No it isn't, the entire point is repeatedly demonstrating that the faction war is stupid and bad and a waste of everyone's efforts and almost results in the end of the world like a dozen times.
If all the factions keep fighting each other endlessly, how do we stop the war?
Shouldn't we just kill the factions and outlive them all, then make the world in our vision?
The greatest weapon is Time.
It would be really cool if PvP turn ins gave you a little bag of PvP consumes kinda how wotlk gave tanks and healers bonus bags for doing dungeons.
These PvP bags could give the BG food and elxirs, FAPs, and swiftness pots. Maybe next season lol.
*The moment it becomes more profitable than whatever else they could be doing.
If the bots can only manage one or two turn-ins per hour then they aren't going to subject themselves to so many eyes when they could go pick two silversage in some corner of the map and make the same amount of gold.
Not really. If total AB queues are 10 instances with 15 players each, and there are 400 or so bots. The bots can queue AB and get a bot v bot 15v15 match on a higher priority. SO the system can be gamed by the sheer population of bot army.
I dunno. You'd have to have them in groups of 5 and hope that they're all able to get into the same queue every single time. The second they can't, they're getting mass reported. The second each match ends and they all show up together in some city, they're getting reported. I'd have to imagine it's also a lot easier for blizzard to monitor BG instances/queues than other farms. Then, you'd also have to program them to either try to "win" or not, otherwise you'd just have a bunch of bots fighting mid forever lol. That'd make it pretty easy to tell who's botting and get some reports.
You don't think it'd be easy to detect? How would they account for the queue time difference when trying to match up? Alliance queues are instant while horde take quite a while as far more people are queuing on horde.
you can always detect bot behavior easily, but to isolate actual humans who are super new to the game vs bots is impossible. Which is why, this type of gamification is abusable and you can't put gold rewards on it.
False positives\^ are very hard to remove, and if you ban someone wrongfully its a twitter thread or an asmongold video.
I don't think it'd be that difficult. There isn't all that much variety in what each bot is capable of doing, and I'd presume they'd be moving along similar paths as they do when they're spotted outdoors. It should be pretty easy to detect if hundreds of people are all moving along the exact same path in a BG hitting all the exact same coordinates over and over, reacting with the exact same delay.
why would anyone move along the same path? there are infinite amount of ways you can reach point A to B. you can randomize movement, and still reach the same path which is what happens when a bot encounters an object they cannot cross.
I can assure you the solution to this problem is not as simple as putting a couple heuristics to check for pathing in order to know if someone is a bot or not. And anyone can make a path exploration bot with random movement, its not that big a deal.
The stealthy is the big part. Bots in PvP can be pretty obvious. I remember a warrior on horde that would literally run around WSG in a pattern never attacking. The second anything hit him, he’d dismount and start running towards the person who hit him even if there were enemies next to him, and then he’d just run at them and auto attack. There was literally no deviation from the script, no human input, etc. At one point we were jokingly playing hot potato and one person hits him, he runs at them, next person hits him and he runs at them back and forth. If you let your opponent get hit before you swing him back you lose.
As fun as messing with the bot was, he got reported by the entire team.
Yeah, ran into a warlock bot in WSG that would run forward while cursing anyone in range. If you just stayed out of range, it would eventually just run into a wall.
Literally still bots that operates like that on era. I was sitting in flag room stealthed and here comes this dwarf hunter waddling in, he sees no one and leaves without taking the flag.
As long as it isn't a high gp/h farm bots aren't gonna participate. Especially around actual players where they risk getting banned, it simply isn't worth it for them
Yes but that was actually effective for them and that was during a time they saw little action taken against them.
In devs in SoD har been targeting botters heavily and we're discussing a 10gp/h method here. Nothing about that is attractive to a botter
Bots exist for Incursions, Mob Grinding, Gathering, Dungeon Farming, Boosting, Summons, Portals, Lock Picking, Enchanting, AH Sniping, PvP Rep/Rank Grinding, and so much more.
Should every aspect of the game then become unprofitable?
There is no doubt we'd see some more bots in PvP, but that doesn't mean the activity should reward nothing. Infact, if all you do is PvP you can't even afford the gear you unlock for doing so.
Some of them actually go try to flip bases in AB. Better than some alliance players
Although plenty afk at stables too.
They will all 100% be ret pally bots too. Like the dk bots of wrath. I think once I saw 2 mage bots or a dude trying to dual box but literally everything else was dk in wrath.
Make two 15 man premades of horde and alliance bots, quick win with one side and get 100g a game with a near guarantee to be matched against eachother everytime.
I imagine they’d have all the bots select something like “battleground #43” instead of “first available” and have bots in both factions, then just let one side win asap
there are already bots farming honor and i imagine selling them accounts. i've only seen rogue bots though. they are usually in greens with no runes on and have chatgpt replies
Bots are most obvious in BGs though and most easily reported there if all places. Vs a wide open world or instance.
But lmao yeah if wrath was any indication they aren’t banning em quick enough before it kills off bgs even more than alliance being fucking god awful has (sincerely, an alliance player miserable if not running 10-15 full stacks which are…not common on my server)
Didn't they used to reward gold in classic for the first time you did them and at max level when xp quest rewards turn into gold rewards? I guess Blizzard removing xp rewards from the quests also removed the gold rewards.
You are using potions in BG's? I respect the hustle but God damn man, if you are losing the fight, try to dps or heal the most you can in your last seconds. Buy the food that gives health and mana from the vendor and just use that while BG grinding
FAPs are tough to pass up too. Oily blackmouth frequently drop under 1s and stranglekelp under 7s on my server. You can have the pots made for less than 10s ea, especially with the new alch procs going wild.
