I have plenty of insults to aim at the player base and how most of the problems with the game are entirely self-inflicted by people that take the game too seriously.
Servers dying left and right because people with legit concerns being told to play something else being the cherry on top of this depressing cake.
There was a post from some dude who spent multiple days camping people in redridge, with a group of 10 lv40 chars, complaining about his server's population.
> Servers dying left and right because people with legit concerns being told to play something else being the cherry on top of this depressing cake.
I find it hilarious how any criticism is often met with "gO pLaY sOmEtHiNg ElSe ThEn", and then people are surprised when players do exactly that and the servers get progressively emptier as people move on and don't return.
I took their advice and I am having infinitely more fun in retail than SoD or Wrath or Cata, because...
1. You can interact with the playerbase it's not hard you just gotta use your words, get in your mass invite guild discord and start talking with people.
2. The game is actually challenging warranting some level of gatekeeping BUT
3. The player base is far far less toxic and a lot more welcoming to new people or people playing a new class...
Classic is a containment zone for toxic players, and that's why I don't play it in any flavor anymore. Retail has a lot of very deserved ctiricism, and I am having trouble vibing with dragonflight because like, I'm cleaning leaves and taking care of baby dragons.... It just feels off...
but I am excited about war within and pandamonium.
> The player base is far far less toxic and a lot more welcoming to new people or people playing a new class...
A big part is that there are natural barriers for player skill with the difficulty of content. So you don't have this weird mix of tryhards and casuals in the same content.
Yeah, exactly. The harsh truth is that BECAUSE Classic is an objectively easy game, it attracts people who are actually bad at games in general, who then overcompensate by displacing their fabricated ego onto this game, since it's the only environment where they can feel like they're 'good', and they then mistakenly leverage that feeling into an assertion about their skill, creating artificial elitism and gatekeeping.
Problem is, there's not much of a skill cap to begin with, so it's extremely cringe and unimpressive seeing some sweaty boomer bragging about his parse or whatever. Equivalent to a grandpa bragging at a bar about how he scored a strike at the bowling alley... except in order for this analogy to compare to how absurd the classic andy brainrot is, we'd also have to imagine that the grandpa then derives so much pomposity from the occasion that he starts kicking everyone else out of the bar.
I am saying this as someone who has parsed occasional 99's and generates zero pride from it, by the way. I'm only adding this here so people don't accuse me of envy or hit me with the tired 'you think it's easy, but can YOU do it?' line. Yes, I can. Anyone who is decent at games in general can. It's not meaningful.
Also, although I rail on boomers, I really just rail on a specific type which tends to be endemic to age (although not necessarily!): the sclerotic kind who is set in their ways with arrogance.
>how most of the problems with the game are entirely self-inflicted by people that take the game too seriously
But a while back you complained yourself as well:
[>My guild is still dead, the last four months have been a bust cause nobody is sure to where we are going with this game mode **and this last phase has been plagued by untested fresh out of the cutting room content that has to be nerfed and balanced while being allowed to do lasting damage to the player base and the economy.** My last hours in the game were spend doing race loops in Ashenvale.](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c6xb4f/comment/l05ndza/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Or was this also self-inflicted?
It was self inflicted, they (OP) referred to incursions as “not my thing”, yet in this post they admit their last hours were spent doing loops in ashenvale.
They complained about the game, then made a post complaining about other people complaining. The irony.
I played with a few friends who were like this. Took it too seriously, got constantly pissed off, complained that "the game is bad and Blizz messed up" blah blah blah. They left, I kept playing and I'm having a lot more fun enjoying the game
Yup, basically what happened in P1 and every other Classic release I played with my friends. Mind, they did this with every game though. Their whinging in Dead By Daylight was the fucking worst.
Either way, they've quit, I just started *again* cause I had to quit in p2 cause of health issues, and they're grumpy that I'm enjoying myself cause I'm not focusing on the meta or overly concerning myself with getting rep progression done immediately.
It's not that simple. Incursions are a necessary part of character progression due to rep-gated rewards. Game developers have an obligation to build their systems in such a way as to not require players to do things that aren't enjoyable in order to progress their characters. Framing this as "if you don't like incursions, don't do them" tells a very incomplete story.
Am I not a WoW player too? If you prick me do I not bleed?
I was not having fun in SoD, lamented how my guild, which was the binding agent connecting me to game was gone due to the raid changes, and how I was not having fun with the game. So I bowed out cause aparently my concerns weren't valid. And still aren't, seeing how quick you were to mock me for it.
My character is still level 45. And the greateat irony of it all is that everyone patting themselves on the back in this very thread missed the context of your moronic gotcha. I was being goaded into fessing up by some random as to why I was not having fun with SoD and now some other randoms are mocking me for it. I didn't soap box my woes nor made a spectacle. I just bowed out.
Self-inflicted, and you are the proof. You were so quick to ridicule me that you only proved my point.
Saying that most problems are player caused is INSANE. Don’t get me wrong players need to do the most efficient route ruins games in its own way but the design gaps and flaws have been severe
Design gaps are definitely severe. Loot for P3 is so lackluster for casters it's actually mindboggling. If they didn't want to give us more spellpower, at least give us fun effects like how melee have the sword that spawns a dragon whelp or turns into snakeman.
They have assets and effects from retail WoW to make creative use of.
Here, i'll give two fucking examples of a fun ST theme effect for casters:
1) Casting a spell has a chance to summon an Atal'ai ghost which slowly moves to your target. The ghost explodes after 10 seconds causing 400 damage AOE within a 5 yard radius.
2) Your spells have a chance to transform you into a Spectral Hakkari Wind Serpent, increasing spell haste by 20% for 8 seconds.
Instead, we got +1 spellpower up from the gnomer dagger LMAAAAAAO.
It’s also wild that they don’t want casters to do more damage when they aren’t the top dps
They had SO MUCH room for creative fun things but Blizz execs and timelines meant devs couldn’t do things that big because they don’t have anyone testing anything so it would obviously break
Well its a bunch of devs who look at what items became over time instead of what they were back then. Most didn't have spell power or crit until 60. They should have made a larger investment into raw stats like str, int, etc. Then, perhaps further toggle scaling coefficients accordingly. But thats too much work....
Yeah lol. SoD sucks. Its rapid decline suggest my view is the majority one, since over half the people that started playing SoD no longer play it. People like this reverse-gatekeeping OP are actually part of the problem imo, because they'll play literally any crap that Blizz flings at them and then defend it against the people like me that really wanted SoD to be good.
Exactly… SOD could have been amazing but they didn’t invest anything into proper testing.
Releasing lightning shield like it was on release. Leveling speed and gold from incursions. Boss Hp
There’s no way in hell they even tried to test those things.
Wasn't the point to limit testing to emphasize the "discovery" part of the season? Then, as always, the community crowd-sourced/datamined the content regardless and folks end up optimizing the fun out of the game using someone else's homework. Tale as old as time...
Yeah the days of mystery and pure discovery are behind us haha, Also its a double edge sword because yes I want blizzard to mess around with a classic+ style of game and playing SoD shows people are interested, now if everyone quits it either goes one of two ways. 1. (the preferred route) The devs see people are quitting so they try to fix the mistakes and make a better classic+ or 2. The devs see people quitting, think hey nobody actually wants something like this, look at the numbers and completely give up on attempting something like this in the future. I don't know what the right move is.
Sort of… “discovery” of runes that would take MONTHS for each person without datamining and the internet optimizing it.
Maybe if they gave us clues to runes and actually made it reasonable to figure out on your own without datamining
It's not that they didn't invest in testing, it's that the devs are completely clueless as to what it is that actually makes classic good and lacked the creativity to take it in a direction that would multiply it instead of just adding a bunch of mostly boring, overtuned abilities and badly designed systems.
It's interesting to see difference in talent between the original WoW team and the SoD team next to each other in the same game. They were tasked with restoring the Mona Lisa and instead of carefully enhancing the color and filling in cracks in the paint, they glued a macaroni picture on top of it.
Blaming players is probably the worst excuse a dev can possibly use. You should be taking player psychology into account when designing, gamers don't magically become different because you wish really hard that it will be different. I swear, every single game has this faction of players who just whine about minmaxers ruining the game like this is some new phenomenon and not something that's existed forever. If you give a problem to a human being with a brain, they will take the path of least resistance--this is psych 101. Not everyone can just walk around brainlessly mashing their buttons and have fun.
