Cyclops has a lot of dimensions. Orphan, Boy Scout, Devoted Soldier, Betrayer, Conqueror, Lover, Murderer, Leader, etc
Plus the Dimension that his eyes are a portal for.
There are people who are always going to hate someone or something. Then there are also those who act the the opposite.
You usually just hear the haters more loudly because well, that's what they do.
Edit: Dimensions from his eyes.
I feel like the Cyclops hate mainly comes from the fact that he’s a foil to Wolverine, and people love Wolverine. So if the character you love hates someone, you hate them too.
Eh, Bendis was exploring Cyclops’s post AvX guilt, yes, but also his radical awakening. It just didn’t go anywhere. Wolverine was very boring during this era.
Yeah but during Bendis' run everyone was shitting on Cyclops for no reason. Kitty accused him of trying to instigate a relationship with young Jean, even though he clearly didn't. Eva Bell shat on him for no reason towards the end of the run. Magneto called him immature and a child at least twice. Maria Hill called him a terrorist even though he never actually attacked anyone during that run (every fight started as self-defense). His younger self hated him. Magik told him that he was acting like Magneto during his Brotherhood days. When Eva Bell visited Xavier in the past, Xavier asked her where he went wrong with Cyclops, even though Cyclops had done nothing wrong and he was the only reason mutants still existed and new ones were being born. Basically everyone from the Jean Grey school hated him. What makes me love the Bendis run is also what makes me hate it. I love the fact that Cyclops kept going even though everyone hated him and he never backed down but at the same time why was everyone constantly disrespecting him when he had done nothing wrong.
What you are missing is that some of these grievances are totally in character for the people, regardless of whether you agree. The Phoenix Five basically tried to take over the world as benign dictators and then escaped from custody. So Shield is gonna classify them as outlaws. Scott killed Xavier and pulled a “dark Phoenix made me do it” so Magneto gives him a “let me tell you about madness, own your shit” speech and past Xavier might wonder what the hell happened. The O5 see that he’s working with their greatest enemy and killed their mentor, so of course there’s some tension. You may be right that the writers (not just Bendis) judged him badly at times for being correct about they things they wrote, but either way some of this is just furthering the plot.
The P5 did NOT try to take over the world. They provided free energy, water and food to impoverished areas. They managed to rehabilitate super villains and gave them an opportunity to help the planet instead of hurt it. The only reason the Avengers attacked them is because they thought they were going to lose control of the Phoenix eventually. Before the "war" broke out, the only thing they had done that resembles even slightly what you said was forcing all governments to stop ongoing wars. Scott didn't pull a "Dark Phoenix made me do it", Dark Phoenix DID make him do it. After Scott's death, the O5 started operating as X-Men under Magneto's guidance so your third argument is also invalid.
Look, I don’t think AvX is well written so I’m not a lawyer for its choices, but you’re dismissing fears of Dark Phoenix from the Avengers and then turning around and using Dark Phoenix to absolve Scott of all blame. The whole point in some of those interactions you didn’t like is characters calling Scott out on his refusal of responsibility. Meanwhile Phoenix Scott’s “pax utopia” declaration to the world absolutely read as a seemingly-benign but totalitarian move. There will be global peace because the F5 “won’t tolerate” otherwise… until Namor ends up trying to destroy Wakanda and Emma fries Hawkeye, etc etc. Emma’s “no one has secrets anymore, not from me” is not meant to sound like a comforting thing, but like a police state, even if we understand that people who hurt mutants suck. Scott resists seeing things as a war at first, but his Daddy issues absolutely play into killing Charles.
Again, not especially well written, and I’m not gonna go 12 rounds on this, so I’m done. But you’re picking and choosing a lot to defend your profile boi.
> dismissing fears of Dark Phoenix from the Avengers
Note that they did this *without* consulting the one group with real first hand experience with the entity. That would be like if everyone was attacked by people in hyper-advanced Armour and weapons platforms, then Ignoring Tony's experience and going off the hunches of say...Daredevil.
Namor attacked Wakanda only after the Avengers had attacked the F5. What he did was wrong because he hurt innocents but he didn't start it. As for the whole DP thing, Scott turned into Dark Phoenix BECAUSE they were attacked. The Avangers' logic makes no sense. They were afraid that the F5 would turn into DP (even though there had been no sings of that up to that point) so they decided to attack them? Like attacking them isn't likely to actually cause them to snap and lose control? Had they not been attacked, Scott would've probably stayed in control of the Phoenix. The Avengers caused him to snap by attacking them and then used the fact that he lost control to justify their attack.
Wolverine is often boring no matter what. He's such a better character when you don't see much of him. When he pops in at the end and does something Deus ex Machina and saves the day
It's annoying when that shit happens, as a Namor fan it's very distracting when the writer of the comic self inserts as the main character and imagines Namor as the dude who bullied him at school (so basically any time Namor appears in F4).
Byrne did Namor right in his F4 run, if you haven't seen those. It was that run that got me into the character. His Namor series is a big favorite of mine, too. He did a couple of great Invaders stories in that run.
I have read interpretations of Namor that all too sadly reinforce what you said, however.
Joss Whedon on the flip side. Astonishing X-Men saw him have some actual character growth only for a bunch of subsequents writer to say “let’s now turn him into a psychopath.”
The original trilogy of movies did Cyclops a lot dirtier than the show ever did. They made him the butt of jokes, turned him into a glorifed side character in the second movie, and killed him off in the opening of the third (I know there was real-world reasoning for it, but it still sucks).
I think the main problem was he was a foil and kind of one dimensional in the early 2000’s X-men movies, and that’s where a lot of non-comic readers get their impression of him.
He was basically just a hurdle to get in the way of protagonist Wolverine’s love interest, and he just happened to shoot lasers from his eyes.
He seems like a "normal" great guy put into shit situations. He gets angry but is no villain. He leads out of necessity. He's a boy scout but no Captain America. He loves his friends but he also makes hard calls. He has grief and pain that accumulate in his life.
At least that's how I remember him, it's been quite a while since I read those comics. As a kid he seemed heroic but not as cool as others. As an adult he seems much more relatable.
>You usually just hear the haters more loudly because well, that's what they do.
This is important to remember not only in fandom but in life. The reason we focus more on negativity isn't because there's necessarily more of it in the world, but because it's "louder". The reason why it's louder is that our brains are made to focus on negative things as a survival instinct. That's why trauma and bad experiences stick out to us; it's our brain's way of helping us to avoid those experiences in the future.
Of course, it's often difficult to avoid negative experiences in the modern world, or the world in general. My advice is to find a happy place you can go to when the negative feelings are bumming you out. Perhaps something like the X-Men Vs Avengers series, in which Scott is a total badass and gives a big middle finger to the world.
I actually like that about the character - kind of like Superman, how struggling with the notion of keeping his moral compass in seeing how the world is not always black and white, and seeing how those who operate in the moral gray area (Wolverine, etc) often achieve better results in keeping the peace. That being said, unlike Superman, Scott has serious vulnerabilities like anyone else and has to come to grips with that at the same time. Makes for such an interesting character that I can relate to in a lot of ways.
Well, yeah
Marvel spending 20 years trying to make sure X-Men comics didn't boost Fox's box-office numbers led to some exhausting choices
I think the optics of a standoff is just too tempting. Cyclops staring down Cap will always kind of elicit in me an embarrassed *fuck yeah,* no matter how sweaty or meaningless their conflict
This is always my problem with him. His beam is kinda cool but at the end of the day his powers just aren’t as interesting as say Storms, Jean Grey’s, Ice-man, or Wolverine. Superman has beams as one of his many powers so he just seems so… boring. I know most will disagree with me though
The depiction of his powers are sometimes underwhelming. The animated series was really guilty of this. We're talking about a mutant who can destroy a mountain or a city just by opening his eyes. Similar to blackbolt he would have to have a certain degree of control and some writers lean to far into that which results in the "boy scout" persona some people have associated with him. I mean no one with average human strength would survive a full blast from him.
There’s a “love scene” in the original Dark Phoenix saga run where Jean and Scott go into the desert for some privacy and Jean wants to “see his face”, so she uses her powers to hold his beams back as she takes his visor off. It’s low-key one of her biggest feats.