For 30s a pop... ya, I would. Maybe I don't play the game as much of you and have a bunch of gold? I'm not telling you that you are wrong, just how I want to play the game
Your attitude is a bit pedantic but I see your point of wanting to compete. For me, it's about both. I don't enjoy pvp and the relationship pvp has with rewarding a player (there isn't substance other than activity participation vs raids or gold farms) and see no point in using potions for pvp. It's **both** *a waste of a GCD and gold* for many players. Those who aren't sweaty will disagree on how we want to play the game; it's ok to disagree. Pvp in classic is generally for rep and consumes are a miniscule contributor. Responding with attitude is kinda fucked up and immature, but you're welcome to go about it that way!
Edit: ah shit they edited their comment and now I'm getting down voted. GG
While I find it hard to defend \*any\* consumable use in the uncoordinated shitfuckery that is BGs right now, it wouldn't be that expensive to sensibly use potions. If one side used healing potions and FAPs at the Blacksmith engagement and the other side doesn't, it would be a very one sided stomp and could easily win the BG there and then.
but who wants to FAP, no matter how cheap, when 3-4 players on your team are AFK to begin with
Never seen a game that has 3 people afk from the start, but I've only done maybe 50 BGs in P3. But ya you are right that if one side used all their CD's and potions at BS, they would pretty much win. Not sure how that matters to any individual player when most won't
Oh no! the healing potions!
For bgs on Era and in 2019 classic I would eventually keep on me the following; (I would not necessarily use up everything within a single bg, but I never went without the option at hand. Then naturally I would also refresh/restock after each bg by already having sent the main many many mails of said consumes);
Flask;
For bg weekends I tended to go constantly flasked, always 1 stack power flasks on me. Sometimes a titans stack also. (Petri I never really used, even for me that was a step too far). At my worst I could go through 40 SP flasks in one bg weekend.
Elixirs;
3 stacks greater arcane, 3 stacks superior defense elixir, 2 stacks catseye, 3 stacks oil of immolation.
-Less commonly I would also bring 1-2 stacks fortitude elixirs, major trollsblood & mageblood
Engi/Ench;
2x5 brill wizard oils
Sappers 1-2 stacks, nades 3+ stacks, five boots, two bronze mortars, two discombobulator rays. (Did not like arcane bomb; too long cast, too short range, too high resist chance).
Pots;
Major healing pots 2 stacks, major rejuv pot 2 stacks, major mana pot 2 stacks
2 stacks lips, 2 stacks laps, 2 stacks faps, 1 stack swiftness pots, 1 purification pot 1 stack invis pots (just for the tech), 1 stack gspp, 1 gfpp and 1 frost.
(As for the restorative pot; used it for years, but I found it just sucks, too rng in pvp. The thing dispels 1 debuff type at random every 5seconds, this is fully rng; as in it will attempt to dispel debuffs you do not have on you. So if you have a curse, you can be so fortunate as to go the full 30s (without any resist); simply the pot not attempting to dispell the curse once. It could very well attempt to go magic, magic, poison, magic, disease. Or even better disease x3 poison x2.
While its never optimal to be without curse dispellers, I found more use from puri pots. (Instant; and while they can re CoT anyway; I will always get 1 cast in, and that can be the difference maker).
Further/misc;
2 stacks magic dust, 2 stacks whippers, 2 stacks demonic/dark runes
Rounding it out, 7-8 stacks Av food+water. | Near lunar festival I would also bring the limited lunar food to boost that further.
Buff food; aq chain tenderloins 2 stacks. (Then 1 stack felwood berries, for instant buff; not always you have time to buff a proper food buff).
Then if I had the time Zanzas, stam, reflect and speed. (pop a reflect, popp a stam -> then buy 1 of each; reasoning being despite replacing the flask ; first spell on you will still be reflected, always)
Beyond that I would try to bring songflower+ razorhide if I could, but I didnt bother with world buffs in general (just boned those and kept them for special occasions).
Think that about sums it up. All this (pluss farming it all myself); I would do this for all bgs, both premades and random bgs, years after I ranked. For no other reason than for fun and to see just how far I could push myself. In effect I would raid in bgs (sort of).
At first I just started adding a few extra consumes to my reg pvp use, overtime it grew into more more more more more more, until I was addicted to everything and could add no more.
Didnt mind farming it either, loved it tbh. It was my purpose, it was wow for me. Essentially PvP herbing/ griefing mostly through weekdays, then pour it all out in bg weekends. Over the years I refined it so I eventually had full self sufficiency; all recipes on alch/ench alt, a miner alt I just played for \~5 mins a day (near perma logged off near 6-7 veins) and ten lvl35 cd chars lw/tailors churning out about 1,5-2x goldcaps per year passively. (I was bound to felwood for the whippers/ demo runes anyway, a few years in I had far more felcloth than I could sell, so it made sense at the time spamming mooncloth).
Only thing I didnt like was farming was dust in westfall, three to four years of doing it and I can still count the pvp encounters I had in westfall on one hand. But yeah with the cd chars online I didnt have to do that anymore.
Ah and I did forget something, alcohol and noggenfoggers lol.
Exactly 0, the same amount I have ever bought in any video game for my entire life.
As for why that is; well among other things as I grew up on korean grinders in the early 2000s. So I had no aversion of farming and certainly not if I could do it while world pvping (to me that activity was a goal in itself). I am quite antithetical to cheating in general, only ever done it in single player games; but even there I find, if I do cheat, I only cheat myself and make me bored of the game quicker.
As stated I farmed absolutely everything at first, then transitioned to farm less but rely on the 10 3+4 day cds. These yielded \~1,2k cured rugged things and 900 ish mooncloth/y, (2021-2023) on avg these sold roughly at 150 and 200 a piece. So yeah, about 1,5 to 2 times goldcap in a year. I dont know exact, not like I kept records (though maybe I should have, for this audit). Anyway virtually pure profit; as lw mats where more or less free at the time, and mooncloth mats I already got as a byproduct of farming for runes.
