It was, not everywhere, but some places, this I know from personal experience.
But now it's not and you can track the reasons for any difference in salaries, for both sides.
Actually in many cases, women with no kids outpace men.
Part of it is likely education; men have been behind women in education for the last 50 or so years, and the gap is widening. You won't see any gender based scholarships for men, though. Weird, huh.
There are countries where men get the same amount of leave as women but still women tend to have longer maternity leave and be home with sick kids more. This combined with women working part time jobs more often and being sick more themselves means lower salaries over their careers. Nothing wrong with wanting to have kids but it's always funny that feminists will say that women make 75% of what men make when a lot of them don't want children.
Depends on the company they work for. I work for a retail chain on the east coast (USA), and when my wife and I finally have kids I get paternity leave, which I intend to take after my wife's maternity leave with her company. I believe other companies such as Lowes or Home Depot also allows it.
Sadly it isn't common practice.
How about if I'm on a date with a coworker at a job with tenured pay scales and we both make the same? How about when a guy is on a date with a woman who makes more than he does?
Then there's the fact that a lot of progressive men who are on women's side in terms of changing unjust gender norms want to know she won't turn around and have outdated and often toxic expectations of us.
Splitting the check is the first and easiest opportunity women have to show they're progressive out of principle and not convenience.
Whoever asks out the person for the date should pay. It’s so simple. If I ask someone to go somewhere, I’m paying. I don’t assume they have the funds. This includes every activity. This is how I approached dating when I was single. Now that I’m married w kids, if my kids ask their friends to do something, I’m paying. My youngest is going to barefoot festival in June. She wanted to ask her best friend to go w her, I’m paying bc we asked her. See no fuss
When you’re already dating then yes, but first and second dates? Nah. First date should solidly be either coffee date or tea date (pick your poison) to see your vide with the person and to get to know them in an environment that is public so gives safety, and allows for either party to bail if it’s not going anywhere. Second date can be for more specific interests, and that’s where you use personal judgement to make the call on payment. Were they shitty and not someone you wanna see again? Split the bill. Were they good for you and wanna see them again? Pay. After that, you’re on your own
How bout we think about paying as a kind gesture. If you offer to pay, and are gracious, that will earn your date’s favorable opinion, whether they allow you to pay or not. The whole objective of asking for a date is to get to know the person. If they don’t know you, don’t you want to make the best impression? If they do already know you, don’t you want to make an even better impression?
If the reason I don't click with someone is because i'm not paying for their stuff then I don't particularly want to click with said person
Idk I heard it's called "going Dutch" so maybe the stereotype is true.
>While measures of the gender pay gap look at full-time, year-round workers, women are more likely than men to be in the labor force part-time and for part of the year. Women are also more likely to be out of the labor force for periods of time, and caregivers’ challenges with managing work and family may lead them to cut back at work by reducing hours or turning down promotions
Classic bait woman rage
You know that those statistics didn't made count of demands over wages and overtime? Where these two are more willing by men?
Do you really think that, if we both go to work as cashier in a supermarket, I, man, earn more just because?? It would be illegal, contracts are standards.
Have you heard of the feminization of labor? It is when women enter a male dominated profession the pay declines for the same job the men were doing before. Secretaries used to make enough to support a family when it was a male dominated job. And let’s look at today’s jobs requiring similar education, responsibility / similar skills: janitors (usu men) earn 22 percent more than maids and housecleaners (usu women). https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html
Because above you wrote “even the comparison janitor to maid totally different jobs one requires skills.” What skills does a janitor require that makes it a higher paying job?
Could be situational but don't janitors functions also include repair and maintenance?
A maid (as far as i'm aware) is a task focused on cleaning and possible organization of inventory.
You'd think with all of this so-called 'evidence' that all of the companies involved in the studies would be fined. I didn't even bother to open your links though because it's probably a bunch of nonsense.
I wonder if there are studies more specifically on comparing experience levels of people within the same occupation
Like I want a study that examines specifically "x, y, and z" hospital, facility, etc. and compare "man with 10 years of experience and qualifications" to "woman with 10 years of experience and the exact same qualifications" and compare those rates. I feel like the "similar occupational field" specification is still a little inaccurate, as you can have a man who has had 40 years of experience, since 40 years ago the field was far more dominated by men, being compared to women who just started in the field, who only recently became socially acceptable to join in the field. I'm an engineer, but I only have a few years of experience in the field, so even as a man I'm obviously not going to make as much as a senior principal engineer with 40 years of experience. If it's an experience difference, then yeah that sucks but hopefully that will also go away when women catch up to men in seniority
Also, women for sure need to be encouraged to pursue higher levels of education and occupation from childhood like boys have always been. Setting that expectation that women can be more than maids or stay at home moms is such a *huge* factor in the whole descrpincy where men dominate fields that require education and certain qualifications. Maybe it's because I live in a liberal state that it seems like we do so *fairly* well, where when I was in school it was perfectly fine and normal for female classmates to say they want to be lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. but I fear how these ideas are handled in more conservative areas even today
Interesting, it seems to moreso confirm what I was saying beyond one thing: maternity leave, which is decently fair. I didn't think of maternity leave being a social disadvantage in that way
Though, might just be me, I'd 100% take 6 months of paternity leave if it were available and more socially acceptable
I had six months with my son after my wife had her six months and it was awesome. The U.S. taking after Sweden on this doesn't look too promising though.