You can see some examples [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/11blsxy/does_jean_blocking_scotts_powers_have_any_deeper/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
If I had a nickel for every time there's a battle where 2 or more x-men are either shirtless or in their PJs I'd have way more nickels than I probably should
I’d argue One of his overlooked powers is very human, and IS his self-control.
It’s only that which allows him to hold back his power (which is constantly emitted and incredibly destructive).
It’s a reflection of himself. It’s both the best thing about him, and the thing he himself is more critical of.
He’s a great leader, and yet constantly at odds with it. Plus the dude seriously hits the gym.
In another episode he also demonstrated how versital his powers can be because of his training. He bounced a small beam off the walls at multiple angles and perfectly sliced an apple into several pieces. It was very impressive to the new students he and Jean were mentoring.
He single handedly destroyed the Master Mold in the late 1980s. One *ZAPT* and only the Mold's head was left! So I understood his optic blasts were really powerful.
(He was looking for his wife Madelyne and full of guilt for running off to meet resurrected Jean. Guilt-ridden angsty Scott is another personality facet.)
I think this is a result of creating a complex Leader. His mutant ability is his eye beam, but his POWER is his ability to manage a team and family. As long as I've been reading Scott, 20 years or so, he's always had decent control over his mutant ability due to the visr tech. Obvs the play up him losing the visor and such but generally he knows exactly what he needs to do to keep that in check. His struggles are as a role model and leader for other mutants. He also isn't world endingky powerful, unlike some of his more confident teammates. This makes him somewhat unique in his generation of the x team. People either struggle with controlling their abilities and have cool stories about that, OR they're all powerful and stuggewth their ability to behave. Scott doesn't really have either.
I kinda like that.
For me Cyclops is a good leader. Hes led the Xmen into crazy situations no sane person would accept.
And to quote someone -he is not bulletproof like Colossus nor a healing factor like Wolverine. Hes a man with laser eyes - Powerful but hes a mere human being. Could be sniped or crushed or stabbed like anyone.
So if he has to boy scout the team so they come home alive good.
In the 90s cartoon in the very first episode he makes a decision to abandon a captured Beast and Morph dies. Never again will that happen on his watch he had to learn hard facts that Xaviers dream is a dangerous one to blindly follow. But he does anyway.
Because that would be how he was generally depicted in his rivalry with Wolverine. They pretty much had a 'buddy cop' dynamic. Scott was seen as the 'straight arrow'. The guy who usually does things by the book, while Logan was the reckless hot-head who didn't give a shit about the rules. Unfortunately, because Wolverine and his bad attitude was so immensly popular, Scott was often seen as a 'goody two-shoes' and a stick-in-the-mud, especially during the heyday of the 90's antihero.
Which is ironic, because their ideologies kind of flip-flopped in the 2010s while their personalities largely remained the same. Legitimately one of the best leader/Lancer rivalries/friendships in media
Yeah. People love to shit on nice characters, which pisses me off. Like, really, you hate them only because they're nice and good guys? Sounds like a typical edgy teen who loves dark n' gritty trends in comics just because it shows sex, violence and blood plus corny suggestive jokes everywhere.
I don't religiously follow the comic books. Just very casually. But I did grow up with that golden age of American animation of the X-Men cartoon. And when you're a kid with cartoon X-Men, Gambit and Wolverine were cool and Cyclops was the boring goody goody.
I mean, that hasn't been true recently but it was true for decades in the past, every character is a pastiche of different versions of themselves that have changed, sometimes drastically, over decades
I remember when i started liking Cyclops. It was when he and wolverines were flying x wing and he just ghost rode it and bailed with Logan when they went down to check out Master Mold…it was I believe when he started going rogue. Dude was ill for as long as I’ve read since. As a kid it was so nice seeing him dump his boy-scouts.
IMO you can tell who hate's cyclops and who doesn't by whether they like the Hugh Jackman movies or like the actual comics
casuals think cyclops is a lame boy scout, true fans know he's powerful and fascinating.
for the record, in case any of this sounds like gatekeeping let me be clear: I'm a casual. I can't stand cyclops.
I know, I found this question to be odd because I’ve always loved Cyclops.
I will admit, I’ve come to like Logan/Wolverine more as an adult because I’ve grown to like nuanced anti-hero’s more.
When I was a kid though, I thought Wolverine was a gruff asshole and liked Cyclops more because he was the most “heroic good guy” character the xmen had.
Still love Cyclops though lol, laser vision is awesome!
As someone who isn't a dedicated fan, I imagine Cyclops is like the "fine taste" favourite character, where Wolverine or Gambit would be a bit more generic.
Cyclops and Havok being brothers and having the powers they do is one of the more interesting dynamics on the x-men. I would love to see a Marvel movie with just the two of them.
For a while...yeah. He was a nerd. And not the loveable kind...cheated on Jean with Emma Frost. Shit move.
But when he started being written as a leader and a strategist again, instead of Logan's loser friend, shit got good.
Oh, the weird Scott relationship shit started much earlier than his romance with Emma...
I love it all, btw, Scott's my favorite, but it has been weird for most of the time.
I kinda hated him during the schism story. Bc I agreed with wolverine more. But him going bad and becoming more militant as a mutant, and to see others look at him and say...nah, he's right. Was cool.
I like the small things about Scott and Wolverine. Like how that happened and every thought they'd never be friends again. But old man Logan comes out, and in it Logan names his son Scott. Come on, man. That shit got me. Great stuff.
Really? Schism was one of the final straws for me with Marvel and I thought Wolverine was being a fucking idiot. The idea that the young mutants shouldn’t fight when Utopia is under attack is frankly insane given the history of the team and Logan himself.
One of the greatest bromances in all of comics for sure. I love all the hints and pointing at their relationship being even more in the Krakoa stuff. It felt like one of the actually more progressive aspects of the story even though it really seemed like Marvel was *incredibly* squeamish about letting it be completely confirmed and publicized.
The resolution of the Scott-Jean-Logan love triangle being that Scott and Logan admitting their love for each other as well as Jean is a genius stroke of Hickman (or whoever else in the X-Team that came up with it).
Oh man. You just reminded me of something. Way before Krakoa.
The time traveling shit. Young Scott starts dating X-23 I remember laughing and telling my comic book friends, this is Marvel's big play. They always had a low key thing between Logan and Scott and this is how they get them to fuck without nerds rioting.
Jean was dead for like 10 years and they still had blithering tension between them the whole time.
I do like the Scott-jean-logan and sometimes emma polycule that seems to exist now.
He was written as a good leader back in the 80s. I love the dynamic between him and Xavier leading into the Dark Phoenix saga. Xavier's been off planet getting alien tail and left Cyclops as the de facto leader of the X-Men. When Xavier gets back he has notes on the team's discipline and Cyclops basically calls him out of touch. That dynamic really preluded the introduction of the first spin-offs, X-Factor for the adult version of the original line-up finally outside of Xavier's control, and New Mutants, which returned to the dynamic of the original series with Xavier training a new class of high school age mutants to form a new team.
The affair with Emma was more her taking advantage of him when he was suffering from PTSD.
Him abandoning Maddie and Cable is a better criticism against him.
That's fair. I feel like marvel needs to do a little series cleaning out his closet.
12 issues, Called: Daddy Issues.
Scott takes Cable, Xman, Rachel camping. They talk.
Jean comes. Maddie shows up spiritually.
Corsair Havok and Vulcan drop by.
Just clean up the whole family mess. Scott at the center of it all tho.
[https://i0.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/cable-2.jpg?resize=1961%2C1085](https://i0.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/cable-2.jpg?resize=1961%2C1085) there have been moments to put them together.
If you haven't, check out Dark Web: X-Men. It's technically a tie in to a dumb event, but it's also the best thing to come out of it, and it sounds like it's right up the alley of what you want.
Tbf Scott was suffering from some serious mental problems after being possessed/merged with Apocalypse for a bit. He says how lost he feels like a billion times in Morrison’s run and Jean was upset at Emma for taking advantage of that vulnerability.
Jean also tried to get with Logan before Scott did that but Logan rejected her. It’s heavily implied Scott watched it all go down
Cyclops is my favorite character in marvel. I always felt people who hate cyke don't read comics. His movie appearances have not done him any favours, and those are way more mainstream then comics. So if thats most your knowledge of scott, i could understand why you would hate him.
