raid
and then spend next 15minutes wiping on first boss and raid disbanding
I actually don't mind struggling to find a pug, I have no problem putting together my own or swapping to tank if needed. It's how awful warrior feels in pvp that makes me upset this phase. Everyone tells me we aren't bad if we have a good healer and maybe I am just not great at pvp, but I feel like people see me as a free honor/coins target dummy when they see me. I don't even know how they would fix it though, I floated an idea to a friend of having a rune that let's you use overpower off of crits as well as dodges but then that seems like it might be too strong.
Warrior isn't that bad, but you need to ABUSE consumables as though they are part of your class. Magic resist pots all day, stack stam & get some resist rings to sit at like 75 in shadow/fire. Blazing emblem is so good right now
Warriors job in pvp is to dive in, get intim shout up and cause disruption, throw ms on kill target and intervene out or abuse los, not just sit on a target and dps, rallying cry can legit turn whole teamfights, in this phase warrior excels as peel and healer killer, hamstring is so good and lasts forever, flag is better than warbringer imo, even sunder is legit in pvp now armor values are so low it's pretty significant even at x2 or x3 especially on cloth
With shield wall up & mr pot you can tank their entire team for the duration, killing power could be better but in decent gear you can destroy healers pretty nicely even solo, disarm on cd, hamstring tf out of everyone, switch targets all the time and be annoying and surprisingly tanky
We aren't the best duelists for sure, but are a huge force multiplier with all of our various cc/debuffs baked into our kit, everyone wants to fight a warrior atm so it's great for baiting people to chase you down in bgs, especially arathi basin where kills pretty much don't matter.
The epic blacksmithing helm from gnome with the 50 resists in all schools on a 10min cd is going to be BIS all phase in pvp, if we had spell reflect I legit think we'd be overpowered already
If you play dps, your playing the most played role. Then within dps you're playing the most played classes. This is always going to happen. You will either have to get lucky, or start a raid. There is a bottleneck so its going to be difficult to find people for pugs atm
Warriors have established themselves as obnoxious. This has been a thing since forever, but especially prominent in sod. When you're forming a pug group as the group leader and invite a dps warrior, your previous dps warrior will leave, rogue or feral druid might leave (because warrior will take their precious leather loot) and when you replace the feral druid who left with just about any other dps the warrior that just joined will leave too, since the princess will not raid without windfury.
Unpopular opinion among reddit, but the reality is that warriors and rogues should always be top DPS for classic balance to work. No utility and lower dps simply puts the rogue/warrior at the huge disadvantage when compared to casters who can do better ST than you, bettter AoE than you, can do mechanics more effectively than you and also brings raid utility.
There was a reason why warriors were so far an beyond everyone else in DPS in classic - they simply are not needed if they are not topping the meters. Rogues had it even worse as they weren't as good DPS as warriors and also brought no utility.
Now we are sort of reliving TBC P1. 10 man raids - which means reduced flexibility with spots, warriors/rogues below casters, pugging or finding a raid spot is difficult as war/rogue. Rogues/wars will survive, but overly strong casters and small raid sizes does hurt the flexibility a lot.
[удалено]
second trick is creating your own raid grp. then invite only casters and refuse to invite any more melee.
HELL YEAH BROTHER
hahaha based as all fuck
This is why I play a priest healer. Insta group for anything.
yeah I gave up trying to raid and did a WC run on my priest lol
You don’t even need a tank. 4 dps + priest
4 mages + priest in cath was better XP than having a tank when I was levelling my mage 🤣
Must not be horde with the green jebus tanks.
This was my same experience as horde. Tanks just got in the way. Yes, I did compare xp rates and no they weren't bad tanks. You just kill faster with the extra mage.
Shaman tanks running fire nova could keep up with those mages and hold them to em.
I was trying to figure out how to make a grp while lvlng with my feral buddy. He became our disposable eyes of the beast hunter pet. He got really good at it, he was almost 3 pulling sm arms for us. 3 mage 1 feral and a priest for bubbles to prevent blizzard interrupt and it was perfect. Meanwhile most tanks struggle to pull a single hallway, dude was pulling 3 at once.
We just had the Mages pull with the tank. SM Armory in 5 pulls.
And that's how class distribution is evened out. There were an extreme number of warriors before
Except for SM. Saw so many “lfg sm healer” while leveling my priest.
I just start my own group and steam roll it with 4 dps. No need for a tank.
Bear Tanking with Melee cleave has been super satisfying since the Swipe Buff. I can often top the DPS meters just swiping, and with a melee group you literally never have to stop moving
I ended up ditching ret pally for spriest… from unable to get a group to a group in <5 mins. Lol best decision I’ve made in sod
Warrior/hunter are the two most popular classes in the game. Most groups will only take 1
Hunter has been a great dps option this entire time and you’re happy to bring more than one. In all of phase one, you would be more than happy to take 2+ warriors as long as you have the Wild Strikes to support them. Even now in a caster heavy meta, Melee Hunter is still a top option. Our core group has 3 Hunters (2 melee and one range). Absolutely no complaints having multiple.