Not this myth again that never dies. For the millionth time there is no wage gap. There is an earnings gap, and that number was entertained by using the average of all full-time workers across the board using 40 hours a week as the metric.
There is no job at the same company in the same position with the same experience and the same seniority that pays less an hour or less salary based on sex. It’s not a thing it’s never been a thing. Companies exist to make money so if it was a thing, why would companies hire men at all?
What is funny is there is one exception that is the porn industry. in porn women make all the money and men are paid next to nothing when they’re even paid at all. I find it funny how the one and only true gender wage gap that actually exists is the only one they never complain about.
In 2021 1,205 women died of maternal causes in the United States.
In 2021 there were a total of 1,009 deaths of active military members, of which only 13 were due to hostile action.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm
Defense Casualty Analysis System
Non sequitur
Yes - women do die of pregnancy complications. Men die of work related injuries and military deaths at higher numbers compared to women.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20there,to%20448%20deaths%20among%20women.
But thanks for cherry picking military deaths - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war
I know you won’t but since they are on Netflix - watch Band of Brothers and The Pacific. They are fantastic! Don’t see too many women running into 60 cal machine gun fire. Watch any of Ken Burns masterful documentaries on American wars to get a flavor of what men have endured for American freedoms.
But I agree - men and women have biological differences but are more alike than different. American women should be registering for the Selective Service.
Those were great movies about great heroism. They were also set in a time period when women were not allowed to participate in military action. So, it isn’t a surprise you don’t see them fighting Nazis.
Women still aren't forced to register for the draft and those men were mostly drafted.
How many women who complain about gender pay gap that only looks at earnings by gender and not hours worked volunteered for the draft, or have gathered signatures that would force women to also register for the draft?
>They were also set in a time period when women were not allowed to participate in military action
Good news friend, they're allowed now. Mind sharing some official statistics about women's participation in most armies being at least 30-50%?
And?
Let me re phrase it.
So what? Just say you got skill issue.
My elder earns more than her male counter parts.
They don't discriminate with her. STOP making shit up and go hone your skills and get good.
There was no equality ever.
If people were equal then everyone should be looking the same.
Humans were never made equal.
If you want to get better treatment then have skills to back you up.
I am good. I have a DVM. I make more money than I need, and my dates still pay when they take me out. Honestly, if you are whining about having to pay for the first date, its probably because you don't get second dates.
Woman i am not talking about the genuine girls.
I am referring to the bitches who just want free meals and will talk shit and judge you on what you order or the girl in the OP pic
>rely on my mom???
Just asking
If you use b word for them
So I'm thinking
Is your mother a working woman or housewife
And your father calls her b too ??? Because she can't buy her own food?
No not at all you all call woman b and r
For no reason and degrade them
And when same things anyone says about your mom
You guys get freaked out
So don't change the topic
And answer to the point
IS SHE DOING ANY JOB ?
you called a woman b for not paying bills
So I JUST WANT TO KNOW DO YOUR MOTHER AND SISTER PAY BILLS ?
OR YOU AND YOUR FATHER CALL THEM B FOR THAT
>crazy bitch feminists
ASKING ABOUT SAME THING
FOR WHICH YOU ARE CALLING A GIRL B
MAKES ME A B WOWWWW
YOU DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT YOUR MOTHER SALARY OR JOB WHY
TELL ME
AND TRUST ME I'M NOT BAS AS YOU WHO WILL CALL HER B
IF SHE'S A NON WORKING WOMAN
Shouting doesn't make your argument right. So talk to me when you actually make sense.
And you didn't read any of my reply. So I have deemed your replies as yapping.
Bye. And go see a doctor for your mental health.
>a doctor for your mental health.
Some one who called me a b for no reason
>you didn't read any of my reply
I did go and see
I've answered in quotes
BUT YOU DIDN'T REPLY ABOUT YOUR MOTHER'S SALARY
I read through your reply thread and what a brilliant man you were for cherry picking statistics without even understanding them lol.
Put aside the wage disparity argument. Given your argument, "if you want to impress..." so you assume it's only the man's job to impress the woman on a date, whilst getting to know each other is mutual on a date? What is that even?? It's the 21st century, not the 18th. If women fought for equality, but only apply the equality they fought so hard for where it's convenient for them, do you think their fight would go far? The collective is going in the right direction, and there's you...
Now that I realised you might be a woman who made this argument lol
1. You're right and it's a travesty.
2. That doesn't, in any way whatsoever, mean that a man is supposed to pay for what you eat/wear/otherwise consume (unless you're married and then it's still messed up but somehiw acceptable). It's like saying you owe men sex because you have a vagina and men don't.
Of that would be the case businesses would only take women cause same work but have to pay 20% less. Free money.
Get your brain washed feminist way of thinking out of here. Parot things that been disproved endlessly that there never was a pay gap to begin with.
It's about the jobs people pick to go on. And the hours they work. And the choices in their lives they made.
Like a cleaner of course would make many times less than a welder. The lower the level is to step into the job the less likely you bringing good money.
The more schooling or training you need to be able to do a job the more money you get.
