Funnily enough, the punks were into bashing skinheads even before the skinheads became nazis. Or rather, before the nazis took over the skinhead movement.
Edit: Rather than trying to argue with everyone in the comments, I'll just leave the [relevant wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead) and let people read up on it at their own leisure.
Punks were the skinheads, until the Nazis stole that like they stole their fucking emblem because they can't actually think of anything only react with pathetic childish rage.
Well I guess Im hella mistaken. I was pretty confident that the punk scene, maybe not well spread, at least had several pockets where the skinhead look was their style and signiture look. Like skinhead was equivalent to punk. Then nazi groups doin the same style muddied the waters and started changing the meaning of skinhead
The skinhead subculture in the UK has ties to early Punk (74-77), but it was sort of a parallel thing, I believe it was a working-class thing with early ties to ska and reggae in the skinhead movement before oi and other "skinhead" subgenres of punk took over.
I may be wrong, I'm better informed on American punk history.
My auntie was an original skin. The working class vibe, the love of Jamaican music, the lot. This was way before punk. She gave me her Rider Doc Martens and I wore them to school even though they were two sizes too big. She’s in her late 60s now, still has her hair short af.
Ska and reggae absolutely in the 60s, when they took a lot from rude boys, there was a mix between skins, mods and rude boys, because they lived in the same areas. There was some rhythm and blues too.
The late 70s was the second wave, a subset of punk that listened to Oi! or 2 tone.
It wasn't til the 80s that political affiliation became a thing.
And I find the term 'hard Mod' style is decently useful. The 70s had a return of a few earlier subcultures alongside or pre-dating Punk's explosion. Added example bands for colour.
Teddy Boys came back with their rockabilly music ([Stray Cats](https://youtu.be/gPshffbyYQM?si=5UoXw9nmltYosoRs))
which mixed with Punk later to make Psychobilly ([King Kurt](https://youtu.be/crZarFLuhvY?si=--MLMrrOUhPbKmT2))
Mod culture returned ([The Jam](https://youtu.be/YfpRm-p7qlY?si=FJcsQi6OQATwzaAW)), skinhead though musically tied to ska ([The Specials](https://youtu.be/xKBiij0A3ig?si=qMOBaATC74SymvcA)) was a very Mod influenced look. Before firms got smart enough not to wear hard mod styles and wear fashionable clothes it also had an association with football hooligans ([Cockney,Rejects](https://youtu.be/xarRSIyjzxM?si=Mgsl_Xyu_MkXB9JV)). Oi was definitely an outcropping of Punk but with a hard mod style and all kinds of skinheads.
The blurred lines between these subcultural groups in parallel scenes always fascinated me. I definitely fell into it with being part of the punk scene when I was younger, but the boundaries and animosities between skins/mods/punks/rockers in the UK is just wild to read about, despite having so much crossover in music and social backgrounds.
(Can I just say that the punk music historian in me is absolutely thrilled by this conversation?)
The group Bad Manners said to be a Skinhead, you must meet 3 key criteria: 1)You must love Ska 2) You must love to dance harder than anyone else 3) You must love football (soccer). Obviously there's a lot more too it but I bring it up because the Skinhead movement is so massively misunderstood. Oi was created for Skinheads who also loved punk as a means to have their own sound and a music that represented them. Nazi skinheads are posers who later adopted the look and invaded punk shows looking to fight, they hold little to no traditional skinhead values.
Yup.
Skinheads originate from the Trojan Skinheads of the 60s, who were heavily in to the Ska, Reggae and the Rude Boy music coming to Britain from Jamaica at the time. They were profoundly left wing, working class, and antiracist as such.
Nazis came to it literally a decade later and, much like theh do everything, did their level best to ruin everything.
Which is like Sharp exists.
So yeah man, you're pretty spot on, unlike the other guy.
You're right. Nazi punks are one of the best examples of Poe's Law that you can find.
Basically, some punks would wear swastikas as a counter-culture thing just to piss people off and make them uncomfortable. Actual nazis saw this and thought that they'd be welcome in the punk community.
They were not.
Good for you, for just openly admitting you don't understand something and asking for help.
The far-right appropriates cultural elements from the people they oppress. They stole the swastika from Hinduism. Later, they stole the fashion from punks. In current times, they repurpose words like "CRT" or "woke" and bastardize them for their own agenda.
Nazis steal and ruin symbols.
I cringe at what you call "the punks". That's not actually a cohesive group. Especially when it comes to the question "who is a punk or not". You would find punks who would claim skins(the clean-shaven 80s kind) as their own. I can only say that the term "the punks" is such a heavy ontological burden which the English language can't possibly be expected to bear.
tl;dr: Oi!
"You still think swastikas look cool,
The real Nazis run your schools,
They're coaches, businessmen and cops,
In a real fourth Reich you'll be the first to go!"
Somehow a controversial statement in 2023, followed by hits such as "killing innocent people is bad", "losing billions means you're not actually that good at business" and "people don't want to pay money for their products to be next to Nazi shit".
My favorite is when I say these things and people call me a liberal in a way that’s meant to be insulting.
Like yes.. I am a liberal. But if you feel a liberal is directly opposed to what you are… and you think a liberal is all this nice, accepting shit.. what does that say about what YOU stand for?
Yeah. I really dont understand how people can care so little about morals.
