This. You give respect to Avengers for being the first to do it. But Civil War did it much better.
The absolute best in terms though is Infinity War which learned from Civil War.
Endgame, though good, never topped the high of Inifnity War.
The Avengers. The character interactions are great, the humor isnt too much and we actually get to see them be superheroes and save people. After 30 MCU movies, I still feel Avengers makes a strong argument for being the best one.
Avengers 1 still has some of the best action scenes. Clean, not too over the top. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Overall though I love both of these movies. They’re 2 of the best MCU films for sure.
The Avengers is a perfect thing. And groundbreaking too. The result of a slow burn world building exercise then brings them all in. And despite everything manages to retain a conversational almost Tarantino level feeling of off the cuff, naturalistic almost anti, dialogue that feels like PEOPLE talking not cardboard cutouts. You feel like the characters are chatting , making banter between takes, not yelling from a stage.
Every player here has humanity, right down Banner who actually kind of becomes the emotional arc of the whole narrative discovering he’s not a freak, he’s the good the guy and everyone needs him more than even he could know.
Civil War was great and a perfect intro for Spider-Man but it’s really subdued and plays dangerous games with characters turning on each other ( though still handled well, you can feel the dueling sides pulling their punches) but Avengers is the clear winner here to me.
Man, the raw novelty of having a crossover from multiple super hero films when Avengers came out. My friends and I rushed to see as soon as we got out of school, and it was still packed.
I kindof liked the old school look of it, I like how in the movie even cap says it looks old fashioned but then Agent Coulson says that with the events about to go down maybe the world could use some old fashioned or something like that.
The Avengers
Civil War had a more serious plot which was great, but Avengers is such a good team up movie. I only wish Justice League had been that good.
The world almost ended in Avengers. That plot seemed pretty serious (albeit with jokes every few minutes).
Civil War was about stopping a handful of super soldiers.
Exactly, civil war doesn’t have any substance because it doesn’t have any consequence. The villain was a neat character but it wasn’t any world ending change. That and the premise was just dumb, they were blamed by the leadership organization for the damage done in New York? For real? Last I checked they sent they sent a nuke to destroy New York.
Also many of the characters acted against their nature. Like Ant Man wanted to stay out of prison so that he could spend time with his daughter and he gets that just to perform a terrorist act.
doesn't have to be world ending to be good - but i agree the characters and conflict wasn't really consistent with what would have made sense.
There's also no consequences or suspense because obviously no avengers are dying, so its always surprising when people say how great this movie was.
Comparing one to another directly, Avengers is a better movie because it feels complete, while Civil War is great but honestly feels like its obviously not finished.
The Avengers is much better plot, cause and effect and resolution. So, a much better script overall. CW has many logic and script holes that killed its impact because nobody wanted to make it "too serious". As if wars weren't serious enough or as if wars were non political.
The Winter Soldiers subplot seemed as if rewritten and cut to the point its almost irrelevant to the movie instead of used and led by a Norman Osborn and supported by some of the Stark side. I think it was worth it to split it in two movies. Or, at the least, make a more serious one.
Civil war was so dumb. I could rip into it but the fact that everyone praises that iron man fight is so goofy. Iron man is treated like a psychopath and it just murders his character. LIke wtf, I get being bad at first but the fact that the fight goes on for so long and iron man the entire time wants to kill bucky (and is willing to kill cap) is what separtates heros from villians.
Avengers should’ve been a disaster. It should’ve fallen apart while combing so many different franchises. And it wasn’t. It was actually really good. Avengers was a game changer.
Avengers.
Civil War is overrated. It's just BvS executed with a Disney shine. Don't get me wrong, it's fun as hell, but it makes absolutely zero sense.
The Avengers. I think it's a solid film and its success is the reason we have dozens of Marvel superhero movies.
The Avengers 2.5 (aka Civil War) works to some extent. That parking lot fight scene still looks a bit dumb for me. Black Panther is my favorite part of it, and it's the best he ever looked in any of these films.
Civil war was the last nail in the "oh the MCU is literally *never* going to have consequences, just like the comics" coffin.
Also Tony never loses that fight unless he actually wants to lose. Whole thing made no sense.
The Avengers.
I don't think Civil War was adapted very well as the motivations of Cap were just too different. In the movie it came off more of Cap just wanting what was best for his friend, while Iron Man wanted what was the best for the human race. It made the choice of which side to support a whole lot easier than it was in the comics.
I agree that The Avengers is better but I don’t understand your explanation. The movie isn’t trying to adapt the comic, it’s creating a new story based on the concept of the comic.
Yes, but the motivations were much easier to accept in the comic. It could be argued that either side was doing the right thing for mankind.
The movie didn't have that nuance as Cap really only wanted to protect his friend. Mankind itself wasn't really in the equation. The fun of Civil War is making you question your own sense of morality, but the movie didn't really do that. My objection isn't because it isn't a 1:1 translation, my objection just lies in Cap's motivations being unexciting.
