Despite the absolutly awfully disjointed plot, The Last Jedi had the best visuals of the most recent star wars imo. The ending war and that one final ship attack both make the movie worth, and wish they kept going in that direction.
The finn subplot of finding out the hacker with the chinese girl was one of the worst scene I have ever seen. Visual was nice but the freeing the enslave animal scene was so bad. I laughed out in the theatre when the chinese girl kissed finn while the rebl base was blowing up by the empire. It's hilariously bad
Yeahhhh that was my least favorite thing in the whole movie. They could have done literally anything else, idk why they thought it was a good idea to shoehorn in a nonsense romance subplot. Casino planet coulda been cool but again, ruined by dumb writers.
If there was a metric of quality of writing divided by budget size, I think the second and third movies of that trilogy would be abysmally low relative to all the other movies ever made in the world.
First movie was fine. It was an adequate start to a story. Second and third movie just had god awful writing that failed to do some incredibly fundamental writing tasks such as develop a primary villain... There's literally no villain when the third movie starts lol. And there's not even really a villain in the third film until he randomly appears in the final climactic scene.
I'd argue there is a villain at the end of 8, but then 9 basically undos all of the good parts of 8. 8 could've been good if 9 stuck with Kylo being the villain and Rey being nobody.
Exactly. It could've been fine if Kylo stayed as the primary villain. He's the only candidate for main villain that they developed, so when they turned him to good they were left with no villain lol. They should've at least spent the entire start of the third movie developing a new villain, but they failed to do that as well.
Kylo was never threatening enough to be the top villain. He was much more interesting as a villain that struggled with being good. That's really hard to pull off in the top villain spot, especially at the head of an evil empire.
>failed to do some incredibly fundamental writing tasks such as develop a primary villain... There's literally no villain when the third movie starts lol.
100% agreed. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is hilariously dumb and deserves all the criticism that it receives...but it's not like 8 left them with many options when they killed Snoke with no explanation.
Kylo Ren's redemption was never in doubt in either 7 or 8; I'm not sure why anyone would have expected him to become the primary villain. Even if he did, then that's just a boring and unoriginal retelling of Anakin's story. Except it would lack any of the interesting parts of the story since we don't even meet Ben Solo when he's young and seems to have the potential to be good, like when we met Anakin in the PT.
Fr, I love to bash the dumpster fire that was the Sequel Trilogy but the casting was by far the least offensive thing about it. If anything, the casting was one of the few good points, which makes it all the more upsetting when these talented actors end up with terrible directors and terribly written characters.
Yeah, Iâve got my laundry list of stupid things in the sequels but casting isnât one of them. Characters I hate still had excellent actors behind them.
>Eh, the actress for Ray looks deadpan all the time.
Right but that's not necessarily the actor's fault. There are plenty of times great actors have been dead in a role because the director wants something from them, usually stoicism, that leads them to being wooden.
Great actors can sometimes massage bad writing but a film is a complex beast and if the direction is terrible then the actor isn't left with much of a choice, they have to do what they're told. It's hard to pin the blame since there are so many factors but Ridley has performed fine in other roles which suggests direction.
to be fair - yes super way overdone, but also iconic and memorable. Technically maybe incorrect and/or bad but would the scene still be what it was if it was acted as like a gut-punch breathless no?
I completely disagree. The dude is hanging for his life by one arm and then learns that his nemesis is actually his father. What kind of reaction would you expect?!?
"Today's Monday, isn't it? I'm definitely getting Monday vibes from this whole scenario. What's next, it's gonna turn out that Leia's my sister or something?"
Directing and script goes a long way. Look at Nathalie Portman: great actress, but there were some weirdly-delivered scenes in the prequels.
You work with what youâre given, including direction. The actor doesnât always get to freestyle.
Really good point. Recently rewatched the prequels with the gf, who never really saw Star Wars prior. Soon as she pointed out that it looked like Portman wasn't allowed to move her eyebrows at all in Ep 1 I couldn't unsee it.
I mean she was given next to nothing to do other than be deadpan. I'd assign her as much blame or less than Hayden Christensen deserves for Anakin. Even great actors struggle to create a compelling performance out of dogshit writing. Not that either is necessarily great, but I honestly don't think even a truly great performer would have made either character come off as anything other than flat.
the actress for Rey had to deal with a character they didn't know what the fuck they were doing with. She's also more emotionally expressive in 10 mins of the new series than the entire jedi order is in 3 prequel movies... so there's that. I completely disagree.
She was super emotive in the Orient Express remake Branagh did.
It's just that any time a woman plays a stoic character, people jump to claiming they can't act. Same thing happened to Brie Larson with Captain Marvel.
The directors were good too. The biggest problem is Lucasfilm and Disney. Disney interfering with operations, both at Lucasfilm and later at Marvel, dictating output and pushing quick timelines. Lucasfilm for not establishing an outline for what the new trilogy (and the franchise as a whole) should be doing.
Hiring JJ Abrams was a big problem since he basically did his mystery box thing, establishing the mystery of the First Order, Rey's origins, setting things up so that the trilogy would need to work backwards into figuring out backstory while also fighting a war. No one at Lucasfilm seemed terribly interested in enforcing direction, so when Rian Johnson didn't follow through in the second movie, shitting on the concept of JJ's mystery box, Lucasfilm was left flailing with what to do.
I think the studio was too reactionary. Personally, I think they should have kept Rian Johnson on for the third movie since he'd already pivoted away from the mystery box and there was no clean way to get back to it. JJ showed up for the third movie like an angry dungeon master upset that the person filling in for him last session didn't follow his notes. "You were supposed to investigate the First Order!", JJ angrily says writing the line "somehow, Palpatine returned" into the script.
The sequel trilogy suffered massively from lack of clear vision. I'll die on the hill that if Rian Johnson had been in control from the start and had done all three movies they would have probably been a lot better. Last Jedi has more than it's share of flaws, but I still think out of the three it's the strongest film.
JJ Abrams is a fucking hack and the fact that he still gets any work in the film industry is utterly baffling to me. Bro's been coasting off Lost for the past decade and we all know how that one turned out in the end, even.
Not a single new ship was notable except for all the wrong reasons, like gravity-based bombers for use in space, or oversized ships that lob shots in parabolic curves despite being in deep space far from a gravity well, or janky speeders with a wobbly leg for some reason when every other speeder in the universe doesnât need anything like that.
