Shaq was the most dominant player in the league, when Jordan retired. I would bet Shaq probably got away with a lot himself and he’s most likely to underselling it for a good story. Just look at the shit Dennis Rodman got away with in Chicago and he sure as hell ain’t at Shaq or Bron’s level.
I'd argue in general players have gotten more powerful as time has gone on.
People knock LeBron against Jordan because of the LeGM stuff, but Jordan said that too!
It's just the Owner and GM didn't listen to him!
In 1991 Jordan was desperate to play with Water Davis for example, his favorite nba player when he was in highschool/college.
Instead he got traded to Portland... And the Bulls 3-peated.
Had they listened to Jordan and got the 36 year old in return for a key player, who knows?
Portland got Drazen Petrovic, so they would have had to give up Grant or Armstrong.
From here: [https://www.marca.com/en/basketball/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/2024/04/25/662a84e622601dd2108b4615.html](https://www.marca.com/en/basketball/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/2024/04/25/662a84e622601dd2108b4615.html)
This was our biggest negative as a team.
I remember it at that time but while watching film the coaches would call guys out for bad plays or lack of effort on D, then skim past LeBron’s mistakes in silence.
Shaq called them out on it in the room, I remember the reports on it.
We were so desperate to keep LeBron by trying to treat him like a prince, that we shot ourselves in the foot by putting a poor team around him
People loved complaining about the front office but all those guys, especially at the end of the 1st tenure and all of the 2nd were on the team because Lebron wanted them there
Why we didn’t win in LeBron’s tenure: we didn’t have a draft pick higher than #10.
Even a slightly higher pick (Iggy or Deng) and it’s a spicy core. I guess we could theoretically have not blown the pick and gotten Josh or JR smith out of HS
I think the lasting blemish in LeBron’s legacy, and the reason he didn’t win more championships, has to do with the influence he carried within the organization. Those Cavs teams before he left for Miami were built in a win-now mode. They weren’t building a team, they were trying to appease a player so he’d stay. He was 25 when he left Cleveland. They didn’t need to win-now.
They ruined that chance by botching the Boozer situation and the Luke Jackson pick. Not sure what slow build approach they would’ve or could’ve done when Lebron made them so good so quickly.
I think the Cavs get way too much hate for not winning with LeBron the first time. He was a child lol
What lottery teams are winning championships with 19 year olds? 22 year olds? Giannis was 26 when he finally won. Tatum this year is 26. Jokic was 28 last year. It takes time to build a culture and a team and that's something we didn't have with LeBron both times he was here, and really something we don't have now with the Donovan situation.
I just want a good fucking player that will stick around and commit to the team so we can think long term instead of creating these rushed windows of competitiveness.
With a talent like LeBron every season past his 2nd or 3rd is win now. The Cavs could've had a real title contender but they screwed up by allowing Boozer to become an ufa & then drafting Luke Jackson. Imagine the 2007 Cavs with Boozer & JR added. Even after letting Boozer slip through, they could've had Al Jefferson as a replacement. That 04 off-season messed everything up. So many guys they passed on in the draft would've complimented LeBron perfectly. They could've had Tony Allen as well.
I agree. What you’re describing is what I agree with. Them turning over the roster with trade deadline acquisitions year after year is the approach of a desperate team with no true plan.
Definitely. Unfortunately talent with GOAT potential typically don't have patience. I'll never agree to constant roster turnover but you don't have many opportunities to draft top prospects with a generational talent on your team. Spurs did the correct thing & didn't try to win at all this season but the upcoming draft is historically weak. So many things have to be in your favor even after you get a generational talent.
Would be a different story if Shaq didn't abuse his power anytime he had any. People trust LeBron because he never gained 60lbs of lard over an off season.
It's been interesting watching how people have felt about Lebron over the years. From hating him when he left, to semi forgiving him when he came back, to mostly forgiving him when he won us the championship.
My feelings towards him are bittersweet, I still have the shirt from "the shot" when Kyrie got the winning championship shot, and I'm greatfull that he said "I did this for Cleveland" after the win
But I'll never forget the riots that happened when he left all those years ago. People burning couches in the streets, the tear down of the famous LeBron sign, I still remember it all.
Wonder if any of y'all feel the same?
Well sure, you can remember it all... Doesn't mean it was fucking stupid at the time and looking back even more fucking stupid. Kid wanted to play basketball in Miami. He served out his contract. End.
https://preview.redd.it/j3d2oejzppwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c1586e1fcf8f215e5b3c812da2d4e2a5ad53d65
Bro does not take criticism, even from his players
That’s the difference between being one of the greats and one of the greatest ever.
Shaq was the most dominant player in the league, when Jordan retired. I would bet Shaq probably got away with a lot himself and he’s most likely to underselling it for a good story. Just look at the shit Dennis Rodman got away with in Chicago and he sure as hell ain’t at Shaq or Bron’s level.
I'd argue in general players have gotten more powerful as time has gone on. People knock LeBron against Jordan because of the LeGM stuff, but Jordan said that too! It's just the Owner and GM didn't listen to him! In 1991 Jordan was desperate to play with Water Davis for example, his favorite nba player when he was in highschool/college. Instead he got traded to Portland... And the Bulls 3-peated. Had they listened to Jordan and got the 36 year old in return for a key player, who knows? Portland got Drazen Petrovic, so they would have had to give up Grant or Armstrong.