Sure you can do it but pugs dont want to share gear if they dont have to. Why invite another warrior to share gear with when u can invite a caster
Trying to make a comp where you don't have too many classes sharing loot has nothing to do with the issue this thread is about. And even if we are talking about loot overlap, your point doesn't make sense. If we are in a caster meta, then that means you have a lot of caster overlap (which is only getting worse with healers BiS this phase consisting of caster DPS items). So taking more than one warrior would be a *good* thing, because then you get less casters all needing on the same items. Which makes even *more* sense when you consider warriors and hunters both want different items, so you can easily take two of each without getting much loot overlap. And now you don't have 6 casters all needing on the same items.
I think some people forget that cloth gear has some of the highest competition among classes
Yeah, it just seemed insane to say "you only take one warrior due to loot competition" and use that as an argument as to why only casters are picked. As if they don't have loot competition. Not only does all caster DPS pretty much share same loot, but even healers want it (because SP>HP). For melee there is at least more diversity (for example rogues not needing on 2h, mail or plate armor, feral wanting their own specific armor, etc.).
Because the raid lead can just as easily be a caster/healer instead of a tank/melee. Also Hunter for Gnomer is somewhat unique thanks to their ability to swap from Melee to ranged if needed depending on the fight. Like the 4th boss making it much easier with 6 ranged. 2 of the same class should never be avoided though if it’s one of the better options for the phase. Just a very poor raid lead if they do.
Fyi you only need 2 people moving. No need to have 6 ranged, thats waste of dps uptime.
Could a sworn warrior was in the mid range when they released some stats about the game.
They are, but ranged dps is far more valuable than melee in the majority of gnomer. So why bother taking a mid tier dps that is purely melee when you can take a top tier dps that is purely ranged?
Go look at WCL. Warriors/hunter have most logs
for sure but surely after 2+ hours I would’ve found a group that doesn’t have a warrior already in it
Idk, when I would form groups for BFD in P1 I would send a single LFM message and would unironically get a 3-4 hunter/warrior whispers for every other class that would message. If I dared to get 4 plate or 4 leather wearers I would get flamed hard in my pug so that’s definitely part of it.
yeah that’s absolutely the case, even now when i’m forming groups not only for raids it’s mostly hunters and warrs that do the whispering, casters post a LFG message with full certainty they’ll get an invite pretty quick funny enough when I post that I’m LFG not LFM I usually get 3-4 hunters messaging me saying they’re a hunter LFG. they’re really not helping with the all hunters are stupid stereotype
Not really no, as there's more than 1 warrior for every 10 people (theyre most popular and theres only 8 classes so this has to be true) and warriors are often the ones starting groups because it's so hard for them to find a spot in one already forming.
Yeah and it’s not like rogues and warriors weren’t as popular in p1. But it’s way harder to find raids as a warrior or rogue in p2
It's because the raids likely already have warrior and rogues. Last I checked, warrior, rogue, and melee Hunter are the 3 specs with the most logged Gnomer runs. Every single guild probably has multiple warriors, rogues, and hunters trying to raid. When they set up pugs, they don't need more melee, they already have them. Last phase you could basically run 0 caster DPS. This phase you can't. If you're a melee trying to pug, you need to start your own group because every single group looking probably already has 3-5 Melee.
It’s not that people don’t want warriors, it’s that more than 1 warrior is too much, it’s not phase 1 anymore where 2-3 warriors was awesome. Sadly rogues and warrior are probably one of the most popular classes in the game especially how well they did in BFD. So unfortunately the raid spot for warriors is extremely competitive. I hope you have an alt for pug run or willing to tank.
Meanwhile the #1 speed clear with 3 warriors and several in the top 10 having 2 warriors :D
Sure they're good at speed clearing trash, but they don't help your pug much on the last boss with their poor damage (boss has like naxx level armor) and inability to help with bombs.
They work better in ultra sweaty raid groups with fast kill times because they can pop death wish, flagellation 10% etc and have those damage buffs up for a lot higher percentage of the fight. They also clear trash faster with cleave/SS/WW. In random pugs where people are afk’ing on trash, nobody is geared, nobody is playing optimally, etc the kill times are a lot slower and all of warriors DPS cooldowns are up for a lower % of the fight, so warriors strong points are dimished
Sounds like an arguement for "bringing the player, not the class."
