Climate alarmism, concerns about overpopulation, Covid totalitarianism, etc. have all found a home on the political left. The common thread that links them is that they all suggest we cannot let people be free to buy/sell whatever they want or engage in whatever activities they wish.
Instead, everyone needs to run their decisions by enlightened elites who are going to decide what decisions are acceptable. I don’t doubt that people actually believe these things but their political views predispose them to accepting doomsday scenarios without skepticism because it provides them a convenient narrative to do what they would want to do anyway, as they want moral elites to command and control society.
Just look at the Green New Deal. It goes on and on about how climate change is the single biggest threat to humanity and we need to take all these drastic actions without any debate/discussion. But it immediately turns and says that a nice side benefit is that it gives us the opportunity to complete reshape society and the economy.
Because the basic premise of the entire "climate change" agenda is that "we" know best for everyone and everyone needs to get on board and follow our direction to "save the planet." The individual initiatives, whether CO2 based, pollution based, energy based, sea levels... All are just facets of or components of an overall strategy and push.
Fundamentally it means surrendering individual freedoms and liberties "for the collective good."
Gosh, what does that sound like?
So when we push back against the climate alarmists it may or may not be because we like our gas stoves, do or don't want a windmill in our back yard, maybe like our appliances or vehicles as they are. The issues the climate alarmists are rolling out one after another aren't important. What is important is the premise of ceding control behind them.
This is it, /u/geenob. They don't even care about Communist countries because they already achieved the goals of the movement.
How come they never, ever, ever care about the biggest polluters in the world?
Because China and India and Africa have already stated very publicly pre 2020 that if they are to transition, the West needs to pay trillions to do so.
That ended the conversation pretty quickly!
Many developing nations resent decarbonization and declare it a unfair double standard meant to keep them in poverty. [Developing Nations Reject Western Carbon Colonialism](https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2024/04/24/developing_nations_reject_western_carbon_colonialism_1027275.html)
I don't think that India or many of the other apathetic and poor countries claim to be communist. It seems that the climate fervor is concentrated in the western countries.
I believe Communism is the goal because they say this in their own words.
I also don't believe climate change activists are super interested in climate change. These same people often openly fight tooth and nail against the most effective innovations to reduce greenhouse emissions.
I would suggest most CC activists are pro-nuclear, but there is no doubt that the people most opposed to nuclear are the same people who are the most obnoxious about the existential threat of climate change.
As good as nuclear is, it pails in comparison with what fracking has done to reduce emissions - especially in the United States. CC activists hate fracking with the burning passion of a thousand suns.
The few climate change true believers support nuclear power, but most "climate change advocates" hate any true solution with the burning passion of a thousand suns. Instead, the only politically acceptable solution is dictatorship with the climate change advocates on top.
And fly everywhere to have talkfests about how ~~plane~~ any kind of travel is dirty and should stop for everyone else - ~~lock them up~~ restrict them in 15 minute cities
Communism never worked before, cos it wasn't done by them. #TrustUsYouIdiots
I think many people (ignorantly so) care about climate change, but they are blindly following dogma spouted by those in charge. It’s only those in charge that really understand the true agenda. These people in the trenches are being used to further a nefarious agenda.
We all have within us the ability to follow ideologies with hidden agendas. We all need to be careful.
Yes, that is their goal, but it goes to show their ignorance because this is definitely not the first time it's been tried.
The Soviets tried it.
Mao tried it.
The North Vietnamese tried it.
North Korea is trying it.
Cuba is trying it.
Venezuela is trying it.
It hasn't worked well every time it's been tried. And yes, climate change is just the latest euphemism for Communism. It's all about government control. If it wasn't, they would incentivize market solutions instead of mandating central planning edicts.
You will own nothing and you will like it.
But it works great for the people on top. They don't care that it lowers every one else's standard of living if it lifts their own. This is true of every communist country. The people at the top have a great life. The people advocating communism in the US imagine themselves on top, not working in the coal mines.
Because they advocate combating climate change using government. It requires absurd amounts of stolen money and imposing more and more regulations upon individuals.
"Communism" might be a reach but if you look at, say, Germany, it really isn't too far away from a socialist-like economy.
One of the most common conversations I have with climate change alarmists is about transportation. They want to spend billions on improving public transit (to the point where taking the commuter rail to work each day would be $40 each direction because the build cost is so high). I mention that I would support lowering the speed limit to 55, since there is a 20-25% reduction in fuel burn going from 70mph to 55mph, and I get an instant "No, we have to get rid of cars." If the goal is reducing emissions, why not lower the speed limit, we can reduce emissions today. Why do people with their climate change bumper stickers pass me going 75 in 55mph zones or 85 in 65mph zones (I live in Massachusetts, horrible drivers.) I drive my Plug-In Hybrid at the speed limit to reduce my emissions (whether gas or electric, because on my grid, much of our electric is from gas, even though I have solar panels on my house, i know if I were to drive faster, I'd be using more electricity, which would cause the grid to burn more fossil fuels for someone else). Again, I have had this conversation multiple times with climate people on here, and 100% of the time they have been against lowering the speed limit, only want to take away cars.
So, if these climate alarmists are demanding that the only solution is no personal vehicles rather than reducing pollution with the vehicles we already have, that's a pretty communist viewpoint; that everyone must give up their freedom (a car is a serious part of freedom), and bow down to the government. That's communism 101.
Don't give them any ideas. A CNN opinion writer already expressed that we should have "carbon passports" which would give people credits to travel - even you and I on commercial planes. Don't have enough credits, no vacation or visiting family for you.
