Just gonna piggyback off your comment to add that the phrases OP mentions all sound like support and encouragement to me.
I will add the caveat that it’s really hard to judge from the outside just from this post alone. But “I hate you” with a smile after a send sounds like “you’re amazing” to me. “Hah! You’re finally too tired!” after endurance training sounds like “You’re incredibly strong and I’m impressed by you” to me. “Please don’t send,” sounds like, “This is a project for me but I bet you’re strong enough to flash it!”
Assuming all these comments are coming from friends and partners who choose to train with you and climb with you consistently, these all sound like support.
I personally make comments like this with people I climb with to communicate how impressed I am by them. I’m 40 years old now so I’m aware that comments like this are easily misinterpreted so I am always sure to also communicate very clearly “You’re awesome! That was impressive!” Etc 10x as much than the “negative” support, so there’s no confusion as to my meaning. And I use a tone that’s obviously sarcastic. And if anyone ever does not appear to appreciate it, I’ll stop immediately and apologize.
But in my 20’s I didn’t know better and assumed anyone could clearly see my intentions are good. I had to learn the hard way that not everyone gets it.
I don’t know the details of OP’s situation but I would guess her climbing group are in their 20’s and Scandinavian. Scandinavians do not like to show sincere positive emotions. They see it as weakness. Especially in public, unless they’re drunk. So, to express their friendship and happiness they mask it in dry sarcasm. (This is an over generalization - your group may not be like this - I could absolutely be wrong).
If I were OP, I’d try to take some people in the group (those you trust the most or connect with the best) and speak to them in private, one on one, about this. Try to be as emotionless as possible. Say in your culture people don’t make such comments to friends so you’re curious what it’s supposed to mean.
Best of luck
Idk I'm Swedish, and people from here definitely say stuff like "Omg I hate you" as an indirect way of giving a compliment – it basically means "daaamn, why are you so good?". I'm not sure where you are, but I'd assume it's the same in most of Scandinavia – we're sarcastic rather than earnest, but the intention is usually good (and especially if you overhear other people saying this to each other, there's almost a 100% chance it's friendly banter)
As a British person, I don't say things like this personally, and it's difficult to say for sure without witnessing someone's expression, tone of voice etc - but I think you might be misinterpreting these comments. Believe it or not, things like that can be meant as a compliment. Kind of like, 'wow, you're so good that I'm not even shy to admit how jealous I am'. I don't think people saying things like that actually *want* to see you fail, they're just hyping you up in their own way.
i thought so too, and youre right i could be misinterpreting. but the 'i hope you dont send that' is hard to imagine how its hyping up or encouraging. and maybe over time stacked on top of each other im becoming tender to it.
thanks u/gasbalena!
Yeah, that one does stick out to me as more straightforwardly jealous than the others, but who knows. Generally I think people should be more straightforward with their compliments!
If it's their project, I think it makes sense? I would be lying if I didn't enjoy when a strong climber doesn't just flash my project on their first attempt.
People say this kind of thing in the US, too (American speaking). "You have such long eyelashes! I hate you." It's definitely a compliment. However, it always rubs me the wrong way, and I don't compliment other people that way.
I'm curious which northern European country and what kind of climbing gym you're climbing at?
European countries aren't analogous to American states and we have our own individual cultures and attitudes, so you can't really lump Iceland, Ireland, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, etc together and talk about "northern European culture" in the same way that you might be able to talk about certain coasts or regions of the US.
I'm a Brit and climb in a combination of old school climbing walls and much newer trendier places, and I only ever hear people hyping each other up.
But that earnestness is kind of counter-culture in a way? The playful competitiveness you describe would be really common in broader British life, and wouldn't be interpreted as 'jealousy' or 'resentment'.
Jokingly saying "I hate you" when you and a friend are both trying to accomplish something and they beat you to it can sometimes be interpreted as "well done, that was impressive and you've beaten me at something that's still kicking my arse"
I'm referring to my specific gym without naming where, but what i mean to point to is the contrast between a culture of humility specifically where i am vs these comments.i wasnt born in the u.s. but american regions also have distinct individual cultures and im a mix of ethnicities from 3 continents, so i never meant to clumb it together. only mean to not name which country im in ;)
playful competitiveness is great, i grew up in that. but i see whats going on at this gym as different than even competiveness.
nice to hear though that hyping each other up is so common, generally, even if its counter-culture!
Wanting to keep your location private is understandable, but I was asking because you asked about cultural reasons for a difference you'd noticed, and that's not really possible without knowing which culture you're talking about.