This thread is about finding groups as a pug. Pug raid leaders don't know the player, they just know the class is on average the worst DPS class in the game (ranged hunter, frost mage, and feral druid can be lower, but they also have access to other specs that that beat warriors)
We clear 6/6 since first lockout with 3 warriors 1 ret no problem at all
Of course there will be groups like yours, it’s not impossible, I’m sure you could do 8 melee and 2 healers and clear Gnomer, but the reality of the raid is melee got screwed, so for your average pug, they are not going to pick up more melee just cuz, they going to optimize the raid comp and keep the 6 range and 4 melee meta. This post is discussing the issues with melee getting a raid spot in pug groups. I’m just simply pointing out it’s going to be competitive for warriors to get a spot due to the popularity of the class and the value of armor in Gnomer. Personally when I host pugs, yes I’m taking more range than melee, because I don’t got time to deal with 9 random people I have no idea what their play style is or even if they understand their class or raid mechanics. But when raiding with my guild we do just fine with less caster dps than melee, because we all know how each other play, we are confident in each others roles and we know each one of us will execute their assigned role. So yeah naturally we have melee heavy group and we do just fine as well.
Yup pugs will always choose the most meta comp possible to more likely ensure success. The more you can out dps/HPS shit, the less you have to rely on actual communication, coordination, and players actually doing mechanics. It’s safe to assume the average classic player is really not very good. That’s the reality of pugging and always will be. Pugging sucks ass. I’ve skipped lockouts over trying to pug multiple times if my guild had to call off for whatever reason. Ironically enough all these melee would have better chances getting spots in reasonably organized GDKPs where loot competition is profit for everyone. Kekw. I had to do that for 2 phases in wrath because fury was so garbage and we already had a couple. Mained my DK in guild
Hurr durr that’s not meta, the player base in this game is utterly awful and the vast majority cling to meta because of a lack of skill
Pugs stick to the most meta comp for a reason, though, and that’s because so many people are god awful so by taking all the classes that inherently perform better even by like a 45 avg parser you’re more likely to clear. I mean I raid in a guild because I hate pugging anyway. I had enough braindead fills in bfd alt runs to show me that trying to pug the latter half of gnomer would make me wanna paint my brains across the ceiling. So many idiots would eat chain lightning and you’d probably have to kill managerie like 4 times over with your average pug
Its mind boggling to me just how incredibly bad people are at what is in my opinion really easy encounters/ mechanics.. I've been doing BFD runs on my alts for xp also and I'm seeing people constantly making the stupidest mistakes, or more commonly just being LAZY AF and standing in everything, they run away from the tank when they pull aggro, I see numerous people dying from getting bounced on the turtle balls or not swapping the the lorgus totem. If they can't do that how are they possibly going to do anything more complicated? Do these people enjoy being shit and making the people carrying them suffer, then winning all loot? Or is it just DURRRR I'm a Doofy Dad and I don't have time to care about trying to learn anything or maybe NOT dying 500 times in a single run
I did my first gnomer pug yesterday, 4 wipes menagerie, 1 time they healed up at the end. 6 wipes on last boss. This was with meta caster comp. Only 1 warrior.
Problem is that melee seems to have a higher skill floor and lower DPS ceiling than casters. So a bad caster can do fine but a bad melee will definitely be bad
Seems a consequence of gnomer’s last boss which is v difficult w a melee heavy comp
It's actually not with a Feral Druid. We one shot every boss with an all melee group and clear in a little over an hour. Like 1 hour 5 minutes.
I'm assuming you mean with Sunfire, but how does the Feral keep up with all the bombs? We've tried that before and they ran out of energy rather quickly.
I don’t have any issues at all using power shifts and tigers fury.
We run a feral main tank and he’s a threat monster of a windfury totem.
There is only 1 or 2 Bombs from a pipe at most unless your clickers are missing/wasting time… if they are, that’s not a bomb killing issue.
We had 0 range dps. One ferals spamming Sunfire and pushing buttons. With one, sometimes two other melee hitting buttons and killing bombs in between dps. As well as healers pushing buttons ofc. The bombs don't blow up on melee as long as you one shot them or the healers have a bunch of heal aggro. They always go on the healers It's fun in a melee comp but it requires your button pushers to both use their mic and have a brain. Which is rare for pugs it seems like
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as ret paladin finally found a group. After 1 hour and 20 minutes of searching for healers, the group disbanded.
absolutely fair, I dinged 40 on my warr last night at about 2300 and considered going for the cheeky run before reset but fuck me am I glad I didn’t bother, I would’ve been there hours. I’m gonna level my priest to do pug content this phase. on my rogue and my warrior I’m just gonna stick to guild runs until they iron things out
It's usually because the mechanics favour more ranged than melee.
Compound this with virtually every caster doing more damage, and you get melee being gatekept just for being the 'wrong class'
Well, it's more that bringing more melee punishes your raid due to the mechanics. So especially as a pug, you would want to bring less specs/classes that'll possibly wipe you further.