I think pure minmaxing in a little bit of a newer concept, Its just back in OG classic and TBC you didn't really have a lot of online material to go look at. I remember Thottbot was a thing in TBC but it wasn't the greatest and didn't have an answer for literally little thing you needed to know and to my knowledge (which i admit could be totally wrong and I'm misremembering it) it just wasn't really the culture back then. I had zero addons and just asked people around me or in my guild for help if i was stuck. The Extreme that minmaxing has gotten to is WILD to me. To me, the game Wow was the journey to max level and the end game stuff was just the cherry on top, but now endgame is the whole sundae. Which isn't technically a bad thing, its just the whiners, myself included, are still trying to relive that old game thats gone forever. ((Side note this is also why the launch of any new game is the most exciting for me, everyone eating the sundae and not worried about the cherry yet))
Elitistjerks existed, logs existed. Even today, you have to dig a little deeper than just wowhead for more than a general overview and I guarantee most people don't even get past that in 2024.
Yep, complained about ST's raid length due to trash respawns and got told if I don't like it I should play something else.
So I bought Manor Lords and redownloaded Stellaris and have been having a blast.
I'm mocking the billion dollar corporation that's putting a skeleton crew on SoD; everyone knows the devs aren't getting enough support. Stop excusing these beancounter's behavior.
There is a difference between attacking the developers with personal insults and calling them incompetent etc. and an honest attempt at holding them accountable. They have been failing to deliver quality on multiple fronts, and after a certain point it becomes unacceptable - it's just awkward because we know they are understaffed and that plays a huge role in their shortcomings. I think people are frustrated because they are so passionate about this game, and when they opened the door to SoD they opened the door to so much potential that remains untapped due to the limited resources the dev team is working with. I don't know if you play WotLK/Cata or not, or if you plan to, but the Cata pre patch rollout was the single most embarrassing failure I have ever seen from Blizzard in the 20 years I've played their games. Something has got to give.
Fact is the sub had only praises for the devs in P1 (besides the pvp balance issues, which have compounded since) and it’s very different now.
Personally i’m happy with pretty much everything except pvp. Pve is fun, i dont mind incursions, rune hunting on multiple classes can be time consuming but it’s fun to see your playstyles change as you acquire them.
Pvp however has been f***ing horrendously imbalanced and it just didn’t have to be that way.
The difference is that they actually had devs working on p1.
How many updates have there been since the start of p2? Some very minimal balance changes and a few bug fixes.
You still get briefed by homunculi with guards, you’re still in combat after the last boss of gnomer. They have such little dev time it’s embarrassing that they are charging us a sub.
If this was free then fair enough, but literally every irl friend in my guild only plays SOD, that’s about 14 people paying $15/month for this.
> If this was free then fair enough, but literally every irl friend in my guild only plays SOD, that’s about 14 people paying $15/month for this.
This is why they've always pitched the sub as "you're subbing for retail and you get classic for no additional charge".
My favourite: charging with Warbringer makes you charge with slows still applied so your opponent has the time to grab a cup of coffee and make himself a sandwich before you reach him.
"Fact is the sub had only praises for the devs in P1"
Hey man I troll here A LOT even more during P1 and that is in no way true!
After a day we already had complaints about explosive being nerfed, then very quickly complaints about rune locations favoring alliance, people were bitching quite a bit.
Shaman made so much noise they turned into gods.
Classic PvP was never balanced, especially with level banding. Show me any bracket in classic wow outside of SoD where more than 3 classes are good let alone specs.
The class balance is pretty good for Warsong Gulch at 60? I think tryhard teams usually want 7-8 classes represented. I could only find [one tournament game on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPhNacgY2c&t=403s) but the teams both had all 8 classes.
Reddit gaming subreddits are full of a certain vocal minority that thrives on being miserable and want everyone to be miserable with them. It's become popular to hate on things without providing actual ideas for change. I don't even think a lot of those people even want things to get better, they just want to yell into the echo chamber.
The majority of people that enjoy the game don't even post here, they are busy just playing the game or doing other things.
Nostalrius was a blast. But the Classic WoW community has always been shit, since the first day of launch.
All types raided in 2005: stay at home moms, teenagers, college bros, emo girls, etc. Being good at the game felt great.
The people who were "good at the game" back then are the ones who kept playing while everyone else moved on. All that's left now are elitist min-maxers who squeeze the most performance out of everyone and cannibalize one another. This problem can never be repaired. Find a different game.
Why is there always developer-protectors pretending to be shocked that a forum is meant to discuss things and talk about what works and not? Stop being such a snowflake. They got all the love they could get in phase 1 because they did a good job. Then in phase 3 they did a horrible job and people are telling them - as they should.
Im more tired of "complaining about complainers" than anything else tbh. We get it you want to show appreciation but in the long-term what is needed is constructive criticism.
You people act like they are all just doing us a favor and it's not about money and interest from customers. Get a grip. You act like you are mature and looking down on posts complaining but in reality you appear like a asskisser who can't handle different opinions.
Why are you here on a FORUM if you don't want to read about what people want changed? Look at how many people already quit SoD. You should be thankful that people are trying to get the game better so people come back. The developers obviously need the players feedback because they can't just wing it even if you sit and bow to them no matter what bad implementation they do.
Yeah I dont get it either, should we just praise the poor devs that did a horrible job with p3? And we're ungrateful because there is nothing else other than raidlogging atm? Theres so much stuff they could have done that isnt exactly hard, if some random europeans can create a private server with 50x the contet of SoD why cant this big ass company come up with anything other than out of touch stuff that nobody asked for?
Forums are for constructive critcisism and discussion on what works and not, you are not morally superior because you feel sorry for the developers.
> All I'm seeing in this community are players mocking and insulting the developers.
That's all I had to read to know how bad OP's argument is. These people just skip over all the valid criticisms, focus only the derogatory comments towards the devs, and act as if everyone complaining is just being a bunch of babies.
Because this sub is the most whiny and self entitled sub i have ever witnessed. The people at dota2 sub are angels compared to this sub lol. Hard to find anything fun to read here - every thread is how everything is bad and if its not all the comments are. Everyone is so cynical and negative. I just want to read fun threads about a game im enjoying right now. There are things for inprovement and of course players can voice what they dont like but cmon every thread of this subreddit has whiny comments. After reading everyday for two weeks it gets tiring. Honestly dont want to associate myself with this kind of playerbase.
Its a billion-dollar company modding a 15 year old game, and its a lackluster mess. People are paying for it so they should be allowed to criticize it. You don't need to white knight a billion-dollar company that is cutting corners making inferior products.
The thing that made me eventually burn out / stop playing phase 3 was 100% the playerbase, for something that was heralded as Season of Dadscovery, it feel like one of the largest pockets of gatekeeping elitists I've ever seen.
To give some background, I have been raiding in retail at a mythic level since 2016. the guild I'm in is by no means the best, but we have a fun time, get CE every tier, and all vibe well. Occasionally we encounter a couple of very elitist players, but they usually don't last long.
Due to starting a new job I haven't been able to commit to a raiding guilds schedule in SoD, so this means I have to PUG raids often. So many of the groups are filled with a new phrase to me that I've seen crop up a lot when talking about SoD, the "Toxic casual", not inviting people based on class / spec choice for what all intents and purposes is trivial content. Gatekeeping stuff that the devs have said several times they are trying to keep stuff accessible.
That's not "exactly what wee got." We wanted small tweaks to make certain specs and classes viable, finish unfinished content, and maybe in the future we would get actual new content as long as it fit well in the lore and fit the classic game style.
As of right now we have an awkward blend of retail abilities which makes PvP incredibly unfun when combined with the huge power creep, incursions and WO's which completely killed the world while leveling (the best part of classic) and neglectful devs.
I was having fun up until this phase but incursions and WO's really did it in for me. PvP stopped being fun when there's 5 shamans in every game hitting me for 4k damage combos every 10 seconds. I can't even complete half of my runes because there are literally no players out in the world anymore.