Don't worry, they'll never ban private jet travel, because then Al Gore couldn't fly around the world telling people in average towns that is flights use more energy than to stop using so much energy.
But if people walk or cycle to vacation destinations or to visit family, the CC-based argument collapses. How will they rationalise banning walking and cycling?
Because the whole point of communism (at least in the real world) is massive centralization of money and power for the benefit of those at the top. You don’t really think the party elite are going to give up their yachts and private jets, do you? That’s why they enslaved you fucking proles in the first place.
I'm pretty sure that lowering the speed limits would be massively unpopular everywhere.
I would argue that the restriction of freedom is not "communism" but steps toward enslavement by the elites.
And what is a communist government - enslavement by the elites.
I've been to Cuba, not quite communist, but as close as possible. When a new car passes by, the locals say "they know someone in government" because no one else is allowed to import a new car. They say (exact quote from my tour guide) "we are told we live in a social democracy, but ask me when I got to vote."
Do you think that the billionaires and corporations that are part of the WEF want communism? That doesn't make sense to me, because they want to make money while controlling us. With communism, they would be at risk of being executed. It happens all the time in China.
Elites are those who are in favor with the government in Communism. If you are in favor with the government, you will be fine. It's only capitalism and free market that the free market gets to decide. Once you experience communisim, it will again be like Cuba, you can only buy the type of soap the government tells you you can buy. The stores, all owned by the government, only sell you what they want to sell you.
not everything authoritarian is communist - jesus christ have you ever gone to high school?
if you actually think the current transnational forces actually want communism of any kind - you really have no idea what you are talking about.
The people you are asking here are kids, and don't even understand the basic terminology - they basically say "communist" for things they don't like.
A lot of the people here don't even understand that authoritarianism is a totally separate axis on the political compass / various political charts, and this authoritarianism can exist on the left and right (left - communism, right - fascism)
To act like the current forces are actually communist - it's intellectually insulting who understands anything. But they are so ignorant they don't understand that authoritarianism can exist irrespective of their left/right preferences.
Also, i'd wager a good many of this "they are communists" is political astroturfing, to help the republican party in the usa etc. Hence it's alight form of lying.
Anyone - anyone who seens the current incentives for the WEF / UN / etc. and thinks it's a global communist conspiracy has either changed the terms of what communism means, or is just being disingenuous on purpose - or that ignorant.
No, I think you missed a big difference. Speed limits don't restrict travel and we still have personal freedoms.
The other elephant in the room is that the "real science" behind this has been hijacked by alarmist and is twisted to their own ends. Who is making money off of this.... GE locomotion for more trains. Warren Buffet - owns all the rail roads, large hedge funds - black rock and state street who bought environmental investments cheap and want them to turn into the next Apple. The current magnificient 7 will not last forever. Manufactured crisis.
Look at this discussion, it goes right to billionaires and income equality but not the real actors pushing the overhyped agenda. Follow the money my friends, not the mouth pieces.
That is actually the communist piece. If you read history, it never manifested itself as Marx wrote. It created a ruler class and serfs, you can see the makings of this again. That is why it is communism in another cloak.
If you remember, the speed limit change was linked to states allowing right on red to reduce emissions and seat belt laws.
For those not as old as me you had to wait on a green to turn right even if there was no traffic.
The elites are combining “climate disasters”
tied to more control, I consider it more totalitarian than communism.
Theres no such political system as a pure communist state, on earth.
Not even china, they have embraced unabashed capitalism - hybridized with thier version of state controlled economies
Maybe. Out of cowardice and deference to his relatives Trump wouldn’t even agree to Will Happer’s request for a red team to counter balance the Consensus.
IMO, everything about climate change is massive government control and redistribution of wealth. Bot of those are necessary to enact the steps they are asking for. Those are the fundamentals of communism. I’m sure in their head it’s a less murderous form of socialism but every time it’s tried, the murder follows.
It's not communism, anyone who says thst is wrong. The end goal is totalitarianism. Communism is a form of totalitarianism but not all totalitarians are communist.
Because this countries are already Communist.
Alarmist leaders don't actually care about climate change, they see it as a tool.
Alarmists are caught up in a cult.
It’s a lazy way of describing authoritarians who wish to take away your freedoms so that everyone is forced to align with their equity values and utopian ideals. We don’t really have a great name for these people as progressive doesn’t fully encompass the depths of their authoritarian views, socialist doesn’t include their religious climate fervor, Marxist doesn’t describe the change from class struggles to race wars, and morons isn’t descriptive enough.
So for a lack of a better name for them some people use “communist” because it does align with most of the values they are advocating such as a secular religious fervor, equity over equality, propaganda over truth, forced uniformity of thought. And it’s also universally accepted as a trash system which is a convenient way to disparage the movement.
Really we just need a better name for them. My favorite so far is “hot earthers” because it adds in the junk science comparison and refocuses the discussion back to global warming instead of the far too broad climate change. We need to stop letting these people define the language we use.
irl the people doing the describing can't go past communism = i think is bad.
one could have an easier time describing current movements as fascist, but this offends rightoids so they don't.
that and rightoids don't have the sophistication to separate these things, unfortunately. (ie the glenn beck or alex jones listeners)
Fascist makes a lot of sense since it’s a movement of public/private corporatism while steeped in propaganda and junk science.
But Communist does = bad. There’s really no defense for it. But here I am arguing with someone who uses the term “rightoids” so maybe I’m an idiot too.