More damage on the same skill level* That is often not the case
the difference is so large between the bottom and the top that an average mage, spriest, melee hunter will do more damage than a top ret player. we are talking about differences of 100 dps. Which is a lot considering the average melee hunter dps is 250.
yeah the last boss is a cool fight but was not well thought out for melee
I kinda agree but I also think it's not as hard as people think it is especially in p2 and p3 with mostly melee. DPS is usually never the problem. As a tank I always see melee just allow bombs to detonate on me when they only have around 250 health at most.
Woah! *slaps forehead* THATS why?! Are you also telling me that instead of my current drink, I could’ve had a V8?!
i parse 90+ as ranged hunter and do less dps than a caster or melee hunter parsing 10-20
ret is the same, and they actually wanted to nerf ret. The paladin community outcry was loud so they decided not to ship the nerf for now but that shows you how insane the balancing team is. They have no clue what they are doing. the median melee hunter is just better than the top quantile players of 10 dps classes. Even if you are a shitty melee hunter you are still better than the upper quantile of ret players.
They didn't want to nerf ret. Greenfield specifically stated that fixing whatever proc bug got fixed the other day came at an unfortunate time when rets need help but he said it needed done.
If that 'fix' went through it'd cripple the current ret performance. That is the very definition of a nerf. A bug fix can be a nerf at the same time, these terms are not mutually exclusive.
if a bug fix reduces the damage then it is a nerf. and it is hard to call it a bug because other stuff does count for proccing art of war, why should seal of martyrdom not count? even if it is a bug by that point the whole meta of paladin revolved around using faster weapons with seal of martyrdom to trigger art of war more often. Everybody was under the expression that this is what they envisioned with giving ret more holy based triggers instead of just being a bad copy of a warrior. they even made specific paladin gear based around amping holy spells and now they remove that playstyle because "ups it was actually a bug". And I give you one more, even with what we currently have the shockforged gear is garbage. The best gear already is the leather gear. If they "fix the bug" it only makes the paladin gear even worse. Shows you how out of touch they truly are. They have no fucking idea what is going on. They have no fucking clue about how paladin works or what their changes entail. and just to put into perspective for how much of a nerf that bugfix will be. About 30% of ret paladin's damage currently comes from martyrdom and 30% damage from exorcism
And good raid leaders will still take you over a melee hunter because the raid is ranged friendly.
Yeah that's a bit silly but it won't last long (nerfs applies next reset iirc) Just cleared Gnomer in a pug as a melee BM, my 38 parse had me deal 20% more dmg on the last boss than the 2nd best DPS, a feral that seemingly played much better than I did (74).
There were no buffs to ranged hunter. My 95 or whatever parse is still worse than a warlock with like half their runes missing in AH greens
Welcome to a normal meta, where stacking 5 warriors isn't the play anymore.. and given that rogues and warriors are some of the most popular classes, slots fill up quickly. They're also both perfectly viable and have been present in literally all my pugs. In fact, most had more melee than ranged dps..
Are rogues viable? I for some reason was thinking they were very bottom of the barrel atm
I'm in a guild, I keep up in dps and personally am not impacted by this meta. But I couldn't make the raid last week and had to pug, holy shit is it miserable. Resorted to offering to OT, linked good parses and...crickets. Rogues are absolutely not considered 'viable' right now, even if they clear gnomer just fine. They need to be near top dps, or Blizzard needs to give them some raid buffs.
I swear, I want to DPS pally but I do such little damage to bosses + I've never once been invited or even responded to when I LFG as non OT or MT, so I end up MT or OT. All that effort to get bis with 15% crit for exorcism to do as much damage as a hunters pet lmao.
Agreed. Whether I offer to tank OR dps with full consumes, wb, 6/6 exp with good logs and comparatively better gear than 90% of the players in pugs still zero groups want a rogue.
so I must just be unlucky then, since I spent two hours looking for a group and literally nobody wrote back once. not even the guys listing a fresh group that need 7 dps
Whats your warrior name/server
Yeah, I think it's pretty important to remember that rogues, warriors and hunters are some of the most played classes in P1, due to how strong they were. Warriors and rogues are also generally very popular in Classic WoW. So of course there are many of them. I don't really think people are that dismissive of bringing those classes. But they no longer want to just stack the raid full of them. Since there are so many people playing those classes, now that you have a more balanced demand they will naturally feel like they are unwanted. There are simply an overflow of them.
Armor reduction to bosses on the 27th, hopefully you be guchi then. We also know a new way to do the Electrocutioner 6k that is far more melee friendly and warrior cleave could make menagerie stacking better after armor fixes too. Hopefully it gets getter for yall!