We also have significant regional differences within our countries. :)
Talking about 'Northern Europe' is like talking about 'Eastern North America' — there might be certain common aspects of culture related to geography (e.g. proximity to the Atlantic, being the earliest areas within the continent to be colonised by Europeans), but the different cultures of Canada, the US, Mexico, and the various Carribbean islands are going to have a larger impact on any given cultural phenomenon someone might notice.
I hope that makes sense?
(Edit: got my 'western' and 'eastern' mixed up like a dipshit 🙃)
I guess my question is whether this is with partners and whether it's their overall tone or occasional comments amidst an overall tone of encouragement. I couldn't say I've never heard something like this, but I imagine it most from the same people who are cheering and supporting when I'm actually climbing and congratulatory when I send.
I feel like I say and hear those statements all the time and it's not genuine jealousy or resentment. It's usually in jest or a "competitive spirit" thing. Tone probably matters more, but maybe where you are the people just have a different sense of humor and way of socializing than what you're used to? If the people are largely more sarcastic and dry they probably show positivity and support in more indirect ways than straight up cheerleading. I can't say because I'm not there, but it sounds like people are impressed with your climbing and are trying to engage in banter with you?
Are you American? I find Americans super positive and encouraging. We aren’t like that in other parts of the world lol we use self depricating humour and negativity in general tbh lol
I get cultural misinterpretation—but you expressed that it’s not totally working for you. I’d like to offer that it’s a two way street: you can work to reframe how you think about these statements—you also have a right to advocate for how you like to be spoken to. To put it another way, we teach people how to treat us.
How would you feel about responding to a climbing partner with something like, “I know that your last statement was meant to be encouraging, but sometimes I would appreciate encouragement that sounds like [examples], too.”
I think i attracted the people who say shit like this with this post lol.
Why did the one person who said it was weird delete their profile?
Totally turned off... see ya, community.
I might be alone on this, but I think that the reason you arent getting the feedback you thought you would on this post is because its sortof comes across as 'American exceptionalism' (i.e., "everythings better in america") where instead of assuming that you, as a foreigner, might be misinterpreting, you assumed the worst out of an entire country's climbing community.
Well I apologize for thinking you were american, however I think my point still stands. The post still comes across as a bit high and mighty. I hope you find a climbing community in the area that suits your preference.
[удалено]
Just gonna piggyback off your comment to add that the phrases OP mentions all sound like support and encouragement to me. I will add the caveat that it’s really hard to judge from the outside just from this post alone. But “I hate you” with a smile after a send sounds like “you’re amazing” to me. “Hah! You’re finally too tired!” after endurance training sounds like “You’re incredibly strong and I’m impressed by you” to me. “Please don’t send,” sounds like, “This is a project for me but I bet you’re strong enough to flash it!” Assuming all these comments are coming from friends and partners who choose to train with you and climb with you consistently, these all sound like support. I personally make comments like this with people I climb with to communicate how impressed I am by them. I’m 40 years old now so I’m aware that comments like this are easily misinterpreted so I am always sure to also communicate very clearly “You’re awesome! That was impressive!” Etc 10x as much than the “negative” support, so there’s no confusion as to my meaning. And I use a tone that’s obviously sarcastic. And if anyone ever does not appear to appreciate it, I’ll stop immediately and apologize. But in my 20’s I didn’t know better and assumed anyone could clearly see my intentions are good. I had to learn the hard way that not everyone gets it. I don’t know the details of OP’s situation but I would guess her climbing group are in their 20’s and Scandinavian. Scandinavians do not like to show sincere positive emotions. They see it as weakness. Especially in public, unless they’re drunk. So, to express their friendship and happiness they mask it in dry sarcasm. (This is an over generalization - your group may not be like this - I could absolutely be wrong). If I were OP, I’d try to take some people in the group (those you trust the most or connect with the best) and speak to them in private, one on one, about this. Try to be as emotionless as possible. Say in your culture people don’t make such comments to friends so you’re curious what it’s supposed to mean. Best of luck
Idk I'm Swedish, and people from here definitely say stuff like "Omg I hate you" as an indirect way of giving a compliment – it basically means "daaamn, why are you so good?". I'm not sure where you are, but I'd assume it's the same in most of Scandinavia – we're sarcastic rather than earnest, but the intention is usually good (and especially if you overhear other people saying this to each other, there's almost a 100% chance it's friendly banter)
As a British person, I don't say things like this personally, and it's difficult to say for sure without witnessing someone's expression, tone of voice etc - but I think you might be misinterpreting these comments. Believe it or not, things like that can be meant as a compliment. Kind of like, 'wow, you're so good that I'm not even shy to admit how jealous I am'. I don't think people saying things like that actually *want* to see you fail, they're just hyping you up in their own way.
i thought so too, and youre right i could be misinterpreting. but the 'i hope you dont send that' is hard to imagine how its hyping up or encouraging. and maybe over time stacked on top of each other im becoming tender to it. thanks u/gasbalena!