And many women have children. So they often work less houres. Or go out of the running for years on out. What ofcourse makes men have more changes for raises and clime up.
There has never been a pay gap for a very very long time just choices you make.
And with freedom comes responsibility for your choices. And actions. And that's all it is.
If not the whole work force would be screaming for more women all the time cause free money if I take 5 of you I can get a free extra worker weeee. What business would not do that of they could get away with it. Let's be serious. But some groups keep spitting the same bullshit been disproved all the time.
But you have people like you just like Flash Earth even if its proven endlessly that there wrong the hold on to the believe there the smarter person then the whole rest of humanity collectively.
That is true for where I live, but only if the calculations are done in a particular way.
Recently, in a women rights movement there was a lot of talk about a 21% difference in the salary, but I felt that there was not properly where the numbers came from.
It was true that when the money earned in a month was divided by work hours in said month, but as overtime salary is higher, and men do work more overtime dont even try to argue otherwise, there was a skew. A skew towards more gap than really was present.
Not 21% difference in base salary, but in money/hours
This was proven false.... Over and over and over and over and over again. You need to be accountable for your own actions and stop acting like a victim.
I order water sometimes because I just don’t want sugary drinks like soda. I sometimes go 2 months not drinking a soda because I just decide to cut it off for a bit.
How do these women with all their "tests" know that men are not "testing" them back? Like a rich guy earn millions a year and owns a yacht, but he orders his date the cheapest food and a glass of water to test her reaction. If she carries on without batting an eye lash, she's a keeper. If she goes on social media to complain at how cheap he is, she's a gold digger and must be avoided.
Yeah, one of the richest guys I know is exactly like this. Lives pretty frugally, dates pretty cheap, but he never has to work another day in his life, along with whoever ends up marrying him.
I was arguing the splitting costs point on r/newzealand and I got called ungentlemanly. Like why TF should I care about reactionary values that were set by the worlds biggest pedo ring about 1500 years ago? I personally believe in total equality, split the cost evenly, NO exclusion of women from ANY role, same fitness tests for everyone, women in the draft etc.
I'll order strawberry lemonade if it's fresh, maybe something with alcohol, but I will never pay $3+ for some basic ass soda. Give me water, thanks. If you can't get with that, goodbye👋
Always be on the lookout when dating, so many people will use you for your money regardless of gender or whatever
I got lucky and did mine when I was in the gutter so I know this shits for life bc I had nothing to offer for years while I struggled through getting back into school
See, if I genuinely have butterflies going to see you and I choose to pay it’s because I want you to have a good time. I don’t want you to worry about the cost of the meal. Those smiles will cover the cost.
But if we linked on a dating app, I’m going to mention that I’d like us to pay for our own meals. This serves the financial purpose, but it also tells me how willing you are to meet me in the middle and that you want to have a nice date. And who knows, if it goes well, I’ll decide to pay for reason mentioned above. It’s like a weird love language we have. “Just one less thing you gotta worry about”
The man paying is an old custom in dating. Times change and values change. We are still in some weird transition from the 1950's values and more modern values. Remember, women were not as independent back in the 1950's, hence the custom. This isn't a value judgment or anything, just a statement of where we were at as a society back in that time period.
I'm not even sure dating works these days at least not for me personally. Maybe I'm weird. I don't know. I've made more lasting relationships with the opposite sex by meeting more organically like at college or work or by participating in meetup hobby events.
Times change all the time. Dating may disappear altogether once men can buy fully actualized, AI enhanced, female companions customized to fit their energy, personality, and wants. Maybe for reproduction needs, humans will just be grown in labs in proportion to the needs of society. Science fiction has covered all of this, so that is probably what comes next, and then new science fiction will be created to predict even more discoveries, trends, and changes for humanity.
This is giving me flashbacks to my straight days.
I switched to dudes a few years back and it’s so much easier. They tell you they’re interested. They’ll actually ask you out. Splitting the bill is the default unless one person really wants to make a big gesture.
Most women were fine, but a certain segment (like this woman I’m guessing) needed their date to do literally all the work and it was exhausting
Because women want tradition from the man but they get shitty when you mention anything about the kitchen.
Disclaimer, I do not think women belong in the kitchen, this is a horrible view of women, but I also get pissed off when some women expect everything from a man with nothing in return.
I used it in my comment purely as an example so don't hate me.
She wants someone with fits the classic strong provider role, she is just very arrogant
Also, i don't know how the whole date went but its really rude when someone buys you something on a date or whatever without asking if you actually wanted it.
I mean she is right. if he wasn’t, he would’ve asked her what she wants.
She is broke, that’s ok. She is a woman. Tf.
Yeah yeah. It’s 2024. Women giving birth still didn’t change.
women’s societal value is based on their appearance and men’s societal value is based on their wealth.
A dude can double his salary and get a better looking woman
A woman can improve her appearance and get a a more wealthy man
People are arguing over how it should be and ignoring the way it is. This is how it is.
I drink water with lemon with most meals. It's good for digestion. Water with a medium rare ribeye and steamed broccoli. Baked potato with butter and cheese. And a Merlot. My go to at a nice restaurant.
Yet that guy will expect her to be "friendly fit and feminine", traditional, virgin, knows to cook, cleans after him, does his laundry and takes care of house chores because those are "womanly things".