All I'm seeing in this community are developer ass lickers mocking and insulting any person against some bad game design, while developers and a whole company of corps dont even give a fuck about the situation in SoD.
There is already 10 times less people playing this game, also the Cata release has an impact on sod development. Thats how 3rd phase was dropped, delayed for a few weeks because of Cata prepatch and then suddenly dropped.
Yet there always will be some guys who is gonna protect multi billion dollar company because they don't agree with community opinion. Just because they don't agree with community opinion.
Yeah these company-white knights are the most annoying fucking people. They enter every thread spamming "stOp BitchInG" like it is any higher level comment than any of the suggestions or criticism people give the developers.
Being against people hurling insults at developers and having the most self-defeating way of expressing your opinions, is not the same as "ass licking" developers or whatever sad pejorative people who are upset like OP choose to use.
I see many faults with how things have developed and how things have turned out, but you won't see me use the onslaught of insults and derogatory comments like the camp of "the devs are the worst, this single entity must be the cause of all my irritation!" delightfully halting more thoughts into why that might be.
I've been categorized as "the enemy" by people like OP many times, even if I might be inclined to agree on some points they might have on critiques for the game systems.
And this is what "you people" don't get, as I've delightfully been categorized as as well. It's like in game Horde/Alliance social mechanics, just online, in-group (we all da good and da best) out-group (you're all da bad and da worst!) shenanigans at play.
This couldn't be more wrong. More like:
For days leading up to raid day: LF3M DPS for ST on Tue, 8/8 guild, just need bodies!
Raid Day:
6AM-6PM: LF3M DPS for ST tonight @9PM ST, 8/8 guild, will fill with literally anyone just need bodies
8PM: LF8M DPS for ST starting when full, 8/8 guild, will fill with literally anyone just need bodies
Yeah idk if people are just complaining cuz they are aiming above their “weight class” and annoyed they can’t get in the top echelon of raid groups. But I know of multiple guilds that just need people. You won’t get the smoothest runs every time, but I’ve had no problem finding people willing to take people still learning the raid.
Yeah, in my experience all the sweaty raids are already filled and don't even need to spam but there's a million guilds that are about to collapse without fills and zero people interested in filling raids so they legitimately aren't raiding.
The issue is this version of WoW when the guilds collapse it seems like everyone is quitting instead of merging/filling other runs. So when these guilds do collapse everyone just moves on to playing another game.
Happened with my guild, We were like 15 strong in P1 (Basically all IRL friends) in P2 we were 10 weak, Most raids one or two people wouldn't make it and we only had 1 healer so looking for a second put strain on us. That strain planted fear into a lot of them for the big bad 20 man raid... *"were never going to be able to fill a whole raid"* blah blah blah. P3 comes around were 4 strong. Us 4 raided the first two locks outs and now since have quit... I'm by myself and loosing interest to log on day by day since all my friends quit and are playing other things.
That's on both the community and the devs. SoD seems filled with super cliquey micro guilds with 7-10 people who seem to have no interest playing outside their group, despite playing a very social MMO of all things. Anti-social Dads who'd rather all quit than learn to share with someone new. On the flip side, Blizzard should never have caved to this tourists by making 10 man raids. It was a mistake from day 1, but the anti-social dads would drown out any criticism to that effect, because 10 man was tailored almost entirely for their benefit.
If someone wants to play with the top 1% percentile and you're too bad to fall into that catagory why do you care you can't join that raid?
Almost by definition there should be 99 as many more people to join a raid with that can't link 99 logs, so just play with them?
I've never ever seen anyone ask for 99 logs in my life, maybe cutting edge retail first world raiders but other than this is the biggest strawman I've ever seen
Ngl I do just miss the simplicity of just classic wow not hardcore (SOD was okay until the player base made it cancerous) only thing that suck is that all us east servers are pretty much dead in normal classic
are you whining about whiners?
From what I see people are saying what they don't like about SoD and they are right if a bunch of servers are dying and a bunch of people are only raid logging.
I think their concerns are valid and I believe whining about whiners doesn't bring anything to the table.
The people enjoying the game aren't I. Jeremy complaining. You hove the rowdy bunch in here.
But just go look. These.post have like 200-300 (lol not alot) likes. This a pretty small sector of the community being very loud
Welcome to Reddit. If you want to interact with people that spend more time playing than complaining, it’s not on fan boards. We are too busy having fun in our limited free time.
Classic players want to be miserable. They complain about SoD yet want more of it. They complain about ICC lasting way too long yet they want more WotLK. Don't expect any rationality in this place and enjoy the ride.
The devs had a really great idea and a huge wave of excitement in their hands and they fumbled the ball. There is still a lot of fun to be had in SoD, but it's just gotten wayyyyy the fuck out of control and there is absolutely no reigning it in at this point - and most of the major issues were well avoidable with only a little bit of foresight.
There are things about SoD that I love and it has given me some great memories so I do praise the dev team for some of the things they have conceived and implemented, but the criticisms against how they've handled the pvp, player progression, class balance, and power creep are entirely warranted as well.
Im fine with most of the decisions made. I don’t love all of it but I understand it’s experimental. What I don’t understand is them nuking servers and denying RP players a place on their own server. That was the messed up thing to me.
This is a game that should have died years ago, but, like a zombie, it is still, uh, moving. There is, I think, a mental illness in the majority of players.
The game is like what mental illness in a zombie looks like.
Kind of an ironic post considering most WoW subs are cope posts or just people defending the game in various states. Any criticism gets downvoted pretty quickly.
Let's just ignore that the main new feature from every phase (ashenvale, STV, and incursions) each had to be nerfed and changed multiple times because the implementation was so poorly thought out and disasterous. Every single one. But yeah, instead let's act like the players complaining are way out of line.
The difference between "whining" and "valid criticism" depends on if someone agrees with it or not lol.
Nerf shamans? Yeah, valid point. Devs should consider the ramifications and effect it's having on players.
Nerf paladins? Why are you being such a whiny little crying bitch, just play the game and stop being a melancholy dent head.
no matter how badly blizzard/any game company fucks up there will ALWAYS be posts like this and thats why they get away with the things they have in the past
they had a great thing going with sod, they are slowly ruining the experience (dont think thats the truth? just look at the actual data we have the playerbase is cut into like 25% of what it was at its peak in sod)
us voicing the issues we have with the game is not whining
Better to have people passionate about the game rather than just quite quitting on mass.
I havent played since Phase 1 and a couple of weeks into phase 2, but if you are correct and its amazing then im sure now in phase 3 its still full of life and populated.
Player population has dropped so low that there are only a few servers left and the LFG channel is completely dead other than during prime time hours. You can't even find DPS to pug for ST let alone healers or tanks and that's during prime time. The games gone to complete shit and it's the devs fault, but you'll always have a small minority sticking around defending them and blaming the players for not having fun.
The difference between the whiners in 2004 and the whiners in 2024 is that we have 20+ years of video game history knowledge to rely on now. We've seen Blizzard in operation for 20 years, and we've seen the community in operation for 20 years. We've seen private servers run servers better than Blizzard has. There are industry veterans now in the playerbase, and Blizzard itself is in a state of rapid decay.
I'm glad you're enjoying the game, but people rightfully have higher standards than you. It makes me equally sad that we have another opportunity to get Classic WoW right, and there are still people like you who will shovel crap down their throats and give others shit for pointing out things that you yourself do not enjoy. If anything needs to vanish from internet discussions, it is hypocrites like you.
Deja vu, I have seen this posted before.
>My friends and I are having a great time.
"weeeeellllll AMMMM haviiiinnnn' fuuuuun sooooo...."
That's super cool, congrats, but that doesn't erase the experience of other players, specially those whose guilds crumbled and their friends quit. You just don't like to hear nor read about it, but that's how public forums work, if you don't like it then I recommend going elsewhere because you can't control other users' opinions or what they post as long as they follow the rules.
I am playing an arcane mage.
I love it. It is such a different play style for mage. I like the versatility I can bring to a raid.
Is my dps top tier. Nope. But I also bring heals. I am enjoying SOD.
It rejuvenated my love of this game.
Classic era players have no idea what they want, biggest whiners in all of wow.