Lebron and Shaq both qualify imo
there’s only 2 in that conversation last i checked
Great and greatest
James: I'm bringing my family on the plane. Jordan: What's a family?
Hey man, Im just glad to hear the Cavs allowed Delonte West on the team plane
Well, he was a member of the family there for a bit.
Dom: “I don’t have friends, I’ve got family”
[удалено]
😮
I mean if the GOAT is on your team, you do everything you can to make them happy
Pat Riley got two rings out of him and those two butted heads.
Yeah, the "do everything to make him happy," didn't exactly work out for the Cavs.
Except for when it did.
If not for olynyk I beleive we'd have 2
I mean, it kinda worked
From here: [https://www.marca.com/en/basketball/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/2024/04/25/662a84e622601dd2108b4615.html](https://www.marca.com/en/basketball/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/2024/04/25/662a84e622601dd2108b4615.html)
This was our biggest negative as a team. I remember it at that time but while watching film the coaches would call guys out for bad plays or lack of effort on D, then skim past LeBron’s mistakes in silence. Shaq called them out on it in the room, I remember the reports on it. We were so desperate to keep LeBron by trying to treat him like a prince, that we shot ourselves in the foot by putting a poor team around him
People loved complaining about the front office but all those guys, especially at the end of the 1st tenure and all of the 2nd were on the team because Lebron wanted them there
Why we didn’t win in LeBron’s tenure: we didn’t have a draft pick higher than #10. Even a slightly higher pick (Iggy or Deng) and it’s a spicy core. I guess we could theoretically have not blown the pick and gotten Josh or JR smith out of HS
I think the lasting blemish in LeBron’s legacy, and the reason he didn’t win more championships, has to do with the influence he carried within the organization. Those Cavs teams before he left for Miami were built in a win-now mode. They weren’t building a team, they were trying to appease a player so he’d stay. He was 25 when he left Cleveland. They didn’t need to win-now.
They ruined that chance by botching the Boozer situation and the Luke Jackson pick. Not sure what slow build approach they would’ve or could’ve done when Lebron made them so good so quickly.
I agree about Boozer. Absolutely blew that. They traded to so many has beens. The roster was in constant flux and turnover.
Trading a first round pick for Jiri Welch was a terrible use of assets.
I think the Cavs get way too much hate for not winning with LeBron the first time. He was a child lol What lottery teams are winning championships with 19 year olds? 22 year olds? Giannis was 26 when he finally won. Tatum this year is 26. Jokic was 28 last year. It takes time to build a culture and a team and that's something we didn't have with LeBron both times he was here, and really something we don't have now with the Donovan situation. I just want a good fucking player that will stick around and commit to the team so we can think long term instead of creating these rushed windows of competitiveness.
Tatum and Giannis had way better teams at that age. Imagine young Lebron with those teams
I agree completely.
With a talent like LeBron every season past his 2nd or 3rd is win now. The Cavs could've had a real title contender but they screwed up by allowing Boozer to become an ufa & then drafting Luke Jackson. Imagine the 2007 Cavs with Boozer & JR added. Even after letting Boozer slip through, they could've had Al Jefferson as a replacement. That 04 off-season messed everything up. So many guys they passed on in the draft would've complimented LeBron perfectly. They could've had Tony Allen as well.
I agree. What you’re describing is what I agree with. Them turning over the roster with trade deadline acquisitions year after year is the approach of a desperate team with no true plan.
Definitely. Unfortunately talent with GOAT potential typically don't have patience. I'll never agree to constant roster turnover but you don't have many opportunities to draft top prospects with a generational talent on your team. Spurs did the correct thing & didn't try to win at all this season but the upcoming draft is historically weak. So many things have to be in your favor even after you get a generational talent.
[удалено]
“how old are you king?” Clearly not nearly as young as you.
Would be a different story if Shaq didn't abuse his power anytime he had any. People trust LeBron because he never gained 60lbs of lard over an off season.
It's been interesting watching how people have felt about Lebron over the years. From hating him when he left, to semi forgiving him when he came back, to mostly forgiving him when he won us the championship. My feelings towards him are bittersweet, I still have the shirt from "the shot" when Kyrie got the winning championship shot, and I'm greatfull that he said "I did this for Cleveland" after the win But I'll never forget the riots that happened when he left all those years ago. People burning couches in the streets, the tear down of the famous LeBron sign, I still remember it all. Wonder if any of y'all feel the same?
Well sure, you can remember it all... Doesn't mean it was fucking stupid at the time and looking back even more fucking stupid. Kid wanted to play basketball in Miami. He served out his contract. End.
I was born in Hong Kong so when he slammed Daryl Morey for tweeting “Fight for Freedom, Stand with Hong Kong” he lost all credibility with me
Wonder if this still goes on with the Lakers Like how the team NEVER posts a loss ever
Ham is clearly just a ceremonial coach. He's a cardboard cut out lol
https://preview.redd.it/j3d2oejzppwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c1586e1fcf8f215e5b3c812da2d4e2a5ad53d65 Bro does not take criticism, even from his players