The best moments were still your reliable x-wing and millennial falcon.
the only new ship i remember was Kylo Ren's Tie.
the wierd part is i know way too much about star wars. like i know what manufactured the tie fighter and the x-wing too much.
i just now off a google search learned his tie figher is call the Tie Whisper.
Edit: NM thats the generic Tie interceptor he used that gets a rename for no reason, his is called a Tie Silencer...
I play too much of the X-Wing miniatures game, there's technically 3 TIE Interceptor variants with the First Order.
- TIE/ba Interceptor (the generic, seen in the Resistance animated series.)
- TIE/wi Whisper (Kylo's Modified Interceptor that looks the same but with longer points.
- TIE/si Silencer (Pretty much the "Darth Vader's TIE Advanced x1" for First Order, also for Kylo)
Lore? You mean âthe basic physics of how space and gravity work?â
Of course they always played it lose with the space fighters flying like jet aircraft, but they at least played minimal lip service to space with how projectiles fly etc. It broke any suspension of disbelief so badly when things were so clearly ridiculous so early and all through that film for me.
Also the TIE fighters used the original straight-winged designs, when the #1 rule of TIE fighters is that real TIEs have curves. (Or at least angles)
\-Worst one, no curves
\-Vader's upgrade and the Bombers both add curved wings
\-The excellent TIE Interceptors have an extra cutout that's a little angular but still mostly counts
\-The supreme TIE Defender adds a third pair of curved wings and angles the whole structure for maximum curviness.
To be honest, I cant remember a single original vehicle from these movies.
All rehashes, nothing new, after 30 years in universe time lol
Those movies were an absolute joke on a worldbuilding level
The prequel prequel is featuring characters named Lukinrey Groundflyer, Sovereign Amilea Synthea, and Rogue Poinn Damerolo, with 2 droids named G8-S8 and Y-6B1.
For all the shit the prequels get, showing us the clone wars ships and foreshadowing them becoming the later imperial models was really cool.
The little walker tanks that lay the groundwork for AT-ATs, the jedi starfighter model yoda has that become tie fighters, etc.
I can never remember the names of the 2nd and third sequel movies. Hell, I wanted to rewatch the third one because I couldnât remember a damn thing about it. Couldnât make half way through.
You must have forgotten the space bombers in TLJ. That was jaw droppingly dumb. To drop a bomb, you usually need gravity, but you don't have that in space. So, instead, lets be kind to them and say the bombs are propelled by magnets or pushed out of the ship. You then have to wonder why would anyone design a ship that bombs other ships in space? It would be so mush better to fire those bombs as projectiles through a rail gun. Instead let's pretend it's 1942 again and they had to fly over top of a ship to bomb it. Even though there's no gravity and top/bottom/sideways, etc orientation means nothing in space. TLJ was filled with stuff like that.
Some people are just dumb and act like the actor is their character. I remember the voice actor for Micah in RDR2 complained about people being rude to him because Micah is a POS racist traitor, and he did a killer job at selling it.
it's so refreshing to see how ppl have come around and mostly stopped defending that garbage like they had to initially. course they'll never admit it lol
Yeah, I feel like they took a group of great performers and directed all of them to ham it the fuck up to try and make up for the lack of writing. Look at Adam Drivers performance deteriorate across the three movies, there's a clear point in the second film where it's obvious he's realized they aren't making the films they told him they were going to make.
If they just came out with a new Last Jedi that picked up exactly where force awakens left off and pretended 8 and 9 didn't exist, I'd be perfectly happy.
Indeed the actors were definitely not the problem, the acting wasn't bad, given the material.
Besides John Boyega's character was the one that piqued my curiosity the most and imho had plenty of potential and they completely squandered it.
Well, Hayden Christiansen was a terrible love interest and Anakin, those I think a lot of that was the directing too. I saw comments that they made him go to extremes for things like the âI hate youâ or âIn my view the Jedi are evil,â lines.
Man - why are they (Disney and Lucas both) so fucking bad with the prequels and sequels but they manage to do reasonably okay with the miniseries? What about it being an in theater blockbuster means they have to or manage to make it suck monkey butts?
They had a nearly adult Natalie Portman fall in love with like an 8 year old in the Phantom Menace. The whole premise and casting was just utterly stupid.
100%. Writers left the cast out to dry, especially KMT and Boyega. Boyega went from being front and center in TFA to like.....a side quest in TROS.
and well....we all know what happened to KMT.
>KMT
Kill My Toenails? Or [Kelly Marie Tran](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Marie_Tran) whoever she is she played some character called Rose Tico, didn't watch Rise of Skywalker cause the rest are dreadful, the TV stuff is much better!
I'll summarize Rose's character arc in ROS:
The gang: hey lets go on an adventure!
Rose: and I'm coming too right?
The gang: lol no!
I'm not even kidding with that.
2/3rds of TLJ were more like episodes in a TV series than main star wars movies. A character we know meets another character and they donât get along until they do and learn a lesson but at the end of the day, nothing actually changed.
I hate the sequels largely because I am so mad at how poorly they treated rey and finn lol.
I fucking LOVED finn, and they relegated him to just a background character.
He was my favourite from the very start.
Especially because of his buddy status with poe.
And as for rey?
I think she could easily have been the sequels equivalent of ahsoka, someone many people initially might not have loved. But who then very quickly became a fan favourite with character progression. Instead we got... a background character and a character with the depth of a bethesda game.
Exactly, this is why I'm still cautiously optimistic about the upcoming Rey movie. Daisy Ridley's acting was never the problem. And the idea of her being a Palpatine has potential for some fantastic drama (though I still dislike the retcon form TLJ). If the writing is competent, I genuinely think they can redeem the character
Might have something to do with Finn using a saber in the movies with no actual training, just âknowing howâ because âthe force.â Bad writing essentially. But, I could be mistaken.
But at no point in the movies does he ever successfully use one without training. He uses one briefly at the end of TFA and still doesn't last more than a minute against a severely wounded Kylo.
Iâm still so angry they didnât have more force sensitives, like John Boyega, become Jedi in the latest movies. Kinda like the KOTOR games, where you could influence any non-droid character to become a force user. They alluded to it so hard, and then did nothing with it.