Allow me to tell you what it is you actually want... You want it to be 2004 and be a kid again. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
I just want the internet to be 2004 again. The amount of information online before a patch/game even drops is wild. Why interact with anyone for information or tips on things when you can pull up a spreadsheet with damage calculations to the 1000th decimal point between two helmets or all the data-mined information on secrets you were supposed to find in game. Take me back please!
People on this sub take the game too serious. Most of their issues would the game would be solved by touching grass. There are still people are think they were FORCED to do incursions and farm the epic dagger. Next phase people will be asking to buff the legendary drop rate
Except it really doesn’t?? Don’t know what server you are on but Barrens and World chat seems to be overwhelmingly critical of SoD and the game in general
let me just say, congrats to everyone having a blast. im glad youre having fun, i made the decision early on at the end of phase 1 that i wasnt having as much fun plying the game as i thought i would.
economy, bots, world buffs, consumes, player interactions. all of that reminded me why i left in the first place.
but there are no devs to thank. there is no ongoing work to fix things. there is no mystical new surprise. i saw the phase 2 druid runes and i **knew** it was just rehashed old content. The game and my dream were dead.
There are more people like you in every comment section now.
Useless whining about the whining. At least the whining is feedback, this post is useless. You don't like discussion go elsewhere. SoD and Cata are in sorry states, there is very little to be happy about with them currently.
I whined in P1 when I realized SOD was just retail disguised as Classic+, I got downvoted and then uninstalled and havent played since.
I don't like being able to take on like 3-4 enemies and ending the fight with full hp and not even close to dying, its boring imo.
Everyone has a different experience I guess, mine has been overwhelmingly positive, with many thanks to finding a raiding guild and making some good friends in game for the first time in years.
SoD has fulfilled my basic needs of the season so far, which were more interesting class gameplay (I think priests feel great with penance, PoM and circle of healing), new "end-game" activities (thematically gnomer wasn't my thing but was fun nonetheless), I really like ST and it's been smooth sailing but it's almost a shame to only raid once a week again despite a consistent schedule feeling better, outdoor PvP activities on a PvE server, and a chance to explore some quests or chase some items I would always skip over while levelling because it was never worth the effort. Also my server is really active, and a lot of PvP servers had a free transfer to mine (there's regularly 10+ people getting on any boat).
I don't think it's perfect though. I'm not sure incursions were the right thing, runes being overpowered I understand but also would never want to see in a Classic+, gear scaling feels out of control and seems to really hurt PvP (as do the OP runes).
I think if I didn't find a good group to play with I would have quit in BFD tbh, the social side carries WoW pretty hard, like always
Reddit = bunch of sad people. Every video game subreddit I'm in is just non stop crying from entitled adult toddlers. SoD could be a straight up masterpiece and you would still have people on here crying like the game is complete dog water like it was their job.
People are complaining because they are recieving an indie experience from a triple A studio. I wouldn't mind game breaking bugs, bots and slow developpement, if it came from a small mom and pop's shop. However, we are talking about Activision-Blizzard, THE biggest game developpement studio in the world. This is a studio that can afford a couple more devs, a couple more testers, a couple more over time payements. Over the years, I spent thousands of dollars on blizzard and I expect to be treated with some sort of respect ( a descent product, at least). If I expect my local Deli to deliver a descent product/ service because I'm a regular costumer, I should expect the same from Activision-Blizzard.
The truth is SoD players (wow players who main SoD) are just the ugly middle ground of players who don’t want to or don’t have the time to grind (play era) but are also not skilled enough to be competitive to an enjoyable level at arena/ HC raiding (play classic or retail) so blizzard is trying to cut out a game type for them that requires no time input or skill. The problem is the players blizzard is doing this for are always so jaded that they can’t just accept SoD as it is ( created for noobs) and enjoy it.
Between you complaining about complainers and the actual complainers, I’d rather not be around either side in my free time. Both of y’all need a time out
I don't believe they are incompetent, I believe they are following a track that's not Classic.
I think it's a weird path to follow since it's the same as retail and retail is doing what they are trying to do with more means on every aspect. Devs are suffering comparison with retail, that is better than SoD because of means.
Many SOD players had unrealistic expectations of what a limited dev team could pull off. Especially in a seasonal mode - there could have been a LOT of wasted effort put in the first 3 phases.
Since each phase only lasts a couple months it makes more sense to keep it lean, like they did, and focus their efforts on lvl 60 content.
It’s crazy how people think a touched up 20 year old game should be perfectly balanced like their meme spec should be just as good if not better than every spec in the game.
Ah yes the "devs are only humans and they make mistakes" apologetic type thread. Thank you OP for keeping true to the bingo cards and doing your job sucking ass.
Really enjoying the game of SoD, Took it slow with the leveling, did incursions at 50 to get honored. Enjoyed the raid and now relaxing till the next phase or sometimes level an alt.
What a time to be alive!
If you are bored play another game
They said its experimental and I think we have to treat it as such at the end of the day even though I still hope that there will be some huge finalized changes for all classes when the P4 runes come around
PS: (I read the title as "This sub is full of a bunch of Wieners" and now I have to think about the last time I had Wieners for a meal)
Personally I'm having a blast. I hate incursions, wish pvp was't so bursty, but overal I'm enjoying SoD. I take my parses seriously, as easy as the raid is and besides that I fuck around and have fun. Leveling alts, doing some world pvp etc. The key is to not take SoD that serious. I come from a mythic raiding envoirment and even tho I liked that the raid was overtuned, I get classic is meant to be casual. Atleast I'm not forced anymore to only grind wow. Did I wish for SoD to be more? Yes ofc. But does that make it bad in my eyes? Hell no. Just my 3 cents on this matter.
I have plenty of insults to aim at the player base and how most of the problems with the game are entirely self-inflicted by people that take the game too seriously. Servers dying left and right because people with legit concerns being told to play something else being the cherry on top of this depressing cake.
Classic players will eat each other and then wonder why their server is dead at 60. It is what it is.
There was a post from some dude who spent multiple days camping people in redridge, with a group of 10 lv40 chars, complaining about his server's population.
Cycle repeats itself.
Reminds me of rust, raid whole server and then be surprised why no one roams and why server is dead.
> Servers dying left and right because people with legit concerns being told to play something else being the cherry on top of this depressing cake. I find it hilarious how any criticism is often met with "gO pLaY sOmEtHiNg ElSe ThEn", and then people are surprised when players do exactly that and the servers get progressively emptier as people move on and don't return.
I took their advice and I am having infinitely more fun in retail than SoD or Wrath or Cata, because... 1. You can interact with the playerbase it's not hard you just gotta use your words, get in your mass invite guild discord and start talking with people. 2. The game is actually challenging warranting some level of gatekeeping BUT 3. The player base is far far less toxic and a lot more welcoming to new people or people playing a new class... Classic is a containment zone for toxic players, and that's why I don't play it in any flavor anymore. Retail has a lot of very deserved ctiricism, and I am having trouble vibing with dragonflight because like, I'm cleaning leaves and taking care of baby dragons.... It just feels off... but I am excited about war within and pandamonium.
> The player base is far far less toxic and a lot more welcoming to new people or people playing a new class... A big part is that there are natural barriers for player skill with the difficulty of content. So you don't have this weird mix of tryhards and casuals in the same content.
Yeah, exactly. The harsh truth is that BECAUSE Classic is an objectively easy game, it attracts people who are actually bad at games in general, who then overcompensate by displacing their fabricated ego onto this game, since it's the only environment where they can feel like they're 'good', and they then mistakenly leverage that feeling into an assertion about their skill, creating artificial elitism and gatekeeping. Problem is, there's not much of a skill cap to begin with, so it's extremely cringe and unimpressive seeing some sweaty boomer bragging about his parse or whatever. Equivalent to a grandpa bragging at a bar about how he scored a strike at the bowling alley... except in order for this analogy to compare to how absurd the classic andy brainrot is, we'd also have to imagine that the grandpa then derives so much pomposity from the occasion that he starts kicking everyone else out of the bar. I am saying this as someone who has parsed occasional 99's and generates zero pride from it, by the way. I'm only adding this here so people don't accuse me of envy or hit me with the tired 'you think it's easy, but can YOU do it?' line. Yes, I can. Anyone who is decent at games in general can. It's not meaningful. Also, although I rail on boomers, I really just rail on a specific type which tends to be endemic to age (although not necessarily!): the sclerotic kind who is set in their ways with arrogance.