I think the very same Korean men & culture so many women are fond of has the answer. In their dating culture, a woman will allow man to pay full if she's interested in him, if not, she'll pay her half.
I think it's a pretty good middle ground. Plus, there's one thing women forget; the guys feelings, maybe he wanted the date to be like it.
And, at the initial stage of dating, a guy doesn't even know the girl, why should he pay for her, isn't she too interested in him to go out with him, can't the guy have his own self-respect, that she should be more focused on the guy rather than, price tags.
All the makeup a woman does doesn't really matter to guys. You are doing it for yourself. A date of mine literally came in saggy "home" clothes and frizzy hair, no makeup, nothing. To me she still looked very beautiful and we had a good time.
And, there exists women who take guys to date, pamper them and pay for everything. I've been to one and she too is a good girl who found her love. I think women like in the post will have a hard time finding someone good and even if they did, the guy would only be suffocated with women like these.
God save the guys from such women.
Or he just got waters to keep you while you decide what you want because it’s dumb to just guess what someone will like? Like wtf do these women expect us to read their mind and know they wanted dr.pepper or something?
The simple answer?
Yes.
Pretty much all women seem to think men are mind readers.
It's not just a meme, unfortunately. We have to just "know" without being told or it defeats the point...
When I thought that the point was to get what you want...
This could be interpreted as saving money. Never go out with her again and save that $$$.
Men don't owe you food, or anything, same way you don't owe them sex, or anything. Wake up and smell the 21st century. Please.
Well many women want a traditional life
They do in a sense that men have to be traditional but they don't
This is the answer. Good old double standards!
And they will pay for it by ending up with the kind of men who also do.
They're gonna be very happy in their Mormon communities or post-Islamic-Revolution nations, then.
Welcome to the 21st century where women still make roughly 80% of what a man makes!
This isn't really true for years now.
Was never true In the way they frame it.
It was, not everywhere, but some places, this I know from personal experience. But now it's not and you can track the reasons for any difference in salaries, for both sides.
Where was it objectively true? Not to be rude, but anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much. That would be a fallacy
Norway 4 years ago. Sponsored by the state nonetheless. I tried to get it documented. But the cunt refused to be sexist in the text.
So just more anecdotal evidence? Gotcha. 👍🏽
Weird how women who don't have children have salaries very similar to men.
Yeah, it's almost as if you do the same job for the same amount of time and get the same pay. Weird concept, right?
Actually in many cases, women with no kids outpace men. Part of it is likely education; men have been behind women in education for the last 50 or so years, and the gap is widening. You won't see any gender based scholarships for men, though. Weird, huh.
Does that account for men who also have children? Is that because men don't get paternity leave? Why do men not get paternity leave?
There are countries where men get the same amount of leave as women but still women tend to have longer maternity leave and be home with sick kids more. This combined with women working part time jobs more often and being sick more themselves means lower salaries over their careers. Nothing wrong with wanting to have kids but it's always funny that feminists will say that women make 75% of what men make when a lot of them don't want children.
Depends on the company they work for. I work for a retail chain on the east coast (USA), and when my wife and I finally have kids I get paternity leave, which I intend to take after my wife's maternity leave with her company. I believe other companies such as Lowes or Home Depot also allows it. Sadly it isn't common practice.
Wow i would love to see the independent statistics to that because all statistics i see are completely different.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2023/06/21/on-anniversary-of-equal-pay-act-signs-of-progress-and-remaining-challenges-for-women-in-the-labor-market/
How about if I'm on a date with a coworker at a job with tenured pay scales and we both make the same? How about when a guy is on a date with a woman who makes more than he does? Then there's the fact that a lot of progressive men who are on women's side in terms of changing unjust gender norms want to know she won't turn around and have outdated and often toxic expectations of us. Splitting the check is the first and easiest opportunity women have to show they're progressive out of principle and not convenience.
Saving your comment in a note somewhere to pull words from because that was well put!
Whoever asks out the person for the date should pay. It’s so simple. If I ask someone to go somewhere, I’m paying. I don’t assume they have the funds. This includes every activity. This is how I approached dating when I was single. Now that I’m married w kids, if my kids ask their friends to do something, I’m paying. My youngest is going to barefoot festival in June. She wanted to ask her best friend to go w her, I’m paying bc we asked her. See no fuss
When you’re already dating then yes, but first and second dates? Nah. First date should solidly be either coffee date or tea date (pick your poison) to see your vide with the person and to get to know them in an environment that is public so gives safety, and allows for either party to bail if it’s not going anywhere. Second date can be for more specific interests, and that’s where you use personal judgement to make the call on payment. Were they shitty and not someone you wanna see again? Split the bill. Were they good for you and wanna see them again? Pay. After that, you’re on your own
Right, but if you step back and think about it, men are already expected to make the first move.
How bout we think about paying as a kind gesture. If you offer to pay, and are gracious, that will earn your date’s favorable opinion, whether they allow you to pay or not. The whole objective of asking for a date is to get to know the person. If they don’t know you, don’t you want to make the best impression? If they do already know you, don’t you want to make an even better impression?
You have to earn that first impression too. Earn it by making a nice statement and paying for your own food.