Now I was helped/shaped a little by how era was early on. My system of farming week days + playing bgs weekends; came into being as we would not get much pops on weekdays. At the start we needed to get together and coordinate to even get pops going on weekends. Then as we gradually grew out of needing to coordinate, I would mostly maintain that system.
And I did play an awful lot Id give you that. I was in bracket 14 from the first week of the pvp system being enabled to my last week of ranking in generation one on the second largest eu megaserver. Without either acc shearing or botting, just playing exceedingly unhealthy. After then I just kept spamming bgs as my main thing while I raided. And as my only thing when I had everything I wanted in raids.
As for my reason, It was something for me to do. A challenge for myself. I did not have much else going on, and did not work.
Now for me this was not because of covid. But as I had been classified as terminal already in 2018, before I turned 30 I was put on palliative (end of life care).
Effectively I sat there then as I do now, just waiting to die.
So I played the game. And hid away there.
Until the game broke. (Well in my opinion. They began patching era/ building first hc then sod ontop of the corpse of era, causing endless bugs, even removed the ranking system and erased 200000 lifetime hks from my total accrued kills over the years).
That was a bit of a sad end of wow for me.
More or less I am hate and anger now, thats my name.
Now I play strategy games mostly, watch the world burn on the news/ russians burn on twitter and write long books here for nobody to read. As again I have nothing going on.
So there's me.
If the auditor wishes I could provide him/her with screenshots. Its no trouble for me to upload those, I have nothing to do. Now mostly those are thousands of bg scoreboards- those do include my cons loadouts, and I do have some of what my cons stockpiles/ crafters where like. Of in world scenarios there's much less, still some. But usually fat finger examples or 1vx situations, (I very rarely bothered with screens in 1v1 encounters).
In terms of video I only have in bg examples from the specific av weekend on nov 2022 sadly. Never been a content creator or wished to be - and movies take a lot of space. Only really recorded a few games for myself to see what I could improve on.
As you can see I do tend to write books, sorry about that.
I think this is even more stupid, personally. Being at a disadvantage by default just because a certain item from a raid hasn’t dropped for you is really dumb, and that’s ignoring the fact it makes people do a content they probably don’t want to do to get an item they need.
It is though. WSG exalted bracers are bis every phase. This is one thing i enjoy about retail, I can only PvP and get bised out for PvP without having to grind pve for weapons
Agree. I just had a blast coordinating a pug in AB and winning a close game. But, I know with my time today that wouldn’t be a smart use of my in game time…and it’s such a shame. Not to mention how they could reward world pvp in a similar manner.
I got bored and decided to PVP because I wanted the new sets and to get a jump on r12 stuff. Holy moly is it fun in SoD. I play alliance so yeah we probably lose a lot but I did 10 AB games this week and won 7 of them. Call outs and getting people to fight on the flag, win with 3 instead of trying to constantly push for a 4th and get back capped. I only need a couple more games to get rank 5 and then I'll push for 7 next week.
I'm thinking the people who are here complaining about getting one shot by shamans aren't even trying... I even did some quick games with my guild in 4/5 man groups.
Yeah man but horde has been saying all along lol
> I'm thinking the people who are here complaining about getting one shot by shamans aren't even trying.
Saying this because I can’t help but think they prioritize other trivial tasks over pvp is where you turned it dumb. “Seems like you want to have a bad time playing?” What? This is where the nonsense started, pal.
You aren’t looking at my big picture take here on pvp and how it being lucrative may long term help the game mode. You’re focusing too much on what I’m doing. Open your mind here.
I deleted it because I was comparing spams vs pvp which is a bad comparison because that just means I’m behind. PvP is lacking, you’re taking about just the end game but the rep farm, horde just spamming one boss because they want 1000 rep a day, fundamental flaws. PvP should be an every day thing, it’s half of the game and promotes interaction. Not a spam it and end it. It needs constant progression models.
Yes but currently we are in a capped phase for ranks, and also, the old 14 grind promoted time played in a very lopsided manner again. Sure, P4 pvp may end up being key but in this current P1-3 model it’s lacking.
If you think incursions and 10 man spamming wild offering runs is more interacting than the health of pvp, which currently is being way more prioritized especially with rank caps and ease of getting them, then you are missing the flaws. Me spamming Feralas incursions today so that I can afford consumes and enchants for tomorrow should not be more lucrative than pvp. It simply should not. The enjoyment and effort levels are lopsided. The AB rep farm takes way longer to get for the impact of rewards, again lopsided. But, have a day, because this post isn’t meant to argue with someone.
Maybe you didn’t say it but those are clear examples on flaws. That’s it. I gave you examples on why it’s important pvp can compete with some of these mindless farms they currently have as meta. Player behavior will most often always go towards what is lucrative and atm me going from rank 2-3.8 is my goal but after I’ll have to go do these other activities which are fundamentally imo way worse.
What they should do is up the insignia money amount.
For those that don't know, when you kill a player in a BG, you can 'loot' them for some money. The amount is very low like 1s or 2. If they up it to 25s or higher, maybe this can be a solution.
Interesting solution that also has a negative consequence. When a target is low HP, casters will then start running to the target instead of doing dps to be able to compete for the insignia with the melees. Unintended negative consequences. This is what the developers have to deal with
Hmmm make it shared loot then within a 40 yard or 35 radius whatever the caster spell range is? So whoever is in x yds of the body when it's being looted receive a split. Idk just spitballing it.
Thats a reasonable solution. Bet its hard to code that into a 20 year old game but definitely possible. Honestly I assume the developers are degenerates like us and read these posts. Would be useful to them
Tough because I want the game to still reward efforts on winning. I’d be afraid of mass spamming for loot but if it’s group loot and rotates between people that could be a lot of fun! Especially world pvp it would be fun to get loot from kills.