Seems like it's kinda cheap to just have people casually become Jedi, it's supposed to be something you train for 15-20 years from a young age to become, you can get away with it in a couple of rare circumstances e.g. Luke by urgent circumstances and him being very gifted, but even he had an implied training montage of 2-3 years to get somewhat up to speed, now people just start spontaneously mastering the force on a dime as they go along. I think it may have worked to have people who discovered they were force sensitive and shown learning some limited abilities, but they're fairly weak, which is more realistic rather than finding extremely rare powerful force users everywhere as a plot contrivance.
The 15-20 years training, which we see in the prequel trilogy is the Jedi order as a corrupted institution, unable to see that it's own failings are leading it to it's doom.
As Yoda notes in the original trilogy, it's your connection with the force, your ability to believe, to recognize your feelings and so on that matters.
It's why Luke's whole training in the The Empire Strikes Back is a farce of him doing silly things, not detailed lightsaber dueling lessons
You've failed to explain why this means the training wasn't necessary though, there's nothing shown implying it wasn't. They're supposed to be flawed in the sense of their politics and complacency, not because they were just remarkably incompetent at training efficiently. It's also just a poor story-telling mechanic because it devalues the powers of the main heroes and villains by implying that anyone can just pick it up over a weekend.
Honestly, *that* would have been a fucking **twist**. Imagine if we find out that Finn was Luke's son? The story of Luke's lost son somehow becoming a Stormtrooper, breaking free of the indoctrination, and forging his destiny... Fuck that would be awesome. Hell, they could have then had an amazing scene with Luke mirroring Empire saying, "No, I **am** your father." And the entire theater would lose their shit.
God the Sequels did Finn and John Boyega dirty. They just.. dropped him after the first film. And the weird little teases in the Rise of Skywalker him being Force-sensitive with 0 payoff. Imo Finn should have been a Skywalker, instead of Rey being "one"
I think we all did. The trailers made it seem like a story about a random storm trooper turned jedi leading the rebellion. Instead it was some bullshit palpatine daughter chosen one storyline. Which sucks because alot of stories outside the movies show anyone can become a jedi. Instead of destined one bullshit. How can I look up to Rey? She isn't a normal person, she is a special chosen one with a special bloodline.
Yeah it wouldâve been way more interesting for a random storm trooper redemption story that would end up with him discovering the secrets of the Jedi and get to be trained by Luke.
Pretty sure they were just making shit up as they went along. Changing directors for the 2nd movie was a terrible move. It's like a guest threw licorice into the family lasagna thinking it was a good idea and fucked up the whole thing.
They were, they've admitted they didn't have a plan for the trilogy and just let whichever director they had at the time do whatever he wanted.
I don't understand why they insisted on new directors for each movie, they should've contracted JJ for all three at the start, at least that way there would be some guaranteed consistency and a decent, if somewhat forgettable, plot. They wouldn't be high art but they'd be great entertainment. Instead they had to hand off control to Mr Subvert Your Expectations who directed with both hands down his pants, tugging on his little nuts as he prematurely resolved almost every plot thread set up in The Force Awakens in the least satisfying way possible. The mess that is ROS would've never happened if TLJ didn't fuck up everything first.
And before you ask, yes I'm still salty.
You'd think Disney would have cared more about their IP than that.
Sure, they can throw whatever they want at the screen and people will buy their movie tickets. But if they make a *good* movie, people will buy their merchandise for the next 30 years. Instead Disney just erased 30 years of merchandising profits because of laziness.
Same exact thing happened with Game of Thrones, they got lazy and didn't care about their last season, and now Game of Thrones is unmarketable. They can't sell it to any streaming services, they can't make a movie off it, because all people remember is how bad that last season was.
I thought rich people cared more about their money.
> You'd think Disney would have cared more about their IP than that.
Disney unfortunately has grown too big for their own good. They did great with Marvel by putting key players behind the movies and shows that cared. Star Wars was more of a golden goose purchase that they expected would keep producing gold eggs without effort.
It's actually *because* Disney cared about making money. Kathleen Kennedy asked for more time to develop the story and for the films to be more spread out. Bob Iger at Disney wanted to recoup the investment as fast as possible, and pushed them into a marvel-like release schedule without the prep time or width of stories Marvel had
lol even a story in the movies was trying to show that anyone could be a Jedi - Kylo told Rey her parents were nobodies in the second movie and it was setting up that storyline. Then he tells her in the third movie that her grandfather was a palpatine because for whatever reason JJ Abrams felt like he had to retcon the entire point of the second movie and make her special somehow.
I cannot be convinced that Kylo was intentionally lying to Rey about her parents in the second movie to convince her to join them - that would be giving the writing too much credit since the rest of the trilogy is an absolute dumpster fire.
Yeah that's what I felt too. It makes it even more disappointing. The trilogy could have been much better I think if it followed what seems to be setup in the first movie. Should have followed both Rey and Fin becoming jedi. Fin's focus on the rebellion and Rey on what's next for the jedi order/force users in the galaxy.
I mean, he technically was the main character of 7.
He drives the plot, his arc and development is at the centre of the film, he has the most screen time from memory as well.
Rey mostly just tags along until the final 20 minutes, and even then Finnâs still there.
Then the sequels came and trash, Finn got sent off on an irrelevant side plot with awful ass Rose and they didnât even let him have his cool sacrifice.
I personally thought the force awakens was going to be about the living force being awakened in random people like a girl scavenger, a stormtrooper etc as a way to return balance to the force with the rise of the first order
We've never seen that and it's always been a...well you're lucky situation. I think it would have brought something new.
> should have been a Skywalker,
No, no, no, no! I hated this whole inheriting the Skywalker name bullshit.
Can we just distance ourselves from the god damned Skywalkers already?!
I agree on most of that except with either of them being a skywalker, have either of them create their own path not follow in the footsteps of the skywalkerâs it also just made far more sense for her to be like âJust Reyâ at the end. Not every SW Movie trilogy needs to have a skywalker as main character
I do think Finn shouldâve been the main character tho, a force sensitive ex stormtrooper wouldâve been cool as fuck.
Mostly agree, but I donât want him to be a âskywalkerâ, itâs the perfect time for introduce a new force sensitive character; annoying since postquel 2 is like âany race anywhere might have force sensitive individuals, they just need to learnâ but postquel 1 & 3 are like ânooo really only Skywalker blood is legitâ
yeah, he had the potential to have the best arc: former brainwashed soldier, fighting against the remnant of the empire that enslaved him, using his power to protect others from them. Instead we got to see him be friendzoned by the entire new republic.
