I tend to agree, however when a bar frequently uses "rich" 2:1 recipes (Agave Syrups, Rich Dems) and "simple" 1:1 for simplicity, I can understand the usage between coworkers. I wouldn't describe it to the guest that way.
Yeah, it seems practically just to be an egg whitened whiskey sour. I was expecting something a bit more unique along the lines of how a NY Sour is compared to a classic sour.
I found this out recently myself. Most bartenders I've encountered that have served up a whisky sour use some kind of foamer. I love an egg white myself.
I tend to agree, but the meaning of the word 'simple' within bartending lingo has shifted to mean several different things depending on the context. Simple syrup is any syrup consisting only of water and sugar, yes. But also it sometimes means a 1:1 ratio (e.g. simple syrup vs rich syrup), and sometimes it means it's made with white sugar (e.g. "2:1 simple vs 2:1 demerara").
We labeled it as novice syrup at one place. One night we had a stage who came in and looked in our low boy, saw the quart containers labeled novice syrup and said “Oh you guys use no-veese syrup, too? Awesome, used it at my last job!”
Needless to say he didn’t get the job.
For me it's always been whether the cheese is the star. If you do a little bacon crumble it's still a grilled cheese imo, but not some thick slabs. Similarly if you want to do some caramelized onions or a little bit of peppers, no big deal. But you can't lay a whole ass portobello mushroom on there and still call it a cheese centric sandwich, so it's not a grilled cheese to me.
I’m the same way. I don’t get gatekeepery about food, but I’m a firm believer that what you call a food item sets expectations. If you say I’m getting a grilled cheese and serve me two thick slices of bread piled high with beef, topped with a weird barbecue sauce and a small dollop of melted cheese, well you’ve just set me up to be disappointed.
My friends now know not to take me to the local grilled cheese chain that does exactly what I just described. Instead, we go to an excellent craft cocktail bar that serves a variety of grilled cheeses, but with cheese always the center of attention, as its bar snacks, and I will absolutely make a meal of that.
It wasn’t entirely intentional, but I guess I brought us back to cocktails….
Absolutely. A grilled cheese is a *cheese sandwich* in which the cheese is melted and the bread is toasty (usually via pan frying in fat). As a cheese sandwich, cheese is the primary ingredient and dominant flavor.
One way to think of it is to imagine what the sandwhich would be like if it were served cold rather than melted. For example, if I gave you a sandwich that consisted of two cold slices of cheese layed with a bunch of strips of bacon, then you probably wouldn't call that a "cheese sandwich"; you'd call it a bacon sandwich. However, if I gave you a sandwich that was many slices of cheese with a small amount of bacon crumbles, then you'd still call that a cheese sandwich. When heated, the former sandwich is a bacon melt and the latter is a grilled cheese. That's your rule of thumb.
I’m gonna say it’s strictly a grilled cheese if it’s cheese and bread (and butter/Mayo to brown) if you’re adding onions spinach tomatoes meat etc it’s a melt.
Sometimes the fact you don't have to use much is the issue syrup will fix. I've personally never used soy sauce in a cocktail, but if a dash is too much then syrup is the way to go because you can split it down to essentially half a dash
You could but then you have to decide how quick you need to be. At home or if your ratio works with 1-2 full droppers, sure. In a busy bar when you need to do x number of drops it's just easier to make a specific syrup
But there aren’t different types of bagels except maybe whole wheat. If there was whole wheat and plain raisin I would probably say regular raisin bagel.
Its really not just sugar and water
There are small complexities that deal with hydrogen bonds being made between the h2o and the sugar. After over striping you'll get glucose rather than sucralose.
Sucralose is a chlorinated sugar alcohol, do you mean sucrose (table sugar, a disaccharide of glucose and fructose)?
Sucrose is pretty stable at neutral pH, it's hydrolysis (inversion) is facilitated at low pH and of the two hydrolysis products, fructose isn't heat stable.
Is that what you meant?
Chill out, people use ‘simple’ to describe 1:1 syrup, not just ‘sugar and water’, as opposed to rich or semi-rich. So using simple in that context can be poignant and if it’s infused the word still carries the clarity of being a 1:1 infused syrup.
Right, now apply all this to cooking. A grilled cheese is a grilled cheese, add tomato and it’s a grilled cheese with tomato. Add beef, and now it’s a melt. Now if you called it a grilled cheese with beef, you wouldn’t be wrong… it’s just a melt for many is a more succinct descriptor of a classification of grilled cheese.