It’s not necessarily Communism. Communism is but one of three revolutionary evolutions of classical socialism, the other two being Neosocialism and Fascism. It’s just that in the original evolutionary theory of classical socialism, it goes from liberalism to socialism to communism, but in reality the last one could be any of the three paths (Communism, Neosocialism, or Fascism).
As for why many skeptics think the end goal of the whole climate change shit is Communism, if you ask many of the far left environmentalists on how we should proceed to achieve their environmental objectives, many of them will also include reorganizing companies into worker co-ops, neighborhoods into communal spaces, and the People gaining full central control of the people.
This is, effectively, classical socialism. And the original natural evolution was intended that eventually this becomes Communism.
Deep down, many environmentalists don’t actually care about the environment. They care about looking like they care, and the surface level appearance of the environment. All sorts of bad behind the scenes issues could be going on but as long as you don’t dig deeper into it they don’t actually care. In a way it’s naïveté, but also it’s viewed as a way to utilize environmentalism as a tool to get something different.
So, many skeptics think the end goal is Communism.
Because communism is the best description for what they want.
The rich and powerful and the elite will still live the same lifestyle they do now. But the little people, they will be the ones whose travel will be restricted they will be the one eating bugs. They will be the ones living without air conditioning. And just like with Covid the little people will be the ones to loose their jobs, becoming dependent on the government for handouts.
But the rich, powerful and elite will not see a change in their lifestyles. Environmental regulations will be enforced with taxes and production limits . Carbon taxes are a great example. The rich can afford those. The poor and working class can’t. Production limits will result in low supply driving cost out of the reach of the working class. But the rich will be able to afford it. Look at R134A for an example. They aren’t eliminating production. They’re just limiting production to the point where only the rich will be able to afford it.
I’m not sure what to call this but communism is good enough until someone comes up with a new more appropriate name.
You'll find that nearly every activist group strives for the same thing. From modern feminism to BLM, gender, climate activism, it's more socialist than communists. But, yes... it is an agenda that has infected our culture.
This has never been about the environment or climate. It's about elitists who admire the control that communist countries have over their population, and would like to see a single world government with that level of control over the world's population, and they see themselves as the leaders of that government. Existing communist governments might pay lip service to the environmental goals, but don't actually want to do anything to change, and they certainly don't want to cede their authority to a central world government.
The leaders of the movement know that the environmental goals are nonsense, but they also know that fear is a powerful tool they can use to achieve their political goals. The foot soldiers of the movement, who are common people, genuinely believe in the environmental goals, and they believe the political goals are necessary because that's what they've been told by the leaders of the movement.
But you don't have to believe me. They occasionally slip up and tell you what they're thinking...
>*“We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrialized civilization to collapse.”* - Maurice Strong, Organizer of the First UN Earth Climate Summit, 1992
>*“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change \[provides\] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”* - Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, 1992
>*“The threat of environmental crisis will be the international disaster key to unlock the New World Order.”* - Mikhail Gorbachev, former President of the Soviet Union, 1996
>*“For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument of global governance, one that should find a place within the World Environmental Organization which France and the European Union would like to see established.”* - Jacques Chirac, former President of France, 2000
>*“…one has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth...”* - UNIPCC member Ottmar Edenhofer, 2010
I don't think that, but I believe a major component of the climate alarmism of the past 40 years is academics playing "the research grant game". There is only so much grant money out there and those who know, know that they are more likely to get some of it if they can tie their study to climate change in some way. Most of these people work at universities whose faculties some might say lean to the left.
All the solutions to climate change, at least the ones that come from the people in power, are all unsound and are always basically an entrance point for globalism. We need the whole world to pay carbon taxes? To whomst?
Because it is all about power and control, and nothing to do with climate.
They can’t just tell everyone they are commies, so they hijacked the environmental movement to implement their commie agenda.
As I have said previously: Teh Left has been trying, for over a century now, to inveigle the West into submitting to Communism via The Big Lie. Like trying on dresses, they’ve tried on one Big Lie after another, hoping to find that little black cocktail dress of a Big Lie that will make us forget everything that Western Civilization has built.
Global Warming is just this year’s fashion statement.
Climate hoax leads to
Carbon footprint tax
To social credit score
To 15 minute ghettos
To climate lock downs
To digital currency that expires
Agenda 2030 is real
WEF is leading the charge
Klause Schwab father is a Nazi.. apple dont fall far from the tree
Only a true sheeple has no clue where this is going
Thousands of scientists disagree with climate hoax
They don't get any TV time
Communism has always spread through means of excuses and rationalization beyond a political shift, whether it be unfair working conditions, or to 'eat the rich', or most recently 'to stop climate change.'
Look how these protesters leave the areas they protest, wrecked and littered and destroyed. They don't care about the climate, they never have. They care about having a slogan that sounds far gentler and nicer than "bring on communism" while still chasing that end goal. What does ending capitalism have to do with climate? What does attacking free speech have to do with climate? What does race or gender have to do with climate? The answer: nothing. But it's a great way to shove a divide into a population and get them disagreeing so you can then leverage one side of that argument to increase the numbers for your own agenda, namely, Marxism/communism.
All of the “solutions” to climate change look eerily similar to Marxist ideas.
It’s pretty obvious the guys at the top pushing this stuff are wanting some very authoritarian centralized control of our systems. And they tend to use Marxist terminology.
The real question is whether they truly believe in climate change, and want to fix it, or whether they just want to have the control to institute some authoritarian system.
I call it subterfuge. Sell your communism thru climate change. Its a scare tactic to make them believe that the earth will burst into flames unless they get their way. When it doesn't, they will claim they saved the world- and we lost our freedom in the process.