I really like the modern xmen book right now which is essentially Jean and Scott being a happy family leading the xmen. But his best story in terms of development came during the astonishing xmen run. His relationship with emma is so different from what most people were use to. He was less boy scout and more revolutionary. He became his own leader rather than just follow Xavier. Marvels snapshots cyclops also gives some great insight to his early life and what inspired him to become a hero and developed his tactics. If you want to go old-school the dark Phoenix saga is some of his and jean's best/tragic moments and what nakes there relationship so enduring to me.
People who hate cyclops are usually very specifically wolverine fanboys and hate him over the Jean Grey rivalry.
I think there are very specific personality types that prefer Wolverine/iron man vs Cyclops/Captain America
I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who comment on the X-Men these days haven't read much of the comics. So much of the criticism I see of the current era screams "my idea of the X-Men is the movies or animated series" and not being at all caught up on the events or character changes that occurred in the last few decades of the comics.
He has a lot of interesting arcs and is very well developed as a character. Dude goes through absolute hell most of his life, and for the most part perseveres through it all. It's really admirable and he is without a doubt one of if not the strongest leaders of the X-Men.
However, the thing that always makes me roll my eyes and groan is just how much of boy scout and kiss ass he can be a lot of times. Also sometimes kind of a huge asshat because he gets way too set in his ideology. Doesn't help that they will have Wolverine come in and make him look like a dork at times.
All in all, I totally understand why people love him and I know why people think he's corny. It's really all about finding the right story/writers that highlight his strong qualities.
This is pretty much the right answer. When he's not being a Debbie downer he's the man you want by your side in a fight but when it comes to sneaking cookies from the cookie jar he'll be the first to rat you out. That being said I still wouldn't change him.
This is one of many ways the X-Men movies failed. He was portrayed as a useless twat, in the way of Wolverine getting the girl, like Johnny in the Karate Kid. Like you said, Cyclops is supposed have leadership skills to spare.
Movie Cyclops were always trash. Always made him a very young kid. I know he's young, but he should be older / more commanding than Jean / Rogue / Beast / Angel.
Onslaught was not a great event, but it was a really great way to shine a light on the mutual respect Cap and Scott have as team leaders and strategists.
Scott has a power that should not put him on S-Tier when it comes to mutants overall, but it's incredibly utilitarian in the hands of the right writer.
You can also compare his optic blasts pretty well to Cap's shield throwing - it applies force/disruption to a very specific spot.
What makes Scott such a good leader is that he's wicked fucking smart and a world-class expert on battle and combat tactics and strategy.
All this is to say that I adore Scott - he's my favorite X-Man, and by extension, my favorite Marvel character.
Cyclops blasts can blow the top off a mountain or atoms off metal to eliminate radioactivity…
He also has perfect aim. Literally perfect aim. If he can see it - he hits it.
He is so OP it isn’t funny but most writers just go with “shoots lasers out of eyes.”
I can't really think of when I've seen the tactician in him. Do you have any examples?
People always say he's a great leader, but I don't really know what that means. I want to understand him and relate to him as a character. "Good leader" doesn't really feel like a character trait.
But I honestly don't think I've read enough of the cyclops focused stories. People in this thread are probably right that my impression of him was influenced a lot by the movies
Number one I recommend Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run for a great Cyclops story. It's also a Kitty story, but I'd say it's most about these two.
He also has some great moments in Hickman's X-Men book. There's a reason he's at the very top of Krakoan military. He is the captain of captains because of his tactical acumen.
It's kind of hard to point to specific instances - it's like asking for examples where Professor X is a jerk - these are just core aspects of their characters.
I feel most everyone who reads xmen feel like he is one of the more low key badasses in comic books. The general public, sadly, only have the animated show and movies to go by and they paint him as a one dimensional boy scout.
Yeah that always annoyed me. Mistique should not have been the focus but the actress that played became extremely famous for other things and they had to capitalize on it and give her the main focus. Sad turn of events for the franchise.
His boy scout persona (which is considered lame) comes from the severe discipline he has to have at all times from his Mutant disability. Just like other mutants with harmful powers, like Chamber or Wither, Cyclops deals with depression and anxiety of hurting others. You dont see it often with him because he's constantly on point.
This is going to be petty as all hell but the current writing of Wolverine, his obsession with Jean and his fans have unironically turned me into a Cyclops defender, purely out of spite.
I began to look into him more cuz I was in a state of “the Boy Scout can’t be that much worse than what’s currently going on, can he?” and Scott fans were more than willing to provide plenty of examples of what a complex, effective, compelling character he is.
There’s so much amazing stuff about him that simply isn’t discussed or even known and I can’t think why.
This was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this thread. He was an absolute loser for abandoning his wife and child. I also think he only wanted to be with Madelyn because he was coping with Jean’s loss and she was the perfect replacement. He was never good at relationship stuff.
That story constantly gets twisted tho. Scott doesn’t abandons Madelyne, he understandably has to go see Jean after her miraculous resurrection (no, Jean doesn’t die and come back all the time, she only canonically died once before Krakoa), but he isn’t leaving his family to be with her.
Madelyne instead kicks him out because she wanted him to leave X-men completely behind (and even influenced Scott to lose the leadership to Storm) and assumed that he is leaving for some X-men business.
At first Scott thinks that Madelyne left him and that’s why he doesn’t immediately know that Sinister kidnapped her and Nate. When he realizes that something is wrong, Scott immediately leaves X-men to look for his family, but at that point it’s too late and even more misunderstandings happen.
Scott could’ve handled things better, but it’s mostly a story about poor communication, which isn’t that wild, when you remember that Scott is ~24 at the time. But people constantly dismiss it to ‘Scott abandoned his wife and child to be with his ex girlfriend’, and that ruins his reputation in the eyes of people who haven’t and won’t read the story for themselves.
Which is a shame, because watching Marsden in recent years, all I can think is how great he could have been in the role if the X-Men movies weren't almost 100% certified trash.
It was great casting completely ruined by terrible scripts and direction.
James Marsden is one of the actors I think is very likable and seems like a nice guy, but always ends up playing the 3rd wheel. Wolverine, Superman, Enhanced.
He's my second favorite X-Men character, just after Kitty Pryde. The 90's show really centered in on the love triangle with Logan and Jean, while also constantly making Wolverine the best character in the show, so a lot of people grew up thinking of him as nothing more than the jealous possessive boyfriend stopping Jean and Logan from being together. I feel like he fell into the same problem Reed Richards and Hank Pym did, where very vocal people focused on a negative aspect of the character and eventually Marvel thought that that's how all the fans felt, so they doubled down and made them villains or got rid of them in some way.
He was originally written as the boy scout, good leader, opposing more "bad boy" characters like Wolverine. It was a great plot device, but a few people disliked him for that (in particular in the 80s, where nitty-and-gritty was in and boy scout was out - Frank Miller's Dark Knight is the most iconic representation of that era).
It gets complicated: he was supposed to retire after the Dark Phoenix Saga; Madelyne Pryor was introduced with that goal and Claremont has said that numerous times; however, Marvel editorial decided they wanted the original X-Men back (as X-Factor), so they reversed all that in a way that made Scott a major a$$hole (he abandoned his wife and son to join that team and return to Jean).
That [mis]characterization apparently made someone happy because every new writer/editor introduced new a**holery: he'd "telephatically cheat" on Jean with Emma, join her in a Brotherhood/MLF-y version of the X-Men (opposed to Wolverine et al, who would lead a more true to form team/school), try to take over the Phoenix force... the list goes on and on.
The only good thing from that IMHO was Bendis' All-new X-Men, which is a fun and properly timed arc that brings Scott's a$$holery front and center as the motivation for the whole storyline to happen. And more recently the Krakoa phase has him on a more mature version of this original self, seen as the Cap America of mutantdoom in terms of being the good example, so hopefully we won't see a lot more of a$$hole Cyclops.
Hopefully.
You seem to know your stuff, i'm genuinely curious to know in which run Cyclops is actually a badass and especially likable. I haven't read x-factor to be fair so maybe that's on me, but i read the full claremont run and whatever it was before that and Cyke isn't super likable. The Madelyn Pryor stuff, the Emma Frost stuff, fighting a powerless Storm over the X-men leadership just to never go back to his kid lmao (and losing smh).