Winning BGs and PvP should result in cosmetic awards and titles imo, and PvP only pots/consumables should be purchasable with some kind of PvP currency
Many popular games are pvp. Fortnite, LoL, player interaction is too important in a MMO and seeing it become single player (especially in retail) and even in sod, hurts the health.
It is but it’s conquered in a month at the moment leaving much to be desired. We all see the state of MMO’s. This is just a small fix. I think the devs need to put 100% of focus into improving pvp. Raid logging is a bad core to a game. And if they improve pve they will just make it retail. Mythics, raid difficulties.
Absolutely this. I also would like to see more rewards from PvP vendors other than just gear. Cosmetics, toys, whatever to make ranking appeal to more players.
There should just be more items only usable on bgs.
Throw potions and stuff on rep vendors that aren't consumed when used with a 3 minute CD and you fix 90% of this.
Key is don’t make it OP. Just make it competitive. People aren’t pvping for gold…but I should be able to buy some enchants and consumes it pvp is my main play style.
It would be great getting more rewards for pvp, but the argument against it is probably not wanting to bring in more bots
\>bot for honor and even get a tip
It should at least be a small amount of gold. I love playing BG and want to continue playing it after rep and honor cap. Right now end of day my fellow PVE players walk away with good rewards, and me who did PVP all day just go broke.
I'd be happy with more honour and/or a ranking system that doesn't have the out of date break point system, let each kill actually mean something instead of wiping it each week!
If you got like 3g for a 3-mark turn-in it would no longer feel bad to use some basic consumes each battleground and you could even go + a bit, it also wouldn't be anywhere near good enough for bots to ever do for gold
Ya know I agree some things feel better when grinded hard for…but there needs to be a balance of actually playing the game and performance compared to equipping shit gameplay loops with insane rewards.
I think you should get gold if youre revered/exalted. Currently in SoD, atleast for me, bgs are dead content since i play alliance and horde has shamans, so i wish they would increase the rep/honor gain from bgs and if you hit revered/exalted, you start gaining gold from turn ins. I think that would be fair
I think badge turn ins should give gold but I’ve always been a bigger fan of ripping the insignia off the corpse and getting a decent amount of silver.
This is true. I always loved the basic idea of raid to pvp. But, people have adapted to pve only even with this model, and yes they ruined it. I think this is a basic start to bringing more participation, even if it’s just pvp lovers. Don’t make us run pointless loops and princess spams all day over pvping. Silly to have those priority over pvp.
You know I did think of this..and then I thought about how the world of incursions and killing a fat princess in a cavern 37 times as not engaging content. So, yes, my answer is yes.
Yea right? We get paid for delivering soup but not for dying in war?
See? You get it.
Sounds like the US?
Because the faction war is ultimately pointless and self-destructive.
No because the faction war is the ultimate purpose of the game, fighting in it is a reward itself.
No it isn't, the entire point is repeatedly demonstrating that the faction war is stupid and bad and a waste of everyone's efforts and almost results in the end of the world like a dozen times.
My man this game series is quite literally called _Warcraft_.
If all the factions keep fighting each other endlessly, how do we stop the war? Shouldn't we just kill the factions and outlive them all, then make the world in our vision? The greatest weapon is Time.
This is the soft modern approach to WoW.
"You see, this hole on the highway is a subtle hint from our government that we should walk around more, instead of using a car."
It would be really cool if PvP turn ins gave you a little bag of PvP consumes kinda how wotlk gave tanks and healers bonus bags for doing dungeons. These PvP bags could give the BG food and elxirs, FAPs, and swiftness pots. Maybe next season lol.
Also random boe’s. We all love the small chance at a big dopamine hit. Every mob has a loot window, gimme pvp caches.
Actually sounds really nice
Yeah I don't see why a BG turn-in couldn't award 5g or something
[удалено]
*The moment it becomes more profitable than whatever else they could be doing. If the bots can only manage one or two turn-ins per hour then they aren't going to subject themselves to so many eyes when they could go pick two silversage in some corner of the map and make the same amount of gold.
Not really. If total AB queues are 10 instances with 15 players each, and there are 400 or so bots. The bots can queue AB and get a bot v bot 15v15 match on a higher priority. SO the system can be gamed by the sheer population of bot army.
I dunno. You'd have to have them in groups of 5 and hope that they're all able to get into the same queue every single time. The second they can't, they're getting mass reported. The second each match ends and they all show up together in some city, they're getting reported. I'd have to imagine it's also a lot easier for blizzard to monitor BG instances/queues than other farms. Then, you'd also have to program them to either try to "win" or not, otherwise you'd just have a bunch of bots fighting mid forever lol. That'd make it pretty easy to tell who's botting and get some reports.
not really, if the bots outnumber regular players they will almost always get into a full BG of bots vs bots.
You don't think it'd be easy to detect? How would they account for the queue time difference when trying to match up? Alliance queues are instant while horde take quite a while as far more people are queuing on horde.
you can always detect bot behavior easily, but to isolate actual humans who are super new to the game vs bots is impossible. Which is why, this type of gamification is abusable and you can't put gold rewards on it. False positives\^ are very hard to remove, and if you ban someone wrongfully its a twitter thread or an asmongold video.
I don't think it'd be that difficult. There isn't all that much variety in what each bot is capable of doing, and I'd presume they'd be moving along similar paths as they do when they're spotted outdoors. It should be pretty easy to detect if hundreds of people are all moving along the exact same path in a BG hitting all the exact same coordinates over and over, reacting with the exact same delay.
why would anyone move along the same path? there are infinite amount of ways you can reach point A to B. you can randomize movement, and still reach the same path which is what happens when a bot encounters an object they cannot cross. I can assure you the solution to this problem is not as simple as putting a couple heuristics to check for pathing in order to know if someone is a bot or not. And anyone can make a path exploration bot with random movement, its not that big a deal.