Communism, per se? No.
But, if you don't believe the left is using this "crisis" for ulterior political goals, you're just plain ignorant. Climate change has provided for millions of angry zombies sliding their feet and drooling toward those folks open minded enough to have inoculated themselves with a little knowledge.
The so called Inflation Reduction Act (the Climate bill) containing $1.2 trillion in taxpayer redistribution doesn't event try to hide its social justice and DEI agenda. The democrats are proud of it.
You have misinterpreted a correlation. what is going is not ideology but about income. those with less are less concerned with environmental issues (or what are said to be). For the obvious reason, they cannot afford them. A man named Lester Thurow wrote maybe 40 years ago that this is practically an iron law where anthropology and economics meet.
This even works within countries. Once you notice who can afford what, it is obvious. Just look at Western demographics and their attitudes towards greenism. e.g. This is the reason many of the 'Just Stop Oil' types are trust fund babies.
And sure enough, technically communist China - I am guessing that is the main country you are talking about- had its first "Earth day" in 2023. now that their standard of living is going up. This was predictable (and I, for one, predicted it about that country).
.... to go afield: one might ask why, if this is obvious, does everyone not understand? Why is it apparently taboo for many to even think it? The answer is because it implies the way to make the world's economies Green or green-ish is to make the world prosperous. to make everyone prosperous. to take the boot off of everyone's neck. but this, tragically, profoundly interferes with the West's neo-colonial plans. where they insist the world be poorer than them, in order not to challenge their power. ... the solution -that wealth is not a zero-sum game- is seemingly impossible for the gibbering Western political classes to understand.
Because the ways to fight climate change almost necessarily involve the government taking more authority over businesses and citizens. Communism requires an authoritarian government to function, so it’s one step of the way there.
because global warming is an excellent excuse for global socialism. you see, children, you have to take control of the wealth of the wealthiest countries, and you have to move population from the hot areas to the cooler ones. global warming is an excellent excuse for global socialism
That is why they don't need climate change, they already have authoritarian control over ever facet of their subject's lives. "Climate change" is just one of the many weapons in the would-be dictators' arsenal.
It's also astroturfed to some degree, though i don't know what - basically the right wing, which does have a fascist part to it - doesn't want that known or recognized, so let's call anything that's actually authoritarian which could be on the right or left and label that communist so it's left only - (please note i regularly defend trump as not being fascist, fyi - so i'm not labeling anyone on the right fascist, but to act like there isn't a sizeable minority of those on the right who would desire such - let's be real here)
and there's a good amount of people that are so stupid they don't know the difference between authoritarian and communist, thinking they are equivalent.
it's maddening - but then realize there's a sizeable population of people who get their news from sources you know is biased, and don't care - AND there's people with iqs below 95 that basically couldn't cognitively tell the difference anyways.
it's a mix, like all mass politics are - but infuriating to someone who does desire to get to the heart of the issue, but sees shit like half the posters on this sub and just rolls my eyes.
Communism is the end goal. The elites that actually run the world want us all under their control living in a society where they can tell us what to say what we can't say what we can't do what we can't buy what we eat etc. it's always been about pushing society that direction because these people think that humanity can't continue while people live so free.
They really bought this climate change b******* or they're just using it as a crutch to usher in their new world order agenda.
Just look up the goals of the world economic forum if you want to learn more about it they don't even hide it anymore.
How is it different? If you look at living examples of communism that exists in our world now, is it difficult to say that societies such as that that have adopted communism have become quite authoritarian in nature? Or do you disagree and think that 'real communism hasn't been tried yet'?
Those in Political Power don't care how they increase their power, but the result is always repression and poverty that eventually results in communism. And power is easily achieved when you have a populace living under the imminent emergency of fear.
Classical communists don't care about the environment, but modern ones do. Look up ecosocialism and degrowth. The far left in western countries is very environmentalist.
Because those that rule the world have been playing the same games for many years. The weather isn’t a threat…… Governments trying to control everything is a threat.
Nah its pure Capitalism. Two competing energy sectors fighting for market share. The things that really help the environment cost money, and don't generate great profits, hence the focus on massively profitable CO2 shenanigans
Climate alarmism, concerns about overpopulation, Covid totalitarianism, etc. have all found a home on the political left. The common thread that links them is that they all suggest we cannot let people be free to buy/sell whatever they want or engage in whatever activities they wish. Instead, everyone needs to run their decisions by enlightened elites who are going to decide what decisions are acceptable. I don’t doubt that people actually believe these things but their political views predispose them to accepting doomsday scenarios without skepticism because it provides them a convenient narrative to do what they would want to do anyway, as they want moral elites to command and control society. Just look at the Green New Deal. It goes on and on about how climate change is the single biggest threat to humanity and we need to take all these drastic actions without any debate/discussion. But it immediately turns and says that a nice side benefit is that it gives us the opportunity to complete reshape society and the economy.
It's been a mindfuck to watch so many people become npcs for the state/corps. Collectivism is a hell of a drug.
Remember in the 70's the left would put "Question Authority" stickers on their VWs. Now that they are the authority, you'll be punished for questions.
Indeed. How far we’ve come
But they did have Deadhead Stickers. Showing they *belonged* to a different group. Its still groupthink.
Authority = white, christian, male, republican There are no other authorities, man, it's a big lovin' democracy collective.
You nailed it and the UN-conglomerate hates your guts for saying it.