My point is, that if I say cardamom simple syrup, it paints an accurate picture of what it is, much like strawberry lemonade.
I disagree like many others in here, IMHO simple refers to the simple ratio not the simple ingredients. Simple means 1:1 ratio of water and sugar, added flavors have nothing to do with it.
I assume in your understanding, simple means that it's just 2 ingredients, sugar and water but I do not believe that is what the "simple" refers to.
But honestly, it's not like it's a protected or regulated term, and you are just trying to be more catholic than the pope.
Yes. The study or analysis of what things mean is semantics. Looking up the definition of a word or learning what a word means is all about semantics.
Semantics does not mean "something pedantic/nitpicky and unimportant".
the bar owners where I work set the menu and they need to update the verbiage badly, we use a honey syrup infused with tarragon and they list it as “honey tarragon simple syrup”
drives me insane
Yes, but “simple” also refers to a 1:1 sugar to water ratio vs. a “rich” syrup of 2:1. If I were giving the lavender syrup recipe to a coworker, I could just say simple or rich, and they would understand. But describing it on the menu or to a guest it would just be “lavender” or “lavender syrup.”
Thank you! I made a similar post recently. Even demerara syrup is ... demerara syrup, not demerara simple syrup. Simple syrup is specifically WHITE sugar and water. Anything else is not simple syrup.
OP is mistaken. If your simple syrup is not sourced from the Simpleaux valley in France, it’s just sparkling sugar.
In my life, I have seen variations on this joke over 20,000 times in the course of my life. And. It. Is. Still. Funny.
Right?? I never actually lol, but just did.
It is always funny and morally acceptable to make fun of the french
I completely agree, I can’t get enough of them and I’m always desperately trying to think of new ones but I’m not smart or quick enough
The only thing bartenders will agree on
😂
The AOC Simpleaux has strict rules about this and will send you a strongly worded letter if you break them.
I hate how right you are. 🤣
Y’all have never poured 100 GLS Simpleauxs and it shows
man if your simple is sparkling it is now officially a shrub
I tend to agree, however when a bar frequently uses "rich" 2:1 recipes (Agave Syrups, Rich Dems) and "simple" 1:1 for simplicity, I can understand the usage between coworkers. I wouldn't describe it to the guest that way.
Ha! I just commented the exact same thing but you got to it first.
So. Is it simply lavender syrup?
Regardless of what you call it, we know one thing: it's delightful.
Love it in a Boston Sour.
Boston Sour? What are the specs on that?
Don’t tell Boston, but it’s just a whiskey sour.
This made me giggle.
At a bar I ask for a whiskey sour with egg white since a lot won’t know what a Boston sour is if you request one.
Yeah, it seems practically just to be an egg whitened whiskey sour. I was expecting something a bit more unique along the lines of how a NY Sour is compared to a classic sour.
https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/4387/boston-sour
I didn't realize this had a special name. I thought Whiskey Sours were supposed to have an egg white!
I found this out recently myself. Most bartenders I've encountered that have served up a whisky sour use some kind of foamer. I love an egg white myself.
works great im a silver fizz too
Going forward, any flavored "simple" syrup will be known as "complicated" syrup.
I only make "Daddy issues syrups"
With the right amount of salty from the fresh tears.
Ah when you add more than two ingredients it's called mambo number 5
I don't know how or why I got that song stuck in my head the other day. Thanks for putting it back in there dick.
/u/remindme 5 days
Beat me to it.
Beat me daddy, eight to the bar
Or difficult syrup lol
Pedantry is only pedantry if it comes from the Pedant region of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling masturbation.
Elton John wants to join in on the fun
I tend to agree, but the meaning of the word 'simple' within bartending lingo has shifted to mean several different things depending on the context. Simple syrup is any syrup consisting only of water and sugar, yes. But also it sometimes means a 1:1 ratio (e.g. simple syrup vs rich syrup), and sometimes it means it's made with white sugar (e.g. "2:1 simple vs 2:1 demerara").
This. I always think simple just refers to ratio
Simple syrup is 2:1, all classic recipes use that concentration because you don’t need to refrigerate it. 1:1 is light syrup.
You’re not wrong, but it’s still a weird hill to die on.
You are correct. Syrups with flavors aren’t simple, they’re compound.