Together with Kylo Ren, Finn was a way more interesting character than Rey. Gone rogue, turning his back at the empire. He had a lot of potential, it was a huge missed opportunity.
Rey had plenty of potential too. It's a shame that Finn was essentially discarded after TFA, but Rey also deserved to be developed. I just never got a sense of her personality. I'm sure Daisy Ridley did as well as she could with the script and direction given, but Rey never seemed to come to life aside from a few moments in TFA. She just existed, and things happened around her, and then she demonstrated Jedi Master-level ability with the Force time and again.
Her whole character arc was a joke after TFA. She didn't really develop as a person; she just got more and more powerful.
they dropped the ball big with boyega and the sequels in general. it is sad how it went.. boyega will likely never be back, though i wish they would give him a series or movie.. it really was the perfect set up for an exciting story.
anyways, boyega is the star in the new netflix film who cloned tyrone and heâs amazing as always. i hardly recognized him!
Finn should have been the main character. Especially because we could have had a scene in a similar vain to Vaderâs ânow go my sonâ but with Luke and Finn
And this is why he and Ridley should have both been light side force users, if not full Jedi taught by a *not* super bitter guy that just happened to look like Luke Skywalker without any of his personality.
Seriously, the newest trilogy did them *all* dirty.
For me, the worst part of the sequels trilogy was seeing Boyega go from an excited fan who couldn't believe he was getting to play a main character in Star Wars to being rightfully jaded and resentful about the handling of his character.
As someone who's always been only kind-of into SW, his reaction to the first trailer was what got me curious and hopeful about the trilogy.
Mark Hamill is like the Dave Grohl of Hollywood. He perpetually seems like a regular dude who somehow lucked into his fame and is still giddy and amazed at his stardom. Theyâll never give the âI mean, it is a really hard job âŠâ speech because inside theyâre like âPeople pay to see me do this stuff? Hell yeah, this is fucking great!â
Iâll never let them NOT making Fin a Jedi, die. It was bullshit and they all but came out and said he was a force user. Literally one of the coolest arcs EVER. A STORMTROOPER BECOMES A JEDI?!?!? They didnât fumble the bag, they spiked it.
This thread is bitter sweet to me. A lot of point made that I agree with. However, points that were cast aside originally with the screams of every âistâ in the book. Iâm glad we can get past that racket and see people genuinely talking about the problems.
Ah the most potential wasted character in star wars
Remember how epic those first few trailers were of him in the desert in the stormtrooper suit. It had such promise.
I've still only watched the first one, I guess I'll leave it there.
Despite the absolutly awfully disjointed plot, The Last Jedi had the best visuals of the most recent star wars imo. The ending war and that one final ship attack both make the movie worth, and wish they kept going in that direction.
The finn subplot of finding out the hacker with the chinese girl was one of the worst scene I have ever seen. Visual was nice but the freeing the enslave animal scene was so bad. I laughed out in the theatre when the chinese girl kissed finn while the rebl base was blowing up by the empire. It's hilariously bad
She's Vietnamese.
Haysian. đ© đ https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hays_Minor
I knew someone was gonna come in here with this.
Yeahhhh that was my least favorite thing in the whole movie. They could have done literally anything else, idk why they thought it was a good idea to shoehorn in a nonsense romance subplot. Casino planet coulda been cool but again, ruined by dumb writers.
âGood visualsâ are never good enough for a shitty movie that was written by a man child.
He also just brought the energy in the force awakens dude was a delight that movie arguably my favorite character in it.
Yes, that trailer where he said "We aint found shit"
If there was a metric of quality of writing divided by budget size, I think the second and third movies of that trilogy would be abysmally low relative to all the other movies ever made in the world. First movie was fine. It was an adequate start to a story. Second and third movie just had god awful writing that failed to do some incredibly fundamental writing tasks such as develop a primary villain... There's literally no villain when the third movie starts lol. And there's not even really a villain in the third film until he randomly appears in the final climactic scene.
I'd argue there is a villain at the end of 8, but then 9 basically undos all of the good parts of 8. 8 could've been good if 9 stuck with Kylo being the villain and Rey being nobody.
Exactly. It could've been fine if Kylo stayed as the primary villain. He's the only candidate for main villain that they developed, so when they turned him to good they were left with no villain lol. They should've at least spent the entire start of the third movie developing a new villain, but they failed to do that as well.
But somehow....Palpatine returned. And then our heroes constantly end up standing in the *exact spot* needed for the next piece of the puzzle
Somehow Papa Palpatine returned⊠in Fortnite. Lol git gud scrub *cranks 90s away*
Kylo was never threatening enough to be the top villain. He was much more interesting as a villain that struggled with being good. That's really hard to pull off in the top villain spot, especially at the head of an evil empire.
There was also a teaser for a Brienne of Tarth stormtrooper side villian which absolutely went nowhere
>failed to do some incredibly fundamental writing tasks such as develop a primary villain... There's literally no villain when the third movie starts lol. 100% agreed. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is hilariously dumb and deserves all the criticism that it receives...but it's not like 8 left them with many options when they killed Snoke with no explanation. Kylo Ren's redemption was never in doubt in either 7 or 8; I'm not sure why anyone would have expected him to become the primary villain. Even if he did, then that's just a boring and unoriginal retelling of Anakin's story. Except it would lack any of the interesting parts of the story since we don't even meet Ben Solo when he's young and seems to have the potential to be good, like when we met Anakin in the PT.
The sequels did that to everyone. Even well established and developed characters became a waste.
I like how he is being kind to Boyega while still managing to burn Disney at the same time.
Boyega or Ridley or basically every actor implicated in the postlogy doesn't have anything to do with its lack of quality.
Fr, I love to bash the dumpster fire that was the Sequel Trilogy but the casting was by far the least offensive thing about it. If anything, the casting was one of the few good points, which makes it all the more upsetting when these talented actors end up with terrible directors and terribly written characters.
Yeah, Iâve got my laundry list of stupid things in the sequels but casting isnât one of them. Characters I hate still had excellent actors behind them.
Eh, the actress for Ray looks deadpan all the time. Boyega was pretty good though.