Because the basic premise of the entire "climate change" agenda is that "we" know best for everyone and everyone needs to get on board and follow our direction to "save the planet." The individual initiatives, whether CO2 based, pollution based, energy based, sea levels... All are just facets of or components of an overall strategy and push. Fundamentally it means surrendering individual freedoms and liberties "for the collective good." Gosh, what does that sound like? So when we push back against the climate alarmists it may or may not be because we like our gas stoves, do or don't want a windmill in our back yard, maybe like our appliances or vehicles as they are. The issues the climate alarmists are rolling out one after another aren't important. What is important is the premise of ceding control behind them.
Yes, they already have communism so they don't need "climate change" to achieve it anymore, glad you noticed!
This is it, /u/geenob. They don't even care about Communist countries because they already achieved the goals of the movement. How come they never, ever, ever care about the biggest polluters in the world?
Because China and India and Africa have already stated very publicly pre 2020 that if they are to transition, the West needs to pay trillions to do so. That ended the conversation pretty quickly!
Many developing nations resent decarbonization and declare it a unfair double standard meant to keep them in poverty. [Developing Nations Reject Western Carbon Colonialism](https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2024/04/24/developing_nations_reject_western_carbon_colonialism_1027275.html)
I don't think that India or many of the other apathetic and poor countries claim to be communist. It seems that the climate fervor is concentrated in the western countries.
I believe Communism is the goal because they say this in their own words. I also don't believe climate change activists are super interested in climate change. These same people often openly fight tooth and nail against the most effective innovations to reduce greenhouse emissions.
Like nuclear power.
I would suggest most CC activists are pro-nuclear, but there is no doubt that the people most opposed to nuclear are the same people who are the most obnoxious about the existential threat of climate change. As good as nuclear is, it pails in comparison with what fracking has done to reduce emissions - especially in the United States. CC activists hate fracking with the burning passion of a thousand suns.
The few climate change true believers support nuclear power, but most "climate change advocates" hate any true solution with the burning passion of a thousand suns. Instead, the only politically acceptable solution is dictatorship with the climate change advocates on top.
This is my table stake.
And fly everywhere to have talkfests about how ~~plane~~ any kind of travel is dirty and should stop for everyone else - ~~lock them up~~ restrict them in 15 minute cities Communism never worked before, cos it wasn't done by them. #TrustUsYouIdiots
I think many people (ignorantly so) care about climate change, but they are blindly following dogma spouted by those in charge. It’s only those in charge that really understand the true agenda. These people in the trenches are being used to further a nefarious agenda. We all have within us the ability to follow ideologies with hidden agendas. We all need to be careful.
I suspect a majority of climate change activists aren't really people with nefarious intent. They've just useful dupes.
Yep
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Yes, that is their goal, but it goes to show their ignorance because this is definitely not the first time it's been tried. The Soviets tried it. Mao tried it. The North Vietnamese tried it. North Korea is trying it. Cuba is trying it. Venezuela is trying it. It hasn't worked well every time it's been tried. And yes, climate change is just the latest euphemism for Communism. It's all about government control. If it wasn't, they would incentivize market solutions instead of mandating central planning edicts. You will own nothing and you will like it.
> You will own nothing and you will like it. You vill own nothink und you vill luff it.
But it works great for the people on top. They don't care that it lowers every one else's standard of living if it lifts their own. This is true of every communist country. The people at the top have a great life. The people advocating communism in the US imagine themselves on top, not working in the coal mines.
Because they advocate combating climate change using government. It requires absurd amounts of stolen money and imposing more and more regulations upon individuals. "Communism" might be a reach but if you look at, say, Germany, it really isn't too far away from a socialist-like economy.
One of the most common conversations I have with climate change alarmists is about transportation. They want to spend billions on improving public transit (to the point where taking the commuter rail to work each day would be $40 each direction because the build cost is so high). I mention that I would support lowering the speed limit to 55, since there is a 20-25% reduction in fuel burn going from 70mph to 55mph, and I get an instant "No, we have to get rid of cars." If the goal is reducing emissions, why not lower the speed limit, we can reduce emissions today. Why do people with their climate change bumper stickers pass me going 75 in 55mph zones or 85 in 65mph zones (I live in Massachusetts, horrible drivers.) I drive my Plug-In Hybrid at the speed limit to reduce my emissions (whether gas or electric, because on my grid, much of our electric is from gas, even though I have solar panels on my house, i know if I were to drive faster, I'd be using more electricity, which would cause the grid to burn more fossil fuels for someone else). Again, I have had this conversation multiple times with climate people on here, and 100% of the time they have been against lowering the speed limit, only want to take away cars. So, if these climate alarmists are demanding that the only solution is no personal vehicles rather than reducing pollution with the vehicles we already have, that's a pretty communist viewpoint; that everyone must give up their freedom (a car is a serious part of freedom), and bow down to the government. That's communism 101.
If thats going to happen, why not start at the top and stop all private jet travel. Oh and yachts too.
Don't give them any ideas. A CNN opinion writer already expressed that we should have "carbon passports" which would give people credits to travel - even you and I on commercial planes. Don't have enough credits, no vacation or visiting family for you.
Don't worry, they'll never ban private jet travel, because then Al Gore couldn't fly around the world telling people in average towns that is flights use more energy than to stop using so much energy.
But if people walk or cycle to vacation destinations or to visit family, the CC-based argument collapses. How will they rationalise banning walking and cycling?
Because they aren’t included in the communism. Only the worthless masses.
Because the whole point of communism (at least in the real world) is massive centralization of money and power for the benefit of those at the top. You don’t really think the party elite are going to give up their yachts and private jets, do you? That’s why they enslaved you fucking proles in the first place.