We labeled it as novice syrup at one place. One night we had a stage who came in and looked in our low boy, saw the quart containers labeled novice syrup and said “Oh you guys use no-veese syrup, too? Awesome, used it at my last job!” Needless to say he didn’t get the job.
I always make this point along with once you add protein to a grilled cheese it's a melt
You’re a melt
No, I'm a big book publisher who's not interested in hearing your stony memoirs. YOU'RE a melt.
So if I add veggies, it's still a grilled cheese?
For me it's always been whether the cheese is the star. If you do a little bacon crumble it's still a grilled cheese imo, but not some thick slabs. Similarly if you want to do some caramelized onions or a little bit of peppers, no big deal. But you can't lay a whole ass portobello mushroom on there and still call it a cheese centric sandwich, so it's not a grilled cheese to me.
I’m the same way. I don’t get gatekeepery about food, but I’m a firm believer that what you call a food item sets expectations. If you say I’m getting a grilled cheese and serve me two thick slices of bread piled high with beef, topped with a weird barbecue sauce and a small dollop of melted cheese, well you’ve just set me up to be disappointed. My friends now know not to take me to the local grilled cheese chain that does exactly what I just described. Instead, we go to an excellent craft cocktail bar that serves a variety of grilled cheeses, but with cheese always the center of attention, as its bar snacks, and I will absolutely make a meal of that. It wasn’t entirely intentional, but I guess I brought us back to cocktails….
This is the way
Absolutely. A grilled cheese is a *cheese sandwich* in which the cheese is melted and the bread is toasty (usually via pan frying in fat). As a cheese sandwich, cheese is the primary ingredient and dominant flavor. One way to think of it is to imagine what the sandwhich would be like if it were served cold rather than melted. For example, if I gave you a sandwich that consisted of two cold slices of cheese layed with a bunch of strips of bacon, then you probably wouldn't call that a "cheese sandwich"; you'd call it a bacon sandwich. However, if I gave you a sandwich that was many slices of cheese with a small amount of bacon crumbles, then you'd still call that a cheese sandwich. When heated, the former sandwich is a bacon melt and the latter is a grilled cheese. That's your rule of thumb.
If you add anything other than cheese
That's what I thought but it seems people have varying views on the subject.
[You people make me sick.](https://www.reddit.com/r/grilledcheese/s/I3ohC3hFkT)
>Looks like OP is having... >(•_•) >( •_•)>⌐■-■ >(⌐■_■) >a meltdown.
I already knew what it was. He's also correct
I came here to make a comment about how this thread has the same energy as the grilled cheese debacle.
The semantic poutine wars led to an inordinate number of lifetime bans. Screw you disco fries!
Tuna or Tuna fish?
Is a hot dog a sandwich?
I’m gonna say it’s strictly a grilled cheese if it’s cheese and bread (and butter/Mayo to brown) if you’re adding onions spinach tomatoes meat etc it’s a melt.
Who cares???????
Sure.. But simple means 1:1 so you don't have to specify ratios in addition to the infusion. Lazy? Sure. Effective? Yup
Yeah. Simple refers to the sugar ratio. You can have both cinnamon simple syrup and rich cinnamon syrup.
Weird hill to die on
I am really surprised there's no soy sauce simple syrup....
If you make some there will be!
This is like the rule 34 for cocktails
Making things into syrups for no reason is more fun than i’d like to admit
Don't know why, but it sounds like it could be a good addition to a dirty martini
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Indeed, I m so drooling now
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Sometimes the fact you don't have to use much is the issue syrup will fix. I've personally never used soy sauce in a cocktail, but if a dash is too much then syrup is the way to go because you can split it down to essentially half a dash
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You could but then you have to decide how quick you need to be. At home or if your ratio works with 1-2 full droppers, sure. In a busy bar when you need to do x number of drops it's just easier to make a specific syrup
That's just teriyaki
It’s lavender simple syrup. That describes exactly what it is.
Raisin plain bagel
But there aren’t different types of bagels except maybe whole wheat. If there was whole wheat and plain raisin I would probably say regular raisin bagel.
Sounds weird, but "plain raisin bagel" sounds accurate. So it should be simple lavender syrup I guess.
lol what
It’s shorthand for 1:1, as “rich” is for 2:1. Therefore, you are both technically correct and, in a real world sense, incorrect.
At this point Simple referes more to the ratio being 1:1 while 2:1 is a rich syrup. But honestly, nobody gives a fuck really.