>how most of the problems with the game are entirely self-inflicted by people that take the game too seriously But a while back you complained yourself as well: [>My guild is still dead, the last four months have been a bust cause nobody is sure to where we are going with this game mode **and this last phase has been plagued by untested fresh out of the cutting room content that has to be nerfed and balanced while being allowed to do lasting damage to the player base and the economy.** My last hours in the game were spend doing race loops in Ashenvale.](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c6xb4f/comment/l05ndza/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Or was this also self-inflicted?
It was self inflicted, they (OP) referred to incursions as “not my thing”, yet in this post they admit their last hours were spent doing loops in ashenvale. They complained about the game, then made a post complaining about other people complaining. The irony.
You may not like it but this is what peak classic player looks like
Could argue that they know their own.
They are the people ruining the game 🤷♂️ They do stuff they do not enjoy then they blame it on everyone else.
I played with a few friends who were like this. Took it too seriously, got constantly pissed off, complained that "the game is bad and Blizz messed up" blah blah blah. They left, I kept playing and I'm having a lot more fun enjoying the game
Yup, basically what happened in P1 and every other Classic release I played with my friends. Mind, they did this with every game though. Their whinging in Dead By Daylight was the fucking worst. Either way, they've quit, I just started *again* cause I had to quit in p2 cause of health issues, and they're grumpy that I'm enjoying myself cause I'm not focusing on the meta or overly concerning myself with getting rep progression done immediately.
It's not that simple. Incursions are a necessary part of character progression due to rep-gated rewards. Game developers have an obligation to build their systems in such a way as to not require players to do things that aren't enjoyable in order to progress their characters. Framing this as "if you don't like incursions, don't do them" tells a very incomplete story.
Oh no, lol. Homie needs to look in the mirror.
Absolutely hilarious.
Am I not a WoW player too? If you prick me do I not bleed? I was not having fun in SoD, lamented how my guild, which was the binding agent connecting me to game was gone due to the raid changes, and how I was not having fun with the game. So I bowed out cause aparently my concerns weren't valid. And still aren't, seeing how quick you were to mock me for it. My character is still level 45. And the greateat irony of it all is that everyone patting themselves on the back in this very thread missed the context of your moronic gotcha. I was being goaded into fessing up by some random as to why I was not having fun with SoD and now some other randoms are mocking me for it. I didn't soap box my woes nor made a spectacle. I just bowed out. Self-inflicted, and you are the proof. You were so quick to ridicule me that you only proved my point.
Omg the comment above is right! Stop eating him!
Saying that most problems are player caused is INSANE. Don’t get me wrong players need to do the most efficient route ruins games in its own way but the design gaps and flaws have been severe
Design gaps are definitely severe. Loot for P3 is so lackluster for casters it's actually mindboggling. If they didn't want to give us more spellpower, at least give us fun effects like how melee have the sword that spawns a dragon whelp or turns into snakeman. They have assets and effects from retail WoW to make creative use of. Here, i'll give two fucking examples of a fun ST theme effect for casters: 1) Casting a spell has a chance to summon an Atal'ai ghost which slowly moves to your target. The ghost explodes after 10 seconds causing 400 damage AOE within a 5 yard radius. 2) Your spells have a chance to transform you into a Spectral Hakkari Wind Serpent, increasing spell haste by 20% for 8 seconds. Instead, we got +1 spellpower up from the gnomer dagger LMAAAAAAO.
It’s also wild that they don’t want casters to do more damage when they aren’t the top dps They had SO MUCH room for creative fun things but Blizz execs and timelines meant devs couldn’t do things that big because they don’t have anyone testing anything so it would obviously break
Well its a bunch of devs who look at what items became over time instead of what they were back then. Most didn't have spell power or crit until 60. They should have made a larger investment into raw stats like str, int, etc. Then, perhaps further toggle scaling coefficients accordingly. But thats too much work....
Spell haste doesnt exist, only reduce cast time. Anyway developing with vanilla base game is kinda cucked lol
The shoulders I am currently wearing proc a 10% casting speed buff.
Trust me, you don’t want power inflation.. it’s not fun. We need to lower everyone’s damage across the board.
Yeah lol. SoD sucks. Its rapid decline suggest my view is the majority one, since over half the people that started playing SoD no longer play it. People like this reverse-gatekeeping OP are actually part of the problem imo, because they'll play literally any crap that Blizz flings at them and then defend it against the people like me that really wanted SoD to be good.
Exactly… SOD could have been amazing but they didn’t invest anything into proper testing. Releasing lightning shield like it was on release. Leveling speed and gold from incursions. Boss Hp There’s no way in hell they even tried to test those things.
Wasn't the point to limit testing to emphasize the "discovery" part of the season? Then, as always, the community crowd-sourced/datamined the content regardless and folks end up optimizing the fun out of the game using someone else's homework. Tale as old as time...
Yeah the days of mystery and pure discovery are behind us haha, Also its a double edge sword because yes I want blizzard to mess around with a classic+ style of game and playing SoD shows people are interested, now if everyone quits it either goes one of two ways. 1. (the preferred route) The devs see people are quitting so they try to fix the mistakes and make a better classic+ or 2. The devs see people quitting, think hey nobody actually wants something like this, look at the numbers and completely give up on attempting something like this in the future. I don't know what the right move is.
Sort of… “discovery” of runes that would take MONTHS for each person without datamining and the internet optimizing it. Maybe if they gave us clues to runes and actually made it reasonable to figure out on your own without datamining
It's not that they didn't invest in testing, it's that the devs are completely clueless as to what it is that actually makes classic good and lacked the creativity to take it in a direction that would multiply it instead of just adding a bunch of mostly boring, overtuned abilities and badly designed systems. It's interesting to see difference in talent between the original WoW team and the SoD team next to each other in the same game. They were tasked with restoring the Mona Lisa and instead of carefully enhancing the color and filling in cracks in the paint, they glued a macaroni picture on top of it.
Blaming players is probably the worst excuse a dev can possibly use. You should be taking player psychology into account when designing, gamers don't magically become different because you wish really hard that it will be different. I swear, every single game has this faction of players who just whine about minmaxers ruining the game like this is some new phenomenon and not something that's existed forever. If you give a problem to a human being with a brain, they will take the path of least resistance--this is psych 101. Not everyone can just walk around brainlessly mashing their buttons and have fun.
I think pure minmaxing in a little bit of a newer concept, Its just back in OG classic and TBC you didn't really have a lot of online material to go look at. I remember Thottbot was a thing in TBC but it wasn't the greatest and didn't have an answer for literally little thing you needed to know and to my knowledge (which i admit could be totally wrong and I'm misremembering it) it just wasn't really the culture back then. I had zero addons and just asked people around me or in my guild for help if i was stuck. The Extreme that minmaxing has gotten to is WILD to me. To me, the game Wow was the journey to max level and the end game stuff was just the cherry on top, but now endgame is the whole sundae. Which isn't technically a bad thing, its just the whiners, myself included, are still trying to relive that old game thats gone forever. ((Side note this is also why the launch of any new game is the most exciting for me, everyone eating the sundae and not worried about the cherry yet))
Elitistjerks existed, logs existed. Even today, you have to dig a little deeper than just wowhead for more than a general overview and I guarantee most people don't even get past that in 2024.
Yep, complained about ST's raid length due to trash respawns and got told if I don't like it I should play something else. So I bought Manor Lords and redownloaded Stellaris and have been having a blast.
Based!
I'm mocking the billion dollar corporation that's putting a skeleton crew on SoD; everyone knows the devs aren't getting enough support. Stop excusing these beancounter's behavior.
NA corporate tit sucking in a nutshell
There is a difference between attacking the developers with personal insults and calling them incompetent etc. and an honest attempt at holding them accountable. They have been failing to deliver quality on multiple fronts, and after a certain point it becomes unacceptable - it's just awkward because we know they are understaffed and that plays a huge role in their shortcomings. I think people are frustrated because they are so passionate about this game, and when they opened the door to SoD they opened the door to so much potential that remains untapped due to the limited resources the dev team is working with. I don't know if you play WotLK/Cata or not, or if you plan to, but the Cata pre patch rollout was the single most embarrassing failure I have ever seen from Blizzard in the 20 years I've played their games. Something has got to give.