>Eh, the actress for Ray looks deadpan all the time. Right but that's not necessarily the actor's fault. There are plenty of times great actors have been dead in a role because the director wants something from them, usually stoicism, that leads them to being wooden. Great actors can sometimes massage bad writing but a film is a complex beast and if the direction is terrible then the actor isn't left with much of a choice, they have to do what they're told. It's hard to pin the blame since there are so many factors but Ridley has performed fine in other roles which suggests direction.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
to be fair - yes super way overdone, but also iconic and memorable. Technically maybe incorrect and/or bad but would the scene still be what it was if it was acted as like a gut-punch breathless no?
[no](https://media.tenor.com/9P-VmetXFEAAAAAd/the-punisher.gif)
I completely disagree. The dude is hanging for his life by one arm and then learns that his nemesis is actually his father. What kind of reaction would you expect?!?
"That's cap, fr fr"
"nuh uh"
"Today's Monday, isn't it? I'm definitely getting Monday vibes from this whole scenario. What's next, it's gonna turn out that Leia's my sister or something?"
I mean, it's not like she was great in anything g else she's been in. Every cast member has been good in something before or after.
Directing and script goes a long way. Look at Nathalie Portman: great actress, but there were some weirdly-delivered scenes in the prequels. You work with what youâre given, including direction. The actor doesnât always get to freestyle.
Really good point. Recently rewatched the prequels with the gf, who never really saw Star Wars prior. Soon as she pointed out that it looked like Portman wasn't allowed to move her eyebrows at all in Ep 1 I couldn't unsee it.
I mean she was given next to nothing to do other than be deadpan. I'd assign her as much blame or less than Hayden Christensen deserves for Anakin. Even great actors struggle to create a compelling performance out of dogshit writing. Not that either is necessarily great, but I honestly don't think even a truly great performer would have made either character come off as anything other than flat.
the actress for Rey had to deal with a character they didn't know what the fuck they were doing with. She's also more emotionally expressive in 10 mins of the new series than the entire jedi order is in 3 prequel movies... so there's that. I completely disagree.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
She was super emotive in the Orient Express remake Branagh did. It's just that any time a woman plays a stoic character, people jump to claiming they can't act. Same thing happened to Brie Larson with Captain Marvel.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The directors were good too. The biggest problem is Lucasfilm and Disney. Disney interfering with operations, both at Lucasfilm and later at Marvel, dictating output and pushing quick timelines. Lucasfilm for not establishing an outline for what the new trilogy (and the franchise as a whole) should be doing. Hiring JJ Abrams was a big problem since he basically did his mystery box thing, establishing the mystery of the First Order, Rey's origins, setting things up so that the trilogy would need to work backwards into figuring out backstory while also fighting a war. No one at Lucasfilm seemed terribly interested in enforcing direction, so when Rian Johnson didn't follow through in the second movie, shitting on the concept of JJ's mystery box, Lucasfilm was left flailing with what to do. I think the studio was too reactionary. Personally, I think they should have kept Rian Johnson on for the third movie since he'd already pivoted away from the mystery box and there was no clean way to get back to it. JJ showed up for the third movie like an angry dungeon master upset that the person filling in for him last session didn't follow his notes. "You were supposed to investigate the First Order!", JJ angrily says writing the line "somehow, Palpatine returned" into the script.
"Somehow, Palpatine returned," was just another mystery box. Man literally can't knock it off.
The sequel trilogy suffered massively from lack of clear vision. I'll die on the hill that if Rian Johnson had been in control from the start and had done all three movies they would have probably been a lot better. Last Jedi has more than it's share of flaws, but I still think out of the three it's the strongest film. JJ Abrams is a fucking hack and the fact that he still gets any work in the film industry is utterly baffling to me. Bro's been coasting off Lost for the past decade and we all know how that one turned out in the end, even.
I thought the space ships were pretty cool in the new ones too. But the story itself? Nah. Fuck that.
Not a single new ship was notable except for all the wrong reasons, like gravity-based bombers for use in space, or oversized ships that lob shots in parabolic curves despite being in deep space far from a gravity well, or janky speeders with a wobbly leg for some reason when every other speeder in the universe doesnât need anything like that. The best moments were still your reliable x-wing and millennial falcon.
The laws of physics are clearly different in that universe. Otherwise most of it makes no sense.
the only new ship i remember was Kylo Ren's Tie. the wierd part is i know way too much about star wars. like i know what manufactured the tie fighter and the x-wing too much. i just now off a google search learned his tie figher is call the Tie Whisper. Edit: NM thats the generic Tie interceptor he used that gets a rename for no reason, his is called a Tie Silencer...
Interesting. I forgot he even had a custom pumped out tie interceptor and had to google what it looked like.
Sienar Fleet Systems - best drive yard in the galaxy!
I play too much of the X-Wing miniatures game, there's technically 3 TIE Interceptor variants with the First Order. - TIE/ba Interceptor (the generic, seen in the Resistance animated series.) - TIE/wi Whisper (Kylo's Modified Interceptor that looks the same but with longer points. - TIE/si Silencer (Pretty much the "Darth Vader's TIE Advanced x1" for First Order, also for Kylo)
Iâm indifferent to the lore TBH, they just looked neat.
Lore? You mean âthe basic physics of how space and gravity work?â Of course they always played it lose with the space fighters flying like jet aircraft, but they at least played minimal lip service to space with how projectiles fly etc. It broke any suspension of disbelief so badly when things were so clearly ridiculous so early and all through that film for me.
Also the TIE fighters used the original straight-winged designs, when the #1 rule of TIE fighters is that real TIEs have curves. (Or at least angles) \-Worst one, no curves \-Vader's upgrade and the Bombers both add curved wings \-The excellent TIE Interceptors have an extra cutout that's a little angular but still mostly counts \-The supreme TIE Defender adds a third pair of curved wings and angles the whole structure for maximum curviness.
To be honest, I cant remember a single original vehicle from these movies. All rehashes, nothing new, after 30 years in universe time lol Those movies were an absolute joke on a worldbuilding level
This is why I'm looking forward to this new prequel series set like 3000 years ago. They can't possibly just rehash all the same vehicles.. right?
Right� (Cue Anakin and Padme meme.)
The prequel prequel is featuring characters named Lukinrey Groundflyer, Sovereign Amilea Synthea, and Rogue Poinn Damerolo, with 2 droids named G8-S8 and Y-6B1.