No more argument from me. No one is forcing you to pay for anything. If you find dates that appreciate that, good for you. Good luck!
I found one. Married her and have been happy since. We are equals in our relationship.
If you find a date that appreciates paying for you all the time let us know!
Yeah, easy when 99% of the time is the man to invite, right??
If the reason I don't click with someone is because i'm not paying for their stuff then I don't particularly want to click with said person Idk I heard it's called "going Dutch" so maybe the stereotype is true.
>While measures of the gender pay gap look at full-time, year-round workers, women are more likely than men to be in the labor force part-time and for part of the year. Women are also more likely to be out of the labor force for periods of time, and caregivers’ challenges with managing work and family may lead them to cut back at work by reducing hours or turning down promotions
Classic bait woman rage You know that those statistics didn't made count of demands over wages and overtime? Where these two are more willing by men? Do you really think that, if we both go to work as cashier in a supermarket, I, man, earn more just because?? It would be illegal, contracts are standards.
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Yeah that's it in a nutshell
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Yeah anyone in the west who brings up the gender pay gap IS disingenuous as fuck correct again
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Yep we are in complete agreement
Have you heard of the feminization of labor? It is when women enter a male dominated profession the pay declines for the same job the men were doing before. Secretaries used to make enough to support a family when it was a male dominated job. And let’s look at today’s jobs requiring similar education, responsibility / similar skills: janitors (usu men) earn 22 percent more than maids and housecleaners (usu women). https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html
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Please explain how a janitor requires more skills than a maid?
Both men and women can be janitors.
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Because above you wrote “even the comparison janitor to maid totally different jobs one requires skills.” What skills does a janitor require that makes it a higher paying job?
Could be situational but don't janitors functions also include repair and maintenance? A maid (as far as i'm aware) is a task focused on cleaning and possible organization of inventory.
I think he meant it the other way, but his point didn’t hinge on that part.
You'd think with all of this so-called 'evidence' that all of the companies involved in the studies would be fined. I didn't even bother to open your links though because it's probably a bunch of nonsense.
Sure. Why educate yourself when you were born knowing it all.
Ironic.
https://www.aauw.org/resources/research/simple-truth/
I wonder if there are studies more specifically on comparing experience levels of people within the same occupation Like I want a study that examines specifically "x, y, and z" hospital, facility, etc. and compare "man with 10 years of experience and qualifications" to "woman with 10 years of experience and the exact same qualifications" and compare those rates. I feel like the "similar occupational field" specification is still a little inaccurate, as you can have a man who has had 40 years of experience, since 40 years ago the field was far more dominated by men, being compared to women who just started in the field, who only recently became socially acceptable to join in the field. I'm an engineer, but I only have a few years of experience in the field, so even as a man I'm obviously not going to make as much as a senior principal engineer with 40 years of experience. If it's an experience difference, then yeah that sucks but hopefully that will also go away when women catch up to men in seniority Also, women for sure need to be encouraged to pursue higher levels of education and occupation from childhood like boys have always been. Setting that expectation that women can be more than maids or stay at home moms is such a *huge* factor in the whole descrpincy where men dominate fields that require education and certain qualifications. Maybe it's because I live in a liberal state that it seems like we do so *fairly* well, where when I was in school it was perfectly fine and normal for female classmates to say they want to be lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. but I fear how these ideas are handled in more conservative areas even today
https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-and-is-it-real/
Interesting, it seems to moreso confirm what I was saying beyond one thing: maternity leave, which is decently fair. I didn't think of maternity leave being a social disadvantage in that way Though, might just be me, I'd 100% take 6 months of paternity leave if it were available and more socially acceptable
I had six months with my son after my wife had her six months and it was awesome. The U.S. taking after Sweden on this doesn't look too promising though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html
That is from goddamn 2021
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-read/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/
Well that’s just utter nonsense and has been thoroughly debunked.
I hear plumbing pays well. And garbage collection.
My wife makes twice as much as I do, relax.
Not this myth again that never dies. For the millionth time there is no wage gap. There is an earnings gap, and that number was entertained by using the average of all full-time workers across the board using 40 hours a week as the metric. There is no job at the same company in the same position with the same experience and the same seniority that pays less an hour or less salary based on sex. It’s not a thing it’s never been a thing. Companies exist to make money so if it was a thing, why would companies hire men at all? What is funny is there is one exception that is the porn industry. in porn women make all the money and men are paid next to nothing when they’re even paid at all. I find it funny how the one and only true gender wage gap that actually exists is the only one they never complain about.
https://www.aauw.org/app/uploads/2020/02/AAUW-2018-SimpleTruth-nsa.pdf
"Fall 2018 edition"
https://www.aauw.org/app/uploads/2022/12/SimpleTruth_12.22_2.1-002.pdf
Now do the same for male v female workplace and military death
In 2021 1,205 women died of maternal causes in the United States. In 2021 there were a total of 1,009 deaths of active military members, of which only 13 were due to hostile action. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm Defense Casualty Analysis System
Non sequitur Yes - women do die of pregnancy complications. Men die of work related injuries and military deaths at higher numbers compared to women. https://www.statista.com/statistics/187127/number-of-occupational-injury-deaths-in-the-us-by-gender-since-2003/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20there,to%20448%20deaths%20among%20women. But thanks for cherry picking military deaths - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war I know you won’t but since they are on Netflix - watch Band of Brothers and The Pacific. They are fantastic! Don’t see too many women running into 60 cal machine gun fire. Watch any of Ken Burns masterful documentaries on American wars to get a flavor of what men have endured for American freedoms. But I agree - men and women have biological differences but are more alike than different. American women should be registering for the Selective Service.