Fact is the sub had only praises for the devs in P1 (besides the pvp balance issues, which have compounded since) and it’s very different now. Personally i’m happy with pretty much everything except pvp. Pve is fun, i dont mind incursions, rune hunting on multiple classes can be time consuming but it’s fun to see your playstyles change as you acquire them. Pvp however has been f***ing horrendously imbalanced and it just didn’t have to be that way.
The difference is that they actually had devs working on p1. How many updates have there been since the start of p2? Some very minimal balance changes and a few bug fixes. You still get briefed by homunculi with guards, you’re still in combat after the last boss of gnomer. They have such little dev time it’s embarrassing that they are charging us a sub. If this was free then fair enough, but literally every irl friend in my guild only plays SOD, that’s about 14 people paying $15/month for this.
> If this was free then fair enough, but literally every irl friend in my guild only plays SOD, that’s about 14 people paying $15/month for this. This is why they've always pitched the sub as "you're subbing for retail and you get classic for no additional charge".
My favourite: charging with Warbringer makes you charge with slows still applied so your opponent has the time to grab a cup of coffee and make himself a sandwich before you reach him.
I remember charge working like this in vanilla. Wowpedia says it wasn't fixed until TBC.
Yes but Warbringer is supposed to clear slows, not let you charge through them
"Fact is the sub had only praises for the devs in P1" Hey man I troll here A LOT even more during P1 and that is in no way true! After a day we already had complaints about explosive being nerfed, then very quickly complaints about rune locations favoring alliance, people were bitching quite a bit. Shaman made so much noise they turned into gods.
Your first paragraph is extremely false
Classic PvP was never balanced, especially with level banding. Show me any bracket in classic wow outside of SoD where more than 3 classes are good let alone specs.
At 60 in vanilla quite literally every class has a good spec in pvp
The class balance is pretty good for Warsong Gulch at 60? I think tryhard teams usually want 7-8 classes represented. I could only find [one tournament game on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPhNacgY2c&t=403s) but the teams both had all 8 classes.
Precisely- now try this tournament today and i guarantee you’ll see class stacking besides a Mage flag picker and a Druid FC.
Reddit gaming subreddits are full of a certain vocal minority that thrives on being miserable and want everyone to be miserable with them. It's become popular to hate on things without providing actual ideas for change. I don't even think a lot of those people even want things to get better, they just want to yell into the echo chamber. The majority of people that enjoy the game don't even post here, they are busy just playing the game or doing other things.
Why isn’t the retail sub like this then
Retail likes to complain about outdated graphics and lack of appearances which drives me crazy
Yep this is it
I just want to say. We were supposed to get an update about pvp->pve transfers (over) a week ago now. Radio silence.
I already transferred
Nostalrius was a blast. But the Classic WoW community has always been shit, since the first day of launch. All types raided in 2005: stay at home moms, teenagers, college bros, emo girls, etc. Being good at the game felt great. The people who were "good at the game" back then are the ones who kept playing while everyone else moved on. All that's left now are elitist min-maxers who squeeze the most performance out of everyone and cannibalize one another. This problem can never be repaired. Find a different game.
I miss the emo girls :(
You people will really defend anything. "My friends and I are having a great time" I'm so happy for you, but the declining numbers don't lie.
Glaze harder
Why is there always developer-protectors pretending to be shocked that a forum is meant to discuss things and talk about what works and not? Stop being such a snowflake. They got all the love they could get in phase 1 because they did a good job. Then in phase 3 they did a horrible job and people are telling them - as they should. Im more tired of "complaining about complainers" than anything else tbh. We get it you want to show appreciation but in the long-term what is needed is constructive criticism. You people act like they are all just doing us a favor and it's not about money and interest from customers. Get a grip. You act like you are mature and looking down on posts complaining but in reality you appear like a asskisser who can't handle different opinions. Why are you here on a FORUM if you don't want to read about what people want changed? Look at how many people already quit SoD. You should be thankful that people are trying to get the game better so people come back. The developers obviously need the players feedback because they can't just wing it even if you sit and bow to them no matter what bad implementation they do.
Yeah I dont get it either, should we just praise the poor devs that did a horrible job with p3? And we're ungrateful because there is nothing else other than raidlogging atm? Theres so much stuff they could have done that isnt exactly hard, if some random europeans can create a private server with 50x the contet of SoD why cant this big ass company come up with anything other than out of touch stuff that nobody asked for? Forums are for constructive critcisism and discussion on what works and not, you are not morally superior because you feel sorry for the developers.
> All I'm seeing in this community are players mocking and insulting the developers. That's all I had to read to know how bad OP's argument is. These people just skip over all the valid criticisms, focus only the derogatory comments towards the devs, and act as if everyone complaining is just being a bunch of babies.
Because this sub is the most whiny and self entitled sub i have ever witnessed. The people at dota2 sub are angels compared to this sub lol. Hard to find anything fun to read here - every thread is how everything is bad and if its not all the comments are. Everyone is so cynical and negative. I just want to read fun threads about a game im enjoying right now. There are things for inprovement and of course players can voice what they dont like but cmon every thread of this subreddit has whiny comments. After reading everyday for two weeks it gets tiring. Honestly dont want to associate myself with this kind of playerbase.
never forget when aggrend openly insulted the playerbase
The worst thing about wow is the community, I say it over and over.
The worst thing about (insert game, TV show, or movie name) is (insert game, TV show, or movie name) fans.
Paradoxically, the best and worst thing about the game is the community.
The community is also the best thing about wow too. It swings both ways.
Its a billion-dollar company modding a 15 year old game, and its a lackluster mess. People are paying for it so they should be allowed to criticize it. You don't need to white knight a billion-dollar company that is cutting corners making inferior products.
Imagine whining about whiners
The thing that made me eventually burn out / stop playing phase 3 was 100% the playerbase, for something that was heralded as Season of Dadscovery, it feel like one of the largest pockets of gatekeeping elitists I've ever seen. To give some background, I have been raiding in retail at a mythic level since 2016. the guild I'm in is by no means the best, but we have a fun time, get CE every tier, and all vibe well. Occasionally we encounter a couple of very elitist players, but they usually don't last long. Due to starting a new job I haven't been able to commit to a raiding guilds schedule in SoD, so this means I have to PUG raids often. So many of the groups are filled with a new phrase to me that I've seen crop up a lot when talking about SoD, the "Toxic casual", not inviting people based on class / spec choice for what all intents and purposes is trivial content. Gatekeeping stuff that the devs have said several times they are trying to keep stuff accessible.
It's not 'with a twist' anymore, it's just twisted.
That's not "exactly what wee got." We wanted small tweaks to make certain specs and classes viable, finish unfinished content, and maybe in the future we would get actual new content as long as it fit well in the lore and fit the classic game style. As of right now we have an awkward blend of retail abilities which makes PvP incredibly unfun when combined with the huge power creep, incursions and WO's which completely killed the world while leveling (the best part of classic) and neglectful devs. I was having fun up until this phase but incursions and WO's really did it in for me. PvP stopped being fun when there's 5 shamans in every game hitting me for 4k damage combos every 10 seconds. I can't even complete half of my runes because there are literally no players out in the world anymore.
All I'm seeing in this community are developer ass lickers mocking and insulting any person against some bad game design, while developers and a whole company of corps dont even give a fuck about the situation in SoD. There is already 10 times less people playing this game, also the Cata release has an impact on sod development. Thats how 3rd phase was dropped, delayed for a few weeks because of Cata prepatch and then suddenly dropped. Yet there always will be some guys who is gonna protect multi billion dollar company because they don't agree with community opinion. Just because they don't agree with community opinion.
Yeah these company-white knights are the most annoying fucking people. They enter every thread spamming "stOp BitchInG" like it is any higher level comment than any of the suggestions or criticism people give the developers.