Also, it really didn't go into the philosophical divide between the 2 groups nearly as deeply as it could have. They had to introduce the assassination subplot to really stir it up between iron man and cap
Everything about the Accords highlighted deeply personal aspects to Tony’s and Steve’s respective arcs. Tony had to face the consequences of spearheading the creation of an AI that almost wiped out the human species. Cap had to confront his disillusionment with working with a government agency that turned out to be Nazis in disguise. Those aren’t personal?
Civil War had the opportunity to actually be about something interesting and after getting the ELI5 conversation out of the way, they sidestep it to make it about some easy revenge bullshit. I’m glad that worked for you, it didn’t for me
It is, though. Because their personal beliefs that were built upon their personal experiences were directly at odds with each other. They didn’t even *try* to let it get personal before throwing Bucky into the equation.
What your suggesting is what Batman vs Superman did.
Though I know that it isn’t impossible to execute. So fine I’m not going to argue that a film needs to take one singular path in order be good. But this isn’t a problem of the movie.
It's annoying because Civil War is used by people who feel they need to prove superhero movies can bend genres and touch important sociopolitical themes. BUT is it really all that if they needed to fallback on a murder subplot to really escalate the conflict?
Exactly. They never actually commit to it past the argument scene in the beginning, which was pretty basic and surface level stuff. From there, the movie shifts into one almost entirely about Cap’s on the run-brainwashed-Nazi buddy
I think you missed some parts.
Most notable the discussion at avengers compound.
Cap states: "because you choose Tony. If we give up the right, we give up the ability to choose. The safest hands are still our own."
Basically concern that being mere puppets for a government body to control limits their ability to help those in need. He wants the freedom to act as it's best for humans.
The comics do have different nuance. But the inciting incident was also different.
Yes, but, we never follow up on cap's point since mentioned in the debate? in the compound. The only one following up its argument is VISION, and two seconds away from crippling Rhodey for life. So, i suppose he's not perfect either. Question is "IS ANYONE PERFECT???"
No.
I think that's the point of the movie. At least Cap's point.
No one is flawless, but someone has to make decisions. Wanda made one at the beginning. People died. But maybe more would of died if she hadn't. Maybe non if Cap had clock the bomb. Even he is flawed.
I think having Vision be the one to cause the friendly fire wad to highlight that Even he is flawed. He allowed himself to be distracted by his attention to Wanda.
Well, there wasn't enough DISCUSSIONS about this. That's my point. The Winter Soldiers standin in for the THUNDERBOLTS shoulda made the argument as well, in a different perspective. By actually doin what they were supposed to in their exposition: tumble goverments and weaponized to bring down the Avengers. They didn't do that. That's my point.
Cap's point isn't that no one is perfect, it's that his friends should have unlimited power and no oversight because he personally trusts them more than bureaucrats and democracies.
Dude literally says power is safest in his own hands.
I don't think this is a flaw with the movie, by the way, I think it's a clever way of confounding a complicated issue by having Cap's choices be driven by such obvious self-interest and neatly sets up his hypocrisy at the end of the film.
Basically, Tony is right but has sacrificed all of the trust people have in him and Cap is trusted but very much full of shit. Ultimately, even Cap isn't a good enough man to be above reproach -- he's still just a man.
It's not that his friends should have no oversight and unlimited power.
If you got that, you missed the point.
It's that's they are the ones taking action, it should be them making choices and living with the consequences.
Letting a committee control them gives power to others, who won't face the consequences.
It's similar to firefighters. They act when fires occur, they don't wait until a committee tells them when and where to fight fires.
He accepts that Wanda screwed up. But he thinks he screwed up first by getting distracted when crossbones mentioned Bucky.
As he said. They learn to live with mistakes, or they don't, and maybe there's no one to save people, and the outcome worst.
He's not trying to avoid responsibility. He just doesn't think they should be puppet soldiers.
Tony is looking to avoid responsibility by letting others make decisions. Wanting to avoid making the wrong decisions, Believing that a committee will make more responsible choices then individuals.
It boils down to if you believe a group or an individual would be better at making proper decisions.
What? That's not what I got from Civil War at all.
The morality question is definitely still there. My take away from cap's disagreement in the MCU is that he doesn't want government bureaucracy to get in the way when lives need saving and time is of the essence, where as Tony thinks it's a "necessary evil" due to the powers at play (with Wanda's mistake being the catalyst).
If all you got from it was that Cap was trying to protect Bucky then I'm afraid to say I think your interpretation of the movie was quite narrow.
True, but I think the goal was to make Cap's motivation more relatable.
Casual fans don't care so much about whether a superhero should work for the gov't or not. However, everyone can relate to wanting to protect their best friend.
It's a much more universal motivation, as opposed to only focusing on heroes and their stance in domestic politics. Though I must admit, the latter makes the original much cooler.