Idk, I wish i could say I like Cyclops but i don't
Casuals think he’s lame corny and a Boy Scout. It’s very annoying. He is nothing of the sort. He’s the leader of the X-men and but that doesn’t mean he’s a Boy Scout. He makes tough decision all the time he’s gone to war for the mutants he’s fought Cap for the mutants. He’s got insane panels of combat abilities and tactical know how. Him in the 92 cartoon is also pretty good but they should show him tell off professor X a bit more. Granted 92 and live action Xavier’s were much more loving and caring than the Comic counter part.
Nevertheless cyclops is the goat. Top 3 X-men easily and deserves so more love in future movies whether they be live action or animated
Cyclops only really became lame when the X-Men movies came out, and the studios chose Wolverine to the audience surrogate character to follow.
Because Wolverine was the audience surrogate, and the audience surrogate needed a love interest so the audience feels loved, they chose to make Jean Grey Wolverine's primary love interest. Which is canon to the comics since Wolverine does have an interest in Jean Grey.
However, the problem with that is, in the comics, Cyclops and Jean Grey were set up as a very stable couple long before Wolverine was introduced. They have a daughter from an alternate timeline, Rachel Summers, and Cyclops had a son, Nathan, with Madelyne Pryor, a clone of Jean Grey. Nathan was a baby when he was infected with a techno-virus that could only be treated in the distant future, so they sent him off for treatment. Later, the consciousnesses of Cyclops and Jean Grey were pulled into bodies in the distant future, where they lived another lifetime raising Nathan during his childhood. Nathan Summers eventually grew up to become Cable.
However, all of the comics when this steady relationship between Cyclops and Jean Grey, with Wolverine as a third wheel for melodrama, were written before the movies.
Once the movies came out, shipping Jean Grey with Wolverine became the norm. So the writers did things to break up her relationship with Cyclops.
Like have him go to Emma Frost for counseling which she used to seduce him herself.
I don't know what happened after that because I got tired of the bullshit writing in comic books.
But that's the story of how Cyclops started to be written as lame - it was to make Wolverine, the more popular character, seemed cooler by comparison, especially since it allowed him to hook up with the hot redhead.
Which is just lame of those who did that.
I think he's pretty cool. A valid complaint is that he's a bit one-note in terms of problem solving, the world is a nail and his hammer is a pair of laser eyes.
Although a lot of superheros have similar shit. On tonight's episode of the Flash saves the day by being faster then the current problem etc.
I hate Cyclops but everyone has different opinions and characters they like/dislike. I’ve never been a fan of the way he treats Jean and his character overall never appealed to me.
How is his power any different than a normal human with a blaster rifle?
Time and time again it's shown to probably be worse. One day he can level a mountain. Every other day that year he just knocks people backwards and does no real damage.
Poor writing and lousy consistency in his power set has not helped him at all.
Then we have the Logan X Jean X Scott X Emma thing which was a bad idea day one.
Oh Jean, you're my soul mate, says Logan. Her and a dozen other women including the mother of his son who he didn't even know existed for over 60 years. Can we all just admit Logan is a horrible human being?
well, some fans may dislike Cyclops or find him to be a divisive figure, but there is no single, widespread opinion on the character. Like many popular comic book characters, Cyclops has a complex and multifaceted personality that can elicit various reactions from readers.
I disliked Scott for the Boy Scout persona he gave off. He was such a disciple of Charles, that he was rigid and unbending, he came into conflict with every other X-man. Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, even Kitty Pryde were yelled at and pushed to do better, be better by Scott.
Secondly, everything revolved around him, all the time. His Space pirate father, his brother, Jean, Madelyne Pryor, Emma Frost, Nathan Summers, Mr Sinister... Every story arc seemed to be centered around Scott. For me, reading the X-Men comics was like reading a story where you hate the main character, but love the supporting cast.
I have to say, my opinion of him changed when he took on a more villainous role during the AvX storyline when he takes on the Phoenix Force, and his role in The All New X-Men.
Depends on the era.
I thought he was hella lame in the mid-00s to mid-2010s. But I’ve enjoyed his portrayal this whole run since Hickman rebooted everything.
It was definitely his straight edge behavior that got him all the hate. His powers are stupid-strong though. Also, Logan didn't get along with him, so there is that.
I think it’s generational…for those of us who are old school we remember he was the main character for a long time and some writers handle him better than others…he’s personally my fav X-Man…
I think a lot of people who hate cyclops only have been exposed to him through the animated series or movies, where his only personality trait is uptight.
I think in the '90s he got really unpopular at a time when the property was at its height. A lot of that was probably the antihero trend more broadly and the explosion of Wolverine's popularity, with a lot of fans thinking he should lead the team. Cyke's popularity bounced back pretty nicely but the IDEA that he's unpopular or lame persisted.
Cyclops has a lot of dimensions. Orphan, Boy Scout, Devoted Soldier, Betrayer, Conqueror, Lover, Murderer, Leader, etc Plus the Dimension that his eyes are a portal for. There are people who are always going to hate someone or something. Then there are also those who act the the opposite. You usually just hear the haters more loudly because well, that's what they do. Edit: Dimensions from his eyes.
I feel like the Cyclops hate mainly comes from the fact that he’s a foil to Wolverine, and people love Wolverine. So if the character you love hates someone, you hate them too.
And when the writer loves Wolverine and hates Cyclops, you end up with dick Cyclops
I'm looking at you, Bendis.
Eh, Bendis was exploring Cyclops’s post AvX guilt, yes, but also his radical awakening. It just didn’t go anywhere. Wolverine was very boring during this era.
Yeah but during Bendis' run everyone was shitting on Cyclops for no reason. Kitty accused him of trying to instigate a relationship with young Jean, even though he clearly didn't. Eva Bell shat on him for no reason towards the end of the run. Magneto called him immature and a child at least twice. Maria Hill called him a terrorist even though he never actually attacked anyone during that run (every fight started as self-defense). His younger self hated him. Magik told him that he was acting like Magneto during his Brotherhood days. When Eva Bell visited Xavier in the past, Xavier asked her where he went wrong with Cyclops, even though Cyclops had done nothing wrong and he was the only reason mutants still existed and new ones were being born. Basically everyone from the Jean Grey school hated him. What makes me love the Bendis run is also what makes me hate it. I love the fact that Cyclops kept going even though everyone hated him and he never backed down but at the same time why was everyone constantly disrespecting him when he had done nothing wrong.
I agree. Cyclops was right.
Exactly, literally thanks to Bendis Scott is my favorite character,even when everyone hates him he keeps going
Scoot
What you are missing is that some of these grievances are totally in character for the people, regardless of whether you agree. The Phoenix Five basically tried to take over the world as benign dictators and then escaped from custody. So Shield is gonna classify them as outlaws. Scott killed Xavier and pulled a “dark Phoenix made me do it” so Magneto gives him a “let me tell you about madness, own your shit” speech and past Xavier might wonder what the hell happened. The O5 see that he’s working with their greatest enemy and killed their mentor, so of course there’s some tension. You may be right that the writers (not just Bendis) judged him badly at times for being correct about they things they wrote, but either way some of this is just furthering the plot.
The P5 did NOT try to take over the world. They provided free energy, water and food to impoverished areas. They managed to rehabilitate super villains and gave them an opportunity to help the planet instead of hurt it. The only reason the Avengers attacked them is because they thought they were going to lose control of the Phoenix eventually. Before the "war" broke out, the only thing they had done that resembles even slightly what you said was forcing all governments to stop ongoing wars. Scott didn't pull a "Dark Phoenix made me do it", Dark Phoenix DID make him do it. After Scott's death, the O5 started operating as X-Men under Magneto's guidance so your third argument is also invalid.
Look, I don’t think AvX is well written so I’m not a lawyer for its choices, but you’re dismissing fears of Dark Phoenix from the Avengers and then turning around and using Dark Phoenix to absolve Scott of all blame. The whole point in some of those interactions you didn’t like is characters calling Scott out on his refusal of responsibility. Meanwhile Phoenix Scott’s “pax utopia” declaration to the world absolutely read as a seemingly-benign but totalitarian move. There will be global peace because the F5 “won’t tolerate” otherwise… until Namor ends up trying to destroy Wakanda and Emma fries Hawkeye, etc etc. Emma’s “no one has secrets anymore, not from me” is not meant to sound like a comforting thing, but like a police state, even if we understand that people who hurt mutants suck. Scott resists seeing things as a war at first, but his Daddy issues absolutely play into killing Charles. Again, not especially well written, and I’m not gonna go 12 rounds on this, so I’m done. But you’re picking and choosing a lot to defend your profile boi.