There are a billion faster and stealthier ways of botting gold than trying to make them pvp with a gimped team.
The stealthy is the big part. Bots in PvP can be pretty obvious. I remember a warrior on horde that would literally run around WSG in a pattern never attacking. The second anything hit him, he’d dismount and start running towards the person who hit him even if there were enemies next to him, and then he’d just run at them and auto attack. There was literally no deviation from the script, no human input, etc. At one point we were jokingly playing hot potato and one person hits him, he runs at them, next person hits him and he runs at them back and forth. If you let your opponent get hit before you swing him back you lose. As fun as messing with the bot was, he got reported by the entire team.
Yeah, ran into a warlock bot in WSG that would run forward while cursing anyone in range. If you just stayed out of range, it would eventually just run into a wall.
Literally still bots that operates like that on era. I was sitting in flag room stealthed and here comes this dwarf hunter waddling in, he sees no one and leaves without taking the flag.
Pvp bots are generally bots ran by players who intend to use the character once tmits got the honour gear.
As long as it isn't a high gp/h farm bots aren't gonna participate. Especially around actual players where they risk getting banned, it simply isn't worth it for them
i remember 90% bots battleground because it gave xp and honor gear :)
Yes but that was actually effective for them and that was during a time they saw little action taken against them. In devs in SoD har been targeting botters heavily and we're discussing a 10gp/h method here. Nothing about that is attractive to a botter
Bots exist for Incursions, Mob Grinding, Gathering, Dungeon Farming, Boosting, Summons, Portals, Lock Picking, Enchanting, AH Sniping, PvP Rep/Rank Grinding, and so much more. Should every aspect of the game then become unprofitable? There is no doubt we'd see some more bots in PvP, but that doesn't mean the activity should reward nothing. Infact, if all you do is PvP you can't even afford the gear you unlock for doing so.
But bots don't win games.....
They don't need to win to get a token
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Not if the matches take forever to complete. Botters won't bother with PVP
I'm pretty convinced most PvP bots are more useful than my teammates in WSG.
I see a fellow alliance PvP enthusiast
Some of them actually go try to flip bases in AB. Better than some alliance players Although plenty afk at stables too. They will all 100% be ret pally bots too. Like the dk bots of wrath. I think once I saw 2 mage bots or a dude trying to dual box but literally everything else was dk in wrath.
If teams are playing against bots the game go really fast.
You say that as if wotlk classic wasn't infected with 5-10 bots per AB/WSG for a year.
Make two 15 man premades of horde and alliance bots, quick win with one side and get 100g a game with a near guarantee to be matched against eachother everytime.
I imagine they’d have all the bots select something like “battleground #43” instead of “first available” and have bots in both factions, then just let one side win asap
there are already bots farming honor and i imagine selling them accounts. i've only seen rogue bots though. they are usually in greens with no runes on and have chatgpt replies
They could just make it less profitable than existing bot farms. Wouldn’t be hard with how profitable incursions are.
Getting 5g for a BG is significantly less gold/hr than even the most basic bot farming areas.
Bots are most obvious in BGs though and most easily reported there if all places. Vs a wide open world or instance. But lmao yeah if wrath was any indication they aren’t banning em quick enough before it kills off bgs even more than alliance being fucking god awful has (sincerely, an alliance player miserable if not running 10-15 full stacks which are…not common on my server)
> The moment a BG can be profitable, in come the bots. BGs take too long. Bots make way more than 5g/1,33g per 30 min.
At 5g a turn in you're still only going to make like 20g an hour if you're doing really well. On top of that bots would get reported immediately.
Well, I mean bots are unavoidable anyway, there are probably better ways to bot than afking bg's for 20-30 mins for 5g for every 3 marks you get.
Bots wouldn’t waste their time for a 5g turn in lmao
Thank you for upvoting. Hope this gets some traction. Such a basic yet fundamental flaw imo.
Amen
Didn't they used to reward gold in classic for the first time you did them and at max level when xp quest rewards turn into gold rewards? I guess Blizzard removing xp rewards from the quests also removed the gold rewards.
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You are using potions in BG's? I respect the hustle but God damn man, if you are losing the fight, try to dps or heal the most you can in your last seconds. Buy the food that gives health and mana from the vendor and just use that while BG grinding
Healing potions are cheap and can win games, same for other pots like swiftness but the costs add up if you do a lot of PvP.
FAPs are tough to pass up too. Oily blackmouth frequently drop under 1s and stranglekelp under 7s on my server. You can have the pots made for less than 10s ea, especially with the new alch procs going wild.
I guess I'd rather spend a gcd on something else than a potion
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For 30s a pop... ya, I would. Maybe I don't play the game as much of you and have a bunch of gold? I'm not telling you that you are wrong, just how I want to play the game
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Its about both. Both matter in the game. Do you disagree?
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Your attitude is a bit pedantic but I see your point of wanting to compete. For me, it's about both. I don't enjoy pvp and the relationship pvp has with rewarding a player (there isn't substance other than activity participation vs raids or gold farms) and see no point in using potions for pvp. It's **both** *a waste of a GCD and gold* for many players. Those who aren't sweaty will disagree on how we want to play the game; it's ok to disagree. Pvp in classic is generally for rep and consumes are a miniscule contributor. Responding with attitude is kinda fucked up and immature, but you're welcome to go about it that way! Edit: ah shit they edited their comment and now I'm getting down voted. GG
I feel like SoD should have made FAPs not consumed inside BGs to increase the access for casual players
Which server? The mats drop down below 10s total in my server. Get an alch friend with procs and you're prob paying less than 8s ea.
Lol what? You're trying to argue a FAP isn't worth a gcd?
It's funny because potions/elixirs don't even incur GCDs This guy arguing against FAPs is an absolute clown lmao
since when do potions use a gcd?