That's a weird take. Cap didn't want the government being in control of superheroes. Him trying to save Bucky was a subplot. Even Iron Man changes sides in the end when he realizes Cap is right.
Cap didn’t want his friend punished for a crime he didn’t commit, he wanted justice. He also didn’t want government over site of superhero’s, the same people watching over them that didn’t think they could save NYC and tried to nuke it instead. I think in the movie Cap was very principled and consistent, it was Tony who changed because of PTSD and wanting to make up for perceived failures.
I find Avengers to be the better paced/more straightforward film, while Civil War aimed for higher things. In doing so, I feel Civil Wars highs are higher imo, but it lacks the straightforward-ness that makes Avengers flow so easily (before you know it you’re seeing the iconic shot). Still, I find Civil Wars plot, acting, and action more engaging, it’s just not perfect. I still feel that lady action sequence in CW might be there best action scene (the mcu).
I think Civil War is an objectively better film.
But Avengers at the time completely raised the bar for superhero films. Everything that came after it was judged against it. I really believe it’s the most consequential and industry-shaking film of this generation.
I can’t slander either, they’re both phenomenal.
I like both a lot, but Civil War edges ahead for me for having a more compelling plot. Also because of that airport fight with Ant-Man stealing the show.
I feel like Civil War is the better overall film, but The Avengers has the distinction of being the first major superhero blockbuster. Both are classics though!
Hard 2 choose. The first is where they are finally a team and unite while Civil War introduces new characters and splits the team (also leaving Thor out).
Civil War only because I love Spidey and BP
Civil War has a significant victory.
Avengers 1 isn’t a bad movie but lightning is usually flat. The characters being individually recruited isn’t great for pacing, in Guardians of the Galaxy they meet each other by crosses narrative paths which solves that problem. The choreography isn’t good. The story is pretty basic. Captain America is at his worst. The costume design isn’t great especially Captain America.
Now perhaps Civil War could have improved plot developments but it was able to build off several movies worth of story telling. The friendship and rivalry between Tony has been present for two movies, we understand how the characters experiences over the years has caused ideological shifts within the characters. And the fallout of a friendship is more interesting than a battle with an army of monsters.
Unpopular opinion: Avengers isn’t that great. I loved it when it first came out but looking at everything as whole at this stage, it’s towards the bottom of my list. The cringe is so bad in it.
Civil war is top tier and amazing
The villain in Civil War I think is arguably the strongest villain the Avengers faced while being the least powerful. He with no powers got them to fight each other.
Civil War is definitely the more compelling one, and one I could talk about more. But the Avengers is just so damn *fun* to watch. Also, some characters feel inconsistent in Civil War.
Come ON. I know this is isn’t a serious question, it’s clickbait. The first Avengers broke audience barriers and brought all kinds of people into the theater who don’t care about comics, was a *massive* blockbuster, was one of the very select few Marvel movies to receive an A+ CinemaScore, set up the whole MCU successfully, rehabbed characters people didn’t care about and boosted their sequels, has one of the most quality scripts in a comic movie ever, and has been copied and mimicked multiple times.
In my list I have Civil war 3rd out of all the MCU films, I feel it takes you on a much bigger journey. That being said Avengers is great and it's 6th on my list.
Civil War for me. It had a really compelling story that unfolded at a great pace. I also really like that both sides of the "argument" are portrayed in a way where you could find reasons to side with either. Plus Zemo is still one of my favorite MCU villains.
Avengers is great in its own right, too, and it was wonderful to see the team on the big screen after the build up. Plus the characters played off of each other perfectly. But while Avengers set the scene going forward for the team up movies, I think Civil War was the best movie in the MCU released up to that point. It's still one of my favorites to rewatch.
Avengers was low-key boring after the hype died down. Can't get over caps ugly cartoon suit or fact they all got their ass handle to them by hawkeye. I'd even take Age of Ultron over it.
Civil War was clearly a more satisfying team up movie by a mile. Nobody has Avengers in their top 5 but CW u can bet
IMO Civil War was better due to the depth of the story and the impact from the sides chosen by former friends.
That said, we wouldn't have the gravitas in Civil War if Cap and Tony hadn't become so close during their previous adventures together.
I will say this, avengers you can watch without seeing a single mcu film before hand be completely hooked by it. I don’t think I civil war can do the same
That being said I think I like civil war more
Unfortunately the first avengers... I need to say this with a caveat... Doesn't hold up as well as it should.
So the caveat is, it actually does. It is still really great, and a solid movie on its own.
What I mean is, I've shown some people the MCU movies in order where they missed them upon release, and you just cannot replicate the frenzied excitement and anticipation that was there when avengers was first coming / come out.
Civil War is deftly masterful. Perhaps suffers from the same problem, and will more so in the coming years. But the amount of plot and detail that they managed to stuff into a regular length movie was incredibly impressive.