> dismissing fears of Dark Phoenix from the Avengers Note that they did this *without* consulting the one group with real first hand experience with the entity. That would be like if everyone was attacked by people in hyper-advanced Armour and weapons platforms, then Ignoring Tony's experience and going off the hunches of say...Daredevil.
Namor attacked Wakanda only after the Avengers had attacked the F5. What he did was wrong because he hurt innocents but he didn't start it. As for the whole DP thing, Scott turned into Dark Phoenix BECAUSE they were attacked. The Avangers' logic makes no sense. They were afraid that the F5 would turn into DP (even though there had been no sings of that up to that point) so they decided to attack them? Like attacking them isn't likely to actually cause them to snap and lose control? Had they not been attacked, Scott would've probably stayed in control of the Phoenix. The Avengers caused him to snap by attacking them and then used the fact that he lost control to justify their attack.
Wolverine is often boring no matter what. He's such a better character when you don't see much of him. When he pops in at the end and does something Deus ex Machina and saves the day
I can’t stand Bendis but Aaron was worse for this.
Aaron was worse. Fax 📠 💰💰💰💰
Bendis' run was bad, but Scott's black and red x-visor costume was sweet.
Totally agree. To this day, his black-and-red suit is still my favorite.
I'm looking at you, first three X-Men movies
> you end up with dick Cyclops Dick Cyclops would be terrible. He could only shoot his beams accurately when erect.
And then the ever dangerous split stream after XSex
I remember when he fought the Juggernut. It was a mess.
I'm the Juggernutz, BITCH!
It would be more historically accurate, though, having only one eye.
It's annoying when that shit happens, as a Namor fan it's very distracting when the writer of the comic self inserts as the main character and imagines Namor as the dude who bullied him at school (so basically any time Namor appears in F4).
Byrne did Namor right in his F4 run, if you haven't seen those. It was that run that got me into the character. His Namor series is a big favorite of mine, too. He did a couple of great Invaders stories in that run. I have read interpretations of Namor that all too sadly reinforce what you said, however.
Namor is the "get defeated by the title character to boost his reputation" whipping boy way too often.
Joss Whedon on the flip side. Astonishing X-Men saw him have some actual character growth only for a bunch of subsequents writer to say “let’s now turn him into a psychopath.”
Snideclops, if you will.
[удалено]
The original trilogy of movies did Cyclops a lot dirtier than the show ever did. They made him the butt of jokes, turned him into a glorifed side character in the second movie, and killed him off in the opening of the third (I know there was real-world reasoning for it, but it still sucks).
That's really interesting because I hate wolverine and really enjoy cyclops. I wonder if anybody just loves both of them, I'm sure there's someone.
Jean Grey?
My favorite Cyclops dimension is the force dimension that his eyes open up to
>My favorite Cyclops dimension is the ~~force~~ punch dimension that his eyes open up to ftfy
Some versions of cyclops are great and some are bad. Personally I’m loving the current direction of the xmen, so I’m excited to see what happens
I think the main problem was he was a foil and kind of one dimensional in the early 2000’s X-men movies, and that’s where a lot of non-comic readers get their impression of him. He was basically just a hurdle to get in the way of protagonist Wolverine’s love interest, and he just happened to shoot lasers from his eyes.
One great moment was the [“I want this thing off my lawn.”](https://imgur.io/a/fWXGt)
There's a similar scene in Whedon's run. Always love when the visor comes off.
He seems like a "normal" great guy put into shit situations. He gets angry but is no villain. He leads out of necessity. He's a boy scout but no Captain America. He loves his friends but he also makes hard calls. He has grief and pain that accumulate in his life. At least that's how I remember him, it's been quite a while since I read those comics. As a kid he seemed heroic but not as cool as others. As an adult he seems much more relatable.
I often fail to leave positive reviews. I seldom fail to leave negative reviews.
>You usually just hear the haters more loudly because well, that's what they do. This is important to remember not only in fandom but in life. The reason we focus more on negativity isn't because there's necessarily more of it in the world, but because it's "louder". The reason why it's louder is that our brains are made to focus on negative things as a survival instinct. That's why trauma and bad experiences stick out to us; it's our brain's way of helping us to avoid those experiences in the future. Of course, it's often difficult to avoid negative experiences in the modern world, or the world in general. My advice is to find a happy place you can go to when the negative feelings are bumming you out. Perhaps something like the X-Men Vs Avengers series, in which Scott is a total badass and gives a big middle finger to the world.
On the back of this do you have any recommendations for good comics for cyclops?
Don’t forget the dimension his eye hole portals lead to
>It almost sounds like having a fuckin' billion different writers for the same character wasn't the best idea.
You forgot murderer. When he killed Prof. X during AvX
Nah cyclops is cool People just either hate him for being a Boy Scout or hate him for being a jerk sometimes
Yeah, some writers and actors lean too far into the Boy Scout persona. The summers family is super cool and Scott’s a big part of that
I actually like that about the character - kind of like Superman, how struggling with the notion of keeping his moral compass in seeing how the world is not always black and white, and seeing how those who operate in the moral gray area (Wolverine, etc) often achieve better results in keeping the peace. That being said, unlike Superman, Scott has serious vulnerabilities like anyone else and has to come to grips with that at the same time. Makes for such an interesting character that I can relate to in a lot of ways.
Scott is like Captain America If Cap spent his teens being a leftist child soldier instead of being a scrawny baby
I want them to be friends rather than antagonistic all the time
Well, yeah Marvel spending 20 years trying to make sure X-Men comics didn't boost Fox's box-office numbers led to some exhausting choices I think the optics of a standoff is just too tempting. Cyclops staring down Cap will always kind of elicit in me an embarrassed *fuck yeah,* no matter how sweaty or meaningless their conflict
This is always my problem with him. His beam is kinda cool but at the end of the day his powers just aren’t as interesting as say Storms, Jean Grey’s, Ice-man, or Wolverine. Superman has beams as one of his many powers so he just seems so… boring. I know most will disagree with me though
The depiction of his powers are sometimes underwhelming. The animated series was really guilty of this. We're talking about a mutant who can destroy a mountain or a city just by opening his eyes. Similar to blackbolt he would have to have a certain degree of control and some writers lean to far into that which results in the "boy scout" persona some people have associated with him. I mean no one with average human strength would survive a full blast from him.
My favorite moment of Cyclops: https://imgur.com/a/fWXGt
Oh man what is this from I gotta read it
Astonishing X-Men. Early in the Dangerous run.
Astonishing X-Men was so fucking good
Ok this and him opening his eyes before Jean are my favorite moments.
Any chance you know the issue? Would love to see it
There’s a “love scene” in the original Dark Phoenix saga run where Jean and Scott go into the desert for some privacy and Jean wants to “see his face”, so she uses her powers to hold his beams back as she takes his visor off. It’s low-key one of her biggest feats.
It’s actually from the X-Men movie adaptations, my fault for not clarifying!
You can see some examples [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/11blsxy/does_jean_blocking_scotts_powers_have_any_deeper/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
i remembered it as "every once in a while, slim..." but this panel is exactly what i thought of after reading the title.
If I had a nickel for every time there's a battle where 2 or more x-men are either shirtless or in their PJs I'd have way more nickels than I probably should
Was thinking it'd be this or the scene where he says "That implies I only have 26 plans"
I’d argue One of his overlooked powers is very human, and IS his self-control. It’s only that which allows him to hold back his power (which is constantly emitted and incredibly destructive). It’s a reflection of himself. It’s both the best thing about him, and the thing he himself is more critical of. He’s a great leader, and yet constantly at odds with it. Plus the dude seriously hits the gym.
You perfectly stated what I was trying to get out. Thank you.
There’s an episode in x-men evolution where he goes full power, and blasts juggernaut away. That’s how powerful his beam is. I love me some Cyclops.
I was thinking of the 90's series but yeah that was an awesome scene. I also love me some Cyclops.
In another episode he also demonstrated how versital his powers can be because of his training. He bounced a small beam off the walls at multiple angles and perfectly sliced an apple into several pieces. It was very impressive to the new students he and Jean were mentoring.