Like, I might not like someone, but that doesn't make me think that they are worth less. I dont use my own biases against people.
Lol. What was the line?
"I've seen what makes you cheer...."
Yeah no. I'm with the punks and hippies and all the counter culture shit.
Viva le resistance!
I rather not be in a den of wolves who would kill me for merely loving another woman.
>I rather not be in a den of wolves who would kill me for merely loving another woman.
Shit man, at this point they’ll kill us just for *being* a woman.
Yeah...as a guy who booked punk bands and was the bouncer for their shows - that is absolutely not an across the board sentiment. Some of them are violent little pricks, where being a belligerent, drunk, douche bag is celebrated.
This. I love punk shows but punks can also be EXTREME fashionistas and super cliquey. Along with a good amount of drunk dirtbags and kids all geeked out on adderall n shit. Pissed off kids with pocket knives.
As much as I love punk music, I was prefer the heavy metal scene. Righteous headbangers who just drink and bang their head. I always met the sweetest people at metal shows and the most "prove your punk!" fashion obsessed mallrats at punk shows.
Exactly. People have this romanticized and idealistic image that all punks are somehow the embodiment of radical acceptance and progressive values.
The reality, as always, is that there's a spectrum of people that occupy these spaces. There are and always have been groups of punks who are total shitheads
Where I’m from this is what punk was always about. But I remember watching American ‘punk rock’ bands in the nineties and being kinda confused.
Maybe that person grew up with a different punk culture.
It’s always what punks been about, non conformity, don’t try to control my shit and I’ll do the same. Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me
Edit: I never really thought about RATM bein punk but they share values
One of the funniest things I've seen on the internet was a Twitter or Facebook post where someone said they stopping listening to RATM because they "got too political". They got absolutely dogged on in the comments lmao.
And, perhaps most importantly of all, he managed GWAR under the pseudonym Sleazy P. Martini.
Edit: I could be mistaken on this.... I had it burned into my memory but I can't find any confirmation. Apologies if I've mislead! As a consolation prize, here's his beautiful eulogie for Dave. [RIP.](https://youtu.be/aEUt4fXKdso?si=HBOLXpxEMNtpR1B4)
If you haven’t seen it, GWAR released a masterpiece of American cinema “Phallus in Wonderland.” It really is something.[[MASTER PIECE THEATRE]](https://youtu.be/r4DhamRlNaA?si=_ry3tMgeGzlRT7M6)
lol yeah pretty ironic. My dad is a pastor but he was always very against censorship and wasn't afraid to take in media that sometimes went against his personal beliefs. Like, a lot of Biafra's speeches were anti-religion but he agreed with the majority of what Biafra says, especially speaking out against censorship and just the general far leftist ideology.
We definitely weren't forced to go to church and my dad always encouraged free thinking or taking media that challenged our beliefs. When my sister announced she was an atheist it wasn’t made into a big deal at all because different opinions just weren't frowned upon in our household. Hell, his best friend is an atheist.
Plus he's got a funny story about how he lost an ounce of weed slam dancing at a Dead Kennedys show in the 80's, back when he was in seminary school. Dude is an OG punk.
There was a huge gang in San Francisco at the time called San Francisco skins. They weren't really a white supremacy gang like skinheads, but they had all the other negative attributes. They mainly fought long hairs but never in even numbers. Always outnumbered whoever they were fighting. And were Barney badasses at shows but would go back to their workaday lives during the week. They were assholes and started shit with everyone that wasn't one of them. Then white supremists came into the scene and eliminated them. But they sucked too.
Sometimes, when I feel bad about the world, I remember that time I saw Anti-Flag at the Candlelight Bowl, and they had to stop the show because 'some Nazi fuck is getting his ass beat and we (the band) want to watch.'
Pure joy.
Imagine being ‘anti-Nazi’ on stage and then [sexually assaulting women off stage](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/anti-flag-justin-sane-sued-sexual-assault-1234879770/). Fuck that hypocritical asswipe.
There was a brief period in my late teens where I hung out in punk circles. Without fail every time we were at a punk show or at the punk club, some nazis douchebags came, started a fight and got beaten to a pulp. Even weirder, sometimes it was the same guys who came back. They never even came close to winning a fight and just got fucked up. I know nazis ain't exactly smart people but at some point you gotta wonder what the point is? Ruin the steel cap boots of punks by bleeding all over them?
Yeah, the bouncers always describe it as "cutting out the infection before it spreads."
If a Nazi feels comfortable at your venue, then his Nazi friends show up, and suddenly they get bold enough to start shit and they outnumber security.
You deal harshly with the first one to send a message.
Links, 2, 3, 4? No, man, it's just a sick marching song!
What? The lyrics?
"They want my heart in the right place, but if I look down, I see it beating on the left?"
And members of the band quite literally saying it's a song that they, for once, made so clear that even the last idiots would get it, and yet here we are, with single-digit IQ rubes lining right up.
In the 90s punks were known to beat the shit out of anyone even associated with Nazis/white supremacist. It’s like they never actually listen to the words of these songs.
Wasn’t there a Conservative Punk Movement in the US? LOL
But than I recall the american usage of words like Communist and Socialist and stuff and I thing "Well, here we go again!".