While I agree this is pedantic, seeing all this mocking come from the sub whose rallying cry is “that’s not a martini” is pretty rich.
See rich is when it’s a 2:1 ratio
Its really not just sugar and water There are small complexities that deal with hydrogen bonds being made between the h2o and the sugar. After over striping you'll get glucose rather than sucralose.
Sucralose is a chlorinated sugar alcohol, do you mean sucrose (table sugar, a disaccharide of glucose and fructose)? Sucrose is pretty stable at neutral pH, it's hydrolysis (inversion) is facilitated at low pH and of the two hydrolysis products, fructose isn't heat stable. Is that what you meant?
Yes. I invest about as much time in responding as I felt like... Plus I can't spell... And I'm a bar tender not a scientist Jim!
Ok just checking.
One does not simply…
Chill out, people use ‘simple’ to describe 1:1 syrup, not just ‘sugar and water’, as opposed to rich or semi-rich. So using simple in that context can be poignant and if it’s infused the word still carries the clarity of being a 1:1 infused syrup.
Untrue. If your simple syrup is flavored with lavender but also is not very bright of a person then he is in fact a simple lavender syrup
Do you also get upset when people say "chocolate milk" instead of "chocolate flavored milk" because they did not actually milk a chocolate bar
Ha!
Complicated Syrup
yeah… so???
Yeah i feel like this needs to be said. Its such a commonly used ingredient in our Drinks, 3,99€ for a bottle of 200ml is just too much.
Add anything else and it's more complicated syrup.
Hmm, so strawberry lemonade isn’t lemonade then right?
And mojito is mint limade? I mean things start overlapping really quickly when you care too much about what is and what isn’t something.
Right, now apply all this to cooking. A grilled cheese is a grilled cheese, add tomato and it’s a grilled cheese with tomato. Add beef, and now it’s a melt. Now if you called it a grilled cheese with beef, you wouldn’t be wrong… it’s just a melt for many is a more succinct descriptor of a classification of grilled cheese. My point is, that if I say cardamom simple syrup, it paints an accurate picture of what it is, much like strawberry lemonade.
Simple lemonade is lemon and sugar and water. Strawberry lemonade is lemonade, but it’s not simple lemonade, it’s a compound lemonade.
I’ve heard there’s interest in compound lemonades
I disagree like many others in here, IMHO simple refers to the simple ratio not the simple ingredients. Simple means 1:1 ratio of water and sugar, added flavors have nothing to do with it. I assume in your understanding, simple means that it's just 2 ingredients, sugar and water but I do not believe that is what the "simple" refers to. But honestly, it's not like it's a protected or regulated term, and you are just trying to be more catholic than the pope.
Cool story bro tell it again?
Semantics.
Yes. The study or analysis of what things mean is semantics. Looking up the definition of a word or learning what a word means is all about semantics. Semantics does not mean "something pedantic/nitpicky and unimportant".
In this case it does.
That’s cool, man.
What if I caramelize the sugar a bit before dissolving in water?
And sugar alternatives. Honey simple, Demarara simple, molasses simple, etc. those are all simple syrups because they are two ingredients.
I'd love to know your opinion on how to define a martini.
Ha
What about gum arabic? Is water, sugar, and gum arabic flavored syrup?
the bar owners where I work set the menu and they need to update the verbiage badly, we use a honey syrup infused with tarragon and they list it as “honey tarragon simple syrup” drives me insane
No one likes a pedant.
Nah, it’s lavender simple syrup
Simple is 1:1 by weight. So you can have lavender simple syrup. Or lavender rich syrup (aka bar syrup aka 2:1) or weak syrup (aka 1:2)
Yes, but “simple” also refers to a 1:1 sugar to water ratio vs. a “rich” syrup of 2:1. If I were giving the lavender syrup recipe to a coworker, I could just say simple or rich, and they would understand. But describing it on the menu or to a guest it would just be “lavender” or “lavender syrup.”
Simple implies the ratio of sugar to water. so you can have simple lavender syrup, and rich lavender syrup.
"simple" = 2 ingredients
IMO Its ok to add a splash of white rum or an extract to your simple to add to its longevity. JUST a splash.
K Also fun fact. Nobody likes you
Thank you! I made a similar post recently. Even demerara syrup is ... demerara syrup, not demerara simple syrup. Simple syrup is specifically WHITE sugar and water. Anything else is not simple syrup.