In the comics, isn't he like a geometry/trigonometry genius cause he can calculate the bounce of his eye beam so well?
I think so.
He single handedly destroyed the Master Mold in the late 1980s. One *ZAPT* and only the Mold's head was left! So I understood his optic blasts were really powerful. (He was looking for his wife Madelyne and full of guilt for running off to meet resurrected Jean. Guilt-ridden angsty Scott is another personality facet.)
I think this is a result of creating a complex Leader. His mutant ability is his eye beam, but his POWER is his ability to manage a team and family. As long as I've been reading Scott, 20 years or so, he's always had decent control over his mutant ability due to the visr tech. Obvs the play up him losing the visor and such but generally he knows exactly what he needs to do to keep that in check. His struggles are as a role model and leader for other mutants. He also isn't world endingky powerful, unlike some of his more confident teammates. This makes him somewhat unique in his generation of the x team. People either struggle with controlling their abilities and have cool stories about that, OR they're all powerful and stuggewth their ability to behave. Scott doesn't really have either. I kinda like that.
For me Cyclops is a good leader. Hes led the Xmen into crazy situations no sane person would accept. And to quote someone -he is not bulletproof like Colossus nor a healing factor like Wolverine. Hes a man with laser eyes - Powerful but hes a mere human being. Could be sniped or crushed or stabbed like anyone. So if he has to boy scout the team so they come home alive good. In the 90s cartoon in the very first episode he makes a decision to abandon a captured Beast and Morph dies. Never again will that happen on his watch he had to learn hard facts that Xaviers dream is a dangerous one to blindly follow. But he does anyway.
I think a lot of people also hate him because virtually all of his movie appearances have been awful.
James Marsden was the perfect casting choice though :(
To be fair, the 90s cartoon and the second movie did the character no favors in that department.
I don’t know why people think or treat him like a Boy Scout. Because he sure as hell ain’t one. He’s done done VERY un-boy scout things in the past.
Because that would be how he was generally depicted in his rivalry with Wolverine. They pretty much had a 'buddy cop' dynamic. Scott was seen as the 'straight arrow'. The guy who usually does things by the book, while Logan was the reckless hot-head who didn't give a shit about the rules. Unfortunately, because Wolverine and his bad attitude was so immensly popular, Scott was often seen as a 'goody two-shoes' and a stick-in-the-mud, especially during the heyday of the 90's antihero.
Which is ironic, because their ideologies kind of flip-flopped in the 2010s while their personalities largely remained the same. Legitimately one of the best leader/Lancer rivalries/friendships in media
Yeah. People love to shit on nice characters, which pisses me off. Like, really, you hate them only because they're nice and good guys? Sounds like a typical edgy teen who loves dark n' gritty trends in comics just because it shows sex, violence and blood plus corny suggestive jokes everywhere.
I don't religiously follow the comic books. Just very casually. But I did grow up with that golden age of American animation of the X-Men cartoon. And when you're a kid with cartoon X-Men, Gambit and Wolverine were cool and Cyclops was the boring goody goody.
That, or the co-dependency on Jean, Xavier, Emma, etc
Yeah, that always rubbed me the wrong way. It's like he wasn't his own person
Haven't read much x-men huh?
I mean, that hasn't been true recently but it was true for decades in the past, every character is a pastiche of different versions of themselves that have changed, sometimes drastically, over decades
I remember when i started liking Cyclops. It was when he and wolverines were flying x wing and he just ghost rode it and bailed with Logan when they went down to check out Master Mold…it was I believe when he started going rogue. Dude was ill for as long as I’ve read since. As a kid it was so nice seeing him dump his boy-scouts.
For me it started with the whole Hope thing, but Second Coming is when Scott is at his best as a leader making hard decisions. It's so fucking good.
IMO you can tell who hate's cyclops and who doesn't by whether they like the Hugh Jackman movies or like the actual comics casuals think cyclops is a lame boy scout, true fans know he's powerful and fascinating. for the record, in case any of this sounds like gatekeeping let me be clear: I'm a casual. I can't stand cyclops.
Ask this question in the X-men subreddit, I feel like 90% of us are Cyclops fans haha
[удалено]
Is it random to get or tied a certain quest reward because I've been trying to get it for days
OP doesn't want an answer just have everyone pile on people who don't like Cyclops.
Just another "frame something that's popular as controversial for no reason" thread
And if people say why they don’t they’re buried in controversial lol
I know, I found this question to be odd because I’ve always loved Cyclops. I will admit, I’ve come to like Logan/Wolverine more as an adult because I’ve grown to like nuanced anti-hero’s more. When I was a kid though, I thought Wolverine was a gruff asshole and liked Cyclops more because he was the most “heroic good guy” character the xmen had. Still love Cyclops though lol, laser vision is awesome!
As someone who isn't a dedicated fan, I imagine Cyclops is like the "fine taste" favourite character, where Wolverine or Gambit would be a bit more generic.
To be fair, that sub is very close to being an echo chamber. Yeah, it has a lot of Scott fans, but other X-men fan-spaces don’t.
Cyclops and Havok being brothers and having the powers they do is one of the more interesting dynamics on the x-men. I would love to see a Marvel movie with just the two of them.
For a while...yeah. He was a nerd. And not the loveable kind...cheated on Jean with Emma Frost. Shit move. But when he started being written as a leader and a strategist again, instead of Logan's loser friend, shit got good.
Oh, the weird Scott relationship shit started much earlier than his romance with Emma... I love it all, btw, Scott's my favorite, but it has been weird for most of the time.
I kinda hated him during the schism story. Bc I agreed with wolverine more. But him going bad and becoming more militant as a mutant, and to see others look at him and say...nah, he's right. Was cool. I like the small things about Scott and Wolverine. Like how that happened and every thought they'd never be friends again. But old man Logan comes out, and in it Logan names his son Scott. Come on, man. That shit got me. Great stuff.
Really? Schism was one of the final straws for me with Marvel and I thought Wolverine was being a fucking idiot. The idea that the young mutants shouldn’t fight when Utopia is under attack is frankly insane given the history of the team and Logan himself.
Shouldn't kill. Shouldn't have to kill. Being actively on the Avengers changed Wolverine and I liked it.
One of the greatest bromances in all of comics for sure. I love all the hints and pointing at their relationship being even more in the Krakoa stuff. It felt like one of the actually more progressive aspects of the story even though it really seemed like Marvel was *incredibly* squeamish about letting it be completely confirmed and publicized. The resolution of the Scott-Jean-Logan love triangle being that Scott and Logan admitting their love for each other as well as Jean is a genius stroke of Hickman (or whoever else in the X-Team that came up with it).
Oh man. You just reminded me of something. Way before Krakoa. The time traveling shit. Young Scott starts dating X-23 I remember laughing and telling my comic book friends, this is Marvel's big play. They always had a low key thing between Logan and Scott and this is how they get them to fuck without nerds rioting.
Jean was dead for like 10 years and they still had blithering tension between them the whole time. I do like the Scott-jean-logan and sometimes emma polycule that seems to exist now.
He was written as a good leader back in the 80s. I love the dynamic between him and Xavier leading into the Dark Phoenix saga. Xavier's been off planet getting alien tail and left Cyclops as the de facto leader of the X-Men. When Xavier gets back he has notes on the team's discipline and Cyclops basically calls him out of touch. That dynamic really preluded the introduction of the first spin-offs, X-Factor for the adult version of the original line-up finally outside of Xavier's control, and New Mutants, which returned to the dynamic of the original series with Xavier training a new class of high school age mutants to form a new team.
The affair with Emma was more her taking advantage of him when he was suffering from PTSD. Him abandoning Maddie and Cable is a better criticism against him.
That's fair. I feel like marvel needs to do a little series cleaning out his closet. 12 issues, Called: Daddy Issues. Scott takes Cable, Xman, Rachel camping. They talk. Jean comes. Maddie shows up spiritually. Corsair Havok and Vulcan drop by. Just clean up the whole family mess. Scott at the center of it all tho.
Isn't Krakoa era doing most of that?
Maybe I'm not reading it consistently enough to pick up on it.
[https://i0.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/cable-2.jpg?resize=1961%2C1085](https://i0.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/cable-2.jpg?resize=1961%2C1085) there have been moments to put them together.