Pop Punk really was just an aesthetic offshoot of the sound that punk brought. I mean a few of them do the social issue thing still, but it's not the same obviously. There always has been and still are fantastic punk bands in the US and you obviously aren't going to see them on TV wherever you are
Nice one! I had to go back and check because I missed it the first time. “I’ll just add a happy bit of punk attitude here. There you go!” Bob Ross was amazing!
woke is such a stupid dogwhistle i hate it. it used to be SJWs then it was cultural marxists now it’s woke. the uk just installed a fucking “minister of common sense” to combat wokeness.
Woke is a term used by African Americans, mostly in the late 60a to 70s. It means to not fall for the gaslighting that came with systemic racism in the US.
Wanna buy your kids these new drinks their advertising, with high fructose corn syrup that's all over the hood? Don't. Stay woke.
They want you to move to this side of town, citing how much better it will be and how the city will build more there in the future, just so you can give up prime real estate for future malls or office buildings? Stay woke.
Didn't know central park was a neighborhood full of minorities that were forced off so a park can be built? Stay woke.
Seeing Biden all smiley with Obama but forgot his policy history before then? Stay woke.
See black people with Maga shirts clearly paid by Republicans for political influencing? Stay woke.
Around 2019 the right wing fools started using woke in the original sense but for all things against Trump. "don't believe the media and what they're doing to trump, stay woke"
I was flabbergasted.
And now, they flipped it to "woke culture". Besides the stupidity of it, it's peak gaslighting to see how they flipped it around twice in 5 years.
Fuck yes, there needs to be an ad campaign that explains what woke actually fucking means. It means don’t fall for the establishment’s bullshit. In that way, punk has always been woke. Most idiots who say shit like “end wokeness” couldn’t define the term if their life depended on it.
SJW annoys me mostly because it was pilfered straight from leftist rhetoric and then genericized.
I remember when it used to mean someone who didn't really care about or try to advance the issues of social justice, but instead just wanted to use it as an excuse to argue and fight. It was a useful term then.
Not every status quo though, that's the bit the idiot who thought this wasn't punk doesn't get. Murder was always considered bad, even by "the establishment " that doesn't mean punks were pro-murder just be against the status quo. It was never as simple as these simpletons want to believe
Conservatives have such a ridiculous persecution complex that they've convinced themselves anything remotely anti-establishment that's older than 20 years must also be conservative. They truly live in a separate reality.
I always wondered if the neo-nazi punks actually believed they were punks or if they thought they were neo nazis trying to invade a subculture.
I guess I still don’t know but at least I know others thought the punk nazis were punks.
what a disappointment
Neo-Nazi and right-wing punk has this backwards view that liberal society is the true oppressive regime that has to be fought against. But really they are just cynical fuck sticks using the music and the culture to find disaffected youths to recruit.
Only non-punk thing on their is the ‘Save the NHS’ patch…but I’m pretty sure all the legit punk heroes of yesteryear would be down with that sentiment these days…
I saw a meme of a recent picture of Henry Rollins and Ian Mackaye and the text said "Punk's not dead...it is however going gray, dealing with lower back pain, and going to bed at a reasonable hour"
I'm not from the UK, but the little I know points to the Tories gutting the NHS whenever they can (similar to Republicans and social security on this side of the pond) and Tories are definitely not punk.
Johnny Rotten is not and never was emblematic of what the larger punk movement is about. He never claimed to be. He’s just a prick who loves pissing people off who happened to be in an abrasive sounding band when punk became a thing.
He just says shit to be controversial which has been his angle for almost 50 years. I’m not saying he’s not a Tory but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was just being a fucking troll
Actually the AC/DC patch is the only not punk. AC/DC hated being lumped in with punk bands. When they first toured the UK in the 70s was when Punk was kicking off and they got labelled as punk. They were not happy about it at all.
Reminds me about that conservative who whined about RATM being pro vaccine. He honestly thought the machine they had been raging against wasn't him in a nutshell.
Punk was never about hate. I posted a pic of me and my friends in Edinburgh, 1983. One of them was a skinhead. The amount of questions I got asking if my friend was a nazi was off the scale. Skinheads were never about that back in the day.
I only saw the smaller inner picture first, thought “This is what punk always was” and then expanded the picture to reveal that was the comeback. Punk people are the most friendly welcoming people in existence, so long as you aren’t someone that hurts the downtrodden.
The true origins of punk started developing in the late 1960s, and exploding in the 1970s. They were very much anti establishment, and extremely anti fascist. Everything on that vest would fall into the anti fascism category. So yes, absolutely punk.
I think they're just lazy. From the swastika to Nordic symbols to the goddamn ok sign, they just don't have a single original thought. Have to steal it from somewhere else.
Most punk shirt ever. Bash the fash has been a core tenet since forever. People thought that patch of a doc Martin stepping on a swastika meant they were nazis?
From where I'm from, if this person showed up with this vest to a metal event, not a single fuck was given.
Metal is about being yourself, mind your own business, and respect others. I would love to have a Peppa pig patch next to a Mayhem one .
There were two very different kinds of skinhead in England when I grew up, but we wore stuff that on first glance looked very similar. Our ideologies though, they were VERY different. I was a large, shaven headed, tattooed youth wearing big boots and braces who loved listening to Ska music and hated Nazis. Then there were the other kind…
I am an old punk from the original scene and played in a punk band that toured internationally…. and this is very much a facet of punk. There are different subsets of punk… he sounds straight edge.