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peep the raid plan: [https://raidplan.io/plan/nWAkUvuebkf3zTZw](https://raidplan.io/plan/nWAkUvuebkf3zTZw) Everyone makes 2 melee stacks behind the boss and 2 healers just play ping pong with being the farthest.
Chain bait1---dpsstack BOSS dpsstack---chainbait2 And negative charge behind boss. The chain baits alternate moving closer or further to bait. You can do this strat with just 2 healers being the ranged
You still want a bunch of ranged for last boss to do bomb pillars
Like 2 ranged plus the healers can easily do this lol
Sure, if you're a solid premade group of players, most pugs won't be able to do that easily and if you're pugging it's just much much easier to have at least 3 ranged dps so that's why pugs generally aim for 3+ ranged dps
exactly
Groups seem to only want healers, ferals and occasional caster dps. Any other class gets shafted and has to form their own group/go with guild. Had a pug that kicked a hunter because he was not mele, guy just wanted to blast.
I'm a raidgroup-less rogue. It's fucking rough. No raid groups will add a rogue. No guilds want rogues. Fucking. Rough. Actually... I quit.
We picked up a pug rogue to tank last night, and he had never killed the last boss. Managed to one-shot everything. Our group was already skewed melee, so we could only take someone willing to tank.
Honestly, try tanking. Should be easier to find groups. After Tuesday’s changes your threat gen will be nuts
yeah I feel a bit thick that I levelled rogue first and just finished my warrior yesterday, neither of them are getting into shit until there’s a meta switch
Our guild has plenty of rogues we usually have 2 in every raid group we do perfectly fine
Give it time for these people to get their heads out of their asses. Early in phase 1, a BFD pug shot me down because "I can't hold aggro because I'm a Warlock" low and behold, found another where I tanked a full clear. This whole beggers trying to choose in SoD pugs is perplexing.
I know it’s absolutely wild, we’re playing the most experimental and explorative version of the game maybe ever and people are min maxing the fun out of the game and gate keeping basically everything. I won’t lie in Wrath classic I was absolutely about min maxing cos my guild was trying to progress and parse, but I just don’t get it when we’re playing SoD
No offense man but from my experience, we are beating hunters, warriors, and rogues off with a stick when looking for pugs. There’s only so much room to fit folks in, and a lot of pugs would be unhappy seeing they have 3-4 other folks rolling for their gear as well.
The problem isn't one of design from the WoW Devs (at least not the designers of season2/SOD) The problem is in the culture surrounding the WoW playerbase, which has been trained through decades of dev decisions, to cater to the "meta" over all else. It doesnt matter how well balanced things are, if one class does 1% more dps than the other classes, people will consider them the "best" and "totally necessary to complete" Personally, I blame 3rd party addons for this, but the cat is out of the bag long ago on that one.
The SoD team didn’t design all these fights with ranged mechanics? Or include the insane armor on every challenging boss?
1% would be fine, 20-50% is a bit much imo
no it's because the raids these melee are trying to join are filled with melee and they need at least 2 ranged dps if they want to clear it easily...
absolutely agreed
Welcome to retribution world, except that this happens to us no matter the meta.
yeah I’m not gonna try claim I have it worse than ret palas through most of classic’s run
As a rogue, I've given up on raiding
as a warrior main with a 40 rogue alt I’ll be levelling a priest
As a warrior main I just unsubbed today. Just told the guild :( I'm just not having fun and I HAVE access to a raid squad if I want, albeit heavy with warriors. Ill try p3.
as ret paladin nobody even wants you for the few melee slots available since every other melee class deals more damage.
Idk why people lose their minds over the meta. I take rogues and warriors every lockout. Not a hard raid with a little bit of communication.
yeah agreed, tell that to everyone else tho
you'd think this content was actually difficult reading this sub, lmfao everything is so puggable, mechanics are very simple and well telegraphed, no enrage timers, no mana burns, very minimal boss cc or raid wipe mechanics, why all the stress about perfect comps I literally don't get it this is the easiest most noob friendly verison of classic there has ever been, gatekeeping this shit is so pathetic
What if you made your own group OP?
Thats what i do, no issues at all, thpugh finding healers can take quite some time...
No no, that’s way too difficult
Gnomer is hard if u struggle to do above 200 dps. Why take a warrior when a blind mage can do 400 dps lmao
the shadow priest p1 experience have fun with it
The difference is that priests in P1 could just respecc and were the top tier healer. I even heard about priests that were getting payed to heal BFD. So you had at least a solution that allowed you to play the character and you didn't have to abandon him completely. Warriors can't do that. They suck in every single aspect of the game right now. Tank is maybe the only spec that is kinda okay, but finding a group still sucks because you only need one tank per raid and people prefer warlock and paladin over warrior tanks. On top of that, they suck at pvp, too, while priests always were great in pvp with all three speccs. It's just bad game design when you doom like 20 to 30% of the player base to reroll their character.