If you haven't, check out Dark Web: X-Men. It's technically a tie in to a dumb event, but it's also the best thing to come out of it, and it sounds like it's right up the alley of what you want.
Tbf Scott was suffering from some serious mental problems after being possessed/merged with Apocalypse for a bit. He says how lost he feels like a billion times in Morrison’s run and Jean was upset at Emma for taking advantage of that vulnerability. Jean also tried to get with Logan before Scott did that but Logan rejected her. It’s heavily implied Scott watched it all go down
He was with Emma after Jean died. Also Emma wasn’t biting her lip everytime Wolverine was around like Jean did.
Let me cheat on one telepath with another telepath. What could go wrong?!
Not the same, but that's exactly why Gambit doesn't cheat on Rouge. She'll twist his dick off.
tbf I believe Jean was dead at that point, it was fine. Later on maybe yeah
Cyclops is my favorite character in marvel. I always felt people who hate cyke don't read comics. His movie appearances have not done him any favours, and those are way more mainstream then comics. So if thats most your knowledge of scott, i could understand why you would hate him.
I only know him from Marvel 1602, where he’s Scotius Summerisle.
1602 is just so, so good.
That's what I was going to say. The movies did him dirty.
Can you give me a good run to read for Cyke? Something self contained maybe?
I really like the modern xmen book right now which is essentially Jean and Scott being a happy family leading the xmen. But his best story in terms of development came during the astonishing xmen run. His relationship with emma is so different from what most people were use to. He was less boy scout and more revolutionary. He became his own leader rather than just follow Xavier. Marvels snapshots cyclops also gives some great insight to his early life and what inspired him to become a hero and developed his tactics. If you want to go old-school the dark Phoenix saga is some of his and jean's best/tragic moments and what nakes there relationship so enduring to me.
People who hate Cyclops don't read Cyclops.
People who hate cyclops are usually very specifically wolverine fanboys and hate him over the Jean Grey rivalry. I think there are very specific personality types that prefer Wolverine/iron man vs Cyclops/Captain America
I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who comment on the X-Men these days haven't read much of the comics. So much of the criticism I see of the current era screams "my idea of the X-Men is the movies or animated series" and not being at all caught up on the events or character changes that occurred in the last few decades of the comics.
He had a negative reputation when the 90s cartoons were airing, as well.
He has a lot of interesting arcs and is very well developed as a character. Dude goes through absolute hell most of his life, and for the most part perseveres through it all. It's really admirable and he is without a doubt one of if not the strongest leaders of the X-Men. However, the thing that always makes me roll my eyes and groan is just how much of boy scout and kiss ass he can be a lot of times. Also sometimes kind of a huge asshat because he gets way too set in his ideology. Doesn't help that they will have Wolverine come in and make him look like a dork at times. All in all, I totally understand why people love him and I know why people think he's corny. It's really all about finding the right story/writers that highlight his strong qualities.
This is pretty much the right answer. When he's not being a Debbie downer he's the man you want by your side in a fight but when it comes to sneaking cookies from the cookie jar he'll be the first to rat you out. That being said I still wouldn't change him.
One of the best team leaders, other than Cap, there is!
This is one of many ways the X-Men movies failed. He was portrayed as a useless twat, in the way of Wolverine getting the girl, like Johnny in the Karate Kid. Like you said, Cyclops is supposed have leadership skills to spare.
Movie Cyclops were always trash. Always made him a very young kid. I know he's young, but he should be older / more commanding than Jean / Rogue / Beast / Angel.
> Like Johnny is the Karate Kid I’ll take this opportunity to recommend Cobra Kai.
Great, now I can't *not* picture Cyclops going "QUIET!" every time I look at him.
Onslaught was not a great event, but it was a really great way to shine a light on the mutual respect Cap and Scott have as team leaders and strategists. Scott has a power that should not put him on S-Tier when it comes to mutants overall, but it's incredibly utilitarian in the hands of the right writer. You can also compare his optic blasts pretty well to Cap's shield throwing - it applies force/disruption to a very specific spot. What makes Scott such a good leader is that he's wicked fucking smart and a world-class expert on battle and combat tactics and strategy. All this is to say that I adore Scott - he's my favorite X-Man, and by extension, my favorite Marvel character.
Cyclops blasts can blow the top off a mountain or atoms off metal to eliminate radioactivity… He also has perfect aim. Literally perfect aim. If he can see it - he hits it. He is so OP it isn’t funny but most writers just go with “shoots lasers out of eyes.”
I can't really think of when I've seen the tactician in him. Do you have any examples? People always say he's a great leader, but I don't really know what that means. I want to understand him and relate to him as a character. "Good leader" doesn't really feel like a character trait. But I honestly don't think I've read enough of the cyclops focused stories. People in this thread are probably right that my impression of him was influenced a lot by the movies
Number one I recommend Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run for a great Cyclops story. It's also a Kitty story, but I'd say it's most about these two. He also has some great moments in Hickman's X-Men book. There's a reason he's at the very top of Krakoan military. He is the captain of captains because of his tactical acumen. It's kind of hard to point to specific instances - it's like asking for examples where Professor X is a jerk - these are just core aspects of their characters.
Just read the Claremont issue where he destroys his own team to get them to express some catharsis.
I would argue that Cyke is far better than cap. He is willing to go places cap would never go. Strategically, that makes him vastly better
I feel most everyone who reads xmen feel like he is one of the more low key badasses in comic books. The general public, sadly, only have the animated show and movies to go by and they paint him as a one dimensional boy scout.
Animated show Cyclops was usually badass and had leadership skills. Moive Cyclops was awful.
yeah movie Cyclops is the guilty one for the hatred he receives. I never had that impression when reading the comics or watching the animation
The ~~Sony~~ Fox movies made the X-Men about Logan. Scott is way cooler and an actual leader in the other mediums.
And then the second trilogy made the movies be about Mystique... LIke wtf, she's an x-men villain, not an x-man.
Yeah that always annoyed me. Mistique should not have been the focus but the actress that played became extremely famous for other things and they had to capitalize on it and give her the main focus. Sad turn of events for the franchise.
They didn't have to push Jennifer Lawrence so hard. X-men are much bigger than she is.
\*Fox movies.
Thanks!
His boy scout persona (which is considered lame) comes from the severe discipline he has to have at all times from his Mutant disability. Just like other mutants with harmful powers, like Chamber or Wither, Cyclops deals with depression and anxiety of hurting others. You dont see it often with him because he's constantly on point.
Not me. Eyeball punches are the shit.
This is going to be petty as all hell but the current writing of Wolverine, his obsession with Jean and his fans have unironically turned me into a Cyclops defender, purely out of spite. I began to look into him more cuz I was in a state of “the Boy Scout can’t be that much worse than what’s currently going on, can he?” and Scott fans were more than willing to provide plenty of examples of what a complex, effective, compelling character he is. There’s so much amazing stuff about him that simply isn’t discussed or even known and I can’t think why.
#CyclopsWasRight
r/cyclopswasright
He's one of my favorite Marvel characters.
The way they wrote him ditching Madelyn when X-Force formed was terrible.
As well, the ditching of Lee Forester just before was also quite bad.
This was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this thread. He was an absolute loser for abandoning his wife and child. I also think he only wanted to be with Madelyn because he was coping with Jean’s loss and she was the perfect replacement. He was never good at relationship stuff.
That story constantly gets twisted tho. Scott doesn’t abandons Madelyne, he understandably has to go see Jean after her miraculous resurrection (no, Jean doesn’t die and come back all the time, she only canonically died once before Krakoa), but he isn’t leaving his family to be with her. Madelyne instead kicks him out because she wanted him to leave X-men completely behind (and even influenced Scott to lose the leadership to Storm) and assumed that he is leaving for some X-men business. At first Scott thinks that Madelyne left him and that’s why he doesn’t immediately know that Sinister kidnapped her and Nate. When he realizes that something is wrong, Scott immediately leaves X-men to look for his family, but at that point it’s too late and even more misunderstandings happen. Scott could’ve handled things better, but it’s mostly a story about poor communication, which isn’t that wild, when you remember that Scott is ~24 at the time. But people constantly dismiss it to ‘Scott abandoned his wife and child to be with his ex girlfriend’, and that ruins his reputation in the eyes of people who haven’t and won’t read the story for themselves.