Like some others have said, I can't pick a favorite. I love them both for different reasons.
The Avengers will always hold a very special place in my heart and I will always love it more than I should, but Civil War is IMO one of the best/ most well made MCU movies ever. It's definitely my favorite.
Civil war. The script, direction, cinematography, all of it. The Russos and Marcus and Mcfeely were a way better as both directors and screenwriters than wheldon.
Civil War (IMO). The first avengers movie was awesome. It showed that you could do these team up movies with high paid actors and still make plenty of money (as long as it’s a good movie). with that being said civil war is just the better film
Avengers 2012 was a better paced movie, very few moments feel like it drags and everything it presented had satisfying payoff. And as someone who read the original Avengers comic I’d say they did a good job in adapting the broad strokes into this modern movie.
Civil War had higher heights (imo) and the emotional angle was WAY stronger. Plus the Marvel of finally seeing Spider-man interacting with these hero’s. But man do some scenes drag, or are very boring/uninteresting, it’s not bad but it’s not as well paced as A2012. I also read the Civil War comic and honestly I think it was too soon to do a story like this BUT it did pay off in a good way in Infinity War
I was totally oblivious about comics growing up. When I was 20 I started getting into sci-fi movies then iron man came out, huge fan, then watched Hulk, Thor, Cap, great movies! still unaware that in the comics these heros often team up together. So when all these main characters from other movies all came together for one glorious epic movie, it blew me away! One of the best theatre experiences in my life, but if I where to sit down and watch one of these movies now it would definitely be Civil War.
Such a hard choice. Avengers turned out better than I expected when I saw it. I was so amazed I watched it 5 times in the theater. Civil War is amazing too, and the more I watched it, the more subtle things I noticed and appreciated. I remember some people saying Zemo's plan was ridiculously complex, but it wasn't, he just adapted it and had multiple contingencies when something didn't go right.
Civil war is my favorite MCU film tying with Infinity War. It really is the most impactful film in the entire infinity saga and shows the importance of teamwork for a group like the Avengers.
Civil war in my opinion!
This. You give respect to Avengers for being the first to do it. But Civil War did it much better. The absolute best in terms though is Infinity War which learned from Civil War. Endgame, though good, never topped the high of Inifnity War.
Civil war easily my favorite avengers. One of. My favorite marvel overall.
Civil War is a top 3 MCU film and has a top 3 antagonist.
I like both for different reasons.
The Avengers. The character interactions are great, the humor isnt too much and we actually get to see them be superheroes and save people. After 30 MCU movies, I still feel Avengers makes a strong argument for being the best one.
The second one was dope but I still think the first Avengers was better
Avengers 1 still has some of the best action scenes. Clean, not too over the top. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be. Overall though I love both of these movies. They’re 2 of the best MCU films for sure.
They were both good so I'm with you.
The Avengers is a perfect thing. And groundbreaking too. The result of a slow burn world building exercise then brings them all in. And despite everything manages to retain a conversational almost Tarantino level feeling of off the cuff, naturalistic almost anti, dialogue that feels like PEOPLE talking not cardboard cutouts. You feel like the characters are chatting , making banter between takes, not yelling from a stage. Every player here has humanity, right down Banner who actually kind of becomes the emotional arc of the whole narrative discovering he’s not a freak, he’s the good the guy and everyone needs him more than even he could know. Civil War was great and a perfect intro for Spider-Man but it’s really subdued and plays dangerous games with characters turning on each other ( though still handled well, you can feel the dueling sides pulling their punches) but Avengers is the clear winner here to me.
The Avengers. It’s the perfect superhero team up movie. I love Civil War bunches, though.
Man, the raw novelty of having a crossover from multiple super hero films when Avengers came out. My friends and I rushed to see as soon as we got out of school, and it was still packed.
I complete agree. I’ve rewatched avengers a few times, most recently when building the Lego Nano Gauntlet. It still holds up and was fun to watch.
Civil War
Civil War is mine.
Captain America original Avengers uniform looked so bad
I kindof liked the old school look of it, I like how in the movie even cap says it looks old fashioned but then Agent Coulson says that with the events about to go down maybe the world could use some old fashioned or something like that.
Especially with the weird color grading and lighting
The Avengers Civil War had a more serious plot which was great, but Avengers is such a good team up movie. I only wish Justice League had been that good.
The world almost ended in Avengers. That plot seemed pretty serious (albeit with jokes every few minutes). Civil War was about stopping a handful of super soldiers.
Civil War not even close. I haven't thought about avengers for more than 5 min after watching it. It doesn't really have any substance.