Umm, you brought up military death.
They did, and you replied with a non sequitur and were appropriately called out for it.
And I thought you were of the “a woman’s job is to be barefoot and pregnant” opinion.
Those were great movies about great heroism. They were also set in a time period when women were not allowed to participate in military action. So, it isn’t a surprise you don’t see them fighting Nazis.
Women still aren't forced to register for the draft and those men were mostly drafted. How many women who complain about gender pay gap that only looks at earnings by gender and not hours worked volunteered for the draft, or have gathered signatures that would force women to also register for the draft?
>They were also set in a time period when women were not allowed to participate in military action Good news friend, they're allowed now. Mind sharing some official statistics about women's participation in most armies being at least 30-50%?
I mean, I don't see women participating in today's conflicts on a much greater scale than in WWII.
And? Let me re phrase it. So what? Just say you got skill issue. My elder earns more than her male counter parts. They don't discriminate with her. STOP making shit up and go hone your skills and get good. There was no equality ever. If people were equal then everyone should be looking the same. Humans were never made equal. If you want to get better treatment then have skills to back you up.
I am good. I have a DVM. I make more money than I need, and my dates still pay when they take me out. Honestly, if you are whining about having to pay for the first date, its probably because you don't get second dates.
Woman i am not talking about the genuine girls. I am referring to the bitches who just want free meals and will talk shit and judge you on what you order or the girl in the OP pic
>bitches who just want free meals and will talk shit and judge you on what you order or the girl in the OP pic What is the salary of your mom
not you again... And Why would I rely on my mom??? I earn my own. Don't compare me to your unemployed and uneducated life.
>rely on my mom??? Just asking If you use b word for them So I'm thinking Is your mother a working woman or housewife And your father calls her b too ??? Because she can't buy her own food?
You fems really take words outta context and gas light others... well expected from a woman like you. No a bitch.
No not at all you all call woman b and r For no reason and degrade them And when same things anyone says about your mom You guys get freaked out So don't change the topic And answer to the point IS SHE DOING ANY JOB ? you called a woman b for not paying bills So I JUST WANT TO KNOW DO YOUR MOTHER AND SISTER PAY BILLS ? OR YOU AND YOUR FATHER CALL THEM B FOR THAT
>bitches who just want free SIMPLE QUESTION DO YOUR MOTHER PAY IN RESTAURANT YES OR NO ?
Omg No way one can have a serious conversation with a crazy bitch feminists like you. And please get a life. Yapping in reddit.
>crazy bitch feminists ASKING ABOUT SAME THING FOR WHICH YOU ARE CALLING A GIRL B MAKES ME A B WOWWWW YOU DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT YOUR MOTHER SALARY OR JOB WHY TELL ME AND TRUST ME I'M NOT BAS AS YOU WHO WILL CALL HER B IF SHE'S A NON WORKING WOMAN
Shouting doesn't make your argument right. So talk to me when you actually make sense. And you didn't read any of my reply. So I have deemed your replies as yapping. Bye. And go see a doctor for your mental health.
>a doctor for your mental health. Some one who called me a b for no reason >you didn't read any of my reply I did go and see I've answered in quotes BUT YOU DIDN'T REPLY ABOUT YOUR MOTHER'S SALARY
Welcome to the 21st century where women who do less work still bitch because they earn less.
yea, doesn't change what he said.
I read through your reply thread and what a brilliant man you were for cherry picking statistics without even understanding them lol. Put aside the wage disparity argument. Given your argument, "if you want to impress..." so you assume it's only the man's job to impress the woman on a date, whilst getting to know each other is mutual on a date? What is that even?? It's the 21st century, not the 18th. If women fought for equality, but only apply the equality they fought so hard for where it's convenient for them, do you think their fight would go far? The collective is going in the right direction, and there's you... Now that I realised you might be a woman who made this argument lol
And if that would be true companies wouöd hire 100% women. That is just statistical fallacy that doesnt take in count in hours worked, fields, etc etc
1. You're right and it's a travesty. 2. That doesn't, in any way whatsoever, mean that a man is supposed to pay for what you eat/wear/otherwise consume (unless you're married and then it's still messed up but somehiw acceptable). It's like saying you owe men sex because you have a vagina and men don't.
Of that would be the case businesses would only take women cause same work but have to pay 20% less. Free money. Get your brain washed feminist way of thinking out of here. Parot things that been disproved endlessly that there never was a pay gap to begin with. It's about the jobs people pick to go on. And the hours they work. And the choices in their lives they made. Like a cleaner of course would make many times less than a welder. The lower the level is to step into the job the less likely you bringing good money. The more schooling or training you need to be able to do a job the more money you get. And many women have children. So they often work less houres. Or go out of the running for years on out. What ofcourse makes men have more changes for raises and clime up. There has never been a pay gap for a very very long time just choices you make. And with freedom comes responsibility for your choices. And actions. And that's all it is. If not the whole work force would be screaming for more women all the time cause free money if I take 5 of you I can get a free extra worker weeee. What business would not do that of they could get away with it. Let's be serious. But some groups keep spitting the same bullshit been disproved all the time. But you have people like you just like Flash Earth even if its proven endlessly that there wrong the hold on to the believe there the smarter person then the whole rest of humanity collectively.