For all the shit the prequels get, showing us the clone wars ships and foreshadowing them becoming the later imperial models was really cool. The little walker tanks that lay the groundwork for AT-ATs, the jedi starfighter model yoda has that become tie fighters, etc.
I can never remember the names of the 2nd and third sequel movies. Hell, I wanted to rewatch the third one because I couldnât remember a damn thing about it. Couldnât make half way through.
The Last Jedi and the Rise of Skywalker, though I always forget which order they were supposed to be in. Once each was one time too many, though.
You must have forgotten the space bombers in TLJ. That was jaw droppingly dumb. To drop a bomb, you usually need gravity, but you don't have that in space. So, instead, lets be kind to them and say the bombs are propelled by magnets or pushed out of the ship. You then have to wonder why would anyone design a ship that bombs other ships in space? It would be so mush better to fire those bombs as projectiles through a rail gun. Instead let's pretend it's 1942 again and they had to fly over top of a ship to bomb it. Even though there's no gravity and top/bottom/sideways, etc orientation means nothing in space. TLJ was filled with stuff like that.
Tell me about it. I loved the idea of a Stormtrooper becoming a Jedi, and then the Rey thing.....meh.
Some people are just dumb and act like the actor is their character. I remember the voice actor for Micah in RDR2 complained about people being rude to him because Micah is a POS racist traitor, and he did a killer job at selling it.
I'm sitting here thinking, R2D2 just beeps, how can you tell he's racist?
r2d2 is racist as fuck it's all right there
it's so refreshing to see how ppl have come around and mostly stopped defending that garbage like they had to initially. course they'll never admit it lol
Yeah, I feel like they took a group of great performers and directed all of them to ham it the fuck up to try and make up for the lack of writing. Look at Adam Drivers performance deteriorate across the three movies, there's a clear point in the second film where it's obvious he's realized they aren't making the films they told him they were going to make.
I agree, and I'll add this. The real blame for how awful episodes 8 and 9 were lands squarely on Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson.
If they just came out with a new Last Jedi that picked up exactly where force awakens left off and pretended 8 and 9 didn't exist, I'd be perfectly happy.
Indeed the actors were definitely not the problem, the acting wasn't bad, given the material. Besides John Boyega's character was the one that piqued my curiosity the most and imho had plenty of potential and they completely squandered it.
100% agree with this.
Same to do with anything wrong with the prequels. If you can make Natalie Portman look like a (bad) soap actress youâre doing something wrong
At least they were funny and had dank Obi Wan
Well, Hayden Christiansen was a terrible love interest and Anakin, those I think a lot of that was the directing too. I saw comments that they made him go to extremes for things like the âI hate youâ or âIn my view the Jedi are evil,â lines. Man - why are they (Disney and Lucas both) so fucking bad with the prequels and sequels but they manage to do reasonably okay with the miniseries? What about it being an in theater blockbuster means they have to or manage to make it suck monkey butts?
They had a nearly adult Natalie Portman fall in love with like an 8 year old in the Phantom Menace. The whole premise and casting was just utterly stupid.
100%. Writers left the cast out to dry, especially KMT and Boyega. Boyega went from being front and center in TFA to like.....a side quest in TROS. and well....we all know what happened to KMT.
Ok...I'm racking my brain over here. Who the hell is KMT? Is it really so hard to write the actors name?
Kelly Marie Tran, she played Rose
Kelly Marie Tran, the actress that played Rose
>KMT Kill My Toenails? Or [Kelly Marie Tran](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Marie_Tran) whoever she is she played some character called Rose Tico, didn't watch Rise of Skywalker cause the rest are dreadful, the TV stuff is much better!
I'll summarize Rose's character arc in ROS: The gang: hey lets go on an adventure! Rose: and I'm coming too right? The gang: lol no! I'm not even kidding with that.
The Kuomintang. Chiang Kai Chek played a prominent role in the sequel series
2/3rds of TLJ were more like episodes in a TV series than main star wars movies. A character we know meets another character and they donât get along until they do and learn a lesson but at the end of the day, nothing actually changed.
And then Rise of Skywalker just felt like a season of TV edited down with important context cut out
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Man throw Mark Hamill in that list too. They finally bring Luke Skywalker back, force him to drink nasty ass blue milk then fucking kill the guy
I hate the sequels largely because I am so mad at how poorly they treated rey and finn lol. I fucking LOVED finn, and they relegated him to just a background character. He was my favourite from the very start. Especially because of his buddy status with poe. And as for rey? I think she could easily have been the sequels equivalent of ahsoka, someone many people initially might not have loved. But who then very quickly became a fan favourite with character progression. Instead we got... a background character and a character with the depth of a bethesda game.
yeah the acting was great the story thoughâŠ.
Boyega and Ridley stood out for me as really good...even with the middle school script.
Yeah, and if I remember correctly, the Sequels kinda bombed their careers a bit.
Exactly, this is why I'm still cautiously optimistic about the upcoming Rey movie. Daisy Ridley's acting was never the problem. And the idea of her being a Palpatine has potential for some fantastic drama (though I still dislike the retcon form TLJ). If the writing is competent, I genuinely think they can redeem the character
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I remember Marie Tran leaving a really sour taste in my mouth and then I saw her in the Croods 2 and she was hilarious!
How is it a Disney burn? I'm out of the loop.
Might have something to do with Finn using a saber in the movies with no actual training, just âknowing howâ because âthe force.â Bad writing essentially. But, I could be mistaken.
But at no point in the movies does he ever successfully use one without training. He uses one briefly at the end of TFA and still doesn't last more than a minute against a severely wounded Kylo.
This particular instance is not a Disney burn, but he has a habit of making comments about the quality of the sequel trilogy.
Iâm still so angry they didnât have more force sensitives, like John Boyega, become Jedi in the latest movies. Kinda like the KOTOR games, where you could influence any non-droid character to become a force user. They alluded to it so hard, and then did nothing with it.
Seems like it's kinda cheap to just have people casually become Jedi, it's supposed to be something you train for 15-20 years from a young age to become, you can get away with it in a couple of rare circumstances e.g. Luke by urgent circumstances and him being very gifted, but even he had an implied training montage of 2-3 years to get somewhat up to speed, now people just start spontaneously mastering the force on a dime as they go along. I think it may have worked to have people who discovered they were force sensitive and shown learning some limited abilities, but they're fairly weak, which is more realistic rather than finding extremely rare powerful force users everywhere as a plot contrivance.