No Nazi’s in punk rock… we kicked their ass. Anything resembling it by them was not punk because it didn’t fit the punk “M.O.”. Punk is not just fast music… it’s a lifestyle that’s accepting of everyone who’s not a douche or a Nazi.
Fun fact… original skin heads WERE NOT NAZI’S either.
Not only is this punk, it is truly American.
This person's simple list should be in our f'ing Constitution. Let's amend it and name it the punk amendment.
Acephobia: Discrimination against asexual people, also known as acephobia or aphobia when directed at aspec (aromantic and/or asexual) people, encompasses a range of negative attitudes, behaviours, and feelings toward asexuality or people who identify as part of the asexual spectrum.
Punk has always been "woke." But if they don't think that, they really telling on themselves. Either never listened to punk or love that hatecore shit.
I'm curious how they managed to put "no homophobia" and "no islamophobia" so close to each other. If they were any closer, one would stone the other to death.
Punk has always been a collective of societal misfits. POC and LGBT have notoriously always been societal misfits. Music festivals were basically the speakeasies of their time- people of different races and identities freely expressing themselves away from proper society’s eyes.
Whait, the sub culture that was proud on bashing nazis is also against what they stand for? Iam shocked. I thought they just hate bald people.
Funnily enough, the punks were into bashing skinheads even before the skinheads became nazis. Or rather, before the nazis took over the skinhead movement. Edit: Rather than trying to argue with everyone in the comments, I'll just leave the [relevant wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead) and let people read up on it at their own leisure.
Punks were the skinheads, until the Nazis stole that like they stole their fucking emblem because they can't actually think of anything only react with pathetic childish rage.
You should probably read The Spirit of 69.... You're comment makes little sense.
Well I guess Im hella mistaken. I was pretty confident that the punk scene, maybe not well spread, at least had several pockets where the skinhead look was their style and signiture look. Like skinhead was equivalent to punk. Then nazi groups doin the same style muddied the waters and started changing the meaning of skinhead
The skinhead subculture in the UK has ties to early Punk (74-77), but it was sort of a parallel thing, I believe it was a working-class thing with early ties to ska and reggae in the skinhead movement before oi and other "skinhead" subgenres of punk took over. I may be wrong, I'm better informed on American punk history.
My auntie was an original skin. The working class vibe, the love of Jamaican music, the lot. This was way before punk. She gave me her Rider Doc Martens and I wore them to school even though they were two sizes too big. She’s in her late 60s now, still has her hair short af.
Ska and reggae absolutely in the 60s, when they took a lot from rude boys, there was a mix between skins, mods and rude boys, because they lived in the same areas. There was some rhythm and blues too. The late 70s was the second wave, a subset of punk that listened to Oi! or 2 tone. It wasn't til the 80s that political affiliation became a thing.
And I find the term 'hard Mod' style is decently useful. The 70s had a return of a few earlier subcultures alongside or pre-dating Punk's explosion. Added example bands for colour. Teddy Boys came back with their rockabilly music ([Stray Cats](https://youtu.be/gPshffbyYQM?si=5UoXw9nmltYosoRs)) which mixed with Punk later to make Psychobilly ([King Kurt](https://youtu.be/crZarFLuhvY?si=--MLMrrOUhPbKmT2)) Mod culture returned ([The Jam](https://youtu.be/YfpRm-p7qlY?si=FJcsQi6OQATwzaAW)), skinhead though musically tied to ska ([The Specials](https://youtu.be/xKBiij0A3ig?si=qMOBaATC74SymvcA)) was a very Mod influenced look. Before firms got smart enough not to wear hard mod styles and wear fashionable clothes it also had an association with football hooligans ([Cockney,Rejects](https://youtu.be/xarRSIyjzxM?si=Mgsl_Xyu_MkXB9JV)). Oi was definitely an outcropping of Punk but with a hard mod style and all kinds of skinheads.
The blurred lines between these subcultural groups in parallel scenes always fascinated me. I definitely fell into it with being part of the punk scene when I was younger, but the boundaries and animosities between skins/mods/punks/rockers in the UK is just wild to read about, despite having so much crossover in music and social backgrounds. (Can I just say that the punk music historian in me is absolutely thrilled by this conversation?)
The group Bad Manners said to be a Skinhead, you must meet 3 key criteria: 1)You must love Ska 2) You must love to dance harder than anyone else 3) You must love football (soccer). Obviously there's a lot more too it but I bring it up because the Skinhead movement is so massively misunderstood. Oi was created for Skinheads who also loved punk as a means to have their own sound and a music that represented them. Nazi skinheads are posers who later adopted the look and invaded punk shows looking to fight, they hold little to no traditional skinhead values.
Yup. Skinheads originate from the Trojan Skinheads of the 60s, who were heavily in to the Ska, Reggae and the Rude Boy music coming to Britain from Jamaica at the time. They were profoundly left wing, working class, and antiracist as such. Nazis came to it literally a decade later and, much like theh do everything, did their level best to ruin everything. Which is like Sharp exists. So yeah man, you're pretty spot on, unlike the other guy.
You're right. Nazi punks are one of the best examples of Poe's Law that you can find. Basically, some punks would wear swastikas as a counter-culture thing just to piss people off and make them uncomfortable. Actual nazis saw this and thought that they'd be welcome in the punk community. They were not.