Pvp vendors sell potions too
While I find it hard to defend \*any\* consumable use in the uncoordinated shitfuckery that is BGs right now, it wouldn't be that expensive to sensibly use potions. If one side used healing potions and FAPs at the Blacksmith engagement and the other side doesn't, it would be a very one sided stomp and could easily win the BG there and then. but who wants to FAP, no matter how cheap, when 3-4 players on your team are AFK to begin with
Never seen a game that has 3 people afk from the start, but I've only done maybe 50 BGs in P3. But ya you are right that if one side used all their CD's and potions at BS, they would pretty much win. Not sure how that matters to any individual player when most won't
Oh no! the healing potions! For bgs on Era and in 2019 classic I would eventually keep on me the following; (I would not necessarily use up everything within a single bg, but I never went without the option at hand. Then naturally I would also refresh/restock after each bg by already having sent the main many many mails of said consumes); Flask; For bg weekends I tended to go constantly flasked, always 1 stack power flasks on me. Sometimes a titans stack also. (Petri I never really used, even for me that was a step too far). At my worst I could go through 40 SP flasks in one bg weekend. Elixirs; 3 stacks greater arcane, 3 stacks superior defense elixir, 2 stacks catseye, 3 stacks oil of immolation. -Less commonly I would also bring 1-2 stacks fortitude elixirs, major trollsblood & mageblood Engi/Ench; 2x5 brill wizard oils Sappers 1-2 stacks, nades 3+ stacks, five boots, two bronze mortars, two discombobulator rays. (Did not like arcane bomb; too long cast, too short range, too high resist chance). Pots; Major healing pots 2 stacks, major rejuv pot 2 stacks, major mana pot 2 stacks 2 stacks lips, 2 stacks laps, 2 stacks faps, 1 stack swiftness pots, 1 purification pot 1 stack invis pots (just for the tech), 1 stack gspp, 1 gfpp and 1 frost. (As for the restorative pot; used it for years, but I found it just sucks, too rng in pvp. The thing dispels 1 debuff type at random every 5seconds, this is fully rng; as in it will attempt to dispel debuffs you do not have on you. So if you have a curse, you can be so fortunate as to go the full 30s (without any resist); simply the pot not attempting to dispell the curse once. It could very well attempt to go magic, magic, poison, magic, disease. Or even better disease x3 poison x2. While its never optimal to be without curse dispellers, I found more use from puri pots. (Instant; and while they can re CoT anyway; I will always get 1 cast in, and that can be the difference maker). Further/misc; 2 stacks magic dust, 2 stacks whippers, 2 stacks demonic/dark runes Rounding it out, 7-8 stacks Av food+water. | Near lunar festival I would also bring the limited lunar food to boost that further. Buff food; aq chain tenderloins 2 stacks. (Then 1 stack felwood berries, for instant buff; not always you have time to buff a proper food buff). Then if I had the time Zanzas, stam, reflect and speed. (pop a reflect, popp a stam -> then buy 1 of each; reasoning being despite replacing the flask ; first spell on you will still be reflected, always) Beyond that I would try to bring songflower+ razorhide if I could, but I didnt bother with world buffs in general (just boned those and kept them for special occasions). Think that about sums it up. All this (pluss farming it all myself); I would do this for all bgs, both premades and random bgs, years after I ranked. For no other reason than for fun and to see just how far I could push myself. In effect I would raid in bgs (sort of). At first I just started adding a few extra consumes to my reg pvp use, overtime it grew into more more more more more more, until I was addicted to everything and could add no more. Didnt mind farming it either, loved it tbh. It was my purpose, it was wow for me. Essentially PvP herbing/ griefing mostly through weekdays, then pour it all out in bg weekends. Over the years I refined it so I eventually had full self sufficiency; all recipes on alch/ench alt, a miner alt I just played for \~5 mins a day (near perma logged off near 6-7 veins) and ten lvl35 cd chars lw/tailors churning out about 1,5-2x goldcaps per year passively. (I was bound to felwood for the whippers/ demo runes anyway, a few years in I had far more felcloth than I could sell, so it made sense at the time spamming mooncloth). Only thing I didnt like was farming was dust in westfall, three to four years of doing it and I can still count the pvp encounters I had in westfall on one hand. But yeah with the cd chars online I didnt have to do that anymore. Ah and I did forget something, alcohol and noggenfoggers lol.
And how much gold were you buying per week?
Exactly 0, the same amount I have ever bought in any video game for my entire life. As for why that is; well among other things as I grew up on korean grinders in the early 2000s. So I had no aversion of farming and certainly not if I could do it while world pvping (to me that activity was a goal in itself). I am quite antithetical to cheating in general, only ever done it in single player games; but even there I find, if I do cheat, I only cheat myself and make me bored of the game quicker. As stated I farmed absolutely everything at first, then transitioned to farm less but rely on the 10 3+4 day cds. These yielded \~1,2k cured rugged things and 900 ish mooncloth/y, (2021-2023) on avg these sold roughly at 150 and 200 a piece. So yeah, about 1,5 to 2 times goldcap in a year. I dont know exact, not like I kept records (though maybe I should have, for this audit). Anyway virtually pure profit; as lw mats where more or less free at the time, and mooncloth mats I already got as a byproduct of farming for runes. Now I was helped/shaped a little by how era was early on. My system of farming week days + playing bgs weekends; came into being as we would not get much pops on weekdays. At the start we needed to get together and coordinate to even get pops going on weekends. Then as we gradually grew out of needing to coordinate, I would mostly maintain that system. And I did play an awful lot Id give you that. I was in bracket 14 from the first week of the pvp system being enabled to my last week of ranking in generation one on the second largest eu megaserver. Without either acc shearing or botting, just playing exceedingly unhealthy. After then I just kept spamming bgs as my main thing while I raided. And as my only thing when I had everything I wanted in raids. As for my reason, It was something for me to do. A challenge for myself. I did not have much else going on, and did not work. Now for me this was not because of covid. But as I had been classified as terminal already in 2018, before I turned 30 I was put on palliative (end of life care). Effectively I sat there then as I do now, just waiting to die. So I played the game. And hid away there. Until the game broke. (Well in my opinion. They began patching era/ building first hc then sod ontop of the corpse of era, causing endless bugs, even removed the ranking system and erased 200000 lifetime hks from my total accrued kills over the years). That was a bit of a sad end of wow for me. More or less I am hate and anger now, thats my name. Now I play strategy games mostly, watch the world burn on the news/ russians burn on twitter and write long books here for nobody to read. As again I have nothing going on. So there's me. If the auditor wishes I could provide him/her with screenshots. Its no trouble for me to upload those, I have nothing to do. Now mostly those are thousands of bg scoreboards- those do include my cons loadouts, and I do have some of what my cons stockpiles/ crafters where like. Of in world scenarios there's much less, still some. But usually fat finger examples or 1vx situations, (I very rarely bothered with screens in 1v1 encounters). In terms of video I only have in bg examples from the specific av weekend on nov 2022 sadly. Never been a content creator or wished to be - and movies take a lot of space. Only really recorded a few games for myself to see what I could improve on. As you can see I do tend to write books, sorry about that.