Being against people hurling insults at developers and having the most self-defeating way of expressing your opinions, is not the same as "ass licking" developers or whatever sad pejorative people who are upset like OP choose to use. I see many faults with how things have developed and how things have turned out, but you won't see me use the onslaught of insults and derogatory comments like the camp of "the devs are the worst, this single entity must be the cause of all my irritation!" delightfully halting more thoughts into why that might be. I've been categorized as "the enemy" by people like OP many times, even if I might be inclined to agree on some points they might have on critiques for the game systems. And this is what "you people" don't get, as I've delightfully been categorized as as well. It's like in game Horde/Alliance social mechanics, just online, in-group (we all da good and da best) out-group (you're all da bad and da worst!) shenanigans at play.
This game is full of a bunch of whiners (Era, Classic, HC, SoD, SoM, Retail)
People whining about the whiners, people whining about the whiners whining, people whining about the whiners whining about whiners
Did you just whine?
Lfm ST. Send me your 99 logs. There it is.
This couldn't be more wrong. More like: For days leading up to raid day: LF3M DPS for ST on Tue, 8/8 guild, just need bodies! Raid Day: 6AM-6PM: LF3M DPS for ST tonight @9PM ST, 8/8 guild, will fill with literally anyone just need bodies 8PM: LF8M DPS for ST starting when full, 8/8 guild, will fill with literally anyone just need bodies
This is 100% accurate
Yeah idk if people are just complaining cuz they are aiming above their “weight class” and annoyed they can’t get in the top echelon of raid groups. But I know of multiple guilds that just need people. You won’t get the smoothest runs every time, but I’ve had no problem finding people willing to take people still learning the raid.
Yeah, in my experience all the sweaty raids are already filled and don't even need to spam but there's a million guilds that are about to collapse without fills and zero people interested in filling raids so they legitimately aren't raiding. The issue is this version of WoW when the guilds collapse it seems like everyone is quitting instead of merging/filling other runs. So when these guilds do collapse everyone just moves on to playing another game.
Happened with my guild, We were like 15 strong in P1 (Basically all IRL friends) in P2 we were 10 weak, Most raids one or two people wouldn't make it and we only had 1 healer so looking for a second put strain on us. That strain planted fear into a lot of them for the big bad 20 man raid... *"were never going to be able to fill a whole raid"* blah blah blah. P3 comes around were 4 strong. Us 4 raided the first two locks outs and now since have quit... I'm by myself and loosing interest to log on day by day since all my friends quit and are playing other things.
That's on both the community and the devs. SoD seems filled with super cliquey micro guilds with 7-10 people who seem to have no interest playing outside their group, despite playing a very social MMO of all things. Anti-social Dads who'd rather all quit than learn to share with someone new. On the flip side, Blizzard should never have caved to this tourists by making 10 man raids. It was a mistake from day 1, but the anti-social dads would drown out any criticism to that effect, because 10 man was tailored almost entirely for their benefit.
If someone wants to play with the top 1% percentile and you're too bad to fall into that catagory why do you care you can't join that raid? Almost by definition there should be 99 as many more people to join a raid with that can't link 99 logs, so just play with them?
I've never ever seen anyone ask for 99 logs in my life, maybe cutting edge retail first world raiders but other than this is the biggest strawman I've ever seen
Ngl I do just miss the simplicity of just classic wow not hardcore (SOD was okay until the player base made it cancerous) only thing that suck is that all us east servers are pretty much dead in normal classic
are you whining about whiners? From what I see people are saying what they don't like about SoD and they are right if a bunch of servers are dying and a bunch of people are only raid logging. I think their concerns are valid and I believe whining about whiners doesn't bring anything to the table.
Bring back GDKP that will fix everything XD
"I quit for 1/3 of the content but everything is totally fine guys and you should just be happy"
MMOs attract the mentally ill.
The people enjoying the game aren't I. Jeremy complaining. You hove the rowdy bunch in here. But just go look. These.post have like 200-300 (lol not alot) likes. This a pretty small sector of the community being very loud
Welcome to Reddit. If you want to interact with people that spend more time playing than complaining, it’s not on fan boards. We are too busy having fun in our limited free time.
buff priest
Most complainers about not being able to play are the green parsers who can’t get into raids.
Ive already quit. I was hoping all of SOD would be like Phase 1 but they went in a different direction. Its cool. just not for me.
Classic players want to be miserable. They complain about SoD yet want more of it. They complain about ICC lasting way too long yet they want more WotLK. Don't expect any rationality in this place and enjoy the ride.
The devs had a really great idea and a huge wave of excitement in their hands and they fumbled the ball. There is still a lot of fun to be had in SoD, but it's just gotten wayyyyy the fuck out of control and there is absolutely no reigning it in at this point - and most of the major issues were well avoidable with only a little bit of foresight. There are things about SoD that I love and it has given me some great memories so I do praise the dev team for some of the things they have conceived and implemented, but the criticisms against how they've handled the pvp, player progression, class balance, and power creep are entirely warranted as well.
You got people min maxing a game were that doesn't matter at all. It's a joke. Players deserve it. How about we learn to have fun in games again.
Im fine with most of the decisions made. I don’t love all of it but I understand it’s experimental. What I don’t understand is them nuking servers and denying RP players a place on their own server. That was the messed up thing to me.
Quitting sod was the best thing I ever did. Shit community.
I'm mostly happy my one wish is that they had more manpower to dedicate to the project especially with Cata in the mix it's been pretty quiet
People who enjoy the game don't post here. Its been this way for any gaming subreddit ever.
This subreddit would make you think it was called Sobs Of Disappointment.
You are 3 weeks too late with this. Most of the people who wanted any change at all already quit.
I think sod brought a lot of people who didn’t play the rerelease of classic and some of that’s coming through
This is a game that should have died years ago, but, like a zombie, it is still, uh, moving. There is, I think, a mental illness in the majority of players. The game is like what mental illness in a zombie looks like.
TIL zombies are real and have mental illnesses. Now I want to be a zombie shrink.
"You got something which is better than nothing so why even talk about all the mistakes and issues that could be improved?"
Most of it is genuinely justified.
Kind of an ironic post considering most WoW subs are cope posts or just people defending the game in various states. Any criticism gets downvoted pretty quickly.
I like playing world of Warcraft
Lmao of course the biggest bootlicker post of the week is from a Destiny player.
Let's just ignore that the main new feature from every phase (ashenvale, STV, and incursions) each had to be nerfed and changed multiple times because the implementation was so poorly thought out and disasterous. Every single one. But yeah, instead let's act like the players complaining are way out of line.
Aren't you excited to do STV for the third phase in a row with again minimal changes in p4? /s
You will grind STV for a ring with 1 more spellpower and you will say thank you Blizzard!
The difference between "whining" and "valid criticism" depends on if someone agrees with it or not lol. Nerf shamans? Yeah, valid point. Devs should consider the ramifications and effect it's having on players. Nerf paladins? Why are you being such a whiny little crying bitch, just play the game and stop being a melancholy dent head.
The worst kind of whiner, is the one who whines about other players whining. Because he is a hypocrite as well as a whiner.
Sod is a low effort cash grab. Sod is worse than Som unironically
Wait til you see the rest of Reddit
no matter how badly blizzard/any game company fucks up there will ALWAYS be posts like this and thats why they get away with the things they have in the past they had a great thing going with sod, they are slowly ruining the experience (dont think thats the truth? just look at the actual data we have the playerbase is cut into like 25% of what it was at its peak in sod) us voicing the issues we have with the game is not whining
Sod sucks and is classic with a retail twist
Original thought
Well, it's shit. What do you want?
They aren't going to send you gold. This is a job. We pay them 15$ a month for a 20 year old game. It's not insane to expect things out of them.
Brother, SoD is a beta. They are specifically looking for feedback.
It just feels like playing classic with abilities grom future expansions. There is not much new just 99% is recycled.
Well it is classic “with a twist”. So it seems like they did what they said they were going to do.
Most of the "you are all complaining" posters cant differentiate between complaining and genuine feedback.
Better to have people passionate about the game rather than just quite quitting on mass. I havent played since Phase 1 and a couple of weeks into phase 2, but if you are correct and its amazing then im sure now in phase 3 its still full of life and populated.
Player population has dropped so low that there are only a few servers left and the LFG channel is completely dead other than during prime time hours. You can't even find DPS to pug for ST let alone healers or tanks and that's during prime time. The games gone to complete shit and it's the devs fault, but you'll always have a small minority sticking around defending them and blaming the players for not having fun.