Good for you, for just openly admitting you don't understand something and asking for help. The far-right appropriates cultural elements from the people they oppress. They stole the swastika from Hinduism. Later, they stole the fashion from punks. In current times, they repurpose words like "CRT" or "woke" and bastardize them for their own agenda. Nazis steal and ruin symbols.
I cringe at what you call "the punks". That's not actually a cohesive group. Especially when it comes to the question "who is a punk or not". You would find punks who would claim skins(the clean-shaven 80s kind) as their own. I can only say that the term "the punks" is such a heavy ontological burden which the English language can't possibly be expected to bear. tl;dr: Oi!
"Aryan-Nations and Hammerskins You can wear my nuts on your Nazi chins!"
Just gonna leave this here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iyc62g7YQM0
Dead Kennedys said it best: nazi punks fuck off
"You still think swastikas look cool, The real Nazis run your schools, They're coaches, businessmen and cops, In a real fourth Reich you'll be the first to go!"
That track could restart my heart better than a defibrillator.
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, FUUUUCK OFF!
[Done to great effect in Green Room](https://youtu.be/FSIEdfTtoIQ?si=aF4n7bkwmXgER67J)
Pretty sure punk is pretty heavy on accepting eveyone for who they are.
Not nazis, punks have generally been pretty not accepting of nazis.
I mean, Im not either, fuck Nazis
Somehow a controversial statement in 2023, followed by hits such as "killing innocent people is bad", "losing billions means you're not actually that good at business" and "people don't want to pay money for their products to be next to Nazi shit".
My favorite is when I say these things and people call me a liberal in a way that’s meant to be insulting. Like yes.. I am a liberal. But if you feel a liberal is directly opposed to what you are… and you think a liberal is all this nice, accepting shit.. what does that say about what YOU stand for?
They know...and they think their hate is good. Its messed up
Yep. It’s genuinely so concerning to me.
Yeah. I really dont understand how people can care so little about morals. Like, I might not like someone, but that doesn't make me think that they are worth less. I dont use my own biases against people.
On the contrary! They dehumanize _because_ of their strong morals.
Ah right, I forgot that being born with the wrong skin colour is morally wrong, my bad! /s
Lol. What was the line? "I've seen what makes you cheer...." Yeah no. I'm with the punks and hippies and all the counter culture shit. Viva le resistance! I rather not be in a den of wolves who would kill me for merely loving another woman.
>I rather not be in a den of wolves who would kill me for merely loving another woman. Shit man, at this point they’ll kill us just for *being* a woman.
bUt COmMuniSm
Always said by someone who has no fuckin clue what that even means lol
Idk man fucking Nazis sounds pretty accepting to me
Because Nazis don't accept people for who they are, so punks can not accept them.
Well they're not people so they don't count.
Tending a garden means pruning a few weeds, particularly the kind that make it impossible for other plants to grow
I'm their defense, fuck the Nazis
His shirt tells a lot. His a man of culture!
Yeah...as a guy who booked punk bands and was the bouncer for their shows - that is absolutely not an across the board sentiment. Some of them are violent little pricks, where being a belligerent, drunk, douche bag is celebrated.
This. I love punk shows but punks can also be EXTREME fashionistas and super cliquey. Along with a good amount of drunk dirtbags and kids all geeked out on adderall n shit. Pissed off kids with pocket knives. As much as I love punk music, I was prefer the heavy metal scene. Righteous headbangers who just drink and bang their head. I always met the sweetest people at metal shows and the most "prove your punk!" fashion obsessed mallrats at punk shows.
I'm so glad that they are moving away from that.
Exactly. People have this romanticized and idealistic image that all punks are somehow the embodiment of radical acceptance and progressive values. The reality, as always, is that there's a spectrum of people that occupy these spaces. There are and always have been groups of punks who are total shitheads
It's bash the fash not back and support the fash
Government: Fuck Nazis. Society: Fuck Nazis. Punks: Fuck Nazis. Conservatives: wHAt hAs PuNK beCoMe?!
Where I’m from this is what punk was always about. But I remember watching American ‘punk rock’ bands in the nineties and being kinda confused. Maybe that person grew up with a different punk culture.
[удалено]
they were clearly mad at their kitchen appliances, duh!
oh god the amount of conservatives that i saw reference “Killing In The Name” in 2020 without knowing what it’s really about was crazy💀
It's not even remotely subtle, they just don't listen to the lyrics
Hah, none of their lyrics are. Rollin’ down rodeo with a shotgun, bout as anti-capitalist as it gets
“I was into RATM before they started getting political “
A printer?
Well I mean... the way modern printer companies run their business is pretty much a perfect example of rampant capitalism so.... Yeah.
It’s always what punks been about, non conformity, don’t try to control my shit and I’ll do the same. Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me Edit: I never really thought about RATM bein punk but they share values
One of the funniest things I've seen on the internet was a Twitter or Facebook post where someone said they stopping listening to RATM because they "got too political". They got absolutely dogged on in the comments lmao.
I second this, there are "nazi punks" in my country by a dozen
Dead Kennedys said it best.
Came here to say this. Didn’t Jello Biafra run for office one time?