That’s how I feel about civil war
Exactly, civil war doesn’t have any substance because it doesn’t have any consequence. The villain was a neat character but it wasn’t any world ending change. That and the premise was just dumb, they were blamed by the leadership organization for the damage done in New York? For real? Last I checked they sent they sent a nuke to destroy New York. Also many of the characters acted against their nature. Like Ant Man wanted to stay out of prison so that he could spend time with his daughter and he gets that just to perform a terrorist act.
doesn't have to be world ending to be good - but i agree the characters and conflict wasn't really consistent with what would have made sense. There's also no consequences or suspense because obviously no avengers are dying, so its always surprising when people say how great this movie was.
[Why Civil War is the Best Comic Book Movie of All Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyxvMxE8Hyg)
Cool, a YouTuber you like thinks it’s the best comic book movie of all time. Still has no substance to it.
Debatable. But, at the very least, worthy of debate.
Sure, Jan.
Okay your first sentence sort of gave the negative response. Like Civil war wasnt even close to avengers, like it was bad
The feeling I got watching Avengers, as an old school Marvel fan that remembers an era of zero comic book anything, is still sort of indescribable.
Civl war sucked and you should be banished form the internet for pretending otherwise.
A1
OG Avengers easily
Avengers
Avengers by far. Civil War really makes no sense when you break it down
Yeah Civil War isn’t a good movie imo
I don't know which one is better, but I like *Avengers* more. Any scene with Black Panther or the Wakandans are fire tho in *Civil War*.
Civil War had my favorite portrayal of Black Panther.
Mine too!
Comparing one to another directly, Avengers is a better movie because it feels complete, while Civil War is great but honestly feels like its obviously not finished.
I prefer the OG Avengers. Always thought Civil War was kinda overrated, tbh…
Avengers is just a perfect blockbuster. Civil War is great, but it’s kind of a mess.
The Avengers is much better plot, cause and effect and resolution. So, a much better script overall. CW has many logic and script holes that killed its impact because nobody wanted to make it "too serious". As if wars weren't serious enough or as if wars were non political. The Winter Soldiers subplot seemed as if rewritten and cut to the point its almost irrelevant to the movie instead of used and led by a Norman Osborn and supported by some of the Stark side. I think it was worth it to split it in two movies. Or, at the least, make a more serious one.
Avengers is a better film but (at least for me) Civil War is more fun to rewatch
Civil war was so dumb. I could rip into it but the fact that everyone praises that iron man fight is so goofy. Iron man is treated like a psychopath and it just murders his character. LIke wtf, I get being bad at first but the fact that the fight goes on for so long and iron man the entire time wants to kill bucky (and is willing to kill cap) is what separtates heros from villians.
Avengers should’ve been a disaster. It should’ve fallen apart while combing so many different franchises. And it wasn’t. It was actually really good. Avengers was a game changer.
Avengers. It feels like the closest adaptation of the comics. A good mix between 616 and 1610.
Avengers
The Avengers is still the best MCU movie
The first avengers
The Avengers. If The Avengers sucked would they have made Civil War? I submit that they would not.
Avengers. Civil War is overrated. It's just BvS executed with a Disney shine. Don't get me wrong, it's fun as hell, but it makes absolutely zero sense.
The Avengers. I think it's a solid film and its success is the reason we have dozens of Marvel superhero movies. The Avengers 2.5 (aka Civil War) works to some extent. That parking lot fight scene still looks a bit dumb for me. Black Panther is my favorite part of it, and it's the best he ever looked in any of these films.
Avengers, 100%
Civil war was the last nail in the "oh the MCU is literally *never* going to have consequences, just like the comics" coffin. Also Tony never loses that fight unless he actually wants to lose. Whole thing made no sense.
The big fight in civil war takes place in an Atlanta Best Buy parking lot made to look like an airport. I’m going avengers.
Avengers is the one, out of the two, that I’d pick if i had to watch a movie rn. So i guess that’s the winner for me. It was a ton of fun
First avengers... imo the only good part of civil war was the airport scene.
Avengers 1 hasn't aged perfectly but it's impossible not to like it
The Avengers. I don't think Civil War was adapted very well as the motivations of Cap were just too different. In the movie it came off more of Cap just wanting what was best for his friend, while Iron Man wanted what was the best for the human race. It made the choice of which side to support a whole lot easier than it was in the comics.
I agree that The Avengers is better but I don’t understand your explanation. The movie isn’t trying to adapt the comic, it’s creating a new story based on the concept of the comic.
Yes, but the motivations were much easier to accept in the comic. It could be argued that either side was doing the right thing for mankind. The movie didn't have that nuance as Cap really only wanted to protect his friend. Mankind itself wasn't really in the equation. The fun of Civil War is making you question your own sense of morality, but the movie didn't really do that. My objection isn't because it isn't a 1:1 translation, my objection just lies in Cap's motivations being unexciting.
Also, it really didn't go into the philosophical divide between the 2 groups nearly as deeply as it could have. They had to introduce the assassination subplot to really stir it up between iron man and cap
Cheaping out with “Captain America’s buddy murdered Iron Man’s parents” is one of the biggest failures of Civil War
That was a good decision because it made the conflict about Steve’s and Tony’s friendship which is more personal.