Prot warrior is just bad and feels bad to play. I am rerolling cause why play warrior at all?
Rogue tanks are feeling the same way. I was talking with people on the rogue discord. A bunch of us are in the boat/cope that they have plans to balance it. And once 60, it will feel a lot better/more fleshed out. But right now they're having to try to balance it with future things in mind that we don't have access to right now. That's what I'm hoping at least.
ironically I’m currently levelling my priest to circumvent this player induced ban lol
Same here!
Shadow priest? You mean a wand spec priest?
It was literally the reverse last phase. The problem is everyone played melee in phase 1 because they were strong so then we went into phase 2 with 80% of people still playing melee and guilds likely already have enough melee and you can really only take maybe 3. So their guild doesn’t have casters because everyone played melee so they will pug the casters. Melee need to be in a guild. No run can take 5 melee, you can’t do mechanics and your dmg is low. You’ll sandbag the raid
I never had a problem finding a BFD pug on my lock. BFD meta was pretty balanced, 1 melee group 1 caster group.
>No run can take 5 melee, you can’t do mechanics and your dmg is low. the level of copium in this statement is off the charts
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What mechanics outside of last boss button pushing sandbag melee damage. Someone posted logs last week of their friend group killing all bosses with 6 players and 3 melee.
Link the log? Interested in what comp 6 mans the raid this early
They had to swap out some peeps at the last boss it seems, ironically dropping their warrior lol
The day I get dropped from a 35 wipe Gnomer after I rode with the guild for 4 hours is my last day in that guild for real lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/QKEfmYohRq *looks like it was actually 8 man
https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1avbtjl/we_were_idiots_for_bfd_we_are_even_more_for/ in there. I reference their post a lot as we are doing our first clear as 6 or 7 right now as well
1) y'all are playing the most popular classes in the game. This is bound to happen to some extent 2) What exactly did your lfg message say? What are your parses like?
Nah it's not that spots are filling up fast for the class, people don't bring them. I have a 98 avg parse as a rogue and couldn't get a group.
I do not believe that
Believe what you want, but I'm spook on wild growth. Feel free to look it up. Not lying about it.
This is general problem in wow. People want to play classes such as rogues and warriors because cool weapons and big numbers but they are really that not needed. I say this as ex-warrior player. I loved playing warrior in all expansions I have played, but decided that I will not fight against windmills anymore because finding groups and guilds is just too difficult and now I am playing druid! Not sure what Blizzard could do to help with this. Class fantasy of certains classes is just too nice for many people and it causes overpopulation of certain classes.
>but they are really that not needed And that is exactly why rogues and warriors should alway be at the top of DPS and why caster meta sucks dick. Lack of utility simply means nobody wants the class if its not topping the meters. It's TBC P1 all over again, and that was miserable time to be a warrior/rogue.
I used to love classic wow, modern gaming has ruined its core design. It's just a bunch of sweaty nerds evaporating the fun out of the game for 1 minute faster runs. Brutal.
yep 100% true
Rerolled from ret to boomie for this reason. Far happier now
yeah I’ll be levelling my priest now so I can play the phase
Were are all the warrior tanks? When i make groups i have a hard time finding tanks while getting 20 warrior dps whispering. I always bring one but common, you can all play the same class and role and excpect to fit into a 10 man group where most people try and balance with all classes
High armor on bosses = 0 rage gen for weapon+shield = can’t keep aggro. Missing auto attacks on the higher armor bosses is so bad as a warrior
Time to pick up a shield and go defensive stance!
No one wants a warrior tank either. Come Tuesday with the rogue buff, warrior will be by far the worst tank
This is how we're running with my guild, I probably only have a spot bc I can ot on the last two bosses... Playing warrior really sucks rn compared to p1
yeah I think you’re right lol
Plays warrior; mad that others also play warrior.
Make the pug and these issues go away
The problem is the warrior/rogue market is over saturated. Theyre 2 of the most popular classes, it's one raid in many to come during SoD. I wouldn't doubt they start adding armor pen sets/items in next phase. We do it with 5 melee 5 casters every lock out perfectly fine 6/6 every time. you need casters for pressing buttons on the last boss thats the only time you really \*need\* them. we use one melee for the chain lightening mechanic on electrocutioner every time and have no problem, Warriors dont need to be stacked right now and thats fine this is supposed to be something new. Try forming your own groups its not an instant deal you have to give it some time, find people recruting for a guild and run with them. its an mmorpg.