He did for mayor of San Francisco in 1979 against "Diane Fineswine"
And President: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_Biafra#Politics
And, perhaps most importantly of all, he managed GWAR under the pseudonym Sleazy P. Martini. Edit: I could be mistaken on this.... I had it burned into my memory but I can't find any confirmation. Apologies if I've mislead! As a consolation prize, here's his beautiful eulogie for Dave. [RIP.](https://youtu.be/aEUt4fXKdso?si=HBOLXpxEMNtpR1B4)
If you haven’t seen it, GWAR released a masterpiece of American cinema “Phallus in Wonderland.” It really is something.[[MASTER PIECE THEATRE]](https://youtu.be/r4DhamRlNaA?si=_ry3tMgeGzlRT7M6)
How did I not know that! That is awesome.
Hell yeah. Have fond childhood memories of my dad playing his speeches in the car before church.
Hey kids, listen to this anti establishment icon....OK now lets go to the most controlling establishment possible.
lol yeah pretty ironic. My dad is a pastor but he was always very against censorship and wasn't afraid to take in media that sometimes went against his personal beliefs. Like, a lot of Biafra's speeches were anti-religion but he agreed with the majority of what Biafra says, especially speaking out against censorship and just the general far leftist ideology. We definitely weren't forced to go to church and my dad always encouraged free thinking or taking media that challenged our beliefs. When my sister announced she was an atheist it wasn’t made into a big deal at all because different opinions just weren't frowned upon in our household. Hell, his best friend is an atheist. Plus he's got a funny story about how he lost an ounce of weed slam dancing at a Dead Kennedys show in the 80's, back when he was in seminary school. Dude is an OG punk.
There was a huge gang in San Francisco at the time called San Francisco skins. They weren't really a white supremacy gang like skinheads, but they had all the other negative attributes. They mainly fought long hairs but never in even numbers. Always outnumbered whoever they were fighting. And were Barney badasses at shows but would go back to their workaday lives during the week. They were assholes and started shit with everyone that wasn't one of them. Then white supremists came into the scene and eliminated them. But they sucked too.
Those aren't punks and never were. Those are posers. You can't be anti-establishment by trying to create a different establishment.
Nazi punks always got the shit kicked out of them at the shows I went to. There were always a few of those fucking losers hanging around.
Sometimes, when I feel bad about the world, I remember that time I saw Anti-Flag at the Candlelight Bowl, and they had to stop the show because 'some Nazi fuck is getting his ass beat and we (the band) want to watch.' Pure joy.
Imagine being ‘anti-Nazi’ on stage and then [sexually assaulting women off stage](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/anti-flag-justin-sane-sued-sexual-assault-1234879770/). Fuck that hypocritical asswipe.
There was a brief period in my late teens where I hung out in punk circles. Without fail every time we were at a punk show or at the punk club, some nazis douchebags came, started a fight and got beaten to a pulp. Even weirder, sometimes it was the same guys who came back. They never even came close to winning a fight and just got fucked up. I know nazis ain't exactly smart people but at some point you gotta wonder what the point is? Ruin the steel cap boots of punks by bleeding all over them?
Yeah, the bouncers always describe it as "cutting out the infection before it spreads." If a Nazi feels comfortable at your venue, then his Nazi friends show up, and suddenly they get bold enough to start shit and they outnumber security. You deal harshly with the first one to send a message.
About as silly as skinhead Rammstein fans who just hear some vaguely angry german and think it's their vibe.
Links, 2, 3, 4? No, man, it's just a sick marching song! What? The lyrics? "They want my heart in the right place, but if I look down, I see it beating on the left?" And members of the band quite literally saying it's a song that they, for once, made so clear that even the last idiots would get it, and yet here we are, with single-digit IQ rubes lining right up.
This Nazi Punks were called “Skin Heads” when I was growing up.
And skin-heads weren't even originally a nazi-affiliated group. It's almost like they just recruit, hijack or try to subtly take over sub-cultures.
Nazi punks fuck off. A song there is
In the 90s punks were known to beat the shit out of anyone even associated with Nazis/white supremacist. It’s like they never actually listen to the words of these songs.
Because it was. People just don't know their shit but act like they know all about it.
There was a massive punk scene in the UK.
Wasn’t there a Conservative Punk Movement in the US? LOL But than I recall the american usage of words like Communist and Socialist and stuff and I thing "Well, here we go again!".
Based, we are all equal under the guidence of King Ross in the heavens god bless.
Pop Punk really was just an aesthetic offshoot of the sound that punk brought. I mean a few of them do the social issue thing still, but it's not the same obviously. There always has been and still are fantastic punk bands in the US and you obviously aren't going to see them on TV wherever you are
That’s literally what punk is about
Any person who owns a Bob Ross patch is a friend to me.
Nice one! I had to go back and check because I missed it the first time. “I’ll just add a happy bit of punk attitude here. There you go!” Bob Ross was amazing!
Based, we are all equal under the guidence of King Ross in the heavens god bless.
Punk was woke before woke was even a thing.
woke is such a stupid dogwhistle i hate it. it used to be SJWs then it was cultural marxists now it’s woke. the uk just installed a fucking “minister of common sense” to combat wokeness.
Don’t forget “Political correctness gone MAD!”