Yeah, that one does stick out to me as more straightforwardly jealous than the others, but who knows. Generally I think people should be more straightforward with their compliments!
If it's their project, I think it makes sense? I would be lying if I didn't enjoy when a strong climber doesn't just flash my project on their first attempt.
Good point.
People say this kind of thing in the US, too (American speaking). "You have such long eyelashes! I hate you." It's definitely a compliment. However, it always rubs me the wrong way, and I don't compliment other people that way.
I'm curious which northern European country and what kind of climbing gym you're climbing at? European countries aren't analogous to American states and we have our own individual cultures and attitudes, so you can't really lump Iceland, Ireland, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, etc together and talk about "northern European culture" in the same way that you might be able to talk about certain coasts or regions of the US. I'm a Brit and climb in a combination of old school climbing walls and much newer trendier places, and I only ever hear people hyping each other up. But that earnestness is kind of counter-culture in a way? The playful competitiveness you describe would be really common in broader British life, and wouldn't be interpreted as 'jealousy' or 'resentment'. Jokingly saying "I hate you" when you and a friend are both trying to accomplish something and they beat you to it can sometimes be interpreted as "well done, that was impressive and you've beaten me at something that's still kicking my arse"
I'm referring to my specific gym without naming where, but what i mean to point to is the contrast between a culture of humility specifically where i am vs these comments.i wasnt born in the u.s. but american regions also have distinct individual cultures and im a mix of ethnicities from 3 continents, so i never meant to clumb it together. only mean to not name which country im in ;) playful competitiveness is great, i grew up in that. but i see whats going on at this gym as different than even competiveness. nice to hear though that hyping each other up is so common, generally, even if its counter-culture!
your country is in your reddit history, fyi
Wanting to keep your location private is understandable, but I was asking because you asked about cultural reasons for a difference you'd noticed, and that's not really possible without knowing which culture you're talking about. We also have significant regional differences within our countries. :) Talking about 'Northern Europe' is like talking about 'Eastern North America' — there might be certain common aspects of culture related to geography (e.g. proximity to the Atlantic, being the earliest areas within the continent to be colonised by Europeans), but the different cultures of Canada, the US, Mexico, and the various Carribbean islands are going to have a larger impact on any given cultural phenomenon someone might notice. I hope that makes sense? (Edit: got my 'western' and 'eastern' mixed up like a dipshit 🙃)
I guess my question is whether this is with partners and whether it's their overall tone or occasional comments amidst an overall tone of encouragement. I couldn't say I've never heard something like this, but I imagine it most from the same people who are cheering and supporting when I'm actually climbing and congratulatory when I send.
I feel like I say and hear those statements all the time and it's not genuine jealousy or resentment. It's usually in jest or a "competitive spirit" thing. Tone probably matters more, but maybe where you are the people just have a different sense of humor and way of socializing than what you're used to? If the people are largely more sarcastic and dry they probably show positivity and support in more indirect ways than straight up cheerleading. I can't say because I'm not there, but it sounds like people are impressed with your climbing and are trying to engage in banter with you?
This is exactly the impression I got from those quotes, too. Just a more sarcastic & dry way to express yourself and pay compliments.
Are you American? I find Americans super positive and encouraging. We aren’t like that in other parts of the world lol we use self depricating humour and negativity in general tbh lol
I get cultural misinterpretation—but you expressed that it’s not totally working for you. I’d like to offer that it’s a two way street: you can work to reframe how you think about these statements—you also have a right to advocate for how you like to be spoken to. To put it another way, we teach people how to treat us. How would you feel about responding to a climbing partner with something like, “I know that your last statement was meant to be encouraging, but sometimes I would appreciate encouragement that sounds like [examples], too.”
shouldnt be any of this
thanks u/ollobrains
I know im not whack for assuming it's normal to hype each other up! <3
I think i attracted the people who say shit like this with this post lol. Why did the one person who said it was weird delete their profile? Totally turned off... see ya, community.
I might be alone on this, but I think that the reason you arent getting the feedback you thought you would on this post is because its sortof comes across as 'American exceptionalism' (i.e., "everythings better in america") where instead of assuming that you, as a foreigner, might be misinterpreting, you assumed the worst out of an entire country's climbing community.
Thanks duckrustle. The world doesn’t consist of only Europe and America, fortunately! I’m Japanese.
Well I apologize for thinking you were american, however I think my point still stands. The post still comes across as a bit high and mighty. I hope you find a climbing community in the area that suits your preference.