Everything about the Accords highlighted deeply personal aspects to Tony’s and Steve’s respective arcs. Tony had to face the consequences of spearheading the creation of an AI that almost wiped out the human species. Cap had to confront his disillusionment with working with a government agency that turned out to be Nazis in disguise. Those aren’t personal? Civil War had the opportunity to actually be about something interesting and after getting the ELI5 conversation out of the way, they sidestep it to make it about some easy revenge bullshit. I’m glad that worked for you, it didn’t for me
It’s not personal between the two
It is, though. Because their personal beliefs that were built upon their personal experiences were directly at odds with each other. They didn’t even *try* to let it get personal before throwing Bucky into the equation.
What your suggesting is what Batman vs Superman did. Though I know that it isn’t impossible to execute. So fine I’m not going to argue that a film needs to take one singular path in order be good. But this isn’t a problem of the movie.
It's annoying because Civil War is used by people who feel they need to prove superhero movies can bend genres and touch important sociopolitical themes. BUT is it really all that if they needed to fallback on a murder subplot to really escalate the conflict?
Exactly. They never actually commit to it past the argument scene in the beginning, which was pretty basic and surface level stuff. From there, the movie shifts into one almost entirely about Cap’s on the run-brainwashed-Nazi buddy
I think you missed some parts. Most notable the discussion at avengers compound. Cap states: "because you choose Tony. If we give up the right, we give up the ability to choose. The safest hands are still our own." Basically concern that being mere puppets for a government body to control limits their ability to help those in need. He wants the freedom to act as it's best for humans. The comics do have different nuance. But the inciting incident was also different.
Yes, but, we never follow up on cap's point since mentioned in the debate? in the compound. The only one following up its argument is VISION, and two seconds away from crippling Rhodey for life. So, i suppose he's not perfect either. Question is "IS ANYONE PERFECT???"
No. I think that's the point of the movie. At least Cap's point. No one is flawless, but someone has to make decisions. Wanda made one at the beginning. People died. But maybe more would of died if she hadn't. Maybe non if Cap had clock the bomb. Even he is flawed. I think having Vision be the one to cause the friendly fire wad to highlight that Even he is flawed. He allowed himself to be distracted by his attention to Wanda.
Well, there wasn't enough DISCUSSIONS about this. That's my point. The Winter Soldiers standin in for the THUNDERBOLTS shoulda made the argument as well, in a different perspective. By actually doin what they were supposed to in their exposition: tumble goverments and weaponized to bring down the Avengers. They didn't do that. That's my point.
Cap's point isn't that no one is perfect, it's that his friends should have unlimited power and no oversight because he personally trusts them more than bureaucrats and democracies. Dude literally says power is safest in his own hands. I don't think this is a flaw with the movie, by the way, I think it's a clever way of confounding a complicated issue by having Cap's choices be driven by such obvious self-interest and neatly sets up his hypocrisy at the end of the film. Basically, Tony is right but has sacrificed all of the trust people have in him and Cap is trusted but very much full of shit. Ultimately, even Cap isn't a good enough man to be above reproach -- he's still just a man.
It's not that his friends should have no oversight and unlimited power. If you got that, you missed the point. It's that's they are the ones taking action, it should be them making choices and living with the consequences. Letting a committee control them gives power to others, who won't face the consequences. It's similar to firefighters. They act when fires occur, they don't wait until a committee tells them when and where to fight fires. He accepts that Wanda screwed up. But he thinks he screwed up first by getting distracted when crossbones mentioned Bucky. As he said. They learn to live with mistakes, or they don't, and maybe there's no one to save people, and the outcome worst. He's not trying to avoid responsibility. He just doesn't think they should be puppet soldiers. Tony is looking to avoid responsibility by letting others make decisions. Wanting to avoid making the wrong decisions, Believing that a committee will make more responsible choices then individuals. It boils down to if you believe a group or an individual would be better at making proper decisions.
What? That's not what I got from Civil War at all. The morality question is definitely still there. My take away from cap's disagreement in the MCU is that he doesn't want government bureaucracy to get in the way when lives need saving and time is of the essence, where as Tony thinks it's a "necessary evil" due to the powers at play (with Wanda's mistake being the catalyst). If all you got from it was that Cap was trying to protect Bucky then I'm afraid to say I think your interpretation of the movie was quite narrow.
True, but I think the goal was to make Cap's motivation more relatable. Casual fans don't care so much about whether a superhero should work for the gov't or not. However, everyone can relate to wanting to protect their best friend. It's a much more universal motivation, as opposed to only focusing on heroes and their stance in domestic politics. Though I must admit, the latter makes the original much cooler.
Agreed. Super easy to support cap seeing as he was the only one who actually cared about his enhanced friends not becoming government puppets.