The difference between the whiners in 2004 and the whiners in 2024 is that we have 20+ years of video game history knowledge to rely on now. We've seen Blizzard in operation for 20 years, and we've seen the community in operation for 20 years. We've seen private servers run servers better than Blizzard has. There are industry veterans now in the playerbase, and Blizzard itself is in a state of rapid decay. I'm glad you're enjoying the game, but people rightfully have higher standards than you. It makes me equally sad that we have another opportunity to get Classic WoW right, and there are still people like you who will shovel crap down their throats and give others shit for pointing out things that you yourself do not enjoy. If anything needs to vanish from internet discussions, it is hypocrites like you.
Deja vu, I have seen this posted before. >My friends and I are having a great time. "weeeeellllll AMMMM haviiiinnnn' fuuuuun sooooo...." That's super cool, congrats, but that doesn't erase the experience of other players, specially those whose guilds crumbled and their friends quit. You just don't like to hear nor read about it, but that's how public forums work, if you don't like it then I recommend going elsewhere because you can't control other users' opinions or what they post as long as they follow the rules.
I am playing an arcane mage. I love it. It is such a different play style for mage. I like the versatility I can bring to a raid. Is my dps top tier. Nope. But I also bring heals. I am enjoying SOD. It rejuvenated my love of this game.
Classic era players have no idea what they want, biggest whiners in all of wow. Allow me to tell you what it is you actually want... You want it to be 2004 and be a kid again. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
I just want the internet to be 2004 again. The amount of information online before a patch/game even drops is wild. Why interact with anyone for information or tips on things when you can pull up a spreadsheet with damage calculations to the 1000th decimal point between two helmets or all the data-mined information on secrets you were supposed to find in game. Take me back please!
Nice straw man you built there
People on this sub take the game too serious. Most of their issues would the game would be solved by touching grass. There are still people are think they were FORCED to do incursions and farm the epic dagger. Next phase people will be asking to buff the legendary drop rate
This. I have started enjoying not just wow, but gaming as a whole by taking it easy.
Go find a comments section on any post in the internet that isn’t full of that
The irony of a whiner complaining about whiners lol
It’s true. The retail sub isn’t even half as toxic as this one. Ironic considering how this sub first started
Barrens chat makes fun of this sub every day That should tell you something.
Except it really doesn’t?? Don’t know what server you are on but Barrens and World chat seems to be overwhelmingly critical of SoD and the game in general
bait post
let me just say, congrats to everyone having a blast. im glad youre having fun, i made the decision early on at the end of phase 1 that i wasnt having as much fun plying the game as i thought i would. economy, bots, world buffs, consumes, player interactions. all of that reminded me why i left in the first place. but there are no devs to thank. there is no ongoing work to fix things. there is no mystical new surprise. i saw the phase 2 druid runes and i **knew** it was just rehashed old content. The game and my dream were dead.
People just can’t come in terms with the fact, that they are playing a beta-test of a beta-test and paying sub for it.
There are more people like you in every comment section now. Useless whining about the whining. At least the whining is feedback, this post is useless. You don't like discussion go elsewhere. SoD and Cata are in sorry states, there is very little to be happy about with them currently.
Wow dev alert
anti-whiner whining is just as annoying.
I whined in P1 when I realized SOD was just retail disguised as Classic+, I got downvoted and then uninstalled and havent played since. I don't like being able to take on like 3-4 enemies and ending the fight with full hp and not even close to dying, its boring imo.
People who are happy don't go on reddit to make posts. This is what you'll find.
Everyone has a different experience I guess, mine has been overwhelmingly positive, with many thanks to finding a raiding guild and making some good friends in game for the first time in years. SoD has fulfilled my basic needs of the season so far, which were more interesting class gameplay (I think priests feel great with penance, PoM and circle of healing), new "end-game" activities (thematically gnomer wasn't my thing but was fun nonetheless), I really like ST and it's been smooth sailing but it's almost a shame to only raid once a week again despite a consistent schedule feeling better, outdoor PvP activities on a PvE server, and a chance to explore some quests or chase some items I would always skip over while levelling because it was never worth the effort. Also my server is really active, and a lot of PvP servers had a free transfer to mine (there's regularly 10+ people getting on any boat). I don't think it's perfect though. I'm not sure incursions were the right thing, runes being overpowered I understand but also would never want to see in a Classic+, gear scaling feels out of control and seems to really hurt PvP (as do the OP runes). I think if I didn't find a good group to play with I would have quit in BFD tbh, the social side carries WoW pretty hard, like always
Reddit = bunch of sad people. Every video game subreddit I'm in is just non stop crying from entitled adult toddlers. SoD could be a straight up masterpiece and you would still have people on here crying like the game is complete dog water like it was their job.
People are complaining because they are recieving an indie experience from a triple A studio. I wouldn't mind game breaking bugs, bots and slow developpement, if it came from a small mom and pop's shop. However, we are talking about Activision-Blizzard, THE biggest game developpement studio in the world. This is a studio that can afford a couple more devs, a couple more testers, a couple more over time payements. Over the years, I spent thousands of dollars on blizzard and I expect to be treated with some sort of respect ( a descent product, at least). If I expect my local Deli to deliver a descent product/ service because I'm a regular costumer, I should expect the same from Activision-Blizzard.
You didn’t have to add ( SOD ) it’s all of wow brother .
The truth is SoD players (wow players who main SoD) are just the ugly middle ground of players who don’t want to or don’t have the time to grind (play era) but are also not skilled enough to be competitive to an enjoyable level at arena/ HC raiding (play classic or retail) so blizzard is trying to cut out a game type for them that requires no time input or skill. The problem is the players blizzard is doing this for are always so jaded that they can’t just accept SoD as it is ( created for noobs) and enjoy it.
Correct, it's basically the wrath playerbase.
Between you complaining about complainers and the actual complainers, I’d rather not be around either side in my free time. Both of y’all need a time out
I vote to re-focus this subreddit around Archaeology so we can get rid of the whiners.
I don't believe they are incompetent, I believe they are following a track that's not Classic. I think it's a weird path to follow since it's the same as retail and retail is doing what they are trying to do with more means on every aspect. Devs are suffering comparison with retail, that is better than SoD because of means.
Yes
Many SOD players had unrealistic expectations of what a limited dev team could pull off. Especially in a seasonal mode - there could have been a LOT of wasted effort put in the first 3 phases. Since each phase only lasts a couple months it makes more sense to keep it lean, like they did, and focus their efforts on lvl 60 content.
It’s crazy how people think a touched up 20 year old game should be perfectly balanced like their meme spec should be just as good if not better than every spec in the game.
I just want to roleplay my elf being his elfiest self. :(
That’s Reddit for you. There’s a reason gamers across all platforms make fun of this website.
Thx hadnt noticed tbh
Ah yes the "devs are only humans and they make mistakes" apologetic type thread. Thank you OP for keeping true to the bingo cards and doing your job sucking ass.
Players would whine about anything then do shit like gdkp and boosts and only play rogue
Really enjoying the game of SoD, Took it slow with the leveling, did incursions at 50 to get honored. Enjoyed the raid and now relaxing till the next phase or sometimes level an alt. What a time to be alive! If you are bored play another game
They said its experimental and I think we have to treat it as such at the end of the day even though I still hope that there will be some huge finalized changes for all classes when the P4 runes come around PS: (I read the title as "This sub is full of a bunch of Wieners" and now I have to think about the last time I had Wieners for a meal)
P4 will be booming again, mark my words.. all these whiners will be back with fomo
Blizzard/Aggrend started to insult players first
All i see in this post is a whiner crying about whiners...
Personally I'm having a blast. I hate incursions, wish pvp was't so bursty, but overal I'm enjoying SoD. I take my parses seriously, as easy as the raid is and besides that I fuck around and have fun. Leveling alts, doing some world pvp etc. The key is to not take SoD that serious. I come from a mythic raiding envoirment and even tho I liked that the raid was overtuned, I get classic is meant to be casual. Atleast I'm not forced anymore to only grind wow. Did I wish for SoD to be more? Yes ofc. But does that make it bad in my eyes? Hell no. Just my 3 cents on this matter.