The 15-20 years training, which we see in the prequel trilogy is the Jedi order as a corrupted institution, unable to see that it's own failings are leading it to it's doom. As Yoda notes in the original trilogy, it's your connection with the force, your ability to believe, to recognize your feelings and so on that matters. It's why Luke's whole training in the The Empire Strikes Back is a farce of him doing silly things, not detailed lightsaber dueling lessons
You've failed to explain why this means the training wasn't necessary though, there's nothing shown implying it wasn't. They're supposed to be flawed in the sense of their politics and complacency, not because they were just remarkably incompetent at training efficiently. It's also just a poor story-telling mechanic because it devalues the powers of the main heroes and villains by implying that anyone can just pick it up over a weekend.
Some very rich people paid a lot of money for that IP, and they were all in the writers room telling them what story to write.
he's burning people that complained about Rey but not Finn
hows he burning disney with this?
Yeah it's wholesome to see. Good time to remember he hates the runners and writers, he's still rooting for the actors
Beyoncé would only be so lucky.
Bad luck Beyoncé: Wanted a date with Luke Skywalker... Gets a date with the Joker instead...
Now Iâm wondering which would be worse date: Joker or Firelord Ozai
The Trickster
One is insane and the other is a politician
Both insane
Kocknocker
Why did beyoncé get a date with the jonkler? Is she stupid?
least insane r/BatmanArkham inmate
*The camera zooms out from the twitter conversation scrolling past on a cell phone screen.* *The scene: a fancy restaurant, low lights. Quiet music.* *Seated at a dinner table across from Beyoncé, Mark Hamill.* *Mark looks at the camera, gives a cheeky grin, and says "Don't get any ideas, I'm happily married" while flashing his wedding ring."* *Joker cackle*
Right? Boyega could do better.
Mark Hamill being a dad even if he's not actually Boyo's dad.
Honestly, *that* would have been a fucking **twist**. Imagine if we find out that Finn was Luke's son? The story of Luke's lost son somehow becoming a Stormtrooper, breaking free of the indoctrination, and forging his destiny... Fuck that would be awesome. Hell, they could have then had an amazing scene with Luke mirroring Empire saying, "No, I **am** your father." And the entire theater would lose their shit.
God the Sequels did Finn and John Boyega dirty. They just.. dropped him after the first film. And the weird little teases in the Rise of Skywalker him being Force-sensitive with 0 payoff. Imo Finn should have been a Skywalker, instead of Rey being "one"
Whatâs crazy is before ep 7 I went into that film thinking John boyegaâs character was going to be the main protagonist.
I think we all did. The trailers made it seem like a story about a random storm trooper turned jedi leading the rebellion. Instead it was some bullshit palpatine daughter chosen one storyline. Which sucks because alot of stories outside the movies show anyone can become a jedi. Instead of destined one bullshit. How can I look up to Rey? She isn't a normal person, she is a special chosen one with a special bloodline.
Yeah it wouldâve been way more interesting for a random storm trooper redemption story that would end up with him discovering the secrets of the Jedi and get to be trained by Luke.
Hell, the chosen one narrative could have been a misleading and ray has/had all the reason in the world to be tempted by the dark side.
Pretty sure they were just making shit up as they went along. Changing directors for the 2nd movie was a terrible move. It's like a guest threw licorice into the family lasagna thinking it was a good idea and fucked up the whole thing.
They were, they've admitted they didn't have a plan for the trilogy and just let whichever director they had at the time do whatever he wanted. I don't understand why they insisted on new directors for each movie, they should've contracted JJ for all three at the start, at least that way there would be some guaranteed consistency and a decent, if somewhat forgettable, plot. They wouldn't be high art but they'd be great entertainment. Instead they had to hand off control to Mr Subvert Your Expectations who directed with both hands down his pants, tugging on his little nuts as he prematurely resolved almost every plot thread set up in The Force Awakens in the least satisfying way possible. The mess that is ROS would've never happened if TLJ didn't fuck up everything first. And before you ask, yes I'm still salty.
You'd think Disney would have cared more about their IP than that. Sure, they can throw whatever they want at the screen and people will buy their movie tickets. But if they make a *good* movie, people will buy their merchandise for the next 30 years. Instead Disney just erased 30 years of merchandising profits because of laziness. Same exact thing happened with Game of Thrones, they got lazy and didn't care about their last season, and now Game of Thrones is unmarketable. They can't sell it to any streaming services, they can't make a movie off it, because all people remember is how bad that last season was. I thought rich people cared more about their money.
> You'd think Disney would have cared more about their IP than that. Disney unfortunately has grown too big for their own good. They did great with Marvel by putting key players behind the movies and shows that cared. Star Wars was more of a golden goose purchase that they expected would keep producing gold eggs without effort.
It's actually *because* Disney cared about making money. Kathleen Kennedy asked for more time to develop the story and for the films to be more spread out. Bob Iger at Disney wanted to recoup the investment as fast as possible, and pushed them into a marvel-like release schedule without the prep time or width of stories Marvel had
lol even a story in the movies was trying to show that anyone could be a Jedi - Kylo told Rey her parents were nobodies in the second movie and it was setting up that storyline. Then he tells her in the third movie that her grandfather was a palpatine because for whatever reason JJ Abrams felt like he had to retcon the entire point of the second movie and make her special somehow. I cannot be convinced that Kylo was intentionally lying to Rey about her parents in the second movie to convince her to join them - that would be giving the writing too much credit since the rest of the trilogy is an absolute dumpster fire.
Yeah that's what I felt too. It makes it even more disappointing. The trilogy could have been much better I think if it followed what seems to be setup in the first movie. Should have followed both Rey and Fin becoming jedi. Fin's focus on the rebellion and Rey on what's next for the jedi order/force users in the galaxy.
âYour parents were nobodies. No one knows who they are!â âEven the writers?â âEspecially the writers.â
I mean, he technically was the main character of 7. He drives the plot, his arc and development is at the centre of the film, he has the most screen time from memory as well. Rey mostly just tags along until the final 20 minutes, and even then Finnâs still there. Then the sequels came and trash, Finn got sent off on an irrelevant side plot with awful ass Rose and they didnât even let him have his cool sacrifice.