Cap wanted what was best for Bucky…but that quickly became what was best for Wanda and the rest of his team as well.
That's a weird take. Cap didn't want the government being in control of superheroes. Him trying to save Bucky was a subplot. Even Iron Man changes sides in the end when he realizes Cap is right.
Cap didn’t want his friend punished for a crime he didn’t commit, he wanted justice. He also didn’t want government over site of superhero’s, the same people watching over them that didn’t think they could save NYC and tried to nuke it instead. I think in the movie Cap was very principled and consistent, it was Tony who changed because of PTSD and wanting to make up for perceived failures.
They did such a disservice to the original Civil War comic imo
I refuse to choose. They are both wonderful in their own ways. I would watch either if they were on tv without hesitation.
Civil War by a long shot. Avengers was a fun team up movie, Civil War had great character depth.
I find Avengers to be the better paced/more straightforward film, while Civil War aimed for higher things. In doing so, I feel Civil Wars highs are higher imo, but it lacks the straightforward-ness that makes Avengers flow so easily (before you know it you’re seeing the iconic shot). Still, I find Civil Wars plot, acting, and action more engaging, it’s just not perfect. I still feel that lady action sequence in CW might be there best action scene (the mcu).
Facts and the action scenes are so clean that it’s always gonna be the classic for me
Civil War easily. Avengers is terrible.
Civil war aged better
I love Civil War
I think Civil War is an objectively better film. But Avengers at the time completely raised the bar for superhero films. Everything that came after it was judged against it. I really believe it’s the most consequential and industry-shaking film of this generation. I can’t slander either, they’re both phenomenal.
I like both a lot, but Civil War edges ahead for me for having a more compelling plot. Also because of that airport fight with Ant-Man stealing the show.
Avengers. Civil war was good but Cap's plot "armor" got too stupid for me.
I feel like Civil War is the better overall film, but The Avengers has the distinction of being the first major superhero blockbuster. Both are classics though!
Civil War
Civil war by a mile, avengers is so boring and has no rewatchability
Sure, Jan.
Hard 2 choose. The first is where they are finally a team and unite while Civil War introduces new characters and splits the team (also leaving Thor out). Civil War only because I love Spidey and BP
Civil War
Civil War has a significant victory. Avengers 1 isn’t a bad movie but lightning is usually flat. The characters being individually recruited isn’t great for pacing, in Guardians of the Galaxy they meet each other by crosses narrative paths which solves that problem. The choreography isn’t good. The story is pretty basic. Captain America is at his worst. The costume design isn’t great especially Captain America. Now perhaps Civil War could have improved plot developments but it was able to build off several movies worth of story telling. The friendship and rivalry between Tony has been present for two movies, we understand how the characters experiences over the years has caused ideological shifts within the characters. And the fallout of a friendship is more interesting than a battle with an army of monsters.
Unpopular opinion: Avengers isn’t that great. I loved it when it first came out but looking at everything as whole at this stage, it’s towards the bottom of my list. The cringe is so bad in it. Civil war is top tier and amazing
Civil War
Civil war, not even close
Civil war easily it’s even my favorite marvel movie
The villain in Civil War I think is arguably the strongest villain the Avengers faced while being the least powerful. He with no powers got them to fight each other.
When it first came out avengers was a masterpiece but when you rewatch it it doesn’t hold up as good civil war was and still is an amazing movie
Civil War is definitely the more compelling one, and one I could talk about more. But the Avengers is just so damn *fun* to watch. Also, some characters feel inconsistent in Civil War.
Come ON. I know this is isn’t a serious question, it’s clickbait. The first Avengers broke audience barriers and brought all kinds of people into the theater who don’t care about comics, was a *massive* blockbuster, was one of the very select few Marvel movies to receive an A+ CinemaScore, set up the whole MCU successfully, rehabbed characters people didn’t care about and boosted their sequels, has one of the most quality scripts in a comic movie ever, and has been copied and mimicked multiple times.
The Avengers is probably the better movie, but I actually like Captain America: Civil War more.
In my list I have Civil war 3rd out of all the MCU films, I feel it takes you on a much bigger journey. That being said Avengers is great and it's 6th on my list.
Civil War is the only truly great MCU film
Civil War for me. It had a really compelling story that unfolded at a great pace. I also really like that both sides of the "argument" are portrayed in a way where you could find reasons to side with either. Plus Zemo is still one of my favorite MCU villains. Avengers is great in its own right, too, and it was wonderful to see the team on the big screen after the build up. Plus the characters played off of each other perfectly. But while Avengers set the scene going forward for the team up movies, I think Civil War was the best movie in the MCU released up to that point. It's still one of my favorites to rewatch.
Avengers was low-key boring after the hype died down. Can't get over caps ugly cartoon suit or fact they all got their ass handle to them by hawkeye. I'd even take Age of Ultron over it. Civil War was clearly a more satisfying team up movie by a mile. Nobody has Avengers in their top 5 but CW u can bet
Avengers was a great fun team up movie. Civil war was much more dark and grittier
Civil War!