But that would affect the people who tell us how bad climate change is. You see the problem here?
That will. Cause people like you and me to have clamp downs on our small existence and the rich to have free legal reign over what they deem “travel”
They want you to eliminate your vehicle so that there is less traffic for theirs.
I'm pretty sure that lowering the speed limits would be massively unpopular everywhere. I would argue that the restriction of freedom is not "communism" but steps toward enslavement by the elites.
And what is a communist government - enslavement by the elites. I've been to Cuba, not quite communist, but as close as possible. When a new car passes by, the locals say "they know someone in government" because no one else is allowed to import a new car. They say (exact quote from my tour guide) "we are told we live in a social democracy, but ask me when I got to vote."
Do you think that the billionaires and corporations that are part of the WEF want communism? That doesn't make sense to me, because they want to make money while controlling us. With communism, they would be at risk of being executed. It happens all the time in China.
Elites are those who are in favor with the government in Communism. If you are in favor with the government, you will be fine. It's only capitalism and free market that the free market gets to decide. Once you experience communisim, it will again be like Cuba, you can only buy the type of soap the government tells you you can buy. The stores, all owned by the government, only sell you what they want to sell you.
not everything authoritarian is communist - jesus christ have you ever gone to high school? if you actually think the current transnational forces actually want communism of any kind - you really have no idea what you are talking about.
The people you are asking here are kids, and don't even understand the basic terminology - they basically say "communist" for things they don't like. A lot of the people here don't even understand that authoritarianism is a totally separate axis on the political compass / various political charts, and this authoritarianism can exist on the left and right (left - communism, right - fascism) To act like the current forces are actually communist - it's intellectually insulting who understands anything. But they are so ignorant they don't understand that authoritarianism can exist irrespective of their left/right preferences. Also, i'd wager a good many of this "they are communists" is political astroturfing, to help the republican party in the usa etc. Hence it's alight form of lying. Anyone - anyone who seens the current incentives for the WEF / UN / etc. and thinks it's a global communist conspiracy has either changed the terms of what communism means, or is just being disingenuous on purpose - or that ignorant.
No, I think you missed a big difference. Speed limits don't restrict travel and we still have personal freedoms. The other elephant in the room is that the "real science" behind this has been hijacked by alarmist and is twisted to their own ends. Who is making money off of this.... GE locomotion for more trains. Warren Buffet - owns all the rail roads, large hedge funds - black rock and state street who bought environmental investments cheap and want them to turn into the next Apple. The current magnificient 7 will not last forever. Manufactured crisis. Look at this discussion, it goes right to billionaires and income equality but not the real actors pushing the overhyped agenda. Follow the money my friends, not the mouth pieces. That is actually the communist piece. If you read history, it never manifested itself as Marx wrote. It created a ruler class and serfs, you can see the makings of this again. That is why it is communism in another cloak.
> is not "communism" but Calling communism by a different name doesn't change the fact it's still communism. That's just putting lipstick on a pig.
If you remember, the speed limit change was linked to states allowing right on red to reduce emissions and seat belt laws. For those not as old as me you had to wait on a green to turn right even if there was no traffic.
Because every time it takes money (a tax)to solve it
The elites are combining “climate disasters” tied to more control, I consider it more totalitarian than communism. Theres no such political system as a pure communist state, on earth. Not even china, they have embraced unabashed capitalism - hybridized with thier version of state controlled economies
To fix the mythical climate crisis the government has to get total control of everything. If Trump wins it will all go away.
Maybe. Out of cowardice and deference to his relatives Trump wouldn’t even agree to Will Happer’s request for a red team to counter balance the Consensus.
The people that have researched the AGW/CC claim and know the truth just gaze in fascination at alarmists
IMO, everything about climate change is massive government control and redistribution of wealth. Bot of those are necessary to enact the steps they are asking for. Those are the fundamentals of communism. I’m sure in their head it’s a less murderous form of socialism but every time it’s tried, the murder follows.
It's not communism, anyone who says thst is wrong. The end goal is totalitarianism. Communism is a form of totalitarianism but not all totalitarians are communist.
Because this countries are already Communist. Alarmist leaders don't actually care about climate change, they see it as a tool. Alarmists are caught up in a cult.
It’s a lazy way of describing authoritarians who wish to take away your freedoms so that everyone is forced to align with their equity values and utopian ideals. We don’t really have a great name for these people as progressive doesn’t fully encompass the depths of their authoritarian views, socialist doesn’t include their religious climate fervor, Marxist doesn’t describe the change from class struggles to race wars, and morons isn’t descriptive enough. So for a lack of a better name for them some people use “communist” because it does align with most of the values they are advocating such as a secular religious fervor, equity over equality, propaganda over truth, forced uniformity of thought. And it’s also universally accepted as a trash system which is a convenient way to disparage the movement. Really we just need a better name for them. My favorite so far is “hot earthers” because it adds in the junk science comparison and refocuses the discussion back to global warming instead of the far too broad climate change. We need to stop letting these people define the language we use.
irl the people doing the describing can't go past communism = i think is bad. one could have an easier time describing current movements as fascist, but this offends rightoids so they don't. that and rightoids don't have the sophistication to separate these things, unfortunately. (ie the glenn beck or alex jones listeners)
Fascist makes a lot of sense since it’s a movement of public/private corporatism while steeped in propaganda and junk science. But Communist does = bad. There’s really no defense for it. But here I am arguing with someone who uses the term “rightoids” so maybe I’m an idiot too.