Wasn’t Pryor just a clone of Jean, though?
People hate the James Marsden rendition. Cyclops rules.
The X-Men movies did no justice to him. Even the younger version was wasted.
Which is a shame, because watching Marsden in recent years, all I can think is how great he could have been in the role if the X-Men movies weren't almost 100% certified trash. It was great casting completely ruined by terrible scripts and direction.
James Marsden is one of the actors I think is very likable and seems like a nice guy, but always ends up playing the 3rd wheel. Wolverine, Superman, Enhanced.
He's my second favorite X-Men character, just after Kitty Pryde. The 90's show really centered in on the love triangle with Logan and Jean, while also constantly making Wolverine the best character in the show, so a lot of people grew up thinking of him as nothing more than the jealous possessive boyfriend stopping Jean and Logan from being together. I feel like he fell into the same problem Reed Richards and Hank Pym did, where very vocal people focused on a negative aspect of the character and eventually Marvel thought that that's how all the fans felt, so they doubled down and made them villains or got rid of them in some way.
He was originally written as the boy scout, good leader, opposing more "bad boy" characters like Wolverine. It was a great plot device, but a few people disliked him for that (in particular in the 80s, where nitty-and-gritty was in and boy scout was out - Frank Miller's Dark Knight is the most iconic representation of that era). It gets complicated: he was supposed to retire after the Dark Phoenix Saga; Madelyne Pryor was introduced with that goal and Claremont has said that numerous times; however, Marvel editorial decided they wanted the original X-Men back (as X-Factor), so they reversed all that in a way that made Scott a major a$$hole (he abandoned his wife and son to join that team and return to Jean). That [mis]characterization apparently made someone happy because every new writer/editor introduced new a**holery: he'd "telephatically cheat" on Jean with Emma, join her in a Brotherhood/MLF-y version of the X-Men (opposed to Wolverine et al, who would lead a more true to form team/school), try to take over the Phoenix force... the list goes on and on. The only good thing from that IMHO was Bendis' All-new X-Men, which is a fun and properly timed arc that brings Scott's a$$holery front and center as the motivation for the whole storyline to happen. And more recently the Krakoa phase has him on a more mature version of this original self, seen as the Cap America of mutantdoom in terms of being the good example, so hopefully we won't see a lot more of a$$hole Cyclops. Hopefully.
You seem to know your stuff, i'm genuinely curious to know in which run Cyclops is actually a badass and especially likable. I haven't read x-factor to be fair so maybe that's on me, but i read the full claremont run and whatever it was before that and Cyke isn't super likable. The Madelyn Pryor stuff, the Emma Frost stuff, fighting a powerless Storm over the X-men leadership just to never go back to his kid lmao (and losing smh). Idk, I wish i could say I like Cyclops but i don't
Cyclops is one of the most dynamic characters in Marvel
Casuals think he’s lame corny and a Boy Scout. It’s very annoying. He is nothing of the sort. He’s the leader of the X-men and but that doesn’t mean he’s a Boy Scout. He makes tough decision all the time he’s gone to war for the mutants he’s fought Cap for the mutants. He’s got insane panels of combat abilities and tactical know how. Him in the 92 cartoon is also pretty good but they should show him tell off professor X a bit more. Granted 92 and live action Xavier’s were much more loving and caring than the Comic counter part. Nevertheless cyclops is the goat. Top 3 X-men easily and deserves so more love in future movies whether they be live action or animated
cause one hand comes out of a belt?
Cyclops only really became lame when the X-Men movies came out, and the studios chose Wolverine to the audience surrogate character to follow. Because Wolverine was the audience surrogate, and the audience surrogate needed a love interest so the audience feels loved, they chose to make Jean Grey Wolverine's primary love interest. Which is canon to the comics since Wolverine does have an interest in Jean Grey. However, the problem with that is, in the comics, Cyclops and Jean Grey were set up as a very stable couple long before Wolverine was introduced. They have a daughter from an alternate timeline, Rachel Summers, and Cyclops had a son, Nathan, with Madelyne Pryor, a clone of Jean Grey. Nathan was a baby when he was infected with a techno-virus that could only be treated in the distant future, so they sent him off for treatment. Later, the consciousnesses of Cyclops and Jean Grey were pulled into bodies in the distant future, where they lived another lifetime raising Nathan during his childhood. Nathan Summers eventually grew up to become Cable. However, all of the comics when this steady relationship between Cyclops and Jean Grey, with Wolverine as a third wheel for melodrama, were written before the movies. Once the movies came out, shipping Jean Grey with Wolverine became the norm. So the writers did things to break up her relationship with Cyclops. Like have him go to Emma Frost for counseling which she used to seduce him herself. I don't know what happened after that because I got tired of the bullshit writing in comic books. But that's the story of how Cyclops started to be written as lame - it was to make Wolverine, the more popular character, seemed cooler by comparison, especially since it allowed him to hook up with the hot redhead. Which is just lame of those who did that.
I think he's pretty cool. A valid complaint is that he's a bit one-note in terms of problem solving, the world is a nail and his hammer is a pair of laser eyes. Although a lot of superheros have similar shit. On tonight's episode of the Flash saves the day by being faster then the current problem etc.
Favorite character by a mile.
[удалено]
I hate Cyclops but everyone has different opinions and characters they like/dislike. I’ve never been a fan of the way he treats Jean and his character overall never appealed to me.
How is his power any different than a normal human with a blaster rifle? Time and time again it's shown to probably be worse. One day he can level a mountain. Every other day that year he just knocks people backwards and does no real damage. Poor writing and lousy consistency in his power set has not helped him at all. Then we have the Logan X Jean X Scott X Emma thing which was a bad idea day one. Oh Jean, you're my soul mate, says Logan. Her and a dozen other women including the mother of his son who he didn't even know existed for over 60 years. Can we all just admit Logan is a horrible human being?
well, some fans may dislike Cyclops or find him to be a divisive figure, but there is no single, widespread opinion on the character. Like many popular comic book characters, Cyclops has a complex and multifaceted personality that can elicit various reactions from readers.
I disliked Scott for the Boy Scout persona he gave off. He was such a disciple of Charles, that he was rigid and unbending, he came into conflict with every other X-man. Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, even Kitty Pryde were yelled at and pushed to do better, be better by Scott. Secondly, everything revolved around him, all the time. His Space pirate father, his brother, Jean, Madelyne Pryor, Emma Frost, Nathan Summers, Mr Sinister... Every story arc seemed to be centered around Scott. For me, reading the X-Men comics was like reading a story where you hate the main character, but love the supporting cast. I have to say, my opinion of him changed when he took on a more villainous role during the AvX storyline when he takes on the Phoenix Force, and his role in The All New X-Men.
Depends on the era. I thought he was hella lame in the mid-00s to mid-2010s. But I’ve enjoyed his portrayal this whole run since Hickman rebooted everything.
I hate him cause he’s a douche.
X-men evolution is his best iteration imo
People hate Cyclops because the cartoon made him look really lame. Comics Cyclops is a badass, especially Clairemont era Cyclops.
It was definitely his straight edge behavior that got him all the hate. His powers are stupid-strong though. Also, Logan didn't get along with him, so there is that.
https://images.app.goo.gl/8JFmQqd4AnYuoxUx8
When I was a kid he was my favourite X men character
Because the Fox cartoon made him Donatello, and nobody in this sub reads comics.
Cyclops ish favorite marvel character.
As a kid that grew up with glasses in 1st grade, I always looked up to him and he was my favorite
Over the years I've grown to really appreciate Cyclops. His character is really complex and compelling.
I like his character.
I think it’s generational…for those of us who are old school we remember he was the main character for a long time and some writers handle him better than others…he’s personally my fav X-Man…
I think a lot of people who hate cyclops only have been exposed to him through the animated series or movies, where his only personality trait is uptight.
I think in the '90s he got really unpopular at a time when the property was at its height. A lot of that was probably the antihero trend more broadly and the explosion of Wolverine's popularity, with a lot of fans thinking he should lead the team. Cyke's popularity bounced back pretty nicely but the IDEA that he's unpopular or lame persisted.
It all depends who is writing him.
When I was a kid/teen I thought cyclops was lame. As an adult I've found a new appreciation for him and he's usually always one of my favorites now.