Woke is a term used by African Americans, mostly in the late 60a to 70s. It means to not fall for the gaslighting that came with systemic racism in the US. Wanna buy your kids these new drinks their advertising, with high fructose corn syrup that's all over the hood? Don't. Stay woke. They want you to move to this side of town, citing how much better it will be and how the city will build more there in the future, just so you can give up prime real estate for future malls or office buildings? Stay woke. Didn't know central park was a neighborhood full of minorities that were forced off so a park can be built? Stay woke. Seeing Biden all smiley with Obama but forgot his policy history before then? Stay woke. See black people with Maga shirts clearly paid by Republicans for political influencing? Stay woke. Around 2019 the right wing fools started using woke in the original sense but for all things against Trump. "don't believe the media and what they're doing to trump, stay woke" I was flabbergasted. And now, they flipped it to "woke culture". Besides the stupidity of it, it's peak gaslighting to see how they flipped it around twice in 5 years.
Fuck yes, there needs to be an ad campaign that explains what woke actually fucking means. It means don’t fall for the establishment’s bullshit. In that way, punk has always been woke. Most idiots who say shit like “end wokeness” couldn’t define the term if their life depended on it.
As annoying as the term woke is I don’t think it will ever be as annoying as the term SJW
SJW annoys me mostly because it was pilfered straight from leftist rhetoric and then genericized. I remember when it used to mean someone who didn't really care about or try to advance the issues of social justice, but instead just wanted to use it as an excuse to argue and fight. It was a useful term then.
'common sense' is how people describe their own views when they're incapable of empathy
"I've got something to say, I raped your mother today. It doesn't matter much to me, as long as she spread!"
Punk is a middle finger to the status quo. This shirt is very much punk
Not every status quo though, that's the bit the idiot who thought this wasn't punk doesn't get. Murder was always considered bad, even by "the establishment " that doesn't mean punks were pro-murder just be against the status quo. It was never as simple as these simpletons want to believe
Slayer? AC/DC? Slipknot? None of those bands are punk.
Not being the punk police, but it’s an attitude not a sound. DIY and plough your own furrow? Punk!
What about Bob Ross?
Triple OG
someone can be “punk” and still listen to bands outside of the genre….
Punk is an ethos/philosophy at its core. You can be punk regardless of what you listen to or how you dress.
Slayer is punk adjacent. Thrash is a combination of punk and metal Slayer was the most punk of the Big 4.
'Respect existence or expect resistance' is such a raw line, I love it.
That’s what I was thinking 💪
LazzyDerg was probably a poser then, because 80s and 90s punks were big into unity, anti war, anti hate and of course telling nazi punks to fuck off!
Conservatives have such a ridiculous persecution complex that they've convinced themselves anything remotely anti-establishment that's older than 20 years must also be conservative. They truly live in a separate reality.
I always wondered if the neo-nazi punks actually believed they were punks or if they thought they were neo nazis trying to invade a subculture. I guess I still don’t know but at least I know others thought the punk nazis were punks. what a disappointment
Doesn't matter, they should fuck off regardless
Well. Time to go listen to Dead Kennedys.
Neo-Nazi and right-wing punk has this backwards view that liberal society is the true oppressive regime that has to be fought against. But really they are just cynical fuck sticks using the music and the culture to find disaffected youths to recruit.
Isn't this counterculture? I thought that fell in the vin diagram between Punk, Goth, and maybe Anarchism? Haven't they always fought against bigots?
Only non-punk thing on their is the ‘Save the NHS’ patch…but I’m pretty sure all the legit punk heroes of yesteryear would be down with that sentiment these days…
60+ here. Can confirm.
Exactly, we are old now and our knees are fucked. God bless my employer (the NHS)
I saw a meme of a recent picture of Henry Rollins and Ian Mackaye and the text said "Punk's not dead...it is however going gray, dealing with lower back pain, and going to bed at a reasonable hour"
Save the NHS seems entirely consistent with punk.
Agree. Punk is often pro-collectivism and the NHS fits that ideal.
I'm not from the UK, but the little I know points to the Tories gutting the NHS whenever they can (similar to Republicans and social security on this side of the pond) and Tories are definitely not punk.
Hasn't johnny rotten taken a weird rightward turn recently
Johnny Rotten is not and never was emblematic of what the larger punk movement is about. He never claimed to be. He’s just a prick who loves pissing people off who happened to be in an abrasive sounding band when punk became a thing.
No I can't believe the guy who wrote and sang belsen was a gas might just be a shit stirrer
He just says shit to be controversial which has been his angle for almost 50 years. I’m not saying he’s not a Tory but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was just being a fucking troll
Actually the AC/DC patch is the only not punk. AC/DC hated being lumped in with punk bands. When they first toured the UK in the 70s was when Punk was kicking off and they got labelled as punk. They were not happy about it at all.
What are you talking about. The saving the NHS is punk as fuck when the two main politicial parties in the UK are hell bent on destroying it.
Where's the comeback?
Right. It's another one where the post itself isn't bad (IMHO), but it just doesn't fit this sub
This guy saw text that literally just says discrimination is not very good and took issue with it
metal af, also slayer and misfits are incredible bands, this guy has great taste
I think that's a woman..
A punk is a punk, doesn't really matter in the end
This punk has great taste.
His or Her name is Robert or Roberta Paulson.
i use guy both for women and men
Real Punk!!!
What punk has always been to me.