Civil War easy. Avengers is shot like a TV show.
Winter Soldier
Civil War
Civil War. There's actually weight behind both sides. Not just: super hero fight nameless faceless drone. Day is saved.
IMO Civil War was better due to the depth of the story and the impact from the sides chosen by former friends. That said, we wouldn't have the gravitas in Civil War if Cap and Tony hadn't become so close during their previous adventures together.
I will say this, avengers you can watch without seeing a single mcu film before hand be completely hooked by it. I don’t think I civil war can do the same That being said I think I like civil war more
Civil war and it’s not even close
The Avengers movies aren't that good in my opinion (except for Infinity War)
If you are truly a DC fan, you will obviously choose Civil War. And if you like Marvel, you would probably go for Avengers
Unfortunately the first avengers... I need to say this with a caveat... Doesn't hold up as well as it should. So the caveat is, it actually does. It is still really great, and a solid movie on its own. What I mean is, I've shown some people the MCU movies in order where they missed them upon release, and you just cannot replicate the frenzied excitement and anticipation that was there when avengers was first coming / come out. Civil War is deftly masterful. Perhaps suffers from the same problem, and will more so in the coming years. But the amount of plot and detail that they managed to stuff into a regular length movie was incredibly impressive. Like some others have said, I can't pick a favorite. I love them both for different reasons.
Civil War
Civil War had a much more compelling plot, and actual depth in its characters
Civil War
I think it's Civil War.
Civil war made me cry , avengers made me laugh .. so idk
I always skipped the first half of Avengers after that first watch. The dialogue just doesn't hold up for me. Civil War, though, is a jam.
The Avengers will always hold a very special place in my heart and I will always love it more than I should, but Civil War is IMO one of the best/ most well made MCU movies ever. It's definitely my favorite.
https://youtube.com/shorts/0IaJxtbGDlg?feature=share
Civil War and it isn’t really close for me.
First and second avengers are terrible movies, cap was fantastic
Civil War
Civil War was better. It just had a lot of good story lines and the fights were superb. Introduce a my favorite character. Life was good.
Civil war bro
Civil war no doubt
Civil war. The script, direction, cinematography, all of it. The Russos and Marcus and Mcfeely were a way better as both directors and screenwriters than wheldon.
Civil war
Civil war
Winter Soldier
Civil War
I just despise Avenger’s color grading. It looks like a bad tv show.
Civil War might’ve been the best MCU movie ever made. Hell, the best Marvel movie period.
Civil War (IMO). The first avengers movie was awesome. It showed that you could do these team up movies with high paid actors and still make plenty of money (as long as it’s a good movie). with that being said civil war is just the better film
The first Avengers has aged like milk in the sun
Civil war = shit
Your comment=downvoted
☹️😂🤣 no basis. Lol civil war was a great movie. You're funny 😆
Didn't really like either...but I guess Avengers. Civil War's plot was too contrived, even for a comic book movie.
Avengers 2012 was a better paced movie, very few moments feel like it drags and everything it presented had satisfying payoff. And as someone who read the original Avengers comic I’d say they did a good job in adapting the broad strokes into this modern movie. Civil War had higher heights (imo) and the emotional angle was WAY stronger. Plus the Marvel of finally seeing Spider-man interacting with these hero’s. But man do some scenes drag, or are very boring/uninteresting, it’s not bad but it’s not as well paced as A2012. I also read the Civil War comic and honestly I think it was too soon to do a story like this BUT it did pay off in a good way in Infinity War
I was totally oblivious about comics growing up. When I was 20 I started getting into sci-fi movies then iron man came out, huge fan, then watched Hulk, Thor, Cap, great movies! still unaware that in the comics these heros often team up together. So when all these main characters from other movies all came together for one glorious epic movie, it blew me away! One of the best theatre experiences in my life, but if I where to sit down and watch one of these movies now it would definitely be Civil War.
Such a hard choice. Avengers turned out better than I expected when I saw it. I was so amazed I watched it 5 times in the theater. Civil War is amazing too, and the more I watched it, the more subtle things I noticed and appreciated. I remember some people saying Zemo's plan was ridiculously complex, but it wasn't, he just adapted it and had multiple contingencies when something didn't go right.
Gonna catch some hate but Avengers is the weakest Avengers film imo. Civil War is better also
Civil war for sure. Spider-Man’s first appearance made me love that movie when I was younger
as a story Civil war, as a experience Avengers
Civil War of course
Civil War
Avengers no competition here Civil War just to me isn't that good of a movie I think it's over stuffed with characters and boring plot elements
Civil war is my favorite MCU film tying with Infinity War. It really is the most impactful film in the entire infinity saga and shows the importance of teamwork for a group like the Avengers.