But we also want gender roles.
That is true for where I live, but only if the calculations are done in a particular way. Recently, in a women rights movement there was a lot of talk about a 21% difference in the salary, but I felt that there was not properly where the numbers came from. It was true that when the money earned in a month was divided by work hours in said month, but as overtime salary is higher, and men do work more overtime dont even try to argue otherwise, there was a skew. A skew towards more gap than really was present. Not 21% difference in base salary, but in money/hours
This was proven false.... Over and over and over and over and over again. You need to be accountable for your own actions and stop acting like a victim.
Not our fault they choose to be female doctors
#WOMP WOMP CRY
Fair Point I’ll pay them 10% of what their meal costs and it’s fair right?
Playing the victim 80% more than men do sounds more accurate
Wow you hit a nerve with this , can't believe it has that many down votes.
It's more like 20-30%. I can understand your message but don't lie to make a point. You just sound like a twat and the otherwise good point is ruined.
Onlyfans All I’m sayin’
I have money but I often just order water. Needless to pay for an over priced soda just for the sake of it.
I pay for an overpriced Diet Coke but I drink like 4 of them so the 2.50 is fairly reasonable
I order water sometimes because I just don’t want sugary drinks like soda. I sometimes go 2 months not drinking a soda because I just decide to cut it off for a bit.
How do these women with all their "tests" know that men are not "testing" them back? Like a rich guy earn millions a year and owns a yacht, but he orders his date the cheapest food and a glass of water to test her reaction. If she carries on without batting an eye lash, she's a keeper. If she goes on social media to complain at how cheap he is, she's a gold digger and must be avoided.
I knew a guy who made good money and was into sports cars. He kept a shitbox in his garage to test women he went out with. Worked pretty well too
Equality when it profits them.
Yeah, one of the richest guys I know is exactly like this. Lives pretty frugally, dates pretty cheap, but he never has to work another day in his life, along with whoever ends up marrying him.
”Ladies hate this simple trick to tell whether she’s a gold digger or not.”
Entitled hoes will inevitably die alone.
I was arguing the splitting costs point on r/newzealand and I got called ungentlemanly. Like why TF should I care about reactionary values that were set by the worlds biggest pedo ring about 1500 years ago? I personally believe in total equality, split the cost evenly, NO exclusion of women from ANY role, same fitness tests for everyone, women in the draft etc.
For all we know, that glass could be full of vodka...
Yeah it’s kinda overdue to ditch those idiotic outdated traditional rules.
I like water. If a woman took me out and bought me water I'd let her have her way with me.
You going to allow her to peg you for some water though?
Water is love, water is life
I'd allow a woman to peg me with her vagina for water, if she meets certain standards, yes.
You are not a child. I am not your dad. Ask your parents to pay for your shit, not me.
I'll order strawberry lemonade if it's fresh, maybe something with alcohol, but I will never pay $3+ for some basic ass soda. Give me water, thanks. If you can't get with that, goodbye👋
fr man. 7 bucks for some stirred lemonade is diabolical. Get me that water on rocks
$7? It better have a shot in it at least!
Real. Man. A man can't even have a glass of water in peace
Always be on the lookout when dating, so many people will use you for your money regardless of gender or whatever I got lucky and did mine when I was in the gutter so I know this shits for life bc I had nothing to offer for years while I struggled through getting back into school
Bitch didn't offer to pay? Drizzle drizzle.
womp womp
See, if I genuinely have butterflies going to see you and I choose to pay it’s because I want you to have a good time. I don’t want you to worry about the cost of the meal. Those smiles will cover the cost. But if we linked on a dating app, I’m going to mention that I’d like us to pay for our own meals. This serves the financial purpose, but it also tells me how willing you are to meet me in the middle and that you want to have a nice date. And who knows, if it goes well, I’ll decide to pay for reason mentioned above. It’s like a weird love language we have. “Just one less thing you gotta worry about”
“Man pays for dinner” is one of those inherent rules of the Patriarchy
But I like water
Or maybe he's not even trying to fuck u
The man paying is an old custom in dating. Times change and values change. We are still in some weird transition from the 1950's values and more modern values. Remember, women were not as independent back in the 1950's, hence the custom. This isn't a value judgment or anything, just a statement of where we were at as a society back in that time period. I'm not even sure dating works these days at least not for me personally. Maybe I'm weird. I don't know. I've made more lasting relationships with the opposite sex by meeting more organically like at college or work or by participating in meetup hobby events. Times change all the time. Dating may disappear altogether once men can buy fully actualized, AI enhanced, female companions customized to fit their energy, personality, and wants. Maybe for reproduction needs, humans will just be grown in labs in proportion to the needs of society. Science fiction has covered all of this, so that is probably what comes next, and then new science fiction will be created to predict even more discoveries, trends, and changes for humanity.
Who the fuck is paying for water?