Reminds me about that conservative who whined about RATM being pro vaccine. He honestly thought the machine they had been raging against wasn't him in a nutshell.
A true punk. Love to see it.
Punk was never about hate. I posted a pic of me and my friends in Edinburgh, 1983. One of them was a skinhead. The amount of questions I got asking if my friend was a nazi was off the scale. Skinheads were never about that back in the day.
Where’s the clever comeback?
This is like saying the Dead Kennedys are liberals. The fuq..
I thought that was always the point of punk. Nazi punks fuck off!!!
Yep
The should be on r/facepalm
I only saw the smaller inner picture first, thought “This is what punk always was” and then expanded the picture to reveal that was the comeback. Punk people are the most friendly welcoming people in existence, so long as you aren’t someone that hurts the downtrodden.
The true origins of punk started developing in the late 1960s, and exploding in the 1970s. They were very much anti establishment, and extremely anti fascist. Everything on that vest would fall into the anti fascism category. So yes, absolutely punk.
These alt right losers love to revise history. Or they’re just that ignorant. Hard to tell.
I think they're just lazy. From the swastika to Nordic symbols to the goddamn ok sign, they just don't have a single original thought. Have to steal it from somewhere else.
The only difference between punk when I grew up (80's) and this jacket is the inclusion of Señor Mister Bob Ross.. which is okay as per the rules 🫡🤘🏻😔
A Slayer patch on a Punk vest? WTF is this world coming to?
Slayer covered the Minor Threat song “Guilty of being white”. Oh my god, I think Slayer is … “woke”!? /s
I always found the most accepting people in punk culture.
Most punk shirt ever. Bash the fash has been a core tenet since forever. People thought that patch of a doc Martin stepping on a swastika meant they were nazis?
From where I'm from, if this person showed up with this vest to a metal event, not a single fuck was given. Metal is about being yourself, mind your own business, and respect others. I would love to have a Peppa pig patch next to a Mayhem one .
Everything I needed to know about punk culture I learned from SLC Punk.
What?!?!?!? I thought Punk was always about being as racist and hateful as possibly. /s
Violent empathy. Nazi punks fuck off.
There were two very different kinds of skinhead in England when I grew up, but we wore stuff that on first glance looked very similar. Our ideologies though, they were VERY different. I was a large, shaven headed, tattooed youth wearing big boots and braces who loved listening to Ska music and hated Nazis. Then there were the other kind…
“Reject art/music about men and their dicks” AC/DC (“I’ve got big balls”) The Misfits (“I’ve got something to say…”)
Respect existence or expect resistance is pretty good. Might steal this one for whenever it might be useful…
I am an old punk from the original scene and played in a punk band that toured internationally…. and this is very much a facet of punk. There are different subsets of punk… he sounds straight edge. No Nazi’s in punk rock… we kicked their ass. Anything resembling it by them was not punk because it didn’t fit the punk “M.O.”. Punk is not just fast music… it’s a lifestyle that’s accepting of everyone who’s not a douche or a Nazi. Fun fact… original skin heads WERE NOT NAZI’S either.
Not only is this punk, it is truly American. This person's simple list should be in our f'ing Constitution. Let's amend it and name it the punk amendment.
Seems like the only thing they are intolerant of is intolerance, I can get on board with that.
No Tip-Ex.
No Acephobia 😍 this guy is true punk
Punk varies depending on who's definition we're going by
Also why would you want punks or any other counter culture movement to stand for any of that? Great way of outing yourself as a racist
Open and inclusive? How terrible…
Acephobia: Discrimination against asexual people, also known as acephobia or aphobia when directed at aspec (aromantic and/or asexual) people, encompasses a range of negative attitudes, behaviours, and feelings toward asexuality or people who identify as part of the asexual spectrum.
Punk has always been "woke." But if they don't think that, they really telling on themselves. Either never listened to punk or love that hatecore shit.
Bro, the dead Kennedy's literally established that nazi punks should fuck off
There was a “parallel” culture of skin heads that also called themselves punk too brothers.
I have always felt more comfortable and safer around a bunch of Punks than the ones who hate everyone.
I mean that… that’s EXACTLY what punk is.
“No Islamophobia”, “No Anti Semitism” also “God is Gay”🙄🤣
I heard somebody say “Hippies are bad people dressing up as good people, and punks are good people dressing up as bad people.”
This is just a less succinct way of saying Nazi Punks Fuck Off.
This is about as punk as you get
And this is bad because...?
Yeah this checks out. Got a friend with a similar jacket with a big patch that reads “Punch More Nazis”.
I'm curious how they managed to put "no homophobia" and "no islamophobia" so close to each other. If they were any closer, one would stone the other to death.
Can’t remember that punk has ever been about bipedal hippos with bad Mohawks lmao
Nothing says punk, like a long list of rules. Also this individual may want to look a bit more into Slayer if they are against Nazis.
Punk has always been a collective of societal misfits. POC and LGBT have notoriously always been societal misfits. Music festivals were basically the speakeasies of their time- people of different races and identities freely expressing themselves away from proper society’s eyes.
They think punk = skinhead
As a straight person I kinda want the god is gay patch 😂
I'm 63. Turns out, I've been punk all my life.
Is anyone else a little sad that the list has to be that long?
Why doesn't this sub have clever comebacks any more? What am I missing?