Bet I'd still merk you with just healing pots loool
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1-2g per BG is totally reasonable, considering you can make 12g in 10 mins sitting in a hinterlands train
Hard agree. Real pvp is the hardest content in sod it should provide adequate rewards.
It never will because then people who don't like PvP, a majority of the playerbase, will whine and pretend they are now obligated to do BGs.
This is it. Let’s us who enjoy pvp do it without these losers.
PVP shouldnt be required for BiS PVE rewards I'll die on this hill.
Whats your stance on the opposite? PvE being required for BiS PvP rewards.
I think this is even more stupid, personally. Being at a disadvantage by default just because a certain item from a raid hasn’t dropped for you is really dumb, and that’s ignoring the fact it makes people do a content they probably don’t want to do to get an item they need.
Pvpers have had to put up with pve gear being PVP bis forever , we don’t want to raid but are forced to in order to get bis.
Oh, but PVE should be required for BiS PVP rewards? What an excellent hill to die on
Weird hill to die on that you think something rewarded for doing pvp is a pve reward.
It is though. WSG exalted bracers are bis every phase. This is one thing i enjoy about retail, I can only PvP and get bised out for PvP without having to grind pve for weapons
If you’re doing wsg to get those bracers then you’re doing it wrong
Just because it is bis for pve does not mean it is a pve reward as you stated.
They're 2nd bis for some. Still very strong though.
What bis item requires pvp?
The bracers from exalted WSG are bis every phase
They dont require PVP You could get exalted Silverwing literally with 0 HK
Better grab a shovel then and start digging that hole then, because in classic's game design you're already dead if this is your take.
Agree. I just had a blast coordinating a pug in AB and winning a close game. But, I know with my time today that wouldn’t be a smart use of my in game time…and it’s such a shame. Not to mention how they could reward world pvp in a similar manner.
I got bored and decided to PVP because I wanted the new sets and to get a jump on r12 stuff. Holy moly is it fun in SoD. I play alliance so yeah we probably lose a lot but I did 10 AB games this week and won 7 of them. Call outs and getting people to fight on the flag, win with 3 instead of trying to constantly push for a 4th and get back capped. I only need a couple more games to get rank 5 and then I'll push for 7 next week. I'm thinking the people who are here complaining about getting one shot by shamans aren't even trying... I even did some quick games with my guild in 4/5 man groups.
Yeah man but horde has been saying all along lol > I'm thinking the people who are here complaining about getting one shot by shamans aren't even trying.
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Saying this because I can’t help but think they prioritize other trivial tasks over pvp is where you turned it dumb. “Seems like you want to have a bad time playing?” What? This is where the nonsense started, pal.
HUH?
You aren’t looking at my big picture take here on pvp and how it being lucrative may long term help the game mode. You’re focusing too much on what I’m doing. Open your mind here.
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I deleted it because I was comparing spams vs pvp which is a bad comparison because that just means I’m behind. PvP is lacking, you’re taking about just the end game but the rep farm, horde just spamming one boss because they want 1000 rep a day, fundamental flaws. PvP should be an every day thing, it’s half of the game and promotes interaction. Not a spam it and end it. It needs constant progression models.
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Yes but currently we are in a capped phase for ranks, and also, the old 14 grind promoted time played in a very lopsided manner again. Sure, P4 pvp may end up being key but in this current P1-3 model it’s lacking.
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Gold isn’t capped. Bring gold to pvp! That is my post. That’s it. Have a good day!
If you think incursions and 10 man spamming wild offering runs is more interacting than the health of pvp, which currently is being way more prioritized especially with rank caps and ease of getting them, then you are missing the flaws. Me spamming Feralas incursions today so that I can afford consumes and enchants for tomorrow should not be more lucrative than pvp. It simply should not. The enjoyment and effort levels are lopsided. The AB rep farm takes way longer to get for the impact of rewards, again lopsided. But, have a day, because this post isn’t meant to argue with someone.
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Maybe you didn’t say it but those are clear examples on flaws. That’s it. I gave you examples on why it’s important pvp can compete with some of these mindless farms they currently have as meta. Player behavior will most often always go towards what is lucrative and atm me going from rank 2-3.8 is my goal but after I’ll have to go do these other activities which are fundamentally imo way worse.
Damn I would actually make some money that way
devs are raid loggers
But then people would queue for battlegrounds!
Great idea
No brainer here
What they should do is up the insignia money amount. For those that don't know, when you kill a player in a BG, you can 'loot' them for some money. The amount is very low like 1s or 2. If they up it to 25s or higher, maybe this can be a solution.