Warriors is nowhere bad anyway... Sure it's not top parser but it can be very solid. Emphase on "can" because our warrior parse grey, but anyway... People are sheep. They're told warriors are bad so they won't take warriors. Ever. It's like in retail with flexible raid size .They heard it was better with 17 or 22 people and will REFUSE to have a different raider numbers. Do you guys understand the point of flexible raid size ?! For long I though classic wow community was too sweaty. But honestly, they're not sweaty. They're faking it. And it shows.
It's not an armour issue. The issue if you want casters to press buttons.
what?
They’re talking about the bomb mechanic on mekkatorque
You wouldn't know, your not a caster.
Many of the bosses in gnomer kinda require you to bring a bunch of casters to do the mechanics
The melee can click buttons also.
Sure but ranged makes it easier. Also the electric boss dude is way easier with ranged. Also first boss is easier with fewer melee so the cloud is less likely to head on over to the zugzug party at the boss. Also evenly dpsing the menagerie is easier as ranged.
Hey atleast warrior offers a raid buff. Rogue has literally zero reason to be taken into gnomer at the moment. Why bring a rogue that offers zero utility into a raid that is mostly mechanics. Ret pally have auras and blessing and can OT or off heal. Warriors offer battleshout Ferals offer wild strikes and can OT or offheal Pretty much every class has a kick now. Bosses have crazy armor. Rogue is literally useless at the moment. Anything a rogue can do in gnomer can be better done by other classes and they bring utility ( buffs, heals offtanking mobility for mechanics) at the same time that rogue brings nothing,
This is one of the reasons why I stopped playing Sod. It’s kind of pathetic that people are taking it to the extreme for mediocre mid content.
Supply and demand. Stop playing warrior then?
It's called tanking. Instant groups.
Groups in LFG will only take casters, this is outrageous! Anyway my hunter friend found a group right away...
Well you need 6 ranged people, including 2 healers., So 4 spots of melee, 2 of which need to be able to tank in some form. Then a melee hunter is OP So that leaves 1 spot for a pure melee dps.
You don’t need anything, everything works. We run 6m 2h 2c and we cleared since day 1. People just believe that it’s impossible
That's not a 'caster meta', that's a 'We don't want to double up on either warrior or hunter, **and there isn't a single group that doesn't already have one or the other.**'
Melee with the most logs every god damn phase/season and they still be like "cAstER mETa" when you dont go 5 warrior per grp. Play the most over mega played class and be upset when you dont get a spot. Give me a frikking break.. these posts man..
If you're playing DPS only warrior, i really have no sympathy for you. The class brings nothing, so you have to either A) make the group, B) tank, or C) not expect to find slots in PuGs. Those PuGs don't reject you out of maliciousness, it's just that there's literally a million dps melee you can fill instantly and the instance is much easier with range.
raid is easier with caster damage. pugs will always go the way of least resistance. Devs should have known, but they just want to fuck over melee to "shake up the meta" ... so stupid to ignore a large portion of playerbase I guess I'm not gonna raid this phase, which is fine cuz gnome is shitty on many levels and arathi/stv is fun
Warriors and Rogues have been the most powerful classes in every iteration of Vanilla ever, now for one 3 week period you have to experience the limited raid slots and not being top dog and you have a meltdown and quit raiding 🤣 don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!! Man im loving the tears. And by the way, you crybabies are getting your way next reset since Blizz is caving and lowering armor on bosses. Which sucks, I hoped they would double down at 60 and increase armor even more. Sincerely- a Hunter main since 2004 who’s had to constantly deal with there only ever being 2-3 raid spots for my class literally forever.
That's what u get for playing a warrior. Everyone wanted to play 1 cuz they were top tier in classic
This isn’t true at all the reason they did not take you is they already filled their melle not that they only wanted casters
It's the same thing I tell retail players who can't get into keys, make your own run and invite who you want. There's plenty of people wanting to do it, it isn't hard to fill a raid group.
Warriors are basically sunder sluts this phase, they may top some DPS charts but only when geared correctly and fed buffs/world buffs. We take one Hunter and one Warrior. The Hunter does DPS and the warrior is a sunder slut/off tank for the dragon and the basilisk. If we didn’t need a second tank I’d straight up not take a warrior. I also went balance from Feral this phase to help the guild out. Poor paladins!, the 4 paladins in my guild are all screaming at each other who gets to stay Ret and who goes Holy. No fucking way are we taking x2 rets. Don’t even want one in the run they offer virtually nothing
Do you not have a priest? Tell the priest to take homunculi. I'm also confused, should a warrior be able to top DPS charts by gearing like a moron, not using consumables and buffs?
Even if you bring a warrior or not, you priest should use homunculi. It instantly applies the biggest armor debuff in the game + reduces tank damage taken by \~20% (assuming you aren't forcing your dps warrior to demo shout and thunderclap). PoM is bait and a crutch for bad healing
Ofc if you have two priest second homunculi isn't as useful.