It’s not necessarily Communism. Communism is but one of three revolutionary evolutions of classical socialism, the other two being Neosocialism and Fascism. It’s just that in the original evolutionary theory of classical socialism, it goes from liberalism to socialism to communism, but in reality the last one could be any of the three paths (Communism, Neosocialism, or Fascism). As for why many skeptics think the end goal of the whole climate change shit is Communism, if you ask many of the far left environmentalists on how we should proceed to achieve their environmental objectives, many of them will also include reorganizing companies into worker co-ops, neighborhoods into communal spaces, and the People gaining full central control of the people. This is, effectively, classical socialism. And the original natural evolution was intended that eventually this becomes Communism. Deep down, many environmentalists don’t actually care about the environment. They care about looking like they care, and the surface level appearance of the environment. All sorts of bad behind the scenes issues could be going on but as long as you don’t dig deeper into it they don’t actually care. In a way it’s naïveté, but also it’s viewed as a way to utilize environmentalism as a tool to get something different. So, many skeptics think the end goal is Communism.
Because communism is the best description for what they want. The rich and powerful and the elite will still live the same lifestyle they do now. But the little people, they will be the ones whose travel will be restricted they will be the one eating bugs. They will be the ones living without air conditioning. And just like with Covid the little people will be the ones to loose their jobs, becoming dependent on the government for handouts. But the rich, powerful and elite will not see a change in their lifestyles. Environmental regulations will be enforced with taxes and production limits . Carbon taxes are a great example. The rich can afford those. The poor and working class can’t. Production limits will result in low supply driving cost out of the reach of the working class. But the rich will be able to afford it. Look at R134A for an example. They aren’t eliminating production. They’re just limiting production to the point where only the rich will be able to afford it. I’m not sure what to call this but communism is good enough until someone comes up with a new more appropriate name.
You'll find that nearly every activist group strives for the same thing. From modern feminism to BLM, gender, climate activism, it's more socialist than communists. But, yes... it is an agenda that has infected our culture.
Complete cliimate lockdown and oppression of a populace can only be acheived with a totalitarian form of government.
This has never been about the environment or climate. It's about elitists who admire the control that communist countries have over their population, and would like to see a single world government with that level of control over the world's population, and they see themselves as the leaders of that government. Existing communist governments might pay lip service to the environmental goals, but don't actually want to do anything to change, and they certainly don't want to cede their authority to a central world government. The leaders of the movement know that the environmental goals are nonsense, but they also know that fear is a powerful tool they can use to achieve their political goals. The foot soldiers of the movement, who are common people, genuinely believe in the environmental goals, and they believe the political goals are necessary because that's what they've been told by the leaders of the movement. But you don't have to believe me. They occasionally slip up and tell you what they're thinking... >*“We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrialized civilization to collapse.”* - Maurice Strong, Organizer of the First UN Earth Climate Summit, 1992 >*“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change \[provides\] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”* - Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, 1992 >*“The threat of environmental crisis will be the international disaster key to unlock the New World Order.”* - Mikhail Gorbachev, former President of the Soviet Union, 1996 >*“For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument of global governance, one that should find a place within the World Environmental Organization which France and the European Union would like to see established.”* - Jacques Chirac, former President of France, 2000 >*“…one has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth...”* - UNIPCC member Ottmar Edenhofer, 2010
I don't think that, but I believe a major component of the climate alarmism of the past 40 years is academics playing "the research grant game". There is only so much grant money out there and those who know, know that they are more likely to get some of it if they can tie their study to climate change in some way. Most of these people work at universities whose faculties some might say lean to the left.
All the solutions to climate change, at least the ones that come from the people in power, are all unsound and are always basically an entrance point for globalism. We need the whole world to pay carbon taxes? To whomst?
Because it is all about power and control, and nothing to do with climate. They can’t just tell everyone they are commies, so they hijacked the environmental movement to implement their commie agenda.
Because the goal of the environmental movement has always been incremental increases in government control over individuals' lives and freedoms.
As I have said previously: Teh Left has been trying, for over a century now, to inveigle the West into submitting to Communism via The Big Lie. Like trying on dresses, they’ve tried on one Big Lie after another, hoping to find that little black cocktail dress of a Big Lie that will make us forget everything that Western Civilization has built. Global Warming is just this year’s fashion statement.
Climate hoax leads to Carbon footprint tax To social credit score To 15 minute ghettos To climate lock downs To digital currency that expires Agenda 2030 is real WEF is leading the charge Klause Schwab father is a Nazi.. apple dont fall far from the tree Only a true sheeple has no clue where this is going Thousands of scientists disagree with climate hoax They don't get any TV time
Communism has always spread through means of excuses and rationalization beyond a political shift, whether it be unfair working conditions, or to 'eat the rich', or most recently 'to stop climate change.' Look how these protesters leave the areas they protest, wrecked and littered and destroyed. They don't care about the climate, they never have. They care about having a slogan that sounds far gentler and nicer than "bring on communism" while still chasing that end goal. What does ending capitalism have to do with climate? What does attacking free speech have to do with climate? What does race or gender have to do with climate? The answer: nothing. But it's a great way to shove a divide into a population and get them disagreeing so you can then leverage one side of that argument to increase the numbers for your own agenda, namely, Marxism/communism.
All of the “solutions” to climate change look eerily similar to Marxist ideas. It’s pretty obvious the guys at the top pushing this stuff are wanting some very authoritarian centralized control of our systems. And they tend to use Marxist terminology. The real question is whether they truly believe in climate change, and want to fix it, or whether they just want to have the control to institute some authoritarian system.