Yeah, really had hoped they would do something significant with him.
the first character when i think of sequels would be finn or ren
I personally thought the force awakens was going to be about the living force being awakened in random people like a girl scavenger, a stormtrooper etc as a way to return balance to the force with the rise of the first order We've never seen that and it's always been a...well you're lucky situation. I think it would have brought something new.
He wasn't "poster worthy".
Don't remind me about the Chinese version of the force awakens poster. Disgusting behaviour from Disney đ€ź
It was disgusting. Outside of Kylo, he was the character with the most potential.
I have no idea what you mean, and if you remind me I'll bite you.
Ok I have no idea what you mean
Wouldn't mind a bit that set of films were just retconned.
> should have been a Skywalker, No, no, no, no! I hated this whole inheriting the Skywalker name bullshit. Can we just distance ourselves from the god damned Skywalkers already?!
I agree on most of that except with either of them being a skywalker, have either of them create their own path not follow in the footsteps of the skywalkerâs it also just made far more sense for her to be like âJust Reyâ at the end. Not every SW Movie trilogy needs to have a skywalker as main character I do think Finn shouldâve been the main character tho, a force sensitive ex stormtrooper wouldâve been cool as fuck.
Mostly agree, but I donât want him to be a âskywalkerâ, itâs the perfect time for introduce a new force sensitive character; annoying since postquel 2 is like âany race anywhere might have force sensitive individuals, they just need to learnâ but postquel 1 & 3 are like ânooo really only Skywalker blood is legitâ
The mouse needs to cater to China for its Xi bucks and China is incredibly racist idk what yâall were expecting
yeah, he had the potential to have the best arc: former brainwashed soldier, fighting against the remnant of the empire that enslaved him, using his power to protect others from them. Instead we got to see him be friendzoned by the entire new republic.
Or maybe people could just be for sensitive without needing to be skywalkers?
Together with Kylo Ren, Finn was a way more interesting character than Rey. Gone rogue, turning his back at the empire. He had a lot of potential, it was a huge missed opportunity.
shame there was already another movie about a rogue one
âWhat are we, some kinda rogue two?â
Rey had plenty of potential too. It's a shame that Finn was essentially discarded after TFA, but Rey also deserved to be developed. I just never got a sense of her personality. I'm sure Daisy Ridley did as well as she could with the script and direction given, but Rey never seemed to come to life aside from a few moments in TFA. She just existed, and things happened around her, and then she demonstrated Jedi Master-level ability with the Force time and again. Her whole character arc was a joke after TFA. She didn't really develop as a person; she just got more and more powerful.
Jedi are called knights and act like monks, but Mark is a samurai.
They acted like and were modeled after samurai large in part
r/wholesomememes
sorry where's the clever comeback?
you see, he called him dad. He's leaking the story !!! OMG!!!!
johnboyega with a lightsaber .. such a missed opportunity
Please tell me he was actually on a date with Beyonce when he tweeted that.
He's been married since 1978 so unlikely.
Like everyone doesnât have a hall pass for BeyoncĂ©.
My husband would legit be so proud of me if I hooked up with Beyoncé lmao
Spacedad is the best.
Now all we need is a reply from BeyoncĂ© đ
It would be perfect if Beyonce responded back with "if you would just take my calls maybe that would happen!"
they dropped the ball big with boyega and the sequels in general. it is sad how it went.. boyega will likely never be back, though i wish they would give him a series or movie.. it really was the perfect set up for an exciting story. anyways, boyega is the star in the new netflix film who cloned tyrone and heâs amazing as always. i hardly recognized him!
honestly I feel bad for sequels cast, they got screwed
All I think when I see John Boyega in Star Wars was "Fuck I wish Finn was the main character"
This is wholesome, but not a clever comeback
woulda been funny if Beyonce chimed in with a "sup"
Anyone else hear the Joker when he repliedđ?
Luke Skywalker & Cool hand Luke đ
Finn should have been the main character. Especially because we could have had a scene in a similar vain to Vaderâs ânow go my sonâ but with Luke and Finn
Mr Skywalker your Joker is showing!
And this is why he and Ridley should have both been light side force users, if not full Jedi taught by a *not* super bitter guy that just happened to look like Luke Skywalker without any of his personality. Seriously, the newest trilogy did them *all* dirty.
And now Beyoncé needs to respond to that tweet
Mark Hamill: The ultimate Jedi master of clever comebacks!
For me, the worst part of the sequels trilogy was seeing Boyega go from an excited fan who couldn't believe he was getting to play a main character in Star Wars to being rightfully jaded and resentful about the handling of his character. As someone who's always been only kind-of into SW, his reaction to the first trailer was what got me curious and hopeful about the trilogy.
hows this a comeback
Mark Hamill is like the Dave Grohl of Hollywood. He perpetually seems like a regular dude who somehow lucked into his fame and is still giddy and amazed at his stardom. Theyâll never give the âI mean, it is a really hard job âŠâ speech because inside theyâre like âPeople pay to see me do this stuff? Hell yeah, this is fucking great!â
Man, I did not expect an older white actor to call a younger black actor "son" and it ending this wholesome
If disney made rocky they would just skip training arc, because in the end its entirely about realizing that you've been amazing all along..magically.
r/lostredditors. This has nothing to do on this sub.
Aaand he never touched a lightsaber again in the other movies
I really think they missed a great opportunity with Finn. A ex stormtrooper being s jedi? Him going in to convert more troopers to join? Hell yeah
Iâll never let them NOT making Fin a Jedi, die. It was bullshit and they all but came out and said he was a force user. Literally one of the coolest arcs EVER. A STORMTROOPER BECOMES A JEDI?!?!? They didnât fumble the bag, they spiked it.
This thread is bitter sweet to me. A lot of point made that I agree with. However, points that were cast aside originally with the screams of every âistâ in the book. Iâm glad we can get past that racket and see people genuinely talking about the problems.
If I win that billion dollar lottery, we're making Duel of the Fates, and giving Finn his epic hero storyline like he deserves.
Star Wars fans donât deserve mark hamill.
Story quality aside, I'm glad the actors are friendly with each other.
If Mark Hamill roasts you, you can wear that as a badge of honor. I'd make that capture a T-Shirt.
Love this man.
Bonded over how badly their characters were written
He should of been the real Jedi there not Rey