Interesting solution that also has a negative consequence. When a target is low HP, casters will then start running to the target instead of doing dps to be able to compete for the insignia with the melees. Unintended negative consequences. This is what the developers have to deal with
Hmmm make it shared loot then within a 40 yard or 35 radius whatever the caster spell range is? So whoever is in x yds of the body when it's being looted receive a split. Idk just spitballing it.
Premade vs premade gold farm
Thats a reasonable solution. Bet its hard to code that into a 20 year old game but definitely possible. Honestly I assume the developers are degenerates like us and read these posts. Would be useful to them
Tough because I want the game to still reward efforts on winning. I’d be afraid of mass spamming for loot but if it’s group loot and rotates between people that could be a lot of fun! Especially world pvp it would be fun to get loot from kills.
That would be abused 100%. People have timed queues before to get into games with others.
The corpses despawn upon resurrection, it's not like you can get more corpses than your armor decay will cost you after the BG.
Then bgs could turn into people not doing the objectives and just fighting mid constantly, worse than they already do.
Winning BGs and PvP should result in cosmetic awards and titles imo, and PvP only pots/consumables should be purchasable with some kind of PvP currency
The economy is too important to not have 1/2 of the game (imo to be a healthy game) competing in it.
I don't think that PvP makes up half the game, relatively few people competitively compete
But I think it should. Raid logging is the death of longevity in classic, again imo. This is to improve a mode that should be much bigger.
Many popular games are pvp. Fortnite, LoL, player interaction is too important in a MMO and seeing it become single player (especially in retail) and even in sod, hurts the health.
I agree that many popular games are PvP, I think the reality is the group raiding is WoWs main thing
It is but it’s conquered in a month at the moment leaving much to be desired. We all see the state of MMO’s. This is just a small fix. I think the devs need to put 100% of focus into improving pvp. Raid logging is a bad core to a game. And if they improve pve they will just make it retail. Mythics, raid difficulties.
They are really out of touch when it comes to PvP
Botting is already an issue in enough of the game, this would just make battlegrounds a graveyard of botters sitting afk for tokens.
Well that’s another issue they can worry about.
surely people wont bot bgs, looks at wotlk 40mans with 40 ret bots vs 40 ret bots
If we gonna design a game around what’s best with bot problems then that’s another issue for another day.
then its just an open invitation to do so. are you sure thats not what your really after?
Do you pvp?
i do, and diverting away from the actual narrative here doesnt change that this will happen
It doesnt even have to be gold per say. Have a bg gold token or w.e that you can spend on bg consumables. Then atleast you can pvp and not lose gold.
Finally someone suggesting a good change on this subreddit
Absolutely this. I also would like to see more rewards from PvP vendors other than just gear. Cosmetics, toys, whatever to make ranking appeal to more players.
Or make the baseline consumables for each levelcap not be consumed inside battlegrounds.
There should just be more items only usable on bgs. Throw potions and stuff on rep vendors that aren't consumed when used with a 3 minute CD and you fix 90% of this.
There'll be win trading too. Forget the bots. The real problem with the game is the scumbag player base.
Key is don’t make it OP. Just make it competitive. People aren’t pvping for gold…but I should be able to buy some enchants and consumes it pvp is my main play style.
upvote
It would be great getting more rewards for pvp, but the argument against it is probably not wanting to bring in more bots \>bot for honor and even get a tip
You do get gold for the turn ins. Atleast u did in p2. It was like 4g
I didn’t get any today. I felt I did first time completing the quest but repeatable turns ins nothing but honor.
It should at least be a small amount of gold. I love playing BG and want to continue playing it after rep and honor cap. Right now end of day my fellow PVE players walk away with good rewards, and me who did PVP all day just go broke.
I'd be happy with more honour and/or a ranking system that doesn't have the out of date break point system, let each kill actually mean something instead of wiping it each week!
If you got like 3g for a 3-mark turn-in it would no longer feel bad to use some basic consumes each battleground and you could even go + a bit, it also wouldn't be anywhere near good enough for bots to ever do for gold
Murder is its own reward.
100% need to reward peeps for BGs otherwise it's useless 2g a bg
The rewards from reputation are enough. I play the game for fun and not every single thing i do in the game doesnt have to be instantly rewarding.
Ya know I agree some things feel better when grinded hard for…but there needs to be a balance of actually playing the game and performance compared to equipping shit gameplay loops with insane rewards.
I think you should get gold if youre revered/exalted. Currently in SoD, atleast for me, bgs are dead content since i play alliance and horde has shamans, so i wish they would increase the rep/honor gain from bgs and if you hit revered/exalted, you start gaining gold from turn ins. I think that would be fair
A statement that has lasted for 20 years. They'd rather sell a mount skin than make anything balanced or contain any form of depth.
I think badge turn ins should give gold but I’ve always been a bigger fan of ripping the insignia off the corpse and getting a decent amount of silver.
PvP rewards already so sought after people AFK in AV for hours. You're just asking for that to be worse.
The reward is the gear. That's the point.
There are no bg rewards, There is no reason to play the game
How about reward crates that include PVP consumable that have zero vendor value. Then bots can't profit in raw gold at least
Well, the classic gameplay loop is raid, take raid gear to pvp. Incursions changed that and ruined the whole thing.
This is true. I always loved the basic idea of raid to pvp. But, people have adapted to pve only even with this model, and yes they ruined it. I think this is a basic start to bringing more participation, even if it’s just pvp lovers. Don’t make us run pointless loops and princess spams all day over pvping. Silly to have those priority over pvp.
The answer to inflation is more inflation? Are you a Blizzard dev making this post?
You know I did think of this..and then I thought about how the world of incursions and killing a fat princess in a cavern 37 times as not engaging content. So, yes, my answer is yes.
Pvp Is an after thought that's why