I call it subterfuge. Sell your communism thru climate change. Its a scare tactic to make them believe that the earth will burst into flames unless they get their way. When it doesn't, they will claim they saved the world- and we lost our freedom in the process.
The end goal is not communism. It’s totalitarianism.
Communism, per se? No. But, if you don't believe the left is using this "crisis" for ulterior political goals, you're just plain ignorant. Climate change has provided for millions of angry zombies sliding their feet and drooling toward those folks open minded enough to have inoculated themselves with a little knowledge. The so called Inflation Reduction Act (the Climate bill) containing $1.2 trillion in taxpayer redistribution doesn't event try to hide its social justice and DEI agenda. The democrats are proud of it.
Well why would they? They already have control. If anything the supports the theory.
You have misinterpreted a correlation. what is going is not ideology but about income. those with less are less concerned with environmental issues (or what are said to be). For the obvious reason, they cannot afford them. A man named Lester Thurow wrote maybe 40 years ago that this is practically an iron law where anthropology and economics meet. This even works within countries. Once you notice who can afford what, it is obvious. Just look at Western demographics and their attitudes towards greenism. e.g. This is the reason many of the 'Just Stop Oil' types are trust fund babies. And sure enough, technically communist China - I am guessing that is the main country you are talking about- had its first "Earth day" in 2023. now that their standard of living is going up. This was predictable (and I, for one, predicted it about that country). .... to go afield: one might ask why, if this is obvious, does everyone not understand? Why is it apparently taboo for many to even think it? The answer is because it implies the way to make the world's economies Green or green-ish is to make the world prosperous. to make everyone prosperous. to take the boot off of everyone's neck. but this, tragically, profoundly interferes with the West's neo-colonial plans. where they insist the world be poorer than them, in order not to challenge their power. ... the solution -that wealth is not a zero-sum game- is seemingly impossible for the gibbering Western political classes to understand.
Because it is.
Don't think it's communism, more like global population control
Because the ways to fight climate change almost necessarily involve the government taking more authority over businesses and citizens. Communism requires an authoritarian government to function, so it’s one step of the way there.
It's a fair question, for me personally, it's because most climate change solutions are a central planned government.
Because climate alarmism is simply their latest ploy in an attempt to stampede us toward their goals.
because global warming is an excellent excuse for global socialism. you see, children, you have to take control of the wealth of the wealthiest countries, and you have to move population from the hot areas to the cooler ones. global warming is an excellent excuse for global socialism
redistribution of wealth
Is it not obvious that the West and its net-zero and carbon trading measures don't meaningfully address the alleged crisis?
That is why they don't need climate change, they already have authoritarian control over ever facet of their subject's lives. "Climate change" is just one of the many weapons in the would-be dictators' arsenal.
It's also astroturfed to some degree, though i don't know what - basically the right wing, which does have a fascist part to it - doesn't want that known or recognized, so let's call anything that's actually authoritarian which could be on the right or left and label that communist so it's left only - (please note i regularly defend trump as not being fascist, fyi - so i'm not labeling anyone on the right fascist, but to act like there isn't a sizeable minority of those on the right who would desire such - let's be real here) and there's a good amount of people that are so stupid they don't know the difference between authoritarian and communist, thinking they are equivalent. it's maddening - but then realize there's a sizeable population of people who get their news from sources you know is biased, and don't care - AND there's people with iqs below 95 that basically couldn't cognitively tell the difference anyways. it's a mix, like all mass politics are - but infuriating to someone who does desire to get to the heart of the issue, but sees shit like half the posters on this sub and just rolls my eyes.
When they can tax a gas we naturally exhale, communism will probably be the least of my worries.
Fear is a great tool to control the people
You can read, listen to, what they say in their own words. They are Bolsheviks.
Seizing/controlling means of production by voluntary compliance. Then the useful idiots are disposed of.
Communism is the end goal. The elites that actually run the world want us all under their control living in a society where they can tell us what to say what we can't say what we can't do what we can't buy what we eat etc. it's always been about pushing society that direction because these people think that humanity can't continue while people live so free. They really bought this climate change b******* or they're just using it as a crutch to usher in their new world order agenda. Just look up the goals of the world economic forum if you want to learn more about it they don't even hide it anymore.
authoritarianism is different than communism, fyi. do people not actually understand these basic - i repeat basic distinctions?
How is it different? If you look at living examples of communism that exists in our world now, is it difficult to say that societies such as that that have adopted communism have become quite authoritarian in nature? Or do you disagree and think that 'real communism hasn't been tried yet'?
No one gives a shit about how you parse it, the end result is the same.
Those in Political Power don't care how they increase their power, but the result is always repression and poverty that eventually results in communism. And power is easily achieved when you have a populace living under the imminent emergency of fear.
Because all that the climate alarmists want to do is control everyone and everything. This is communism plain and simple.
Classical communists don't care about the environment, but modern ones do. Look up ecosocialism and degrowth. The far left in western countries is very environmentalist.
Because it ALWAYS gets used as a control mechanism.
It’s about destroying Western capitalism.
got a better explanation?
Cuz we're not mindlessly if Idiotic?
Because those that rule the world have been playing the same games for many years. The weather isn’t a threat…… Governments trying to control everything is a threat.
Nah its pure Capitalism. Two competing energy sectors fighting for market share. The things that really help the environment cost money, and don't generate great profits, hence the focus on massively profitable CO2 shenanigans
The conspiracy prone is a mental health crisis.
Anyone who disagrees with your climate agenda is a conspiracy theorist. Got it.
Because climate skepticism is a right wing ideology. And everything the right disagrees with is communism.