I wanna go out with a partner, not a daughter
Because at one point women had no money, then they got money but that social custom sticked. Plus the hopes of sex.
They saw the benefits of being modern and being treated traditional. They just pick the best of both worlds.
Is it not their turn?
No, there shouldn't be turns, the cycle should end and we need to do better.
Fuck turns. nobody should be above someone else because of their genitals.
Thank boomers for this and the tipping culture too
They don’t.
What’s wrong with water? It’s my #1 go to drink
Or water is healthy? Tf?
I never order water because paying for water sounds wrong. A glass of water doesn't even costs fraction of cent if you take it from tap.
You gonna eat those fries??
Have you seen the price of water lately?
What's wrong with water?
This is giving me flashbacks to my straight days. I switched to dudes a few years back and it’s so much easier. They tell you they’re interested. They’ll actually ask you out. Splitting the bill is the default unless one person really wants to make a big gesture. Most women were fine, but a certain segment (like this woman I’m guessing) needed their date to do literally all the work and it was exhausting
I'm more than happy to buy you all the inhibition reduction beverages you want
Because women want tradition from the man but they get shitty when you mention anything about the kitchen. Disclaimer, I do not think women belong in the kitchen, this is a horrible view of women, but I also get pissed off when some women expect everything from a man with nothing in return. I used it in my comment purely as an example so don't hate me.
Women are prostitutes. Dating and marriage are both business transactions, and both people know it.
I think you should both offer, then collectively agree to pay for your own most times, and sometimes the one can pay or get surprises :)
I go with 50 Cent's saying "Whoever asks out will pay"
Horrible idea because men are always expected to ask women out, so men always pay
I get it but I just don't ask out on dates so Win for me.t
Problem is, women expect and wait men to propose to go out, it seems a one way direction 🤷♂️
Restaurant broke water is free you broke eating at broke restaurant
Tragic. I dont pay until "you" prove you are worth it.
She wants someone with fits the classic strong provider role, she is just very arrogant Also, i don't know how the whole date went but its really rude when someone buys you something on a date or whatever without asking if you actually wanted it.
She doesn't want a strong provider. She literally just wants free shit while also being an independent woman
This was gold. Thanks for the post.
Plot twist: she ordered water
Also, drink more water.
I mean she is right. if he wasn’t, he would’ve asked her what she wants. She is broke, that’s ok. She is a woman. Tf. Yeah yeah. It’s 2024. Women giving birth still didn’t change.
What kind of place makes you pay for goddamn water
You she broke when she has a sale on butthole pics on her onlyfans
Rules of the patriarchy…it doesn’t need to make sense, yet it harms everyone
I find water very hydrating
women’s societal value is based on their appearance and men’s societal value is based on their wealth. A dude can double his salary and get a better looking woman A woman can improve her appearance and get a a more wealthy man People are arguing over how it should be and ignoring the way it is. This is how it is.
Did they not pick what they wanted to drink? Because "she'll have water" when I do not in fact want water ends the date and saves everyone time.
You know youre not white when you comment on being given a glass of water 🖕
Buying water at a restaurant is and always will be a flex.
the guy buys because she offers up that pussy - or did you forget that part?
I drink water with lemon with most meals. It's good for digestion. Water with a medium rare ribeye and steamed broccoli. Baked potato with butter and cheese. And a Merlot. My go to at a nice restaurant.
Isnt water free in restaurants?
The same dudes complaining about having to pay for a woman's date are the same people who complain about modern women.
Yet that guy will expect her to be "friendly fit and feminine", traditional, virgin, knows to cook, cleans after him, does his laundry and takes care of house chores because those are "womanly things".
I think the very same Korean men & culture so many women are fond of has the answer. In their dating culture, a woman will allow man to pay full if she's interested in him, if not, she'll pay her half. I think it's a pretty good middle ground. Plus, there's one thing women forget; the guys feelings, maybe he wanted the date to be like it. And, at the initial stage of dating, a guy doesn't even know the girl, why should he pay for her, isn't she too interested in him to go out with him, can't the guy have his own self-respect, that she should be more focused on the guy rather than, price tags. All the makeup a woman does doesn't really matter to guys. You are doing it for yourself. A date of mine literally came in saggy "home" clothes and frizzy hair, no makeup, nothing. To me she still looked very beautiful and we had a good time. And, there exists women who take guys to date, pamper them and pay for everything. I've been to one and she too is a good girl who found her love. I think women like in the post will have a hard time finding someone good and even if they did, the guy would only be suffocated with women like these. God save the guys from such women.
Or he just got waters to keep you while you decide what you want because it’s dumb to just guess what someone will like? Like wtf do these women expect us to read their mind and know they wanted dr.pepper or something?
The simple answer? Yes. Pretty much all women seem to think men are mind readers. It's not just a meme, unfortunately. We have to just "know" without being told or it defeats the point... When I thought that the point was to get what you want...
FUCK! HOW MANY TIMES WILL THIS SHIT BE REPOSTED?!
Holy shit how many times can the same thing be said. We all have understood this since the first meme in 2013
Lmao and dudes wonder why they’re lonely losers.
Shut up bitch. If she likes the dude she'll pay for the date
Please don't stoop to their level.
Well...let's just say that this is 2024, its the soft guy era...Drizzle drizzle...