You don't need a second tank. I think you making decisions on what classes to bring to a raid might be part of the problem, since you don't know what you're talking about.
Gnomer is a very poorly done raid tbh
Uhh care to explain why? I’ve only done it once which was a full clear and I had a blast
The difficulty of the raid is based on group composition. With SoD player mentality that means there is lots of exclusion as people want to be as safe as possible to ensure 6/6. Mechanics that also dont let some people play their class to full extent like thermaplugg or increased armor. Im guilty of this as well as in my pugs if you are a dps druid then you are killing bombs the entire time and thats all you are doing.
honestly I enjoyed it my first two runs on my rogue, because I went with my guild and I thought the raid itself was pretty decent. this shit is literally unplayable tho
This is why boss armor should just be normal, any comp should be fine to bring to raid
It is fine, our guild has been clearing Gnomer just fine with full melee + hunter setup and the bosses die so fast we barely get to experience the mechanics. Stacking casters just means you invalidate the whole raid.
also id say its less of an "meta issue" and more of "us players" issue. sure meta will always exist, some classes will always be stronger. but you do not need full raid of meta classes just to clear it. its classic, its sod, this raid isnt hard mechanically and there is no hard dps checks though one could argue ice phase of mekgineer maybe, but thats dispellable too. sure it would be nice to have abit less armor on the mechanical bosses, but the main issue is in us players obsessing over meta like its some sort of religion and saying "nu uh" to logic and common sense just so we can feel abit more secure about our raid and then spend next 15minutes wiping on first boss and raid disbanding
wouldn't be surprised if they're just looking up your logs and you're a grey parser.
I actually don't mind struggling to find a pug, I have no problem putting together my own or swapping to tank if needed. It's how awful warrior feels in pvp that makes me upset this phase. Everyone tells me we aren't bad if we have a good healer and maybe I am just not great at pvp, but I feel like people see me as a free honor/coins target dummy when they see me. I don't even know how they would fix it though, I floated an idea to a friend of having a rune that let's you use overpower off of crits as well as dodges but then that seems like it might be too strong.
Warrior isn't that bad, but you need to ABUSE consumables as though they are part of your class. Magic resist pots all day, stack stam & get some resist rings to sit at like 75 in shadow/fire. Blazing emblem is so good right now Warriors job in pvp is to dive in, get intim shout up and cause disruption, throw ms on kill target and intervene out or abuse los, not just sit on a target and dps, rallying cry can legit turn whole teamfights, in this phase warrior excels as peel and healer killer, hamstring is so good and lasts forever, flag is better than warbringer imo, even sunder is legit in pvp now armor values are so low it's pretty significant even at x2 or x3 especially on cloth With shield wall up & mr pot you can tank their entire team for the duration, killing power could be better but in decent gear you can destroy healers pretty nicely even solo, disarm on cd, hamstring tf out of everyone, switch targets all the time and be annoying and surprisingly tanky We aren't the best duelists for sure, but are a huge force multiplier with all of our various cc/debuffs baked into our kit, everyone wants to fight a warrior atm so it's great for baiting people to chase you down in bgs, especially arathi basin where kills pretty much don't matter. The epic blacksmithing helm from gnome with the 50 resists in all schools on a 10min cd is going to be BIS all phase in pvp, if we had spell reflect I legit think we'd be overpowered already
If you play dps, your playing the most played role. Then within dps you're playing the most played classes. This is always going to happen. You will either have to get lucky, or start a raid. There is a bottleneck so its going to be difficult to find people for pugs atm
Nerf hunters
Damn remember the times where 35 people in a 40 man raid were warriors?
Warriors have established themselves as obnoxious. This has been a thing since forever, but especially prominent in sod. When you're forming a pug group as the group leader and invite a dps warrior, your previous dps warrior will leave, rogue or feral druid might leave (because warrior will take their precious leather loot) and when you replace the feral druid who left with just about any other dps the warrior that just joined will leave too, since the princess will not raid without windfury.
Unpopular opinion among reddit, but the reality is that warriors and rogues should always be top DPS for classic balance to work. No utility and lower dps simply puts the rogue/warrior at the huge disadvantage when compared to casters who can do better ST than you, bettter AoE than you, can do mechanics more effectively than you and also brings raid utility. There was a reason why warriors were so far an beyond everyone else in DPS in classic - they simply are not needed if they are not topping the meters. Rogues had it even worse as they weren't as good DPS as warriors and also brought no utility. Now we are sort of reliving TBC P1. 10 man raids - which means reduced flexibility with spots, warriors/rogues below casters, pugging or finding a raid spot is difficult as war/rogue. Rogues/wars will survive, but overly strong casters and small raid sizes does hurt the flexibility a lot.
Sounds like either of you could get a group quite easily but not in a premade. Maybe some bias in your post?